Barbell Shrugged - Power, Mobility, and Discipline w/ Jesse Burdick - 276

Episode Date: September 6, 2017

Jesse Burdick, the funniest coach that can lift your whole family, visits Barbell Shrugged Jesse talks turkey about power and a mindset about movement How competitors can still have a good time Coaching vs. Teaching Cutting weight / managing body vs. strength He's damn strong, his numbers will blow you away ► Subscribe to Barbell Shrugged's Channel Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe  Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Barbell Shrugged helps people get better. Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. Find Barbell Shrugged here: Website: http://www.BarbellShrugged.com Facebook: http://facebook.com/barbellshruggedpodcast Twitter: http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged Instagram: http://instagram.com/barbellshruggedpodcast

There's something to being a coach, you know, being a father and everything like, well, I told you not to touch the oven, but I mean, if you want to, I mean, go for it. You're going to, you're going to need to learn one way or the other and everyone learns differently. So like, if you have to go ahead and suffer through this and either, you know, fail, you know, the weight cut itself or fail the next day, that's something that you need to do. And there are people who need to kind of do that. All right, welcome to Barbell Strong. I'm Mike Bledsoe with Doug Larson and Kenny Kane, and we're hanging out with the Jesse Burdick. Thanks for having me. Probably one of the strongest guys that ever walked the planet, I would have to say.

Ever. Is that right? At least the strongest guy in this backyard. Definitely one of the most handsome strongmen there are. Well, of course. Yeah. Of course. Yeah.

Of course. I got that going for me. Yeah. Not a lot else, though. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I wouldn't say that. Mike, I would add to the introduction that he's recently started a hairstyling line.

That's true. That's true. It's a hair consultant line, really. I to the introduction that he's recently started a hairstyling line. That's true. It's true. It's a hair consultant line, really. I can't believe I didn't know that. It's basically helping people with their hair. So, I mean, it's like you call me, send me pictures, like, hey, man, I'm thinking I'm going to get a cut here. I'm like, well, with my vast knowledge here, let me help you out. It's like that?

I would have never advised you to do that. What would you do? Well, I mean, you know, I would probably have you grow it out for a while, right? And then we're going to do a pompadour look for you. Diet really dark black. Okay. Because, I mean, you're going to go to Sweden, too. We want you to kind of really, really stick out over there.

Be really, really different. The black pompadour. Absolutely. It's not different enough as it is. No, like sharpie black, you know what I mean? Okay. And just go the greaser style look for a while. I'm in.

I really think that you could pull that off. Hair by Jesse Bird. There you go. In addition to lifting 5 billion pounds. So you've been a power lifter. You're getting back into sport. Yeah. And years ago, we were at the Arnold, and you played baseball.

Yes. Yeah. And you also got into the whole mobility thing before every other powerlifting. Yes. Is that right? That is. That is. I was lucky enough to meet Kelly Sturette very, very early on when I started to do the powerlifting seminars for CrossFit.

And he was just kind of down the way, and he was like, hey don't you come down and you know help me teach a couple classes so I was at San Francisco CrossFit in the parking lot of Dreams coaching twice a week Tuesdays and Thursdays I went there and he did like a squat and deadlift for him and through that ended up on a lot of the mobilitywad.com stuff and just started kind of moving into that. You know, before I started powerlifting and doing things like that, I was actually high level. I had my CSCS. Then I went and got my massage therapy license. Then I'm an ART therapist as well.

I got three or four of those certifications. So I knew a lot of stuff that Kelly was talking about. You're just not a big, strong, handsome man. No, there's some other layers to it as well. So when Kelly was tired of me talking about stuff, I could follow what he was saying, and I was able to move very well and articulate what he was saying and actually understand it and also understand it through movement myself.

So he became a fan of mine and started using me in a lot of stuff, started to work with each other, helped him develop some of the products, actually came up with the name Voodoo Band for him. When he first kind of saw that and we started experimenting with it, he was like, well, what does this actually do? How can we really explain this to people? I was like, it does so much, man. Just fucking call it voodoo and you won't have to answer a lot of questions so it's magic

it is it is it's black magic um so you know yeah i was able to start uh hanging out with kelly and starting to do a lot of stuff with him so while he was doing those seminars a bunch i was doing the seminars with mark uh for lou for a while and you know, that's how we started with that. And it kind of got a lot of traction because everyone's fucked up and hurts. Yeah, that's true. Nobody's, like, got it all worked out. No. So, I mean, if you can help someone move a little bit better, both by showing them how to and then actually forcing them into a good position,

you know, people end up loving you. So the whole fit it or force it thing. It's very, very true. You get both. This is going to be the theme for the whole show. The Kenny Kane way? The Kenny Kane way. So were you always a pretty good mover and relatively mobile for a powerlifter

even before you met Kelly? Yes. Yeah, I was. I always prided myself on being able to, you know, be technically very proficient. So as I was kind of coming up into the strength world, I had a couple of coaches who were very, very technically sound. And that's what they preached a lot of and kind of coming from the conjugate style of training, you know, the Westside barbell method, if you will. You know, the technique was something that I was very, very interested in understanding because a lot of times you see people move, you're like, God, that was 900 pounds and it didn't even look like this guy broke a sweat.

How do you do this? It's, you know, there's a lot of grunt work behind it, but I mean, if you understand how to move properly, these things start to kind of, that kind of weird line starts to blur where it's, you know, you're technically so very proficient, but you can move really, really heavy weight and you can really do some really, really fun stuff. So, I mean, from there, that was just drilled into me. And you take a step further back, playing baseball, you know, it was always just drill, drill, drill, drill, drill. And then from my dad, I always learned, you know, you know it's always like well you may not understand something if you want to you can find out how just you just got to read about it and then work really hard to figure it out so I think that's all that really technique

is when we kind of come down to things it's just figuring out how to get in that position and then putting yourself in that position over and over and over and over and over again one of the things I remember from actually Mike mentioned this briefly a second ago is that we were at the arnold together like you know three or four or five or however many years ago yeah and we were on john north's podcast at the time yeah briefly and uh one of the things i remember you said on that show before before like bodybuilding and assistance work was like cool in crossfit like it took a while for that to really make its way in because like bodybuilders are the bad guys there for a long time right and one of the things that you said and i was like i was like finally somebody just openly said this was that

you know you go in when you're training and you do a couple of heavy movements one or two and then the rest of it's just assistance work it's very bodybuilding focused and i was like i was like nobody is fucking saying that right now and it was good to hear it from someone who has a lot of training experience because it wasn't cool in the crossfit space yet and uh it kind of has been okay to do those things in the last, like, one or two years, but I feel like you were ahead of the game with respect to assistance work for the CrossFit market. Yeah, I think that's something that we've tried to preach for a long time

because I think there's too many people who, you know, they want to go in there and, you know, they just want to do their main lifts and then get out. And, you know, you've got to kind of compare it to um you know uh like math homework you got to show your work you could get the answer right but if everyone's like okay but you got that but how did you get it we're like well i just did it this explains a lot about my life i was like that's how that's how math shit was turned in by me yeah just just just an answer i just knew the number i just knew it it's just happened. But you know what? And then, you know, you got to show your work. And then it was also, you know, I grew up or kind of came up in powerlifting where it was more about, like, it doesn't matter what you look like.

You just got to be big. Like, well, okay. It's like, no, it's all leverages. It doesn't matter if it's fat or muscle. Just be fucking huge. Okay. I guess that's right. You know, so that's why, you know, Mark Bell was, you know, 330 pounds.

I was 330 pounds. I was 330 pounds. It didn't matter. Just get big. That's what's going to get you stronger. And after a while, you start to see some of these guys who are a little smaller than you, lifting the same amount of weight, and they look jacked. And you're just like, man, what am I doing wrong here? They're fucking sexy and strong.

It's like, do I need to eat more McDonald's? Is that what they have to do? That's usually the answer. More of whatever got you where you're It's like probably less McDonald's. That's usually the answer. It is. More of whatever got you where you're at now is how you make progress. Whatever got you to 330, just add more to it. But it ended up becoming where you're like, okay, it's okay to look like you work out. You don't have to look like a giant fat ass.

It's true, you know. And I mean, eventually. Don't be ashamed of your abs. Absolutely. And then it kind of came down to kind of the whole idea of just you know where you got to work on your weaknesses eventually and kind of in the crossfit realm of thing everyone was just going in there hitting their wad doing you know some strength stuff and then they're just neglecting just a whole huge side of things and it's not the fact that you know they actually look like they work out but it's like okay but just some fix some of the

stuff whether that's mobility stuff whether it's just doing some you know some hamstring work or some glute stuff or some lower back stuff So I'm glad that that you know, I really appreciate you saying that that was on the forefront of that I think that's something that we preached and tried to get in there and try to ingrain to people and now it has you know It just helps people last longer be injury-free and you know, it also looked pretty good as well What are what are some common weaknesses you're finding with CrossFitters? I mean, you train in a gym where there's powerlifting, there's MMA, there's CrossFit, there's a lot going on. The movements are not as varied as people would make them out to be,

which is going to lead to a lot of common deficiencies. What are you seeing? I mean, classically, ever since I've started to work in kind of the CrossFit realm of things, something that's always been a big weakness for everyone has been, you know, hamstring stuff. You know, put them on a GHR, no one can do a strict GHR. So, you know, you just... Glute ham raise. Glute ham raise, sorry, yes.

So, anything... It's the sit-up machine. Just like the reverse hyper is the coffee and it's the stand-up desk. Stand-up desk. Yes. You know, that's always been that way, even in the power, even at Louie's, even at Westside. That's where everybody put their keys and their, you know, and everything and their mountain do's and, you know, everything. That was always there.

But, you know, lower lower back work hamstring stuff and then um that was to kind of start everything and then just general uh upper body uh strength for uh females and then um upper back work specifically for guys and then as the trend let's say upper back upper back traps rear delts anything you know up there behind your shoulder blades shoulder blade movement just in general i always call it kind of CrossFit shoulder syndrome. Everyone's just really internally rotated this way and end up can't, you know, it's very hard to kind of get them back out into this position. And it's not necessarily due to the fact that they're just so bound up here. Um, it's the fact that they're very weak here that they can't actually stand up and articulate a good tall kind of position. What are some exercises for that upper back?

Just face pulls. I mean, it's a really complicated one. Follow me. You grab something. You pull it towards your face. Ah, I get it. Face. You're blowing Kenny's mind right now.

Jesse, when you – it's so much so, man. I feel like Mike. Whoa, dude. It's in so many colors. It's amazing. It's like you have a unicorn colors. It's amazing. It's like you have a unicorn head. It is. It's right there.

His hand is so wet right now. It's so gross. He doesn't want to, like, there you go. You're going to test positive for something. I can't tell you what, but it'll be fun. Give him a lick and just go sit in the corner. His hand is red and bumpy already. How did Kenny gain 40 pounds after the show?

Just in your hand. This has been going back a while. It's funny that they talk about the Arnold. Like you first, when we met, I think it was about 2011, you and Mark had been going around. You just started kind of talking to CrossFit gyms, and you came to our gym. And, like, when you guys came it like

transferred everybody's thinking very quickly because so many weaknesses were exposed everything from what you just mentioned upper back hamstrings but then a big thing for our particular community was just the articulation of external rotation like the the the level of accuracy that you guys could come in and make us aware like oh fuck we don't have control of our femurs right you know by the way that's substantial when moving the rest of your body right so i think after you guys left that really evolved a lot of our conversations secondly can i lick your head if you want to okay um we might say no i really do want to. Okay. Nobody's stopping you. No, I really do want to gain 40 pounds.

There you go. And test positive for everything. Kenny's not very risk-averse. You'll have to put something underneath this, I guess. At Barbell Strug, we do drug tests. Oh, really? And if you pass, you're fired. Well, consider me hired.

I'm going to – but you know what? I'll actually – actually, let's do this. When you drug test me, if you get all of them, I'll hire you guys. Awesome. There you go. Awesome. Let's go. When did you and Mark meet up?

We met. And we might have bypassed some stuff. I know a lot of the listeners are going to know what you've done and what your sort of numbers are, but can we just take two steps back just to some of the people who... After we're 15 minutes into the show. Well, I know, but I realize that we didn't say... Well, at least you're doing it because I didn't. Yeah.

I mean, so what are your records as far as your PRs? So in geared powerlifting, my best squat is 9-11. My best bench is 6-33. My best deadlift is 8-26. In raw powerlifting, my best squat is 7-33. My best bench is 5-21, I think. Pounds and kilos get confused in my head sometimes. And my best pull is 766.

And that's done. And I'm one of the few people in powerlifting history that's totaled elite in five different weight classes. So I've totaled elite at 220, 242, 275, 308, and super heavyweight. And I'm the only idiot that I know of that's totaled both 220 and super heavyweight elite totals in the same year. Holy shit. That's a drastic. Which one did you hit first, by the way?

Did you hit high and then cut down? No, I went low and then went back up. Dang. I was sitting about 260 or so, and then I dieted down to about 245, cut down to the 220s. And then after that, I gave myself about six months and ate up to about 290. And then I did some really awful eating like to be honest with you the the weight loss stuff the the weight cut um wasn't as bad as trying to put on like 20 pounds of just bloat and we tell people that all the time people are like oh it's so easy to gain weight i'm like no it's the worst not once you plateau it was terrible yeah was terrible. I took, at one time I was eating two things of ramen, right,

but with ten of the packets of the flavoring packets. Oh, shit. So I was doing that two to three times a day. That'll put ten pounds of bloat on you. That's how things are preserved. Oh, it's awful. And science fairs. It's awful.

Exactly. And I was eating a bag of Doritos a day as well. Oh. I know. It hurt. It was bad. It was brutal. It was bad.

I had heartburn consistently for about six months. Yeah. Where do you lift most naturally at? Where do you feel best? I feel the best, and I think I was the strongest when i was in the like 275 class and i would weigh anywhere between um like 263 and like 275 kind of depending on you know where we were in the year so that's usually where i feel the best at and i'm probably i'm sitting about 270 right now have you seen a movement in powerlifting since you guys are sort of at the forefront of like the the technical aspect of it

from like it being more of a brutish thing to that that technique and that skill being just as much emphasize just as much i think it's always been you know from the start i think it was just all kind of just brute lifted however you you end up can't you how you can and then kind of science came along and um everyone started to kind of figure out that the Russians have been doing this research for years and years and years and figured out, oh, hey, there's a better way to do some of this stuff. So you add in some programming, you add in some technique, and then it kind of progresses from there.

So there's always been a nice kind of mix of things. I think what was ushered in a lot in our era was kind of the it's okay to look like you lift weights and you don't have to be a giant fat ass. And you can lift a lot of weight too. But also the really drastic weight cuts started to come along where people are cutting anywhere between 20 and 30 pounds, usually with the 24-hour weigh-in. So, you know, someone who's at 220 220 like when i cut to 220 i weighed in the next day at 246 so i cut so where'd you start i started at like two four like 240 ish so you're around 240 you cut down to 220 you weighed in and then within 24 hours before you lifted you were back around 246 yes awesome yeah totally so I think this is a really good thing

to note is we've addressed this on the show before but I like recovering this ground because I think there's a lot of people who just don't

grasp this but it's easy to cut the weight down. It's putting it back on and being able to perform the next day that's really the challenge. Most people fuck that up.

Yes, they do and I mean that's everyone thinks that that's going to be the easiest part about it. And they screw it up usually right off the jump. So you step on the scale, you're 219, then you step back off the scale. I'm like, oh, I'm going to go eat a bunch of pancakes. You eat two pancakes, you blow up, and you're like, I feel so sick. And then you can't eat for four hours, and then you're just like, oh, what the hell am I going to do?

So, I mean, it's come a long, long way as far as, you know, how to kind of properly move these things. When I'm working with an athlete who's cutting anything more than 5% of their body weight, you know, there's a really step-by-step process that we use in order to kind of get that weight back on and get it on properly. And we don't actually have them eat like actual food probably until about three hours after the weigh-in. So they're trying to, you know, get in Pedialyte, get into, you know, protein shakes. Just get your body to like remember. Do you IV up at all? Whenever we can, yeah, absolutely. I think that's the easiest way to put the weight back on.

But still, it's a challenge and it's a skill to know how to use that. Because, I mean, what you need to do is we figured out after a lot of trial and error is that after you eat or after you get an IV, you got to start moving around. Otherwise, it just sits. So you want that to go back out into your musculars and get it out into the extremities there to kind of start moving around. Then it goes on as it sort of kind of came off. Because, I i mean it just

comes you can't you can't like i'm just we'll take off 10 pounds here and 10 pounds here it's you know it just all kind of comes off and where you put it all back on as long as you're kind of moving you do these little mini workouts after you eat after you hit an iv or whatever it ends up being you can start to put the stuff back on almost where you put it off feel good enough but it's still you know powerlifting you can go nine for nine. That's a perfect day. Weightlifting, six for six. But you got to hit your, you know, you got to hit your weight cut and you got to get on the scale properly.

And then you got to put it back on. That's two more events when you're doing something, you know, drastic one way or the other. You know, with weightlifting, there's usually a two-hour weigh-in. Yep. So, I mean, that's going to be, you know, I don't really hear of anyone cutting more than four or five pounds. I always cut about five pounds. And anything more than that, it was going to eat into performance. Right.

And then, I mean, I even did what you were talking about. I would basically, I had two hours. I would have to cut down last minute every time. And I decided to go up a weight class after a while. But I would be drinking enough water, sugar, and some other things to get the weight back on. And I was basically sick until – because it's only two hours. I would be warming up and I'd be sick. Like I'd be in between.

And then about halfway through warm-ups, I'd start feeling good. By the time I was on the platform, I was amazing. But there was trial and error to get there. People were like, are you going to be okay? I was like, I'll be the platform I was amazing yeah but there was trial and error to get there people are like are you gonna be okay I was like I'll be fine I'll be fine that's a you know there's a huge mental aspect to that too because I mean yeah if you're if you take the barbell and you grab it and you feel like it just cuts through you're like fuck it's gonna really suck today totally and then you're like no no no just give me an hour I'll be okay I'll

figure it out they're like no, no. Good luck with that. Good luck. Exactly. But, I mean, that's a lot to, you know, you've got to be not only physically strong, but mentally strong, A, to go through the cut like that, and B, just to be like, I can do this. I know I'll be fine. It's just, you know, I've got to, you know, take some of this nutrition in

and feel better later on as I go. As you were coming up, did you ever lay goose eggs and mistime this whole thing? Like, you put 25 pounds back on. It doesn't get back into the extremities as you say yep and then you're underperforming like you're 40 pounds lighter absolutely to begin with 100 you know you take the bar out to squat and it feels like there's just nothing underneath you anymore no body you know you have nothing in the middle you can't feel your belt you can't feel the bottom of a squat and you're just like well shit so when i when i cut down to 220 i had

to do it three times before i was uh successful to hit an elite total okay so i mean i missed and you and you learned your lessons and each time you tweak something a little bit yep and then as it's you know this isn't something that's set in stone um for you know for the reason of a each time you're going to do it something's going to be different body weight you know circumstances etc and then you know what we were talking about earlier mike is everybody's different right so i can give you like the schedule but i can't be like look this is what usually happens you're you're you're going to spin one way or the other you just got to let me know how you're feeling and we can kind of dial it back in as you go but i can't tell you just follow this list and

you'll be fine because there's going to be people who respond to carbohydrates differently move differently water they're not going to be able to uptake blah blah blah blah so i mean there's so many things that can kind of change that so it's kind of a living document of you right if you will so i mean but we have a lot of it pretty dialed in um but you know there's going to be swings one way or the other and i mean you see that at the lowest level you know people just starting to cut just a couple pounds for a meet to people who are in the professional cutting 20, 30 pounds for it as well. It's continually changing. So given that there's a lot of variety there,

do you have athletes practice this outside of competition where they're not trying this out when it actually matters? Yeah, I try to make sure that athletes aren't cutting for a meet their first two or three. I just want them to get on the platform, feel good, be successful. And then once they have some numbers underneath them, they have a little bit of experience, if they're somewhere between a weight class and they want to go down and set a numbers, and we have a record board at our gym know, at our gym, just like,

you know, some of the other powerlifting gyms do like that's that I want that square. That's mine. I'm like, all right, man, let's, let's do it. Um, if it's over 5% of their body weight, like I have a guy who wants to cut down to one 98s, he's been in the two 20s, you know, for a while now. So he sits anywhere between like two7 and like 223 depending on the day and how many times he visits 7-eleven um so that's where that's that 10 it's really an interesting thing you know as much as we want to say everyone's so different there's that 10

right there of the body weight where it really gets squirrely and weird so he wants to do this and he wants to do it at the the meet that we do every year the reebok record breakers in november it's like all right that's a really big meat i don't want you to fuck this up so he's going to practice here in like two in about two weeks where there's a couple other people cutting and just see where we can kind of get him and see where we get to and then once and then we'll kind of be able to figure it out. So absolutely. And if it's anything towards that 10%, I always practice it. Anything a little bit less, it's not going to be. We can pretty much gauge how it's going to go. I can tell them how it's going to feel.

And then it's whether they learn their lesson, they stop cutting and go out of weight class and just say, ah, fuck it, or they're like, oh, that was fun. Like, ah, you're pretty sick. It attracts the masochist very well. say, fuck it, or they're like, oh, that was fun. I'm like, oh, you're pretty sick. So you're in the right sport. It attracts the masochist very well. Yeah, 10% was always what I shot for when I was fighting MMA, and I had 24 to 30 hours after weigh-ins.

I tried to die down to right around 187 because I was fighting at 170, so 17 pounds above that. And the few times that I went over that, it was either really rough or there was one fight where I actually missed weight. You know, I was much bigger than I should have been, but I thought I could make it anyway. And I was like, I was 198 24 hours before, like super hyper hydrated. So that wasn't my true weight because I was hyper hydrated and I had extra fluid in me. But I only made it down to 172.

And then the next day I was like 191, 192. And that was a little bit much. That was a rough-ass cut. So 10% I think is a good number. It's actually – it rings true almost across the board whenever we're dealing with – whenever, you know, there's some athletes. There are people who can, you know, if they're like MMA or they're kind of wrestlers, you guys are sick motherfuckers.

And you've been cutting weight since you've been like eight years old. You're like, oh, I'm just going to throw in some trash bags and run around the block, Dad. Like, all right, son, go for it. So those kind of people are like you can handle more. You know what I mean? You could handle a little bit more of a weight cut. Well, there's also more variables in that too. I mean, like with the barbell, it's just very straightforward.

Right, right. John Hackleman used to talk a lot about that, like cutting weight with all the ufc guys and just getting like you know all those fighters ready for it and i mean what we found i mean a lot of the fighters will end up in kind of a sauna usually and we try and keep people out of a sauna as much as possible that just drains their performance they can just never kind of get that weight back i don't know where it pulls from i mean it's usually that last little bit those last three four pounds that always the hardest and you got to lock somebody in the sauna and kind of just like watch your friend like let me out like we've all been there you'll be okay like no i'm dying

i always like going to the gym like in in town for a local competition and i'm in there with a hoodie and then other people in there in their swimsuits are like, what the fuck is wrong with this guy? And he's been in here way too long. Way too long. He's like, he doesn't understand the sauna. You're supposed to take all that shit off. Check out the old naked guys. What about ladies?

So I find that women have a much more difficult time cutting weight. What about the ladies? Yes, the ladies. I agree. Did it come out like that? It was just a fun transition. It always comes out like that. So anyway, let's talk about chicks.

I'm a natural creeper. Let's talk about chicks. I agree. I mean, it is a little bit more difficult. And in my experience, I haven't had anyone go like kind of that magic 10%. It's usually I try and dial it back to kind of a 5 to 7-ish is really where I like to just like, hey, look, you shouldn't have eaten that much in your training cycle.

It's going to be too much for you. But, I mean, you know, there's something to it being a coach, you know, being a father and everything. Like, well, I told you not to touch the oven, but, I mean, if you want to, I mean, go for it. You're going to, you're going to need to learn one way or the other and everyone learns differently. So like, if you have to go ahead and suffer through this and either, you know, fail, you know, the, the weight cut itself or fail the next day, that's something that you need to do. And there are people who need to kind of do that. And there, how there are, uh, there are girls who have like,

no, I'll be a fine. I'm like, all right, man, let's go ahead. But you know, they're dealing with,

you know, some, some different hormones and, you know, they got some, uh, some monthly visitors that really kind of fucked that whole thing up too. So,

I mean, you got, you're dealing with three or four more things than you normally would with guys. And, and I, I agree. It, it screws things up a little

bit more now there are people who can who have dialed it in but they're just they've done it probably ten times they understand what works for them definitely but just off the jump like you got to really kind of dial it back for women speaking of women since super trainings started have you seen a significant change in the last 10 11 years with the sort of influx of women powerlifting just in general? It's been astronaut. The growth in the female kind of barbell sports, I think you can safely say, has been astronomical. I mean, it's gone from the point where in, you know, strongman powerlifting, Olympic lifting, you know, you could easily confuse a chick and a dude sometimes, you know,

from, you know, from kind of back in the day. And now you're looking at some, some chicks who look, who are model like runway gorgeous, who are stepping on the platform and putting up ridiculous amounts of weight. And, you know, whether you like it or not, I think, you know, CrossFit's had a huge impact on this because, you know, CrossFit is kind of the gateway drug to some of the other barbell sports, right? And they're like, oh, hey, I'm kind of strong. I want to lift heavier, so I'm going to go over here and do powerlifting or Olympic lifting. And it's just shown, you know, shined a light on it. And some of the records that are being broken now by women, it's just ridiculous.

It's incredible. It's incredible. It's so cool to kind of see. And I mean, I'm certainly biased because I've got two, I've got nine-year-old twin daughters. Right. And to kind of have them see this and have strong women be featured. And it's okay to do this stuff. But I mean, look, she's still hot.

And this is still kind of cool. It's still good looking. She's still powerful and yay women and all that other stuff but I mean they're lifting you know amazing amounts of weight and that's this is what they do so it's been that growth I I don't even know if they can measure it I mean you know from um from from the growth of uh USAWs you know two three times you what I mean? I remember the days when the Arnold would be basically held in the closet. You know what I mean? For USAW Nationals, they used to have it there.

And it was quiet, and I would wander into the room, and, you know, and I would see, you know, and I saw, like, Kendrick. It's like, oh, Kendrick. And everyone would kind of look at me. I was like, sorry, I clapped. I clapped loud. I disrupted the camera guy. He was like, whoa, oh, Kendrick. And everyone kind of looked at me. I was like, sorry, I clapped. I clapped loud. I disrupted the camera guy. He was like, whoa, oh, my God.

And he missed his shot. You know what I mean? Now it's a week long. I'm taking my daughters to youth. And it goes to like midnight. It does. I'm taking my girls. They qualified.

I'm taking them to USAW. I think it's youth nationals in Atlanta in about a month and a half here. It's six days long. Right. I mean, for kids who are like, you know, I mean, my girls are nine. It's nine to 13, I believe. Correct? And there's going to be.

I don't know. I coach like one youth athlete ever. But it's going to be five or six days long. And, I mean, I don't even know if they used to have a youth nationals. They used to have to put them all together. And I mean, in powerlifting, kind of the same thing. So the growth in that has been like more chicks do it, more dudes want to come and do it too. And then a lot more specters are going to kind of come as well.

Just like the club. Make it free for the ladies. Absolutely. We were just about to interview somebody who was at the meet we saw you at a month ago. Right. What was the lifter's name who we will have on the show at some point? Oh, the woman we're meeting? Yeah.

Stephanie Cohn. Stephanie Cohn. I mean, great example of everything you just talked about. We're meeting with her tomorrow, by the way. Oh, okay. So she was – Oh, she's coming down? Mm-hmm.

Oh, she's awesome. Or Monday. Monday. Her and Hayden are great. They're really good friends of mine. Great, great people. And she's awesome. Her and Hayden are great. They're really good friends of mine. Great, great people. And she looks great. She's an amazing Olympic lifter and an amazing power lifter as well.

And I think she's a doctor. She's going to be a doctor. PT. She's going to University of Miami. I don't know where she is in that whole thing. But, I mean, yeah, she's got it going on on all levels. On all fronts. All levels.

It's funny because she came and joined us with her Pedialyte because we were waiting to shoot the episode. And she was cutting to make weight. And then Mike, or then she shows up. She had a really hard cut that day, too. Yeah. It was not pretty. It took her. She was the last person to weigh in at the afternoon weigh-ins, I think.

So she only really had. She needed every minute to get there. She did. She only had like 12 hours to kind of reconstitute as well. So that really, I think that ended up really kind of hurting her. And I don't know the details of it. I wasn't privy to what was going on. But I think she did kind of that magic, ah, I'm a couple pounds over.

I'll still be able to handle it. And in the past she had i don't know what the difference was this time but i mean that was a really really rough cut for her you put travel on top of that yeah well of course you know you hop in a plane and it gets weird it's like a break real quick when we come back i want to talk about creating a training environment awesome hey everybody marcus gersey co-host of the barbell business podcast if you're a gym owner who's looking to fix build or just take your gym from good to great, tune in every Tuesday to the Barbell Business Podcast.

You can find us on iTunes and anywhere else you can download a podcast, or you can watch the video version on YouTube on the Barbell Shrugged channel. Tune in to find Doug, myself, and Mike Bledsoe talking about the latest tips and tricks to take your business to the next level. We'll see you Tuesday.

You've created a pretty good training environment up where you're at. You do a lot of coaching you develop coaches And that's actually unusual. You know, it's typical to walk into a facility and and I For instance, we walked into a facility last week where we walk in where it's like, whoa, the energy is there It's great. And then there's a lot of times you walk in and kind of like oh yeah there's just people doing like going through the motions what makes the difference i think the coach does you know i mean you kind of have to you know set uh and lead by example in every way possible i think that uh you know a coach needs to be in there you know under the bar with you know with his athletes athletes, with, you know, clientele, et cetera.

So you got to be lifting. And, you know, you also have to, you know, set an example of, you know, how to kind of do things. And, you know, I'm not here trying to tell anyone how to live their life or anything along those lines. But there's so many lessons. That's what we do on this show. Exactly. That's why I just fucking go for it, man.

In the gym, I don't tell anybody. Here, I'll, yeah, we'll tell you exactly how to live. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, in the gym, there's fucking go for it, man. In the gym, I don't tell anybody. Here, I'll tell you exactly how to live. But in the gym, there's so many lessons that I've learned in the gym that have kind of transferred out

into the world on get stronger in the gym and things will start to make a difference. Not only does it happen kind of physically for you, but kind of emotionally, mentally,

and that kind of just bleeds out into kind of the rest of the world because the gym's a really special place for all of us, really, and for a lot just bleeds out into kind of the rest of the world. Cause the gym is a really special place, you know, for all of us really. And for a lot of people listening, you know, it's, it's, it's our salvation, it's our safe place. Um, and, uh, it's a place to go to where you can, you know, be you, you can kind of get away from life for a while, kind of

reset yourself and kind of move forward. And, um, I think it's really important to kind of, um, set that up and you, you have to explain to people and tell them, you know, that this is, you know, a place where you can just kind of chill. Don't worry about all that stuff. And, you know, get in here and do your own thing. And I think, you know, you have to be an observant coach. So if you see someone walking in, head down, everything like, hey, man, what's going on? You all right? You know, just having a rough day. It's like, well, you know, let's just get moving. And then, you know, we'll see what we can get out of you at the end of things. It's not, you know, the goal shouldn't be for me to just well you know what let's just get moving and then we'll you know we'll see what we can get out of you at the end of things it's not you know the the goal shouldn't be for me to just you know beat the shit out of anyone who comes into the gym and you know it's just to get any

everything that you can get out of that person that day so that's why you know if you're looking at we can kind of talk all-time maxes to daily maxes yeah you're talking about there's variants here a lot of people have most athletes have unrealistic expectations of themselves because they think that every day they come in that they should be better than they were yesterday correct and i mean that's something that i i i use the term you know you know manage your expectations daily you know 10 times daily most likely um and it's just like hey man you know your shoes are tied too tight your girlfriend broke up with me you know with you that would actually be a good day console me please your girlfriend broke up with you your dog died you shouldn't expect much from yourself just do what you can and i mean that's a win that's a plus that's that's still a step forward

for people so i mean you gotta you not only do you have to kind of create that environment, be able to see what other people are doing, you know, you gotta let them know that it's okay to not hit a record when you walk in, as long as you get the work done, that's all that really matters. And, you know, just start to, you know, be the example that people can follow, be empathetic to people who kind of walk in, but also not to baby people. I mean, there's going to be people who, you know, need kind of the tough love, need to be pushed, and you got to push those people. There's going to be those people that you kind of got to bring along and, you know, just drag the carrot in front of them and, you know, eventually they'll go ahead and

get it. So I think, you know, it takes a, um, it takes a coach who can, um, um, coach to people's learning styles and then also can, you know, has the ability to, you know, bring people along. And it's just like, look, just step at a time, step at a time. You're not going to be, I mean, look at it. I mean, you're not going to just walk into the gym and look like this, you know, seriously, 40 pounds heavier than when i started the show decades of work just sitting around getting stronger oh wow yeah so it takes a lot of work soak it up jess every time i see you i do kenny and i'm in i'm all that's where the majority of the balance thing right now you're gonna fall over

and you just ripped your groin in pants. Keep going. I don't know if I can, especially with this kind of sticking out here. Is that your wallet or that apple again? That looks good. Get that on camera. That's the whole thing. Oh, man. It's my apple.

Little Kane Jr. I don't need any more kids um but i mean you kind of even just build off of this you know one of the mottos is you know lift hard laugh harder you know and i mean you have you have to have a sense of humor about things because life can really fucking suck for people jesse i think for anybody that's ever come across your path that's the one thing and i and i asked i want to ask you about this specifically when meeting you and mark first of all both of you when you walk into a room are physically imposing because it's like oh good christ and then the and then and then it's the numbers when you start to realize what you guys have moved you know there's this this like massive like energetic shift in places that you walk so in that environment you find well

two things your sense of humor was so disarming you and mark um to her like nobody expected that right because we didn't know you personally and then immediately you just you took the ammo of like these guys are big dumb knuckleheads who know how to lift only. Right. And you shifted that altogether. Have you ever found anybody in your environment, Mike's asking about your coaching environment, that doesn't appreciate your sense of humor? Not to this point. I think, you know, it disarms people sometimes where maybe they don't quite get it.

Right. And it takes them a while. And then they kind of come back around, and they're like, that was pretty funny. I get that. I'm like, oh, okay, cool. I didn't think you really either appreciated it or didn't like it. And there are some people you can only push so far, and then there's people that you can touch on some topics

and some not on the others. But eventually, again, kind of the atmosphere, it grows. I usually find whatever makes the person cringe and just hammer that. There you go. Just fuck them up. Yeah. Eventually, just desensitize them to the whole thing, and now they can deal with you.

See, we do it a little bit less. I mean, that subject still comes up when they become desensitized to it because they realize, like, because people come into a gym and they have these, again, this expectation of whatever it is, you know, and you can't help how they come in and what they're thinking or what they think of you, first impressions or anything. But eventually they're like, okay, this is a safe place. We can kind of joke around and, like, I get it. That's kind of funny. You calling everyone fat. Like, that's hilarious.

You know, and all this other stuff and it and it grows on people and then you know they start kind of chirping at each other and then you know it kind of grows and grows from there but there are people who will start you know be very very quiet and then it then it'll grow and grow and grow but i don't think i've i mean maybe they just never came back to the gym so maybe i really didn't notice that they they they didn't really like it but you know the it's, it's hard enough to get people off the fucking couch, right. Then to get them to your door. Right. And then they cross into the door and they kind of come to your gym or wherever it is. And then it's even that much harder to get them

to come back. So, you know, to, to me, it's, it's about just everyone saying hello and Hey, how you doing? Everyone's talking. You create an environment of just, you know, everyone's friends, everyone's family. And you know, the goal is you can kind of feel that when you come in and you can kind of see that. And then you can see some people working really hard and getting after things and some intensity, but you know, there has to be all of that to, to, to be, um, to be successful. That was my next question is You, as a living example, of kind of like fucking around for a minute and then going over and picking up a bar

that's 900 pounds and then like, and then to me, that's a tremendous example because it reminds people that we have a broad range of capacity and that we're human beings. The thing that you're speaking about just a moment ago, meeting people where they're at yeah on any given day um you as a competitor were you goofing around and playing just up until the moment of a lift like i haven't seen you compete so i don't

know i know you as individually but i don't know you as a competitor so um it's i get i get the question where you know i mean you know some people who are lifting you know have this you know sort of intensity about them or and you know and um you know some of the best people always you have to kind of go you have to go there there's a place where you know it's dark and it's fucked up and it's weird you know and just it's uncomfortable and you have to be able to get there to be successful in any sort of sport, one way or the other. It takes some people a lot to get there. Some people it takes very little to get there.

For me, the biggest thing that I, when I started, I didn't get there really, really easy. It's turning it back off was a really, really hard thing for me. And so, and I mean, and that's like, I mean, after a fight, do you ever sleep after a fight? No. Right, exactly. That's not true, I don't. You ever, and I mean, and that's like, I mean, after a fight, do you ever sleep after a fight? No. Right, exactly. That's not true, I don't.

You ever lift? I always stay up late. He never even noticed until now. Exactly, but it's that thing, you can't turn off that adrenaline.

What's funny is, you just stumped Doug, and Doug isn't easily stumped. But it's one of those things where it's so hard for me to kind of turn it off.

Yeah. So I have to be joking, fucking around around having fun about the whole thing so i can be intense and then i can come back to it you know being you know this is who i am i'm smiling i'm happy i'm trying to have fun joking around so when the intensity side comes along that i think is uh more disarming than kind of you know uh the joking sense of humor thing for everybody but like whoa whoa and then it's just like oh you're back to kind of, you know, the joking sense of humor thing for everybody, but like, whoa, whoa. And then it's just like, oh, you're back to kind of, just like you said, but there is, you know, there is, you have to get there one way or the other. For me, again,

it's kind of hard to turn that off. So, I mean, I can't be intense all the time because it just exhausts me. I just, you know, I have nothing else to kind of give. So I can kind of just push it away for a second and, you know, it's right there whenever i need it whenever i want it i can go ahead and turn it back on but it just i have to be able to create enough space for it because it's just it's not a healthy thing to be in that mindset all the time you know you're gonna end up killing yourself or killing someone right one way or the other interesting oh that was dark well it's you know it's but you get asked don't know what to say now all right no but on the subject of murder listen as far as like intensity like i i often

have difficulty sometimes with our members or coaches who don't understand like now it's not a good time sure so they'll see me light lighthearted and then I'll switch into a moment where I need to take care of myself as a student in a class. Right. And they don't get it. They'll be like, hey, hey. And then it's time to like, do you get it? Is there an apple in your pocket?

I'm like, there's no apple in my pocket right now. Not right now. I need to go. Right. It'll be there. Give me five minutes and I'll be back. Everything will be fine. And I mean, again, I think that's just leading by example.

And people will figure that out. They'll watch somebody try and do that and you're like, just hold on a second. And then you go do your thing and then you come back and I'm like, yeah, check me out. But it's one of those things where if you come in the gym, we'll be talking and everything along those lines. And I'll see someone's ready to go, get that person ready, whatever they need to kind of get to that lift and then it's just like like so what we were talking about was and they're just like yeah okay so and that's the whole thing it's like hey turn it on when you're over there when you're at the barbell yeah you're not dude fucking turn it off it's okay you don't have to just walk around

you're gonna exhaust yourself you're gonna it's just those people are never successful and 90 of the time it's all for show banging their head against shit and just like well this guy's gonna fail his next lift How do you know it's like look he's expending all of his energy trying to look like yeah, he's a tough guy It's just like it doesn't fucking matter over the years. I definitely I played more chill music in between sets Yeah, like the the heavy metal and and going nuts and jumping around. I mean, my gym is always. Less GWAR. More Bobby McFerrin. Yes.

Yes. Can you name like two Bobby McFerrin songs? Well, Don't Worry, Be Happy. Right. Of course. That's going to be the one. That's why I asked for two. No.

Yeah. Just don't do country music. No, I can't. I can't do country music and left at the same time. That's So earlier we talked about a couple of old trends like the trend of assistance were coming in across the world That's pretty mainstream. Now. We talked about how CrossFit was kind of like the gateway drug, especially for ladies to get into strength training. And now a lot of those people have transitioned

onto other barbell sports, weight lifting, power lifting, even strongman, et cetera. Like what are some trends that are happening right now that aren't quite so mainstream yet that you see as a positive thing? Like what's changing in the industry right now that people may, that aren't deep in the industry and might not have seen yet?

I think there's a huge trend and there's a huge push um focusing a lot on the recovery side of things so you know diet is diet's always been there i mean we but i mean you know anyone who's intelligent is you know the further you kind of dive into it the better off you're going to be the more um successfully you're going to be, the more successful you're going to be. But there's a huge push for sleep. There's a huge push for anything. Kenny's fucking losing it. What's happening, Kenny?

I'm sorry. You think of another song? Kenny's going off the deep end. No, no. Sorry. This is really funny. What? Recovery?

Sleep? No. What happened? I just got the giggles. See, he just figured out. Can't get irritable and it just kicked in. He just figured out how it's funny. Is it 420 right now?

No, no. Sorry. I just completely derailed a very excellent answer. And it was not intentional. I just thought I just wanted to do a tuck between as you're talking and go off camera and kind of give you the the full uh the and so i just had the buffalo bill the buffalo bill puts the lotion in the back so sorry it's just all right i think i have that effect on a lot of people to be honest with you you're not the first

person to tell me that. Because I wanted to tuck their penis between their legs and do a dance for them. Happens all the time. Puts the lotion on the skin. So recovery. There's a big movement to recovery. Can you ask me that question? Can we start that question?

Let's start over. Actually, I'm going to just delete the audio we have so far. Start the whole over again. Actually, I'm going to just delete the audio we have so far. Start the whole show over. All right, so recovery is the emerging trend right now. You know, it's always been there. Oh, here we go. Oh, here we go. Wait, can I Instagram this?

The neighbors here have been taking pictures. We just talked about how this beautiful place, you can't do anything. When you come back, it's going to be a fucking Baskin-Robbins. Jesus. Sorry. Back to Northern California. If you're listening on audio only, Kenny was naked off camera. Yes.

He fulfilled his dream of doing that. Maybe on someone else's camera. Check that off the list, right? Good for you. Very impressive. We all have bucket lists. I feel much closer to you now. Kenny was actually at half-mast.

Not in the way I want. And growing. When he was at half-mast and was able to get it underneath. That's actually the only way he can get it want. And growing. When he was at half-match and was able to get it underneath. That's a skill. That's really impressive. That's actually the only way he can get it underneath. Force it. It won't reach otherwise.

Force it. He's been using the silk scarf. Yes. Oh, man. Do you know what a blue one is? I'm going to get you one. Google it. A merkin as well?

All right. So good. Recovering. Recovering. Recovering. I don't know if we can recover from this. Laughter is good for recovery. Yeah. I mean, recovery has always kind of been there,

but I think there's so much more technology, whether it's wearable technology, whether it's an omega wave or some sort of heart rate variability measure. People are realizing that surprise, sleep is important, and being able to track your sleep. And the more you sleep, the better you sleep, the deeper you sleep, the better you're going to kind of perform, et cetera, et cetera. And I think there's a big push that way.

All the research and everything that is emerging now is all in that realm of things. You have people who are, you know, you have NFL teams who are putting GPS on their athletes, tracking not only how many steps they're taking in any sort of a practice, but their top speed, average speed, everything along these lines. I mean, the amount of data that's coming out is just it's ridiculous so um and and they're not necessarily coming up with anything mind-blowing they're kind of coming back to the idea of like hey we probably shouldn't overwork these people a lot during practice so they'll you know perform better for the games but now they actually have this huge amount of data and these data points that they can show to some old school coach or a general manager and say, no, no, no, seriously, we shouldn't overwork these guys. Look at what happens when we do.

And then they go, oh, shit. This is going to be probably most amazing for MMA. That's coming as well. You'd be surprised at how touchy of a thing it is because people are like, here, we want to put this watch on you and we're going to do all this stuff and we're just going to read everything.

They're like, you're listening to my phone calls. I'm just going to track all your biometrics and where you go at night. Exactly. There's a camera in your bedroom. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it.'t worry about it people get freaked out about it people have opted out on a professional level these are professional you

know nfl athletes saying i don't want you knowing all this stuff about me they're like well bitch we fucking own you we pay you nine million dollars oh yeah with a fucking ball you wear wear this fucking watch so we can tell what's going on. But there's people who will pay money back to not wear this stuff. That's how kind of freaked out and weird that they end up getting. But it is going to be one of those things where I'm sure you could look back at your MMA career

and be like, wow, if I didn't train for seven hours a day, I probably would have been a better fighter running into that last fight or whatever it ends up being. Totally. I was a fucking mess half the time. Right.

Exactly. Not half, most of the time. And you're not the, you know, you're not the exception. You know, I would say 90% of the people out there are doing that. Well, I mean, I actually watched, as an example, I was watching the Ultimate Fighter years and years and years ago when Josh Koscheck was on there. Right. And I remember one of the strength coaches on the show, and this is probably good TV

as opposed to necessarily the reality of it, but on the show guy was like hey more is necessarily better and josh costa looks at him and goes hey i've been doing this a long time more is better right and like that's that's that's not the only example out there but like that that guy is super famous and he's very successful and and maybe more is better for him i'm not saying i'm not saying he's wrong necessarily but people hear that and they go oh okay well okay, well, if that elite, elite, elite guy says more is better, maybe there's something to it. Maybe I should do more too. And I think that as kind of, you know, the reality TV show and all the social media and everything has kind of come about. So we feel like these athletes are closer to us, like we actually know them or somehow we are closer in proximity as far as like physical capabilities.

They're like, oh, he does it. I can do it too. People don't understand. These are the 99th percentile of the 99th percentile who we're dealing with. These are people who are going to be physically successful no matter what they do. You know what I mean? They could be an MMA fighter. They could be a basketball player.

They just decided to start punching people opposed to throw a ball and through a hoop. These people are really just special people. So, yeah, the more is better we're actually finding out that more just ends up being more for most people and i mean in josh's case you know if we really kind of track his career he kept he was able to sustain that for a while until he was about what like 28 or so right and he's been wrestling doing this at a high level for probably 18 years at that point, you only have, your window is only so big. And it's going to be bigger for the special people who are more physically gifted. But, you know, everyone has a certain amount of time.

And we're finding out that the better we take care of ourselves, the longer we can kind of sustain that, right? I won't say a name name but the guy that we were just talking about an intern of mine got to train one of the most successful um quarterbacks of all time yeah it's like hey man what do you do with this person it's like i bring him his coffee you're a strength coach and you brought him his coffee he's like yeah he goes he just told me straight out he's like i can't afford to go ahead and do all this stuff he goes like i got nine hours of tape to watch yeah i'm like oh i get it okay so more is more you know i mean more is better watching you know film and figuring out these defenses

and knowing where the holes are so you can go ahead and throw these passes to people and you know make a million million dollars right um so it's you know it's going to be one of those things where hopefully and more and more people are figuring it out like if you pay a little bit more attention to you know we again something that we say is you know you got to you got to work out twice as hard outside of the gym than you do inside of the gym and if you're going to ever really decide that you want to make something out of yourself in any sort of capacity. So there are more people figuring this out, whether it's too late or right on time for them or how much they actually understand.

We're going to end up finding out. But, I mean, it's one of those things where people are starting to see this. You're going to see a lot of, what's that watch, Whoop? There's the Omega Wave. There's HRV. And people are starting to track this stuff. to see a lot of what's that watch whoop there's you know the omega wave there's you know hrv and people are starting to track this stuff um i think it's it's starting to become a trend where people are just wearing a bunch of shit just because it's it's popular and it's cool but there are people who are actually starting to understand what that means and how to base their training

off of it so but you're but you're facing a lot of stuff you actually you have to know what the data points are understand them and know how to base things off of that. And you also have to start to kind of convince some of these old school guys like a cause check or an NFL football coach who's been doing it. Look, son, I've been doing this for 40 fucking years, and more is better. Like, we're putting on pads, and we're going to just go full all out all the time. We're like, you can't do that. Like like i got seven fucking rings that say i can like okie dokie yeah like there's no convincing you but we're we are building you know data sets and data points that hopefully there is going to be a trend towards having healthier safer athletes around

for a longer period of time because i know growing up for me i remember people with careers of 15 20 years and now the average nfl career is four years right you know the average you know i think the average uh basketball is seven well you gotta you gotta keep in mind uh a team and a coach can cycle through players i mean for every player that goes you can just bring another in. So the success of the coach isn't necessarily the longevity of the athlete. Exactly. And, again, I won't be able to say names here, but there's a coach, an NFL coach, who they cut down their roster, right? So they start with, I think, 96 or so, right, through training camp and everything,

and then they cut it in half. So a strength and conditioning coach friend of mine was just like okay so we're doing all this work and everything all that just cycling through everything so so fast and then they cut half the people because they they have to and they're doing the same amount of work and he's like coach you can't you can't do this you're literally you've already doubled their work before when you had double the people so now you're adding this this much on and he's just like this is how i do it like you're not going to be around you nor any of these guys guess what happened everybody got injured they had horrible season he ends up getting fired you know this shouldn't be a surprise but he's been doing it for 30 years and son i know more is better so we're getting a trend where these there's a lot of

people behind the scenes going that's that's not gonna work and there's more and more people are listening to that guy now so i think that's cool um but it's also one of those things where you know for me i see a tendency for some people to use that as an excuse as well like whoa well my biometrics say that i can't right right do this that's right i don't fucking swear i can't do it have to you have to try it's like you can't blame it on like no my heart heart rates yeah yeah a little too high like Like, dude, just you got to, you know what? I mean, there are going to be days where you have to do something and you may not be ready. But that's when you're physically, it's when you're mentally going to get stronger and you're going to physically be better for it.

I'm sure there's time when you step in the ring like, that guy looks really fucking big. I don't want to get punched in the face by that guy. But you know what? I'm going to go ahead and do it and you're better for it, probably. You may not remember, you know what i'm gonna go ahead and do it and you're better for it probably you may not remember you know a couple years but i mean well i mean i think it's good especially you may not want to spend that time near competition but really far out let's spend some time in the red yes you know you're not supposed to be i think we talked about this with uh so andy and b mac yeah yeah we're talking, you know, it's not good to be optimal all day, every day.

And it's like you need to spend some time in some discomfort. And that might mean, you know, a couple weeks in the red and then take a week where you dial it back. But you're supposed to push in that area. Again, not the week of competition. Right. But, you know, and that's where those biometrics can come in handy. You just now got in the red. Right.

And someone else has already been there for a week. You can keep pushing a little bit further. And I think that's really important for people to kind of realize. They have to, you know, where you're going to go red, you're going to go red. It's going to be vastly different. But that should start to influence how we train, right? So you have to break it in order to know how to kind of fix it and put it back together. And I'm not going to tell people, you know, go know go out there get hurt but you're going to have to

figure out where your limit is where your line is yeah and then you know just get close to that you don't have to step over it often if ever but if you're never pushed to that point you're never going to know where it's got to step over at least twice i i would agree i mean i really do think so and especially if it's in the off season if it's far away and when you do step over the red and into the red and you either over train or you know you get a little banged up you find out what works for you recovery wise yeah like oh you know what i really what really works for me is this like how do you know that because i fucked myself up and i fixed myself and now i'm better for it yeah like oh all right well then yeah you got it you you figured it out i don't need to help you tell, well, then, yeah, you got it. You figured it out.

I don't need to help you tell you what you need to do. Whatever you figured out, it works, you know, at least for this point in time. Right, right. I think that's really difficult to coach because I feel like as more information gets out and the hybridization of fitness continues to accelerate, so people are borrowing across streams hybridization well there is though i mean you've got domain hybridization sensation we you know andy and i recently did a lot of work on like understanding like the roots of

the fitness industry and it boiled down to like three basic components and then there as a market work there was one that was basically derived from the aesthetic fitness community that was descendants of Bob Hoffman and Joe Weider. So you got your bodybuilding and then those environments look like what are classified by our communities as globogems. So you got cardio separating from the weights physically, metaphorically,

and that was influenced by the creation of GIH in Sweden and the first cardio labs, basically, and the development of cardiorespiratory understanding. And so that ushered in science that understood physiology only from the metrics of what was happening from the cardiorespiratory perspective. So then... You're doing good.

I'm doing good. I'm going to stay with it. I'm going to stay with it. Fucking words, man. Pompadour is going to stay with it. Modal domains. So broad modal domains. Ten general skills.

Constantly varied. The next one was strength and conditioning. So it was like, okay, periodization. We're going to stimulate you. We know generally what's going to stimulate you we know generally what's going to happen when we stimulate these percentages these volumes science coming in to corroborate all those kind of stimulus problem is in those environments that would take either a a really good coach or two and a half hours to train then a functional fitness

model comes it combines a lot of this stuff right so now these three giant bubbles are starting to kind of merge with each other, and all of them have an array of information. And then so as coaches, one of the things that I find challenging is that people are getting a lot of different content thrown at them. And so they're saying to the coach, yeah, but I've got these X, Y, and Z ideas. And you're going, well, okay, let's look at some data points. And then they've got nine things and nine different sort of perspectives coming from these three general bubbles. And they're following 900 other people who are, you know, seen as expert in all those things.

I see it, you know, as coaches, I'm sure you guys see it all the time, too. You know, you see someone come in. I see there's a guy who, oh, okay. I'm with you. More's coming out. Who I, you know know i follow a couple coaches online as well you know the instagram and everything and i and i can literally tell you like i can spin through some stuff and i can see somebody doing a movement i'm like

i know who's going to be doing this later on today because i saw it and you know whether it's a interesting a face pull using the reverse hyper or something just weird banded face pull on the reverse hyper. It's actually really good. Give it a try. It's been done. But you can say it really well. No way it can hurt you.

It's all good. And you see people doing this stuff, and I see people doing this stuff, and I'm just like, I guess it doesn't necessarily really matter what you did. I said do some upper back stuff. But you don't have to. People people are just reaching and following you know the the first thing and whether it's the social media whether our you know attention spans are so small whatever

ends up being it's just like oh that's it that's the answer it's like no that guy is telling you to do this the that variation worked for him read the caption because yeah exactly he's you know he's been doing it for 15 years and it really worked for him. He's never had a shoulder injury. You doing it this one time for one week isn't necessarily going to add up to kind of the same thing, but it is important that people end up being able to try this stuff and have the freedom to do so. Again, we're kind of talking about creating an environment. It's okay. I don't care what you do just do some upper back your upper back sucks oh okay cool yeah right but eventually you know you're gonna have to guess what you're gonna probably come back and do some rows and like some shrugs and some like rear delt raises because you're just like i don't think that really worked it's like it's because that guy did rows and you know rear delt stuff for 15 years and he got so goddamn bored with it that he put a band on the reverse hyper and started doing this stuff. They're like, oh.

So you've got to let him go ahead and do this stuff and figure it out. And as a coach, there's so many people like, no, it's my way or nothing. I'm like, you've got to be able to bend a little bit. If you give me the first two movements of what I put on the board, what I gave to you, I'll just give you body parts. Just go make that feel good. Go do some rows and lats. I don't care. Do whatever you want. You do some hamstrings, do some abs, get out of here. What do you want me to do? I don't care. Do whatever it is that you want. It's like, see everybody else doing some stuff. There's three examples. Go follow that. Go open up your phone. You get 16 things. You'll find out what works for you. If it doesn't work for you, throw it away.

Don't keep hoping that it's eventually going to go ahead and work for you. So I think that's kind of the, as a coach and as an athlete and someone who's kind of getting into things, you have to be able to use something, know if it works or not, know how long it works or not, and then eventually kind of stack them on top of each other. So you allow a little bit of a leash, a little bit of space. I allow for a lot of space.

Were you always like that? Or is this something that's changed over time? Were you like, were you one of those coaches like, it has to be my way? And then over time, you're like, it doesn't really matter that much. I think going in, going into things, I knew instinctively that it really

didn't necessarily matter. Because everyone wants to, oh, we've got to train the, you know, this right here. It's like, well, you don't necessarily have to just keep squatting to get better at squatting. I bet you if you build up your hamstrings and your glutes in whatever way that you want to, your squat will kind of get better. But to start, I was just like, no, we're all just going to do this because I want to see what fucking works and what doesn't, you know, that was, you know, very early on just experimenting and seeing what did work for a larger group of people. And then you kind of see, you see these individual variations. So it's definitely a learned

thing over, over a longer period of time. Um, there's always going to be people. And again, it's just like, you know, that front squats with the kettlebell work really well for you where they hurt your knee. I don't fucking care. Just build up your legs. It doesn't matter to me. So I give a lot of leash to people. It's just like, go ahead and do whatever you end up wanting to do. Just make this feel good.

Get a pump, kind of look good, feel good, and then go ahead and get out of here. And I think that's what people end up understanding, that there are so many different ways. A guy named Buddy Morris, Coach X, who's been an NFL strength and conditioning coach for a long, long time. I personally think he said it best. He's like, the best thing about this industry is that everything works. So the worst thing about this industry is that everything works. So a true coach is going to be able to understand and take what works and just be able to just put it all together over a workout over a week over a month over a year over years and they're going to be able to

really get you from here to your goal and draw you a straight line through it but you get so so many people so tripped up and so many new people like we were talking about you know just you know jumping online and becoming the next greatest coach because oh i had him do this and it worked like of course it fucking worked it's only going to work for four weeks and then you got to change it to something else do you know what happens there do you know what happens 12 weeks down the line when now you're dealing with some sort of an injury or anything along those lines like yeah but did you see that fucking move that i put on instagram like yeah i saw that thanks for fucking up my guy this is great i can't wait to undo what you just did congratulations do you

follow me on instagram i do you you've you match my moves you go in the gym all the time one for one dope this explains a lot about your physique right now it does it does yes but you know i i love i try and you know people are like are like, hey, who should I read? Who should I follow? I think you should follow everybody. I like to see what people are doing, whether it's good or bad. And, you know, I'm not necessarily always the person to make that judgment, but I want to see what other people are doing.

I like people when people are creative. Because eventually, like you said, you know, there's only so many different things that we can go ahead and do. And you're like, oh, maybe the bandy thing off of said, you know, there's only so many different things that we can go ahead and do. And you're like, oh, maybe the bandy thing off of this, you know, that feels really good for people. I'm like, oh, okay, let's just break that in. It doesn't matter. Sometimes the line between good and bad is very fine. We interviewed David Weck, the inventor of the Bosu ball recently,

and that was like for all of us for very different reasons, very fascinating to say the least. But the one thing. Did he intend it for people to do barbell squats and standing on them? No. No, come on, really? You're kidding me. So we did.

We should have covered that, yeah. We kind of did. I ended up doing kettlebell swings on it though. Yeah? There you go. He had some very unique things to say. Super unique things to say. Super unique things to say. At one point, Doug bitch slapped him four times.

Because he invented a way to protect a skull underneath taking blows. Which seemed to work. Because Doug was kind of unleashing by the third and fourth hit. But one of the things that was really compelling. Mike was just sort of like, yeah, this is one of the things that was really compelling like oh mike was just sort of like yeah this is like one of my dreams and doug and i're like hold on dude like you gotta slow down because he was coming so fast right with so much information so he had us get on a bosu ball and basically externally rotate and get on the fourth metatarsal and squeeze in and i'll be damn man i felt glutes adductors all these muscles that like i feel like i pretty iq pretty damn well

when i'm teaching somebody how to squat the next week i went in and immediately just started i we have a bosu ball floating around the gym i pulled it out and just started putting people on it and started doing what he had us do. I was like, fuck, the progression is so much faster than the big tool set that I have to teach somebody to squat. And I was like, okay. And then same thing, he had us deadlift in a similar position on our toes right feeling the same muscles and i'm like okay this i like i i kind of get it but then just to create the sheer creativity in this like an apparent lunacy like was actually effective like i took back back to the gym and people had kinetic dysfunction and really poor motor patterning were suddenly like, oh, I get it.

Right. Like you've been telling me that for three years. I'm like, fuck. Fucking bozu ball. On a bozu ball. We're back around to a goddamn bozu ball. That's coaching and parenting, though. You're going to have to say the same thing over and over and over again.

But you have to say it so many different ways until someone understands it someone gets it i have a guy named jeremy avia who um you know deadlifted 737 when he came to me ended up getting him he ended up pulling uh 837 within about six months okay and there was there was a point in time when he went from 780 i think to about 80 or 820 or so. And he deadlift sumo. And he just yanks the bar off the ground. Like the most violent thing you've ever seen in the world. And you're just like, oh, my God.

He has both his biceps still. I was like, hey. I was like, I just need you to stand up a little bit taller. Just don't yank on the bar. And I've been telling them this for four or five months right comes in one day and has just like a 50 pound pr all out of nowhere i'm just like you're standing up straighter you're not yanking on the bar as much you're really just being tall as you kind of go through your movement it's like what'd you do it's like well you know i was watching i don't even remember what it was and they told me that i shouldn't yank on the bar

and i should stay taller and i was just like what you motherfucker i was like that was mine i said that months ago i was like but it's one of those things where you just got to be like cool good for you like why are you bleeding out of your mouth jesse like i don't worry about it man it's not me chewing on my tongue because i've been telling you this shit for months. But he just needed someone else to tell it to him in a different way. And it kind of clicked. And I mean, I think for you, that shows, you know, and I hate to say this, but just how high level of a coach you are, you know, and how you can actually understand. He hates to say it. I know.

I'm going to hate to say it. He's at it. If there's some sort of kinesthetic awareness that you can teach to people, I think that's amazing. I used to call it, you know, kind of learning through violence. And you just have – I remember that, yeah, I would just hit you as you're going squatting. It's like, stop it, stop it. Like, no, tighter here.

And you're like, oh, there, tight. Like, oh, okay. So, I mean, it's one of those things. If you can get someone to feel it and understand it in a different way, you know, I'm all for anything. But now the whole thing is is, all right, cool. Now everyone's squatting and deadlifting on their toes or something.

Where do you go from there? Right, right. Is that just a teaching point? That's great. Maybe that's a starting point. Now do you introduce a barbell on top of this? No, probably not. Probably not.

Tippy toes. Tippy toes. Tippy toes. It's X-level shit. It is. You get on your tippy toes and you yank the bar violently. As hard as you can. Absolutely. Keep the balls of your feet off the ground.

Toes only. Got it. Toes and heels. Round your back. Toes and heels. No ball of your foot. Ooh. Handstand deadlifts.

All right. I think we've gotten to that point. Learning through violence. There you go. It works, man. It works. Where can people find more about you? TuckBetweens.com, right? learning through violence it works man it works where can people find more about you

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