Barbell Shrugged - [Peptides] The New Frontier in Performance Enhancement w/ Dr. Ryan Greene, Dr. Andy Glapin, Anders Varner, Doug Larson, and Coach Travis Mash Barbell Shrugged #630

Episode Date: February 23, 2022

Dr. Greene is an osteopathic physician (D.O.) specializing in human performance, sports medicine, nutrition and the most cutting-edge recovery methods available. Dr. Greene’s principal belief is that integration of a constantly collaborative, holistic, evidence-based practice amongst health and wellness practitioners is crucial for an individual’s sustained success.    Dr. Greene serves as principal medical advisor at Monarch Athletic Club in West Hollywood, the first private, sustainable health and wellness facility delivering traditional training services combined with physician directed, evidence-based integrative medical intervention. The facility’s key principles include training, recovery, nutrition, metabolic/genetic optimization, and mind-body enhancement.    Visit Monarch Athletic Club   Dr. Greene also serves as Medical Director of Reset by Therabody. Reset is the revolutionary brainchild of Dr. Jason Wersland, Founder of Theragun, as a space in which an individual may appreciate the many benefits of evidence-based and medically directed therapeutic recovery technologies to reset and recharge Mind, Body and Soul.    Additionally, Dr. Greene currently serves as the corporate medical advisor for The Madera Group, where his focus is not only on offering concierge health and wellness consultations to The Madera Group and its employees, but also as a medical consultant on menu development across the group’s culinary concepts: Toca Madera and Tocaya Organica. Dr. Greene strives to ensure the nutritional soundness of every menu item at each of the group’s venues.   Dr. Greene earned his Master’s of Science (M.S.) in Exercise Physiology, Immunology and Human Nutrition at University of Illinois (Urbana/Champaign). He completed post-graduate medical training at Dartmouth and The Mayo Clinic during which time he collaborated with a wide array of leading medical experts culminating in numerous published research efforts. He is currently a fellow of the world-renowned University of Arizona Center for Integrative Medicine under the direction of Dr. Andrew Weil, MD.   In this Episode of Barbell Shrugged:   Emerging science around peptides Why peptides are beneficial for recovery  Why peptides are a safe tool for recovery Limitations on current research in the emerging science Are peptides right for you?   Connect with our guests:   Dr. Ryan Greene   Dr. Andy Galpin   Anders Varner on Instagram   Doug Larson on Instagram   Coach Travis Mash on Instagram   ————————————————   Diesel Dad Mentorship Application: https://bit.ly/DDMentorshipApp   Diesel Dad Training Programs: http://barbellshrugged.com/dieseldad   Training Programs to Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/34zcGVw   Nutrition Programs to Lose Fat and Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/3eiW8FF   Nutrition and Training Bundles to Save 67%: https://bit.ly/2yaxQxa   Please Support Our Sponsors   Organifi - Save 20% using code: “Shrugged” at organifi.com/shrugged   BiOptimizers Probitotics - Save 10% at bioptimizers.com/shrugged   Garage Gym Equipment and Accessories: https://prxperformance.com/discount/BBS5OFF Save 5% using the coupon code “BBS5OFF”

Shrug family, this week on Barbell Shrug, Dr. Ryan Green comes to the show and we are talking about the emerging science around peptides. Peptides have been on my radar for a couple months now and what's super cool about Barbell Shrugs, I get to send Dr. Andy Galpin a text and say, hey, I want to do a show on peptides. Who is the best in the world at peptides? And he immediately writes back, call Dr. Ryan Green, get it set up, and Galpin joined us on the show today. So we're going to take the deep dive into the emerging science around peptides, some where all the false claims are and why things get a little murky in the marketing, but really informative show. Before

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dot com forward slash shrugged and use the code shrugged during checkout to save 10% and get free shipping today. And friends, let's get into the show. Welcome to Barbell Shrugged. I'm Anders Varner, Doug Larson, Coach Travis Mash, Dr. Andy Galpin is on the show. And today we are hanging out with Dr. Ryan Green from Monarch Athletic Club. He has a couple studios out in San Diego. And today on Barbell Shrugged, we're going to be talking about kind of like one of the hottest, what did I do? Los Angeles. San Diego, sorry. Southern California. West Hollywood.

San Diego, looking for him. West Hollywood, Brentwood, LA. Just go to the warmest place in the country that's so nice and you will find him there. Today on Barbell Shrugged, we're going to be talking about peptides. And pre-show, we're about to hear everything about where you've lived and how you ended up in West Hollywood building this out. Let's hear it. Yeah. So my journey has been circuitous, been all over the place. Grew up in Chicago, went to University of Illinois, did undergrad in kinesiology, exercise science, did a master's in exercise physiology, immunology, and human nutrition.

Found my passion was more the medical space. I really wanted to get into the surgical field, but I really loved the draw of sports medicine, working with high-performing individuals. Went to medical school in Denver. I went to a DO program out there. My mentor was the team physician, orthopedic surgeon for the Broncos and the Rockies

with a group called the Stedman Clinic, Stedman Hawkins. So they do a lot of work. They're kind of like the James Andrews of the West Coast. And he facilitated my journey to Dartmouth for residency, because that's where he trained. And that's how medicine works. It's fairly nepotistic. So I went out there, did my work, and then basically realized that, you know, people such as myself, physicians were stuck in a hospital, stuck in an operating room. And we weren't really delivering health or what I thought health should

be. Because we're getting people for 5-10 minutes saying, you know, this is your issue. Do we need surgery? Do we not? And if you don't, I send you away. If you do, I work with you for a little bit and then eventually send you away. And I really wanted to develop that connection with people to help them live a longer and healthier life. And I was looking at all my colleagues and realized physician life expectancy is like 63, 64. It's stressful. You don't sleep. You don't really do anything that we learn in terms of healthy living. You're kind of like the martyrs that fall on the sword and say, I know all this stuff, but I'm not going to do it. I'm going to tell you to do it. But even then the construct is not designed for someone who comes to the hospital to actually

integrate that information. Basically, by the time you came and saw me, you've missed many steps in a preventative medical treatment course that eventually led you to the hospital, which usually meant some more advanced intervention. So at that point, I had a crisis of conscience, decided I wanted to do something different. So I went to Mayo Clinic, did a clinical research fellowship there for a year. And it was a great experience. But even then I realized academia, no offense, Dr. Galpin is rich with bias. And, you know, I saw it. He forgot he was a professor until like 24 hours ago yeah but i mean i was i was writing grants that were being um basically denied because of bias between reviewers and someone was at cleveland clinic and they saw something coming from baylor clinic i'm like well this isn't really a way to advance science no i know that is never

how it works yeah that's the entire thing i came up with this idea for essentially a one-stop shop, or it was a collaborative approach. But the idea was essentially a place where someone can go and they can have preventive medicine, training, physical therapy, nutrition, and also a sense of community. We can introduce evidence-based interventions. We can collect data, but it doesn't feel like you're going into a clinical or lab setting. You feel like you're going into a higher end health and wellness space. And yeah, so that was a, you know, fortune met opportunity. I had some colleagues out in LA that were thinking about kind of like a subscription based training program.

We combined the ideas of next thing you know, Monarch was born. So while that was being developed, I also did a fellowship in what's called integrative medicine through University of Arizona and a gentleman named Dr. Andrew Weil, who's kind of like the father of nutritional medicines. I wanted to round out my understanding of complementary and alternative therapies, or that's what we call it in the Western world, in the Eastern side of the globe, it's basically just medicine. So I wanted to have a better understanding of if someone came to me and said, how do I integrate acupuncture, Ayurveda, nutritional medicine, Chinese medicine, whatever, instead of saying it doesn't work, or I have no idea, at least I can guide them in a direction that may be helpful,

so that they can have a more robust and complete plan. But through that, I really developed a passion for things that will help with recovery, you know, such as peptides, anything that will expand health span versus just lifespan, because ultimately, our goal with Monarch and my goal as a practitioner is I want people to be able to do what they want to do for as long as they want to do it. I don't really care what it is. But you know, you should be able to live a long and healthy life, looking at Blue Zones and the models that they've developed in terms of their quality of life, which is basically what they do on a daily basis. That was the foundation for what I do, what we do, and for the purposes of today, one of the newer, I guess you could call

it, and exciting interventions is the field of peptides and peptide medicine. And, you know, it's an interesting space. And, you know, on the coasts, a lot of people know relatively, but there's, I think, a lot of folks that can benefit from at least understanding that there are things that you can utilize that are effective, relatively safe, that don't have to be prescribed in a pill or a capsule. As with anything that kind of like becomes hot, peptides are hot right now. And with the number of people that we get to talk to on the show and meet, I immediately, when I hear like the new cool thing, I'm like, come on, there's nothing new and nothing that cool.

Why is peptides, or why are peptides like catching so much steam? So why are peptides catching so much steam? Yeah, I mean, they're not really new. Like we've been using peptide medicine for a while. Like insulin is a peptide, right? So we've been using insulin for a very long time. I think we've just taken the 7,000 or whatever known peptides that the body creates. There's about 60 that are quote-unquote FDA approved for utilization. And now we have folks that are essentially offering, in my opinion, somewhat inaccurately like a fountain of youth opportunity. I think they're very effective supplements, if you want to call it a supplement that can help with recovery, help with body composition, help with potentially hormone production, help reduce inflammation. There's a wide variety of utilization.

But ultimately, it's a tool. And one of the things that I share with everyone is if you don't sleep well, you don't sleep well, you don't eat well, you don't move your body, you don't hydrate, there's no amount of injectables or supplements that's going to correct a poor foundational lifestyle program. So I in no way will leave my conversation with, hey, like, this is the key to curing all your ills. It's very much a comprehensive approach. But like with training, we have tools that we can use to build strength in certain areas of the body. So how do we create a program that can integrate what we have, use it in a safe and effective manner, but ultimately understand like, it's an it's an

additive component, especially for people that may be higher performers, they may have certain stresses in their life where they just need a little bit of support by increasing the body's natural capacity to do what it does. Before we get too far down the rabbit hole, what actually is a peptide? So peptides are basically short chains of amino acids. Some are hormones. Some are secretagogues. Basically, they're stimulating your body to produce more of an intended target. And so the difference between like the peptide space versus what a lot of people, you know,

in the weightlifting performance category using synthetically compounded, not bioidentical like growth hormone, for instance. These peptides have a specific target, ideally, and then when administered, they either, you know, help facilitate an outcome or stimulate your body to do a little bit more work using its own natural components and mechanisms to hopefully achieve at a desired outcome. The nice part is they're made up of amino acids. So if your body doesn't necessarily need them, they can be broken down and used for something else versus synthetically. And they're all synthetically made. Anyone's like these are natural, like they're all created somewhere. So it's synthetic. But a lot of the hormones and

other things that we've been using for the, you know, performance, muscle recovery aspect, they're kind of memetics, they're similar, but they're not exactly the same. And once you put it in your body, it's going to be used somewhere. And that's where you run into the adverse effects of growth hormone utilization and things like that. Because, you know, any medication, no matter what it is, you know, bioidentical or otherwise, like for every positive effect, there's definitely going to be, you know, potential risk for side effects. So people need to understand, like when you're looking at the tools you have available, what are those that have the highest potential benefit, lowest potential risk and having someone

guide you and kind of create a plan that you can execute, but also monitor. I think a lot of people, you know, jump into the performance enhancement space and they're just taking stuff that they get from all over the world or from a buddy. They don't really understand like how should it be used? How should it be monitored? Trug family, some very cool news coming out of Walmart. You didn't expect to hear that. I bet. Ageless male protein was selected as one of the very few products in the entire performance nutrition category. So the entire shelf with all of the supplements, ageless male protein, the zone, the pump, and the shred were chosen to have rollback pricing to begin the new year. What that means is Walmart pretty much never does sales, but they do

these things called rollbacks and they select a very, very few products in each category. Pretty much the ones that they think are going to absolutely crush in the new year and the hot time. And they chose us, which is super, super cool. So 2,200 stores, Walmart nationwide, the Walmart near me, I don't have it. And that's annoying. That means it's a whack Walmart, but the Walmart near you probably has it because we're in over half of them. So you can get over, get to the performance nutrition section in the pharmacy, ageistmail, pro T, zone, pump, and shred. Make sure you get over there. Look for my face on the box pick up some supplements and get your new year kick-started right friends i'm so stoked we have rollback

pricing whoever knew that that was going to be a thing a barbell shrug they just smell protein you just described power lifting yeah that actually leads into the a question that i i really uh you mentioned making the peptides that are bio-identical to each specific person that you're using them with. imagine your clientele is looking to look young for the rest of their life or perform at a specific level, or there's some sort of executive that needs to be thinking at basically peak levels every single day of their lives. How specific are peptides and making them bio-identical to the person that you're meeting? What is that process? How do you actually figure this out? It's not bio-identical to the individual. It's just, it's exactly to the peptide or whatever you're producing. So it's similar to what your body would naturally produce. We are not at the level of precision medicine where we can utilize

like really custom compounded medications that will be optimally integrated you know uh absorbed like anyone who says that we're not there yet but these are as close to what your body naturally produces as you can get that being said they are synthetic like they're created in the lab somewhere um they're not uh they're not like completely natural so the term like bioidentical kind of gets thrown around yeah and i think you used a bit inappropriately but all things considered these are these are peptides that are amino acid sequences that our body produces they've just been recreated and then can be reintroduced into your system for a potential

result yeah think about it like this um vasop vasopressin, oxytocin, insulin, like these are really common examples. Back in the day, we used to actually get, um, insulin from live other animals like canines. And I don't remember what else. Um, so that would call it native or natural. Like it is the exact same insulin you would use bioavailable but it's coming now they just make that synthetically from other non-living species so they're all coming synthetic but some of them are coming in the exact same form you have them and others are being combined and in other ways so that's about the amount of testing you know like um i have a friend who's you know like he's responsible for a lot of the research

that's been done on a lot of the, like, you know, the different types of steroids, growth hormone, IGF-1.

And when I discussed peptides with him a long time ago, he felt there wasn't enough studies being performed on them. Is he wrong?

No. So he's not wrong. So here's, here's the difficult part with, and Dr. Galpin can speak to this in greater detail because he understands as well. When we use evidence-based medicine to guide everything that we do, right? It's absolutely necessary. The tough part is evidence-based medicine. Those studies have to be sponsored by somebody, right? And so with bioidentical

compounds, it doesn't matter with bioidentical compounds, it doesn't matter what it is, estrogen, testosterone, peptides, if your body naturally produces it, it cannot be patented. If it cannot be patented, then it cannot be, you know, sold for a significant profit. And the amount of financial investment in, you know, to do these large randomized control trials is significant. And the overall payoff for something that you really can't have any proprietary value for is not, the juice isn't worth the squeeze. So until something changes, especially on the, on the research side, these large evidence-based randomized control trials probably won't exist. So we're going to have to utilize smaller case-based anecdotal, you know, cohort studies.

And ultimately what practitioners are going to have to do is learn to evaluate them, determine, was it a good study? Was it executed appropriately? Is there any value that we can draw from this? And then, you know, at the practitioner individual level, make some decisions and guidance like, is this appropriate for you based on who you are? Like, what is your past medical history? You know, I have a lot of people who want growth hormone, and they may have a cancer risk or they've, you know, they have something where like introducing something that's going to make tissue grow of any type isn't a reasonable intervention. So you need to steer people away from that. And that's where the practitioner knowledge base needs to grow,

and people need to become a little bit more aware, at least if you're in anti-aging, functional, integrative, preventive medicine, because people are going to ask these questions. And ultimately, right now, the typical response is don't know, don't have enough information, probably no benefit. That's not exactly true. But we need to better educate practitioners, because then what happens is people go and try to figure out where can they get it, you know, you know, behind the scenes, because they've heard about it, someone took it said it was good. That's enough that, you know, behind the scenes because they've heard about it. Someone took it and said it was good. That's enough that, you know, information or that they need. So they're going to try it. And then we run into issues because people are doing things inappropriately. They're getting something from someone or somewhere that's not a reputable source. And then we run into issues.

Right. Yeah. This is exactly why you get in a position that we're in with, I think growth hormone. And if you can flag that against like TB500 and BPC157, that's exactly why they are what they are. So what's going to happen is you're not going to have the funding, exactly like Ryan said, to go to these large trials with things like BPC157. But you have enough funding probably to do a cell culture study, maybe an animal model. And then people see these and those two molecules, TB and BPC, have been around for a long time. People have used them in the performance space for a long time. But yet, a decade has gone by, and there's no human trials.

People are like, why? And this is exactly why. And so does that mean they don't work? Well, maybe not. We could go back and forth. But that's exactly what you're looking at. If you contrast that to growth hormone, it's a completely different set because the applicability was so large that that just just grew out of control and now you can apply that so i think it'd be nice to um maybe center this a little

bit right now on some of the athletic or performance i don't want to say performance enhancing side but those that an athlete or competitive person would use for either increasing advantage or increasing recovery so um like growth hormone right yeah yeah so i think if i'm picking up on what dr galvin is is indicating like what are some of the things what are some of the common ones that have been well studied that can be utilized with relatively good efficacy. Yeah. So, um, I concur like BPC one five, seven TV 500, which is also called thymus and beta sir, moral and IPA moral and CJC 1295. Um, those are the, the big ones, Tessa moral and anything with the suffix M O R E L I N more Ellen. Those have been, been utilized for a lot of different things for a long period of time, and I'll kind of run step by step. So BPC-157 is an interesting one because

it was initially isolated from gastric juice, right? Someone at some point was like, how does your intestine not dissolve every time gastric fluid gets into it? And it turns out our stomach naturally produces this compound that helps with repair of the epithelium, like the intestinal lining. And to be honest, I don't know exactly when it transitioned from orally administered, which we know can help individuals with irritable bowel issues, inflammatory issues of the gut. And in the market today, you can actually get BPC, you don't need a prescription orally administered. But if there's any association with some sort of musculoskeletal performance, you're being a bit misled, because we know that these orally administered components

probably don't leave the gut lining, they're probably not absorbed in any volume that's going to be efficacious for musculoskeletal utilization. That being said, when BPC is administered via injection, we know and we have a large volume of data, relatively speaking, that is very impactful for specifically tendon and ligament repair. So if you have athletes that have tendinopathy, inflammation, they're recovering from an injury that's associated with one of those types of tissues, we see more efficacious healing in shorter time periods because this molecule tends to help facilitate recovery of those specific types of tissue. It doesn't really have an impact on skeletal muscle.

So if you're looking for a recovery advantage, BPC-157 is probably not an area that you want to go down. But if you notice you're having, like I said, laxity, tendinopathy, these recurrent joint ligament or tendon injuries, it's probably a reasonable intervention. The other thing people have to appreciate is these mechanisms and these molecules require multiple months of utilization to really appreciate a benefit. So it's not a week of therapy. We really want to go two to three

months and kind of assess factors that we can, pain, movement, strength, monitoring inflammation or those subjective symptoms, those are kind of the metrics that we're looking at. And we're seeing actually orthopedic surgeons, especially those that are a little bit more progressive, start prescribing these things post-operatively because they understand the efficacy and their impact. So that's kind of BPC 157. So that's a two-pronged approach. Orally administered, great for gut. Peripherally administered, better for ligament and tendon. Hold on. Can I ask a question?

All right. Hold on. We've got questions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like the BP 157, could you like use that, you know,7, could you, like, use that, you know, like one of the big determining factors of speed, you know, if you're talking about a sprinter, is going to be the tendon, you know, quality and strength.

You know, could it be used to, you know, improve that? In terms of tensile strength so they can generate more force. I haven't seen any evidence that has looked at an individual's force or power production utilizing BPC. Dr. Galpin, he's shaking his head, so I suspect there's probably not much out there. This is more for short-term recovery. So for individuals that are coming back from an injury or, you know, a tendonopathy, some sort of inflammatory situation. I don't know of anyone that's investigated as if someone's using BPC 157, are they able to generate more force?

Do they have more tensile strength? Things like that. Contract that out. Plasticity. strength things like that um contract out plasticity you know yeah because you got like dr barr who's done all this you know research on tendons and like you know he's actually doing a pretty good job of putting together like some you know protocols and i'm just curious you know with his protocols in conjunction with that would it you know yeah it'd be it'd be interesting i just don't know of anyone that's that's gone down that

route dr goutman could probably speak i'll go ahead the potential you have here though is you can get um theoretically you could get a faster turnaround time to training and or more volume and that's that's where you're going to see the performance advantage because now you don't have to worry about the knee getting acting up every time you do a b and c or taking three days to recover so with professional athletes that play every certain number of days um it allows them to feel better a lot faster and they can continue to play throw jump run whatever they're going to do more frequently at a higher output so that's that's probably the most direct. What about joint testing?

Yeah, I was going to jump in there. That's why I don't want you to move on. But yeah. 100% not approved for professional athletes. So if you're subject to WADA, USADA, things like that. That's stupid, of course. This is a no-go. The funny part is they just announced that like three weeks ago.

So prior to this, we had full reign, and then they just changed it right at the beginning of the year that said it's now a banned substance. What was the rationale for the change? Same rationale as always. Anytime that they feel like it confers a competitive advantage, and that's the only metric they have to live on. So the indirect answer is if they didn't ban PPC for a long time,

because they didn't have any direct evidence in humans that did very much, the more evidence they get, it works really well. Then they put on the band substance. So it's completely insane that they won't let you take anything from the side of recovery, but they'll let you take anything from the side of recovery, but they'll let you take anything from the side of breakdown. But anyways,

how does that compare to like, uh, like PRP injections or stem cells or anything else that would help potentially? Yeah. I mean, it's, it's basically,

it's basically, you know, I don't want to, it's kind of a large generalization, but you're basically in pep in the peptide space. You're using something your body naturally produces to help facilitate an outcome. Usually it's healing, recovery, something like that. PRP and stem cell, again, you're using something that your body naturally produces.

And this time it's, you know, you're usually, except for stem cells, depending on how you harvest them, you're using your own healing elements and just kind of concentrating and focusing and focusing them in on an area that requires a little bit more attention. And especially for ligament and tendons, since we're in like the BPC space from a medical perspective, we know that those tissues have poor blood flow. So they take longer to heal, which is why utilizing some of these agents is you know, helps speed up

time to recovery. Um, yeah. So to your question, how is it different other than it's not directly pulled from you and then put back into you that it's created somewhere else. Uh, there's not much difference if you're thinking about like the general category of what we're trying to do which is naturally supporting your own healing so like my brother as an example he's had a tennis elbow that's like been really tough for him to shake for like six or eight months now like bbc 157 might be a good option for him potentially yeah absolutely and i mean again and if if you're not in a professional regulated sports space not illegal to utilize um but if you're not in a professional regulated sports space, not illegal to utilize. But if you are monitored for purposes of performance, then yes, I would strongly advise not utilizing these substances.

And to really clarify on that too, Doug, Ryan, can you differentiate something like BPC from taking like testosterone in terms of like safety and consequences? So someone like your brother, like, you know, hey, you don't want to be messing around with these things because you're going to do hormones are hormones, some are just precursors that stimulate your body to produce an intended hormone response. When you take a synthetically created hormone, so testosterone, right? Physiologically, there will be a negative feedback into your own system, basically where your body sense is great. We're getting this hormone from somewhere. We don't really care where it's coming from, but we recognize it's present. We are going to downregulate our own production. So in certain instances, hormone therapy, you know, such as testosterone is indicated. When

people take it on their own and don't truly understand how it impacts their physiology, you need to understand why am I taking it? How long should I be taking it? And what do I need to do when I decide that I'm going to discontinue to ensure that my body picks up the slack and starts engaging its own machinery to reproduce the hormone that was previously administered exogenously from an outside source. Peptides, you know, to date, there's not much literature, if any, where that negative feedback loop exists, because ultimately, what you're doing for the most part with most of these peptides is you're giving your body an extra little stimulus to create more of an intended subject, or it's an intended substance, excuse me, that your body naturally produces. So, you know, most of these, the peptides that are commonly used outside of BPC,

tend to stimulate the production of growth hormone, but it's, you know, not as significant a dose for the most part as if you're using synthetic growth hormone. And most of the synthetic growth hormones, Omnitrope, Nordotropin, Somatropin, anything with tropin at the end, they're not bioidentical. They're similar enough that they'll stimulate a receptor that leads to a response, recovery, repair, things like that. But, you know, in that space, it's also going to impact any tissue that has a growth or repair signal,

musculoskeletal or otherwise. So those things that are similar enough, but not exactly what your body needs, essentially your body has to use it and it's going to use it somewhere. Same things with testosterone. So, I mean, it's not apples to apples, but the big takeaways are when you're using hormones exogenously, there's usually a negative feedback loop, which your body will have to recover from at some point. Peptides, there's really not any evidence that negative feedback exists. So in terms of safety and overall long-term physiologic performance, there's less negative outcomes associated with the peptide use than what we've seen with exogenously administered hormones. So if you have peptides that you can put into a specific joint to help recovery, say in your knee, and your body only needs X percent of what you put

in, there's very little downside to your body then on like a more global level kind of helping recovery. Is it only in that specific localized area or do the extras kind of go and just help healing throughout your body? Like where does – if there's a negative downside, what does it do with the extra stuff? Your body doesn't really like deal with extra things breaks it down. So like, I mean, it's difficult to say no one's done anything where there's like radio labeled, tagged hormone where they put it in and just kind of follow it around your body, which can be done in animal models to figure out like, if I inject something here, where does it really go? We haven't done that in humans yet. I don't know if Dr. Galpin's done any of those studies.

I did back when I was a master's student. It's fascinating. But anyway, I digress. Yeah, so the beauty of the peptide space is there, like I said, chains of amino acids, right? So if your body doesn't need whatever, you know, excess peptide, it can break the element down into its amino acid substrate, and then utilize those amino acids for whatever it wants to do. That being said, if you're going

to use something that stimulates growth hormone secretion, like you do need to be monitored by someone who can look at your white blood cell count, you know, things that we need to ensure that you're not getting some sort of stimulation of, you know, a cancer cell or white blood cell production to produce a lymphoma or something like that. So it's not something where you can just do it and there's no potential downside. Like you didn't need to have some level of monitoring to ensure that there's,

you know, not a, an adverse effect. Yeah. When, if we've talked about one, that's kind of like helping on like the recovery side of things. But if we were to go to the other side and actually enhancing performance, not just because we're recovering and more volume, uh, faster recovery, obviously that's a massive piece of performance, but like how can people kind of take it to the other side and what peptides can we, can we start looking at so that I can become 22 again?

Yeah. So, I mean, it's interesting. So the, I think in terms of performance, like the argument could be made when you recover faster, you can perform better,

right? Because you can get up day after today and perform at a high volume. Like that's kind of how I articulate it with patients is like anabolics is going to make tissue grow because you want to look bigger, right? It's not necessarily associated with performance per se. You'll probably have some gain. Basically what we're trying to do here is allow the body to recover so that you can go out day after day and perform at a high level. That may mean more volume, better performance. So that's a large portion of the peptides. And that's like CJC-1295, impamoralin, sermoralin, tesamoralin, things like that. To your point in terms of,

you know, other areas of performance, there are some peptides that are coming out that can be administered via nasal spray, C-Lank, S-E-L-A-N-K, C-Max, S-E-M-A-X. Those can be administered for neurologic improvement, better focus, cognitive performance. If people have brain fog, if they have inflammation secondary to concussion or some sort of disruption of blood-brain barrier integrity, there's some evidence that those peptides, especially because they're administered intranasally, so they theoretically have better penetration through the venous plexus and into the brain, there is some cognitive performance improvement, reduction in anxiety, mood improvement, things like that.

So those are some of the better known and more frequently utilized components in the peptide space for just general performance that doesn't necessarily have to do with musculoskeletal. If we were to even break those down, I'd love to talk about, obviously, like the CTE and concussion thing is like a massive conversation in all professional sports, even youth sports. Is there any link in specific peptides that you can be taking and handling concussions? Yeah. No, I mean, there's just, there's not enough information, especially on like the CTE space, those like C-Lank, C-Max components,

there is a belief that they have some sort of improvement for ADHD, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, anxiety, memory, you know, some ischemic events. So people recovering from, you know, potentially a stroke, right? There is anecdotal and small case-based evidence that those kinds of peptides can help with those conditions. The tough part with CT and concussions per Dr. Galpin's point earlier is like, technically these things weren't necessarily banned for utilization, but it's one of those components where like, you don't want to be the physician prescribing an athlete something and they get popped and then it comes back on you. So we just haven't utilized them in that space, especially

with current performing athletes, because no one really wants to get into trouble and potentially risk your career. So to your point, is there a area of potential study for, you know, former athletes or people that have recently retired to see if this could be something that helps alleviate some of those issues we know that are associated with chronic head injury? Absolutely. We just haven't done it yet. Partially because a lot of these peptides are relatively recent in terms of their production and utilization. And we just don't have enough evidence. So like, it's not unreasonable. Again, that's kind of where your, you know, physiologist, physician, whoever you're talking to about these things can kind of guide you and indicate, this is what we know, this is where I think it may be

beneficial for you. And here's what we should do. And then you have to figure out the outcome measures you want to look at. But there are things in that space that could be beneficial. So, yeah, those are the two big ones that I see pretty consistently, especially for things outside of the musculoskeletal system, C-max and C-link. How about the mood, depression, anxiety, sigh? There's, yeah, there's... Pushing him to the edge to say something. Yeah, yeah. There's, there's, so there's one that I've had patients request

pretty specifically. I don't have enough anecdotal data. One's called Epitalon, E-P-I-T-A-L-O-N, I believe. That's kind of just like a regenerative molecule. And a lot of folks, when they're thinking better, feeling better, performing better, you know, cognitively, it also has an impact in terms of your central nervous system to improve performance there. Mood tends to improve, right? And so if you're, I think mood is a, is a, an interesting one because it's fairly subjective. So oftentimes when people feel better, they can do what they want. They're performing better,

thinking better. Their mood tends to improve because just subjectively they feel better, but direct association with, you know, mood based depression anxiety issues just nothing that I would you know start my my name on if we were even back this out a little bit what is the intake look like on your side when a new client walks in like how are you kind of breaking down where they're at and and improving their performance yeah so we basically focus on five different areas. So anyone that I work with, just traditional past medical history, because you need to know what someone comes in with, if they have any previous history of cancer, that's something where you got to be a little bit sensitive if you're using something that's

going to help produce or promote growth hormone production. But for the most part, the people that are thinking about this space are generally healthy, but you should do a thorough, you know, past medical history. Beyond that, like I said, initially, if you are not optimizing sleep, and some of these can, you know, theoretically potentially help sleep, like the growth hormones, secretagogues, the hippomoral and things like that. We subjectively people feel like they're sleeping better, they're recovering better, and they're administered at night, because we know that that's when you have the largest expression of IGF-1 growth hormone. So it can be utilized to help optimize an area of your health. But for the most part, the way I look at it is, how are you sleeping? How are you eating? How are

you moving? Hydration is a super important one. And then the last part is metabolic markers. So what's going on inside your body, your blood can't lie. So what's there is there. And if there's areas that we can identify that, you know, need improvement prior to the administration of peptides, I usually start there because ultimately someone doesn't want to be injecting themselves for the next 30 to 50 years. So what are patterns that we can introduce that will help fortify your foundation? And to be honest, I kind of use it as a test, like prove to me you can do the simple stuff, right. And then let's layer on levels of complexity or kind of advanced intervention. Because if you come in,

you're not sleeping, you're not eating well, you're overweight, and you're not exercising, there's no amount of peptides in the world that are going to correct those poor lifestyle components. So I really, before I allow someone to go down that road, that road, at least under my supervision, I want to know that you can do the simple stuff right. And then these components will be even more efficacious because you have a solid foundation. And we're not dealing with stresses and inflammation associated with poor daily lifestyle habits. So that's the area that I start. And I like to follow up with people every three to six months, just to make sure one, they can stick to the program. Two, it's efficacious, at least for getting close to the desired result. And also from a metabolic perspective that we're not seeing any abnormalities start to develop, because if that's occurring, you know, you need to discontinue right away. Yeah. How closely do you work with, uh, on the athlete

side of things like the team training staff or even the trainers in your own gym? Um, and which things are then from the, not diagnosis, but the, the plan that you have put people put together for people, for people for your clients, and then passing that down to your coaching staff to design training programs, nutrition protocols, like how specific is that after your intake, and then designing their protocol? Yeah, so I mean, the beauty of our model is that it's an integrated multidisciplinary space. So we're meeting as a team every week to go through every individual's program. And we keep our membership at each location, 150 to 200 members so that

it's a manageable size with our team. Every member of our staff is educated on all the protocols that each entity may introduce and utilize. They're not going to be experts in there, but we have that free-flowing conversation. So we're constantly educating people on like, you know, this individual is going to be going down this route from medicine here for PT here for training. I'm not an expert in training. I love to work out, but like, I don't necessarily know, you know,

methods of progressive load and energy systems development, but I'm learning, right? And I'm teaching them about what am I looking at from a metabolic side? Why am I using certain peptides? What are the benefits? Because ultimately, I don't see everyone every day. I see people often, but the training team and the physical therapy team is going to be interacting more often. So I want them to be well versed and understand like, hey, I don't necessarily know exactly what peptide would be

best for you. But we've been dealing with this chronic inflammatory injury for a while, you should talk to Dr. Green, peptides may be reasonable, and he can provide more information. So I want people to have like, you know, to use an educational analogy, like a freshman, sophomore level understanding, but then pass it off to the people that are, you know, masters and higher degrees. Yeah, beyond there. So that's kind of how we've made our facility function. And, you know, again, like the beauty of having a smaller population by design is that no one falls through the cracks and someone doesn't get on a protocol.

And before you know it, 12 months have gone by and like we don't really know what's happening and if it's working or not. Yeah. You said an interesting word of medicine in that answer and not even so much your relationship with like someone's PCP that puts them on antidepressants or whatever it is. But when somebody comes in and they have a medical diagnosis and they are, we'll just say antidepressants, are there medicines that people are taking that are actually hindering their body from being able to create peptides and then they're showing up to you? Is it kind of like a systemic thing where it's like, now you're on, your doctor's prescribed X,

and now I need to go through this kind of checklist to seal the leaks that those medicines have caused? Yeah, I think the most common thing that I encounter is like the anti-inflammatory movement is like, it's robust, right? So I did a podcast recently where we were just talking about like why everyone's on this drive to eliminate inflammation, right? And a lot of peptides can help with that. The thymus and TB 500, like we mentioned before, thymus and alpha is another one that's been well studied for its anti-inflammatory effects, immune system support. But we just get people that come in and they're chronically taking anti-inflammatories or things that are analgesic so they don't feel pain right like we need stress we need inflammation we just

want it in a small volume and not for a long period of time but we've essentially inhibited for a lot of people the recovery mechanisms that are designed through these, you know, pathways, inflammation is part of it. And so we never like really get to full recovery, because we're introducing things that have a specific effect, but then there's also potential side effects that may increase inflammation elsewhere. So we create this cascade in this cycle that a lot of us never get out of. And ultimately, like, you know, I said previously, for every, you know, positive impact of a medication, there could be two, three or more negative impacts. And then we get folks that are in this loop that they can never seem to get out

of. So the biggest one where I work with individuals is understanding like, you know, for depression and mood, it's a little bit more complicated, because we just don't have the evidence, especially with the peptide space, you know, from inflammation, tissue recovery, muscle recovery, like, you know, I often have to peel people back from frequency of use, especially in those types of medications, because, um, like, I don't think they really know how their body's feeling and they're definitely not doing anything to help them recover by stopping this inflammatory cascade. So, um, that's, that's probably the biggest one where I have to peel people back. And for the most part, like, you know, the crazy thing is anti-inflammatories are over the counter, right? So you can take them as much as you want,

as long as you want, no one's going to monitor you. Like there's, there's probably something to be said about those behaviors as well that we can better educate patients on. Yeah, I think that, I mean, we run into kind of issues of the same sort where it's like people are just taking melatonin or they're just taking whatever it is, assuming it's over the counter. So more has got to be better and I'm sleeping on a rock. It's really hard to get past that conversation many times because the over-the-counter thing seems like things shouldn't be a problem. They're just at the grocery store, just right in a different section. You mentioned sleep at the very beginning of this thing and kind of like the big rocks that that start to move the needle forward before

they're actually able to sit down and go through the full testing protocol with you? Do you guys have like a system that you're running before they sit down with you to do all the big testing? So essentially, like how it would go if someone was to come through our system is they're going to meet with me we do a comprehensive lifestyle in a evaluation that includes the medical components i've mentioned previously we put them through a physical therapy designed movement evaluation so we know how you move and then a strength and conditioning assessment. So we know your capacity strength, how you move in various different plans, push, pull. Once we have all that information and I sit down with the individual again,

I'm like, all right, here's what we have. Here's where you want to go. These are the things that I think we need to do to get you there from a lifestyle component. And then this is what your body was telling me. This is what we got from your lab data based on your goals goals, what you're coming in with, that's when we introduce interventions that we think are reasonable, may include peptides, may not, may include hormones, may not. And ultimately, we then give people basically two to three months to try to implement and execute.

And we're touching base every two to three weeks just to see how people are doing because we don't want someone to disappear. We don't want someone to get discouraged. So initially it's a little bit more handholding on the front end, but again, with a, with a smaller cohort and, you know, a multidisciplinary team, we have 16 staff members right now. And, you know, we basically, it's a 10 to one ratio. So we have a pretty good level of oversight. But the beauty is we also can execute any plan,

we can introduce almost any tool because we have physician, we have physical therapy, strength and conditioning, nutrition. So yeah, like I in no way lead with like, hey, you're coming here, like, yeah, times are the way to go. Like it needs to be a conversation. Cause the other thing too, is it's not an insignificant cost. Like I don't like to talk about money in medicine, but they're not, it's not an insignificant monthly investment. So I want to make sure that we're doing the best for the most by setting someone up for success versus like, cause the other thing with patients too, is that they try something like, say they're going to come to your facility and work out, you're like, this program is going to work, you know, it's going to work. And but for whatever reason, it may have been, you know, something about the program, but usually it's something outside of the space, what they do when

they're not in your facility. They try your program, they're like, I did it for three months didn't work. I'm never going to revisit that again. Like that's not what we want to do. We want to keep that conversation flowing. So using your knowledge as a practitioner in whatever field you're in to try to set someone up for success is super important, especially in the peptide space. Cause like I said, they're not magical supplements. That's like, yeah. Yeah. I can totally see that. It's kind of like a, you put somebody on a really good nutrition and sleep plan, and it's like, when does it happen? It's like, well, you cut your coffee intake by two-thirds. Yeah, right. how fast you're recovering is a very hard thing when people are kind of like looking for like the quick hit. It's like, okay, I did it. Am I better? Can I go play? Well, this is a three month long game.

We're building into. Yeah. And that's, that's just the truth of the matter. So we, you know, from our side, we need to set reasonable expectations. We need, and that's where data comes in, right? Like Dr. Galpin is a leader in the sports science physiology space and everything that they're doing is data driven. We just don't have a lot of mechanisms, especially on the medical side to other than like measuring CRP to say, hey, like before you started taking BPC 157, your CRP was three. We know one and less is optimal.

Now it's point eight, like, that's a metric that's helpful. But you also have to pair the objective with the subjective. And if someone's like, you know, for the example of the tennis elbow, like, if someone's like, my inflammation is not completely gone, there's, it wasn't worth the investment, we could be like, well, is it 80% better? You know, how long have you been dealing with this? If it's been years, it's probably unreasonable to think this intervention is going to completely eradicate everything you've been dealing with within a month, two months, maybe even three months. So yeah, you know, some of these data driven objectives we don't have yet, but we're developing. And ultimately, it will help amplify what we're

trying to do, especially in the peptideide space because then people can see the forest through the trees and understand where they were where they're going and have a you know a timeline chronologically where they can understand am i continuing to make improvement is it decreasing um so yeah that's what we're trying to do yeah what what does the the legal landscape look like here? Are some completely illegal? Are some prescription only? You got to go to your doctor? Are some totally over the counter? You can just order them on Amazon? What's the range look like? Yeah, so that's an interesting question. So thank you for asking. So there are pharmacies that sterilely compound these substances. And it almost seems like on a day to day basis, the FDA may come in and be like, nope, can't do this anymore.

So if you find, you know, Dr. Craig Conover uses a group out of Georgia, it's called Peptide Sciences. They're pretty reasonable. TaylorMade used to be one in Kentucky that you could use to get a lot of these peptides. You would need them prescribed by a physician. So you couldn't just call them up and get the injectables. Some of the orals anyone can get. But it's kind of going down a rabbit hole, but it seems like there is a vendetta against these therapies that can be naturally helpful. So, like I said, it seems like on a day-to-day basis, things become no longer available or, you know, they can't be sent to certain states based on Board of Pharmacy regulations. So that's part A. The other part is there are some facilities that are producing these peptides. And basically they state, you know, this is for laboratory use only,

not intended for human consumption. It's high quality, it's, you know, quality tested. But you basically, if you get it, whether it's you as an individual or the practitioner is signing off, acknowledging that this was not intended for human use and there's potential risk there. You could probably use it in subjects, but you're jumping through some hoops that may come back and bite you if you have a negative outcome. So if I was an individual, I'd find a provider that has the ability to order sterile compounded peptides from an FDA approved pharmacy. That's where I would start.

If you find something online that you don't need a physician's license to acquire, you're taking a risk, man. You're taking a risk. So I mean, yeah, we like that. Sometimes people order these things from the same distributors that Dr. Galpin gets his lab testing supplies from. Um, so they're probably high quality, but again, like legally it's definitely an area I personally wouldn't want to jump into. Does that answer your question? Yeah, it does. Um, where, uh, kind of, do you see this field going i feel like uh you've said it's been around for

a long time it feels like it just started catching like it started to pop up on my radar um as like the the miracle cure i'm glad you're saying it's a three to four month long process that people need to like dive into the the long long game here. But if you were to kind of project out on kind of the more fringe things that are going on in your brain of like where you guys can, where you can push the conversation, where is this going?

Yeah, so I think for the first part of your question, the science has been around for a long time, but in terms of like the performance optimization, anti-aging longevity, that's relatively recent. So the good news is, is we've been doing this for a while. The area we need to improve is how is this going to impact individuals moving forward? I would love to see the utilization of these substances to help reduce reliance on medication, to help people maintain a high level of physical activity. Because ultimately, like one of the biggest issues as we age and the health outcomes,

the negative health outcomes that are associated comes from pain, poor recovery, and ultimately sedentary lifestyle, right? So if we can introduce something that can help, you know, the body recover, especially with the various stresses that we have, like I would love everyone to get eight hours of sleep. I'd love everyone to hit, you know, 30 to 40 minutes of moderate intensity movement a day. The truth of the matter is some of the things we can control,

some of the things we can't. But if we can introduce something such as a peptide to help someone recover or get better sleep so that they can get up and attack each day versus relying on Tylenol, ibuprofen, things like that. That's an area that I'd love more people to have access to these types of therapies because ultimately, if you're living a longer, healthier life with fewer chronic diseases, the overall cost of investment will definitely be less significant than what you're paying for, you know, chronic disease care. Does that make sense? So that's part A. Part B,

you know, from a practitioner perspective, I would love to see better education for medical practitioners, surgeons, and otherwise, so that they understand how can these be utilized effectively, so that people, like I said, are less reliant on pharmaceutical medications. And we're seeing it in orthopedic surgeons, sports medicine, things like that. They're starting to utilize these peptides as post-operative protocols that people can use because they know it's going to improve the rate of healing, efficacy of healing. And also for the surgeon, their outcomes are going to be better because to date, surgeons are still basically graded based on outcomes. So how long does it take to heal?

Are there any, you know, how well is your pain controlled? Things like that. So if we can introduce these things in areas that we know they're going to be effective and get that a little bit more widespread, I think we'll have better overall health outcomes and ultimately drive down costs across the board. So that's kind of where my mind's at. I would love to see also mechanisms of delivery that are efficacious, but not injectable. So like there's some sprays that are coming out that are effective. Conover has some transdermal patches that, that seem pretty reasonable. Cause ultimately like when you're dealing with the gut and digestion, like any oral capsule, and that's the issue with the nutraceutical space is like, I can hypothetically state anything is going to do anything, but what gets into my system after I

pop it into my mouth is absolutely a crapshoot. So if we could introduce ways, because a lot of people don't want to inject themselves. And I totally understand that. And if we can do some other route of delivery, that's efficacious and not necessarily injectable. I think that's worth evaluation as well. As soon as there's a shot involved, I feel like I totally broke the law. There's no... Remember, because these peptides can be broken down so quickly and effectively, these are typically not like

testosterone or other things where you can take a shot every two weeks. These are daily shots. It's like taking insulin for a type 1 diabetic. You're going to take a needle in you every day. It's not for most people. Yeah. So they have patches available already for things like BPC one five seven, or again,

my brother could just like slap it on his elbow and he's, he's good to go. Yeah. I, uh, I need to look to see if the BPC five, BBC one five seven is available, but there's definitely, um, uh, patches that have combinations of the growth hormone secretogog, some thymus and components for anti-inflammatory. They're not inexpensive. They're like a hundred bucks a patch. They last for 12 hours. And like, again, if you're going to be doing this for two to three months, like it is not an inexpensive mode. And so if I have someone who's like, I'm not taking a shot, right? Like it's

fair. Let me explain to you, you know, the cost impact between going this different route. And usually I can educate and coach someone to figure out how to overcome their fear of needles. Uh, and you know, magically cost also plays a factor. So yeah. To contrast that, I'd imagine insurance imagine not covering this either no no i would think so the shot approach is probably more like i don't know ryan 10 bucks a day or something like that relative to the other one so it is a significantly cheaper option to just put an iv or is it is it subcutaneous or is it intramuscular? It depends. It depends on what peptide you're using.

Most of them are subcutaneous. It's literally the needles. A prick. 5-16th of an inch. I've heard. I've heard. For sure.

Are there any peptides that you either have gone away from that you used to use that you just don't like anymore or ones that people talk about that love that you don't actually like as much? Are there any ones that you're not a psych? Cermoralin is one that I used a lot in the past. It's a growth hormone secretagogue, so it can help basically stimulate the production of growth hormone, IGF, things like that. I have found that people, especially with surmoralin, so basically if you're producing growth hormone, IGF, your insulin sensitivity should improve, right? Because you're pulling calories or energy into a cell to help with repair. Anytime you're using anything that manipulates growth hormone output, there tends to be oftentimes volatility in blood sugar. The reason that most people do this right before you go to bed is because one, it helps you sleep. And two, when you're in deep sleep, you don't really think about hunger, right? Unless your blood sugar really, really drops. I found with Sermoralin two things.

One, people had blood sugar volatility, and especially if they're trying to recover. And a lot of times, you know, the growth hormone secretion helps with fat loss as well. They would end up eating like 2000 calories of food at like 10pm because their blood sugar dropped. And they're like, I cannot go to bed unless I eat something. And ultimately, we had the paradoxical effect of they weren't sleeping better, and they put on 15 pounds. So that's part A. And part B is there's some literature that indicates like stromorilin and some of the older of that class, you can actually develop kind of resistance to it. So you don't really see its same impact long term as you would with what I tend to use now, which is CJC 1295 hipomorelin. It's actually two peptides synergistically acting together. One's shorter term, one's longer term. Most people who utilize that have no issue with blood sugar. They respond well, they improve their recovery times, capacity improves. So sermorelin is probably the biggest one that I've moved away from. All the others, I haven't really had any negative outcomes.

With any peptide or injectable, some people get a little bit of flushing, especially after they administer it, so their face gets hot. Sometimes they start to feel ringing in their ears, and that freaks them out, but that usually goes away in five minutes, five to ten minutes. Then after they experience it once, inevitably they'll call me. I'll walk them back off the ledge. It's never an issue. But, um, the biggest one, like I said, is the Stramorlin because of the blood sugar

volatility. Would that be an advance for people that are actually trying to aggressively put on muscle mass or body weight? No, I would, uh, it's, yeah, it's, it's one of those things where people tend to physiologically speaking, it's just not the way to do it. Right. If you're trying to gain weight, like I would rather have you eat an appropriate amount of calories, you know, whatever you want to do with your macros when you're supposed to be eating, like during the day versus 30 minutes before you go to bed. Also to most people start to choose things that are not nutritionally dense.

They're choosing stuff that they know is going to help them feel better. So it's potato chips. It's, you know, snacks and sweets. Yeah. So I wouldn't, I would not associate a bulking phase with sremoro in use or something like that. Yeah. And two, it doesn't happen all the time. So it's not something where every time you do it,

it happens. It's, it's intermittent, but when it does happen, it can be problematic. Where can people find more? So you can find me at our website for Monarch, Monarch Miho, M-O-N-A-R-C-H-W-E-H-O.com.

My Instagram is doctor underscore green with an E at the end, underscore D O. And then our, uh, Monarch Instagram is just at Monarch WeHo. Do you do remote consulting or? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I'll give you guys, you know, you, if you have any questions, reach out to me via DM. Uh, I'll follow up with with you but we can do some telemedicine and virtual stuff as well beautiful if someone wants to work with you do they um could they do a thing where like they fly out once once a quarter or something meet with you then go back if they're somewhere else absolutely yeah 100 beautiful eddie galpin if you guys want to learn more about this is actually um a recent paper.

I pulled up the exact title for it. Therapeutic Peptides and the Historical Perspectives, Current Developmental Trends and Future Directions. So a paper published just a couple of years ago. If you want to read it, it breaks down all the categories, what they are, use, and things like that. So that's up there. I knew I had read that paper recently, so I dug up the title.

Say it again, will you? Yeah. Therapeutic Peptides, Historical Perspectives, Current Developmental Trends, and Future Directions. First author, Lau, L-A-U, and that's in the Bioorganic and Medicinal Chemistry Journal, 2018. I wish I had found that one researching for the show instead of like Healthline, WebMD.

We got to get those reports higher in the SEO search engine there. Let's choose PubMed, not Google. That'll help you. Where can we find you, Dr. Andy Galpin? Instagram and Twitter, Dr. Andy Galpin. There it is. Travis Mash. Mashley.com. I'm looking at the article. There it is. Travis Mash. Mashley.

I'm looking at the article. Yeah, right now. Anyway, mashley.com. Instagram, Mashley Performance. It's open access, too, I think. It is. It is open access. It's open access, so you can go read it.

Doug Larson. Doug C. Larson on Instagram. I'm Anders Varner at Anders Varner. We are barbell shrug to barbell underscore shrug. Make sure you get over to DieselDadMentorship.com where all the busy dads are getting strong, lean and athletic, and make sure you get to your local Walmart, 2,200 stores nationwide.

So if you go in the store and you go to the performance nutrition section, and you do not see my face on three products in the supplement section, that means you're in the wackest Walmart in the whole wide world. And you need to go to the one down the street because we're in over half of them. So if you're at one and you don't see me go to the one next door they're probably really close to each other and that's where you'll find my face three products on the shelf friends we'll see you guys

next week