Barbell Shrugged - Normalize Boners: How to Optimize Testosterone w/ Ali Gilbert, Anders Varner, Doug Larson, and Coach Travis Mash Barbell Shrugged #603

Episode Date: August 18, 2021

A two-time Golf Digest Top 50 Golf-Fitness Professional & Trainer, Ali Weingroff has become highly sought after for her unique approach to training that combines nutrition, training, and lifestyle hacks to alter body composition and optimize metabolism.   Ali found her passion in optimizing men’s and women’s health working alongside industry-leading medical practitioners building an authoritative network to empower men and women with the proper understanding of what true health optimization is. She has founded AliWeingroff.com (formerly Ali-Gilbert.com), offering remote + local consulting + training services, as well as Metabolic Golf, the world’s most effective golf fitness training program.   In this Episode of Barbell Shrugged:   Testosterone’s effect on sexual health Why morning erections are so important Misconceptions about TRT and exogenous testosterone How to naturally optimize testosterone What is the best way to increase testosterone without steroids   Ali Gilbert Website   Ali Gilbert Instagram   Anders Varner on Instagram   Doug Larson on Instagram   Coach Travis Mash on Instagram   ————————————————   Diesel Dad Mentorship Application: https://bit.ly/DDMentorshipApp   Diesel Dad Training Programs: http://barbellshrugged.com/dieseldad   Training Programs to Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/34zcGVw   Nutrition Programs to Lose Fat and Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/3eiW8FF   Nutrition and Training Bundles to Save 67%: https://bit.ly/2yaxQxa   Please Support Our Sponsors   Organifi - Save 20% using code: “Shrugged” at organifi.com/shrugged BiOptimizers Probitotics - Save 10% at bioptimizers.com/shrugged

Shrugged family, this week on Barbell Shrugged, we are talking to Allie Gilbert and we're talking about testosterone. Guess what? You're going to hear things about boners in this show. So if you are not an adult, be prepared for the fact that we're going to be talking about male hormones, male erections, things like that. We're all adults here, I think, and I hope you enjoy the show. It's super informative.

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or forward slash shrugged where you can save 20%. Organifi.com forward slash shrugged save 20% on the green red and gold juices let's get into the show right on welcome to Barbell Shrugged my name is Anders Varner coach Travis Smash Doug Larson is having some internet troubles and he's out hanging out with his parents he's literally in his parents basement right now trying to figure out how to get onto this show because today we are talking to ali gilbert and if there's like one person who has the greatest instagram there he is look at that timing doug larson just popped in here right now gosh uh your instagram literally says normalized boners which has to be the number one thing that we talk about right now because I got a brand new baby. We do it?

Yeah, we're in, buddy. You're in. You just showed up right to the intro. Normalize boners because I have a 44-day-old baby, and I'm sleeping less than ever. So a boner would be considered not normal in my life right now. I would say that I have not enough sleep to achieve that feat of life. Maybe it's not that bad, but how'd you get into talking about boners? Like what, how is, how are you the only one that really writes boner in their Instagram profile? Right. It's funny. Right.

Cause, and then I, I'm a female too. So it's funny right because and then i i'm a female too so it's like yo what's going on like when i stepped on stage at nsca the other week i was like i know what you're thinking like what is this woman going to teach me about my erection and yeah i don't know they're like what um they're excited yeah they got excited. I didn't really physically look, but I'm assuming, you know. Yeah. Exciting topic. But, you know, the short answer of it is through golf fitness. So I have a strength and conditioning background.

As we talked off air, I went to Springfield College and majored in exercise science. And everybody wants to train athletes. As you know, it's a highly saturated market. And I was like, all right, well, they can't really afford training. And, you know, being a collegiate strength coach, you don't make a ton of money as I learned in my internship and everything. And growing up in Greenwich, Connecticut, you're just around money being thrown everywhere. And we had a place. Yeah, we had nine golf clubs in greenwich and i was like golf is a cool sport like that's becoming popular because tiger woods and stuff so i was

like i want to learn about it it's very scientific and people who play golf are like so driven type a and obviously mostly men and men and then greenwich. Yeah. In Greenwich. So you have like the wall street type a, and they are more drawn to doing golf fitness versus women. Like women don't care so much about golf fitness. And so then I started training all these guys and I was like, all right, well, I'm now learning that guys are not really, you know, being fed the correct information when it comes to their health, because you guys know you don't go to the doctor unless it's an emergency. They are also not aware of a lot of the, you know, myths surrounding hormone optimization and nutrition and stuff like that. So I was like, this is a freaking awesome niche. And I had a business coach who was like, run with this, like, yeah, meet that and go. So I kind of started focusing and learning everything I could

attended medical conferences, spoke at a medical conference is the only fit pro that was weird. You know, just built relationships with doctors. And here we are. Yeah, boners now on the internet. I love that. Um, when you think think, so obviously we have to get past like the sexual function of the boner. What does the boner mean in like your overall health profile? Like why is that? I notice that if I'm actually getting good sleep, not these last 44 days, but in a normal life where I don't have a brand new baby. If I sleep really well, I wake up with one.

If I sleep like crap, I don't. So there has to be some sort of correlation between my morning boner and my overall health because sleep is so important. This is the greatest podcast ever. How do you talk about boners intelligently? Right. I love it. No,

you don't. You just have fun with it. Yeah. Roll. Like, I don't know. People tell me I have a way of diffusing the awkwardness around it. I do.

I'm all for it. You know, how to talk about it, but it's funny. You bring that up because new fathers will have lower testosterone levels as, as you know, cause you, this is your second yeah for about a year and it's like this evolutionary thing you know you can't recreate elsewhere and all that and spread the seed but also the lack of sleep because there is a massive connection you know if you guys sleep like it's five hours or less they've done

studies it will deplete testosterone around 20%, which is significant amount if you're doing that over and over and over and over. And so testosterone is one only one part of the function of a boner. There are other areas that support that blood flow and stress and all that stuff. So when I talk about this, it's usually the signal of health for guys to have morning wood, as it is for females to have a healthy menstrual cycle. So that's kind of like the indicator where we have it monthly, you guys kind of have it daily. Now, there are guys who are like, Oh, my God, I never get that. Am I dying? Like, am I going to, you know, what's wrong with me? And I'm like, nothing's wrong.

There are guys who don't get it right first thing in the morning. But nocturnally, you'll get it overnight. You may not go, you know, unless you film yourself in your sleep. It's not great. I mean, you know, everyone has their things. Yeah. Sometimes I wake up with one. I'm like, should I tap the first lady of fitness and see what she's up to right

now? Absolutely. Maybe sometimes. Sometimes. Yeah. What, what I was dreaming about. Have you ever woken up having sex with your wife is like basically, basically you're sleep sexing and then you, and then you realize you're in it.

Like in a dream state. Yeah. We've done it like multiple times. We're realize you're in it. Like in a dream state? Yeah, we've done it multiple times. Literally, I wake up and I don't know who I'm having sex with. I just know I'm having sex with my wife. You must be sleeping like 12 hours a night. There you go.

I love that you don't say other names. No. My wife is my number one porn star. It's cool. I love that. It's's cool. I love that. It's the best. I love these conversations. And it's funny because, like, everyone says,

you must get the creepiest people in your DMs. And I'm like, actually, no. You know, I keep it professional. But if you talk about it like we are now, then it becomes very normal, as you said. And it's not a creepy thing because it is a function of health. we are now, then it becomes very normal, as you said. And it's not a creepy thing because it is a function of health. And it's similar to when I encourage male coaches to talk about periods with their female clients. Like, it's really no different.

Or even your athletes. You know, for a strength and conditioning coach or for me, you know, a little bit of a weightlifting coach, that's ultra important because at times, you know, there's more risk of injury injury at times or it's a better time to say go heavy max out there's times where volume is a better thing so you know you gotta get past the whole you know weirdness about it and just talk about it scientifically be an adult um i have a question about like training volume as travis just mentioned uh and i've told this story on the show before when we were doing shows on overtraining and just overall stress levels in your life. At the time that I was opening my gym and also trying to compete in CrossFit and also trying to grow a business and just these minor stressful things in your life of being completely broke and trying to make it work it's uh it was the only time of my life where I legitimately like recognize

like I cannot have a boner right now how like how do stress hormones and just overall total stress maybe it's not just training body but what is like the role of stress in sexual dysfunction it's that i love that question because that became very clear within the last year with what everybody went oh yeah i didn't even think of that you know the whole, everybody's experience within what they went through, either financially, emotionally with their job and all that stuff is different. Yeah. So a lot of guys were questioning their testosterone levels, but also if they're on TRT,

questioning their protocols, because all of a sudden they would not get the same erection strength or uh consistency and i'm like listen nothing is wrong with your protocol it's kind of like a pandemic out there you know where you know it's very stressful yeah the analogy i use especially for fitness pros is you know say you're it's squat day right it's max effort day you're literally going for it if i said to you all right can you switch gears and pop a boner in the middle of that squat you wouldn't be able to do it and that's the same exact i think in high school i now people are going to go try. No, you cannot do it. Yeah.

But like that, that's exactly what's happening to your body. Is that not, you know, prioritizing sexual function at a time where it thinks you need to be running away from danger. That's what guys go through when they're under stress because to achieve an erection, you have to be parasympathetic. And the term that in the medical field, they use is point and shoot. So point is parasympathetic and to ejaculate, you have to be sympathetic. So a lot of guys who can't even actually like bring the heat,

have trouble finishing. And there's other reasons why you can have trouble finishing, but to achieve the erection, you have to be in a parasympathetic environment. And when you're not, it's not going to happen. And it doesn't mean that your worth as a man is any less or your manhood is question at all.

It's really like the stress does. You gotta chill out. You gotta find a way to relax. Yeah. And so a lot of guys were really like really messed up from that, from, I had more erection conversations within the last year than I've ever had because guys who had never experienced erectile dysfunction, all of a sudden we're like, I can't get it up as much. And I'm like – they're very struggling to even talk about it because they're in like the early 30s.

Yeah. When you actually get into training programs, like how much does just like general strength training play into – does that – I don't even know if I'm supposed to be drawing correlations between strength training and like men's health and sexual dysfunction or sexual function. But do those two have a correlation in how they relate to each other compared to somebody that doesn't do any strength training at all? Yeah. So, you know, strength training obviously has a lot of benefits for your health and overall health. I think when it comes down to like the type of strength training we're talking about, a lot of clients lately, and when I say lately, I mean in the past two to three years have come to me doing more circuit style stuff and very high metabolic and all that stuff, which I have no problems with, except for the fact that no one's really doing like the heavy grindy, you know, straight strength training, like rest periods beyond 30 seconds. And I think

a lot of that more is a lot more of that is needed because number one, that's what builds the dense lean body tissue that everyone's after. And number one, that's what builds the dense lean body tissue that everyone's after. And number two, if you're doing the circuit stuff, like it's great. And there's a cardiovascular aspect to that, but it's very high sympathetic drive. So if you live your life, very high sympathetic drive. So you're stressed out all the time and you're training in a stressed out way. there's no real kind of downtime and you need a mix of both. As we've talked about with strength training and cardio, you want to have both a good mix of the aerobic stuff as well as real strength training. And so

obviously blood flow and it helps all of that, you know, good stuff without going down too much of a scientific hole with that. No, please do. Cause I really wanted to talk about blood flow next. So blood flow is like one of the bigger, um, issues that, that can happen with erections. And so it's, it's something that guys don't think about. Cause usually it's three different things that contribute to that. It's your brain, meaning the stress or the stress response it's low and then it's the testosterone or the biochemistry so it's three different b's what was the what was the middle one so you get the stress the what and what blood flow and then testosterone testosterone biochemistry if you want to call it that and and so when you have high blood pressure or you've got some sort of constriction in the blood vessels, you're not going to get the same flow to that area.

And guys who have extremely high blood pressure, they necessarily don't have to go, you know, squat their brains off. You can't squat off high blood pressure as well can actually do it through aerobic training and the reason that we've all been like hashtag fuck cardio you know the past i think like it's it's like 10 years where cardio is cool right yeah realizing like you kind of need it to live a long life and you know to achieve healthy blood flow because it increases red blood cells. It increases the amount of mitochondria you have. So now everything's working a lot. And if you've gotten checked out where you have some sort of blockage or something, obviously a urologist can help take care of that. But if that's, you know, been confirmed to not be an issue, that's why a lot of guys have issues with erections and blood flow

is because they don't have the strength for that because they're not in a healthy enough state. And that's why things like, uh, nitrous oxide and, you know, promoters, whether it's through supplements or certain devices, or even Cialis are used so often because it helps that process of getting the blood to the penis because it's like a spongy material with a lot of vessels in it and obviously it's a eruption of blood that makes it hard it's not necessarily like a muscle that all of a sudden yeah i would have trained it i would have trained it for sure every day yeah I tried to like in high school and put the towel on it. I mean, everyone.

The mechanisms at play when you talk about like Viagra or Cialis, like what actually goes on? I never understood in all honesty. Like you see the commercial and you go, well, if I put the pill in, doesn't it affect my whole body? Not just my penis. Like what's actually happening when you take Viagra? Yeah, it actually, well, it can be very systemic. So it's funny because like the way they discovered Viagra was it was a test medication for blood pressure and the side effect was a rock hard boner. And so they're like, Ooh, this is a really neat side effect. It was like maybe

1991 or something, but they realized that the people who were the test candidates did not return the excess medication that they were given when the test period was over. Because of that reason. I mean, would you? Nope.

About what medication? I was slinging them in the suburbs. It tripled the value. I was slinging them in the suburbs. It like tripled the value. I'm slinging them in my mouth right before bed. A lot of people take Cialis low dose as like a daily endothelial health supplement, basically. Or you can take it as a pre-workout too. Like I've taken it actually to get like a good pump, but it doesn't do for women what it does for men as much, but, but it helps with the blood flow. So, so anyway, so then they saw that like, you know,

it had this great side effect. And now in order to sell it as a drug, they had to come up with a term for it because you can't sell it off label like that. So I think it was somebody in advertising came up with the term erectile dysfunction, and then that's how they were able to sell Viagra and Levitra and Cialis and all the other ones. And so they, they basically, uh, inhibit an enzyme called PDE5 or phosphodiesterase 5. And basically what that does is it um it breaks down i'm trying to explain it like in a layman's terms but basically it it's it uh doesn't allow the constriction of the blood vessels in the penis and so similar to like when men men take propitia or something that blocks an enzyme converting testosterone into DHT,

which is for hair loss promoting. So it works similar to that. And so now you can have this engorging rush of blood flow, and it can actually help with keeping that stiffness. Obviously, Viagra is a little bit stronger in the sense that more guys get headaches and stuff like that. And you have to be careful with blood pressure and stuff, but Cialis tends to be a little bit more even keeled and guys tend to prefer that. Plus you can go low dose daily as you know, like a health promoting type of, I guess.

I didn't even know that. I've never even heard of like low to micro dosing Cialis. Yeah. Studies on it. Like it's for anti-aging and like even lean body mass improvements and stuff. So now everyone's going to go on. Yeah. Now that they've heard this,

they're like sweet. All those. How does you mentioned earlier TRT. And if we just play that game out one additional standard deviation, like full on just steroids and testosterone, like how does that play into even just going on it and then potentially coming off of it when it comes to sexual health? So going on TRT, how does that help sexual health? Well, just you, you mentioned earlier that, uh, during the pandemic, you have all these people that are on TRT kind of asking where their boners went, like wouldn't increasing testosterone, in my opinion, very uneducated opinion about this matter. I would assume that that would help your

sexual health. And then you're saying that people are so stressed out that they can't have boners, even though they're on the plus one for boners. And then, you know, as you answer this, like what happens when you come off those things? So because testosterone is one of those three B's, that testosterone was not their issue when it came to losing their erection. It was the stress issue. So still applies. They're not immune to, you know, stress not affecting them and everything. So that's where that comes into play. Now, being on it obviously has a ton of different benefits and everything, and it can actually help mitigate what the effect of stress is on the body in terms of breaking down muscle or, you know, being lethargic and just kind of like that feeling where you're wired, but you're tired and all that

stuff. But it might not be the issue. Like there are guys who actually go into testosterone who've had erectile issues and they continue to have them because of other reasons not having to do with testosterone or like if they're they have a practitioner who puts them on a massive dose of one injection a week that can cause some issues too because you have the spike and then this crash and so then their body's like what the hell and you don't have that steady flow of testosterone i mean that's another reason too yeah that that would be why guys were you know they're questioning the protocol but the protocols worked fine until a stressful event happened and now they're they're blaming the testosterone because that's really the only thing they just

change it's so hard to have a tangible um reason for stress affecting you and when when you can't really show people either you can only explain it to them it's kind of like you know someone's going through the fat loss phase or muscle gaining phase and nothing good is happening yet you can't say well look inside your body like you know yeah people that so yeah uh go ahead mash it just says it sounds like heart rate variability is going to be a big key because um if the ability for one to to be sympathetic and then parasympathetic i feel like you know somewhat i think anything that you could possibly do to increase one's heart well that's good just for life in general but definitely a deep dive into heart rate variability seems to be like something that you know more

research should be done on it if that's the case yeah that's where you know some of the technology comes into play um like i love using aura ring to track for sleep um as does Charlie and many of my clients have it. And so with them having an Oura Ring, I have access to their data. It's kind of creepy. Like I have their nutrition logs. I've got their sleep. Like I know what you're doing. And you're like a friendly person.

Imagine someone that's got that for a negative purpose. So tell me about the Oura Ring. The Oura Ring, is it better than like Whoop or Fitbit or all these others? I'm not affiliated nor do I get paid by anybody, but I prefer Whoop, yes. That's even better. I want to know the truth then. The wrist-based

devices tend to not be as accurate, but when it comes to HRV, the chest-based straps are probably used as Omega Wave, which is a little bit more expensive even for. Yeah. That, that tends to be the most accurate, but the best way to increase your HRV and to lower resting heart rate is through aerobic training, which nobody wants to do. And I was, you know,

laughing on stage too. Cause I was like, aerobic training is going to give you the gains that you want. And I bet you guys never thought someone would be saying that in 2021, get your aerobics on to get bigger, you know, or stronger and stuff like that. But, but that's the quickest way to do it. Sure. To focus on that, because then that puts you into more of a parasympathetic state. I think there's a lot of aerobic advantages to aerobic training that a lot of strength athletes, powerlifters, or just athletes in general want to ignore, but there are three

time world champion powerlifters. And I look back and I think maybe I left some things on the table simply by not taking care of my heart a little bit more and being able to train you know longer and recover faster yeah can you actually dig into what modalities you're talking about because i think that that aerobic thing like so many people just immediately go to i gotta go run four miles is that is that like get off your ass and go walk or is that actually you need to go run four or five miles maybe 10 miles a week just to keep a good base? If you enjoy running, you can run. Absolutely.

Like some people enjoy it. I'm not going to take that away from them, but you don't have to. So it's not like you need to go and do a marathon. I mean, there are some people now, if you have somebody who's significantly overweight, walking to the mailbox might end up being like a very metabolic activity for them. So happy you just said that. Please finish. But that was so good that you just brought up like obesity as a as a thing. Well, it's it's a big thing, too. And like, as Travis mentioned, you know, with with power lifters and bigger individuals, you know, obesity and power lifting are different. But if you're training in a fashion

that is constantly high intense, so your heart is just what, what is called concentric heart. So it's beating very rapidly that will increase the size of the left ventricular wall, right? Happen in, in power lifters. And the same thing happens in guys who have a high blood pressure thickening on that side. So the way to mitigate and or reverse that is low threshold activity that does not have to necessarily be running. Because, as I said, walking to the mailbox can be very for somebody and very difficult. Like their heart rate might get upwards of one, you know, 160 170. And if somebody wants to run, great, but also the efficiency factor comes into play where, you know, your heart rate will get a lot higher running than it would on like an assault bike or a spin

bike, just because of the mechanics with it. You know, if you're an inefficient runner, your body's going to be like, all right, this sucks, right. And more energy trying to make sure you don't hurt yourself. So low threshold where it's different for everybody, but like we all like to generalize 130 to 150, but it could be 120 to 140, you know, wherever you feel a comfortable conversational pace before you kind of hit like a, that lactate burn. Like if you walk up a flight of stairs and your legs are burning or all of a sudden, you know, you're 10 minutes into some aerobic work and your legs are burning, you got to back off a little bit and maybe start a little bit lower threshold. And then ideally 60 to 90 minutes a day, but that's not really, you know, realistic

for people. So if you can get 30 minutes a day, it's going to have a lot of benefits. And then when you track that, you see how your sleep starts to improve and your recovery starts to improve. So you have more red blood cells. Your body is like, oh, I have more ways to transport oxygen. And then now you've got more mitochondria, which we all learned in school. The only thing that we all remember is the powerhouse in the cell. Right. So true. Best way to explain it.

And I tell coaches, if you can go back to that and review what the mitochondria does, it's very beneficial because that's where carbs and fats go in and get used. And the efficiency of your body using that is dependent upon how many you have. And so it's like recruiting more worker bees. So if we have more worker bees, we can eat more food. We can recover better in between sets and in between workouts and then we get stronger as a result of being able to eat more recover better and lift more so it's kind of like a win for everyone if you're an ultra endurance athlete okay maybe the negative effects of i was gonna say was going to say, it's got to, the pendulum's

got to swing the other way. If you take it to the other extreme and that's our industry, right. Is like, it's, but I think, you know, when we told that, when we were told that cardio would make us fat and would make us weak and all that stuff, the slide that I like to use is that, uh, marathoner versus the sprinter. That's yeah, we've all seen that. What do you want to look like? Okay, well, the guy on the left is not necessarily fat. Maybe some people want to look like that. Who cares? I don't care what someone wants to look like versus another. If they're healthy doing something, great. It's not going to make you fat and weak.

The best way to to like sell people on this is i'm a big car person i love like fast trucks and cars or whatever so you gangster you're going to the car show and everything no i i need to but i haven't you're done i bet they got a car show like every weekend. Charlie did a good job. Charlie has a wife that likes to work out. Muscle cars, loud music. Boners. Yeah. Charlie hit the jackpot.

I could have been born a guy, but I'm not. But I just bought a Jeep with a Hemi in it, and Charlie's like, I don't see the difference. He doesn't get it. Does this still get me to the grocery store? Okay, cool. does this still get me to the grocery store okay cool the ultimate like dream truck of mine is called a res bonnie tank like these things start telling you it goes zero to 60 in like three seconds who did you marry here i didn't even know that car existed yeah like the miles per gallon is like four you know nice charlie's a gangster up under all that academia i see that all right I didn't even know that car existed. Yeah, like the miles per gallon is like four. Nice. Charlie's a gangster up under all that academia.

I see that. All right. So you have one of those cars and you're like, shit, this burns through fuel really quickly. But that's what you want, right? Versus you compare that to a Prius, which goes forever. Now, people were like, oh, you're going to store fat. If you become efficient at like, no, I'm sorry. That's not how it works. You want to be the res Vonnie, but before you can be that you have to spend time as a Prius and become efficient and build your mitochondria

and do your aerobic training and all of that and your actual weightlifting taking rest periods and then later on you can explore doing the higher intensity stuff because the typical fat loss plan is a lot of training four to five days a lot of cardio cut the calories add more cardio cut the calories more to where at the end they're doing like two to three lot of cardio cut the calories add more cardio cut the calories more to where at the end they're doing like two to three hours of cardio i'm very little whereas if you do that in the beginning and you get the mitochondria built and it takes like eight weeks then you're set and you think it's if you can't see me right now i'm like auntie trying to jump in to ask you so many questions.

No, you're good because you're doing a great job. You hit on all these things that I want to talk about. I'm like, yeah. On the extremes of what you're talking about, we've got like obesity, and then we've got that guy standing up on stage that weighs 290 pounds and is 5'6", called mr olympia are they equally unable to get for like are are they equally unable to have boners because of one extreme body fat and then two like overly stressed out extreme diets like over cardioing themselves to death just so they can perform in that one specific moment that are those equally unhealthy? I would say technically yes. So like BMI gets a bad rap,

but there are like some comorbidities and, you know, all cause mortality when it comes to being that large, regardless of your muscle to fat ratio. Now, if we had to go through semantics, like, all right, a guy on stage, like if you ran his labs and stuff, you would probably send him to the ER. He's not going to get a boner then and there, but when it comes to like the stress he puts himself under with dieting and training and all that stuff. Yeah. There's probably a high probability that he has issues with that, but less likely than the obese guy who probably has a very low testosterone to estrogen ratio. Who's not on testosterone, who's very sedentary. Yeah. Is there a body fat percentage? So like a, we coach a lot of very similar to you probably

in a way of like, we coach a lot of dads that are just stressed the F out. They have have put on a bunch of body fat they don't have a lot of time to train and they just trying to figure it out um is there like a body fat percentage that has somewhat shown up in the literature or studies that correlates like hey if you get above 25 you're in bad shape and not it's not just the heart attack thing but like you just don't have any energy to have sex. There's just no chance of it, of that happening. I don't know offhand of an exact number, but I would say that guys who are within like the 40% plus range have a lot of difficulty and a lot of different issues.

And usually that results in being pre-diabetic and high blood pressure. And a lot of those are correlated with erectile issues, specifically diabetes. And funny enough, like the best fix for diabetes for type two diabetes is testosterone replacement. Really?

I didn't hold on. Go into that. I want to hear about that. Yeah. No kidding. And it helps increase insulin sensitivity. Oh. Yeah.

You said that like it was so obvious and both of us were like, huh. I never. Obviously. Duh. I guess they're used to talking about it um with like some of the doctors because they're like why isn't every diabetic on trt and it's you can't make a lot you know there's obviously politics and ethics that go into that too but like they make more money off metformin and other things that you know come come to mind because trt in general is not necessarily what

an endocrinologist dealing with somebody with diabetes is going to think. Yeah. Um, us as males, I feel like we have a, unless you are like super focused on fitness and the way you eat, we have this period of time from like 16 to call it like 32, maybe 35 years old, where we can be total savages. And then the decline and our need in nature, especially after we have a couple of kids, we are so unnecessary. We could just off most of the 40 year old males and we do nothing, maybe provide a little wisdom as we raise some kids but on the pure breeding and nature side we don't really have like a a real function is it something where like testosterone should also

just be normalized as a part of a a healthy life the fact that we all have to be here for at least 80 years and and now it's it shouldn't be so cliche to have to like say you're on TRT. Like it still isn't that normal of a conversation, but I would imagine if it helps with obesity, helps with insulin sensitivity, if there's, there's so many benefits for, for health by increasing your testosterone level and men typically have such a decrease later in life. How do we like progress that conversation to making it so normal or to making it more normal? I think it's getting there. And by the way, I love diesel dads. Like, I think that's awesome. Thanks. Cool. Yeah. We're working on it. It's great. There's a lot of guys that really,

really lose hope and think that, you know, life after a child, like they're just never going to get the body back or the feeling back and all that stuff. But to answer your question, it just needs to be talked about more in a normal fashion. And I think the stigma behind it is that it's quote steroids. And yes, it's a steroid hormone, but the dose for TRT, I have, gosh, maybe over 27 to 32 of my clients are on TRT. A lot of them, you would have no idea by looking at them, you know, cause they think they'll go on TRT and they explode into muscles and stuff. You still have to do the work, you know, but from a therapeutic standpoint, that's what it is, is replacement therapy, similar to thyroid hormone you're replacing what is not being made yeah line in men's testosterone is so steep within the last few decades and that's due to

obesity and lifestyle and the environment and a lot of the toxic crap that we used to think was like so tree huggy hippie and now it's reality smacking us in the face that you know inevitably everyone will end up on testosterone replacement therapy in my opinion and i believe that the guys who were afraid of it at first realize why you don't necessarily want to come off of it and i know you mentioned that coming off of it before and guys are like, Oh, it's for life, you know? And I'm like, all right, let's talk about this. So we've done everything we can to, to go natural. So you're only going to get to a certain level because you cannot win against the environment. Right.

If you come on, if you go on it and you feel amazing and you can play with your kids for much longer and nothing hurts the way it used to, and you can have sex with your wife much longer and nothing hurts the way it used to and you can have sex with your wife every night and you have the energy to do what you want why would you want to come off yeah why would you want to come off yeah yeah and it's uh you know it's going it's going to a point where i think even guys in their twenties now are showing up with such low levels and fertility is threatened in the, as a population in the entire world that I asked one of, one of my podcast guests, David Lee, I asked him, is it inevitable for men early twenties to be on testosterone

replacement in the future? And he said, yes, just due to the fact that we cannot reconcile the levels that men had in their early twenties and late twenties due to just everything happening. This is so sad. Yeah. What are normal levels? Because I got mind tested and I lift weights. I eat healthy. I feel like I have a very alpha male personality just overall. I don't fall into – I'm not on the softer side of life and mentality. I assumed like – Soft. When they say like – yeah.

When they say like the average is 450 to 900, I assumed I was going to be like an eight. Like I'm 800 for sure. Then I got a test. It was like five 50 normal. And I was like, how can I be so far from the top yet? Do all the things right. Like what,

what actually is like a normal number for somebody? Because if you just told me I was five 50, I'd be like, I'm broken. I'm never having sex. No way. No chance I can survive at that level. But that's like,

that's actually pretty normal. Isn't that crazy? Why do they even have the 900? They should just put those people in the super freak category. Mash, what are you, like 1,200? Yeah, I'm normally, yeah. No, 48-year-olds should still be spitting out kids left and right like me. What? Yeah. What is like – I really was surprised when it came back just because my general lifestyle.

I'd rather it drop down just a little bit. I feel great. I feel young. But then it comes back at what I would have considered like below average. Did they do free testosterone? It was the Everly Well. Hold on. Let me get the right company. What was the one that we just sent our blood work into, Mesh?

It was basically Everly Well, but it wasn't. It was a different company. We interviewed them too, and they were super nice people, and now I'm just drawing a blank. That's okay. We like to say over 500, 500 and above is kind of where most men feel their best. But funny enough, different labs have different ranges, which is so stupid because it's like, okay, men are the same species no matter what continent you're on, whatever. Yeah. Inside tracker.

Sorry, go ahead. Inside tracker. There we go so some ranges were around like 250 to 1100 which obviously it's also massive yeah with that is that it's it's an average it's an average of all men in america who are sick overweight unhealthy it's average so being told you're normal you're among them i don't want to be normal i want to be optimal but the ranges have now been lowered even more in 2017 lab core lowered it to like 220 to nine something and they've since lowered it again to now breathing

like two i i forget 187 or something to like 870 so they're making it harder and harder for guys to obtain trt when they need it so you can be 31 years old have a testosterone level of like 20 you know 230 and be told you're normal why well i mean why are they doing that well i mean let's start that? Who's that helping? Is my question. Certain pharmaceutical industries. You can't get a prescription. That's crazy.

Testosterone, you can't patent a hormone. To make money off of testosterone, you have to come up with an alternate delivery system, hence pellets and gels and nasal sprays and all these different things, creams and all that. So you can't really make a lot of money off straight testosterone injections. And so there's a lot of politics and ethics that

go into that, but they're trying to make it harder and harder for guys to be able to get testosterone replacement. Why? I have no idea. It doesn't make sense. I want everyone to feel good. So it becomes this issue. And now this is through insurance, right? So to get it through insurance and get your insurance to grant it, you have to be below range. And it's just, it's a nightmare because then they question everything. So you can skirt around it if you're willing to pay out of pocket. And I would say upwards of like 2,500 a year with labs and all that stuff,

which is really not a lot to feel good if you're going to go through like an HRT practitioner. Because another thing is like, you know, going to your GP for TRt is not really advised they don't specialize what do they know yeah they don't know yeah and like they're not going to do the right labs and it's such a it's crazy because i know there's a lot of different areas and you probably want to ask me more questions so i feel like i should shut up no just so good yeah we we've talked a lot about like the the biology um uh and like training programs stress overall uh and one thing that always i asked sam this as well when he came

on um and and it doesn't really it has a lot to do with just like the brain and being just exposed to sex in so many places. But the entire like porn industry, you hear about this and how it affects erectile dysfunction and really in kids and their ability to actually like perform in their 20s. Like how does that play into it? And of those three Bs, like what mechanism is being tugged at there where kids are just, one, they're immediately addicted. And then two, like performances, not enhanced performances is basically nothing. And you've got endless access to endless everything. It's terrifying.

I'm definitely anxious to hear this answer. You what? I said I'm definitely anxious to hear this answer. You what? I said I'm definitely anxious to hear this answer. So you're saying, your question is, is the porn industry making erectile dysfunction worse? Yeah, because it's like testosterone. I don't think it really affects that because it's a computer strain. Like there's biologically, yeah, but the brain connected to your body and the excitement and arousal profile becomes almost infinite. So then normal sex is like, oh, is that a thing? What about this?

It's a dopamine thing. So you get the dopamine, like when you get a lot of likes on a photo, you get a hit of dopamine. That's what happens with porn and that's why all the categories and everyone's like how do you know this i have to research this that's why all the categories have increased drastically to like we didn't you know there was bondage now there's extreme bondage and then there's extreme bondage you know snuff styles you know it's crazy yeah because now you get a dopamine hit from a girl who you know can go forever and then all of a sudden she can like squirt or something and then you have your first girlfriend who's nothing like that you you you can't get aroused from that type of normality

because you're still watching things that are not realistic or the way that women um react to being like you know guys expect us to like scream so the neighbors here and you know okay maybe sometimes like you know depending on the mood or how many drinks but like you know generally most people are like not screaming their head off you know so it does affect like it ruins sex for for kids and i say kids but like teenagers coming into their 20s with their first experiences their experience is expected to be like what they're seeing in these movies and it's not and so that you know excessive porn viewing or the addiction is all of a sudden you get this rush of dopamine to where your body just can't respond anymore got it yeah like with insulin resistance you're so

surrounded by it you don't even notice it which yes i'd say like you okay dunkin donuts smells amazing and then you work there and you become immune to the smell like you just body does not respond anymore and you need something that much more aggressive that much more i guess perverted or whatever the category to get some sort of response or reaction i just remember it being so hard to find a playboy magazine when i was like 14 years old. And now all I gotta do is just turn the internet on and it's like 5 million times

potentially worse than whatever magazine used to show up at the house. Thank God the internet was not a thing when I was a kid. Like, man, I would've never come out of my room. Right, right. Terrifying. I went to all the school and we would go to this magazine store

that had like the back room you know with the doors we all know the best in there and like play girl was a thing back then yeah we would just go back there until they kicked us out because i was just so intrigued i guess that's part of why I'm in this field. I've just been intrigued by sex, call it daddy issues, whatever. Since I was a kid, and you go in that back room and you're just like, oh, there's black covers over all the magazines and everything.

Now it's like you just sit home and press a button. Boom, it shows up. I'm about to let down. You guys looked at Playgirl and then you got your first boyfriend. You're like, wait, where's the rest of it? Where are those six things on your abs that are so

big? Why is yours only a fraction the size? Anyway. Yeah, I thought it was going to hurt. I'm cheated. Did we even do anything? But yeah. This really is the best podcast yeah i i actually it's it's very interesting to me because like we're all kind

of like that last generation that uh didn't know how easily accessible everything could be and remember a time where you had to like i mean work really hard to find some janky magazine that nobody would even look at in 2021 and be like so stupid uh but i i wonder like the the long-term effects on it is is it purely just the arousal or does it start to get into the biology like do you have lower testosterone because your brain hasn't a an unhealthy relationship of what sex is just in general do you just you in a way like like your mood is obviously uh closely related to testosterone levels and if being bummed out about like the greatest thing in the world sex is like not exciting. It has to lead to levels of depression because

you just can't generally have the testosterone that would create happiness. I may be drawing the line too far out, but how does it play into the actual biology if your brain just doesn't have an arousal profile that is based in reality? Yeah. And that's where, you know, libido, so much goes into libido besides just testosterone, but it does contribute to it. And I think it, you know, having, it's like another stressor where if you have an inability to react to anything that should be like an input in a positive way, like sex, and all of a sudden your body just is like whatever that can have a suppressive effect on the whole hpta access and everything very similar to any type of

compressor because then you're stressing that you can't get an erection or you can't get a boner and i've had this conversation with guys where you know they're on testosterone and all of a sudden they're like like i can get enough an erection to penetrate my girlfriend or wife but then it doesn't last or it doesn't stay there and i have to ask them like okay what are you thinking about and and it's like they're thinking about work or they're thinking about please her or something or and i'm like you can't stress about not pleasing her or anything else having to do with that relationship like just like anything else you can't be thinking of one thing while you're doing another unless

you're trying to avoid finishing too quickly which is a different conversation so it's the mind is so powerful but it's just like not the sexy thing to talk about because you can't like take a pill to fix it really or whatever the neurotransmitters are a big part of that when you have um like your your serotonin and your dopamine and all that plays a huge role in happiness and contentment and and all of that so it's not just the testosterone that goes into it but it can help especially if you have optimal levels obviously you're less likely to be depressed and, you know, have those similar feelings because low testosterone and depression are very similar and, and antidepressants are given out in lieu of testosterone replacement to many

men. Yeah. But you're thinking that it would probably be better to get the testosterone replacement first before the antidepressants or what? Well, instead of being prescribed an antidepressant, which does not require any testing whatsoever, they should have hormones. That's what they do or should do for a lot of veterans. Because if you have a concussion or a TBI, you're going to have a brain issue with the wiring of what your period is saying to your body. And usually they come home and they're depressed because of that,

but it's not because of true depression more. So obviously PTSD can play into that, but it's usually a hormone issue. And a lot of them who do go on proper testosterone replacement end up feeling a lot better and that would just say so much because i feel like when you take like testosterone versus like you know the um and whatever the stress medications they might give you i feel like there's a whole lot more you know uh repercussions but for taking the one than the other like testosterone you know it's really not a whole lot. There's a few side effects I would imagine, you know, but like not near as many as you might hear,

but taking some antipsychotic that can be wildly like dangerous, it appears, unless they're just kidding. In those commercials, they start listing all the side effects. You're like, shit, man, I'd be better off just being crazy you know but yeah i mean people would rather like shit their pants yeah i love you explosive gas and diarrhea with headaches yeah blood pressure issues then just hop on one hormone where like the biggest side effect the biggest side effect water retention that goes away stabilizes yeah but yeah i mean you could increase your red blood cells and hematocrit but it does not get to levels of danger i mean it's so few side effects that the

fact that people are so worried and they're worried about the the scares of heart attacks and prostate cancer and all that stuff which have all been you know all that stuff has been upended refuted like it's not an issue anymore right so it's you know like like andrew mentioned how do we make this more normal we just have to keep talking about it educating men about it and just directing them to the right person and And I think that's part of what my role became was like an advocate for men's health because you guys don't go to the doctor. It's okay. If you're going to go to the doctor, which one do you go to? Because it's really, we have one shot to get this right because otherwise it's going to annoy you and you're not going to want to go see anybody. And it's finding the right practitioners that understand

how to do hormone replacement in an intelligent way and they're not just trying to capitalize on all these alternative delivery methods because you can make a lot of money doing it and doing anti-aging i mean in florida there's a clinic like every five there's a bunch here in north carolina where we take our children to the park there's some place it's some place. The marketing is just awesome. I want to go in just because it looks cool. Hit up their audience. Yeah.

I like going in like vitamin shop and asking about like the test boosters and stuff, but I'm boring now. What about test boosters? Is that a thing? Are those things real? Frank Thomas will tell you otherwise, but they're just a waste of money. They're a collection of different earths. Honestly, I go in there and I look at the new combos and everything,

and I'm like, $90 for fenugreek? Really? Right. I mean, you can buy those things separately each and still come up less than what it would cost for the bottle yeah get the real stuff yeah i think a lot of that angle though when when you're working with them it's like whatever it takes people to to pay attention to it is like like get in there frank thomas is doing it. He's not actually doing it probably. He's probably on the real juice. But it's like I think that a lot

of that stuff, this is the majority of the supplement industry to me. Everybody knows that it's like this tiny piece of it. It doesn't matter if you take an ashwagandha because it relieves stress. Well, it will relieve stress. You'll probably have a little bit better sleep, which is going to help you get a boner. It's going to increase your testosterone because you sleep better. But bringing attention to like how much better is your workout because of pre-workout.

Doing meth is rad, I assume. Of course you're going to have a better workout. But what's better for most people is to feel like they are doing something because most people are going to go to the gym and they're really insecure about their strength or they're really insecure about the way that they move around in the gym. And they see the big strong guy over there,

they realize they're not that guy. They see the guy posing in the mirror, they're not that guy. So if you go on a little bit of methamphetamine before you go into the gym and you take some pre-workout, some C4, it helps you stay in the zone feel like you're really doing something uh i don't i i have a hard time like being anti anything when it comes to the supplement industry because i think most people are pretty honest about it's like overall effects it's just people like having

a new driver when they go play golf. It makes them feel like they're doing something cool. Yeah. And, and, and I think, uh, they overlook the power of like a multivitamin because that's boring, you know, super boring. Granted, dude, I love pre-work like literally Charlie and I's pantry is like nine different flavors of bang ghost like you know now all the blackstone lab stuff that i got yesterday like yeah i love all and all the good shit in the 90s in the early 2000s that they because it works now we can't it's illegal yeah they took all the cool stuff out oh my god yeah i love pre-workout i drink it every single day

and it's like, it just, it's, there's something about the whole process of opening a bag, driving to the gym. Like I get that. Yeah. But when it comes to test boosters, like I'd rather you save your money.

That's all. I remember Charles Polican talking a lot about test boosters, like in the early nine, this is probably the mid-90s. And he was talking about he actually sold one. So that should have been a big red flag. But what was it?

T Nation sold it. Anyway, come to find out it was like, you know, it didn't work. I mean, I remember taking it thinking like I was taking steroids. Because he's like, I was at the Limit Training Center, you know, and I was doing weightlifting. I was always afraid that he was going to test me positive. But then looking back, I was at the limit training center. I was always afraid they were going to test me positive. I think they should

just put beta alanine in everything. That way you just feel the thing happening. You go, it must be working. It's got to be working. That's why DNP kills people because they don't feel it when they take it. Then all of a sudden they take too much. What are you talking about? What?

I don't know what DNP take it and then all of a sudden they take too much we're talking about what i don't know what dnp is yeah what is that oh new shit new shit it's like it's super illegal but they're actually testing it for as an obesity drug what it's a pesticide that basically oh yeah mitochondrial uncoupler so basically it increases your metabolism like 100 or 50 sure people can eat like full pizzas and like still get shredded yeah yeah but the side effect is death like yeah yeah i've only known one person to ever take that like she was it was a girl too she was nuts but um yeah yeah people take it like you feel like you have a fever all the time. Yeah. And then, like, you sweat yellow. Yeah. Stuff like stuff. You smell.

It's kind of smelly. It's pretty gross. But bodybuilders do it just to get shredded. So they can eat all those calories. They can still, you know, semi either keep that muscle or add a little bit more while they're just absolutely eating whatever they want. So the next time they try to give you advice about getting shredded, shut the – nah.

I'll take your advice. My – as we kind of come to the close of the show, I'm actually really interested in – I don't want to use the word ethics, but maybe like the appropriateness of a strength coach talking to their clients about things like this. You have clearly paved a path where it has become very normal and people are seeking you out specifically for this. But like the average trainer at your gym or say me, for example,

who's coaching dads that need to lose say 40 pounds and are really probably at that 30 to 35% body fat. And most likely, like when does it become appropriate to sit down with your client and go, hey man, when was the last time you got it up? When was the last time you thought you had like a really good sexual experience with your wife? Like, how do you approach that? Maybe not today because you're known for this, but at the beginning of your career when this started to kind of become your, your lane? Um, I can get asked that because it, I laugh cause I'm not like, hi, I'm Allie. How's your boner today? So,

you know, you don't lead with that. Come on. I probably should. I do now because I can't, you know, cause like they, actually what's really cool is like guys will message me and tell me how long it took them to get the courage to message me to talk about it which means more to me than anything like yeah i can help them in that way and and then make it a little bit easier to talk about so that they can talk to a medical professional about it. I'm all for it. So the way I talk about it is through, like in the consultation process initially, when I used to be in person with a lot of people,

I would sit them down and like, I would do tactics such as sitting next to them versus like across a desk because that's very confrontational. Make them feel comfortable and asking about their life. And it's like a motivational interviewing type of approach where, you know, they're, they're saying they want certain things and then it's finding out the why. And then as you dig and you dig,

and then you find out a lot of people are usually dealing with some sort of relationship issue, whether it's a personal relationship, a work relationship or a childhood trauma relationship, and finding out the why behind why they want to change or whatever they want to do, then I start saying, all right, well, you know, is the stress affecting your relationship at home? And you'll get a sense of how open they are to talk about that stuff by their answer to those types of surface questions and so sometimes I you know initially I would pull back and then I wouldn't bring it up for a while and then if they're not getting the results they want and they still complain that they feel a certain way and all that then I'll be like you

know maybe we need to look in some lab work and, and, you know, see how our hormones are doing. And then their response on that would make you realize their thoughts on testosterone. Now, some of my guys being the wall streeters, they had the best cardiologist, the best, whoever, okay. Can't touch those people have to slowly drip in those conversations, but other people, it's having an educated conversation about it for them to consider it. Yeah. Big, big proponent on not telling people you should do this. It's more, maybe we should consider getting labs. Like, I don't know why, but it bothers me when people like you should read this, you should go do this. And I would be like, consider reading this book or, you know, maybe explore doing this. And, and then as I got comfortable,

I kind of just went at it because the best way to talk about it is just to talk about it. And I just made it part of my intake process because I always do, whether it's zoom or in person, you know, it's face to face. And I talk about it from a health perspective. And I just talk about it. Like I'm talking to you guys right now. Whereas if I was like, so, um, uh, so like when you have like intercourse, you know, you can't be shy about it and you just have to bring it up. And the feedback from that is they very much appreciated my forwardness. A lot of people tell me they appreciate how honest I am with stuff, which I, I guess I just think I'm being myself. And I think I got that from my mom who would just like diarrhea of the mouth. Cool. You know, whatever gets the message across. And so I think just being honest and having a conversation as a human about it, you'll start

to chip away. And I think the reason they're open with me about it is because I am not the wife who is pushing them to go to the doctor, but I am a female who is recognizing that they're not alone and that this is actually normal because many guys who experience these issues earlier than 40 don't think that it's normal and are really embarrassed and they don't want to bring it up. And as soon as I bring it up and say, you know, a lot of my clientele who are in their thirties experience these issues, is this something that you've experienced or care to talk about?. And it's not because it is so common. It's just not talked about. Women are very forward and we'll talk about our periods or,

or, you know, that stuff and TMI all day long, because that's how we best cope with it. And it's a social thing. Whereas you're not talking about your erection strength in the locker room. I mean, maybe no way,

but that is like our manhood, you know, like it's a big difference. You're talking about someone's period versus like someone's ability to have sex. You know, that's to men, they're judged by that. And whether you want to admit it or not, if you're amongst your peers,

if you were to say, you know, hey, I'm having trouble getting my penis hard in a group of 20 men you're going to get ridiculed unfortunately which is sad and that needs to change because if that would change then people would be more apt to talk about it and we could get some

real change but that's just the society yeah so I mean as far as you know like a strength coach having that conversation I think if you can make it anecdotal regarding, you know, whether it's true or not, other clients or friends of yours, or even yourself, then I think guys are more likely to open up about it if it's a guy to guy thing. And as a female, you know, you have that barrier or you break down the barrier of it being

weird around another woman. In my mind, I guess, because that's what I've been told, is that the fact that I'm a female recognizing that it's a common thing, that guys aren't so prideful around another woman saying like, hey, this is like a normal issue. And with the legalities, that's a different conversation, obviously, because I have the ability to recommend certain doses and frequencies and all that stuff, because I work with doctors

who are taking care of a lot of these guys. So we can have a collective conversation. But legally, I can't or nor should any coach say, well, if you're taking an anti estrogen, you should come off of that, I can say, I would strongly consider talking to your doctor, you know, but you can't legally tell someone to come off their medication because that's, that's not a road to go down, you know? So just starting with the suggestion of getting some, some comprehensive lab work done is always a great way to open up that conversation because not only are there millions of options to get labs done, but then you have a bigger platform to talk about stuff because now you've got

lab work and then it's like, cool, this is more data. You know, just all the data that you can provide somebody is helpful. And then your conversation kind of flows from there. This has been fantastic. Thanks for coming on and hanging out with us. Yeah, I know. We're going to have you back, though, I promise. Doug's got to come on. We've got to talk about all things. I still have so many questions.

Like, this is – first off, the reason we had you on was because we heard you absolutely smashed at NSCA this year, which anytime I hear someone's just crushing it at NSCA, time to come on Shrugged and hang out with us. And I can't believe we didn't go to... I had a kid, so I can't just go to Florida. Come on, man. You're probably straight. I appreciate you being here. This was really cool. Where can people learn more

and come and hang out with you? I'm mostly on Instagram. As you said, my Instagram is kind of cool, I guess. Normalize the boner. There. At the Allie Gilbert is my Instagram handle. I'm also on Facebook, never really on Twitter.

So you guys can DM me. And my website is AllieWeingroff.com as I transition my new last name. And we've been married for a year and a half but our wedding's next month so oh yeah yeah you weren't able to get married in the pandemic or have the ceremony yeah it's the the ceremony and the reception was supposed to be april of 2020 so we have uh we have two wedding dates to celebrate as well it's good for for you. It's like a half wedding date. Yeah, I mean, nobody else can have this type of experience. God forbid there aren't any more issues like that.

We're going to have a real pandemic one day, and it's going to be really bad. It's going to be a real one. Don't even talk because it's coming. This is a pretty big one already. No more of this shit. Right. Normal. Normalcy.

All right. What's Travis Bash? big one already. No more of this shit. Right. Normal. Normalcy. Alright. What's Travis Bash? You can go to Instagram, or I am on Twitter. If you want to debate or discuss. I would say debate or discuss stress and conditioning topics. Anything

biomechanics. Make sure you get over and follow Douglas Larson at Douglas E. Larson. And I am Anders Varner at Anders Varner. We are Barbell Shrugged at Barbell underscore Shrugged. Get over to BarbellShrugged.com forward slash Diesel Dad. That's where all the busy dads get strong, lean, and athletic without sacrificing family, fatherhood, or fitness. And guess what?

You can go to Walmart if you're in San Diego, L.A., Palm Springs, or Vegas. We have three programs on the shelf in the pharmacy. Friends, we'll see you guys next week.