Barbell Shrugged - Position, Movement, and Purpose with Carl Paoli - 274

Episode Date: August 23, 2017

This week, we spoke with movement expert and all-around badass Carl Paoli (Instagram and Twitter: @carlpaoli), coach and author of Free+Style: Maximize Sport and Life Performance with Four Basic Movements. Carl explains his Three Tricks to be jacked as hell, using his own Free+Style connection framework of position, movement, and purpose. Carl’s varied background has informed his path, leading him from gymnastics; breakdancing (yes); his athletic shoe business, Strike Mvmnt; and of course, functional fitness. Despite being a jack of all trades, he’s humble and doesn’t profess to be an expert, instead saying he’s a constant student. Carl’s built a reputation by keeping things simple and clear, and by remaining compelling. This got people to do the things he taught – and suddenly, he was called a guru and became The Movement Guy. Although he was successful, Carl felt expectations were too high, yet his true potential was not met. Two years ago, like the Renaissance man that he is, he disassembled and reorganized his life to begin an epic journey of self-awareness. Ultimately, he found a way to feel fulfillment without “being there” yet. Also discussed in this week’s episode: how coaching is equal parts engineering and artistry, and how ultimately he’s still “just a guy trying to figure it out.” The bottom line from Carl this week: Just do. Don’t worry about what happens, and whatever you learn from that, take that next step. This will give you the mindset to give you the freedom to do. This Week on Barbell Shrugged, We Interview Carl Paoli to Discuss: Carl’s freestyle connection framework of position, movement, and purpose The distinction between being the best and feeling fulfilled at the box Making sure your WOD is safe, useful, and long-lasting Making it all, in Carl’s words, “crispy clean”

When you know something about a certain thing, you think you have arrived and you have created your path. You have a lane. And if you cross paths with some people and cross lanes, they become agitated and nervous and like, you're stealing from me and what's going on? Like, that's not your method. That's my method. And it now becomes reactive. Welcome to Barbell Shrugged. I'm Mike Bledsoe here with my partner in crime, Doug Larson. And we're going to interview Carl Paoli today. And we're going to give you the three tricks. Is it three tricks?

Was it tricks? Doug is the one that does. Cool tricks. Cool tricks. Three ways. What kind of clickbait can we throw out right here? Three ways. Three cool tricks to be jacked as fuck like Carl.

Yes. Look how jacked he is. Oh, my God. We are going to get to some pretty big points that we've mapped out already, hopefully. 100%. We're really prepared. Yeah. We have been planning to plan.

We've been preparing for a couple hours now, I think. An hour and a half at least. Actually, we have. Yeah. That's the most I've ever prepared for anything. This is the longest preparation we've ever had. Yeah. So we are going to dig into movement.

Your philosophy is on movement. You have your freestyle connection framework is what the joke about the three sexy tricks or whatever the hell we just called it is. Right. Which one are those? Just so we can tease it and then we'll get back to it here in a minute after we kind of go through your story. For sure, for sure. What are we going to tap into? We're going to tap into movement, which is kind of the language. We're going to tap into purpose, which is the direction we're going to tap into? We're going to tap into movement, which is kind of the language. We're going to tap into purpose, which is the direction we're going into. And then we're

going to talk about position. And I guess that's the chemistry of movement or it's breaking it down into little letters and little words. You've given it all away now. Yeah. So that's what's going to happen. The secrets are out. The secrets are out. Write the book, guys. Go write the book. Become a New York Times bestseller. Actually, that should have been the title. How to become a New York Times bestseller without being a writer.

There you go. Do you not consider yourself a writer? I am. Are you a writer? Yeah, of course. I write text messages. I did actually write a book. I type with three, six fingers, I think.

I still don't have a good. You can't type, six fingers, I think. I still don't have it. You can't type with all your fingers? No, I can't. And I look at the keyboard, too. And I'm not embarrassed to say it. I'm not the best typist. I took typewriting class when I was in junior high, and then it just didn't stick. I feel like I should have done it.

I don't know. I managed to, you know, like that, and then I kind of like crossed some time. Cross over the hand. That's a long way to write a book because your book is like a textbook. It's a big book. It is a big book. 450 pages almost. Mostly pictures. Mostly pictures. 3,000.

That's the type of book I like to read. Yeah, they're great. So we figured out two and a half years ago. We were hanging out at Princeton Yeah, and how did we all get invited there? I don't know but uh, oh my It was the endurance it was an endurance seminar an endurance conference Princeton University in actually I was joking. Okay. You remember. I did not remember. I can remember.

Oh, yeah. What was it? What? See, you don't remember. I do remember that we recorded like in Einstein's classroom or something like that. Something along those lines. I don't even know if that's the right person, but it was like someone's famous room. It was Einstein's.

Yeah. It was his lecture hall. Oh, yeah. I guess he had given a lecture there yeah that's pretty incredible yeah so that's amazing what is what's been going on in Carl's life in the last two and a half years well I think it since we last saw each other I I had just released the book which was really exciting because at that time it had just hit the New York Times bestseller list and it was it was cool and I remember you asking me that day uh hey how's the book and I was like fuck the book I was so burnt out I was just burnt out of the book and I I just couldn't couldn't really focus on it so at that time it was a very interesting time in my life

because I was just becoming a parent. My wife and I, we became foster parents, and then we went into the process of adopting our now daughter. And in the process of doing that, of course, a lot was happening. kind of build our family and me trying to run my business outside and having this book that was supposedly this great accomplishment, I had so many balls in the air that I was just lost. And honestly, I was also feeling pretty unhappy. I just wasn't feeling very, very good. So something that I had started maybe a year and a half before that, which was in 2013, we were just talking, I had started really just disassembling my whole life and my career and trying to cut all the fat and begin this next chapter in my life,

whatever that was, which was building a family and then trying to figure out who I was within the CrossFit community, for example, or the movement world. And actually, just to add context, for someone who doesn't even know who you are, who were you before that? Where did you come from? All the gymnastics stuffad stuff and and etc if someone doesn't know that you're a movement expert who who are you yeah i i wouldn't say i'm an expert uh at anything uh i am a student for sure

but the whole gymnastics expert knowledgeable usually say really yeah well once you get to the point where you know you don't know it all, like you've crossed over, that's a good place to be. Yeah, it's really uncomfortable. It's like, why am I in this interview right now? Why am I talking to you guys? But, yeah, the whole gymnastics thing was because I grew up doing gymnastics. Eventually, I got into action sports. In action sports, I saw that there was a big transfer of abilities from the world of gymnastics into these tricks that they do in

action sports. And then from there, I found that fitness was important. And then I found CrossFit. And within CrossFit, there was this thing called gymnastics, which was very basic push-ups and pull-ups, and I just happened to have the language and the right knowledge and be in the right place at the right time, saying it the right way where people could relate, and that kind of gave me some sort of voice, and CrossFit became like the megaphone. And that led eventually to writing

the book, which is called Freestyle. And the book was basically a product of me trying to answer the questions that were coming my way. And that's kind of the back end of things. So as that was happening, that happened so fast. It was, you know, I became a big fish in a small pond. And all of a sudden I was the cool kid. And here comes Carl, the cool kid who knows everything and is supposed to bring you something that you're going to find valuable and is going to change your life and you're going to perform at the highest level and he is going to help you he's he's the man kind of thing sounds like a little bit of pressure yeah i was gonna say is that overwhelming for sure there was a lot

of pressure and and i was like i'm not even doing the things that I'm recommending. Because I didn't really, I didn't have to. I felt like they were so basic that I didn't have to. So there was just a lot of dissonance. I was like, I'm saying this thing, and I'm doing this other thing. There's something there that just does not feel right. What were you saying and what were you doing that was different? Well, I guess what i was saying was practice a lot practice every day make this a lifestyle you know make this a very simple digestible habits

and if you just go step one and two and three you're going to get from here to there and you're going to live you know happily ever after and the truth is I wasn't happy and I had kind of done those things and the results weren't there. There was just something that wasn't really connecting. And what I realized is that all along I had been trying to tell people, hey, don't let other people's thinking limit yours. But I was limiting myself with my own thoughts and the people that I was surrounded by and thought, oh, this is how you have to do it. And all it was, was me trying to keep up with my own speed of growth. And that eventually, I could sense that it was going to crash. And before that crash came, I basically just pulled back. And that was the last time we saw each other.

And since then, I became fully invested in Strike Movement, which is a footwear and apparel company. And I love it. We have a great product. It's a great company. At the end of the day, it's like we're selling shoes, okay? Who cares? Who really cares? I love the shoe.

Yeah. Hunter loves the shoe. You know, he's wearing it. And it's cool. It's like I'm proud of this product. But for what, right? And that was the question that really was with me for what, for what strike movement, for what freestyle, for what the book. And, uh, and that's what I've been

kind of sitting on for probably three years now. It's for what all this, why, why are we having this conversation? Well, so we can, you know, maybe share something that allows people to ask themselves the same question and when you do that you start doing the work the work that really matters and that may sound vague but that's that's kind of where we're at and and um so during these three years i've been really working strike movement to make sure that I am the best ambassador I can be. I'm the best support system I can be in terms of getting the business where it has to be, the brand where it has to be, the product where it has to be. And just be eyes and ears and and in a voice, and then, like I was telling you guys over coffee earlier, it's, just last month, I had this moment in Bali, where I was like, I fucking love my life, I love being

alive, I just love it, and I want to live every day, like, I was living, you know, surfing that day or, uh, whatever. And, and I think that's, that's where now I'm kind of just like, work with what you got. You have an opportunity to have a conversation, have a conversation. And when you have it, something comes out of it, whatever comes out, use that for something, whatever it may be and and and try to build something and that's that's where I'm at so what happened in Bali on that day that that helped you have that realization I think what that was was when when I was out surfing and there was this big storm and all of a sudden all the waves kind of disappeared and there was this beautiful lightning and the horizon, and I realized I was hanging out with all these surfers, and we were just sitting there in silence,

watching the lightning and the rain falling. It was this moment of sharing this super simple thing that is nature and just realizing how lucky I was to be there in that moment and just that appreciation which is something that doesn't require an epic storm and a beautiful thing for it to happen, just came up a little bit more. And it was kind of like, take a second to appreciate what is right now. And things start to feel different. So I think that's what really happened in Bali. And what that gave me was just this reinforced sense of the thing that you set out to change when you were a kid

and when you wanted to be a gymnast is the same thing you're setting out to do right now. It's just the vehicle looks different. Yeah. So just kind of remember why you started. You'll know how to finish. Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of times people they they see someone online

whether whether whether someone who's like super big like a big movie star and they have millions of followers or whether someone more like ourselves or we have we have tens of thousands of followers we're kind of like you said earlier like we're a big fish in a small pond that type of thing and they they idealize those people thinking that this person must have their every part of their life much must just be great and that's not necessarily the truth, of course. We're normal people that have struggles and challenges. And even with respect to fitness, there's times where I might not want to train,

even though I fucking love training. It's just a part of being a human being that sometimes you're super motivated and other times you're not quite as motivated. So in your case, I know you've had some ups and downs over the last couple of years. How's ups and downs over the last you know a couple years how's your training been over the last couple years have you been motivated have you

have you gone up down where were you yeah that's another thing is that the thing that I was saying was train and I was not training I was not feeling it my body hurt I felt uncomfortable I was not training and I probably didn't train consistently for maybe two years. And it was at the beginning of this year, 2017, I reached out to a friend, Angel, who owns Telegraph CrossFit in San Francisco. And I was like, I need help. I need someone to just tell me to come in or meet with them and just tell me that it's okay. Just say it's going to be okay and just try a little bit and to give me that safe space. And he did that. He allowed me to come in as a member and he protected, I don't think he even knows that he did this.

And if he's listening right now, I need him to know that he protected me from myself and allowed me to get out of my own way. And he protected me from this thing that maybe in the CrossFit community people think I am that is my biggest limiter and that that right there uh was what allowed me to just kind of start really slowly and start working out again and having something really simple like a CrossFit workout that you know says 21-15-9 thruster pull-up but be able to approach it with the knowledge that i actually have the understanding that i have without becoming or trying to be the crossfit thing and redefining intensity redefining what a thruster or a pull-up is redefining what being strong is and fit is and that really going back

to the things that i've been saying for so many years which is like true human performance can only be measured by feel it's like okay now fucking do it start feeling and it's been wonderful so right now although my numbers are not where they used to be or my capacity uh from an outside perspective is not what it used to be i'm the fittest i've ever been right now and i feel amazing and it's uh it's a wonderful place to be would you say uh the temptation when being reintroduced to fitness so like or into a training environment and uh i think we've all experienced this to some degree. I've taken time off where I may be physically active, but I'm not training. Or we get hurt at times, and then we have to take, you know,

if someone has a back injury, pretty much, I mean, you might be able to train your grip or something like that, but it's, it's people get taken out of the game either by choice or, or by injury or something like that. And getting back in can be really difficult. And I think there's this expectation, you know, when you, when you walk into a box with expectation of how you're supposed to perform from that, that outside perspective that fucks people up. It really does. Would you say that was what you needed protecting from?

Huge. I mean, I would show up at gyms around the world when I would go for seminars, and if I would drop in to do a workout, for some reason they'd be like, oh, you should be like Rich Froning. You should be like the best in the world. I'm like, I'm just a coach. It's like I don't train six hours a day that that's not what i do but that expectation that people put on you is so huge that it it's almost like you feel like you need to like tell them you know i'm gonna go a little

lighter you have to explain yourself like fuck that would you say that's an expectation you're having of yourself? 100%. Nobody may be judging you in the whole room, and it's just like your personal perception of, oh, they're going to think that I'm not great if I don't put that weight on the bar. It's all me. It's interesting how it happens in the CrossFit space like that,

where if you played football your whole life and now you're a football coach, like nobody expects you to go out on the practice field and be able to fucking slam into somebody at 100 full speed and do that all day long and be able to run a 4-4 and and be able to like squat 600 pounds like you're not a football player anymore you're a football coach now and yeah you know you understand football and you know the plays and you understand how to do it you can teach someone else how to do it but you're not the athlete anymore and that's where that's where a lot of crossfit coaches are now where they're they are coaches and they stay relatively fit, and they're concerned about their general health.

But as you said, they don't train six hours a day anymore. But the expectation is if you know a lot, then you should be a super athlete, even if that's not your primary concern anymore. Your primary concern is coaching other people potentially, and that's where you put the majority of your effort. And then as far as, like in my example, like my own training, it's pretty normal. It's like an hour a day. I'm not a pro athlete. I train an hour a day, and the rest of the time I'm running my company or taking care of my two kids, and I stay in pretty good shape. Yeah.

Is that similar in your case? 100%. And I think there's several layers to this it's complicated right uh it's like uh the guy is his name tommy the guy that owns this place yep so when he he's like hey do you want to roll around i was like i kind of do but i don't you know You know? It's not my jiu-jitsu, by the way. Jiu-jitsu. Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right. Paul's from San Francisco. That's right.

He's down. We like to roll around. But he was asking if I wanted to do some jiu-jitsu. I was like, sure. But at the same time, I'm like, oh, no, now I have to be uncomfortable again. It's like, oh, this thing, and there's this expectation. Like, he just said, oh, with your background, you'll be great. You're like, fuck.

Right. Why do you have to say that? Yeah. Now I have like live up to that right but it's fine that's all me you know well this is an interesting conversation because we're talking to you carl somebody who has a vast background in athletics coaching uh and i think people might be surprised that you're having this experience and i think that everyone is having this experience to some degree and they they're afraid to get in the gym or they're experiencing some level of you know like they're psyching themselves out intimidation whatever it is because they don't feel like they're good enough in some way and so they don't they don't go into the gym because of that feeling and it shows up it's not because they're super well known in the space and they have people have all these expectations they have that feeling because of something else

but i think it can be comforting to a lot of people to know that you're also experiencing that i've experienced that where i went from being really competitive in weightlifting to you know being injured and then deciding i'm not going to compete anymore and then losing a lot of weight and then going, wow, you know, like if I'm not squatting, you know, four or five hundred pounds, who am I? Right. know if I want to highlight what I'm doing for training right now because it is not nearly as sexy as you know the squatting weight when it was like you know bouncing on the board that doesn't happen anymore I don't squat like that anymore and because you know we've we've been through this process of training for 20 years or whatever it is it's just like yeah now it's about being healthy and safe and feeling good and being optimal for our entire life. And that focus isn't on like what's going to happen on the competition floor or even in a CrossFit, you know, workout where there's eight other people and we're seeing who can pose the best time.

Right. Yeah. And it's it's I tell everyone I'm like, I'm just a guy trying to figure it out. And I think an experience that I had that was really positive within the fitness training space that goes along the way of expectation and a little bit of what we were just discussing was when I met Ido Portal in Berlin. I had lunch with him. And I knew of him and I kind of knew his practice. And I was curious. So we met up and I asked the questions and I let him talk. And I was pretty quiet. But after that lunch, what I realized was that this guy was, when it came to training and movement, he was a purist. It was about the physical practice. And yes, there was the emotional, psychological side

of things that's there. But when it came to movement, he was the guy. Like, this is the guy. And I instantly felt this sense of relief. I don't want, I don't have to be that guy. I'm like, I'm so glad I don't need to be the movement guy. And it felt so. Was it like, oh, he's got it covered?

Yeah. So now I can go be myself? Exactly. It's like, he's the guy and I'm so glad he can be the guy so I can just be,

you know, the beta male over here. And do my own thing. Yeah. and then, so that was a very positive thing. And I thought that that was a solution to just be like, Oh, put the, put the load on someone else. Right. Like just let someone else do it. And you just kind of like hide and, and, and kind of cover yourself up. And then I realized, okay, you have a strength, Carl. And your strength is you are really good at absorbing information and gaining knowledge and then filtering out all the stuff that's getting in your way

and gaining just enough understanding. So in context, you can have a conversation or you can practice and do something that's going to get you somewhere and in training in in the crossfit space that's exactly what i was doing i was basically just eating up information that was coming from all these different directions and filtering out the most important things and saying it in a way that was simple, clear, compelling, and that got people to do the things. So all of a sudden, I became a guru, and Carl is the movement guy.

And that was funny, and I was like, well, why am I still feeling uncomfortable with this whole thing? And as I went further along, it's because when you know something about a certain thing, you think you have arrived and you have created your path. You have a lane. And if you cross paths with some people and cross lanes, they become agitated and nervous and like, you're stealing from me and what's going on like that's not your method that's my method and it now becomes reactive you know what when these other guys started podcast man i got really bent out of shape over it you're right yeah i have the fitness podcast what the hell and i think now looking back it's like I could see that coming, that that was the reactivity that was coming. And I wasn't prepared to have the conversation to say, don't worry, I'm just in passing.

Your lanes are going that direction. I'm going that way. Yeah. And I'm glad we crossed paths. Well, it's impossible for, for you just stay parallel with somebody anyway. Right. It would be not a very fulfilling way to live your life. And imagine what it would be like to cross a road that, you know, has heavy traffic without looking, just being like, okay, I'm just going to walk across. You don't know what's going to hit you. That fear is paralyzing. And that's what I had. And that's what it is like to jump into a gym. It's like, okay, I'm about to

get into a very busy place with a lot of activity. How am I going to navigate this? And I think that's where the awareness of being able to navigate what's happening in a gym, whether you're coming in to do some weightlifting or gymnastics or CrossFit or whatever it is you care about in terms of your fitness, being able to navigate it is everything. And the way that you start navigating it, your compass starts with your ego. And so many people say, you know,

leave your ego at the door. But it's like, if you don't have your ego, you can't actually make decisions. Like your ego is the axis on which your moral compass spins. Yeah. It's just you just can't become the ego, right? It's the relationship with the ego you have to watch. Yeah. So it's how can you have your own individualized practice within this universal prescription that is bodybuilding or

weightlifting or powerlifting or whatever it may be so you can feel fulfilled and i think that's uh i think that's why i'm talking to you guys today actually yeah you're talking about like i want to cover this and get in this a little bit is when you intersect paths with somebody who might be considered a master yeah so like not just anybody is going to sit down with ito portal like right you know not just anybody out there can email him be like oh i'll grab lunch with you in berlin like that's not going to happen um so you you you've achieved some type of notoriety or you've become a certain level of coach or something like that to to be able to have that access to different people.

And I think that a lot of people see that and go, oh, that person's arrived. They look at a point where somebody else is at and goes, oh, once you're there, you've arrived. And the truth is you have to go further. And by going further, again, it can't be parallel to that person you have to meet that person and then keep going if you're ever going to reach mastery yeah and i think that's the beauty of our three tricks that we're going to talk about today which is position movement and purpose this is the essence of purpose Purpose can be redefined and is ever-changing, but it needs to be acknowledged daily.

It needs to be a purposeful practice. You need to be aware of your practice, and you need to pay attention to how you're feeling when you're practicing, before, during, and after. And I think that is the essence of purpose. And I think what this really does is it pulls us back to, okay, now what is the practice? That's your movement.

What language are we speaking right now? Are we speaking English? Are we speaking gymnastics? We're speaking weightlifting. And it's really now, and I think for the listener, anyone who's listening to this is because they're probably curious at some level, right? And they're seeking something. And they're hoping that through this conversation, something is going to be said that's going to be like, oh, fuck, I'm enlightened.

You know, like, I figured it out. The secret is that it's in front of us and the sooner we just do the more we'll feel and the more we feel and acknowledge what we're feeling the more we can start processing what that is and then the the most difficult part is taking what it is that we're feeling the things that are coming out of our practice and then trying to reapply them to it. So someone like Hunter, who's filming right now, is like, oh, that press to handstand that I wanted to get, that I've been trying so hard and obsessing about, I already have it. It just doesn't look the way that I have in my head.

And once I accept that, all of a sudden, you arrive. Purpose and movement really meet together. And once I accept that, all of a sudden, you arrive, kind of thing. Purpose and movement really meet together. And I know that sounds crazy right now. Would you say something like, I see a press the handstand,

it's something I want to do, it's something I'm working towards. And if I'm focused on that, I'm never going to get there. Pretty much. It's a byproduct of the fundamentals. Yeah, It's like, okay, I wanted to go to the Olympics. I begin my direction to training towards the Olympics.

I fall short. I didn't make it. I'm disappointed. I had the expectations of being at the Olympics, winning the Olympics. Okay. I'm disappointed. Why am I disappointed? Well, because I didn't meet my goal. I didn't hit that press to handstand. But without setting that direction, I would have never even started. I would have never even learned the little thing that I learned on the way over to achieving the thing. And I think that's important.

But then there's this other side. It's like, what is it I was chasing by going to the Olympics? What is it I was really chasing by getting the press to handstand? Well, it was a certain feeling, some sort of feeling of satisfaction. And I may have told this story here on the show before, but the feeling of satisfaction that I was looking for was standing on the podium, getting the medal, looking up at the stadium, celebrating the flowers, flashing lights, the whole thing. And then I thought, OK, what would happen after that? Well, I would get off the podium. I would take the medal off.

That moment would be kind of done. But then I would want to go and kind of relax and hang out with family and friends. What would happen if I didn't have family and friends to hang out with and I was totally alone? Well, that moment would have meant nothing. So this whole process, everything that I learned, I would have been left alone with nobody to share that with. And what now? Right? So if one can, in this moment realize that the feeling that we're chasing exists within us and learn to feel that in this moment all of a sudden we have that sense of fulfillment and satisfaction in our practice and it translates into my physique looking different my brain thinking different me

feeling different and that's the hardest part about training. And that's why I can tell you to do like, here's a fucking push-up with your elbow on top of your wrist, or whatever stupid thing that we say that is very valuable, but that's just the bridge to feeling a certain thing. So if I can help you be mindful of how you are practicing, all of a sudden by doing something as simple as a push-up i'm getting you closer to the thing that you want or maybe need actually um and you feel in fulfillment without even being there yet yeah yeah I we've had the the experience well or the we've been in a unlikely position to meet with some of the best coaches in the world and one of the things I've noticed is

the difference between a coach that's got that's at that mastery level or has a over a decade of experience under their belt is what you're describing right now like the the inexperienced coach is hyper focused on the movement is your elbow over your wrist that kind of thing and then after after a certain level of experience the coach goes oh that it sounds like you've crossed over right so i would recommend people listen to car Carl because there's – for somebody who may not be quite grasping what you're talking about, this is a common trend that I'm seeing with the very experienced coaches that's happening is they're looking at the –

I guess the human aspect of what's happening versus like the mechanics of things. Right. And it's a beautiful thing. And I'm not saying don't focus on the mechanics because without the mechanics, you don't have the hardware. Yeah, you have to go through that first. You have to. And it's not that you have to, it's what's available in front of us. It's what we see is what we get. This is the machine. If I see you run, you're running.

This is the machine. This is the machine. Doug is the machine. Doug the machine horseman. It's the machine. And it's as an artist, because coaching is really equal parts engineering and artistry. You're engineering the body and the mechanical part of things and you're designing the way you want it to function and then the artistry is how you mold it into that it's like

how you you know build everything around it and you need to use these techniques yeah but the goal is to break the technique and to allow yourself to freestyle. And that's the whole purpose of it. And that's where position now really comes into play within our position movement purpose, where position is what we see. That's the physical aspect of things. And anyone who's listening right now, that if you're a weightlifter, you know exactly what a snatch looks like, what a clean looks like, what a jerk looks like. And you looks like what a jerk looks like and you within what is the snatch and the clean and jerk you also probably know what style who are the people within the community that you want to mimic and look like because they're attractive to you that's

good use those as a reference and like the break dancing community says uh when they talk about copying they talk about biting. And I heard this saying that I thought was really cool. If you don't bite, you can't eat. So you have to copy these styles. And I think that's important. That's why it's like study someone's technique. Study someone's style.

Take that style. Try to apply it to yourself. You're never going to achieve that style, but within the process of trying to look like that, you're going to feel something different. You're going to create your own style. And then try to explain in words or in a program, in a method, whatever it may be, what it is that you learned in the process of breaking that biomechanical pattern down and that is this movement thing yeah that when you uh related to function which is functional movement now all of a sudden you can uh create standards that are directly related to the purpose of a practice and that's how you make this thing which is weightlifting fitness, uh, specific to the individual. Yeah.

Let's take a break. Yeah. We'll get back and dig into the purpose. Cool. Hey everybody, Marcus Gersey, co-host of the Barbell Business Podcast. If you're a gym owner who's looking to fix, build, or just take your gym from good to great, tune in every Tuesday to the Barbell Business Podcast. You can find us on iTunes and anywhere else you can download a podcast, or you can watch the video version on YouTube on the Barbell Shrugged channel. Tune in to find Doug, myself, and Mike Bledsoe talking about the latest tips and tricks to take your business to the next level. We'll see you Tuesday. All right, we're back with Carl, and we covered the last two and a half years of your life in the first half of the show. We left nothing out.

And, yeah, every aspect of your life. But it was, I think what we learned was that you're a normal human being. And you have feelings too. 100%. 100%. and being and you have feelings too 100 100 and uh and we started getting into the uh the three things to do cool tricks we're in the purpose phase now yeah i guess the question is what is the trick or is there a trick at all is there a trick at all i mean the trick is the purpose it's you know when you see can you do a handstand doug um yeah i'm i'm mechanically limited yeah

after i had surgery on my left shoulder and the way that my labrum is repaired i have a physical block in there so i don't go overhead um all the way overhead very often anymore but i did gymnastics for years growing up so i'm very comfortable doing a handstand yeah you know you know what a handstand is and you i can do it it would hurt, though. Okay, it would hurt. How long can you hold a handstand for? And is it guaranteed that if you kick up to a handstand right now, you won't walk? You're just going to click, kick up, and be completely stable? There's no guarantees in life, unfortunately.

But do you feel like you could do it? You could just kick up and do a 30-second handstand static? That's possible. That's possible. How about you, Mike? Yeah, 20 seconds. 20 seconds, right? Depends on how much I warmed up my fingers. Right.

But I might walk around in a circle. Right, so you see what's happening here? As soon as I ask you guys, you're kind of like, oh, I had surgery, and I'm like a little fucked up. All these things. You're called out. Yeah, you should have all these things. Well, now I've got to do it. And Mike's like well i think i think i have like a 20 second thing so we all know that

a handstand which is a very simple thing requires a level of focus and uh an amount of hours of training and practice to be able to arrive at that point and then there's this extra little bit where it's like how confident are you that if you kick up to handstand right now you can hold it there for 30 seconds no movement like guaranteed that right there is just this extra level there's a gap there for sure right yeah that usually requires about a 20 minuteminute warm-up. So now it's like I need to prep, right? Yeah, yeah.

It's like a whole other thing. I didn't warm up. We all have these little things. Right? I warm up as soon as I get out of bed so I can't actually have the juice. Exactly. You're warm when you get out of bed. But what I'm trying to say is that when we're talking about cool tricks, the cool trick is simply the thing that we see as people that we're attracted to.

Do you want to have ripped ass abs? Well, go get some ripped ass abs, right? And how do you do it? Well, you start doing some research. Well, maybe I need to focus on nutrition, right? Maybe I need to do some physical training. Where do I start? How do I get there? Let me talk to some professionals. Let me get on a program. The cool trick is just

the excuse to get started. It's what creates the gap that allows you now to have some sort of sense of like, okay, I'm going to fill this gap now, right? The cool trick is the gateway drug to motivate you to start to go through all the basics that need to happen in order to actually do the cool trick exactly so oh shit oh i'm not well in a lot of ways my whole life now there you go there you go i think that's 100% true that's how people get sucked into crossfit in the first place they see people doing muscle ups and kipping pull-ups and shit and they're're like, I want to be able to do that.

And then all of a sudden it's like, well, I can't do that. What do I need to do to get there? And now they're doing all the dominoes that preceded that cool trick, as you're saying. Yeah, it's like in surfing, I guess you want to be in a barrel, right, and like tube it, right? And that's what you see on YouTube. That's what you see in pictures everywhere.

And then someone like myself goes out and surfs, and for four hours, I'm getting pounded, and I catch two waves, and they're shitty waves. And you're just like, what is this? I thought I was going to be in a barrel. Right? Not for 10 years. Oh, yeah. So I know right now we're like all over the place but to get crispy clean and focused and sharp so the listener doesn't be like what the hell is this

like that's why you give a call that's all there's to it yeah that's all you get but the cool trick is the purpose what do you want and now get on the cool trick program and the cool trick program is totally individual and if you don't know what the cool trick program is from an individual perspective join a group of people that are doing the cool tricks get around them ask them some questions right so whatever the cool trick is hit me up i don't know maybe i have some answers yeah you see what i'm saying yeah yeah i think finding a training partner is one of the highest level things you can do. Like find a partner who can do all the things that you want to do and they will help pull you up.

Getting a coach is incredibly valuable. I highly recommend everyone have a coach. I highly recommend everyone get on like the right training program. But if you can find a training partner who is a cut above where you want to be and they can do the things that you want to do, then they will pull you along the whole time. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. want to be and they can do the things that you want to do then they will they will pull you along the whole time and the thing is uh a training partner or a coach uh pulling sucks you know pushing is a little nicer but it's nice to have something that is a little bit more symbiotic so it's important to if if you are looking for for answers to get the cool trick and you're seeking out a coach or you're seeking out a training partner, you can't roll up trying to just get, get, get.

You have to propose something. You have to come with something that you are bringing to the table yeah as a student and i think being confident enough to see say to a coach or to a training partner this is what i bring to you in terms of value and this is what i'm going to do for you uh is extremely important because that is what now uh creates a true relationship yeah that builds towards the trick and i think that's the movement that's the beginning of the process i think i think for me as a coach like one of the things that that i did not enjoy with athletes and i won't coach athletes anymore that that aren't here that aren't at this point where they're actually going to show up like the athlete that wants to play by their own rules

or they want to like they're like oh you know i'll do half of what you recommend and then while you're not looking i'm gonna like do some dumb shit and and and i think coaches after a while understand who they're working with when you have the athlete that shows up and goes i will do whatever you say it's like okay that's the person i'm working with right i'm not working I don't work with people who like want to learn a little bit and then go off and do their own thing. Like I want somebody who's going to listen. And the same with a training partner, somebody who doesn't want to skip steps, somebody who actually wants to put in the work and is focused on the process. Um, and, uh, I mean, I personally have

gone through, uh, phases where I get to the trick, for instance, like the muscle up, right? So I used to compete in CrossFit and, you know, get up there and I could do a handful of like maybe five or six strict muscle ups, right? But I could kip out like 15. And then there was a point in my training where I was like, I just couldn't get any more. And then I realized, I was like, oh, I went straight to the end. I was just kipping in these muscle ups and that's why I stalled out. And then I, after doing kipping muscle ups for so long, I go back to strict muscle ups and now I can only do two or three. I go, oh shit, I left. And now after training for as long as I have, I look and I was like, I have left so much on the table. And how much time did I waste? Because I was focused on getting to the top of the rings in that hold at the top.

And I was like, oh, there's all these progressive fundamental movements and strength in different parts of my body. Had I focused there first, I'd be way further down the road right now. And what does that mean to be way further down the road? I could do the cool tricks comfortably and pain-free. Are you sure? So what? Are you sure? That that would be a possibility?

Yeah. Well, it's actually impossible because it didn't happen. Yeah. I mean, what happened had to happen. And I think this is the big discussion too. When it comes to purpose, purpose is the direction. And then the movement practice can have an infinite number of approaches, right? So you could go, oh, let me really focus on building every single little aspect of that movement pattern.

Like, for example, the muscle-up. And if I work on my strict and now I have this foundation, it will translate into being further down the road. But what road are we talking about? Is it the road of doing more muscle-ups? Because if you take a gymnast, actually there's this great gymnast that I've been following lately. He's in the UK. Niall Wilson is his name.

He does these, like, gymnastic challenges on YouTube and he brings in all kinds of people. But one of the things that they had in their challenge was how many muscle ups can you do? And they started every single one strict, but they all finished kipping and they didn't do much more than 15. Right. Okay. You ask a CrossFitter, for example, to do muscle-ups, and you have someone like Noah Olson, I think, does like 28 unbroken or 30 unbroken. I don't even know what he does right now. Probably 60. More than a gymnast. And so you're like, wait, what's the right method?

Well, the right method is the one that's on the right road. But what is the right road? Well, that's dependent on who you are. So you kind of have to choose your battles and i think the big thing that you you were just saying is that what you learned in the process of going through that gave you enough awareness to feel like okay i understand more and therefore now i'm fitter regardless of what the number is yeah i would agree with that and you said something earlier that i that really resonates with me is yeah the weight on the bar and the number of pull-ups and things like that aren't as high yet i feel fitter than i've ever been yeah and having had that now having that understanding i mean today i was doing

like ring rows right i think if the average CrossFitter were to walk in and go, you know, people avoid ring rows because they want to do the pull-ups. Ring rows are usually like the thing you do when you can't do pull-ups. Right. And in a CrossFit class, walk in, see me doing it. Like, what the fuck is he doing? It's like, I just want to feel good. Right. And I think that's, that's the basics. And basics and it's like if if hunter wants to get a press to handstand uh maybe it'll be good to have you know a perfect pancake split and uh have amazing uh thoracic mobility and shoulder mobility and have a great handstand and uh practice some of the patterns and all of a sudden it will happen but the focus not the press it's

everything else yeah Yeah. Yeah. So let's zoom back out for a second. So the three things were what? We were talking about position, movement, and purpose. And right now we spent a lot of time on purpose. Movement is the practice. And when it comes to movement, it's all about task. When we think about a style of movement or a discipline, we tend to think about execution and technique.

Execution and technique is fantastic. We know that execution and technique varies depending on the individual practicing. And because it varies, it's hard to define what is perfect execution. Execution becomes kind of muddy. You know, you're just like, I don't really know what this is.

So that's where this concept of function and task comes into play. And having a direct function associated with a movement is important. And that's where you kind of find your focus. So it's, are you building a bigger chest? Well, maybe you need to do some pressing, right? Okay, so let's do some push-ups. Okay, are you trying to rehab your shoulder? Well, maybe we need to now talk about certain movement patterns like a push-up,

but set it up in a way that is allowing you to heal up from that shoulder surgery, whatever it may be, right? So function is what makes movement really perfect, makes execution what it is. And then within that, it's important to characterize it through safety. Can you do it with feeling pain-free? Maybe you feel uncomfortable, but pain-free in the long scheme of things. Is it useful? Meaning, is it serving the purpose? And is it long-lasting? Does it have longevity? Does this thing have legs? And when it comes to longevity, this is where whoever's listening right now, it's important to realize that it's not about the trick, once again, or at least the way we picture the trick in our head.

An example is I could do an Iron Cross before, and I could hold it for 5, 10 seconds at the most, but that was a very long time. Now I cannot do an iron cross. I cannot do an iron cross that way, but I know that this position of being in an iron cross and then pressing out of it, for example, is an expression of pushing, is an expression of pulling. So I can do an iron cross with a bent arm that's

a dip i can do an iron cross with a dip with my elbows close to my body uh i can do a pull-up with a narrow grip all of a sudden i'm doing an iron cross it just doesn't look like the iron cross and i think that people are like well that's not fucking thing. No, it's not. You know, people get so worked up about it. No, that's what we call accessory work. That's what we call basic strength and conditioning. And if you understand movement from a basic biomechanical perspective, you can create these relationships. And all of a sudden, when you do push-ups, you get better at pull-ups.

When you do pull-ups, you get better at push-ups. When you do a dip, you get better at whatever. And I think that skill transfer is extremely important. So that's the movement side of things. If we pull it even further back and we think about what happens when we move, all we're doing is we're changing shapes in space. And these different shapes that we go through, there are master shapes that we really become aware of. There are starting positions, transition positions, finish positions.

Starting and finish positions are usually pretty easy to spot. So you're just like, oh, you're standing, you're squatting, you're standing again. I got it. The transition positions are the ones that kind of change a little bit, right? And you can have multiple transition positions within a movement, right? It's not like one thing. It's this bigger spectrum. Yeah.

But those transition positions are the ones that, at a very basic mechanical perspective, can allow us to create code. Now all of a sudden we can see a squat versus a deadlift and know that there are movements happening in the hip and the knee and the ankle. And just because of the shape within the transition, we can differentiate between those two movements and say, that's a squat position, that's a deadlift position or a hinge position

or a bent over position or whatever you want to call it. I don't care. That's the code. And when you have that, now all of a sudden you have techniques, you have different expressions. And when you have different expressions, you can build those techniques as a base. And that is what we call skill. And skill is simply your toolbox. so the bigger your toolbox the better but you need to know how to use your toolbox you can't just have a bunch of tools and that's where skill transfer comes in i think that's where i'm at right now right yeah a bunch of tools don't know how to build shit she's like i have a great garage and a great toolbox I just don't know how to build anything. And that's where the beauty comes into play.

It's can we help people gain understanding? Understanding is the product of getting information over time and then gaining knowledge and then being able to take that knowledge and make it relevant in context. That's the understanding. And understanding associated with the chemistry, the positions of the movement within any kind of practice, squatting, deadlift, whatever you want to call it, and then seeing in these different positions all of a sudden makes it relevant to the individual.

And it gives the individual space to see and this sense of like, oh, yeah, I'm growing. The numbers aren't there yet, but I can feel that I'm going in the right direction. And then if we go even deeper, you start looking and you're like, okay, so my start and my finish are kind of my anchor points. My transition is where change happens. Change is always turbulent, right? And when we think about the transition as change, now we start realizing that that's where people run into trouble.

Carl, I can do 100 pull-ups, 100 dips. I just can't get the transition for my muscle-up. I don't know what's going on there. Well, let me help you. Let me show you that the transition of your muscle-up happens to be a ring row, like you were talking about earlier, and a dip or a push-up. And if you just know how to roll, which is the change of direction, which I can show you on the ground by doing a hollow rock or a forward roll, all of a sudden you're going to have access to that. Those are all separate techniques applied to a movement. And now all of a sudden we have skill transfer.

And skill transfer is the essence of this thing and that's where the artistry of coaching movement really comes in uh and when you get that artistry all of a sudden you're realizing i'm fucking doing the cool trick yeah it's exciting so this is this kind of high level philosophy on on on movement it takes it long time, in my opinion, for someone to develop this way of thinking. If you're brand new to fitness and you're just trying to learn how to do a front squat and you really don't know why it's really that different from a back squat, they kind of seem like the same thing. Like what you're saying is maybe a mile away from where that person is.

Or 10. Yeah, you're a long way off from that beginner perspective. How long did it take you to really come up with this way of thinking, this framework, so to speak? 35 years and a month and a half, I guess. That's how old I am. Yeah, it's a lifetime of thinking. And I don't think people listening to this show,

they are expecting probably to hear like, hey, if I just did a push-up with my elbows on top of my wrist and kept a nice strong midline with a brace core and whatever the fuck you have to say to get people to execute the right way is going to get me there. There's something that I think they're hoping to read in between the lines. And I think that's what you guys do so well is with your questions, you're pulling out what is in between the lines. So to go back to your question, it's yes, this is a philosophy and it's kind of a far-fetched approach and it's not very tangible right now. It's too subjective. Just do. Just do. approach and it's not very tangible right now it's too subjective um just do just do and don't worry about what's going to happen just let it be what it is and enjoy that and then whatever you

learn from that use it to take the next step this is just for you to have a mindset that gives you the freedom to do just like i needed someone to to just say hey come into the gym just you know start start squatting a little bit start go for a little run see how that feels oh yeah i can do that i feel i'm here cool and now all of a sudden i'm seeing more i feel more i get it okay this is why the technique and the pushup is this way. Great. I'm getting there. I'm moving forward. I feel like this is an episode where, you know, if you listen to it now, you listen to it two years from now, and then again, five years from now, and again, 10 years from now, it's going to kind of like reading a book. It's like, it's going to mean something totally different to that person. So actually, I highly recommend if you're,

if you are a beginner and you're listening to this, you know, you kind of just like don't quite know exactly how to apply all the things you're saying to re-listen to this episode like every once a year and i think it'll mean something quite different every time agreed and and and to finish up there i was given a seminar uh five years ago four years ago maybe and when i finished the seminar i i finished with some of the conversation that we just had today and one of the coaches that was there he said said, don't ever say that again. Like, don't share that kind of stuff. No one cares.

And that's the day I knew, fuck it. I'm saying it every time. Oh, man. Where are we at? Have we thoroughly covered every point? I think we have. All three of them? I feel like there's something else.

Can you summarize those three things real quick? The whole framework? Yeah. No more than seven sentences. Okay. Pressure. We want our practice to be purposeful. And when you think about this framework, it's position, movement, purpose.

So whatever your movement is, as long as it's safe, useful, long-lasting, it's going in the right direction. It's purposeful. The way you can break it down is by looking at the basic shapes. Focus on the basic shapes. Start, transition, finish. Know that in the transition is where you're going to struggle. Spend a lot of time there. Boom. I like it. Simple. Yeah, man. Crispy clean. Thanks for coming out today.

Thank you. Coming all the way down to Encinitas. Dude, it's awesome. My pleasure. Yeah. And I know you're going to go back up to Venice today. Yeah, heading back up to Venice and enjoying the SoCal life. Yeah, man.

Yeah, yeah. Where can people find you? People can find me at FreestyleConcom my website uh or they can find me on instagram twitter facebook uh carl pauli on youtube i have a bunch of tutorials there and i don't go so far off the cuff there i'm pretty straightforward abc123 right on you give a million videos online you got you got tons of great resources i highly recommend people go watch those videos. We did talk about movement philosophy and a bunch of more esoteric-type things today. But you have tons of very practical how-to videos out, gymnastics, what, et cetera.

So if you do want to learn the basics of push-ups and muscle-ups and whatever else, you have all that stuff available. Yeah, and if you go on Amazon, you can buy the book. And the book has 450 pages with three parts and a bunch of progressions and beautiful pictures, like you have all that stuff available yeah and if you go on amazon you can buy the book and the book has 450 pages with three parts and a bunch of progressions and beautiful pictures like you said so perfect perfect yeah thank you yeah thank you guys and uh make sure you go over to youtube subscribe to the channel facebook same thing and if you really like us which if you're watching this point in the show you do go to itunes five star review positive comment see you next time