Barbell Shrugged - [Physique Transformation] Building Muscle and Burning Fat Over 40 w/ Bryan Krahn, Anders Varner, Doug Larson, and Coach Travis Mash #693

Episode Date: May 3, 2023

Bryan Krahn is a fitness expert, writer, and online coach based in Canada. He has been involved in the fitness industry for over 20 years and has contributed to various fitness magazines such as Men's Health, Men's Fitness, Muscle & Fitness, and T-Nation. He is known for his evidence-based approach to training and nutrition, and for his ability to simplify complex concepts for his clients and readers.  Bryan Krahn has a degree in kinesiology from the University of Western Ontario and has also earned several certifications in fitness and nutrition, including Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist (CSCS) from the National Strength and Conditioning Association (NSCA) and Precision Nutrition Level 1 Coach. He has used his education and experience to help countless people achieve their fitness goals through his coaching and writing. Krahn's writing covers a variety of topics related to fitness, including training, nutrition, supplementation, and lifestyle. His articles and blog posts are widely read and respected, and he has developed a loyal following of readers and clients. In addition to his writing and coaching, Krahn is best known for helping men over 40 get in the best shape of their lives. To learn more, please go to https://rapidhealthreport.com   Connect with our guests: Bryan Krahn on Instagram Anders Varner on Instagram Doug Larson on Instagram Coach Travis Mash on Instagram  

Shrug family, this week on Barbell Shrug, we are hanging out with Brian Cron. And what's super cool about this is we've been following this guy for a long time. And I actually get to get him on today's episode of Barbell Shrug. We're going to be talking about how men over 40, this is his wheelhouse, lose fat, build muscle, why things are different than being some 23-year-old with all the time in the world. Get to the gym for many hours a day and do all of the... How do we condense this thing down when we have families? And how do we do it when we have busy jobs and real things to do and schedules that

are crazy. Super excited to have him on here. And a little bit of a side note, he internally, Rapid Health Optimization, we have been running a fun little challenge, the get shredded challenge amongst all of our, throughout the entire team and brian cron is the one that is coaching dan garner through everything that he's got going on so i have yet to see dan with his shirt off i hope he's flabby but something tells me he's not something tells me he's got his a game coming at us um and he's gonna look pretty good. So I'm assuming Brian has a really good idea of what's going on. I think you guys are going to enjoy this show. And as always, get over to rapidealthreport.com. That is where you can see Dan Garner and Dr. Andy Galpin doing a

lab lifestyle and performance analysis, as we do for all people going through rapid health optimization. Friends, let's get into the show. Welcome to Barbell Strugged. I'm Anders Warner, Doug Larson, Coach Travis Femess, Dan Garner. It's been a while since we've seen you on here, buddy. You've been doing a lot of things. And then Brian Cron, which I'm fired up about because last week I turned 40 years old and you are very good at coaching people over 40 years old. Disease transformation. Welcome to the show, man. This is going to be very cool.

Hey, great to be here. This could not be more relevant. And we have to let the audience know that you are coaching Dan Garner in the internal rapid health optimization transformation challenge. So there's a lot of pressure on you today and on june 2nd when dan has to take his shirt off in front of you know the 20 of us at the company here which is my 40th birthday as well yeah we're all in the mix now yeah so you guys are all kids you're all young i mean wait how old are you oh fuck i'm part of my language. I'm going to be 50 in a month. There you go. You're my old mom.

Hold on. I'm 50. I have so many questions about a decade from now already. But 40 was just the first time I found out that my dad was old. And now I'm there. So I don't know what that means. Don't ask. Don't ask.

Right? You and Travis down here. Brian, give me a little, a little background on how you got specifically into this niche of, of people. A lot of the things that you've kind of learned and I would assume there's, there's some big differences and just general approach from, from coaching 40 year olds and above to, you know, 23 year olds that can do anything and everything and still get all the

benefits. Well, it's interesting. I kind of fell into it because I started out personal training in my early 20s. And who could afford that, having a trainer three or four times a week? It's people who are in their 40s and 50s who have money. So I kind of learned a lot just by doing, frankly. I actually learned a lot more by listening. And so kind of just always see what the problems were and the hangups that people have and the things that bring them down. But to be perfectly honest, I didn't really feel really confident putting that, oh, I coached this demographic until i was well into my 40s myself

like i mean i still i'm still doing it but um i had to live it obviously and i've almost almost done living my 40s that was the biggest teacher but just um work you know about probably doing that demographic for at least 20 years now so i'm 25 and the thing that i find is that it's not about the exercise it's not about you know the loading parameters the training protocols it's about achieving consistency especially in that in that decade like you know like 35 to well i guess probably 50s is so freaking busy and there's so many demands on time. So I've been able to just get good at programming. You know, you only program so much around someone's life, but it's, it's figuring out which levers to push to create the most flexibility while still having, you know, consistency and hitting the outcomes, you know?

So, yeah, I feel like, um, I have a five-year-old and a two-year-old and no matter what age that hits you at, that's like the unifying thing of people that are in that age demographic is we just don't sleep. We can't, it's impossible. Even when I think I'm getting good sleep, I look at my aura ring and it goes, yeah, I was just slightly above average, but average for me is trash. It's not like I can't get a 90 on that thing if my life depends on it. And that also just translates into body composition, performance, your motivation, your energy, all of those things start working against you. So how do we start to find those levers to pull to actually overcome so many of the lifestyle things that are not? Well, you know what? You have to start always from a perspective that only someone with kids will have.

And what I mean is, you ever listen to people in their 20s and 30s and they're always like, oh, when I have kids, he's going to only eat organic. He's going to read 10 pages a day. He's never going to be on a device. He's going to set your mouth. Exactly. I sort of was that guy, but not for very long. But then you have children of your own and you're like, oh, my God. You're surviving.

You're surviving. Just eat the chicken nugget. Just eat the chicken nugget. Literally. You're like oh my god and you're surviving you're surviving just to eat the chicken nugget just eat the chicken nugget literally you're like just eat something yeah and um but the other thing is is that you're also um you know you're also that your kids are your priority you all you just stop thinking about oh what what about worrying say you know or like what's my you just you just stop caring um like you still you know you still care but you're never gonna put your kid but you know your kid's always priority number one and yeah at least hopefully is but um so you get all this information all these data points and at the same time you're kind of ignoring them because you know my kid's number one here you

know i'm gonna like your kid's sick you're not gonna go to the gym you're kind of ignoring them because, you know, my kid's number one here. You know, I'm going to – like if your kid's sick, you're not going to go to the gym. You're not going to leave him home with a barf bag and say, you know, I've got to go squat today. I'm training. I've got to train. And, you know, if you have a significant other, you can only pass them off onto her so many times. So you just have to develop the sense of, okay, you do what you got to do. You do the bare minimums and chase the metrics that really matter. And sleep is a big one, obviously,

probably more important than training at a certain point. But it's not getting too in the weeds and the paralysis. And I find there's so many, there's so much tech right now. And there's so many things that people are measuring that they're just talking talking themselves out of the game like if you didn't have an ordering like you wouldn't know what your fucking sleep score was you just go try you know yeah yeah you know it's um kind of like hrv you know i find people who obsess about hrv they'll literally talk themselves out of going to a workout or having a great workout they get two in their own head so you know is there a point is there

a point where you would say it's better off to just go home like you have like a cutoff to where this dude hasn't slept in two days it's like nothing good's gonna happen so how would how would you do that oh oh always yeah i would never train like i would never weight train if you haven't slept at all but i would still that that's a perfect time, though. That's when you go for a walk. You know, that's when you do something, you know, just to lower that over that stress load. So you make an accommodation that way. So like when I design a program, I try to have that build in that flexibility where they can make these calls. Like when I see when I see Monday, Ch monday chest day tuesday back there i'm always like okay you're not a parent you know no no i know i know we're doing that dan but that's

different yeah yeah what are you talking about i'm on a bro's plate right now that's a little bit different but uh you know he doesn't know i'm 34. 34? All right. Enough about you. But, you know, when you have that kind of, that structure that's so, you know, set in stone and concrete, it's just not practical. So then when you have these curveballs that come up, if you can't make a game time decision, like, like, all right, I can't train today. I'm going to go for a walk. I'll pick up the session tomorrow. And then you look at your calendar. Okay. And I'll do it at this time instead of this time and just make it and it doesn't stress you out and just own it like that's that to me is a real

that's a training program for someone yeah in this demographic where you can make you can still hit at the end of the week you still hit most of your targets but you didn't without having this paralysis of oh i missed monday chest day now i'm screwed you know now now what are we gonna do so for sure yeah i mean like i uh like i came across you man um actually first from t nation um back in the day i think everybody every old school meathead before social media it was all about t-nation baby yeah all on there and that was actually when i first came across him and then uh of course i i'm good buddies with uh john berardi and then i saw him post once that he's he's working on some changing some nutrition alterations with brian kron i was

like who the hell's talking about nutrition to berardi and then i was like oh yeah that's the guy so then i went over to his social media. I loved his posts. I loved his outlook. And the dude's the man. And this whole thing of like not being set in stone and keeping things simple, it's been a huge part of my transformation with you. Because, Brian, how many times have I traveled since we started?

Oh, my God. I don't want to think about it. At least four times i mean oh the dude's the hardest worker in the industry like you're always somewhere how's dan there and there at the same time sending sending brian like hey dude so this is the trip and brian's probably on the other side going dude but every single time he's like he just used the phrase real-time decisions he's doing real-time decisions he's doing real-time decisions every time to um make sure that i'm always doing the right thing and i think

that that's huge for anybody over 42 like anders the five-year-old and the two-year-old making sure you're always doing the right thing because if they got sick yesterday chest day it doesn't like that that throws things off because you're gonna be up all night and you're gonna need to adapt on the fly and i think one super cool thing that you're awesome at and was a real drawing thing from me to you, there was a lot of things, but one of them was your ability to perform training programs in a joint friendly way. So I would actually be super interested as to how you approach joint friendly training for dudes over 40 who all suffer with that pain. Shark family, I want to take a quick break. If you are enjoying today's conversation,

I want to invite you to come over to rapidhealthreport.com. When you get to rapidhealthreport.com, you will see an area for you to opt in, in which you can see Dan Garner read through my lab work. Now, you know that we've been working at Rapid Health Optimization on programs for optimizing health. Now, what does that actually mean? It means in three parts, we're going to be doing a ton of deep dive into your labs. That means the inside out approach. So we're not going to be guessing your macros. We're not going to be guessing the total calories that you need. We're actually going to be doing all the work to uncover everything that you have going on inside you. Nutrition, supplementation, sleep. Then we're going to go through and analyze your lifestyle. Dr. Andy Galpin is going to build out a lifestyle protocol based on the severity of your concerns. And then we're going to also build out all the

programs that go into that based on the most severe things first. This truly is a world-class program, and we invite you to see step one of this process by going over to rapidhealthreport.com. You can see Dan reading my labs, the nutrition and supplementation that he has recommended that has radically shifted the way that I sleep, the energy that I have during the day, my total testosterone level, and my ability to trust and have confidence in my health going

forward. I really, really hope that you're able to go over to rapidhealthreport.com, watch the video of my labs, and see what is possible. And if it is something that you are interested in, please schedule a call with me on that page. Once again, it's rapidhealthreport.com, and let's get back to the show. I hate using myself as an example. I never try to talk about myself because A, I'm not exactly a work of art, but I know injuries. So that's one area where I've learned a lot just by, but obviously by working with a lot of people as well. And it's, my whole thing is, is A like the the customer is always right so if someone complains that an exercise hurts i never try to well you're just doing it wrong

like why would i especially working remotely why would i engage in that fight and i would just because there's no point there's no point there's no must-do exercises i can always find an alternative and um but and there are just some movements that they're the risk to reward ratio there's no must do exercises. I can always find an alternative. And, um, but, and there are just some movements that they're the risk to reward ratios. It's not, it's just not worth it. You know, like if I find it, as you get older and it's always the same things, it's always, well, unfortunately it's always a lot of barbell work, you know, um, let's say you can't do a barbell or even go heavy, but it's just you have to

manage that stressor you have to you know include you know maybe do it once one week out of the month or just a very program to program but you know but probably my biggest thing though is i never want my guys working through pain like ever ever as soon as something even feels you know you verify technique but if it's still causing pain you just drop it and that's probably the number one thing people should do they pick up anything it's just never work through pain yeah how do you how do you deal with people that are like well like it's i mean it's not i mean it doesn't it doesn't hurt like it doesn't it's not too bad it's like i don't know two out of ten like it's fine it's

fine it's fine like they're trying to like be tough and and they don't want to puss out so to speak you just tell them nope like it's a zero out of ten or or or it's painful switch it out well yeah you always there's just no advantage to there you know just fighting your way through it because it just never ends well. Especially when there's so many, every other possible alternative will reach the same end, if not very close or probably better. Especially as you get older, if you get into that kind of mindset like, all right, that didn't feel so good. I'm going to try something else.

And you do that right away. And over time, you start developing this menu of exercises that you're comfortable with and that you enjoy doing developing this menu of exercises that you know you're comfortable with and that you enjoy doing you know they work for you and the bigger your menu is as you get older like the less likely you'll develop these pattern overuse injuries that people get you know the person who only benches they only use that one grip and they only use that one you know the people who saw OCD don't use the one type of barbell and it's always nailing that one specific pattern. That's like setting up a recipe

to develop these overuse injuries. Like not with everybody, but for the older you get, the greater that risk is. So is specificity important at all? You know, like you change it up all the time or do you keep things? Oh, yeah. Uh, in a perfect world,

you don't want to, you don't, you never want to have muscle confusion, you know, just total random. Right. But though at the same time, you know,

you never want muscle confusion, but is there a huge difference if your program calls for you to do, you know, seated dumbbell curl and it's starting to feel a little bit off so you do a seated hammer curl okay yeah you are changing you are changing it a little bit you're using more brachioradialis blah blah it's a slightly different stimulus but would you call that muscle confusion like that's not like you went yeah it's like you went from a barbell curl to a i don't know like a freaking plank or something like so it's it's you know it's still curly it's still the mid-range of the movement

it's just a little bit different and if that kind of so i like to encourage that it's tough to program with people um so you try to just give them give them that they can make these kind of options that aren't really big changes like they're they're they're almost irrelevant yeah i would totally agree yeah for the joint friendly training do you have do you like do you prefer exercise selection changes um or method changes because i know you and i have messed around with things like muscle rounds and stuff like that i mean could you talk a little bit about some of the methods or exercise selection variations that you find work better for people

than some of the main compound movements? Yeah, I love muscle rounds. It's from Scott Stevenson. And it's just, it doesn't form a cluster training, but it's using, as you know, it's using sub max loads and you reach a point of failure without ever really feeling like you're, well, you go to the red, but you're not, it's like you're, it's not like max loads and you and you reach a point of failure without ever really

feeling like you're well you go to the red but you're not it's like you it's not like you're going for a true like a an all-out max effort set so it sneaks up on you is the way i like to say it and of course it's easy to chase progression in it from week to week um but stuff like that i find it can complement more traditional loading in a week as opposed to when you can change the stimulus like that, you can get in greater frequency. And I know the hot rage right now is that muscle frequency doesn't matter. And I just disagree. I just think it's just yet another variable that can matter if you don't – if it's a variable you haven't played in a while. Yeah, I think definitely frequency, it's a variable you haven't played in a while so yeah i think

definitely frequency it's hard to say it doesn't matter because even when you look at hypertrophy like uh you can't like let's say that you do everything in one day you only do legs in one day the quality that you're going to get exactly one day it's like so like it doesn't matter it's definitely not looking at the whole picture. Yeah, like I know exactly that argument. And I don't engage in these arguments on the internet because it's too painful. But yeah, you can't tell me that if you're doing 20 sets, or maybe that's extreme.

Say you're doing 12 sets a week for legs, and you're doing it all on Monday. Are you trying to tell me that all that work? I don't, as opposed to splitting it up. Yeah. Right. So, yeah. So first of all, I've seen you engage in arguments on the internet. So don't be saying that you're not engaging in arguments on the internet. Don't act like you're above that. I've seen your tweet wars. So let's just get that out of the way.

I'm also a coward. I do these things where I'll post my shot and then I disappear. I'm like fucking smoke. I do that all the time. I'll post something I know is controversial, but I'm just not going to read anything for a while.

I'm not a Naples coward. My full name is still there, but I just disappear. I really love the muscle rounds kind of approach because I think us creating progressive overload and training, a lot of people purely associate progressive overload with way more weight on the bar every single time, whereas guys in your typical audience and guys like me who are, got beat up joints and stuff like that,

just continuously adding weight to a single lift constantly. It's a way to achieve progressive overload, but it's not always going to be applicable. Whereas something like muscle rounds, if I'm doing quick clusters of something, it's way more joint friendly for me, but I'm still able to achieve

the mechanical tension required for progressive overload to continue in a way that works way better for the body. What is he talking about, muscle rounds? more joint friendly for me but i'm still able to achieve the mechanical tension required for progressive overload to continue in a way that works what is the talk about muscle rounds what is what are muscle rounds uh the way scott stevenson designed it it's it's um using your 12 or i think uses his 10 rep max using your 10 rep max you do six sets of four resting only 10 yeah resting only 10 seconds between sets um and so as you play it out in your head you'll think okay the first set's easy and it is but once you get to set four or five sure yeah and if you if you if your weight selection is good

it's that sixth one that sixth set where you're like you know it's you're in the red but again you're still using you're not using a heavy load while using your 10 rep max for sets of four so even when you're in the red you know it's not that kind of like if you're just going all out for a straight set to max right now i tweak it a little bit i like six sets of six with a 12 rep max i know it's you know probably it's probably no different but i just like a little bit more a little bit more volume but again it's a variable sometimes you know you could change it from program to program just yet another thing you can modify yeah but how do you uh how do you think about uh just like the relative intensity for each workout um and and me

being kind of in this this like specific demographic there's many times that i walk into the gym and i've slept you know six hours or just work has been long uh whatever whatever's going on the idea that i'm going to sit here and be able to get to one rep and reserve for three exercises um you know hitting five sets of each thing and taking each thing as close to failure as possible keeping form and all this stuff. Sometimes I just want to walk over to back squat and like, just sit down and stand up and call it a day. Um, well, does that, well, you can't do that. Cause then you'd have, you'd have to, then you'd have to play with your weights behind you. And we know those for sure. Taking, taking the green ones off and putting them on the wall is part of the volume that i by a total amount of lifting weights no no seriously that's a great and it that's a great

question i wanted to jump in before because it's um it all like it all speaks to context like when dan was talking about progressive overload and it's like okay there's there's more than just adding weight to the bar or adding repetitions and and that chasing that type of overload is like it's not always practical like when you're in that kind of mental state where you're just when you're really fatigued when you're really fatigued or like one of my favorite forms of progressive overload is just did the workout go smoother like did it go faster did you get get a better pump? Did you just get through it and feel, even if you didn't do a single solitary rep more with the same weight in any exercise, but if you went through it and you just felt punchier and you just felt better, to me, maybe I'm wrong.

To me, that's a form of overload. And it typically comes before you get actual gains of the bar. So it's a metric that you can look at. Did the workout go faster, smoother? Do you just feel better when you're done? Obviously, you don't want that to be your only progress metric. But bringing it back to your case, like if you're in a situation where your kids are driving you nuts, you're not sleeping much, it's good to have, like, I like to call them A and B workouts. It's good having a B workout in your back pocket where, all right,

I'm supposed to do this really specific workout, but my mind is just not there. I'm just going to do giant sets. And, you know, you have something kind of planned, but, you know, so you can still kind of chase progression, but it's just you get out of your head more it's just total like like just pump and jump like you're a kid again yeah right have you read any of this stuff from um chris beardley uh he he's like did all this stuff

on hypertrophy of late and he's talking about that like the the only reps that count towards the volume of hypertrophy are like um only like the last five reps of anything you're doing and it has to be at a certain velocity because if you know if the bar is traveling too quickly not enough cross bridges are being formed and so you're not going to get that pertinent so um so he's saying only that counts are the reps that are getting somewhat close to failure, like I think three reps in reserve and under are all that counts. What do you think? Well, he's an expert in the subject, so I would never question his knowledge on it. But I also – I don't look at training that way. Like I don't – even a hypertrophy – even a muscle-building workout.

I don't – to me, there's more – if I go into the gym and if I'm just not there to make – like my head's not right. If I can get a good pump, get that endorphin rush, just get my – get the muscles moving. I think there is a quality – something beneficial that comes from getting a pump. Even if it has nothing to do with hypertrophy, I just think conditioning your muscles, like not every workout is going to be a winner, but if you're in there, I think there's still value to getting a training session because invariably- I think you're completely right. Yeah. I actually want you to dig into that a lot more because one of the questions I wanted to ask was about specifically as you kind of play this game over as long of a timeframe as we have, like we all understand what it's like to be 20 to 30 years old and be able to go just every workout.

You are moving the ball forward a lot. Like everything can be pushed all the way to the edge and you're, you're always going to be able to eat as much as you want. And stress can be relatively, uh, managed. Well, there's a lot of times where I come in and I go, I know I squatted today, but did I do anything? Like I didn't learn the movement any better. I didn't lift any weight that I couldn't have done, like coming out of a deep sleep. Like I know I lifted weights, but what did I actually do? Yeah. And it's, if you have like, yeah, you can kind of set yourself up for failure. Like you're always in that chase,

you know, going to beat my log book mentality. Got to beat my log book. That only can't, you only can't do that consistently, especially as you get busier and older and more beat up. And really, to me, one of the things that's worst as you get older is injuries just take longer to go away. And I'm speaking from experience. I can't do anything with my shoulder right now and if i only maintain this mindset like if i'm not making if i'm not adding another rep if i'm not you know having these super productive workouts it's garbage i'd never fucking work out because it's like yeah so there is value in just going in and and just doing what you can and if you got to keep the weights more manageable then working on really good form like if there are certain like you know i shouldn't have even done this like if like

certain motions are just a no-go then just you know doing what you can with with sub max lows and then yeah the other stuff you hammer then you bomb your legs you know until things kind of improve again i just just, you know, I want to make a point to what he said about doing the pump, you know, Brian man did quite a bit of research when he was in Missouri, where he talked about like at a certain amount of fatigue, he would only do some bodybuilding to trigger that acute hormonal release that possibly aided in his recovery and so like you know you are going

if you do the bodybuilding if you do it properly like you could even do like the um the um blood flow restriction so you're not going to get a lot of damage yeah you don't want to add damage on top of damage but if you just got a little pump like you're talking about i do believe it would help you in your recovery process. Well, and I just, yeah. And I got to get a kick, like, you know,

you know, not only my old, like I, I, when I was a trainer, I was also a writer. So I was just, you know,

it falls deep. And it was always just reading, reading and reading and reading all, not always reading good stuff, but just reading what's in popular culture. And, right. And I remember i used to interview dave tate for a magazine all the time and he made a comment once he's like he's like every 10 he goes

there's a 10-year cycle in this industry he goes and at the time this was about 2005 i was talking to him and he was like and he goes right now everyone's hot on dog crap and rest pause training and he goes and that was popular about you hot on dog crap and rest pause training. And he goes, and that was popular about 20 years ago. And it was popular again about 10 years ago. And he goes, just you wait. He said, because the next thing it's going to be, he says, high volume training. He's going to come back with low fat diets.

And sure enough, he was right. And all this shit just works on this long continuum. But younger people, they don't know. So everything's like it's just all this shit just works on this long continuum yeah but younger people they don't know so everything's like it's like it's their first girlfriend like oh you know you know this is amazing and then all this whereas you get a little bit older you're like i've seen this shit before you know okay and then you start to realize that okay maybe everything works maybe not everything works as well as the other thing. You know, maybe some people are better, you know,

either physiologically or just mentally suited to like low, you know, low volume, like DC type training, maybe other people, it's more, you know, just getting a pump.

And then of course, fucking drugs, you know, not to bring that up, but that kind of, that kind of levels the playing field at a lot of these things. Yeah. So maybe the, everything kind of works to a degree.

And maybe the best thing is just changing your stimulus, especially as you get older and you get more beat up in certain things. Maybe you can't chase that. Not too many guys in their 50s are training like Dorian in Blood and Guts. Yeah. Well, I would love to dig into that too, because you're talking to a group of people and of the five of us, I'm assuming there's about a hundred years of combined training age in here. Um, there, there have to be people that are 40

plus years old coming to you going, I've got no clue how to do this. I've got 30 pounds to lose. And I want to look the best I've ever looked in my life how does that actually translate into their training programs because uh we're playing with a like an error range that is like we can't really mess up at this point we've already got this massive base built uh we're kind of like tinkering with little things over over a 20 plus year time period. If someone comes to you and they're, you know, call it 40 years old and they're going, I'm ready to get in the best shape of my life. And I've never done this before.

How does that mentality and the coaching side of it shift from working with somebody like us to this brand new person that we got to go introduce to fat loss and building muscle. Yeah. I'm so glad you brought that up. Cause that's my number one peeve about the over 40 category is that like, there are people who, you know, someone who could be 45 years old and have 30 years of quality training under them and just be, you know, a fricking beast. Maybe they're a little bit more beat up now. Maybe they't you know they're at the edge of their development man and they've you know pushed the envelope for years and they're and so are you going to compare them to someone who's 45 and he's basically he played soccer when he was a kid and then he became an accountant you know like it's just it's absurd

it's i don't so you know and that's 99 of the people people are the accountants that are just trying to figure out how to get through their office day without someone serving them ice cream. Exactly. And obviously they're at an advantage because even though they'll have less muscle and less training and less used to having this lifestyle where maybe training doesn't come first, but it comes close second um you know so maybe they're they're not as gifted that way they got to learn that but they got all this kind of untapped potential they can do the barbell lifts safely they can you know they can push it they can they can be adding reps and weight every week i look at some of the training logs guys who are just starting out in their 40s i'm like fuck that must be nice you know well you get 10 pounds on a lift in a week well it's pretty good week after week well done you know

so they got those advantages but um what i do with somebody to answer your question like especially if they're brand new is i just look at how much can they logically commit to exercise and they always say okay four or five times a week and that means three times a week you know so i kind of start under just basic movement patterns and load there and always build on competency like if they're kicking ass at three times a week and they're like you know they're showing that they can manage it in their lifestyle and everyone's happy then maybe we'll go to four times or maybe we'll, you know, expand the programming to attack weak points. But it's pretty simple stuff, man. It's just, it's basics and just not overstressing the person. Yeah. What are, what are some of the big levers that you kind of do start to pull? Like when we start to look at things, it's, it's nutrition, supplementation,

just the big buckets, stress, sleep. Why do you kind of break those? What's your, what's your process in breaking those things down really in like an intake and understanding what people's lives look like and, and how to really move forward and like picking the biggest rock first to start with. When I, when I started coaching, I'd have a long intake form and uh like everyone does and i still do but now i if i if i can't get on a phone with somebody um i don't do sales calls i hate that shit but i do coaching calls like if i can't get on a phone

call with someone before i design their program i i have a hard time because i got to hear like what's their daylight okay so what's your number one, what is your commute like? Because if someone's like sitting in their car for 90 minutes, okay, that's going to affect a lot of my programming and it's going to affect, you know, how realistically, how much time they can commit, you know, how do you structure your day? You know, what's your sleep like? And just like, what's your overall stress like? And that is, you know, the busier someone gets the more like lifestyle and sleep and just all these, the way they, way people compensate for stress, things like that,

like that all gets into the mix and doesn't affect the programming I do greatly. Like, I think so. It affects more like how much I expected them and what i think they should expect of themselves so like once i get an idea of what someone's schedule is like what their sleep's like how much time they can commit um yeah i i just probably the biggest thing is i just try not just to overload them and just start, um, do they have, are they capable of even doing the lifts? Like typically people typically need a lot more single limb work. Um, but again, who am I starting with? I mean, I've been a little vague here because I'd have

to see this hypothetical person. Um, I think that you're pretty good, Brian, at pulling out the one thing, like you've talked about that in the past in your content and i feel like your phone calls probably really help you pull out the one thing that actually holds people back yeah well yeah yeah and like covid it was booze like holy shit like i think that was uh that was that was yeah yeah it was it was crazy everyone everyone uh not everyone but there's a there's a there's a large increase in, in alcohol consumption during lockdown. That's for sure. And again, I don't turn myself into a counselor that way, but the more I know, the more I can help, you know, and for most people, their one thing is, uh, is overwhelm. I find like they have too much on the go. They're trying to do too many things and then they take their training and it gets over complicated. Um, and they're reading too much and they're hearing too much. And they got some, somebody at work. Who's always their ear who's doing keto and getting in their kitchen lightweight.

So, um, most normal people, their one thing is overwhelmed. So you just have to start them off. I always start people off with a program I know they can – I know they'll beat it. Like they'll nail it. They'll do it consistently and make gains. I always underestimate them that way so you build that kind of competency. So if it's somebody who could probably get away with four or five times a week, we start them at three. If it's someone who says, I think I can do three, maybe I'll start them at two, that kind of thing. I mean, like two sessions per week. And then we work on,

but obviously working on all the other stuff like nutrition and that's like, like, God, you can talk an hour about nutrition, but, um, and just finding their big holes there for most people, it's just, they just don't know what they're eating like they just they have no clue you know so just getting them like a holistic approach you know like where you like when you have a client are you simply just doing like working out and nutrition are you looking at like stress management lifestyle choices like how broad of an approach do you take well i try not to well i do cover all those things when but i i cover them if they're that's the the bigger problem you know right um you know some people you know especially women can can kind of just get shit done um and

but for them so i focus typically more on just on the food yeah like so it was more on the food and the training um guys it's it's often it's more of the stress and sleep and okay life management life management yeah balancing it all okay and and you know and try to keep them positive because nothing is nothing is worth for a guy. As you give them a program, you know, they know they can do. And, and because their life is busy and they're stressed, they screw it up. Then they feel like dorks and they don't want to,

you know, and they don't want to seem lame and you don't want to be like, give them false positivity. So you have to kind of strike that balance. Like, all right, well, yeah,

I know we can do this program, but you couldn't make that many sessions. And I get it. Cause your job and your kid. So let's work together and scale it back. And, I know we can do this program, but you couldn't make that many sessions. And I get it because your job and your kid. So let's work together and scale it back. And, you know, so it's managing personalities that way. On this whole topic of like managing personalities and lifestyle,

things changing and stuff like that. I'd love to know your thoughts on periodization for busy people over 40. Like, how do you actually zoom out and design mesocycles for periodization? Or do you even do so? Do you kind of just keep strength and hypertrophy in there all the time and change the methods? Or do you actually zoom out and create a phase? That's a great question.

For someone who has so much chaos in their life. Well, the biggest thing I do is, I call it seasonal periodization you know and i just i if i'm blessed to work with somebody that long i'll be like okay well what's your what's your schedule like and invariably people have like well especially when once they have kids in the school system it's it's very easy to predict it's like well we're really busy you know in the in these winter months and then we we have a break at Christmas and then spring. And then, you know, so you can periodize according to the seasons, basically.

And of course, you just adapt the goal to match their lifestyle at the time. So if as a family, OK, they're really, you know, they're really busy, like in the summer and there's lots of things going on outside. Maybe that's when they don't train as much. And maybe then you're working out to doing more, maybe give them an energy system goal or cardio. Whereas in the fall, and that's kind of like the start of the new year for most of us, it's like September, then maybe it'll be much more gym focused and, and chasing, you know, strength and hypertrophy goals but like to answer the nuts and bolts question i typically don't program beyond just the basics of strength and hypertrophy i don't i just don't have that in my clientele someone like i don't have many you know i don't

work with power lifters per se or or real athletes um it's mainly just body composition focused people so that can kind of that's another thing that beardsley mentioned is that periodization might be a broken model it's his point he was like if your goal is to be you know jacked it's to be hypertrophy you know you know why would you want to like do four weeks of tens four weeks of fives it's like you never especially when you understand especially when you've been doing it a while say like me like four weeks is probably not going to create any change because my body now it's it's like so developed and so like it would take longer and so why not why do why four weeks like these are such arbitrary things that we've come up with

that maybe if your only goal is get jacked and strong why would you change maybe just change the methods which is you know what uh dan mentioned so well yeah and and my biggest thing is though okay but you always got to look at the context look at the context first too like okay if you're gonna have these you're gonna have four months where your work is pretty intense but it's manageable you're gonna be at these, you're going to have four months where your work is pretty intense, but it's manageable. You're going to be at home all the time. Your kids are in school. You're going to, the gym's right there.

So you'll be able to train consistently. I mean, to me, okay, that's money time. Okay, that's the focus on. You know, now, okay, oh, now we're in this phase. You're an accountant at tax time. Okay. And, you know, you can be lucky if you make it to the gym twice a week.

Okay, well, maybe this is a time when we'll pull back and we'll work on other things. Like that's how I let – Survive. Yeah. So when I look at programming, I was like, okay, is this practical for the person? Because they're the one paying. I mean, if I want to look all cool, I guess I can design something.

But it's got to work for them, you know. So that's their life. Their context always is the number one determinant where I go. I love your approach. Very simple to the point and common sense. Yeah. I mean, just, well, it just increases consistency. The more I can weave it into someone's life, you know, and they're like, oh yeah, I can

do this. And the more they can get in a pattern, the more they can knock it out week after week, all of a sudden they're, they're sudden, they're just ticking boxes every week. That's when things really start to happen because then stress goes down. This is just how I live. This is just how I eat. It's never a big deal to get to the gym. And, oh, I miss a workout.

Well, coach says, we'll just have to go for a walk anyway. Yeah, I don't make up the workout the next day. No big deal. Stack and stack and wins and then six months of that yeah you know if you can get them to the point where yeah they're not even thinking about it they're just doing it you know that's where you want you just mentioned you just mentioned making up workouts um one thing that i figured out for myself after having kids was if I had a schedule, Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday for strength training or whatever it was, if I missed the Monday workout and then I'm trying to do the Monday workout

and the Tuesday workout on Tuesday or I'm pushing everything forward today and I'm trying to rearrange the schedule of my training, it was always a big hassle. Especially because these days, jiu-jitsu is really my primary athletic pursuit. I'm just trying to stay strong and healthy and feel good for jiu-jitsu is really my primary uh athletic pursuit and so i'm just trying to stay strong and healthy and you know feel good for jiu-jitsu so i go to jiu-jitsu whenever i can which is not always the most consistent depends on what's going on with kids and and what have you so jiu-jitsu always takes priority so my strength training isn't monday tuesday thursday friday or whatever it's just train it's just day one day two day three day four day five day six and i just do them in order then if i don't sleep well then i just do whatever the next workout is the next day

i go i switch it out i go for a bike ride i go for a walk or i go to jiu-jitsu or i take a day off i just do my strength training workouts in order but i don't have a set a set routine as far as the exact days during the week that i need to perform the strength training sessions on have you ever played with anything similar yeah i did that's the way to program in my opinion like that's real practical programming because you're still you're still getting the work done you know at the end of the at the end of the month i'm sure you're still hitting most or all of your sessions without having that mental confinement okay this day i gotta okay you know just like these oh it's chest and back day gotta make sure i do that oh no i you know now i gotta do shoulders and arms the next day but can i do these on back-to-back days i always get that

question like people get so hamstrung by like they where their other training days are set up so you have to when you have that kind of fluidity like you have that allows you to kind of settle in and just get things done and so i track monthly sessions yeah yeah so because if i i have a tracker app where i it just there's a check box it says yes no did i train that day and i can look at my strength training days and i track all kinds of other stuff too but i'll look at it and it'll have like it'll be like four days a week, five days a week, three days a week, six days a week, five days a week.

It's like, it's not, it's not super consistent, but if I look at monthly, monthly, it usually shakes out to 20 ish workouts. Yeah. If you're, and that's, that's how the body looks at it. I know it sounds terribly unscientific, but when you have to zoom out and take a big picture look at things. And if you're stacking your wins for the month, that's the way to focus on it. And I find people get way too much in the weeds of like, you know, what am I doing over this three-day period?

And so if you could have kind of a much more of a big picture approach like that, it's way more successful. Unless this is your life. When you're 19 years old, you work eight hours a week as a bouncer and all you do is lift weights and eat and sell steroids. You could have the most awesome...

Powerlifting. There you go. Everyone on this call nodded like, I know that guy. One you go everyone on this call nodded like i know that guy one of them's on this call yeah you know you know so that's it but what i like about your approach too is though is it sounds kind of let's say fair like oh i'm not thinking about it but now you can go at the end of the month and go you know i

missed shit i missed four strength sessions i missed one strength session a week that's not acceptable like where can i you know where can i adjust things do i pull back on jujitsu well no you said that was your focus maybe that's not going to happen you know then you ask yourself okay is this always going to be my focus or am I getting beat up or am I whatever? Am I going to go back to focusing on strength for a bit and pull back on jiu-jitsu? And then you can kind of adjust things accordingly. So that's why I like that system is because you can always just – you don't get too caught up in the here and now, but you still audit things and just see, okay, am I meeting my commitments? Okay, what's not happening?

Yeah. things and to see okay am i meeting my commitments okay what what's not happening you know yeah yeah i found once i started doing that like the my stress about did i train or not it's like it all kind of completely evaporated i just knew that most days of the week i was training and doing something and again i don't have like any like super specific strength goals outside of just being able to go to practice and feel good and not not be too hurt so i'm in a different a different situation than, as you said, someone who's, who has an event coming up or a competition or what have you, but for anyone else out there that has multiple kids and runs, runs a company or maybe more than one company and a wife and kids and family commitments and all that, like it it's a, you got plenty of stress. You don't need to, you don't need your workouts to be stressful. Your workouts are supposed to be the opposite, which is also one thing that, that I found

after having kids was that my workouts weren't just about gaining muscle and getting stronger anymore. It was about like that, that me time, just like get out, especially with COVID, but get the fuck out of my house, go have fun, do the thing I'm passionate about and just enjoy myself. But like the mental health aspect of it was something I didn't really care about when I was in my twenties, because I was already having fun all the time. And then now I'm in my forties and I have, you know,

many obligations and, and working out is the one thing, you know, with jujitsu as well, that lets me kind of escape from the, the day-to-day stressors of life. And I can just, just do my thing and,

and enjoy and enjoy myself. Well, yeah, that's the other thing I like about that approach is that if you kind of cultivate this, okay, every day I do something like every day i do something and you know if i'm feeling great i i i weight train if my schedule falls apart okay maybe i go for a walk but every day i do something every day i do something that is such a strong mental health tool you know because that's like that's your time that's your like yeah you know you know

self you can say it's self-improvement time i just think it's just this this it's the way it's the way most of us meditate i think is like through training you know maybe it's not i know it's not meditation so don't yell at me but it's like it's it's our our time to like focus on ourselves and focus and get rid of some demons, so to speak, or even just unplug, get outside, get away from people. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Stephen Collar wrote that book, Stealing Fire, where the whole book is essentially about using extreme physical activities to automatically presence yourself, which in this is not the only thing meditation is for, but it's meditation in many ways is the practice of of consciously being present there's other

benefits to specifically meditating over just working out and being present because you're working out i don't want to say it's the exact same thing but you do automatically get presence if someone's trying to strangle you you're in the moment you're not you're not thinking about your bills or or the fact that you're your technology that you're trying to to sign on to with your business is is clunky or whatever you're thinking about that you're trying to sign onto with your business is clunky or whatever you're thinking about. Like you're in the moment, just doing your thing

and you are not thinking about anything else except for trying not to be strangled. Well, it's that one part of your day where you're kind of like, you're seizing control of it. Cause like our life is so reactive. Again, especially when you have kids, like you're just reacting to their drama

and to their whatever. So this is your one moment every day. Okay, well, this is my thing, you know, focus on doing this, whether it's going for a walk, whether it's, you know, whether it's weight training or whatever, this is your one little thing where you're kind of like, okay, I'm doing this for myself. It's for me. Kind of like taking a little bit of power back into your life. Because I can't imagine a life where I didn't get to do that at least once a day where it's just where I think, okay, I'm investing myself here. I'd go postal. So I think it's that if you can kind of then encourage some flexibility in your approach that you always get this time every day, whether it's doing something. And then at the end of the month, you audit

whether what you did was all that productive. But you still do that once a month or that once a day thing where you invest in yourself, take a little bit of control and just get out of the reaction zone. I think it's the best way. So I always try to build a plan that will encourage that. You have that one thing every day. So, yeah. Yo, can we dig in real quick with with what you

and Dan have been doing together? Dan, obviously, you could program for yourself if you chose to you have the skills to do that. How has what you've been doing with Brian been different than what you would have likely done for yourself? Um, that's an awesome question, man. I'm always a huge fan of having a coach, no matter what my skill set is. I think that I should have a coach in training, a coach in nutrition, a coach in finance, a coach, you know, in no matter what it is in business development, I think everybody should always have a coach for everything. Because I know what it looks like when someone tries to program their own nutrition, who's not in the game. It looks atrocious. It's terrible. Or if someone tries to design their own training program

and bless their heart, it's terrible. So I just, I know I've had firsthand experience, like all of us, we've all been to social events. And how many times at social events do people come and tell you what their training and nutrition is? It totally unpted it always freaking happens and it's the worst like uh yeah it's like what's supposed it's part of uh signing up to be a fitness coach that you don't know you signed up for listen to everybody else's workout program yeah yeah and they're terrible and you're put in this situation where you're listening to this atrocious thing being listed out. While they're hammering. So you're like, oh, yeah, cool.

Love it, man. Cheers. Or even better, like you said the other day, where you're stuck sitting next to somebody on an airplane. You tell them what you do, and then you're just stuck. Then you've got three hours to go. I never tell them. Interesting. Yeah, I've actually evolved.

I've told people now on planes that i'm a painter and then uh and it's also i don't paint like artistic stuff no i just paint walls so like that's that's actually what i say now when somebody asks me because if i say that i'm in strength and conditioning or health all they do is ask me questions or tell me what they're doing so now i'm a painter and no one gives a fuck so it's fantastic white walls just white yeah i've yeah i've said that a bunch now. Like that's a norm. My heart rate doesn't even raise

when I lie to people about that anymore. But in any case, I think you should have a coach for everything to remove your own biases and just to get outside eyes, the value of outside eyes and keeping you in check. Like if I had wine

and Brian's like, come on, dude, or if I'm traveling a bunch and he's going to program the right things or give me a certain approach to it. And even in my own programming, I am predisposed to beating up my own joints. I know that I love going heavy. I love the basic movements. You just can't kind of take the meathead out of me that in that way so having someone else have the reins has been huge man and uh brian's done an amazing job my joints feel great i feel great um my stress is super low been able to stick to the plan because he's made it realistic and uh i'm ready for this thing i'm ready i feel good awesome yeah you really uh yeah you really turned it on. I mean,

that's, uh, cause I've been, I'll be, I'll be honest. Like when he was asking about coaching, I was like, I don't think you need me guy. I think you're pretty good on your own. Um, but just for the same reasons that I got a coach is that I, if I just, you know, well, right now I'm a little bit different. I have to program for myself cause everything fricking hurts. But, um, but that's exactly why i needed to coach earlier because now everything freaking hurts because we always just do the things we like um so with him uh just yeah just finding just his lower back mainly is that i've always been watching i don't that's rule number one is you never want to injure somebody i mean things

happen especially as you get older but you know that's if you're that's rule number one is keep the person upright and um and for him to just hold him back hold him back yeah the lower back has been an ongoing thing for me and i also a huge part of having a coach is just removing decision fatigue too yeah i feel like i already make enough decisions every day. And at the end of the day, I don't know if I have the willpower strength in me to remove my own bias from all those situations. I just want someone else to make those decisions for me.

So I stay on track. Yeah. Brian, where can people learn more about you? Well, right now, man, I'm trying trying to think do i still have my blog i do still have a blog it's you do i went and checked it out okay good that's good it's still up good okay it's um i'm mainly on instagram but um and i have a newsletter that you can sign up for though and that's at brian kron.com so that's b-r-y-a-n-k-r-A-H-N.com. And I think I have a link to my newsletter on Instagram too, but I'll have to check that.

Do you have any, Travis Mash, tell the people where they can find you. Mashlead.com or Instagram, Mashlead Performance and Twitter. If you want to see me argue, Mashlead. All right.

There you go. Brian, do you have any speaking events coming up? I know that you and Allie Gilbert were doing some stuff together. Are you speaking anywhere soon? Yeah, I'm speaking at her Silverback Summit, the virtual one. I'm actually going to record that later today. There you go.

Yeah, and I think she's doing an in-person event in the fall in Texas, I believe. Fantastic. Dan Garner. All right. You can find me at Dan Garner Nutrition. she's doing an in-person event in uh in the fall in texas i believe fantastic so dan garner all right you can find me at dan garner nutrition but everybody brian's an absolute man my experience has been unreal with this dude and i plan on burning right through this competition and staying with him so he's the absolute man i follow him on instagram his posts are awesome. So go follow this dude. There you go. Doug Larson. Bet. Brian, I've seen you bouncing around the internet for quite some time.

So very cool to finally meet you and appreciate you coming on the show, man. I really enjoyed this. It was great. Thanks for having me. Bet. You can find me on Instagram at Douglas E. Larson. There we go. I'm Anders Varner at Anders Varner. We are Barbell Shrugged, Barbell underscore Shrugged.

Make sure you get over to rapidhealthreport.com. That is where you can see Dan Garner and Dr. Andy Galpin doing a lab lifestyle and performance analysis, which everybody inside Rapid Health Optimization will receive once we get through our big intake process and reading labs and all that fun stuff. So get over to rapidhealthreport.com. Friends, we'll see you guys next week.