Barbell Shrugged - Physiology Friday: [Psoriasis] A 3-Step System to Find Root Cause, Relief, and Symptom Management w/ Anders Varner, Doug Larson, Travis Mash, and Dan Garner

Episode Date: February 28, 2025

What is psoriasis. How is it related to other skin issues like eczema, acne, and Rosacea. What is causing the body to overproduce skin cells as a protective measure. What lab tests likely need to be ordered to see immune disfunction and root causes. Topical treatments that help manage symptoms vs. addressing root cause. Are the skin issues the first sign of future issues if the problem is not resolved? What is the role of gut health in healing skin issues? To learn more, please go to https://rapidhealthoptimization.com Connect with our guests: Anders Varner on Instagram Doug Larson on Instagram Coach Travis Mash on Instagram Dan Garner on Instagram

Shrug family, this week on Barbell Shrugged, Physiology Friday, we're back. Dan Garner today is going to be digging into skin issues, psoriasis specifically, which is something I didn't know that you could be good at. And then Dan and Brian Callen kind of set the world on fire a couple years ago when Dan Garner really helped Brian Callen, the comedian. You've probably heard of that guy. He's talked about his work with Dan many, many times on multiple different platforms, which kind of made Dan like the psoriasis go-to guy.

And in this show, we kind of break down all of the triggers for that, how you can kind of optimize your immune system, what to be looking for, some tactics on understanding how to get healthier to prevent the flare-ups, and some real systems and strategies for being able to heal

and feel better and not have to constantly worry about breakouts. As always, friends, you can get over to aretelab.com. That's A-R-E-T-E-L-A-B.com. And that is where you can learn about all things labs, lifestyle, performance, testing, analysis, and coaching that we do inside Arete Lab, the signature program inside Rapid Health Optimization. And you can access all of that at oratelab.com. Friends, let's get into the show. Welcome to Barbell Shrugged. I'm Anders Warner, Doug Larson, Coach Travis Mash, and Dan Garner. Today on Barbell Shrugged, we're going to be talking about psoriasis and other skin issues and how, where they come from,

how we can start to move the ball forward and getting rid of them, managing them. Dan Garner was psoriasis. Like the thing that you became the most famous for, like you were at Brian Callen. First off, Brian Callen is a hysterical human being. Dude, when me and him went out to dinner in Santa Monica and you don't really know how funny comedians really are until you hang out with them in person

and you die the entire time. When we did his kickoff call, I really tried to make him laugh and I felt great even if he just did it to make me feel good, but I tried. You trying to show Travis you're strong. Exactly, that's 100%. Like, Travisis look at my 315 back squat aren't you impressed he's like no he would actually laugh the same way brian did right i he is hysterical um but he gave you the biggest shout out on Joe Rogan for solving his psoriasis problem and then dropped your email to like 10 million people.

Yeah. I'd love to dig in. When it comes to skin issues, that has to be one of the more, I mean, I've talked to people that are coming into our program that have over 90% of their body covered in psoriasis. And it doesn't ever feel like that issue is going away for them. Well, they've tried every topical solution. They've taken pill, never goes away. Dermatologist just doesn't know the exact answer. At like the highest level, where do a lot of these skin issues come from? Psoriasis specifically seems to be the one that I talk about kind of the most

with people, but where do they come from? It's an autoimmune condition. So it has autoimmune and autoinflammatory properties to it. It's very, very complicated to identify somebody's triggers. Something I've talked about on the podcast before is the the omnipresence of the immune system, right? Like if I did want to cut out your gastrointestinal system, I could if I wanted to cut out your cardiovascular system, I could if I wanted to cut out your thyroid, I could. If I wanted to cut out your immune system, I couldn't. It's on every single cell of the body working 24 seven. So when you have a type of immune issue, the the the identification process at which you can try to find your triggers and or

root causes become highly complicated because immunity is everywhere. It is not localized to one section of the body that has an extremely sophisticated way in which you can interpret and analyze what's going on. Not to mention, there is still a lot about autoimmunity that we don't know. There are a lot. So that whole Brian Callen thing was a real catalyst for me to actually understand the community behind psoriasis. I've had a lot of like so since i had already produced world champion athletes at that time and i got a bigger response from that psoriasis shout out then i got winning the ufc title with that with athletes like or winning an olympic gold medal you know like you

get some traction online for that but then uh a shout out on the Joe Rogan experience has massive is a catalyst for a lot of people. And I think it was an amazing catalyst. It forced me to actually look into it. And the story behind Brian is he had been to six different doctors at that point and no one had gave him an answer. And then when he came to me, had him undergo a battery of lab analysis, his psoriasis was gone in 30 days. And I mean, gone.

Wow. And he's comfortable with me talking about this because he's talked about this, not just on Joe Rogan, but on The Writer and The Kid, on other podcasts as well. And six different doctors and no one had found an answer for him. And then he came to me, underwent the labs, gone in 30 days and didn't come back. So he went into remission. So then that actually prompted this onslaught of people directly to my email, because that was said on the biggest podcast in the world, but that was fine. And then I was able to... I'm sure it was fine.

Well, you think so, but you're just like... It's like, holy, I don't have an assistant. I don't want to hire one. And this is going to take a while. So that was kind of what happened. But I went through them all. And I started uncovering. I was like, man, this is crazy from one episode because I thought it was more of an uncommon

thing. But then I looked in the Journal of European Dermatology. They predicted that 2% this is worldwide, 2% of children have psoriasis, up to 11% of adults have psoriasis, which prompted me to look into the Journal of European Dermatology that found worldwide, 2% of the population of children have psoriasis and up to 11% of adults have psoriasis. So that was like, wow, like this is a huge population here that I can help that is clearly currently being underserved right now who are looking for answers and just simply not getting them. Like Callan has the resources to get anybody in the world. And he was so tired of looking for people.

He's like, hey, maybe I'll try that weird guy in Canada who hangs out in his basement. Maybe he's got some sort of decision or situation for me here. And he contacted me, reached out, labs, done. We got him completely figured out. And it's a very unique process for each individual because that's how autoimmunity works. It's, it's genetic environmental triggers, but it's a, it's, it's a disease that afflicts a lot of people and it can really impact your quality of life. So I've, I've really, really enjoyed, and I've taken an enormous

amount of fulfillment helping this community. How do Justin Marchegiani How do you define if someone has psoriasis? Is it just dry skin? Is it like how do you diagnose that? Dr. Tim Jackson Yeah, so psoriasis, it's autoimmune and auto inflammatory. And what happens is your skin is actually turning over at such a rapid rate due to the inflammatory and immune damage so your typical skin turnover rate is supposed to be 28 days on average so you'll have new skin in 28 days psoriasis patients have a turnover rate of three to four days so they are creating skin at such a rapid rate that you create thick red lesions on it. Okay. Typically it's characterized by patches of red and they're, it's diagnosed via visible. You're able like a dermatologist will be able to look at it and understand that that's a psoriasis lesion, but you'll have a red patchy

lesion that is end up thick and almost placky looking because your skin is at such a high turnover rate that it's creating a bunch of skin all at the same time. And it's very, very energy expensive. And typically this skin is like it's got some sort of silver scales on it as well. The skin patches, they're typically characterized by a red patch that is thicker because you've had such a fast skin regeneration. And they'll also have some silver scales on it as well. It's very common for psoriasis patients to have red patches that have almost a placky look to them because of the speed of the turnover rate has resulted in that almost chunky sort of look. And then you'll

have a silver lining on it as well. That turnover rate of three to four days is actually incredibly fatiguing. So one thing you'll see a lot in psoriasis is lower energy levels. And this is hypothesized because of how dense skin is, you have to create vascular networks, you have to create hair follicles, you have to create sebaceous glands, you have to create sweat glands, you have to create the actual tissue itself, there's many enzymes involved. And you're doing a process at seven times the rate that it's supposed to move at, which is extremely energy expensive. So you'll end up typically diagnosis is is via vision. And then you'll have these types of patches. It's an autoimmune response,

and it's characterized by fatigue. So when you start collecting all of these things, and then certainly you're also at a very high percentage of, of, uh, coming across other of the autoimmune issues as well. I can't remember what the percentage is, but if you have one autoimmune condition, you're at a very, very high risk for getting others. So you might actually see, um, uh, TPO antibodies for the thyroid getting up in response or in, in, um, succession with the psoriasis symptoms as well. So what about like dandruff and like, you know, with, I have like incredibly like dry skin on my beard, you know, especially when I let it grow out a little bit.

Like, is that the same thing? Is that all a different ballgame? That is definitely a different ballgame because it's not autoimmune. So that kind of thing. And same with eczema, like eczema is not autoimmune. The dandruff is not autoimmune. So that kind of thing. And same with eczema, like eczema is not autoimmune, the dandruff is not autoimmune, these things there, they are more related to I would be actually be looking at a lot of dietary components. Because you know, that that's one of my problems with topical is you're trying to create a topical effect on the skin, when your next layer of skin

is coming in 28 days. So supporting that layer with the micronutrients and macronutrients responsible for building a healthy layer is what's gonna allow for the healthy skin to take place. So that's why probably in an enormous way, why Callan, you know, miraculously, 30 days sounds like this weird thing. Really not because that's when his turnover

was taking place where the next skin was there that wasn't afflicted by the condition. Dr. Andy Galpin here. As a listener of the show, you've probably heard us talking about the RTA program, which we're all incredibly proud of. It's a culmination of everything Dan Garn and I have learned over more than two decades of working with some of the world's most elite performers, award-winning athletes, billionaires, musicians, executives, and frankly, anyone who just wanted

to be at their absolute best. Arte is not a normal coaching program. It's not just macros and a workout plan. It's not physique transformation and pre and post pictures. Arte is something completely different. Arte is incredibly comprehensive and designed to uncover your unique molecular signature, find your performance anchors, and solve them permanently. You'll be working with not one person, but rather a full team of elite professionals, each with their own special expertise to maximize precision, accuracy, and effectiveness of your analysis and optimization plan. Arte isn't about treating symptoms or quick fixes. It's about unlocking your full potential and looking, feeling, and performing at your absolute best, physically and mentally, when the stakes are the highest.

To learn more, visit ArateLab.com. That's A-R-E-T-E Lab dot com. Now, back to the show. Wow. How is everything that you just said different than what you might potentially hear if you just went to a dermatologist and said, hey, I got this patch on my skin, what's going on? What's the cause of it all? How do I get rid of it, etc.? How are they going to treat you and how do they view it? That might be different than how you view it. Or is it the same? I think it's definitely different. And I think that both opinions are equal to win another.

Going to a dermatologist, getting their opinion, getting everything organized on that end of things is something that I would always recommend because it falls outside of my scope of practice. But philosophy is different. And that's why I've had a lot of momentum in this world, because I can't understand solving a problem from the outside in that was created from the inside out. So when you have a type of topical cream, what you're doing is you're putting massive anti-inflammatories into the area, but you're not actually addressing the inflammation, or you're taking an immune suppressant to suppress the immune response, but you're not dealing with why there was an immune

response in the first place. So my typical course of action is from the inside out, because that is how skin growth occurs. But that's also how you get to come to find the answers of inflammation and immunity and all of that to begin with. So topical stuff will absolutely work. But my thing with that is I would probably use it while you actually undertake the actions required to identify the root cause of the problem. I think that is probably an extremely effective symptom manager. But the reason I say probably and the reason why I'm not so on board with it is, A, again, I don't think you can solve a problem from the outside in that was created from the inside

out. But B, the hundreds of people that I've worked with with this condition are completely not for any of that. They don't feel better. They're still exhausted. They don't want an anti-inflammatory. They don't want the side effects that come with suppressing their immune system. They don't want any of that stuff. What they want to be is better.

And I don't think that you can get better by putting a cream on. I think you can look better, but I don't think you can get better. And it's fine to look better while you work on getting better. But the key emphasis is let's actually get you better with a lot of lifestyle changes that sometimes don't even require labs, honestly. There's been a lot of people in the world of psoriasis, where if you simply change the things you already know you should change, that creates a massive reduction in symptoms. So eating healthy, getting optimal sleep, managing your stress, exercising regularly, getting sunlight.

You know, we talk about a lot of complicated things on this podcast, purely because it's all of our passion. But if people clean up their lifestyle, your immune system loves you for it. And it's a go ahead, Anders. No, I was just agreeing with you on the lifestyle side of things. Yeah, it's a and it's just you're creating way less insults to the immune system. So a big part of my process is identifying what's creating the immune insult, because that immune system insult is presenting itself as a flare up in your skin. So what is the trigger is the trigger and environmental pollutant is a trigger and internal pathogen. One of the

triggers is trauma. So like this is actually exactly how I work with people, by the way, step one is trauma. Step two is lifestyle stressors. And step three is lab analysis. So labs actually the last thing, the first thing is trauma. And I actually had somebody and they came to me specifically with psoriasis. And then they got a divorce. And their psoriasis went away. So we, we actually made the joke that he divorced his psoriasis. I mean, that's not awesome. One more time. How is this?

What's the theory here? So, so absolutely. Emotional distress and trauma creates autoimmune events. Absolutely. That's it. That's why it's my number one thing. If you are living a life

that's currently lonely or currently making you unhappy or currently making you anxious, currently making you nervous, or you are with a partner that you shouldn't be with, like in the example of that conversation, a true case study that has no math behind it. He got literally divorced to psoriasis. That's why it's my first order of operation. He's less stressed because he got divorced. Gotcha. I was associating getting a divorce with being a very stressful event, not getting out of a bad relationship, being a de-stressor i see what you're saying no it was a eustress it was not a distress

in that specific context he was out of there and uh i got you and so was his psoriasis with the positive framework he was feeling freedom anytime i think about issues on the skin um I view so much of like just sweating. That's like the way that we, and I psoriasis as opposed to other autoimmune disorders they attack, like your thyroid or some other organ? Why specifically would the skin be the target that they would be going after? There's a very large genetic predisposition to this. That's why you've really got to look everywhere. There's something that I actually picked up, I believe it was Charles Poliquin back in the day, he said, he said, your environment is the your environment's the gun and your genes are the trigger.

So depending upon what is in your environment, your genes are going to express themselves in response to that environment. So my genetic expression to what I'm exposed to in my environment is different than what you are is different than Travis is different than Doug, we all have a different genetic predisposition. And in a huge way, this actually makes its way back to gut health. What happens when a ton of autoimmune patients have intestinal permeability, and this intestinal permeability can create a lot of inflammation that the immune system is creating a major reaction to. And that reaction in that genetic profile results in psoriasis plaque buildup. And that's why you see a lot of things

that improve intestinal health also improve psoriasis. So in terms of looking at the literature, probiotics is one of the ones that's actually very well researched to help ameliorate psoriasis symptoms. Fish oil is very well researched to help lower psoriasis symptoms. People just think fish oil is omega-3, but omega-3 is actually neutralized lipopolysaccharides, which are an inflammatory bacteria that gets into the serum of the blood. So that's one of the reasons why omega-3 are actually very effective at managing psoriasis because they manage inflammation, which manages the immune response. So probiotics, good in that respect. Fish oil, very good. Vitamin D has been demonstrated to reduce psoriasis

symptoms. And vitamin D, it's very underrated gut health products. A lot of people only think about gut health with respect to other supplements. Vitamin D is a major foundation that has to be in place for optimal gut health. And again, that has a ton of benefits on psoriasis outcomes. So that entire gut health in combination with your genetic triggers is a huge component as to what actually is going to create that skin flare up. And as a big reason why I end up looking at once someone has passed trauma, and even the trauma. So let's actually just stay there for one second. I say trauma is the very first thing. It's incredibly well documented, that stress is a negative creates negative outcomes on gut health is extremely well

documented that stress alone, you can get a bleeding ulcer just from stress, like your your body, what happens stress can lower something known as hydrochloric acid. Hydrochloric acid is the acid in the stomach that we use to break food down. The body is the ultimate efficiency machine. So it will only create a gut mucosal lining as thick as there is acid in the stomach. So if you have a lot of acid secretion from the parietal cells and chief cells of the stomach, then you will have a thick enough mucosal lining in order to protect your gut. But if stress has lowered hydrochloric acid secretion, which it absolutely does, then you will also decrease the thickness of this gut mucosal layer. With a decrease in thickness

of the mucosal layer, the moment you decrease stress or have a good day or something like that, then you will have an excess of acid, but only a very thin mucosal layer to where that actually gets through the mucosal layer and create a bleeding ulcer. This is already, this is very well documented. Stress by itself can make your stomach literally bleed. And then you'll pick it up as a cult blood in the stool. And your root cause was your freaking life. It was the stress that you're currently exposed to. But in the world of somebody who has the genes to create a flare up on their skin, in response to that type of inflammatory activity, and that type of activity that would foster

intestinal permeability, which would allow inflammation to leak into the circulatory system and create that skin response. That's somebody where trauma is absolutely number one, because it doesn't matter how many supplements you take until you deal with your life. You're not going to achieve true health. And sometimes you don't even need me. You just need to go have a tough conversation with someone or whatever that's going to be. You guys, I'm creating an emphasis on this because it's unbelievably a wide percentage of the population where this is actually their problem when it comes to autoimmunity.

OK, and then after that, that's when I look at visible and hidden stressors. So that's when we can change dietary components and actually look at supplements like fish oil, like vitamin D, like probiotics, like antioxidants to neutralize the inflammation in a non prescription based way. These things are all very well demonstrated to help with psoriasis symptoms. The Mediterranean diet is very good at helping reduce psoriasis symptoms. Managing stress by itself is going to improve gut health. Improving sleep quality is going to enhance the health of the immune system. A lot of these visible versus hidden stressors, that is already going to create a major symptom based and even root cause based approach to this thing. And then the labs is really what I do if you've already done that stuff. So if you come to me and

you're like, man, I don't have like a big trauma. And I've already been to therapy, or I've got really nothing going on. Plus, I feel like my diet and exercise, my sleep, my stress, they're all pretty dialed in. So this is when I'm going to start to do labs. And that's basically where Callan came to me with is good to go on a ton of fronts, guys, active guys, guy eats very well. He's lean, like everybody knows that guy's a he's lean, he's active, looks great for his age, all of those things. So that's when I begin to create to do the lab work. And I really want to do saliva, blood, urine, and stool, because the immune system is everywhere, which means we have to look everywhere in the labs. Yeah. That stress component is that when it comes to first off, are there other

autoimmune skin issues is like rosacea, one of them. Like there's so many different skin issues. I don't know exactly which ones fall into the autoimmune category or just symptomatic category. There's definitely other autoimmune base. And there's even, there's a ton of them where we can't even mention because there's different types of psoriasis. There's, there's your plaque, you have catatomy. There's many different types of psoriasis and other autoimmune.

So what I'm saying here actually helps basically everybody listening has an auto, that that's probably what you're getting at. That's absolutely going to help everybody listening to this. If they follow that process, those specific supplements, those dietary guidelines stay active. Um, a big one too, is actually, um, red light therapy. So that was, that was exactly, um, just in, in kind of researching and show prep for, for talking about this is, is red light. I'm not going to lie to you. When the red light thing came out, I was like, look at humans.

Now look at us. We've been convinced that that red light is going to do something and it's $1,400. Get out of here. Okay, so here's the deal. I had a guy come to me who all of you know, so I'm not going to say his name because we've never talked about it

on a public platform. But he came to me, psoriasis. We are talking about it. And ride light therapy completely eliminated it. Really? Didn't eliminate the root cause, but it absolutely annihilated the symptoms.

He said it was gone, gone, gone. So, so long as he continued with his red light therapy, that's what allowed him to manage those symptoms in a way that had him feel comfortable with his shirt off or in a bathing suit or something like that while he was trying different things out. So that's, I can tell you, from firsthand experience from a guy who's extremely intelligent, that that absolutely annihilated symptoms, which, you know, buys us the confidence that so he can go out confident and feeling good about himself, while we figure out what's actually going on. So red light's absolutely big. And this is referenceable as well. Meditation, meditation lowers psoriasis flare ups compared to people who don't meditate. Yeah, when calories are equated, lower sugar diets

reduce psoriasis flare ups. There's many things out there. Real quick, referencing the light therapy thing. So just two days ago, I was at jujitsu and I saw a guy had like a fist-size patch on his thigh. And I actually got diagnosed with psoriasis just two months ago. I had like dime and quarter-size little splotches on like my forearms.

And there was kind of like matching on both sides and they're like on my elbows. And I was like, what the hell's going on? it's matching it's something's going on so i i went in and got clobetazole and put it on there and which is like a topical thing and it went away and it was it was pretty easy overall but uh two things here a the doctor came in and basically said you have psoriasis you didn't do anything to get it there's nothing you can do about it you're just gonna put cream on the rest of your life. Do you have any questions? And I left, that was it. Uh, and then, um, and of course I'm like, I'm going to go talk to Dan about this. Um, so I was totally fine with that answer. Cause I,

I was going to speak with you anyway, but, uh, but this guy said when he, when I asked him on Sunday, um, you know, if he has psoriasis, he said, yeah. And he was, he was asking me what type I had. I don't even know the different types, but he was saying that some types are like really, really small patches and other ones are really big patches that kind of get over your whole body. And, and he has, he's had it for 20 years or whatever. And so he was telling me that he uses light therapy, which I wasn't even aware of was a thing. And what he said, and this might not be technically correct.

He said that there's types of light therapy where there's like three different types of ultraviolet light. And it's like one type. If you put on your whole body, it clears it up really well. Is that accurate? Is that the same as red light therapy? Or is what he said not quite accurate with ultraviolet light? Or does it have to be infrared?

I'm not sure. I don't want to pretend to know. There's a couple of things I could tell you. Number one is natural light has been demonstrated reduced symptoms. So and my answer for that, I've always just told people to go in nature, because that's going to help with your stress response, you'll get fresh air, you'll get natural sunlight, you get a lot of that stuff. So I wonder if the that type of light exposure, I don't know the difference even between the two. Honestly, when the guy got rid of the psoriasis

symptoms with the red light therapy, I didn't really even ask because it wasn't the root cause. So it didn't really get me excited. I was just happy that he was managing his symptoms in the meantime. So I don't know the actual mechanism behind it. So one thing I'll say is that nature does help that's already been demonstrated. But another thing is that psoriasis skin, it's interesting, psoriasis skin has a higher amount of firmicutes, bacterial species, and compared to controls, controls have a way higher proteobacteria species. So I'm wondering, you know, maybe it's chicken, egg, both ends, the microbiome, and that bacterial status of the body, because dysbiosis and gut health

playing a huge role in psoriasis, like we've already talked about on this podcast, where there's more firmicutes on the species compared to healthy controls have proteobacteria. But then I wonder if the specific light you use has an impact on that bacteria from the outside in. So gut health from the inside out can impact bacterial growth and diversity and balance. But then the light on the on from the outside it maybe it has a unique effect on that bacteria. Maybe it has nothing to do with it at all. I'm kind of just hypothesizing here. But I think that's a that'd be a pretty cool thing to

dig into and look into. You want to on a similar note, I um i was at jujitsu when i had this conversation i have another friend of mine who has eczema which which you said earlier is not not quite the same thing it's not autoimmune in the same way that that psoriasis is but i mean him seemed to have had a similar experience where when we do gi jujitsu and we get like like rug burn on on our our knees or like our elbows or wrists or forearm or whatever it is it tends to develop in those places so is there is there like mechanic when you get mechanical damage like a scraper or our knees or like our elbows or wrists or form or whatever it is, it tends to develop in those places. So is there is there like, when you get mechanical damage, like a scraper or some type of like a rug burn or turf burn type of thing? Does that typically manifest and then end up

creating a psoriasis type lesion? Is that is that just coincidence? Or how's that work? No, that's a that's mechanical in that it's mechanical damage. So remember when I said that the typical skin turnover rates, 28 days and psoriasis is three to four days. Well, now you're killing skin on top of killing skin. So you're, you're going to create a large, more localized response because in a place that already has a high turnover rate, now it's turnover rate is damaged even at that rate. So you're going to have an increased amount because if you have a turnover rate and the turnover rate by itself is what's creating this localized inflammatory response, these thick lesions on the skin that was already going to be

there at that three to four day turnover rate. But now if we go to jujitsu and we, we, cause you're killing skin cells while you're grappling, there is minor skin cell death taking place there so now you're basically increasing the turnover rate on something that already had a rapidly accelerated turnover rate and i think that you would probably also be some blend of bacteria there which who knows what's happening in that respect but in in a big way i would think that that's purely you're increasing the turnover rate of something that already had extremely high turnover rate yes does. Is that, is that mean it's happening? That turnover rate is now the standard for me moving forward? Or is it like only when you have a flare up, it's like that. It's like I have normal 28 day turnover and let's have a quote

unquote flare up. And then it's, then it's like total body wise, like my skin has shifted to three or four day turnover, but then it shifts back when I'm not flaring up as our works. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because your immune system has very quick responses to this kind of thing. And that's why lowering sugar, lowering alcohol. That's why these things have a quick and very swift response towards improving symptoms. So you're not just locked into this three to four day turnover rate, you're only locked in if you don't change your lifestyle and never really deal with the root cause. But that's the kind of you know, my whole thing is whereas I really like looking at what

could potentiate an autoimmune response. Because if you have all the red light therapy in the world in combination with creams, then perhaps that turnover rate is still very high. And perhaps all of those things are still going on beneath the surface. And perhaps also, you know, it's very well documented that the presence of one immune autoimmune issue, like we previously talked about increases your percentage risk of having another autoimmune issue. So if I just cover this one up a cream, what's stopping it from turning into autoimmune thyroid problem? What's turning what's stopping it from turning, turning into autoimmune parathyroid, whatever it's going to be, you're not necessarily stopping the next thing from taking place. And and what I've found is a lot of people with psoriasis have gut issues. Like that's just been my thing. I've helped

hundreds of these people. And I've looked into this so much because of because of that real catalyst event in my life. And that was like back in like 2016. I'm going to guess that that took place. So I've been I've been hammering this thing with so many people for so long. And I've really developed that three step process of you need to deal with any current trauma. Step one. Step two is, you know, diet, rest, exercise, sleep, stress, support, get in nature, that type of thing. And then if neither of those worked, then it's absolutely time for labs because the immune system is too vast and complicated to sometimes try and trial and error your way towards a root cause. When you look at the skin issue specific, and we talked about kind of like that, is psoriasis or I guess any autoimmune issue dealing with the skin, is that kind of like

a first sign or is that your thyroid's bad and then you get psoriasis at the same time? Or is that kind of like the first real clue that something very bad is, is, or it's, it's moving in the wrong direction? Um, is there, is there a hierarchy to it at all? The hierarchy is going to depend upon your genetics. So some may have a thyroid thing first and then psoriasis second, others may get psoriasis first thyroid thing second. It's going to depend a lot upon your genetics. But both are characterized with inflammation. So I think pain in the joints, and if you have gut health symptoms in combination with that, and then you see a skin thing kind of pop up in a weird pattern, like Doug talked about, hey, this is on both sides. That's this wasn't just one rub off from a from a grappling match,

or something I hit. I think that that is going to be some real key factors to where it's absolutely time to, to go see what's going on. I would say gut health symptoms, then pain in the joints, and then some type of, some type of unnatural skin event. Dan, what if I go, what if I go to the dermatologist and, you know, they determine I have psoriasis? Will they just give me a cream or are they going to do what you do and try to look at what's causing it, what's causing environmental genetics or whatever?

You're just going to get a cream. Kind of similar to where if you had high cholesterol, you get a statin. There, if you've got psoriasis, you're just going to get a cream. It's very time expensive to look into somebody's full life and figure out the triggers like uh environmental pollutants can be a trigger for autoimmunity but you're not going to get your environmental pollutant test there um parasites fungus uh bacterial imbalance these things in the gut can be triggers for autoimmunity but you're not going to get a stool test while you're at the dermatologist. Isn't that dangerous? Like, so like, so my psoriasis goes away, but like,

all of a sudden it comes, shows up in my thyroid, which is like worse, you know, like. Yeah. I, and I think that it's the same dangerous in a normal blood chemistry event too, because it's like, why was that marker off in the first place? And I'm kind of just taking a medication to ameliorate it. And that's sort of the way of the medical system because, and it's not their fault. They say millions and millions of lives every single year, but they're so, uh, they have to be so efficient with their time. They see, you know, 15 minute appointments, maximum 30 minutes, if you even get that. And then good luck asking questions because that's not going to happen either. So we, they're just got to churn people out so fast. And, uh, to be fair, a lot of people actually just want the cream.

There's, there is probably way more people that want the cream than want to do a stool test with Dan Garner. That's just a, that's probably a lot. I want to have that super hard conversation. Exactly. That too. Like that, that's a very hard thing to face. That's a lot harder than putting your poop in the mail. Okay. That's a, that's, that's step one for a reason. Cause what I do is really not going to work if your life isn't sorted out as something I've undeniably found in experience working with these people that said that you just, I don't want your money. Like, and in, and in a huge way, I am worth as much money to you telling you that you just, I don't want your money. Like, and in, and in a huge way, I am worth as much money to you telling you that you need a therapist as much as I am when I'm reading your labs.

No doubt. It's the absolute same value because you came to me to solve a problem and that is absolutely your problem. And I'm the only one who's going to tell you that. Look how much suicide is in the, yeah, absolutely, man. That's just as important. I've talked to many people coming into the program where, like, I would imagine there's a, that you were talking about, you have a client that feels confident going and taking their shirt off. That's like a massive piece of your life if you live at the beach. If you get it on your elbow, it may affect your life, but your confidence levels aren't completely shot. I talk to a lot of people that have it on their penis, on their butt crack, in areas that... It's not funny, but...

I mean, imagine being a single dude and having this stress. And now you're trying to go out on a Saturday night and meet somebody and you've, you've got real issues going on. That's why I've had so much fulfillment working with this group and, and so much empathy with them. Like it's, it's been amazing. Like I had a guy springing to mind right now. He was embarrassed to be in a swimsuit around his son because his son would look at it and point it out and his son was too young to kind of know what i was like that's rough man or something that hasn't in an embarrassing spot that sucks and

like you know i've worked with athletes and it's all cool when they win and stuff but men is it just as fulfilling to get somebody's skin better and then they message you that they were happy in a bathing suit like their goal wasn't to get a six-pack their goal wasn't to to win a title their their goal was to be confident and you know how many how many things can you buy that you that you truly love how many things can you buy that you actually there's it's so rare it's so rare to find something that you want to buy that you truly love and when i do my job you love yourself that's that's the biggest win that i could ever have in my entire career is if you're not you you love yourself at the end of this process because that thing is gone and you can live your life in the absence of that that anchor that you always feel is creating a spotlight effect on you yeah dang

we're ending it right there that was it that's why we all do this right there where can people find you at dan garner nutrition on instagram there it is There it is. Travis Mash. MashLead.com, at MashLeadPerformance on Instagram. There you go. Doug Larson. On Instagram, Douglas E. Larson. I'm Anders Warner at Anders Warner. You can find us at Barbell Shrugged, at Barbell underscore Shrugged.

And to make sure, I also get over to Rapid Health Report on Instagram. We're just firing up the new Instagram page. So Rapid Health Report. Friends, if you want to see all of this in action and see Dan Garner read my labs, head over to rapidhealthreport.com. There's a 90 minute video of him

breaking all this stuff down, giving nutrition and supplementation protocols. And friends, we'll see you guys next week.