Barbell Shrugged - #IAMNOBULL: The Story of No Bull and Going Behind the Horns w Co-Founder Marcus Wilson - Barbell Shrugged— Barbell Shrugged #438

Episode Date: February 5, 2020

NOBULL is a footwear, apparel and accessory brand for people who train hard and don't believe in excuses. If you think gimmicks in your shoes make you a better athlete, NOBULL is not for you. NOBULL products perform with you when and where you need them. That's it.   In this episode of Barbell Shrugged, Anders, Doug, and Travis discuss:   Early learning working for Reebok during CrossFit boom.   Why Marcus left Reebok to open an agency   Why No Bull exploded and the urgency to go all in   Bringing on partners and the deep connection to the CrossFit community   How No Bull chooses athletes and the relationships they form   Expanding into new markets and future growth potential   https://www.nobullproject.com   And more…   Anders Varner on Instagram   Doug Larson on Instagram   Marcus Wilson on Instagram   TRAINING PROGRAMS   One Ton Challenge   One Ton Strong - 8 Weeks to PR your snatch, clean, jerk, squat, deadlift, and bench press   20 REP BACK SQUAT PROGRAM - Giant Legs and a Barrell Core   8 Week Snatch Cycle - 8 Weeks to PR you Snatch   Aerobic Monster - 12 week conditioning, long metcons, and pacing strategy   Please Support Our Sponsors   “Save $20 on High Quality Sleep Aid at Momentous livemomentous.com/shrugged us code “SHRUGGED20” at checkout.   US Air Force Special Operations - http://airforce.com/specialops   Organifi - Save 20% using code: “Shrugged” at organifi.com/shrugged ------------------------------------------------------------------ Show notes at: http://www.shruggedcollective.com/bbs-ep438 ------------------------------------------------------------------   ► Subscribe to Barbell Shrugged's Channel Here ► Subscribe to Shrugged Collective's Channel Here http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Shrugged Collective is a network of fitness, health and performance shows that help people achieve their physical and mental health goals.  Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first Barbell Shrugged podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast. Find Shrugged Collective and their flagship show Barbell Shrugged here: SUBSCRIBE ON ITUNES ► http://bit.ly/ShruggedCollectiveiTunes WEBSITE ► https://www.ShruggedCollective.com INSTAGRAM ► https://instagram.com/shruggedcollective FACEBOOK ► https://facebook.com/barbellshruggedpodcast TWITTER ► http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged

Six lifts, snatch, clean, jerk, squat, deadlift, and bench with the lifetime goal of hitting 2,000 pounds and 1,200 for you ladies. My good friend Ryan Smith is back in the United States. We started coaching him on the One Ton Challenge program seven months ago when he deployed to the UAE as part of the United States Air Force. Well, guess what? He's home. And the very first thing he did was hop in his truck, which I'm sure he missed dearly not having a car overseas.

He got in his truck. He rolled into my house. We trained in my brand new PRX Performance home gym. Snatch, some RDLs. We did some kettlebell swings. Guess what? We did a whole bunch of hanging out and having fun. Without the one-ton challenge, would have never had this opportunity to meet him, coach him, get to know him, and really just be proud of the dude that he has become. When he

left, he was a lot smaller. I know that. Kid's gotten yoked. But also the amount of confidence, just seeing the transformation that has happened in his life since he's deployed and come back. I'd like to say it's all because of the One Ton Challenge program, but just seeing the transformation in his life, the confidence that he is carrying with him now. It's the reason that we all do strength conditioning. For the most part. We're all average human beings. Trying to get better at something. And there's something about weight lifting.

That is a catalyst for change. A catalyst for growth. A catalyst for confidence. There's a catalyst. There's a reason that we all show up to the gym every day. And add five pounds to the bar. And I'm so freaking proud to be his coach, his friend, and I'm so amped that he got to come to my house.

We got to train together because I get to meet so few of our actual athletes in person and just a phenomenal human being. Welcome home. Thank you for being a part of the Air Force, serving our country. I can't believe that I was part of your first, one of your first destinations when you landed back on U.S. soil. And I can't just, I just am so excited

that I got to meet you in person, train with you and see all the hard work that we put in. If you want to be a part of this amazing family that we're creating, the One Ton Challenge, get over to onetonchallenge.com forward slash join. We're going to walk you through the best strength and conditioning program that I've ever seen. But most importantly, we're building confidence. We're giving people that extra push in life, the ability to see themselves grow on a daily basis.

And it's all aimed in this amazing direction and personal growth. Um, and it all starts with just adding five more pounds to the bar and believing in yourself that you can do it. Um, and the fact that I get to coach and be a part of people's lives is just incredible. So thank you so much, Ryan, for showing up, working hard, slaying it's a barbells, but get over to one ton challenge.com forward slash join and come be a part of this amazing movement that we have going on today's show marcus wilson from noble um there's very few people that i am i can i can honestly say that i'm slightly nervous when i meet them but marcus is an incredibly impressive person.

From his career at Reebok, starting Noble, a lot of the entrepreneurial work he's doing that we discuss at MIT, his history at IdeaPaint and being one of the big marketing brains behind that amazing company as well. It's no doubt that Noble and the story of Noble is just a very incredible story to see somebody walk into the shoe industry, which is not a cheap and easy industry to break into.

You can see me get a little bit nervous because I forget his name as soon as I turn the mics on, which very rarely happens. But Marcus, thank you for the open interview. Thank you for letting us tour Noble and Boston with you. Thank you for the time, the energy, some beautiful shoes, and I hope you guys enjoy the show. The press box last night at Fenway, they had all the same gear that we use.

That's awesome. We're like, oh, we're doing it. We're so legit. Yeah. We were last night down at Foxborough in Gillette because the Carolina Panthers played the Pats and we just signed Will Greer, who's a backup quarterback. Oh, yeah. Dope. That was really, we could certainly talk about that.

That's a pretty cool experience. Sure. Let's talk about it right now. Welcome to Barbell Struck. I'm Anders Varner, Doug Larsonarson yeah what what is your official title here i am officially a co-founder of noble with uh michael schaefer my business partner we can michael and i go way back happy to talk about all that um marcus this is terrible i have forgotten your last name over here um

doug asked me in the car and i was like it's marcus it's only one time though he did it twice with jessica griffith there we go two times on two separate occasions i'm i'm in a good company yeah we started the conversation and then i just had a total meltdown um yeah will greer talk about it how do you guys get connected in the nfl You're a functional fitness brand. Yeah, right. We signed an NFL quarterback, and we don't make a cleat, which is a pretty cool situation. Yeah, that's weird. So Will is absolutely amazing. Last night we were down in Foxborough for a preseason game with the Pats

and the Panthers. Will Greer is a quarterback for the Panthers. And an all-around amazing, amazing guy. And we signed him, think in may it came up pretty you know pretty quick it came up really really quick and he uh reached out to us and really liked what we stood for and felt aligned with kind of the noble mentality and his you know uh manager agent you know dan Dan and Rachel reached out, and it moved really, really quickly. Todd, who heads up marketing on our team,

has developed a great relationship with all of them, and it just felt right. One of the things that Michael and I really do with the business is kind of lead with kind of gut feel. Does this feel right? Does this not feel right? And tend to follow that quite a bit. It was a lot sooner than we had not thought about signing an NFL athlete

until we had cleats. There are a number of NFL athletes who wear Noble to train in. But it was one of those things that felt really in you know, in line with what we were doing. Will works hard every single day. He puts in the work. He doesn't make excuses. And he, you know, he's really connected with our other athletes in really cool ways that we didn't even plan. You know, I'm finding out on Instagram, I'm seeing Will, you know, training with Sam Dancer in California before the games.

And I had to evict this. I sent Todd a text. I was like, hey, did you connect them? He's like, no, they did it on their own. And there's a shoot that we did with Will and Jared Stevens. And so then they became friends. I saw that, actually. I just saw that on Instagram on the way here.

I didn't know we were going to be interviewing. Yeah, yeah. And then Jared connected Will with Sam. Jared and Sam are great friends. And then maybe a month ago, Katrin posts an Instagram story with Will. And again, I'm like, where did that come from? And it was a total random meeting.

They both happened to be in Chicago and happened to run into each other on the street and will was like you catch him from noble and yeah and it's 2019 when nfl players think crossfitters are cool like an autograph yeah we have officially arrived yeah i don't know if it's at the autograph stage but it's one of those things there is certainly a mutual respect there yeah which is amazing and uh you know will trains incredibly hard katrin sam jared all you know obviously train uh very hard and there's definitely a mutual respect there but from my perspective when i think about what we're trying to build here at noble it's it

it i mean i guess i get goosebumps thinking about kind of the friendships that are developing, not only within kind of the sponsored athletes, but with the team. And Will is just a good human being. And it was, you know, talking with him last night before the game. It's just, it was, he's really cool. Really, really cool. And I'm super proud that he's a part of this. You guys are signing really high-level athletes. And you came into this space with there's monsters in apparel already.

And then coming into the CrossFit space where Reebok and Nike's in there, Under Armour's showing up. How did this – I mean, you've mentioned a couple times culturally people aligning with what you guys are working on, but how do you start Noble? Why would you go into this shoe route? It seems very difficult. culturally people aligning with what you guys are working on but how do you start noble why would you go into this shoe route it's yeah very difficult it's a it's a it's a question we've been getting a lot more lately i think one of the first times uh when i was on uh chasing excellence

with ben and patrick they were laughing about like the world does not need another shoe company it's like another cola company right yeah and um when you look at it from a macro level you know nike is a you know you know tens of billion dollar brand uh under armor all these are billion dollar brands and breaking into the overall market is a challenging task to say the least but when you start to break it down to a micro level when we entered the crossfit market in uh january of 2015 nike uh launched the metcon right as we were launching which was an awesome thing from our perspective because it just brought you more awareness but while we were working on noble there were only two you know and we we think of

ourselves as a footwear brand and an apparel brand. So the footwear side of it is probably the point of differentiation because there are a lot of apparel brands out there. But from a footwear perspective, you know, when we were working on this, it was just Reebok and Innovate. Yeah. And so you should think. I haven't really heard much about them lately. Right? Yeah.

I didn't want to say that, but you did. No. No Bulls showed up. They were the first. No Bulls showed up, and Avain had to go. I don't know about that, but they were... We beat up the CEO. They were the first ones, right? And then Reebok came in and sponsored the games and all those things. But if you think about the thought process, my CrossFit journey was I first learned about CrossFit.

I just happened to live near CF&E and went into CrossFit New England. That Ben guy. Yeah, Ben. He got you. Sucked you in. He seems motivated. Yeah, just a little bit. There's always these fit people around him.

Yeah, yeah. And Ben is a great friend and has been in my CrossFit journey very, very helpful and influential. And we get together quite a bit and talk about just a variety of things. But when I first walked into CrossFit New England, I didn't really know what it was. And I walked in on running shoes. And as I kind of got into it, and CrossFit New England is certainly a special place. I just thought every place was like that. But it is truly truly unique but as I started to get but as I started to get into it then that

was like okay I need you know I need shoes for this sport if you will and at that you know the time there weren't a lot of choices Michael and I got into CrossFit right around the same time. So he was the creative director, global creative director at Reebok. And he got into CrossFit and learned about it at Reebok. And I got into it, you know, I had left Reebok to help someone start a venture capital firm and then went into a portfolio company, IdeaPaint, which is the, you know, what we've been. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

You can write on. So that's why it's all over've been... Using his own stuff. Using his own stuff everywhere. I didn't breathe it. You pointed it out earlier. I didn't know that he invented it. Didn't invent it, but I was a part of the process. What do you think of the paint? It's pretty nice.

I'm glad I nodded my head the right direction. I think that product sucks. It's a damn. An interesting quick aside on that was I was on the investment side and on the board of idea paint the early days and stepped in as a cmo to set up uh marketing and that was my first real okay this is what it's like to set up a brand for a startup and the challenges around marketing within a startup. So I learned a lot in that process.

But shifting back to the early CrossFit New England days and you get into a new sport, Michael was going through learning about it at Reebok. I was learning about it kind of through those things. And one thing that when I was on Ben's podcast, we realized literally on the podcast, was Ben was coaching Michael at Reebok and me at New England. So anyway, Michael and I had been talking about starting something for

quite some time. And, uh, back in, uh, we would get together, you know, on a monthly basis, have breakfast and talk about how great it would be to start something. And I think a lot of people do that type of thing. And then finally we decided if we didn't try, we were going to regret it. And one day we just kind of cleared the schedule and we put together a business plan. And then we're like, all right, let's go after it. And that's kind of how we started. And what we ended up doing is Michael had an idea for a cold water surfing brand. And he was a cold water surfer I'd never done in my life.

And I had this idea for an early stage agency helping startups grow. And we kind of combined those things. And we launched an agency with the idea of launching our own brands out of it. And Noble was the second brand that we launched. And as we got started preparing for Noble, that's when we talked to Ben and brought Ben on as a partner in the business. And it just took off. It's one of those things. I'm knocking profusely on wood at the moment. It just seemed to connect.

And then we shut everything else down. Black Friday 2015 was a monumental moment in Noble's journey. And in my life, it was really phenomenal. And after that, it was on the agency side. We stopped working with clients, shut down the agency. Surf brand was a grind. And so we shut that down. And as a surf brand, everything happens for a reason.

And so Todd on our team, who heads up marketing, had originally reached out to us because he was running a surf brand. And he came to us about selling that brand to us. And we said, we're not interested in the brand, but we're really interested in you. You want to come join us? So he joined us to run our surf brand and then transitioned to you know noble we were actually just talking about this last night where uh he said you know what is you know what is this training brand going to be and and can i be a part of it and so then we just went after it and you know have been having a blast ever since but with it it wasn't about you know competing

with these big brands it was like let's create something that we're proud of something that we want to use and something that stands for kind of you know how we approach the world what we believe in and one of the things that bothered michael and i just having been in the industry is you know big brands telling you you know where our shoes and you're going to run faster, jump higher, be stronger. And there's certainly, to some of this technology, there's truth to at the elite levels of all that. But the vast majority of the cases, it's on you. If you train hard and you put in the work, you will get better, you will get fitter, you will get stronger.

And don't rely on the products. And so that's really where the noble name came from. And in the early days, it was, you know, we don't have anything against bulls, we just can't send the shit part, which also kind of represents, you know, Michael's sense of humor, my sense of humor, and not taking ourselves too seriously. And that kind of ethos around no excuses and putting in the work has connected you know in a really powerful way within the the across the community but also within the broader you know fitness uh community and and people who are training hard you know whether they're in the

nfl nba you know crossfit major league baseball or you know firefighters you know yeah uh first responders people in the military it's been this really really cool uh experience that was awesome yeah you guys mentioned or you mentioned that uh you launched at the same time nike came out with the metcon and you saw that as an opportunity for sure i would say most people would say oh no there's another big player in the game and have come at it with this like scarcity mindset. But was there something in your past from having Idea Paint that it was like, oh, no, this is great for us. There's another player that's going to kind of draw attention away from Reebok or like where does that mindset come from? You know, it's one thing i always try to look on the

bright side of everything and so it may be you know and michael and i are kind of you know eternal optimists and so it may have just been we were already so far into it we were like this has to be good let's figure out a way that it is good but i think the reality is is that nike's everywhere right you know on the uh at the the panthers and pats game last night you know i look at shoes all the time it was it was like you know 95 of the players were wearing uh nikes you know and then there were a few pairs of uh under armor and a few pairs of adidas but it was like nike was everywhere yeah and um you know with that you know nike's marketing budget's a little bit bigger than ours so yes well how do you break through that?

Yeah. I mean, you have an experience as CMO in a venture. Yeah. So it's certainly not dollar against dollar. Right. And so it is it starts with having a real and unique point of view. You know, what is it you believe and what is it you want to say and that's something where you know both Michael and I really focus on you know what's core to noble and it starts with the name quite frankly and

the name has become a filter you know you can't have a brand called noble and just you know have all sorts of kind of bs surrounding the product and marketing all that stuff it's just like hypocritical is Is that your idea? What's that? The name. Michael actually came up with a name. It was one of those things where we had a bunch of different names that I will not share, all sorts of playful things.

We went through round and round and round, and none of it felt right. It was one of those things where it all felt like bullshit. And I think that was kind of the thing that tweaked something in him. And it was pretty, the moment he said it, I was like, yes. That one. That makes a lot of sense. And again, it just felt right. Yeah, it feels right in the CrossFit space, too. To be able to put that shoe on, like the shirt.

It's so obvious. It just fits the people. Yeah, and it's one of those things where it's been this really phenomenal thing that's been happening with the brand and the T-shirts. I mean, you wear a Noble T-shirt, and there's someone else in a Noble T-shirt, and it's kind of a little bit of a... I go to a regular CrossFit gym, gym like normal people and i pay attention to these

things because i like to go out and talk to people and figure out what's cool and like what's moving and three four years ago everyone had the brand new rebox and then the metcon came out and everyone i think it's like 80 of my gym is wearing no balls and i love your gym one yeah for sure well as soon as i we connected to set this show up i started like really looking at what everyone in the gym and i was like wow like reebok is on the way out of maybe not out but um you guys have come in and made a massive impact in the space well you know what one thing is is um you know michael and I worked at Reebok. We've got a lot of great friends at Reebok and think nothing but the world of them.

Reebok's still probably doing okay. As a business, they're doing okay. We're still not even a blip on the radar, I think, in some of these things. And Nike, we've got all the brands. We've got friends there. But the interesting thing is that we don't, you know, when we're making our plans and when we're focused on what we want to do someone asks you know asked us a few months ago you know what do you think about you know the other other brands when you're planning these things and the odd thing was we realize that we

don't yeah we focus you know on noble and what the what we want to say and you know the feelings we want to uh kind of you know put out into the world yeah and that's that's really it and we have nothing but you know positive thoughts and energy uh around all these other brands and even at the games this past year you know catching up with uh uh friends of ours at reebok who are great great people and uh you know and it was good you know I actually remember the very first time that I that I heard the name Noble and I was I was walking around a regionals you know a couple years ago and I saw your booth and I turned to somebody I was like I was like who are those guys like someone started a shoe company right now kind of thinking the same thing like Nike and Reebok are already here like yeah like dang that's like

that's balls like I looked at my friend I was like well they got they have to have some differentiating factor like what what makes them special that they think that they're going to be able to jump into this market and if they're just making the same shoe everyone else is making it's not going to work they have to have some something special about them and i and they said i think they're like the the toughest shoes like they're not going to their shoes aren't going to break or something along those lines but was that ever a thing or is that just something my friend made up? Yeah. So I like it. Is he hireable? Can we bring him in? So it's one of those things where, you know, kind of with using the kind of the noble kind of filter is, you know, what do you

need from a functional perspective for in a training shoe, especially within CrossFit? So you need stability for Olympic lifting and the fast movements. You need durability, rope climbs, all these things. And so one of the materials that we had identified is a material called Super Fabric. And it's a military-grade material that is snake-bike snake bike snake bite resistant cut resistant all these things that's what you need in a pair of shoes but you know you don't have a lot of snakes in my gym which is good but it sounds like bullshit right i mean but when you think about the durability that that requires then when it comes to rope climbs and other things there are going to be very very

durable uh products and so that's where that came from and so that was you know yeah so uh you know our main trainer is a super fabric trainer uh and it is highly highly durable and one thing that's like the dotted yeah design yeah those are super guard plates yeah guard plates guard plates um so you know don't try it at home but there was like in the early days there was somebody uh uh on youtube he was just like yeah do not do not i just don't know where you're going actually i'll just stop because i saw i was like no no no hey it works but um yeah so anyway it was it was show me after the show yeah we'll do it afterwards um yeah but that was it was you know again nothing on the products that you don't

need and durability is something that you need. It became a real good story. So the guy that you're partnering with from Reebok, what was his name again? Michael. Michael Schaefer. So he had preexisting experience designing footwear? So it is one of those things that, yes, he had enormous experience designing footwear. So Michael was the global creative director at Reebok, so he was responsible for footwear and apparel design. He's been a footwear designer pretty much his whole career.

He is hands down the most creative person I've ever worked with. And I am very lucky and fortunate to have him as a business partner. Because he just knows all things footwear inside and out. And so he was the reason we were able to get to market so quickly because he's just this is what he's lived and breathed and he also just sees the world differently um you know michael and i could you know take the same photo literally the exact same thing and you know nine times out of you know 99 times out of 100 you're like oh that's a lot better photo i I don't understand it, but I've learned to embrace it. And, and it's, and it's awesome. Was that a bit of a steep learning curve and just understanding textiles

and yeah, you know, it's really like whatever, I don't even know what, anything that goes into the rubber for souls. Yeah. So it's a funny story on that. So Michael, you know, that's kind of Michael's background. It was not mine. And in 2014, Michael and I went to Asia and we went to a material mart. And that was the most eye-opening thing I've ever seen. It was just like picture buildings that, you know, are the size of football fields.

And there was like nine of them with, you know, seven or eight stories in each one of them. And there was like nine of them with you know seven or eight stories in each one of them and then in each one of those stalls that were like 10 by 10 just so i'm talking thousands of it was like the scene from matrix when you look at those infinite hallways and just and i just got so overwhelmed i was like i cannot wrap my head around all these different materials exist and he was you know in the end he's like look i just want this and was describing exactly what it was and then people would go find it but it was a it was an eye-opening experience for me that's insane i wouldn't it would be so overwhelmed i wouldn't be i don't know well that's the whole process to go from zero to

yeah a shoe yeah what is that process i mean and you're doing it in the functional fitness space, so it's not just like, oh, this looks cool. Needs the work. It could look really cool. I have shoes on right now that look really cool, but they're not very functional. We'll get you some other ones. Good thing we're not on video here.

But, yeah, they have to work for CrossFitters, and that's a group of people that have high expectations of performance in shoes. Yeah, and a perfect example of that is Sam Dancer. So when we first met Sam, it was at the ECC, the East Coast Championship, which was Ben's event. Man, you are super old school CrossFitter. There we go. Yeah, seriously. You just alienated our whole audience to about four people.

They're like, I remember that. But at that event, we met Sam. And we took a really long time to get to know Sam. And Sam took a really long time to get to know us. And we just gave him some product and said, break it. And Sam's like the Hulk. I mean, it was just like smash. And he gave us incredible feedback.

And it wasn't even final product we gave him it was some of the early prototypes and um you know he broke some of them and it was like it and it and it was his feedback was awesome he's like hey look guys this is this is you know here's what i'm seeing here's what i'm thinking here's what i'm feeling and uh sam is also just an absolutely amazing human being human being and it helped us take things to a better place. And he's got, you know, he always coming with product ideas and all sorts of fun things too. The first pair of Nobles I ever had, I'm sure you know which ones are they. They were similar to these ones where it wasn't the.

I like your shoes. I love these shoes. I'm terrible walking in in these today. One is going to think I'm not athletic. I'm all wearing these. I got to walking in on these today. No worries. One is going to think I'm not athletic. I'm all wearing these. I got to look now. Oh, there we go. I don't know.

I'm not even going to say the name of them because I like them. They're bright. You can't see this on video, but this is more of like a, and you can describe it on a can, of course, more of just like a canvas shoe rather than the dotted design. The super fabric. Yeah, the super fabric that you guys are kind of known for and uh i had a similar pair that was a thinner material and had that orange back on it you know i'm talking about yeah those were the original canvas trainers

yeah so i'd love i loved those i'd never like posted videos of me training and had anyone ever be like yo what shoes are those like but i got every time i posted a video someone asked me what shoes those were and i had to like just tag and be like, dude, I love these shoes. They're awesome. And then I used to do a lot of boxing, kickboxing, and like more rotational stuff. And I tore out the side of them. Yep, yep. Which now this has like an extra lining. I lost a lot of sleep over that.

Michael and I were in customer service back in the day with those things. So that's actually why they don't exist, right? So it's one of those things back to, you know, the filter, right? We don't change, you know, the shoes, you know, every season, you know, like, like big brands, because we have a strong philosophy. We make it better when we can and when we need to. And a perfect example is we launched with, you know, original Super Fabric Trainer. We launched with the Canvas Trainer. Super Fabric Trainer, We've kind of tweaked over the years as we've learned ways to make it better. Sam was a perfect example of helping us kind of figure out some of those things, those original canvas trainers. Uh, we stopped, uh, making and, and Michael, uh, designed these because we learned a lot in the process and we made them better. And, uh, there's like, there's like a strip along exactly where mine tore that looks like it's been reinforced yeah but i i emailed i took a picture of it and i emailed it to you guys and i said hey these shoes are rad i totally

want another pair and and you guys didn't have any more and i was i was even though i had tore through them or whatever like i was super bummed because i would i absolutely was going to buy them again and then i saw these and you guys actually actually saw that photo of me tearing through and you just sent me these. I didn't have to buy them. You just said, hey, here's your next pair of shoes. Sorry, those ones are broken. The customer service experience was fantastic.

So I appreciate that. Yeah, thank you. And it's one of those things where, again, we lead with pride. And so if something happens, we try and make it right as best we can was there a bit of a just in the back of your head instead of going into t-shirts which is really easy um put your cool logo on find some night we've already found really nice fabrics for this and then you know there's like a a time and energy and definitely a capital investment going into creating a shoe it's a that's a giant leap in the apparel side of things

where you were thinking, man, I hope this, obviously when you start a business, you're like, I really hope this works. But I feel like going into shoes is a giant leap from zero to one and then actually having to, did you guys bring in um i guess any like the supply chain and all of that you have to go create this whole thing and that just before you're even able to launch there's a massive investment yeah and just in that time was there

just nothing but good vibes like where are the hang-ups and creating shoe one to launch yeah and saying oh wow yeah so he's actually wearing this yeah it you know it's a it's a roller coaster ride starting anything uh and then especially you know dealing not you know working with factories i mean there are a lot of people who reach out to factories all the time about wanting to start something on the footwear side, the apparel side. And how the factories filter through those things is difficult. And then even when you get a factory to work with you, you know, in the early days, you know, you're not making from a factory's perspective a lot of product. And there's all sorts of risk.

And so you are absolutely lowest on the totem pole. Yeah. And if a big order comes in, you know, you just get bumped and they will make it when it makes sense for them to make it. You will say thank you. I mean, it's like, yeah, yeah. And it is, it's been a, it's been a journey. We were, we were just talking with our factory partner and they were talking about slotting, you know, production. And they said, you know, they've been filling in with smaller brands on smaller orders. And I was like, I remember those days and, uh, uh, remembered it fondly, but in the, you know, in the early time with it, it was, you know, we, when we first got started, we had, uh, you know, and full line of apparel, footwear, all these things.

And thank God the apparel took longer to get right. Because once the footwear came online, and it's also Michael's background was more on the footwear side, so it's also why the footwear worked first. And then we just focused everything on footwear. And the apparel was literally just that blanks where it was you know you know uh next level and you know blanks with our logos on it and as footwear started to grow and we started to have you know more bandwidth for apparel we were working on apparel and then we finally started to get apparel right then we started

doing more with apparel. So, you know, Footwear launched in January, 2015 cut and sew our first cut. And so apparel line didn't launch until holiday of 2016. Now apparel is a rapidly growing percentage of our business. We're incredibly proud of, of all of our apparel. It's, it's amazing. But it took a lot longer to get there and it's, you know know it's doing really well now but you know we're still kind of primarily a footwear company what's your full suite of products right now and we talk about footwear talk about some some t-shirts and whatnot and then i think you have bags as well yeah what what's already out there and then kind of what's on the horizon yeah so

so we have a some amazing bags and back to kind of michael's creativity the first bag he ever designed was our uh the noble duffel back, which is a kind of a cross between a duffel bag and a, and a backpack and kind of unique and unlike anything I had ever seen. And it's, you know, phenomenal. And then we've got complimentary bags with our traditional duffel XL duffel.

We've introduced a backpack as well. We're working on a new line of some really cool bags that uh i can't really talk about now um and then we've got uh we have you know things that you would wear in and around the gym or to the gym we are we are very much and will remain a training brand so anything that we make is something that you can train in you know we have leather trainers that are low tops high tops even leather runners and a lot of our customers like these are too gorgeous you know to work out in but you can your lifters oh yeah are not i would not feel comfortable doing a burpee in their lifters like well these things should be on a mantle somewhere they look so nice they are gorgeous i want uh uh my best friend uh

is an actor and i literally wore lifters to a movie premiere with him once because they were like i just felt like that very very appropriately so it's actually one thing i like about these is i can train them and then i can wear a pair of jeans and i look great well you know and that's a thing like it back in the day training shoes you know in my opinion look like training shoes and there's no reason that you can't have training shoes that look good shoes you know in my opinion look like training shoes and there's no reason that you can't have training shoes that look good and you know go with a variety you know of things right yeah like you can't put on the shoes and it has right now like and go to a movie premiere it's like it just doesn't make any sense you can only go to bar you said it not me

the only places are acceptable yeah there's nothing nothing wrong with that yeah like you know it's true it's okay to just have something you just trained in. You mentioned cleats earlier. It's like you only play football in your cleats, and then you put them aside and you get your other shoes and whatnot. But actually, on that note, when you said something about cleats, you said we don't have cleats yet. Was that on the horizon as well? So, yeah. We caught them.

Yeah. There we go. Did I say that? You said yes. So, you know, we do have an NFL quarterback now. Right. But it's interesting. So it's one of those things with the NFL, NBA, and others,

what you can wear on field. There's rules and regulations and dollars that go against all those things. So we see it as an opportunity for sure. Did I successfully kind of go around that? You did bounce around that right around that. We'll come back. I was like Neo in the Matrix on that. Well, I guess CrossFit this year was the first year that they allowed people to.

Yeah. I feel like we threw an event at the CrossFit Games this year. They're allowing all of the vendors or athletes to wear their own brands. It's kind of like the perfect opportunity. And now you guys go and sign Katrin, which is like a massive deal. We're going to take a quick break to talk about our sponsors. If you want to come on vacation with me, you should totally do that. We're going to WOD on the waves.

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All one word. My dude, Marcus Wilson, smashing the pod. Back to the show when you're looking for athletes aligning with the culture what noble stands for um sam being the first one catrin kind of being the the new big name that you guys are bringing in um you're going after the highest level athletes now that's. That's a giant leap from the startup mentality, kind of of like, let's find some people, build this small culture and let it grow out.

And now you're aiming right at the top. Yeah, so first of all, I'd just like to say it's been really amazing to see the evolution of CrossFit and the games. And my understanding where the thinking came from with, you know, letting athletes, you know, wear whatever brand of footwear they wanted to and inviting more things in, uh, and other brands, you know, kind of letting them participate. It's all about the athlete. CrossFit is so focused on the athletes and they recognize that this is, you know, if it's better for the athletes is you know if it's better for the

athletes you know it's better for the community and so you know noble we were at the CrossFit Games this year and in 2019 to support our athletes so you know we we and we had several athletes who were competing there, you know, Sam, Christy, Tola, Brooke Wells, Katrin, Tia is also a noble athlete. And we were there supporting all of them in ways that we just, we wanted to highlight how amazing, you know, they are and celebrate that. And that's what we did, you know, and we were so proud of them. And this goes back to, you know, signing an NFL quarterback when you don't make a cleat. It's not about what you do on the field on Sunday. It's about the work that you put in every other day of the week.

And with our athletes, it's not about what they do at the games. It's about how hard they work every other day, how they carry in themselves how they train the discipline that they have that's what we're proud of whether they're you know at the games when the games that honestly that's not what matters to us and so this is one of those things where you know we have such a great group of athletes that are a part of this and we're and we're proud of them you know brooke wells wow what she you know the the mental roller coaster for her you know at the games and she handled that so well could not be more proud of that yeah you know and it was it was you know she trained all year for that right and it was it was a moment and you you know, in seconds that she was doing so well. I mean, Brooke was so fit and is so fit and just, like, was dialed in and doing really, really well.

And then for something like, you know, that to happen. What happened? So we just talk to people throughout the games. We don't actually ever make it to the events. We hear about all the stuff like 30 i don't know the details there yeah so you know uh in the sprint and and brooke is fast yeah too uh she stepped on a line and got a 10 second penalty ah in a 20 you know second something which took her from in a in a great position uh you know, and, you know, likely would have been in the top five to last.

And that's where they had to cut and it put her out of the top 10. And so it essentially ended her games. Gotcha. And so, you know, and the way that she handled that was such grace. And, you know, then she was in a press conference shortly thereafter it, you know, talking about it.

And, you know, I'm so proud of how she handled that. It was just incredible. It felt like Ben does a really good job of teaching his athletes to only focus on what they can control and to just kind of forget the rest. Yeah. So Ben is a firm believer and focus on what you can control and all those things. And, um, and he certainly can, you know, gives that, you know, guidance to his athletes. Um, but he also is working with awesome athletes you know and and they are certainly open to that guidance um but you know it's something that i think also is kind of core to who they are so it's just like i think you know ben is amazing in those things but i also want to make you know i don't want to take away from oh yeah brooke gets all the credit she has

actually had to do it yeah yeah and and you know. And at a young age, I would not have been able to handle that that well. She was in college like a year ago, right? Yeah, how old is she? She just graduated. Literally. I was not in my 20s. So we met Brooke when she was 19. So she's, I'm guessing, sorry, Brooke, 23?

That sounds about right. I wouldn't be prepared for that at 23. Yeah, are you kidding me? And it's really amazing. I'm not prepared for that now. But the things now that, you know, athletes like Brooke, Katrin T, all of them are, you know, are dealing with is they are, you know, high profile. They have kind of celebrity status, which also can be, you know, misunderstood. They are not, you know, I don't think of them as celebrities. I think those athletes be you know misunderstood they are not you know i don't think of them as celebrities

i think those athletes you know and it's very easy to kind of see you know what happens or what gets posted on instagram and lose sight of all the work and sacrifice and dedication i mean you know first brooke sleeps has like you guys are talking about, you know, being at whoop. Brooke sleeps like a rock. Well, maybe not a rock star. It's probably because rock stars probably don't sleep. But she's like epic when it comes to sleep. But when you think about that, you know, getting 10 hours of sleep when you're in your early 20s, you're missing out on a lot of things.

Yeah. You know, and these are things that people don't really think about. But it is, you know, going to bed at like 8 30 or 9 you know on a on a friday uh which speaks to the level of dedication and that that goes for you know all of our athletes they you know sleep is an important part of their recovery they are professional athletes and so they dial it in and it's really easy to kind of see some of these you know posts uh on instagram and lose sight of uh how hard they actually work i think a lot of that conversation comes back to you guys though and treating them like professional athletes and especially like

in the early days of crossfit when all these like weird bad contracts i'll send you a t-shirt you have to post all this stuff and like athletes athletes didn't know. They were just in the gym working out and this sport happened. Is that part of the culture of you guys and the way that your interaction works with them? Or do they have like agents and there's like all these firewalls before you get to them? How do you guys manage those relationships? Yeah, so they have agents and most of our athletes, if not all of them, are managed by Matt and Sammy, who are awesome individuals. And they play a really important role in this. So they help kind of guide the athletes.

And from my perspective or a brand's perspective is they play an important kind of bridge. And so not only just on the contract side, making sure that everything happens there, but also logistically, you know, if you're training, you know, if that's your job, that's what you focus on and you don't necessarily focus on when do I need to be here? You know, when do I, and now it's global, right? So we're doing a, uh, uh, going to, you know when do i and now it's global right so we're doing a uh uh going to you know austria for a shoot iceland for a shoot australia for a shoot the logistics around all of that and then all of these schedules and getting people there uh it would be a nightmare to do without um uh you know the help of matt uh and sammy with the athletes yeah and so i think that it you know you know the representation for athletes

also helps kind of reduce the risk of those contracts that you're talking about. But it also plays an important role of helping the athletes understand what it means to be a professional athlete because there is a transition there. To change the subject just a little bit, do you feel like the sanctionals are really good for business it's like so it is in in kind of my opinion there's been a lot of

talk around it there's a because it's change and change can be hard but when you know you look at the the games and the hundred and was it 14 represented, we had the opportunity to meet with a lot of the national champions from all over the world who, you know, it was really interesting to talk with them, and we sat down and did some interviews with them, and it was a really phenomenal, there's so many phenomenal stories there. But I think this is going to help bring awareness

to all of these countries in a way that so much faster than it would have so i think that you know the change is hard and it's disruptive but i think you know from a global perspective uh you know crossfit's global global growth is going to explode and there's also just such cool stories of what's happening in all these places um that we uh you know you know in talking with them we want to highlight and shine lights on some of these things things that are just not fitness related fitness you know is something that can challenge challenge social norms you know you think about you know women in the middle east who are cross-fitting now and um uh mishka who's the uh national champion uh

from pakistan you know the the have you guys talked with her i think that's one of travis mash's athletes oh yeah yeah maybe i'm not i'm but she, you know, she's really strong. I may have the wrong person, but she's, she's phenomenal. She, uh, and she happens to be a grad student here, uh, in the Boston area. And so we had a chance to talk with her and, you know, in, in, then she, uh, we sent, uh, uh, you know, a bunch of the national champions. We were just like, Hey, you know, congratulations on the work that you put in to get there. And, uh, sent a bunch of the national champions. We were just like, hey, you know, congratulations on the work that you put in to get there. And sent a bunch of them just, you know, kind of care packages of product.

That's a massive opportunity to be able to go and talk to those athletes because they really will become, in the same way that Rich Froning and Frazier and Katrin are in the States, they really will become celebrities. Sports national heroes. Yeah. And we were just impressed by, you know, the dedication and work regardless.

Back to the point about it doesn't matter what you do with the games. It's about the work that you put in. And so that stuff in different situations and, you know, coming from a part of the world where, you know, women and fitness and training and all this other stuff, it's not necessarily approved of or supported.

And with this, it's going to start a conversation. And this interesting thing that can come out of it is hopefully growth and acceptance. And when you start looking at it on a social scale, it's a very different situation. As you guys grow, you start in this functional fitness CrossFit space. And I feel like as a company grows, especially at the rate that you guys are growing, opportunities present themselves all over the place. I mean, even talking about NFL and cleats are going into bags and apparel, especially when it started as a shoe company. What is kind of the decision-making process for you guys on this feels right, we're going to go here, this probably isn't the angle that we're looking for?

Like how does that, how do you guys find the people and the brands and sports that you'd like to align yourself with? Yeah, so one thing we, Michael and I really talk a lot about is like not drowning in opportunity. And I have to say we've been pretty disciplined around that and saying no. Yeah. Because it's like if we're gonna do something,

we wanna do it well and to the kind of the best of our ability. And we're trying not to put ourselves in noble positions of agreeing to do something and then falling short. And so that comes to global expansion, for example. So it's something that we're starting to do more of, but we've been very cautious to expand too fast because we're a bootstrap startup. And we're super proud of that, but it forces us to be very focused,

and that's a level of discipline that we like to have, and I think Michael and I talk about if we were ever to bring in investors, what would we do, and the concern that we have is that we wouldn't be as disciplined. We would try to do too many things too fast and lose kind of the heart and soul. So you guys have scaled this thing

without any outside investment? Yeah, man. It's been, yeah. So it's been a- Go dude. Dang, that's rad. It's been an interesting journey. So it was, you know,

and it goes back to- Especially in retail, carrying that inventory. So, you know, well, a lot of our- That's tough. Yeah, a lot of our customers are frustrated with how often we're out of inventory. It's just me. I'm just a guy. I like shoes.

Do you think they look cool? Just say yes. I promise I'm trying. But, you know, it's interesting. So it was partly by design and the business model with the agency and all those things. And so, you know, we were able to use, you know, revenue from the agency to kind of, and a whole lot of personal savings. And so it was, you know, the early days, it was Michael and his wife, Amy, me and my wife, Anisha, personally investing, right? So we, the four of us technically are, you know, the investors.

But that goes from, you know, Michael and I, you know, not making any money. And, you know, we walk and walk away from, you know, meaningful salaries and not getting, you know, any meaningful paycheck. You know, wiring money from our personal bank accounts and you know in in sending a wire from your savings account to a factory in asia is just like here we go i don't know what's going to happen in this transaction and there seems like a lot of land and water in between where this money's going yeah i don't understand and uh but you know it is it definitely took a leap of faith you know it's just like jump and figure it out on the way down and you know our wives have been incredibly uh supportive and

and are a part of you know all the big business decisions about you know this you know michael and amy talk a lot about you know big decisions and anish and i talk a lot about big decisions and you know kind of make those things uh collectively and and you know with their support uh but it is a it is you know certainly in those early days it was a roller coaster ride i don't know if a lot of people understand how much pressure that is because you have a 10 and a 14 year old daughter yes yes and nobles 2005 so they're it's all in about the same time and now you have very little paycheck and you've got a family and yeah so 2015 is kind of when so when it was 2012 when we kind of walked away from jobs and so you know you talk about a three-year-old and a seven-year-old.

I mean, and Michael's boys are just a little bit younger than my daughter. So we're, you know, super young kids. My daughter, who's now 14 and a half, she always corrects me on that. And my 10-year-old is 10 and a half. They always correct me on that. But there have been times where I've i've talked about you know not putting money into their college funds and they're like oh that hurts you know but uh you know it it and you know it's paid off so far uh but it is those are gigantic uh decisions and not ones to take lightly

but this is also where michael and i certainly balance each other out and there are highs and lows and and you know fortunately we don't hit the lows at the same time um zero chance i could have done this on my own there's just no way uh and there's no way michael could have done it on his own and so our skill sets and our mentality and also our sense of humor not taking ourselves too seriously um have really lined up uh with all of this yeah i feel like there's a there's a piece to, especially in the apparel side of things, the number of, I've been in the CrossFit space for like 13-ish years now,

and the number of companies in the t-shirt business that you see at the games for one to two years, and then you don't ever see them again. It's a very in and out, and it's it's easy to get in it's easy to get out and you're probably not going to do make a huge impact in the middle yeah um in that process though you guys have stuck around and we've kind of scaled this into new sports now um are there one of the stories that keeps coming up is for me is the the professional lacrosse league i'm sure you've seen them there's a guy out of baltimore that's just doing a phenomenal job

are there sports that you guys have specifically like pointed in the direction of like we want to be in that market yeah so you know uh our running she's a perfect example of this. So we have been very fortunate to build a community that trusts us and believes in us and really likes what we have to say. You guys nailed that part. And, you know, we are a part of that community, right? So it was back to building something we're proud of. We wanted to build something that spoke to us because we were very much a part of this community, and it has connected and resonated with everyone else. What we don't want to do and what we did not want to do with the running shoe,

as a perfect example, is we don't suddenly want to go after hardcore marathon runners. That is not who we are. And, oh, by the way, hardcore marathon runners, how often are they going to listen to a new shoe company saying hey try our running shoe what they you know who they do listen to are other hardcore runners and you know with the growth and expansion of crossfit there are people who are hardcore marathon runners who use crossfit to train and they trust, and they're willing to try our running shoes. And when they try our running shoes and they like it,

then they talk to these other friends who don't know who we are. That word of mouth is super powerful. We did the same thing with our Olympic lifting shoe. We didn't go after the broader Olympic lifting community. We talked to CrossFitters who used Olympic lifting shoes. And now now what we've seen with that it's spread into strength and conditioning coaches in all the major leagues it's you know professional athletes you know strong men people who um use olympic lifting shoes uh outside of kind of the crossfit world and that's been much more uh you

know of the philosophy on how to how to spread yeah and so with that you think about you know what are other activities that you know crossfitters or people use crossfit to train for yeah and then that's kind of the way that we're thinking about when did you guys start to think about going into actual brick and mortar uh this is very difficult you have a beautiful space here in the middle of i could assume this is downtown-ish Boston. One, that's more expenses. Brick and mortar is very hard in 2019. That's probably a pretty big leap in the business plan and trying to plant a flag somewhere.

For sure. We currently have stores in Soho, New York, which was the first flagship we opened. And then shortly thereafter, we opened here in the leather district in Boston. And then we've been kind of testing, you know, pop-ups here and there and learning. And so what we've been finding is a number of people who, you know, come to our store, take a selfie before they come in, and then come in and hang out. They shop, they try things on. It's an opportunity to interact and engage with the brand in a much more powerful way.

And so that's how we're approaching things on the retail side, is just come in, hang out with the people who are working in the store, but also with the other people who are shopping. This is a really cool... CrossFit is such a powerful community. who are working in the store, but also with the other people who are shopping, this is a really cool, you know, uh, the same with CrossFit is such a powerful community. Yeah.

Um, and, and the training community, you know, that, that we're talking to, which is certainly CrossFit and others. Um,

they like talking to one another. Yeah. It's really cool. So the amount of time people spend in the store is phenomenal. So for us, retail plays a slightly different role. Yeah. It's as much about community engagement as it is about, you know, selling product on the floor in the store.

And that's helped us, you know, try these things and then recognize that, you know, there are always going to be things that we can learn and tweak. Soho is a perfect example of just like get the damn thing open. Yeah. And let's figure out where it goes. Yeah, let's open it. Let's open brick and mortar in the middle of New York City. Yeah. That's a great idea.

It was. Great job. Yeah. And you know the funny thing with that store. We're making really good decisions here, guys. So it's interesting. I used to go to New York all the time, but I never really looked at New York from a retail perspective.

And so I started to go down literally with kind of my you know retail hat which I'd never you know never really knew anything about retail quite frankly and started going around and looking at things and then we found back to gut like there's the store that we're at at Prince and Lafayette just felt right like absolutely we really felt like we would probably outgrow it, but it felt like the first chapter in our retail book. And it's worked out really well. We were looking to do, you know, a three to six month pop-up,

but the store was not available in a pop-up as a pop-up. So like our literally first step in retail, multi-year lease, which violates every rule that I would ever give. But it was just like, okay, we've got, you know, there's, there's a, you know, a huge customer base in New York and let's never do this again. But, you know, here we go. And it's worked out. It's worked out really, really well. There are lots of, you know, and I've, I've, you know, i've advised a lot of uh entrepreneurs over the years

and have been like an executive uh in residence at mit and things like that michael and i violated so many rules uh and so many things that i always caution uh entrepreneurs on so it is um uh it's very easy to say well this is different this is different is that one of those things where you knew the rule so to speak and then because you actually know the rules, you can break them in certain instances? Maybe, yeah. Rather than simply just being naive? Yeah. I mean, very good point.

It's one of these things is like, here's why you shouldn't do something. And then we can think through it strategically of, okay, why does this make sense? Why is this an exception to that? And then, yes, so I think there's a little bit more to it, but it is still nerve-wracking at times. Has building the business, you have 50 plus employees at this specific location, I assume there's an entire digital team somewhere, multiple locations around the world now. Scaling the business and people, people are tough. What is the process of actually like hiring employees here, making sure that they're fully bought into the culture and mission that

you guys are putting forward? Yeah. So we're literally in the process of kind of revamping that whole approach because, quite frankly, it's the most important thing that we can be doing right now. Because if you think about it, when we launched, there were three people focused on Noble, and none of us were focused full-time right so it's like so january 2015 when we launch noble we had a marketing marketing and design agency and uh cold water surfing brands we had three companies three full-time people it was you know me michael and todd and then there was you know people who were helping us on a contract basis but you talk about juggling and you couldn't focus on any one thing and then that also goes against the rule again lots and lots of violations of the rules here let's start three things yeah this isn't enough one is a good number yeah i did it i could do it but in the fall you know i think we had maybe four, maybe five employees when we moved into this office that we're in right now.

In January of 2018, we had 10 full-time employees. And by the end of the year, it was 40 plus. So think about that. The company is like four times large. So it's like four of those. And maintaining culture and all those things get harder and harder. the company is like four times large. So it's like four of those. And maintaining culture and all those things get harder and harder. And so what we're doing now is really just kind of identifying what makes people on the team successful.

It's a very similar approach as what athletes do we sign and what are these things that tie it all together. So we're going through are these things that tie it all together so we're going through all these discussions right now yeah like anderson and i we ran gyms for a number of years and you know you pass 56 70 80 100 members 150 members you're 200 members and all of a sudden it goes from being like oh yeah this is this is dave and bill we've been we've been hanging out forever we know each other i know your whole background all your injuries like yeah i know everything about you two being like oh hey you know nice to meet you you know are you new and they're like i've been

here for six months you're like oh so yeah so in the early days story though it's like it's hard to keep up after a while stronger cool okay i gotta go back to my office especially get more opportunities like when i started the barbell shrug thing so i was traveling and doing other stuff and i'd show up in my gym and they'd be like oh i don't know these people like i used to know them when we were small and yeah and everyone knew everyone yeah in the early days michael and i worked with everybody i mean it was you know we we you know there's a couple of long desks that we all kind of worked around and and we all worked together and so one of the things that i've started doing recently when i kind of had that moment of

walking in and i'm like i don't know enough enough about, you know, the people on the team, what they're doing is that started just doing, you know, 10 to 15 minute walks. So, Hey, let's go grab coffee, you know, tell me, you know, tell me what you're up to tell me, you know, just getting to know them as people because it's one of those things where, you know, everything is so personal here, and I want to maintain that. Michael and I talk a lot about maintaining that as long as we can. At some point, you can't go for walks with everybody.

But if we're building the culture that is inclusive and in line with what we're looking for, that's the goal. You mentioned MIT earlier, and Ben, he set us up. He said last time we interviewed him, he was like, oh, you guys can go to MIT and interview Marcus. I was like, they're going to let Barbell shrug to hang out with the smart kids. What was your role over there? Well, I went to grad school there and then got very involved in the entrepreneurship center. Gotcha. And so I was an entrepreneur in residence there for a number of years. And then, things started ramping up here, I spent less time over there. And it's one of those things where I'm so close I need to –

Was that before or after IdeaPaint? It was during. So actually the – So you were like kind of in the hub at MIT, deep in this world, and then you had your baby that you were growing on the outside. Yeah, so if you go to MIT's Entrepreneurship Center, you're going to see IdeaPaint all over the walls, and that was very much me.

They're not letting us in. We'll go over there together. Yeah. This has been fantastic. I've been a huge fan just watching from the outside in of everything you guys have built here. I love that it really has stayed true to the culture of that feeling and that vibe that you guys put out, so I love that it really has stayed true to the culture of that feeling and that vibe

that you guys put out. I very much appreciate the time. Awesome. Thanks for thinking of us and including me. I really appreciate it. It's been really great talking with you guys. We want to tell people where they can find you. You specifically. Me personally? Yep.

Noble's website, nobleproject.com and our Instagram, nobleproject. And my personal is speaktomarcus. That's the word speak, the number two, Marcus. Beautiful. Right on. Doug Larson. Find me on Instagram, Douglas E. Larson.

You can find me at Anders Varner because I'm Anders Varner. We're the Shrug Collective at Shrug Collective. Get over to onetonchallenge.com. Six lifts, snatch clean jerk, jerk, squat, dead, bench, with the goal of hitting 2,000 pounds, 1,200 for you ladies. Get your PRs in the leaderboard. We'll see you guys next Wednesday. That's a wrap, friends.

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