Barbell Shrugged - No one cares about your excuses: learning from Kara Lazauskas, who has one lung and is stronger than you — Muscle Maven Radio Episode #19

Episode Date: June 13, 2019

Today’s episode is a deep dive into the life of Kara Lazauskas, a health and conditioning coach with a unique background rich in both athletics and adversity. Beginning at age three when she had her lung removed, continuing through NCAA level basketball and a number of serious ACL injuries, to a low point where Kara suffered from depression and a severe eating disorder. We talk about the struggle, growth and learning that came from finding health, balance, and purpose after hitting rock bottom, and how she is now able to help others through her coaching and research. We also chat about her time as a competitor on NBC’s Titan Games series, her work at Cal State Fullerton studying muscle fiber typing and protein signaling under Dr. Andy Galpin, her competitive MMA fighting experience, and more.   Born and raised in New Jersey, Kara Kilian Lazauskas grew up in a household where athletics and academics were the top priority. At the age of 3 she had her lung removed due to a tumor covering 75% of the left lung. She contests her love for human anatomy and physiology was born from that moment. With her body’s adaption and continuous push both mentally and physically, she was able to gain a scholarship to play at the NCAA level in basketball. However, 4 ACL reconstructions later in her right knee and no real basketball career left in sight, she was left wondering why me? That's where her purpose began.  The search for answers carried her into graduate school under Dr. Andy Galpin and Dr. Irene Tobias studying Muscle Fiber Typing and Protein Signaling at California State University-Fullerton. Now, as a coach, mentor, and masters of muscle physiology her years of criticism and experiences comes to serve her purpose, serving others. Kara was a competitor on NBC’s Titan Games, has competed in MMA, and now dedicates her time to researching and coaching.   Minute Breakdown:   3 - 31   Intro to Kara, including having a lung removed when she was three years old, pursuing sports and fitness at a young age and finding success in weightlifting and basketball. We delve into her knee injuries and the subsequent issues (including severely disordered eating) that resulted from her attempt to cope with losing the ability to play the sport she loved   31 – 36  How the trauma gave her the emotional intelligence to succeed and help others; how hitting rock bottom helped her address the issue rather than ignore it   36 - 45  Advice for how people can address, support, or help someone in their life who is exhibiting symptoms of an eating disorder     45 - 56  A discussion of her mental and physical recovery     56 – 1:13 How Kara got into coaching and her lab work with Dr. Andy Galpin, earning a master’s degree in muscle physiology, studying muscle fiber typing and protein signaling in athletes; why more of this type of research has to include women (turns out there are interesting differences between men and women in areas like nutrient timing windows and performance)   1:13 – 1:15 Kara talks about her remote and online coaching as well as one-on-one training, working with a range of athletes     1:15 – 1:28 I ask Kara how she got into competitive MMA fighting, and what that experience was like; why she continues to put herself in uncomfortable situations in order to learn and grow   1:28 – We talk about Kara’s experience with the NBC reality series The Titan Games         Follow Kara on Instagram at @kilerk0, and find out about her coaching and research at karakilian.com     ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Show notes: http://www.shruggedcollective.com/mmr-lazauskas ----------------------------------------------------------------------   ► Subscribe to Shrugged Collective's Channel Here http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Shrugged Collective is a network of fitness, health and performance shows that help people achieve their physical and mental health goals.  Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first Barbell Shrugged podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast. Find Shrugged Collective and their flagship show Barbell Shrugged here: SUBSCRIBE ON ITUNES ► http://bit.ly/ShruggedCollectiveiTunes WEBSITE ► https://www.ShruggedCollective.com INSTAGRAM ► https://instagram.com/shruggedcollective FACEBOOK ► https://facebook.com/barbellshruggedpodcast TWITTER ► http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged

Hey everybody, welcome to Muscle Maven Radio. I'm your host, Ashley, aka The Muscle Maven. And today's interview is with Kara Lazowskis, and her story, I think, is really one about grueling self-discovery and hard work and not making excuses. Because ultimately, I think something we learn as we all grow up is that no one really gives a shit about your excuses, right? Because all of us, some of us have more challenges than others, but all of us have reasons to give up. We all have obstacles and disadvantages and things that happen outside of our control that make things harder and that seem unfair. But it's how you react to all of that that makes the difference. Do you let your

disadvantages stop you? Do you let them make you bitter? Or do you use them to learn and become stronger and work harder? You know, it's a long life to spend it being angry and bitter and upset about things that really you had nothing to do with. So I think that some of us even who are lucky enough to not have much adversity in our lives, you know, we were born into a safe place and had money and had our needs met. Some of us even go out of our way to to put adversity into our lives on purpose, because it seems like it's human nature that we just need that friction to to work a little harder and to accomplish our goals. So that's what I'm talking about today with Kara Lazauskas. She is a speaker. She's a health and conditioning coach.

She just completed a master's degree in muscle physiology, working with Dr. Andy Galpin. She's a competitive athlete in a number of areas. And her story starts when she was three. She had one of her lungs removed. And despite that, grew up and was really into sports and was very active and very talented. She played NCAA basketball in college and had a number of ACL injuries and subsequent surgeries. And that specific incidence of having to stop playing basketball when she was in college led to kind of a downward spiral where she was depressed

and developed a severe eating disorder that almost killed her before really doing, like I said, the grueling hard work to come out of that and to learn about herself and to overcome the control issues and the body dysmorphia and all the things that she had to deal with to become a person who can not only help herself but help others and she also was just recently a contestant on NBC's Titan Games I don't know if you guys know about that show but basically it means that I am now one step removed from the rock no big deal and she's had some MMA fights I mean this is just the beginning of what this woman is doing and accomplishing. So I really hope you enjoy the interview. It was really inspiring for me because I didn't know most of this about her. I just knew that she seemed like a strong

badass and I wanted to talk to her. And it turns out, as always, there's a lot more going on underneath the surface. So I apologize. The sound, her sound isn't awesome. I managed to track her down on Skype. So it's a little bit echoey, but it's really worth listening to because there's so much to gain from Kara's story. So I hope you enjoy the interview and thanks for listening. Kara, I appreciate you taking the time and braving the horrible technology so that we can connect and chat. I'm very excited to talk to you and learn more and hear your story because from what I know of it, it's pretty fucking cool. So thank you. Well, thank you for having me, Ashley.

I 100% appreciate it. Deeply grateful. And, you know, team support teams and constantly make the circle stronger, tighter, and better. And as I was saying offline, we are both part of a very cool team with a lot of strong women based in New York. And that's how, I mean, Gabrielle, who I mentioned and had on the podcast, and she has introduced me to many podcast guests, but many friends, many resources. And I think that that's an important thing is to have that community that's strong and lifting each other up and teaching each other and also willing to embrace new people and introduce people. And like that, that's important. And I'm super grateful that I have that opportunity. So this is gonna be good.

It's gonna be amazing. Yeah, everyone that's learning to know how to drop the ego and yet challenge each other at the same time. Yeah. That's what it's all about. All right. So start, let's start by like kind of going back high level. And I know it's probably annoying for you.

You've probably had to do this a bunch of times, but when you're cool and people care about you, you got to do the boring stuff first. So maybe just like, tell us your story, like introduce us to who you are and what you do and how you came to be doing the work that you're doing right now yeah so very long story short at three and a half years old which if anyone had seen the show on NBC the Titan Games you saw my step one one of my new piece I think my new piece of my story kind of hammered time and time and again uh you know that's TV for you is when I was three and a half I had a huge tumor on my left lung that covered 75% of it it ended up not being cancer but they thought it was they

took out my whole lung and so I lived pretty much between May of 1995 on, so since three and a half, with only one lung, so only my right lung. After that, it kind of, my whole life was based upon this inhibitory capacity. So I was always, and kind of another side to that, or side keep, I guess people should recognize this, that goes along with how I'm going to continue this is that my whole life even since three and a half I've always had short hair so I've had short hair my entire life it wasn't like I became 15 I'm a rebel or you know I realized you know I like girls or I like guys and I decided to cut my hair short right like the singer pig because that seems to be

the one thing I can't let you cut my hair short. So I've always gone down this road since a very young age of being the quote-unquote different one or being told that I need to be androgynous or I need to be, you know, lifting weights and doing such because that's what my appearance is saying. But for years, it was also my therapy. So it was kind of this double-edged sword where my entire life, and a big part of it is I was able to tell who feel wrong because of what happened to me at a young age and because of that event and experience of having to show doctors

that I am capable, I do have the capacity, I can play sports. And I was cleared to play sports at age 8. Went right into soccer, played basketball after that, track and field. And at age 12 i became obsessed with lifting weights i got p90x for christmas and it was done after that you know it seems everything is the reason beach body is a billion dollar company seems a lot of people at those younger years somehow got really into fitness and realized their life's purpose

through some traumatic event or some life event. And then plus, they somehow beat your body weight or sports. And my own kind of combination of everything. I grew up in a household with a dad that was an All-American wrestler, was a Division I wrestling coach. We had a wrestling man in our basement. Growing up in the middle of New Jersey, it was a very, as most people know who come from New Jersey, a very don't ask, don't tell state.

A very rigid state where most of my childhood was you do well in school, you play sports, you go to church, and that's what you do. Anything other than that is the devil's work, so to speak. And I grew up my whole life thinking that if I wasn't excellent in sports, if I wasn't an A-plus student, I was nothing. So through that mindset, which is a very narrow-minded way of thinking, I ended up through five knee surgeries. So kind of a flash forward, I ended up, I fell in love with the game of basketball. I was in love with weightlifting. I was always in the gym training eight hours a day.

Any chance I could, I was training. And a thousand shots up in the weight room. I drew to play overseas basketball. Well, four ACL surgeries took that career away from me, took that opportunity away from me. And that was my whole identity, though. And I lost that. So when I lost that identity, I didn't know who I was. Like, who was Tara if she wasn't playing sports? And I think a lot of people, you know, speak to this in the sense of, you know,

anyone who's injured, they kind of have that sense of, you know, who, wait, who am I now? Like, what do I do with my life? And I had that kind of on a big scale. And as I say, I went batshit crazy. And I ended up, you know, I've always, they say it's an eating disorder because you always have it, you're diagnosed with it. But it was very situational in the sense that once I lost identity, I turned to food. So I ended up being hospitalized in November 2011 for a few months in an eating disorder unit. And going down all the way to 95 pounds,

I was feet away from, you know, I was 32 on my beats per minute. So the head car just come down from the hospital. And that was a moment that, you know, now I look back and I don't associate with myself. I talk to a lot of people about that part of my story that are recovering themselves to say, if I look back at it, I don't associate with myself. I talk to a lot of people about that part of my story that are recovering themselves to say, if you look back on those moments and you still have an emotional reaction or you get sweaty or you have some sensation, you're not recovered yet. So when I talk about it, I feel like I'm not talking about myself at all.

I feel like I'm talking about a story. And that part of my story really changed my perspective on what life's about in fitness and what health actually is versus what is an addiction and obsession in an unhealthy manner. So that was a couple of huge shifts in my life, but that was maybe the biggest shift, especially being half-swagged in that nature and being told by lots of therapists that I shouldn't be working out, that weight weights are bad, and basically putting my whole world upside down and tell me the exact opposite, really made me question a lot about what life was, what is actual health.

And also, though, what is wrong with, you know, our therapeutic system, that we think it's okay to tell people that. And we think that that cookie cutter system heals anybody because that never healed me. What healed me was being around the right support and doing my own work internally and realizing how the external manifests to find out who I really was. Dude, I have so many questions. All right.

You gave me a lot to work with. So I appreciate that. Okay. All right. So let's start from the beginning. And I know you mentioned with the, the Titan games, kind of like they found their soundbite, which was the, when you were three, you had the surgery to have your lung removed. So maybe that's a little bit of a sort of irritating part that you don't want to put too much emphasis on, but it is a formative thing in your life, as you said. So you currently right now have one lung? Correct. Okay. I didn't even know that people could get, I thought you had to have like a, I thought you had to have both. Like I thought you had to get like a lung transplant and get another one. No. Okay. So I learned. All right. And so I guess you were so young, maybe, I don't know if that would have made a difference in your recovery. Like if you were an adult when you had to have it done, I don't know if it would have been different.

But I'm assuming that, and this is something I'm sure you've learned a lot about, but physiology, your other lung strengthens and manages to compensate, right? Yeah, correct. So that's the very fortunate truth is that I was so young. So the beauty also of, you know, diving in and then saying yes to being on the show was the amount of emails

I got from mothers of six-year-olds. You know, I got an email from a little young girl's mother who she was getting going through, I did not have cancer, but I did have her moved and she was getting her through i did not have cancer but i did have removed and she was getting removed as well and she wanted some advice and you know i had a lot of reach out in that capacity it was really beautiful to see but at the same time i always like to explain

to people that i was very lucky if your daughter and they're going through this they have removed they're very you can't you gotta remember how grateful that is at that time period in their physiology because if it happens when you're 15, if it happens when you're 20, now a 40-year-old with lung cancer, your body's already fully developed. It's already fully aged. So losing a lung then is very, very hard to come back from. It's much of a challenge it could possibly be for your cardiovascular system, cardiorespiratory system, where me, I was so young that my body grew up

not knowing the difference. And it's a big joke in my family. They watched the show. They were texting me, FaceTiming me back and forth. Like, we kind of forgot that you only had one. Like, that was just how we knew you. That was your normal. So for me, it's quite normal.

For everyone else, it seems abnormal. But, you know, I still have the scar knew you. That was your normal. So for me, it's quite normal. You know, for everyone else, it seems abnormal. But, you know, I still have the scar, actually. It's so funny. I still have the scar, even as big as I am now, about 27. I still have the scar across my ribcage. Because you forget that after you rip your ribcage open to get it out. Even though I was three, I still have the scar. And I was just very fortunate very fortunate you know like I said

most if they're young and I had a couple of chats after the show with families I wanted had questions and advice I told them all the same thing you're very fortunate your son or daughter is so young they'll recover they're going to be stronger than ever because of it the hard conversation is when a child is or an adult is 18, 19, 20, and this is happening. Have you done testing to see, like, what your lung capacity is or what your sort of, like, is it, would it be on par with an adult female athlete or are you still kind of under or what's happening?

I'm under. Yeah, you are. I'm 78% lung capacity right now it's gone up 3% in the last three years so with the help of the like-minded people people like Brian McKenzie the world the power speed endurance the XPT like you know work I've done with SEAL fits. Incorporating all that into my daily routine and my daily, weekly, monthly life has helped tremendously increasing my capacity to do work, especially my lung capacity.

I mean, 3% in three years is a lot, considering I don't have a lot of room to grow on the one side, but my heart has actually shifted over so it's really subconsciously what I know now is that really my whole life has been set up to be it makes sense why my purpose is in helping people with their health and fitness and strength and conditioning because I know what it did for my life I know what being healthy and develop my body and constantly learning from other people in different modalities how it changed my body and constantly learning from other people in different modalities, how it changed my life and how it changed my mindset and my physiology to be able to work harder and work smarter and better. So it's always been a game changer for me to continue

to kind of press that, turn that dial up and know when to turn it down as well. Yeah. And of course, I think it says a lot about you too, that you didn't just decide to like try to be baseline healthy or maybe a sport that isn't super cardiovascularly challenging. Like you're doing jujitsu and like boxing and like, I have some experience with that. And that is really fucking cardiovascularly challenging. Like you're not trying to avoid the situations where you need your lungs. So, I mean, I think that's, I mean, just a hint of what we're not trying to avoid the situations where you need your lungs so I mean I think that's I mean just a hint of what we're going to talk about the rest of this conversation

but that's really saying something um okay so I want to try to see if I can go chronologically but we'll see so when you get into basketball and you have your ACL injury you said okay was that from that was from training was it from actually playing basketball? Actually playing. So all my ACL tears were contact injuries. So my first one, I'll never forget it, because this just kind of goes to a sense of my personality, so to speak, is at Penn State, kind of everything going great for me. Like, sky's the limit, divisional and scholarships on the line, especially for being 5'5", it

spoke to my work ethic. And stole the ball, was going down, this big sasswatch girl, you know, got her up in the air, got the foul, as I was coming down, her whole sasswatch body, you know, 6'4", fell on me.

And all the weight, as I was landing, took my entire knee out so we fell together I got I just remember blowing up right away I got the foul so I tried to limp to the free throw line and take my free throws but you automatically like the first time I tore it it was pretty not everyone has this experience but for me it blew up right away it was massive and I just remember thinking to myself because I had no idea at the time. I was 16, 17 years old. At the time, I had no idea what an injury was.

I never had one. You know, I didn't consider the lung surgery, you know, an injury in my regards. So I didn't know how to handle it. I didn't know what rehab was. I didn't know what it meant to take a break. I didn't know what it meant to take a break. I didn't know what it meant to not do what you love. So I was very stubborn about it. I was very much like, I'm going to come back right away.

And I came back to play my senior year of high school basketball within four and a half months post-surgery, which is not smart in any regard, which goes to my love of the FMS tools and standards that were so big back when I was in high school 10 years ago. I was cleared by FMS. My PT cleared me. Medics cleared me. So I was cleared by all medical professionals to go back to play basketball. Eight months later, I tore it down up in Boston. In basketball, it's considered, it's kind of like a

five-star where you're invited to go. I was with all the best point guards in the country at the time. I was, you know, living the dream, so to speak, like, I'm back, 1ACL, I'm good, it's never going to happen again. Ended up tearing it again there, and I'll never forget the faces, the best, I mean,

Caroline Dowdydy all the point guards from UConn, UNC, Michigan and the little old me who like was still trying to make it and I was actually offered a half scholarship to St. Louis University I was going to take it the next morning is when I tore it and so that happened had rehab and then six months of the pts were again on the basketball court so three within a two-year period yeah that i mean that's severely traumatic for anyone much less like a high-performing athlete who is also a teenager um okay so when this happened you're now dealing with like pretty severe injury really long-term recovery, um, possibly not playing basketball again. You're very young. Um, when, what was the process by like, what,

how was that recovery? And then I guess you were struggling with some, some disordered eating, right? How did that process happen? Like how long did it take? What was your like mindset that went from maybe being angry and defensive about it, like, it's going to be fine, I'm going to sort it out, to any kind of, like, depression or sadness, or how do you come out of it? Like, what was your mindset when you were dealing with that final injury? My mindset was one of complete and utter chaos. There was no calm in that chaos.

I was very aggressive. I mean, I already have an aggressive personality. Hashtag New Jersey. But I was very... I was always very stubborn. This was to a whole other level of you can't tell me what to do. This is what I'm going to do. I'm going to still work out. I mean, I still

train my upper body. I remember still bench pressing with my brace and everything on in the weight room. So the moment they said I could ride the bike I was riding the bike and doing sprint intervals like a crazy person like a complete lunatic for two three hours while everyone else was practicing and I just didn't know how to say no and I wasn't gonna let anyone tell me no I can't live this dream this is my whole life this is who I am you can't tell me I'm not playing basketball you know anymore you can't tell me that so I dove off the deep end and then it was a moment where I finally had my final breakdown and for me it seems to be you know up until last couple years it I didn't go through

those traumatic ones I don't go through those traumatic moments. I don't think I've ever would have gotten to this place that took those very traumatic events. So for me, it was one day I had gotten through a spell where I was, I saw my PT, he was crying and my coaches came in and they were crying and my head coach and it was that time I was at Sliprock University outside of Pittsburgh, Division II basketball at that time. And they told me, you can't, you're done, your career's over.

They sat me down at an intervention and said, you need to hang it up. You can't have this, you probably need a fourth one, it's already loose, you need to hang it up. And at that point, I'll never forget that we're all crying really the conversation didn't go any further than you just need to say it's over like it's over

like you just need to accept it and I remember saying the word accept and the first thing that came to my mind at that time was how can what athlete accepts this what go-getter what person wants to win a championship accepts this I don't accept this and that's when I go off the actual deep end and I turned to again controlling food and it got to a point that first I was still at outside in subrock Pennsylvania at the time middle of nowhere did you play sports or you're out in Hollywood type of city type of town and I turned to not eating being on the elliptical on the bike for hours uh caring so much about my body image probably haven't slayed by dysmorphia

probably still do like I think that's something that everyone has a little bit of today in today's social media society and started taking if I did eat I would force myself like force laxative down my throat to punish myself or I'd go exercise for hours and it took one of my teammates Shannon Lee who is a psychologist ironically she tells my story in a psychologist in Wisconsin now because she helps she helps a lot of people deal with eating disorders out in Wisconsin so she still tells my story as a point of reference, could ride like how bad it can get before it actually gets better. For me, it took one night of me saying, you know, I've had enough. I don't want my life anymore. I went into my apartment

in Sibirok. I downed a bottle of vodka. So I don't even know. It was what I call, I call emotional blackouts, where it's like something you can't even describe. You know the actions you took, but you don't, you seem like you're a part of yourself. It's not you doing it. But I remember doing that and just taking as many glasses as I possibly could and not laying in my bed and just hoping, I locked my door and just hoping I would die.

So it wasn't for my teammate walking in the door and knowing, she already knew I was down a bad path. And she knocked on the door, she sent me to the ER, and they put me in a psych ward for a week. So that was the moment I realized how bad I actually let it get and how bad I actually was. And again, my head coaches, teammates of mine at the time, there's no greater rock bottom than having all those people in a room with you in a psych ward with people that actually have schizophrenia and have these disorders. And you're placed in there with them and told you are them.

Like, you're just like them. You're just as crazy. And told you're you are them like you're just like them you're just as crazy and knowing you're not and like I said I was only in there for a week because it was a safety precaution but I'll never forget that moment it's it's so odd to me to remember being put in a straitjacket by police because this again this goes kind of circles back to my issues with the health system at universities and how they handle student athletes and how they handle issues of mental health and suicide and because it's not handled correctly they didn't handle me correctly because I definitely didn't need to go there and I needed to get but I still need to get the right help

but I think that was the best thing for me at that time because it was such an extreme measure that they took that it forced me to start to look deeper into myself and start making a change slowly. And that was a two-year process. Okay. So this is like giving me chills. This is such a, like, this is a crazy story. I knew very little about it. And, I mean, I feel like we're going to all learn a lot from this story.

So I really appreciate you sharing it because I know this isn't easy shit to talk about. It can't be. Um, but when you, when you started having these kind of like dysfunctional behaviors around eating, um, exercise, over-exercise and the chronic cardio, all that kind of stuff from when that started to when you were hospitalized, how long of a period was that? Eight months. And when this was happening, so prior to that, had you ever had, I mean, you were young at this point,

so like, had you ever had any kind of what people would consider a little bit like extreme attitude about fueling yourself as an athlete

or were you just like a teenager who's like, I'm just going to eat whatever the fuck? Yeah, anyone, a good reference for anyone to really recognize 100% what I went through is Brett Falthomio's book, Conscious Coaching. Okay.

He went through a similar, not to my extreme of the psych ward, you know, events and all that jazz, but he describes what he went through in his book in the eating disorder eating himself to the t about of what i went through to the t because it was such a process of just thinking my entire life again like i said like having an eating disorder just because you're not diagnosed it doesn't mean you don't have disorder eating or you don't have these thoughts. I think anyone, any elite athlete can be diagnosed with an eating disorder if you look at the behavior list. I think anyone in the social media, you know,

that's a fitness influencer on social media or a supplement influencer on social media, if you look at their Instagram or their Facebook, every therapist and psychologist in the country that works with eating disorders would say they have an eating disorder. Yeah. Just based on their behaviors. It's just that I've been diagnosed. So my whole life, I was always very much a person, even in high school. I would eat an apple

instead of chips because I knew that made me better than the opponent, my teammates. I always still had those thoughts. I always knew it was a part of me. And I always was super into, I remember still had those thoughts. I always knew it was a part of me. And I always was super into, I remember reading nutrition books and like eat this, not that when I was in high school, because I'm like, I'm getting better. I'm better than you. I'm better than you because I'm studying this. I'm eating healthy. Was actually eating healthy? No, because I pretty much just

wasn't eating a lot and saying I was eating healthy. But it's hard, it's a hard thing to address because it is, there is such a gamut of dysfunction and what, like where it hits the sort of tipping point between, yeah, maybe you're being a little bit weird about what you eat to this is a dangerous dysfunctional behavior. Because I agree with what you're saying. Like I have a bodybuilding background. I did some weird extreme shit.

And I was actually very, like I was on the non extreme side as far as bodybuilders go. But still, like if you look at my normal not workout friends, they'd be like, you're a nut job. You know what I mean? And I agree with you. Like I know tons of people that are on social media that are nutrition influencers and people who to outside of that world, people would think it was extreme, but it's, it's a subjective thing sometimes too. Right. And I think it doesn't, it's not until it hits the point where how much is this affecting your life? Because as you're describing in high school, if there's kids who are like, you know what, I don't want to drink on the weekends and I want to eat fruits and

vegetables because I want to be an athlete to a lot of people that's like, well, you're, you're ahead of the game. Like you're smart. You're thinking about, you know. But then, of course, people might look at you and think that's what you're doing when really you were severely restricting your calories to a point that was unhealthy. It's sometimes hard to – it's hard for people outside to make objective judgments on that. It's hard for the person going through it because you're seeing so much conflicting information and because you've got so much going on inside. So I feel like that, that is disordered eating is a really tricky one and a really insidious one because it's really, really hard to pick up on and address. There's just such, it's so layered and it's so varied. There's so many psychoactive, somatic, yeah, emotional components. Like I said, it's the biggest layered, to make it ironic,

the biggest layered cake you could ever imagine. Like, you know, the Prince of Dubai's wedding cake. It's just everything is absurd. And I was praised for it in middle school and high school i was praised for carol is such an athlete i won all the awards that was all state this i'll say that so i thought i was doing everything like i was going to be the next kobe bryant like i was no i just have a better mindset than you i'm tougher than you i always you know i was praised for that i was praised to be the toughest like every award for the driven award, like, the mentally tough award, just, you know,

even my high school coaches, again, just the reference to the show, because it's funny how people came back and, you know, rightfully came back in life, not rightfully, but, you know, called me. My high school coaches called me. And it hit home so hard for me because they're like, remember, because they were saying the same stuff. Like, remember, man, you were always the hardest worker in the room you were there's no one there was no one that I ever coached in high school and still to this day that the work ethic you did

and I had to say back to him like now at this point in my life like it was a weakness and a strength and I wish I understood the weaknesses because I'm but at the same time would I be where I am today if I didn't have those events happen to me? When I look at fitness and different modalities of training and nutrition and even the mental side of things, with your ego and pride and the same way that I might feel, it's probably not. I don't think I would be where I'm at mentally if I wasn't for those events. I think I would eventually, I would have caved because I think it was just a huge part

of my strength is also my weakness. Demons that are inside of us, same thing that makes us great. One of my favorite books is Relentless by Timothy S. Grover. Not because it's just about his basketball athletes, but because of the way he speaks upon it and speaks about these greats,

anyone who's great and successful, those same greatnesses are also demons. They just know how to control them. And that's what I had to learn is that these demons are also strengths, but I need to understand them, understand when is the demon, when is the not power, like the Satan side, demon side, weakness side talking, and when is actual coward talk, when is my actual self talking? Once you, it's a weird click, but once you decipher those differences, especially in the fitness industry, that's when you start to really enjoy the process and enjoy and find your purpose in this field and understanding.

And you now have emotional intelligence to now speak to others. Yes. Yeah, I mean, I think like what you're saying, it's about being able to harness your demons and your trauma and make it work for you instead of work against you. And that is something that, as you said, most people need to go through it and face it and kind of hit the bottom before they, they can deal with it. Because as long as you're sort of still functioning, or you can still kind of deny what's happening or push it, push it like away and not think about it. You're not addressing it. You're not using it. And sometimes these things have to come to a head the way they did with you for you to be able to learn how to, how to use it. Okay. So when you were, when you were struggling this way and you were losing weight and it was pretty apparent, I would imagine to

the people close to you that you were struggling where there were family members, were friends, were, were roommates kind of saying like, Kara, like what's going on? Can we help? Like, did, how did people approach it? Uh, my, I'm a very, and this is part of, I think, once we recognize the huge difference between being diagnosed with an eating disorder at a certain point and not, and it just kind of being that, that layered cake spectrum is when you really do have an eating disorder, you're a very, very good liar, and you're very, very sneaky, and you're very hidden. I was very good at hiding everything that was actually going on from my mom, my dad, my family. And also, it was beneficial. I was living in Pennsylvania at the time. They were all in New Jersey.

They had no idea what was going on with me. I was a very good liar. I was a very good talker. And the only people that saw through me were some of my teammates. And we had a couple of, you know, they would talk to me. My roommates at the time, also my teammates, you know, came up to me every day, every night, like, how are you doing? You want to walk to class together?

Like, let's go get something to eat. And I remember getting, like, shaken if I something to eat and I remember getting like shaking if I went to eat with other people because I didn't want to eat around them like I didn't want to do anything like I was I was so on edge over everything in my life that even going to eat with people when they're they're trying to help and it was very hard for me to get over that boundary but I if it wasn't for my teammates, and specifically Shannon Lee, who to this day we still talk to all the time, she's almost like half best friend, half therapist.

That's a good friend to have. Yeah, it was very good to have. Plus, being a psychologist, now she's a psychologist, so it's funny how those events led her to then go through that. And I said to a lot of people, the hardest thing when it comes to, even if you're not doing, you're trying to help someone you see is going through this, it's very hard to get through to them until they get through themselves. You know, you got to just continue to remind yourself, talk to the person, not through the person, just not to, the lighter

you keep it, and the more you just get to know them outside of anything to do with nutrition, fitness, or food, the more feeling they'll get out of it, and eventually they'll start to see the light, but I've seen so many people go downhill so fast because people think they're helping an athlete or a client get through those behaviors by going to the gym with them or going out to eat with them when that's the worst thing you can do the best thing you can do is get to be their friend and get to know them without that attachment and then it's hard to realize what are some sort of like as someone who's gone through this what are some really and you're talking about it now, but some really practical ways for if there's someone in your life that you think is struggling with this kind of stuff, like what are some real practical things that we can do and not do?

Because, again, this is a really, really tough situation. And it's one that, like you said, isn't super black or white, like, yes, this person has an eating disorder, or this person doesn't. And also the way that it manifests itself physically, it's a very awkward, tough situation to bring up with people. Like if I have a friend who's suddenly getting like super, super skinny, and in the gym four hours a day, it's not like it's kind of like an okay thing. A lot of times you just go up to your friend, be like, what is wrong with you? What are you doing? And on the flip side, like we, you know, we have this obesity epidemic in North America. It's still not really appropriate or okay to address somebody

because it's like, dude, you gained 50 pounds in the last two years. Like what's up when maybe if it's approached the right way, someone could be actually crying out for some kind of support or help or, or like a someone to talk to or someone to listen to so if someone has someone in their life that they have strong reason to believe is struggling from some kind of disordered eating what are some thoughts as someone who again has experienced it like what would you tell us like how do we approach it how do we deal with it how do we be there for that person? I think it definitely, 100% actually it depends on the individual that you're speaking of or that you want to connect with and help.

Because I've met a lot of people that, it depends on the sense of the athlete. Are they just a mom? You know, I can't tell you how many times I've in a gym and I've seen that six-year-old. And you know they have something going on. It's so blatantly obvious. You don't have to be a therapist to see it. And you want to help them, but if you don't know them, to bring up that conversation, again, is a very gray area. What I always tell people is the best thing you can do is show them love first.

And if they really need the help, they will start talking to you. They will say it. But the worst thing you can do, and my biggest advice application-wise for someone in your life that either you love or is a client of yours that you're coaching, you see it starting to go down this rabbit hole, is make sure you have the emotional intelligence to connect with them. Start asking questions. How's your family? What's going on? You know, what are you doing on the weekends?

You know, how was your Monday? How was your Tuesday? Did you see the kids? Did you go out, you know, oh, you drank last night. How many drinks do you have? Like, oh, there's little signs of that and questions you can ask the individual that over time, all of a sudden they start to say, you know, I'm not. I trust this person. Yeah. I trust this person now. I know I can help it out because one of the key signs and one of the,

like I said, the secrecy, one of the key signs and one of the, like I said, the secrecy, one of the key signs of someone who actually is going down that rabbit hole is the secrecy and the lack of admittance. They don't want to admit that something's wrong because that shows weakness. And the point of the eating disorder, just like any addiction, I call it the Western issue because you don't see kids in Africa with eating disorders. They're just starving. There's other addictions out there it's just like any other addiction it's just

a prevalent one in the fitness industry and I always tell people you need to get to know them first because the way I didn't open up for as long as I did why I stayed so silent for as long as I did and continued the behaviors is because I didn't think anyone cared enough to want to help me.

But I didn't even want to help myself. So then I did it. So you need to be patient and give them the time and show that you love them first and you actually care. Once that clicks for them, they're going to start talking and they're going to say, you know what, maybe I need help. But the main take-home of anyone dealing and going down that rabbit hole is that they don't feel like they have anyone to help them

or anyone that understands them so they're gonna keep using those behaviors to try to heal themselves in that kind of disquieted pattern and it all I mean it sounds really corny but it all comes down to showing that you love them first because no one's asked for help. And so, I mean, I didn't ask for help for as long as I did, because I didn't think anyone gave a crap. That's really helpful. And I mean, I think people who are lucky enough to not have had any kind of disordered eating at any point in their life, there might be two or three of them out there. But people who have not maybe dealt with this personally can understand it in a way. Like if you have a friend or family member who's trying to get you to try a new diet or get a new job or get married and have kids or whatever

it is they want you to do by approaching it like I have the answer. I know what's wrong with you. I know how to fix you. Never works like people don't like to feel defensive or like they're being attacked or like what they're doing is wrong. So I think what you're saying and it's applicable to everything is just, if you love somebody and care about their health and wellbeing, show them that and show them that you're there and you can be trusted and you support them and you love them and then sort of let them come to you because that's really the only way people can, can make changes, I guess.

Yeah. No, the worst thing, I've seen it before and I had a friend of mine who wanted me to help with a, one of her friends that she saw going down the rabbit hole. And I saw it, too, but I didn't know her. So she told me, and she asked me for advice. And I said, what have you asked her so far? And she said, I asked her, you know, about her diet. I said, oh, wait, wait, wait a second.

Do not, like, very uncomfortable. Talk to her about food the worst thing you can do to someone going down the rabbit hole is ask them questions on diet and exercise how you should live today because now you're making it seem to them like if you asked me at that point in life how'd your workout go you're solidifying to me that it's okay what I'm doing and you're not getting to know me anyway and it's again a defensive mechanism so I defending my right well you just solidified the fact that it's okay for me to do that because you're asking me questions about what I do so clearly I'm doing something right right so making sure you're asking

yeah the questions that have questions and they won't know no one's they're not going to know what you're getting at. They're just going to, oh, she doesn't want to know about my diet routine or my fitness or, you know, she doesn't want to know how many pounds I weigh on the scale. Huh, that's interesting. She cares about these things. She doesn't know how my weight is. Yeah.

That's weird. Yeah. Because when I was going through it, you know, and this is something that really fried my brain is, and why it took me so long to actually be in full mental physical recovery is people still outside even when I was out of the hospital people still ask me text me email questions hey like can you help me out with the diet hey can you help me out with the spinach chain so it took me a lot of time to get recovered because I still have people solidified the fact that it was okay to do what I was doing because it got me so much attention.

It's an attention-seeking behavior and we see this all the time in figure and bodybuilding too. And I tell people all the time, I did figure. I did it and I tell people the story. I won a show when I was 19 years old. I won a, no actually 20 years old. 20 years old, I won a figure show, got gold, and I haven't shared that picture yet. I have it somewhere up in the Facebook. I need to post it one day just to kind of send the poem home because it's that time of year where everyone's doing shows. I won that show, and I threw up six times that day prior. Forced myself to throw up so I looked skinnier on stage. And I won that show. Now is that, that is nowhere near everyone that does that.

Of course there's healthy ways to do it. But I got out of it because I couldn't, that was not for me mentally. A lot of people mentally it's for them. For me it was not. So I mean for me I had to stop thinking that having those behaviors because

I got a gold medal because yeah throwing like having full umbilia yeah and you can't put yourself in situations where you're basically being praised and encouraged for the dysfunctional behavior did you when you so when you had the psych ward experience, which I would imagine was definitely like a lightbulb moment for you when you're coming out of the other end of that and recovering and learning and becoming more healthy. How did that process look? Did you have a therapist, a psychologist? Did you just have better communication with your friends and family how did you relearn how to eat properly nourish your body get healthy get mentally healthy like what was that process looking like that was a long about two year process that was a long i would say up until 2013 2014 you know which isn't that long ago five years ago which is the exact time i met Gabrielle so it's really ironic paths uh for me it was still up and down like I'd be really good I would you know be eating

so-called healthy I wouldn't be just not eating because I didn't deserve it type of behavior uh I wasn't working out excessively I got into into CrossFit. As do we all at some point. Yeah, I got into CrossFit and it filled that void of being an athlete, feeling like an athlete again, that was so wanting because

at the end of the day I realized I'm an athlete and I want to be an athlete in whatever capacity that may be. But to think that it's never part of me is the wrong thinking. It's always a part of you. I think everyone has a piece of them that's competitive and wants to be an athlete. Just bring them down, find the right outlet. And for me, CrossFit did that my first two years at the hospital.

Once I got to healthy weight, I was seeing therapists regularly, and none of them ever worked out for for reasons that actually reason why i mentioned you know conscious coaching and brett's book is because he describes what he went through in therapy too in two of the chapters and the moment he talked about i was like clapping i was like oh finally someone says it that's in our industry about how how bad it is because I felt the same thought I had the same thoughts of you're telling me that I can't like that strength conditioning is bad for me you're telling me that lifting weights is bad you're you're telling me that a cake is the same as having a protein bar you're telling me it's equal to the same thing? That makes

zero sense. So I went through a lot of therapists, and a lot of that means, and what got me out of it was actually one day, I was in a very depressive mood. I was actually, my first year out, my psychiatrist prescribed me Zoloft, and I was on it for a month and I walked into his office and I said basically F you I see right through you you know I'm not giving you $350 for 10 minutes give me another pill and I went off to cold turkey I got a lot of questions and concerns about that because this suicide rate and but a week later I felt like myself again also like oh camera's back like I have emotions so again it depends not for everybody but there is a lot of research on the decline in health and SSRI prescriptions that is that's something that you can refute now and I was googling

one really depressive day I was googling hard military challenges or hard challenges like tough matter type stuff never expected the first thing to pop up would pop up but still fit popped up on the Google and I'll ever use my dad's part of my parents have been divorced for a couple years soft pop up I was like crying I was depressed I was like what's wrong with me why can't I get to this not another bad day it's like the third time this week. Saw that popped up. Saw Kikoro, which is still fits 50 hours, simulation of how we, I was like, for some reason, I don't know what, to this day, I have no reason why, something clicked in my head.

This is going to change your life. This is better than therapy. This is your therapy. And I did a whole, I spent like two hours making a PowerPoint presentation. You know, because it costs money to see my mom and my dad

and, you know, convincing them to help me fly to California, to see if California would do it. And they did. And they said, okay,

I hope this is for the best. You know, we're worried about you still. Like, you're still not fully there. And that weekend, I will always say this, changed my entire life. And don't normally say that about weekends or weeks.

Like I said, I'm going to South Africa tomorrow for Hoos for Hope. I'm going to teach basketball to kids out there. And I know that's going to be a great eye-opener. But I still don't think I'm do anything with what happened that weekend. Because not many things change you in three days. And not everyone, again, everyone's different. Not everyone has this experience with Kokoro. Because everyone's at a different place in their life.

But I think I was at such a low place. And it was exactly what I needed. The physical, the mental, the ice baths, the people I was surrounded by. I've always loved the discipline of the military. I tried to get in the Marines several times when I was in high school, but with one lung, I'm a liability to the government, so I can't. So I've always had that in me. It was just weird how that day and during that weekend, going out to California, I remember the sunset the second morning, going into that 40th hour and seeing the sunset and i remember saying to

myself huh i'm moving here and it they do in kokoro there's one evolution that we do where they fuel you up with a lot of food and i think this is where again eating disorder wise i got forward covered and that's why i said that whole weekend changed me so much, is you're physically just exhausted, mentally exhausted, and they have one evolution where they give you so much food to the point where it's, like, puke-worthy, like the amount of pancakes and potatoes and hash browns, it's disgusting. And I remember having a moment where I was eating other people's pancakes.

I wasn't thinking about anything. I was just eating, eating. I was like, I'm so hot. I'm just eating. And then they take us, they take you on hill sprints to kind of, you know, some people puke, whatever. And I remember doing the sprints and I was like, wait, that would be cute. Wait, I feel great.

I actually feel kind of strong right now. Wait, did you just eat, like, I was in my head like, wait wait you just ate like 10 pancakes that wasn't healthy that's all gluten but i feel damn good right now right i felt i just remember having that moment of wait you didn't think that whole time you ate you think about the calories you didn't think about the gluten you didn't think about the dairy you didn't think about you know the macronutrients you didn't think about it wasn't on a scale and i feel great right now wait I'm doing these sprints. About to be spec ops guys are throwing up.

And I'm one of two females still standing. I feel great. I had a moment of like, why do I feel great? I feel great right now. And that's when that was the evolution where it really clicked for me that you need to feel performance. You can't be feeling this disordered need that makes zero sense, this addiction that doesn't help you perform at all.

Because you don't need to be a world-class athlete to ride on the elliptical for an hour. But if you want to be good at these sports, like strongman events, crossfit, the tightening, you need to feel performance. Yeah. That was a major lightbulb moment where you're like, you can't fuel eating disorder and crushing awesome workouts at the same time. You got to pick one or the other basically. Correct.

Yeah. And that's why, and that was a big white light bulb for me. And that's why when people say, well, anyone that's a figure of bodybuilding, I've gotten this comment before. Hey,

what's this figure of bodybuilding shows? Like they have eating disorders, right? I was like, no, not, no, not every,

just because you figure bodies, I mean, I'm an eating disorder that your fitness, my eating disorder. If there was, we'd have massive issues in this country. There's a healthy way to do it. Now, are they eating healthy or 100% lifestyle A-OK for those couple days before the show?

Of course not. But how long are they doing it for? A week, maybe a couple couple weeks maybe a couple days versus a disordered pattern of eating you're doing it for as a lifestyle as your life yeah yeah i mean so much of it is about the why and the mental process behind what you're doing because you could look at again so much of it is subjective like a big thing in the health and fitness world right now is fasting right and there are people, seven, 30 day water fasts to other people, you're like, that is, that's literally you just making like an acceptable way to say you're starving yourself,

you're not eating at all. That's really extreme and weird. And in some cases, with the wrong mindset, that is what you're doing. But in some cases, it's a well researched, you know, means to an end, you're trying to learn something, you're trying to accomplish a specific thing, maybe you have some kind of metabolic issues, and you're looking to address it through fasting or chronic disease. And it's the same with the bodybuilding thing. I've always said, I've spoken about this experience a lot, too, that it certainly attracts disordered behaviors, because it is like you said, it's sort of like making it acceptable to be super extreme with your exercise and your eating.

It doesn't mean that everyone who does it is, but it's being very, very aware of like what you're doing, why you're doing it. Um, and, and again, it's like that tipping over into dysfunction. Like for me, I always made sure that when I was, I was prepping for a show, like it's three or four months where you have to be super strict, you have to work out. But I made sure that I like went out with people and I was social and I don't make a big deal out of like, I can't drink tonight, you just sit and you have some sparkling water with your friends because you want to go be social. And when you're done, you have to like really work very hard to not have that sort of body dysmorphia and to recognize it when it comes. And when your six pack isn't visible anymore, how you mentally deal with that. And it is a process and it is hard.

And it isn't for everybody. But again, like you look at almost any high performing athlete and their, their behaviors and training and eating is extreme to other people. So it's really just about getting super clear and supported and understanding on what you're doing why you're doing it um yeah okay so i have so much more that i want to ask you we could be here for a while um but i do so i want to ask like what happened in between because i want to talk about titan games what happened between you doing the Kokoro weekend and, like, having that, you know, life-changing weekend and deciding you wanted to move out west, and then those few years sort of between that and sort of kind of where you are over the last year, the stuff that I want to talk about, the work you're doing. What happened in between so in between I came back to New Jersey I came obsessed with the

seal fit model and what was going on I ended up going back to school because I left school to get healthy so I never finished my undergrad I spent a couple months that after the Corot that summer i reapplied to get my undergrad degree in exercise science at william patterson university i was only there for three months i just did independent study on anxiety and meditation visualization techniques and free throw percentages and got my degree and three months done got my undergrad degree started right away uh training as a straight conditioning coach i got my cscs as well that summer so i'm training as a straight conditioning coach and coaching athletes high school nfl uh with my mentor at the time still my mentor mike adango

i had a freak strength nice i had a freak strength in oakland new jersey who was another gentleman who he would love to have him on the podcast as well. That changed my life and the way he went about starting the conditioning with the NFL guys, the special guys, high school guys. And while I was still with him because I just loved what he did and the amount of things he taught me, and education-wise, knowledge-wise, even personality-wise. At that time, at the same time, I was working in Randolph, New Jersey, as a head coach in a facility. I was doing that. I'd been driven, ironically, in the middle of New Jersey.

So I was going back and forth, learning as much as I could from Mike, and everyone at Freak Strength, and then going in and coaching at another facility to make some money. At that same time, it was kind of like a year and a half, two-year span. That summer, that next summer, so I was doing that for a year, that next summer I decided that the academy, which is a week in CES with SealFit, which is kind of the longer but shorter intensive sleep version for SealFit. And then I went right into doing what they had at the time was called the basic level one cert for SealFit. which is kind of the longer but shorter intensive sleep version for SEAL Fit.

And then I went right into doing what they had at the time was called the basic level one CERT for SEAL Fit. That is where I met Dr. Gabrielle O'Live. So we were at the same event, and I remember talking to her. She said she lived in New York City. She said she wanted to get ready for Goporo. And I was like, awesome. She's like, we should do it together. We're in the same area.

So awesome. Let's do it. I had no idea the level of expertise and I knew none of that at the time. I just thought, oh, this would be a cool experience. She's really awesome. Like, all right, yeah, I'll train her for it. And started going in and out of the city as well. So that following year was working during the week. And then on the weekends, I would come out to New York City and we would train. One night, and I described it like this, it was like one cold February night where we were sitting down and we were just talking

growth, mindset, research. And she said, you know what, you need to do something more with your life. Can I challenge you here for a second? I think, I don't think you want to be a straight conditioning coach just undergrad, CSS your whole life. You're meant to do something bigger.

I know you are. How about getting a master's? Well, I would never want to get a master's because everyone told me, A, I didn't need one, and B, you can do the same thing in the master's program for strength and conditioning that you can do in the facility. I don't need to spend all this money to know if a kettlebell swing helps with X, Y, and Z. I can see it.

I can see the results. So I was like, why give a master's for that? She's like, well, how about this? And she looked up Dr. Andy Galpin in Cal State University Fullerton. And I just remember having a moment of, like, shock. Wait, you can do this? Like, you can get your master's in this? Muscle biopsies?

Like, muscle physiology? This is, I remember just being blown away. Like, this is a thing? And she saw my eyes light up, and she's like, yeah, you're going to do it. And I was like, I want to, you know, I want to do this. I didn't know. I thought, you know, I thought a master's for conditioning, again, biased want to, you know, I want to do this. I didn't know. I thought, you know, I thought a master's training, again, biased and judgment. Like, what I've been told from people in the fitness industry that, you know, for some of them, not that everyone's got their journey.

A lot of people that were telling me not to get a master's were the same people who never even got an undergraduate degree. But that's just because it wasn't for them. Just because it wasn't for them doesn't mean it's not for me. And I realized it was for me. So I flew up to California, applied, got in, went under, you know, Andy's wing. And Dr. Bias, Irene, said yes to one of the biggest research studies of Cal State Fullerton, you know, career and Andy's career so far. I ended up this past, just finished this past weekend,

but it would have been three years in July being in the lab out in California, Cal State Fullerton under, you know, Andy Galpin and Irene Tobias. And it changed my life and what I know and how I start to educate not only myself, but others and understand the research and the application of the research in terms of strength, conditioning, health, nutrition, and programming. So you just finished a lab, like a research project? Yeah, so my research project was on a protein kinase. Kinase is the Greek word meaning to move. So the name of it is called AMPK,

which activated mediated protein kinase. It's the reason why fasting got so popular, why having type 2 diabetics perform physical activity instead of take the drug metformin. AMPK was the reason why it got so popular. Life Extension even has an AMPK activator supplement, which I laugh about. Because you know how you activate AMPK? You go train.

Exercise. You go for a walk. Maybe you don't eat breakfast, then you have a little bit bigger lunch. That's how you activate ANTK. It's actually quite – it works on a whole body level. ANTK is a whole body cellular metabolism, energy. So it helps restore cells. I like to say, simplistically, it gives new life to cells.

It works everywhere in the body. It's a key regulator in energy metabolism, in cellular energy metabolism. So what I did, I took this molecule. We used APK. And for the first time ever, we looked at it in muscle tissue, in a fiber-type specific manner. So we took type 1 fibers and type 2A fibers. So slow versus fast switch. In the outside of the thigh of nine male athletes and nine female athletes.

Pre-hit training on the bike. So six rounds of spike protocol, i subjected myself to self too which was very hard it was definitely max training six rounds a minute and a half mass exertion you have the mask on you're drooling sweating like crazy two and a half minutes rest and then afterwards we did three other biopsies so at the end of the day every participant every athlete had two biopsies on the right leg two biopsiesies on the left leg. That's a lot of big holes in your quads, dude. We only take an eraser-sized amount of muscle. Okay, I was just listening to an Andy Galpin podcast recently, I don't remember which one, and he's talking about these biopsies, and he's

basically like, if you are scared of this, you're a wuss. It's just an eraser-sized piece of muscle. And I'm like, hi, excuse me. But pulling out an eraser-sized piece of muscle from my leg is mildly traumatizing, but that's fine. It's for science. I get it. But that's pretty intense. It's pretty, it is pretty painful, right? Isn't it? Tell me it's not painful. No, I agree. This is why me and Andy get along though. This is why we get along. I have a similar mindset where it's half a second. He's in there so quick. It's a means to an end. He's in there so quick. I've had six of them. My legs are fine. I actually PR'd my back squat the other day, so I think I'm fine. All right. Yeah, so it regenerates very fast.

Literally, at the end of the day, we tell every participant and athlete, you know, you might not want to go swimming or anything, but you can ride the bike in a couple hours. We want you to move. We don't want you not to move. Just don't clean a barbell the wrong way because, you know, everyone in America thinks when you clean a barbell, you clean it to your thighs when you shouldn't be anyway. So, you know, don't go hitting barbell the wrong way because you know everyone in america thinks when you clean a bar by the finish your thighs when you shouldn't be anyway so you know it's like we're hitting barbells on your thighs it's a wound just like anything else but you're fine you can train later

on that day a couple of the female athletes who clearly were more badass than the males usually yeah squat is the same squat is heavy that same day of doing all those biopsies. So what are some of the findings or results that, and try to, you know, dumb it down as much as you can, but what are some things that you discovered that can help your coaching and training and can help us normal people? Yeah. So I would love to tell you all the extreme details in as simple a fashion as possible except because of irb you're not allowed i'm not allowed to say anything until we publish it in august but what i can say is that we are publishing it very soon thankfully because my research was that of a phd student i had to a biomechanist and about chemist, excuse me, and Irene, and then Andy in muscle physiology. I had the blessing of two PhDs.

So we're going to be able to publish this thing very early, especially because it's so novel. And it's the first ever study on female athletes in this capacity. It's the first ever, ever. So that was what was crazy, is the lack of research on females. It's disgusting, actually. So we're going to publish it in August. But what I can tell you is the significant difference between male and females when it comes to what this research

has suggested in our nutrient timing windows. Interesting. So there is a huge difference between male and females, but no one's looked at the time course. No one's looked at what happens immediately post-exercise, what happens 90 minutes after, what happens 180 minutes after. Every study to this point has only done two biopsies. One right before a rest, and then a zero minute, one directly after resistance training or directly after on the bike or rounds on the treadmill.

No one's, and it was crazy when I was looking through the literature that every single study was the same thing. Rest, zero minute. No one's looking at what happens, though, because we know there's some sort of anabolic window. We don't really know what that is. People pretend that it's within 30 minutes, but we know it's pretty much not now. But what is the range, and what know it's pretty much not now.

But what is the range, and what is the difference between males and females, and that's what this study was so interesting to see, is how biologics be different. We are just between genders, and how we prescribe that now to our athletes and our clients. Okay, I am going to be eagerly awaiting August,

then. You're going to have to let us know when we can all read this. I'll send it right on, I'll be posting it. It'll probably go, like, it's going to be eagerly awaiting August then you're gonna have to let us know when we can all read this I'll send it right on I'll be posting it will probably go like uh yeah because and he's pretty excited himself and yeah it's and I mean you're what you're saying too about how little research is done for female athletes when we're talking nutrition and training and like all the stuff that you're doing it's it's shameful really and I think that it's something that has to just, it has to almost stop being like, congratulations and good for you for including women athletes in a study. It should be like, this is standard. We need to include both men and women. So hopefully this is like a taste of what's to come because we're being completely left out of the conversation

over and over again. Or we're just like, like well i guess we just have to follow whatever the male prescription is because that's all that's available to us and that's not really acceptable anymore and and our lab is the only lab to now the last few years that we're the only lab in the country to have two studies on female athletes we did have strength and power athletes with you know with weightlifting team and then we have my study and we're gonna we're starting another study this summer the new grad students are i just saw their proposal everything they're working away and they're going to do the same model as i i did my as myself did except with m4 looking at protein synthesis and resistance training and then with the variable of trained individuals that are fasting and training those that are not fasting cool well it'll be a lot of

variables in that this next one that they're taking on but the reason it's so hard for females is and it's because we have menstrual cycles and we have to biopsy every female during their menstrual cycle because that's when they're most similar to men so a lot of again the other issue is that a lot of these researchers like andy are males and to have to ask those questions and deal with that scheduling it's why it took two and a half years to get all nine females okay that's really interesting i mean first of all it's like let's get past that. I understand what you're saying, but like, oh, it's awkward to ask women if they're menstruating. It's like, get over it. Okay. Because we need to figure this out. Yeah, exactly. It's like, we all know we do it. It's not a, yeah, it's not a secret.

I also think it's very interesting that when we are, when we're on our period is when we're the most like men, which is interesting. You could make some jokes about like, that's also when we're the most like annoying and emotional and aggressive. That also happens to be when we're the most like men. It's kind of interesting. Like men every day. Yeah, exactly. It's hilarious. Okay. So with this, this massive research project that you did and you just completed, so congratulations. That's a big deal. Is that something that now you want to continue and spend more time doing that? Or is it sort of like you took this experience and you're applying it to the coaching and the work you're doing? Do you want to stay in the lab? Or is this just like that was kind of a, an exercise and now you're moving on. Yeah, I think I learned a lot about myself, and this is why I'll say the people I keep in my circle, I keep in my circle because they know me at times better than I know myself. Gabriel definitely knew me in that moment when he just set off to say,

you need to work in a lab and do this work. Because essentially it was like med school meets strength and conditioning. Let's combine the two. And I learned really quickly, and I was in such a high-stress state for so long, how much I do not like lab setting in the sense of all the pipetting, all the gels and everything.

I definitely am going to be taking this experience and applying it in all the research and all the tactics I learned in looking at research and all the connections I've made and now now applying it to my career with strength conditioning, with training athletes and clients, and working my presence in an educational piece, and now I even train myself and others. On the flip side, that also opened my eyes to the fact that, you know what? I still don't keep my eyes on the PhD route, but I know myself mentally, and I know I need the years off and spend the time now applying this new knowledge that I just crammed so hard for over two and a half years.

And getting back, now being back out in the field, this new life, being back on the field now. New mental state, new physical state education new experience now i i know i've never understood why the path of going from phd to phd phd masters masters because then you never understand the real world you just understand the academic side so my big thing is going back into the world first and you know what i've had this conversation with Gabrielle, with Andy, with multiple people numerous times. If it ends up that life is going great and I'm just setting home, you know, everything I want to do, tacking this all those corners without going back to school or out being in the lab, then I'm totally fine with that.

Yeah. But if there comes a point where, you know what, I want to push myself in a different light and go get a PhD or maybe go work in a lab, well, when the time comes, I'll do that. But I'm definitely not going to rush that process because for me mentally, I'm such an application person. I can't wait to be working with people again in that way. I mean, I think you need off seasons for that,

the intensity of that learning environment too. Like I'm with you. I got, I was, I did my undergrad. I had like six years or something before I went back and got a master's because I was feeling the call to go and learn more in that environment. And then when that was done, I was like, I don't want to learn a thing for a little while. I want to go like live my life and use it.

So yeah, I totally understand what, what that's like. But so, so now is your, your full time focus and job is with your coaching and training. Correct. Okay.

And is that done? You're on the, you're on the West coast. Is it all in person? Is some of it remote? How does that work? It's both. So I have an online principle I created.

I'm actually re-updating my website as we speak, but I do have my website with programs, online coaching. I've worked with a lot of people remotely. I have a couple clients getting ready for powerlifting meets that I'm working, you know, athletes that I work with getting ready for powerlifting meets. I work with two street skateboarders getting getting them ready for the Olympic Games, street skating, new sport in Japan 2020.

So I definitely want to stay out in California, especially for them. So everything I do, obviously, in person will then be in Southern California. But it's not to say I'm not going to start, I'm not going to continue to do this stuff remotely and online. That's why I created the website as a simplistic way for people to not only contact or reach out to me, but to learn. My big thing is we always have a personal connection first before we go any further. I don't know. Face-to-face, quote-unquote, FaceTime, how are you reacting to my questions?

You know, are you going to be in this for the long term, or do you just want a four-week, you know, body pump template? Yeah. Which is something I feel very strongly about for myself not offering, because I want people that want to work with me and not just want to buy a program and never talk to me. Yeah, you can offer more. So why not? I mean, there's a million online, like teach you how to count your macros and do some HIIT workouts three times a week. That's already out there, but you can offer something that's different. So yeah. Yeah. That's my big thing.

So how many, like how many, um, clients or people can you work with at a time? If you've got this influx of... I get the sense that you like the challenge of different athletes and different kinds of goals that they have. That's kind of good for you, right? You get to work with skaters. You're doing all kinds of different things. How many can you work with at a time? What does your workday look like?

Right now, it's a lot on the laptop. It's a lot on the laptop. I actually do a lot of work laptop, phone. I would put it this way. I train for about an hour in the morning, and then eight to ten hours I'm on the laptop because, again, i will start developing kind of templates for myself but i work with so many different athletes that i have to go the hand the old school excel route because i have so many different elements i'm working with i'm working

on making that a little more streamlined for me because it shouldn't be eight to ten hours i'm on a laptop because right now i'm working with uh 12. And even that right now, I'm saying to myself, you know what, we need to start taking this on more of a business approach. Still having that human connection, but having the business approach in the sense that it's more streamlined for me. So that the hours I'm putting in are more effective for myself. But still just as effective as if I was spending eight to 10 hours a day working on each person. And then at night I train usually either jiu-jitsu or strike game for me at 10 at night. And so that part's interesting to me because I love that.

I'm like a huge MMA fan. I've been on and off doing jiu-jitsu and boxing myself. It's like my favorite sport to watch, to participate in. I love it. I think it's like the perfect mix of like you're learning you're getting strong it's body awareness but there's so much mental um aspect to it too it's like chess but with your body jiu-jitsu it's like I love it so much what got you into that is it just like you were drawn to it or you do you want to compete like what what are what are your plans for that yeah i have actually had three fights amateur mma or or what mma okay yeah yeah and you uh go on

youtube you search karen killian fight uh my first fight comes up right away on youtube i broke the girl's eye sockets that was fun oh fuck okay i'm i know what i'm doing this afternoon yeah totally zero technique i took uh my coach had me take on the fight a month into training uh but it's always been something and he had his reasons which i understood afterwards because he was like yeah you have the intangible if you wanted to do this professionally you could uh which was crazy for me to hear because i thought you know being a professional athlete was kind of an over thing, but I realized that it can always be a now thing just based on my experience and just my love for sport.

It kind of was a weird situation because one day I was walking on the beach. I was working at the time for bands on the medical staff working in the U.S. Open, and this lady came up to me and she said, Oh, you have great legs. They're talking to me about hormones. And she said know you look like an mx fighter how come you don't fight i said well in new jersey like i did some muay thai like you know i grew up watching my brother wrestle but it's not really a thing on the east coast she's like let me make a call can you be available tomorrow at metroflex gym in long beach at eight o'clock at night it It was like two years ago. I was like, yeah, sure.

Okay. And so next day I had this like sparring slash, you know, striking interview, so to speak. Fry out, yeah. Yeah, fry out. I had no idea what I was doing. Sweating my butt off. I was, you know, my teammate at the time,

I'm still very good friends with Chaney swimming through some drills and she was already pro at the time he comes up to me afterwards and says nothing it says nothing other than this you're on the team

practice is from 10 to 12 every day here you're on you're on team body shop I have never heard of someone being scouted to be an MMA fighter

like on the street like hey nice legs you want to do MMA? What? It's such a weird, and that's kind of, it seems to me most of my life, like, this weird kind of universal situation that you can't explain. Like, it just sounds silly. Like, it just, it all started with someone complimenting me,

and it just turned into this, you know, which is why, you know, when I say, when I tell people I make sure you call them in as much as possible because you never know where it's going to lead yeah yeah not only because it might make them smile but you never know who you're talking to but I yeah I mean I think it's about like people in situations like that people outside of it can be like oh you were lucky like you were just at the right place at the right time and this person noticed you and you had this conversation I don't really believe in that. I think that people who are putting themselves out there in the world and are willing to

say yes to stuff that seems a little bit scary or foreign, or they're not maybe ready for, they don't know anything about and still being willing to hear people and listen to people and try things. I think those people are the lucky ones who just happen to end up in situations like that because they put themselves in situations like that. It's like the people who are sitting at home on the couch on the Internet and like shaking their head at all these lucky people who get to go on the Titan Games and get to do X, Y, Z. It's like, well, are you out there trying to do those kinds of things? And I know that it's easier said than done, but it starts with small steps, right?

Like it starts with. There is no, I never believed in luck and I never understood it. Yeah. Because everything in your life is preparing for something, but if you don't continually prepare and put yourself out there, then the opportunities will never protect themselves. That's it. But there's no luck involved. You've been preparing for these moments, but someone finally just gave you the opportunity. But the opportunities will come,

and if you're prepared, you'll take them on. If you're not prepared, you won't, and there's no luck. It's not, I hate when people say life's a gamble. It's not a gamble. You're either doing it or not doing it. You're either all in it or not. And I guess that's why I love the balance. You're going to definitely have that all-or-nothing mindset. It's either you want to do it, and you're going to train for it, or people talk in the sense of going back to ESR. it's either you want to do it and you're going to train for it or people talking sense of going back to ESR. Do you want to get healthy or you

don't? No one's going to tell you otherwise. Trust me. No one's going to tell you. If you don't want to get healthy, you will not get healthy. Yeah. Yeah. And it's about every experience being a learning experience. And like, that sounds like a cliche and it sounds corny, but it's because it is accurate. You know, like everything you went through, as you said, if you had a super easy time your entire life, do you think you'd be where you are right now? And right. And like, and I don't think that people like some people might be like, well, I haven't had that kind of adversity. How am I ever going to be successful? It's like, put yourself in places of adversity, put yourself into challenges. If you were a lucky person who grew up without any health problems and without

any issues, and you had a perfect family who loved you, like congratulations, but also go learn a new sport, go to get your master's degree, go do something that puts yourself in these challenging, uncomfortable situations. Cause that's how you grow. And I think that you've obviously you've, you've been put in those situations against your will and you've chosen to put yourself in those situations And that's why you're where you are, you know Yeah, I find I always get that

Taking I would get taken back when I hear people have the parents are never divorced perfect family went to church drugs are bad Never drank I was it really nervous around people Don't understand it. I don't want to be near them because I'm like usually those people, I'm not saying everyone it does depend but usually those are the people that have the very closed mindset and think that you should never have anything

you should have never done anything wrong, there's nothing well those people have never been like forced to think outside of that way, they've never been faced with it, you know, it's like the you know, hypocrites who are telling other people what to do with their bodies or whatever. We don't want to get too political, but it's like, yeah, if you haven't ever experienced something,

how are you going to speak to it or understand it? Yeah, everyone should be on the ketogenic diet. No, thanks. Life's way too short for that shit. Sorry, Andy, but... I love having that. Yeah, it's so great. Okay, so are you going to keep fighting?

What's up? Am I going to see you on Bellator or UFC at some point? A lot of my teammates are Bellator pros. That's what's funny. That's the blessing of Southern California for you right there, is having those as teammates. It's one thing that, you know, again, Gabrielle absolutely hates me mentioning it she's like you're not fighting like no one wants me to fight but

again if i want to fight i'm gonna fight and i definitely am not going to leave i definitely don't want to leave uh without having another fight because i love it as a hobby. Now, I hate saying the word hobby, because my ego and my pride wants to say, I'm going to spend the next five years of my life only training MMA, and I want to go pro. Trust me, I've had this battle with myself mentally since I moved out to California, and it's all happened. But right now, I'm enjoying the process of learning and training,

because it is such a puzzle piece. It is such a hard sport, and because I haven't been in it since I was 10, like some of these, most of my teammates, I still have so much to learn and I want to do it the right way. So if that means I have to wait another year to take on a fight because I need to do, I want to be so primed. Or if that means I need to take on a fight in June, just to feel that fire again, to pick myself back into it because I spent the last

year and a half off just training because the grad school hours and I just couldn't train the same we'll see you know I'm not gonna put a price on what I've done currently or what I'm gonna do and I know that I've worked so hard just keep yourself open to it yeah but I'm keeping myself open I don't like closing doors to something like that especially even when it comes to the PhD route like a lot of people say you don't need a PhD

go this route, start streamlining this I've got a lot of like the Don Saladinos of the world give me a lot of good information and I think about it constantly. But that part of me, at least that little, you know, it's a little child who wants to come out and play is like, man, no, I just want to drop everything, just fight full time. Yeah, the little child inside of you that wants to break people's eye sockets, you know,

that little child. Well, listen, Gabrielle. But also remember that that is also a part of me that, you know, has healed a lot. And let's not take everything we just earned mentally over the last couple years and just say, forget it. None of that matters because I have this new possibly professional opportunity. I don't want to forget that either. So I want to keep myself humble in the sense of knowing how bad my ego and pride can get if I don't want to forget that either. So I want to keep myself humble in the sense of knowing what, how bad my ego and pride can get if I don't tame it.

I mean, I think the fact that you're even framing this, this possible opportunity in the way that you are shows how much you've learned right over through your past experiences. And like Gabrielle, you can get mad at me all you want, but I totally support you if you decide to be a professional fighter, because I don't know. It just like, I am so in love with it.

I'm so in love with the sport. And I just, it, it was hugely influential to the sport and the world when women MMA fighters came onto the like mainstream scene and they were, you know, they were in Invicta, I guess, for a long time. And when UFC brought them on and it was such a just incredible empowering I can't say enough about how important I think that was for men and women because women were seeing that we were on par like we were equal in the sport in terms of our capability and our capacity and how entertaining it is and how they were able to sell fights and things like that and I think it

was good for men to see it too because there is a a lot of still in the, in the, in the world of sport, like we're obviously still very segregated for a lot of reasons and whatever, that's a different conversation, but there's a lot about like, oh, well, women's sport isn't as entertaining in some cases, or they can't, they can't perform the way men can. And like people only like women's volleyball, cause they happen to be naked, not because they're actually performing it as well. And, and seeing, I mean, from a clinical eye, from a professional eye that women,

MMA fighters can perform at or better than their male counterparts, I think has been really like a really good learning experience for men and women watching it and competing. Oh yeah. A hundred percent. It's a, it was a blessing how that, how it came about.

I don't have to pay to train between Tracy, my coach at Affliction. Being at Affliction headquarters between that and with Antonio McKee and Body Shop, I mean it's like one of those dreams you can't you're like, is this real? I was just in a music video with Buck Cherry just

because they wanted a female fighter. Yeah, a chick who looks badass. You're like, check. I got that. And I just remember being like, is this real life? Like, I mean, this is cool. Like, this is just funny. I just kept laughing.

This is just funny to me. Like, this is what happened. Like, not to say every state has its thing, but California is just funny like that. But again, you know, it goes back to like, you're, you're putting yourself out. You're like putting yourself out into the world in a way that people are responding to it. Um, okay.

So I don't want to keep you too much longer. We could definitely talk all day. We're going to have to do a part two when I'm in New York next and you are, we, we got to make this happen. We got to get like the bad-ass woman workout. Gabrielle might bring her baby at that point, but we'll figure it out.

Yeah. We're going to have a little drive for 95. Yeah. I love it. I love might bring her baby at that point, but we'll figure it out. Yeah, we'll go to a little drive, $4.95. Yeah, I love it. I love it. Okay, but I do, I have to ask you about the Titan Games, obviously, because this kind of just finished too, right? Like, wasn't this just this past winter? Yep, this past winter. Okay.

It ended up in the end of February, early April. Okay, so tell me how you got involved in that. It was a joke. It started off as a huge I don't have cable television and sorry NBC definitely not your whatever it's I don't have cable television I wasn't even I didn't really I have Netflix but I never watch it unless it's a documentary about some weird thing basketball probablyball, probably. Yeah, basketball or like Roddy Coleman. That one was intense. That documentary was so intense. Very intense.

So my friend, who again was my teammate out in Sliprock, she's an LAPD officer in LA, of course. She sent me one day in April, last April, sent me a voicemail, a text, an email with a link and another voicemail. I didn't answer because I was in the lab.

I just listened to the voice and said, Kara, you have five days. You're perfect for this show. You need to apply. You need to do this right now. You're perfect. Just look at the link at least. I know you don't want to do it, but just look at the link.

I called her back. I looked at the link. I was like, Dwayne Johnson. I was like, no, I'm not doing this nbc no so this is stupid you know how many people and i'm you know very much a realist in the sense of you know i just kept saying you know how many fans of duane and wd fans people paying the hundreds of dollars for his sneakers and headphones fanboys girls are gonna apply the show're going to pick those crazy people. They're not going to pick me.

So I did not take it seriously whatsoever. I applied after the deadline. So I don't even know how my application went through, quite frankly. My two-minute video was me. I was like, oh, they're looking at fitness, so this will be funny. I literally jump-rope deadlifts while talking about myself. Didn't edit it, just sent it off. I just said, F this, sent it off.

I was like, I'll never hear about this again. This was a waste of my Saturday. And all of a sudden, a month later, I get a call. I'm like, oh, there's a 99% chance people off these dates for a combine in July. I was like, what's 99? I'm like, you sure? They're like, well, actually, okay. And they gave me, a week later, they called me again.

Another producer. There's like 40 producers, I feel like. you sure? They're like, well, actually, okay. And they gave me, a week later they called me again, another producer. There's like 40 producers, I feel like. Called me again. You really need to block off these dates for this combine. We're pretty sure we're going to select you. We're going to select your videos. I was like, you probably said that to everybody. No.

And then they called me again. I was like, okay, fine. What dates? So I was supposed to go home that weekend for my yearly crossfit competition with a couple of my buddies in South Jersey. Canceled those to do this combine. Got to the combine. There were still 300 people to choose from for this show. I remember getting into Burbank and thinking to myself, I just wasted my whole weekend.

I'm not going home for five days to see family and enjoy my Jersey Shore because you told me there's 99... No. And I was seeing CrossFit Games athletes rolling in. I was seeing... I was like, you've got to be kidding me. There is no...

Why? I mean, I kind of felt like they were lying anyway, but I was like, you've got to be kidding me. There is no, you lied. I mean, I kind of felt like they were lying anyway, but I was like, didn't see, think 300 people lied. So we did this combine, which is pretty silly, of like deadlifts, Abuse Max, which really just meant going to trouble with a heart rate monitor, a little obstacle course, American Angel Warrior bars, and

a 15-minute interview. Was so pissed that week, and I was like, wow, I just wasted, there's no way I'm on the show. On the day before I birthed it, August 7th last year, I got a call. And they played it off great, as they did with everyone, apparently. We all talked about it afterwards, like, the call. And they basically said to me, like, that's it, you're on the show. Keep locked off these weeks in September, we're filming.

I was like, you've got to be kidding me i was like nowhere in my wildest dreams that i think that when i saw the ladies and the ladies that were in for that for the show it's like there's no way these girls like are more ripped than me they're like some of them are crossfit games athletes some of them are you know a million followers on Instagram and, like, professional fitness models. I'm like, I got 10,000 followers on Instagram, and I don't even, you know, care about it. These people are, like, talking about sponsorships. I'm sponsored by this company. Who are you sponsored by? I'm like, I'm not sponsored by anyone. Like, I'm in grad school. So were you excited, though? Or were you like, oh, shit, now I have to do this? No, I was super excited. I was grad school. So were you excited though? Or were you like, oh shit, now I have to do this? No, I was super excited.

I was super excited. So when I got into that arena for the show and started filming, I realized why my whole life was set up the way it was. In the sense of why the way I went to rock bottom the way it did. It kind of came full circle in the sense that i love that environment i feed i like it fills me up so much like give me all the cameras give me the arena give me the people cheer me on like i'm so calm and so alive and it's to me it's like heaven and that's why i realized oh shit this makes sense why i felt some type of way through what I went through,

because I just love the experience of being an athlete. I love the experience of when the camera's on, you show up. I love that mindset. And I'll always love that mindset. You have a new reason for you to join the UFC, Kara. Because I'm helping people out with anxiety that were also a show for, you know, challenges. And then we were here like you just look

focused and fun I'm like yeah it's just cameras this is fun like I was having a ball okay yeah when it's locked in you're locked in which some people thought I was a bitch because of it which was another funny story and I was like well I'm not exactly gonna be laughing when I'm about to you know move or go home like I'm not exactly gonna be. I'm in game time. But I just love it. It was an amazing experience. And Dwayne Johnson is literally, like, talking to your uncle. Yeah, I mean, you were talking about, like, fans, like, super fans who were coming on just to, like, look at The Rock.

Like, that's me 100%. Like, I grew up with brothers, too. I watched wrestling. I have been in love with him. Like, when my girlfriends were in love with, like, I don't know, Leonardo DiCaprio back when he was super pretty. Like, I've been in love with The Rock since he was on TV. So I'm like, how is a cool dude like you friends with The Rock now?

That's pretty badass. And I was in love with Usher when I was that age. I was an Usher person. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, for some reason. We can't explain what we like when we're teenagers. Like, you know. Anyway. I was obsessed with Usher. Confessions album oh it was good oh so good but yeah he was for the amount that

as hard as he works the amount of money he's wasting time magazine is number one in all since what in front of people he is such a and this i think speaks to and i even though we're only i was fortunate to make far enough to be there the whole three weeks of filming, and I just got a.01% glimpse into the reality of what it's like to be cameras all the time with a celebrity. And just that one glimpse told me all I need to know about how mentally strong, how great of a dude Dwayne is. The fact that he keeps his shit together 24-7 and makes the money that he does with the amount of fans he has that ghoul and gaw and cry over him is

and I said this to Carrie Champion in one of the interviews but of course they only had so much air time. Just about his specialness of character. Because it speaks so highly to how special he is as a gentleman and as a human Because you do not it's such a rarity and especially celebrities nowadays

whether you're a celebrity via LeBron James in sport or in acting and WD like Dwayne It blew my mind how real he was like I you would never if I didn't know who Dwayne Johnson was, I really had a lot of moments after the couple times I talked to him, had a lot of moments where I was like, oh, wait, I just talked to Dwayne Johnson.

You're that super famous movie star, yeah. I mean, it's very hard for a super famous person to be normal. Like, you almost have to, like, have a little bit of empathy for it.

Because like you said, I mean, there are people who think that they're the best thing since sliced bread because they have 25,000 followers on Instagram when that really, in a lot of cases, means nothing, you know, and then think about somebody who, like you said, is making the most money of anybody in Hollywood has done a billion different things is universally loved. Like, how does a person like that stay grounded? It's incredible. I mean, you probably got to give a lot to, again, his upbringing and what he went through and what he sort of...

I speak a lot to that, yeah. Yeah. But I mean, I'm sure his family that he has around him now and stuff, people that can keep him sort of grounded. But yeah, that's got to be a huge challenge for people like that to stay like tethered to what is normal in life because you are not living a normal life at all. No, no, no. Part of your part of your life is normal. And people always want to seek out fame, whether it's in fitness modeling, being a model.

And yeah, there was two models that were on our show. I see the life they lead. And I got to know them a little bit and how sad it is in some regards like they have to leave being a fitness model. And it just gives you so much empathy for how they keep their cool and how, you know, they're able to live their lives in their true self. I mean, I totally understand 2007 Britney Spears. Right? Like, it totally makes sense. I'm like, oh, you know what, girl, I feel you now.

I get it. Yeah. Like, I totally understand that's some britney but how duane does what he does is i mean he's just like i can't the only way i can put it is you were talking just like we're talking yeah except he's got 400 million plus dollars yeah yeah it's crazy so was the was the show actually super physically challenging? Like, did you enjoy it? How was it? No? Mount Olympus? Mount Olympus was physically challenging because there were so many components. And I wish, my biggest wish was that they did something similar to Mount Olympus, where it was a little bit longer and there was a lot more challenges, once we all got to the semifinals.

But they went back to the same challenges as the first couple rounds. Because the first couple rounds, just like the one-on-one challenges that were just in the middle of the arena that were only a couple minutes long, those weren't super physically challenging if you had the right one. So the one where I wish I had the one

smashing the Atlas Stone, which I know they didn't choose me because when we did the combine, they had us use a sledgehammer, and I'm pretty sure I had the one smashing the Atlas stone which I know they didn't choose me because when we did the combine they had us use a sledgehammer and I was pretty sure I was the only one that slammed it the right way let's not give her the easy one for her because everyone was slamming it

almost to the point where I was questioning life have you ever ever done hard work? chop chop, like chopping little lettuce? Like it's a big swing people. And so they never I wish they gave them never gave up. But that one was actually really physically challenging. We got to, you know, try this. But the ones I actually did on the show, besides Mount Olympus weren't physically

challenging. How far did you get? Because I don't have a TV either. So unfortunately, I don't I don't watch I kept in touch with the show because it looked get? Because I don't have a TV either, so unfortunately, I don't watch. I kept in touch with the show because it looked cool, but I didn't get to watch it all. You can actually see it for free online at NBC.com. Yeah? Okay. Alright, I'm going to do some more research. I got to the semifinals. I ended up losing to

the girl who won the whole show. Okay. I watched it like game film the way I lost because it was very specific that forced me to so and it was I watched it like game film the way I lost because it was very I just think very specific that forced me to you know that caused my defeat but that in itself is life and it you lose you lose you move on and you just learn from it so what other opportunities do you feel besides sort of some of that learning about how

you like to perform and how you like to compete and, you know, meeting Uncle Dwayne, like what other things did you, did you, what, what did you gain from that experience? What are you getting from that experience now? Yeah, the biggest thing I gained from the Titan Games experience was my love and my ability to stay calm in the chaos. That as many people as I saw, you saw the worst and the best in everybody. And I realized that being on a platform, being surrounded by the right support, I'm always at my best.

When the cameras are on, I see I'm at my best. I don't seem to be phased. And it's a weird phenomenon in the sense that it just solidified for me for the rest of my life that I have to keep attacking that light and attacking that presence because I know that I'm going to be my authentic self. And this is not for everybody. I know a lot of people that are like, I can't.

I don't like to do podcasts. I don't want to be on TV you know I just get things it's okay to be nervous that means you're excited but when it turns into a demon or a negative but for me it's such a natural state to be in that place and it's so authentic to me that I'm it became a catalyst what I learned from the time games is this should be my catalyst to know that i should continue to seek opportunities that put me in that light showcase who i really am continually and to show people how much i i care about the team effort i care about you know the ultimate goal in humanity, which is to have optimal health. Now, I think optimal is a very broad word because really what is optimal, but to help people, individuals and teams seek that fitness and education and continual knowledge and the right support systems.

And continue to put myself in a situation, this is the first time I've ever been on national TV, of course. So maybe it's not national on another national TV show, but maybe it's in a light of doing masterminds or traveling the world speaking or having my own YouTube channel. Those are all things I've started to think about since the show. You're at your best when you're putting yourself out there like that. So let's continue to put ourselves out there. When you hide, I know for myself, when I hide, that's when I'm at my worst. When I'm present, like we are right now, like I'm

going to be in South Africa when I'm doing talks. I'm at my absolute authentic best that whole entire day. So why not continue to seek those opportunities? love that I think that's a good place to end so that we can both go um I don't know eat and pee and stuff because we've been talking a lot but that you're you're at your best when you put yourself out there I think is like the common sort of message from this entire talk and it's what you live you you walk it and talk it so I mean all I can say is thank you like this has been amazing I've learned a lot and uh you have an amazing story and you're you're super inspiring so I really appreciate you sharing it today and we're gonna have to do a part two oh I appreciate you so much

Ashley thank you so much for having me on Muslim Avian Radio with yourself and we're definitely gonna connect further for sure yeah and uh when you get back from south africa and make your way back to new york maybe we can like have a role you can teach me some things um yeah let's do it yeah teach me how to break out sockets yeah if you're in southern california uh uc gym collection headquarters body shop i got two gis amazing or no g i i actually i've only trained no gi i literally just bought a gi because i'm like i guess i need to like start i need to start like being real about this thing but i kind of prefer no gi i don't know you'll i really do not like you but i have them but i prefer no gi because mma there's you're not wearing gi anyway yeah yeah it's more fun all right so remind our listeners

where if they want to learn more about what you're doing and maybe work with you, where should they go online? Yeah, so on Instagram, I'm at killerk0. It's killer with one L, because my middle name is Killian. On online, I have a website. It's just www.karrickkillian.com. And then Facebook, karrickkillian.com. And then Facebook, Carrick Killian was asking us. But I'm primarily, you message me anytime on Instagram or via my website.

I'm very quick to reply and very active on especially the Instagram and website. Awesome. All right. And we'll put that in the show notes too so people can find you. Awesome. Thank you so much for your time. Have fun in south africa i will have fun at home all right guys that's it i hope you're inspired to go out and

crush your workouts and your goals and get rid of those excuses because we all have them and they're not helping us um as always if you enjoyed the podcast please send me a message on instagram at the muscle maven tag shrug collective, take a screenshot, tag us all say hi, and just share the love and join me next week. I am speaking with another strength and nutrition coach. Her name is Steph Gaudreau. And I've been a fan of hers for a long time ever since she used to go by the name stupid easy paleo and she has since rebranded and expanded but we're going to talk about body dysmorphia, about overcoming the debilitating fear of not feeling good enough, about women ditching diet culture, and being willing to kind of take up space and be more instead of less. So I'm excited about it. She's

super inspirational. If you don't follow her, you should. I'm going to ask her also about lifting and jujitsu because she's awesome at both. So this is going to be a great conversation. Please join me next week. And as always, thank you for listening.