Barbell Shrugged - Lessons Training with Rich Froning w/ EZ Muhammad  — Barbell Shrugged

Episode Date: October 20, 2018

Elijah Muhammad, a.k.a EZ Muhammad, is a professional CrossFit athlete, a 2x CrossFit Games Athlete, and Owner of CrossFit Unorthodox. In this episode, we talk about olympic lifting technique for tall athletes, staying relevant as a CrossFit athlete, the business of being a professional CrossFitter, training with Rich Froning, lessons learned from the Fittest Man in History, and more.   Enjoy! - Doug and Anders ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Show notes at: http://www.shruggedcollective.com/bbs_muhammad ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Please support our partners! @organifi - www.organifi.com/shrugged to save 20% @thrivemarket - www.thrivemarket.com/shrugged for a free 30 days trial and $60 in free groceries @OMAX - www.tryomax.com/shrugged and get a box FREE with your first purchase @foursigmatic - www.foursigmatic.com/shrugged  to save 15% on your first purchase @vuori - www.vuoriclothing.com “SHRUGGED25” to save 25% storewide ► Subscribe to Barbell Shrugged's Channel Here ► Subscribe to Shrugged Collective's Channel Here http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Shrugged Collective is a network of fitness, health and performance shows that help people achieve their physical and mental health goals.  Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first Barbell Shrugged podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast. Find Shrugged Collective and their flagship show Barbell Shrugged here: SUBSCRIBE ON ITUNES ► http://bit.ly/ShruggedCollectiveiTunes WEBSITE ► https://www.ShruggedCollective.com INSTAGRAM ► https://instagram.com/shruggedcollective FACEBOOK ► https://facebook.com/barbellshruggedpodcast TWITTER ► http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged

Been to the games what, three times now? Twice. Twice? 15 and 17. Did you really give yourself a concussion like two years ago? No, I didn't get a concussion, but it took my vision, like it distorted and took my vision from me initially. And it freaked me out. Right?

Yeah. You ever pick that up a little higher, put it like right in front of your mouth like that? You could basically kiss it. There we go. There you go. Is the volume good? Look, this is the best part about sitting here. People walk by. This is my assistant coach and his kids.

Cameron. Are all the kids wired and athletic like you are? Man, my boys are out of control, but it's okay. My daughters. He looks super athletic. He is very athletic. I'll show you some videos of him weightlifting, and the kid is – His handshake was no joke. He's very – he watches everything I do.

Yeah. Every little thing, and he mimics it to a T. So when you see him snatching, cleaning, jerk, you're like, oh, shoot, that's easy skid. Yeah. He's solid, man. He loves to run. He's four. Four.

Loves to run, jump, and play and just be active. Yeah. He's about to start sports, and hopefully we can get him in weightlifting. Yeah. And just get him moving, man. You got those things on over there, big man? We're on and rolling. Is that volume good for you?

Yeah. Yeah, you sound good. Killer. We'll take a break halfway through. This will probably be – you got any time restrictions? What time you got to be out here? No, I don't go until 530, so. Okay, we're cool.

It'll probably be about an hour total. That's cool. We got time. Cool. Yeah, rock it. Ready to rock? Ready to rock? Yeah, let's do it.

Welcome to Barbell Shrug. I'm Anders Varner. We're hanging out. The Kill Cliff Granite Games. Just killing it this weekend, to be honest with you, man. We've been hanging out with all the cool people. Thursday night we had a sweet roundtable. Were you part of that?

I was not. Oh, man, that's messed up. Doug Larson's in the house. We're hanging out with EZ, Elijah, Muhammad. Muhammad, yes. Love that, dude. Yeah. How long have you been doing this CrossFit thing?

You've been around so long. Two trips to the games. Yeah, started in 2010. Smashing Rich Broding back in the day. You dude. Yeah. How long have you been doing this CrossFit thing? You've been around so long. Two trips to the games. Yeah, started in 2010. Smashing Rich Froning back in the day. You know. Yeah. Right? Handling business.

Talking shit to that guy. That's how I found out about you. I was like, oh, who's this cat training with Rich? And then he just got bigger and bigger. Yeah, started off with Froning, 2010. Graduated from college. The Tennessee Tech, right? Tennessee Tech University.

Stopped playing basketball. I was going to pursue basketball to go professionally, and my strength coach, Chip Pugh, same kind of scenario. But Rich was like, hey, I think you should do CrossFit. I would love for you to be on the CrossFit faith team and compete for me. And I was like, all right. So you had a strength coach that was actually telling you to do CrossFit? That was a CrossFit believer.

We actually did CrossFit in our strength and CrossFit in our program while I played basketball. That is strange. Yeah. So when we first got in and I became an assistant strength and conditioning coach, he told me, like, hey, don't speak too much of CrossFit when we go to these strength and conditioning conventions and things like that. He was like, just, you know, people aren't too fond of it, and it's okay, but I don't want you to get in an argument or try to defend it.

It's all right. It's just what people believe. But he was more on the side of, I know I'm a strength and conditioning coach, but I need these athletes to be healthy. Like, I want them to prolong life, like what CrossFit is. I don't just want to make them good for their four years here or their term here. It's like you have no idea of how to keep yourself healthy and fit. So he was more of a mentor than a strength and conditioning coach.

He was more of how can I help you in life and get you as good as possible right now for the field or for the court or for your sport. So he kind of was like, hey, you should just do CrossFit and compete on my team. And I was like, all right, let's try it out. I'll give it a go. And I went to – I think it was sectionals at the time. It was sectionals. And we went on team to sectionals.

And I was like, this is amazing. Like people were like – that was the first time I saw like a handstand pushup. It was the first time I was introduced to like a squat snatch. Right. Yeah. It was a lot of that challenging at first. Like stereotypically basketball players are a little bit taller you're a taller guy a lot of times basketball players have that poor ankle mobility for a variety of reasons like neither one of those things being tall or having poor ankle mobility which you very

well may not uh don't work very well for doing things like squat snatches especially like your first time out the gate so did you pick those things up really really really quickly or is that really difficult for you? No, it took me a while to get those things, a pretty long time. So it's hard to explain, like, how long is because ever since I've been doing CrossFit, I've been in a gym. Yeah. So, like, I've worked at a gym, ran a gym.

My life was the gym. So, therefore, when I say a long time to other people, it's like it's not a long time, but it's a long time to me because I have all day to practice these things yeah day in and day out like week after week month after month I can sit in the gym and practice these things so when I say a long time I mean probably like six months eight months where it's like right I couldn't fluently squat snatch I couldn't do ring muscle-ups um right I didn't think it's so funny when somebody that's as athletic as you, you're a college basketball player, nobody would look at you and think, like, that guy's not that athletic.

And then you put you on a set of rings, and shit's going crazy. You can't do a muscle-up. I'll tell you this story. 2011 Open came around, and the workout was 60 bar-facing burpees, 30 overhead squats, 10 ring muscle-ups. I remember that. I was like, man, all right, let me – I think I can – man, 30 overhead squats, 10 ring muscle-ups. I remember that. I was like, man, like, all right, let me – I think I can – man. I had just got my ring muscle-ups.

I had just – I was just getting them where I could do them. Yeah. So I'm like, all right, 60 burpees, all right. Like, I used to crush people in burpees when I first started CrossFit just because of basketball, the sprint mentality and the engine that I had and stuff like that. And I got down to 60 bar-facing burpees, like, pretty much not even too far behind Rich. Like, we were, like, not too far away from each other.

Got to the barbell. It was 115 pounds, if I'm correctly. I couldn't even snatch it. So I had to clean it, put it on my back, get my hands adjusted, get it overhead. And that workout, I only got four overhead squats. I was overhead. In that workout, I only got four overhead squats. I was fried. So Rich came back to me, and he was like, hey, he gave me some – what are the all-white Adidas lifters with the wooden bottom?

Yeah, gotcha. Gave me some lifters. And I was actually lifting in wingtip church shoes, like dress shoes. Okay. They had an elevated heel. Yeah, so that was what I had. The wingtips for the Oli shoes. Yeah, for the Oli shoes. That. They had an elevated heel. So that was what I had. The wing tips for the Oli shoes. Yeah, for the Oli shoes.

That's a new one. And I had played around in those just so I could find that position. He gave me some lifters. I redid the workout. I got through the 30 overhead squats, I think. Yeah, I got through the 30 overhead squats with 10 seconds left. I was too fried to even try ring muscle I was like I'm done I'm shot but I went from only doing four to getting

all the overhead squats I did them in sets of threes um when I did three dropped it took a deep breath power clean back up put on my back did three so it's like almost like an e-mom. Yeah. But I got through the 30, and then I was like, I can do ring muscle-ups. I got to do this again. I can finally do ring muscle-ups. And I've never done ring muscle-ups fatigued. I had only done them when I first came in the gym. I was warming up fresh, and I would get one, then maybe chain two together. But it was like, in my mind, I thought I could do them.

I did that workout a third time, finished the overhead squats with two minutes left, and couldn't do them anymore. And I was like, okay, this is way different than I thought. Yeah. So that's when it was just like, okay, it's time to like train. Yeah, you got to start training now. It's time to put in the time. Were you a lot thinner back then coming out of basketball before you started doing CrossFit?

I was 165. And how tall are you? Six foot. Wow. That's lean. Yeah. I was 165 pounds, maybe 170, 180 on roster. Yeah.

Always add five pounds. Yeah. When you were doing – did you have any strength conditioning before college? No. I didn't lift weights. I always thought – You kind of only know about this from the CrossFit angle. Yeah, so that's why I'm such an advocate and believer of CrossFit.

In high school, I didn't lift weights. It was only pretty much for football players. Only football players lift weights. And I used to always say, if I'm faster than you, I'll just go around you. I don't have to go through you. I'll just go around you. I was quicker than most people and more agile and stuff like that. So I never lifted weights because I thought it was like a joke.

I was like, you want to get stronger because you're not faster than me. Was the program, like I guess kind of the way that CrossFit is done as a sport, was it different than the way that you guys were doing it to train for basketball? Or was it like we're taking everything off the floor or were you guys just doing hang cleans or hang snatches oh no no so for basketball for football was different for basketball we took everything from the floor but we didn't snatch he would allow us to take the bar from the floor and do push press so we did a ton of push presses we still bench press we didn't squat as much and the only reason I don't think we squat as much is because

once I became the strength and conditioning coach over men's basketball, I found out how much they dictate what he's doing. Right. And that's when I was just like, okay, like I play basketball. I'm your former athlete. Just trust me. Yeah. Like I've learned from him, but I got it.

So I had stayed that summer and trained and started doing CrossFit. And I just felt my legs getting stronger and my body picking up some weight. Yeah. And I went back when I became a strength coach. I was like, listen, just let me train them. And the strength coaches, I mean the basketball coaches were like, whatever you want to do easy, do it. Get up.

Like go. Like take them. And literally we snatched from the floor. We taught the squat snatch. They squatted probably three times a week, twice a week. They were doing a ton of, like, wall balls and just, you know, more slow and explosive to the Metcon type, you know, where it's just like I want you to squat down

and throw this ball as high as possible. Right. And then reset, rest 25 seconds or 30 seconds and redo it again. Yeah. We got into doing a lot of that. Still, Chip Pugh was the mastermind behind it, but now he was able to do whatever he wanted because he had an athlete that was an actual, like, I actually went through it and showed improvement.

Yeah. He had someone that was now playing sports under him as an athlete to come into CrossFit and see the drastic improvement that he's made. So now the coaches have me there. All the athletes, I was like the captain on the basketball team. All the athletes looked up to me. And so now it's like whatever you want to do.

So now he was able to actually program for these athletes. They were like CrossFitters. And, dude, I mean like verticals went out the window. I was about to ask about that that was my next question so like vertical jump being so important for the sport of basketball did your vertical jump go up after you

retired from college basketball having done a bunch of CrossFit, trained your legs, trained so much explosive stuff My vertical was 36 inches which is really fucking good by the way 36 inches my junior year 37 my senior year so by the time fucking good, by the way. 36 inches my junior year. That's baller. 37 my senior year. So by the time I was a senior, I was 37 inches.

I became a strength and conditioning coach. I want to say we put 15 to 17 inches as a team on our verticals. Wow. After that year at CrossFit. I mean, like I said, Coach P was the mastermind. He let me program and he let me dictate what they do in season and out of season based off of how i would feel because i was still training with them a lot i was still working out with the basketball team um but he was he he was able to just do crossfit he was able to like hey we're gonna learn crossfit we're gonna teach him how to squat snatch we're gonna go through the mechanics

of how to squat snatch and how to move and i had took my level one my crossfit weightlifting and he was just like i feel comfortable with you taking over and you know just work with them and dude it just I mean like everyone's vertical just went out of the went out the roof three years later or like yeah four years later my vertical is 41 inches now still dude look at you I'm pretty sure still baller yeah and I always wondered that when like anytime you'd be working with athletes and they wouldn't let them take it from the floor, or I even worked with some football players where they wouldn't even let them catch it in the front rack. All they wanted them to do was jump with the weight as if they were cleaning it

and then pull it as high as they could. And I would always just be like, man, even if you don't like the movement, the amount of athleticism and connectivity that you need to make the complete movement happen. Yeah. And I taught, we taught a lineman from the Chargers how to do a squat snatch. And he weighed like 340. And it was like watching him snatch 225 from the ground was like the coolest thing I've ever seen because he was such a giant. And it took him so long to get his arms that high

and just the amount of mass moving around. But, dude, once he got on it, he was like, holy shit, you can feel this thing moving. You can feel your body. I was like, why don't they just teach this movement to people? The kinesthetic awareness that it teaches and through the full movement is just amazing. So, like, just imagine if you have, like, a football player, right?

He's super explosive, super aggressive, strong, and just learns how to move his body through space really well at his weight. Yeah. You know, he's going to be like, hey, listen, in the offseason, I'm going to go do weightlifting. In the offseason, I'm going to make it to the Olympics. Like, you know what I'm saying? It's like, just imagine, like, you know, some guy from the Dallas Cowboys, and he's competing in the Olympics in the offseason or something

because he has that ability to move that well. But then think about when he comes back on the field. Like, you know, like, I don't care who you are. Like, gymnasts are the most phenomenal athletes of the world, right? Because they just can move their body through space really well. So you take a gymnast and put them in any sport, they find a way to catch on quickly because they know how to move their body well. And you can't go the other way.

You can't be like, I'm a really good football player. I'm going to go be a gymnast. You're like, what? You're going to look like a fucking child. So that's the beauty of it because you try to talk to CrossFitters and you're like, hey, you're super strong and that's great, but you can't. Like if you don't learn the technique, you don't get the strength. But if you have the strength, that doesn't mean you have the technique.

Yeah. So, therefore, there are a lot of guys in CrossFit that are bigger than me and pound for pound and load for load stronger than me. But if your movement is going to crumble, I'm going to get you. Yeah. It's just a matter of time. Like, you know, Matt Frazier is going to get you because he's too efficient. Yeah.

He's movement. Ben Smith is too efficient. He's moving. Ben Smith is too efficient. You guys were the first people at Cookville or at Tennessee Tech that were moving really well all the time. Yeah. When you watch you guys, or Rich specifically, because he was the guy winning all the time. You just look at him and you're like, he's not even working hard. Yeah. He just moves so much better everyone else is dealing with shitty shoulders and banged up everything and like just pushing barbells and we're like oh no they they move really well over there man listen so coach pew was my background

of coaching is really good like i really believe that the people that were in my life helping me coach and learn were phenomenal. They were really good coaches. I'm just a product of that and then finessed it a little bit. I'm going to add my own little twist to things and teach. Coach Pugh is a huge guy on

movement and mechanics and stuff like that. If anybody goes to Cookville and trains at Ridge, you just – don't – just shut up. Just don't talk. Just work out, watch, and just move. Yeah. Like the guy moves so well.

Yeah. And it's just – It's crazy that he finished like 10th in the Open this year. Oh, he probably – I'm not going to speak for him, but he probably doesn't really care anymore. No. Right. I mean, but that's the thing. That's the thing. Oh for him, but he probably doesn't really care anymore. No. I mean, but that's the thing. That's the thing.

Oh, yeah. He doesn't really care anymore, and he's still finished 10th. Yeah. Like, he's going – he's 100% committed to this team thing. He's got kids. He's got family. He's got – like, Rich Froning, the business. Yeah.

And, like, oh, yeah, I'll just take 10th. Yeah. And you're like, wait a second. You're not even, like, really trying anymore. Like, you're only worried a second you're not even like really trying anymore like you're only worried about the one weekend a year and you still took 10th yeah he's probably over the open he's probably well over that yeah he always looks so relaxed especially like when the event starts like the clock goes off like he's just like his body just moves into it like totally like stress-free it appears what he when you train with that guy, though, how many years did you train with him?

Just two. I was there 2010 to 12. And you guys were both strength coaches at the college at the time? Yeah. And just let me put on the record so that he hears this. I was a strength coach first. He followed me on board. There you go.

He wanted to be my training partner. When did the competition piece like really catch on though that you were that was like this is this is the thing i have to do so funny that you asked because rich wouldn't let me compete rich rich was like you got enough competition here you don't need to go out and do these all these local competitions reason being is because if i go do local competitions who am i gonna ask to come with me rich if rich comes with me he does a little competition if someone beats him, everything's jeopardized. Like, you know, like the kind of reputation is jeopardized.

Now he's putting himself at risk of more injuries, stuff like that. So, you know Derek Robinson? Another name. D-Rob. He's from Franklin, Tennessee or Tennessee area. Right. I remember D-Rob, but I haven't heard that name in like five years. Yeah, yeah.

So, back in the day when we trained. I'm from Memphis, Tennessee. Gotcha. So, we went out to Cookville a couple times like five years. Yeah. Yeah. So back in the day when we trained. I'm from Memphis, Tennessee. So we went out to Cookville a couple times and all that. Yeah. I remember that, dude. So D Rob is funny because he was like, hey, man, you need to go compete. And I was like, man, Rich won't go with me. He's like, just come to my competition.

I'm hosting a local comp. Come do it. You should do well. You know? And I was like, all right, whatever. It can't hurt. Whatever. You know, I can't beat Rich.

I know this. I haven't beat him yet. I train with him every single day. Every single workout he does, I do. And I just can't beat him. Yeah. I can give him a push. And in certain workouts, in my mind, I take off out the gate just to maybe get ahead

and pray to God I can hold on. But I'm like, I can't beat him. But I wonder if I can beat some of these other guys. Like, I wonder if I can compete with the field. And I went to his competition and and won and it was some uh pretty good programming pretty good events and stuff like that um and i won and i was like okay i'm not bad like i'm not a bad athlete i don't lose every day yeah just because my training partner is the best in the world so uh i went there i ended up winning that competition

and then it just sparked something where i was like just i'm gonna go i'm gonna go do every competition and i started winning money and i was like okay yeah money's a real thing i tell people all the time like my favorite when it comes to money is matt frazier that dude showed up i was like i could just make a little little grocery money doing this. I'll say this. People say they love doing things because they love doing it. Well, I love taking care of my family. So therefore, I love making money. Because if I make enough money, my family can live their life where they're comfortable and don't have to worry about things.

CrossFit was the sport. I love doing CrossFit because it's general fitness and it's helping people and it helped me. But I make money. So I'm going to keep doing it. If I don't make money, I'm not doing CrossFit. I have a friend that interviewed you at the CrossFit Games in which you made a mistake that cost

you an event win and she interviewed you about the mistake at the Games. At regionals? At the games. And there was something happened, and you took second or third or fourth or something, and there was an amount of money that you made a mistake, and you did not make that amount of money. And she came back to me, and she was like,

oh, they talk about money down there. She was like, that's a real conversation. Like all of this stuff that everybody thinks is happening where it's like, ah, the love of CrossFit. No, no, no. She was like, it's fucking real in there. And they talk about winning money. That's it. It's real athletes doing real things for, yes, they love it.

For money. Yes, they love it. But you can love things a lot. But once you start getting paid, you can love it and make money on the back end, which is a really good thing. That's the plus side, right? It's like I already love what I'm doing, but now I'm making money doing it. Phenomenal.

I love podcasting. I love talking to people. Well, this is the thing, though. I always say, like, if it doesn't saying like if it doesn't make dollars doesn't make sense it's like of course yeah like you know and if i was by myself and it was just me i may do crossfit just for fun like you know whether i made money or not but it's not just me yeah so because of the situation and because of the circumstances things have changed so therefore if i am working at a bank i'm gonna enjoy working at the bank yeah because i make am working at a bank, I'm going to enjoy working at the bank because I make money working at the bank.

So there's nothing I'm going to get into where it's just like, oh, I hate my job. It's like if I hate my job, it's probably because it's not paying me anything that I need. So it's like, well, then I'm not going to do that. I'm going to find something that is going to pay me well, and then I'll start loving it. Yeah. Like, I don't know. It's just a little bit of a different outlook for me. A lot of people are like, you ask some people, and they're like, oh, I would do this if I didn't get paid.

And I was like, that's stupid. Yeah. You know? It's too hard. Like, I do things like go on vacation and not get paid. That's fun. That's the time of leisure. But I wouldn't just travel the world all day long without making money.

Yeah, I think it's also, though, a way that you carry yourself and your training. Like, it matters. There is a thing at the end that you have to get to. For sure. Like, you have to make it to the games. Yeah, for sure. And I was just talking to the kid on my team.

I was like, what's $130,000? I got $132,000. What is that, what's 130,000 followers? I got 132,000 followers. What is that? It's like you can take it two ways. You can be a dick about it because you got this many followers, and it can mess your mind up, and you can think you're somebody that you're really not. Or you can use it as an influence and accountability.

Have 130,000 followers. That means they're following me looking for something, whether it be a way, whether it be, you know, like how to lift, whether it be just a little motivation during the day. So it's going to hold you accountable. So it's like, okay, I'm not making direct money from this, but the accountability keeps me working out, keeps me training, keeps me positive, and keeps me in a good light and energy, you know.

So it's just things like that where it's like it's not direct income, but it plays its factor so that I can be a high-caliber athlete, so I can push to get back to the games and then, therefore, make money or do things like that. When was the first trip to the games? 2015. 2015. 2015.

Yeah. The first trip. Where did you finish? 16th. That's solid. First trip. It was first trip. Where'd you finish? 16th. That's solid. First trip. It was all right. It was all right.

I'm not going to – listen, I was just happy to be at the games. Yeah. Like, you know, when you put a lot of time into something, when you are training with someone that is going pretty much no matter what. Yeah. And, you know, you got to go there, swallow the humble pie, and support your friends and be there for your family and friends and stuff like that.

It hits you where it's like, God, like, why am I not here? Like, you know, like, I'm putting in the time. I am working day in and day out. I am training. I am getting better. How am I not qualifying for the CrossFit Games? So, when I got there, it was just everything. Like, I just was like, this is everything.

Regardless if I finish dead last or if I finished in the top of the pack, I was just happy to be there. I was happy to finally have that satisfaction of like this paid off. Like I got this. And when we talk about money, that's a side product. The story you're talking about is it was a sandbag event. And 2015 we had the throwback event from like 2010 or something like that we had to do the same yeah that's right and everybody's dragging like two three sandbags i'm like you know what

i'm just gonna take one at a time and just haul ass like i'm just gonna move and so i was just grabbing one bag just trucking it upstairs running back down grabbing it back and i end up beating most people out i got third in the event well that was before the last heat. Matt Frazier comes in and beats my time by like a minute, 30 seconds. Comes back. We're downstairs, right? And he comes down and he was like, thanks for the G. And I was like, what? What is he talking about?

He talks shit better than all of them too. Oh, bro, listen. Me and Matt used to talk some smack. Me and Matt used to go at it. But it was all in good because we were teammates and stuff like that. And Alex Anderson, too. The Anderson boys are pretty. They get hyped up a little bit.

But he's like, thanks for the G, bro. And I was like, what are you talking about? And he was just like, oh, I bumped you to fourth. I beat you in that event. So he took third, and I was supposed to get $1,000 for third place. And he bumped me to fourth, so he got the $1,000. I was like, you mother – like, don't you have enough? Like, leave me alone.

Let me come in and collect my little check so I can get out of here, man. Let me pay for my own travel. That's it, man. That's what it was, though. That's the event we were talking about. And I was just like, oh, don't worry. I'm not leaving here empty-handed, bro. Yeah.

The strength events, though. You're a big dude to be moving weights around that you move around. Yeah, man. How long does it take? I mean, Olympic lifting is not an easy thing for you. Yeah. Is that something you still focus on or is that? Yeah, I have a seminar. I teach a weightlifting seminar. It's called the Lift Heavy Often Seminar.

And we go over squat mechanics, snatch and cleaning jerk, just teaching the mechanics and refining the proper receiving position in the squat, stuff like that, just the basics due to people's torsos, legs, whatever, what you should be doing, how you should be moving versus what someone told you to do or you saw someone on Instagram do. So we just break down the snatch mechanics and teach people the fine bar pathway, right? It's like you'll be most efficient this way, everyone, not just you, but whoever else is lifting.

So I do that, and basically weightlifting was like, okay, I'm explosive and I can jump high, so I should be a good weightlifter. And when you're longer longer people think it's harder but it's actually to me i don't want to say it's easier but you have more levers to use you have longer levers to to manage load so if you know how to use them you use them in your benefit you know someone that is not as proportioned because they're shorter they may have longer arms or longer legs and their torso may be short or a longer torso and their legs may be short. So then they have to find out what's the best advantage for them.

But for me, with longer legs and a longer torso, I can stretch out my posterior chain pretty much and then fire it off. Yeah. And then having the athletic basketball background helps a ton just with the jumping and being explosive. So once I started weightlifting, and, of course, Froning was like a barbell fanatic. He loved lifting weights and stuff like that.

So once I started lifting and dissecting it and understanding it more and then took a few steps back, it was probably like maybe like a year or so. I took a few steps back, started talking to weightlifting coaches and getting a little more knowledge and stuff like that. I just started implementing it in my training where I was just literally using a barbell most of the time. And then I was like, oh, I'm going to build up on snatch, make sure I record a video so I can have something to post.

But I was using a barbell for like years where it was just movement and mechanics and just pounding them. Well, now that you've been doing this for a number of years, what are you working on these days? Like what's the main focus? What are the weak links in the chain that you're trying to bring up? Just aerobically, man. I'm just running a ton.

The 5K wasn't a full 5K, I don't think, but I did it in 18 minutes and just it felt really easy, like super. Like I got done and I was just like I'm not even really winded, like I should have, maybe should have pushed a little harder, but you train for something to get better at it and you're still, your mind's still a little scared to go out the gate and you know, I let everybody line up in front of me

and I was in the back and I'm like, I got done and I was like, I should have stood right in the front and just took off on everybody. Like I should have stood right in the front and just three, two, one, go and just went knowing that I've worked on this and I built this capacity but just like at the games or any other event I get nervous or not nervous but I just get

in my head where it's like keep your composure, like stay calm and play your game. You know when it's like I should just be going all out I don't want nothing to lose. Have you always been someone who starts events really hard and then like you don't finish as strong lose. Yeah. You know? So. Have you always been someone who starts events really hard and then, like, you don't finish as strong as you start or vice versa? No. I've been, like, frowny. Like, I know exactly what I should be doing and how I should be moving the

entire time. Yeah. And so when I first started CrossFit, I was that guy. Like, three, two, one, go. Like, out of here. And then as I got better in CrossFit, it was just like, I'm just going to start off slow and chip at it and catch guys where I know I can catch them

and strategically move what's comfortable and what's good for me. But it's just that I've been working on running so much and training it so much. I got a marathon next month. It's going to be my first one, first of many. I'm going to do a few marathons and a few halves, and I'm not going to train from them. I'm just going to go run them. Nice. i feel like that's one thing that's taken over maybe not taken over but i see a lot more now over like maybe the last year or two is people are just sitting on air bikes

all day long and just building this like ever since henshaw came around yeah ever since henshaw came around jason kala Smoked Everybody in the Yeah that big dude In the In the row Whatever And then like A few run events

The log carry or whatever In 2013 Ever since That happened People were like Okay I just sit on this bike All day long

That big motherfucker Can win all the endurance events He's on to something Yeah he's Yeah so I've spoken with Henshaw And I'm a huge Just like You know I don't want to i don't want to waste anyone's time so he was like i'll program for you you know we can work together and i was like i know like i know you'll do it for

me but like my schedule is just different from everybody else you know like i got four kids i got a gym and yeah how do you manage all that it's it's rough man yeah it's it's really rough like somebody came to me this today was like, do you sleep? And I was like, no, not really. In reality, like, getting back to the games is a huge thing. Yeah. And the goal of every year is to go to the gym or go to the games. But with all of those things, you own a gym as well.

Yeah, we own a gym. You own a gym. Four kids. Four kids. Married. Yeah, married. You got some things going on. For sure. Trying to be a professional athlete.

Yeah. You know, so. What's the reality of winning the games? I never care to win the games. I watch Froning and immediately I was like, I just want to go. I don't really care to win. He was, the Froning that everyone sees now is drastically different from the 2011-2012 Rich Froning. 2010 Rich Froning, drastically different.

And he is just willing. He is so willing to sacrifice anything to accomplish the task that he wants to accomplish. It's scary. It's kind of like, bro like you need to slow down like you know but i mean i was beside him training i was beside him pushing and he he still he still he he tries to balance it really well and then he was it was he did good but he didn't i don't know it's hard to it's hard to explain because rich is always fun he's always been fun he's always been hanging out with the guys and doing things.

But it was just like, I don't know, just like the stress levels of competing was different from what I see now. And, you know, I'm not around him anymore as much. But when I see him now on, like, social media and, like, he's in Europe right now, I never thought Rich would leave Cookville. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's just different now. And he just seems happy. He seems okay. Like, you know, like he has kids.

So, now he's in dad mode. He's playing all the time, nonstop. It's like every time I see him talking, he's smiling. You know, like it's just I'm so happy for him. But, like, I saw that in the beginning and I was like, I don't care to win. But if I'm putting in this much time, I've got to at least get there. Yeah. But that's all it was.

Yeah, that's like the driving factor for a lot of those. I mean, if you're going to be the best in the world, everything is blockers. I put one in front of mine, one of the best in the world. Yeah. I put one in front of mine. But it's very humbling, and it's very tough. To get to the CrossFit Games is extremely tough. With all the changes right now, I mean, I don't know.

I'm excited for the new changes because I just like change. I'm always up for some change and stirring stuff up. I'm always in for it. So I'm excited for a new change to see how it pans out and how it goes. But just getting there, man, being one of the best in the world, you've already made a statement. You've already made a huge statement, whether it's a fluke, whether it's just a good year for you,

or whether you just came out of nowhere and accidentally qualified. This is a statement to be amongst those people at the CrossFit Games because they are really good. Yeah. We're going to take a break. I want to talk about the changes. I want to know what the hell goes on in an athlete's brain when all this stuff happens. Because I don't think most people are like you that enjoy changes.

Well, most people probably haven't played collegiate sports either. Or sports at all. So, you know, if a ref makes a call, there ain't nothing you can do about it. You can yell, argue, and mother F all you want to. The call is made, brother. You better keep moving. So, the call has been made. These changes are happening. Yeah. It's time to just buckle down and get ready for them. Right on. want to the call is made brother you better keep moving so the call has been made these changes

are happening yeah it's time to just buckle down and get ready for them right on we'll take a break we'll be back in a second yeah. .. . . . . .

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. ...... Brandon Phillips really was like one of the first people that I thought was like really strong. Like just like real man strength going on with that guy. He was doing all the outlaw stuff. The outlaw went and made all the money for like a year and a half. That dude was selling out seminars like left and right, coming up with crazy ass King Kong workouts. Rudy. Rudy.

He had a big old beard. CrossFit. I think it was Old had a big old beard. CrossFit. I think it was Old Town CrossFit in Virginia. Then shit got weird. Shit got weird. Are we recording all this? We are. We sure are.

Shit got weird, Rudy. What up, Rudy? Why'd shit get weird? I never met Rudy. I don't know. I bumped into him when we talked. Pick that up a little bit right in front of your mouth. Oh, yeah.

So I was saying I bumped into Rudy, and we talked a little bit. It was cool. He was a cool guy. I'm sure he's still in the same place hanging out. Yeah. Teaching strength and conditioning. Welcome back to Barbell Shrug. Hanging out at the Grand Games with EZ Muhammad.

Man, all the new changes going on. What's going on in the world of the athlete? What's going on in your brain with all this stuff? Yeah, I just usually tell people change is good. I like change. I'm always for change. Do you think it needed to be changed? I don't think it needed to be.

I knew regionals was going to get out of here. I knew that for – I've been saying that for a while. Like it's got to be sucking CrossFit dry. I knew regionals was going to get out of here. I knew that for – I've been saying that for a while. Like, it's got to be sucking CrossFit dry. Right. At this point. 14 events, something like that? Yeah.

Like, over the course of a month every year? Yeah, in three different countries. Right. Like, you know what I'm saying? It's like, it's got to be sucking them dry. Yeah. Like, you know, so I knew regionals was going to get out of here. So, I was like, I kind of guessed that. The way the changes are coming, I never had a clue of how they would change it.

I didn't think they needed to change it, but I'm glad for some change. It's going to stir some things up, make some people think twice about what they're doing and just make the training that much more intense, I guess. Along with that, man, it allows the athletes to become a little bit more valuable to sponsors, to brands. Yeah. You know, like it's like, well, let's get our solid team. Let's find a team that, you know, we're really solid, we really are confident about, and, you know, let's do it that way.

Yeah, I think that the sponsorship thing is really going to play just a massive role. I mean, it plays a massive role already in the funding of all this stuff. But events like this are really going to be able to partner up with some companies that can really give them some fire that now that there's like a long-term plan of this is going to be a thing to get you to the CrossFit Games for a very long time, they can actually start putting some like long-term relationships together, knowing that there will at least be some sort of branding and system built around an event like this.

Are you going to Dubai? Where are you going to try and qualify? I have no clue. Yeah, no one knows. I actually have no clue. Come to Dubai, dude. I'll for sure be at the Granite Games for the 2019. This upcoming season, I really don't know.

Once my wife kind of figures out all the logistics, she'll tell me and then we'll attack it that way. But I don't really think about it. I don't stress out on it. She figures everything out and then she she'll tell me and then we'll attack it that way um but i don't really think about it i don't stress out on it she figures everything out and then she just comes to me like hey we need to do this event you need to go here you do that yeah as far as going to dubai i really i really have been wanting to go to dubai and um just be there uh i've heard really just because it's cool yeah i just heard really good things about you know the community the islam community you know my parents parents were Islam and stuff like that. So, yeah, I definitely want to go there and check it out and take my wife on that trip

and, you know, spend some good time there. So, I don't know. We may end up doing it. We may end up saying, let's go to Dubai and do it. But right now, I'm just chilling. Just trying to get my gym finished. Here comes the wife right now with the wagon. There it is.

All the kids. The other half. The other half, right now with the wagon. There it is. The other half. The other half, yeah. Do you think about, like, as a gym owner, what's going on in the macro level of CrossFit? I feel like when there was significantly fewer gyms, 2010, 2012-ish, I owned a gym, and all the decisions that were made on, like, the macro HQ level really affected the messaging in which we all, like, kind of lived by

and how we sell CrossFit and talk about CrossFit. Does that even affect you in your gym anymore? Or is it just I do what's best for our people? Yeah, I don't think it affects us anymore. I don't think it affects us anymore. I don't think it affects you drastically. Of course it does affect because it affects the message in a whole, right, for CrossFit. But, yeah, I think more people are getting engaged to the brand name rather than exactly what it's for or what it is. And then once they get in, that's dictated by the type of coach and owner you have.

Yeah. So. Were you always going to open a gym? No, no, no. I wasn't. I just opened a gym because of some incidents that happened in my life that just kind of reinsured me to, you know, just kind of go in and open a gym with my wife and, you know, us just do our own thing and not be tied to anyone. Was that prior to having kids you opened a gym?

We just opened a gym like 10 months ago. Oh, nice. Oh, really? Okay. I thought it was long ago. Were you coaching before? Yeah, I've always been coaching. I've always been head coaches at gyms or running gyms, coaching,

stuff like that. So this is the first gym we've ever owned solely ourselves. Very cool. When you left strength and conditioning, like collegiate strength and conditioning, did you just go straight to CrossFit gym stuff? Yeah, it was all CrossFit from there. No athletes anymore.

Well, I mean, you could say they're all athletes, but no. Collegiate type athletes, no. No. Yeah, I just – so when I played sports, I was a very talented athlete that had a really good work ethic. And not everyone's like that in college as we know yeah you know a lot of collegiate athletes are very spoiled very selfish and then you have some that are just die hard work hard with no skill involved they have no god-given

ability and then you have a few that are are both um so i just really fell in love with crossfit because everybody that came to the gym wanted to be there yeah like totally they wanted to be there and i was doing strength and conditioning. And even though these were my friends and these were kids that I was on a team with, it was just like, if you don't want to be here, leave. Like, just get out of here. And it was just too much of like they didn't feel like they wanted to be there, like a lot of the kids.

Yeah. It just didn't feel like they wanted to be there like a lot of the kids. So I got into CrossFit because I just felt like everybody wanted to be there. And they work hard. Yeah. You get a whole bunch of regular people that show up every day and work hard. Yeah. It's a really healthy place to be. It's pretty cool, man. And so, yeah, so that's why I got out of strength and conditioning.

And it was a really good experience. But I just rather do CrossFit. So as soon as I was over, I would just stay strictly CrossFit. When did the seminar start? Around 2014. Around 2014, a guy, me and my wife was talking about how we can, you know, supplement income and some things that happened in the CrossFit community where I was just like, man, like people don't know how to weightlift.

Like this is crazy. Like, you know, I didn't know how to weightlift. No one really actually taught me how to weightlift. Like, this is crazy. Like, you know, I didn't know how to weightlift. No one really actually taught me how to weightlift, but in order to weightlift, it's like, I got to go pay a grand for a seminar or $500 for a seminar to get a certification and teach weightlifting or to learn how to weightlifting. So I was just like, I'm a huge advocate of CrossFit and I believe in CrossFit and that's all I really had is that CrossFit type teaching. So I was like, well, somebody has to step up and do it. Right. So either we can, well, somebody has to step up and do it, right? So either we can take the top games athletes that were gymnasts and say,

hey, go teach gymnastic clinics. You know, I became a barbell guy and people started knowing me for my weightlifting as I started to get into it more and move more and, you know, kind of refine the movement. I started talking to weightlifters and coaches and how to teach it and, you know, what are your sayings? What are the things you say? You know, I did my Olympic lifting course, but, you know,

how would you teach it as a weightlifter, you know? Started to get that knowledge, and then I was just like, I think we should just teach weightlifting seminars. Like, I think I should be the advocate for CrossFit to help them. You know, if they can't do weightlifting seminars and get to all these gyms, maybe some of these gyms can just hire athletes to come in, teach them the movement. And, you know, that's how I can supplement income, make income, and, you know, we can get the word out of basically how to weightlift.

And then it was just some things that I didn't, you know, I was just kind of like, I don't want to say I could teach it better, but I just have a different eye. Yeah. So I was just like, I learned in the CrossFit weightlifting way, and then I learned from weightlifters, and I was like, this is drastically different. Yeah. Like, you're talking to people as if they're weightlifters and they're not. You can't talk to them like that.

Yeah. You know, like the teaching is different. And I was just like, oh, you know, I'm getting into seminars. seminars me and my wife sat down and a guy had called me and was like and this is who really sparked it right because we we had an idea to teach a seminar but we didn't really know what it was going to be so this guy contacted me and was like um hey can you come to my gym and teach people how to weight lift and i was like i never taught anyone outside the gym and this would be my first time and we talked about seminars but it was more like an idea you know so once he caught me he was like yeah I'd like to host it next month and um I was like yeah sure let's do it and so I put together this template and just like started hammering out the I mean

it was like word for so like, it was a seminar seminar. It's like to teach the snatch and clean your squat snatch. Yeah. And people were like leaving because it was so long. I was like really, I was really dissecting and teaching movement. And I sat back and I was like, these people probably didn't really get it because it was so long they were tired we went over so many different pieces of the movement right so

we broke off and did these pieces with a little bit of weight and then came back and then like it was just like so much i was like i gotta dummy this thing down make it as simple as possible so people can get it and then just let people ask questions and fix them as we go. And now it's about four hours, five hours. And, I mean, to me it's phenomenal. Yeah. Like people leave out of those seminars with just – I get emails and messages. And it's fun, like, teaching people and seeing people like that light go off is just cool. Is there a better group of people to teach something to than a freaking CrossFitter? They're so fucking excited to learn.

They are. This guy is going to change my life. If I can PR my snatch, all my problems will go away. EZ's the guy. Hey, listen. You show up and you're just, boom, EZ's going to make my life so much better. All my friends are going to think I'm a little bit cooler. Why?

Five more pounds on the bar. Come to Lift Heavy off the seminar, man. He's signed up. How often are you doing them? Right now we're not doing them too much just because of the gym, and right now we're under construction and getting some stuff finished and finalized. And then we've only been in Iowa for ten months, so we're still getting kind of acclimated.

Oh, you started just as soon as you moved there. You thought you'd move the whole family and open a gym all at once. My wife started it. I didn't start anything. I didn't want to open a gym right now. It was just kind of like I'm glad we did for sure. But I didn't want to open a gym right now. I just wanted to kind of chill for a few months,

probably like five to six months of just training at different gyms, hanging out. But she made some really good points. Like, hey, we just moved here. You go to this gym and train. You go to this gym and train. And then you open a gym. It's kind of wrong.

Like, it's kind of, you know, and I was like, I totally get that. And she was like, so you can, we can not open a gym and you can train in a garage for six months, which you're going to be bored out of your life. You know, you're not going to have anyone to work out with and train with. And then you don't get the coach, which that's what you live by. That's what you live by. In order to train, I have to coach.

In order to coach, I have to train. It's a balance for me. I do both of them just as much. And she was like, I don't think you should go train at other people's gyms and then open a gym like five months later, like after you've hung out with their members and you've, you know, talked to them. So responsible.

Yeah. That was like the thing that happened all the time. Your coaches would just leave and go open a gym right down the road. Yeah. So I was like, I totally understand that. Chopped the membership. Happened to me many times. Chopped the membership, $10.

Yeah. Look at how much better of a deal it is. I'm going to take my friends with me. It's like, I don't know. So out of respect, I was like, yeah, you're right. Let's just open a gym or I can sit here and train by myself for the next few months. Is there also a component of that,

knowing that your time as a professional CrossFit athlete making real money has a short shelf life, you've got a couple more years component of that, knowing that your time as a professional CrossFit athlete making real money has a short shelf life, you've got a couple more years type of thing, and then you need to have something to move on to? Well, my CrossFit career has a shelf life because I have kids. I'm not going anywhere. If I want to be here for the next 10 years and compete this way, I'll be able to. I feel like the best thing about CrossFit

is we have the master's division. The best thing about it is when I get 35, I have my own division. I can continue on. But as far as being a competitor, it doesn't ever leave you. Like, your mind does not change about being a competitor. So, when I hit – I'm 30 now. When I hit 35, I'm still going to think I can compete with these young guys. And I'm still going to come to Granite Games and sign up in the open division

thinking I can compete. And if my body can maintain it, that's great. If it cannot, you know, you readjust. But as far as the shelf life, it's based off of what you want to be. Like, I mean, don't get me wrong, it's going to be rough to compete with 25 and 22-year-olds, but you can still compete. Like, it doesn't mean you can win. You can still compete.

And at the end of the day, what does a sponsor need? He needs someone with a following, someone that has an influence on people. Boom, I'm good. So, therefore, I got 130,000 followers working to 150,000, working to 200,000. So when I post something, I have an organic following that is going to buy your product or that is going to do something for you where you get a benefit for sponsoring me. So whether I'm 30 or 35, if I got the mentality of a competitor and I'm ready to rock and roll, it's money.

And I think sponsors are starting to see that. You know, sponsors are starting to see that because it's like, well, we started off with EZ and EZ is still with us five years later, right? It's like, is he still valuable for us? Well, we created EZ's shirt and that thing gets off the shelves. You know, we designed a shoe for EZ and it's selling. You know, EZ's at this booth and people are still coming to take pictures. It's like the value is still there, right?

And the following is still growing. So I think they're starting to see that. And I'm going to say one company that to me does a good job with is No Bull they have a core group they seem to do a phenomenal job I don't think they ain't going nowhere they have a core group where it's like that's their team

so for me the reason why I'm not going to be competing is because I have other obligations he has gymnastics, he's going to start playing soccer my daughter plays soccer. She is running cross country. She does gymnastics. Like, you know?

Right. So it's like instead of spending this time training, I'm trying to go sit in the stands and be dickhead dad yelling at people. You know, telling the coach, like, hey, put my son in the game. What's going on here? You know? So it's just the other obligations. But I feel like athletes just, I feel like they put that on themselves when they're just like, oh, I got like two years and then I'm too old. It's just the other obligations. But I feel like athletes just – I feel like they put that on themselves

when they're just like, oh, I got like two years and then I'm too old. Well, you should run your seminar on everything you just said because I don't think many people get that. I don't think they understand their value as an athlete and how to market themselves and what the value is to being an athlete in front of all the people. For sure. I don't want this to sound wrong, but let's take a Brooke Ince, for instance.

Phenomenal athlete, hardworking, puts in the time, puts in the effort. Is she going to get back to the games? I don't know. I hope she does. You know what I'm saying? Is she going to win the games? I'm going to tell you no. I don't think she's going to win the games.

As far as marketing, you better get that girl on your team. Yeah. Because she has a very strong organic following that is going to buy anything that she comes out with. Any T-shirt, any shorts, any socks, anything that she has her name tied to, you have an organic group of people that are like, boom, I'm hitting the shelves and I'm getting this. Yeah. And I have a teenage girl at my gym that's like that. Brooke Ince puts her name on to, you have an organic group of people that are like, boom, I'm hitting the shelves and I'm getting this. Yeah.

And I have a teenage girl at my gym that's like that. Brooke Ince puts her name on anything, that girl's going to buy it. So it's like, okay, she's not an athlete. She's getting older. She's injured. But her following is not stopping. It's not stopping growing. So I just look at it as like athletes put that kind of thing on themselves because they're

like, oh, well, it's harder to compete. It's harder to compete because the field's getting younger. But you can still compete. You don't have to compete at the games. Granite Games is just as valuable, especially when they're giving out $8,000 to $10,000. You know what I'm saying? When you go to these local competitions

and have a better chance of making more money than going to the CrossFit Games. Yeah. I remember two years ago, I think Granite Games gave away 25 Gs. Yeah. That's a lot of money. I think it was $25,000. That same year, Wadapalooza did 30, like, for first place. So I was like –

Yeah. So what's going to happen when Frazier shows up to all the events and wins all of them? People just start losing more. Because of $50,000 at the prize pool at the end. I'm going to tell you right now, Frazier's not going to do that. No, definitely not. He's too smart.

For sure. He wants to win the championship every year. He's not going to do that. And if he did do that, he's not going to win the games. It's just hard on your body, dude. It's going to suck the life out of him. Why does your body hold up? You've been at this a long time and staying at the top for a long time.

Try to stay as positive as possible, and positivity brings health. I actually wonder if, like, a lot of people are banged up because you're lifting weights every day. You're inside 85% of all this stuff all the time. But the higher level of CrossFit athlete is actually, like, I want to say, like, a decently healthy person because if you get injured, you're screwed. You don't get to play anymore.

Listen, this bag right here, this Normatech bag has my Normatech, has my Theragun, has cupping, has my compact stem unit, has grasping tools. I have voodoo floss band. Like, I'm prepared. Like, something happens, it's like, ah. You're on it. Like, because, one, I was a collegiate athlete.

So, one, when I sprained my ankle, I went down to the PT room, right? I had to do recovery stuff. We had to do it anyway, right? You had to do it just on a daily basis just to keep yourself strong. So, if you're paying attention when you're doing that stuff, you're like, okay, I know how to rehab. I know how to do these things. So, when I'm going down there, I'm not just down there just laying down,

sleeping with my headphones on, but I'm like, hey, why are we doing this? What's this for? Like, you know, like, well, you have this type of inflammation in your ankle and this is what's happening and your feet sit like this. So, like, you're learning about your body so much. So you're learning about your body so much that it's like, I know exactly how to take care of my body. Like, I know exactly what to do to take care of my body.

So I think a lot of these top athletes, they have a huge team. Like, they have teams of chiropractors, PTs, massage therapists. I mean, everything. Like, you just see them getting so much work done. It's like, if I get hurt, it better be a broken bone. That's the only thing I need to go to a doctor for yeah like you know super cool we interviewed jessica lucero and she's i mean she's got snatch clean and jerk and total american record and uh oh that's badass your son just did the splits middle splits um she's she's got the American record in snatch, clean, jerk, and total.

Oh, wow. And she doesn't have health care. I don't either. It's crazy to me. I don't either. I didn't either for the first, like, year of owning the gym, but that was a different story. But now it's like because that shit's so expensive,

you got to walk around with that bag. It's insurance, man, like insurance. Like what is insurance i'm gonna pay and pay and pay and if i don't need it i just keep paying and paying and paying yeah so therefore that's why i said it better be like a broken bone for these athletes or else they don't need they don't need doctors they're too smart they're too smart she runs around with a bag like that too and they have too big of a team like and you have you're an athlete you have you probably built the connections.

I know doctors that I can call and be like, hey, I need prescriptions for this. I don't have to fill anything out. I don't have to sign anything. I got the prescriptions. He breakdances too? Yeah, he learned that last week. Get it, dude. That's my son breakdancing over here.

He learned it last week from one of our members. I love that. I wish we had the video camera out. My man is killing it. Yeah. It's hot over there. It's a great warm-up right there. Dude.

That a boy. Yeah yeah spit on your head dude um but yeah so it's like you know like you probably built the connections to where like you know doctors you know you know these top people that you can get stuff but if i don't have a broken bone like my wife and my kids have health insurance because if something happens to them we need to go to a doctor yeah if something happens to me i we need to go to a doctor. Yeah. If something happens to me, I'll fix it. Yeah. Unless it's a broken bone. If it's a broken bone, we'll bite that bullet and pay that tax.

Yeah. The life of the athlete. The lifelong athlete. Right on, man. This is super fun. Where can people find you? So my gym is in West Des Moines, Iowa, CrossFit Unorthodox, CrossFitUnorthodox.com for all our stuff like that.

And then you can check me out on EZMuhammad.com, just letter E, letter Z, and then Muhammad is M-U-H-A-M-M-A-D. EZMuhammad.com has my online programming on there. It has our schedule. But wait until the very end to talk about the online program. Yeah, I know. That's where it's at. Tell me about it.

So the online programming, I started because there's a lot of people that just really don't know. Like they don't get it. And I started online programming because, of course, one, it was supplemental income. And then, two, it was just a way for me to get my program out and structure what I'm doing so that I have something to follow rather than just kind of ghosting it on a daily basis. But the online program, basically, I've been looking at online programming and following some people and just kind of seeing what the field has.

And people follow online program because they just need something else. They just need a little bit extra or something extra. It's like, what do I do to get to this level? I need something when I'm at home or I need something to follow and stuff like that. So I started online programming because I was just kind of like, people don't know how to program. It's hard. I was like, people don't know how to program.

Like, when I was looking at these programs, I was like, people just, they think they have to program the world to get it through. And it's like, no, you don't. And so there's a lot of things that I did differently where, like, I'm just going to use an example because we were talking about it in the cars. People program a lot of percentage work. And it's like, why are you doing a lot of percentage work and you don't even understand the movement? So therefore, today's strength is five sets of three at 80%, and then three sets of two at 85%. You just told this person to ignore getting their body prepped and ready

to get to 80% so they can lift it. What if this person is not a fluent overhead squatter? It means their 80% is dictated off the percentage. So it's probably not – it's heavy for them, but it's probably not a drastic amount of weight, whatever, whatever. But you just told us you want to do the 80%. So what is my goal now when I come into the gym? My 80% is 225.

What am I going to do? I'm going to put on 135. I'm going to do it. And then I'm going to put on 185 and I'm going to do it. And then I'm going to make the choice to probably say I'm going to start my 80% at 225. I'm going to get my first set done. I just created probably six repetitions good and the

rest of these are maybe iffy because I'm working at 80%. So now, instead of focusing on movement, you're just focusing on load. That is drastically wrong. And you don't know these people. So I know you're programming for the masses i get that but it's like why don't you just do 10 sets of three try to get to 80 don't jeopardize technique for load that's it so now i have probably seven sets eight sets of good

movement before i get to my 80 and i only have to do it once so now i'm focused on the proper jumps building up to this creating good repetitions in my movement before i actually get to this percentage that i'm supposed to be hitting and then the next day you you do the same thing and the next day you do the same thing but it was just that i was seeing programs and it was just like a percentage percentage percentage percentage and it wasn't enough percentage that allowed good mechanics and movement and that's what i focus on in my strength program that's what i focus on in my online program it's like how can i move well and then sneak in a little bit of heavy load yeah right 10 sets of 3 10 sets of 2 whatever it may be you know here's your build-up sets to this and if people are doing that that's great but when you just say yo you got five sets of three at 80 percent

and three sets of three three sets of two at 85 percent you know, two sets of one at 92%. It's like this person is only trying to get to that 80% so they can start their sets. Yeah. Their movement is going to hinder, right? And if their movement is hindering through their programming, what benefit are you actually giving them, right? It's just so I was seeing stuff like that and then along with a lot of like the, I don't know, the Metcons where I was just like, bro, like explain to people. You don't have to give people brutal workouts. Like you don't have to program brutal workouts.

Just tell them this is the type of intensity they need to apply to the workout. Yeah. And once people understand that, you're setting them up to be successful. So my program, I'm saying, like, hey, this is the workout. It's really simple. It's not hard at all. There's usually not really loads. I'm not really telling you what weight to use, like prescribed, right?

And we do the same thing in my gym where it's like I program a workout and people are like, well, what weight do I use? Well, this is the type of intensity you should get out of the workout, so what weight do you think would be good due to how well you can move in this movement? Right? And that's where I felt like in my program I can kind of give that where it's like, hey, you got a 21-15-9. We all know 21-15-9s are supposed to be pretty intense, right?

Yeah. That's the meaning of the 21-15-9, right? But you got an overhead squat and a chest-to-bar pull-up. You got two high-skill movements, right? But you got an overhead squat and a chest-to-bar pull-up. You got two high-skill movements, right? What's the weight? In the description, it says, hey, use the weight that you feel like you can go unbroken without a doubt, mentally and physically.

Mentally and physically? What does that mean? Well, mentally, you don't approach the bar like, okay, this is going to be tough. Like, I got to get myself ready. Mentally, it's like, I can walk to this bar, pick it up any time of the day, and I'm going. Physically, it's like, I'm not going to tax tough. Like, I got to get myself ready. Mentally, it's like I can walk to this bar, pick it up any time of the day, and I'm going. Physically, it's like I'm not going to tax out. Yeah.

Right? Once you can do that, you start choosing your own weights, your own prescribed, and then you start building from there, getting yourself where you need to go. And every now and then I'll throw in workouts where it humbles the field, where it's like, hey, this is that 155. And most people are like, ooh, that's going to be tough. Or, hey, that workout crushed me. Right?

It's like, well, this was the humbling workout. It also makes people have to think a little bit. That's it. But that's what CrossFit is about. CrossFit is the teaching process. That's why we all signed up at the gym. If you walk in my gym and you're not learning something, go leave or tell me, hey, listen, I don't feel like I'm learning anything.

That's a huge problem. That's why you pay all the money for it. That's why you pay it because you got me to teach you. So I try to offer that in my online programming where we're doing the programming and building it up, but people are kind of like getting a small description of, like, this is what you need to get out of this workout. And if you did this workout and you chose a weight or you did this weight that didn't allow you to go unbroken,

but you thought you could, you know you've made a mistake in your programming. And that is what gets people to understand what they're capable of and what they should be doing rather than just saying, hey, this workout is 155. Well, I can snatch 225, so I should be able to use 155. And it rocks people, and they can't do an unbroken or they can't do whatever I'm telling them they need to do in the workout.

And they're not learning anything. So, like, in my aerobic part of my workout, it's just like, hey, you need to be at a conversation pace, right, or you need to be at a pace where this is a high – the row is at a very pace, right? Or you need to be at a pace where this is a high, the row is at a very high intensity, and then the run is at a pace to where you can talk while you're running, right? And I try to explain it so people get like,

okay, I know exactly what I need to be doing, and I know exactly the intensity I need to be moving at, rather than, hey, it's three rounds of this and this and this, and people just are gunning it and doing it at a high intensity and like, oh, my God, I'm dead. This workout was just crushing. It's like that's not what it was meant for. Is this how you've always trained and how you were taught to program

or something you learned along the way from the crash and burn probably? Yeah, this was a lot of learning. Of course, training with Rich was a lot of learning how to pace, a lot of learning what you are capable of. So it was just really good to have that background because, like, you get to see him work out. The CrossFit game is not even impressive. I don't even, like, watching him train is fun.

Like, because he. You know you're doing it right when the guy that you trained with, like, four or five years ago or whatever still is like, yo, there's nobody better in the gym than that guy ever. Listen, listen, Frazier is doing something amazing. Yeah. But I am a phoning fan. And I love Matt Frazier. That's like, Matt Frazier is doing something amazing. Yeah. But I am a Froning fan. And I love Matt Frazier.

Matt Frazier is like a brother to me. We're pretty close. And, you know, anytime we see each other, it's always love. But I'm just a Froning fan, man. I'm just like, like, Froning is my guy, man. And just, I mean, do I think Froning can beat Frazier? No. I think he can comeoning can beat Frazier? No. I think he can come back individual and Frazier will pounce his ass.

Yeah. You know, like it's going to be hard to turn that switch from team individual, bro. Like, you know, like, but just what I've learned from Froning. Yeah. Just like being around him. Yeah. And like, and he didn't even coach me.

Like, it wasn't even like, Rich didn't even coach me. Like, it wasn't even like he didn't even coach me. Like, Rich was like, figure it out yourself. Well, it's like the way that they live their life. Yeah. Is different. And you see, if you see that and then you see everyone else, you kind of recognize, like, oh, that's why you're not as good as him. Because you're not living the life. Yeah.

Like he does. Well, this is. With one intent. This is what people don't do is people hang around people without, one, asking questions and, well, two, paying attention to what they're doing and then putting something behind it. I don't hang around people and just, oh, you guys do podcasts. And there's no like, well, why do you do podcasts?

What got you in a podcast? What makes this podcast important? It's kind of like I'm around Froning. Oh, you row every day. I'm going to put something something behind it like i'm gonna put a why behind it whether you give me the why or whether i just kind of say this is what it does for you i need something behind it to back me up of why you row every day i can't just come in and row every day just thinking you do it so i do it and i don't really know but once i started putting the wise behind the things he did i was like it makes perfect sense he rose every day because rowing is a mechanical movement that

teaches you proper strokes proper leg to pull like you know like almost like weightlifting it teaches you how to breathe under tension right it teaches you how to pace right because the monitor and you're always trying to maintain paces it teaches you how to be aerobic and be explosive like it's a phenomenal tool to teach you so many things. And it's like, well, this is why he does this every day in different variations, different intensities, different distances, different time domains. It was like every single day this man used to row. And I used to be like, I'm not rowing.

When you get done, we'll squat. Because I was like, I need to get stronger. I don't need to row. But rowing made me stronger. Like, you know, it made me a more efficient person. It taught me how to breathe whether I'm moving at a high intensity or really slow and long. Like, it taught me how to use my legs and then go into a pool.

Right. So it was like, oh, I get why you row every day. Okay, I'll do it. I'll do it every day. Like, you know, and it's just things like that that people don't pay attention enough. They just think they got a great training partner. So it's like, let's just work out. Intensity, intensity, intensity.

It's like, what are you learning? Yeah. And if I'm learning, I'm unbeatable. I feel like I'm going to continue to get better. Yeah. Because I'm learning. Same thing with business. You know, you get a part of a brand.

Don't just let them dictate what you do. Don't just let them tell you, hey, you got to fly here. You got to be here. Here's your check. Shut up. Like, no. Behind the brand. Why is the brand what it is why is it important why are you a part of it what do they need you to do how is it growing and then what do you do go be on business you know like you've learned it you got it i got it now and if i want to be a part of it i can but if i don't i have the knowledge to take it and go do what i need to do to still bring in that revenue or that income because i'm learning and i think people just get so excited because they're just working out like with top athletes they're

just hanging out but it's like you need to teach this to all the athletes yeah they don't know yeah i don't have time part of that put it on the website i know another online program this is what we do. You bring something up as we're giving your website away. Then we learn something new, and then we talk about it for another 15 minutes. Yeah, man. What's the website again? EZMuhammad.com.

Letter E, letter Z. Muhammad. But, yeah, man, it's just when I was with Froning, I was learning. When I was in Cookville, I was learning a lot daily, every day just learning. So it was just like now that I'm off by myself and after I've been around a lot of communities, a lot of gyms, a lot of coaches, I've been able to formulate how I want to do things. And through my online programming, it's just like this is how I want to do it

and this is how I do it. People mech on too much. Everyone's like, oh, I'm doing this. Like, I think I go through, like, a four-month period where it's just, like, EMOM city. Like, it's just, like, interval everything. Like, I don't even want to do a full workout. Yeah.

But it's, like, people just, I don't know. It's just a lot where it's just, like like you don't have to do that to get better. You don't have to do Fran and then do Isabel and then you did Murph twice in six months. It's like you don't have to do that. Like you can change it drastically different and still get the fitness out of it. Yeah. So the online programming is my way about going about things. I love it.

My 14-year-old girl followed it. She finished fourth at the games this year. She did it, and she used to kind of ask questions, and I'd just be like, hey, listen, don't worry about it. You know? This whole CrossFit thing is downloading information. Don't forget that. It's your body downloading a ton of information.

I've never heard that before. Just let it know. That's a good little zinger. That's all it is. So, therefore, if I do an EMOM and I do, let's say, five minutes because I want it to be super intense. I'm going to do 20 pull-ups every minute on a minute for five minutes. That's 100 pull-ups. I now know I can do 20 pull-ups every minute on a minute for five minutes.

I'm broken. I'm downloading the information. My body knows it can handle that volume. So when I go to the games and the first workout or one of the workouts is 100 pull-ups into GHD sit-ups, into pistols, my body's already downloading. If I do 20s every minute of the minute, I'll be done with this in five minutes. If I choose to go 30 the first set, I then have to back off somewhere else. I'm already programming these workouts out so I know exactly what I'm capable of so I don't just blow up or die.

And at 14 years old, that's a huge advantage, you know, because if she's knowing what she's capable of, and these other 14-year-olds are just going off of just general fitness of, you know, working out and being good, it's just like she has an edge. And, of course, she finished fourth. I would say that's pretty good to have an edge and knowing what you're capable of. I'd say fourth is good. Fourth is solid, yeah. I mean, you finish fourth. I would say that's pretty good to have an edge in knowing what you're capable of. I'd say fourth is good. Solid, yeah.

Solid. But, yeah, so that's all CrossFit is to me. It's just downloading a ton of information into your body, of getting your body to understand what it is actually capable of doing rather than I just did this workout and I'm dying and I don't even remember what time I finished my 21s. It's like, well, you lost. Yeah.

Doug Larson. Yeah. Dude, thank you for coming on the show, by the way. Appreciate it. You're a smart guy. I really enjoyed hearing your perspective today. Thank you, man. Appreciate it, man.

Thank you, man. You can follow me on Instagram, Douglas E. Larson. I also have my own site, DougLarsonFitness.com. Most things on there are online courses that I've developed in the categories of mostly nutrition and movement and mobility. Go check that out. I do Techniquads every Sunday, Barbell Shrugged every Wednesday. We also have online programming in the program vault. We have 11 programs in there.

Some of them are long-term. They go for like two years. Some of them are short-term, the three-month program. So check that out. You can go to shrugged collective.com backslash vault check that out that's all the things you find me at anders warner get into itunes youtube leave a comment five-star review every wednesday most saturdays barbell shrugged six days a week podcast million shows a month million downloads a month that's fucking crazy

that's dope right see every time we drop that million people like oh shit dope million downloads a month yeah that's sweet man we're going six days a week um life is good dude sweet man yep it's good stuff it's great that doesn't even count youtube that does not which is probably half of that yeah yeah yeah that's an additional half of that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's cool, man. An additional half of that. Yeah. Thank you guys for having me on, man. This was really cool, man.

This was cool. I've always kind of wanted to be on the show after I started watching everything. And then what really sparked my interest when y'all did it with Abbott. Oh, yeah. That's right. What's your – What's my take on that? Yeah, what do you got?

Look at my little guy. Look at him. Where's he at? Right there. Kaizen. Where'd he go? Ka's he at? Right there. Kaizen. Where'd he go? Kaizen. He's right there.

Kaizen. He can't hear me. Oh, the little one in the – He's walking right there. Yeah, there you go. Kaizen. He's wired up already. Yeah, man.

The Abbott thing, man, it broke my heart. I was like, dang, that sucks. You know, I had my own kind of view where I was just kind of like, you know, maybe I believe her, maybe I don't. It's kind of hard when you're engaged. Yo, what's up? When you're engaged to not know what you're significantly others doing in the household. That was the part that kind of struck me a little indifferent because when I was,

by the time I was in that type of relationship with my wife and we were engaged there was nothing in our household that we didn't both know about so when you say you're engaged and you didn't know he was taking this is kind of like that relationships over this company there's no coming back from this like it's over you ruined my career we're engaged that means there should be nothing you know I'm saying like in the household that we're talking about. Except for if it's like, you know, I don't know, but

I was just kind of like, that was the part where I was like, man, that sucked because at least he didn't tell her. And now he kind of tainted or ruined her career. And y'all are engaged. This is the stage now where we feel comfortable about

talking about everything you should let me know everything um i shouldn't be blindsided by anything um so abbott's a true sweetheart like the girl's awesome yeah like awesome so i felt for her when she went through this situation and the reason being is because that girl has been nothing but real every time I talk to her. Yep. Every time I've spoken with her, she has just been 100%. This is what it is. And that's why I was like, yo, I really like you. I really can vibe with you.

And when that situation came out, it was kind of like I was indifferent because I was like, I think she kind of knew. Because if you're engaged, there's nothing that you should not be talking about. I just think it backfired. She knew and she didn't. Of course, you're not doing it. So you're like, she's not taking it. So it's like, how am I going to get it? You know, like, do whatever you do, babe.

Enjoy it. You know, like, whatever. That's not me. But I still love you. And that's how most women are where they're very, I mean, just the conscious American way of thinking about a woman versus a man is the woman's supposed to be kind of submissive or whatever, and the woman's endearing and loves hard. And I'm pretty sure if she did know, she was like, I don't care.

Like, I love you. Like, you know, hopefully you don't think you need this, but, you know, it takes time, right? Like, so it was a side of me that thought she knew, and then it was a side of me, like, she's too bold. Like, if she knew, she'd probably tell him, like, stop that shit. Like, because she's just too bold. So it was – it played with me a little bit, but at the end of the day, it was just like, damn, I feel for her because she was at a climb. Like, it was just like, damn, I feel for her. Because she was at a climb. Like she was.

How did she go from like, I mean, she finished like, I want to say she finished eighth. Eighth. Five, four years ago. Thirteen, maybe. Thirteen, fourteen, fifteen. Fourteen, fifteen, like middle of the pack. And then wire to wire regional winner after they expanded the region.

Yeah. Yeah. That. Yeah. That's weird. I don't care about placing. I don't care about – you can't tell me – like, no one can say, oh, well, it makes sense now because she won the region. Yeah. Like, maybe she just trained different.

Maybe it was her year. Maybe, like, people try to put a placing to the usage. Like, let's just take Ricky Garrard, right? I like playing devil's advocate on both sides because I was in the fucking room and I saw her face and that was real. For sure. That was soup. When those tears came and she was talking about her husband or her fiance,

that shit was real. I bet you she's, like, hurting. She is in Europe right now for the last month and he's back in San Diego. Man, listen, listen. That's real life. When the whole thing, like, broke back in San Diego. Man, listen, listen. That's real life. When the whole thing, like, broke down, like, I literally, of course, I'm not just going to be blind, right? Like, oh, yeah, she's never done anything like that.

I don't know her. Like, you know, she might have. But the fact that maybe she knew he was doing it and thought it wouldn't cross-contaminate and get her, that was a thought. Because straight up I was like, I know she's not taking anything. Like she doesn't even seem like that type of person, which I could be wrong. Like, you know, like I don't know her. Like that, you know.

Yeah. But just speaking with her, I was like, her heart's too good to go that route. Like, you know, like you just got that feeling about some people where it's like there's no way she was – there's no way she was juicy. When we interviewed her like three months before she got caught or before she failed the test is the best way to say it. It felt when we interviewed her that she was in a very healthy place of like exploring who Emily Abbott was. Yeah.

It didn't even really seem like she gave a shit about where she finished at the games because she was thinking about getting married, having children, going on an RV tour of the United States. Like, there was all kinds of things that she wanted to do that had nothing to do with athletics. And then of a sudden was like wham yeah real-life welcome oh man like I said like people were like oh Ricky Gerard came in the games I know where he qualified for games got third and he's juicing oh it must have been the stuff he was taking well you're saying that because he got

popped now like you're saying that because he got popped now like you're saying that because he got because he got popped but if he didn't get popped would it be like oh man he's probably taking something because matt frazier did it rich froning did it out of nowhere out of nowhere second place at the crossfit games where'd he come from oh next year he won oh he won it again oh he won it again matt frazier second place at the games or Or Matt Frazier didn't get through regionals his first year and then qualified for the games, second place. Qualified for the games next year, second place. Qualified for the games, won, won.

It's like, so Ricky Garrard can't do it? So it's like I don't play that game of like, oh, man, that guy looks like he's on steroids. It's like I've never talked to that person. I don't know. But Emily Ablett, I've talked to her. I've hung out with her. She does not've never talked to that person. I don't know. But Emily Ablett, I've talked to her. I've hung out with her.

She does not seem like that type of person. So I was immediately like, fuck. I feel for her right now because I've spoken with her. In my mind, I can vouch. I just don't see her doing it. She's a super real chick. I don't see her doing it. She's an athlete. The only thing that came to was maybe she knew he was doing it

and didn't think about cross-contamination, or maybe she was completely blindsided. It was just the fact that if I'm in the household and I'm at the stage of engagement, I would probably feel comfortable telling my wife, like, yeah, yo, listen, I've been trying this, and this is what's going on. Period point, if I ever take anything, my wife would know. So, therefore, if I got popped trying this, and this is what's going on. Like, period point, like, if I ever take anything, my wife would know.

So, therefore, if I got popped for something, it ain't no surprise, but we already knew we were going to take this risk and do this. You know. Like, you know, so that's just kind of how it is. So that was my outtake on Emily. It was like either she knew and she just didn't think about the cross contamination maybe happening, or she literally is just blindsided completely. My man is cleaning and jerking over there.

Uh-oh, dude. Right? Get it to the hips, bro. Yep, yep. Hey. Right on, man. This has been super fun. Yes, definitely, man.

EZ Muhammad, Doug Larson, Adi Anders-Varner, come and hang out with us. We'll see you guys next Wednesday. Definitely. Thank you.