Barbell Shrugged - Old School Powerlifting w/ Mark Bartley, Anders Varner, Doug Larson, and Coach Travis Mash Barbell Shrugged #580

Episode Date: May 26, 2021

Marc Bartley was one of the premier 275-pound lifters in the world. At the 2005 Arnold Classic he squatted a huge 1058. Marc has been competing in powerlifting for over 6 years and has used the IPA, APF, USAPL and the WPO to showcase his strength. He currently owns Total Gym in South Carolina. He holds two degrees from the University of South Carolina; one in finance and one in economics. His best lifts include a 1058 squat, 700 pound bench press and a 722 deadlift. His best total is 2463.   In this Episode of Barbell Shrugged:   How people got so strong without the internet The mindset to squat over 1,200 pounds Eliminating limiting beliefs around strength Growing a business after athletic performance The similarities of athletic performance and business    Mark Bartley on Instagram   Anders Varner on Instagram   Doug Larson on Instagram   Coach Travis Mash on Instagram   ————————————————   Diesel Dad Training Programs: http://barbellshrugged.com/dieseldad   Training Programs to Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/34zcGVw   Nutrition Programs to Lose Fat and Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/3eiW8FF   Nutrition and Training Bundles to Save 67%: https://bit.ly/2yaxQxa   Please Support Our Sponsors   Organifi - Save 20% using code: “Shrugged” at organifi.com/shrugged   BiOptimizers Probitotics - Save 10% at bioptimizers.com/shrugged

Shrugged Family! Today's episode of Barbell Shrugged, we are talking to Mark Bartley aka Spud. He was a 275 pound lifter totaling 2,463 pounds. That's a 1,058 pound squat, a 700 pound bitch and a 722 pound deadlift we travel down to Columbia South Carolina at spud Inc last time all of us were together about a month and a half ago we got to go kick it in Columbia South Carolina and it's a ton of fun mark makes a ton of cool lifting equipment specifically for power there's people that are like way too jacked. He makes the stuff to make you that enormously jacked and strong. Highly recommend getting over, checking out Spud Inc.,

everything in the show notes about Mark Bartley, as well as I want to remind everybody to get over to barbellstruck.com forward slash Diesel Dad, where all the busy dads get strong, lean, and athletic. The Diesel Dad mentorship is live, and you can come and hang out with us in the Diesel Dad Dojo. Just search Diesel Dad Dojo on Facebook. That's where all the busy dads are hanging out, talking about getting strong.

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know who Mary is, but I do know who I am and how much better I sleep when I take Magnesium Breakthrough, and I think that you should as well. So, let's get into the show. Welcome to Barbell Shrugged. I'm Anders Varner, Doug Larson, Coach Travis Smash, Mark Bartley. Everyone knows him as Spud. We're in Spud Inc. right now. There's a jillion straps behind me. And today on Barbell Shrugged, we're going to find out how to squat 1,125 pounds. Because that was your best squat.

1,124. 1,124. Sorry about that, team. Should we delete that out? You can't add or take away. Should we delete that? You can't add or drop off. Redo the intro.

It has to be exactly the number. 11-24. 11-24. Where were you training, and when did that happen? I was training at our old facility at 9600 Two Notch, which was about 10 minutes away. Yeah. That was 2006 New York?

Oh, yeah. It was up there where the big deadlift went down. Right. When Andy first got his thousand in the book. Who? Andy Bowman. Andy Bowman. Who?

What the hell is wrong with you, dude? Who? Were you guys competing against each other at that time? No, we were never against each other. Oh, never? He was an heavyweight. He was a lightweight. Just a little guy. He was a lightweight.

Just a little guy. Just a little guy. Before we get into squatting 11-24, though, when did you find powerlifting and choose that sport to be the one that you wanted to go and squat 1,100-plus pounds? That started back in 1998 when Don used to own the gym. And it was just a regular commercial gym at the time. And I'd just been going through the motions. You know, everybody does.

You know, you lift for a while and you make some progress. And then, you know, you fall off and then you try to come back again. Well, he saw me squatting by the back door one day. And I think it was four and a half. It really wasn't that much. Nothing terribly exciting. You know, and he saw me, you know, work pretty hard. And then I think I was about to puke or something.

I had my hands on my hips or on my knees. And he was like, hey, you want a power lift? And I was like, sure, man. I don't have anything else to do. I'm kind of bored these days. What a decision. What a decision. Right, yeah, but the unique thing was, you know, obviously I've been lifting since I was 13 years old like everybody else.

And we used to train at a place, the Dazzle Freeway Gym. And it was an old feed mill, and the guy made a gym out of it, right? And there was these two cats that came in all the time, and they were power lifters. And, you know, at the time it was gem out of it, right? And there's these two cats that came in all the time, and they were power lifters. And at the time, it was just you copied everything in the Flex magazine or the Muscle and Strength magazine, all those basic routines, you know, hack squat yourself to death, leg press yourself to death. And these two are in the corner, and they're just getting hyped,

and they were squatting. I think it was five or five and a half and they were just screaming, ah, run. And I was like, ah, damn, what the fuck are they doing over there, dude? But, you know, at the same time, that was, you know, I was never going to be a big guy because physically I just couldn't put the muscle on, right? So.

Well, you're listening to those guys squat and you're like wanting to be over there with them doing it or you're like intimidated by them or where were you at kind of mentally right then? I mean, the idea really excited me, right? I was like, oh yeah, that's really cool. At the same time, I was like, oh dude, I don't want to do all that. Seems excessive. How old were you?

It just seemed weird. I think I was 18 or 19. Okay. Right? Yeah, late high school. Yeah, just out of high school, you know, working at the grocery store, stocking shelves, just goofing off, you know, partying all the time. Sure.

It was the 80s. There's a lot of drinking and a lot of blank spots in the memory. You know, that I wouldn't want to feel. Uppers. There was uppers. I wouldn't want. You wake up and you There was uppers. I wouldn't want. You wake up and you go, oh, shit, man. I think I had a good time.

I feel like I had a good time. I'm going to pretend I did. Likely. And then your friends say, oh, dude, you did some dumb shit. You had the most fun. I was king of the dumb shit, by the way. Whenever you wake up and you don't remember what happened last night, you're like, fuck.

I hope I don't even find out. Yeah. It just depends on if you had that good feeling or not when you wake up and you don't remember what happened last night, you're like, fuck. I hope I don't even find out. Yeah. It just depends on if you had that good feeling or not when you wake up. If you wake up and you go, oh, shit. That's terrible. To me, it was always when I woke up looking to see who's next to me. Is it a good choice, bad choice? Well, I wasn't going to bring that out yet, but, yeah, there was a lot of, oh, shit.

It's either sweet or dang it. Hey. I was like, what the fuck? of, oh, shit. It's either sweet or dang it. Hey. I was like, what the fuck? Oh, shit. Yeah. Did lifting kind of bring you out of that party world at all? Like you got serious about training and stopped partying so much? Yeah.

I had to watch those guys. And, you know, typically I was always – I couldn't put the size on and hang with the dudes. You know, I mean, obviously there were other things involved. But I didn't know shit for shit back then then and i don't think anybody really ever does but yeah um at the same time i was always i was always much stronger than they were so i could always hang with them so the fact that you know you could even though they were assisted we'll say and you were still clean you know i can't tell you for sure but you know there's there's there's

this and there's that, right? Nobody knows anything. You're naturally pretty strong if you're competing with guys that are presumably all juiced up and you're a kid still. Yeah. I mean, I had no idea, but, you know, back then there was a lot going on. And, you know, you heard about it and it's like, ooh, you know, this or that. Ooh, that guy's taking some shit. Right?

Right? Yeah. heard about it and it's like oh you know this or that and that guy's taking some shit right right yeah and but you don't know for sure and and you know i was always i didn't want to i was always scared anyway so most of it if it would have been available fuck probably you know yeah but you're squatting 450 before you even like really started training training so you're very strong from from the jump you started training at 14 you're very strong from from the jump you started training at 14 you said 13 13 now the four five years into that year the 450 was back in 1998 and it was like 450 500 so when i first started squatting um i think i did i don't know when i was 13 i was like 275 or something like that did you have any idea what strong actually meant when you're squatting 450 you were just kind of doing it? I was just doing it just to compete.

Where did you learn? Learned in the backyard. Beautiful. On your own? Actually, my friend, he had one of those old weeder benches. Sick. Like everyone. And, you know, it's a cliche story, but that's still the beginning.

You had these cement-filled weights, and luckily he had a bar that was made longer so you could get 165 pounds on that, right? Oh, yeah. That was the shit. Right. At 13 years old, my neighbor, he was 4 years old. He was 17.

He was a girl-getter. Chick's always hanging on him and shit. You just want to hang and learn some shit from him, right? It seemed like he had the right idea. He did have the right idea. And so, you know, as a kid, you never sleep. So he'd be in the backyard working out.

So we'd go over there and work out with him. And the weird part was we didn't go run five miles. You just did things. I just did stuff. You know, that's back when I could run. I actually had a decent little run, but obviously not, you know. Over the years, that faded down to zero. Don't do that shit.

Don't run. Don't do that anymore. I mean, I think a lot of stuff when we were young, you think about it and you think it's dumb, but then you think, you listen to like Louie, you know, the repetition method. I think a lot of what we did was instinctively do what he's talking about. You do the, you know, the Arnold's Encyclopedia,

and you do like, you know, 10 sets of 10, and you do 10 reps here, 10 reps here, 10 reps here. And at that age, that's probably exactly what you need. Yeah. You had big money, dude. I was just getting the Flex magazines and the muscle and strength. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I spent the money on Arnold's Encyclopedia.

Yeah, but even going into that, like there's no way that you can squat 450 pounds without just getting reps in. It's so awkward neurologically you can't even. You've got to build muscle. Yeah, you just can't figure it out until you put a ton of reps in. Right. And many people are just, it's like a race to just being able to have enough reps to be able to lift heavy weight.

Right. So a lot of times when we talk about being dumb, I think we weren't dumb. I think we were doing exactly what we should do is just, you know. Yeah, building muscle. Building muscle, learning how to move. Getting coordinated. Yeah. The coordination is a massive piece of it.

Well, that's the most important part. Yeah. Being coordinated and, you know, I wish that I would have people teach me more technical skills, you know, as far as the actual skill work itself, you know, especially early on. Right. I mean, I was just strong, right, and I didn't learn any skill work until I was 30. Yeah. That's back when I started with Donnie.

I didn't learn that. We didn't. We had the, you know know we got the Powerlifting USA with Louie's articles and you know we're all like it's like a fucking comic book so we all got it out

we're reading it you know oh yeah that's it oh yeah that's it oh yeah that's it I would not put it down when I would get mine I would read every single word

more than once that's the only time I think I had a photographic memory me too yeah oh yeah that's it whatever he said is like yeah it's still ingrained in my memory you know like That's the only time I think I had a photographic memory. Me too. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's it.

Whatever he said is still ingrained in my memory. The stuff he said about the conjugate method and then accommodating resistance. I mean, it was like, oh. And I remember when we first got a set of blue bands. Oh, yeah. It was like magic. I mean, Chris and I were like shaking. Couldn't wait to use these blue bands as if that was the answer to everything in the universe. So here's a little funny joke.

When I first started, I mean, Donnie said, hey, you want a power lift? So then we started doing the four days a week exactly as the setup and everything down to everything. Just for the audience, what does that four days look like? Well, you got your two speed days, your upper speed day, and then your lower speed day. And then you got your max upper and your max lower. You try to squeeze it three days apart. That's the basic progression or basic layout of conjugate.

Yeah, that's pretty much the essence of it. So you get the technical aspect of it, and you get to work your skill work and continue to work your power output and all those good things. And then you work the max effort side. And we followed it to the T. So did we. But as we – To the T, kind of.

We did. Well, whatever – well, obviously you're going to push it more. That's what I'm talking about. Right. I would do everything he said, but then keep going. Well, we did all the extra workouts workouts and we did all the sled work. Yeah. We did every single thing.

You know, we did five 200-foot sled trips. Actually, it was more like 600 foot. You know, by the time you went down and back. And then we did five trips of that after each training session. Yeah. And then we come back and do our little 30-minute ab workout and tricep workout. So we were always doing all that extra volume.

And unfortunately, because we were doing all that volume, we never put any size on. We got coordinated. Yeah. We got our technical work going up, but we never really put any size on. You said earlier that putting on size initially for you was more difficult than other people? No, no, no.

Oh, no? No, no. I started out at 192. You know, that was my first power. When you started competing? My first power lifting weight was 192. No way. Yeah.

And he's making fun of me. But you were heavyweight at your peak? 275. Oh, Jesus, yeah. My heaviest was 303. Gosh. Yeah, I was way overboard. Yeah.

But getting back, I mean, this is a funny little story. You know, I didn't know shit from shit, and this guy asked me, what's the chains for, dude? And I was like, I don't know, the chains. And I just made up some shit because I didn't know anything. Oh, the chains hit the ground and make your body react to it. There's a little vibration. Right, right, right, yeah.

And it picks it up. I just made some shit up. It's tingling. And he just looked at me, and I was like, right, right, yeah. And it picks it up. I just made some shit up. It's tingling. And he just looked at me and I was like, yeah, that's it. Yeah. Sort of just left it there. He's probably still saying that to people right now. I remember being like, well, at the end of the day, at least it looks cool.

Yeah. Right, it sounds cool and it looks cool. That's why I like it. Everybody knows you're serious. And nobody else was doing that shit. Yeah. It's also really important for the ego. Yeah. It makes you stronger. Yeah. You're the guy in the corner. that shit. Yeah. It's also really important for the ego. Yeah.

It makes you stronger. Yeah. You're the guy in the corner. How long? Here's a way to think about that. We were doing stuff that neurologically we had no idea about, right? So we were improving our nervous system because it's a new thing. Yeah.

It's a new thing, and your body has to pick it up. Yeah. And if it doesn't pick it up, then you're not going to make an improvement. Yeah. Right? It's very simple. It's not really. That's the essence of conjugate method.

The essence of everything. Change a little bit. Get a new stimulus. The body has to respond. Change a little bit. I think sometimes he might have changed too much. You know, like, I don't think you need quite the drastic changes to get you know stimulus but that's just my corny thing to say the stimulus has to be continuous yeah

it really is corny but that's the reality of training is is is it has to be some some type of i mean obviously you can have the same same same, but you have to also have a stimulus in there numerous times to elicit some kind of change that your body will pick up and accept. Right? Right. I mean, people like to overcomplicate shit and add all kinds of things to it. But if you're not doing something that the body doesn't recognize it's not going to adapt to it right yeah you do the same thing then what is the law of accommodation it gets used to it flat lines right its whole job is to get used to whatever you throw at it yeah and

then stagnate that because it doesn't want you to really improve right you know much as you want to improve or don't want to prove what you think you want to prove you know if that to improve when you think you want to improve, you know, if that makes sense. When you started training and using the conjugate method, was there like a big jump going from in the actual numbers that you were squatting or all three of the lifts, the main lifts? No. It took a while still?

You know, the thing about it was at the time was I was learning a whole bunch of skill sets. It was also the first time that I had to – I learned how to diet. Right. Right. So I was doing what was called Apex back then, which is really – it's really just a plain bodybuilding diet, but it's – White fish, white chicken, white rice? Actually, Neil Spruce was way ahead of the curve back then. He had so many different – you would plug in your variables, you know,

what you think your metabolic rate is and age and all that stuff. And then it would kick out these menus for you. So you might have yogurt and peanuts. You had a wide variety of things. He was doing macros before there was macros. Right. This guy was way ahead of the curve. Yeah.

He also did the Evogen line. This was probably you were like four years old or something. How old are you? 37. What is that? I'm like that I'm the young one. You are? Okay.

So you might have been around for that shit. But he had the Apex Nutrition line. I totally remember that. He was out of California, and he also did the Evogen line, which was like the sports performance line. And he was also one of the first guys to bring out the Andro because he had this whole thing. He had the creatine.

He had the Trib. And he had the Cryosin. And he had the Andro. And then there was some other thing that was recovery. He had a whole stack. It was the first stack. But, you know, the Andro worked so well. It was a really good Andro.

It was really good Andro. It was really good shit. It was better than steroids. Like, I know I took, remember M1T? Oh, yeah. In 2004, when I broke

Ed Cohn's world record the first time, all I took was M1T. It was a legal pro-hormone. Yeah. And like, none of those dudes, they're like, what are you taking? And I'm like, I'm taking this stuff, M1T. It was a legal pro-hormone. None of those dudes were like, what are you taking? I'm like, I'm taking this stuff, M1T.

I bought it at bodybuilding.com. Everybody's like, bullshit. Then they banned it right after. I should have bought. I wish I'd bought a warehouse full. I'd probably be dead. They just kept coming out with them. I know I bought some Indra from you.

It was awesome, too. They had so many different pro-hormones bought some Indra from you. It was awesome, too. I mean, they had so many different pro hormones. Legal, by the way. It was legal. I don't think it is anymore. It was then. There's still a bunch that's legal. Yeah.

But legal means it's just gray area. Yeah. Meaning it hasn't been banned yet. Yet. Yeah. So does your team still do a conjugate model these days or have you adopted or adapted that in any way? I always adapt it. I still sort of do the same layout as far as the four days,

but I change volumes. I'm doing a lot of the squat max belt squat in there because it's really good. Please tell them what you told me about Brian Carroll's big squat. Brian told me That when he squatted When he squatted his 1300 He only got on the bar four times And the rest of the time he was doing the squat

Doing the belt squats Because it mimics the squat Much I mean it's pretty much a squat Because it loads the legs so much but it doesn't kill your back Right So you know what he told me with the volume wise was he was doing 10 sets of five it took me a while to get

it out of him too because he didn't want to tell me but yeah i was like i was like do you know i think we're drinking a little come on yeah yeah nobody wants to give away their shit uh but um i just gave it away sorry uh but yeah he only he you know But, yeah, he only squatted four times. He did squat max. Over what period of time? I think it was about 12 weeks ago. 12 weeks, he squatted four times. So, like, once a month, basically.

Pretty much. Like, a little bit over, like. I mean, he probably tuned that up as he went. Probably saved those towards the end. Towards the end, get kind of tuned up, get it on his back. Because you'll need to get that groove and all that. I'm going to tell you, dude, I've never seen weight move like that. I thought I move fast.

That shit was easy. Especially how old is he? He was, this Brian Carroll we were talking about, was there when we were there. And he's still there. He was young, of course. He was up and coming. Right. He was in my weight class at the time, 220s. did he do that at was he 275 wow 308 oh he's a three he was three he was three

bills i gotta we've got that we got that uh red bull cooler up there and his head's so big right and i said dude i need to see if you can get your head in that cooler. And he barely got it in there. I mean, it's huge. Yeah. Literally almost 90 pounds extra since he was competing with us. Yeah, it looked easy, I'll have to say, the 1300. And I'm hard on people, and it was good. Yeah. It was good depth, and the speed was there.

One of the few that can't slay. I was standing by the side, and I was like, oh, shit, dude. Yeah. Who were some of the power lifters that you looked up to? I mean, I feel like in order to get to a place like 1,100, there has to be some, like, people that paved the way. Well, obviously the king, Eddie. Yeah.

You can never count him out. Dave Passanella. Dave. Obviously the first guys that are getting those, Rick Moran. Goggins. Goggins. Hatfield. Just the sheer speed that they had on that stuff.

Goggins. I mean, he opened the door. Yeah, he did 11. He was the first man to do 1,100. That was 2003. I swear to God. He had a very much horizontal spine. It was crazy. It was deep though. It was deep

and his back was parallel to the ground too. He's like super low bar with a really short torso? Yeah, super low bar. I don't think it was even... No, not a super short torso. He just good morning'd it, dude. You got to watch the video.

He just super strong. Because that was such an epic event, you know, that we were all gathered around there watching it. I'm in the back. I got hurt. Like, I got hurt. That very meet. I'm in the background like –

I'm standing there with Eddie Cohn watching it go down. And I'm like – and when he got it, I looked at him and I was like, because Eddie is very hard on squats. I'm like, bro, you got to count that. He's like, that was good. Yeah. I'm like, that was amazing. What was like the transition from 190 pounds to 308?

That's a giant. What is that, 10 years? Towards the end, yeah, about nine years. I mean, I hit the 280s probably in 2003, 2004. How many years? So about five or six. Yeah. So you're at 15 pounds a year. Something like that.

Right. And, you know, that's back in the fat era, right? Yeah. If you're fat, you're strong. But, you know But my theory – Just lay your belly on your quads and go. Somewhat. You actually – yeah.

But I kept telling guys, because this is how it worked for me, was if you put on 15 or 20 pounds, even if it's fat, if you continue to train at that weight, your body catches up to you. And it does add – it adds the muscle to it to even it out. Well, you're just carrying it. So it's like walking with a 50 pound weighted vest on all day long. And neurologically, it's the same thing. So every time, you know, it was the, so 192, I made my first giant jump to 220, right?

That's a big jump. Yeah. That's a big jump. 28 pounds. Yeah. So actually, big jump. 28 pounds. Yeah. So, actually, yeah, about 20 pounds. And then I went from 220 to, was it right to 240? Right to 240-ish.

How many times were you competing a year? At first, it was like three times. I mean, your body can only tolerate about two times a year. Yeah. That's what I should have done. That's what you should. You were a lot. Yeah, you did try to jump in there a lot.

I competed. Because I would go to compete at USPF against Eddie, and then I would do the – I was an idiot. He was a hyper guy trying to prove some shit. Yeah, I was trying to prove to who. But, yeah, that was my mistake. Ed Cohen told everyone twice a year. Yeah, Ed didn't compete much at all. Twice a year.

Yeah. Period. And, like, he would take a huge-season where he would just do bodybuilding and come off, whatever, and he would take a downtime. Then he would get back on and he would go hard. That's why he competed so long.

I was a very short time. I was only 2001 until 2005. Well, he competed in 2007, but really after 2005, I was done. Is his body still fairly healthy now that he trained or that he competed so infrequently and kind of did it in an intelligent way? He still had this double hip replacement. Yeah, double.

I mean, he competed over, like, I mean. It's like part of the. It had to be over 20 years. I'm about to say 20 years. He competed at a very high level over 20 years. Whereas, like, I always survived, like, five. You know, and he's doing 20. Yeah.

So he was much wiser. Yeah, I made it nine. Yeah. Before everything started really ripping off. Yeah. What kind of injuries were you going through? Well, the first one was a tricep in 2006, and that was just, like, a bumbling bullshit.

You know, it was a tricep in 2006, and that was just like a bumbling bullshit. It was a partial tear. But it took me out of the WPO that year. But I did get to work on my squat a whole lot more that year. Then I tore the quad off in 2007. That's a big muscle. Did you watch the video? No, no. I haven't seen it.

We can cut it into the show, though. We'll watch it later. How the fuck you guys show up Did you watch the video? Oh, no. I haven't seen it. We can cut it into the show, though. We'll watch it later. That's right. How the fuck you guys show up and not watch my video, man? I don't know that you want to watch it. Yeah, Travis. Just turn the volume down.

As Dave Tate says, it's the most gruesome injury he's ever seen. Oh, my God. I'll miss it. All right. We're going to watch it. It's worth watching. Just turn the volume down. So you don't hear the snapping?

Right. Well, the snapping and you hear my wife screaming in the background. That stuff's terrifying. That's actually the scariest thing. When you watch the Eddie Hall documentary, when he deadlifts 1,000 or whatever it is, where he sets the world record, blood's coming out, 1,100, blood's coming out of his nose, passed out,

Arnold's hitting him on the face trying to wake him up, and you see his wife's face and it's just sheer terror yeah it is i'm like i don't want to do that to anybody i don't want anybody to feel that much pain because of something i think is important i'm glad i didn't have anybody i cared about back then yeah all right well you know when i tore it off um i had sprained it. We'll get back to the video. Just turn the volume down.

Mark Bell, I think Andy filmed it, and regular speed, and then he did half speed, which is a jackass move, which is why he's called Jackass, obviously. But you can – I made a lot more noise. Once I hit the ground, I was screaming, waiting for the pain to come, right? Yeah. The pain never came the ground I was screaming waiting for the pain to come right yeah the pain never came so I was sort of in shock

and you know the whole god damn place was pins and needles right there was no there was no how much weight was on the bar

it was 1205 Jesus I just did 1135 my only business that day was 1205 right that's all I wanted was put the 12 in the books.

Yeah. I didn't care if I benched 135 and pulled 135 because I've been fighting a lot of injuries anyway, right? Right. I just wanted to get it in the books. Yeah. Right? And it was after the WPO collapsed,

and it was not anything against the guys at the Pro-Am, but it was in a real small facility, and it was just cramped. It was a bad day. All the alarms said, don't do this shit. But I was like, fuck it. I amped it up and rolled in there. When you are at the bottom. Were you able to dump the bar without hurting yourself any more than you'd already hurt yourself?

And or hurt any of your spotters? I've written the story and I've told the story many times. But, you know, on the way down, about a quarter of the way, it felt like my rear delt ripped off. I later found out it was the spinatus ripping off. But I was still holding on to the bar, and I went into the meet with a sprain in the quad. But my whole session was awesome.

It was the greatest fucking session, squatting. Talking about your warm-up and everything? No, just the whole cycle. Oh, I see. The whole cycle. Right. You know, I did three blues and a green and six plates. Wow.

And that's about 13, 13 and a quarter during the cycle. And I just had a great cycle, reverse band briefs and 11.35 or something like that. Yeah. It was just a fantastic cycle. so I felt good about the squat. But as I was going down, the spinators ripped off, and I thought it was rear delt, but I was still able to hold on to the bar, so I was like, God, fuck it. Yeah.

Right? Well, that was a bad call. You know, I got almost right to the hole, and this whole thing just felt like somebody had a little razor knife and just started doing it. Yeah. You could, like, feel the fibers coming off. Oh, yeah. Oh, nice. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. hole and this whole thing just felt like somebody had a little razor knife and just started doing it you could like feel the fibers coming off oh yeah oh yeah oh yeah oh yeah it's pretty i'm about to throw it oh yeah there we go yeah i tore it so badly that they had to lap stitch it which means they um they take the muscle and they lay it on top of each other and then they just they just

stitch it so that's what that dent is right there. Yeah, but it looks like you've got a sick teardrop now. It never really – He's cheating. He tore his quad. It never really came back. You know, this was a good one. It's a little nubby one. How does it feel?

Is it relatively normal just walking around? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Good mobility. Still squat decent with it, you know. Could you squat? Do you think you could ever get back to, like, near what you were? I don't know about 12, but I'm sure I could squat 1,000. Does powerlifting without gear interest you at all?

You know, after the tear, I did a bunch of raw stuff. Did you? Yeah. You did bodybuilding too, didn't you? Yeah, I did bodybuilding. Well, actually, yeah, I did a bunch of raw stuff. Did you? Yeah. You did bodybuilding too, didn't you? Yeah, I did bodybuilding. Well, actually, yeah, I tore it off because it was so bad that it made me sit in a chair for a month and not move it. Oh, Jesus.

So, you know, wrote articles and wrote programs and, you know, just did stuff. So I had to sit there for a month and And where the fuck were we going with this shit? Bodybuilding. Oh, bodybuilding. And I came out of it, and I was just huge, right? When I went to that meet, I was like 300 pounds. So when I came off, it was like, okay, let me lose some weight. And I couldn't, at the time, I couldn't do what I wanted to, power lift,

and I couldn't get back into it because I had to let it heal up. So I just went on this rant to do a bodybuilding show. That's probably brilliant. That's probably brilliant. That's probably exactly what you needed, like high reps, building back. Well, when you're that driven, you know, you're that driven and power lifting to be at the top, and you know how it is.

You just have to find something else to fit on. So, you know, in less than eight months, I dropped 110 pounds total and did a bodybuilding show. Wow. What was that process? Just not eating? No, I was eating. I was doing a bodybuilding diet, standard five, six meals a day.

Yeah. I did a shitload of cardio. Just walking? Yeah, I drug sled. Yeah. I pushed prowler. I made all kinds of games up. I mean, I remember one day I did two and a half hours of sled dragging.

So did you do that? Did you do any kind of just regular, like, treadmill stuff, or did you do all? You know, I did a ton of step mill, too. I think I did a stepelt for two hours one day. So you did conjugate bodybuilding, basically. Pretty much, yeah. And, you know, on boring days, I would try to do, you know, a recumbent bike or try to walk for a little bit.

What did your workouts look like? It was never enough, you know. It would have to be something kind of hard. What did your workouts look like? Oh, they were just goofy bodybuilding stuff. High reps. High reps. Get a pump were just goofy bodybuilding stuff. High reps. High reps. Get a pump. You know, machine stuff.

Because as you lose the weight, you just can't summon anything up. Were you trying to do anything specific, like bring up any lagging body parts, that type of specificity, or was this you're already big and muscular because you were powerlifting, you just need to lose body fat and you'll look great? Right. And that's what happened. I had a ton of muscle, and I just didn't care about any kind of bringing my delt up.

I was just trying to nurse all the injuries. Right. You know, I had nerve damage in the left shoulder as well from the accident. Yeah. And that took six, seven months just to get the nerves to work right. And so this delt on the backside is not, it won't grow. It's like this quad.

That's unrelated to your infraspinatus tearing off? No, it's the same thing. So I tore that off, and then I did some severe nerve damage to it. And then, so getting back to the injuries, and we'll roll back right back to it. 2009, ripped out the rest of this shoulder. What were you doing there? Just pressing.

Bench pressing? I was doing floor press. Floor press. With a fat bar. Right. Wow. And it was always that fucking thing. I think it was 435 or something.

I did two or three reps, and I was like, all right, I'm going to get one more. Of course. And I had one more, yeah. Pow. Yeah. And of course, the guy wasn't paying attention behind me, so the bar just dumped on me. Yeah. I was like, oh.

Ruptured some organs. He was a spaz and a space cadet. He was just like. And then everybody freaked out. And at 13, I ripped this one totally out. When you were 13 years old? No, 2013. 2013.

You were still going at 2013? Well, I still tried to hang. That's when I was doing a bunch of raw stuff. I'd come in and just fuck with everybody in the gear. Does most of your team now do raw? Most of them are geared. You think it's coming back? Let me ask you about that.

I mean, this is me curious. Do you think the WPL will bring gear back, or do you think it'll still keep going raw? You know, that's a tough question. I think Gear is going to keep on getting some more traction. Will it be what it was? No. So I think it'll be a mix.

Do you think the original WPO was like the pinnacle of Gear? Yeah. Me too. That was just the greatest fun ever. Ever. People were able to make money too. Yeah. He paid me. Some people complain. He didn't make any money.

He didn't make any money. Oh no, the athletes. Oh, you got a little bit of money, but it took so long to get your money because he wasn't getting any money. Yeah. Didn't it have sponsors though? It was like a...

Well, at first, you got to think about who the guy was. Karen Kidder, he's borderline mafia sponsors though it was like uh it was well at first and then uh something you know you gotta think about who the guy was karen kidder is like he's borderline mafia and like uh so like he was very shady and so towards the end i think he lost a lot of sponsors and then like his checks were bouncing he never i can't say it he never bounced a check to me nor was it late so like i have no problems with him but like donnie i think he owed Donnie money, right? Well, the last WPA, it took a long time. He did pay.

You know, I think he was in publishing or something. Or his family was in publishing. I think so. And, you know, I can't remember if he was a trust fund kid or not. That's what the rumors. There was all kinds of rumors. Yeah, there was all kinds of stuff. But I think his main problem was there were a lot of small sponsors,

and he just wanted that big sponsor. I think Twin Lab sponsored it one year. Yeah. And they put up the big money for it. That was a good year. That was when it was in Atlanta. That was when I broke Ed Cohn's record, made the most I've ever in power of the thing. Right.

Yeah, because he gave you 1,000 per world record, and I broke a bunch of world records too. So it was like 10,000 plus all these world records. It was great. If you won your weight division. Yeah. It was like 10,000 bucks. It was good.

For a powerlifter, that was a good payday. I was like, probably spit it. They all came out of the woodwork too. What was the programming leading up to, I guess, the 1205 that you didn't end up? Like, were you just still following a conjugate? Yeah, I was still following the conjugate. You know, I had a different idea about it as far as, you know, what the suit gave you.

So most of my stuff was in briefs. My theory was if you could get close to that in briefs, you were going to squat whatever you did in the meet. I was telling him earlier that one of my strength phases was reverse band box squat, but it was just like a monster mini right that's it and i did i think it was 1100 pounds or 11 just briefs on wow so so what did you anticipate doing in full gear at that point i figured i'd do the 12 easy i mean i would have to guess yes and so and that was you know with the the transfer from the briefs to the suit, I sort of, you know, I gave it 150, 200 pounds, whatever, typically.

Yeah. If you have a good suit and you know how to manage it, right? See, that's the thing about the suit is you've got to manage that. I was never good at, like. You had a little bit of a narrow stance, if I remember. Yeah, I did. I was a weightlifter first, and I squatted like a weightlifter. I never got as much out of the suits and stuff as everyone else.

The suits were just as technical as actual technical lifting. I mean, being technically sound in your lift, you had to be technically sound in the gear as well. Right? So whatever I could, I had the numbers. If I could do them in brief, I know I could do it in the suit. I always would. We would always like it.

I would do mostly that. Then I would take two weeks to do just straight weight. Yeah. I wanted to know what was about to happen. So, you know, this is part of, you know, my own personal philosophy. Everybody always wanted to do three-week runs, right? Yeah. Whatever you're doing, whatever max effort you're doing,

or whatever cycle is like a three-week cycle. And you took a deload week, right? You know, deload just means you do high volume. Right. Yeah. It's not really off. It's not really off at all. It never is. It's back when –

Some family vacations are for. Basically, the deload is just a brain break, and most people didn't understand that that's really what. We don't deload. Nobody. They say whatever. That's not a real word. We don't deload or some shit like that.

It's fine. I keep winning. It's just a brain break. Yes. You just don't have to hit numbers. So in the beginning, we would do three-week waves, and then you take the deload. But what I found was the first week was, you know,

your body's just trying to figure it out. The second week is your best week. And you come into the third week, you're either, you either barely get what you got on the second week. Yeah. Or you go backwards because your nervous system is shutting down. Yeah. So I ran a bunch of two-week cycles.

So I did the reverse bands for two weeks and then I would deload. And deload was just pushing prowler and getting in shape and things like that. And then I came back and I would do, what did I do after that? Oh, I did the regular Supermax bands. Oh yeah. Right. So, and that's where I did the three blues and the green and six plates. Yeah. It was, that was the only time any other time. He's talking about bands. You're talking about bands, right? Yes.

On each side. Three blues in our world sounds like 315 pounds because that's what a 45-pound plate is. But in bands, plus six plates. That's 300 per side. Right. Yeah. Plus the greens. Plus the green and the six plates, right?

Yeah. So you're picking up over 1,300 at the top. And that's really the whole idea of mind gear, is to get that nervous system acquainted yeah with that weight because the longer you the longer that you can hold that kind of weight i mean you do a lot of that you do a lot of that where you pick you know maximal weights up and hold them the pap yeah yeah right Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. But the stimulus factor from that is what triggers your whole body to light up. Because to hold that kind of weight, the weight settles in you when you pick it up, right? And then it has to spread. Because the usual suspects want to hold the load, Whatever your dominant muscle groups are, whatever does the

workload, whatever you train the most that wants to do the job the most. Whether it's quads, hips, whatever. Quad squad or hamstring squad or whatever, back squad or whatever you are. I mean, that's what lights up first. But when you have that kind of shit on your back,

your whole body has to go into another state to deal with. And that's the nervous system stimulus where you learn – your body learns how to deal with that kind of weight. That's the key is when you pick it up out of the rack, if it just feels like overwhelming, you're probably not going to squat it. But if you pick it up out of the rack and you feel it, like, I've got this. I've been here.

My body knows. Then I have a much better chance of squatting it. Yeah, I feel like I've never hit a squat that I felt like was heavy where you don't walk it out of the rack and you go, oh, this is light today. Like, it just sits on your back better. Your core is braced better. Like, there's something about I've never had 1,200 pounds on my back. It's all relevant to your strength level.

Whatever scares you the most. Yeah. What scares you? 600? Oh, Jesus, no. 500? Four and a quarter is my best. Okay, so 500.

I've never even deadlifted five. He thinks I'm so weak. He's a crossfitter. Here's the reality of it. You can do it right now. I can almost promise you I cannot. Your brain won't yes

correct this is my other favorite thing I like to tell people correct I like to tell people if I chopped your head off and put my head on your shoulders I'd go squat

six seven hundred pounds with your body that's the physical capacity of your body untrained right now if I trained it then I would squat a thousand with it

and I could do it. Yeah. Now that my brain. There needs to be a reason behind it. There has to be a purpose. That's the problem. That's the problem. That's the whole.

And that's also how you overcome the heavier weights and the fear of the weights and getting the body to go, okay, well, that's really not that bad. Yeah. So I always tried to go over okay, well, that's really not that bad. Yeah. So I always over, you know, I always try to go over. Yeah, me too. So if you do 13, if I'm doing 1250, 1300, when I pick up 1200, 1100, right? It's nothing. It's like, oh, okay, that's cool. What drove you?

Like, I know what drove me. Like, what drove you to do the things that we did? It was, and this is this is you know this is not everybody has their own their own demons right and and when you break when you can do something physically it transforms you mentally sure and every time I, every time I crossed a line, I just, I just obviously gained more confidence. You know,

I just, it just changed my whole outlook on everything. Yeah. Just put it this way. We wouldn't be sitting here right now

if it wasn't for fucking powerlifting. Totally. Seriously. We would not be sitting here. Because of the discipline,

because of the daily grind, because of the desire to be the best, right? You know, I always wanted, I'm going't give a fuck what other guys were doing, but I wanted to beat myself every single time.

I had a number in my head that I wanted. At that time, it was like 2,800. That was my ultimate goal. Because nobody had done it. Nobody had done it. 3,000 wasn't even in thought yet except for Gary Frank. He was the only fucker that was thinking about that kind of shit. Yeah.

So. How many people are over 3,000 these days? Like Dave Hoff? Two. Hoff did it twice, right? Donnie and Dave. Donnie and Dave. So conquering, each time coming and just conquering yourself.

Because you've got to get under the damn bar. Yeah. If you don't get under it in that challenge because you can walk away from it or you can get under it. And if you get under it, at least you try. And you're going to come back and try again. You've got to put it on there. You're going to come back and try again.

And each time, after you do it the first time, even if you fucking miss it and blow it all up, you're going to come back again because then you're mad about it. It was always conquering that to me. Was there stuff in your past that made you

need to do something so extreme? Or was it just your nature as a human that you wanted to do something so extreme? I'll be your nature as a human that you wanted to do something so extreme well i'll be honest with you i didn't do anything like athletically until um i moved to south carolina at age 12 right so i didn't have any skill sets like no ball playing skills you know you know i think my aunt got me a louisville slugger and a and a baseball before i left for south carolina yeah that's know, we were in Indiana at that time. And my dad was in the service, so he got stationed here in Sumter.

So, you know, that's when, because all my friends in the neighborhood we lived in, you know, we called ourselves the Hazel Street Gang. And every, we played every sport you imagine nonstop. So it was wiffle ball, basketball, baseball, football, street ball. Every day it was something. And you just wanted to be decent. Yeah. So that's when I started developing some athletic skills

and the desire to be better each time. Because my friends would play Bushley ball and they would play Legion ball and they were good. You know, one could have, you know, there's a couple of them that got some injuries, but, you know, they were, a lot of them went to college and played baseball and football and things like that. But, you know, it was always just chasing them, right,

wanting to be decent enough, right? And physically that was something that I could do, right? I was never a brainiac in school or anything like that. Yeah. Right? Yeah. So it was something to chase down physically I could do. Right.

So, and that's when I started lifting weights, you know, at 13, off and on for, you know, years. Yeah. But, you know, just because I was good at it. Yeah. I was always stronger than everybody else. Right. And there's your thing.

Right. But it was bodybuilding, you know, just walking around in the tight shorts and the stringer tank tops and shit. Was it a stable, enjoyable childhood, or did you have a rough childhood in any way? No, no, no. was it a stable enjoyable childhood or you have a rough childhood in any way no no no it's a good childhood we moved around a lot you know um always have food on the table and you know yeah good parents is there something about the number that drives you like is that is that in business as well or it something just in powerlifting that you saw 1,200? Chasing the number.

Yeah. Well, I mean, I came from like a CrossFit thing, so there's 1,000 numbers that I'm able to watch and judge myself. But powerlifting, there's three. What's the one that you couldn't do that you wanted? Yeah. I mean, I always wanted to go to the games, but. What's the one event you suck at that you want to be better at?

Everybody got an event they suck at. He really is a guy that's like... I don't really, like... He's like, I'm really kind of good at everything, but never... Yeah, CrossFit fit me really well because I was slightly above average at playing all sports. Like, the jack of all trades for i mean i also recognize very quickly um i was very lucky to train with people that had that were freaks like complete freaks so you had motivation um and yeah and i also saw that they were, like, sick in the head, and I wasn't.

Not that I'm not, like, motivated to win. I just saw that they were, like, sick. Yeah, that's it. AJ, you know, AJ Roberts. Yeah. He trained him at CrossFit. Oh, shit. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I've trained with a lot of people, and most of them that are sick in the head, you just kind of like, you look at them and you go, oh, that makes complete sense. Like, you can see it. Right. But you talk about like, was there a number? No, I squatted everything. I always was going squat. I actually did more Olympic lifting than I ever thought I would.

All of my numbers and everything. Like, I don't really have like a – I like playing games. CrossFit was a great game, and we did well at it. That's why I think powerlifting and Olympic lifting specifically are like things where it's like your value is based off of a number. A number. Where in CrossFit, and maybe just to me, it was like I just wanted to play the game as long as I could, as well as I could.

But there isn't like a specific number that matters. Like, your total doesn't matter in CrossFit. It's a much healthier view. Yeah, but you talk about training with sick dudes, right? Yeah. What made them sick? I mean, well, AJ's a great one in powerlifting. He was sick in the head.

He was about to die when he rolled into our gym. I think he was, in the head. He was about to die when he rolled into our gym. I think he was like 320 pounds. Like I had to – he couldn't walk to the end of the block carrying a 53-pound kettlebell without wheezing all over the place. It was really unhealthy. He did the same thing you did. He went straight into the bodybuilding. Yeah, yeah.

He got out good. He did get out good. He got out good. He got out early. He got some great numbers, strong as hell, dude, and he got out. But there's that – it comes back to that sickness, right? What drove him to be sick? Yeah.

What drove you to be sick? Just childhood. I had to prove something. Right, you're always proving something. Yeah. And that's the same thing here. I wasn't ever good at anything, so I really wanted to be really good. But it was really, and this is what, I mean, I didn't care about the emulation or any of that kind of shit.

I just wanted to be good for myself, right? Yeah. I wanted to conquer the same, I wanted to conquer my, what I consider my demons, you know, all the shit that taunts you all your life, low self-esteem or whatever it is. Whatever it is that you, whatever bites you and holds on to you. You know, I always wanted to conquer that shit, right? And powerlifting, when you got that weight on your back, dude, in your hand, you don't think a shit else. This one thing.

It's a clarity moment that when you pick that shit up and you're just like, there's nothing going on except the weight. Yeah. I'm going to kill it or it's going to kill me. You're not even thinking that. It's just a clarity moment when everything shuts off and you've got to do it. Right? And that's a sickness, right?

Yeah. And whatever sport it is, there's a sick guy. There's a sick guy that's always pushing for that envelope. Yeah. That goes, you know, that's okay. But I want to do this or this. And that was my mentality was, you know, I always wanted to do better every single time.

I remember the first time I squatted 1,000, you were there. And, you know, and the words that you said instantly transformed me to 1,100 squatter. What did I say? You said, that was so easy, you could do 1,100. Instantaneously I knew that I could do it. Just those words. Yeah.

Right? And that was a meet where I went three for nine, right? Yeah. And it was the – I was third, right? And I had a 24-03 total. And then you had Chester, and then you had JL. Yeah. Right?

One, two, three. Yeah. But that's the first time I squatted 1,000. But I missed my opener. Then I missed 1,003. And then I went to 1,008 and got it. Annihilated it. Super fast, dude.

I mean, just speed. Yeah. It was the fastest squat I've seen maybe ever. And I was like. It was pretty fast. Was that the first time that anyone had expressed the belief that you could hit 1,100? Like confidently?

They're like, yeah, you can do it. He just, the way it was said to me, it just went in my brain. I said, yeah, you can do it right now. I remember talking to Donnie, too. He was like, we were in the car in maybe at that very meet. It was in, was that like in? New Orleans. New Orleans.

And we're in the car. Senior Nationals. Yes. Beautiful day. Donnie's talking about Gary Frank. He's like, Gary Frank this, Gary Frank that. And I was like, Gary Frank, man, you could beat Gary. You should beat Gary Frank.

And then he went on to crush everybody that's ever lived. But, you know, it's just like someday you've got to say, you know, I used to echo and echo, and eventually you say, wait, somebody's got to be that cone. It's a transition you have to have in your brain that, you know, it's no longer like, oh, I'm here with these awesome people. Like, time for me to be that awesome person. And it's something that clicks,

and you're no longer in awe of anything other than. Right. It's not a you can't do it. It's not a, you can't do it. It's like, when are you going to do it? I got to do this. Right. You just drive. Yeah.

You were telling us earlier that this gym used to have more 1,000-pound squatters than basically any other gym around. The first compound was Donnie's place over on Elmwood. And it was a shithole little warehouse. It was perfect, though. It was beautiful. He made a warehouse out of it. He made an apartment out of one side, and then the gym was on the other side.

And at that time, once we got it going for a couple years, we had 4,000-pound squatters. We had two or three 900-pound squatters. It was a squad. 800-pound squatters. We had two or three 900-pound squatters. It was 800-pound squatters, which at the time, Westside didn't have that. Yeah. So we technically had more 1,000-pound squatters in one room than they did. What has changed as far as, like, the program that you write now for your team versus what you were doing when you were training?

You know, I rotate more exercises. And for a long time I stuck to the same protocols that worked for me. You know, and a lot of guys got really strong. Yeah. The same things don't work for everybody. Right. Right. So if I do write a program, which is rare nowadays,

I evaluate what the guy is good at, right? And, you know, what has he done to train his brain to get there? Right. You know, and then I go, my plan is to overstimulate the brain during training, but back off enough to elicit the recovery towards the meat, right? But you got to break them if they really want it. And that's how you – that's how I write programs. It's still a two-week on, you know, one-week volume. I like 14 or 16 weeks myself.

Right. I like longer ones now. I like even up to 20 weeks. Yeah. So, I mean, everybody was doing 12 back then, but I just couldn't focus long enough. Yeah. Because I used the first couple of two-week moves for the strength mode,

and then it was easing the gear on and doing more getting technical so capitalizing on the nervous system work and and moving that into the geared work how much is like volume and I guess volume probably the really the big one but a technical side of things as well. But going from the strength phase to actually the geared phase, I've never lifted with gear, so I don't really know how all that flows together. Say it again. I'm sorry. So the strength phase of beginning of a block

and then moving them into a geared phase in that same block, preparing them for a meet, how do those two kind of coordinate together when you're writing the program? Because I've never used gear. a block and then moving them into a geared phase in that same block, preparing them for a meet. How do those two kind of coordinate together when you're writing the program? Because I've never used gear. I don't really know much about it. I was talking about earlier just doing stuff in briefs first. I like to overcompensate during the lighter briefs and light gear and then amp it up as I go along to prepare them for the gear work

and the technical work. Did you do any full gear back there? Yeah, yeah. How many days would you spend in the full everything? Some guys got to do the full stuff. I spent – I would do two weeks of about 85%, 90%. Yeah. And then I would do openers after that, after a week off.

Yeah. And then I would do – I would cut all the full gear off and I would drop down to just briefs. And I would do like what we called an old Russian routine, which was a 5-3-3-3-5, right? Yeah. But the goal of that was to be at least, like say I wanted to squat 1,000, if I could do 800 for a triple and just briefs,

I knew I had 1,000 in the books. Right. Was there a number, like 200 pounds you thought or what? About 200 pounds, yeah. Between brief volume and the actual max effort, I thought about 200 pounds, you thought, or what? About 200 pounds. Yeah. Between brief volume and the actual max effort, I thought about 200 pounds. It's so different, like, you know, talking about raw versus, like, equipment. It's a different ballgame. It's like this one you got to, like, in equipment, there has to be that.

You know, you're going to be able to put more weight on your body than, you know, it's normally used to. So you have to get used to the bigger, the 100 pounds extra or something. Whereas in raw, I feel like it's more of a, you know, I just need to do the skill over and over and over. Yeah, I mean, there's a chance that whatever you're just taking out of the, walking out of the rack with gear on, probably on a monolith, you're not actually walking, but whatever you're taking out of the rack

with gear on, you couldn't even get off pens without the gear. You could get it off pens. I don't think I could take 600 off pens when I was squatting 400. Maybe. You could. I don't even know if I tried. If you did it high enough, you could. It'd be close.

I never really squatted that much more than you, but I did like a set of 12 with like 585 for like one inch. I could at least pick it up pretty easily. That's all leverage. That's all leverage as you come out of the hole. You know, like you could quarter squat fucking 500 right now.

Easily. You say right. I have no idea. I wouldn't even try. I have no interest in trying. The only way I'll do that is if Mash does 499 today, and then I'll have to. All right, let's do it. I'll give you 499.

He's like, yeah, easy. It's all leverage, right? So if you develop the speed out of the hole, when you get to the stronger leverage points, that's the key then it's easy you know you know once you get to those leverage points where um your body can include everything then it's a much easier thing is as the as the equipment stops helping is like if you have a lot of speed out of the hole you have so much velocity going it carries right through that

sticking point. I believe it applies to raw, too. To a degree. You don't get that out of the hole. It's the heaviest spot. Whereas when we're in the hole, it's not the heaviest spot. That's where the equipment's helped us. It's a little bit of a different speed curve.

I think you can adopt that with volume, though. You can fix a lot of that with volume. Sure. adopt that with volume though you can fix that you can fix a lot of that with volume sure i mean we do a lot like a lot we would do a lot more volume with raw than i just necessarily used to do with equipment equipment is all about like basically getting used to it it's like letting the body get used to you know this extraordinary amount of weight like did you have like a big hypertrophy phase in there as well just higher volume bodybuilding type just bodybuilding but you know getting back to you know when we first started um our max effort days were no gear you guys didn't we did no gear so and we followed strictly we did like the six weeks of good mornings the six straight

weeks of different styles of good mornings changing bars bars up, right? Yeah. And we wore no gear. And on those days, I mean, you know, towards the end, when they finally stopped working, I think we were at 750 for triples or 800 off the speed. On the good mornings? Yeah. Jesus. Yeah. So that, when you coupled with the gear, I gear, because you're developing the posterior chain

and you're developing all those muscles. Which is key for that sport. So that's where I talk about the raw is really just depends on what you use and when you use it, right? Yeah, I think there's a lot of variables. And everyone's got their strengths and weaknesses. Like, are you a quad? I'm more of a quad dominant. Because you guys were more hips. You know what you know a little bit wider stance and like

i didn't get hamstrings until i started fucking box squatting i always find that intriguing you know like it it totally changed over because i was a quad squatter because i'm kind of narrow yeah it's medium narrow right um mostly narrow because you know you thought that you were getting so much quad involved with a real narrow quad. That really wasn't the fact. But the wider stance developed so much hamstring. Yeah. And we did so much hamstring work that that's what, on my body,

that's what learned how to take the load in the bottom, the ass and hamstrings, right? Right. That's my safety net right there. Yeah. Did you intentionally try to make that be the case after you tore your quad? You're like, I've got to shift these stresses around? No, the hamstrings were always a dominant group.

So, I mean, we trained them so hard. They were traditionally, they were west side, which is west side doesn't do a whole lot of quad work at all. Right. It's all posterior. So you did six weeks, and then you would do a week of some kind of deadlift variation or a really low box squat, like a nine-inch box squat with a closed stance. You ever done a nine-inch box squat?

No. It's fucking awful. It's a long way down there. Oh, Jesus Christ. Yeah. I remember seeing— If you were to compare that to just a high bar back squat. For some people, it would be like that.

You have to high bar it, too. Yeah. You have to high bar because you can't get that low. Yeah, your torso just can't bend over like that. I remember watching Chuck Vogelpoel do those. It was just like what he had to do to get down there was, like, basically contort his body. Oh, yeah. It's like a carnival act. it was just like what he had to do to get down there was like basically contort his body oh yeah

yeah it's like it's like a carnival act the only thing about west side that made me question would be like watching chuck squat it looks so uncomfortable but if he hit that perfect groove right the box yeah his box with his legs yeah like he could barely pick it up out of the monolith he would fall stumble stumble and then all of a sudden he hits that groove and it's like he's locked in. And then it was fast. But I was like, I never wanted to be that uncomfortable. I wanted to be coordinated,

more coordinated. He would stumble around, stumble around. And like, as competing against him, I was like, well, there's a good chance he bombs out and it's going to be an easy win. But if he gets a squat in, then we're in a battle. So normally he bombed out, though. So I was like, you know, except for once. He didn't.

I mean, I was used to whoever was doing what I thought was really strong. I always picked out whatever that I thought they were doing well. And I was like, okay, I need to incorporate that. Well, if you watch Chuck's squat, his fucking length is like a perfect box. Right? So it looks like fucking right angles. Yeah. And I was like, because his shins aren't moving,

he's pushing back as hard as possible. So he's maximizing, he's shortening the distance, obviously, but he's also maximizing. So he's loading as much as possible. Right. Which is always what I was, my goal was how can I load everything optimally at every inch of the movement because it changes at every inch of the movement. As you go down, the leverage is dominant.

All your muscle groups change, right? So I always thought, how do you maximize each inch of the movement? So everybody, I would just look at how they did their squats, and I would look and I'd say, okay, well, I'm going to try to adopt that into mine. Yeah. Right. And then, of course, trial and error. Yeah.

But, you know, I always worked on just extreme acceleration all the way through the top. You can see that. Your speed. Even Donnie's speed was – Yeah. The way y'all trained, it was obviously west side. I think that's something a lot of people miss, too, when they're just training is not thinking about speed. That's the point is maximizing the technical work but also enough weight.

Yeah. Enough stimulus to actually get it to work. I mean, do the bands really help with that too? There's such an acceleration factor to having band tension? Bands and chains, yeah. They make a big difference. What do you like better, bands or chains, both? I'm almost a band guy.

Me too. Now, later on, I've gotten to a lot of chains. We made a bunch of products that would hold a lot of chains because back then it was just the regular quarter inch and you'd just slip through there. Quarter inch chain going around the bar and then you'd have to get it to your height. It was a pain in the butt.

Oh, it was terrible. And then you slipped the chain through. I had the bands because of what you just said. My, it's too much work. And also because the number factor. Yeah. Because, you know, you're looking for that 100 pounds per blue, right? Right.

So you're looking for that number on each side to get as much as you can at the top and stimulate the body as much as possible. Bands were definitely like a complete game changer for me. He's not buying what I'm playing. Oh, I'm completely buying. I think he is. Pay me. Yeah, yeah.

Hey, hook it up. Hopefully all the people listening will. Yeah. That's right. So let's talk about, I'm curious now about how you grew, you know, this business. I mean, you know, I know training is awesome, but I'm intrigued. Like, when did you start the whole, you know, I remember, like, kind of going away from the sport.

The minute I come back, it's like you dominate with your straps. You know, it's been a long, hard road. It wasn't a, everybody thinks you just wake up and the shit's there, right? But, you know, Dom was making some straps early on, right? And it was just stuff that we could use that, you know, like long abstract was one of the first ones just because it was too hard to hold the shorty, right? Right.

And so, you know, we had all these little personal products for ourselves. And one day I was like, you know, we need to start a business with this. Right? Yeah. So I said, hey, dude, you want to do this? And he was like, no, no, you can have it. So I was like, we need to start a business with this, right? Yeah. So I said, hey, dude, you want to do this? And he was like, no, no, you can have it. So I was like, okay. Okay.

Right? So then I started just, you know, selling a few products online. And that's back when, you know, the wife had put, you know, I was like, look, we need a website. And that's back when Front Page was first coming out. And she just took Front Page and, you know, we had our first website. And we were selling, I don't know, three or four products. What were the first products?

You had a belt squat, strongman harness. You had the sled strap, upper body strap. Obviously the long ab, short ab. What else did we have early on? Oh, deadlift straps. No one was making a really good deadlift strap back then. For straw man? Well, for anything.

Of course. The first ones we made were just regular straps, and you can't wear them out. Yeah, they're so thick. Right. And so that was one of our main first products. And over the years, I just kept trying to add products and add products. My thought was that over time, it was a niche market, right? Right.

So I just kept it on a down low. Dave sold it and other people sold it, and I just kept plodding along adding products to it right and you know my theory was the second somebody sees you making money at something they're going they go in they go all in competition right and everybody's on top of you so i just laid low and i didn't you know i just kept adding to the business every year and adding new products and innovative products and i had had a great staff that were you know that helped contribute and make a lot of products too yeah and and it was just always trying to fill a need that we all saw in whatever sport there was you know it could be powerlifting

or strongman or um you know bodybuilding whatever crossfit i see your stuff in every gym now. Right, right. So we just kept plodding along with it and just building year by year. So the more stuff, and obviously we have, you know, we put out a bunch of funny videos just goofing off, right? And that attracted an audience that most fit us, right? Which is just a bunch of regular dudes, right? And women too, just regular people. And so we just kept adding those products over the years. And it just kept growing and growing, and people wanted to sell them.

Were you still training people now, or had you gone all in? No, no, no. I didn't go all in until – and I did a whole bunch of other shit in between. Right. So that was one arm of the company that we were building. But at one time – okay, so let me back up a little bit more. When I tore my quad off, I devoted so much to powerlifting because that's all I wanted. Right.

I mean, if you want something bad enough, you really give it everything. Right. And that was my focus. Me too. I mean, I fucking trained people eight, nine hours a day. Yeah. You know, personal trained them just to make money to go powerlifting. Right?

Yeah. To pay for everything. That was the whole point. That was it. That's all the reason why you did it. Right? And then when I tore my quad off, I woke up and I was like, I ain't got shit. I ain't got no money.

I mean, I've got a good powerlifting career. That's like the story of strength athletes. Yeah, yeah. You wake up and you didn't have it. I think that's one of the reasons we go back. It's like, well, if there was a thing you left, it's like, what am I going to do? Chase nothing? Right.

Chasing nothing sucks. Yeah. Absolutely. So then you decided. So then I said, okay, I've got to make some money? Right. Chasing nothing sucks. Yeah. Absolutely. So then you decided. So then I said, okay, I've got to make some money, and I made a 10-year plan. I opened by 50 to be doing well. I had a lot of setbacks, you know. That's the one thing about most people when they ask me this question is I'm like a bull charging in.

I just charge in, and I go, okay, what the fuck am I going to do now? Yeah. And then I build. What I'm saying is I made a shitload of mistakes. Yeah. I mean, I always tell people, I always do shit the hardest way possible. Right. Because after that, it's all easy.

And that's the same thing with powerlifting, too. What are some of the big mistakes? Yeah. I want to hear the mistakes for sure. Oh, shit, dude. I mean, I bought a supplement store. I remember that.

One time I thought that was going to be the main business. So I bought a friend's supplement store because he wanted out. And I was already trying to get in before. Like a year before, he wanted to sell, but then he wouldn't sell. So that's when I tore my quad off.

I actually bought the store and was crippled and walked around in crutches when I bought the store. And it was a shithole. I mean, it was mine. It was like 700 square feet. But that's where I cut my teeth in the supplement business. Right. So. I used to buy some of them.

I'd call you and buy some of them and that's you know right when the big pro hormone thing hit when all these other when all these other great formulas came out that you know i mean you really didn't know what was in there but nobody was it worked i don't know it was awesome all i know is like whatever i bought from you was working it was some good ass shit i mean guys put on 20 30 pounds so. So, I mean, they was probably laced with D-ball or something. Who cares? That was the Mark McGuire formula. All I knew is that it was legal. I'm not going to get in trouble for it.

Microdosing trend. When I bought the store, there was nothing in the store. And that's when I started doing all the other supplements and building on that, cutting my teeth. With developing your own supplements? Or just selling other people's supplements in the store? Yeah, just learning the store, how the business operated. Was it mainly just here or were you selling online already? We hadn't started selling online yet.

So my goal then was to, I wanted to have about eight stores and then franchise out. So I learned how to build stores and over over the next three years, I had four stores. All profitable? Yeah. Awesome. You spend the first year, you know. Figuring it out. Figuring it out.

I bought that store, and then I put a store in the gym, And then another year later, I opened another store. My goal was to have a store 10 minutes away from everywhere. Because nobody wants to drive more than 10 minutes. That's true. So I always had a philosophy as far as what I was trying to do business-wise. And, you know, most people didn't quite get that. It's truth. Yeah, 10 minutes.

About 10 minutes. People won't drive any farther than that. So I wanted to have one situated within 10 minutes of everywhere in town, and I did that. And they were very successful, but at the same time it was very hard to keep them equipped. I mean, keep them staffed with people that had the same philosophy as you did. So it was a headache.

Yeah, yeah. So I just a headache. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I just couldn't keep anybody in there. But one of the biggest mistakes was I put contract postal units in two of them. It wasn't really that big a mistake. You put what? You put what? They had what they call contract postal units.

Like if you go to like a convenience store and they got a postal place in there, that's a contract unit that gets paid. To mail stuff. To mail stuff. To have a little facility. So I had two of those trying to get more foot traffic into the stores. And, you know, we learned a lot about the shipping part of it. But it was just, it wasn't a winner.

I never made any money. So that was one of my major mistakes. Yeah, yeah. Right. Did you lose? Did you lose money off of it? About broke even. Right, right.

Right. But I had a lot of jobs and I gave people jobs. That's cool. And it was a neighborhood kind of thing where people would come by and you know you got to know the whole neighborhood that's awesome that's good yeah so i mean so i was doing i got up to four stores and the two post offices and then the spud line and we were building on that every year and and that just got to be too much. So I closed two of the stores, and that's when I started focusing on the spud stuff.

But I still kept the two stores. So I've got this one here, and then I've got another one across town. Oh, so you still have two. I still have two. So I have one in the same area that I originally bought a store in. Dang, so it's been going how many years? It's over a decade. Over a decade. I bought a store in. Dang, so it's been going how many years? It's over a decade. Over a decade.

I bought it in 2007. When you have supplement stores, what products sell the best? All the testosterone boosters and the fat burners. Yeah. The good stuff. I mean, you've got pre-workout. Pre-workout. I forgot about pre-workout.

Pre-workout, fat burner. If you've got crack in a pre-workout, you sell shit out of it. Totally. That's right. And everybody wants it., you sell shit out of it. Totally. And everybody wants it. Travels are buying it right now. DMAA, DMAA. Welcome, sir.

That shit was becoming illegal. We called Europa and were just like, send us just everything you have. They had craze. Remember that? I never had craze. It was pretty much synthetic meth. Oh, yeah. We had Jack 3D and O? I never had craze. It was pretty much synthetic meth. Oh, yeah. It's fantastic. Yeah, we had Jack 3D and Oxy Elite Pro and all that.

All that USP Lab stuff. Did you guys ever have, what was that one? It was better than cocaine, crystal meth, anything you've ever wanted. My wife and I took it. It was like a little red pill. And literally, you'd be up all night. Oh, really? Yes.

Was that that Slim fx no it wasn't it wasn't even trying to pretend to be like this diet thing it was straight like saying this is cocaine basically and i love it it was better it only lasted on its oh venom venom i remember venom oh it's great like i should have bought all of it. It was a bright red. Bright red. Yeah. I gave one. My wife and I took it together the first time.

Somebody gave us one. Let's get jacked up. Took all night. I'm at 3 a.m. I'm wide awake. I literally had to get up, go get some NyQuil, come back. That's how bad it was. I'm like, what am I taking?

Did NyQuil even actually touch it? Finally, by 4 or 5, I finally fell asleep. It was incredible. There was like no doubt there was something in there I should not have been taking. But I'm glad. The look on your face says that you really want to take it again. Oh, yeah. It was right there.

Right now. You're like, oh, God damn, that was awesome shit. Yes. I would be dead if it had been legal from then until now. I would be dead. You probably had some meth in it, dude. It was great. Whatever it was, hats off.

You were up for 24 hours? It was great. So then you start taking off with Spudline. Oh, yeah. Then the Spudline, we kept just gathering more and more people who wanted to resell. They wanted to sell online. How many people do you have that you wholesale? Oh, sell two.

I don't know. 40-ish. 40-ish. Yeah. So, like, obviously Elite, Soarin' X, Rogue. Most of the big guys carry our stuff. Yeah. And then there's lots of, you know, Starting Strength and lots of other smaller retailers,

you know, Amazon retailers. Perform Better and all that too? Perform Better, they like their own brand, so they don't really. I think they tried for a little while, but it didn't have their name on it. And they like some very high-priced, super expensive. It's not the best stuff. I agree. I didn't say that out loud but we did

both of us did very well and we both just said it nonchalantly we'll never we will never do a seminar for performing now we're gonna

now we're gonna get sued or some shit but it's true whatever so now we're in this 10,000 square foot facility

and like so now is this the pinnacle of your career, would you say? Like, business-wise? Um,

I would say that it's, it's pretty close. There's more room and I continue to, my drive is just to make more products, make great products.

Do you have, do you like sit down and have R&D sessions where you try to come up with new stuff? Does that just happen like it's always happened? It just pops out of my head or 2 o'clock in the morning. That's a good time. That's usually

the time. Seinfeld talks about creativity. It's like a mouse popping up in the room. You see it scatter away. If you don't catch it right away, it'll never come back. At midnight is when my brain works. It's like the Army Combat Fitness Test. We had no idea they were using our slip. back at midnight at midnight yeah well it's like it's like the uh the army combat fitness test

right you know we had no idea they were using our slip i didn't know too yeah i had no idea we had no idea and then and then you became the standard and then all of a sudden we're part of the test right wait what was that guy's name we interviewed him that created that out of ocean what was his name damn it we interviewed him i don't remember you interviewed him with us you were on that show i don't remember i mean i remember being on show but i remember i'm sorry yeah yeah the guy that put that all together right he was power lifter from uh from the army i want to lose name sounds familiar. I totally remember, but I can't. He was on the Army powerlifting team. So he probably has followed –

Yeah, he's probably followed a bunch of your stuff. Bro, I'm so – like, I think about, like, the people that were in that era, that little WPL era, and you think about, like, especially you and Donnie and a few other people have really impacted the strength and conditioning, you know, world forever, probably, you know. Like, you and Donnie have created more products. Like, it was Louie up until that moment, and I think from then on, I would say you and Donnie by far have impacted more than even Louie Simmons.

Yeah. We've mentioned Donnie a number of times. Like, what's your relationship with him? Oh, dude, we trained together for seven years, man. I mean, we cut our teeth in powerlifting. Together? Yeah. We have a good relationship. We make his bow tie.

I go over and talk shit to him every once in a while. But you just got to be careful getting caught up in the Donnie vortex. I try not to get caught up. You know what I'm talking about. I do know. The vortex is, say you're going to stop by for an hour. Fuck it, it's four or five hours later. He's just talking to you off?

Oh, yeah, he talks to you off. Sorry, Donnie, but I'm going to tell him. He tells all the same stories over and over again. And that's how I get out. He'll start telling the story to somebody. I'll see you later. I've got to go. I've heard this one.

I've heard this one i've heard this one i got i was there but it's uh it's always it's always um it's always fun tell your best donnie uh donnie thompson um story oh god damn dude there's so many of them i've got some good ones to myself yeah um this is one of my – okay, so this goes back when we first started powerlifting, right? And he was – well, we just started. And he was lean Donnie back then. I remember. So there's big powerlifting Donnie, you know, 380. He always said he was 380, but he had to be 400. It's four bills plus.

100%. He just kept saying, no, no, no, no. I was like, dude, you're 400. He stopped at 380. I'm like, how did you get bigger and stay 380? Thermodynamics. I stopped weighing myself. Yeah, exactly what happened.

Back then when he had the commercial gym and he had gotten so frustrated with the commercial gym business, he was about 240, and he had the fiance, and, you know, she was a bit – Much. That's the word. You know, I mean, she was a lot like that. But, you know, he also – Takes one to know one.

He loved the drama, right? Totally did. Look at him. She was all the time upsetting him. And one time – this is when we first start doing wheelbarrow a lot because it's just Louis like you know do your GPP right and so we had this wheelbarrow loaded up a concrete blocks and shit and you know he was he was he was doing extra wheelbarrow work walking around a building with shirt off and he

ripped right so he's walking that he's walking it's just hard to imagine oh Jesus I've seen the pictures this is the funniest shit in the world, dude. And he's walking, and he's crying. He's crying over this girl while he's going real far. Oh, my God. And I stop at one of the openings, and I'm like, dude, you okay? You don't get it. Oh, my God.

And, you know, he has his shirt off, and he's bodybuilding Donnie, so he's ripped up. I swear to God, that was the funniest shit in the world. So every time I see him, I bring that one up. I can't wait to see him. I'm going to be like, I heard about the time. Wilbur O'Brien? No chance.

I would have cried. Oh, my God. He loved that one, too. So, I mean, there's just so many stories, dude. He's such a sweet dude. Like, at times, he's a a sweet dude like um at times he's a sweet dude but yeah he's like i remember he's a good dude he went when we were in new orleans you know and we went out that night and uh he uh he wanted to buy a uh sex toy for his girlfriend

and uh christy chris's wife went in and helped him pick one out for her. And they come out with this big glass dildo that you could like put in the freezer or you could warm it up. It was just so weird, too, to see Christy, who's like this little bitty thing, and Donnie, who's this 400 pound monster, come out with this. Anyway. I'm probably going to get in trouble by my wife telling that story. That's gorgeous. I don't know if it beats the wheelbarrow crime, bodybuilding Donnie

with his shirt off. I don't remember. He competed in 242, right? Yeah, he actually did the Westside meet and he dropped down to 220. And Louie beat him, right? He. I mean, he actually did the west side meet, and he dropped down to 220. And Louie beat him, right? He bombed out in that meet. Oh.

So Louie did beat him, yeah. That was the west side invitational. Yeah. And he dropped all that weight and just didn't have anything. Yeah. That's when Louie said, you can't power lift a 220. Yeah. what's wrong with you

you gotta be at least 300 pounds and that was about the time that he just said fuck it and he started

putting weight back on because he'd been a football player arena football player he was about

300 down but it wasn't like the power lift in 300 Donnie I do believe people give him a hard time about squat but it wasn't like the power lift in 300. Yeah. Donnie. I do believe, you know, people give him a hard time about, you know,

squat, height, depth. I believe he's the best power lifter of all time. Yeah. I agree with you. So, I mean. Except for Hoff. If they had been in the same era, I would probably go with Donnie. Okay.

If they were in the same era, if they went head-to-head, I just think Donnie could keep going. Did you have like a – we've talked about your squat for the last hour, really, but like deadlift and bench, were those specialties like – Well, the bench was pretty good because I got little T-Rex arms. Yeah. You know, so it was good. You benched over eight, didn't you? Seven and a half.

Seven and a half. Seven and 44, something like that. The problem was, you know, I'm sponsored by metal, and everybody's, you know, these are some things that I just didn't. I should have found a way to do it. I should have got a better shirt. Yeah. And then I could have bashed a lot more.

But, you know, I was still bashed seven and a half in that – was it the bash? I can't remember. Yeah. You know, we were definitely like not – you know, we were sponsored by metal. And it was a disadvantage because I put on that – this is where Dave and I's relationship went south. It was like Enzer sent me one of their Leviathans, and I put that on and squatted 11.35, the minute I put it on, which was like way over what I'd done in his stuff.

And someone made a video, and then Dave saw it. Dave Tate? Dave Tate saw it. And then that was the beginning of it. I didn't mean for it to be on. I did not mean for it to be videoed, but somebody videoed it and put it on. He saw it. But we were disadvantaged.

So I think Enzer's stuff started. Was it hat? I was very pleased with the metal squat suits. The ace on ace. I was like gold. But if I had a better shirt. And then deadlift wise, it was like gold. But if I had a better shirt, and then deadlift-wise, it was just always my nemesis because of short arms.

Yeah. But couldn't you pull, I've heard stories of you pulling like near 900, but just couldn't quite lock it out. Is that true? Well, you know, just typical like high rack shit, like with straps, yeah. What about off the ground? Like Donnie had told me that you could get a ton, you just couldn't finish the lockout.

I was always a popper. I called either your lockout guy or a popper, or a popper off the floor. Yeah. You know, if you get it to, some guys get it to their knees and lock out anything. I could get anything to my knees, but I couldn't lock it out. So I always struggled with that too.

And I didn't understand um it's probably because you can good morning 800 pounds if if I if I had been hook gripping if I learned how to hook grip my big fat hands you know so it was really hard and short thumbs but I didn't have anybody train me in it either so I probably could I remember talking to you about the hook grip so and trying it but it it was just that, you know, I mean, my hands are. That just shortens the range of motion just a tiny bit. But just remember, I weighed 300 pounds, so the pads here were like this. It was so hard to try to tuck.

And I didn't really understand the concept. You know, I didn't. Nobody really taught me how to do it. It was natural for me because of weightlifting, you know. When I saw Gillian do it, then I'm like, that makes total sense. What it does to me is like two things. It's like the minute you supinate, at that point, your bicep is going to work. It's going to be incorporated.

And so it's going to make you do this. But when you're like this, it's just so much easier to let it hang. So it cuts an inch or two. Oh, at least an inch or two. And it takes the pressure off your bicep. And also the lever stays to you. Yeah. Because it rides up your body and it stays more hip.

If you can stay behind the bar, yeah. It's much easier. Well, when it rides up, I mean, it's just coming up with you versus the – You can use your thumbs to survive it pretty well. Oh, yeah. I only tried it like one time. Like I pulled like 400 pounds to see what it felt like and was like, fuck, I'm not doing that.

Right, yeah. I did 804. That was painful. Yeah, it's terrible, dude. You got to build that tolerance up. Well, to me it was like just because of all the years of weightlifting, it was nothing, you know. Yeah.

And I'd already clean and jerked 190 kilos. I'd already clean and jerked 190 kilos. I'd already clean and jerked 418. So, like, once you can get 400, it's no different. 800, 400, they're dead. It's like there's no nerves left. Right, right. It's still dead. Like, it doesn't hurt at all.

Yeah. Yeah, no, no, no. No, I did the most I ever hook grip double overhand was 815 in training. And I did 804 in competition. Yeah. So, yeah, the deadlift was always the worst, and I actually got it. And also it was always I gave so much on the squat and the bench, I didn't learn volume in order to get me through the meet.

So I only had one or two lifts going into the deadlift. Yeah, at the very beginning you were talking about running five miles after training. Yeah, 13, 14. Yeah, when you're – When he's a kid. Yeah, but no, but I think that fitness is like one of the biggest components, especially when it comes to like a powerlifting meet,

which is like this eight-hour long ridiculous ordeal to stay focused that long. All for like 40 seconds yeah platform did you did you even focus on that much in your training it just um you know that's where i was going with the deadlift was um you know we had it in finland that one time 2005 i don't think you went to that i didn't go to that right so and i went dad died. Oh, that's right. Yeah. But I went over to Finland, and for some reason, I just lost all my confidence that day. I just had a shitty day.

I was off everywhere. Managed to get a squad in, and then they DQ'd me on the bench for moving my foot. Were they being super strict? He was. He was. He just wanted to prove a point. Yeah. Yeah. Afterwards, we went out to the Italian restaurant, Harold Salon. Were they being super strict? He was. He was. He just wanted to prove a point. Yeah. Yeah.

Afterwards, we went out to the Italian restaurant, Harold Salon. Salon? Salson? Salson, the German guy. Yeah. He rolled a fucking, you know, we're all eating, and he was trying to be nice about it,

but at the same time he was being a dick about it. Who, Harold? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He said, you moved your foot, you were DQ'd. I was like, dude, I moved it like an inch. Yeah. I flew all the way out here for you to DQ me. And you need to talk shit to me tonight.

Right. I better beat your ass. And then he's rolling up a goddamn frying pan. I'm like, dude, it's bombed out. But in bombing out, it made me just laser focus on the deadlift. And my goal when I came back was to learn how to sumo, right? Which makes total sense because you're a wide squatter. Wide squatter, take advantage of all those levers, right?

Totally. And there were other factors in it, but when I came home, I automatically just focused on the deadlift, and I led into it because I'd never really gotten shape, shape, shape. Mm-hmm. Right? So I devoted a specific Saturday instead of squatting. It was always speed deadlifts, right?

So I started out with three conventionals and two sumos, right? And then the next week I tried to do three sumos and two conventionals and I worked on keeping the bar to me obviously easing it off the floor so I would stay in a good lever that's always the ticket is a lot of cats instead of me popping it off the floor and being out of position

which is what would always happen your ass comes up or the bar goes forward or whatever the problem is you gotta bring that shit back into a good lever, right, in order to finish the lift. And you're already gassed. Yeah. So I spent three months, three months, four months,

whatever it was getting to the finals, just working on sumo. And, you know, I started out with, you know, what I considered, I think it was 60%. So I did 500 for five sets of triples. And this is boring shit, but by the end of the cycle, I was doing 635 for triples, both conventional and sumo, strictly by changing the form up and working on the form and getting in shape. And I was also pushing the prowler twice a week.

That's a huge part of it. I think that's where power throughs missed the boat. So that's where my volume went up, and that's where getting my wind up and getting recovery was such a huge factor. I went into that meet where the first time I squatted 1,100, benched 7.5, and we goofed up the calls because I just didn't want to be involved, you know. Yeah. But by the time I did my third one, which was 7.38, which was the call me on,

so I was always struggling around 6.3, right, low sevens. So I did 740 easy, but my knee was unhinged a little bit. Really? Yeah. What was this now? This was March at the Super Finals in 2006. I came in at 283 and, you know, dropped down to 275. That was just the primo fight and wait for me.

Right. So I got done with all three deadlifts, and I'm telling you now I could have done three or four more. I could have done the whole meet because I was in such fantastic shape. Yeah. That was always my secret is, like, I was super conditioned. Yeah. Yeah.

I was never tired. Like, I remember in Atlanta where I took, like, 11 literally. Because, you know, they give I was never tired. I remember in Atlanta where I took like 11 literally. Because, you know, they give you that fourth attempt. If you made your third, you could take a fourth if it's a world record. So I literally took, you know, 11 attempts. And I was just. Yeah. Yeah. So.

Most people would be like, when they come to deadlift, they'd be like, just done. It was like one good deadlift and that was it. Yeah. I'd be like. That was. It was like one good deadlift and that was it. Yeah. Rod would be like, that was, I mean, the goal was always 800 and I was, like I said, low sevens puller and that day, that day, I could have done it. Yeah. But it was just, you know, poor going in, poor

planning going into the last part of the day. Yeah. I didn't expect to be in such good shape going into it. So, I mean, I didn't expect to do all three deadlifts and still be like, oh, shit, I can do a lot more. What was your best meet ever? From that standpoint, that was the best meet ever. Because I left probably, I mean, honestly, I left at least 50 or 70 on the squat. And I fucked the bench up.

I think I could have got 775 that day or 770-ish. And deadlift, I just fucked that all up. I mean, I feel like I could I could have got 775 that day or 770-ish. And deadlift, I just fucked that all up. I mean, I feel like I could have pulled 770 or 800 that day. I definitely think we changed. I think that era changed. Because forever, powerlifting had been stagnant until that moment. And then it was like 2,400 was the pinnacle. No one could go over it.

No one was ever going to beat Ed Cohn. It was just like all of us. It was like you, Goggins, me, like Donnie, like just Vogelpool. We're just crushing records. And then there stopped being ceilings. It was like sometime in there, nobody had a ceiling anymore, you know. Well, that's the whole thing with the Raw face. You know, I think that all these fantastic Raw numbers that you see now,

I mean, it's totally changed. But, you know, it was also, I think, because of the things we did. The things that the prior people did to us, we wanted to beat the shit out of it, right? Right. Right? So we did everything we could to fucking win. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, and get the number. Yeah. No matter what anybody fucking says, it's always about getting the number. Totally. It's about pushing the number. Yeah. No matter what anybody fucking says, it's always about getting the number. Totally. It's about pushing the ceiling. Yeah. And then after that, that's when all the raw numbers started jumping up

because the mindset changed. Our mindset changed during our level. And I think that them, you know, the raw guys coming out, they're like, fuck those guys in the gear. Same shit. Fuck them. I'm going to beat them. I'm going to beat them. And that's when all these great raw guys coming out, they're like, fuck those guys in the gear. Same shit. Fuck them. I'm going to beat them. I'm going to beat them.

And that's when all these great raw numbers came out. Good for them. Yeah. And that's how it goes. But nowadays, also, I don't think because you see everybody's, you know, everybody's fucking pulling 8, 900 now. Yeah. I mean, all these guys, that mindset changed too because back when we were

coming up, a 700 was like an 800 and 800 was like a 900 that was like gold yeah 800 was gold everybody shot for that now 800 to walk in the park people repping that shit yeah 900 and then you got guys guys doing you got 242 pound guys doing a thousand yeah like yeah things have changed a lot so it's always a mindset change that's any sport there has to be that shift. It's like, I'm done being afraid of this number. Let's push it. Well, you have that one freak that opens the door.

Like, Goggins opened the door on 1,100. And everybody's like, let's do it. Gary Frank. I think Gary Frank opened the doors to a lot. Because we just saw him every time, 100 pounds. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, 2,500, 2,600, 2,700. And then everybody's like, it was then.

There was no more rules. Yeah. It was like, let's go. Right on, man. This has been a lot of fun. Yeah, man. Where can people find you in Spud and get all the straps? Spud-Inc-Straps.com.

There it is. That sounds like a commercial. Social media. He said that before. Oh, yeah. We're on social media, Instagram. Spud Inc. On Facebook. Yeah, Spud Inc. before. Oh, yeah. We're on social media, Instagram. Spud Inc. on Facebook. Yeah, Spud Inc.

Everything. Yeah. Beautiful. Very simple to find us. Coach Travis Mash. Mashlead.com. Thanks for having us, man. Yeah, pleasure.

This was awesome. Thank you guys for coming and hanging out, man. Yeah, yeah. Doug Larson. Find me on Instagram, Douglas C. Larson. I am Anders Varner, at Anders Varner. We're BarbellStruck, to Barbell underscore Struck. Get over to BarbellStruck.com forward slash DieselDad.

Strong, lean, and athletic. All the cool dads are hanging out, right? Travis Mash has even got friends in there. Did you even know they were in there? I didn't until the other day. Courtney Tate was in my wedding, and he's like, I'm digging this program of mine. Look at that.

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