Barbell Shrugged - Let’s Talk About Drugs w/ The Muscle Doc - Real Chalk #107

Episode Date: December 24, 2019

I really wanted to talk about a topic that everybody wants to know more information about, but no one ever really talks about. Jordan, has absolutely no problem talking about it and did a phenomenal job hitting a lot of the key points that I wanted to hit in this podcast. As the title says, you’re about to hear a whole bunch of stuff about testosterone, SARMs, peptides, and a few other drugs used in athletics and the bodybuilding industry. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Show notes: http://www.shruggedcollective.com/rc-ep107 ---------------------------------------------------------------- ► Subscribe to Shrugged Collective's Channel Here http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Shrugged Collective is a network of fitness, health and performance shows that help people achieve their physical and mental health goals.  Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first Barbell Shrugged podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast. Find Shrugged Collective and their flagship show Barbell Shrugged here: SUBSCRIBE ON ITUNES ► http://bit.ly/ShruggedCollectiveiTunes WEBSITE ► https://www.ShruggedCollective.com INSTAGRAM ► https://instagram.com/shruggedcollective FACEBOOK ► https://facebook.com/ barbellshruggedpodcast TWITTER ► http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged

Ladies and gentlemen, it's Tuesday. It's time to have another episode of Real Chalk. This time we're going to be listening to Mr. Jordan Shallow, a.k.a. The Muscle Doc. And we're going to be talking about drugs. Why did I say it like that? Because everybody wants to know more about drugs, but nobody wants to bring it up because it's a weird topic. And there's not a whole lot of people out there who know about it because when you ask them about it, they're like, oh, I don't know anything about that. So Mr. Jordan Shallow doesn't give a flying fuck what you guys think about drugs in terms of if he uses them or not and his stance on them

and all the things that surround the obscure feeling when people talk about drugs. So notice how my voice changed on that. I think it was necessary to really get the point across. Anyway, we're going to hit some things about testosterone, SARMs, peptides, and a bunch of other drugs that are in, you know, athletics and bodybuilding. And this is such a fucking awesome and fun episode. And the way that Jordan really like kind of wraps things into like different little categories and the way he talks about them and the passion that he really has behind it and the knowledge really makes it an enjoyable episode. And not only that, it's like, there's just like a lot of knowledge in there. I think it's great. I even ask him like, all right, well, let's just say someone's going to go out and just do a fucking cycle of steroids or something like that. Like,

what should they do? How should they get it? You know, like I at least ask questions like that because I'm really interested to see what the answers are because I know a lot of you guys are. And you know, if we don't tell you, you're just going to go fucking do it anyway and probably fuck it up. So let's make sure that we do it the right way. Let's make sure that we have the knowledge behind, you know, all of this before we do something that we may, we may, or well, we should or should not be doing. Sorry. So before we get into the show, I always like to tell you guys what I have going on on jimryan.com, G-Y-M-R-Y-A-N.com. You guys can sign up for my next nutrition challenge, which is

the keto challenge, which has also been in the past called the earn your carbs challenge. So with the keto challenge, you're basically going to have days of very low carbohydrates, AKA keto style days. And you're going to have some refeed days. And the way that it's all set up right now, I've already had a few challenges before and after photos are fucking crazy. And in my opinion, the reason that this shit works is because it's easy to follow. You don't have to go out with your friends and be weird and order something like, you know, that you're going to have to like put all sorts of different asterisks on. You don't have to not eat all your food and tell your friend that you're just like on a very specific diet. It's not like intermittent fasting where you're not eating all day and you have to tell your friends that you can't eat because you're on some sort of weird diet.

It's just, it's something that's sustainable. It's easy. You'd be able to follow it long-term. And I think that the principles behind it are something that you're going to be able to hold on to a lot longer than something else. That's why I call it a lifestyle and not a diet. And it starts January 6th. This is the type of eating that I've been doing for a long time. So go on jimryan.com. It's G-Y-M-R-Y-A-N.com. If you like carbohydrates in your diet even more, you're like, fuck that. I love carbs. That's fine. I have the carb cycle guide, which used to be a challenge. It's just a one-time thing now. You just buy it. It's no longer a challenge. It's a little bit cheaper. And you guys have all the information on that. And you guys can have the same before and after photos with that. It's just

for people who like carbohydrates more than the fat style. If you want to gain more muscle, I definitely recommend the carb version over the keto cycling one, because it's a little bit hard to gain lean, hard muscle while eating a high fat diet and not having a lot of carbohydrates. So there's the difference between the two there. And then also all my books, you guys always get 25% off. If you just type in real chalk and all capital letters, uh, all, all the training books. All right. And that would be it. I think by the time this comes out, I might have a new book out. It's called super set 100. And it's my bodybuilding version of workouts that are for a 24-hour fitness style gym,

which I've been trying to work on for a really long time, and I couldn't finish it until I got injured recently and had surgery on my arm. I've had more time. It's done. I'm super excited. The style of it is epic, and I'll talk about that on my next podcast. But for right now, if it's out, sweet. Go pick it up. If not, by the next podcast,

it'll definitely be out. All right, guys. Again, I'm super amped for this episode. Make sure that when you listen to it and you love it, if there's any specific parts that you love, make sure you quote them out. Make sure you tag me. Make sure you tag TheMuscleDoc. That's his IG. And then, you know, let us know that you loved it. I hope you guys do love it. I know you're going to love it. Why do I even say that? All right. Without any further ado, let's get into the show. Ladies and gentlemen, we are out here at the New York Strong Event. I'm sitting here with Jordan Shallow. Sorry, I'm standing. I'm standing. We're standing here with Jordan Shallow. If you guys have never heard of Jordan Shallow, you've probably seen a shirt that said Prescript.

You've probably seen a really large man with a beard who's like called himself the Muscle Doc. Maybe you've seen the Instagram called the Muscle Doc. I'm sure at some point you've seen him at some point, right? Most people don't know my real name, which is weird because I think we're moving to like a society where you're not going to give someone a first and last name. You're going to give them an Instagram handle. Yeah. Like people like, oh, you're the muscle doc. It's like, yeah, hold on.

Let me check my driver's license real quick. It's like, oh no, my name is Jordan. But yeah, man, been out there for a while. Your assistant talked to me yesterday about doing a podcast and she said Jordan Shiloh and I was like, I don't know who the fuck you're talking about. No, no. Why would you? And she's like the muscle doc.

And I was like, oh, yeah, it's a world we live in. And I looked for your phone number this morning and I was like, Muscle Doc. Come on. I saved you your phone number? I swear to God. I love that. No, it wasn't in my phone that way. It was just,

I don't know what I actually saved you as. I think I saved you as just Jordan with nothing else. But I looked up Muscle Doc. That's hilarious. Hey man, got the job done. So what I'm really excited about and the biggest reason

I really wanted to have you on the show is I really wanted to talk about peptides yeah and sarms right those are the things that i think a lot of people they want to experiment with but they don't really know a lot about it so it's just like it's kind of the wild west for them and you know what there's not there's not a whole lot to know at the moment because it is kind of that new frontier of sports performance, especially when it comes to like ergogenic AIDS, right? Like, you know, you got the tried and true stuff. Like creatine's been around since like the dinosaurs, it seems.

And people are always trying to find an edge. And now in today's landscape with sports is they're trying to find either a legal edge or an edge that exists somewhere in a gray area that isn't illegal yet. I love the gray area. Yeah, you know what, man? That's where Olympic gold medals are won. They really are. That's where fucking home run records are set. That's where when you're fourth and long, it's the gray area, man.

Even Babe Ruth was supposed to be eating some sort of different types of roots and stuff that were like in the gray area for how they affected the world. The gray area of cocaine, 100%. But it's like it's human nature, man. Like the wantingness to outperform is always going to exceed the wantingness to catch those outperforming right like it's always going to be as long as you'll never have clean sport ever it's just to what degree you consider sports dirty thank the fuck christ he said it dude it's just i mean look dude i've been i mean i remember being 12 years

old and watching Lance on the tour and being, hey, that one guy in the canary yellow jersey is murdering everyone. There's always a reason. Right. Always. It's always too good to be true. Yeah, and you know what? It's always like this Simpsons pastor wife thing.

Oh, think of the children. It's like, look, they're going to grow up, and the sooner they can realize that this is how the world is played because it's not just it's not just it's not just sport man like shit i lived in the silicon valley for seven years i practice at one of the largest tech companies in the world you got you got guys coming in at the director level at apple spinning like you know they weren't on sarms they were on a different type of performance enhancing drug like you got guys getting scripts for addderall or Vyvanse. Like, this fucking guy hasn't blinked in seven years.

Right? He's been strung out since his undergrad in Cornell. And, you know, he's going to die at 40, but he's going to leave a fucking huge impact. And it's like, how bad do you want it? Yeah. Which is a really, like, it's a very matter-of-fact mindset. Like, look, every year that goes by and every olympics that rolls through they're they're giving people medals in the mail from like 20 years ago like hey we

actually found out the first 20 people that you competed against we're all on drugs so here you go 20 years later no podium no one cares it won't even make the paper yeah it's like just be honest yeah right and that's such a huge thing with athletes too is like athletes don't own their shit like you get caught i would just want one person just one person to get caught with anything SARMs whatever drugs PEDs and just be like yeah you're fucking right you fuck like i just want like it's you know when you have when you have oprah is your golden snitch and he's the one that outs arms wrong it's like there's a problem here yeah yeah it's it's just a it's do you think drugs are actually killing people because like when when someone's been on steroids for 15 years in the nfl or something they get a brain tumor like do you think that they died because the brain tumor

like super like it it made that happen sooner do you think it was going to happen no matter what so i think it's contextual right there was a i don't want to misquote this but i have such a hard time believing sorry i have such a hard time believing sorry i have such a hard time believing that someone can die from something that is just going to help you survive right to a certain extent like you know the there was a case where uh a bodybuilder had died i believe it was eccentric ventricular hypertrophy which is to say like look we're all athletes especially here everyone here has a big heart, right? And not just like from like, oh, they're so kind. It's the holidays, the Grinch kind of thing. But like physically, the smooth muscle of our heart has expanded like the rest

of our muscles in our body to a certain degree. Now, this particular bodybuilder had a genetic defect which caused eccentric ventricular hypertrophy, which is basically to say inside the chamber of your heart, the muscle started to grow inward, right? Most of our hearts grow and expand outside of the actual chamber of the heart. Now, that genetic mutation is going to express itself, right? The performance enhancing drugs did not turn on and off that gene. That was expressive through birth and it was likely a congenital defect. Now, that guy dies at 50 as a plumber, but as a competitive bodybuilder, he dies at 24.

Because it's like you're exacerbating that process of muscle growth. And that muscle growth is growing into that last chamber of your heart. He died literally at 24? Yeah. Fuck, that sucks. And it is sad, man. Is that more of a testosterone thing

or like a growth hormone thing? Like him to speed it up at a certain rate with like what it's with growth hormone as a you know a supplemental drug or ergogenic aid uh at lower doses it doesn't seem to have a huge effect on skeletal muscular hypertrophy but at higher doses it seems to have a kind of a an overall effect on growth throughout the body and things that can still grow um so yeah it likely was a combination of both but the real issue was screening for the genetic defect of eccentric ventricular hypertrophy now how do you do that ahead of time so you really are going in blind right like you know people have heart valve issues that they're not aware of people have you know like undiagnosed brain lesions

and things like that which you could be fanning a very aggressive flame when you do introduce performance enhancing drugs but you know to say it's almost like it's almost like guns don't kill people people kill people yeah that's kind of the idea like there's how can one drug when when administered by a physician you know for a 35 year old with considered low testosterone be then turned around in the hands of someone the same age who procures it through a very you know by let's call it alternative means on the street and how could that same drug be now all of a sudden killing people right it's i think it's it's an easy target to victimize because it's you know it's inundated with professional sports,

especially baseball in the early 90s and that whole Supreme Court thing with Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa and all that. Well, you've got someone like me. I live in Newport Beach. It's a very expensive area. There's a lot of rejuvenation clinics. And I actually just saw one the other day um and and they're actually prescribing people testosterone growth hormone and oxandrolone i was like wow you guys are actually giving that out too huh that's very interesting so like when you look up the like those types of

things when i if you have low testosterone you start giving yourself testosterone i feel like the upper limit for sports is 1200 do you feel like someone's taking Oxandrol, which is for an HIV patient to get back, they want to stop their muscle-wasting disease, they have a T-cell issue, there's something going on in their body. This is literally made to give these motherfuckers weight, to keep them alive,

have more cells to keep you more healthy. I know a doctor who takes 10 milligrams every day his entire life, so he doesn't ever get sick. There's a whole article on it, and I read about it. I was like, wow, this is amazing. So now we have somebody who has low T. They're at 1,200.

They're taking oxandrolone. They're taking testosterone. Do you see any harm in that in the long term? So I think the upper limit is actually the science is evolving slowly because of the limitations put on it by the law really like what you're going to see is you're going to start to see and what without getting too technical administration of shorter esters i think a lot of times there's a cumulative effect that we don't really take into consideration and how much our body can kind of process on a day-to-day like the that endocrine pathway is just like a simple lock and key mechanism right so you're limited to your ability to actually utilize a dose dependent relationship based off the number of locks you have in your

body right that's what you see some some kids man they're just what we'll call high responders it's like they got a lot of locks and they're ready to go and they hop on you know 100 megs of something and next thing you know they're 25 pounds bigger like what the fuck you guys that same the next guy you know the same amount, and all of a sudden, he's not getting anything. It's like, well, yeah, no locks, right? I think the issue now is there's an accumulation effect that has to be taken into consideration in how our body sort of backlogs and has to process this excess that sits with longer ester hormones, right? So there's a distinction to be made between peptide hormones and steroid hormones, right? Like a lot of people

think that steroids are this broad brush performance enhancing drug. And it's like things like insulin, things like insulin growth factor one, somatotropin or human growth hormone. These are all classified as peptides. They're very complex molecules that take a longer time, or maybe not a longer time, that are more difficult to break down. Then you have anabolic hormones or steroid hormones, rather, and those seem to be a little bit simpler, right? For the breakdown, you can get those. That's why they're having issues with ingestion of oral insulin, for example, and that's why

metformin seems to be on this as a really exciting drug right now. If you want to talk about a physician taking 10 megs of oxandrolone, there's a lot of physicians prescribing low-dose metformin and controlling blood glucose so i guess to your question it's going to be more of like i think the shift is to move to shorter esters so when we start to see some of these issues arise basically you're going to deal with shorter half-lifes and hormones so that you know we start to see good side effects and that's like the intent and purpose of the drug then we can say okay we can monitor this and watch it moving forward but if we start to see good side effects, and that's like the intent and purpose of the drug, then we can say, okay, we can monitor this and watch it moving forward. But if we start to see bad side effects, we can pull it out right away. Where like, I think right now the physicians are, their kind of hands

are tied around longer ester hormones that wave through like a 16 day half-life. So it's like, look, you know, if we start things going south, it's like, you know, you got like, you know, a couple months before we're clear of this storm. So it's an interesting kind of like, it's an interesting line to start to draw between, you know, shorter esters are usually seen in sports performance, right? Like you want to clear a test? Like just, I have a friend of mine, she competed in the Olympics and she would come out in a World Cup series of a starthouse or a skeleton. And she would walk out with a vial with a Russian label on it. And it was like no ester testosterone.

And they were jabbing this stuff in the stars. Testosterone suspension. Yeah, test suspension, right? You know I did skeleton for five years. Did you actually? I actually was on the – I trained for the Olympic team from 2004 to 2010. So starthouse in Park City. That's where I live, in Park City.

Jesus, it was like six years ago now. That's where I live, in Park City. Jesus. It was like six years ago now. She comes out with like a little Russian. Dude, I fucking guarantee I know who you're talking about. Yeah. That's when I competed. It's hilarious. I competed from 2004 to 2010.

Yeah. And it's just like, you know, I've been around professional athletes for almost 10, 12 years. And it's like, that's all. You know what? As sad as it is, we can ignore it and think it's like that's all you know what as sad as it is we can ignore it and think it's not an issue or we can be educated on it and give like look at the end of the day people are going to do what they're going to do there also was a big thing back then when i was competing it was because well i eventually wound up doing bobsled i got big enough to do bobsled

um and the big thing was called check drops oh dude so that i had like a four hour detection so like but you started the competition about the the time the competition was over, it was already gone. You're gone. And the check drops is an interesting drug because you can subdivide steroid hormones really into two categories of anabolic and androgenic. Now, check drops is said to be highly androgenic. So there's this idea of like roid rage and things like that which to a certain degree i think exists and there's obviously some psychological pre-existing psychological factors that'll help fan the flame of the manifestation of that but if you're an asshole you're a super asshole exactly but it's said that tyson before he bit holyfield's ear off like those who know check drops that's like

what does it do well when tyson bit holyfield's ear off the story was that he took check drops before the fight i'm actually actually going to bring that up. Yeah, no, it's wild, man. But it just shows you, like, look, man, at a certain point, what is it worth to you? Right? Like the Norway study done in the Olympics of, like, look, if you had to take a drug that would give you a gold medal or you would gold medal in the Olympics, you'd be dead not in five years, within five years. Like, you could drop dead tomorrow.

Ninety-eight 98 of them said fucking that yeah it's like dude unless you played sports you don't understand that right and 98 of the population basically everyone who walks the earth who isn't trying to like be the biggest fastest strongest look at that like oh i have so much to live for it's like yeah but these guys have something to die for like that's so sick like i look at lance armstrong that is one fucking hell of a way to put it they have something to die for instead of something to live for. Yeah. Yeah.

But, man, like, I literally have chills thinking about it. Yeah. Because, like, dude, they're risking everything. You know, the scrutiny, the social blacklisting. And, look. I've been there, dude. And I've been blacklisted and CrossFit. You see me.

Oh, 100%. And that's why I'm drawn to you. I've been trying to murder people. Yeah. It's fucking amazing. I want to fucking go right now. Let's go. And that's why I'm drawn to you. Murder people. It's fucking amazing. I want to fucking go right now. Let's go. But that's the best thing ever, man.

I don't think people really realize the difference between that sentiment of like, oh, you have so much. But like, dude, if you're willing to go out on your shield, are you fucking serious? Like that's the Spartan noble death, man. But there is these people now. So we have Sylvester Stallone. No, not Sylvester Stallone. Actually, Sylvester Stallone is one. Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Who's the other guy that was the Hulk? Oh, Lou Ferrigno. Lou Ferrigno. These guys took a fuck ton of stuff. Yeah. And they didn't even have any idea what they were taking. They were just like, this is making me bigger. I want to be on stage and look bigger than everyone else.

I'm going to keep doing all this fucked up shit. And they're still alive. And they're still doing pretty well. And actually, Lou Ferrigno is actually still fucking jacked massive whereas arnold is more of a governor role and he's yeah i mean he's not super jacked anymore but the fact that they're still alive is pretty cool yeah i mean you know you're gonna look at that from a research standpoint and talk about power but like because i want to know if it's killing people or not or if these people already had predisposed conditions that were it was it was going to kill

them anyway i think that's that's the biggest thing and what we're lacking right now is a way to actually pre-screen and it just i mean look look at marijuana i remember in high school like if you had like i'm just trying to i just want you to tell me to go to the doctor to get prescribed everything i'm trying to figure out don't know shit and other physicians don't know shit physicians have their hands tied to the current best practice research, which is antiquated. Right? Like, dude, you can pull up research from France of them testing Trenbolone on children. The Trenbolone is one hell of a fucking drug, man.

Everybody I know is taking that. It's like, yo, next level. Dude, it's like you're walking around with rocket fuel, man. Like, you got a short fuse and you got a fucking afterburner. Like, it's insane. But that's made specifically for cows to get bigger. I was at Westside. I was in Ohio and I was told a story that back in the day.

They used to do the shots in their ear, right? No. The story I heard was they would actually freebase it. So one guy would hold the spoon and Finiplex was like sort of the agricultural name for it. So they would take Finiplex tabs because it was fed to cattle as a steroid hormone and one guy would cook it on a spoon while his homie drew it out in the fucking needle. And then they would jab it real quick before it solidified again. Oh my God.

But look, again, that's something to die for. Like probably very quickly. Like you might meet your maker but they didn't give a fuck. Yeah. And that's why like you look at Westside Bar, and they turned out the strongest guys in the world. Because they were guys who were willing to go there. Like, if you're not, that's fine. But someone will.

West Side Wars the World. Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. It's, yeah. Documentary. And you know what? I don't even think that begins to tell the story.

No. Like, behind those closed walls, man, there's a hushed tone in that place where it's like, you don't speak about actually what went on and it's that they're fucked. But I look at that and go, man, like I hope everyone that watches this movie finds something in their life that they're that passionate about. And people, oh, I don't understand. It's like, I'm sorry, man.

You never will. Yeah. Which sucks. I mean, and you know what? I'm fine with that because now I know that you're never going to be my friend. Right. I don't want to be friends with people that don't understand. I look around my circle and it's people that are just willing to lay out for it, man.

And I don't think it's given that. It's weird. You're kind of like talking out of two sides of your mouth, especially in the States. It's like, you know, who's the highest paid actor in Hollywood last year? Actor? Dwayne The Rock Johnson. Oh, yeah. Right? So here you have like the American darling.

There was talks of him running for president, right? And then all of a sudden. He had gyno surgery three times. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure that wasn't from running a ton. But, hey, man, I'll be the last person to judge anyone. Yeah. But it's, like, be consistent with your outrage, right?

Like, we pigeonhole and, like, we cherry pick. And Arnold, all these people who are, like, way up, you know what I mean? Yeah. But you want to hit a few more dingers over the green monster in Boston and you're an enemy. But, you know, you want to influence millions of kids across the world and be an actor and be all big and strong with your tight underarm. And again, like nothing against Dwayne. Yeah. It's just people don't understand.

Like, look, it's the same thing and it's everywhere. Like all it's going to take is fucking Joe Rogan to kick a mean cycle of 55, and within, like, six months, Colorado is going to legalize it. Look at psilocybin mushrooms. Look at cannabis. Right? Like, it's just going to take a grassroots movement of people understanding these drugs, been respecting them, and having the ability to actually research them to the point

where we can start implementing them safely. Like Sly got popped coming into Australia like a decade ago with like some growth and some, I forget, and I don't want to oversimplify it. He got caught with performance enhancing drugs. And when they question about it, he goes, look, this is silly because in 20 years this is all going to be legal. And look at him. He's 72 and shredded to the bone. Yeah.

Most people in America right now, like for the the first time in our, like, in modern history, the average lifespan of the new generation is actually less than the one that came before it. Right? And if this can help fan a flame, like, look, everyone I know who runs it for the most part, they don't drink. Right? They exercise daily they they participate in the activities that lead that when the absence of these activities lead to eight of the ten most deadliest diseases in the united states right so it's like you know our stan efforting has this saying about like stepping over hundred dollar

bills to pick up quarters or like why are we demonizing a drug that might actually be an answer to a lot of our problems when when applied in the right in the right situation right but it's just people love that there's got to be an enemy right and for the longest time since the early 90s in the united states that enemy's been dropped like anabolic steroids so i mean a lot of people have things negative to say about anabolic steroids so then all of a sudden the world brings out these things called sarms right right so they're like all right we're gonna get the same anabolic effects except except it's going to be, you know, natural and this and that and blah, blah, blah. So what do you have to say about – let's go with, like, the things that most people probably looked up, like maybe, like, Rad 140.

What are the other big ones? I mean, so – There's, like, GW 1060. That's the one that the kid got popped for recently. It was on the podium at the games do you think any of these things are even worth a shit do you think that i've seen some pretty irreversible side effects from sarums that i haven't seen in in in other sort of drugs and any other ergogenic aids like um the biggest one i see is actually like like non-specific balding patterns like i've

seen i think it was rad 140 that i've seen a lot of cases of guys actually starting to lose lose patches of their hair like i think at the very least with some of the drugs that are on the other side of the aisle that are more demonized at least they've had some basis of research right and the thing with like this gray area of research chemicals on the internet is like look there's there's a quality control that's lacking across the board so you really don't know what you're getting when you western union your money to some fucking random email address yeah your buddy at the gym gave you so i mean do i think there's something

there maybe i think athletes that are look if you're gonna cheat cheat right like in my opinion like sarms like do the stuff that's been around do the stuff that's been around. Do the stuff that's been around. You've made that choice. It's a weird statement. It's a weird sentiment. No one gets a trophy for taking less. Again, I understand that's fucked up to hear, but at the end of the day, it's a line.

When you cross that line, no one cares. It's not like alcohol. If you told me that like oh yeah yeah i had i drink like i wouldn't think that you're at the bar every night getting fucking smashed right but second someone knows oh that guy takes drugs it's that ben affleck afternoon special yeah he's just he's got the pain in the ass mom and he's like tearing the place apart it's like there's look there's levels of gradation to this right and a lot of people because they don't understand the drugs they don't understand the people, because they don't understand the drugs,

they don't understand the layers of complexity. They don't understand the science. They don't understand why people do it, which I think is a huge underpinning to actually predict how these drugs are going to find their way, because they're going to find their way, right? They will find their way into the mainstream at some point. Like the myth of clean sport,

once we realize that sports have never been clean, that there's always, like, look, whether it's, you know, the lady riding the subway to win the marathon, you know, there's always that wantingness to cheat. I fucking love that story. It's so good. There's Uber ones, too, that are amazing.

So good. But look, man, like, people are going to cheat. And I think it's going to come, actually, from where people least expect it. You're going to see professional sports realize that they need to start protecting their assets, right? That you have these kids that are worth hundreds of millions of dollars. And to run them through 162-game schedule in Major League Baseball, to run them through 17 weeks of fucking hell on a weekly basis,

up against the goon squad of the Space Jam All-Star team, like, they're going to need to recover, right? And that's a lot of times out of desperation where these professional athletes are turning to. Like, I'm not going to name names, but I work with a lot of pro athletes, and one of the draw cards is kind of my understanding of this stuff. And it's like, you know, they assume the risks, they understand, but they also understand, like understand longevity outside of their sport

might actually be indicated in taking some of these drugs because it's not how much stress your body can be put under, it's how much you can recover from. There's so much. Stress is an aggregate. So the stress of being on fucking Monday night football or whatever accumulated with the fact that when you're actually under all those lights and millions of people are watching, there's a guy who's like 285 running a 4-5-40,

and he's coming for the heart in your chest. Like, oh, shit, maybe it would actually benefit this athlete to take matters into his own hands. There was a guy who just got served a 25-game suspension in professional basketball for taking human growth hormone. It's like, yeah, everyone in basketball is taking human growth hormone. How like yeah everyone in basketball is taking human growth hormone how the fuck did they even test that as a blood sample right and that's where you're going to move to there was a huge push in um in the nfl it's not even worth spending the

money no it's like a two thousand dollar test let him take it a lot of times you have to do it on biopsy like there was talks in the nfl years ago about testing for hgh and insulin it's like do you know what the nfl is without hgh and insulin the cfl like no one wants to watch that's fucking crazy but it's just yeah i just think like how many crossfitters have reached out to you big crossfitters yeah i mean it's but the same thing doesn't happen that's all i want oh yeah 100 100 because i fucking can't stand when people are just like no he's natural blah blah blah it like. What I don't understand, CrossFit's a different animal to me because like. They just have, they have a very, their following of people who follow these people, they really

want to believe that everything is, you know, is real and fairytale. What I always challenge people is like, look, CrossFit's really seem to have a, from an outsider's perspective, a crackdown on drugs in their sport. You know, coming off the scrutiny of the UFC and the bringing in of the Golden Snitch, and like, you want to talk a sport that needs recovery. Like, these guys need it. And CrossFit's very similar in the sense that,

look, these workouts are getting harder and harder and harder. And no one's needed recovery more than CrossFit athletes. Seriously. Not one fucking athlete on Earth needs recovery more than CrossFit athletes. Yeah, because they cover so many domains. Insane, in the same day. and it's like neurological metabolic for a week straight skeletal like nuts yeah and i just think like with crossfit especially i think there's a there's a narrative being spun by what's actually being released that if you just look at the writing

on the wall like where you're telling me like number seven in the south america region got popped for methadone which is commonly known as d-ball in most bodybuilding circles and she's seventh in south america yeah yet whoever's winning first overall is clean as a whistle like you know like don't piss on my head and tell me it's fucking raining but they want to spin this holier-than-thou narrative of like look we're really cracking it down our sport look at all these nobodies we caught with drugs. It's like, okay, doesn't it lend itself to argue that everyone who beat them might be on performance-enhancing drugs?

It's the stupidest thing. Anyone with a brainstem could probably figure that out. But CrossFit, because they're a private entity, they're able to withhold the information. I know several people who have failed and it's never surfaced. Just right under the rug. Right under the rug, yeah. But dude, look at the Olympic sprinting. Look at the history of drugs

behind the U.S. Olympic sprinting. Carl Lewis in the Bigger, Stronger, Faster documentary. What was Usain, where was Usain Bolt years before he broke his record? He was 7th or 8th in the country of Jamaica. Mind you, Jamaica is, you know, for whatever reason, some sort of sprinting powerhouse that doesn't really make sense. He was 7th or 8th in Jamaica to all of a sudden 1st in the world.

Look at circles of Olympic weightlifting cultures in the United States. Well, before Victor Conte, everybody in the whole world was like, this is the best athlete ever, this, that, blah, blah, blah, blah. And everybody was like, holy fuck, Marion Jones. This is just craziness. And then Victor's like, oh, yeah, I just supplied everybody. And by the way, 80% of baseball is doping. And if I'm going down, fucking everybody's going down. And then ever since then, I was like, okay.

I did my whole paper in college because I was an exercise physiology and nutrition major. And I did my final paper on just – I actually did my final paper on blood doping oh amazing but i did but i did most of it was a lot of the research that victor did and a lot of the stuff that he was giving his athletes yeah and like i like learned all these cool things and i was like fuck i kind of want to blood dope myself so like i actually bought a 4000 iu vial of uh of epo from a vet veterinarian website and I just bought one. Because apparently every 4,000 IUs, you go up one red blood cell hematocrit count. And I was, like, so terrified.

And I was like, well, I have to do it. I did all this research. I want to know what it feels like. And then, like, I did, like, one shot, and I never did it ever again. Dude, it's insane. Have you ever heard of Bjorn Ries? No. So it's so funny, like, how these things just come in waves.

Bjorn Ries was a – I Ries was a Danish cycler. Was he Danish or German? By the way, I never felt anything from that one shot. Really? No, you didn't notice the one? No. All of a sudden, you got Heinz ketchup running through your veins? And I went to go buy.

I wanted to buy more, and then they wouldn't let me. I just got one through. But, yeah, what a cool experience, man. Not many people can say they've done that. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Like, urethra poitin is like, fuck, proof's in the pudding, man. Yeah. Like, you can't touch Lance with a yellow jersey on.

You just can't do it. Mr. 70. Yeah. That's what they called him, Mr. 70%. Yeah. That was part of my paper. That was his hematocrit, right? Yeah. Because, yeah, before that.

Because we're all like 49. We're all between 45 and 49% hematocrit. Once you hit over 50, you're like, okay. Your blood moves slow. For those of you who don't know, it gets, yeah, very slow. Before him, no one ever referenced Bjorn Rees because Bjorn Rees' nickname was Mr. 60. Oh, he's the guy who won Tour de France before. Exactly.

Yeah, yeah. No, you're talking about. It's just weird how the social outrage machine. He was the guy in Bigger, Stronger, Faster. Was he actually? Right? Yeah. He was like, I didn't do this.

I actually slept in an altitude chamber and I did this and that and blah, blah, blah. Yeah. That's like, I see there's nothing I love more than a good excuse. Yeah. Am I a good excuse? Am I a really bad excuse? It would be better if, you know, he's like, you know what? I already failed.

I already took my medals away. Yeah. I did it. Yeah. Rather than like, what was the one guy like, oh, I drank like 12 beers. Oh, what about the fucking girl who was like i made out with my boyfriend oh shit the cost of the canadian girl yes yeah like all right okay i just you know what talk about like hey there's the bus or there's the grenade you're

hopping on that for me like i'd be so rattled if that was like like look this is gonna suck your family's gonna hate you forever yeah But this is how we earn a living. So jump on that grenade, soldier. It's like not only is the guy like probably not. It was something. It was a peptide. It was a BPC. What was it?

Maybe it was RAD 140 or something. Yeah. It was something like that. Yeah. She was like, oh, my boyfriend took it and then I made out with him and then it was just enough. Right. It was just get the fuck out of here. And then we talked to a bunch of like actual like super geeky scientists and stuff

and they're like no fucking way. Impossible. Yeah. And you know what? Like just own it, man. And it'll take a profile man to actually change the conversation or to create the conversation and not be like, look, I've taken a ton of pre-workout in my

life. I took a C4 earlier today and I haven't fucking stopped. Like I've had heart palpitations ever since. Yeah. And it's like, I've traveled the world over and not once can I find this windstraw lace pre-workout that everyone seems to buy. It's like protein powder lace with like Andro. It's like, they just don't make that shit.

It's too expensive. So let's just say right now, someone's listening to this and they're like oh this is cool they're talking about drugs this is so cool like i want to know more about it like let's say someone right now who's been thinking about doing it for a long time right what do you how do you think they should get it one and what do you think the best they're there's someone who wants to let me specify they they want to look good in the gym they like they want bodybuilder characteristics right they don't really care about sports so much they just want to look good naked they're like you know. They want to look good in the gym. They want bodybuilder characteristics. Right. They don't really care about sports so much.

They just want to look good naked. They're like, you know what? I want to do my first cycle of something. Do you think they should go to a doctor? Do you think that they should go talk to their homie at the gym that they know is going to get stuff? And do you think that they should just do testosterone and Anovar or something basic? Or should they just fucking go for it, go trend, everything? Just YOLO. Layout. basic or should they just fucking go for it go trend everything's just yolo lay out i know it's hard man because like there is no like you know you could get weed 10 years ago that was laced

with lsd yeah next thing you know you're fucking having an acid trip when you just wanted to sit back and eat some fucking fritos on the couch and it's the same thing like it's because people are like not having the conversation that you know there's a lot of unregulated underground labs cooking up basically whatever the hell they want, right? And it's, like, the chemistry behind reconstituting a lot of this stuff is not overly difficult. But when things go wrong, man, they can go really wrong. So it's, like, I think the majority of people who are on the fence, they can actually look to benefit from, look, learn how to exercise properly, right? Exercise is a skill. Oh yeah. First and foremost, make sure you've tapped out your genetic potential. Right. And I think a lot of people don't realize what that means. Like there's, you know, all of my muscle connections, like, yeah, I want to know origin, insertion,

blood supply, innervation, action, and function. Go. If every muscle you train on a weekly basis, it's like, you don't know that. Like, don't even come talk to me. Don't talk to anyone. I think a lot of doctors are trained based off the lack of research that's out there to default to a very defensive position and be like, look, no, this is not what it is. People are going to do it anyways, right?

Like they're going to get their hands on it, which is kind of like, it's a scary proposition to think that some guy might be cooking this up in his fucking bathtub, reconstituting your test and Prince Igor vodka. Like you have no idea so it's uh it's tough man I honestly think the biggest thing the best thing everyone could do as a collective if this is something they're looking to do is actually push an agenda for people to have a real conversation about it right like it's

so taboo like I'm sure I'll get blowback for this and be like oh like he's an advocate I'm like no I'm an advocate for good science. Right now, we don't have good science based around these compounds. Yet, these compounds are flying off farmers. I was at Bev Francis Gym, like, one of, like, the meccas of bodybuilding in the Northeast. And there's, like, a vitality clinic inside. It's like, guys, are you serious? But, like, it's so taboo.

Like, if you get it from the guy in Gold's Gym versus you get it from a guy with a white coat all of a sudden it's a different like oh no it's fine i have a script it's like oh yeah like your trend was low was it really you know what i mean it's just i don't know it's hard man like you don't at least you know what you're getting when you go to the doctor right because the testosterone is not expensive you go to the doctor like fucking 50 60 bucks but you might spend three times that from your homie. Yeah, and that's a hard part, man. Like, it's just so unregulated right now that it's going to take someone with profile, someone honestly getting caught, owning it, and then saying, look, you don't understand how prevalent this stuff is in sports.

And then when you do realize how prevalent it is, you're going to start to see a change in the tide, right? Like, people recoil, and it's almost like a knee-jerk reaction that everyone, they default to innocence, right? They're just like, oh, it's like, dude, you fucking knew you were doing it, right? At the very least have a contingency plan for when what's going to happen actually happens, right? You get caught.

It's like, oh no, like what did I, like what do you expect? You're going to get fucking caught, right? And it was just like, I just don't understand people's like they're wanting us to recoil and reclaim their innocence it's like if you stand up and you own it and if you're someone of influence you can actually start to push the conversation of like look contextually if people want to do this they're they're gonna do it at least make sure we have every everything at our disposal so people can start doing it safely where do you think it's a good place for them to get the knowledge on this type of stuff? You know what?

I start with your biochemistry. I think that's the biggest thing. And that's where a lot of people, like, don't shortcut this shit, right? If they need someone to help them with biochemistry, is this something they can reach out to you for? I don't really teach too much on biochemistry when it comes to ergogenic aids in an open forum. Do you have a reference for them? I mean, biochemistry textbooks. There's people I follow who are great at biochemistry from a nutritional perspective.

And they'll help you understand muscle protein synthesis. One of the best biochemists, in my opinion, in the fitness industry is a gentleman named Luke Tulloch. Now, I don't want to implicate. He only does biochemistry. He talks a lot about nutrition. I'm thinking about the guy who's like, well, I want to do this. I want to know if I'm maxed out on my potential and this and that. And it's not even that.

It's having an understanding of, like, how your body works first before you have to start changing it. Right? Like, understand, like, know what a Krebs cycle is. Right? And, like, know what oxidative phosphorylation means. Like, this is the level of respect you have to treat these drugs. That's actually basic exercise physiology, too. Yeah.

Krebs cycle and all that stuff is, like, if you, it's, like, it's level one physiology in school for those of you who have never been to treat these drugs. That's actually basic exercise physiology too. Yeah. The current cycle and all that stuff is, it's level one physiology in school for those of you who have never been to school for this. Right, but I guarantee you with everyone that has a 10 mil of whatever in their gym bag, Oh, they don't know what it is. that they don't know what they're doing. And I think until we start to see a changing of the base level competence

of people who actually start going down this route, we're just going to end up in this vicious cycle of the dumb meathead. It's like, no, there's a base level code you need to understand about your human body before we start going in on the back end with the html script and the ruby red and the python and start fucking around on the back end most people look at their body from like if we're using the web-based analogy from like a very uh a user-friendly back-end interface like oh like my squarespace website, I just drag and drop.

So rather than dragging a picture into your online store, you're dragging, you know, oxangelone into your body. And it's like, whoa, there's a whole script behind this, right? If we peel back all like the user-friendly, you know, click and drags, there's ones and zeros, right? There's a binary code which all all our bodies ascribed to to varying degrees and it's like understanding your base level code and how the biochemistry works i think is integral in us having a real conversation about this so let's talk about some basic um i want to this could be like a lightning round almost like um common misconceptions

maybe tall tales stuff like that if someone takes testosterone right what are the chances of them never making testosterone if their body's ever again because a lot of people are like i don't want to take it because i don't want to be on the rest of my life because i have like older i have older clients in my gym right they're like 50 something like that they're like man i want to start putting more muscle on and this and that i'm like you should go to the doctor and really look into trt yeah and they're always like well i don't want to be on it for the rest of my life i'm like well i well, I have tons of athletes in my – I have a guy who's – he's like almost 60, and he goes on and off it all the time. He still has regular testosterone.

What's your opinion? Yeah, I mean, I think the proof's in the pudding, right? Yeah. People just don't understand the regulatory cadence of your body's ability to produce and stop producing. Yeah. It's going to fucking make it again. Yeah. There's a lot of people that are terrified that it's never going to come back.

Yeah, because they just don't understand positive feedback loops in the body. And some of them have had doctors tell them it's not going to come back. Oh, no, sure. And they're going to be on it forever. Because, I mean, this guy, this was one class this guy took 25 years ago. Yeah. And that was the one thing he retained. Like, there's so many moving parts to these hormones.

And then there's so many adjuncts you can take. Like, look, someone walks in with diabetes or a high HbA1c, they're going to leave with some sort of diabetes drug. They're going to leave with some sort of SSRI. And it's like, wait, what are we, are you serious? Like people aren't batting an eye at that, but they're worried about like, you know, a myth around your body's positive up to or positive, um, uh, positive feedback loop of like taking some sort of exogenous testosterone. It's like you can stimulate FSH and LH to restart the whole process over again. Right.

Again, it just comes down to like, you want to empower people, you have to educate them. Okay. And people really need to take the onus on themselves, especially where the current barometer around these type of drugs is still very high. And it's not until someone takes ownership and starts to actually have an educated conversation about this that we're actually going to start to see some sort of change when it comes to litigation. Because once you start to see that, like, look at, I mean, I know people who moved to Colorado

in the early stages of legalization of marijuana because there were certain strains that helped their kid with a congenital disorder they had. They had Down syndrome or they had some sort of tremors or some sort of epileptic seizure issue. And they were in three states over. They were in fucking Provo or some shit. And they couldn't get this stuff. states over like they were in fucking provo or some shit

and they couldn't get this stuff so rather than like risking breaking the law they uprooted their whole family and moved to colorado now all of a sudden this poor kid who's had fucking seizures every day of his life can get some sort of you know he can get a tincture of some thc thing it'd be fine yeah like the the the ability for some of these drugs to have that profound effect on some people's life you know outside of the 20 inch arms and the fucking thousand pound deadlifts like it has a real world impact that i think is stifling people's wellness and well-being that is just glassed over by this this very negative public narrative that spun around the drugs but you don't think that it's going to

permanently disable you forever? No. I don't think that because it's not the truth. Sorry for the rapid fire. No, it's fine. I know a lot of people are thinking about these things. I wish I knew this. A lot of people steer towards oxandrolone as a drug of choice because

they think that it's not going to shut down their natural production of testosterone and they don't need to take pct post-cycle therapy and it's very low toxic and there's a whole bunch of things about it they're like you know what this sounds dope i'm gonna do it right do you believe all those things are true um to a certain degree yes because there's the greatest amount of research done around oxandrolone it's one of the anti-aging drugs that's given to hiv patients i mean i ran a clinical practice 40 minutes out to san francisco you know i i had access to a lot of people's medical records and then one of the drugs i saw the most common was oxangalone and it's just a

guy man he's like 160 pounds you know something happened bad night whatever the story is and he ended up with like what would otherwise be a really daunting diagnosis, man? Imagine waking up and getting the call from the doctor and that's what you got. Like, hey man, once you get under a certain level, you're going to be HIV positive, right? Like you're gonna have full blown fucking AIDS. And it's like, holy shit. So oxangalone, look, you look at drugs through anabolic and androgenic, it's very mildly androgenic. That's you start to see oxalone going like crossing gender bridges females will take oxalone because it lacks the ability to really regenerate or generate secondary sex characteristics of of males um i think to a large effect that is true and it's proven true in some of the research so it's not

shutting you down oh no well i think to a certain degree while you're on it, but then it doubles back to the first question, right? Like any sort of exogenous stimulation of that signaling in the brain that says, hey, we have ample amounts of this. Let's limit the production of it. I think part of that is partially true. Now it's dose dependent based off of the anabolic and androgenic rating of the drug, right? So I think it is, quote unquote, a milder drug, but not to be taken lightly, if that makes sense. So if someone is taking oxandrolone, do they still need to take testosterone with it, in your opinion? I mean, it really depends on what your goal is. In my opinion, no, especially if it's someone who's doing it for non-medical, more aesthetic reasons.

Do they need post-psychotherapy? Person to person, right? There's a lot of different factors that indicate how we aromatize hormones, like how we convert excess in testosterone to estrogen or estradiol. A lot of that's case by case. A lot of it's actually nutritionally based. If you have high refined sugars in your diet, you're more likely to aromatize these hormones

and actually have more issues with that aromatization of that testosterone-based hormone. So there are a lot of lifestyle factors and pre-existing factors that you need to be able to screen for. How to screen for it, I have no idea. A lot of people think that if they take growth hormone or whatever, their fucking head is going to get huge, hand is going to get huge. I always tell people my answer, and maybe we can just squash it with this, is I'm like, you aren't rich enough to take enough for that to happen yeah like you are like look if you can afford the i use per day to make your head that big and so here's the thing right your long bones

the bones that pretty much make up our height are they have a growth center to them right and those growth centers close which is usually like 21 to 25. Growth plates, aka. Growth plates, yeah. When they close, you're not going to get longer. But we have these irregular bones that don't really have growth plates, right? Orbital, maxilla. That's where this head growth thing comes in. But there is something to be said.

Like, look, I think you hit the nail on the head. Like, if you're getting pharmaceutical grade, like you get Pfizer growth hormone pens, you know, you're getting 13 IUs and it's going to cost you $750 US. And that's when you're getting like everything's, you know, sealed straight from a lab. Like it's the dopest dope you've ever smoked kind of stuff. And you're talking about, so I don't know, what are these like $25 an IU, something like that? Well, yeah.

I mean, whatever the math is, I'm way more than that. Because I looked up like natural productions of the body and you're you're between a half an iu to a one iu yeah depending on how athletic you are and like all these different things so you have to be taking if you want to really make any sort of profound perfects effects yeah we're taking like three or four a day right which is we're talking about easily 100 bucks a day 200 bucks a day if you're taking you know brand yeah so for those of you out there who want to talk shit about it, unless you're dropping six G's a month, it's not going to happen. Guys will run cheap value on that in a day.

Yeah. Like, you know, you look at guys who are professional bodybuilders who this is a very, this is a price of doing business. You're looking 30, 40 IUs a day. Yeah. Right. 30 or 40 a day. Holy fucking shit balls. And that's not to mention the 110 IUs of insulin that they're running with day. Yeah. Right? 30 or 40 a day? Holy fucking shit balls.

And that's not to mention the 110 IUs of insulin that they're running with it. Yeah. Right? So this is, it's, people, again, there's a level of scale and gradation that people don't understand. Right? Like, it's almost like, you know, the girl that comes to you and wants to train but doesn't want to get bulky.

It's like, look, I've been trying to get bulky my whole fucking life. Whole life, bro. And I have like the, you know, I have 15 times more testosterone than you do. You have nine times more estrogen. I have more muscle mass to actually create a relative difference in the accumulation of tissue. It's not on the cards for you. It's literally like saying if I keep pulling on my penis, which I've been doing my whole life, it's going to get bigger. One day.

One day I'll have a Pringles can. But, you know, it's just, again, it just comes from bad information. Just from like a misinterpretation of the science. But, I mean, you can laugh about it because it is. It's comical. It really is. It is. It is that silly to think like, you know, and here's another drug, the human growth hormone. Like you talked to some people and some people very smart in biology and biochemistry.

Just like your your physician friend that said you know 10 megs of oxandrolone i have friends who are big on metformin for long term glucose control and like the benefits have proven in science and managing blood glucose you have a lot of people are huge advocates for low dose and somatotropin right like two i use a stimulates lipolysis we increase muscle protein synthesis. There's a lot of benefits to having these compounds in your body. Did you say hydrotropin? Somatotropin. Oh, somatotropin.

Somatotropin is just like... Growth hormone. Growth hormone, right. HGH. Generic. Yeah, and it's just funny to me that given the right white coat and stethoscope around your neck, you can have this conversation and it'd be very astute and very professional and very medical but you know two bros chilling at some fucking cross-fitting whatever event in new york it's like look at these

fucking meatheads it's like no like we've fucking been around the fitness industry for 15 years you've probably been around longer than i have and it's like i'm 33 this is like this is the same if not to a greater degree a more more thought-out thought process than most physicians have. Because it's one week and second year of med school. And they just get told, look, here's the science. And by the time that person's in practice, 15 years have gone by since they actually learned this. And 15 years worth of wealth and experience that we've accumulated just on this topic. So it's hard, man.

Dude, even as a gym owner and a trainer and all the things i've done in my life i remember being in college the number one thing that you're like fuck he's got that is the cscs the certified strength conditioning specialist certification and by the time i was a senior in college all the people that i knew who were smart and they were training with the nfl and this and that they were like you're gonna have to untrain your brain to answer the questions that you had to answer on that test so that you could actually do real shit. So now it's like, if that's in the fitness industry, only imagine what's happening in the medical industry because the medical industry is changing all the time.

Right. So now you have these people, it's just like you said, the book was 25 years ago or whatever, so a lot of, I mean, there could be shit out there with some two dudes that are standing in a corner somewhere that actually know more shit than most of these doctors. Yeah. And it's not an ego thing. Like, my sister's a physician. She's an ER doc.

Like, she's in the shit every fucking day. She doesn't need to know about this. Yeah. Right? Like, she needs to know how to get a lung out of someone or pull a bullet out of someone. Right? Like, when her shoulder hurts, she calls me. She didn't specialize in fucking testosterone and oxyangeloid cycles.

And it's like, but look, man, like, here's the thing. Like, you know, when people come to me with this kind of information, it's like, you can ignore it like it doesn't exist and try and go about your career and work with professional athletes and just leave it up to their own free will. Or you can begin to educate yourself on this and have real conversations with people who are going to end up doing it anyways. Right? Like whether or not it's for –

It is no different than smoke and weed, like you said. It is no different than like all these other things that people are getting and becoming prescribed all the time. Yeah. And it's like, you know, it's, again, contextual. One of the best research drugs for PTSD, if I'm not mistaken, is psilocybin mushrooms. But it's like – Which are great, by the way. They make these – I've never done it. Oh, they're greatbin mushrooms, right? But it's like they make these. I've never done it. Oh, they're great.

Okay, we'll plan it. I'll come out to Newport. You've got to come to Newport anyway. I have a new house. Look for us on the boardwalk. It's a cool spot. Just listen to fucking Bigfoot. But no, it's like in a certain context, like that's amazing, right?

I have friends who suffer from it who served overseas, and for them to have some hope for such a disabling disease, that's incredible. But there's a medical process. One of my clients is a head of clinical psychiatry at Stanford. And she kept me up to date on a lot of the stuff they were doing around psilocybin mushrooms and MDMA. Those were the two biggest things. Big one, yeah. Yeah, and it's like, wow, how amazing is that?

She's like, yeah, they basically make connections in the brain that were more or less broken. She's dumbing it down for me, obviously. But she's like, look, here's the deal. Sometimes some of those connections that get made in people who aren't pre-screened properly are the connections between paranoid and schizophrenic. Next thing you know.

So that's the thing, though, right? They take it one time and they're schizo. Dude, I've heard of it. I know people that just burnt out, So that's the thing, though, right? They take it one time and they're schizo. Dude, I've heard of it. I know people that, you know, they just burnt out. And that's what happens. When I was in high school, there was a long joke. Not a joke, but a story of a guy who did a bunch of LSD or whatever. And he became a glass of orange juice.

I've heard similar things. Have you heard this shit? Yeah. And, like, when you go see him, he's, like, terrified you're going to knock him over because he thinks if he spills, he dies. Yeah. I've heard stories of people really similar that, like, they have to go pour themselves out before they start their day. So they describe their neighbors looking across the lawn at someone just doing like, I'm a little teapot. And it's like, look, here's a drug that's now being prescribed in clinical trials that due to high pressure and social influence.

Look, Joe Rogan, for good or bad, is the most prolific interviewer in the world. He bends Diane Sawyer over his fucking knee and gets a billion downloads. And he sits there and rips blunts with Elon Musk and all of a sudden Colorado is lifting a ban on psilocybin mushrooms within five years of lifting a ban on marijuana.

So it's going to take that level of influence. But it's just hard. If that's what's driving the engine is social influence through podcasts and shit, it's like, guys, we got to get ahead of this. We got to get ahead of this from, like, a medical perspective. And we got to get ahead of this from, like, a litigation perspective. So, yeah, it'll be interesting to see how this develops. Because maybe we won't have to speak in hushed tones in the corner of some event.

I don't give – everybody knows me. I don't give a fuck. I'll sit here and just scream this shit if I have to. I don't care. Next time we do it, it's going to be up on the main stage. Yeah. You should have saw the stuff I was talking about earlier with Jordan and Mike's macros. We were talking about ridiculous things. Yeah, it's good, though, man.

It's like people are so sensitive to it. Everyone gets all the drugs. It's like, look, it exists whether you like it or not, man. It's the objective truth. You can run from it or believe it doesn't exists whether you like it or not, man. It's the objective truth. You can run from it or believe it doesn't happen. I don't care what you believe. This is what's happening. So I know that you travel around and do seminars, obviously.

Yeah. What else can people, where can people find you, find some information? So, I mean, Instagram's a big one. And this is obviously not what you specialize in. You do all sorts of cool shit. This is kind of a side project. So my background is in applied biomechanics and sports performance. I'm a chiropractor by trade as strength and conditioning coach at Stanford University. I own two clinical practices in

the Bay Area and I started a company called Prescript.com. So we're an education-based company in the fitness industry. We spend a lot of our time now fulfilling our contracts around developing more cerebral curriculum for in-house personal training across large corporation gyms so our biggest one is going to be good life fitness in canada so they contracted us to basically overhaul their education prerequisites for upskilling their personal trainers so just gaining a little more depth and breadth across kind of how these trainers look at the human body rather than just like you know your initial offering of like a two-day personal training

course so that's kind of our main focus now and a lot of what i speak on is developing curriculum and actually implementing that curriculum to the level of the trainer from gym to gym with good life i do it also for a gym called Ultimate Performance. It's more international, so that'll have us in Mumbai, Dubai, Singapore, Hong Kong, Sydney, Amsterdam, Manchester, London. I know. I've seen you traveling around quite a bit. Yeah. It's the nature of the business, man. And education in this space.

I hope you spend some time to enjoy yourself and not just being out. Oh, dude, man. I don't work, bro. I either work 168 hours a week or I don't work at all. I can't really tell. This is quote, unquote't work at all. I can't really tell. Like this is quote unquote work. Yeah. I'm going to write the shit off of the food I buy because this is like, oh, this is a business expense.

Yeah. But no, that's a large part of what I've been up to in the last 18 months and will continue on into next year. So, yeah, if you want to get in contact with me, Instagram is usually the best way to find kind of what I'm about. Again, this conversation was almost more of a passion project. Yeah, a fun thing. There's not many people that we can talk to that are knowledgeable on the subject, so that's why I got excited to talk to you. I'm sure that you have your own podcast. Right, yeah.

RX Radio, again, the nice part about traveling is I'm always in a different city with different people with different opinions, which is great. We kind of stick more in the wheelhouse of applied biomechanics, sports performance, which is great. Again, we kind of stick more in the wheelhouse of like applied biomechanics, sports performance, things like that. But, yeah, the website, prescript.com, Instagram, at the underscore muscle underscore doc and podcast, RX Radio. So it will be all over next year and hopefully moving into 2021. So, yeah.

And one more time, your Instagram is? At the underscore muscle underscore doc, D-O-C. The muscle doc, guys. You guys go check him out. He has a bunch of cool stuff on there. Check out his website. Hope you guys enjoyed the show. Make sure that when you do love the show, because I know you're going to, this is a good one,

that you tag myself and the Muscle Doc. Let us know that you loved it. I'll see you guys next week. Over and out.