Barbell Shrugged - [Listener QA] Eating for Performance vs. Longevity, Managing Stress Hormones, Coaching Professional Athletes, and Micronutrient Depletion, Anders Varner, Doug Larson, Travis Mash and Dan Garner Barbell Shrugged #648

Episode Date: June 29, 2022

In today’s episode of Barbell Shrugged you will learn:     What is the most optimal way to time micronutrients for better sleep? How can the average person get tested to get an idea on their stress hormones?  How to position your services to work with professional athletes? What are the major similarities and differences in eating for performance vs. longevity. The most effective way to taper for a competition. What micronutrients are depleted by using ADHD medication?       Connect with our guests:   Anders Varner on Instagram   Doug Larson on Instagram   Coach Travis Mash on Instagram   Dan Garner on Instagram   ————————————————    Diesel Dad Mentorship Application: https://bit.ly/DDMentorshipApp   Diesel Dad Training Programs: http://barbellshrugged.com/dieseldad   Please Support Our Sponsors   Eight Sleep - Save $150 on the Pod Pro and Pod Pro Cover   Organifi - Save 20% using code: “Shrugged” at organifi.com/shrugged   BiOptimizers Probitotics - Save 10% at bioptimizers.com/shrugged   Garage Gym Equipment and Accessories: https://prxperformance.com/discount/BBS5OFF Save 5% using the coupon code “BBS5OFF”

Shrug family, this week on Barbell Shrugged, me and Dan Garner and Travis Mash sit down and do a listener Q&A. All these questions come directly from you. There are people that I talk to on the phone on a daily basis about Rapid Health Report, as well as some Instagram posts that we've been putting out. Friends, it's been very cool seeing how much of you are engaged with the content that we're putting out. I do have one ask. If you would like to really support the show, head over to iTunes. Give us a five-star review.

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So just go to masszymes.com forward slash shrugged free now to get your exclusive free products. Let's get into the show. Welcome to Barbell Shrugged. I'm Anders Varner, Travis Mash, Dan Garner. That was so awkward to say. Doug Larson is out there in the middle of the desert in Zion right now walking on trails with Andy Galpin. That's messed up.

Didn't want to bring us. We didn't get invited to that one. I don't want to go to that. We were all in Vegas last week, and now these guys are going back. Didn't we have enough vacation last weekend? Come on, guys. Yeah, to be fair, I'm trying to gain weight for a 405 bench right now. I don't want to walk and not eat anything for a week.

So I'm pretty happy just being right here. Everybody listening right now should know Dan Garner is extra thick. And the last person you want to put in the backseat of a car with you because three dudes, grown size, do not sit in the back of a Toyota Corolla too well on the way to the Vegas Strip. It doesn't work out. My man's eating too much, getting too strong these days. He's looking yoked.

Right? When is the date that you're going to do this? Technically, I mean, if my periodization goes right i'm about eight weeks out so if i can uh dude that's gonna be rocking allerton for your seminar is that when it's gonna be i haven't even done that actual math yet that's like eight weeks out oh which everybody tell people when they where they can find your seminar what are you guys doing there yeah yeah go yeah. Galpin and I, we're doing a seminar for the first time ever. We're really unveiling the method that we've used to create world champions across many different professional sports and really what's allowed us to create

a career based on referrals due to reputation. It's a system that's repeatable that absolutely works. And this is an in-person only event. We're going to be in Fullerton, August 13th and 14th. You'll be able to find it through the link in my bio on Instagram. Okay. I'm going to try to cancel mine. I'm going to try to. I'm going to beg today because I want to come again. Don't worry.

If you go and do your USA Level 2 seminar, you'll be doing the second coolest seminar that's happening in the no i won't because it's what usa tells me to do by going and teaching another weightlifting seminar or so much or come kick it in an airbnb i want to know so much yeah okay i mean i'm literally begging today to like um i actually saw that question come up when you put this on Instagram the other day. That leads into that really well. And I also really want people to go to your seminar. But one of the questions that was on Travis's thing is,

how do you start working with professional athletes? And, Din, that probably is a really – I mean, both of you guys have worked with many professional athletes. But you're kind of a system. So I'd love to hear what both of your past, Travis, I know you've worked with, obviously, professional Olympic weightlifters at this point, but many people in the NFL. NFL, NBA, Major League Baseball. Yeah, so I'm kind of adding an extra question in here just because I saw it.

What has been your path to reaching what uh many consider to be like the pinnacle of elite athletics um you want to go for it i mean yeah well first off you got to be you got to have something that makes you stand out like when someone is you know 10 years deep in the nfl they're not just going to go to you because they like you or because you happen to be near them. They're going to go because you have something extra, something that they have to gain that's going to either give them mostly, once they've been in there for a while, what's going to keep them there and hopefully improve.

But when someone's 10 years deep, they're trying to stay there is a big key. What can you give them you better know your science you know it it won't be based on because i was mr power lifter they don't care so it's got it's got to be something that you can give them and you can quantify and you can show them how you'll quantify it and what they can expect and you gotta have a good reputation so you do need to get that first one under your belt. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So I think just to add to that, I would just say at the end of the day, if you want to work with professional athletes, you're never ever going to escape the reality that you need to get results and you need to get results fast. That's just as someone is trying to

take my job every single day, like working with actors, working with professional athletes. A lot of people think that's cool and that's because it is. But the problem with that is because you get an enormous amount of responsibility with it. Somebody is pitching to them every day and you need to be getting results to where that athlete doesn't listen to that pitch. That person wants to stay with you. And that's ultimately what's going to allow you to work your way up in the industry is purely being results focused rather than to that pitch. That person wants to stay with you. And that's ultimately what's going to allow you to work your way up in the industry is purely being results focused rather than belief focused, because mash is totally right. You need to be able to show them something that's quantifiable, whether it was velocity, whether it was strength, whether it was injury reduction,

whether it was their testosterone, whether it was a metric of recovery capacity, whatever it's going to be, you absolutely need to be results focused. And it also doesn't hurt to get to know some agents along the way, because they're the ones that are actually going to hook you up with a lot of professional athletes. So if you if you have the opportunity to work with a professional athlete, then collect as much quantifiable results focused data as you can. But then that's your presentation to the agent. So then you actually just show that because the agent's going to look at the numbers. That's the one who's actually going to take time to really break that down. And then that agent becomes a free referral source for you for the rest of your life, provided you can do your job.

Totally. Dave, you know, Dave Spitz from Cal Strength, like literally makes his living in those like eight weeks prior to the NFL combine. And he got to know an agent, you know, he obviously could show them, here's the things I can do. And then he saw great results. Now he can literally work, you know, eight weeks a year and that's it. If he wants to.

So there's a big payoff, but you know, weeks a year and that's it if he wants to so there's a big payoff but you know one of the big risk one of the things that i think uh especially trainers or coaches that are coming up like getting very good at one specific thing i think is an insanely important piece of it um i think most people listening to the show know that i like trained with cena and have had many um like pro athletes come through the gym when I owned it in San Diego, just mainly because of location. But I always thought that I was like fighting for my job in a way when those people came in and that it had to be the best experience because they could go and train anywhere. And every single gym in town would take them like yeah they live there but they didn't have to train at my place um and i'm also

not travis mash i'm also not dan garner um and i think it's really important to understand like what is your special sauce as a coach or as a training partner or or why is that person going to come back and how are you making it such a special experience every single time that they show up, that they keep coming back. And it's not because you have the coolest bumper plates. It's not because you have like the best barbells. Like every Aliko barbell in the world is not going to get the person that is a world-class athlete to stay at your place. What is going to matter is that when they walk in, you treat them like a professional. You very much take the secondary role, and your job is to make sure that they have everything that they need to have the best training session because as soon as you stop doing that, you're

screwed. You're gone. They're going to go to the place that's going to take care of them because you might lift weights because you think it's fun and it gets you lean. They lift weights because their body makes them money, not a little bit. And as soon as you start messing with that dollar sign, you're gone. They're going to leave immediately. As soon as the culture starts to fail a little bit, as soon as they don't feel like they're getting taken care of, as soon as the vibe isn't right or the music isn't right, and they're not getting the workouts that they want, they're gone and they're gone immediately. You don't have to be a blood work person. You don't have to be

the power lifting world champion person. You don't have to be the fun person, but you should really look at yourself as a professional and wonder why people are working with you and figure that question out and then go all in on that. Because at some point, some professional athlete is going to walk into your gym or into your life. and if you don't have that self-work, if you haven't put the time into that, to knowing why you're special in the training industry, it's not going to work out well because they're going to read through that. They hear thousands of people a year telling them why they're great.

They don't need the words. They need you to show up, put the work in, and feel like they're in a place that matters. Can I get an amen? I would add one more thing to what we've all said is like you should never be at a place where you feel like you know your system where your knowledge is you know is where it should be like even in the last few weeks you know in months i should say now of meeting dan like i i joke about this running list I'm looking at. It's a long list of notes I've taken on this show because I understand, you know, I understand my weakness too. Physiology, I'm okay, but I'm not Dan. But now my goal is to like get there, you know.

And so, but like when it comes to biomechanics and when it comes to athlete monitoring, I feel very good minus the blood testing. And so I've learned so much. And like, I feel like instead of like having this pride that you feel like your system is superior, I would say you should have this fear that somebody is better than you and never stop trying to be better. That's what I would, the thought that somebody might be better than me scares me to death and keeps me up at night. And so I just won't have it. Yeah, I absolutely love that. And I would also add, there's a huge element to of, of kind of cringiness, when somebody doesn't realize that they are working for their athletes, and it's not their athlete working for them. If you're trying to get selfies with them and tag

them and try that is nothing will get them out of there faster than if you act like they're little fan, you are an authoritative coach and they need to see, feel, and know that, that you, they are following your system. They are under your rules that will earn you so much more respect than you obviously trying to gain more followers and recognition and noise by leveraging them. Okay. You work, you know, you were the, uh, you're working for your athletes. The athlete is not working for you. Yeah. Unfortunately, that's so true. And one day my kids are going to grow up and I'm going to be like, I trained with that guy for four years and there's zero pictures to show for it.

Yeah. I got to trust you. I know, right? This one's going to be much more to you, Dan. How can the average person get testing to get an idea on their stress hormones? I've been in survival mode for years. How can I start to get a handle on what's going on and how to work on my body chemistry? So, I mean, people always say this, like, hey, what can the average guy do? What can the regular guy do? Look, blood chemistry

is still the king. I don't know how many times I got to say that. The lab doesn't provide the value. The interpreter of the lab provides the value. Everybody can get a blood chemistry. You just got to take that to somebody who knows how to read that for the context of your goals and does it at a high level. They need to be up to date with the scientific literature. They need to have a bunch of experience in the context of your goal. And that's what's going to give you a ton of insight. So when somebody asks like, hey, I've been in survival mode, I've been in stress mode, what tests should I do? If you're qualifying yourself as the average guy, I'm guessing that in some way or shape or form represents an average income.

Absolutely everybody on the planet can afford a blood chemistry and lots of times it's free. So you want to look at your blood chemistry and there's a ton of clues on there, a ton. Like for example, with respect to stress, one of the biggest things that you can look at is your sodium to potassium ratio. So there's a, there's a adrenal, adrenal physiology is something that we've done whole podcasts on in the past, and I'm sure we'll do more on in the future, but there's a mineral corticoid secreted from the adrenals known as aldosterone. And aldosterone, one of its primary jobs is to reabsorb sodium from the kidneys and excrete potassium

from the body. So that's one of its jobs. There's sodium in the kidneys and your body basically says, hey, you know, that sodium is still good stuff. We should get that out of the kidneys, get it back into serum because we can still use it for a ton of things. But there is a lack of aldosterone output. What you'll see is sodium excretion and potassium retention. So one of the best evidence-based ways to identify total stress load and how long that person's been under stress in physiology is their sodium to potassium ratio. And that sodium to potassium ratio, there's way more sodium in serum than there is potassium. Typically, sodium will be like anywhere from 138 to 145, potassium anywhere from like 3.8 to 4.8

ish. So we're talking, you know, 140 to four. And that's because a lot of sodium hangs out in serum, whereas potassium is more intracellular. So there's just a natural ratio there. But what people can do, because aldosterone is a mineral corticoid created from the adrenals, if there is way low output from aldosterone, we can create inferences that there is low output from the adrenals as a whole. So then we look at this ratio to confirm our hypotheses in this area. And you're typically looking at 32 to 34. If your ratio is between 32 and 34 of sodium to potassium, so say that 140 to four, if that is around 32 to 34, like that is absolutely an indicator of poor adrenal output, which means you

have had a total stress load for an extended period of time. That's on two markers on the most basic lab in the world. And that alone is one of the most evidence-based ways in which you can identify total stress load on physiology. But then you can look at other things too, like glucose. Glucose is really really low one of the things cortisol does which is a stress hormone staying in context with the question one of the things cortisol does is increase blood glucose that's one of its primary jobs so if we have really low glucose in combination with an offset sodium to potassium ratio that's two huge clues now that we have low aldosterone output and low cortisol output.

And then you can start to actually, okay, this physiology is under stress. We have identified that. Now you begin to ask the question, why? Because stress is always reactant. So where is the root cause of that thing coming from? But if you want to see if your physiology has been stressed, the most basic lab in the world is a huge indicator. And there are more markers as well, like certain white blood cell components, because we've discussed Th1 versus Th2 balance in immune system function and the cortisol's role in that in the past. That's also on a basic blood chemistry as well. So that's really what I would say. I'd say start, I'll just tell

you what I do. I start with the sodium potassium ratio, like one of the biggest things and most rock solid things because fasting plasma glucose can be variable. It's just an added thing you can point towards a consensus that somebody's physiology is stressed, but that's absolutely where I would start. And that's where I start with my professional athletes too. It's not just what I do for the average guy. Yeah. I would tell people to start with your nutrition mentorship and then go get their own blood work done and use themselves as a client first and tinker with things because you can get your blood drawn, you know, twice a year and you'll get really good before and afters and, and go figure it out. And it doesn't take a decade plus of learning this whole thing

to actually just go and do it. It just takes a week and then, or not a week, it's going to take a month or so to get through your course, but you get the blood work done and then you can go tinker with it. You can find the things that you need fixed and then you go and do research on which adaptogens or what, what supplements are going to help what, what micronutrient deficiencies are going to help. Like, uh, it's not bad that people want the answers. Uh, but if you want to learn and you want to do this on your own, you have to go just be curious and start, start testing yourself. Um, i think that people just always want the answers uh which you can't get that's why we have our program it's but if you if if you're the average person and uh

can't get into the program for whatever reason um it's you gotta go you gotta go learn yeah because after that of course like yeah of course you can look at salivary cortisol you can look at circadian rhythm markers you can look at salivary melatonin you can look at all these other things that are great presentations of total stress load um i even have my own proprietary resilience score that i provide people which is a combination of inflammation immune system functions co2 tolerance and hormone status which is an enormous representation of your resiliency to incoming stressors. And if it's very high, you have excellent resiliency. If it's very low, you have undergone a total stress load over an extended period of time and your physiologic

resilience is at an all-time low. That's something, those are very cool things you can do with more labs, but don't count out the blood chemistry it's always going to be king yeah trap smash next question's gonna be aimed right at you the uh how do you taper for a competition i'm assuming this is an olympic weightlifting or powerlifting yeah either one i mean you know what you're gonna have to do is is like got to drop the volume. I recommend not dropping the intensity too much. So intensity meaning the load. Yeah. I would say this would probably go for even like, you know, whatever you're doing, running, biking, whatever.

So you drop the volume, you know, to a level. Man, there's new research out that you can drop it up to 40, maybe between 40 and even 60 percent and get no negative feedback but yet get this big bounce back approach you know so that's the whole um thing that we're all after is to drop it down and get this big bounce bounce back you know um that's where i'm looking for it they um totally blanking out but like um ah whatever super training iting out, but like, ah, whatever. Super training, it's in there. But like you're looking for, you know, you've gotten, you've had all this stress. Super compensation?

Yeah, there we go. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. So we've had all this stress this entire time. And so now you've got to drive it down and see the results. The key, now here's some, here's some cooler parts of that, is that every time you do it you should

really take good notes we have really you know with ryan for example we what we do is we look at a front squat three days out and we work up to 0.45 meters per second in velocity shout out jim aware and so and then we know at that point if we hit it on the nail. And now that we've done that so many times, it's almost like unless something happens, like he gets hurt or some girlfriend, please God no. But, like, you know, I know now how to taper him, and I know what's going to happen when he does the squat. And if something does go wrong, I know to go talk to him and be like,

all right, you're not telling me something. But, like, if he hits a certain number at.45 meters per second, I'm confident I know what's talk to him and be like, all right, you're not telling me something. But like if he hits a certain number at 0.45 meters per second, I'm confident I know what's about to happen. And lately, everyone can agree it happens. So measure everything you can measure. Measure like, you know, I look at effect size. So that's kind of a look at the last seven days. But at that point, you want to look at acute to chronic,

which is more of like 21 to 28 days. And you want to drop it to a certain degree. And it depends on the person. Girls, you probably don't want to drop as much as a guy. And there you have it. The key is measuring. To put it simply, here's what we would do in weightlifting. If you're competing on Saturday, on a Monday,

you would work up to an opener on the snatch, a last warm-up on the clean and jerk, and that's it. So the intensity is fairly high, but the volume is super low because you're working up to one rep. Then we're going to go to, you know, that's when I'm going to do a pretty decent front squat, like, but it's not the 0.45 meters per second. We might work up to a 0.5 and then do some drop down speed sets.

And we still do pulls that day. Wednesday's the day we do the 0.45. And, you know, we see that's how I measure it. I look and I see because by then we've already started the tapering process and we look and see, is it working? So if he hits a big number at 0.45 meters per second, which someone said, why would you want to go heavy? But 0.45 is like 85%. It's really not heavy.

It's just, I can look at that number and see if it's up. I know 0.4, 0.3 is up as well. And so, you know, because I've tracked it so many months already. So that's as simple as it puts, you know, it's, you know, girls don't do it as much, you know, but like how much that's it, that comes up to you keeping records and knowing what works for you. For sure. Yeah. Like that. This is something that I do a bunch with my athletes too. And you're right.

Like it's kind of, no matter what, there's tapering and peaking regardless of your sport, if it's going to be hockey, if it's going to be power lifting. The way I like to explain it to them is basically just the fitness fatigue model. You've done all of this work across an off season to increase your specific fitness. But because of all that work, you've also increased your fatigue. And now that your fatigue and fitness are on the

same level, I call it dormant performance. Because yes, you've increased your specific fitness in an area. But because of the fatigue you've accumulated, it is nullifying that increase in fitness. So the job of the taper and peak is to perform only enough volume to maintain your specific fitness while allowing this fatigue to begin to dissipate. And then you have that so-called peak in performance. And then that's when you're going to see increases in testosterone, reductions in cortisol, improvements in glycogen status. A lot of your wear and tear. Like if you had an elbow, it's just like, God, this stuff kind of, it starts to go away and you start to just feel

more and more like a monster and weights that used to feel heavy when you're fatigued, master fitness are now feeling light. And now emotionally and psychologically, you're ready to rock and roll. And that's when you know that you've really nailed it. Yeah. I would say lately too, I've learned what I would add to that too, is that's a good time to really work on, you know, if you've been working on breathing and if you haven't, I'm convinced now you should, whether you're a weightlifter, no matter what you're doing, I would recommend really starting to understand the breathing process, you know, so you can try to shift things. Cause you've been so sympathetic for so long, trying to shift it down and to make the most out of that, you know, so you can try to shift things because you've been so sympathetic for so long, trying to shift it down and to make the most out of that, you know, super compensation or that tapering process. And now I'm convinced too, ice cold too, like strategically placing that during that week as well and trying to maximize recovery because that's the goal then is to drop the fatigue as low as possible.

And also too is the anxiety. It's like interpretation of anxiety. This is like, if you don't have a sports psychologist, you should get one. It's not like because you're lacking, it's just another tool, but being able to interpret like Ryan, I'll tell you why he's so much better than everyone else. It's not, yeah, he's gifted, but there's other people just as gifted. However, on competition day, he perceives anxiety, that pre-competition anxiety, as a superpower. Other people say, oh, shit, I'm nervous. It's the interpretation.

So the breathing, the eyes, all of that helps with that moment as well. There's a lot stacked into that. Now we have done a lot more than we used to do to make the most out of that final you know week to 10 days yeah you mentioned Travis going up to uh like their last warm-up weight um are you pretty specific to that because I remember for everyone that we coached Olympic weightlifting like the last week we would just try and hit openers specifically for confidence at whatever body weight that they needed to come into. They're basically the same

number, but is that something that you stay away from whatever weights that they're going to be lifting on the platform? No, we'll do like an opener in the snatch and the last warmup in the clean and jerk. So something that's technical, you're a hundred percent like snatch, but like, you know, a clean and jerk, no matter what people want to make it, it's if you've been lifting since you were 14, like Ryan, it's not technical. I mean, it's like, he knows how to clean and jerk. So you don't need that touching. Now there are times like when we, when we were in Greece and he hit his opener and it was so easy, we went one more because it helped me make a decision too.

And it was the right decision. Like we opened higher than we planned because he smashed 35. We're like, went to 140. He smashed 140. I didn't need to know anything else. I just knew that we were about to roll some heads and we did. And so like,

so I shifted my decision based on what I was seeing. Yeah. So, and I kept monitoring. We monitored the front squat in velocity the entire time, even up to two days prior. It might be light, but it's still giving me markers. And there's a really cool formula you can use to predict 1RMs.

How are you tracking kind of like the emotional side of it? You mentioned the stress and anxiety leading up to it. I find that stuff really interesting on sports where it's like today we have a game. Where in like hockey, we play twice a week. You don't really have that like, oh, it's game day. I'm freaking out. Oh, and then I'm going to go home and I'm going to freak out again. And weightlifting and powerlifting, it's like you have a day maybe three times a year where you have to be the best you can be. And all of your training comes to that specific day.

How do you manage or monitor really just like the stress and anxiety that comes along? I mean, athletes are head cases, many of them, especially in weightlifting where you're staying in front of all the people. It's just you. And we got like one day, three lifts to go and see if you did the right thing. See, we got it. We use velocity because like, you know, fatigue is a measurement of stress. And like if stress is high and you're not dealing with it, your ability to reduce force goes down. And so, you know, we look at that with velocity. We also take a jump mat.

So, you know, jump mat is obviously going to be a little bit more neurological. However, after listening to that Huberman and Andes, I'm going to start a tap test to start looking at more of the upper neural, you know, test versus just like lower because the upper is a better look at more of the cns is what kibberman said and so i'm going to do my own research and we do a subjective questionnaire the entire time yeah so if i see something you know i'm going to go to this to the questionnaire and i'm going to look and find out what that thing is which opens me up to a conversation with the person so let's say that maybe they're going through exams which happens like ryan has had to compete during exam week which sucks but that's life but then um he's

or if there's a breakup a death in the family like you know believe it or not that boy won't talk until you talk to him like he's just a quiet individual but i see that i can go say i'm like something's up and i see on your questionnaire x so let's talk about it so that's how we do it yeah I don't do blood tests I do obviously Brian does you know with with these guys and that definitely give us some good um it really changed him by the way Dan and I'll just say that to everyone like when he saw that his testosterone was so high and that he still had so much room for growth it oh it it helped with buy-in to say look you're not there's still more to go so you're a superman

now you could be super superman you know so yeah it really helps that's a fun fun six months um next question what micronutrients are depleted with ADHD medication? I'm curious about this one. Yeah, there's many ADHD medications, but take it away, Dan. Yeah, sure. So when it comes to micronutrient depletions, so just across the board, don't even ask me, go to mitavin.com. That's a M-Y-T-A-V-I-N.com. It's a completely free resource. You can type in any medication there and it will tell you the drug induced nutrient depletion. Boom, done. So that's a, that's a resource that I use all the time.

Actually, I'll give you two resources. So mytavin is excellent for drug induced nutrient depletions, but then there's another website just called drugs.com. And at that website, you can type in any medication, and it'll give you interactions. So, if your medication negatively interacts with vitamin D, it will tell you. If it negatively interacts with fish oil, it'll tell you. Or if it negatively interacts with alcohol, it will tell you. So these are things that almost 100 times out of 100, your doctor just won't tell you. They won't tell you about drug-induced nutrient depletions. And they won't tell you about interactions because they don't even ask you what supplements

are on. So you can have very, very negative interactions. For example, I just had an Instagram influencer girl I worked with about two weeks ago. And she came to me with a lot of thyroid issues. But one of the medications that she was taking, actually, dramatically, actually, it was an enormous interaction between them, it medication being absorbed very poorly when co consumed with iron, but also the iron being very poorly consumed when when very poorly when co-consumed with iron, but also the iron being very poorly consumed when, when very poorly absorbed rather when co-consumed with the medication. So there is this enormous nulling effect that was taking place where her medication wasn't as active as

it otherwise would be, but then also she wasn't getting in as much iron. And for a menstruating female, that is absolutely critical. And when you want to drop body fat, just think about this whole situation, right? You get an Instagram influencer girl who has thyroid problems. So she's already going to have quite a bit of trouble getting lean because thyroid is one of the prime drivers for driving a high metabolism. But if you have a medication that reduces iron absorption, well then, and that medication also when co-consumed with iron doesn't work as well. Now we have a medication that's not working as well. So her metabolism isn't going to be as high as it otherwise would be. But now we

also have less iron in the body and less iron in the body. This is actually another, to go back to the first question, the guys asked me about total stress load. Some people think that they have, you know, adrenal fatigue doesn't exist, but I'm going to use it for the purpose of communication. Some people think that they have some form of adrenal problem just because they're really tired, but really they're only really tired because they don't have a lot of iron. If you do not have a lot of iron, fatigue is the number one symptom of that. And that's because it's required for the synthesis of red blood cells. Red blood cells are what carry oxygen around the body. And what is fat loss?

It's called beta oxidation. You do not burn fat unless you have oxygen present within the mitochondria in the electrical transport chain to make that thing happen. So this girl comes to me, her thyroid medication is working less because of the co-consumed iron. And then she's also not getting in as much iron. So beta oxidation is absolutely going to suffer and she's going to be more fatigued. So not only is her resting metabolic rate lower because she has less thyroid medication, but even with the resting metabolic rate that she had left over, she's more fatigued. So her energy expenditure is going to be less. What do you do?

Yeah, it's, it's, it's no, it just goes right back to go to drugs.com. I, and you quantify, oh, wow, you have been consuming this with red meat the whole time. You've been taking red meat for iron and you've been taking this at the same time for your medication. You had absolutely no idea that there was a nullification effect. Yes. Or if you're taking it with your multivitamin, that is a nullification effect. So just this, like, I know I went off, I didn't really answer the question, but it's so important for everybody

to understand. Yeah. Yeah. Mitobin is huge for drug induced nutrient depletions. Drugs.com is huge for checking interactions. And that alone,, just that, I could have improved her physiology by saying, hey, move this here and move that there, do nothing else. It was that simple. But people just simply don't know this stuff. So that's huge. Now, going back to drug-induced nutrient depletions for ADHD, it's more of a global category of stimulants. Things like Ritalin, things like Adderall, things like these things to try and get you focused.

Psychiatric drugs are quite notorious and it is different per medication. So I'm globalizing here, but they're quite notorious for reducing or depleting rather magnesium and B vitamins because they're very, very prominent in neurotransmitter synthesis. And when you're on drugs to augment neurotransmitters, you're going to be utilizing those micronutrients at a higher rate. But stimulants are also known for reducing nutrients in almost every category. And the reason why is because they blunt appetite. If you are on a stimulant, one of its prime bodybuilders do this all the time. They'll take stimulants, modafinil, for example, to completely murder their appetite so they can get shredded for a show.

So like it, there is a huge appetite suppressant effect. And when you're naturally just eating less food, you're also going to be eating less nutrients on top of the nutrient depletions. So a lot of information there, but go to drugs.com, go to Mitofin and understand that stimulants reduce appetite. So you have to be very important because you can take in all the calories you want, but those calories need to be nutrient dense, especially in the presence of medication. Totally. And like, are you you plus you got to be honest with are you abusing them which happens um i've heard that yeah maybe someone takes more of that kind of like when you're in the middle of your phd program maybe that's happened i've heard says every phd walking on the face of this earth. Why?

Anyway, here we are. Hey, Kiersten, with the hockey training, I went to the NHL Hockey Combine. I got a question. Do you think the highest vertical lead there was 21 inches? Can that be right? I feel like what they were using to test it had to be off. It had to be. Yeah, that seems weak. I took a picture of someone jumping, and it measured this kid at like 13 or 14 inches. And I'm like, I know that's not 13 or 14. I feel like they were using

a certain type of, it was a force plate they were using. I'm like, I think there's no chance that could be correct. Anyway, I wanted to ask you. If you're the expert at hockey, people, I'm like, either they're the worst athletes in the world or some of them are. It's one of the two. Yeah, I can promise you those kids are not the worst athletes in the world. I know. They're like the freakiest human beings playing that game at a speed

that is unimaginable these days. Agreed. So days agreed so like when you agree there had to be a problem there at the at the hockey nhl hockey combine that's a sad so i'm not going to say which force plate it was it wasn't one i used but like yeah i'm not using you by the way if you're listening to our show i'm not using your force plate the way, if you're listening to our show. I'm not using your force plate. I'm questioning it. That's definitely incorrect. I mean, I've read a ton of research in the world of hockey, of course, and one of the prime drivers. So hockey, first off, is a sport of acceleration.

It's rare you'll ever get to top speed. So there's been research done on an NHL game that actually included an overtime. And it was something like in the entire game, an athlete, there was only 17 sprints longer than 25 meters, but there was 94, 15 meters or less. So it is a game of acceleration. You are, by the time you pass the puck or lose the puck or have to turn, it's rare you ever have the opportunity

to get to top speed because the game's moving too fast. So a huge part of dry land training is to train your accelerative movement patterns and what's actually going to drive that. And a ton of research in the world of hockey is that vertical power production is one of the key performance indicators for acceleration and first step quickness. So when, if somebody came to me and they had a 13-inch vertical, I'd be like, okay. You know what? You're screwed. We're doing an all-off season because this is horrible. And, like, you might not have a chance.

Yeah, 13 inches, like, you're the worst athlete on earth. It can't be. Those kids, like, they were doing amazing broad jumps. And so, like, you can't have an amazing broad jump and then zero vertically those two two are very similar most of the time when someone has a 40 inch vertical are they calling it inches yeah it's his man yes i trust me yeah it was it was driving me crazy was that a fun experience though did you enjoy yeah yeah i like those kids too they're like my kind of people you know they're crazy you know they're juniors with no parents for the past yeah

that they were like life awesome 22 and they were like game on let's do this i felt bad since they were 13 14 years old a 30 A 30-second all-out bike ride. They had it curtained off to where you couldn't see them throwing up. It was just – Nobody in the history of sports science has wanted to do a lactate threshold test. I do not. I might do one just to see now that I'm old, but I'm going to cry. Yeah, we did Wingates in college, and just a ton of people got sick.

Just nonstop. Yeah. That's what these old kids are all. Because, you know, this is for their career. This is their future. So they're going all out for those 30 seconds. And they would just literally take them right behind the black curtain. And then, you know, I'm like, God, poor dudes.

It's the easiest way to ruin someone's day that doesn't really know what they're getting into i know actually i got i got a thought well i got a thought that's a great way to ruin someone's vertical was the vertical after no no they did it right and they did a good warm-up like it, it was, you know, and here's statistically, it was impossible. Because, like, there was a bunch of them at 21. And I'm like, I don't know that that is, you know, because you had 130 of the best hockey players in the world because they're from Finland, Sweden, all that. And, like, there was, I don't know how many 21-inch verticals there were. I'm like, statistically, it's just impossible. You don't have how many 21 inch verticals there were. I'm like, statistically it's just impossible.

You don't have that grouping like that. You don't have a grouping of like where 21 is like, you know, 50 people impossible. It's impossible. Anyway, I'm done. Okay.

I just want to make sure that was common. Cause it was driving me insane. I'm like, okay, good. Yeah. I feel better. Um,

we have two more. Hopefully we can get through this one. Cause it's such a massive one. We could even do like an entire show on this but um yeah how do you uh eat for performance versus longevity oh gosh that's such a giant yeah um it's like a it's like two whole shows just going into each one of those, but we can knock it out. All I can say is amount. I mean, but you're the expert, but definitely the amount is going to be a big key right there. Yeah, for sure.

I mean, so we will do a whole show on that. I guess to give people a primer, the first barbell shrug that was ever on is called how to increase your testosterone 300% where I go over a coaching philosophy that I use in my practice. And then I also repeated that philosophy. I believe again, um, when I first became a co-host on a, on a show called, uh, why optimal nutrition begins with the immune system. So I would actually listen to those two because they outline the philosophy, uh, that I've been operating at, which has allowed me to get this many world champions that the body will adapt to the degree that it is healthy. So when people talk like, hey, should I eat for performance or should I eat for health? You don't need to separate the two because an unhealthy person

performs like crap and an unhealthy person has a terrible recovery capacity. So when you are eating for performance, in a lot of ways, you're also eating for health because you're removing any physiologic constraints, whether that be in the microbiome or your inflammation or your blood sugar or your hormone status or your micronutrient status, your antioxidant status. These are all things that will improve performance as a byproduct of improving your health. So I don't necessarily separate those two. So I would actually go ahead and refer you guys to go listen to those two podcasts where I lay it out more thoroughly. The body will adapt to the degree that it is healthy. And not to mention, let's just point out this huge, obvious elephant in the room

that the three greatest predictors of longevity are lower body strength, grip strength, and VO2 max. These are all performance. They're performance-based. So why, hey, I'm going to eat for health or I'm going to eat for performance. Dude, the greatest predictors of longevity are performance-based. Okay? So why do you keep trying to separate these two? Stop it.

Go for both. I would add this, though. Like, you got to talk about what are you talking about performance and what. So, like, a powerlifter lifter they're gonna be healthy but like if you're 275 pound ripped power lifter it's definitely not going to be the best you know that's not a good sign for longevity uh knuckles posted a really good study about like longevity and there's really just not a lot of 200 plus pounds like 80 year olds you know so like that's what i would say depends on you know the size so like eventually you're gonna like you know if you're if you're a strong

man you're 400 pounds as soon as you're done you should probably go to be gives you know get down get lean and like even being lean um the article i'll have to send you guys the the um the research but even a lean 275 poundpound man, because of the heart, because there's going to be enlargements of the heart from the heavy lifting and whatever else you took to get to be 275 pounds. So I would say, based on that research, if you're trying to live a long time, you probably want to start to get below 200 you know but that's what the study said it was like actually it was like

187 pounds is like you know the optimal for longevity of life because you know you do want enough muscle mass as you age because that's going to go down so you don't want to be super skinny when you're like 60 because then you'll wither away but like yeah you know what do you think dan i don't know that's just what this said well nobody has a grandpa who is a 300 pound bodybuilder that's for sure they they don't stay around too long and that's why i like and why i didn't really cover uh you open you opened up this uh answer with uh amount matters so i was like yeah boom because we're, of course, we're not achieving extremes here. And that's why bodybuilders and powerlifters, they go through

hypocalorism and metabolism quite a bit until they achieve a natural, healthy body weight. So I 100% agree with that. There's also other factors such as mTOR, such as a disease factors, such as environmental factors there's huge huge things that go all go into the discussion here but i mean i totally agree no nobody can stay absolutely jacked forever that's too hard on the heart that's what i'm trying to get below 200 for a reason like you know otherwise i'll get huge if i can if i can live to be 90 and be huge i want to be huge but yeah i think a lot of people when they're looking at the performance thing to think that like the the reason like eat big get big matters is because you're 25 and everything is like you're just everything gets processed and turned into muscle and you're trying to get so big so fast

you know once once that thing slows down a little bit like like your mid thirties, just ride the neurological component of being strong. Make sure that you've put the training in and the work in, in your twenties to like have enough muscle and continue to lift weights three to four days a week in a really intelligent way. Um, but you don't need all of the weight. I feel like that was like part of my, like one of the biggest learning lessons, my 30s is like, I don't have to eat like this to be basically the same level of strength that I've had my entire life. Like I'm strong. I'm just as strong now that I would maybe 10% less than when I was the most strong I've ever been or the strongest I've ever been. You just don't need all of that.

When you think about longevity, it's like, how long are we going to play this game for? And what do you actually need to be doing? You don't need to be hanging out at the highest end of maximum volume and focusing on your recovery and all that stuff. If you play the game, you would play if you wanted to do it for 50 years. And most of the time, the logical answer lines up really well with what you should actually be doing. You should have a relatively low body fat, like 13, 16%, somewhere in that like mid range so that if you need to go get lean for some reason, you don't have to, it's not a

six month program you need to be on. Um, like eat the way you would expect a healthy person to eat, like get some salads in there, multiple different meat sources. I think we overthink the same thing so much because you can go down the rabbit holes. Really thinking about over a 30, 40, 50 year program.

The, the daily decisions matter less than the accumulated really good decisions you make. Like each meal and once you get to that body weight and you've developed the sustainability and the lifestyle that goes along with being 187 pounds, as you say, Travis, like it's not that hard to stay at 185 to 190. Right. Like you can, you can hang out in that, in that because you're healthy, you're doing the thing. Like I was telling Dan in Vegas, this is the first year of my life that I've lived in the one eighties since I considered myself to be a strong person. And that's wild. Like that is what I want in my life right now is a very long sustainable path

to being at a body weight where like i'm not like oh man 200 pounds is right around the corner but when i was training really hard and eating everything for a competition to be like i was like trying to get to 200 because then i'd cut to 185 and feel like a freaking monster yeah i don't want to do that at all i don't want to live at 200 pounds i want to live at like 187 i'm trying to come for you that's what i'm trying to do yeah i'm going the other way i'm going dan's got to go bench 405 he's up again uh i'm 33 yeah shit you're 33 do what you want but like i was i was the strongest man in the world at 33 years old and huge. So I'll do what you want, but I'm 49, bro. You're going backwards.

You're going backwards. When was the last time you lived? Travis, that would be the bet that I would love to make. When was the last time, or could you live 12 straight months in the 180s once you get there? Maybe, I don't know. Since high school, I've been there, man. Could you do it now? Could I? I don't know. That's what I've been there, man. Could you do it now?

Could I? I don't know. That's what I'm trying to find out. I'll let you know. Where are you at right now? I'm on my way. Well, I've been 2.11 is pretty much the average right now. So that's down from like 2.21.

We're going to just pass each other. Yeah, yeah. Doesn't it feel good, though, just being down 10 pounds? Yeah. Bro, I feel so much better. I have so much more energy. I didn't even know what the 180s for more than like a week felt like. I would love to get to 180s.

Like nine, and it's incredible. I'm on my way. Like, first goal is I want 205, because then at 205, I could compete at 198 in powerlifting. So I might do that on the way down, you know. Get myself – I mean, that's the only way I think. It's like I can't just say, let's lose weight. I'm like, all right, let's get a 205, then you cut from 198.

It's a game I play for myself. So it's working. Yeah. I think for – like if I was to kind of wrap it up, like the longevity side, which I think I've developed a really good mindset around, is really about your lifestyle. Yeah. It's not like a question on just like specific macronutrients and micros and making sure. It's like do just the little stuff every day.

That we all know to do. Yeah. Like sleep well. Drink water. I was going to say, you know how big not nutrition has to do with this conversation? Yeah. I was going to say, you know how big not nutrition has to do with this conversation? Like stress, stress and sleep, feeling like you're a part of a community, not being socially isolated, getting sunlight. These things are absolutely enormous.

On the training side of things, one of the things that's been like super impactful for me is the value system that I put to each form of exercise. Like if I didn't lift inside 85%, it's like, why did I even show up to the gym? Well, now it's like, I don't really feel like it. I'm going to go for a long walk. And I put the same value to going for a long walk and being outside and getting sunshine as I do as like banging weights as hard as I can, which sounds absurd. But speaking of ADHD, how about you guys at the gym? While I was on a program, you guys were all over the gym. I spent 90 minutes at the squat rack and you guys were like fruit flies going on every

single day. I love machines, man. We went to a legit. Have you been to dragon's lair in Vegas? No, but I'm going to be in Vegas next week. So I'm going to check it out then.

Flex Wheeler owns it, right? Yeah. Oh, wait, now there's two flex wheelers. You guys know that. Am I the only one in the room that knows that you might be the only one in

the room that there's a, there's a white guy and a black guy, Flex Wheelers. Did you know that? I think there's a black guy at Flex Wheelers. Oh, okay. That's the guy I like. He's got a leg. Yeah, the bodybuilder.

Yeah. You got a leg. We're screwing this up. We're screwing this up. Flex Lewis owns that gym. Flex Wheeler is the black guy. Flex Lewis is the white guy who's the 212 multiple time awesome bodybuilder flex wheeler's the other bodybuilder gotcha flex lewis owns

dragons there there you go for the record flex wheeler's the best of all time all right he has uh the dragon player has every my favorite thing about going to any bodybuilding gym is they've got 75 different ways to do legs they've got literally five different ways to do back like you can just it's a field day and what do us meatheads do as soon as we get in there i've never trained with dan i trained with andy what do we do we walk right over to the squat rack and do the same crap that you can do we do in our garage because you just oh i don't want to be uncomfortable hanging out over the hamstring curl section i gotta go squat i gotta be a single thing i'm

very good at now i mean i'll go do that to let everybody know hey i'm the strongest and then i'll go on like you know it's like you know you it's like as a dog you go and pee on your tree let everybody know this is my tree. And then I go and enter their world. There's nothing better than back, I mean, than back and chest together. You just get this massive pump. Your arms get pumped. Nothing makes me happier.

Nothing makes me happier than when I'm in a bodybuilding gym and I see this like big machine taking up quite a bit of real estate. And then I go in to see what it is. And it's a preacher curl. I'm like, nice. Just an enormous piece for biceps. I'm like, hell yeah, dude. We did. I don't even remember what the actual name was like. Laying on your back, inverted squats. The vertical leg press. Vert press literally galpin and i did two sets both of us tweaked our backs within the first uh eight reps and then we were out man for the other people that hate on stewart mcgill i really question you guys i'm gonna say right now yeah yes you're back on a vertical leg press. I wonder why. Yeah, it took less than 16 reps for us to both walk away and go, never again.

You know what you'll never see is you'll never see somebody 40 years old plus hating on Stuart McGill. People who have been in the game long enough know that lumbar flexion is not a good idea. It's just not, man. You got to do whatever you want. Yeah. The problem was literally like I'm in there. I've never done it before. Of course we have to go put like a 45 on each side because what else am I going to do?

And then next thing you know, I'm like, is this like a squat? Because if you do a deep squat, your knees are literally like in your throat by the time you squat them. And your pelvis and low back are just like there. Yeah, if you were to think about that while standing, it's literally the dumbest position you could ever put yourself in. It really is. But because it's a machine, we had to go try it out.

We had to get our quad pump. That's why I was on the squat rack. If you can lock in your pelvis and your low back,'s okay but then it's like there's no point to the over click at that point so why do it what about that big machine hammer strength used to make a machine the size of a room to do legs it was like a leg machine it was like some kind of squat dude it was literally like a pyramid it was so big you had to walk up steps to get in i love these things yeah i remember seeing that and be like okay you've gone way too far too man we did i love hammer strength serious pecs in there oh yes i haven't been on a peck

deck in a long time i remember remember being in Florida on spring break, and there was a gym with hamsters. And we go in there until we literally can't move our upper bodies. Then you go out on the beach, and you just feel so jacked. Dan Garner, where can people find you? You can find me at DanGarnerNutrition on Instagram. And make sure you go look at his courses over there too. Yes.

Yeah, yeah. Go to courses at coachgarner.com. And if you want some blood work, go to insidetracker.com slash Garner. There it is. Sweet. Trout and smash. Mashalead.com. You can get my weightlifting cert at Stronger Experts.

Yeah. You guys slayed on that. We did, sir. Continue to slay. Go hang out with Doug Larson. He's out in Zion right now with Galpin at Douglas E. Larson on Instagram. I'm Anders Varner at Anders Varner. We are Barbell Shrugged at Barbell underscore shrug. Make sure you get over to rapidhealthreport.com if any of the blood work and deep diagnostics

in this podcast resonated with you and you want to see what it looks like when Dan breaks down all of your labs. You can see him read mine over there. It's rapidealthreport.com. Friends, we'll see you guys next week.