Barbell Shrugged - More than Macros: The Metabolic Performance Protocol and Why You Need. Nutrition Coach w/ Aaron Straker, Anders Varner, and Doug Larson - Barbell Shrugged - #474

Episode Date: June 3, 2020

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Download yours today. Get in there. Come find me at Anders Varner, 30 Days of Bands. And we're going to get into the show. My boy Aaron Straker is killing it today. Talking about having a fitness or a nutrition coach, which I've never had. So I wanted to set this show up to be exactly how the relationship would be if I were to buy a or to have a fitness coach or a nutrition coach,

which is something I've never done, thought about often. And this is the process. Welcome to Barbellbell shrugged I'm Anders Varner Doug Larson my good friend Aaron Straker owner of Straker Nutrition Co and we are talking about the metabolic performance protocol today and dude you need to know this I have thought so many times in my life about hiring a nutrition coach and you're the only person that ever comes up in my life of the person that would work for because you're super jacked you got all the great abs you used to be on my crossfit regional team we did you've had the fastest recovery i've ever

seen of a human in my life popping your uh your achilles tendon in like june and then standing on the regionals floor with me nine months later it was smashing it it was the end of october when i popped it october 23rd i was i was like four feet away from you when that happened yeah it was very weird night yeah totally i remember a lady came in we didn't really know what no one really knew and then her foot was just hanging we like, I guess it's just there. But there was a lady that came in and I was running her through what CrossFit was. And we had, that was the year we qualified two teams, which means that we had at a minimum, like 16 people that were just straight up monsters in the gym.

And this poor lady walks in. She's like, so what do you guys do here? And it was like, pow. And it was like, that's not what we do. That is not what we do. That kid's different than you. We're going to treat you great. I promise. But come back tomorrow. Yeah. Dude, I have always wanted to hire a nutrition coach. And part of it is I don't know if my lifestyle actually lines up with having a coach in nutrition because shit's just chaotic sometimes. And I don't know how disciplined I would be able to do. And answering to a coach seems a little bit burdensome.

And what I want to do is just find out what it means to actually have a nutrition coach. This is a very real thing in my life. I've had fitness coaches. But at the highest level, kind of like what's what's your background? And how'd you get into nutrition? Yeah, so my background, really just like a high school athlete, and then went to college decided not to play sports, which was really, really nice. And then kind of got out of college, immediately got into the CrossFit scene in like 2009, which is exactly what I needed at the time. And then that was really the first kind of semblance of when I started paying attention to my nutrition, which was paleo, like back in 2010, 2011, like paleo was really big in the CrossFit scene. And then the deeper I got into really the CrossFit scene, like with you and, and, you know,

the PB gym and stuff, just intensity really scaled up. We went to training every single day. Sometimes we would train multiple times a day. And then my nutrition recovery with the paleo just really wasn't matching up. So I was really just running myself down. And then that Achilles injury that we, you know, briefly talked about was really what kickstarted it because I was devastated. I don't remember. I mean, I don't know if you remember, but I just straight up stopped showing up to the gym and I only lived one block away from the gym. Like I could literally throw a rock to the gym and you text me after like two months and you're like, Hey dude, do you want to like, you know, come in and hang out? We can put you on a rower with a skateboard or whatever. Cause I had like a cast on my leg and that's when it really like i i just was like you know i'm 20 i was 25 i think 26 maybe

and i was like why am i having these like you know and it wasn't like i completely tore it like split it like completely split it in two yeah and i had a lot of time on my hands i was working from home and i was like i just dug in I wanted to get back into the gym. And then it was an opportunity for me to start paying attention to my sleep, um, address some of the other lifestyle factors. And like the deeper I went down the rabbit hole of nutrition, it was like all these kind of, um, like these light bulbs kept going off. Like, Oh my God, I'm doing all these things wrong. What do you mean? Carbs aren't the devil. Uh, like all these things that I just had these, you know, misnomers about these really really common myths and the deeper i went like the more

i learned the more i everything came back once i came back to the gym i remember uh i stopped going to physical therapy after like three months and just went back to you know doing like a modified form of crossfit and basically taking that over. And, you know, from, I got my boot off the first week of January. And then by like second week of May, you know, we were on the regionals floor from the four of Achilles rupture. Yeah. So that was like when, you know, when I really started prioritizing my nutrition, what I was putting in my body and how I was recovering, like how far and how large and impactful it can really be in your life. And then ever since then, it's just the more people I talked to with friends and you know, I started, you know, my body composition changed a lot, even as training scaled back after

that. Um, just so much more, I learned about it and I started helping friends and some family members with it. And then I decided it was something that I really wanted to go into. So I got my nutrition license, I got a couple other certifications. And then it became the time that I was like, you know what, I'm been looking for something else I want to do with my life, the office, and the programming world was, you know, always nice to me. But the thought of spending the rest of my life, you know, writing code, it just isn't what I wanted. You know, I wanted something that I felt was really true to the things that I care about in life, you know, writing code, it just isn't what I wanted. You know, I wanted something that I felt was really true to the things that I care about in life, the things that I think are most important. And nutrition has become that and it's been incredibly rewarding so far. There hasn't been a day in my life that I thought that I didn't make the right decision. I feel, you know,

you know, everything's been really good about it so far. Dude, you've been traveling the world. Yeah, I was gonna say you spent a lot of time in Bali recently, right? All last summer, we were in Bali from June until mid-September. Was that kind of the original plan? Like, I'm going to do this online only thing, and then I can travel the world? So the plan was to set it up from online only to begin with. And part of that was because I don't like labeling myself, but I have a lot of introverted tendencies, right?

So it's much easier for me to have these sorts of conversations and stuff over Zoom or do things remotely than in person. And I didn't want to be location dependent. And so that was kind of some of the lifestyle design from the start. And then my time, I had been ready to leave San Diego for a little bit. I just wanted to do some more exploring. And my girlfriend and I, who runs a nutrition business of her own as well, we're like, well, it'd be kind of cool to live outside the country for a little bit. And we're like, yeah, and then we can come back and figure out where we want to settle down. So we originally planned like five or six months. We'll go travel a couple of places, then we'll like come back. And then we did that and we're like this is awesome you know we can we plan we can run our businesses completely you

know the same same from anywhere and then it's been so much fun so we've been you know as i like to call gypsies for about a year and a half now yeah we just came back to the u.s oh cool where did you settle uh so we are in virginia right now uh where my girlfriend grew up and we just like because everything with that's been going on we we we just wanted somewhere that's like simple that we could just kind of show up we were in an airbnb for in in medellín colombia for the previous five months and with like the restrictions and stuff we didn't want to just come back to sit in an Airbnb, you know, in an apartment somewhere. So here we at least know there's space. It's a small town. So the regulations are a little bit like looser.

So that's, that's where I'm in for the time being. Right on. So many people are trying to go online right now. Cause it's just, everyone just basically has to, in some respects, at least the fitness industry, nobody's going to gyms, gym owners are struggling, et cetera. You're, you went to Bali, you've been traveling the world. On its face, you think it doesn't really matter where I am. I can be in San Diego or Bali. It's the same thing. It's all online. But in reality, logistically, practically, was that actually true in your case? Or did you actually find challenges being online and being in another country that you didn't expect? So we didn't just like pick random countries and go, we kind of plan things out. And something that

was important with how we plan things out were hours. So the majority of our clients are all US based. And then with the weekly calls we have, I wanted to make sure that it was reasonable. So with Bali, and then prior to bali we were in vietnam they were 12 and 12 and 11 hours ahead based on when daylight savings time would hit so with that you know the calls are you know monday evenings for me it would be tuesday morning so things like that would be really really straightforward so it wasn't like we're just randomly picking places based on because we know we have businesses to run and that's that's the most important thing that we're prioritizing and then with columbia we were just in that's on east coast time so with certain places you just kind of have to plan it a little bit and uh you know

look and make sure internet connections are stable and you can get really reliable uh type spots but a lot of the the world is really catching up fast so like places like, you know, Bali had really double over failover safe co-working spots and stuff with really, really quality internet. The quality of the internet in Vietnam was honestly better than it is here in America. So that was like really eye-opening. But yeah, there's definitely a little,

a solid amount of planning. We're not just throwing a dart on the board and showing up. Dude, when you're taking on new clients and you're not actually interacting with them face to face, what is a little bit of the onboarding process once somebody goes through the application process? Even before that, getting into the application process, what is the screen or assessments that you're running with people to get a really high level understanding of who this person is before we start actually even diving into the nutrition piece? So I have applications,

obviously, to work with me. And then I want to know a lot of the basic things around you, like your basic anthropometric data, what your previous dieting history is, any kind of medical conditions, illnesses, prescriptions, types of things. And then what your activity level looks like. For me personally, I'm only working with people who are already training because I really like to focus on getting results. And for me personally, the people who are not already in the gym, it's just harder for me, I would say, to create that consistent success because that large part is already missing. So I'm already just working with people that are already training and then seeing what

your goals are too. And then seeing what you're meeting, kind of where your knowledge gap is. So is this something that we need to focus on purely just knowledge? Are you really X's and O's type person like me? And then kind of go from there. So for me, I have, you know, the two different, um, the two different services of the metabolic performance protocol, which is really geared towards a specific person. Someone who's already in the gym already has some decent understanding

around nutrition, but really hasn't been able to put all the pieces together. So that I'm trying to take, you know, that person from like pretty good to like really good or great with specific periodized nutrition. Then my one-on-one coaching is really for the people who aren't going to fit that. Maybe you need a little bit more knowledge and support. You have more weight to lose. So maybe it's like, you know, more than 25 at as an individual and matching what you're currently, what you currently understand to what's going to be most realistic for you to make the progress you want. Yeah. I want to get shredded like you, but two days ago, I got a note while I was getting ready to hop on our team calls in which my mom slash grandma

was downstairs throwing a tea party with my two-year-old and they made a batch of brownies at 9 a.m yeah and my life does not allow me to be what am i gonna do not go to the tea party no way i gotta go to the tea party and what's the point of eating one brownie if you can't have two like life is chaos i already failed the assessment no it's so one one of the biggest things that i teach and practice with everyone is flexible dieting right and what i mean by that is not if it fits your macros flexibility uh that is objective so objective eating and objective nutrition is like my mo with everything meaning that like when your mom's in town and your daughter wants to cook or sorry a brownie you the brownie. And then what you do is you remove some of those

other carbohydrates and fats from your later meals. So you pull, you know, 10, 10 grams of fat from lunch and dinner. And then, you know, however many corresponding carbohydrates to fit that into your progress or fit that into your day without, you know, derailing yourself or thinking that you can't make progress because you had a brownie. Um, at any point, did you have kind of like a fixed mindset around the body and weight and where you thought you were just stuck at forever? Um, like dude, when you were like two, what'd you get up to? Like 220? Like you were thick. 228 was the heaviest. Whoa. Yeah.

That's thick. Yeah. Like real thick. Yeah. What'd you snatch back in the day? 252. Yeah! Dog, I'm telling you, we used to get kids jacked.

We used to get them jacked. I firmly believe that I will beat that number whenever my life settles down and I have access to a long-term training program. I think I can believe that I will beat that number whenever my life settles down and I have access to a long-term training program. I think I can do that. I'm sitting on a platform ready for you right now. We're only like two hours away from each other. Yeah. Did you really – I mean, I'm curious.

Like Brian actually sent me a picture of him and I at a hot tub on spring break in 2014 yesterday. And I looked at it and I was like, man, if you put my body today next to the body from 15 years ago, it's the same everything except I just look 10 pounds thicker. And I mean, I look a lot stronger, but it's like, you kind of like how I always wonder where the genetic ceiling is and stuff like this. So that is one of my big personal goals right now. So I really want to push that genetic ceiling. So for me, I've always kind of like kind of treated myself like a science experiment and I still kind of do. And even in my adult life, my weight has fluctuated wildly, not because of like impulse or any kind of like disordered eating, but just by like goals. So when I first got into

CrossFit, I had this notion that like, okay, I'm going to drop all this, you know, football weight from when I played football in high school. I don't need it anymore. And that was like the super OG early days of CrossFit. We're like, we weren't using that much barbell stuff. It was a lot of like sandbags, you know, running around the block type stuff. And I got down to 178 at five foot 11. So I was like skinny you needed crossfit pb in your life that was literally the year before i moved to crossfit pb and then i showed up and all the workouts were like heavy and i was like i suck at crossfit um and then you know at the at the height i think in crossfit like the height of my weight was around like the 218, 219, like when we were at regionals.

That was the highest I was. Because I just had this, I was like, well, we're training, you know, five, six days a week for this regionals prep. I was just eating so much. And I didn't really realize it. Like my weight was just pumping. And then after CrossFit, I got into like more powerlifting type stuff after my stint in Olympic weightlifting. And when I tore my patella. And then that's when I got up to like almost 230. into like more power lifting type stuff after my stint in olympic weightlifting and when i um tore my patella and then that's when i got up to like almost 230 and then it's really just been like

different different experiments and you know trying different uh nutritional modalities and and you know changing my eating structures to see what you know how i can recover what where i can build muscle and and it's always just a big experiment for me which i think is i, I love it because I literally feel like it's one big experiment. What can I learn from, you know, uh, testing on myself? Where are you sitting right now? And like, how long did it take before you really started to get dialed in? I mean, you're, you're super lean right now. It's still, I'm like right now I'm between like one3 to like 197. That's lean. It's lean. Yeah.

Yeah. When people are coming to you and I would imagine by the time people hire nutrition coaches or they're like really reaching out for help, they've kind of gone through the process on their own of trying, failing, trying, failing. And then they just go, I just need somebody. Yeah. No one reaches out because everything's going great and they're like making progress hand over face and they feel confident. I'm so shredded right now. I need help. I need someone to pat me on the back. I'll pay them to do it. Yeah. Like what are some of the larger, you know, mental barriers before people even get into the kitchen to hang out? I imagine the mental

side of things, it's just really hard to overcome with people. I think so. Especially being a male. I think the ego has a little bit too, right? There's, there's like some level of, of that, of, of accepting like, Hey, I need the help or I want the help. And then two is one, there's always the, and I, and this is something I dealt with too, is not like the adversity to wanting to lose weight, to realizing that like you're, in order to get lean, like you're going to have to shed some of the tissue on your body, fat tissue mostly, but that's another like kind of the mental adversity there is like seeing the scale decrease and thinking that that means your strength's inherently going to decrease or you're not going to be as, you know, muscular. But what

happens is like when you get leaner, you it's, it's a, it's a, it's like a mindset trick because as you get leaner, you look bigger. Yeah. Um, but it's really the complete opposite. You're smaller by, by, by, by definition, where I've known quite a few powerlifters that have gone from powerlifting into bodybuilding and people always come up to them once they're bodybuilders and go, dang, dude, you look strong. And they're like, no, I'm the weakest I've ever been.

I'm actually 75 pounds lighter than I was last year and my bench went down to 200 pounds. But you look better and so you look stronger and people think you have more muscle, but in their case, they probably did not if they've lost that much weight. Yeah, if they're losing 75 pounds. You don't have to get that much weaker by losing weight. But if you're a powerlifter and you move into bodybuilding, you probably will.

Yeah. Yeah. When you're getting into your coaching, is the majority of the goals for people to – is it really about just getting lean, getting shredded? Or do you have a lot of people come to you saying, look, I want to put on 10 pounds and get giant. I do. I have both. So the majority is people that are saying, Hey, I just, I want, I want to look better. I want to look like I lift. Right. And for what that usually means is like, Hey, I'm going to, we're going to drop some body fat and, you know, um, shift some, or potentially for certain people too, we're going

to drop some body fat and then we're going to feed up to put some muscle back on once you're already leaner, which is you're going to make, um, your partitioning ratio is just so much better when you're starting from a leaner perspective or a leaner point. Um, but I also get people who are like, Hey, I just, I struggle to put on weight, you know, and I just want to learn how to like eat and build muscle. And with a lot of that is like people who have some carbohydrate fear really, uh, about getting fat and just have this, you know, kind of, um, misconception that you're going to put on, you know, 20 pounds of muscle and like not an ounce of fat. And it's, you know, as, as a natural person,

uh, it just doesn't, it doesn't work that way. Yeah. I, as far as nutrient partitioning goes, you just mentioned being leaner affects partitioning. Can you dig into that a little bit and explain that for people that aren't familiar with that concept? Yeah. So the, the, the concept of the P ratio or partitioning ratio, meaning that for, uh, let's say, um, you know, every pound of weight you gain, uh, what percentage of that weight is going to be muscle or lean tissue gain versus fat gain. And the leaner you start, lower body fat to a point, the better off that partitioning ratio is going to be. So really starting around the like 9% to 10% body fat range is going to be where you're going to make those highest, you're going to get the most out of that partitioning ratio because at that percentage of body fat,

your testosterone is going to be really, really in a mechanically advantageous position. Leaner than that, you know, like bodybuilding type stage look, your hormones aren't going to be great from a natural position just because of the duration of dieting and stuff that took you to get there. So you will put a little bit of fat on so you get into that range and then pass the like 15 to 17% body fat range, depending on who you talk to. It doesn't really make that much sense to continue into a muscle building effort or a surplus um specifically speaking for partitioning ratio because what the research what the research uh shows us is after that it really kind of drops off to where like

for every you know pound of muscle you're putting on you're putting on like you know five plus more of fat and then it's you're just gonna have to diet that off later so you're better off you know running through like a little mini cut protocol or dropping back into that, you know, nine to like 15, 17% ratio before and like resensitizing to carbohydrate to the surplus and then working back up. How do you- If you're 20% body fat

and you want to put on 10 pounds of muscle and lose 20 pounds of fat, you're recommending, because of everything you just said, losing the body fat first and then try to pack on the muscle afterward? 100%, Yeah. Because if you're at 20% body fat, the amount of fat you're going to put on to muscle is incredibly marginal past that percentage of body fat. Yeah. When you're, when you're doing like the, the recomp and you're inside that new, call it 9 or 10 to 15, 17, in that range,

what is a little bit of the protocol to get people? My mom almost just ate shit hardcore right there, like right there. She just slipped so hard, almost freaking popped a hamstring. It would have been terrible. The idea of body recomp and people that are inside that kind of target range, call it on the low end nine or on the high end 17, what is a little bit of the game plan?

Because I bet the people that are sitting at 17 look at the people at nine and they may be on paper just as healthy or in the right range for their body type, but they probably look in the mirror and they go, I'd like to be lean like that nine person over there. Yeah. So my opinion on recomp is it's not really worth doing it because of how slow it is. So, and by, by, by recomp, I mean like eating roughly at maintenance calories and then slowly, you know, increasing the, you know, lean muscle tissue you have and slowly decreasing the body fat where you're kind of just like, you know, operating in the middle and slowly making, you know, optimizing your body composition.

It's incredibly slow and it's almost to the point where it's hard to objectively measure whether you're accurately doing it or not. So looking at, you know, let's say two months of data, you know, you might be up the slightest bit and then down the slightest bit, but it's hard to notice that difference in your pictures, especially when you're doing it yourself. And then it's harder even psychologically to commit to that duration and knowing that your progress is so slow. So if you are in the interest of recomp, I'm almost always going to say diet the excess body fat off first because dieting is faster. Everyone thinks that dieting is like the hardest thing. Building lean muscle tissue is orders of magnitude more hard than dieting because you can diet, say, hey, I'm going to hit this hard diet. I'm going to be super adherent for eight weeks. And you can diet, say, Hey, I'm going to hit this hard diet. I'm going

to be super adherent for eight weeks. And you can make a lot of progress. You can like make significant progress in eight weeks, but in eight weeks of like a gain phase, you're like, Hey, congratulations. You built like an extra pound and a half of muscle. Yeah. It's really, really hard. And you're dying every day under the bar. Yeah. And you're, and you're, and you're feeding in a surplus. And it gets hard to eat that much food after a while unless you're that 15, 16-year-old kid who's hitting puberty and never lifted before. To go back to those days, it's just like you're making products hand over fist. Yeah, the best.

If you're busy as well, you spend your whole day cooking and eating. Then you wait an hour to get something done, and you've got to go do it all over again. It just consumes your whole existence. It consumes you. And the hardest thing is when you miss. If you miss a meal or something, and you're behind a meal, you're like, I'm going to come up 700, 800 calories short today. And that day is kind of a wash at that point because you didn't. It's like that day was, yeah, it's a wash because you missed that excess it's going to continue feeding that when we interviewed

chris duffin and he was talking about squatting a thousand one pounds for a triple and he was just like there isn't enough i was eating like whole chocolate cakes at night because there's it's and he's like if i didn't do it now i'm so far behind for the rest of the week on total calories that it's just too much pressure. It wouldn't be a barbell shrug without us thanking our friends over at Organifi. Organifi.com forward slash shrugged. That's the thing you need to know to get all of your greens, reds, and gold juices. We love the juices. You love the juices. They love us because you love them. It's a big triangle of love you see how that works um the green juice in the morning the red juice in the afternoon before

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to save up to 40% off select packages. Let's get back to the show. This is brutal. At that level, the amount of central fatigue you get from that stress on you, you need all those calories

just for the increased recovery capacity. Insane. Um, well, if, if I guess one of the, the things that pops in my brain thinking about kind of those set points or not even set points, but like the people that are in the 14 to 17 range that want to lean out. Is that a trickier process than say somebody that's at 20% body fat and has a lot to lose? Like on the genetic side of things, you may just be a 15% kind of person. Granted, you can get there, but I would love to hear just, you know, those people that sit at the higher end and what that means to them. Yeah. The, the people that sit at the higher end, I mean, there is obviously some role of, of genetics that play into it, but I think that gets tossed around as a, I don't want to call it an excuse, but yeah, it's people say like, oh, well I can't have that. It's genetics, but largely

it's, it's environment. So the example I always like to use, and this has been something that I kind of picked up from traveling. So if like, if we took you today, right, what you do with work, where you live, and I dropped you in Vietnam in a village, and you are now, you don't have access to the gas station or all these things, and you have a physical job, I guarantee your settling point will be different. 100% guarantee it. Because your entire environment changes, right? So you don't have those, you know, quick calories that we're picking up from processed foods. You're eating basically rice, vegetables, and like some meat when you come across it. Your energy expenditure through the day is going to go up.

Like your circadian rhythm is going to fall back into that natural path because there isn't you know electricity everywhere and you're getting up when the sun comes up so your stress is going to go down significantly so there's all these kind of more you know mechanisms at play than just like oh it's my genetics um but for those people to get back to your original question yeah if you're trying to go from 20 body fat to like 17%. Yeah. You can like make some changes, you know, uh, pay attention a little bit, but then going from like that 17 to 14, like, like I say that there's levels to it, right. And every kind of level, every like, you know, three or 4% body fat you drop down, what it requires of you is more from a, from a, from a weekly kind of consistency from a,

from a time it takes daily and from kind of the mental capacity of, you know, staying there? Yeah. That was actually the hard, I mean, I got down, I usually walk around like 195 to 197, and I'm probably in like the 15% body fat range. And then last year, I got down to like 189, 190 on a very consistent basis. But dude, as soon as like three months of living at that weight happened, I was just like I can't mentally keep going at this. Like I just want to – it's really challenging, the longevity of staying that lean. Depending on your approach, I would say. Look at that.

That's the answer we wanted. So the one thing- Prove me wrong. Yeah. Tell me I'm soft. No, it has nothing to do with being hard or soft. It has to do with the approach and the knowledge around it. So what happens when a lot of people kind of diet down or they find something that works is they just hold onto it and say, oh, this works. I've cut my calories to X. I'm just going to do this forever. But eventually you reach that point of kind of diminishing returns where your body gets thrifty. It expends less calories through our autonomous processes. And what happens is you reach some varying degree of metabolic adaptation,

meaning your body has adapted to the kind of controlled starvation you're giving it through your through your fat loss and then it adapts to kind of meet you so what you're doing which was producing results kind of you know bottoms out and then you stay here and then what a lot of people do is they just like they're like okay this worked i'm going to hold on to it but your body and some of the different things are down regulated what people don't do and what the biggest part of the metabolic performance protocol what we do is we always finish with a reverse do and what the biggest part of the metabolic performance protocol, what we do is we always finish with a reverse diet. And what that is, is I'm going to reverse you back up to maintenance calories at your new leaner body fat percentage and leaner body weight.

So what we do is we slowly, you know, methodically increase calories over time so that one, we're, so as we increase those autonomous body processes, start, you know, kind of turning the wheels faster and consuming more of that energy, but we don't ever feed in excess to put extra fat back on. So you can maintain that kind of leanness and low body fat that you maintain from your dieting effort. But now we're eating, you know, 10, 20, you know, whatever X percentage of calories higher. Yeah. How hard, maybe not even how hard, but getting people to an actual mate, what is the process of finding those maintenance calories? Cause for me, some days

I'm like stuck at a computer for 10 hours and then I'm like, I just go train and then I go back to the computer and it's not a real heavy day or some days that are awesome. I get to go like run around. I go to the park. I'm kicking the soccer ball. I get to train twice. Little workouts, not like the old days. Like some days are awesome, filled with fitness.

Some days sitting on my ass doing nothing except typing all day. It's hard for me to figure out in a way where on the spectrum I would be. Yeah. So what I recommend everyone do is not try and game your maintenance calories based on your activities for the day. You're going to have a maintenance calories based on where your weekly kind of averages layout. And you can find like, there's all sorts of like calculators and stuff,

but the two like big ones are going to be like your catch McArdle formula formula and i can't think of the other one off the top of my head but one if you know your approximate body fat percentage um it's going to give you like a baseline for bmr and then there's like these kind of activity multiplier factors um and that's going to get you within like 20 to 10 percent right which is enough place to start which is enough of a start a ballpark to start recording data from and then what you want to do is you just take that data and you're saying 20 to 10%, right? Which is enough place to start, which is enough of a start, a ballpark to start recording data from. And then what you want to do is you just take that data and you're saying, okay, this is X calories. I'm going to follow this for 10 to 14 days and record data. I'm going to see how my weight trends over these 14 days. So if your weight continuously trends downward,

even pretty minor, cause it's not like you're going to be like dropping pounds, you know, over 10 to 14 days, um, you know, that you're a little bit under maintenance calories. If your weight, you know, trends up for 10 to 14 days over that, you know, you aimed a little bit high. And then at the end of that, you know, 10 to 14 day period, if your average is right where you're back and you were honest and true, you know, with, you know, objectively measuring your intake and being accurate, you know, you're right about maintenance calories there. And then from those, like, we're all going to have those fluctuations in our days. So let's say, um, like, like last week, I had a day where I went, uh, mountain bike riding and it buried me. Um, I rode with these

couple of guys who were like, you know, ride weekly and they've been doing it a long time. And it was literally like, I was back in the the crossfit days like my lungs felt bruised when i got home yeah so i knew like a day like that i'm like you know what i'm gonna come home and i'm gonna have like double the amount of dinner because i just literally tried as hard as i possibly could for two hours straight so like with those types of days like you know you know, you can, there's some kind of auto-regulation where, you know, like, okay, I really busted ass today. I'm going to feed myself a little bit more because, you know, what I normally would feed is going to leave me hungry going to bed. And if you're not in a fat loss phase, you know, deep in a fat loss phase,

there's no reason to go to bed hungry. Yeah. When anytime somebody starts hopping on your one-ton challenge nutrition protocol that you wrote for everybody, they always look at the calories and they look at the carbs and they go, how am I supposed to eat all that? It's almost like the numbers are, they're unbelievable in a way. Like not that they're so high and crazy, like, oh, it's unbelievable. But they literally don't believe that their body is supposed to consume that much food. What is the process to like uncovering maintenance calories and then combining it with exercise and the amount that people can move throughout the day? How do we start to realize how much your body actually needs to to stabilize itself yeah so with what i find with a lot of people is a lot of people will consistently under consume calories and then

what happens is on like the weekends or something like that they have like they're like kind of blowout days whether it's inadvertent or intentional but what happens when you like if kind of what i got what i was going back to when i talked about the dieting if you're consistently under eating your body is in a state of like under recovery and some of you some of the autonomous you know process of your body are operating at let's say like 80 of their normal capacity of calorie consumption so when you kind of consistently feed yourself at that level your body just uses more because you're giving it more and then you expend it through um a process called um neat non-exercise activity

thermogenesis where you're just like i'm speaking with my hands i'm taking a walk i'm using the stairs like you just have more natural energy and at that it's your body just starts consuming it and it's depending on the person some people people notice it immediately. Like, oh my God, I'm eating so much more. I'm sleeping better. You know, I'm not dead in the middle afternoon. I'm not, you know, feel like I'm dying when I leave my CrossFit class or something like that, just because they've been in that state of under recovery for so long. And when you start feeding them and some of those kinds of processes start slowly reversing, they can really notice it. But a lot of people, they just, they're scared, right? They think, oh, I'm going to eat carbs. I'm going to get fat because that's been, you know, they picked up that preconditioning from, you know, who knows where. And it's just

kind of like this, this really large myth that, you know, carbohydrates are bad. And I guess, you know, depending on the type too, but when I'm talking about like your, your rice is sweet potatoes, beans, um, whole grains, oats, you know, some, some quality bread options and then things like that. So it's not like I'm talking about like, Hey, we're going to feed you, you know, ring pops and stuff and see what happens. Delicious. Yeah. You know, earlier you said something about, uh, you, you thought carbs were bad and then your performance was going down back when you're like in the paleo phase. I feel like the whole world of nutrition is all about phases and trends and fads etc it's like every five years there's the new thing and it's it's kind of all in one

way or another just the same cycle over and over and over with just different methods you know we had the paleo phase we had before that there was like the zone phase in the crossfit space there was like the carbs are bad phase which people have kind of graduated out of macros is huge. Now flexible dieting, like you've been talking about, like what is emerging right now as far as trends or fads that, you know, that are, that are good and or not good. Like what, what are your thoughts on any, any emerging trends? What's what's happened in the world right now? Yeah. So I'll kind of give you what, what I kind of see from, from my perspective of observing the kind of the space and then what I truly believe is, is most important. So plant-based

is obviously picking up with some different things. And here's, here's my objective take on it or not an objective, my subjective take on it. If we're talking to like your standard American and they're like, Hey, I'm going to go plant-based. Like, what do you think about that? I'm like, that is awesome. If we can get you off of a standard or if we can, if you are going to get yourself off of a standard American diet and move to going like vegan or plant-based by all means, please do it. Is it the best for everyone? Is it some like magic, you know, kind of bullet that's going to fix everything? No. But when you're coming from something that's so bad and you're moving to that, great. I'm all for it. As far as like other kinds of diets that are coming around, like keto

is really, really popular right now for good reason. You know, it can be incredibly effective when you use it right. Do I think a lot of people use it right? No. People say like, oh, I'm keto, you know, but I cheat on the weekends. And I'm like, well, you just, then you're not keto. You're just low carb for four days and then you kick yourself out of ketosis and then it takes three days to put yourself back in ketosis and then you kick yourself out again. Um, so there's that, like the, the kind of, you're just climbing social ladders by talking about something. Well, a lot of people like the, so what I, what I see is people really like the, like the belonging to something. Oh, I'm this, right?

Because I get that label. I get that belonging. For some reason myself, like I like the anti of that. I don't want anyone to, I never want to be able to be labeled because I just want to be free of that. Yeah. So those are the kind of fads, I guess, that are really big right now that I see a lot of. But what I really like and what I always kind of, I don't want to say preach, but want everyone to learn about is objective eating and objective nutrition. And that means that it doesn't matter, let's say you want to lose fat. It doesn't matter if you go keto. It doesn't matter if you go paleo or plant-based. Objectively, you need to create a calorie deficit.

It makes the most sense to create that calorie deficit from either carbohydrate or largely from your dietary fat intake for body composition purposes. If you are after purely weight loss and you don't care about body composition, sure, you could diet protein down. You're probably going to have a harder time. You're not going to look as good, but it is something that you could in practice do. Whether you go through each one, you still need to adhere to that calorie deficit, or you're not going to get that fat loss. You need to pay attention to where your food sources are coming from because you can stretch 1,800 calories multiple different ways. You can go to McDonald's and eat one meal and there's your 1,800 calories.

You can eat pure lean protein sources and have a monstrous amount of vegetables each day to the point where you're probably really full and don't want anymore and still hit that 1,800 calories. Obviously, the more nutrient-dense route you go, the more success you're gonna have, the easier it's going to be able to adhere to because one, you're gonna be satiated You're going to have a good volume of food and

the mineral and nutrient density of your diet is going to remain high while you're at it. Um, I want to talk a little bit more specifically about the metabolic performance protocol that you have. Um, you have a big launch coming up and what does that program look like for people and how, how you structure it once people kind of get through the onboarding process? Um, and just how, how do you roll the program out with people? Yep. So I basically set it up because there is four kind of, um, periodization phases of nutrition, similar to how you would like period, periodize like a strength or hypertrophy um uh training training box and what happens is a lot of people come from kind of like oh they're not paying any attention to their

to their diet or they're kind of all over the place and then they go right to dieting and what happens with that is you're going from like one form of a stressor to another and they might see limited success or it might be really, really hard. But what I found with when you kind of periodize your nutrition, you can really set things and you can create leverage by putting things in the correct sequence to make things easier for yourself. So there's four periodization phases in the metabolic performance protocol. And the first one is maintenance. So in that first maintenance phase, we're really taking you wherever your diet is all over the place. You might not have much consistency and I'm first making sure you're

eating enough and we're going to drastically increase the nutrient density of your diet to make sure that you don't have any magnesium deficiencies or B vitamin deficiencies or something like that that's going to impact your health or make things harder. And then from there, we're going to do a small small six week caloric surplus phase. And really what I'm trying to do there is create leverage. And we're also going to be like, you know, reversing some of that metabolic adaptation that's possibly taking place

and really getting you, removing any fears about feeding up and what happens when you kind of feed up. And you can see that like, hey, I'm pushing calories, I'm pushing carbohydrates, I'm having higher fat, but like my weight's not skyrocketing. And when we're looking at it daily, you can see that like I'm getting these like kind of slow, consistent increases of good weight that I'm looking for. But what we're really doing there is creating leverage. So if like, say, for example, let's say that the goal is like we're jumping into, let's say we're jumping off

like a like a pool um a pool diving board into a water and we want to hit the water as fast as possible well we can jump off the like three foot um diving board or we can jump off the like 20 foot diving board and by jumping off the 20 foot diving board we build so much more momentum and speed by the time we hit the water because there's a there's a there's a basement for how low your calories can really go when dieting before dieting kind of takes over your life and it's not worth it anymore but by kind of reversing and pushing those calories up we can create a longer runway for when we when we do remove those calories and we have more leverage so by starting a diet at 3 000 calories you know and you can down to, let's say like 1800 on the low end, that's going to give you much more room and pull them by starting, you know, at 2200.

And then you can only pull 400 calories before you're at your basement. So we go through that process, get lean, drop body fat, you know, really learn how to diet safely, sustainably, and without, you know, taking over your life. And then we go through that reverse periodization that we talked about briefly earlier. We're now we're leaner. We're at a low body fat percentage. We want to reestablish maintenance so that, you know, we've reversed some of that metabolic adaptation or any of those kinds of negative physiological and psychological aspects of dieting that may have set in, but now we're eating, you know, back at maintenance and you can maintain the amount of weight loss and

fat loss that you, that we got through it. Yeah. From your last group, a lot of the before and after pictures are, they're really crazy. So it's a four month long program. 22 weeks. So just about five months, depending on, you know, what month we start on. How long does each phase last? So the fat loss phase, which is the main one is 10 weeks. Uh, if we need the full 10 weeks, some people don't even need it, so we'll spend more time on the reverse or the surplus. The initial maintenance phase is two weeks, which is really just getting up to speed and you getting the wheels going and getting into tracking and making sure that you're following and do a meal composition structure, a framework that's going to be repeatable for you. That surplus phase is six

weeks. And then the reverse at the end is two weeks of us together. And then what we do is we have like an ending process where I kind of give you like a homework or a study on learning how to do it yourself. And we go, we put together a plan of, okay, this is where you are now. This is roughly where you're going to need to end up at. Here are the three things to look at to know when you've reached that place. And I want you to demonstrate, you know, kind of what you've learned over the last 22 weeks to set yourself up to make sure you're going to finish this reverse correctly. Yeah. You mentioned earlier, a lot of just the word that caught my ear was the circadian rhythm when you're traveling and being more in tune with whatever's going on with the planet and actually not dealing with so much stress like we do in our normal days here.

How much of the lifestyle factors are you paying attention to over the 22 weeks? Tons. So I start harping from the very beginning on sleep, specifically because if, you know, if the sleep, it's important everywhere, but it's most important when you're trying to lose fat, specifically because of what sleep does to curb cortisol. And, you know, when you're at maintenance or when you're in a surplus, you know, the cortisol may not be as, you know, detrimental because you have the other kind of recovery capacity of the extra calories. But then once we pull those in, that extra recovery capacity from the calories isn't helping out as much, your sleep becomes even more important. So we pay a large amount of

attention to your sleep because so many people, and I only know from literally personal experience, I was a really bad sleeper for the longest time and it's because of just so much of what we do we don't we don't go to bed until midnight or 1 a.m or you know we have our phones going off next to us and stuff like that and it's it the the the benefit it has on the fat loss because of what sleep does to modulate cortisol and keep it down. And then what it also allows your body to do is continue producing, you know, your growth hormone and testosterone. Testosterone also keeps, helps keep that cortisol down. And that's really the kind of secret recipe

for success with losing fat. Yeah. I mean, how many, I'm curious how many people – dude, everyone on this call right now owns a business. That shit's stressful. Doug's up at 4.30 a.m. He's an hour behind me. He calls me at the same time I wake up. You know what that means? Dude's up at 4.30. I'm up at 5.30.

That's not easy. How does he overcome – I'm talking for you, Doug. He needs help. He put on 15 whole pounds in captivity. How does he overcome? I'm talking for you, Doug. He needs help. He put on 15 whole pounds in captivity, and he's still four to six weeks out. He might be a whole 20 pounds. Lucky for him, dude is thick right now. He's so thick. I saw him running, pushing his kid on the bike.

Dude's a sick dick. I've been telling everyone that that i've talked about nutrition the last two months i'm like you're fucking crazy like if you have a home gym right now and you're and you're not putting on muscle mass you're crazy like your kitchen's right there you can go into your kitchen every two hours because you're not going anywhere you're not doing anything lift weights every day every morning maybe twice a day and just eat all day long put on muscle mass once i found out that i was in quarantine i was like i'm putting on some weight yeah sure my man weighed 206 all last month dang that's thick that's good yeah that's the i'm the biggest i've been since college i was like i was 214 at peak

in college and i was i was 210 yesterday morning damn getting. Yeah. It's life loves it. I mean, it's, and what we just talked about with like, you know, the, the cortisol on the, uh, the dieting side, it still plays an impact on the, um, on the other way when you're trying to put on muscle, it's just not it, the, your subjective, um, kind of, um, awareness of it isn't as noticeable because you have that extra, you know, capacity for, for the, the recovery. But, you know, with trying to put on muscle, you need that testosterone, you want that testosterone high because it's going to be, you know, more productive and cortisol is a killer to testosterone. So the same thing when you're trying to put muscle on and put

good weight on, you want to sleep because you're producing, you know, the sleep is when you're producing that testosterone. It's what's kind of resetting that cortisol and keeping and help keep it, you know, in its natural curve. So same thing goes, you know, with the other side of the equation too, when you're trying to get big. I think one thing a lot of people are really worried about too, and hiring a nutrition coach is that someone's just going to spit a spreadsheet at them and say, follow these macros and go. How, how like in touch are you with with your clients and and a little bit of just the connection that and and dealing with them on an individual basis because everybody is different and wants to have a real conversation with their coach yeah so with the metabolic performance

protocol we have either weekly or bi-weekly adjustments um we use true coach and that's just because true coach is is pretty good for tracking a bunch of metrics, which I love, you know, being objective as possible with tracking it. So we're tracking like your seven day moving averages. I want to know what sleep subjectively is like, and objectively, what stress levels, we're tracking a bunch of things. But we have your macros in there. And then we also use chronometer, which is the best food tracking application in the game, hands down. And what we do is we have weekly Monday night calls with everyone in the group. And what that is, is I want to one, make sure you understand everything from the previous

week. I want to make sure that any questions that came up from the previous week or the check-in that you understand, and we do it live on the call and that everyone knows exactly what they need to do for the upcoming week. So a lot of like common examples are like, oh, well, you know, I'm coming up 10 calories, sorry, 10 grams of protein short, you know, each day, how do I fix that? So like common things like that, we walk through, you know, right on the call and make sure that everyone understands it. And what's nice with the group aspect of it is you get to learn through other people's questions. So let's say that like you wouldn't necessarily have that question. It doesn't mean that you can't benefit from hearing that answer and learning because, you know, 10 days or two weeks down

the line, you're going to little, you know, little do you know, you're going to run into that same exact scenario. But because, you know, Kyle and the group ran into it last week, you now know how to approach it. Yeah. So there is like a community of people that are going through this process together. I imagine the majority of them are interacting with each other. And there's some level, yeah, we have like a Facebook group where people can like share, you know, kind of recipes or other things that are like kind of high level questions that come up midweek that they don't want to wait for the check-in or something like that. So that there's's that and then there's a little bit of that kind of competitiveness too that helps keep uh that motivation factor high when you see that someone in the someone in the group's crushing it like

week after week and you know you maybe had a a lower effort week or something there's a little bit of that uh like jealousy and male kind of competitive nature that helps fuel that as well um yeah dude i'd be taking shirt-off pics all day long and posting them in the group, showing people how swole I am. Look at me. I'm on the Metabolic Performance Protocol. Check it out. Gun show.

Dude, this has been so rad. Just everybody that's listening right now, I can't recommend going and doing this enough. I've been watching Aaron grow from super jacked, 220 pound regional athlete, um, into building this whole platform, which is super cool and helping a ton of people. Um, he wrote programs for us, um, and people are having just an awesome time on the one-time challenge. Um, where can people, uh, go and apply and see if this is a good fit for them? Yep. So, uh, easiest place to hit my website, which is strakernutritionco.com. And then there is a

link for the metabolic performance protocol right in the menu bar there. You can also reach out to me on my Instagram, which is Aaron underscore Straker. And the link in my bio is straight to the metabolic performance protocol page. You can submit an application there. And then what I do is everyone that submits an application, you and I will hop on a zoom call to make sure that the me and the metabolic performance protocol is going to be the right fit for you for reaching your goals. Beautiful. Doug Larson, tell them how you got to be 210 yesterday. You mean talking about EMOMA aesthetics? No, I'm just joking.

I was like, I totally will. I love that program. I'm eight weeks deep, and I'm making a continuation of it right now. Where can people find you, dude? I'm on Instagram, at Douglas C. Larson. I'm Anders Varner, at Anders Varner. We're barbellshruggedged at barbell underscore shrugged. And get over to barbellshrugged.com forward slash store.

All of the courses, Aaron Straker's one-ton challenge, nutrition template programs, you name it, it's all over there. Barbellshrugged.com forward slash store. Dude, I appreciate it. Where are you traveling to next? I have no idea. So that was the crazy thing we were supposed to be back in bali right now but then you know this whole global pandemic hit uh i don't know for now i'm just happy to be back stateside because nobody does grocery stores like the united states and they don't have

whole foods everywhere huh no they have like little convenience stores, grocery stores with half the things. Doug, next time. Well, I live in Ireland. It was like that when I lived in Australia. It was like that. I was like, I just want to go back to the States so I could just shop at my grocery store. Yeah, it's incredible coming back. Sorry, go ahead, Anders.

Next time we do life, we're going to go take like three or four years and just travel the world and teach nutrition. What we'll have multiple Bali trips planned out and our schedule. It'll be beautiful. Yeah. Um, we just need like a rent a husband business.

They can just, they can just come over here and hang out for a little while, while we're traveling. I love that. Um, dude, thanks a lot for hanging out and, we will see everyone next week.

Thank you for having me guys. Yeah. That's a wrap friends. Make sure you get over to barbell shrug.com forward slash physique. Use the coupon code physique to save 75% for brand new programs. You're going to build confidence. You're going to get the body you want in a training program to deliver it. It's going to be really radical.

Barbell shrug.com forward slash physique. Use the coupon code physique at checkout. Make sure you get over to Bioptimizers website. Magbreakthrough.com forward slash shrugged. And use the coupon code shrugged10 to save up to 40% off. Magnesiumbreakthroughorganified.com forward slash shrugged to save 20% on all the greens, reds, and gold juices. And then our friends at the Fit Together app, make sure you come check out my 30 day band workouts. Pretty fun over there. I'm tired of all the politics. All I want

is fitness and Fit Together app. Make sure you get into your app store, download it. And we're just talking fitness over there. It was super exciting. Uh, we'll see you guys on Monday next week.