Barbell Shrugged - [Listener QA] How to Improve Mitochondrial Function, Strength Training for Jiu Jitsu, Is Sauna or Cold Plunge Good for Recovery, and Kidney Markers , w/ Anders Varner, Doug Larson, Travis Mash and Dan Garner Barbell Shrugged #651

Episode Date: July 20, 2022

In today’s episode of Barbell Shrugged we cover:   How to balance jiu jitsu and strength training. Sport specific training versus broad general fitness training. Benefits and drawbacks of sauna or cold plunge post workout. Building a menu of down regulation and recovery techniques. How to improve Mitochondrial Function. Blood work markers for kidney function.   To learn more, please go to https://rapidhealthreport.com   Connect with our guests:   Anders Varner on Instagram   Doug Larson on Instagram   Coach Travis Mash on Instagram   Dan Garner on Instagram   ————————————————    Please Support Our Sponsors   Eight Sleep - Save $150 on the Pod Pro and Pod Pro Cover   Organifi - Save 20% using code: “Shrugged” at organifi.com/shrugged BiOptimizers Probitotics - Save 10% at bioptimizers.com/shrugged

Shrug family, this week on Barbell Shrug, Dan Garner, Doug Larson, and myself, we're going to walk you through how you can balance your jiu-jitsu training, which is like the coolest sport ever right now. So many people are transitioning into jiu-jitsu. I feel like it's been around forever, obviously, but now it's like the wave of CrossFit and restraint training, and that could really be applied to sport training as a whole. Thoughts on sauna and cold plunge, improving mitochondrial function, and kidney markers in your blood work. These shows have been super cool. This is our second one. Andy and Dan and I just did another one out in Boulder at a conference we were at this weekend. But all these are compiled just from questions that we get through social media, through our email. There's a billion ways for you to get a hold of us. And we just

write a big list as they come through so that we can knock them out kind of in real time. A lot of these things are too much information for us to be writing a DM back to you. And maybe not complex enough that we need to spend an entire hour beating down, um, a question that we can answer. So maybe in like 15 minutes or so. Um, and they're super fun because you guys end up leading the show. And if you have any, uh, questions that you'd like us to get to, our plan is to do one or two of these every month. And if you have any questions, you should absolutely hit me up on Instagram at Anders Varner.

You can send us a message at the show. We actually have a Rapid Health Report Instagram at Rapid Health Report. So you can head over there. We haven't done a ton with it. But as we get some more time, as we start to dive into social media, there's gonna be a lot of information going up over there.

So make sure you go follow Rapid Health Report. Shoot me a message at Anders Varner. And, of course, if you head over to iTunes right now, leave a five-star review. Write something nice about the show. It really helps everybody get the information that they need. It helps the show grow. And we super appreciate you. Before we get into the show today, I want to thank our sponsors.

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Let's get into the show. Welcome to Barbell Shrugged. I'm Andrew Dvarner, Doug Larson, Dan Garner. Travis Mash is somewhere with all the strongest kids in the country. Back-to-back-to-back national champion coach. Has anybody in the NCAA ever showed up and then won three national championships right away and potentially just going to win the rest of them forever like Mash has? That guy's an absolute monster.

Comes in, dominates. Nah, I'm not coming to the podcast monday either i just dominate stuff i'm kind of busy guys i just have champagne flying everywhere at every weight class every weight class i have to go drink champagne with these people after they win yeah dude's a beast so funny like like especially like with ryan like i see oh ryan won the national championships like well fucking duh like what else was he going to do? I had zero doubt in my mind that he was not going to get anything but first place. He was just going to win.

So I see that. I feel like I should be celebrating for him. But at the same time, I'm kind of like, well, yeah, Ryan obviously is going to win. Not a shadow of a doubt in my mind. The gold medal in London. So good. He hasn't lost a meet since he was ever. He's just always been the strongest kid I've ever known.

And then the fact that it looks like he's a man now is so crazy to me. He used to snatch like 285, 300 pounds, something like that, and look like a child. When is that kid going to hit puberty? How much weight's on the bar? That was one of the craziest things when you hang out at MASH's gym is it's like a bunch of kids running around. And you think, oh, I could go lift with these kids. You can't even touch them. Like there was some six foot tall, skinny kid one day. And I was like, I bet I could lift with that guy like he's he's like 15 no big deal he's super skinny up and he was like I was like what are we doing today he's like I

gotta do some like snatch balance work and like we're gonna build up to just like a heavy triple I was like cool I bet I could snatch balance with you yeah right not even close this tall little skinny kid that was not supposed to be moving under barbells that well like took my pr for a triple like it was nothing and i was like dude i'm gonna go kick it over here with hunter elam and she's just as strong as i am so whatever he's doing there is it's just crazy i like i like if you if you read between the lines here, you're walking around a gym sizing up kids. I can lift more than them. It's worse.

I'm talking shit to them. And then they're beating the crap out of me. And then I just go try and find a girl that is somewhat going to allow me to stand on a platform with her. It's amazing. There are females around here that are 60% my size. Perfect.

Yeah. I can lift the same weight as them almost. That day that Hunter – It's a good day. It's a good day. I snatched 105. That's 232. I hadn't snatched that much in so long.

I was terrified. But the problem was Hunter was standing in front of me, and I was talking crap to her. And I go – She was like, do you think you could snatch my opening lift? And I was like, Hunter, please. Like, I'm awesome. You should know I'm awesome.

And I was like, what's your opener? She goes, 220. And I was like, I don't know if I got 100 kilos in me today, Hunter. I think it warmed up. Yeah. I was like. Anders is like, you know what? I beat your hump yesterday. I'm a little tired.

My shoulder's a little achy. On another day. I'll come back. Hunter, do you know what it's like to be 36? Things don't move like they used to. All these pieces come out. It's so freaky when all those kids get together and just start banging away man it is wild um Travis is an amazing coach in many ways but like I feel like one of the best parts about his coaching is that like his expectations are so high

because he was so strong and still is so strong he's like 50 years old and he's still front squat like 500 pounds like he just expects people to be strong like he is like i don't know of any many very many other 50 year olds that front squat 500 pounds and don't even really train all the way consistently travis is just a fucking freaky strong person and having such high expectations of himself like just makes it easy to be like why don't you also front squat 500 pounds i love when you look at his videos because if you'll notice when he's like walking around he's in there with them training at the same time and imagine your coach um basically going rep for rep with you when you're one of the strongest humans in the country it's like yeah you can see that he's sweating and

getting a workout in at the same time and uh when ryan grimsland front squats or back squats like five six hundred pounds he's like i'm up who's who's working in it's like your coach is working in game on yeah it shows you the power of the mind though too like as far as doug talking about expectations because i remember um i've read a lot of work from greg knuckles in past. I'm sure you guys have. He's got awesome, awesome articles. The dude's awesome. And he actually talked about when he first got into lifting, he didn't know how strong he was because he was like working with record-holding powerlifters.

So like squatting, say, four plates was like unbelievably normal for him. So it's like as far as expectation goes, you don't like put yourself into these silos where, oh, that's heavy weight or that's a lot of progress. You allow yourself the fearlessness required to do it. I think that's a huge part of being strong actually is just having confidence to get under the bar

and get the job done. I feel like that is, that's so real in that when, especially when gyms are created, like the culture of gyms is created and that record board goes up and it's like, if there's a 500 in the gym, everybody knows that 500 is possible. But when the strongest person's like 405, which isn't a small squat by any means, but that's like the cap. And then everybody thinks that 410 is huge or 415 or whatever like the next thing was it takes somebody to come in and be like 700 is the new number yeah and that's why

iron sharpens iron there's other strong people in the gym it'll make everybody stronger it's one of the big reasons um i think west side was so successful it's like that not that's not just the methods and the the science and stuff which were there but just the intensity of the room the records that were in the room the chaos that was in the room when iron sharpens iron in a huge way uh in anything like if you have strong people around you you're going to be stronger um everybody tells a story about the first guy who ran that um that the mile the word and they thought it was a four minute mile was it yeah four minute mile is the one but and then and then everybody did it after once it was possible or if like the only guy you're grappling with is like henzo gracie and then you like you you realize like wow you know

i'm actually really good despite being with the freaking murderers in this room um that's it's a huge part of why people i think like, like training in gyms. I train by myself in my basement. But I can imagine the intensity and the motivation and the realization of how strong you could be if you're surrounded by beasts, like in MASH's facility. I think that goes two ways. Also, like for for all the people that that have the potential or the desire or the grit or whatever it is to actually stick around and and train when you're in a room full of murderers if you're doing jiu-jitsu or mma or whatever it is or if you're at west side like all the people that

think like i could get to squatting 850 or whatever like if your max genetic potential is 325 like you're just not going to stay training with those guys so like all the people that are just never going to make it they kind of wash out and they leave and only the people that have that that potential actually stick around because they're they actually are like those other people and so there's it's kind of two-sided where it's not just the culture that makes everyone strong it's the culture that makes the people who stay strong and it washes away the people that just are never going to make it yeah question number one for today you guys ready dog i'm kicking this one straight to you how do you balance jujitsu and strength training

that's like a gigantic question that we get to uh dig into here um sure How many days a week are you rolling? Way less than I'd like. You know, back when I was actually trying to be good, you know, it was basically every day, you know, five, six days a week, sometimes seven days a week. But these days, it's like, I'm happy to get two days a week, both from a just a life standpoint with having kids and, and just trying to be around as much as possible then also i just my body just can't handle actually rolling two days a week like yesterday i rolled for like an hour and 20 minutes which is like a long rolling session for me or just like back to back to back just you know clocks going you just get a new partner every every three to five minutes or however long the intervals are and it's hard for me to do like an hour and 20 minutes without walking away with something

hurting on me like i have like a rib thing that fucking never goes away you're guaranteed to injure yourself yeah pretty much man i'm always banged up somewhere so it's like i only really roll hard like once or twice a week and i'm if i'd roll more than that it's gonna be pretty beat up but um yeah if you're if you're training every day though um i think i actually did if i was really trying to specifically focus on just jiu-jitsu or just mma i actually feel like i did a little bit too much strength training like i was still trying to lift weights heavy like basically do like full weight lifting or powerlifting type training and then also full-time mma because i just I was I owned a gym so I was living in the gym and I loved training and I felt like I had the energy for it but I would I would very often

lift weights and then MMA practice was always later in the in the afternoons like I would do weightlifting like in graduate school I would do weightlifting practice like on a team from three to five basically for two hours and then I would eat dinner then I would go to kickboxing practice and then I would go to jiu-jitsu and then sometimes MMA would be after that and so we would train for many many hours and I the first point that I think is important to make is I feel like one of the times where I would do a a hypertrophy based upper body day and I would have you know I would I, you know, each muscle group to fatigue, like all the way to failure in a controlled setting at lifting. And then I would go straight to, to grappling, being, being fully fatigued in a controlled setting, and then trying

to go to that, that uncontrolled setting while being fully fatigued was I hurt my shoulder a couple of times in that environment. And I feel like, I feel like being fully fatigued was, um, I hurt my shoulder a couple of times in that environment. And I feel like, I feel like being fully fatigued when I showed up to grappling, um, ended up actually hurting me in the long run. Cause I feel like I got injured injuries that I wouldn't have gotten otherwise. Um, so I actually think as far as, uh, from a scheduling standpoint, doing, doing your uncontrolled,-based stuff first, and then at the end of the day, doing your more controlled stuff, lifting afterwards,

and then you could get a full night's sleep and be more fully recovered by the time you get back to your uncontrolled activity, I think is wise from an injury prevention standpoint. But to more directly answer the question, again, if you're training basically every day i think i think two or three days a week of total body training um is is enough for most people um you could of course tweak that if you're you know like dan trains super high level

guys and you know really individualizes programming to their specific needs depending on you know what their needs are are they you know are they aggressively cutting weight and trying to change weight classes either up or down? Do they have a lot of strength training experience where that's not their limiter anymore? And like, you know, if you're Yoel Romero, like getting a little bit stronger, it's not really the thing that's going to like take you over the edge. You know, you could, you could focus on other aspects. So it depends on what your priorities are and what you really think is going to be the thing that, that actually takes you to the next level. Shrug family, I want to take a quick break. If you are enjoying today's conversation,

I want to invite you to come over to rapidhealthreport.com. When you get to rapidhealthreport.com, you will see an area for you to opt in, in which you can see Dan Garner read through my lab work. Now, you know that we've been working at Rapid Health Optimization on programs for optimizing health. Now, what does that actually mean? It means in three parts, we're going to be doing a ton of deep dive into your labs.

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reading my labs the nutrition and supplementation that he has recommended that has radically shifted the way that I sleep the energy that I have during the day my total testosterone level and it, and my ability to trust and have confidence in my health going forward. I really, really hope that you're able to go over to rapidhealthreport.com, watch the video of my labs, and see what is possible. And if it is something that you are interested in, please schedule a call with me on that page. Once again, it's rapidhealthreport.com and let's get back to the show.

You know, some people are strong, but their cardio shits. They should mostly be doing cardio, not as much strength training. They're just maintaining on strength training, but they're really trying to increase their cardio. So it depends, really depends on your specific situation.

But like as a general catch-all, if you're doing jiu-jitsu, you know, five, six days a week, I think two or three sessions of, you know, of total body training, I think is likely enough. Or maybe you could do like Monday, Wednesday, Friday, up or lower, up or lower, where you're kind of getting three complete sessions over the course of two weeks I think is fine for a lot of people.

But yeah, I'll kick it over to Dan. I certainly have more to say about it, but Dan trains many high-level MMA guys, and so he has a perspective on world-class guys. By the way, congratulations on another victory with Sean O'Malley this weekend, bud. We talked about it. A victory.

You guys won another fight. He wanted a way out. I wouldn't call it a win. It ended up being a no contest. I wouldn't call it a win. Yeah. It ended up being a no contest. And I voiced my opinion about that. I saw that. I couldn't believe Dan Garner had an opinion about it.

It must have been embarrassing. That's the first time I've ever done that in my career, actually. It must have been embarrassing. I never put that energy out into the universe. But I was mad when I went to bed. And I was like, don't post anything yet. And was mad when I went to bed and I was like, don't post anything yet. And then I woke up still mad and I was like,

okay, it's time. The world needs to know. Yeah. Yeah. It didn't look like a finger, like in the socket, it looked like he kind of just like brushed his face.

And I don't know. I don't know what the deal is with it. I won't get into it, but I have this entire like prepared argument I had with myself and I was like yeah this is I'm 100% correct on this but yes all I saw was the 16-0 post

and I went to bed and I was like good job Dan I know Ryan and MASH and then you won another fight with Shane Sean O'Malley you're having a big weekend. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I'm going to add to Doug's Doug's um, points here because yeah, I mean, a lot of people do know me as the lab nutrition guy.

I do a ton of training stuff as well. Um, but Doug already knocked off a lot of huge things. So I think I'm just going to add more conceptual things that are important to understand just as a framework of training. The first one is you're in the gym to become better at grappling. You're not in the gym to become a better weightlifter. That's a totally different mindset. Like sometimes they treat them as two pursuits when it should be one pursuit. You're using weightlifting as a tool to become a better grappler. You're not using weightlifting

to get jacked strong post-warms on Instagram. Like you are utilizing that as a tool purely to get better at grappling. So when you have one of your tools, creating residual fatigue that bringing you into the thing that you're supposed to be getting better at, it stops making sense very quickly, because you're trying to get better at grappling. And if you're carrying in a bunch of residual fatigue from your training, because you're not regulating volume, intensity and frequency good enough to use it as a supportive tool rather than a dominating tool, then you're kind of missing the point of training. Because now you're not really, you end up in this gray zone where you're not really going to get better at either.

You're going to have too much fatigue to build functional muscle and get functional strength. And then you're also going to have a lot of fatigue that's going to stop the rate of your skill acquisition in the world of grappling as well. So the first thing I would say is you're in the gym to become a better grappler. You're not in the gym to become a weightlifter. The next thing that I would say, again, conceptually speaking, I think these things are easy to remember but really important, is that when you're training, not just for grappling, but really for any sport,

you are in the gym to build strength, not demonstrate it. So having reps in reserve, not going for one RMs to test your one RM, you're not getting anything from that. You're just not. There's ways in which you can work a one RM into your periodization. Sure. But that should be a one RM, you know, you're going to get like that. It's not, you're not trying it because the cost benefit analysis loses every single time. You're not going to gain muscle and strength from a 1RM. That's just simply not going to happen, but you are going to put a ton of stress on your joints. You're going to create a ton of fatigue locally and systemically in physiology. And it's kind of for nothing. So it's important to remember you are in the gym to build strength and not demonstrate it. Those are two different things entirely. And it's

very important for athletes to understand that. And the last thing I would add, as far as training for grappling goes, because Doug already added a bunch. So I just wanted to add in some ideas on top. But I think some nutrition advice could be important here too, just because grapplers, um, you can talk, you don't have to talk to 10 grapplers to find one who has a joint that hurts. Okay. You can, you talk to one and he'll tell you what currently hurts and what doesn't. Um, so from a nutritional perspective, there's basically three ways you can tackle joint health and pain management. Um, you can tackle joint health and pain

management. You want nutraceuticals for pain management, you want nutraceuticals for joint lubrication, and you want nutraceuticals for collagen synthesis. So pain management, simply lowering pain, so you have better mobility and skill acquisition in your grappling. Collagen synthesis to actually literally rebuild joint cartilage so that you have better longevity in your pursuit. And then lastly, joint lubrication, because that's going to help improve mobility as well and overall movement mechanics,

and it's something you need to be fluid in any sport. Curcumin is excellent for pain management. Vitamin C is excellent for collagen synthesis. And fish oil is excellent for pain management. Vitamin C is excellent for collagen synthesis. And fish oil is excellent for joint lubrication. So just knocking those three out is going to allow you to regulate pain, rebuild joint cartilage, and lubricate your joints. So it's just going to allow you to train at the volumes, intensities, and frequencies that are going to be required to stimulate new progress so that you can use the gym to become

a better grappler and get better at both pursuits at the same time and feel like you're working with your body rather than against your body in this pursuit. I think a lot of people just need to focus or just have to create a framework of like just building a base of fitness. Like training is so easy if the goal is to just accumulate really good reps and volume and do it in a smart way. You really don't need that much

when it comes to even just simple squatting. Like you can just do some goblet squats really, really well and just accumulate really good reps before you have to go and throw 300 something pounds on a bar and like have to hit your set of eight and hold these things to you. Like, uh, I feel like many people, when they get

into playing a sport, they want it that they want to be good at. They feel like they have to be good at all of the other sports that go along with it. Like I need to be great at weightlifting or I'm going to go start CrossFit because I want to be great at, uh, at jujitsu. And it's like, why don't you just try and be really good at one of those and then use everything else to support that specific goal and build those frameworks of just, I don't have a sport that I play right now. So I'm in a way like aligned in that. I just want to accumulate a lot of good volume at very, I shouldn't say very low intensities,

but at moderate intensities where I'm just accumulating good movement, telling my muscles that they're needed and, and over time being consistent with it so that you feel relatively good. And at any point in time, you can get up and go do whatever activity you want to go do. If you want to go compete and play jujitsu at a really high level, like you, that should be the only thing you're worried about. You don't need to worry about being a badass in the gym. Just go and accumulate reps. And I think one thing, if there is a, a, a like overarching lesson of lifting weights for a very like multiple decades is the number of frameworks that you're

going to lift weights and the number of like mindsets you will have over that period of time you have to get really good at transitioning in between those like from from a competitive season to just a a health and longevity way to do it if it's for running how do you change that up i think dan you've done like a really cool job of that like going from how do you lift weights when you want to go run a marathon to transitioning right into how do you want to lift weights to benching 405. And before that, how do you do it to get the single digit body fat, like all of those are mindsets that people have to develop. And over the course of a lifetime, the number of ways that you are going to lift and the number of mindsets you have to develop to

be able to go into the gym and actually get where you're going is a real skill in itself. Uh, I think that that's one piece of this, uh, whole puzzle that people that do not have that experience or haven't hit the walls, uh, really fall into. Uh, it's like when I was training really, really hard trying to compete at CrossFit, you go, well, how do I do this now that I'm like a dad and a business owner and have all these things? You go, well, it can't be the same for sure. And the mindset side of it has to be different. I can't hold myself to my 25-year-old strength numbers as considering that to be the only thing that I do every single day. So the way that the trends are going, probably for the last like five years,

where all of these high intensity training people that were like super focused have really moved, a lot of them moved into jujitsu and love that for the complexities and the athleticism and all that. But trying to keep your same strength training routine and then adding jujitsu on top of it,

it's not going to work out well. Yeah. I feel like over the years, I, if you want to talk about like, my current situation where I'm, again, I'm not, I'm not a professional athlete. I have kids. I do it for fun. I really enjoy it. I want to be in good general shape, but it's not like the focus of my life at the moment. So I only train jujitsu a couple of times a week. Basically the way that I structure it is that jujitsu is always the priority.

And I don't, I don't have a, a, like a specific set schedule for jujitsu. Like I, I very often train Saturdays in the middle of the day. This week I didn't, it didn't do it.

So I trained on a Sunday. Like I, I like to do one evening class, but often that doesn't happen for whatever reason. So I'll try and do a noon class. Like it's, I don't have this like super structured um schedule for jujitsu and so jujitsu is always the priority if it's available then that's what i'm going to do i'm going to go to jujitsu whenever i can um but then the rest of the time i basically have like a um an upper lower

split that i follow that if jujitsu is not an option, then I just do the next workout. So my, my workouts aren't like Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, it's just workout one, two,

three, four. And so, and I just do them in order on whatever, whatever day is next. And so I might do, I might do, you know,

lower body day heavy on, on Monday and then do grappling on Tuesday and then do upper body on Wednesday. And then, day heavy on Monday and then do grappling on Tuesday and then do upper body on Wednesday and then and then either try to go back to jiu-jitsu if I can the next day or sneak in another lower body day or if I just feel like I'm just still wrecked for whatever reason from the first lower body day then I'll put in like a filler day where I might just like do uh do uh you know a little bit of core work and some assistance work and do assault bike sprints or go or go for a run or a mountain bike ride i'll do like a just like a do something day

what's like low intensity movement day and then i'm back on track with with lower upper and and jiu-jitsu and so i i basically do something every day but i don't have this like firm schedule but i have like a framework in my mind of what comes next oh dan garner you ready how do you improve mitochondrial function oh yeah right yeah i tried to prepare you this is a pretty big one teach us about everything physiology. Yeah. Mitochondria. We'll do a full show on this if needed. A hundred percent. Yeah. It should be more organized.

But mitochondrial function, mitochondrial health, the assessment of mitochondrial health, these are all things that are extraordinarily complicated and not totally figured out yet. When somebody says that they're diagnosing mitochondrial dysfunction, they're almost certainly full of shit. It is incredibly, incredibly difficult to identify. Why? Because mitochondria in every single cell of the body. So that means every single symptom could be a symptom of mitochondrial dysfunction. So if someone comes in with fatigue, mitochondrial dysfunction.

Someone comes in with poor gut health, mitochondrial dysfunction. You can barely just, because the mitochondria within the chief cells of the stomach are responsible for the generation and secretion of hydrochloric acid. So like you can make this argument within gut health that it's mitochondrial dysfunction.

Yet almost everybody knows mitochondria are the quote powerhouse of the cell. That's what's responsible for ATP synthesis. So you can make an argument that if fatigue is a part of what you're feeling right now, that it's mitochondrial dysfunction. Mitochondria, a lot of people don't know that pregnenolone is actually made within the mitochondria of epithelial tissue within reproductive organs. So you're getting pregnenolone which can eventually downstream via if the enzymes are working in your favor um the different types of estrogens testosterone progesterone cortisol but that that key hormone i mean that that process

begins in the mitochondria so like identifying mitochondrial dysfunction is not something that's available even in Western allopathic medicine, let alone a coach trying to say this is that and this is this and being super confident about it. It's just simply not there. With that said, it does not mean that certain things are not actionable. There's a whole lot of research in the world of mitochondrial function and even fascinating things as compartmentalization. So there's a lot of ways I can go with this. I should probably mention maybe two things. The first would be inflammation. So the process of mitochondria doing what it does in order to create ATP, for example, is going to create some degree of reactive oxygen species. So you are going to have

inflammatory outputs from the mitochondria in response to normal biological processes of creating ATP. And this is in many ways, and please go out here and check out the literature on this. This is one of the ways in which inflammation can inhibit conditioning in people. It actually acts as a protective mechanism. So the body will hold back the rate of ATP synthesis in order to protect itself from the ongoing influx of reactive oxygen species that it cannot neutralize. So it actually holds back this ATP synthesis. So inflammation management, yes, will improve the health of your mitochondria. But in the rapid philosophy here, the health is what's also going to naturally drive performance. Because when inflammation is controlled, you can maximize ATP synthesis. So that is a huge component of keeping mitochondria healthy is through inflammation

management, because it will basically produce certain things to a point that it can handle, if that makes sense. And then another component of mitochondrial health is micronutrient status. Micronutrient status is very, very key for mitochondrial health. You're going to require a large selection. For example, just getting glucose to the process of creating the Krebs cycle actions taking place. You're going to require B1, B2, B3, B5, and lipoate. So four different B vitamins as well as lipoate to get, and this goes for either protein, carbohydrates, or fat. It's going to convert that into something known as acetyl-CoA, so it can enter the Krebs cycle. So we've got multiple micronutrients responsible just for

getting in the Krebs cycle and actually, you know, to take a step backwards. If it was carbohydrates, we would have already required magnesium as well to break down glucose into glucose 6-phosphate. And then we would have required B1, 2, 3, 4, and lipoate, or no, B1, 2, 3, 5, and lipoate to get it into the Krebs cycle. And then even in the Krebs cycle, there are many more cofactors and coenzymes. Coenzymes is something a lot of people, it's like my own little OCD thing, but a cofactor is a mineral, a coenzyme is a is something a lot of people, it's like my own little OCD thing, but a cofactor is a mineral, a coenzyme is a vitamin. A lot of people will just say cofactor is kind of for everything, but that is incorrect. One's a mineral, one's a vitamin. And then once you're out of the Krebs cycle, you're still going to need copper, CoQ10, and oxygen in order for more ATP to

be created within the electron transport chain. Kre The cycle is going to get you some degree of ATP, but the electron transport chain is going to get you way more. All of this stuff is happening in the mitochondria, and all of those micronutrients I'm talking about are rate-limiting steps. So they will hold back your ability to maximally create energy. And by the way, those micronutrients are susceptible to the triage theory that we discussed in the micronutrient episode as well. We use vitamin K as the example. Vitamin K will be utilized for blood coagulation

first before it is utilized for long-term health and longevity for cleaning plaque off of arteries. That's based upon an immediate acute triage of what's important for survival of the organism. And your body, if it only has a certain amount of vitamin, you can bet that that's not going to go towards jujitsu. You can bet that that's going to go towards the brain or the heart or something of much more acute relevance. So it's not just the calories and macronutrients that you consume. It is also the micronutrients that are a big part of that as well. That's why I always like to say calories will determine your body weight. Macronutrients will determine what you look like at that weight. And micronutrients

will determine how you feel at that weight, because you're going to feel way more energetic, way more conditioned, way stronger. All of these processes you're going to be kicking off without the hiccups that happen within any triage in physiology. So micronutrient status being key, inflammation status being key, and compartmentalization is something that's fascinating as well. And we'll definitely have to do a podcast on this because I've got like 10 more things on mitochondria I want to talk about, but they'd go for a million years. Compartmentalization is actually self-programmed cell death. So if there is a certain amount of inflammation within the mitochondria, your body, it's super fascinating, your body will actually compartmentalize a portion or fraction of the mitochondria within this cell and create programmed death. So just imagine there is a pie chart of mitochondria

in your cell, and then your body says, okay, we're too inflamed right now. We're actually going to compartmentalize this half of the pie and do self-programmed cell death here. So then you end up with a mitochondrial status within a cell that is absolutely considered suboptimal no matter what pursuit you're after, whether it's work performance or health. And this is due to inflammation management as well, and also due to oxygen availability. So people with iron problems, people with oxygen delivery and transport problems, perhaps due to certain blood issues, whatever it's going to be, there's a lot of roads to get to that problem, but can absolutely take place. So whether you are after health, whether you're after performance, and if

you are concerned in the arena of micronutrients, that's like, sorry, if you're concerned in the arena of mitochondria, that's like one of the most important reasons among the reason list of 1000, that you need to be eating healthy and not just be eating numbers. That's a huge part of this game. Yeah. Thank God Dan Garner's here because, uh, I would have punted on that question so hard. You were just about to say all that. I could tell. Breakdown of real biochemistry that goes on inside your, your cell.

That was, um, I would have stopped at powerhouse of the cell. So, you're the man. That's what everybody says. It's the powerhouse of the cell. I remember in sixth grade, my biology teacher said powerhouse of the cell. So, I'll say that. Yeah. And then chemistry.

Yeah, I'm going to hide from that one for a little while. And there's so much more. Yeah, we're going to do a post one for a little while. And there's so much more. If people are interested, let us know. Mitochondria will absolutely be its own show. And the proper analysis, because it's, like I said, a lot of people absolutely make leaps where they shouldn't make leaps. But there are certain little Dan Garner algorithms you can use to create a checklist and then say,

okay, this is probably where it is from an evidence perspective. We can go over all that in the future. I love that. Let's bring this chemistry level down a little bit. Let's talk about sauna and cold plunges. When is the best time in the day for sauna and cold plunge benefits, drawbacks, anything along the way. I'll just kick it off by saying everybody, first off, you should go listen to Galpin on Huberman Lab. They just spent three and a half hours. And I want to say there was a good

like 45 minute chunk in there about saunas, cold pl plunge when the best time to use it what is the specific goals that is going to have the best response for cold plunge and sauna and really those two guys are really at the top of the game specifically Galpin on doing all the research and all the stuff working with XPT

got like real life data science and everything behind that so please go listen to the Huberman lab with Dr. Andy Galpin on there. Not only is he part of this fun team at Rapid here, but he also does a great job on that show. And then if you don't even want to listen to Huberman, Huberman was on Lex Friedman's podcast and YouTube found me in the algorithm and said, you probably like this.

And they were right. Um, and which Dr. Huberman, uh, goes in and lays out in, in like even simpler terms, what Galpin was talking about. Um,

so between one of those two shows, you will get like the real deep dive from Huberman or Galpin. Um, and I highly recommend going and listening to the Huberman Galpin podcast specifically, if you got three and a half hours of drive time ahead of you. Mr. XPT. Oh, go ahead.

I was going to say, I think we could do this from a low science perspective and kind of move toward the science. Think about this question like, what's the best time to work out? From a super low science perspective, the best time to work out is whenever you can get the fucking workout done. Like getting it done at all is the best time to work out is whenever you can get the fucking workout done. Like getting it done at all is the best time. And then once you're very consistent and, and you have many options and like, you really can do it in the optimal times, then you can start worried about like the exact specific time to do it. But step one is just make sure that you,

you can do it at all. Uh, for both sauna and cold plunge, there's, there's many benefits that go along with each one of those. And I think some of those benefits, it doesn't really matter when you do it. Like if I think about sauna, like when I sauna, I almost always sauna before I go to bed. And it's the end of the day. It's like it's a wind down activity for me. I just want to, at the end of the day, relax, no technology. I'm by myself. There's no kids screaming. I can meditate or kind of just think through my day or just sit there and journal. And that works really well for me. And it checks all the boxes. It checks the mental health box. It checks the solitude box. It checks the just quieting my mind box. And I really could do that any time of the day, but it just seems to be easiest for me to do it at the end of the day. So for like,

for those types of benefits, I don't think it really matters when you do it. You know, does it really matter when you meditate? Maybe yes or no, but just did you meditate at all? If you feel like you're a person who needs to meditate, that is really the number one question. And then same thing for, for ice bath. Like if you're just trying to get some like mental health benefits and quiet your mind and or kind of work on your staying calm under stress and mental toughness of just being in the water and not panicking and just kind of slowly breathing and just getting through it, then it doesn't really matter when you do it. It just matters that you do it. So let's start at that level. And then as far as the more specifics on exactly what time of day or,

you know, before, after workouts and all that stuff, I'll kick that one over to Dan. Yeah. I actually feel like so many of these things are, it's like, how many of the big boxes are you checking first? Like if you, if you think that sauna is going to get you to your goals, you probably need to have like a different conversation unless your goal is just to be really hot and sweat or maybe to eliminate some like toxicity issues that Dan has found. Like there's some real benefit to that. But if it's like I want to get stronger and leaner and look shredded,

well, maybe are you working out properly? Are you eating properly? Because the sauna really is like just an add on. And I think people get really lost in little things sometimes not that sauna is like a, a little thing like it has real benefits. But going in like getting really cold and jumping in an ice bath most likely isn't going to get you to your big goals faster. It may be something that helps you recover. If it's pure hypertrophy, there's a chance it's actually not a good thing for you. But for the most part, if you can move the big rocks and then you have additional time and you like being hot and going in the sauna, awesome.

If you like really challenging yourself and going going in the sauna, awesome. If you like really challenging yourself and going in cold baths, awesome. Make sure you're moving the big rocks first, eating really well, getting the proper nutrition, making sure your training is intelligent, keeping the focus on the big things, the big rocks. And then just in general, like most people don't have a sauna or many people don't have access to a sauna unless you're going to a gym specific to that. So like getting hung up on that. Yes, there is some benefit to it, but for the most part, let's, let's move big rocks. Let's make sure we're eating well. Let's make sure we're training well, make sure our mindset's right, the focus is there, and I think you'll have just as much real-world results until you're a professional athlete by just focusing on the big things first. Yeah, real quick, so the thing that actually

made me think of that response was I remember reading an article that Alan Cosgrove wrote many, many years ago where someone had written to him saying, when's the best time to train? And he didn't get back to that person right away and eventually got back to that person after a couple of weeks or however long. And they ended up in conversation. He said, how's your training been? The guy's like, I haven't been training. He's like, what do you mean? And he goes, well, I sent you that email asking when the best time to train was. And you didn't get back to me. And I was waiting for your response.

And he was like, well, just some training. Any training is or just doing something is better than doing something at the specifically right time. Like, don't let not having the perfect information hold you back from doing anything at all. Like, still just go do something, even if it's not perfect, and then you can tweak it along the way. But don't let not having the perfect information hold you back from even getting started. That's like, that's way worse. The difference between zero and one is enormous.

Yeah. A hundred percent. So like in the world of ice baths and like cellular mechanisms, um, I'll, I'll just defer that to XPT. Uh, I'm a part of XPT and they, they cover a lot of this stuff. So I think checking out XPT would be solid. Checking out Huberbin, solid. Checking out Galpin, solid. Like if you go to those three resources, you'll have everything you need. Um, I'm going to more talk about something I do personally, because I think because I think that I can provide more value there You can look up physiology, but learning experience is how you really?

change lives including your own One thing a lot of people use ice baths for is recovery That's like the main thing people use ice baths for and cryotherapy for and these cold things it's used for recovery um what i like to do and and this is by the way what i'm about to say doesn't have science behind it it's just how i feel about it so i'll always tell people when it's i speak from the evidence but i'll tell people when something's my opinion this is my opinion um there is a trend of getting in the ice bath every day. Okay. And if you get in the ice bath for two minutes, okay. At a cold temperature, the first time you do that, it'll rock your world. You are cold. It's hard to calm down. It's hard to nasal breathe. It's hard to quiet the alarm

systems of your mind. And then when you get out, you get like a euphoric type of feeling. It's hard to quiet the alarm systems of your mind. And then when you get out, you get like a euphoric type of feeling. It's that it'll rock your world in a way that it can become somewhat addictive. Like you're like, and I don't mean in a bad way. You're just like, Oh my God, I get it. I know what that's about. That was awesome. But then you do it the next day. And then you do it the next day. You do the next day, you do it the next way and then you do it the next day. You do it the next day, you do it the next day. And people are using the ice bath for the purpose of recovery. But in training, we create a stimulus to force an adaptation, right? You do heavy bench press to gain muscle and strength in the muscles that are responsible for getting strong in the bench press.

Directed stress equals directed adaptation, period. When you get in the ice bath, that is a directed stress with a directed adaptation. Your body is adapting to the stress of being submerged in the cold. So like I say, I don't have any science to back this up, but I have to assume due to the efficiency of biology, that the first time you get in there for two minutes is incredibly different cellularly than the 20th time you got in there for two minutes. There's no way, unless I'm proven otherwise, I just don't believe that if we do the ice bath every day at the same temperature for the same time, that stimulus is gone, just like it would be if you did the same exercise with the

exact same weight over the course of a year, rather than incorporated proper periodization. So in the same way we have a stimulus and adaptation in the gym, I think that there's absolutely, undeniably a stimulus and adaptation to cold submersion. So what I do in my one-on-one high performance athletes that I work with is I create what I call a parasympathetic menu. So for people who are unfamiliar, sympathetic is your fight or flight branch of the nervous system. Parasympathetic is rest and digest. So you want maximum sympathetic activity in the gym. You want to be on everything to drive as crazy of a stimulus as possible. But then the moment you get out of the gym, you want to turn on parasympathetic activity as quick as you can, because that's going to activate the rest and digest. That's

what's going to allow response to maximally recover. In my opinion, again, an opinion, I would want to have a parasympathetic menu for my athletes to choose from based upon what's going to impact parasympathetic activity and performance adaptation without risking blunting the overall stimulus. So on this menu would be meditation. On this menu would be mobility work. On this menu would be cold submersion.

On this menu would be breath work, deep breathing. So if I've got meditation, a breath routine, a mobility routine, and cold submersion on my parasympathetic menu, a few things can happen. So if I've got a hip mobility problem, instead of feeling like I have to get in the cold for no reason, for my parasympathetic activity, I could do a hip mobility routine. Or if I'm going through a particularly hard time with my wife or my business, instead of thinking I need to do my hip mobility routine. Or if I'm going through a particularly hard time with my wife or my business, instead of thinking I need to do my hip mobility routine, I can choose meditation today and actually just calm my mind down. If I don't feel like meditating and I'm actually,

my mobility is pretty good, but I want to do breath work today, well, then I'm always going to perform better in what I want to do. So I'll do breath work that day. And then hell, if I want to incorporate cold submersion that day, then I can do that too. But I feel like if we're after recovery, then we're really just after parasympathetic response. And if we're after parasympathetic response, we have to consider the recovery component of stimulus and adaptation. So switching up your recovery routine, in my opinion, will drive a greater recovery response because we won't be adapting to our recovery routines, just like we would any other actual serious. So that's what I have to say on that. I'm a recovery menu guy rather than a let's just the same way every single day kind of guy

because I just don't think that makes sense based on the history of biology. Yeah, I also want to like kind of warn people. You can spend a lot of money on this stuff. And this is coming from a guy that if you looked on the other side of this computer, you would see a three-person sauna. And the last time three uses got, that thing was turned on three times, was not in a calendar year. Like when you have kids and you have like a real life and you go and drop a bunch of money on a sauna, there's a good chance that thing is going to turn into a place where you store things

on top of it versus a place that you go in and sweat. And when I see some of these cold plunges and people are spending like thousands and thousands of dollars on cold tubs, thinking that like at the end of the day, they need to go jump in the cold tub to like refresh themselves or whatever it is. I'm going to let you know that might sound really cool for like a month where you're really motivated to do this ice punch thing and you just spent all the money. Maybe borrow someone's for a little while or like go the super cheap route and get a bunch of ice

and like really feel like how much you're going to use these things. I love sauna. I would sit in saunas all the time. Anytime I'm around an ice bath, I think it's a fun little like a trick that people get to play. I jumped in a fricking lake in Northern Minnesota this winter and it was awesome. It was actually colder in the water than it was on land by like 60 degrees,

which is absolutely insane to me. But also, did I get that wrong? The water was 60 degrees colder than the land air temperature it was minus 30 outside and 30 degrees in the water it's colder outside than it was in the water yeah by 60 degrees crazy um get all the water in here you get in the water you're like oh it's nice it was refreshing right you're like man it's toasty out here is anybody having sunscreen it's negative 60 out um but the uh or negative 30 out the uh but i think that that's i think a lot of people think like if they're gonna go make a big investment into something that's gonna mean something they're gonna use it all the time

and uh i think it might be better to go join like a lifetime fitness and borrow theirs and see how much you actually use it how much time you actually have uh just kind of like a word from somebody that has spent money on expensive things and then now they collect dust in the garage as a part of the home gym if you have a really nice cold tub awesome good luck trying to use that every night when you're just trying to freaking relax and and get the kids down to sleep it's a tough battle just a heads up um next question kidney markers on blood work my doctor has a minor meltdown over high creatine level sodium potassium low eg all fr weight training six days a week is it unreasonable to see this in bodybuilding types of folks who train hard. Kidney markers. Another giant one, huh? Just your kidneys.

I know, geez. Some of these questions, I'm like, holy crap, man. Just because I know how much there is. So I try to distill it to the tip of the iceberg. So kidney markers. You've got, you know, on a basic panel, you're going to have things such as creatinine, you're going to have EGFR, you're going to have uric acid, you're going to have a handful of things that all point towards kidney health, but then you have to consider other factors too, like creatinine and uric acid can simply be brought up from increased meat in the diet, increased protein in the diet. Both of those can also be brought up simply due to more muscle mass on a body. So absolutely, these things can be brought up.

They can also be brought up in response to hard training. So they can be brought up in response to hard training. So they can be brought up in response to hard training. You can have sometimes your kidney values, if you're like a drug using athlete, and then you come off drugs, and you're actually looking at your kidney values, like, oh, these look horrible. But one of the reasons they look horrible is not necessarily because they're in poor health. But because you have an enormous amount of muscle wasting happening right now, because you were previously on drugs, and now you're not. So you're metabolizing not just the protein from your diet, but you're metabolizing the skeletal muscle protein that you have as well, which is driving your kidney values way up high and can freak you out. But if you understand muscle wasting and

protein metabolism, that those things are absolutely going to be high. But since these are very sensitive to change and just think about, and you have to, you have to think about these things in bigger lenses, too. So like I said, creatinine, for example, creatinine, to be honest, creatinine is a pretty shitty kidney marker. It's not a very good one, because of its sensitivity to muscle mass and protein intake. So let's say protein intake and muscle mass. So let's say we have an elderly vegan. Okay. So elderly, she has low amount of muscle mass. Vegan, she has a low amount of protein in the diet. So these will actually both drive down creatinine. But let's say she has kidney problems. Well, it'll drive up creatinine just to a normal range. So her low protein intake and low amount of muscle mass would actually have low creatinine

values. But then if she had kidney problems, it would bump it back up to normal. So then what actually appears to be a normal creatinine is actually kidney dysfunction. And you would need to look much further into that. Something like a Cystatin C will give you way better indications because creatinine's variability, uric acid's very, like uric acid's also a water-soluble antioxidant. So based on antioxidant current status of the body, uric acid move around. There's variability to creatinine, there's variability to uric acid, and EGFR is a formula and your body weight is considered in that formula. So you could have

horrible kidneys and be 250 pounds and be like, well, wow, I've got really bad kidneys. I'm a bodybuilder. I need to lower my body weight and improve my kidney health. But body weight is actually a factor in EGFR. So if you went from 250 now down to 220, your EGFR will look way better, not because your kidneys are any healthier, but because you have less body weight. That's why. So that's actually susceptible to changes in body weight as well. So since GFR, creatinine, uric acid, and these other kidney markers, are they insightful towards kidney health? 100%, not denying that at all. But they're very susceptible to meat intake, muscle mass content, training volume, and dehydration. It's all, they will flag all of these. Whereas Cystatin C, that is measuring actual

damage of kidneys. That's the most simplistic way to think about it. So if you, if you are currently freaking out about your kidneys, first of all, freaking out doesn't do anything. Take action on it. Freaking out's a lot like sitting in a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but you don't get anywhere. So what I would recommend doing is just ordering something known as a Cystatin C. It's not susceptible to variation to these other things. I will give you a direct answer on if your kidneys are damaged or not. That's the way in which I would approach this. And that's the answer I can give in a broad breast stroke scenario like this. There you go. Dan Garner, where can the people find you?

You can find me at Dan Garner Nutrition on Instagram, and you can check out my courses over at coachgarner.com. And if you want to get your blood work done, go to inside tracker.com slash Garner. There it is. Doug Larson on Instagram. Douglas E. Larson. Make sure you go and hang out with the national champion three time back to back to back Travis mash over at mash elite performance.com. Uh, I'm Anders Varner at Anders Varner. We are Barbara shrugged at Barbara underscore shrug. And if you would like to check out what all of this information looks like in real life,

I haven't Dan Garner. See what it looks like when he reads my labs had over to rabbit health report.com. And if you have some issues that fall under, uh, some of these questions that we were getting after, uh, make sure you schedule a call with me and we'll talk about them. See what we can do about getting labs run on you and getting some personalized nutrition supplementation coaching

along the way. RapidHealthReport.com. Friends, we'll see you guys next week.