Barbell Shrugged - Prioritizing Stability Before Strength, Injury Management, And Finding Clarity In Your Goals With Dr. Jordan Shallow — Muscle Maven Radio Episode #12Prioritizing Stability Before Strength, Injury Management, And Finding Clarity In Your Goals With Dr. Jo

Episode Date: April 25, 2019

Dr. Jordan Shallow (@the_muscle_doc) is a chiropractor, strength coach, and a competitive powerlifter who champions getting movement right, from the outset. Jordan's patients range from world-class athletes to weekend warriors. Understanding the needs and demands of each individual is the cornerstone on which his clinical practice is built. When he’s not working on his Pre-Script program, traveling the world teaching strength and movement seminars with Ben Pakulski, or hosting his own podcast RX’d Radio, he’s competing in powerlifting.   Ashleigh sits down with fellow Canadian beefcake Dr. Jordan Shallow, a chiropractor, strength coach, founder of Pre-Script, and competitive power lifter to talk about his new programs; traveling the world teaching muscle building and training with Ben Pakulski; his recent injuries and how it effects his training; and why it’s important to surround yourself with the right people.   Minute Breakdown:   2 - 16 What Jordan is up to, whether he gets more nervous presenting or competing, and what kind of impact he wants to have on the industry      16 –32  What exactly is his Pre-Script program? Progressions of mobility, stability and strength and understanding load management as a means of injury prevention   32 - 40  How he gets better at his job by having people poke holes in his theories, and why it’s crucial to have the right people around you who will tell you the truth and offer constructive criticism   40 – 46  There’s more to training than volume and intensity; talking about adaptation, stability, and learning, and his work with Ben Pakulski teaching Muscle Camp seminars around the world   46 – 55 A discussion of the best methods and channels for communicating your message; how to make social media work for you   55 –  60 The importance of “clarity in vision but flexibility in process” when setting and working towards goals     60 – 1:14:00 Jordan talks about his injuries and how he’s training for an upcoming powerlifting competition, the difference between injury prevention and injury risk management and how travel to other countries like Lebanon and Israel helps him gain perspective   1:14:00 – HIs upcoming projects including a Goodlife programming assessment and preparation course   ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Show notes: http://www.shruggedcollective.com/mmr-shallow ----------------------------------------------------------------------   ► Subscribe to Shrugged Collective's Channel Here http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Shrugged Collective is a network of fitness, health and performance shows that help people achieve their physical and mental health goals.  Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first Barbell Shrugged podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast. Find Shrugged Collective and their flagship show Barbell Shrugged here: SUBSCRIBE ON ITUNES ► http://bit.ly/ShruggedCollectiveiTunes WEBSITE ► https://www.ShruggedCollective.com INSTAGRAM ► https://instagram.com/shruggedcollective FACEBOOK ► https://facebook.com/barbellshruggedpodcast TWITTER ► http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged

Hey everybody, it's your girl. It's the girl for Shrug Collective. It's the Muscle Maven. You're listening to Muscle Maven Radio and today I am chatting with The Muscle Doc, aka The Beard, aka Jordan Shallow. He is a chiropractor, he's a strength coach, he has his own podcast called RxRadio, and he's developed at this point a number of programs to help us get stronger and move better, including a muscle camp seminar that he does with fellow large Canadian, Ben Pekulski, and they've been traveling all over the world teaching people. He has a program called Prescript and he's actually working on a coaching program for Good Life Fitness across Canada. He's teaching their trainers how to do better assessments of

their clients and what to do with those assessments. And he's doing all of this while crushing powerlifting competitions and juggling all of these different areas. And he's not yet 30. So frankly, I think Jordan needs to chill out a bit, but that's just me. Anyway, in our chat, we talk about a lot of things like the difference between injury prevention and injury risk management. We talk about all of his programs and how to use them and who uses them and how to understand his approach

to lifting and movement. And we talk about some kind of gnarly injuries he's received recently and how he's working through them while training for a powerlifting competition. And we get into the process of learning and building a business and putting yourself out there and how to balance promoting yourself and what you do while maintaining your sanity and your dignity, which of course leads to talking about social media and DMs. And that's really just the tip, the tip of the iceberg, as it were. I don't know what you were thinking, pervs. So that's my intro. I hope you enjoy my illuminating and always very

honest conversation with the one and only Jordan shallow. Oh, so I was, yeah, it was 290 pounds and I walked from gold to Venice in Santa Monica to J Farouk is like kick ass condo, like in Santa Monica, dude, the entire podcast.

I was just like, so you never caught your breath. I sounded like, did you ever watch Malcolm in the middle? I sounded like the black kid in the wheelchair like wheezing in between breaths sounds unhealthy yeah no nothing i do is for health like we're in the health and fitness podcast i don't know if we qualify by any of these any of these criteria well actually muscle maven radio thank you very much it is absolutely health and fitness and wellness. But my real kind of jam is I am trying to interview people who are very good at what they do and learn why they're very good at what they do, what their sort of mindset is, how there may be different

from people who haven't reached that point yet, your sort of outlook is like the things you tell yourself the the processes you put in place to be successful all that stuff so you don't have to be able to walk a couple blocks without breathing heavily to yeah to achieve a certain level of success performance comes in various disguises it's like good art i think exactly yeah so one of the questions that i wanted to ask you, actually, it was a question that I asked you last night while we were in the middle of watching some Irishmen fight each other at Madison Square Garden. No big deal.

And things got a little exciting and we didn't get to finish the conversation. But I was asking you if when you, before you compete, if you get nervous and you said not as nervous as if you are about to like maybe speak in front of somebody or something yeah um so like i do a lot of like lecturing and educating now um outside of clinical practice and i still compete a couple times a year i you're more certain like powerlifting is a unique sport in the sense that it's exercise like football like al pacino can come in in between like halftime and then give you the best like any given Sunday speech you've ever heard.

And it's like fire you up. Where it's like I don't really care if like, you know, Teddy Atlas comes or like one of the corner man from last night. Like he can come before my last deadlift and like give me the best speech. Like Mick to my Rocky. And it's like I'm not going to be able to deadlift a thousand pounds. It's like I kind of know my limitations but don't you want like i watch all these like you know lead ups to somebody doing a squat and there's people like smashing them on the back as hard as they can

and tell them to fuck off and like yeah just get them really fired up you can hate your childhood as much as you want but i don't know it's not gonna make you that much stronger i think that's unfortunate like the weight on the bar is is pretty slow like it's you always want to be towing that line between like you know chaos and order when it comes to like weights like well across the board but it's like you want to push you want to find the limit but it's like you're when you compete you kind of know more where that limit is based off your training numbers where it's like any i mean that's kind of why i lecture now is like that's how i learn. Like I

travel around to find people that can poke holes in my theory because it's like, or theories or approach to things. Cause then it's like, every time I come out of a seminar and the, it fortifies the material that I know. And then it also caused me to burn off dead wood and things that don't necessarily hold water. So it's like every single time it's like you know you get blitzkrieg with questions and it used to be a lot more before but i've sort of adapted on the fly and it's scary to be exposed like like the worst would be if i had to lecture in a singlet that'd be like the ultimate stress that i'd be nervous as fuck unless everybody else was in singlets that doesn't work that whole like oh just picture everyone naked thing.

It's a great. That's just distracting. We're all mediocre at best. Yeah. So I definitely get more nervous presenting now, I think. But the more I present, the more, which is not good, but the more sure I am of the content I have because it's held up against you know however many thousands of people now and like you get the odd person who like pushes back and that's like what I really do it for like my I start off every seminar with it's not about giving you the answers it's about helping you ask better questions

so when I get good questions like that really kind of gets my rocks off like that's what I do it for well this is how you're building a stronger argument or theory as you're saying. You're having people poke holes in it so that you can think in ways that you wouldn't or see holes that you wouldn't otherwise have people outside telling you. And then you can build a stronger message as a result of it. And it just makes for almost a sick amount of confidence. It's not okay. But it's human nature.

I don't know if you studied history at all but like in world war ii when the germans would bomb the british absolutely terrorize the place and they go into the tunnels and they thought they were breaking their spirits but what they're actually doing was fortifying those that survived so they would get very brash and brazen and like british people would like hear the siren so then we go have a cup of tea and be like well i'm still here so like fuck you you know what i mean so it's like it's a it's a weird kind of morose comparison i'm making but every time i finish a seminar it's like that's 40 more people who at the very least that's 44 people who are polite enough to not say anything but at the same time it's like i've thought about the stuff that i present on for the better part of a decade it's polluted my days and

nights so i i like to think that, especially with social media and putting a lot of it on the internet, it's like, I'm not just reaching, you know, 40 people in Alexandria, Virginia, or a couple hundred people in Australia in January. It's like, this reaches a lot of years. So the more it goes out there and the more it can be potentially bombarded and the more it stays intact in one piece the more confident i am with what it is that i'm bringing to the table i mean if you're going to reach megalomaniac levels of confidence in what you're in what you're you're saying then at least you're you're doing it as a result of being like in the trenches and experiencing it

you're not just like that didn't just originate out of nowhere from having no exposure to other people and talking about things and learning the holes that you have like i mean you're not just like that didn't just originate out of nowhere from having no exposure to other people and talking about things and learning the holes that you have like i mean you're just you're it's trial by fire you're going out and doing it and putting that out into the world and adjusting or not as people are giving the information back to you i mean you're doing it the right way yeah and there's a weird there's a weird like revenge of the nerds culture that's coming into like the health and fitness space in the past like 10 years 10 years or so like where shreds photoshop marketing is now giving way to like massage research phd guys and it's like they all have their own ulterior motives and building themselves up as as someone who looks good or someone who is smart so it's like for me

there's a difference between evidence and research. So being in clinical practice and being beholden in fields that are evidence-based, I run into the issue a lot with people who operate kind of in my arena that are research-based. And now there's a difference between research and evidence. So it's like it only emboldens my approach further. And I haven't had to say this, but in my back pocket, like when I talk about squat mechanics, like I break it down to the level of like applied biomechanics and like here's joint function. Here's muscle action. Like here's how we integrate the two.

Here's how we do it safely. I'm not just saying this based off my own experience, but I can play that game too. Like I haven't had to, but I've come close to basically being like, okay, all right. I understand the heaviest thing you lifted is clipboard. I understand that the abstracts you read and the infographics on Instagram said this, but what do you squat again? Oh, that's right. Not 750.

All right. Then how about you sit the fuck down? So it's like a weird cross pollination of motivation. Like when I'm dead lifting, I'm thinking about validating my, my academics. And then when I'm the, the opposite is also true. So like when I'm studying and when I talk to people, I'm trying to actually combat the level of meatheadedness that comes off. Like I know what I look like when I walk into a room.

Like I know that's a limitation in people's perception of me. But is it a limitation based on the world that you're in and what you're trying to communicate? Is it a limitation based on the world that you're in and what you're trying to communicate? Is it really limiting? Um, it's when you, cause the fitness space, relatively speaking, is very small. So it's like, I know, I mean, not of a scarcity mindset. Like I don't necessarily want to just populate the same, the same market as everyone else. Like I want to bring this to people.

Cause that's where it's most profound. Like, you know, it's cool. It's cool getting someone who can bench 500 to get a bench 600 like that's really difficult and you kind of have to know your way around navigating like the body to make sure you can scale that progression past that point of diminishing returns but it's equally as benefit beneficial or maybe profound to get someone like who's 65 to be able to just like walk up the stairs and like not you break a rib at 65 you're gonna have pneumonia within like six months

and you'd be dead you break a hip you got a year right so it's like people don't realize like the ramifications of getting it wrong like no one's gonna pat you on the back for this shit right so I think in the market I want to reach and having a profound impact long term and like i know it's weird for a 28 year old to talk about like legacy but like

switching the paradigm i think and kind of what i'm structuring with the books i'm writing and the presentations i'm i'm doing the lectures and and and all that is i want it to reach people that that it wouldn't reach right it'll it'll bounce around the echo chamber of instagram and the fitness industry and podcasts or whatever but that's not necessarily the profound impact i want to have like it's a bit more than that so i know like when i approach situations out in public where it's like i have a chance to reach a new market i i have to i have to be able to walk the walk i have to be able to talk the walk. I have to be able to talk the talk. Because it's like I know my look, being 6'2", 70, with a beard, is like not the most palatable. For a 65-year-old who's with a broken rib.

Yeah, and it's like I had some personal training clients when I worked at Stanford University, like on the side from working with the rugby team. And it's like that's exactly the kind of people I had, like 10-year professors who looked at me and go, are you fucking serious? But it's like, kids will come to him and he needs to know this at a level

that's better than anyone. So it's like, he looks at me and goes, all right, kid, what do you got? And it's like, I gotta be PhD level dissertation, on the ball, adaptive. So it's, I think a lot of the problems come from like a scarcity mindset. Like everyone tries to you know

one up everyone it's like guys can't we just like paint the fringes like there's a whole it's like a weird simba pride rock like everything the light touches is yours but the light is shining on a very small part of the world it's like and you see a lot of like infighting and just stupid petty semantics like people don't like people because of like like the research they just like who the fuck cares guys we all just get along we all just get a room for all of us or just be agnostic like do your own thing like stay in your own lane i'm a big fan of that big fan of that right easier said than done sometimes the world that we're living in but i'm a huge fan of that if for nothing else but your own mental health and clarity i think it's and it's a weird again legacy

wisdom 28 like we're not old but it's like i used to be the worst like i literally made a you used to be the worst i used to be worse than i am now but like there's been a moment of transcendence in my i got city miles on me all right like 28 has seen some miles but i literally know facebook like reminds you every year. Like, hey, remember the dumb... Of how the worst you used to be? Yeah, like, hey, remember Frosted Tips and Puka Shell necklaces? You fucking asshole.

I made a post. That is humbling. You're right. It's so bad. But it's good because hopefully it's a contrast. If your Facebook memories don't make you cringe, you got to... There it is. You got to get some introspection.

You need to look within. If they're not like, oh, fuck. Turn it on. Turn on what happened in this day thing. Just so it's like you need that yardstick of growth, I think. That is a fantastic quote that I'm already going to take from this. If your Facebook memories don't make you cringe, reevaluate your life. That's really accurate. So point to this being is i made a facebook post rogue had came out with a

swivel bar thing it was like for your standing desk and like kelly starrett was like a sponsored ad on facebook and i i've learned to appreciate kelly's role in the industry and like being a physical therapist or him being a physical therapist me being a chiropractor and like me like he he he fucking Lewis and Clark this shit he was our sack of Jouia you know he he paved the way for anyone who has like anyone's a manual therapist who looks to leverage their business on Instagram like let's not call it any more than it is always a debt of gratitude him. But I remember him selling this thing in a sponsored ad. And I wrote, here's an idea. Why don't we all just pin Kelly Starrett under our desk

and kick him in the head repeatedly all day until he stops selling us useless shit? And I was just like, I've said that on the internet. It doesn't go away. And every year it comes back and being like, dopey piece of shit, dopey piece of shit, dopey piece of shit. Canadians have a lot of anger simmering under that polite surface and that's the biggest misconception in living with states it's like oh look I thought you guys are supposed

to be nice it's like no I'm not gonna be your errand boy yeah no you just don't really know any Canadians very well like yeah maybe we're friendly like hi nice to meet you kind of friendly but if you actually get to know us there's a lot more I mean that's where the humor comes from people who are funny never are not fucked up you know what i mean like there's there's like darkness and and anger that makes people funny and i think that there's a lot i mean some of the best funniest people in the world are canadian because we've got that i mean we can be self-deprecating but there's like some other shit going on there i think only to be one-off but british the uk absolutely just some other shit going on there. I think only to be one up by the British,

the UK, I think are just like, I think it's just their weather shittier. I think that's the only thing that like, it just hardens them even more. A hundred percent. Like there's zero sensitivity, political,

any culture where like, and I apologize to your audience in advance, but Australians are pretty funny as well. We're like the word contest can be used in an endearing fashion is like, okay, these people get it. They're not like there's no parent teacher interviews being called or anything like that it's just like it's a term of endearment and it's like okay these you're deranged i don't know if i'm ready to go down

i kind of want to go down a like rabbit hole about how americans are actually like the most uptight about stuff like this and sometimes don't have the best sense of humor because they are like people are just so ready to like be angry at each other and get like pissy about stuff i don't know if i want to go down there so we'll see if we circle i don't know if i want to lose 78 of my audience yeah yeah like 94 yeah um but i do okay so i want to go back and try to stay on target a little bit and i would never ask you to um speak in a lay person's fashion and speak to the lowest common denominator because I know that you don't do that so that's fine but I would love for you to just tell me what Prescript is oh easy Prescript well it's two things it's basically it's scalable corrective

exercise interventions for athletes and that's like our one arm of the company and the second is an integrated model where we take these corrective exercise and we put it into proper periodization and programming for right now olympic lifting and weight uh and powerlifting but soon to be there's a hypertrophy vein coming as well and we've been we've been asked or tasked with um doing crossfit. So it's like we started, my business partner and I, Jordan Junta, he's a former CrossFit athlete, chiropractor, went to school together. It started with basically trying to scale our office online.

We're not like racking correctly. I couldn't tell you the last time I adjusted someone's neck. It's silly, especially when dealing primarily with athletes. So there's a dissonance between the kind of your rehab corrective exercise that you're going to get from your geriatric physical therapy class and what actually scales to the level of the athlete. So we spent, God knows, we've been doing this for like three years now. We're only now sort of just breaking into the sphere, the space a little bit. So it started off with like shoulder, hip and spine, roughly speaking. Like how can we take someone from point A to point B and catch as many people as we can in progressions of mobility, stability and strength?

And we frame it around dysfunction, but like a lot of people come to us in pain. I was going to ask, so is it different? Is it a different approach for people who are coming that have dysfunctional movement from having squatted for 10 years versus somebody who is completely new and wants to like proactively learn proper mechanics? results the a to b point is is still the same but it's just um it's whatever your objective outcome is right some people will see their objective outcome right away be pain like pain down regulation from improving function and others will actually just see an improvement in performance so that's how it started but then over time and after we started to to manage a decent amount of clients and the we start to get like some feedback like oh like my shoulder is still this or my hip still this it's like okay like and we look back at our program

it's like god like for a scalable like kind of everyone basic four six week progression like this is pretty airtight and we tried a few different things and nothing really worked so then what i started to do is people who emailed me after i'd be like send me your program like send me your current workout program. And this is like where I think a lot of people start to miss. And this is what I missed in my own training for the longest time, which led to a torn pec and torn quad is respecting load management as a means of injury prevention. Right.

So you can't out corrective exercise, bad exercise, right? Like you can't look to be on linear periodization forever, progressive overload and think like your bird dog is going to hold your SI joint together. It's like, it's not going to happen. Right. So then we got us thinking, it's like, okay, how do we take our principles of like mobility, stability, and strength, and then integrate that into proper loading sport specific to weightlifting and Olympic weightlifting or powerlifting and Olympic weightlifting. So then we started just continuous programming,-based programming so now when people sign up you have the options like yeah you're confident with your programming you you want just to look at your exercise intervention

through a different lens here this is your adjunct program that goes with whatever you're doing you want to do the full stop you want to corrective exercise and exercise correctly then members sign up and go through programs we've written so we have members that sign in and now they just continue month to month so the initial 12 week block is kind of like foundation and now they kind of splinter off like squat specific protocol deadlift specific protocol hypertrophy protocol peaking phases for power lifting meets peaking phases for olympic lifting meets um so it's yeah it's it's been interesting just to see like it is a different offering in the space like it's more than reps and sets like there's a there's a qualitative component to it

so we have like a private group that people are constantly posting videos and where most people are posting in other in other sort of platforms like this here's my pr top set it's like let me see your single leg rdl let's start there because when the wheels go off the bus it's that's going to be the crack in the foundation that leads to that pr squat being a blown meniscus or whatever you know what i mean so like it's it's just a different it's a different group like Honestly, our members are very acute. They're podcast listeners. They're friends.

They're clients. And it's like they're patients. And you see them interact. And it's like, again, just a different lens. They're looking at it from such a qualitative analysis, a qualitative standpoint over a quantitative. And I think that's like, to paraphrase my friend, Mr. Pakulski, it's like if you can't if you can't

quantify a stimulus or qualify a stimulus you shouldn't quantify it yeah and a lot of people just these programs exist in the realm of reps and sets and it's like rep one can be totally different than rep two it's like it's a different exercise different adaptation right so we really want to make sure that people are nailing the fundamentals and the fundamentals aren't banded external rotation geriatric shit like that's not going to scale to a 400 pound bench press you know what i mean so taking our core principles from kind of the inception of our programming and then integrating it in with actual scalable like periodization and and like actual correct exercise selection and order and

deloads and all that so that in a nutshell is kind of what we're about god that's so much it's a lot it's so much it's gone through so many iterations like it's crazy me and jordan are my business partner named jordan as well and we just we sat back the other day and now we have um like a we have a team around us and like we have a cto and an operations officer and like they're both like adults, which thank fucking God they're adults and they're like super smart. And our tech guys like hacking APIs and I'm Googling what an API is. So, yeah, it's a lot of fun. And it's I think I don't think we've seen the beginning of this type of programming yet.

Like I think a lot of people think that it's a, it's a, it's rather like a, a saturated market. Like it's, it's not blue water, but I think you'll see it's moving forward. It's where people are going to gravitate towards. And I think mediums like this

help, help just give clarity to the difference between one and the next. Like there are people who host or put up scalable programs like this,

like basically like online coaching that everyone does that couldn't talk an hour about it yeah outside of like well this is what i do right so having that having that extra layer that depth where it's like hey like why are we doing like front squats for this like four week cycle it's like listen to episode 104 go to halfway point that's why yeah the amount of content you're putting out is pretty intense um so if i was going to sign up for this how hands-on are you guys what's the like you know am i downloading a pdf that i'm applying to my own programming and you're relying on me to be smart enough to understand it and apply it or how much interaction do i have with you how does

that work oh so and so with the two veins right now is if you go corrective exercise um everything's in our app so it's all app based everything duration of say you're doing static stretching say you're doing stability work duration or assigned repetitions so it's signed sets it's all in the app so you sign up it gets prompted download the app it's all videos so like that's the thing we had to literally shoot our entire library because like you just have like this very simple like you know we're gonna do like hip circle walks it's like why the fuck are you gonna do that that doesn't make any sense you need to be doing like oh where's your asymmetry oh you have a an instability through your anterior oblique sling you need to do bulgarian split squats with an ipsilateral load.

It's like, oh, that video doesn't exist. Okay, so we literally shot, Jesus, five, six, seven. It's constantly expanding every time we're together. Does your beard grow in the videos? Like you can see from the beginning to the end. So the first one, I actually don't have one. So if you guys are really- Have I ever seen you without a beard?

Has anyone in real life ever seen you without a beard? I've not. I either killed them all. Oh my God. I destroyed all the evidence. No, it's funny that we've been doing this i want to download the app just for that it's worth the price of admission if i'm being honest because you're like you know what it is my head is so small it's like i look like think about like i didn't have hair either bald fade one on top fade down i mean is your head small or is the rest of your body just big well no one like it's it's bad to the point where no one goes,

God, that guy's big. It's like that guy looks like the weird pawn shop owner in Men in Black after they shot his head off. It's just like a peanut on his shoulders. What the fuck is going on there? So it's like the beard just gives me dimension. A little balance. Yeah.

I get it. And it's just every time I have to shoot another video, it actually grows further. So this is 600 videos. So it's going to be like ZZ Top in like a month or two. Yeah. Yeah. We'll go back and shoot content in May and I'll just be, it'll be bad.

So for this corrective stuff though, you're relying on the individual who's taking part in this program to recognize and know what their issues are, first of all. So it's, it's shoulder, hip and spine are, so it's like, are first of all um so it's it's shoulder hip and spine are so it's like if you have like knee it's hip if you have elbow it's shoulder okay um it's kind of all-encompassing usually low back upper back it's fairly self-evident as far as how people select when people are confused they just message me dm just like it's funny because like i have conversation with friends who are in the social media sphere and they talk about dms guys and girls that's like oh like dms man i tell you

i was like wait what do you mean and then they sort of like go down this like promiscuous road and i was like my dms are like my knee hurts like that's like well that's like as scant like that's as crazy yeah but that's how they get in oh that's the old trojan oh really let's talk about it and they're like yes let's talk about it over dinner never had never happened come on no it's like hey give me all the free advice and like give me a diagnosis over i'm like i i don't want a lawsuit yeah it's not like no one's trojan horsing their way in through like patella tendonitis or anything see you're successful enough that you can that can be your aunt so if someone's like hey you tell me about xyz you can be like don't want to get sued. Not my job by my program. We'll talk then. But that is, that's a legit thing being in the health and

wellness world and doing a lot of your promotion on social media is trying to balance. There's a lot of balancing going on, but one of them that I've experienced is that fine line between like, I feel like my job is to help direct people to information and resources that they can learn from. Right. But also, you know, my time is money at a certain point. And when I'm getting just tons of people sending me messages that are just like, how do I do this? Where do I find this? What do I. And it's like, do I have to fucking take my time to. First of all hello how are you hi how are you nice nice to meet you but also yeah so I'm I'm kind of constantly

struggling with that too because that is really one of the things at this point that I feel like I bring to the table is being able to connect people with information I'm not the expert but I brought I might know somebody that you could talk to or look at or, you know, learn from. And yeah, I'm like, that's when the DMs aren't perverted, they're tell me X, Y, Z. Like I'm literally just sitting here waiting to answer your question. I would rather a dick pic most days. I'd literally rather like. Well, it's easier to get over it because you can just like shutter, delete it and move on. I couldn't imagine that.

Like that's got to be like such a low converting play. Yeah. It's just like the goal is like when you send out a thousand maybe you get a couple feelers like is that is that the go i think that most like 99 of people who will send an unsolicited dick pic are not actually in their heart of hearts um hoping to get a positive response i think they get off on the idea of like just kind of showing people whether they like it or not that's really interesting yeah it's like a weird louis ck kind of vibe yeah yeah that's an issue i know that was too bad i really enjoyed his comedy and that's the thing you can't watch it the same i mean i'm do it whatever whatever fucking floats your boat

man like we're all a little strange in the head but like i can't listen to his comedy like retroactively going back and go maybe that wasn't a joke that was kind of fucked up it's really strange and i was a huge fan i just finished watching the leaving neverland or whatever the michael jackson oh shit how was it no i can't i can't so many people kind of were like yeah that's a little bit too i like billy jean too much well this is it i can't do it i because i know what just Louis C.K. jerking off in the corner did for me and my affinity for his comedy. It's like, if you take Billie Jean away from me, I'm nothing.

I mean, you think about it. When Bill Cosby, that was like a collective, just people's childhoods ruined around the world. And Michael Jackson, it's happening now too. But I think that that goes back to our flawed human nature where we have way too high standards for famous people and we you know if they're famous they're better right and somehow they have like a different kind of either moral code or or whatever or maybe we just aren't thinking about it but the ability for people to willingly suspend their common sense in order to retain beliefs that they want to hold on to.

And this relates to celebrities, but even, I don't know, health and fitness modalities too. Like when you have something that you believe and it helps you live your life, you really don't want to take in any evidence to the contrary. And that's basically what this, you know, leaving Neverland or whatever is. It's just people who in the face of such overwhelming clear evidence of something just turn a complete blind eye to it yeah it's intense i couldn't imagine like with that kind of like it's one thing to be like oh yeah like carbs it's another thing to be like hey does this smell like chloroform you know like that's a totally different like outcome yeah whatever gets you through the day i guess but that's that's a scary

idea that i always wonder like is it is it a different representation of people who are like that perverse is it are they disproportionately represented at the level of celebrity because of some sort of god complex like do are more celebrities that you just hit it like a tipping point of like status and like indemnification and like affluenza that it's like, let's see how far I can push the needle. Yeah. That's completely human nature. That's not fucked. Yeah. I mean, it's not, it's not normal in any capacity to be famous or to have the power that a famous person or a politician or anybody that has that kind of platform has.

It's not normal and it's not good for you mentally to have everybody tell you that you're God and that you're the best and you're above everything. And to have a huge group of just yes men who tell you that everything you do is okay, that enable your shitty behavior. I mean, when you look at the Leaving Neverland thing, like the team that he had around him encouraging, well, not encouraging, but enabling him to do the things that he was doing. It's mind blowing. It's terrifying. Did you ever read any of what Julius Caesar? Not particularly.

I'm not like huge into like the whole Stoic movement, although some of my favorite authors. I read like Marcus Aurelius. Yeah. That kind of stuff. I'm into it. It seems like a very pragmatic kind of approach. Like I'm not a religious person,

and there's something very like just kind of common sense about stoicism yeah i mean i like like like ryan holiday is probably one of my favorite authors right now but like just the idea of like putting up your daily stoic quote it's like let's see some action here so like i'd rather read about and i've talked about this in the past like read about stoic characters in history rather than just read but was it marcus aurelius or was it julius i think it was caesar had someone follow him around all day and say you were only a man so walk through the town square everyone's like doing their little bowing thing and there's literally just like he paid like a minion to be like hey this is what you do when someone pats me on the back you can walk to me yeah you're only a man how do you do this though because i was

just talking to everybody's favorite um muscle man Ben Bukowski earlier today and we were talking about this very thing and about making sure that you have people around you who will be honest with you and sometimes people who love you or are close to you in a certain way sometimes can have a hard time doing that because they want to support you and they want to encourage you and they want to make sure that you're happy which sometimes means just like saying yes or yeah whatever you're doing is great that's great you know so how do you make sure and especially as you start to become more successful so maybe you start making good money maybe you start getting popular on instagram so people think that you're hot shit maybe that group around you tends to become like morph almost into this like

sort of yes man kind of team so how do you make sure that you keep people around you who are going to tell you the truth and you know yeah i mean i think if you understand that the process is entropic and it's going to break down unless you put work into it like that's it you can't and this goes like like for yourself it's like you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped and i think that process is just wanting to be better so it's like if you get better you need to be criticized like't want to be helped. And I think that process is just wanting to be better. So it's like to get better, you need to be criticized. You need to be able to manage criticism.

So I think the people who surround themselves with yes-men just don't want to get better. And that's a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you don't want to get better, then you're not going to get better. So I think a lot of it comes down to the onus on the individual. There were people in my life who were ingratiating and not critical and they're not in my life anymore. And it's no fault of their own. Like I become pretty good at removing like blame from emotion. Like I don't blame you for this, but I can no longer be attached to the situation.

So it does become weird because it does echo chamber you in a certain way because we have lived such atypical lifestyles. This is work. This is work. The 22nd floor of 31st and 7th in New York with a view of MSG in the heart of Midtown. Pretty sweet. Fucking weird. It's real weird.

I didn't pay X hundreds of thousands of dollars to go to school to chat on Muscle Maven Radio. But fuck am I ever glad I'm here. Right? Like, I am not in clinical practice. I'm not seeing 250 patients a week at some corporate office in the Silicon Valley. So it's like, to a certain degree, it's just a matter of, like, you do find yourself in people. Like, there has to be, like, a base level understanding of, like, what you do and how you do it. Like, you do what yourself in people, like there has to be like a base level understanding of like what you do and how you do it.

Like, but you do what for a living? It's like, well, I do this, this, this, I talk here.

I talk on the internet. I, I, I post some things that make some money that way. So it's like finding people, honestly, finding good people in the industry who are just there trying to get better. Like you talked about Benny and he's like,

he's been a huge influence on me. He was the influence on me when I was like 12 years old and I was trying to get big, big calves or whatever the fuck. And now just like even more impactful into a greater magnitude on like the mindset, the lifestyle, like the self-improvement and all that.

Like, you know, the thought of waking up routinely at like 6am or 5am before, it was like, why would I do that? I'm self-employed. Like that's fucking silly but he realized like if you're trying to like improve that that's the kind of habits that you

need to and i was so resistant and still to a certain extent i'm resistant to what it takes honestly and a lot of what it takes is like think like getting rid of things you think you know um i think like you can't really learn anything if you think you already know it um so yeah the exclusion criteria it helps like once you find like people like that run in good circles and then once you kind of have that foot in the door you kind of have a vetting process already for like set out for you so first of all was that a dig at me not getting up at six o'clock to work out with you guys oh you were supposed to be there yeah i told i told ben i wasn't at 6 o'clock to work out with you guys? Oh, you were supposed to be there. Yeah, 100% it was a dig.

I told Ben I wasn't doing leg day twice in a row, especially with you guys. Like, fuck that. Although I am kind of regretting it. But we'll have another opportunity to work out. You should come down to Tampa. Tampa's cool. Yeah, I'm 100% into that. But it's like, he has this thing where it's like, if you can't, then that's the thing.

That's what you should do, yeah. It's real fucking annoying. He's such a jack annoying but he lives it you know like yeah i've i've lived more with him in the past three years than i spent time with my own parents so it's like you see like i remember being in manly beach it's like a suburb of northern sydney excuse me manly beach that's the coolest name of a place yeah oh it's fine it's beautiful but we spent a month in australia in january and i remember being 4 a.m and we're getting up to train before we presented like starting the weekend

and i literally like tripped over him sitting cross-legged meditating on the floor with his nose canceling like dude you're 270 pounds you're getting in the fucking way please do this on the couch like new rule we're doing this for a whole month and we're gonna travel europe and canada like meditation outside the kitchen but he's about it right like there's a whole month and we're going to travel Europe and Canada, like meditation outside the kitchen. But he's about it, right? Like there's like we talked earlier, like there's a validity to it. Like you got to walk the walk. You got to talk the talk. And when it comes to like, you know, when it comes to maybe a transition outside of like muscle building and sport performance and all that and getting into things that, oh, I don't know, matter, at least to a broader population, it can be more impactful.

Like being able to be known for that like we were in the we were in we're 24 hour fitness just a couple blocks away from here 12th out and someone came up to him and it wasn't like hey man like i remember when you did the arnold classic it was like he said that very quote like the just because you don't want to i just tune it out now because it drives me nuts but like the thing you don't want to do is the thing you should be doing yeah so that was so it's good to kind of be able to transcend that and or like use use the the fitness industry as a platform as a means of like creating a foothold and creating some level of authority and then bringing people in to the fitness industry and understanding the benefit that being mindful of your health and wellness has.

Oh, I hate the word wellness. Ugh. But to bringing people out of the fitness industry. Like, hey, guys, big world out there. There's more to it. Yeah. Use this as a base. Use this as a platform to learn and be successful in the rest of your life

in the places that matter. Yeah. I'm going to introduce you, by the way, in this podcast as a wellness guru. I think it's 22 floors. You can throw me out. Yeah. No, I was gonna say if I jumped, I'd probably do it. Can you tell me about what you and Ben are doing together? And you're like traveling all over the world and presenting and what's that all about?

Yeah. So me and Ben come from two total different camps when it comes to like training right obviously a bodybuilder he trained past tense more so but isolation muscle action um where i trained as like a strength athlete we'll air quote athlete because you know out of breath um from integration and function and then what builds the contrast like we don't come out of this, from integration and function. And then what builds the contrast, we don't come at it as here's point A, here's point B. It's like here's a gradation from point A to point B. And depending on what your objective outcome is,

this is how you're going to scale our approaches. Like I'm polar one side, he's polar the other. It's like find your wavelength that you want to resonate at from a performance level and then implement relative strategies from either side, from either pole to find exactly where you want to be from a body composition standpoint to a strength standpoint, from an isolation standpoint to an integration standpoint, from an action standpoint to a function standpoint. So it's it's cool because like, you know, he was one of the top bodybuilders in the world and as i pursue in powerlifting and and hopefully getting stronger we'll see how june goes it there's always that like what do you want i want to get bigger i want to get stronger it's like i don't want to get leaner it's like fuck okay um but a lot of like the what the people what met the catalyst in between these two things

is always stability and that's like it's something that he spoke about independently to meeting me and the way I frame it from like a performance standpoint, it's like just this idea and this balancing act of like, there's more than just volume and intensity in training, right? There's more than just like, well, he's a bodybuilder. He does eight reps for four sets. He's a powerlifter. He just does singles all the time.

People just look at it as a very linear spectrum of like volume intensity i'm going to do a lot for a very few reps or i'm going to do um you know very light for more reps catch a pump or whatever the fuck the kids say these days where it's like there's so many other adaptations that can be made and one of the biggest that bridges the gap between function and action performance and isolation is stability right and it's just like stability is not like i'm going to put a fucking hip circle on and walk around and strengthen my glutes or i'm going to use a band to strengthen my rotator cuff or i'm going to do curl ups to strengthen my core it's totally different right i think it's a totally different adaptation and people don't realize that it's different so they try to strengthen muscles or or hubs of stability as i like to call them

and if you're a high level athlete that that's speaking the wrong language like that's like me and you being fluent in french and then going to that italy it's like if we were a tourist and we're there for a day yeah i could order lunch get on a train with what little tabernak i know but it's like if i'm going to live there if i'm going to be a a permanent resident of physical activity which by now i'd like to think i am i need to make sure that i'm fluent in the adaptations that i'm trying to make i'm speaking the right language in the body so that's the thing we come out the most is like how do you need stability at a minimum effective dose to be strong how do you need stability at a minimum effective dose to be big right and then how do you wave in internal modalities of stability like how do you

control your own body internally without using a bench without using um uh machines or cables so just like thinking of this whole other um it's almost like it's like this trinity between the three and like things that are complicated exist in threes right our body we operate dualistically in the world the jam fucking square pegs into round holes because life's too fucking complicated to deal with all the input we have to deal with but it's like to think that it's just like oh you got injured so what we're gonna do we're gonna start off real light we're gonna start off real light and we're gonna add it's like that's so dumb because you know why the grim reaper is sitting there waiting for that fucking volume intensity ratio to balance out and if you haven't done or

looked that extra dimension of the instability that caused the applied load to insult or to surpass tissue tolerance because that's the biomechanical representation of an injury it's applied load greater than tissue tolerance if you haven't worried about how that load is being applied in your body and that's not weight on a bar it's like the nervous system's path at least resistance it takes through the muscles of strength and stability it's like if you can't stand on one leg and you're trying to squat with two it's goodbye si joint see the fuck i don't care who you are like i don't care how wide you squat or whatever it's gonna happen one day because like that lightning rod where that path of least resistance is going to go through is right through that joint.

It's right in the structure. Why? Because you haven't trained the function. You can train the action and train that glute med to be strong. Sure, it's not going to put the lightning rod there. It's still just going to go right through that SI joint. Because its function is lateral hip stability. Its action is swinging your legs off to the side with bands

and someone filming your ass on Instagram, but it's like two totally different things. So like the contrast we make, and that's the point we try and drive home is like, listen, stability matters. Like there's more to it. There's a layer deeper than most people talk about or consider. So whether it's, you want to get stronger, be stable first. You want to get faster, be stable first.

You want to get bigger, be stable first. So that's kind of like our overarching message and then we go into two day camps after that and show you what that looks like in training so day one totally theoretical here are paradigms here's the common one here's how we're gonna not like myth busted or or anything like that like i think there's such a there's such an emerging market for like again this revenge and they're like oh myth busting like oh like i'm gonna read a research and like this is don't foam roll this it's like fuck yourself you know what i mean it's like here when the rubber hits the road can you get results let's turn you into the research project let's control all the variables let's standardize the intervention

we know the subject let's reassess oh fuck you just got you just put on 20 in a lift in the matter of like 10 minutes i'll take it i'll take that over any peer-review meta-analysis because i don't fucking time i don't have time to read conflicting research when i'm training athletes or working with sports teams like i need i need results now these uh seminars that you guys are doing all over the place there you said they're two days three three days okay so the first day is the theoretical and then there's like some practice and implementation the next two days yeah how many people are at these things uh so day one is open to like a lot larger group the theoretical we can reach a lot more people um because there's no

hands-on component so we've seen 60 70 upwards of 100 100 people in the theoretical days. Obviously, you just buy that ticket, it's less expensive. And then span across the other two days. We cap it at 16. Yeah, because you're working with individuals, you're working one-on-one. Yeah, so between me and him, we can handle two groups of eight.

And then we cycle through and we just sort of, we pull people apart. And then between the two of us, you can be like, okay, your, your weaknesses, like your weaknesses here, go see Jordan. Or like, oh, okay. Your, your, your issue is an execution. Go see Ben. So by the time, by the time we're done, it's, uh, people are leaving with a totally different framework.

And that's the thing. Like, it's not about giving them answers. It's about giving, like, giving them the tools to ask better questions. Yeah. To even know what questions they're supposed to be asking. Yeah. I think most people exist so far. Are you familiar with the Dunning-Kruger effect? Dunning-Kruger effect is basically, like, a scientific model that proves that some people

are so stupid they don't know how stupid they are. Yeah. I mean, I think we all can understand that. Yeah. On a certain level. Well, it's just like. We're all just dumb. We don't know what we don't know.

Sure, but some people are so blindly confident in their ignorance that they can project from the loudest hill what they think they know best, better than anyone, and it's actually so far removed from the truth and application. But it's the George Costanza. It's not a lie if you believe it. So it's like they're not malicious in their intent. Usually they're just ignorant.

Right? Like don't explain with ignorance what can, or don't explain with malice what can be explained with ignorance. So I think, but those are the people who do so well because they can lead from the front and be like, this way everyone. Right into the fight. It's like, whoa, dude, Henry VIII, one more into the breach, good friends. Like what the fuck are we doing?

Why are you telling everyone to go ahead first to do a fuck? But people want to follow, right? Because they have have a lot because they have wife and kids and jobs and shit and they're looking to delegate this really complicated part of their life to someone like they're not dumb they're doing your taxes or they're fucking building your house right other things it's like i think a lot of people in the fitness industry again they lose perspective on how this exists in in real life outside of so like i have so many people who don't have instagram that make billions of dollars no way is that possible right i don't know man they must have a hell of a promo code somewhere fucking unbelievable but it's like it's

it's so hard for people to get remove themselves from the silo that this industry's created and i mean you get a lot out of your social media though don't you yeah yeah yeah and it's it's for me uh and we've been and i've discussed this kind of ad nauseum which is every discussion we have now it's your medium is your message right so social media being instagram you get a lot of like that's your that should be your lowest offering from a content standpoint like that should be your don't give away content standpoint. Like that should be your. Don't give away the goods on Instagram. Well, it's not, if you're, you know, don't, that's not,

I don't know if that's necessarily true. If your goods are only 60 seconds in length, but it's like, you know, I got 45,000 words in draft of a book. That's the goods. That's my whole brain. When that book goes out, you can pretty much, I could make the leap from 20 seconds, could swan dive onto 7th Avenue. This is it.

This is my Mr. Holland's opus. Like I'm checking the fuck out. This is it. 28, this is all I have to offer. But I can do that because I'm – I don't know. I'm fucking neurotic and I'm weird and this stuff like pollutes my days and nights and I just need to put it – I have a feeling once that's out, give yourself a week and you're going to have a new ridiculous goal. Yeah, I hope so. I have a feeling once that's out, you know, give yourself a week and you're going to have a new ridiculous goal.

Yeah, I hope so. And honestly, like, I think that might be subliminally, like, or subconsciously has been what's limiting my action on it. And, like, fuck, I feel like I'm done. Why? Because you're, like, what comes next after I'm done with this? Yeah, yeah. Because it's, I mean, there's a huge marketing component to it. And I think just getting it out there would be cool.

But there is kind of a what's next. And I'm like what's next kind of like you know next quarter next year next five years like goal oriented so it's like hard to think that once this book is out that's my highest I've been writing it for years like that's once it's done it's like that's it put him out to stud bring old yeller behind behind the fucking woodshed silver bullet for Jordan like um but you know so back to your point it's like yeah instagram is a good way to get people's attention so i'll deadlift something or whatever and like oh i look dead lifting and then i'll be like hey article hey podcast like here's here's an hour and 20 minutes about hip mechanics or whatever so So I always start, I mean, everything that you see on my Instagram

starts from my book. There's something in there that sparked a trickle-down effect. So I write, you know, I write three or four pages about X and then I take part of that and that's an article. And then I take part of that article

and that's a podcast episode. And then I take part of that podcast episode and we reference a YouTube video on it. And I take part of that YouTube video and then I put it on Instagram. Right. So I think the medium is the message. So depending on what your offering is, like if you're, if your shtick is bench pressing

girls, you're not going to write a book on it. That's going to be a weird article and a strange podcast, but it makes for a cool Instagram post. Maybe it goes viral. Maybe you sell some drop ship t-shirts or some shit. Make your money, dude. I don't really care. But you're saying, you know, you've got this sort of high level project message and then

you can let like peripheral sort of messages and information trickle down through all these channels, which will eventually spark interest and have people kind of climb the ladder back up to the good stuff. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, that's always been, that's always been the goal. So you're saying though, that your deadlift videos gets the attention,

and then you're like, oh, but hey, guess what? I'm smart, and I have something to say, and listen to the thing I have to say. And that works on social media for you? Yeah. So honestly, what gets the most traction on Instagram is me yelling about shit. I believe that. Yeah. I don't know.

People love. So you'll actually get the reference, I think. My muse is Rex Murphy. So Rex Murphy, for those of you who don't know. Yeah. Like if you think like I'm good at ranting about shit, Rex Murphy is like the one. Like he's the Don. You kiss the ring. If you've ever wanted to string together a series of like inflammatory thoughts, you

owe a debt of gratitude to this guy. So he was a news anchor on CBC. And he would come in, like, social issues, you know, big. I don't know where they keep him, on ice or something. He doesn't have a regular column anymore. But when you need someone to really cut with a knife and do it with words, he's a fucking words. Like just use YouTube, Rex Murphy,

like rants or something like he's fucking. And I'm just, because I'm from Newfoundland originally, East coast represent. And he's in, he's a new fee. I'm pretty sure. So my dad was always like,

yeah, fucking a, like all these mainlanders, Rex Murphy. So we'd watch every single thing. And I think sublimity looking back, like that is such a big influence. So my biggest engagement is like yelling about shit.

Okay. Yeah. Because I guess we, and we talked about this a little bit yesterday, but the, you know, the frustration of trying to be an authentic person who's actually putting out information in a world where no one has any, no one pays attention. No one reads. Everyone just wants to look at asses and the constant push and pull on social media of do I put out the stuff that's popular that gets attention so that when I have their attention I can give them the goods or do I

do I try to like stick to my morals and just not show my butt and just hope that people will find me because my information is valuable. It's a needle that's constantly moving and in a direction i didn't want it to go but i think every time the needle moves towards like all right like i'll cut weight for a meat or something and i'll be 110 kilos and it's like all right out of the sauna fine there put it out on the internet anyway whatever if it gets likes it doesn't get like i don't give a shit but if i can get x thousands more like and then one person from that message like hey man i saw this youtube video you did with like mind pump and like totally changed my squad i had hit pain for x number of years now it's gone i don't give a shit if there's a picture of me without a shirt

on the internet frankly i don't care like that to me is more impactful than the detriment that comes with once every six months putting that out there. So it's the best advice I ever got. And I reference it, like I think about it literally every day when I make decisions when it comes to business, especially in our business. It's, so Craig Caperso,

who's a men's physique bodybuilder kind of back in the day, just like a serial fitness entrepreneur. I wrote for his website when I was in my last year of school. I wrote an article a week for his website that went out on an email blast while I was finishing my last year of chiropractic college. And he gave me the best advice. He was like, dude, get out of your own way.

And it's like whenever I talk to anyone, it's like don't come to me for advice. People come to me and like, oh, how did you do it? I'm like, I'm not going to sit here like an egotist and be like I set out and did everything I planned on doing I think I planned for this shit it was just like like oh squirrel and I'm gonna chase this thing for a little bit like oh fucking shiny tinfoil oh red ball like that has been my life and it's like there are probably ways to do it more efficiently than I have but like doing it in a way where it's you need to balance that you need to have a system of checks and balances of like like income versus outcome right and like

what each is worth to you like I'm very outcome driven and if if by me not playing the game limits my out like outcome with people, then that's selfish, right? Like that's a really selfish way to look at it, especially if you think you have something that's different. And like I think my framework and the way I look at things is vastly different and it has great implications. Like I've seen it in practice, like in my own practice,

and I've seen it just like a YouTube video can be like, dude, like someone got my email address and PayPal me money for a YouTube video I did. It's like, dude, I spent like dude like someone just got my email address and paypaled me money for a youtube video i did it's like dude i spent like ten thousand dollars on physical therapist for the past like five years trying to fix my shoulder i watch your youtube video it's like here's 500 bucks and it's like cool man like fucking rad absolutely that's that's wicked and if he somehow came across me from like dead lifting or whatever it's like fuck fuck yeah man like and if i was too too shy like i'd still be chasing around an answer so i think you know stick to your guns

but at the same point it's like you've got to play the game win the fucking game you know what i mean yeah if you're very clear on what you want the outcome to be you can be a little bit more lenient with some of the steps that it takes to get there if you just have your eyes on the prize you know what you're trying to accomplish and that that's like, it's weird. One of my favorite quotes of all time is have clarity and vision and flexibility and process. And that's Jon Stewart. Yeah, Jon Stewart, the comedian.

And that was like, I don't know, I heard it like 15 years ago. And it's like have clarity and vision but flexibility and process. I like that. Like I think people have, they're too rigid in their processes and they're not clear enough in their vision and they flip it so they try and like like this is the road i gotta stick on it's like no no like clarity and vision it's like it's

not going to be a straight line you know what i mean so flexibility and i used to be the worst like my yes it's a weird reference to make but in autism, when someone who has autism walks into a room and they walk into a room and a chair is moved, they don't see room with chair moved. They see new room. I used to be like that. Like my schedule changed in the middle of the day. It's like,

oh God, I'm going to bed. Fuck it. We'll try again tomorrow. Where it's like being very flexible in the process. Like we are so, I don't want to out of, we're so disorganized.

Like, hey man man when are you getting in Toronto like oh fuck when is that what day is it where am I what city are we in it's just like that used to stress the fuck out of me I was like you know what flexibility we'll make it happen so I think that's like the get out of your own way and then have clarity of vision flexibility and process I like that a lot I mean it is different honestly I'm really getting kind of tired of talking about the whole like well should i show my ass to get more attention because there is a values-based situation on the female side of this that i can't even imagine yeah it's a cool and it

is harder to be flexible because you you do want to kind of stick to your guns you do want to be like well i don't i don't want to be the one who has to show skin to get people to pay attention to the valuable things that i'm saying and And not even because I have a moral issue. Everybody likes to look at ass like to, to, to say that you don't is bullshit, right? And, and I don't think there's anything wrong with being proud of the way you look and wanting to show that off. You worked hard for it too, but it is harder to be flexible because people do want to put you into a box. They want to be like, oh, well you're just the girl that just kind of is famous because you look cute or you were the strong one who managed to to stick to your guns and put out good messaging and not show your ass and then if you show one sexy picture you've sold

out and so it is like a little bit more sort of political and values driven on the on the female side but i think that um you know taking some of the advice that you're giving me right now but also just less of worrying about what other people are going to think about the decisions you're making and just sticking to, yeah. Clarity of vision. I mean, if I got to,

you got to do what you got to do. Yeah. There's just such a transcendence that comes with not giving a fuck. And it's like every year for the past couple of years, I've really been proud of like, I thought I couldn't give more fucks than I did last year. And I look at my life now and it's just like incredible. Like I wake up every,

like I get thrown into the mix of inflammatory shit all the time. Like I've fairly outspoken about things I don't agree with or practices I don't agree with. And it's like, when it comes through my windscreen now, it's like, that's great. I don't give a shit.

Yeah. That's like, you want to, you want to, you want to chat about it? Like when I see you, when you see me in person, I'm not 800 pixels by 800 pixels right i'm i'm a little bit bigger than that so if you're gonna chat sure here's my home address i don't care like can we all be adults

because it's not until you have real fucking problems in your life that we've climbed up the pyramid a little bit and we're not at the level of like i mean i'm a big believer in like maslow's hierarchy of needs and most people at the level of self-esteem it's like let's knock this bitch down to survival let's let's really have some like sleep on the fucking floor of your office for two months getting two hours of sleep at night then tell me again how much it matters about the your tiff on instagram we're like oh my god this person commented this what do you think i don't give a fuck because like there was times where like i didn't know where i was gonna eat or i didn't know where i was gonna sleep so it's like once you go

down to like let's bring this back down to the base level of the pyramid here everything above fucking cares yeah i a hundred percent agree with that one kind of snag that we run into though is that we are living in a world where most of us certainly the people that are able to listen to a podcast right now are living in you know the easiest time in human history and we don't have to worry about our safety most of the time we don't have to worry about where our food's coming from and where we're going to sleep tonight or if we have enough money to pay our bills most of us don't have to worry about that most of the time and it's very hard to have gratitude and a sense of perspective about all the things you have when you're just used to having them all the time so but but we also don't

want to invite misfortune or catastrophe into our lives to gain perspective so how do we do that when we are like fortunate privileged who don't actually have to worry about anything real in life most of the time how do we i do that do it with training like i told like because and torn pack torn quad i mean you tear a quad with 300 kilos on your back you see your maker pretty quick you tear a pack with 200 kilos over your face you go pretty close to a white light like it and it's a fucked up thing and it's not maybe the best outlet to do it like this this this display of like purposeful discomfort through physical stoicism if you will but like it keeps me grounded like and if you go in and i don't like the imagery that the fitness industry has sort of aligned with like oh i'm like going to

war it's like no you're very well fucking not because i have friends in the industry who've gone to war and lost legs and lost limbs you're lifting weights in a climate controlled room no but if if not for nothing else for two hours it's it sets perspective for me and be like okay all everything else that i thought was like of high importance doesn't matter yeah right so i think for me that's that's how i go about doing it um and just i don't know like just read education i think if you want to like liberate yourself, if you have a problem, and I've said this on numerous occasions, if you have a problem, it's because you don't know enough. That's your problem. You don't know enough.

But that's the thing. It's like most people want to say their problem is because they don't own this product. The problem is that they don't have this. They're not stinking. They didn't have the opportunity that was given to someone else or whatever. Yeah, dude, if you can virtue signal from your iphone 10 you don't have a problem right like let's be real serious so i just think understanding like getting perspective travel go ahead i was in lebanon in december of last year go ahead and bitch about like inequality when you're driving

through a hezbollah checkpoint yeah when like the shitty weather why it's not warmer here yet when you yeah it's like it's almost spring like what the fuck is going on it's like i literally remember there's um there's a place in lebanon called uh it was called mount lebanon um and there's a oh no sorry it's our lady of lebanon it's a statue of the virgin mary it's like the highest peak that overlooks it's really nice you can see you don't understand how small lebanon is it's like you you the Virgin Mary. It's like the highest peak that overlooks. It's really nice. You can see, you don't understand how small Lebanon is. It's like you can see everything. And again, it was kind of like this weird pride rock moment where I was up there with two of my buddies from Beirut.

And it's like, you see the Mediterranean, you can see like, you can see Beirut, you see all the other cities. And then there's like this weird, like, hey, what's over there in the dark? Like that's Syria. We don't go to Syria. It's like, oh, fuck, ISIS.

Like that's really strange. And you're stepping over mortar shells and there's still entire faces of buildings that are torn off. My friend Tarek, we're in his parents' condo. Very nice building. Very well-to-do people. Very friendly and genuinely like wholehearted. The most hospitable people you'll ever meet. But there's a 50-c cow bullet hole in their living room

yeah i spent some time in israel last year and had a similar experience and i was with someone who could kind of show me um more than what maybe the tourists would experience when they were there and it's the same thing i mean the people by and large, it's such a, they have an air of sort of confidence and presence and self-composure that I noticed immediately because, and especially I noticed with young women who are all, you know, again, kind of conscripted into the military or public service for a certain amount of time. Because they just have bigger fucking issues at all times. There's always on the periphery this like life or death situation that they're living with. And as a result, they don't have time for the bullshit that we spend so much time in. Like imagine getting on the Crosstown 10 bus and it blowing up. Right.

And it's like, yeah, don't you shouldn't have to be subjected to that. But you also shouldn't allow yourself to get so far removed from like what actually matters to. Right. to that but you also shouldn't allow yourself to get so far removed from like what actually matters too right yeah i think the further the further you go down this pursuit of like self-esteem and like uh acceptance the further you need to over correct it's like go go see that go go to africa go ahead go to north africa and see you see how you fare you know what i mean most people couldn't stomach watching it on the news right let alone like being immersed in it like it's really strange I don't know people are we're doomed yeah we all we're all the worst we suck um you are training for something yeah June 1st Toronto Pro Show um there's going to be a powerlifting meet inside the expo in Toronto first one on home soil I'm

excited really first one I never got into powerlifting until after I finished grad school in California. So I was just, my first patient just happened to be like the strongest guy in the world and he kind of

talked me into it, really twisted my arm into doing a meet and that was like three years ago. Are you, do you only deadlift or is that just

the only thing we see you do? So with a torn pec and a torn quad, it's like you kind of save it for when it matters. How long ago were those injuries? Okay, so the pec was actually just over a year. So I a torn pec and a torn quad, it's like you kind of save it for when it matters. How long ago were those injuries?

Okay. So the pec was actually just over a year. So I tore my pec prepping for the Arnolds in Australia, which had just passed. So it was two weeks prior to that, one week prior to the Arnold in Columbus. So I tore it in training. And then I tore my quad three months before that. So it's like I can still bench, I can still squat, but I save it for when I try and rehab it as best I can

and then knowing full well, like I was basically told by two separate orthopedists for each injury going, you pretty much just have to bend it till it breaks. So in Toronto, are you only going to? No, I'll do full power. Okay. Yeah, I'll squat, bench and deadlift.

So it's just a matter of like, we talk about like the physical stoicism, like it's a different element to training now where it's like an orthopedic surgeon goes it's going to tear then we'll put it back together until that until which point we don't know where to make a clean break to put it back on because it's a fucking mess so we'll let gravity and the weights you choose tell us where to put it back on that's exciting that's spicy but you it's perspective because it's like tell you what like above all else like i don't care what you're into i don't care if it's chess i don't care if it's fucking uh unicycle riding i don't care if you're passionate about it fucking a i get it and it's like it's that to me was a huge eye-opener and like i went through these injuries and like went through i i. I wouldn't say depression, but training is a large part of my life.

It's a large part of my business, a large part of my livelihood. So it's hard to be a practicing chiropractor with a torn quad and a torn back. It's like, oh, I guess I'm going to use my left hand for everything. But there I was two months later back under the bar holding weight over my face again going like, what the fuck am I doing? this down I like this go play like go play cricket or something like why are you here it's like obviously there's a passion for it and it's like when you get it taken away it was kind of like a fuck this sucks and you want to do everything to hold on to it so like I don't care what your jam is like I don't care if you're into the shit I say and if you're

not cool that's one thing you know you're not passionate about so you can go out you can go out in the world and look for whatever you're passionate about knowing that this is one thing that's definitely not it and that's another thing like when i say seminars like i get equally excited when i present when i see someone at the edge of their seat and i see someone asleep because it's like cool man i know now that you're one step closer to finding something that'll actually like fucking just get you amped up. Like when I start talking, I don't do it for anyone else but me. Like when I'm presenting, it's like this is the – because I'm just working out ideas in my head. I'm just thinking out loud and I just look around and go, does that all make sense?

Yes. Cool. Then I know that idea was like at least verified in the room. So it's like whatever your jam is, just find a jam. You know what I mean? Your injuries, were they – do you consider those inevitable or what were you doing wrong? the room so it's like whatever your jam is just find a jam you know what i mean your injuries were they do you consider those inevitable or what were you doing wrong improper load management and that that's what sort of that is what shifted kind of our our business model a bit was like

you know i was like oh i can do all this stability stuff like put me on one leg blow you away with what i can do on one leg like i can control my body and yours on one like hip stability there and i and it's kind of like it was it was a realization for me because i thought if i did this stuff no amount of weight could hurt me and that wasn't i was looking at the wrong system i was looking at joints i was looking at like si joint elbow shoulder like stuff i saw in practice people came in it's like oh my knees hurt saying i want like stuff I saw in practice. People came in, it's like, oh, my knees hurt. It's like, that's why. You have a bone that's supposed to hinge that's rotating a lot because your hip is not stable.

And so I was like, oh, I can do all that stuff. I'm fine. And it's like rather than having like a sore knee, I have a torn quad. Rather than like, oh, my elbows hurt when I bench. It's like, that was fucking amazing. At 195, felt good. Like, yeah, you know what? Let's go 200 kilos. Let's go off program.

No elbow pain. Torn pack. Right? So it's like these premonitious injuries, like these premonitious lights on the dashboard. Hey, something's fucked up here. Elbow hurts. Your knee hurts.

Is this coming next? So once I kind of realized, oh, fuck, there's more to it than just like, oh, do a single leg RDL or do walking lunges or kettlebell bottom under press, that you actually need to respect load management and proper programming periodization. It's like down the rabbit hole I went and then out I came on the other side

with the corrective exercise and the implementation of proper periodization. And injury prevention is not the right way to frame it. It's injury risk management. Like if you fly as close to the sun as I do. You're risking it. Yeah. And I think that's,

and there's, there's a, I don't want to say there's a market for that because I don't want it to be like predatory, but there's, the sign over the door for physicians says first do no harm. And a lot of time in that pursuit,

people are left doing no good. Right? So it's like an athletic performance. It's like, you gotta, you gotta know how to toe the line. Because it's like in athletic performance, it's like you got to know how to toe the line. Because it's like you can play the conservative route and then maybe improve on subjective metrics of pain.

But it's like if you set your virtue to performance, it's like strap the fuck in. Because we're going to get weird, but we're going to get you back quicker and we're going to get you stronger faster. We're going to do it in unconventional ways because most people are too shit scared of breaking this pitcher

that's worth $9 million a year, the defenseman on the hockey team that's pivotal in the playoff. It's like you've got to really be able to sack up and be confident in your approach and your assessments and your reassessments to be able to actually improve sport performance. So I think that's where the injuries to me,

I don't want to say like the obstacle is the way kind of like um piggyback off ryan holiday a little bit but yeah they were very insightful for me in my career just in having that like oh shit kind of moment so on the bright side these injuries have helped inform your programming and business well and like i said like if you have problem, it's because you don't know enough. I had two major problems. I had chasms in my body that were filled with bruising and scar tissue. Yeah, a major problem.

That's a big lesson. Pain is knowledge really fast. And I was like, I got some learning to do. And I ignored it after the quad and after the pec. I was like, hmm, three major or two major muscle tears in the span of three months. Maybe I'm missing something. And then I just like took like a,

like a bird's eye view of my programming. I thought, Oh yeah, that linear progression and competitive powerlifting for two and a half years straight with no real breaks. Maybe that had something to do with it. And since changing my trajectory, it's my output has gone through the roof.

So how's your training for this specific thing in Toronto? How's that going? Good. Yeah, really well. I just came off lifting in Columbus. training for this specific thing in uh toronto how's that going good yeah really well um i just came off lifting in columbus deadlift is where it should be and that's something that maintains bench press is coming back um i did a full power meet last year in august um and i was sort of just

kind of gaining traction so on the torn quad i squatted 750 and on the torn pack i benched 390 so it's my best that was my best squat ever to date um and my bench my best bench is 440 so if we can get the bench where it needs to be just back to a placeholder of like 200 kilos or 440 and then um squat and deadlift should sort themselves out what are your lifetime lifting goals don't have any honestly because like my motivation when i lift is to to give myself a platform is to like it's to draw people in so that i can educate them and like that's like what's the means to an end here i mean i'm i'm like obviously passionate about lifting but like the competition side is like i literally have had this thought i'm like my last deadlift which is like the final lift of

the day it's like if I pick this up, maybe I'll pay my student loans off a little bit quicker. Like maybe mom and dad who coach. It's like the stripper trying to make their way through college. That's it, man. I'm just, you know what? She's just an entrepreneur. God bless her.

Using what she's got. I should have, what's the, what's that maniac song? Footloose. I should have the Footloose. No, I think you're thinking of, oh shit, I know what you're talking about with the water. Yeah, footloose no it's not get the fuck out of here yes it is that's gonna drive me nuts now no it's not i guarantee you yeah that'll go in the show notes

as they say um no it's just like parents co-signed on a massive loan it's like really you bet on me you guys are fucking idiots why would you do that don't like buy a boat or something um so yeah like my motivation is like always just to get better but getting better in a lot of ways doesn't necessarily mean like squatting 800 pounds honestly to a certain degree like for the general public that i'm trying to reach they don't necessarily know a difference between a 600 pound squat and a 700 pound squat like go to a commercial gym that's who i want to reach right like the level of like you know the fitness the person is just trying to stay healthy maybe going about it in not the most efficient way speaking of commercial gyms and i don't i know i don't want to keep you for a million years but tell me about what you're doing with good life

because this is kind of a big deal yeah i mean i got really like i'm really lucky in the that i mean i worked for good life good life is my first job sort of in the fitness industry i was worked for them when i was like 16 17 and now to come full circle and be asked to teach um and we'll develop a curriculum and teach to their personal training staff so um throughout canada i'll be teaching two curriculum that i developed for the level two and level three trainers so um to go from level two to level three and level three to level four. Um, so the train, the programs I put together were based off of like flash dance, flash dance. What did I say?

Footloose. Footloose is Kevin Bacon. Okay. Right. Sorry. Um, I don't know why, but I had the Havana Knights thing in my head, like the holding anyways. Um, hi, we're all right. Thank you. Anyways. Yeah. Hi.

We're all right. Thank you. We're good. We're good. No, we're definitely good. Thanks. Thank you. Diligence. She said she really wanted to give us towels.

I appreciate that service. Geez. No. So the two curriculum I developed are like basically movement assessment preparation and then movement integration and execution. So basically centered around the idea of like, how can we accurately assess people in a scalable model based off of their competency? Right. Like, you know, we've had attempts at movement assessments in the past. Like FMS was something that was pretty big and still sort of lingers in the space um but to me it's and as a strength coach and someone who has a lot of

experience with it it's it's very easy to cheat the system the scoring system doesn't necessarily line up to the objective outcome that we're looking for in decreasing the risk of injury so i've sort of developed my own thought process around functional assessment and like regaining ownership over what it means to be functional right like I think it's a bastardized term that Bosu Ball and Shake Weight and TRX have sort of taken over as marketing employees but to really understand like this is how your shoulder functions is not an arbitrary thing it's like if you can understand how everything works in network, you can understand where to start looking

when the lights on the dashboard go off. Too many people get focused on like, my elbow hurts, something wrong with my elbow. It's like, no. Run the code, right? Don't change the fucking check engine bulb. So the curriculum I developed

around assessment and preparation, like how do you create a plan to progress the baseline that you're finding off your assessments? And then how do you move forward and integrate and execute that plan with the actual exercise piece, right? So that's kind of the curriculum I developed there. So we're going to be, we, me. I think we're at 13 cities right now,

starting Halifax on May 2nd. Halifax would be Bradford, Mississauga, a handful of times, Edmonton. Where the hell is Edmonton? Ottawa. Halifax, Ottawa. You're going to be in Toronto too or no? Toronto, yeah.

I'll be on the Yonge Street. Good Life Toronto, June 7th. So yeah, 13 cities. It's all on, it's exclusive to Good Life trainers. It's all on prescript.com slash courses. Um, yeah. And it's something that we've been asked to contract out privately.

Um, so we'll have a couple other dates that are removed and we'll kind of move more like the certification route. Um, as far as, um, we'll move away from integration assessment, uh,

execution preparation and move more shoulder, hip spine. Cause it's a little bit more in-depth and we'll likely do that for clinicians and and trainers and physical therapists so it's something that other maybe private or individual gyms could reach out to you and say like come in and teach our trainers yeah yeah and that was something i was very clear with good life because like again this mr holland's opus like you want to own that yeah so they don't have exclusivity over the content um they're just nice enough and generous enough to allow me to go into their clubs and teach their trainers and hopefully

make because i mean big gym yeah something like 500 clubs so yeah and that's the thing it's like i i like speaking to people with a higher base level competency so they can be my rosetta stone right like and this is where like i admire the people who come to my seminars because it's like they can understand me and they can also understand how to make someone else understand me. Right. And then take me from like take take their client from my demented ramblings and my like crazy thoughts and presentations and then make it actionable and have someone actually improve their functions. Like that's what I wanted. Like I used to think I wanted to be one-on-one.

And for high-end athletes, I still allot some of my schedule for my higher-end athletes where I can be in the room. But from a profound standpoint, from a legacy standpoint, if I can... And who the fuck knows?

I look forward to 10 years when all of this stuff gets proven wrong and we have a whole new paradigm that we're trying to prove. But if in that time time with what i thought up in the systems i put in place if that could reach even just one person it would be cool but like you know we have 30 trainers a club by 15 clubs each one of them has 20 30 clients like the amount of end users that i'm reaching is it's pretty neat to see that kind of scale and to see the principles that i've kind of adopt adopted developed come up with put through this trial by fire to see that actually in action

across even now like when i see like hey man i did this thing like i'll see it in the gym like you're the guy with the thing and i was like yeah fucking amen absolutely you don't need to know my name that's how i'm gonna introduce you the guy with the thing guy with the thing i'm sure i've been introduced as worse check out this fucking asshole that is a big deal though like good life does have a massive reach across the country and the fact like i said the other day i think the fact that they have connected with you and that they're willing to um to work with you on something like this for their trainers is a big deal yeah i mean again we're in working with the company a while, I know I'm an atypical choice. I know that at first glance I'm not palatable to throw up on a poster

in a commercial gym that's focused around getting people on the fringes in, but it's cool that they were able to reach out and work with me and maybe see the value behind the meatheadedness and the outward persona and actually to kind of take the time to listen and see what i had to say and aligned with where they wanted their their market to go or their their programs to go so it was cool yeah i'm really excited as a proud good life member very excited to see i still have my yellow scan barcode old school old because that was the yellow one meant you could go to all of them in the country.

It's very old school. Now they have little key cards, swipey things. No, no, mine. Technology. Name, blue pen on yellow card, laminated. Amazing. I still have my red and white health card. Pry it out of my cold dead fucking hands.

Government of Canada. Yeah, you don't need to use that anyway. I'm just out there. Yeah. Oh, that's sweet have to be uh so okay so you've got your prescript you've got you're traveling the world with ben bakulski you've got good life you are writing a book yep you're still competing yep so you're doing all those things do you sleep at night not well yeah okay do you have somebody that helps you

organize this shit or you just try to like you just take it a day at a time and hope you don't drop the ball on anything um no so i i mean my ceo she's amazing clementina russo so shout out she'll never listen to this which because she's probably too busy fucking putting out my fires that's good um but no business partner jordan is is just invaluable um mark is the tech guy on our team. He's like, if I have a problem, something needs to go up on the website. He's like my, he's like, everything's going to be fine.

It's okay. Like I drive the Mars Rover all day at work. We could figure out your website. Like you're going to be good. No, it's like anyone who tells you they do it on their own, I think is, is full of shit.

Like my mom helps me. Like, no, it's just anyone, anyone I trust is, is someone to lean on. Even if it's someone i can just bend their ear for a little bit like having ben helps ben ben has a team and he's managing that and then jordan helps with the podcast and i have yeah no it's fuck no are you kidding me i'd be

curled up in a ball somewhere i'd be in an airport somewhere in the world just like i just i just would i'd be i'd be about seven floors up fromth Avenue right now if it wasn't for the people around me. That's awesome. Yeah, no, it's cool. It allows me to spend more time focusing on the stuff that I like to do rather than counting beans and cooking books and shit. Yeah, I mean it's pretty impressive the amount of stuff that you're doing, the sheer volume of work that you're putting out. I do one thing. I just do it seven different ways

i just talk about the same shit the book the podcast the seminars like it's all centered around just applied biomechanics even when i'm training it's the same thing like i'm just all i think about clear vision yeah and i think that that helps and like regardless of what you're trying to do you have clarity it just becomes really simple jordan how for people who want to do one of the seven things want to to do one of the seven things, want to participate in one of the seven things you're putting out there, how do people, what's the best way for people to like reach out and,

and learn about all the shit that you're doing? Uh, so I mean, from a voyeurism standpoint, Instagram is the way to go. Um, might see a shirtless pick. Who knows?

You know, if I come into the two 75 weight class in Toronto, there will not, that will not be good for business. It will be large. So wait, how much do you weigh right now? I'm at 270. Okay.

So you're trying to gain weight for this thing? No, no, no. If I go in the 275 class, it will be at this weight. I won't try and gain. When do you decide what weight class you're going to do? Once I'm in a city for longer than three days, I'll see where things settle. So I'm going to go to Toronto.

I'll be in Toronto on the 30th of April. And once I get there and I can get settled for a week, if I can get my body weight down, we'll make a decision. But yeah, Instagram is probably the best. So at the underscore muscle underscore doc. Email if you have serious inquiries, like you don't want to get lost in the myriad of my knee hurt dms um jordan at the muscle doc.com um podcast is rx apostrophe

rx apostrophe d radio so rx radio on spotify and itunes uh and stitcher i think i'll have to look into that probably um that's how i found you because you um you're so great with your marketing that you always put like the one controversial thing that will like trigger people you use that as the title of your podcast like i remember it was some something silly i don't know and i like sent you a message and i was like what's this fucking i don't do you remember this i'm gonna have to go back into the old dm archive yeah it was uh right before we went to um olympia and we got to meet in person for the first time just last year i don't remember what the podcast was

but i was like i'm so curious and i started heckling you on you were like right across you were like what you're with like now or no or something no foods yeah and then across from there there was another guy i don't know if you um i think his name's joey berry or something but he's like a natural physique competitor but but he's also like in Ottawa. And I'm like, we're in this giant Olympia and it's like just all Canadians like standing next to each other. It's pretty great.

Yeah. Yeah. So podcast and then, uh, programming like corrective exercise stuff. And they scaled, um, the subscription based model for exercise programming is www.pre-script.com.

Um, I don't know where, I don't have a home address anymore. So that's enough. I think Instagram is usually the best. And then email if you have serious inquiries. Jordan, thanks for taking the time. I always feel smarter after talking to you.

I really do. Just relatively speaking? Like, God, this guy's an idiot. I mean, I didn't start out that smart. So any advice you can give me helps a little bit. But I appreciate it. And I look forward to heckling you in Toronto because I will be there. So front and center yelling at you while you deadlift.

Appreciate it. And good luck with everything. Thank you. Appreciate you having me on. Okay, that's it for today, guys. Thank you. As always, hit me up on Instagram at TheMuscleMaven and give me feedback. Leave me a nice rating and review on iTunes so that my show can continue to exist.

If you think somebody else should listen to this awesome episode, take a screenshot, post it on social media, tag me, tag the muscle doc, tag shrug collective. We'll share it. We'll share the love. It's just going to be love all around. And also if you happen to live in Toronto, I am hosting an event on June 6th called the human potential party. This is a series that I've put together and I've done a couple, um, around the U S and Canada. It's really fun. It's just a gathering of basically fitness nerds. And it's going to be at this awesome spot called the simple kitchen. We're going to have healthy food and I'm putting together some goodie bags with some of my favorite products. We're having some very good guest speakers who

will be announced later. Pretty sure Muscle Beard Jordan Shallow is even going to be in attendance and tickets are limited. So if you want to come hang out with the cool kids in Toronto on June 6th, head to my website. It's ashleyvanhouten.com. That's my name. Don't expect you to spell it. So I'll put it in the show notes and get your tickets while you can, because I'd love to see you. All right. So that's it. Join me next week. I'm going to be speaking with a guest who was supposed to be this week, but I switched it.

And that is a pelvic health specialist. We're going to talk about the complexity of our pelvis and how the lack of proper function and understanding can contribute to things like peeing while doing double unders. Nobody wants that. Poor digestion, painful sex, muscle pain, lack of mobility, all kinds of scary things. So pelvises are complicated. We got a lot to learn. There's a lot to know. And I hope you come back with me next week and learn. So that's it. Thanks for listening.