Barbell Shrugged - Optimizing Performance with Renaissance Periodization Founder Dr. Mike Israetel

Episode Date: March 7, 2018

Dr. Mike Israetel is co-founder and Head Science Consultant at Renaissance Periodization, a company dedicated to providing competitive and non-competitive athletes with scientifically backed methods of improving performance and altering body composition. Dr. Israetel has a PhD in Sport Physiology and has taught Exercise and Sport Science. He has also coached numerous powerlifters, weightlifters, bodybuilders, and other individuals in both diet and weight training, including consulting on sports nutrition to the U.S. Olympic Training Site in Johnson City, TN. In this episode, we dive into why you shouldn’t be overly enthusiastic about your training program, maximum recoverable volume, what it takes to be a strength & conditioning coach, and much more. -Mike, Doug and Anders ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please support our partners! Thrive Market is a proud supporter of us here at Barbell Shrugged.  We very much appreciate all they do with us and we’d love for you to support them in return!  Thrive Market has a special offer for you.  You get $60 of FREE Organic Groceries + Free Shipping and a 30 day trial, click the link below: https://thrivemarket.com/shrugged How it works:  Users will get $20 off their first 3 orders of $49 or more + free shipping.  No code is necessary because the discount will be applied at checkout.  Many of you will be going to the store this week anyway, so why not give Thrive Market a try! Organifi is another great company with whom we’ve chosen to partner.  They offer a premium line of health supplements you can use to optimize your body.  Doug and Mike use their products everyday and highly recommend you give them a try.   If you’d like a discount you can use the code “shrugged” to instantly get 20% off your order, click below to check out their supplements: https://organifishop.com ► Subscribe to Barbell Shrugged's Channel Here http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Barbell Shrugged helps people get better.  Usually in the gym, but outside as well.  In 2012 they posted their first podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast. Find Barbell Shrugged here: Website: http://www.BarbellShrugged.com Facebook: http://facebook.com/barbellshruggedpodcast Twitter: http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged Instagram: http://instagram.com/barbellshruggedpodcast

Or do you want to go up against a guy who thinks he's a machine and has optimized every part of his process? He's just exactly enough to be the best. He lives everything in his life is lined up to fucking headlock you and kill you. He doesn't have emotions. He eats exactly as he's supposed to, sleeps exactly, trains exactly everything the coach says. You're like, I have to wrestle that man? Is he a machine? That's not a person.

Hold on. I want to live. I want to pull out of the competition. I don't want to do this shit anymore. Who do you want to be? Welcome to Barbell Shrugged. I'm Mike Blutzer here with Doug Larson, Anders Varner, and we have a cool guest today, Dr. Mike Isretel, and we're going to be diving into some really scientific shit. I'm super excited.

I'm super excited because I had heard about this man, and then I met him at the CrossFit Games this last year, and I was really pleased by the conversation. Sometimes you hear all sorts of impressive stuff about someone from certain backgrounds backgrounds and then they're just boring. So this is not Mike. So setting the expectations super high for you. Great. Don't screw this up. I will underhand them greatly. Will do. Now, so first off, we have a couple couple sponsors. First being Organifi. Great supplements. Was it Anders we were talking about, the green juice? Because Mike's not familiar with Organifi.

Not much of a supplement person. Not particularly. Maybe we'll get into it later. Yeah. I take this one. This one's easy. It gives you a little scooper. You get all your vitamins and minerals. No freebasing.

That's the kind of thing I'm used to. You can freebase if you want to. I call them supplements. My parole officer seems to disagree with me. He can't hear this, right? So we're good. He doesn't know you're in California right now. Sweet.

Oh, God, that's another issue. I'm, like, checking you'm checking you for ankle bracelets now. Did you break out of your house? I've got a chip. They put it in the chip now, like RoboCop type shit. It's injected into your skull? Yeah. That's what you got.

Is that why the helicopter just flew overhead? All right, folks, time to wrap it up. No, Organifi, they have a lot of really great supplements. They led with their green juice, which is phenomenal. Took that this morning. And they also have a lot of other things. Got red juice, which is Doug's favorite. That's my favorite for sure.

I take the red juice, the probiotic pills, and the turmeric pills. Those are my three go-tos. Every morning? Well, the pills I usually take in the evening, but the juice I usually have with breakfast. Baller? Yeah, and I drink the gold before bed. Which I don't have any of that yet. Wait, what's the gold one?

I need to get the hookup on some gold. That sounds special. The gold does have some turmeric as well, reishi, mushrooms, and a few other things. Some magnesium, things that help your body relax. So some anti-inflammation type stuff and relaxation stuff. You do the medicinal mushroom thing? It depends on what context we're discussing the medicinal mushroom thing. Medicinal mushrooms.

The other medicinal mushrooms. Bro, they are a type of medicine, man. Put mine. You know what? Already. Mushrooms are one of my favorite foods, so I have them often in actual meals yeah yeah well uh well if you talk to somebody who's like really deep into mycology and you start dropping medicinal mushrooms into the conversation a lot of times they'll say there's not really a such thing as medicinal mushrooms almost all mushrooms

have some therapeutic effects or something like that uh so like reishi is good for inflammation and then you've got like shaga which is as well actually i'm going to get them all mixed up on what they're good for but they all have like different properties one of the things i like about the brand organifi because i was buying a bunch of and i still do i still get a lot of just i i high dose certain types of mushrooms but the uh organifi puts in a little bit of mushroom mix in there i think they have a little bit in the red juice and they have some in their gold so they're starting to implement that those uh mushrooms and or a lot of people just call them like a lot of culinary mushrooms uh are medicinal as well so they're implementing those in their products so

i'm a huge fan i when i found that, I became a bigger fan of their product line. Do you know if there's any benefits to regular mushrooms, like beyond just like they're quote-unquote good for you, like cremini and shiitake and whatnot? Shiitake has got some benefits. I don't know the exact benefit of shiitake. I actually have a book on mushrooms sitting at home that I've been meaning to read because I do want to get into exactly what each one of them are doing.

I do know that for the digestive what each one of them are doing. I do know that for the digestive system, your body digests mushrooms a lot easier than a lot of plants and some animals. And because the fungi, you probably know this, Mike, are closer to animals than they are plants. They're not really plants. So because of the way that they metabolize their food is the same way we metabolize food except for they do it on the outside of their body versus the inside of their body whereas we do it on the inside it is a plant or animal whichever when you start digging into that rabbit hole you kind of find out that mushrooms just run everything oh yeah mushrooms run everything and they're not from planet Earth.

No, they're out there. As far as running an ecosystem? Yeah, the entire ecosystem of what we, like the communication pathways between trees, the fungus, even like the moss on the ground when you get out into the jungle, there's just like thousands and thousands of species of mushrooms that are creating this thing that we just walk through.

We're like, oh, cool. I think evolutionarily, they're like what created the bridge from plants to animals. Anyways, we can get into that some other time. We'll interview somebody that knows more about this than we do. Put that one on the list. It's going to be great for sure. Our other sponsor is Thrive Market, which, oh, by the way, for Organifi, if you want to get those products, you get 20% off if you use the code SHRUG.

Get 20% off all those. And then we also have Thrive Market, which is basically just really healthy food you can order online. If you live in a part of the country where your grocery store isn't stocked with lots of organic and sustainably farmed, regenerative farmed foods, this is a really great place to go. For me, I like to shop at Thrive Markets, not just for my own personal health, but for the health of the planet as well, because they do a really good job of making sure that where they're sourcing their food from is sustainable in nature. Yeah, talking with Gennar, product quality seemed to be by far the number one focus of that company. You were saying it's all organic, it's all non-GMO. Going to the farms and actually talking to the people that are making the food

to make sure that it's exactly what they think it's going to be. They're not just calling bulk suppliers and saying, hey, we need a bunch of peanut butter, just send to us yeah right like it's all it's all very high quality the piece on uh not just sustainability but regenerative um things for the soil making sure that everything is not just we can keep this level here they're they're really pushing it forward and how do we give back to the environment that the food is built in. From the soil to the plants to the people that are out there farming it, it was really impressive being in their headquarters and just seeing the entire operation. I mean, you walk in and it was pretty much baller from the second we stepped in to the time we left,

from the products, the food, the cleaning supplies, everything that they, they showed us was just on point. Yeah. If you want to increase the quality of your life and the quality of products that you have in your household, uh, go to thrive market.com slash shrugged. It's like, uh, it's kind of like Costco and it's a membership program. So you'll pay X amount of dollars per year. And then you you that's basically that that's how they make their money and then you're going to get really low prices on super high quality stuff and if you use thrivemarket.com slash shrug you'll actually get your first month of 60 days 60 60 dollars in food 60 dollars in food 30 days free membership and free shipping. So go make sure to check that out.

All right, now we're going to dig into this interview. We're going to talk to Dr. Isertel here. Can you give us a little bit of a background? You know, my first impression of you was that you were like a nutrition guy because you're from RP Strength and Renaissance Periodization. Oh, shit. Spelling bee. Yeah.

But if you want to find you on Instagram, what you guys are up to, it's just rpstrength. rpstrength on Instagram, yep. We met at games, and I started learning about your background. I'm curious. Can you tell us about that real quick? So, you know, I was born in the former Soviet Union

in 1984. Ironic. Wow. And I don't know if irony is the technical word for that. And then I came to America with my parents

and sister and grandma in 1991 to the fabulous Detroit, Michigan. Real upgrade. It actually was a fundamental, complete upgrade, which is funny. Testament to how shitty communism really is. Welcome to Detroit.

We're like, unbelievable. They're like, holy shit. Where are you from? Huge following in Siberia. Oh, yeah? Well, I know a lot of those people personally. So I've wrestled many of them. These are bears, yeah? Well, I know a lot of those people personally. So I've wrestled many of them. These are bears, right?

Yeah, and then so I grew up in the United States. I still speak Russian, which is kind of cool. And I did my undergrad at the University of Michigan in movement science, which is a kinesiology. And that's actually where I met Nick Shaw, who was the co-founder of Renaissance Periodization. And then I did a master's at Appalachian State in strength conditioning, where I got a chance to work with a lot of D1 athletes, stuff like that. I was a personal trainer in New York City for one year, working with super-duper rich business people,

which are really actually pretty cool in real life. One percenters, man, stealing everyone's wealth by producing valuable things that we all enjoy. But anyway, that's neither here nor there. Most people that don't like one percenters don't know one percenters. Oh, yeah. Some of them are dicks,

but some of a lot of people are dicks. That's right. So in any case, then I went to... I think people think a lot of one percenters just have like hordes of cash and they're just like keeping it in their basement and like keeping it out of society instead of most of their net worth coming from like owning companies. Wait, where are you guys?

Where do you keep your money? Mine's in that sandpit right there. Your dog was digging in that, by the way. I have mine in the basement. I was eating a piece of pizza when I buried it. He must smell it. I keep mine underneath my hot tub. That's a good idea.

No one would really ever look there. No. It's there with the organite. What the fuck is that? Don't ask, don't tell. Don't worry about it. If you have to ask, you don't need to know. Finally, I did my PhD under the legendary Dr.

Mike Stone at East Tennessee State University. PhDs in sport physiology was just science of taking good athletes and making them better. And then I got a chance to work as the head nutrition consultant for the U.S. Olympic training site there. We had cycling and we had weightlifting. And then I was a professor at Central Missouri for two years, taught all kinds of courses, nutrition, training, et cetera. And that's where I picked up Brazilianzilian jiu-jitsu habit addiction and um then i went to temple in philly for two years working with dr james hoffman who is a co-author of mine on the he's actually the head author on the recovery book um and now i

work full-time for renaissance periodization because we got so big that i couldn't go back to work work anymore. And Nick Shaw said I can't work for the university because he needs me to do a lot of other stuff. So I've been a professor for a while. And then athletically, I wrestled in high school. I didn't do anything. Actually, on my way here, the Lyft driver was like, so have you always been an athlete? Like in middle school, I'm like thinking back to middle school, like, nope, video nope video games and like man titties that that's what i had wait you had them or you were you were like seeking them

like no no i had i need bigger packs that way we all started training um so no in middle school i was completely sedentary high school i did wrestling which really uh changed my life for a lot of ways and then i fell in love with lifting to get stronger for wrestling. I did powerlifting in college. Then I started training like a bodybuilder when I was in grad school. Fell in love with that. It's lust, really, if we're being specific. And then I've done a couple bodybuilding shows

in which I progressively sucked less and less, but I still suck. And then I started competing in jiu-jitsu after I got started in it four years ago, four and a half. And I'm actually not terrible at jiu-jitsu. It turns out being really strong is kind of cool when your job is to try to hurt people. You got a big strength background and then you wrestled. That's a great transition. Totally, yeah. It was a pretty smooth transition, to be honest.

I actually don't know how people pick up jiu-jitsu if they hadn't wrestled. It must be a really awkward couple of months of like, why are people on me? What's the smell? Why do things smell? Jiu-jitsu smells really bad it does i can i can go if i walk into somebody's house you know the jiu-jitsu i know i'm like oh i just follow it to their dirty yeah you should keep that outside of the house yeah so um yes i kind of i'm i'm super passionate about bodybuilding and super passionate about jiu-jitsu um and I also know shit or whatever.

Super passionate about getting people really strong. That's the idea, strong, lean, more jacked, and really happier. I'm a happy person. Where do you come from more or where do you like to kind of spend your attention? Is that more on the nutrition side of things, more on kind of the, I mean, you Google your name and there's a gigantic article about everything hypertrophy that exists with your name attached to it from, you know, getting strong, maintaining strength. You've gone way too far in this. Where do you kind of focus your attention or is it really across all of the spectrums? It's a little bit of everything, but I'm getting incrementally more like niched into just a couple of things as as primaries um one of the things is like at

renaissance we have so many experts that most of the people that work for us are phds and sport natural science and accomplished athletes in their own right and a lot of them have the really good sub specialties like dr james hoffman is a very close friend of mine and co-author of many of my books he's much better at sport stuff, like actual fields, like actual sports. I don't mean to be rude, but, you know, like bodybuilding. We do this. Not very athletic. So, you know, like movement stuff like volleyball, sprinting, et cetera.

He's really good about that kind of stuff and about training and periodization and planning for that stuff. So while he's been focusing on that and he's kind of a resident expert on that i've been more into hypertrophy so i'm like supposedly one of the hypertrophy experts or whatever in the world i guess i don't know it makes no sense to me but i know a lot about i'm very passionate about trying to get as jacked as possible yeah um and this is my pathetic current best attempt at it although i am carb depleted so i'm usually bigger i'm usually bigger damn it you're a fucking monster look at me on Instagram when I'm pumped people are like this guy's not that big holy shit okay so

so in any case I'm like fascinated with hypertrophy and that's both the training stuff and the nutrition stuff yeah because if you're really if your pursuit of strength as long as you have a decent muscularity and you're not screwing up your nutrition too bad nutrition can only yield you so much for strength. It's a lot, but it's only so much. With hypertrophy, if your nutrition is not as good as it can be, you're limiting yourself

for sure. Like power lifters kind of just like if you eat enough protein and you have plenty of energy, you'll get really strong. Bodybuilders, you don't ever speak to a guy who's like 300 with veins and you're like, so you could just kind of eat whatever. He's like, yeah, just get hungry in there. You know, like know like no of course not yeah so nutrition pays a really big dividend so i've invested myself a lot into the very technical side of nutrition very technical side of hypertrophy i love little nuances but i also often find myself when i'm lecturing and stuff and writing books i have to regress back to talking about the basics which i absolutely love because a lot of the people asking about the minutia shouldn't be, because they don't know the basics.

So that's my jam. And one of the pieces that is not talked about too often, and you guys are starting to get into this, is more of the recovery stuff. When I was checking out some of the hypertrophy articles, I was really impressed with the, here's the rep ranges where you are doing yourself no good. We're getting past training volumes that your body's actually able to recover to um where do you see a lot of people falling into those holes man so funny enough uh so when we wrote the recovery book we actually developed a recovery hierarchy kind of like a pyramid of at the bottom am i allowed to swear on this by the way yeah yeah i'm sure the fuck you want? Sweet.

I don't ever swear. I'm kind of more, like, conservative that way, so. Oh. I don't cuss. As soon as someone says they don't, like, oh, I don't cuss, I'm like, who the hell says cuss? What the fuck is wrong with you? It's fucking swearing.

Are you over 18? You know, you can have those weird thoughts you have in your head. No one knows about it. Overly repressed and shit. Or you just tell people about them and get in a lot of trouble. So in any case, we developed a recovery pyramid, right? And at the base of the pyramid is the most important thing you can do for recovery. And as you go up each level, it's incrementally less important until you get to the top,

which is just like a tiny little some details, right? The bottom in our estimate of the recovery pyramid for sport training is what we say training within your MRV. An MRV is shorthand for maximum recoverable volume. It's the most volume you can chronically train at without doing more than your body can recover from given normal conditions. The huge take-home message of the bottom of the pyramid being trained with an MRV is it doesn't matter how much sleep you get, how much food you get, how many supplements you take, how well-structured your life is, you can always select a total training volume per week that will crush you anyway, right? So the first ingredient of making sure you're recovering well is just not being overly enthusiastic

about your program to the point of where you just pick a bunch of shit put it in and there's nothing you can do to dig yourself out of the hole so first of all selecting a logical amount of training then after that we get into some more details so and i don't know if a lot of people do that but some sure as hell do and it's usually the people that are very enthusiastic about their fitness which is great but a lot of times it's the um the a la carte edition of fitness methods because you know you it's all about instagram let's just put that out there i mean clearly life is about instagram bullshit journeys and shit like that journey to instagram where shit's really happening that's where all of life is so what do you get with instagram well if can, if you can brag about the most kind of shit you do, if you can be involved in 50 different sports,

people are like, Oh my God, you're a multi-sport athlete. You're so amazing. I want to be you. You know, shit like that. Life is about creating jealousy in other people.

It just drives them insane. So, so people will be like, I'm powerlifting. And someone at their gym is like, Hey, have you ever tried like some gymnastics moves? And like, Oh my God, that, so people will be like, I'm powerlifting. And someone at their gym is like, Hey, have you ever tried like some gymnastics moves? And like,

Oh my God, that's so great. I'm going to add that. And like, do you want to try weightlifting? Yep. Add that, uh,

CrossFit. Yep. That too. And Hey, there's a bodybuilding show coming up and you're looking decent time to diet and add bodybuilding moves. Now we've got five things where maybe we were at 60% of our MRV with just powerlifting alone. And now all of a sudden we're at 120 and they're like, Oh'm having trouble recovering what can i do the answer is nothing the answer is get rid of like three of your hobbies or do a

whole lot less of them put them in the normal context of training sometimes you get a coach that's that's overzealous as well like if they're a young coach they're going to want to just smash their people uh i was talking with the head strength of the colorado rockies when i was doing some work with them back in 2006 and that was what he was saying right when we got there was that most strength coaches that he knows that work with professional athletes and have been doing so for decades inevitably come to

the conclusion that when they were younger they did too much. Like doing too much was the thing that got their athletes hurt. It was the things that made them not recover especially in baseball. They have to play a game every single day. They perform and play every single day. in baseball they they have to play a game every single day they perform and play every single day they practice every day they play a game every day that there's not as much time to recover when you play seven games a week and then like a double header on saturday baseball is completely insane first of all because of the

volume of competition that they do but um that's funny enough exactly how we developed coined the term maximum recovery volume. We had to so Dr. James Hoffman and I continue to run in a lot of the strength coaches East Tennessee. We all worked with teams. We were consistently running into the same problem with multiple coaches. And the problem was we had to convey to them that simply adding things is not the way you become amazing at sport. That if you're going to add too much you exceed your body's ability to recover. And then it's not like extra credit because a lot of people come at this from a purely psychological perspective you know all that i'm sorry trite fucking 1983 wrestling movie bullshit motivational

crap like you gotta fucking train more than your competitor i'm like uh question what if he's over training you fucking you fucking do more than him bro like what right so this idea that you can never do like you fucking work hard like where does it say where have you been to a gym and the fucking sign says manager training stressors like logically like that says that says fucking outwork or whatever so especially young coaches show up and they're like let's just fucking do everything and then it was our job as sport scientists we help structure their training and especially structure the balance between lifting, conditioning, and sport practice to be like, something's got to do one of these. Are you giving me a hint to change my microphone?

No, I'm just coughing. Okay. No, you're good. I hope you're okay. I'm great. Sweet. I was watching a video of Josh Koscheck, UFC fighter, like very, very very good wrestler uh throughout uh you know his collegiate career amazing and uh the strength coach on the video basically went up doing was like hey man more is not better and he looked him right in the face and was like hey i've

been doing this a long time trust me more is better i'm like that was the clip that that the the company that was making that show chose to put out to the world even if that's not even if you lost the context there they only showed that one clip because that sounds badass and so that's what gets delivered because it sounds very sexy to say like you know fuck that i'm i'm super powerful i'm an amazing athlete more is better i can handle because i'm super alpha sure that's entertainment at that point it's not right logic and uh so coming from that mentality going back to instagram Instagram. Yeah. So James and I and all our fellow coaches were working with all these coaches, and we had to explain, because they didn't speak technical sports science lingo,

so we had to explain to them a concept of there's a certain sort of tangible, slightly variable amount from which your athletes can recover, and anything more isn't a matter of psychology or whatever is just not going to make them better, and it's going to make them worse. So we had to get given this idea that there's this box and you got to fill in the box and if there's too much of one thing you got to take it out or put it on the back burner to put other shit in kind of like a trade-out system versus just an addition system so we came up with the term maximum recoverable volume because it was a one fucking shot term we're gonna be like well you're gonna go over their mrv and they're like what's that like and

then we just quickly explain like your athletes can only recover from so much the thing is a lot of coaches are working for they weren't first timers they were good coaches and as soon as you explain to them it's just very simple logic like hey there's only so much you can do and then everything else is bad after that they're like huh fuck you're right so how do we structure it they're like ha sport science so then we'd help them out. But before that, there was no term to describe that idea. Yeah, I've never heard it said so simply, for one. That's how simple it really is, though. And I mean, I remember coaching CrossFit athletes.

They would come from one coach, come to me, and then I would program for them. And by the way, there was a point in time where I was doing too much too. All of us. I think it's a rite of passage actually. But I remember getting athletes and they go, well, my old coach had me doing this. And I look at the program. I go, what the fuck? Like this is just way too much.

And then I dial it back and they're begging for more and then doing more when I'm not looking or not telling me about it. And then they're like, I'm not looking or not telling me about it. And then they're like, I, I'm not, you know, and then they, they're having like really, they're having recovery issues, but they don't know. They think it's because of something they're eating or not eating or whatever. Magic. Yeah. So that's, how do you deal with an athlete who comes from a coach where they're, they're coming from this super high volume and come to it to you? Maybe I don't know if you're coaching these types of athletes that come in. what's the conversation you're having to help them i physically intimidate them if i catch you training i will break your fucking legs in the squat rack i don't give a

shit it's not a holy place for me you know um on a serious note what i usually do is if they uh you know you just been nice to them for a while and don't do that here's why you know why and then sometimes you have to kind of have a sit down with athletes like that. And you say, okay, here's the deal. Do you think that I'm not invested in your excellence as an athlete? And they're like, no, of course. That's why you're my coach. Do you think I want you to be the best?

Yeah. So why do you think I don't program as much training as you want to do? Because I'm trying to hamstring you as a joke to both of us? Because if you do well, it looks good for both of us. Also, I'm not a fucking cocksucker. I don't hamstring you on purpose for no reason. And they're like, no, no, I get that. And I'm like, okay, what kind of athlete would you like to meet at your highest level of competition if you're competing with someone?

Someone tells you about this athlete. You're about to go up against, let's say you're a wrestler. You're like, oh, man, the guy you're wrestling is kind of fucking a little bit fanatical. He's addicted to training. And, like, he'll train more than he has to just because he like he feels like a piece of shit inside. And if he doesn't train, he just doesn't feel right. You're like, OK, I feel like I can frustrate or exploit a guy like that. Like he's got fucking head issues.

Or do you want to go up against a guy who thinks he's a machine and has optimized every part of his process? He's just exactly enough to be the best. He lives everything in his life is lined up to fucking headlock you and kill you. He doesn't have emotions. He eats exactly like he's supposed to, sleeps exactly, trains exactly everything the coach says.

You're like, I have to wrestle that man? Is he a machine? That's not a person. Hold on. I want to live. I want to pull out of the competition. I don't want to do this shit anymore.

Who do you want to be? Which athlete do you want to be? Which athlete do you want to go up against? Because sport science, the application of sport to training is really just turning a hobby into a system, into a systematic machine-like entity. Anything that has been mechanized, systematized is fucking unbelievable. Uh, kind of like a little bit of an obtuse analogy, but modern warfare, right? When you go up against the NATO armies, the United States, England, et cetera, you're not going up against a bunch of guys with guns

shooting like this. You're going up against a very intelligent system that positions people exactly how it's supposed to, that gets intelligence how it's supposed to. It's like that. So, you know, when you go in there and you see one guy, you're like, clearly I'm already in line of sight for some other guy. Yep, absolutely yep absolutely boom sniper blows your head off and you're dead versus you go up and you're just like hey we're gonna start an army like what do we do we fucking shoot as many guns as possible and kill as much enemy as we can we're gonna try really hard we're like yeah sweet see you guys next week we'll see you for the war so it's one of those things like everything that has been systematized and is logically applied and the logic is sound is just going to make you better.

That's just how it works. You know, you don't go to a hospital and you're bleeding out of a fucking wound and they're like, all right, like we're going to really try to save you. They're like speaking in medical technical terms and sewing your ass up. They have systems for everything. So why not make your coaching a system? That's scary. That's how the East Germans are. Well, steroids aside, everyone is using them. That's how the East Germans and the Soviets and stuff won so much shit back in the day.

Because to some extent, the Western countries, sport was still a traditional endeavor. It was a lot of hunches. It was a lot of, well, my coach says this. And China today is a counter example of that as well. They had a systematic approach to sport. In Russia, the idea that you would do more than what your coach tells you is insane. Other people would see you and be like, do you have a workout right now? I'd be like, no, I'm just doing extra squats.

They'd be like, what the fuck are extra squats? What's wrong with you? You have a program. So if you just convey that kind of message to people like i am an engineer you are a machine let's optimize you they're like like fuck i want to be a machine sweet that means no training today come back for two hours tomorrow as opposed to just and then you couldn't i actually like for some athletes you have to mock them to some extent you have to be like no no training is for you to feel good about yourself do you feel frustrated today like you're not a champion just go and

fucking just grind squats so you can feel great and they're like yeah but like it's not gonna make you any better you know that already but you're gonna feel good they're like why i don't want to be better well then fucking go and grind squats like you have to choose at some point is sport something you're doing to optimize performance or is it therapy now here's the thing if it's therapy fucking god bless you that's awesome a lot of people train. Everyone is training at regular gyms. A lot of them train for therapy. It's fucking grind shit. It's awesome. It's great. But if you are competing in sport, there's a trade off there. And if it's for your therapy that you're doing it, hey, you may be fucking real therapeutic. And then you come out and wrestle a guy and he snaps your fucking head off. You're like, but I good about life he's like sweet here's your second place medal fuck off perfect i think there's a great place to to take a break and we come back who the fuck knows what we'll get into thanks for watching the show if you'd like to learn more about how to improve your snaps clean and jerk we have a free 55 page ebook you can get at flightweightlifting.com has

sample programming specifically for weightlifting weightlifting how-to technique videos and other tips on how to improve all of your lifts go to flightweightlifting.com and you can download that ebook for free download it now and we're back with dr mike isratel we started chatting and you're one of those guests that uh we can't shut up. Won't shut the fuck up. Yeah. It's like we take off the headphones and the podcast didn't stop. It's like, oh, what grinds your gears?

But we got chatting about how most athletes are not in touch with their bodies but may think that they are. Can you comment on that? Yeah. So this is especially a problem or a challenge. Can you comment on that? Yeah. So this is especially, I was going to say problem more challenge. It's a challenge in distance coaching where you have a coach that writes your programming from hundreds of miles away or whatever, which is very common now with the Internet and everything. With the Internet, man, this newfangled thing we've got.

It's here. It's staying. Is it really? I heard it. It's a fad. You know, funny enough, I have to say this, sort of very infamous economist, Paul Krugman,

is deified by a lot of people and hated by a lot of other people, and he had a quote, a really nasty quote, I just wouldn't want to have made this quote, he had a quote back in, I think the early 2000s, late 90s,

that he basically said, you know, the internet, in my estimation, is going to go nowhere past like an interesting alternative to like a phone call or something. It was just like grotesquely. It was like the most wrong you could ever be. It sucks to have – you know, otherwise, the guy says like a lot of good shit. He says a lot of dumb shit too, but he's got plenty of smart guys.

I think he's less than 50% though. Paul Krugman, I think, is more wrong than – I agree wholeheartedly. We could get a technical economic discussion if no one here wants that. I got another show where we'll do that. There you go. Somebody I can talk to. Oh, yeah, for sure.

Perfect. But it just sucks to be dead wrong. But in any case, so the internet's here to stay. The internet's here to stay, and we got a lot of distance coaching, which is excellent, right? Because now people... the internet's here to stay and we got a lot of distance coaching which is excellent right because now people because yeah somebody contacted me earlier and they were like hey someone's looking for a local bodybuilding coach do you know any i'm like people still fucking know local people like i don't know if i can i have no idea what the fuck is a local bodybuilding coach like what

is it that your coach needs to do with you that he needs to well in person i guess if you like extra intimate bodybuilding coaching it It depends how experienced you are. Like if you're a brand new beginner, then you might want someone in person to show you the exercises. But if you're advanced, you just need someone to give you some guidance and a plan. I guess posing coaching is also to be done in person. But in any case, distance coaching is amazing. But one of the challenges about it is fatigue management with your athletes. Because like I say, if you train people in person, they show up to the gym. you can fucking tell if they're beat down, right? And it's deload time.

Like why? Like, cause you're on set number two, warmup for leg press and you're going to failure now on five reps. Like you're supposed to be able to do 20 of this. You're done, right? We're deloading, we're eating more, et cetera. But with distance coaching, a lot of times, some of the actually very good subjective measures of fatigue, because it's been shown that if you ask athletes how they feel, if they're honest, it's actually very reflective of their physiology, right? So, like, if you're in touch with your body, it is actually possible to be in touch with your body productively and give off physiological states. But the ego gets tied up in there, right?

And you have to filter through that, and that's a big challenge with coaching. So, for example, you say, hey, Betty. That's a fine athlete's name. Anyone namedty is just a rock star athlete beatrice i think betty and i think grandma ethel automatically yeah be like oh man doesn't matter what you clean and jerk because ethel's on the next flight after she's gonna rack 200 no problem so um so ethel uh you know you're like ethel how is your training feeling how are you feeling do you feel fatigued and she knows what that shit means but she has an agenda she wants to be super tough and she wants to impress her coach and she's going to be like i feel fine i

feel fine you guys ever get that like you actually talk to them in person or like over skype and they do this thing with you like i'm okay like what's up with your head? Are you in court? Where were you on the night of the 15th? Like, nowhere. I was nowhere at all. Okay. So, you know, you can't quite tell that through email, but sometimes they're like, oh, no, everything's great. I feel fine.

And it takes a while for the coaching client relationship to catch up to the fact that there maybe have been some illusions there and that the client is actually much more fatigued and i wish it was just that problem because then there's the opposite problem it's not as common for people who've gone and paid for coaching um of people uh who think everything is a nightmare scenario and you're like how do you feel they're like i'm really sore we're like we did uh six by 10 squats yesterday. They're like, I'm going to die. And you're like, okay. Is there blood in your urine? No, but I feel like there could be if we keep this up. Clearly, you're not ready for high-level training, right?

So it's tough to get through the ego and expectations and the image athletes want to project to a coach that it's really, it comes down to, I think, some personal psychology in the coach, where if you have a good client, you're invested, and you want really long-term development with a coaching client relationship, you have to, at some point, get to the same level playing field where you're like, look, no bullshit. I'm on your side. I am a service provider to make you better.

You can lie to me if you want, just as productive as lying to your therapist. Can you imagine like paying for therapy? You sit down on the fucking couch. He's like, so how's life? You're like, I'm fucking golden, bro. Why are you here? Why did you try to lie to me? Cause I hold you in high esteem. I didn't want to like talk about my problems with you. Like I fucking, you pay me to do this. Ain't crazy. So a lot of times, you know, you realize that if you're a client, you're listening to this,

you pay a coach to accurately sense your fatigue state so that they can intelligently adjust your program. Fuck, would you lie to them for? Do you lie to your macros calculator too? Like eight, five burritos. You're like, I'm going to put that as five grams of carbs. It's like 25 calories and we're good. Like, it's a machine.

Who cares? So people do. Oh, fuck. Never mind. People lie to their coaches about diet adherence all the time. I've coached. Most of the people I've coached have been amazing. But myself and other people I know in the industry have coached people who are also amazing, just a different part of their life journey, I suppose.

And you'll be like, how's your diet? Because they're not losing weight than they're supposed to be, and you're cutting their calories pretty hardcore. So you're like, physiologically, you should be losing, I don't know, fucking two pounds a week. And they're like, it's good, it's great. And you're like, yeah, so you're pretty strict? Like, totally strict.

And then their Instagram, like, I am in Vegas, party let out, and they're like, squirting cream cheese into their mouth. And you're like, I didn't even know. How did you get a tube of cream cheese? Where is that? Like, novelty store for that shit? And you're like, the next day, like, you see that post. You like that post on Instagram.

And the next day, you're like, diet's okay? They're like, totally. You're like, why are we doing this? Why is this a ballet? I don't know my part in this shit. So a lot of it just really comes down to, like to people need to understand kind of their training age as well when you talk about these stressors. And how do you assess that with them and make sure they're like having the perfect macro plan doesn't really matter for so many people. So what are some of the assessments that you're giving for finding their real training age and making sure Ethel's on the right page?

Well, intake's a good part of that. Before you start working with clients, you've got to ask them a lot of shit about what they're doing. One of the interesting things is you have to get pretty specific about how long have you been training because the word training is not really well defined. It's like, well, I've messed around with weights for 15 years. Okay, how long have you trained full body to the extent that you were sweating after workouts? Oh, like six months. So you're training ages eight months or whatever, cumulatively, right?

So a lot of times you have to really dig into what they consider training. Sometimes you'll get nonsensical feedback. One of my friends, Dr. James Hoffman, laughs about this all the time. So you'll give people a list of lifts, right, because you're their strength and conditioning programmer, and they'll have to fill in how strong they are for 10 RMs or 1 RMs, right? It's just compound, overhead press, squat, upright row. So if you're 9 again, you'd be like, it's in pounds, right?

So it's like upright row, 65 for 10. Makes sense. Shoulder press, like 75 for 10. Squat, 75 for 10. Makes sense. Shoulder press, like 75 for 10. Squat, 75 for 10. And you're like, are you able to walk? Is that an error?

And they're like, oh, I guess it just slipped my mind. It's supposed to be 175. And you're like, oops. Stuff just doesn't add up. So a lot of times when people give you feedback of where they are, some incongruities have to be examined. And then as you examine them, you get the feel of who they really are. And a lot of times with most athletes, after that, what you have to choose is how general or specific approach you're taking.

The cool thing, the downside with working with real, maybe beginner athletes or kind of psychologically beginner athletes that aren't used to systematizing in training, is that just general good advice gives them fucking head over heels incredible improvements. Okay, here's what I want you to do. I just want you to make sure most of your meals have protein in them and eat until you're full. They're like, okay, that's it? Like, that's it. Do you know what protein is? They're like, I think so.

They're like, okay, sweet. I'll find out in a couple weeks. So they do that and they're like, oh god my numbers are going crazy i'm getting so strong this is amazing you're like excellent later months later years later you start to manipulate their nutrient timing very particularly you start to do you know intentional massing and cutting phases all this other stuff and then they benefit but if you have an athlete come to you and they're like pretty well advanced and you're like just eat plenty of protein and like fucking carbs they're like i'm paying you a lot of money for this and you're like oh you want the advance here it is right but a lot of times there's a mismatch between that where you get

beginner clients you're like i want you to follow this exact macro plan to the letter and they're like what the fuck is a macro and you're like okay clearly we're ahead of ourselves yeah one thing is really i struggle with it so much i was literally in costco this weekend and you go over to the book section and it's like there's a book section in Costco? I actually love going to the book section at Costco because you know that millions of people are reading whatever the fuck is there. There's no filter for it. It's like

Whole30, I'll read that. There's 700 of them. But right next to that is... It's a much average book. RP's gotta get into fucking Costco. I know a guy. It literally is. So right next to the Whole30 book, which is probably a really Well, this is the thing. I know a guy. It literally is. So right next to the Whole30 book, which is probably a really good book, is the How Not to Die, Only Eat Kale book.

Right next to the Blue Apron book. And it's like if I knew nothing about. And most people don't. And so you go in. It's like, I'll just take that one. That should work. As a coach, understanding nutrition, because nutrition is kind of like everyone looks to that right away. And there's a lot of books on it there's no books on training age it's like have you done windler well that's a pretty good place to start for everyone have

you done a 20 rep back squat program everyone's probably you know if you've been training five years you've probably at least heard of it so how do you kind of assess or just where where do we start people to get them into just here's here's like a your basic program for squatting without all the bullshit that goes along with it for sure funny enough we're actually um developing a product currently at rp i love that i think i can boom This man has paid on the side to set me up with bullshit promos. He's a plant. We've had him on a couple of shows now. Costco is calling right now.

Just so he can say that on this show. He won't be on the next show. That's right. So I think I can say this because it's going to come out in a couple months anyway. We're actually developing what's called a beginner bundle and it's a very simple book about how to basically train basically diet basically recover and basically approach the psychology of the matter and then some templates and videos to show you how to do all the beginner shit and a couple of programs that are like in your way it's more or less like like five by five

type of stuff to start with yeah and but before that five i have strength focus it's all really technique focus i think um and there's it's kind of a battlefield there with especially accepting new clients especially not in person because in person you kind of figure out quickly like squat and they're like okay it's not a squat it goes here or like when you tell someone to squat you guys ever had this and they pick the barbell up and oh yeah i love that one are you gonna do that with 400 pounds it's usually followed by like some like stop like whatever your your thing is like you've done it all wrong already climb under the bar yeah so so in person it kind of gets sorted out but um you know if you're a real committed coach and you're working with individuals that uh you think may not know what they're doing with technique basics, video assessment is really good.

Yeah. Be like, just show me what a squat looks like. You don't tell them shit. What's your squat? And it clearly, if a guy sets up and dunks it, you're like, all right, awesome. Yeah. Advanced programming for you. Yeah.

Or just non-technique based programming and then if they're look like shit a lot of times if you're a distance coach i like putting people in touch with local actual coaches like if individuals i've had clients before they're like yeah my squat sucks and i know it i'm like are you a member of a crossfit box they're like yes but i don't go to open workouts much like start going and or pay someone there the head of the box to go to coach you in squatting and in pulling. And I can actually send them a sheet of movements. I want him to learn you up in about three weeks and come back. And they do that.

And then they're competent with the lifts. But I think I've had situations before, unfortunately, where I assumed people knew what they were doing. Yeah. And then too late, like a mesocycle in. I watch videos of them deadlifting and they're like, oh, you're still alive. Testament to your back. I've definitely seen that. Yeah.

It's scary. It's totally scary. Oh, fuck. I could have killed that person. I fucked up. Yeah. We've been doing five by ten deadlift. Like, what the fuck did that look like?

You like stop watching the video with two reps and you're like, I can't even. Assuming they sent the email, they're live still. I don't even want to see the last eight reps. So it's definitely a matter of assessing where they are. And then a really good tip, I think, for people working with new people is if you have an amount of volume that you use for programs, sets, total sets and reps and weight, there's never a problem, almost never a problem problem starting on the very low end of that for everyone that you're not sure about and even some people you're sure about because you could always work up yeah but starting on the high end can shit them out the other way before we have a chance to work back as tough as a coach totally because a lot because a lot of people will quit

after a week and be like the shit was too easy like you dumb motherfucker it was a progression I just met you yeah I wanted to not kill you next week will be harder I've had this I used to when I was a personal trainer sometimes like depending on the kind of client you get I'm gonna hire you as a coach don't do that it's the biggest mistake actually on that note do you think there's some value in giving them

really simple movements that are hard to fuck up with some decent amount of volume on the very first day just to make them very sore and then have a really easy next three or four weeks? That way they go,

okay, this is legit and then you build them back up. I was going to say exactly that. When I was a personal trainer, sometimes I would, especially when clients are like, you know, I've been with other personal trainers and they just can't they basically

say in some way or another they can't beat my ass like i want and i'm like good fucking god this will be the easiest thing i do they'll say things like i never feel it in my legs and i want to feel it on my legs i'm like you had a personal trainer and you couldn't feel your workout in your legs like no when's the last time you were sore in your legs? Like, I can't remember. I'm like, oh, motherfucker, we're about to jog your memory now. You see that little squat rack there? You see that little leg press right after that? And see that little open space where you get to lunge right to the elevator, take it down, vomit blood, pass out,

and I don't have to see you for the next couple of days? That'll be you. So I think every now and again there is value in really proving your worth and just fucking them in the ass. Not literally. I can always tell when someone's a new personal trainer because that's how they speak about everyone. They're like, dude, I fucking, dude, I totally fucked that guy up.

I gave him this, I gave him that. He was so sore. Totally. I'm like, do you think that's good? Is that what you do to everyone every workout all the time? Exactly. I'll follow clients out like after the gym and fuck them up even more like just in the spring. You know what I'm saying? You thought the workout was over motherfucker give me your purse

i'm not gonna spend any of this money when you're strong enough you're gonna come fuck take it so but yeah so there is like that temptation as a personal trainer to prove yourself and unfortunately sometimes it has to be done um if it doesn't have to be done i would say starting out on the easy side is a really great idea. And then a lot of it you can talk about. These people are human beings. A lot of people who pay for personal training are more intelligent than average. They're more intellectual than average. They make more money than average. They're not completely ridiculous people. So you're like, okay, so here's what we're going to do. This week,

we're starting out. We're going to feel you out. I promise you, you will get results because you're new motherfucker. Your muscles will respond to anything you're gonna burn fat build muscle we don't have to train that hard we're gonna make things harder so if you think this week is too easy perfect and then when they think it's too easy they're like perfect but a lot of personal trainers and other coaches just don't communicate with their clients so you'll have a situation where they're like i don't feel it and they're like you're not supposed to feel it let's go to the next exercise you're like that could have been feel it. And they're like, you're not supposed to feel it. Let's go to the next exercise. And you're like,

that could have been like a 30-second explanation of why we're doing this. There's a lot of dead space with personal training a lot of times. That's been my experience. You do a set,

you've got to wait 60 seconds and then a lot of personal trainers, what I've witnessed, is stand there and they just bullshit about fucking life, bro. Like the football game this past weekend or something like that. When they,

when they could be educating the person. Totally. Totally. And sometimes the person isn't paying to be educated, but there's always, but some people are and you have to make sure to align that conversation with them. Um,

yeah, the personal training is interesting because you're, you're in some sense being paid to hang out with a person for an hour. Yeah, that's true. My only rule about that, like I've taught a bunch of classes on how to be a personal trainer at the university level. My only rule about that is if you're executing the workout properly, what you talk about

between sets doesn't have to be a lot. It's whatever the client wants to talk about and whatever is not professionally like super fucked up. I think everything's fine. But that's a big if because my next rant about that is personal trainers who prioritize the conversation over the workout which is fucking crazy like i actually literally seen individuals train people and do like five total sets in the course of a one hour session yeah the most awkward situations

is when the personal trainer clearly wants to talk to the guy, but the guy's like, what do we do next? And he's like, yeah. So right over here, they warm up, and then the guy talks for 10 minutes, and the guy like being trained is like, okay, I'm ready for another set. You clearly want to fucking train. Maybe they're like a super rich dude, and the guy's like, so who I was thinking was, I got some investment plans, man.

I really want to talk to you. It's super unprofessional. It's ridiculous. But as a personal trainer, you have to be able to resist the other side where the client, and I guarantee you, as soon as I say this, all of you guys are going to be like, how'd that happen? The client is in fucking pain

from training. Good pain. Breathless. And they're they think they're slick and they want to delay the next set by fucking asking you about shit like so we got next set soon huh you're like yep 15 seconds we're gonna go again so like um what you what are your favorite like your favorite lifts like fuck my favorite lift is seeing you die on that leg press and 15 seconds is up go they're like fuck i can't distract this but sometimes when especially when the client's an esteemed individual, they can use the bullshit

tactic to string you along, and then you get less work done. The thing is, that's why it's so important to come back to why the fuck are we here in the first place. Look, motherfucker, if you want to hang out with me, I got another service where I just hang out with people. Yeah, they pay me, and I hang out with them. Isn't that sweet? Yeah.

I got it all figured out. Yeah. I got one of those. There you go. Charged by the day. Exactly exactly i charged by the second um but like the the thing is is what's the number one priority is to train them and do it well after that whatever as long as we get that done who cares because months later they're gonna thank you i've actually had clients thank me like thanks for pushing me i know half the time i didn't want to work but you made me

work i'm like what the fuck do you think my job is here is to fucking make you do what is good for you in the long term because it's a long-term investment. If you've just bullshitted with your client for three months, three months later, what you got? Some good conversations? Is that why they're there? I don't think so. They won't be there for that long. No, they're going to leave you. I'm like, fuck this.

I still don't have abs. They're going to blame you for all of it. As long as you give them abs, man. You're set. That was actually something I used to teach at the university. I considered it borderline politically incorrect to say in a university setting, although nowadays with the university just, I don't know, existing as politically incorrect or some shit.

That's why your boy's out. And we're done. So people will say intake forms for personal training. Like, why do you want to personal train? Like, I want to get stronger so I can lift, like, fucking my grocery bags. Or I want to be healthier. 90% plus of the time, people are lying. They want to look better naked, slash, and close.

And if you look good naked, you can't really look bad in clothes, I guess, unless your designer's terrible or whatever. But I only ever source the finest fabrics, gentlemen. You know how I do. You know what I'm saying? These t-shirts are nice. I got Walmart shoes on.

Walmart. Are those real Crocs? Check you out. Are those, what are those shorts? So these are, Crocsandsocks.com? These are,

first of all, Crocs and Socks. People always make fun of me on the internet. They're like, oh, Crocs, what the fuck, Dr. Mike? I'm like, I train at Balance MMA. You come fucking talk shit about my Crocs. Or I fucking train. Fuck you.

No, but seriously, they look completely ridiculous, but they're so comfortable. It's so easy. For a long time, I didn't have Crocs. I had the no back loop Croc knockoffs from Walmart, motherfucker. That's how I roll. This is fancy shit. If you spend all your time researching and coaching,

you don't have time to worry about what your shoes look like. Or have any idea what modern fashion looks like. People are like, that doesn't look good. I'm like, nobody looks at you and thinks like, oh, that guy hasn't been in a gym for a long time. I usually like when I get into like a lift ride, people are like, do you work out? Like at least half the time i'm like no i just i just i was bored like this i don't know fuck man fuck really quick um i was at uh i was flying recently

and the tsa guy like the head guy to check your id made like um it was like a borderline awkward joke he goes all right everything looks good but i can't let you through because uh you don't have a license for those guns and usually i'll ride with any joke i was like oh my god i have so many other great setups for that shit but i was like mike shut the fuck up don't say the word gun in a tsa line because i'm gonna have to explain to their boss that the agent said it first and by then I'm like naked and have been whatever happens in the back of the TSA. But it was like guns.

I'm like, ah. Can I go? He's like, yeah, sure. I'm like, thank God. Just get me out of here. They still strip search me. Which is free. But you enjoyed it. I just applied for global entry. Nice. After like, After flying hundreds of times. Oh, man.

So you applied, but you don't have it yet? No, I'm going to get it. I've heard only amazing things. I have to go do an interview in a couple months. Totally. You're going to fuck that up. Now that you've said that, yeah. You better study it right now.

Don't say this. Don't say that. You show up way too nervous. Like, why do you have the beard? You're like, I don't know. Why not? Get out of here, sir. Yeah, global entry.

I've only ever heard good things. Funny enough, at this size or whatever weird body shape, the fucking scan machine, at least 50% of the time, they're like, you have something in your back. I'm like, hit it. And they're super professional, too. Hit it. like you have something in your back i'm like hit it and they always they're super professional too tsa does an impressive job because they're like is sir is it okay if i touch you on your back i'm going to be using my hand like this way and i'm like i don't have any morality you're the one with the morals i'm like hit it and i'm like i've been like because you know they offer like if it's like the one time like i came up positive for bomb materials or whatever, and I'm like, right on.

It's fucking baby powder. And they're like, so we need to do a full body search. Would you like a private room? And I'm like, nope, I'm good. There's a ton of people there, and I'm standing there like this. And the guy's like, I mean, it's much more awkward for the guy than for me to be completely honest. Oh, yeah.

Because he's like, I'm going to be touching your genitals with the back of my hand. I'm like, bro, you can touch it with whatever the fuck you want, not my first rodeo. He's like, ah! I'm just kidding. You wear the thinnest sweatpants. Oh yeah. And then you just let your imagination do the work.

Oh yeah, yeah. And then, yeah. And you just look at him afterwards. You just stare him in the eye. Yeah, lovingly, like you just had a moment. He's done, he's like, am I good to go? He's like, yeah. I'm like. Just extend the eye contact a little longer.

You're a beautiful soul. I'll remember this moment forever. I think that gets you killed. He's actually like. He accosted me. I'd say normally it's pretty professional, but maybe six months ago, for the first time, I felt like, oh, this is what people are talking about.

When like they say they got groped by someone who's like trying to be a professional, like being pat down by a police officer. Where normally they just like, I always wear pants where there's a zipper on the thigh right here. And so every time it gets flagged and every time I walk out and I put it up and they kind of just like pat that pocket and then I'm out there. It happens all the time. And then this other time, guy kind of like rubbed both of my legs around my knees and then my upper thighs and then like all of my upper thighs and then kind of like gave me like a little ball lift and then and then I was like okay you're good to go and I was like I was like I just got I just got broke he did that he knows there's something I can do about it and and I'm not

actually that offended but now I get it I I get, like, what people are talking about when, like, oh, that guy grabbed my ass. Like, I could tell that it wasn't him just doing his job. I wonder, though. That dude gave me a little ball lift. Why? That made his day. People hide shit all over, though, you know? Totally.

Dude, if I'm going to hide something, it's under my ball sack. But I could tell that, like, he wasn't actually going to find anything. He just wanted to touch my balls and then move on. Love. that he wasn't actually going to find anything. He just wanted to touch my balls and then move on. Why do we have this thing socially that if you touch someone's balls with the back of your hand, it's okay? But if it's the front of your hand, all of a sudden you're like,

whoa, dude, settle down. I'm not signing up for this. I just wanted to go through security. Back of the hand? Eh, have at it. And the other way is totally bullshit. You go to Hong Kong and get a fucking jerk massage and the girl's like touching your balls with the other side of her hand and you're like i'm sorry i paid for the front side where's your manager i can get

this at the tsa for free bitch i just fly with some weird chinese tea back and all of a sudden i got all i got a bunch of people fuck you what is this is this? This is love. I didn't pay for this. I paid for this. You got to have that negotiation up front. That's where my Jewish nature comes in. What is this? Are you serious? What's going on? I paid for front of the hand.

Let me see a manager. All of a sudden, they give me money. I make money at the fucking hand jack off place in Hong Kong. I own stock of the company by then. I can't wait for your business partners to watch this show. It makes you used to this shit. This is what it's like being a doctor and a scientist. Well, actually all those jokes are self-deprecating,

so fuck that guy. You do play it pretty loose in the conversation. Do you feel like you were oppressed a little bit in academia and now that you're out, you can just do whatever the fuck you want oppressed they were holding you down so i mean no it's terrible um you know i'm uh i don't know if i'm comfortable using the term oppressed it's a fine way to describe it i wouldn't't, having been from the actual Soviet Union. Context. Walking around, when we take nightly walks, my dad had a cut-off ski pole

because we were Jewish, and he was going to stab someone to death if they tried to kill us in the street, because they were killing Jews in the street. Moscow, 1990. It's like a Cancun-type shirt. So in any case, yeah, communism blew so much ass that I don't know if I'd call it oppressed, but and also, you know, clearly at the university i'm contract i'm under contract so i just fucking

leave anytime i want but um the modern university system especially when we got into the i taught at temple which is a very very nice school but there is definitely this um i don't call it like a stench of uber political correctness that you start questioning anything you say as potentially offensive and offending someone at the university level is the worst crime than anything apparently it's the worst possible thing you do is offend somebody and it seems phenomenally easy to do oh no yeah oh yeah totally and me i'm jesus you well you guys have been talking to me for long enough to realize i have all sorts of fun things to say that most people consider radically offensive um so i really did.

Yeah, I taught the university and I had to do a lot of, you know, like when someone says some shit and you're like, I can't say that. I had to do a lot of that shit. One time I got on a feedback form. I mentioned anorexia and I made, I didn't make a joke about it. I was like, unless you're anorexic, in which case, and then I went on like a 20 minute long rant about how serious body dysmorphic disorders were, and about how anytime we make even a remote attempt at humor with them, we have to couch that in a totality of an environment of careful thought of incredible compassion and of you know attending

to the scientific principles behind diagnosing and treating these disorders that whole bullshit didn't do a fucking thing because they still got written up for that shit some somebody in the class was like i was super offended that he referenced anorexia in this way and i was like okay like it was just nowhere to go with that so after that incident that was like relatively early i just like yeah made way fewer jokes than I could have, I guess. Yeah. You have a deep academic background, deeper than most. I think Doug gets a lot of these questions, too,

as people are like, oh, what should I do if I want to be a really great coach? Should I go the academic route or should I just start coaching? What's your recommendation for that? So it depends on what – And what are you going to find in the academic setting that you're not going to find all that kind of stuff? Um, I think a basic degree in like biology,

physiology, something like that is good just so you can know the body, not just fall for total dumb shit. Like if someone asks you like, Hey, why is like fit T stupid and doesn't burn fat? If you're like, Oh,

maybe it does though. You know, you have a problem. Like you need to know basic bio, basic phys to understand muscle function, adaptation, all that other stuff. After that, a master's degree in strength and conditioning related field can be an advantage. In the modern U.S. landscape, it's a huge advantage because that's how you get interned into strength and conditioning profession. And a lot of strength and conditioning coaches are hired only if you have a master's degree and you have had formal D1, D2, D3 internship experience. Because let's be honest, if you want to do collegiate strength and conditioning, if you want to do professional strength and conditioning for teams, you almost certainly have had to have done collegiate. Collegiate's really where it's at

because you can branch out from so many other places. I mean, how many people at regular gyms will pay you for strength and conditioning coaching? If you are like, you're like, yeah, I used to coach for like Miami, like their football team or whatever. People are like, oh, that's amazing. Of course. Oh yeah. So if you, if you do the collegiate route, which is a recommended route, it's a good idea, then going for a master's degree is probably a good idea. I, in some sense, maybe not wish it was different, but I think it's totally possible to prepare someone to be a good strength coach in an undergraduate career. But most undergraduate careers, most undergraduate degree programs are not specific enough. Right.

Most undergraduate programs are just exercise science. And then the master's is what teaches strength and conditioning. Do you learn a lot in the classroom about strength and conditioning? No. There's usually just a couple programs in the United States that actually teach you stuff in the classroom, but that's where you get the internships. So if people, and they do, message me on Facebook or Instagram and something like that. Sorry, don't message me on Instagram.

I don't check DMs. It'll get lost. I don't check DMs. It'll get lost. I don't check DMs. I do check all my Facebook messages so you can holler at me. What about the dick pics? I send those anywhere. Saves them, moves on. Are you kidding me?

I'll go out looking for them that weren't even sent to me. So when people ask me and they're like, you know, I want to do this exact question. I want to get into coaching. What should I do? I'm usually like, if you're very serious about your profession, I would recommend an undergraduate degree in the biological sciences or movement sciences, kinesiology, and then a master's degree program at a place where allows you a ton of internship experience actually coaching athletes and teams. What I never want to see is individuals that got a master's degree or even higher and have never worked with athletes. They're like, no, I'm ready to be a coach like who have you coached look why haven't coached yet so you don't know anything right you know some book shit which is nice you can just read like

four books um you know just bought by yourself and know almost as much as you would out of a degree program it's the experience that counts and the way into that experience a lot of times is a master's program where you get to work for free for a football team and after that referrals i mean holy crap you know the coach knows you and you're applying to villanova or something and he's like i know the head guy there i'll put in a good word boom hire the next day otherwise if you're a strength conditioning coach and you want to break into the formal profession i don't care how many like awesome clients you've trained how many really good mma guys you've helped with you're not going to go work at a fucking college.

Because remember, the person hiring you at a college isn't actually the coach, it's the athletic director. And he's going to be like, so where's your resume? And you're like, am I hired? He's going to be like, I don't get the joke. I'm like, shit. So if you want to be a strength coach at the highest levels, I do recommend going up to a master's degree.

What about somebody who wants to be a top-level CrossFit coach or a strength coach in the strength sports, powerlifting, weightlifting? Sure. I think some academic accomplishments help bolster your resume, but you can learn almost everything you need to just by yourself, reading books. I would say if you want to become a strength coach in any of those sports or a coach in any of those sports, you have in any of the sports You have to do two things Balls deep into reading everything you can it incrementally higher and higher technical levels

Like and I've written some of these books like scientific principles of strength training is one of our like more famous books that James and I co-authored and with co-author Chad Wesley Smith actually, I don't know he may have heard of that small We did a whole show on that book. Oh, no shit. Fuck. Chad. Google it. That's right.

There you go. Chad, I didn't know you guys talked to him about that shit. I didn't see any of that money. Chad owes me money. Me neither. Wait, somebody got paid? Who's making the money here? We're going to drive up and see Chad here in an hour.

I'm not going to fight it for the money. We need all four of us to take it down. It's literally going to take all four of us. I saw a plan or two where it was like four lines trying to take down a water buffalo, and they couldn't do it. I feel like that would be us. Oh. That was amazing.

You're a fucking superhero. If I had my chopsticks, I would grab them. Would there be like a lesson of wisdom after that? Oh, yeah. Of course. For those who were only listening, we had an enormous killer bee come in. It's the size of a fucking coffee cup. That was the sound of four meatheads freaking out over one bee.

It was a bee. You know, my fiancé and I love each other dearly. And one time, this is a very special moment in our relationship. One time we were walking down the street in Philly and it was like, um, mid spring and, a bumblebee flew up to us.

We each respectively left each other behind. And we realized that, that, that nothing is going to test our relationship except for a bumblebee. If we sell that bitch down the river for that shit, if only before she does it to me, because she would ghost me in an instant.

As soon as the bee came, we literally ran in opposite directions. I was like, fuck, get her. At least you have it in common. Totally, exactly. We're just a scummy. I don't deal with bugs at all. What the fuck were we saying earlier?

I don't know. I think another way that a lot of people could learn so much about strength and conditioning is training with people that don't have the background. It's one of the reasons this guy's a freaking ninja when it comes to everything that goes on in the gym. Watching him move, it's perfect form every single single time all the levers are in the right place he's talking about doug yeah that's doug um i don't come from that mine was just kind of i've just figured this thing out by doing it all wrong um and if you can surround yourself with people that are very experienced and very knowledge in the piece that you don't have sure you're going to learn at a significantly faster rate yeah so there's there's the practical stuff so first just

real quick to finish up the book stuff scientific principles training there's a bunch of books like it bunch of books on nutrition read that shit read every article you can learn no shit don't just be ignorant asshole just start like a fucking coach man i'm not a fucking book nerd like well the fucking all the greatest coaches in the world were just lifetime learners so you're never going to be one of those right uh so do that and then on the practical side do as much as you can involve your site it baffles me when people have a coach that hasn't themselves either done that sport or very similar sport or no sport at all what the fuck like there are powerlifting

coaches that haven't competed in powerlifting at their genetic abilities high level like i literally remember when i used to low bar squat all the time my elbows would hurt and if they didn't hurt my wrists would hurt if i changed the stance or the hand position and if i changed it more to get the wrists and elbows out of the way your shoulders would hurt so like if i didn't know that shit how the fuck would i program for guys squatting way more than I ever did? You know, 800 pounds would be like, oh, yeah, we'll just do five by five. Like, you don't do five by five with 800 pounds. I don't give a shit who the fuck you are, right?

So, practical experience on yourself. And lastly, tons of experience with everyone. I think a lot of people get this idea, like, I want to be an elite strength coach. I've got to work with the best athletes. Fuck that. work with everyone's I'll tell you this if you can teach a fucking soccer mom How to do a squat properly or how to do a clean or some shit like that teaching gifted McAthlete is gonna be the easiest fucking thing you've ever done one of them when I got to work with d1 volleyball players the ETSU I remember teaching a stiff like a deadlift to a girl in one

10-second conversation. I was like, you're going to stick your hips back, and you're going to not bend your knees much, and you're going to go up and down. And she does this, and she actually went much deeper, because her hamstring flexibility is sweet. And she goes, and I'm like, that's it. I'm out. Do it. I was like, do it again.

And she's like, boom. She did the exact same thing. And I was like, we're done. And literally moved on to another girl. I was like that's it. I'm out you know I was like do it again She's like boom she did the exact same thing and I was like we're done and literally moved on to another girl I was like holy shit like you guys do realize all of us have coached if lady develops here like you're like okay now I want you to push your butt back Oh my god, are you dying? It's like a wilting flower or some shit Oh, yeah, another regular coach at a university is you might be able to teach volleyball players RDLs. Which is probably one of my favorite exercises to teach.

You know, we're coaches here, sir. You know, we're not, I mean, I'm not into all this perversion stuff. What do you think he was talking about? We were talking about fitness. That is such fitness. It's good for the ACL. I am a pure-hearted, pure-minded person who's actually sworn off any and all sexual activity. My fiance thinks we're waiting for marriage.

We're waiting for nothing. I'm never going to do that. I'm just done. I hope she doesn't hear this podcast. Honey, don't listen to that podcast, especially the end. You're going to find out some stuff. Yikes. Yeah.

She knows all this shit. She knows I'm fucked up keep it interesting for sure oh man today's been a real pleasure where uh where can people find more about what you're up to yeah nowhere i don't want to be found i'm going off the grid folks i've had enough internet fame um let's see which one's first. Renaissanceperiodization.com for all, cool. We do like diet templates and stuff

and training templates and books and people seem to like that a lot more than they like me as far as Instagram's concerned anyway. So that's good stuff. At RP Strength is our Renaissance Instagram. Tons of good stuff on there.

At RPDRMIKE, RP Dr. Mike is my Instagram. Mostly pictures of me in compromising half-naked positions. Bodybuilding. Shady pictures of food. Although, I realized that to take good... So, Chad Wesley Smith was on my

ass about this shit. He was like, your food pictures suck. Because I would take food pictures and people would be like, are you eating shit? And I'm like, damn it, that's a cheeseburger. You have to... Do you guys know this? You have to zoom in on food a lot. And then it just, like, all the morsels and shit. And people are like, oh, my God, that's so good.

And I'm like, trust me, it was nothing. Lights are above. Your hands are in the middle. Shadows are below. Watch out. If you have iPhone 7 or above, portrait mode. But you got to get a good distance from your food. Damn, dude.

Yeah. So check out the Instagram story. Every time Mike eats, don't check out mine. Cause it looks like shit. Yeah. It just sucks when you're in a restaurant with low light, you know,

that portrait mode, you get pissed. You're like, this is bullshit. Why are there no lights? You're like, sir, it's a dining establishment.

Like, no, this is an Instagram establishment. So I can Like you got like fucking studio lights That's permit for life I like to be a role model to show people what's possible. Exactly. Exactly.

In the world of food. My life is a show so that you guys can be entertained. And to make people jealous. The purpose of life. And then lastly, Facebook. Mike Izzardel on Facebook. It's a public account. Come troll me.

Come follow me. I do answer a whole bunch of questions on there. Facebook is where to get more of my intellectual contents. Because I'll be that cocksucker that posts like a 5 sub.3 mini sub. intellectual triest on strength and conditioning and I don't have any real life. You're actually adding

quality content to Facebook? I'm trying. Some people are like TLDR. I'm like fucking murder you. So anyway, that's my shit. Oh my God. Thank you for joining us today. This was one of the more fun conversations I think I've had here. Well, Yahoo.

Thanks so much for having me, gentlemen. And by the way, from all of us that don't live in San Diego, fuck you guys for this weather. I have to go back to Philadelphia. We're literally Grandfather Freeze or whatever. I believe Mr. Freeze is actually our mayor currently. I am Sunberg right now. Yeah. In January. Good job, Anders.

All right, Anders, where can people find you and what you're up to? Come to movement-rx.com. Dr. Teresa and I are combining strength training, physical therapy, assessments, mobility, stability, exercises to get you out of knee, shoulder, low back pain, solutions for gym owners, low back pain. Solutions for gym owners, functional fitness athletes. Come and hang out with us at movement-rx.com.

Where are you, Doug? If you want to get my thoughts on fitness, you can go to douglarsenfitness.com. I've got content on there. You can come work with me and come to my seminars, et cetera. So go to douglarsenfitness.com. And if you're interested in more stuff I'm cetera. So go to DougLarsenFitness.com. And if you're interested in more stuff I'm up to, go over to TheBledsoeShow.com. I've got a whole other podcast where we discuss a lot of nonsense that you're going to really enjoy. I'll see you there.

Yes. I think I'll be interviewing you over there soon. We actually have some other topics that we share interest. It's going to be fun. I imagine it'll be economics and mushrooms and science. The economics of mushroom science. Put it all together. Yeah. If you enjoyed this show, which you made it to the end,

which I know you did, go over to iTunes. Five-star review. Pause it at comment. Head over to YouTube. Subscribe there. Cool videos going up all the time and we'll see you next week thanks for making it all the way to the end of the show if you like the show which i know you did please go share it on facebook instagram or whatever social media channel you happen to be loving at the moment pinterest twitter tumblr tumblr share it on tumblr next on on Barbell Shrug,

the funniest show we've done today with Ryan Fisher.