Barbell Shrugged - Mobility, Stability and Strength w/ Dr. Jordan Jiunta and Dr. Jordan Shallow - 296

Episode Date: January 17, 2018

Dr. Jordan Jiunta and Dr. Jordan Shallow are co-founders of Pre-Script, co-hosts of RX’D RADIO, chiropractors, and competitive athletes. Jiunta competes in CrossFit and Olympic Weightlifting, and is a CrossFit Level 1 trainer. Shallow competes in Powerlifting and also coaches strength and conditioning at Stanford University Rugby Team. Jiunta understands the importance of learning and training our bodies natural movement patterns to not only prevent injury, but to live a higher quality life as well. Shallow’s patients range from world-class athletes to 9–5 weekend warriors, and he understands the needs of each individual paired with the demand of their lifestyle. In this episode, we dive into why and how they created Pre-Script, a service dedicated to helping its members move better, and perform at their best. We cover how they assess athletes, why stability is misunderstood, why scaled stimulus is more than resistance, and more. ► Subscribe to Barbell Shrugged's Channel Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Barbell Shrugged helps people get better. Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast and Barbell Logic. Find Barbell Shrugged here: Website: http://www.BarbellShrugged.com Facebook: http://facebook.com/barbellshruggedpodcast Twitter: http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged Instagram: http://instagram.com/barbellshruggedpodcast Find Barbell Business Here: Website: http://www.BarbellBusiness.com Facebook: http://facebook.com/barbellbusiness Twitter: http://twitter.com/barbellbusiness Instagram: http://instagram.com/barbellbusinesspodcast

If I wanted to dislocate his shoulder, I brought him here. Now we've traded that structure for function. But when we are under load, our body keeps like an inventory, an active trade-off of like, okay, we're trading off structural stability for mobility. And the shoulder is a good example because I can't get my hip over or my foot over my head. We'll be right back. Well, we're going to Barbell Shrugged. I'm Mike Bledsoe here with Doug Larson. We're hanging out here in Encinitas. And, well, we're here at Physical Culture 101, the gym we train at most of the time.

Thanks to those guys for letting us come hang out. And Jordan and Jordan have come to visit us. That's Jordan Shallow and Jordan Junta. These guys, they run RX Radio, and they're also two chiropractors. So I want to let you guys talk about yourselves a little bit first. So which Jordan wants to go first? Give us your background. I'll take it. I'll take it off the floor.

Yeah. Dr. Jordan Junta. I'm a chiropractor. I've been in practice about two years now. Recently, Jordan and myself started the radio channel RX Radio, and our website, our online business, is called Prescript, www.pre-script.com. And that's online injury prevention corrective exercise programming. We do personalized programming there. We do preset programs, so upper body, lower body stuff to kind of work out some of the common tendencies that you'll see in training related injuries.

What about athletically? What's your background? How'd you get into training? And what do you do for your training these days? Originally, I wrestled the entire first part of my life first 20 years of my life um some injuries kind of got me out of that and i still love training i love strength and conditioning in general um i was doing kind of the the bro workouts and that eventually led me into through an old wrestling coach into crossfit um i've been doing crossfit about six years now i've competed at the last four last four California regionals once on a team, three times as an individual.

And now I'm kind of shifting gears into weightlifting. So that'll be my pursuit in 2018. Nice. Right on Jordan. Yeah. I guess we got to stick with doctor Jordan. My sister's the real doctor. You can't let him say doctor.

You can not say doctor. Yeah. Yeah. He's going to have one up on me. Jordan shallow from southwestern Ontario. It's a small town called Windsor, which is basically if you fly south from Detroit, you run into my hometown. So I moved out to California and met this joker like six years ago.

We've been in practice two years. Run an office out of Boss Barbell Club in Mountain View, California. So it's kind of a more sought after powerlifting facility. Through osmosis, got into powerlifting about a year and a half ago and just took to it. Like always strength trained, played hockey growing up, go figure, being Canadian. About to save your life.

Appreciate it. Flicked a spider right off your arm. If I would have saw that, I would have passed out. So that's really good. At least we're in Australia. Just like you said earlier, I could give you the size of a dinner plate have passed out. So that's really good. At least we're in Australia. Just like you said earlier, I could be the size of a dinner plate. Yeah, no thanks.

I'm good. No, so I grew up playing hockey. You know, you kind of give up the dream if you're not in the NHL by like 16. So I just took to lifting weights, skipped practice to just hit the gym. And I was a goalie, so I had a buddy who was like, hey, why don't you just get really big? You don't have to move. And I was like, yeah, let's try that. So it's kind of a natural transition style yeah so it's just a a natural transition like always squat bench and deadlift never competitive um then just sort of under the the guidance of the guy actually practiced in his gym dan green um

started into it a year and a half ago and just really took to it and that's kind of my my go now so you say you never competed in powerlifting i know i've competed five times since yeah it's been a busy it's been a busy two years of competing pretty much non-stop uh my first one in santa cruz my second one was reebok record breakers and then i've done um well in the last three i got fourth at the u.s open third at the arnold's's in Australia, and I got first at the Reebok Record Breakers that just came by. So, yeah, for those in the powerlifting circle, 1901 total, 242. So it's, oh, geez.

Seven, well, best lifts are 727 squat, 441 bench, and a 755 pull. So, yeah, that's kind of me in a nutshell when it comes to like the the lifting part of things yeah started yeah rx radio and prescript with jordan um also work at stanford university as the strength and conditioning coach for the men's and women's rugby team just in my spare time so yeah that's uh that's pretty much a wrap on that right so a lot of you guys do these days are helping athletes stay healthy. If they are injured, you're helping them get back to being full-time competitive athletes that are healthy, pain-free, joint pain is managed. Did you get a lot of injuries before you were as experienced as you are now, and that's why you got into this field? Or how did you come to really want to help out injured athletes?

Yeah, I mean, I had some pretty nasty injuries playing goalie growing up. I don't have medial meniscus in either of my knees. And it was actually a chiropractor that got me kind of into the field. But I think the pursuit of the career just stems from the lifting. Anything that starts to ache or pain, it's like you kind of empathize with people when they come into your office and it's like they're hurt so bad they can't lift. And it's like you put yourself in those shoes and it's like i'm not fit to talk to if i if i haven't worked out like i'll fly back to canada for a day and my mom will like i'll get off the plane it's like six hours and you're dealing with

luggage and all this and i'll just go to the gym we'll talk when you get back i haven't seen her like a year and a half and she's like just go so i think you put yourself in those shoes and it makes it just a different angle from a practitioner's standpoint where you can really kind of um the buy-in is there because it's different to say like oh yeah i know uh that must really suck but it's another thing entirely to be like oh no i've been there i've torn this i've ripped this out i've had this surgery it's like here's not only how you can come back and lift here's how you come back and get stronger so i think that's kind of the driving force is like every time we write a program it's like it's like if this guy came to me and was like dude my rotator cuff I was doing whatever crossfit things and that's how far I've come in two years um and it's like I mean I know

how that is you know you walk in and you talk to uh Cairo a lot of times and you're like oh what do you do for fitness I'm like oh I cycle once a week yeah I'm like oh man i don't think he understands where i'm coming from right now yeah i just think we can always scale it back right like you said like work with athletes it's like by and large just it's like define your function define what your sport is i mean life's a pretty unbalanced sport as it is right and so we both live in the silicon valley have like a lot of experience with patient base of you know the nine to five tech crowd so a lot of unbalanced people yeah on the keyboard yes but i think if you can tune that stimulus out to a point where you can you know you can work with the top end olympic lifters you can work with the top end power lifters you can work with the top end athletes anything within that

spectrum is is within your capabilities to handle um and then it just becomes managing the psychological side and the buy-in yeah what about you do you have any nasty injuries back in the day that you that you potentially even still working around um nothing that really lingers maybe knock on some wood with that but um i've had probably the worst injury uh two worst injuries i've had is i tore an mcl wrestling that's the one that kind of i'll say in air quotes ended my wrestling career but it was more so of a decision that i wanted to take care of i'll say in air quotes ended my wrestling career but it was more so of a decision that i wanted to take care of my body and just be healthy be pain-free um that's that's what got me away from that um the the worst lifting related injury is i had a really

bad si sprain that put me out for probably about eight eight to twelve weeks in that area it was bad it was um it was pretty debilitating in the beginning stages you can't really with low back pain you can't really do much you can't drive without pain you can't sit you can't stand it sucks to lay down so um that was one of the worst injuries that i've had that it took me and that was in my beginning stages across it before i was competitive you know when i was in that hype of oh my god i need to do everything if I miss a workout everyone else is getting better and I'm not um in that stage so it it really took a toll on me psychologically to not be able to work out for that amount of time um and that was as I was getting into chiropractic school as I was learning about the body and I really in that period started to geek

out on movement patterns and how you should be moving and proper technique and things like that um so that I think and then soon soon after that is when I got my CrossFit Level 1 and got into the coaching too. So all those things kind of came together to get me thinking about how can I prevent this in other people. So that's one of the big principles that we built Prescript on is that how can we help other people not go through the stuff that I've been through. Yeah, I mean, you want to become an expert at something about the human body just destroy it yeah you'll be getting interested really fast love it let it kill you man and that's why we identify with the athletes that we do because like we wear the hat of the clinician but we wear the hat of the athlete and i think me and him are more prone to keeping the hat of the athlete on

where it's like you go out on your shield man like this is the whole point if you want to win there's a difference between maximal and optimal the optimal health crunching and all this stuff it's like sure there's a market for that but if you want to if you want to see what your red line is let's really push the envelope and then if something happens we'll rebuild from there but like building the resiliency and like just the iron clad structure from like the mobility stability strength standpoint I think for us so far it's it's been a really receptive model to the clients we've worked with I mean we're 15 16 countries now so it's really been really been well received and then that's just

with the online and we use the corrective exercises every day in our office with the patients we see one-on-one so and that I think helps Kind of control for the intake that you get because it's like oh this what I'm seeing in front of me online I know someone that looks just like this obviously different like morphological permutations Let it's gonna differ from person to person But you know if you're if you're devising a plan based off of a history and you're planning to get a lot out of that Being able to recognize patterns, but be able to put a face like oh i have a patient file in my office that literally looks verbatim of what i'm looking at on my screen then it's like okay what worked what didn't work and

then start from there you can start uh just like designating values to each movement based off of it just becomes logarithmic it's like okay i've had to sub this exercise out a few times i always think that you know this particular band of distraction is going to be beneficial for this condition. But they come back and say it's agitating. So I'm going to scrap that. I'm going to push that down the list. And then you just, over time, you actually distill out, like, a better product every time. Like, if an automated car gets in a crash, it talks to all the other automated cars, and every car gets better at driving.

If you just go smash your car into a wall you're not a better driver so that's kind of how we work with like doing the back end like data points and actually making the programs better as we go along so it's like we try and really cut out the redundancy and the idea and i think this is something that i mean you touched on in the initial stages of saying like you know when you first started crossfit it was like more and more, more. And I think dose dependency is something that's so huge in fitness culture in general, right? Like fermented foods are great. I'm going to do sauerkraut.

I'm going to do kefir. I'm going to do this. Like, oh, really? You live in Korea and Georgia and Germany at the same time? Why are you eating all three of these in one day? It's 2017, man. Right? I'll ship it from Chile.

Because whole foods, from chili because whole foods bro because whole foods well no and i think dose dependency with mobility and i find it more in the crossfit realm but you guys have just swung the pendulum the other way where power lifters like it was like a tight muscles a strong muscle which is equally as detrimental so i think what we tried to do is we really tried i just like it's like in my head just had like the power lifter walking around like i'm not supposed to be able to tie my shoes i can't put my hand over my head that's ridiculous the single ply fascial suit that they have on that they need like 300 to get to depth i know i think i we kind of abide by the principle of you know addition by subtraction

right the idea is not to get better at pre-script workouts to get better at pre-script workouts the idea is to get better at pre-script workouts to get better at pre-script workouts the idea is to get better at pre-script workouts to get better at squat bench dead to get better at snatch clean handstand walks and you know all that stuff too right so it's like you find what works but we really try and instill like create an inventory right flip flip tiles where it's like find a match like the way we integrate it is like we go through progressions of mobility stability and strength but we always integrate like some sort of compound movement some sort of high threshold nervous system load and that's relative to the condition you have like that high threshold load could be like a counterbalance squat with a 10 pound plate

but it's something that's integrating each joint and each muscle we're trying to have a isolated effect on in that warm-up from either mobility or stability or strength standpoint based off how you present because i think a lot of people you know they'll do their yoga classes they'll go home it's like no you need to you need to put a current through that you need to you've made these transient changes to the nervous system even if you're foam rolling you're making you're not making structural changes i think that's pretty well founded now and a lot of people in the know are like no no it's transient neural inhibition right so with that we have this new perception if we load that then our bodies actually recover when we're not

under load because our rev limiter is not our own body weight putting one foot in front of the other we've been in this transient stable position with 300 pounds on our back then all of a sudden when you walk around it's like oh now we're making now we're making changes my glutes aren't super tight because i've had i walked out three three bills and it wasn't an issue. Then when I'm 265 and I'm walking around, it's like, okay, I can handle this. Then you start to recover. Then it starts to compound, and then you start that addition by subtraction process. So you've mentioned multiple times that model of mobility, stability, and strength.

How did you come up with that model, and exactly how do you apply that to an athlete that comes to you who's hurt? Yeah, that's just through experience. A lot of it is just simple biomechanics. Your joints, my joints, Jordan's joints, Mike's joints, they all work the same, right? If we're creating force through those joints, there's going to be a better and a worse way to do it, right? And we're just reinforcing the better ways to do it. So first we have to be able to move through that entire range of motion, right? If we're just staying in flexion extension

as we do our squats, that's okay. That's one way to do it. But you need that rotation. You need that abduction, adduction. So we need to free up that full range of motion that your joints are capable of. And then from there, what we'll do is we'll take a look at that. Like, okay, we can now get you through that full range of motion. Let's do these, you know, lightweight, more bodyweight drills to stabilize that range of motion. Get you to be able to control it. And then that's when we start to add in the strength. Yeah, it seems like a very logical progression.

You have to be able to achieve a range of motion before you can be stable in that range of motion. You have to be stable in that range of motion before you can gain you know maximum strength within that range of motion so it seems like a very logical way to do it i just think the conventional model and you hear it all the time was like i don't get it i stretch all the time it's like exactly you stretch you stretch to an end range of motion that you can't control stability i think is the tributary out of that cycle that a lot of people don't understand because they don't understand the difference between like anatomically loading a muscle correctly but neurologically loading it as well like this idea of stimulus being like a currency like we're close enough to san diego or to mexico that i could you know i could walk in some places in chula vista with pesos i'm sure they'd take it but i'd have to give more pesos it's like if i could have that direct transfer, that one-to-one exchange rate of neurologically and anatomically loading a muscle,

like it's stability I think is really misunderstood because when people think stability, they think we're going to program like BOSI walls. It's like, no, no, no. We don't need extra physiological range of motion to resist force at these end ranges that we create through our mobility. It's like stand on one leg. Stand on one leg at Whole Foods. Hold your grocery bag at one hand. See how long you can do it for all right now hinge forward right deviating your

center of mass outside of a limited base of support that's all you need to do you don't need extra physiological stimulus of stability because it's not dependent on weight right like things that work in a rotational plane are not beholden to the forces of gravity that come down on them right like our quads and our hamstrings, they need to be strong, right? But if our glute med can't keep those femurs stable enough, they're not going to be able to be strong. And then you're going to, you know, you're going to blow your ACL. You're not going to be able to have your hamstring.

You're not going to be able to retain your tibia. You're going to blow your ACL. So it's like, I think stability is really what we pride ourselves on. And it's the, it's dynamic correspondence. Like we look at programming these exercises, like the way we look at programming for weaknesses are at lift. Like if I come off a deadlift and it's like, I'm slow off the floor, I think I'm weak in my quads. I'll put together a couple of cycles of like, you know, safety bar squatting or high bar squatting, these accessory movements that'll build what I think to be my main

weakness. But it's like, let's look bigger picture here. Like a lot of powerlifters, I'm going to stay in my vein here. It's like your elbows are going to hurt three weeks out from a meet because your intensity and your frequency of squatting is going to go up well if you don't have that external rotation abduction of the shoulder you're going to be generating torque here because you can't generate mobility here so you're going to try and rotate through a hinge then you're going to end up with these blown out elbows and it's like oh man i couldn't lock out my bench I'm gonna hit triceps for the next like six weeks. It doesn't mean anything This is your rate limiter this shoulder mobility is your rate limiter and then go down that line of like mobility stability strength there Now you're actually making like tangible measurable changes

And that's what we're after is like I got don't get better our workouts to get better at our workouts get better our workouts We can see more numbers on the platform. We can see less time in a WOD. So that's kind of like wearing that athlete's hat allows us to kind of increase the buy-in because the metrics we're chasing are, they're subjective improvements, but if you can give them an objective point at the end, then they're hooked. And the CrossFit space, especially mobility and strength, are talked about a lot. Stability, not so much. So can you dig more into stability? Like how do you assess if someone is unstable, whether globally or locally?

And then also, what do you do about it? Yeah, I mean, for me, it's what I see. I mean, I do see some CrossFitters. Shoulders and hips are the big ones because they have the most freedom of movement, right? So stability is the body's capability to resist force right and where strength is the body's ability to exert force so like whenever i see like the rotator cuff strengthening it's like yeah that's fine but that's a currency we're not loading the neurological stimulus needed to for that muscle

to actually adapt to what it wants right like it takes to unstable positions like a sponge that's what the rotator cuff's meant to do um i mean basic movement assessments i really like the kettlebell bottom under press because it's people like the idea that i don't need to have to advance the movement once i get the movement it's down and then when i increase the weight that's increasing the stimulus of instability so they see that objective progression where some of the banded stuff gets a little um maybe abstract for people to buy into then you need to progress from one banded movement to something that looks a little different i mean to me it's like i use this example a thousand times you're probably saying to me

saying this but imagine you have a dumb like most things we don't know what you're about to say but i'm sick of it we don't we don't talk we only talk in podcast form like we don't talk and just silence the whole way here. Silent car, right? I mean, I've said this a thousand times over, but I pose this question to a lot of my patients with shoulder pain, but I can extrapolate out the underlying principle. It's like if I give you a dynamometer of a grip strength measure

and I put it in your hand, right, and I have you kind of elbow at 90, shoulder at neutral, and I have you squeeze as hard as you can, and we take the reading and we do the same thing overhead. Factoring in, you know, fatigue, whatever. We can do it the next day if you want. I don't really care. I'm like, where do you think you're going to have a stronger reading?

And most people intuitively go here. And, you know, they think center of gravity or something. But anatomically, we think, okay, most muscles, the majority of muscles that are really going to dictate that grip are going to be from that medial epicondyle and down, intrinsic muscles the hand and so forth so why do you think here and here like you see them do it they close their eyes and they get up here and you can see they're not squeezing as hard so it's that it's a conversation between the brain and the body where it's like your body wants to be stable that's why it takes these exercises so well so if you think of

stability has this value of 100 it always has to be appeased or your body's going to find ways to make it feel like it's stable. Because unstable end ranges, that's where you're going to get hurt. So if we take this value of 100%, we break it up into two separate facets, right? It's structure and function. It's like right now, I mean, I could come at Jenta and hit him like that. I could break his collarbone or separate his AC joint. No way. No, I don't know. But structurally. The Bruce Lee one-inch punch. Yeah.

But structurally, I mean, his glenohumeral joint's in a very stable position, right? But if I wanted to dislocate his shoulder, I brought him here. Now we've traded that structure for function. But when we are under load, our body keeps like an inventory, an active trade-off of like, okay okay we're trading off structural stability for mobility and the shoulder is a good

example because i can't get my hip over or my foot over my head so as we come up we're trading off that structure for function but if we haven't trained the function of that dynamic stability that ability to resist force at these less and less structurally stable positions. And our body can't get that value of 100%. So that's what happens here. It's like the governor, you know, a golf cart. Have you ever jammed a water bottle in there and really opened her up? No. Really?

It's now on my list. Come on, dude. I would have thought, like, I wasn't even looking at you. I was like, this guy's definitely done that. I mean, I've flipped one before, but. You did it? Oh, dude. Well, okay, maybe you shouldn't do that because you might, like, really hurt yourself.

But it's like stability is the governor to strengthen our body, right? It really automates the nervous system and it controls the nervous system so we can limit the amount of damage we do to ourselves, right? Like, the structural stability you're loading here is labrum right and you're or just full dislocation right it takes very little to i mean that's why anterior dislocations are so common based off the structure of the shoulder when you're in this position and if you haven't trained this to be if you're listening he's in an overhead position okay oh see i'm just seeing this thing so i mean well it's funny how often he's been demoing the whole time go watch the video how often do we like air quote on the podcast and people like man they never see

anything we're probably just like we sound like we're being facetious but we're not but uh no if you train that stability in that end range then your body should allow for a free flow of strength through there because it's not worried about having to protect joints like um just a simple one is attach a band around the back of your fingers attach the band at shoulder height and then do a press overhead you'll see people as they trade off it starts to shake and they start to bias that internal rotation because the end goal is to get it back to that structural stability right so that's i mean you ask for a test that's a pretty detailed answer but that's more apparent let. Let me give you more straightforward one. Yeah, that's what he does.

I work in the CrossFit world, so I work with athletes of all different levels. There you go. Yeah, there we go. So it's pretty simple. An overhead squat can tell you a lot about someone's body. I'm sure you guys have seen those charts where it's like mobility here, stability here, and it starts at the ankle, and it switches all the way up to your shoulders know, your shoulders, your elbows, whatever.

It's pretty true. No matter who you are, what it is, those certain joints with larger ranges of motion, they're going to need more stability, right? Like Jordan said, that elbow joint, it's a hinge joint. There's not much range of motion there. Yeah, we can flex, extend, but there's no rotation, abduction, abduction. Those joints are going to need more stability. Yeah, they're going to need more structural stability. So that's the idea is that in an overhead squat, you can predict these things.

And you can see it. You can take a novice athlete and an advanced athlete, and you can tell a very real difference in the way that they move based on how these joints are functioning, right? If we can rotate through those hips, we have full range of motion. We could stabilize and keep those knees in line with their ankles. That's going to allow for a better upper body position, right? rotate through those hips. We have full range of motion. We could stabilize and keep those knees in line with our ankles. That's going to allow for a better upper body position, right?

If we have enough flexibility in that upper back, in our spine, then we're going to be able to get those shoulders overhead, get that rotation, stack them in good position. So my favorite movement is I'll start with just a bodyweight squat with a deconditioned athlete so I can see how they move. If they can control their hips, if they can't do it, they're probably not going to be able to control their upper body in an overhead squat.

So there's no real need to take it there yet. You can work those two separately. But someone that's more intermediate, that's a great way to test how your body is functioning. It's just by can you do an overhead squat properly and stay in a strong position. So that's my favorite test. I think your acuity for for assessing squats in the overhead is like it's way beyond mine like you know is it like powerlifters don't put much well that's the thing like i mean i can i'm not gonna try because this guy's in my face but

no like i think i mean because i upper blower i think for a lot of people at least and this is more to the powerlifting vein that i mean I mean, we want to talk functional fitness. We spoke off camera about like, uh, just the idea of functional fitness and how that's kind of a buzzword, but I mean, define your function, right? Well, I like to go back. Let's, let's go anthropological, right? What is our function? Squat, squat and deadlift is a function, like primal movement, but like one foot in front of the other fellas, like let's bring it right back to coming out of the sea sort of thing. i think assessing the gait cycle is is really huge and that's part of um one of the assessments that we do a lot is let's do a lunge right and like because the range of motion of the squat is a range of motion of an exercise not a range of

motion of a joint right so let's let's put a dab of pain on the top of that femur head inside and i want i want cysteine chapel inside of that acetabulum by the time that warm-up's done i want the foot on the ground because i want that because this is how the glute meat functions that jane fonda crap that's that's not going to fly anymore we're not we're not dealing with you know sunday living room athletes we're dealing with like real people that have to have a solid base of support so So, I mean, someone comes to me and they're applying strength to something that needs to be stable. It's like, no, no, no. Like this is how like it stops that lateral shift when you heel strike, right? Usain Bolt would be an awful 100-meter runner if every time his heel struck he was here.

Now all of a sudden he's running four less strides every or four more strides every race than four less because he's like a six-foot-eight gazelle. So put someone through a full range long stride lunge get him to come up hinge open up and just have all that movement come from the hip and then from there like if you can get that and this is just because i'm not as acutely aware of these patterns like he sees like just matrix numbers comes in front of his face like he just goes total rain man when he's like assessing something but it's like i don't have that acuity i'm afraid to move yeah oh yeah he's judging the hell out of you you know he just he leads he lined you up the second he's like a

movement tailor can you tell what i'm hurting right now just punch him in the face i don't know is it right low back you point at my left it's my right. So you're left low back? Yeah, left lower back. Is it really? Left hip, yeah. He's like, oh, shit. See what I'm saying, though? Oh, jeez.

We got this on camera, too. No, but I think it's a good assessment, again, for buy-in, where it's like, oh, no, I can do stability. We'll do the hip circle and all that. It's like, okay, let's see what you do. And it's just like, boom, valgus comes comes in hips like pull the lumbar spine forward they come up they got like that baby giraffe knee and then try and get them in a hinge and it's just it's it's just a mess and it's like then it's like okay if we can calibrate for that like if I'm

going to shoot you I could be 20 30 degrees off and still hit you if I wanted to pick the side view mirror off that escalade it's like now I need to really dial in my sights at that distant trajectory. But anything within that, you're going to be bullseye every time, right? So I think from an assessment standpoint of, I mean, anyone listening, it's like go through that. If you think you're worth your salt from a stability standpoint, long stride and athletic lunge. Get the knee over the toe.

Externally rotate that hip to stabilize that knee in that deep hip flex position, then see how you do. See if you can keep that knee locked the entire time and just like use a mirror if you have to. But ideally, you want to learn how to do the movement, not learn how to fix the movement, right? And I think that's a lot of things when you take people out from a squat rack and you take them out of that commercial gym and they don't have that nice big picture frame mirror in front of them and you got a squat out here they don't know right so i think being able to hardwire these motor patterns is the biggest thing that we try and carry over and that's why we are loading these movements directly after isolating these joint stability issues um yeah let's take a break real quick when we come back i want to talk about uh things other tests that people can

do that would show they may not have stability. Cool. Awesome. Thanks for watching the show. If you'd like to learn more about how to improve your snatch, clean, and jerk, we have a free 55-page e-book you can get at flightweightlifting.com. It has sample programming specifically for weightlifting, weightlifting how-to technique videos, and other tips on how to improve all of your lifts. Go to flightweightlifting.com, and you can download that e- for free download it now we're back with jordan and jordan uh what we're talking about stability stability yeah you guys have your model of mobility stability and then

and then strength uh we've covered a lot of that but i'd still love to hear more about uh stability and how you guys assess that and how you help people become stable i'm curious too is anyone who's listening or watching this something they can do and go oh fuck i'm unstable as fuck yeah all right you're talking about the bottoms up kettlebell press um i mean i definitely notice a discrepancy between my right and left when i do that right i'm just like boom boom boom left i'm like oh there's a problem here well i think i think jordan's are like jordan junta thing one and thing two yeah it's about three and a half four years of school of like jordan and both of us go yeah oh okay uh no i think one thing that like jordan really kind of breaks a paradigm on is the idea of like spinal rigidity um a lot of people you

know it's it's what is it december And we could easily go to the beach right now. So they go after the aesthetics and the way Jordan loads, because he gets a lot of our Olympic lifting athletes. A lot of people who are going to be deviating that combined center of gravity of the athlete and the load so far out of their base of support that the midline strength is like, I mean, that's kind of his wheelhouse when it comes to that. Me and Mike were just talking about, if you want to get a strong midline, you just grab a sandbag or Atlas stone or something.

You hold on to it. You walk with it. Or you put something heavy over your head. You walk. You lunge with it. That stuff will give you a strong core. But to answer your question, something people can do at home to see how unstable they are, I think one of the greatest things we found, we see it with people squat 600 pounds.

They can't stand on one leg. So, yeah, he's doing it already. He knows what I'm going to say. It's the single leg RDL, right? So can you shift your weight onto one leg and control that enough to bring yourself into full flexion extension, that trunk? Only in yoga class, man. I'm just like.

There you go. You know what? The tree pose is the one I can't do. Is that a real thing? The tree pose. The tree pose. I don't know where your hands go. I feel like this is a good divide.

You guys stay on your side. We originally thought it was going to be more like this, but now I think we're really good. You guys go kick each other in the head. We have a unified front on this side. That's where all the strength is. On average, we're much stronger than you guys. It's not skewed to one side.

No, no, no. I think the single leg RDL is a really good test. It's fantastic. What's another one we use? Oh, I think a principle that I think a lot of people should take away with. How did we forget about this? Using resistance to progress the stimulus of instability

right and so the kettlebell bottom under press is a great example but when you know jordan talked about the single leg rdl again i'm going to revert back to the powerlifting community but something that i get from the gen pop community as well is like okay do you load single leg we'll get some bodybuilders oh yeah single leg leg press like no no you're externalizing that need for stability to the apparatus. Oh yeah, no, I do like Bulgarian split squats. Oh, okay, good. Alright, so we've got the rear foot elevated on the box.

Yeah, I hold on to the Smith machine. It's like, oh no, again, externalizing. Or you'll get some people that get pretty close but now we're dumbbell each hand. Foot's back on the bench, dumbbell's in each hand. It's like, well, let's try and take, you're not going to be able to – Bulgarian split squat as much as you can back squat, right?

You're not going to be able to load this as a strength exercise because you're already self-limiting by the parameters of the exercise. So why not lean more into the unstable loading parameters and just put a dumbbell in one hand? Now we're – Well, now that's hard. Exactly. It won exactly but nearly as impressive to the girl on the other side of the gym exactly and you're probably going to fall on

your face so i think just grunt a little bit yeah as a general category or neon clothes yeah as a general category asymmetric loading almost implies that there's going to be a stability component yeah yeah and i think in almost every case that over there that really simplifies it no matter which hand i'm in? It does depending on the stimulus you're trying to adapt for. So this comes out of Liebenson's work, Stu McGill's work. We're going to go deep into those anatomy geeks. But if I'm loading the stance leg in a Bulgarian split squat,

I'm going to load that cross-pattern of this glute med and contralateral QL. This is going to be keeping me laterally stable through the pelvis. And the QL on the back is going to be keeping me lateral stable through the lumbar spine. So if we have a deficiency, like, you know, with patients in the office,

I'll look at wear patterns of the shoe. That'll dictate like an early heel strike and probably an instability on the other side. So we'll look at that and then we'll load that and we'll test it. It's like, all right, if put, you know,

right foot forward, do that. And that'll have like the scuffed heel of the shoe and that's usually stable and they think it's their right hip like oh you found something on my right shoe it's probably my right hip it's like no no you're when you're going through that gait cycle this hip is dropping out then as you go through that swing phase you're hitting early and that's why you're you know you're burning out the bottom of that shoe so then you load that left side dumbbell and left hand now this is the adaptation we're trying to make long term right this is the stability of that pattern so again with that

principle being said everything works nothing works every time so if i was you know instagram and all this and and youtube and podcasting you'd be on soundbites so you say this and then people only vehemently just load this one side forever and it's like no there's also like another pattern that you can go or you can switch loads halfway in between and so for me just using that resistance to progress the stimulus of instability but pairing it with an exercise selection that's going to push you further into that stimulus of instability so that's where kind of the progressions get to get fun because you can start playing around with you know the top switch hands or at the bottom switch hands or even that goes for anything lunging single leg rdls bulgarian split squats

any unilateral loaded movement upper lower so if you have a person that they really just can't handle being on one leg so doing single leg unsupported movements where you're truly on one leg like single leg rdls or pistols or trunk squats or whatever happens to be it's just way too hard do you progress them through something like step ups or like a reverse lunge where you're kind of temporarily just on one leg before the other leg becomes into contact and gives you more support. Jordan's looking at Jordan really funny.

Yeah, absolutely. Because I love those things. Something you can do both legs on the ground where you're still going to get that unilateral stability is a lateral lunge or a walking lunge, even a stationary lunge, all those things. Step-ups are fantastic for loading into those glutes and drilling that stability. As long as you're drilling it in strong movement patterns

and you're loading into that muscle, there's going to be benefit to it. Absolutely. I mean, I think understanding that scaling stimulus is more than resistance, right? And it's more than just weight. It's range of motion is big, right? Like my knee hurts when we get to a certain point it's like all right we just won't go to that certain point but now we have we have a gem we have a jewel we have an objective outcome measure of progress

something about like you know we talked earlier about oh you know you go see a physician that isn't a lifter and then all of a sudden it's like oh yeah just don't squat like oh okay all right i'm just gonna go crawl and hole and die then but you have someone that's like okay no you can squat but i i know that feeling by the way i went to uh to a guy one time because i had i had neck pain okay, all right, I'm just going to go crawl in a hole and die then. But you have someone that's like, okay, no, you can squat. I know that feeling, by the way. I went to a guy one time because I had neck pain, I had back pain, I had elbow pain, I had shoulder pain, and I got full-body x-rays, and I was like, oh, it's all messed up towards the end of my MMA career.

And I went to a guy, and he, like, asked me a few questions, like, you hurt? How's this feel? Bend over, touch your toes? And he looked at me, and, like, word for word, he said, you ever thought about just hanging it up? You want to just do it again and i thought he was gonna go i'm just joking no nothing and i was like oh like that's like that's where we go from here avoiding find a new doctor avoiding provocation isn't treatment and i think that's only going to be something that's exemplified by people who would rather die than not lift. Right? And that's...

And, you know, you had an unfortunate, a very unfortunate ankle injury earlier in the year. Spikeball related. Spikeball, many a death attributed to spikeball. You never get hurt like training or competing. It's spikeball. Everything I do is 110%.

He was laying out for it. But no, like... It's all right. My wife broke her wrist playing beer pong once. Oh, wow. Maybe y'all should meet. I don't know. Maybe they shouldn't. No, but I don't think he missed a lift.

I was on a small off-squat program less than a month out from my ankle injury. So, I mean, maybe not doing full crossfit not the olympic lifts the stuff that i like doing but i was doing something and the hardest thing for a crossfitter to do is is rest i can give you 30 exercises they'll do every single one on the list but they will not rest for one day so that's true yeah yeah i just think that ability to scale stimulus and understand that like stimulus is just it's the currency, right? It's how we make transactions from from a fair to fair. So I think understanding the input, we can then gauge for the output.

So it's like if it's oh, it hurts to do this. OK, then we can regress. We can regress. We can regress. And we're just moving further along that spectrum. If you're hurt, we're going to move more passive or move shorter ranges of motion and if you're on the up then we're going to make those progressions of time and attention or progressions of stability or progressions of sets or volume or intensity it's like there's a honestly i don't even think i can name all of the stimulus that are out there like someone could probably fill in the list for me it's just like trying to really hone in on individual ones and then almost undulate or wave like okay we're going to drop the intensity down but we're going to bring

the volume up or we're going to you know we're going to put you on one leg or i mean even these like if you're trying to get back into strengthening movements we'll program bilaterally loaded bulgarian split squats because the you know if they're post-op acl it's like okay they're going to need stability and that's going gonna be the rate limiting factor but they still want to you still need to have quad strength you still need to have hamstring strength to help retain that tibia so it's like all right we're gonna blow you out in a long stride that'll be one progression we'll start getting like a little narrower then we're gonna start to load the hamstring as you go further and then we're gonna add some resistance and then so it's just getting to play with it it's almost

like you get to orchestrate like for each individual their own little their own little like their own little song or you just put all the pieces together and when it all comes together and they can move again it's like yes do you have you might have already touched on this but do you know any methods where you accomplish improving mobility stability and strength kind of all in one go, all at the same time? Overhead squat. Yeah. I mean, that's not a bad answer. It's just regressing the movements is a big part of it,

taking them into their pieces. So maybe they aren't doing an overhead squat. Maybe it starts with an overhead walk, or we move into a front rack lunge, or something like that where you're taking these stability drills and you're starting to to load them in a way that is conducive to them building strength that's going to transfer over to that end goal of the overhead squat but you're doing it in pieces so it's not we're just going to overhead squat until we're good at

it because that's not going to work right that's like me saying i'm going to max out my back squat every day because it's going to make me strong. I'm going to do these little pieces of stability and move through as full a range of motion as I can until it gets better, better, better, better, and then eventually, hey, look, I can do an overhead squat. I think to that point, the idea, too, that we're not just a corrective exercise-based company. We're also a main focus of ours from a prevention standpoint is exercising correctly that we scale the stimulus to the point when you're back loading it's like okay let's have this now be like walking lunges yeah do it load it load it as a resistance exercise it's i mean it's good to keep your hips open but you can

also put size on your quads if that's your goal or what i see a lot with like bodybuilders struggle with like thoracic extension so do dumbbell pullovers get get your stress and so like mobility stability and strength there you go you know if you want to do pecs we're gonna we're gonna flare the elbows out if you want to load lats we're gonna externally rotate the shoulders and try and keep that neutral wrist or um oh that's a great movement that's not using the cross of space very much no and you know what i was on and you guys don't like to bench press either maybe that's the but i don't think you guys maybe not need it as much because i keep saying you guys like you don't take kindly no but you guys spend so much time overhead that uh it's going to be a lot more prevalent that

there's an issue that needs to be cleared up where it's like if this is the plane of motion that i'm working in in a horizontal press then you know at some point an injury could be apparent but i'm not loading this range of motion so it's like okay i like keeping overhead presses in from a corrective standpoint as a gatekeeper of like okay if i have having shoulder pain here it's common it's common to my bench press is this is going to be my limited range of motion moving forward something as simple as like dead hangs when you do your pull-ups like cueing someone in that like again reverting more to the bodybuilding community that trying to keep that constant tension in the lats it's like pain in the anterior shoulder in bodybuilding first place i go is like the teres minor right because when you're in that dead hang you're actually

internally rotated so you need to actually externally rotate first to load into the lats with your internal rotators so we're going to set here first elbows to the front of the room and that's the teres minor so that's a stability muscle first locking in that humerus into the scapula so our lats can do the work but what do bodybuilders do they stay in the lats the whole time so you have a really dominant internal rotator that's creating such an imbalance at that glenohumeral joint because they're not allowing that to unhinge, lock, go. Because that's your rate limiter. Because that's why people don't do it.

It's like, yeah, I could stay here for, I don't know, however many reps. But if I had a dead hang with my terries, obviously it isn't as strong as my lats. But I want to look cool at the gym and stringers and all that and catch a pump and eat Pop-Tarts post-workout. So that's what I'm going to do. I'm just going to live in the dream live in hey i'm in socal man let me live it um so i'm gonna say and that's the imbalance so outside of i mean this is more towards the realm of our personalized coaching it's having the foresight and the ability to actually then set forth a plan to okay we've done the corrective exercise we've gone through a

distillation process of what stimulus needs to be loaded for your condition based off your loading parameters, like the demands of your workout. Now, how do we stop this from happening again? And how do we use like the information we have of people that do what you do and the pitfalls that they then see? Cause it's like, you know, it's, it's not a mistake unless it happens again. Right. So if we can correct it, but now we've got to chart, like, okay,

where's the next one coming? Where's the next leak in the pipe kind of thing? So that's, I think, something that we really focus on from a personalized standpoint is when you're done, you're never done, right? Because you're never just going to stop. Unless the thing is done. Yeah. Yeah, once we go flatline and I'm six feet in the ground, then we're done.

Yeah. I think I'm doing more corrective exercises and having to shore up deficiencies and stuff like that more than ever. Yeah. And it's like some of what I'm doing is barbell work and stuff that looks like CrossFit or something like that, but more and more is corrective work. Now, is that stemming from, like, neglect in the past?

Yep. Okay. Yeah. All right. Yeah. So learn your lesson, kids. About three years in recovery here. corrective work now is that stemming from like neglect in the past yep okay yeah all right yeah so learn your lesson about three years in recovery here i think he gets a medallion right that's how it works he gets his three-year medallion i'm almost done i think i'm done it's a 12-step program i've heard yeah no i mean that's the thing it's like get it get on it early right because you don't yeah it's gonna be in that body for the rest of your life. So the more you take care of it now, the better it's going to be to you later.

I think if, yeah. And if you start throwing band-aids on things or avoiding things, like the band-aids one day are going to be stitches the next day. That's kind of your option. As far as like you have like a spectrum of stimulus passive, we move you to active. If we push the active too far, it's unstable. Then we move past this spectrum that we want to be in, into i mean i compare it almost to like the electromagnetic spectrum like we have our visible field and then we have on one side like x-rays and one side like or microwaves and other

side like ionizing gamma rays or whatever so it's like this is surgery over here this is where you need to go back go back to start from go don't collect 200 this of the game, and then you've got to work your way back. The idea is to stay dead center in that spectrum. So when you start deviating too far one way or even the other, because I think the idea that people think that more mobility, less injury prevention, it's like everything is an inverted bell curve. The likelihood of injury is going to end or is going to be just as high on that one side as on the other.

So you take someone who's like the yogi, super flexible contortionist, and he's going to have issues. You're going to take the power lifter, can't tie his shoes, he's going to have issues too. So it's like staying centered regardless of your discipline is going to give you the least amount of pain and probably the greatest amount of performance too, right? Yeah, our friend Jo Miller, she's deep into the yoga world

and has been doing that type of thing for a long time and is very, very mobile. And after a while of doing all that, she started to have some problems and she came into the CrossFit space. I'm oversimplifying all this, putting words in her mouth in a lot of ways. But she came into the CrossFit space, added some strength to her current background and ended up being a lot healthier because of it now now really promotes strength for everyone of course but especially for people that were in her situation where it was all range of motion all soft tissue work just trying to achieve positions but not being stable or strong in those positions and i don't know many people that have gone that far down that that path where they're just mobile but they're they didn't focus on on strength but it certainly happens to happen in her case well i mean something we see a lot is people think they can stretch their way out of everything.

I mean, that's a common thing. Someone goes, oh, this hurts. What's the stretch? I'm like, there's probably not a stretch for that. Or where do I put the lacrosse ball is another one. It's like, where do I put my – Can I put a band around something? Where's that jigsaw I had?

Honey, where's the jigsaw? I just got to put like a wine cork in it. I mean, it's the industry we're in. Everything has to be superlative, bigger, better, faster, stronger, right? And now and then you need the accountability of like, no, no, here's the plan. This is what we're going to do. Yeah, I realized I'd gone too far at one point when i was had a band wrapped around my neck okay you were even like

dark room wearing an eye mask things got weird really yeah the heels didn't give it away for Oh, no. Spit on me. Okay. All right. Wow. Oh, man. All right. Let's wrap it up. I think our podcast we would go with, on that note, the worst segue of all time. My safety word is. Yeah. Oh, jeez. Where can people find you guys?

You can find us at, we're on Instagram, pre underscore script. Our website is www.predashscript.com. I'm on Instagram, thefunctionalchiro. The underscore muscle underscore doc. I got to change that. No, yeah. No, it's good. RX Radio on iTunes and Spotify.

So it's RX apostrophe D radio. Yeah. I'll give you my home address if you'd like. You guys want to stop by. Anything else you want to mention before we go? Don't neglect the small stuff. It's mobility, stability, strength. That's a pretty straightforward model.

Move through full range of motion. Do it often. Do it with intent. Do it with intent. That's how you stay healthy. Yeah. I think the intent is everything. Hold on.

Yeah. Appreciate you guys having us on. Thanks for joining us today. Thanks for having us on. Make sure to go over to YouTube hit the subscribe button and go over to iTunes

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