Barbell Shrugged - Physiology Friday: [Caloric Ranges] How to Eat More Food Without Gaining Weight w/ Zach Moore, Anders Varner, Doug Larson, and Travis Mash

Episode Date: June 13, 2025

Zach Moore is a highly sought after nutrition and exercise coach who has personally coached over 1000 clients. His clientele have ranged from top level professional athletes and physique competitors to health enthusiasts of all ages. Moore has worked with some of the most well known companies in the industry including Precision Nutrition, Nourish Balance Thrive, Indianapolis Fitness and Sports Training (named one of the top 10 gyms in the U.S. by Men’s and Women's Health magazines for multiple years), and consulted with several others. He is currently the Nutrition specialist for our team here at Rapid Health Optimization. He graduated summa cum laude from Indiana University with his Bachelor's and Master's Degrees, and holds a host of certifications in training and nutrition - Precision Nutrition level 1 and level 2 certifications, Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist (CSCS) through the National Strength and Conditioning Association (NSCA), a coaching certification through USA Weightlifting (USAW), and more. His past athletic background includes playing college tennis for two years before succumbing to two knee surgeries, which ultimately led him to what he is doing today. When he is not working with our clients at Rapid, you can find him playing with his 8 year old son, taking care of his backyard chickens, reading research, playing tennis, or lifting weights. Work With Us: Arétē by RAPID Health Optimization Links: Zach Moore on Instagram Anders Varner on Instagram Doug Larson on Instagram Coach Travis Mash on Instagram  

Shrug Family this week on Barbell Shrug, Physiology Friday is back, and our in-house nutritionist, Zach Moore, is coming on the show today. We're gonna be talking about how you can make caloric ranges and still be able to eat as much as you want without gaining weight. That's like the key to happiness, right?

Being able to fill your body up as much as you can with delicious food and nutrients, and still not put on body fat. And Zach is going to dive into what these caloric ranges are, why they are important, how resilient your body is, and why it's important to be able to get as many calories as possible without having the negative side effects that many people have that comes along

with just increasing your body fat. As always friends, make sure you get over to rapidhealthreport.com. That's where Dan Garner and Dr. Andy Galpin are doing a free lab lifestyle and performance analysis. You can access that free report over at rapidhealthreport.com. Friends, let's get into the show.

Welcome to Barbell Shrugged. I'm Anders Warner, Doug Larson, Coach Travis Mash. It's a day on Barbell Shrugged. Our main man, the nutritionist, Zach Moore from Rapid Health Optimization. Dude, I'm fired up to have you on here today. Yeah, it's great to be here. I've been listening to you guys.

Goodness, I don't know how long, but a long time. At least like almost a year in meetings. Sometimes I'm like, man, why do all the coaches and everybody listen to this show? They should be sick of hearing from us. But it's great. Well, I think Doug and I talked a long time ago, but I think I got started around the same similar time to when you guys did.

Like when I became a strength coach was, I don't know, like 2012, 2014 sometimes, and that was like G days. That was like Masha's first show. Yeah. Yeah. Down in Miami, Masha's out partying and drinking whiskey on the show. That was my favorite podcast today. Good days. We gotta do some more in-person shows.

Yo, Mash, if you rewind, if you roll back the time hop on, Mash says that episode down in Miami, you have enough whiskey in your system to talk smack to the entire weightlifting and power of the community. You're like I'm in Miami, I'm on barbell shrug, a little bit of sauce is going into my body right now and I'm about to just lay it down for ever.

I'm gonna tell the truth, here's how I really feel. That was like 2012 wasn't it? I am dominant, yeah, exactly. All right. 2014 is probably something like that. Yeah. That's too good. I know. I just told the truth.

That's all I did. I just told the truth. Yeah. Remove or rather didn't post a handful of shows because of the drinking. We were like, I don't know, let's rein it back in a little bit. Let's operate the alcohol in this. People are listening. On this health podcast.

But I mean, but this was like, you know, this was like, it wasn't too much, it was just enough to get me honest. It was like, it was, you know, we were- Was that a time in life, there was like a time in life where you were like, this is a really good idea, and you go, what would make it better? Maybe a little bit of drinking.

And then you realize, that makes it so much worse. And then you have to stop all the drinking stuff. I thought you meant great. Got told the same. I just told the truth. It was just a little, you know, like everything in moderation. I love that. People still refer to that house

as the Miami Coke Mansion in regular conversations. We put like five people on that house. That house was enormous on Miami Beach. It was so much fun though. It was so, so much fun. Good. Zach, that's when you started listening to Barbell Shrugged, the behind the scenes here.

Yo, let's roll into adaptive metabolism. You brought this up pre-show and I'd love kind of understanding your definition of that, knowing that many of the people think that they just are born with a metabolism and they're stuck with it forever. But take it away, man. Yeah. So it's just something that, you know, a lot of clients that come into rapid, you know,

they feel, you know, pretty good, but, you know, they just have some issues like their performances went down, like, you know, maybe hormonal profile is not great. And one goal I have for a lot of clients, you know, we hear a lot about like, too many people are overeating, you know, like we need to cut back. But for a lot of rapid clients, like I try to get them to eat as much food as they can, while still kind of maintaining their weight if that's their goal. Because the idea is right, we all have this range of calories that we can maintain our weight on.

And because it doesn't make sense, right? If I don't consume exactly 2327 calories, like I'm going to gain weight or lose weight. So we all kind of have this range of calories that's possible, our body fights to stay the same. And so some people have a metabolism where you it's very adaptive in that you can they can actually eat quite a bit higher calories and not gain weight. Like naturally what happens is when you eat a little bit more, like you have different processes that happen in your body, like body temperature will go up a little bit, heart

rate will increase a little bit. You'll start fidgeting a little bit more. These adaptive people will typically. Also too, like you'll start fueling other processes in your body that may have been lacking energy before. So for example, you know, if you have been under eating for quite some time or kind of eating on the low end of your calories, it's very possible that like your body, you know, takes away energy from testosterone production or heat production in your body or your gastric emptying actually can slow down like if you're on the low end So all of these things in your body like the required energy It's possible that your body is down regulating those are kind of slowing them

To kind of just keep you where you're at So my goal for a lot of people is you know, if they're a pretty good body composition Let's get as much fuel into you as possible. So you're feeling good, you're revving on all engines. Like we see hormonal profile increasing, like body temperature going up. And a lot of people think of this as like, you've probably heard of metabolic damage.

Oh my gosh, if you under eat, you're gonna break your metabolism. It's not damage, it's normal process that happens as we lower our calories, right? Because our body doesn't want to starve. So that's kind of a maybe a starting point. Yeah, when I find myself call it like gaining weight, whether it's intentional or unintentional, I always notice that it's actually it's not like a oh I gained a pound today and then a pound tomorrow it's like I'm eating as much as I want and I feel amazing like I'm eating high amounts of food

and I feel so good about myself because the scale doesn't really move like at all your body's just like fine-tuned it's like humming you're burning all the calories. And then one day I wake up, I'm like three or four pounds heavier. And I'm like, oh, I crossed the line. I went to the bar. And then I think people also on the other side, when they're trying to lean out, they don't realize that it's the compounding of eating less versus like today I ate less. And the scale might go down like, you know, half a pound or something like that. Just pure food volume not being in your body. But it really isn't until you stack like two weeks of those habits on top of each other that you see like, oh, I lost three pounds this week. I feel great. Like this is awesome. But the consistency of it because your body what what do you see kind of in like the, the higher ranges,

like everybody kind of probably has an understanding of like body weight times 10 to get their basal metabolic rate and activity level on top of that. What do you see kind of those ranges being of like a healthy caloric intake to stay inside of versus worrying about hitting like the exact number. Yeah. So it can vary a lot person to person. I mean, I typically say like, you know, for fat loss, somewhere between like nine to 12 calories per pound of body weight, you know, something like that, you know, maintenance can be somewhere between 12 to 16. And then to gain weight, you know, somewhere between 16. I mean, I've seen upwards of like 24 calories per pound, which is ridiculous. I mean, that's super high output, but that's usually a rough starting point.

But I've seen extreme outliers, like especially in this adaptive framework, like natural bodybuilders are kind of a good because they track everything, right? They're so meticulous with everything. And there's some extreme examples out there. Like I don't know if you guys are familiar like eric helms like this guy he can i think he maintains his weight somewhere between like 26 to 2800 you know something like that to lose weight he has to lower his calories like i think he's like around 1400 oh like now you lose weight sounds like breakfast minnow h Henselman's is another example as super adaptive like he can get up to like 3,500 you know and maintain but to lose weight it's like, you know something crazy

So that's what I'm talking about with these ranges can really vary and if you're always on that kind of that lower end Like I said, you're just not gonna feel your best Like you said Andrews you can go beyond that and then you start gaining weight. So that's where you have to be careful. But you know, it's a very slow process of just if things are humming along, if you're feeling good, like I want people to move more, giving them more fuel. Like when you're just tend to move less, you know, performances down, you may feel okay. Like you're getting through the day, you know, you're doing your walks.

Like you just don't have the intensity in the gym, you don't have like the go. And so I just find like, fueling someone, it's just so common, especially in our athletes, like just under eating when they could be performing better recovery better. Yeah, Dr. Andy Galpin here. As a listener of the show, you've probably heard us talking about the RTA program, which we're all incredibly proud of. It's a culmination of everything Dan Garner and I have learned over more than two decades of working with some of the world's most elite performers, award-winning athletes, billionaires, musicians, executives, and frankly anyone who just wanted to be at

their absolute best. Arrete is not a normal coaching program. It's not just macros and a workout plan. It's not physique transformation and pre and post pictures. Arate is something completely different. Arate is incredibly comprehensive and designed to uncover your unique molecular signature, find your performance anchors, and solve them permanently. You'll be working with not one person but rather a full team of elite professionals, each with their own special expertise, to maximize precision, accuracy, and effectiveness

of your analysis and optimization plan. Arate isn't about treating symptoms or quick fixes. It's about unlocking your full potential and looking, feeling, and performing at your absolute best, physically and mentally, when the stakes are the highest. To learn more visit aretelab.com that's a-r-e-t-e lab.com. Now back to the show. I met a guy this weekend I was buying a new we got a masquerade ball this weekend sounds cool but so I'm getting yeah I'm getting all dressed up So I'm getting a suit the tailor there was saying that he was on a he's doing intermittent fasting But he's literally going 24 hours and then he gets like a two or three hour

We can do eat whatever he wants then 24 hours then two to three 24 And I just didn't have it in me to be like man. I mean like I mean yeah, you could do that But like you're not going to possible. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you're going to lose weight, but you're not going to unite. You're you're not going to have the fuel to like, to fuel those processes you were talking about that the body needs are like to have the energy to be able to, you know, be with your wife later that night. And you know, like, there's, it's there's just better ways. But that's actually I's, there's just better ways, man. But that's

actually, I mean, there's something called the warrior diet, which is kind of that framework of like, eat in a four hour window, you know, stuff like that. And Oh, mad is becoming popular this one meal a day. And what I usually find with that is, yeah, people just, they feel pretty good during the day, but they're not doing much. Maybe they're just like, you know, kind of like thinking, so it can work for some people, but people want to feel their best through the day, but they're not doing much. Maybe they're just like, you know, kind of like thinking. So it can work for some people, but people want to feel their best through the day

and just like get after it. Like you're just working. Also digestively, it's very hard to consume a large meal or a large bowl of some food at one time. So I think there are definitely negatives to that. Well, yeah, I think there's a ton of anything extreme like that. I think, you

know, the intermittent fasting can work just like anything else. And like most of the research would say, like, but it's just, there's big windows like that are crazy. It's like, plus then you get the bounce back. That can be pretty, you know, pretty hard on people, but just do it in moderation. Yeah. Yeah. You may have heard the term like low energy availability. And a lot of people talk about that like in a given, like, you know, over a period of time, it can actually happen across the day. So like not just in a 24 hour period,

but like if you are not fueling your body at appropriate times throughout the day. And again, I'm talking more about, you know, kind of athletes or, you know, people training things like that, then you can actually have, you know kind of athletes or you know people training things like that then you can actually have you know issues of low energy availability by not fueling yourself around workouts or like during time or moments. I'm always you know always want to consider myself an athlete until I'm done you know like so I want to be able to you know feel good want to be able to, you know, feel good and to be able to, you know, respond

to people in a proper manner and like, you know, I know when I'm not eating, you know, well, like a lot of things are off, you know, how I communicate is off, you know, how I feel when I get home at night with my kids and my wife, it's off. And so there's just so many better ways to do it. Don't do 24 hour fasting. Yeah. I would. And one thing, I mean, like you said, I'm not against time restricted feeding, but one thing, a big reason why people do it is they feel more satiated, right?

On bigger, less frequent meals. But I've worked with people who do that. And eventually that stops working. Like in that you get used to those really big meals and so then to go out and just have like a normal meal like is not satiating to you. Because one mechanism of satiety in our body is like our stretch in our stomach.

Like that's one signal to our body that like we've had a good amount of food, you know, we're done eating. And over time, like intermittent fasting, again, I'm not against it at all. I think it's just something to be aware of. If you go into it and you're like, wow, this allows me to eat so much less.

I get to eat these huge meals. Those huge meals aren't as satisfying, you know, after you kind of get used to it. And I find those people have a hard time going back to just the, you know, more regular meal spacing. Um, well, yeah. Well, even the, in the long-term research with intermittent fasting, it's the smaller, you know, having like the, the smaller windows of fasting tends to work long-term.

It's just another way of limiting calories though. You know, it's definitely, I feel like the only way you're ever going to optimize things is doing like kind of what you guys do is find out what your body needs and like, but like if you're just trying to lose weight, intermittent fasting can work and it can work for a long time. But it appears in this very, you know, much smaller fasting windows. You don't have to do the extreme ones and you know, all you're doing is just finding ways to cut calories just like anything else but if you do one meal a day yeah easy to cut your calories down to a a an amount that where you would lose body weight slash body fat and potentially muscle mass as well but how difficult is then to get enough protein if you're only eating one meal a day you're going to smash it would be impossible yeah it would be very challenging to get that much protein in. And most of the research does point to it's ideal to get, you know, at least two to three

feedings ideally, you know, just, there's a process called muscle protein synthesis. And you know, that needs kind of a protein feeding to, you know, to stimulate that process. So typically with clients I'm working with at a minimum, I like to see, you know, two protein feedings at least. And then, you know, for athletes or people who are looking to gain muscle, you know, ideally three to four, you know, protein feedings a day. You said much of this already, but say I have a an 800 calorie window where my body weight doesn't change between, you know, 1600 calories and 2400 calories, I can eat that every day, 600 calories every day, my body weight stays the same 2400 calories every day, my body weight essentially stays the same. Short and long term, like what are the pros and cons of just sticking around the 1600 mark in this example versus sticking around the 2400 mark in this example on a daily basis? Yeah, so like I was saying, there's something called,

I think it's called the triage theory, where again, our body sends signals or energy to what's most important. So, typically if we're on that low end of maintenance, it's very possible, like I said, that maybe the thyroid output goes down a little bit, or you start just being a little bit Cooler like you're not as you know warm your heart rate may go down a little bit like you're you're how?

Quickly food moves through your digestive system could slow down a little bit, you know, we always hear like it's oh It's so awesome to have like this slow heart rate Like it's a good sign that you're an athlete, things like that. Well, people who under eat, and again, I'm talking more extreme, like long periods of time, not necessarily your example, but they tend to have very slow heart rates, like people who have anorexia, like very underweight, like they have super low heart rates. And, you know, I've read examples of people where they go into the doctor's office and they're like praised for having this low heart rate. And that's not always a great thing if it's not from, you know, exercise, things like that.

Also, like I said, you may just get to a point where, like I said, you just don't move as much. You're just not, you just don't fidget as much. You just don't really have the desire to train or maybe your training intensity goes down. So you know your weight could stay the same, but you're not putting in as much effort. Maybe you slowly kind of lose muscle tissue because of that.

You're not putting as much fuel into the system. So those are kind of the big things that stick out. You mentioned the adaptability of kind of having like a range of calories. Based on what factors and how do they implement those factors, can someone go from having a window of 500 calories to 800 calories to those extremes that you were talking about where it sounds like

there's like a, in order to lose weight, needing to eat sub 1400 calories in a day. Obviously more movement, but are there other things, timing of exercises, et cetera? Is it more consistent throughout the day? Just 10,000 steps. Like what kind of levers can someone pull? Because that really is kind of the goal is to get from,

I have to eat 2000 calories a day to maintain a stable body weight, or I gain weight or lose weight, to how do I eat between 1500,500 and 2,500 or 2,000 to 3,000. That in my opinion is the goal of having a really healthy metabolism is it doesn't is it is adapting to whatever stimulus you are putting in and maintaining stable health despite the stimulus.

Are there things that people can do in order to improve that range? Yeah, so it's really a matter of just honestly slowly upping your food and seeing what happens. I mean, it depends on how meticulous someone wants to get. I mean, for some people in rapid, I do have them track their food for a while, and this isn't right for everyone, but I think it's just seeing how you feel, right?

Like maybe you have fairly similar meals you eat each day or kind of this template that right for everyone, but I think it's just seeing how you feel right like maybe you have fairly similar meals You eat each day or kind of this template that works for you just Slowly, you know Maybe add a little bit of food to one meal because again if you've been eating Let's say your range could potentially be 2,000 to 3,000 if you've been eating 2,000 and you immediately go to 3,000 You're gonna gain weight at first because your thyroid's a little bit slower. Like I said, your body temperature's a little bit lower. So it's not that you can immediately go

between these two ranges. You have to work up to them. So that's what I usually have people do is slowly, let's just slowly, especially if they're, I gave Doug the ranges earlier of some of these ranges like nine to 12 calories per pound of body weight, you know, fat loss. If someone right now is eating 10 calories per pound and they're maintaining their weight, I would definitely encourage them to try to bump up slightly and see how they respond.

And again, it's a, it's fairly slow process because your body has to upregulate things, right? You give it more energy, you know, then whatever process it was down regulating, then it feels most important will slowly start kind of increasing over time. So it's more just giving the body more fuel to run more processes, but it is a slow process to make sure you aren't gaining weight. Because again, we all have a ceiling, right? To where we get above that and we will gain. So. But it is more kind of like an increase in the calories

and then finding stability at each increase or incremental increase versus, I would have kind of assumed that there was more like a consistent movement side. And I'm sure that plays into it as well, but that would have been kind of like. And there's sure that plays into it as well. But that would have been kind of so many variables. Yeah, yeah, you don't necessarily have to move more. Like I said, if more energy is being taken away from testosterone production, or, you know, your gastric emptying, or all of these things, you don't necessarily have to be moving more. This

is not just a component of neat, like non exerciseexercise activity thermogenesis. This is also other things going on under the hood with your physiology. So it doesn't mean you have to move more, but ideally it makes you want to move more. Like you feel just more energetic because you're getting more essentially ATP going through the system. I mean kind of the you know, Crip cycle cranking through. So that's more of the strategy. I mean, there are strategies. I mean, obviously in rapid, we have, you know, the exercise plan.

So I usually coordinate with them, like, you know, about that topic and seeing how we can get them more performance that way over time. But it is a slow process, but just for the individual, it's, you know, slowly up your food, track your weight. So that's the question I asked. So like, when you when you find the window of food, then do you say, all right, let's, let's, we can comfortably shift when we're going to have a workout,

we're going to give some extra calories, and we're way less risk of it causing weight gain, you know, do you start to make strategy changes once you have the window or is it just, or is that irrelevant? No, just when I have the window, I mean, yeah, there does come down to, you know, obviously timing and stuff like that is important,

but I want them, if the range is 2000 to 3000, I want them trying to eat 3000 every single day. And try to go to the high, no matter what. Yeah, I'm trying to make sure that I want them to do as much as they can to again to feel good. And like will the body ever get

adjusted to that and finally start to gain, you know, like or do you really find that they can maintain that body weight at that very high end forever? Yeah, I feel like they can't. But again, if that high range allows them to train harder, perform better, maybe

they gain more muscle, sure, possible that that shift, like maybe it goes from 2000 3000 goes from, you know, 2400 x y z. So, right. I mean, there is going to be a limit to that, right? We're all not going to be able to just keep adding muscle. I mean, there's, we all have genetic limits, essentially. But yeah, that's just what I'm trying to find for, for the clients to fill their best. Some people come in, I mean, they're seriously consuming like, seven, eight calories per pound of

bodyweight, and they're not losing weight. And, you know, I mean, if they want to lose weight, do you cut their calories? I mean, I know, you know, we could talk about reporting issues, things like that. But I've coached so many people that it some people do just have a really low. And you you do you have to build them up first. I've taken people. I see what you're saying. Yeah. Over time to where they're actually at a, you know, a much better place

where they feel good for a while and then you can can cut and it doesn't take quite as much. Okay, so like you take a guy who's got super low calories and you find that window and you hold him at that window for a long time and then you say, now we've built your processes up, potentially you got your hormonal system is built, all these things are kicking, Now let's start to drop again. And then you start to lose even probably less than

where you were before. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, that's kind of the idea. But normally, you don't have to hold them there very long, because it will take a while to get up to that top end. So I find it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, so it's, you know, every two weeks, you might bump a small amount. I mean, this is if we're micromanaging every small detail. But I think it's something people could really start paying attention to because it's just not talked about a lot like under reading low energy availability, like, and just, you know, maximizing your output. So many people want to obviously have possible so many people are afraid of gaining weight and they're eating as little as possible to like, you know, afraid they're afraid of gaining weight. You know, we all have social media, like everyone shredded to the bone. That's not always healthy. Like that's not, that's not always an awesome thing to be.

AI is a beautiful thing too. You got to. Oh yeah. Yeah. I know. Yeah. Everyone we see is just shredded and happy all the time. Yeah. And it's good to have a little, I mean, you want a little bit of body fat. I mean, that produces hormones, things like that.

And some people are not sustainable. I mean, you know, there's a variability across how you can stay and hold. Well, guy, like you said, Eric Helms, I mean like a hundred percent, like if whatever he says it takes to lose is right, because it's like we've had him on the show. Have we not? Like, I feel like he's been on.

Yeah. Yeah. It's it's been a long time. And so like like that dude says he has to cut that much to lose weight. It's what has to. It's true. Yeah. And they have another athlete under their coaching company, Dirk Emmerich, who won like, I mean, he's like really good, but he's a lightweight. I think he comes on stage at like 130 to 140. He's the opposite. His metabolism, not adaptive at all. I think he maintains, again, he's like small dude to cut. I mean, I think to maintain, he's around like 2600, 27, maybe 28 to cut. I

think he's like at 2200 and he gets all the way to the stage. It's probably the most shredded Natural out there. I mean, I think he won the Yorton whatever. I'm not super familiar, but Again, he doesn't have a super wide range So it can vary Yeah Example that you were talking about earlier was someone they coming in and they're they're eating seven, eight calories per pound of body weight. They're radically under eating. They're still not losing weight.

They're still not getting leaner. If you're the if you're that person, you probably are afraid to bump your calories like you just you're just gonna put all this weight back on that maybe you just lost before you put yourself in this hole. Or you're a trainer or a coach of some type and you get some that comes to you and they're like, I can't lose any more weight and they show you their diet and the calories are excessively low. And then you're like, man, I should I bump this person's calories? Like I don't want to get them as a client. And then the next week, they gained two pounds and they're like, bail them.

Going somewhere else. I know exactly. Like I want and then they go tell their friends like I want to lose weight. He told me eat more food and I gained a bunch of weight. What an idiot. You're fired. Yeah, it's really tricky. How do you handle that situation?

It's a really trying to get back out to me like a macro tweak in there some well as well. Yeah, it's very possible. It could be macronutrient composition could be food. I mean, we know that like, you know, foods that are highly processed, like, let's say I have calories of chips versus 100 calories of an apple, those calories are not equated. So I mean, there's definitely a difference, right? Because our body has to break down the

apple, you know, the processing makes it easier for us to digest store. So there's definitely differences like that. But I think ultimately, it's just a hard conversation you have to have. Do you want to be the coach that cuts their calories to five calories per pound, you know, and helps them lose weight? No. Awesome. And then they leave you and they're stuck. Like what are they going to do now? When they start to increase their calories, they're going to they're going to gain weight right away. So really you have to play the long game. You have to explain to them, you know, we're not going to lose fat right now, to be honest.

Like we're not going to lose fat right now, to be honest, like we're not, what we're going to do is we're going to build, you know, build you back up to be healthy, to feel good. And ideally we don't gain weight. So we'll increase calories slowly again, getting things revving again, assuming all else is okay, right? There's not an underlying dysfunction, you know, I mean, something going on behind, you know, that's serious medically, something like that, then we are just going to slowly increase as high, you know, as high as we

can start, they totally start feeling good. And when it's time, you know, we do it, but you have to help them understand that it's, it's not going to be quick, like it is going to take time. Yeah, right. First, you make sure they're eating high quality food, kind of the basics of not processed, whole foods, right. First, you make sure they're eating high quality food, kind of the basics of not processed, whole foods, etc. And then you make sure their macros are at least somewhere in the ballpark of reasonable, we'll say. And then

and after that, what you're like 100 200 calories a week, that type of thing. And you're meticulously tracking their body weight to make sure that it's not increasing at a at a rate that they're unhappy with. And then once it starts to go up, then you can say, okay, we kind of hit the limit. Now you're starting to gain weight, maintain there for a while, they're at the top end of their range, and then start to ratchet it back down with high quality food and, and, you know, a good macro split. Yeah, exactly. So I mean, again, if we're being

super meticulous, I would have them track their weight, we would take the average across the week. And then it'd be every two weeks is when I make the decision. Because again, the body can, you know, it can hold water, everything like that. So it usually takes two weeks to assess like, okay, are they truly gaining truly losing? And then we'll make a bump and the bump depends on how, you know, if I have someone that's 300 pounds, I mean, like 250 heavy, like an athlete, I'm able to make slightly bigger jumps than someone who's eating not very much. But yeah, somewhere between,

I mean, if it's on the low end, like 50 to 150, if it's a bigger person, we may go 150 to 250 potentially. And then it's just every couple. Usually I will try though, Doug, so I won't right away. Let's say we get to a two week period and they actually gained a little bit. I won't immediately pull back.

I'll actually hold there another two weeks. If they stay stable there, I'll try to bump again. It's usually like if I have two to three in a row where like the weight is going up, that's when I'll be like, OK, we're back. And you just have to I don't know. You really have to convince them like to to be patient. Understand like we have a plan.

Yeah, we have a few weight contested athletes from, you know, boxing, weightlifting, things along those lines. Do you find that it's easier for them to cut weight because they're doing it kind of like having this like massive weight cuts. Call it quarterly, maybe every six months if that's where their careers at. year for them to cut weight? Cause they're doing it kind of like having this like massive weight cuts, call it quarterly, maybe every six months if they're, if that's where their careers at, if they are able to get to these higher levels and maintain kind of the, the higher end of a stable body weight, they say that gets to 3000 calories or something along those lines.

Um, do you see the weight drop more efficiently going from 3000 to 2800 to 26? Or do they still need to get kind of all the way down to those really low numbers? If they're playing at the higher end, is the lower end of stable that far away from kind of the median? Or are you able to start cutting weight at what may have been in the past like eating in a surplus? So it's usually that you still have to get very low. The thing is that it's easier, right? Because you're coming from a place of like, there's really this idea of diet fatigue, like you just, you know, you're always feeling sluggish. I mean, psychologically, it's much harder. So I mean, unless them by them eating a lot, they're able to be better body composition, then usually that low end is still there.

Like you can't move that unless you truly kind of shift their body composition wise. So they do usually have to get low, but it's an easier process. Because again, you're not fatigued from it. They have more diet structure in place, all of those things and they're already like in a place of moving more, right? That's a big factor. If you're coming from a place of pretty low calories, not moving a lot and then when you cut calories, you know, your your meat is already super low. It's hard to bump

that up more. I would imagine if they're if they're with the activity level of that height, it's a much easier process. Not that it's easy to go that low in anything but having that activity level training multiple times a day and just the consistent cardiovascular work that they're putting in just rolling or whatever it is it's got to be a slightly easier process. Yeah well and you're coming from a place like I mean if your hormones are in a better place because you're eating more then that initial cut is going to be easier. Like you're going to lose weight faster, but usually to eventually get as lean as they need to get, you have to cut low.

But the process is probably going to be faster. Like it won't take as long because again, they're already starting from a place of, you know, just a higher metabolism. Yeah. The calories will eventually have to get to that low end to get as lean as they need most likely. Even in a, where is it in non-weight contested sports, where do you see kind of like the highest levels of energy?

Is that also kind of associated with eating at like the higher end of that range? Or is there more like a median when it comes to really like the optimizing performance or somebody kind of like mashes clients that may have like a four or five day window where they need to play two or three matches in a day? Like, how do you kind of stabilize that? Personally, anytime I was competing, I always remember thinking like, I don't enjoy eating that much, but also I probably wasn't that good at competing. So maybe what better athletes are doing is eating a lot more

throughout the day. But I always like, I never really felt like I needed that much food on game days. It was always, you for sure did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mass is telling me I didn't even touch my best. Imagine what I could have been, dude. It's like more above average. That's where there's strategic, you know, like ways to increase caloric density without feeling too full. So that's why I have someone who has those days where they have super high energy outputs. That's where I would include some easy to digest carb sources. So I'd most likely keep, let's say we work their calories up on average to 4,000, you

know, something crazy because they have high energy output. I would keep them there like all days, but on those double days, that's where we include some very easy to digest, you know, carbohydrate sources around their training. And that makes it easy to then adjust. So then on the off day, they have this template, you know for most of our clients we give them a meal plan, you know that meal plan would be pretty stationary across days. It would just change then around their training and I hear it all the time like how much better performance is when we do include you know more fuel, intra just in terms

of recovery. Oh, 100%. You might have to even, because you got to, you got to, you got to change or consider the fact you're going to be nervous. So like, you know, there's gonna, cortisol is going to be a little higher. So it is harder to eat on those days. So, but for me, it worked to drink most of my calories,

you know, like I would, I I would even my protein, my carbs. I would drink the majority. And it was a game changer from, you know, you see most know how does you think it's not that important is for sure important. Well, that's what you come to the final deadlift. I felt great. They were like tanking. So, yeah, we talk about a foundation of whole foods and that is great, but that's where,

like for example, in an athlete, if they're eating a whole food diet of 4,000 calories, they're gonna feel like trash. I mean, they're gonna feel slow, they're gonna feel heavy. So this is where selective food choice, like strategic food choices really helps because it's very possible. I love the fact y'all do that. You need to eat more.

Right. Because you were consuming like, you know, a lot of fiber, a lot of whole foods, you know, like that's where you have to play with this. And, you know, even if you feel good, like in the moment, I guarantee you, if you had the ability to add more fuel to your system and like your body needed it, you would have felt better. Totally. It's just, yeah, it's not the place for like chicken breast, broccoli and your almonds. It's a place, you know, you just get it in however you can best get it in where it can

be digested. Like such a game changer. When I started drinking my calories, because I would get nauseous, I would be in the back and I would try to eat, you know, but when I started to drink it or find strategic ways to get in the calories, even excess that day, the day of competing, because you got, you had to consider that I just had a horrible weight cut, you know, it was a huge game changer for me. And that's another benefit of eating more too, is you can get in more micronutrients. So if you're eating, I'm a huge fan of micronutrients.

Like we hear macronutrients all the time, carbs, fats, proteins, all of that, but micronutrients are so important for how you feel your overall health. Totally. A zillion times talking about different ones. And when you're eating more food, that gives you more opportunity to get in more, you know, more micronutrients. So for an athlete that's consuming 4,000 calories a day, he is easily going to get in his micronutrients unless he's just eating.

And I've seen it. Same thing. Like, I mean, you know, it's, that's going to be hard, but you know, you're more likely to get those, you know, hit those micronutrient targets if you are consuming more food. I know Andy, it was Andy, it was a Dan that said that the macros are there for what you look like. It's the micros is how you feel and how you can perform that. It was a game changer for me when they say, I think it was probably Dan.

It was Dan. But like calories in the size of your body, macros are what it looks like. And micro is how you perform. Right. And I think it's if you're below, I think it's 1600 calories. What is it? I think it's almost impossible to get the RDA

for micro nutrients if you're below something like that. It's just very hard. I mean, unless you're just like, I mean, I'm not talking about multivitamins, athletic greens, things like that. It's just very hard. I mean, unless you're just like, I mean, I'm not talking about multivitamins, athletic grains, things like that, but if you're eating whole foods, I think if you're below like 1500 to 1600, it's very challenging, if not impossible.

Sure. Yeah, he's. So you would have to do things for everybody. That's what I love about, you know, Rapid, is that you guys give them those three options, and it's like, you know, a guy like, um, well, let's just, I don't know if I should say his name, but let's say I got one of the world's best pickleball players and like that dude, like he has to have

choices because like, you know, he'll, he'll have to, they'll fly him to Paris and be like, now you got to work with the, all these people that do gets in everything we ask him to do, but he has the choices, you know? He's not going to be able to have his little meal perfectly done out. He'll just have to get it in where it fits in those days. That was, I mean, that's brilliant.

It's just, it's real life. It's not real life to say every single day, you're going to eat four meals and you're going to have broccoli and you're going to have all these, like, it's not real. you got a marathon on your way too that uh that was his his number one question he was like i don't want to be on this like overly crazy things like i got a life to live he also runs like two and a half hour marathons guys total freak um he's just like i'm like dude you run two and a half hour marathons. We got, don't worry.

Let's go like 90% good. And then one day a week, like perfect. How's that sound? He was like, I got you. Like you're good, man. You're, you're out there just hammering the pavement and, uh, it'll be all right. Energy output. You have so much opportunity to get in enough food in therefore, micronutrients. Travis mentioned like the three

types of meals, he really is referring to what we call optimal sufficient convenient meal plans, we have kind of like different categories of meal plans, we don't, it's not always a perfectly like that for every person depends on the specific client needs. But Zach, can you dig into that a little more kind of like the different types of meal plans that we provide for people? Yeah, so you said there are three different ones. The optimal one is, to be honest, I don't love the name optimal. Like it doesn't mean if you don't follow that

exact one, you're not optimized, but it's more of like a teaching tool. So it tells the exact foods to eat, like the exact time, list out the calories, the macros, the fiber, the saturated fat. I mean, it lists everything for that person. The sufficient one is more, it's almost identical to the optimal, but it's more like instead of me listing broccoli, it would say, hey, have a serving of vegetables. Instead of saying like chicken breast, it would say have a lean protein. You know, so it allows you that flexibility to choose foods that you enjoy and allows you more variety. Cause I don't expect you to eat, yeah, chicken breast and broccoli on the meal plan

every single day. And then the convenient one is more of just non-perishable food items. Like Travis said, we have some athletes and more than just athletes, we have people that travel all over the world, you know, options if they're in an airport, if they're, you know, down or taxi or the, you know, they can't find a restaurant. Like I always describe it to people. How do you get jacked in a gas station? That's a

real, that's absolutely. I'm so using that my video Stuff yeah exactly like I've been there you go in there and you find you get some like the was it beach I keep you know, like two or three. Yeah beef jerky two or three bananas and apple Yeah, 7-eleven has bananas and and apples, every single one of them. Nobody goes in there, not when there's a slurping staring at you. You gotta learn how to get jacked in the gas station. I did a whole 30 and I could still stop in a gas station. There's options.

You just gotta be creative. You gotta be able to shop it in a gas station. You gotta know what you're looking for is what it is, or go and get that Big 100 in your life. It's like a double candy bar with a little bit of protein. Get after it. Yeah, the big one. Oh yeah.

It's like shooting like a cut. They still make those things. Oh, do they? Oh my gosh. Oh yeah. You probably have to go to the gas station that hasn't re-upped their protein supply in the last decade, but they're out there. You're probably still digesting the first one you had years ago, so it's probably still

in your belly. We're going to get hit by an asteroid and the aliens will come back, or like next civilization will come back and they'll be like, what is this big 100 bar? The super cook is wrong? It survived. Until they eat it and they understand, they'll be like, oh, I see why they have these. I see how they have these. I see how we took them over so easily. Yeah, I love those things.

This is my favorite protein bar ever. Yeah. I put them in meal plans all the time. They nailed it. Not really. That what about what about food allergies? Do you like can you develop food allergies over time? Let's say you eat too much of the same foods over and over and over. Can you develop allergies or is like, what causes someone to be allergic to a certain type of food? So I've heard that. I don't know if that's true. Maybe one of you guys comment on that. I don't believe in research to support that idea that I because I've heard that like, you consumed eggs too

often, like you develop an allergy. I don't think there's any. I don't know. Don't quote me on that. But I don't think there's any truth to that. Yeah, I really asked you like, I love shrimp research on it. And I developed allergies and tolerances. So an allergy is like your body, you know, has an immune response and like, you know, you have issues, like major issues.

Like the most common ones I think are eggs and nuts. Dairy is somewhat common. Yeah. But they're also intolerant. Shellfish maybe? Yeah, you don't do well with their particular food. So definitely differences there. Yeah, it broke my heart. because I love shrimp and grits.

Shrimp and grits is like a lowland. I never had it growing up because in the mountains, it's not a big thing, but my wife introduced me to shrimp and grits and I love it. You can't say you can't eat shrimp or just the shellfish in general? All of a sudden one day we were eating shrimp and my face was getting red and

I started getting, you know, feeling my throat get all like I was getting like choked on things. My throat was swelling and I'm like dang it, it broke my heart. So then I just said it had to be something else. So I tried it literally like two other times. I literally almost killed myself. You're hitting yourself with an EpiPen and you're going it's got to be something else for sure.

The final time it got dangerous, we were at Sorenex and I like thought I was gonna have to call 911 and like, damn it. I'm so mad. Yeah, my wife can't eat shellfish either. Yeah. Somebody out there needs to find a cure to that. I would. I love. What is a grit by the way, man? Living in the South, you see people with a big old plate of grits and I go what in the grain and it like I don't know what it is To be honest, I don't know a grain People trying to explain it. I still can't know it's like they explain it like you are right now and I go still need an answer Yeah, that's yeah Zack where can where can people find you man? Yes, I on, I'm not super active, but I'm on Instagram. I think I'm Zach M. Fitness.

So that's probably the best. He doesn't remember his handle. That is impressive, sir. I know. I know. I see what you guys do. You guys get the super smart dudes who just are going to do social media and then you do it for them.

They're out there honing their craft. I work on it all the time. You think I'd be more tech savvy. And I can barely even share a story. I had a message flop. You guys had floppy on two weeks ago. I was like, how do I share the like the new website thing? I would much rather just do my work. It's brilliant. I'd much rather just do my craft than social media. Like I'd rather coach. I'd rather do do my work. It's brilliant. I'd much rather just do my craft than social media. I'd rather coach. I'd rather do what I do

instead of worrying about what story I put out. I want to create the story and let someone else put it out. I want to do what I do. Yeah! It's my craft. I lost my way for a minute. I want to do social media. craft. I lost my way for a minute. Started, want to do social media. I'm not social media person. I keep telling myself I'm going to, I don't know why, but then I don't.

Yeah. I just get somebody to do it for you if you feel like you need to, but like, I'd rather just work for rabbit and just like, just bring me these world-class athletes and let me crush it. Uh-huh. Right? I love it. Yeah.

Hell yeah. So much fun. Doug Larson, our old bash. You were just talking and I forgot about the people find you. Well, if you really want to get jacked, go to rapid and like get the whole kit and caboodle, but otherwise go to mashlead.com, but be the ones find me. Kit and caboodle. You guys ever fine. Me. Kitten Caboodle. Get your business. You guys ever heard that word?

Kitten? Yeah. Not on the shrug show, but yeah, yes. Now you have. So like my grandma probably said it was OK. Larson.

I'm an Instagram Douglas Larson. And we just started this account because we haven't had Instagram for- Oh, look at that. We were just talking about that. RTA Performance Lab on Instagram. Check it out. I am Anders Varner at Anders Varner

and we are Barbell Shrugged at Barbell underscore shrugged. And make sure you get over to rtalab.com. That is the signature program inside rapid health optimization where you can go and experience all the lab lifestyle, performance, testing, analysis, and coaching to help you optimize your health and performance. You can access all of that over at aratelab.com.

Friends, we'll see you guys next week.