Barbell Shrugged - Long Legs vs. Short Legs: How Limb Length Effects Training Programs w/ Anders Varner, Doug Larson, and Coach Travis Mash Barbell Shrugged #611

Episode Date: October 13, 2021

In this Episode of Barbell Shrugged:   What is the perfect body type for lifting weights What can you do with long legs to have better lifting technique Why short arms and legs help olympic lifts What lifts are benefited by long levers Best body type for building muscle   Connect with our guests:   Anders Varner on Instagram   Doug Larson on Instagram   Coach Travis Mash on Instagram   ————————————————   Diesel Dad Mentorship Application: https://bit.ly/DDMentorshipApp   Diesel Dad Training Programs: http://barbellshrugged.com/dieseldad   Training Programs to Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/34zcGVw   Nutrition Programs to Lose Fat and Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/3eiW8FF   Nutrition and Training Bundles to Save 67%: https://bit.ly/2yaxQxa   Please Support Our Sponsors   Organifi - Save 20% using code: “Shrugged” at organifi.com/shrugged   BiOptimizers Probitotics - Save 10% at bioptimizers.com/shrugged   Garage Gym Equipment and Accessories: https://prxperformance.com/discount/BBS5OFF Save 5% using the coupon code “BBS5OFF”

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Today we are talking about body types and how it affects your training from a movement standpoint as well as a programming standpoint and how you can shore up all the weaknesses because sometimes super long people need some special stuff, and us little short people with nice appendages, we get to do things all the right way, squat all the time. But before we get into that, a gigantic Travis Mash. There is a legit assassin on this show, like a man that has trained for years to take people's lives,

even though he has not actually done this in real life. Our boy got a brown belt. Yeah. Congratulations, Doug. How bad is that? What a monster. I did.

Thank you. Yeah. I was totally stoked about it. Yeah. If we're all in a bar, they would, they would choose Doug to fight and that would be the worst mistake they've ever made.

Yeah. He looks so nice. I actually disagree. The loud guy is typically the one you want. Just because I know what happens to the really loud guy, it's the quiet guy that you really want to stay away from. I know that, but most drunk people don't know that. Yeah, I'm going to start it.

You're going to come in second because you're going to be really excited, but Doug's going to have to clean house. Oh, yeah. Doug's going to be sitting there going, please don't make me get involved in this. That's a good point. Anders is going to start the fight. I'm going to swing, and then Doug's going to

hurt people. There's a big part of fighting on the street where you're like you're trying to insert yourself in the hierarchy somewhere where like you're trying to prove to other people that you belong you're better than them for whatever reason but if you've done martial arts and wrestled

and done jiu jitsu you've fought MMA your entire life then you generally have a good idea of kind of where you stand just because you've been doing that your whole life, just cause I've been doing that my whole life doesn't mean I don't get fucking beat up all the time. There's tons of people that,

that have done it their whole lives that I train with and they're, and they're big and strong and athletic and they do CrossFit and weightlifting and, and have done martial arts forever. Like one of my best friends here in town, he, you know, he has a fucking black belt in Krav Maga and a black belt in Judo and a

purple belt in Jiu Jitsu and has done CrossFit for like 10 or 15 years like there's just there's tons of bad motherfuckers walking around so at one level you i realize that like i have skills that other people don't have but then i also realize that there are other people out there that are that are bad motherfuckers that i could make the same mistake that someone could make with me picking a bar fight with me and they don't really know what they're getting themselves into and I could do the exact same thing against some dude that that just knows way more than I do and or and or sport fighting in general I think actually sets you up for for some bad habits in the real world you know what I mean like if I if I try to triangle choke you on the street,

well, you can probably easily gouge my eyes out while I'm triangle choking you. Maybe I get the choke, but maybe I lose an eye. You know what I mean? Ah, fuck, I didn't think about that. He's dead, but you can't see now. That's tough. Yeah. I'd rather not be able to see. I actually, being such good friends with you, Doug,

I want to know what becoming a brown belt actually means to you. Because I feel like, and I was telling you this earlier, it's inspiring to me to see you get a brown belt, knowing how hard you work for these things. However, I don't really have like a sport that I play right now that I'm like trying to get better at. So I've kind of lost that like athletic side. Like I try and be athletic by just like going and playing as much as I can, but I'm not like trying to get better at some sort like CrossFit was the last Olympic weightlifting was the last thing that I was like really dedicated to getting better at. And that was like 2015 was the last year I competed.

And that's six years ago now, which is a long time. Yeah, like the pursuing new skills is the thing that motivates me. Like when I was like really focused on learning fitness, you know, back before we were doing this and own gyms and all that, like when I was first learning. Because I was learning so quickly, I was motivated to keep going. And then with jujitsu, I feel like jujitsu is a deep, deep rabbit hole. I've been doing jujitsu since 2004, and I wrestled before that, and I did martial arts since I was like 12, all kinds of different martial arts. And still, every single day, I learn something new in the world of jujitsu. And that's really easy now because you've got Instagram, you know, all kinds of different martial arts. And still every single day I learned something new in the world of jujitsu.

And that, that makes, that's really easy now because you got Instagram and get YouTube and, and on and on. There's a, there's a lot of information to learn. But I've learned more about jujitsu probably in the last two years than I, than I learned for like the last like five years before that. Like I, I made, I made it a very dedicated effort to, to do seven days a week, no matter what no days off. And that doesn't necessarily mean that I roll hard seven days a week, but it means

that I studied jujitsu and I do something to make whatever domino fall on that day. That way I can, I just get momentum and I just, I incrementally get better every single day. So I have a rule for myself where I, I have to take at least one jujitsu related note in a Google doc every day. So I see something on Instagram or I just think of something or someone shows me something. I write one note every day, no matter what. And having that consistency,

even if it's just like watching 10 minutes of videos with, you know, like before I go to sleep and I take one note on my iPad and then, and then it's lights out. That's been, that's been really, really good for my, my jujitsu game. And then I take those notes to practice and every day before practice for 10 minutes, you know, I practice all the new stuff I've been thinking about. And then I just go to practice like normal, but like just that little bit, taking those notes and then doing like 10 minutes of trying something new, but doing it every single time

with no days off uh has been huge huge for my my skill acquisition and just improving in general but also just huge for my motivation it's like all of a sudden it's become more fun than it used to and i used to love it of course i still love it now but like it's been even more fun because i'm making progress so fast yeah i feel like there's a and it's almost almost like one of the rabbit holes that I'm terrified of when it comes to jiu-jitsu, like learning that because – not because I don't want to do it. It's like once you get hooked on the last eight years of it has like really accelerated people talking about mma specifically jujitsu i think is like one of the hottest topics in there um i and rogan's like obviously somebody that talks about this all the time and he talks about

it really well and some of the like stand-ups that he has on where like there's always this like continuing skill set or like he'll have people on the show that are like somebody that's been doing jujitsu or wrestling or whatever it is as long as you've been doing it or as long as he's been doing it and when you guys are still finding like new ways to do it it's like i i feel feel like that is the rabbit hole that you want to be in for the lifelong pursuit of the idea of mastery or getting to become a black belt. That sport is, if there's people that are still learning it, and it's been around since the Gracies, like many many decades worth of doing this one specific skill called jujitsu or like uh practice you would think we like as a whole everybody would have figured it out but people are still coming up with new things and new chess moves and it's crazy to me that

because it's been popularized over the last call it eight to 10 years that like the growth of it i feel like is like still in its infancy uh in a way where if you like kind of talk like when you look at fitness it's like we we figured out energy systems we figured out how to get strong there's still a lot of things that are out there but the the progress of the sport of fitness or whatever it is has just moves at a slower pace than jiu-jitsu yeah yeah in the last six years or so i feel like jiu-jitsu has changed immensely like maybe two years ago like i i originally was doing jiu-jitsu to fight mma i was doing no gi jiu-jitsu for mma and that's a certain style like there's things that people do in in mma that that they don't do in jiu-jitsu and there's things you do in jiu-jitsu you don't

do in mma there's a lot of crossover but they're but they're they're different for sure and i didn't actually start watching like jiu jujitsu tournaments or world championship videos, like as a competition until a couple of years ago. But having done wrestling and jujitsu for, you know, 15, 20 years and then watching the jujitsu world championships, they were doing things that I had no idea what it was.

I didn't even like, no, I didn't even know what they were trying to accomplish or what the names of the moves were. It was like all this new stuff. And I like, I was like, how,

how am I like confused about what I'm seeing? You know what I mean? Like if you went to like the weightlifting world championships and, and Travis, you didn't know what you were seeing. You're like, what are they doing up there? And you were like confused about it.

That would be very weird for you. That would be super weird for me. I would think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You, you think you'd show up and be like,

Oh yeah, this, this is just, everything's the same. It's been like this forever. In this sport sport it has the same but yeah yeah there's been so much innovation though like now basically every world champion there is has a digital product that teaches his whole game and all the world champions have like their style and their system and their game that works for them and then now now everyone shares everything. And so now everyone kind of has to know everything.

And it's just been getting like more and more and more complicated, more and more and more effective. I would say the world of strength and conditioning is like that now. I feel like, you know, when I was younger, so just two decades ago, like there was very little being shared and it went very slow. But now like, you know like um since people like Andy Galpin are like becoming famous you're getting researchers sharing their information in a way that's simple and so now it's I say the world of strength conditioning has accelerated and I think

that you see that in like the performances like daily you're seeing things like Lasha that weren't even possible you know a couple decades ago so. So, yeah, I would say that. I would say thing with MMA is that if what happened, you know, you've had Jiu Jitsu all these years, all of a sudden, you know, you have wrestlers like you and, you know, people that are Olympians now doing Jiu Jitsu with the athleticism that you, you know, that they've never seen before. So they're able to do things unlike people in the past.

I feel like when you get athletes like that doing it, who knows what they'll come up with. Fine triangles and stuff. I feel like it's also a starting point of the conversation. From wherever you started wrestling and doing jiu-jitsu, you enter into the conversation where like as a whole the mean of that conversation is like the starting point that everybody has you know in 2004 but now after ufc's exploded there's people like galpin there's people like

dan garner there's there's these people that are doing insane things your entry point is so far ahead when you walk into like a regular jujitsu spot, like you, where you start learning now is, is insane. I think it's something in, in a comparison to the fitness space. Like if you're a 16 year old and you walk into a CrossFit gym that has really good coaching, you're going to be a complete freak by 18 years old. Like you no longer have to do like Rich Froning's program where he's just beating the crap out of himself for eight hours a day, hoping it's the right formula. Like everybody can look at you and go, Oh, like, all right here's the two-year plan to turn you into an absolute freak like you can go do mash's olympic weightlifting program you could go do hinshaw's aerobic capacity program you could go and start like have a coach that has a really

good understanding of just basic energy systems and how to train you and and build a program over two years. Like the entry point on it. And I think where we like hit the limit on fitness as a sport, specifically CrossFit, where there's a lot of opportunity in the strength and conditioning worlds, because there's so many different sports where you're applying specific things to it. But in jujitsu, it's like, it's endless, because there's just like, there's personality involved, there's people involved, it's not a perfect system, there's just like there's personality involved there's people involved it's not a perfect system there's there's no way to have the perfect game where for a lot of like crossfit stuff i'm not saying you can just it's easy to create the perfect game or the perfect training program but you're going to be way more dialed in because there's no defender yeah i feel like for especially for, but basically for everybody doing some type

of combat sport for at least a period of time, I think is really valuable. Like if you get where Doug makes fun of me, because even in comparison to some martial arts, like you could you could do, you know, karate and taekwondo and a handful of other martial arts and and not really get the full experience of of having a 100 resisting opponent yeah i mean if you're just like if you're just doing like karate katas and point sparring and things like that where like you you you tap them you know so to speak like you don't really try to knock them out like you would as like a boxer or a kickboxer you're trying to just like get a quick hit in there and then you get a point for it and then they break it up and then you reset like that type of thing like that's that's some level of something for sure it's not it's not worthless

but i feel like it's having a fully resisting opponent where you go until they say i quit is is valuable for at least a period of time you don't have to dedicate your whole life to it but if you get attacked on the street you should have some concept of what it's like to have somebody trying their hardest to to to dominate you basically and you need to know what it's like to have to be full effort resist full effort offensive at that person and you know make them do what you want them to do yeah i think that's why tony blauer was so awesome when he showed up and was like teaching basics of self-defense with a massive martial arts training background that all that stuff was like so cool and so pertinent to um like a a group of people that are very fit

but have for lack of better terms spend too much time in a gym and not in the real world. Um, like that's, I always enjoyed seeing him talk about self-defense knowing he had like this massive background in martial arts, but, um, he used to do an awesome job. I'm sure he's still doing it. I just don't talk to him as much.

Yeah. I also think in comparison to fitness, having some aspect of your life, that's, um, more reactive in nature. if you do crossfit like you you know exactly what you're going to do now and what you're going to do next and then what you're going to do next and you go at your own pace and yeah and it's just like it's all just

pre-established like you you understand the structure before you get there uh if you're playing in even if you're playing like a in a soccer or football game or something like that where like you're running you don't know which way the guy's going to go and you have to react to it like having having some elements of that jujitsu is like that of course like you're you're going against somebody you don't know which way they're going to go you have to react quickly i think having some reactive element to your training especially as you get older is really important like old people lose speed their reaction time goes down change direction decreases so having some something as a part of your normal weekly schedule where you're doing something reactionary i think

helps keep you young in a way yeah um congratulations dude i'm super proud of you know how hard you work and uh how committed you are to that and all of life's things so good work yeah you look so excited and like i know did you get sm that and all of life's things. Good work. You look so excited. Did you get smacked by all your friends? No, we didn't do that this time. What? The world's getting so soft. Now, it's all off. It's all off.

No more congratulations. You didn't even let your friends hit you with the belt. Last time I walked, it's called walking the gauntlet. People just line up on both sides. Everybody takes off their belts and everybody whips you as you walk by and and last time dude like the back of my hamstrings on both sides were just like black and blue purple like just get whipped over and over and over again but the back of the hamstring is the worst one for sure oh that sucks i'll send you a picture from a couple years ago when I got my purple belt. There's probably always some super jerk friend that really lets you have it.

Some people are like, congrats, dude. I'm very good at it. Oh, yeah, that's you? You're the jerk. I love it. Dude, I hope dog doesn't show up today. I don't want to get beat by that guy. I got my method working.

I got it down. I got it down. Well, now that you're're brown belt and you got the long arms dude talk uh let's how do we let's talk i know mash you were just saying at the beginning of the show or pre-show that you ran an entire seminar on body types and how we can kind of optimize training um how do we how do we start this conversation you've got the long arms and that's for for many things in weightlifting, that is not the optimal body type to be doing Olympic lifting.

Just in general, weight rooms are not built for people with long limbs. And I know you've had to kind of adjust in your training and some of the movement patterns that you have. But how do you – when you're breaking down your own technique and your body type, like what are some of the things that you take into consideration and you've noticed over the years of you just doing things a little bit different, specific to your body? Yeah, I tend to, especially in the world of fitness and CrossFit and weightlifting, I tend to break people down into two categories. You have like the short, short torso, long limb guys, which is more me. I have a short torso and longer arms and longer

legs. And then you're kind of prototypical weightlifter that has a very long torso and short, short legs and short arms. Um, there's a, that's a huge, there's a huge spectrum in there. You're not one of the others, not like totally binary. Um, but you can, you can usually look at somebody and say, Oh, they're, they're one or the other, or you could say they're in between. Yeah. But yeah, it's at least, it's at least good to recognize that, that these people are not the same. If you have somebody come in and, and when they, when, when they squat, like they have a totally vertical back and they have a vertical shin angle and they're, they're at rock bottom and they have their feet are narrow stance and their feet are totally straight ahead and they

just do it like that they don't even think about it they just do it well that's that person probably has a really long torso and really short legs right it's just more than likely that's the case that's the lu Xiaojuns of the world yeah the most athletic right but if you took if you took someone that's the total opposite body type you know that has you know the little lebron jameses of the world or basically any basketball player and you have them squat they're not going to squat like a weightlifter yeah like they're they're they will need much more range of motion especially especially at the ankles in order to you know have that vertical torso at the bottom of the squat but most people don't have that that kind

of extreme ankle mobility and they they're going to end up you know pitching over and bending at the torso much more than the vertical back squatters sure yeah well that's why i wanted to actually do this show because we can we can apply like a much more fitness angle to how to train people but next week on next week's show cory slessinger is the strength coach for the Phoenix Suns. And as I was getting ready to sort of prepare for the show, I was just thinking, I've been in gyms my whole life, but I've never walked into a gym where the average or the shortest guy in the room is like 6'6". If a 6'6 person walked into my CrossFit gym, I'd be like,

well, we've got a lot of figuring this thing out to do. How are we going gonna get you strong um especially like mash you have a few lifters what's is it lulu she looks like on instagram she looks like she's like six one she is six one strong girl is she really six foot one nailed it nailed it um but man if i didn't know you were a world champion power lifter and i looked at you i'd be like i bet that guy's a world record holder power lifter like you are the exact design that i would make a world record holder um like how do you start to assess your athletes specifically her because she's a i say big i don't mean big in a bad way it's like she's a

big strong girl she's six one there are not many girls that are six one right well you know there's like three there's you know if you look scientifically there's like three body types and several combinations i'm about to say you know you got the ectomorphs which are going to be like the long limbs short torso the mesomorphs which is you know me normally it's like the long limbs, short torso, the mesomorphs, which is, you know, me normally is like the athletic equal proportions. They're going to be the 89 to the 102 kilogram categories. And then you have the endomorphs. And here's what I find interesting is like the endomorphs are going to be the short limbs. They're going to be pretty much normal torsos. And they're going to be the lighter weight classes, even though they're considered like, you know,

that's what, like an overweight person would consider an endomorph, but like it's the, it's the lightweights end up being those guys. And if you look later in life, like guys like Naeem Suleimanullah becomes overweight, you know, but like they're a perfect body type athletically for those lighter weight classes. And so it's easy for them to gain muscle, but it's also easy from the game fast. They're going to struggle in that weight cut category, but you know,

that's, that's normally the three that we look at. I feel like, I feel like with bodybuilders, a lot of, a lot of bodybuilders, they, it's more likely that you could be a professional bodybuilder.

In my opinion, if you're a person that builds muscle easily then you have to work really hard to knock the fat off versus if you're just being pull skinny and you're trying to work to put on muscle mass your whole life you're never going to be the amazingly

jacked bodybuilder you know what's funny is the ectomorphs the skinny dudes are the heavyweights. They're the lachas of the world. And so they have to work really hard to get that big. But the only chance they have at that height, like

Morgan, he's going to have to work super hard to be at the weight class he needs to be because he's 6'1 as well. It's about that ministry. um yeah it does seem more common with with uh shorter people to have the long torso relative to short limbs proportions like i don't know i have no idea what the data data actually says on this but like of people that are like below five six i wonder like what the what the percentage is of like long

torso short limb versus the opposite versus like people that are over 6'6". Like how many people that are over 6'6 have really long torsos and really short limbs as their proportions? It's probably a very low percentage from what I've ever seen. But when you get one like Blasha, you know, who actually proportionally he's designed to be a weight. He might be 6'6", but his femurs in relation to everything else are short and so and his arms are really normal and so then you get somebody who has a massive amount of leverage because that torso becomes a heck of a torque you know creator is uh for lack of a better word yeah so then you get power like that's never been of, like we're seeing from a guy like Lashon.

Yeah, I would never actually think that he has short legs. In relation to that. Of course, because he's a giant. Relative. He's like a real giant on the earth. I've shook his hand, and his hand swallowed my hand. And I have big hands. And he made me feel like I was a two-year-old.

So yeah. Yeah. Um, when you just think about like basic movement requirements, um, I feel like there used to be a stigma attached to being like six, two, six, three of like, you just can't be strong at that, at that weight. Obviously Lasha is like the freak of the freaks. I think Olympic weightlifting is another place that all of that thinking has really been thrown out the window with the new kind of like era of Olympic weightlifting and people that are relatively strong, lean, tall people that are doing really well. When you're coaching the mash, what are some of the differences? I guess, do they have the same body dimensions in a way? It's just a little bit longer when you start dealing with two people? Or is there legit coaching that needs to be done to teach some sort of technique and form differences for somebody that is maybe 6'1", 6'2", with a lighter body weight? I think there are going to be some differences.

I think, you know, back in the day, they would have said, you know, people would have said absolutely zero arm bend. And I think when you get the person with long arms, even like a CJ Cummins, who's got proportionally, you know, longer arms than the typical, you know, a 73 kilogram lifter. I think you have to make exceptions. And I feel like those people are naturally probably going to bend their arms. And if they don't, they're not going to, you know, that bar is not going to be in their hip, you know, in the snatch when they are in the power position. So I think you're definitely going to have to be okay with, you know, making some exceptions and realizing that those exceptions aren't a big deal

at all, obviously, since, you know, CJ is the best American winger of all time. And so, so yeah, there's going to be some difference. I feel like too, you're going to find that there's going to, I feel like in the different body types, nine times out of 10, there's going to be some differences in fiber types. Like for example, you look at like a Tom Suma who is naturally close. And by the way, I was going to say too, they've done a really good job now, scientifically, instead of saying

ecto, endo, meso, there's a scale. It's like you take the three somatotypes and the scale is between one to seven and then you rank them. So like you look at say a Lasha and you say as a, as an endomorph, you're probably a five. And then as a mesomorph, you know, you're two,

but so you give them, you know, the scale. And then there's a really good image that, you know, I'll send you guys when this is over, maybe you could put in the show notes. Yeah.

It says, depending on where you rank in that scale, nine times out of 10, you're a weightlifter or a wrestler or a gymnast. And it's some really good information that really is pretty damn dead on when it comes to ranking these people. But like, but like the point I was going to make is like a Tom Suma, who's probably going to be you know more of the you know ectomorph type of lifter um he's you're you're gonna need a lot more volume for those people they seem to be a little bit hard gainers you know and so like they're going to need a lot more volume whereas like a mesomorph like a nathan demron it's not going to take much at all you know like uh yeah it's going to take lower volume.

If you do too much, you're going to hurt that person. And then, and it scales down even more when you become in the more. So yeah, there, I feel like there's some really good research to say, you know, depending on where you are in that spectrum, there's going to be significant differences on odds. You know, odds are. Yeah. When you the the skinny

lanky guys more volume because they just need more volume to put on muscle mass um do you have a do you have a preference for giving them more volume with movements that they're mechanically advanced to perform so if you're a long if you're a long limb short torso short torso person like i was saying at the very beginning like you're trying to do like close stance squats like your your ankle angle is going to be much steeper which is going to push your knee much more forward which is going to put more stress on your knee that's not like that's not like a bad thing necessarily like that's just a part of the sport like you're you're lifting weights like your joints are going to are going to incur some stress no matter what um but if you are if you're a person that has prototypical

weight lifting proportions and versus a person that has the opposite and you do the exact same amount of volume the person person with the ideal proportions is just going to take on less damage way less damage i mean so the other person they need more volume to put on muscle mass so you don't want to just you know double the squatting volume of the other guy and give that to him because he's probably going to be beat up from doing it so do you add extra volume for them in a in a mechanically advantaged way like doing doing more lunges and deadlifts or whatever it is we did you know we did a lot of that but really what we did is uh i found that you know the guys that are more on the ectomorph range they are actually really good

weightlifters and so like you know like tom is by far the probably by far probably but he is the best weightlifter i've coached like if you watch that guy lift every ounce of power he has will go into his snatches and clean and jerks, and he can make it. Like, you know, there was a time where he clean and jerked 165 before he front squatted 165. So efficiency-wise, he was awesome. So what we did, you know, more of like, you know, Bob McKinnon, you know, advantageous positions. We just did less of the lifts because really it's the snatch and the clean and jerk that I found to be more brutal on the joints because they're so fast. And, you know, the amount of deceleration they require is way more than a controlled squat or controlled deadlift.

And so we were able to squat him a lot with very little damage at all, you know, as long as I peeled back the snatching and the clean jerking in his instance. But, yes, a lot of his – a lot of that still was done with, like, you know, we did step-ups, a super-controlled step-up is even less, you know, damaging. You know, a lunge can sometimes get out of control, but a step-up is easier to control. So, yeah, so we did that but uh did you talk i believe it was dr bar that you were talking to about tendon health and and all that have you noticed in in longer athletes um like tendon health being an issue as you get into the higher volume stuff for for weight lifting or or power, just the overall damage or recovery, I guess you could go say it better, for athletes with longer limbs?

That's a great question. It would be quite the opposite. I found, especially since we've been tracking it now for the last month, is we're finding the guys that are naturally stronger, and so like Nathan Damron, he's the one you got to look out for for tendons, you know, whereas the taller lanky guys, for some odd reason, have a massive amounts of torque in their, in their tendons. And so, but,

so what you got to look for them is muscular tears. And so like, cause their tendons are thick and they're normally springy. If you go out and sprint, they're probably going to be fast. However, you know, it's going to be really hard to get them muscularly strong.

So therefore, you know, you got this tendon that is super tight, both where it connects to the bone and where it connects to the muscle. Yet the muscle is not strong enough for the tightness. And so you get a muscle pull. Whereas Nathan, you know, the tendon is – you know, the muscle is so strong,

and, you know, the tendon is not strong enough to handle what that muscle can do. So that would be the correlation I'm drawing. So look, I'm four weeks in. You said there's a lot that could change. That's what I've noticed up to now. Yeah. I actually didn't even think about Nathan until you said his name the first time of like, when, when you create an athlete that has like,

or when you find an athlete that has a body that is just designed to back squat, he's like the perfect human being. He is. Like his femur length and torso is like the most – the first time I saw him squat, I was like, oh, who knew that God made a human that was designed to back squat? He's designed to back squat. He's the perfect body for all of it.

Like, his torso is just perfectly upright because his femurs fit so perfectly when he sits down. It's unreal watching that guy squat. Watching him lift is like anything I've ever done. When I watch him squat, when he snatches clean jerks, I see plenty of people snatch a clean jerk. It's the ease of which, say like when he squats 250 kilos, he makes it look like it's body weight only. It's the weirdest thing. His body makes the squatting piece so easy that all – I shouldn't say all he has to work on, but a massive part of it

is just the time and explosion of getting out of the hole and being powerful at the bottom, and he's obviously mastered that. It's so insane watching that guy lift weights. He made a very good point one time we were talking. And he's a man of very little words. But when he talks, he should listen because it's normally something profound. And one time we were going to Georgia, the country of Georgia, and I was sitting on the plane and he came up and sat by me.

And he's like, Travis, I've been thinking. I'm like, and then I stopped everything I was doing and listen, he's like, you know, because people were giving him a hard time about not being efficient. And he's never going to be. Guys like Kim, Luiz Aljan, Piros, they're not going to be efficient

as defined by the Russian scientists in 1970. They're just not because they're just designed to squat. But what it gives them, here's what it does though, is it gives him the ability, because he has this massive amount of squat built up, he can do snatch and clean and jerk way more often than most people, than like a guy like Tom, because it's such a small percentage of his absolute strength. So it doesn't beat him up, if that makes sense. And I'm like, yeah, it's the most profound thing. I think it makes a case for maybe we shouldn't worry about, you know, being so efficient.

You know, it's going to be what it's going to be. You're going to find an athlete who's going to develop a ratio, and that's going to be their ratio. And that just follows them the rest of their career. You're defining efficiency as your snaps and clean and jerk as a percentage of your squat max? Of squat right right right so it's like i think uh most people would say that you should uh clean and jerk like 76 percent um i'm just pulling out i'm pretty sure that's it uh of your back squat and so and nathan if he did that like 80 85 percent yeah uh

yeah yeah snatch like 60 something like 10% less than that yeah I went the wrong direction yeah but so Nathan to do that I'll just give you the math if he did 76% of his best back squat he would be clean jerking 243 kilos

at 96 and it's never been done it's impossible so people need to chill And so at 96, and it's never been done. It's not, you know, it's impossible. So, so chill. People need to chill. Yeah. That was the efficiency thing. Yeah.

Um, I think Olympic weightlifting has progressed in, in, because they have weight classes, like you start to find these ideal body types for specific like weight classes sometimes. And I think, um think one of the coolest parts about coming from like the cross, more CrossFit background is the ability to see because there are no weight classes when a sport starts and like just tens of thousands of people

are competing in the exact same competition. And at the beginning stages, you have like some random guy that's like six, two, and you've got like Elijah Muhammad, who's a big, strong weightlifter that doesn't look like a weightlifter. Uh, but over the year, over the years of like the last 12, 13 years, when you, when you look at the lineup of, of guys that now make it and, and females that make it to the finals and win year after year, there's like an exact body type of the five, six to five, eight, 200 pounds man that is insanely strong with perfect femurs, with perfect arm lengths. Like there is an exact

body type that is allows you to be good at that many things where you can still build an engine obviously there's like yes the ability to like have a work capacity and develop that and put in all the work and all the hours but to have like a fighting chance you you almost like need to be that i almost feel so bad sometimes for for like brent fikowski because like just like the year where those guys were going to make it and then the guy that looks exactly like matt frazier comes out of relatively nowhere and destroys everyone it's like the problem is is you when you do 150 wall balls you have to move four extra inches yes and over 150, you're doing 20% more work throughout the workout.

And you can't beat that in time. It gets to a point where there's just a math equation going on of like, when you own a gym and you see all the people come in and you put enough people into the higher level competitions and you go, well, there's Ryan Fisher. That guy's stronger than everyone i know and he's five four yeah i think he's gonna beat everyone he doesn't have to move the bar when he deadlifts no wonder he could deadlift 600 pounds when he's 25 years old

he only has to get off the ground four inches yeah like it's just there's like a specific looking person that's going to be world class when the constraints of it aren't bound by weight classes and the goal is to be good at everything. You have to look a certain way. They're going to be the purest. They're going to be the purest mesomorph. They're going to be a 171 purest, extreme mesomorph. A 171. That's a one, seven, one purist extreme. A one, seven, one.

That's what they are. So. Wasn't that, wasn't that part of the deal with the, with silly Mongalu also, he mentioned earlier about like, he's so short, he's,

you know, four foot 11 or whatever he is. Um, and has such short legs that like, really he's not starting from like mid shin. He's doing like a below the knee rack pole. Right. You know what I mean?

Like he's starting high enough where like in general, like if you can start a little higher than it's just, it's you're just stronger in that position. Maybe you don't have as much time to produce force on the bar to create speed, but it seemed to be an advantage for him to like, just not have to move the bar as far. Well,

yeah, he does it. See what happens. This is a great question. And it's one I've never heard before, but it makes total sense. It's like, what happens? Like a a great question, and it's one I've never heard before, but it makes total sense. It's like what happens, like a guy like Nathan, when he does a block pull, like he snatched 170 years ago from that position

where it's off the ground a little bit. And, like, because it's going to guarantee he's in the right position. All that matters for guys like Nathan or for Ryan is that they're in a certain position when they're in the right position. All that matters for guys like Nathan or for Ryan is that they're in a certain position when they're in the power position. But when they start from the floor, there's so much room for error. And so a guy like Naeem, the pocket Hercules, is yeah, there's less room for error.

And odds are he's going to be in a better position in that power position. And therefore, he's going to lift way more than everybody else. So that's a great point. Yeah, I think people that train taller athletes, like if you're training basketball players, again, we can go back to like the short torso, long limb things and make some adjustments based on that body type.

I'm happy to talk about that too. But if you are training a person like that, you also need to be aware that like, if you're seven feet tall, then it's almost like you're doing deficit pulls all the time because the bar is like just above your ankles. Yes. You know what I mean? So it's almost like you're standing on 45-pound plates pulling from deficit. So they need less volume, you know, less traditional volume because like even though it's less, it's still really going to be the same because every time they do something, it's more work than the other guy. So when Ryan does something and when Lasha does something, you know,

Lasha's pretty much doing two reps for every one of Ryan's because of how tall he is. And so you have to consider that. And that should be, you know, in the program what you should really think about. So, yeah, great point. You know, with the longer-limbed athletes, my observation is that longer-limbed athletes have a lot harder time putting muscle specifically on their limbs. It's harder to like – if you have long arms, it's just hard to have big biceps and triceps. And even if you do have big biceps and triceps, they actually still look smaller because your arms are so long that the diameter doesn't look as big compared to if your arms were short.

Right. Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. If you look at Morgan, look at him. diameter doesn't look as big compared to if your arms were short. Right. Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. If you look at Morgan, look at him. He doesn't look big at all. His thighs look – he looks like a good athlete, and his arms look teeny. Well, not teeny, but not near as strong as he is. But, yeah, he'll go and clean and jerk 200 kilograms.

And so, yeah, I think that's a very good observation. I think another one would be bar path. I think in America, we've made some mistakes. You know, we think there should be a certain bar type. Like if you go into a gym and you hear a lot of coaches trying to make, this is weightlifting. I'm not just talking CrossFit. In weightlifting and CrossFit gyms, you'll say they'll either be looking for a straight bar path or sometimes

they'll be looking for that S curve, you know, which is probably closer to the truth. But then when actual studies, there was one by, it was Stone and Kyle Pierce. And those two other guys, but those are two I know. And what they did, they went to the 2015 World of houston in the 2016 pan ams in miami and they found actually there are four distinct bar pass in the and this is the a sessions and now but like for the traditional s curve the type two actually when it gets to be 102 classes two classes and above, nobody does that. Nobody that meddled in either competition did that traditional S curve.

And they actually didn't believe her. Not the bar goes out a little bit off the floor, which makes total sense because they have long tibias. So no matter what you do, you're not going to get that athlete. You're not going to get Lasha to not go out just a little bit off the floor. However, then they're going to be strong enough to get it back. It's still going to be an S, but it's going to be a distinct curve off the ground.

And for the straight bar pass, for anyone teaching that, you should stop because it's the last place. If it's like there's a type 1, 2, 3, and 4, 4 is more of a straight up and down. Like that is the worst bar path that you want to have. So don't do that. I love that you say that's the worst one because that was like what Klokov used to come into the United States and go, it's an RDL with a jump. No.

No, it's not. Not for most people. No, no, no. It's the only problem having these weightlifters go and start teaching how to lift because you know they don't understand science they just know that they're strong they're probably good at weightlifting from day one so they don't know how to teach it yeah like if i if i try to snatch with my with my feet like hip width apart toes straight ahead in order for the bar not to run into my shins,

I either have to pop my butt up really quick and do the stripper squat type thing where you do end up in an RDL position where you're at the top of your first pull, but you're all the way bent over and you're totally out of position. You're going to move forward and on and on. And so I need to get my knees out of the way of the bar. And the only way to do that while maintaining a good back angle is, is to, is to toe out

a little bit and push my knees out super wide. The wider I push my knees out, you know, if, if, if you, if your toes are straight ahead, your, your knees are, your femurs are going to point straight ahead. If you, if you point your, your toes way out to the side, your knees are going to go way out to the side. And the more out to the side they go, the more back toward you, they come. Right. Does that make sense? Can you picture that? You got a confused look on your face yeah have a technique while in this whole thing people can go watch look up like uh weightlifting for people with long limbs and um i i demo it on the video of course but yeah so um

towing out and pushing your knees out super wide is one way to have it where you can maintain the back angle and keep your hips down as you progress through your first pull without running into your shins. And then a guy like Lasha is still good. Even you, though, I'd like to do a bar, you know, a bar path on you. I would be surprised if the bar doesn't at least either travel straight for a while or out a little bit. But Lasha is, you know, 100% of the medalists from 102 and above they're always going to go out a little bit 100 of the time not just like most of the time 100 that was that so it was crazy yeah coach travis mash where can the people find you mashley.com or go to uh you go to twitter at mashley uh tell me on linkedin to doug larson tell the or go to uh you go to twitter at mashley and send me out on linkedin to doug

larson tell the people where to find you i'd say find me on instagram but i don't fucking have one right now oh yeah we got our shit stolen we lost our we lost our shrugged account and then i lost my personal account oh my god doug who's doing this to y'all well okay so here here's here's like the very short story so hackers real hackers stole the shrugged account and then basically ransomed us for it and i didn't pay them and so i don't have that right now but um i went on my personal account said hey does anybody work for instagram or facebook that can help us out here and have some people reach out and i'm in in contact in communication rather with uh some person that works at Facebook who seems very confident they get our account back but it sounds like the there were some some email

account mix-ups with like you know what account started the account versus what what email account is now now tied to each Instagram account and Instagram messed up and they tried to reset my account but they reset my personal account and so now I lost both accounts but I think Instagram took my personal so hopefully I get that one back at a minimum and then hopefully they figure out how to get our our actual account back right now I have nothing though I think the hackers sent you an email though saying take a picture of yourself with the password that you were gonna give to them so that they could be like I got you forever now yeah i just proved to instagram that we're you someone in the comments

said something about like you're gonna have to take a picture with a code like write the code on a piece of paper take a picture with yourself and then send that in then i got that email from from facebook saying that i should do that i was like oh yeah someone said i was supposed to do this and then we talked to to the guy that works for facebook and he's like oh yeah don should do that. I was like, oh yeah, someone said I was supposed to do this. And then we talked to the guy that works for Facebook and he's like, oh yeah, don't do that. That's the hackers. I was like, okay, great. Fuck. The whole time, the whole time I had no idea if I was actually talking to Facebook or like Instagram people over email or if it was hackers and it was like all fake. How do you protect from that happening? What a nightmare. Like how do I protect from that happening to 94 000 people

brian too gone yeah brian borstein he brian actually talked to me he got it back um you know it's funny i talked to mash i believe you've coached his sons or maybe coached him i know he's done our one-ton challenge program floyd farms wait yeah yeah sure flo, I believe is his name. Um, I'm having a tough day with names. So I'm sorry if I messed that up. Um, so he texted me and he's like, dude, I was like, man, these, these hackers are such slimy dudes. Like they do every trick in the book. And he's like, this is my job is to find the hackers and shut them down. And he goes, no idea he goes like i may be interviewing somebody for like a position in finding hackers and he goes and i'll be interviewing a hacker that's telling me how good he is at finding hackers and i think he's great at it because he is one and he

knows everything and then they hire him and then they bring him into the the company and then he tells his friends all about it and he's hacking everything he's like they are the biggest gangsters in the whole internet he's like they are so that's right he's got a son yeah yeah he's like um he was just like man he's like they are so slimy you have no idea how deep it goes. I'm not sure I got hacked and they took it. Hackers. How do you even know when someone's like – the fact that somebody came and sent you a DM and then an email and was in the comments saying, oh, this is going to happen. They're perpetuating that they already know the system so well that you're just going to keep falling into their trap over and over again. That would make me – I would love to find those people and kill them.

Like that's some crap. The problem is like you think it's some dude in his mom's basement. It's not. It's like the most intense savages of all time. They probably have a high rise in Manhattan. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Best internet signal in the whole game.

As high as you can – they live at the top of the internet signal. They whole game as high as you can they live at the top of the the internet signal they're like right there so they can be fast man why are you messing you probably you probably like yeah they're not i know one thing they're not lenore ryan lifting weights i'm anders varner at anders varner hopefully by the time this show airs we are barbell shrugged at barbell underscore shrugged and if if not, in November, you need to get over to the 2200 Walmarts that we are going to be in on the shelves. And if you're at a Walmart and you don't see my face on a box

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there's a pre-workout, there's a fat burner. And we're working with New Vitality and it's really, really cool stuff. I can't wait for more information to come out, but November, we're going to be in 2,200 stores. Make sure you get over to dieseldadmentorship.com. Fill out an application for busy dads that want to lose 20 to 40 pounds by supporting natural testosterone without drugs, doctors, and destructive diets. Friends, we'll see you guys next week.