Barbell Shrugged - Know Your Consumer by Being Your Consumer with Matt Mullenax, Founder & CEO of Huron - Business of Fitness #71

Starting point is 00:00:00 All right, everyone, and welcome back to the Business of Fitness podcast. I'm Jason Kalipa, and on today's episode, we have Matt Mullinax. Now, Matt started a company named Huron, and it is A-plus personal care for guys everywhere. Now, normally, if you've been listening to this show, we dive into coaching, and we're definitely talking about fitness. We also bring on people like the general manager of a hotel or a different type of restaurant ears who could provide value from outside the fitness space to help us with our business. Matt was an NC Fit member for a long time, went to Stanford, got his MBA, went out to

Starting point is 00:00:38 New York and he started a company. And it's a great example of identifying your passion and following it, but also backing it up your passion and following it, but also backing it up with not only hard work, but also credibility. I really enjoyed listening to what Matt had to say and learning from his experiences. I hope you do as well. Before we dive into the episode, just want to remind you, if you haven't checked out our partners over at Whoop, they make a really cool wrist strap that I wear. It tracks my heart rate, tracks my sleep, tracks my strain score, and it's a really cool wrist strap that i wear it tracks my heart rate tracks my sleep tracks

Starting point is 00:01:05 my strain score and it's a really useful tool go to whoop.com utilize the code jason for an awesome discount and i hope you guys get to check that out now while you're listening to the episode if you're enjoying it take a quick screenshot send me a message on instagram let me know what you're thinking about these episodes and how we can improve or what type of people you want on the show. And we'll go find them and talk the fitness business or business in general. I hope everybody's having a phenomenal day and let's dive right into the episode. All right, everybody. So I am here with Matt from Huron and we are discussing his business. And I think for anybody that listens to this show regularly, you are really going to love this episode. Now, we always talk about the fitness space, but at times we have different people on

Starting point is 00:01:59 who aren't necessarily in the fitness space. Now, Matt was a member of ours here at NC fit for a long time while he was going to his graduate school at Stanford. And it's a super organic conversation we've been having about his business and starting it. And I wanted to share it on this podcast because I feel like it's important for us in our industry to learn from other industries as well. And maybe what he, the struggles he has with starting capital or with packaging or, or with employees or whatever it may be, other gym owners can relate to and hear it from a different side. And maybe that helps them improve their business. So Matt, thanks for taking the time today. Really appreciate you flying out to, uh, here we are in beautiful

Starting point is 00:02:39 Campbell, California to discuss Huron. Thanks so much for having me, Jason. This is awesome. So tell me a little bit about what is Huron and how'd you come up with the name? Because we were talking about earlier, I thought that was really interesting. So Huron is a men's personal care business. We launched recently, exactly 22 days ago. 22? 22 days ago. Not that I'm counting. And who's counting? So we're starting with the basics. We have body wash, face wash, face lotion with a slew of products to come. And Huron actually comes from the fact that that was the street that I lived on while living in Chicago. And we can kind of get into this, I'm sure we will. But, you know, my backstory in the

Starting point is 00:03:22 space and kind of my relationship with the space is I was a kid that grew up with bad skin and kind of the the peak of these problems were really when i was in chicago and living on here on street in this apartment uh so when thinking about creating this brand and the touch points and the naming and the color scheme etc so many critical factors to the early stages of a company it was fun to kind of retrace that journey and name the company after you know kind of the early the early streets and some of the times when I was at my lowest. That is, that's super, super, I'm glad we started here because I think that's such an interesting perspective. I think with any company we were talking about being authentic and putting out something that you want. I mean, like in our gyms, I believe in our product because

Starting point is 00:04:00 this embodies what I live every single day. And I think for you, you know, talking about the street that you grew up on and how you said that you were at your lowest, I mean, a lot of people would look at you with your background. You were in private equity, you worked for Bonobos, and then you were Stanford MBA, which is no small feat, right? That's a great school. So a lot of people would look at you and just by the way you look and the way you carry yourself to be like, Oh, this guy is super successful. Um, you know, but you were saying at that point that was a low time. So tell me why, why did you start a skincare line for men? I mean, that's just sounds kind of random, but tell me a little more about it. Totally fair question. Um, you know, I think for me in graduating from

Starting point is 00:04:45 Stanford, I was thinking about really what I wanted to do after school. And I'd looked at kind of going back into the private equity realm, the investor realm. And, you know, I'd written all my business school applications actually about being a consumer entrepreneur. And I'm not married, don't have kids. So kind of what better time than now to really kind of take the leap of faith, so to speak. And I always wanted to produce, pursue something within the consumer's fear. But I knew that if I were to go this route, I had to do something where I felt like I really related to and resonated with the end consumer. And for me as a kid growing up with bad skin and kind of having some skin issues, you know issues throughout even my 20s, this seemed to

Starting point is 00:05:26 be a space that I feel like I knew a lot about and could ultimately pass on value to this consumer. So as I looked at the various categories within the consumer sphere, this certainly made the most sense for me. Yeah. I think for anybody listening who owns a gym or owns a business, I think where it starts with is we're talking about having a competitive advantage, aligning with your marketplace of where you want to go, who's your core customer. And for you, your competitive advantage is that you knew who that person, you want to speak to yourself, period. And so as you're going through Stanford, what was really interesting to me, we were talking about this while grabbing some coffee earlier, is just how you had that entrepreneurial bug and how did you know that the finance world wasn't for you?

Starting point is 00:06:13 How did you know that private equity world wasn't for you and that you had this entrepreneurial spirit where you wanted to create something new? Yeah, good question. So going through my second year of business school, I had a number of interviews and was meeting with a number of firms that were tremendous firms. And I was getting to find around interviews and meeting and discussing with these folks. And I just didn't have that spark or that extreme level of excitement that I had previously. And this was no longer a two-year commitment or a four-year commitment. This is what I was going to do for the rest of my life. And I just couldn't see myself waking up every morning being super excited to go to work. And I think for me, that was always something that was very, very important. So kind of that entrepreneurial bug started to manifest itself in thinking about ways where I could really give back to someone who I was

Starting point is 00:07:05 five or 10 years ago. And we like to say, you know, know your consumer by being your consumer. And that's really what kind of started was, you know, could we actually create a branded assortment of products that looked, felt, acted like some of the more premium brands that are out there, but deliver these products at price points that didn't break the bank. And so, you know, you wanted to go to work every day because you're right. It wasn't like a one, two year, three year gig. You're in it for life. And I think there's some people out there that have some type of job and they might be thinking to themselves, you know, maybe this isn't what I want to do. You knew that you wanted to speak to your consumer. You knew that that person was you.

Starting point is 00:07:40 And I get that. Now talk, talk me through. It's one thing for me to say, Hey, I want to start a coffee company. I know I talk about that all the time. It's another thing to actually back that up with some actual data points. And I found that was really interesting for me when talking to you is that even though you're passionate about this, you backed up that passion with, um, you know, not only school, right. MBA, but also you started doing like test cases, which was really fascinating to me. So can you take me through what those test cases looked like, including the one, the survey that you put out?

Starting point is 00:08:12 So shortly after graduation, we ended up launching a survey to about 1500 guys. And we asked questions that were kind of consumer related. So, you know, which products do you currently use? Which face wash do you use? Do you use a moisturizer, et cetera? And then purchasing related questions. So at what price point do you feel comfortable spending?

Starting point is 00:08:31 Does someone buy on your behalf, et cetera? And we found that guys who make 50K a year, make 500K a year, we found that $20 was kind of a natural price ceiling. So that was one key learning for us. We found that guys who, whether they live in New York or Milwaukee or Dallas or Austin or wherever, were certainly interested in this category. They just didn't know a ton about it. And they were

Starting point is 00:08:56 kind of looking for that outlet that didn't really exist. And that was kind of the void that we really saw and got a lot of excitement and traction around. This is super interesting to me. So you sent it out to 1500 guys. How did you do that? Yeah, good question. So kind of leveraged undergrad networks, friends from Chicago, from Ohio growing up, and then actually found a few folks who had a pretty decent following, whether it be social or just kind of big names within their communities. And we'll just offer them kind of cash or Amazon gift cards and say, hey, for a $20 gift card, would you send this out to your entire email list? Yeah. This amongst several other things you're talking about is probably one of the key things

Starting point is 00:09:33 for me is that before you even started getting into this company, before you even started an LLC or whatever it was, you just simply put out a survey and you wanted to kind of realize, hey, are my thoughts validated by the marketplace? What is the marketplace saying to me? Super, super cool. I think as a gym owner out there, as a business owner, we survey our members all the time because a lot of times we think we know, um, but it's nice to know, you know, by, by looking at the sum of, and not just some, you know, a good example for those of you who are getting ready for the CrossFit open. I thought that, you know, maybe it was 50,50 on how many gyms wanted to participate this year in the Open because there was two this year. Ended up coming back that 90% of the ones we surveyed want to do it and 10% didn't.

Starting point is 00:10:14 And that shocked me. But now you have this critical mass you can learn from. So as you're kind of surveying, which is a very valuable point, you then catapulted that before you graduated into the test market, which is even cooler. So can you tell me about that? Yeah. And even just to take a step back, I thought the point that you just brought up was a very salient one. In consumer, whether it's fitness or personal care, apparel, et cetera, it's very important to remember that we are just a sample set of one. Like our perspectives are an N of one, right? What we believe is maybe not the same thing

Starting point is 00:10:47 that our members believe or our potential customers believe. So for us, sampling and survey work is extremely important. So we can kind of take off the blinders and maybe understand what we're not addressing. So I thought that was a really good point. To your question, after we launched the initial survey, we actually built and launched a fake

Starting point is 00:11:06 brand. So we kind of rolled all these data points together, built a website under a fake URL, disabled the carts. You couldn't actually check out when you purchased these products. We couldn't actually purchase the products. And this is when you were a senior in college? Or were you at- No, sorry.

Starting point is 00:11:19 This is at Stanford. This was while you were at Stanford? Yeah, shortly after. Shortly after. Okay. And we ran social media campaigns all over the country focused largely on kind of the midwest but but also certainly some some other markets as well um and the goal of that was was twofold one was to see what ads people were clicking on so did guys

Starting point is 00:11:36 want all natural skincare or they just interested in better skincare or vegan men's skincare what have you um and then result with that was all the ads were, the click-through rates were basically even. So there was no winner per se that, you know, all natural outperformed basic two to one. So that was interesting. And then secondly, once the consumer ultimately clicked through to the website, we started to assess what the consumer journey was once they reached the website. So was the cadence face wash, then lotion, then shampoo or conditioner, then body wash, then toothpaste. We basically built 60 product pages to kind of really throw the gauntlet at this consumer, everything that you

Starting point is 00:12:17 could possibly need in the bathroom. And then that ultimately helped inform what our initial product offering would be at launch. I think so guys, I really hope for those of us with businesses or even just, you know, entrepreneurial at heart are listening to this because I, for one have talked to a lot of people. I don't know if I have met anybody who is as thorough in that process as you have been. Not only did you have this like, you know, survey put out, but then this fake cart. And, um, what was interesting to me is how many people tried to actually check out about 700. So could you guys imagine getting 700 pissed off people? Cause it was all fake and they thought they were good. Yeah. We chat about

Starting point is 00:12:55 this earlier, but, but there was more than one occasion when I received a piece of hate email being like, you know, your site is totally broken. Like what's wrong with this thing. And you know, I kind of felt guilty, but it was also validating that people certainly felt, you know, uh, excited enough to, to at least pen an email to me. That's right. Now, case in point though, guys, real quick, um, Matt did not utilize the same brand that he eventually started, which is her and her here on here on, I always pronounce it wrong. Um, he used a different brand. So if you are going to go out there and do this case study, which, uh, you know, I think validates where you're going, do it underneath a different brand because then otherwise people are going to have preconceived notions. And I think when you're

Starting point is 00:13:33 getting into business, a lot of the times you take risk, of course, right? And you've taken plenty of risk. You had this opportunity to go this one route that had massive amounts of money, good security. You chose to go this entrepreneurial route, had massive amounts of money, good security. You chose to go this entrepreneurial route, which doesn't have anything guaranteed. But through these processes, you kind of earned that confidence to go out there and go build up your business. So talk me through a little bit more about what is your product and what makes it different than what I just use, which is when I go into the shower or until I got your samples, when I go into the shower, I just, whatever my wife has there, I just randomly

Starting point is 00:14:08 just throw it on. I don't think anything of a body wash, a face wash. And I don't know if I've ever used a facial lotion. So tell me a little bit more about what is the actual product and then how do you start sourcing this stuff? I mean, how do you develop it? Yeah, good question. So when thinking about the actual construction of our products and maybe, you know, quote unquote, why they're different, or what's the secret sauce. So there's really kind of two ways to approach this new kind of clean performing or well-performing formula and strip out anything that would be quote unquote bad. So parabens and sulfates and silicones and phthalates and aluminum are kind of big buzzwords in that category. And kind of strip out all those pieces and you're left with kind of a straw man product per se. It's kind of unclear what's left in that product, but it's usually fragrance and some other pieces that do a decent job of making you feel clean.

Starting point is 00:15:10 We've actually decided to take the polar opposite approach, which is start from the ground and build up. So incorporate things like skin moisturizing elements or skin conditioning elements, or for face wash, there's an exfoliant, which is a deep cleanser. We actually use crushed bamboo for that. We tried 48- Crushed bamboo? Crushed bamboo. I think we looked at somewhere between 30 and 35 different exfoliants. And you came up with crushed bamboo for that we tried 48 crushed bamboo crushed bamboo i think we looked at somewhere between 30 and 35 different exfoliants and you come up with crushed bamboo crushed bamboo how do they crush the bamboo yeah i don't ask questions but it works really well and it feels awesome really yeah so and you know even taking a step back a bit further we're very fortunate to

Starting point is 00:15:39 be working with uh some amazing manufacturers who put us in front of some of these ingredients um so we've really taken kind of a bottoms up approach and said, you know, we want to incorporate XYZ into these products and let's do whatever we can to be able to offer those benefits in a cost efficient manner. So we can go create something that's an amazing product, but you know, if it costs $50, that's not going to resonate with the consumer that we're trying to target. So it was kind of a balance between creating high-performing, multifunctioning products, but still being able to deliver those products at a price point that wouldn't break the bank for this guy. So how many samples do you think you got?

Starting point is 00:16:19 Wow, that's a really good question. So we started product development basically September of last year and finished around May or June of this year. And we were getting samples every week. So I would take one, my partner Matt would take one and we would pass out anything that we had remaining from those two samples to anyone that we talked to, friends, folks that worked in our shared space. I would let my girlfriend take them to her office and to pass around so we were constantly collecting feedback this is where this kind of circles back to your to our n equals one discussion of you know it's important to continually source different points of feedback and perspectives from various folks so that you

Starting point is 00:16:59 kind of understand how your products are resonating with with different consumer groups who may or may not even be your consumer yeah wow okay so you're putting in all these different products. Now talk to me a little bit about you, you created a partnership and for those people listening who have a partnership, I think oftentimes where it becomes really handy is when that person has a set of skills that you don't necessarily have and creating this kind of clear lines of, Hey, you're going to be the front of the house, back of the house, talking about restaurant type stuff. But for you, you have a partner, his name's also Matt. Can you take us through a little bit about how did you start to create that relationship? And then did you guys ever have like the birds and bees

Starting point is 00:17:38 conversation about like equity shares owners? I mean, how does that all work? Yeah, we did. Uh, you know. Really good question. And those are certainly not easy discussions to have. But I think Matt and I worked through a lot of those conversations pretty seamlessly because we were just blatantly honest with each other and super transparent. And I think we were good about getting out ahead of those discussions such that they weren't kind of festering behind the scenes. So I think it's important to say, you know, these are important conversations that at some point or another are going to come up. So if you can get out in front of those, that's something that's to your benefit.

Starting point is 00:18:14 And to kind of circling back on Matt's background. So my partner, Matt, he worked at Estee Lauder for upwards of 20 years and most recently was the vice president of global product development for a lab series in Tom Ford men's, which are obviously two kind of very prestige men's skincare and personal care businesses, oftentimes sold out the Barneys or the Bloomingdales or the Neiman Marcus's of the world. So he had just an unbelievable kind of domain expertise level of creating skincare products that was historically reserved for kind of the 0.001% of guys, but was super interested in bringing that technology and that level of functionality

Starting point is 00:18:50 to guys everywhere. How'd you meet him? Yeah. So we shared a mutual connection from business school. So an alum from Stanford had worked with Matt previously. I kind of connected the dots when I moved to New York. But to your point earlier around kind of complementary skill sets. So from my days at Bonobos, from working in the kind of the consumer investing sphere, I had decent financial chops. I had some exposure to marketing, but I didn't have any idea on how to create product. And I actually started Googling contract manufacturers, which to me just seemed idiotic at the time. But I had no idea where to start. Right. Right. And this actually started Googling contract manufacturers, which to me just seemed idiotic at the time. But I had no idea where to start. Right. Right. And this is a category where a lot of

Starting point is 00:19:30 brands aren't readily willing to tell you who their partners are or where they make the stuff. So when I met Matt, it was amazing because we were able to leverage some of the kind of context within his network. And like I said, we've been very fortunate to work with some of those players who without Matt, we probably wouldn't have been given the time of day. So it worked out very, very well. I mean, I think the important thing that you bring up is just having the tough conversations are going to come up at some point. You might as well have them in the beginning before that becomes toxic. And I think that's a, it's a really valuable point. Now you've decided to create your materials for lack of a better term and bottle in the United States. And is that something that just, why in the United States? I mean, why can't you

Starting point is 00:20:11 just get this stuff manufactured in Asia somewhere? The actual, not the bottles, but the actual component inside. Is there, why California? Yeah, good question. Uh, so we have two suppliers, one in, one in New Jersey, one in California. So one on each coast. And for us, it was really about having accessibility to amazing manufacturers, but also being able to develop relationships with these people. These are true partners of the brand. We speak to both of them on a weekly basis. We're very involved in development. They're very involved in the progression of the brand. We like to invite them inside the brand walls and make them feel like they're part of the team because they are. And that just felt easier to do with a domestic partner than someone internationally. Yeah, for sure. Now, as your company is growing, you've been on, you've been in business now 22 days, right? Who's counting, right?

Starting point is 00:21:00 Hitting good trajectory. Now, as you guys grow, when do you think you're going to know when it's time to take on a new staff member? And the reason why I ask is there's a lot of people that are in business or as gym owners who get to this point where they're working, they're coaching, let's just say 78 classes a day, but they're working in their business, but not on their business. You are obviously working in, on, and all around. around and your partner i assume is as well how when do you know it's gonna be the time to to delegate some stuff out and and potentially hire somebody yeah it's a good question um and something we've thought long and hard about over

Starting point is 00:21:34 the past few weeks uh i think for us the time is or the runway of just you know being a company of two is shortening uh rather quickly and we'll probably look to onboard someone in the in the very near term. But I also think it's important that both Matt and I had firsthand experience in going through all the processes that go into building a brand. So we've done the digital marketing thing. We've worked on how to build a website. We've talked through development, just the two of us. We've worked through supply chain issues. we handle customer service. So we understand how each piece of the pie works and also how important each part of the puzzle is. So that when we interview, when we hire, we can not only give terrific direction to whom we hire,

Starting point is 00:22:18 but also have a really good understanding via empathy of how the process works. And as your first delegate out, what do you think it's going to be? I mean, now that you guys have both seen the full spectrum how the process works. And as your first delegate out, what do you think it's going to be? I mean, now that you guys have both seen the full spectrum of the business, what do you think is the first thing you're going to pull off your plate and why? That's a really good question. You know, I think some of the candidate profiles that we're looking at now is for some junior folks who are just really good athletes who can do a bunch of different things, but who are young and hungry and want to tackle various categories within the business. I don't think I'll ever totally remove myself from one vertical in particular,

Starting point is 00:22:52 but just having some help and some backup to, you know, to go through customer service emails or to help with marketing campaigns because those things are very, very important to us as a brand. But, you know, time is our most finite resource. And, you know, I wish I could do Because those things are very, very important to us as a brand, but you know, time is our most finite resource. And, you know, I wish I could do all those things all day long, but we just can't. Right. Yeah. Finding those good people. And, and so, you know, you, you took on funding. Yeah, we did. So, you know, I don't know how many gym owners necessarily take on funding. I think some of them do, but when you went out and you went and pitched this company, you took on funding. What did you learn from that experience?

Starting point is 00:23:28 Well, you learn quickly how to take no's. How to take no's? Yeah. How many no's do you think you got? Oh, uh, it's a, it's a long list. And some, some groups more than one no, which is great. I would even go back to them. It's like, it's still a no. Um, so that was, uh, that was an interesting process, but you know, the fundraising is a very, it's a tough process. You learn a lot about your business. You learn a lot about yourself. But at the same time, it's been rewarding for us. We've raised about a million bucks. We're looking to potentially raise a little bit more. But it was a very humbling experience. You know, I thought that, you know, obviously, you know, hindsight's always 2020, but you know, I thought that coming from a Bonobos background with some consumer investing with a Stanford network,

Starting point is 00:24:14 that fundraising may be a little bit easier than it would be for others, but it was a, it was a tough process, but I'm excited with where we're at and the supporters that we currently have on the roster. And, you know, we're sprinting 100 miles an hour going forward. So when you're, I mean, I want to dive into that a little bit more though because you're basically, what you're saying is something I try and think about all the time is that no one owes me anything. Totally. Just because you came from a Stanford background doesn't give you, I mean, that's just a piece of the puzzle. Sure.

Starting point is 00:24:38 So as you were going out for this funding process, what could you have done better, you think? That's a good question. I mean, I think that originally I may have gone out a little too early with some of our materials. So we didn't get finished with the full brand building process until about November of last year. So when we were kind of raising our early capital, I was pitching a brand name that wasn't going to be our real brand name. I was pitching a deck that had packaging that wasn't our packaging. And I was really pitching an idea that had no traction. Um, so I think what, one of the learnings that I had from this process is, you know, make sure you have a really coherent story

Starting point is 00:25:21 that is super tight with branding that will appear on the market and then be super diligent about the parties in which you're targeting kind of out of the gates. Because that was kind of spread a little wide, I think, and it becomes very difficult to manage versus saying like, okay, this is the group of 10 or 12 that I'm going to sprint after and here are the questions that they're going to ask and here are my responses for them. And to some extent I had a lot of those things mapped out, but you know, I certainly think there, there were areas that I could have improved upon. Yeah. You might've kind of approached it too soon with some people. I think so. Just taking a little bit more time. I think so. I mean, at this point from a branding perspective, I mean, you have a

Starting point is 00:26:00 very clean story. Hey, I grew up on this street. I had bad skin. I've identified ways to improve that for myself. Now we're going to provide it to other guys who don't think anything about their skincare, but here's a great product that as you said, a plus products for guys everywhere for guys everywhere. I think that's super cool. Wow. That's interesting about the, um, the funding. I've never really thought about it that way. I think when we're looking for funding, I think you just kind of, I mean, we haven't gone out for a funding round, but I would imagine you kind of get eager, right? Especially for you coming out of college, you have this idea, this concept, you want to get at it quickly, but maybe if you had just slowed down a little bit, it would have maybe had less no's, but maybe now you got the right yeses in place.

Starting point is 00:26:40 Totally. Totally. And again, it's a total learning experience, right? And I think where in the early days, I would almost take it personal when I would get a no. They're like, oh, you don't believe in the vision, et cetera, et cetera. What I learned over time is it's almost beneficial to get a quick no. So I can say, okay, thank you for not wasting my time, more or less. Because I would rather now get a quick no than to have someone say like, oh, interesting, let's catch up in a few weeks. And then I ended up emailing that person a few times. Then maybe they get back to me three or four weeks later about scheduling a call for two weeks after that. And it's just a process that drags on. It can be very mentally draining versus now if I get a quick no, like great, like not personal, totally get it. Maybe not a fit for the firm or the person, but now I can go focus elsewhere. Yeah. You know, almost like, uh, as being an employer, when you let somebody go, you tell yourself that this is going to be better for them when you let them go, because it's just not a good fit and long-term is just not going to

Starting point is 00:27:33 work out, but it's still always hard to, to explain that to them, right? That, that, you know, when you fail, fail fast so you can move on. Um, that's, that's, that's interesting perspective that you picked up on yourself. And I think that's something, you know, as the more I get to know you and the longer we've been talking for a while, I think that you're, you're kind of utilizing each experience, this business to kind of like, okay, I learned something from that. Let me catapult that and then develop it. So what's the next step for your brand? I mean, you're putting out, I've used your products. I'm really excited for where this company is going to go. And I think that you, more so than anything, we interact with people on

Starting point is 00:28:10 a daily basis and we want to surround ourselves with people that are authentic to their message. You know, you are what you get, right? You CrossFit, you're a super fit guy. You take care of your skin. I think it's going to be a huge company in the future. What products, I know you have a few products out currently, right? But then what products do you want to get into in the future? What's the plans for your company? Where do you want to go? Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, I think for us, it's really about being a platform approach to men's personal care. So we're not going to be a one product company or even a three product company where we, where we stand today. Um, but really learning, you know, what guys want us to bring to the table. And we can do that from testing. We can do that from, um, customer service surveys, et cetera. Uh, but we, we do have a few products coming out in the near future. We will

Starting point is 00:28:59 have a deodorant. We will have a few hair products, some more face products, et cetera. But really this notion of we could conceivably be the answer for any question this guy has in the bathroom. And I think that becomes really, really interesting because personal care products is a huge category across both men and women. It's almost a trillion dollar business. So to think that we could even take a little snip of that pie is really exciting for us. Yeah. Now, I want to ask you something about social media branding and marketing and things of that nature because you seem to be a little bit more grassroots, create relationships. Relationships will create more relationships, more relationships. I was listening to a podcast about Chick-fil-A.

Starting point is 00:29:44 And one of the things this gentleman said who's the head of marketing there, I thought it was interesting. I want to create more fans. I'm not trying to get more sales. And the more fans you have, then obviously the more sales you'll get. And so for you, when it comes to marketing, what type of strategies are you guys going to implement in a, you know, I mean, as an owner of a business, you're an e-commerce business.

Starting point is 00:30:01 Now we have a brick and mortar, but there's also people listening to this that are e-commerce and brick and mortar. What type of strategy are you implementing? And then why have you chosen that versus other strategies? Yeah. So as a direct to consumer business, we will certainly have some sort of digital presence. I think that is kind of a must have in 2019. But what we talked about earlier is I have no interest in only relying on social media as a channel strategy for us. So what we've done is thought about we're kind of calling IP marketing, which is in-person marketing. So it's getting offline. And that just doesn't mean billboards or direct mail, but it doesn't mean going to a tailgate in college football season and passing out free samples? We want to not only be where our consumer is at, but also where he doesn't expect us to be. So whether it's

Starting point is 00:30:51 passing out free samples at a CrossFit competition, I just got back from the games a few weeks ago where I was there, which was super exciting. We do have a few college campuses we'll visit in the fall to do some similar events and exercises. So I think for me, it's really getting kind of offline where we can actually kind of have a meaningful one-on-one conversation with our consumers where we can actually tell our story. And while those efforts aren't scalable over time, I think for a young brand, the opportunity to create a cult-like following is really developed in person. It's not developed digitally. And if you can get a group of a thousand consumers, let's say, who are just

Starting point is 00:31:31 maniacal about your product, that will be your best marketing engine over time. And I think it's about, again, kind of not just relying on the Facebooks, the Instagrams, the Snapchats of the world, and thinking about what are these other atypical marketing opportunities that we may have and just sprinting at them 100 miles an hour. Dude, I love that. So IP marketing, right? In-person marketing. Whatever happened to just reaching across the table and shaking somebody's hand? I think you're spot on. So you're at the CrossFit Games, you're going to these college footballs. You said a quote, I just want to quote it. It's like being in places that your customer wouldn't expect you to be at. I think that's really unique because on social media these

Starting point is 00:32:08 days, you get a lot of ads for a lot of things and your, your product would be a perfect ad, right? I mean, Hey, have mess of skin or whatever, like need something better. Here you go. But I think the in-person, right. Is just such a, such an interesting take. I love what you said about, um, a new brand, like, so, so scale wise, social just helps so much, right? But as a new brand, you're trying to create this network of a thousand people that are just maniacal about your brand. And as a gym owner, that's what I think about all the time. If I can get a hundred, 200, 300 people to just love us, we're going to continue to grow. Um, and how hard is it to get that many people to love what you're doing? It's not that hard if you're out there personally

Starting point is 00:32:49 connecting with them, but if you're doing it online, it's a lot tougher. Yeah. And I think social media is tough too, because early on you can get, you can entice people to buy the product, but it's kind of like a drug where all of a sudden you start to spend $20 to acquire a customer. Then in three months, all of a sudden it's 25. Then in three months, all of a sudden you start to spend $20 to acquire a customer. Then in three months, all of a sudden it's 25. Then in three months, all of a sudden it's 30. And you keep justifying these efforts. But what if you could acquire customers in Troves for $15 a piece? And you're doing that by meeting them at CrossFit competitions

Starting point is 00:33:17 or meeting them at college football tailgates or at undergrad entrepreneurship programs. Who knows what the vehicle is? But I think people are so married to what's happening digitally that people are kind of missing out on other aspects within the marketing ecosystem that are kind of untapped. And the way that I've thought about marketing to date is it's very circuitous, right?

Starting point is 00:33:40 For the longest time, there were billboards, and then there were direct mail campaignsboards and then uh there were direct mail campaigns and sears owned the catalog business then over time everything moved digital now it's so concentrated digitally that you know what can you do to get offline and get away from the noise to stand out and actually be different you know 10 years ago maybe not even like that that was like the new the new show in town, right. It was to be on Instagram to have a presence, but that's, that's busy now. Um, and it's hard to do and it's hard to do efficiently. So what else can you do? It's a standard though. If your company,

Starting point is 00:34:13 it's a standard, it's like an expectation. You're going to have a Facebook group or whatever for your brand, but what's not the standard is you going out there and creating conversations across the games. I think that's really unique. And I mean, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but has that helped you be able to pitch your company better because now you're getting in front of thousands of people or hundreds of people? 100%. 100%. And we're, we're soliciting real-time feedback. You know, we're having guys like literally smell the body wash and be like, what do you think? Like, Oh, it smells great. Like, that's awesome. Like, I love this company. The branding's great. Like, or, you know, I wish you did X, Y, Z, or that would be cool. Or what about this product? Do you guys

Starting point is 00:34:45 have that in your portfolio? Oh, well, not yet, but that's really great. Thanks for the feedback. So these are real-time conversations you can have that you may never scratch the surface of if you're just deploying money on Facebook and Instagram. It's feedback that is really invaluable to any brand, regardless of what you're doing. And it's free, right? Because you're actually talking to the consumer. Yeah. I mean, what I've picked up on from this conversation so far is, you know, you took, you did your due diligence before you started. You've had the birds and bees conversation with your partner. But I think this marketing piece is really unique and different. And also taking your time for going out for funding was an interesting concept in how you're learning

Starting point is 00:35:21 moving forward. But this marketing piece, I think needs to be said over and over to people because I think even for us, we think about it all the time that everybody has kind of shifted over here, but there's still a lot of opportunities over here. And yeah, I remember making cold calls back at the gym and you get these slips of leads and that was just old school way, right? Yeah. But I will say, and probably analogous to what you're building here, is the power of word of mouth. And we already have amazing input from a lot of our consumers around which products they like. And holy cow, I've never used a face wash before.

Starting point is 00:35:59 This is amazing. And I would imagine with your clients here and your athletes here that, you know, they're going to be your best ambassadors, right? To go attract their three friends or their sister or whomever to come into the gym one day. And it's kind of how you facilitate those conversations in the gym that could really lead to an increased consumer base over time. Yeah. Well, Matt, I got to tell you, man. I mean, look, we've known each other for a while. Starting off as a member, watching you grow your business has been super rewarding for me. I'm

Starting point is 00:36:27 really happy to have you on the podcast. If, if gym owners, coaches, people want to get involved and I would highly, highly, highly recommend, uh, you guys do at least support, uh, Matt with, you know, just try it out. Look, worst case scenario, how much is your product? Uh, our body wash is 14 bucks. You can get a travel kit for $20. So you might get a life-changing product for $14 to $20. Worst case scenario, you don't like it, you email Matt and tell him this product sucks. You can email me directly. Totally fine with that.

Starting point is 00:36:57 So if people want more information about the product, if people want to connect with you personally, what's the best way to do this? Yep. So our website is usehuron.com. My email my email is Matt at use here on.com and use here on U S U R O N nailed it. Nailed it. And use, use, uh, and we're at use here on, on Instagram. So use here on. Yep. And, um, okay. So guys hit up Matt. If you have any questions, concerns, go support them. And, um, dude, I, I am so fired up to watch what you do with your company. And, um, I'm just looking forward to watching it from the sidelines and seeing how it grows. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. It's been fun to grow this far and it's certainly been fun to have you to have you

Starting point is 00:37:38 involved and be on the podcast. All right, guys. Well, Hey, everybody have a phenomenal day and make sure you go check out usepearon.com.

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Barbell Shrugged - Know Your Consumer by Being Your Consumer with Matt Mullenax, Founder & CEO of Huron - Business of Fitness #71

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