Barbell Shrugged - Orgasmic Birth, Hyper-Flexibility, and What Happened To My Abs? Busting Myths About Fitness During and Post-Pregnancy with The Fit Fourth Founder Melissa Paris — Muscle Maven Radio Episode #9

Episode Date: April 4, 2019

Melissa Paris is a certified Personal Trainer with a degree in Nutrition and Dietetics and a background in anatomy, physiology, organic chemistry and medical nutrition that helps her coach clients of at any age to master their fitness and wellness goals. She has developed a fitness program called The Fit Fourth to help moms gain back strength and confidence postpartum. This class covers breathing techniques, posture, and core; all essential foundational skills needed before high impact activities. The FF helps transition new moms back in to running, HIIT classes, and weight training as well as support long term goals.   Ashleigh chats with personal trainer Melissa Paris, founder of The Fit Fourth program for new moms, to chat all about the myths, fears, challenges, and goals surrounding pregnancy and post-pregnancy health and fitness. They cover topics like ab separation; pelvic floor health; the type, frequency, and intensity of workouts for pregnant women and new moms; how to prepare for the type of birth you want to have, and much more.   Minute Breakdown:   0 - 8 Intro to Melissa’s passion for postpartum health and her fitness program The Fit Fourth; a discussion about scary post-pregnancy fitness myths      8 – 13 Special considerations and fitness needs for pregnant and postpartum women; what diastasis recti (ab separation) is and how to manage it   13 - 17   Generally what kinds of movements and workouts are good for pregnant women, as well as a discussion about frequency and intensity   17 – 27 We talk pelvic health and why it’s important for everyone, male or female, pregnant or not; the differences between an over or underactive pelvic floor, and when kegels are helpful or not so helpful     27 – 36 A discussion about birth plans, birth positions, ways to prepare yourself for “the big show”   36 – 39 Are orgasmic births really a thing?   39 – 47 How to manage workouts, stability, and pain when you experience increased flexibility and loosening of joints and ligaments as the body prepares for birth.     47 –Resources and ways to find a knowledgeable trainer or training program for pregnant or post-natal women   ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Show notes: http://www.shruggedcollective.com/mmr-paris ----------------------------------------------------------------------   ► Subscribe to Shrugged Collective's Channel Here http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Shrugged Collective is a network of fitness, health and performance shows that help people achieve their physical and mental health goals.  Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first Barbell Shrugged podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast. Find Shrugged Collective and their flagship show Barbell Shrugged here: SUBSCRIBE ON ITUNES ► http://bit.ly/ShruggedCollectiveiTunes WEBSITE ► https://www.ShruggedCollective.com INSTAGRAM ► https://instagram.com/shruggedcollective FACEBOOK ► https://facebook.com/barbellshruggedpodcast TWITTER ► http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged

Hey everybody, welcome to Muscle Maven Radio. I'm your host, The Muscle Maven. Do I need another name? That is my showbiz name, so we're going to stick with it. Okay, today we're talking about a very specific and totally unique time in a person's fitness journey, and that is the period of pregnancy and post-pregnancy. So if any brave men are listening to this, it applies to you too if you have a partner who is, or may one day become pregnant, because you need this information too. There is a lot going on as you can imagine biologically and physiologically and mentally, um, in the body of a woman who is literally growing another human inside them. But that doesn't mean that we just become sitting

baby making machines. Most of us still want to be fit and move, especially if we were doing that before we became pregnant. And generally, it's advisable to continue to do that within reason while you're pregnant and certainly after pregnancy. Of course, keeping in consideration any complications or challenges that an individual may have. But today, I am speaking with a fitness coach whose specialty is working with pregnant and post-pregnant women. Her name is Melissa Paris, and she developed her own program called the Fit Fourth for the fourth trimester, aka when the baby's out. And we talk about a lot of stuff.

We talk about myths and scary falsehoods around women's bodies and capabilities and abilities while they're pregnant. We talk about how your body really does change and how that can affect your workouts and your goals. And we dive deep into crazy stuff like ab separation, pelvic floor health, that insane old wives tale, or maybe true tale that you may have heard about women having orgasms during delivery. So yeah, it gets spicy. Anyway, I was able to catch up with Melissa in person in New York at the space where she trains clients and records some of her classes. The place is called Neo U and you can actually

access her coaching if you are not in New York via the Neo U app. So I'm going to put that in the show notes for you. Um, but you know, as a woman who may one day undertake this Epic fitness goal of growing and birthing a human, it was just awesome to have a really straightforward conversation with someone whose mission is empowering women to have informed fit and healthy pregnancy and post pregnancy experiences. So I hope you enjoyed the episode. And if you do, please share it with anyone with a uterus that you think could benefit. Share it on social media and tag me at The Muscle Maven. You can tag Melissa at Melissa Paris Fitness and of course, Shrug Collective so that we can share it too. All right, that's it. Here's my chat with Melissa Paris.

Melissa, thank you for being here. I'm so excited. Thank you for having me. We got lots to talk about. Yep. First, I would like you to introduce yourself to me and to our listeners. Just tell us who you are and what you do. So my name is Melissa Paris. I've been a trainer for years. I went to school for nutrition, but my passion is really helping people move better. And fast forward, when I had children, I realized that my calling was truly to work with moms. And as I went further down this mom road, I really found a lot of need and opportunity for more specifics around postpartum health. So that's what I do. I really do the full spectrum of pregnancy and postpartum, but I created this program called the Fit Forth, which I now teach at NEO-U, so you can get it on demand. And I'm really passionate about it because like I said, there's just such a need for more fitness

related specifically to postpartum uh because you the standard of care in the United States is that you go to your six-week checkup and you're cleared to go back to work out and when I had my second one my second child I was I was cleared to work out at my six-week checkup and I was like what does that even mean yeah I can go swing kettlebells. I can go do pull-ups. Deadlift. Yeah, can I deadlift? Can I rack the bar?

What kind of workout? Run? That's high impact? So I realized that there was just, there's a lot of, you have to really seek out really good pre-postnatal trainers. And I just really saw that there was a need. So I created this program to sort of bridge the gap between your six week postpartum checkup and getting back to work now. Okay. I love that. Um, I am somebody who does not have any kids, but it could very possibly be in my future. So I'm, I'm very interested in it because one of the things that I hear as somebody

who doesn't have kids, I tend to hear more of the horror stories. And I think that's the way it goes. Like people don't say like, this is amazing. And I got back to it and I'm fit and it's just like your it's it's your life and your fitness life is a journey no matter what whether you have kids or not things evolve and change as you age as you have injuries as you have new goals like it's it's a whole journey anyway I tend to see like the scary bad stuff where it's like well you're gonna pee your pants every time you do double unders now and your abs separate and they never go back. I want to talk to you about all of these. My brain is going in 75 directions.

Yeah. Okay. Ab separation, double unders, peeing your pants. There's so much. But okay. So how many kids do you have? I have two. I have two boys.

You have two boys. Okay. And you were, so you were always into fitness and working out. And then when you were experiencing your pregnancies and post-pregnancy and the kind of challenges and differences in your body from that, you were like, all right, there's, this is an area that I'm passionate about that I want to learn about what talk us through like that moment of, of feeling that and then developing your program. Right.

What kind of like research and work and stuff did you do to get there so I read a lot and now I'm finding that all I read about is diastasis pelvic floor pelvic pain and luckily so let me rewind so the reason I went down this path is because with my first pregnancy super easy pregnancy didn't gain a lot weight, but I wound up with a C-section. And it's sort of, I didn't realize until maybe two or three years later that it really kind of rocked me a little bit because I just didn't understand why. I truly wound up with a C-section. led me down this path of like just research and asking a lot of questions and reaching out to people who had a more holistic approach about pregnancy and postpartum so I talked to pelvic floor therapists I talked to my chiropractor a lot acupuncturist with my second pregnancy I decided

to get a doula so so my second so through in between pregnancies I actually was the fittest I ever been because I went from sort of traditional type exercise to like mostly kettlebells swinging kettlebells doing pull-ups and I was the fittest I've ever been the leanest I've ever been then I got pregnant with my second and I was like okay I'm pregnant now I need to have a really healthy mindset going into this I really wanted to go for a v-back um a vaginal birth after a c-section um so I wound up hiring a doula and just going down this path of like reading finding out more and more about my body and I was just really curious right so um I did wind up with a successful VBAC I was really excited about that I feel

I felt very empowered and I felt like I really wanted to give that gift to a lot of women whether it is that you choose whatever whatever it is that you decide to choose to do doesn't matter you should feel that your pregnancy and your birth is super empowering. So I just have some control over the decisions that you're making. Yes, and just educated around whatever that decision is. So then I went to my six week checkup and they were like, you're cleared to work out. And I was like, cleared to work out? I just birthed a human out of my vagina. Okay so like bones have to move, like tissue has to soften.

You make another organ on top of having a baby. Your organs move to accommodate space. You aren't exhaling the way that you were. You're super in extension for, you know, nine months. Because your posture changes, everything. I was like, okay, I'm like, I don't think I'm ready to go back to swinging like my whatever it was.

Yeah. Doing a Turkish get up with a 28 kg. I don't know. So I was really, I felt really inspired to create this program around postpartum health. And like helping women sort of regain back their breath their pelvic floor and just understanding that there needs to be a little bit of rehab or prehab work before you go back to lifting heavy weights running running whatever it is that you decide to do to makes you feel better to get a sweat um i just truly passionate about, regaining back that strength for you.

You know, I ran into a woman today on the street. She's like, I'm running. I just had a baby two months ago. I'm running. I'm going to go do the New York city half. And in my brain, I'm like, Oh, please no. Like, please no. We need to work on stabilizing your pelvis.

Um, so yeah, I just, I really feel like it's like my mission to empower women with the right tools so that you have like such a a long term I'm thinking long term bigger picture yeah and I think that's important too because you touched on like the v-back thing which again as somebody who I have never had a kid but I know lots of people who have had kids and I'm very interested in it so every one of my friends who's had a baby I'm like tell me every single detail. Yes. All of it. Everything. I don't know. There's a sort of a myth out there that if you have a baby by C-section, that's how you're going to have the rest of your babies. That's just the way it goes.

And that's another one of those, like, well, you just, because you listen to the doctor, you listen to what the doctor tells you, you don't ask questions, you don't say, well, this is, I'd like to try this a different way. And so some of that, that empowering thing is just educating yourself and knowing and knowing that there are other options, or at least you can kind of ask those questions for yourself. Um, but so speaking to that, I think that there's also an assumption for some women that having a baby changes you physically permanently, and that's it. And if you have like ab separation issues, or if you have a pelvic floor weakness like that's a sacrifice that comes with having a baby and I'm not saying obviously that

you can and should be exactly the same before or after whatever yeah but I think that knowing that there isn't some kind of like death sentence for the your potential fitness when you've had a kid like you sacrifice your body and it's over and I absolutely not yeah I'd love for you to talk about, so most of your clients, do you pretty much just do like one-on-one? Like you, you. Mostly one-on-one. Okay.

And are a lot of these women, are you getting them like before they get pregnant, as they're pregnant? Do some, do they come to you after mostly or? So I'm finding that, um, people are succumbing to me pregnant because all of a sudden they start going back to their regular, you know, they're going to the regular class and then they feel something, whether it's low back, pelvic pain, you know, something creeps up, foot, like all sorts of things happen in your body as soon as you get pregnant, right? Your hormones shift, your joints get lax, like like but it all levels out right so I feel like it's such a delicate time of knowing how to you know ebb and flow through these times adjust and know that maybe you can go back or you might have to switch your favorite exercise that you were doing previously it doesn't have to be a change forever. Right. So I, I get people a lot of times pregnant because

they're still a little bit nervous about what to do and what not to do. And there's so much information out there on Dr. Google, which is like, Oh, please don't Google anything. Um, because there's just a lot of confusion around ab separation. Right. So just to touch on that for a little bit. Yeah. Talk to me about ab separation. Cause just to touch on that for a little bit yeah talk to you about separation because it sounds so scary oh you know so just like our cervix dilates and contracts to help the baby down the birth canal that's it's the same sort of tissue in it's called a linear Alba in your ab abdominal muscles so it has to expand to accommodate space for the baby but this is happening

during pregnancy so this is happening during pregnancy. So this is like that line that you get on your belly. That's related to it. And some people get it worse than others. But it has to soften and expand to just allow space for the baby. Where your organ is going to go. Where is the placenta going to go. But your body is very smart.

It's designed to go back. So with proper rest, recovery, nutrition, and the proper exercise, it goes back, right? So if we rush back, sometimes you can cause problems that weren't necessarily there before. So although you may feel good at your six week postpartum checkup, it doesn't necessarily mean that your insides are ready to start the impact of what you were doing pre-pregnancy. Right? So everybody is different and a lot of it is genetic. So the key thing I always go back to is your body is very smart.

So as long as you give it the time to heal, it goes back. Right? With the proper exercise, rest, and nutrition. Like anything else. That's easier said than done for all these like type a i know crossfit people who are like oh i feel okay i'm gonna go back to like my hardcore workouts later and that's why i think it's it's so ingrained in me too to feel like this is my purpose to sort of get out a message because i was that woman pregnant with

my second one doing pull-ups in my third trimester you know I was like all right I still gotta get my 10 pull-ups in you know but I also adjusted the volume so if I wanted to hit a certain amount of pull-ups in a workout I was like okay well maybe I do two on the minute for a half an hour as opposed to trying to get 10 reps in you know you just have to think about doing things a little bit smarter in the long run because you are growing a human and your hormones are completely different than they were yeah you have to respect how epic that process is it's so epic and it's so far much it's so much bigger than your one workout yeah that you know it's just i think i also have to remind moms moms about all the time i had a mom this

morning she's like i'm just so tired i'm like like, well, if you can take a nap, take a nap. Like you're growing a human. Like it's kind of a big deal. There's a little bit of ego involved too, I think, because we, you know, we get so wrapped up in working out and how important that is and how good it makes us feel and how it makes us look and all these things. And we think that if we're fit people while we're pregnant, being, continuing to be that kind of fit is good because it's supporting your health and then the baby's health. But I think more of a switch to like, is being mindful about whatever your, your workout practices, is that actually supporting the process of having a healthy pregnancy? Or is it just you having an ego wanting to go in and deadlift while you're six months

pregnant? Right. And that's the thing too. I think it's so important to stay pregnant while you, if you can, if there's no complications during pregnancy. Stay active during pregnancy. Stay active during pregnancy. It's so imperative because yes, it is so much, forget about just, it's not about aesthetics. It's about your mental state of mind. If that makes you feel better, great. But if you're leaving a workout exhausted, you probably pushed it a little too far.

Okay. Let's talk more about the abs again. So when you're pregnant, fully pregnant, and I tend to do a mix of bodybuilding style workouts and functional CrossFit stuff. And then I'll do jujitsu and boxing because I like to learn a skill. But I'm doing generally pretty functional but lifting weights kinds of workouts. I don't do a lot of very specific ab core workouts unless you consider deadlifts and kettlebells and stuff ab work, which it is. I mean, it's core work, right? But when you're pregnant, should you be doing, and I'm using air quotes here for the listeners, core workouts?

Yeah. Okay. For sure. Like what kinds of? As you know, pull-ups are core. Right. A heavy goblet squat is core. Okay.

You don't need to be doing crunches though. No. Okay. I will start, most of my clients pregnant are not just doing breathing exercises, right? So many of us, because we're doing so many things in life, are not just doing breathing exercises right so so much so many of us because we're doing so many things in life are not exhaling so and pregnant women especially can't really exhale especially in a third trimester because your your ribs are not where they were before so i will start a lot of people just doing exhale movements all of this is core

because it's all connected right so breath core pelvic floor um i do that with most people whether they realize it or not because it's just all connected and is that the same kind of stuff that you would encourage women to do after they give birth as well to bring things back into place okay so a lot so the fit fourth is basically it's a lot of it's all mat mat work. So we're not doing, you know, there's no jumping. It's all a lot of supine, so on your back movements. Trying to figure out how to get your hamstrings back to pull you back out of extension. And working on that exhale.

So a lot of times if you just work on adductors and exhaling with postnatal people, you're already giving them like. A lot. A lot, yes. And I just gave the listeners a lot of times if you just work on adductors and exhaling with postnatal people, you're already giving them like a lot. Yes. And I just gave the listeners a lot. So exhaling, adductors, you're already like, you're way far ahead of the game. Okay. Just working on those two things. And how, I mean, I guess this is so individual to the person

and how their pregnancy was and what their fitness level was and their goals and how busy they are and all these things. But how much are you working with these women? Like, is this like a couple of times a week for an hour? You work walking them through like full workouts plus stretching plus breathing exercise. Like how does that come? Right. So ideally I see somebody twice a week, but it just varies.

It depends on, um, you know, it depends on the resources. Like how much can you afford to see a trainer? How much time do you have in a day, especially if you do have a newborn? The beauty of New York City is I can go to people's homes, right? I can zip around on the subway and like see a couple people in a day. And no one has to come to me, especially a mom. I highly encourage that you do the best you can to make people come to you because it's your very precious time. So, yeah, I try to see people twice a week.

Again, like I'm only one person and there are more people out there like me. But you can get a lot out of one or two sessions a week. Yeah. And then maybe some homework. I'll give people some homework to do. Do you see yourself in the future as this program that you've developed grows like training other people to do this yeah I'd love to do that I really um I think my long-term vision is that I just hope women give themselves at least that first

six weeks to do nothing and by nothing I mean you can do some light breathing exercises you can go for some walks with your baby but that's really a time to be bonding with your baby and getting to know your body and like what your body needs and re you know, trying to sleep when you can and trying to get the proper nutrition and then exercise comes later. And I think long-term, I'd love to have more people on the same team. And because there's such an opportunity and lack of care for the postpartum woman I I'm trying to encourage all of my moms to see a pelvic floor person postpartum before they go back to working out and I even had the experience my doctor's like oh you don't need a pelvic you don't need to go see a pelvic floor person and I'm like I am anyway you know I want

to know what's going on down there I want to to know if I'm, you know, overusing my pelvic floor, underusing my pelvic floor. And it makes my job as a trainer and your sessions so much better if we know what's going on internally to assess what's going on externally. So I think, yeah, I'd love to have more people creating and helping and spreading that message. I have two boys, but I didn't realize how much of a woman's advocate I am about this. I feel like we just need help. And way back in the day, we had tribes of women helping us. It's true, it does take a village. And now we just have to seek out our tribe because, just like you,

our family lives kind of all over the place. So we just have to seek out our women. And I just realize how important it is to have that. Yeah. lives kind of all over the place um so we just have to seek out our women and i'm so much so like i just realized how important it is to have that yeah it's funny how all of this stuff is so connected because i literally just this weekend i was in jersey going to this um art of breath seminar with power speed endurance you know brian mckenzie and so it was this like day-long seminar teaching um like oxygen efficiency and how to like open up your, like your back and the ribs and stuff to breathe properly and movement mechanics to breathe better

and all of this stuff. It's all so connected. But, um, somebody that I met there that I'm actually going to have on the podcast in the future, she's a pelvic floor specialist. And I'm like, I need to have her on because that is a very specific, but incredibly complicated part of our health and our anatomy there's so much going on there right it's not just for women obviously there's a lot of ways that pelvic health can go wrong right exactly um and it's just so specific so i'm gonna have her on the podcast at some point to talk to but let's talk a little bit more about that and like the whole like the kegels thing and the double unders and like why so

like why is that kind of like that um high impact running bouncing all of that stuff not a good idea for pregnant or recently pregnant people yeah so if you think about your um pelvic floor like a trampoline okay right so and when you have, when you get pregnant, automatically like you have hormones going on in the body that relax your body, right? Certain people are affected that you can have like weird feet problems because your joints are relaxing to allow and to accommodate space for this new growing baby.

It's amazing. And besides your, just your pelvic floor, like your hips, you know, people get some weird wrist things. You can have all, like your joints joints are relaxed your hips actually are like yeah you're gonna separate your right tailbone moves when your baby comes out yes and I don't want I don't say that to make anyone scared or terrified right I'm saying that so it makes a more impact as to what you think you should be doing post baby right it goes back the body is very smart if you allow it

to do that right right? It's a gift. Um, but I always try to explain the pelvic floor. I'm like, it's like the base of your house, right? Would you, would you not train the base of your house? And the reason why I like people see a pelvic floor person is you could be peeing your pants from an underactive pelvic floor or an overactive pelvic floor, right? So it's important for me as a coach to know how to cue the breath, right? If I'm telling you to do a million Kegels but you already have an overactive pelvic floor, you are going to have a much harder time relaxing that pelvic floor.

So that's why I love to refer to the pelvic floor person and then they can give me a really good snapshot of what this person is doing while they're breathing sometimes people aren't engaging their deep abdominal muscles or just engaging their superficial abdominal and they could appear as if they have no diastasis but they may have some pelvic floor issues and there's not really any way for the individual or even somebody knowledgeable like yourself to tell whether it's under or overactive they kind of have to see a specialist to get that yeah because the specialist can do internal work right right um also you know the breath like i'm gonna go back to the breath the core on the pelvic

floor um being in tune with your breath can help a lot um and it and i'm always bringing people back to that because if you're not exhaling you're not going to be able to engage those deep abdominal muscles if you're constantly inhaling. Tell me about Kegels. Yeah, so Kegels are interesting. I feel like sometimes they could be overcoached. Again, I'm a super type A, you know, driven person. So I could have an overactive pelvic floor you know it's constantly kegeling and it's like your arm is stuck in a flex position right i know what that's like so

how are you supposed to relax that if you've never practiced relaxing that right so it's important to know how to do both ends of the spectrum it's a skill right you need to be able to learn it's just like meditating right not everybody can meditate they don't know how to relax. It doesn't come naturally, right? So it's important to understand how to contract and to relax the pelvic floor, not only to allow for like a quote, air quotes, easier labor, but for pelvic health. Forget if you want children or not, you should be able to contract and relax your pelvic floor because what are some other for for any men who are still listening to this yeah yeah we're doing that but also women who aren't pregnant or don't plan to become pregnant

what are some other problems or issues you can come into from a general health or a fitness perspective if you don't yeah some of the things that pop into my head immediately which people don't love to talk about is pain during sex whether it's at insertion like right beginning part where it's not even penis may not even be in yet or well inside okay right so that could mean two different things again that's for a public health specialist to describe you know to um so pain during sex um incontinence um dryness there's all sorts of interesting you know that could that dryness usually disappears after breastfeeding because your hormones go back to normal okay but they're all these things could happen without having a baby right okay um tell me a little bit about the differences in your

first, um, pregnancy and birth and the second, like, cause you said obviously a C-section the first time and not the second time. What are some things that you did differently, both for like your health, but also you said you had a doula, like maybe working with your doctor differently, kind of just walk me through that process. Yeah. So I, I, I was that person listening to the doctors and all those things that when my water broke with my first pregnancy, I rushed to the hospital. It's like, okay, water broke, rushed to the hospital. So as soon as I got to the hospital, I was on the clock. Um, basically nothing was really progressing. And I feel like maybe if I was at home I would have had some time to sort of let the birth progress naturally um but I had all sorts of things given

to me you know pitocin then I had an epidural and still no progression did you have a birth plan going into this like I want to do it naturally I don't want that like did you have an idea in your head of how you wanted to go I think because this you know is something that happens every day a lot of times a day I was like oh it's gonna be great I'm gonna have that like I just kind of assumed in my head I was gonna have this vaginal birth um and he was really stuck and I think part of the reason why the baby was stuck was that I was lying down. I had an epidural. My body couldn't really move and accommodate the space for him that it needed to. My coccyx was stuck.

It's supposed to move back. So it was just, he was stuck. And after many, many hours of pushing, they call it asynclinic. So he was kind of twisted and trying to come out from the side because he couldn't twist and come down naturally because of the way that my hips are shaped but I didn't know any of this until I really asked a lot of questions because once I went back to the doctor postpartum you know afterwards for my one year checkup and then two year I was like I don't understand how did he get stuck what you know they were like well

you're just not a good candidate for a v-back your hips are too small like that doesn't make sense what do you mean my hips are too small um so anyway I switched practices wound up uh going down this very road of research and hired the doula and everybody's like you're you know it's fine just we gotta be relaxed and I wound up testing out different positions with a pelvic floor person as to how to get my hips to open up wider. So I wouldn't necessarily be on my back, but I could be lying on my side with a ball in between my legs. And what I found out afterwards, after I did have the successful VBAC, is that my second one, Jordan, did get stuck like my first one, but because I was more mobile and able to move a little bit more He was able to sort of maneuver his way down and around and back out because of it however my hips are shaped or might need my

tailbone was able to actually move because I was on my side whatever it was he came out and Each recovery was completely different because I had a C-section and neither one was necessarily that hard. Yeah. Like it's hard, but it wasn't like I didn't want the C-section because of the recovery. Sure. Right. Well, I hear that C-section recoveries are actually a lot, potentially a lot longer and

harder than a vaginal birth because it's a surgery. It's major abdominal surgery. Um, I forget how many layers of tissue um but yeah no it's it's major abdominal surgery right so I wanted to avoid surgery that's really I wanted to avoid surgery if I could again I would never put myself or my baby at risk for anything I just wanted to do what I thought was the best for my body and for the baby um and with a little bit of education and coaching and positive support I've really surrounded myself with with like amazing group of women. Um, and just sort of, I did a lot of meditation and visualization kind of like a sports player would do, right? Like what do you want to do if you want to win

the Superbowl? Like you do a ton of visualization and through my meditations, I would visualize how I wanted the end result to be. Yeah. Okay. So I like that you touched on the position part of this because this is one conversation, again, as I'm kind of getting closer to getting my head around having a kid. Because for a long time, I was really on the fence about it. And it still may not be something that happens, but I'm thinking about it now. Yeah, I'm thinking about it. And one of the things that never seemed to make sense to me from the research that I did, and I've watched a couple documentaries, I've done some reading,

and I don't want this to come across as like super conspiracy theory against doctors, but it does seem to be in a lot of cases that the system is set up for how we can make this the easiest for doctors versus the woman who's giving birth. And one of the ways that i see it that and you please correct me yeah yeah yeah but one of the things that i see is like just this natural inclination to get somebody laying down in a hospital bed and one of the things that that people that they tell you is when you're laboring it's sort of like you're you're pooping right like you're bearing down you're pushing down does anybody poop lying on their back i mean

there's a lot of ways. There's a very simple gravity aspect to this. When you watch documentaries and you talk to doulas and what's the other, midwives and stuff like that. It seems to make a lot more sense to at least allow some room and freedom to move around, to walk, to sit on a ball, to squat, to be on all fours, to move in a way that can open up your body and allow gravity to kind of do some things. And I'm thinking in my head, like, why, why is everybody lying down when it seems like such a unnatural position from which to push maybe because it's easier for the doctor, not necessarily for you. Can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah. So that was a major difference between my first and my second. And I knew that. So I knew that I had to go in

to the second one in a really good state of mind because I knew that I was going to have to move around a lot. I knew I was going to have to be really strong and I don't mean like strong, like lifting a million pounds weight. Like I just knew that I was going to have to be really strong and I don't mean like strong, like lifting a million pounds weight. Like I just knew that I was going to have to have massive endurance. Um, and I was very mobile with the second. And I think that was ingrained in my head because of what, because of what I understood of how my, my narrow, my hips were right. So I was like, okay, well I'm going to need to have to be very mobile. And I did not want to be lying down. I wound up birthing my second one on my side with a ball, and a ball was in between my legs to allow him to kind of do the natural thing

that your body wants to do, and you're 100% correct. If you look back at pictures, you know, old birthing pictures, I'm that person now that that's all I do is watch births and on Instagram I'm not that quite that far I still find that kind of traumatizing yeah I did it with my first with my second I'm like I'll wake up to a picture I'm like oh my god there's so beautiful yeah I like I'm like literally no I'm supposed to do this because I like it doesn't get old for me I'm like oh my god there's a baby it's you know the sack and I love I love the whole thing but I I do think it's best

if you can allow your body to move around as much as possible is is it in the general sort of American mainstream medical community is it acceptable because I think this is another thing that people just take for granted this is the way it goes you go into the hospital you lie on the bed the doctor tells you what to do if I was like look doc like I want to do this on all fours like you're gonna make this happen like can they can they fight you on that or can they say like hey however you want to do this we're gonna accommodate it how does that work so this is so because I was going for that v-back and I was considered high risk I knew that I was gonna also need like a shield against me with with maybe the medical

staff and so I guess I hired the doula and you did somebody there on my side being an advocate being an advocate for me because my husband and I they really just scare you with the VBAC like you have a higher you know rate for uterine rupture and it's like you know you really have to read your statistics right um but if it's your first or second or whatever and it's pretty straightforward like no you labor and birth how you want to right as long, but I knew that I was just in a different situation because of the VBAC and they were going to, you know, try to encourage, try to encourage certain things. And I really didn't want anyone to get into my head about it. I was really sensitive to

it. Okay. All right. You talk about endurance. Yeah. And I think this is something that probably a lot of women who have had babies can echo that. And I have heard over and over again, of course, that just like with any experience that you have in life, having a base of fitness and strength is going to help you. You know, if you're somebody who works out and tries to be strong and functionally fit and all these things, you're at an advantage to somebody who does not do any of those things. Of course, what are some,

what are some workouts or exercises or things that women can think about practicing in when they're thinking about getting pregnant, when they're pregnant, if they're healthy, that are going to help them prepare for this big show, like in terms of endurance and that kind of stuff what are some things that we can think about doing right so going back to your just our previous conversation on how you're going to birth what kind of positions you want to be in what if you need to be squatting

through your contractions so maybe you should work on your squat right so um crawling i love doing crawling with my clients again this you know, as long as they're keeping everything stable and their pelvis looks good and it doesn't affect their low back and their belly doesn't get too big, I love crawling with my clients. I try to strengthen the movements that we think they might be in for labor. And again, if they are lying down, obviously it's just more about endurance. It's about being able to get yourself through the contraction. Not just through it, but get on top of it.

Own it. And then get to the next one. So a lot of birth people, people that are in the birthing world, try to kind of describe it like, would you ever not train for a marathon? The average birth is twice as long as what I think a marathon. The average time for a marathon marathon is what four hours or something like that the average birth is I think twice as long something like that it's quoted somewhere so you know I always say that you might would you ever not

train for a marathon I understand that it is a time during where you do me I wouldn't suggest getting your one one rep max during pregnancy like it's not a time to be doing that but it's a time to learn how to do some functional stuff at for that for this particular thing right you you train a particular way for a marathon you could train a particular way for the crossfit game you would train a particular way for for praying postnatal right it's the same thing you just have to look at it like your particular thing that you what's this goal yes what's this end goal right and it's the same thing you just have to look at it like your particular thing that you what's this goal what's this end goal right and it's for that moment in time so I would never want because I'm definitely that that person that's like okay I want to do my 100 snatches in my five minutes

because that's what I did for my sfg and believe me I like love my strength training but you have to look at it like this is your goal for that specific moment. And how am I going to not just get there, but get there feeling awesome. You know, like empowered and awesome and have set yourself up for a better recovery. Not once with my second one did I think about the gym for the six weeks postpartum. My second one, I was like, okay, like I was itching a little bit. I was like, how do I get back? How do I do this? And like, instead of just like enjoying that moment and realizing you literally birth,

you made a human, you make a human and then you birth the human and then you keep that human alive with your own bodily fluid. Like it's kind of insane. And then this little heart walks around outside of you. That's a piece of you. It's kind of incredible. Like I love my male clients, but they'll never get to experience this. Right.

So I also read somewhere a woman's body changes more in ten months and a man's body will ever change in a lifetime again sorry, but it's kind of incredible and I just I really want to give people the tools so that they feel the same sort of feeling that I deal with my second Right like with with Jordan Augie sort of my first child led me to this journey of like research and I truly think he gave me a gift of like now I understand like what my my passion is he under he pushed me to like ask questions and then with Jordan he was sort of like this healing baby where he he came out I was like okay now I know how to do now I know how to do this and now

I want to give people this gift of like how to to, how to own it. Yeah. I think I appreciate it as somebody who again has, has always kind of looked at it. Like it's a terrifying ordeal that you just have to endure. Yeah. No, I'm more cynical probably than the average woman. Cause I've never had that sort of like overtly, like, I definitely want to have a baby. I'm super like maternal about it. I've always been like it, maybe it'll happen. I don i don't know whatever but i have always looked at it like this is like this scary thing that is happening to you right to get through right instead of thinking it is a completely natural not easy but a completely natural thing that your body is designed to do so i think this word empowered that you're using is really, it's not a cliche

thing. It's a very important thing to internalize as a woman that it can be scary and it can be hard and it can be complicated and things can come that are out of your control. But there is a lot that you can control. There's a lot you can prepare for. There are things you can do to, you know, prepare mentally and physically for this. Oh, a hundred percent. And I read this book in between pregnancies called birth without fear okay um i highly recommend it it's amazing and it's some of its history but it talks a lot about like fear around pregnancy there's so many positive stories in there around like some women can have orgasms well can you imagine that can you have an orgasm time stamp

are we out here 36 okay i gotta remember this an orgasm? What time stamp are we at here? 36. Okay. I got to remember this. An orgasm during birth? Is that real though? Okay. I wasn't that woman kissing my husband during birth. Like I was more like chewing on ice chips, but hey, listen. How rare is that? Like how? I don't know the statistics on it, but I mean, the stories can't be made up.

Like, is it something, do you think that it's almost like an involuntary because there's so much stimulation stuff goingary because there's so much stimulation stuff going on there's so much oxytocin i'm actually trying to be sexually aroused right now like there's so much oxytocin and that's the beauty of the body right so going back to your fear factor yeah you know the body gives you what you can handle right so in between contractions you're given this burst of oxytocin. It's like, okay, I can do it. I can do the next one. So it's, and I can say this because I did it, right?

So your body's really smart. It's designed to sort of give you the break when you think you can't do it. And then you actually do it. And you're like, holy shit, I did it. And it's really incredible. It's really smart. But I highly suggest that book. It's really incredible. It's really smart. But I highly suggest that book. It's really good.

It's a lot of positive, positive stories. And it sort of helps you think about it in a different way. And I remember something my doula said to me when I was going through some intense contractions. She looks at me, and she's like, and it was her. Like, I love my husband, but it was her. Because he's not going through it, really. Yeah, he doesn't get it. He doesn't get it.

And I love him, and like, you know, but she looked at me, and she goes, get on top of it. And but she looked at me she goes get on top of it and I was like okay I'm on top of it I'm not gonna like because the moment we give into anything right and when we get scared and fearful we're like weak and like curled in but the moment you're like okay I'm gonna own it like a lion you're just completely look at it in a different way and I'm gonna ride this way yeah I think it was just a year ago so I wish I could like go back to that moment be like what I like what would I told myself then but I do truly feel like like the as my you know I would love to have a third child so I'm like I wonder what the third one would be like um but I I do feel like I just was so empowered with my second one that I really feel like I would the whole goal behind this fit

forth is to give women the tools to feel that way as well. What about, you mentioned, um, a lot of stuff going on with, um, increased sort of like flexibility, softening of like ligaments and muscles and joints and all of this stuff. And I've had friends who are telling me too, like you just, you can feel things sort of loose and it's almost in a way it can be scary because you're feeling maybe less stable because suddenly like your hips are just so much more like loose and stuff like that. What are some things to be aware of in terms of like maybe people who really like to go to yoga or who are doing Pilates or people who are used to doing a lot of like power lifting. And now they're suddenly faced with this like almost hyper flexibility issue.

Like how, how do we deal with that? Yeah. So this is the, and again, this is like a little bit different for everybody because some people already start off hyper mobile. Think about that. And then they're even more hyper mobile. So the goal in pregnancy and postpartum is really to help create stabilization in these people. So I have a lot of conversation around aligning joints and not locking.

Okay. And that's why I don't think it's a good time to try to go for that one rep max. We want to start, like, stabilizing the pelvis so that you have a much easier recovery postpartum because if you're trying to push yourself through that um it's probably not the smartest idea you know you may wind up having an injury during pregnancy that you could have avoided like can you is could you like strain or sprain muscles or pull absolutely ligaments or tendons and things like that. Absolutely. Like, should people be, I've heard that people should kind of be aware and maybe, like, step back a little bit from if you're doing, like, a heavy yoga practice, like, or maybe you just have to adjust the actual.

I think adjust is a better word. Yeah, I think adjust is a better word. So, for example, what happens is because your front body is growing, right, you're pulled into so much extension, you start to stabilize either maybe in your mid- or your quads so some people get knee pain low back pain it's not really like surprising sometimes so i try to especially with my one-on-one clients really focus on helping them find their hamstrings okay and again that exhale to help them bring their ribs back down as much as they can. I hope that describes it a little bit. But I try to work a lot on that.

Because if you are hyper-mobile, we want to think about. Hold on. OK, you keep talking about this. We want to talk about aligning, not locking. Sorry, I'm being distracted. Anyway, keep going. Yeah, I think align is a good word and not lock. Because I think, especially in those rigid type practices, being distracted anyway keep going um yeah i think the line is a good word and not lock because i

think especially in those rigid type practices um and i'm talking about like a uh yang type yoga versus a yin like a like super uh fast flow okay and a maybe a uh a complex kettlebell workout like if you're if you're locking locking locking your joints um but you workout. If you're locking, locking, locking your joints, but you're hypermobile, you're probably doing yourself a disservice. Okay. A big element of what you do is kettlebell stuff, right? Yeah.

You have a big basis in kettlebell work. Is that something that is especially suited for the needs of pregnant women? Or is it just because it's such a great general fitness exercise that you like it? Like, talk to me about that. Yeah, so I really got into kettlebells. I did my strong first after my second one. And then I just went down this kettlebell road.

And I love it. I think it's so functional for everybody. But my mom's, like, for my, for everybody, but my mom's like suitcase carry, deadlift, swinging. Um, I love all of it. Um, you know, grip strength is directly related to shoulder health, right? So I do a lot of farmer carries with my mom's. Yeah. And then think about how messed up your shoulders can get when you're postpartum, bigger breasts, holding the baby. so I do a lot of farmer carries again strengthening the grip you'll have healthy shoulders yes that's a little

nugget interesting yeah I didn't know about that okay um single leg deadlifts all things I mean I just I just really find that you know I do offset carries what if you're carrying the baby and the babies you're so I don't throw a ton of load at my postpartum moms, but I at least teach them how to carry the load properly. Right. So learning how to front rack is super important. What if you're like holding the baby? Like how, how do you, how do you keep yourself neutral? How do you keep your diaphragm over your pelvic floor while loaded on one side, right? And then breathe also and not rib flare. So I don't, I just love the kettlebells because they're very functional. I can put them in certain positions that may mimic the way that the mom's holding the baby or the mom's holding the baby bag and like then picking something up off the floor,

like holding the, maybe you wrap them left side and then you lunge forward to pick something up off the floor like holding the maybe you wrap the left side then you lunge forward to pick something up on the right side so to me I'm sitting here like as if you can see me I'm like moving as if I have a kettlebell in my hand and I'm picking something off yeah but um yeah I find them really they just make a lot of sense they go for lack of a better way hand in hand with the work that I do with my mom. They make a lot of sense, and I'm really passionate about them. Also, a key thing with kettlebells is you can get your heart rate up without your feet, without your feet leaving the ground. So you're not putting any impact necessarily on your pelvic floor as long as you're breathing properly.

It all goes hand in hand. So you have breath, pelvic floor, core. If you're not breathing, then you're not the whole, like, canister is not functioning. But as long as you're breathing properly, you can swing and get your heart rate up, and then you're not putting any impact on your pelvic floor. That's why I love it so much more for my mom. Versus running, skipping, whatever. Yes.

I'm like, oh. And for anybody. I haven't ran unless I'm, like, late for the bus in forever. And it's not because I don't think it's bad for anybody. I haven't ran unless I'm like late for the bus in forever. And it's not because I don't think it's bad for everybody. I just noticed postpartum with my first one, I was running so much, my joints didn't feel great. And when I started using kettlebells, I got stronger and I got leaner and I felt better because I had more muscle mass. So lean muscle mass. Um, so yeah, I, a huge fan of kettlebells. I've had so much success personally

with them, with my own recoveries that I've now, that's, I, a huge fan of kettlebells. I've had so much success personally with them, with my own recoveries that I've now that's all I use with my clients that in a pull-up bar and I'm good to go. Nice. Yeah. I like it. All right. So walk me through, say for example, I'm a couple months pregnant and I come to you and I'm like, I want to start working with you throughout my pregnancy and after my pregnancy. What are the next steps? What do you do? What do you learn from me?

What kind of conversations do we have for you to program what we're going to do together? Yeah. So pregnancy is an interesting thing. You're not always on a strict program, right? Because you can come in the first trimester for some people could be awful. For me, I never had nausea. So it's really like a week to week basis, depending on how your sleep is going. Um, you know how the hormones are affecting your body. So it was a constant, constant conversation. I can have a plan in my head as to what I want to do with you on Monday morning. You may come and be like, you know what, Missy, like I didn't sleep last night. Like,

um, this is what's going on. My body, I've got some low back pain, et cetera, et cetera. So, um, and I also just find out, I get an extensive pre, like, what were you, like, doing before baby? Any injuries? I mean, like, did you get any teeth pulled? Like, a whole extensive questionnaire of, like, what you were doing pre. And then, again, it's just reassessing and adjusting. And, like you said, it's not, like, certain things. If you're, like, so hooked on doing hollow hollow holds it's not like you'll never go back to

doing a hollow hold but let's adjust for now figure out something else that we could do and then go back to it right I'm cool with not doing all of those yeah so everybody's program looks a little bit different but if you came to me honestly the first thing I do with people is I start some breath work to see how you're breathing because I can tell a lot just by doing that and then I walk you through some like basic movements see what your push-up looks like see what your squat looks like um build from there yeah and then I build from there okay cool and so you said that so you're based in New York obviously you hold either well you you have clients come here yep um or you can go to them right so at this point it's

basically people who are pretty local to new york that you can work with what if there's women listening that are like i want to get in on this i'm not in new york what do i do like what do you recommend like what should they look for in a trainer or what are some like other resources or things that they can do to start having something having either a trainer or a program or a plan that's just a little bit more specific and directed to them and their goals if they can't come see you. Right. So there's a lot of really good online resources. Um, I am working on a website that, uh, potentially will have like the ability for people to sign up and download programs right now. I'm just posting the programs on my Instagram. But I think you have to really seek out somebody in your network, in your community, somebody that has a specialty in this. And even if you don't have to work with that person long term, somebody that's really knowledgeable about pelvic floor, the breath, and how that's all connected is critical.

Okay. All right. And where do people find you online and on social media where they can learn a little bit more about what you're doing? Yeah. So, um, at Mosa Paris fitness is my Instagram. And I just started only posting stuff around my program called the fit fourth. And I have an Instagram for that as well. It's called at the fit fourth. Okay. You have a special Instagram for that. Okay. Yeah. Cause I've noticed, like I've been following along on your, on your personal Instagram

account because you post a lot of, like, actual sort of movement, like, videos and stuff that people can learn and try it and stuff at home, which is very cool. I try to do a five-minute video every day. Yeah. Whether it's in my story or whether... So I try to do, like, a quick five-minute giveaway. That's fantastic. And do you have the opportunity, besides being on awesome podcasts like this one, do you

have an opportunity to sort of, of like travel and speak at anything? Is there anything coming up that people can like kind of follow along or are you just kind of like? Yeah, that's the goal. So my younger one is just a year old, and I sort of created this program within the last, you know, eight, nine months. And right now I'm doing it at this space, Neo, and, you know, doing the coach to camera stuff where people can get it on the app

But that's the goal the goal so like speak at more events do more pod do more awesome Podcasts and try to reach as many women as I possibly can that way so neo has an app that can they can access you Yeah, yeah, yes, also like and everything else everything. Okay interesting all right Can you tell me a little bit about that so it's really awesome NeoU is a platform for fitness professionals like myself that have a brand

mine is pre-postnatal I call it my postpartum program the fit fourth so you download at NeoU Fitness and you have the opportunity to right now access all those workouts. I forget how much the price is right now, but right now it's a reduced price for till April, I think. And is it like you'd pay for the Neo U app and have access to all of these things or would you pay individually?

Yes, you have access. Interesting. Okay. So that's, again, like another, just yet another way that people can kind of get access to all this fitness stuff without actually having to leave their house basically, right? Which, when you're pregnant or haven't just had a baby, is actually a good thing. It's amazing. Yeah.

Okay. Do you have any other parting thoughts or words of wisdom for any women who might be listening to this? Like, just last thoughts for us. Yeah, I think just, like, you know, seek out the people in your community and world that make you feel the best that you can. Because you always feel lifted up in whatever your decisions are. And just feel empowered and ask questions. I think the other thing that I has kind of changed my mind about the idea of having a baby because again we're all in this world like type a kind

of like hard charging people and I've always been like super excited about the challenge of like learning a new skill or a new workout or trying something and I've never had a problem with being shitty at something and learning it and being a little in over my head or scared but like willing to do it anyway whether it's power lifting or bodybuilding or crossfit or whatever it is and I kind of have like rearranged again going from thinking like pregnancy is a scary thing that you have to get through to get a baby to now thinking like that's just it's just another kind of badass challenge that you are able to do and like let's kind of like crush it like let's see how good we can.

And not to place any kind of judgments or value on how easy or hard it is for you, but to just be like, this is another challenge. Let's kill it. Let's be the best we can. Exactly it. That's the way to do it. That's exactly it.

All right. Awesome. Melissa, thank you so much for taking the time. I appreciate it. No, thank you. Yeah. Okay. Thanks everybody for listening.

I hope you enjoyed it. Make sure to say hi Yeah. Okay. Thanks everybody for listening. I hope you enjoyed it. Make sure to say hi to Melissa on Instagram at Melissa Paris fitness and give her a follow. She's always posting great content. Follow me at the muscle Maven. I'm also full of great information if I do say so myself. And of course, uh, follow shrug collective at shrug collective. And if you enjoyed the episode, please leave me a nice rating and review on iTunes because it helps the show gain more exposure to the people who could benefit. And last but not least, join me here next week because I'm going to be speaking with a sex

therapist. So once again, spicy, going to be spicy. I'm actually going to put out on social media to have you guys submit some questions so that I can ask some really weird stuff that you guys want answered. So join me next week and have a great day.