Barbell Shrugged - Root Cause Health: The End of Symptom Chasing with Dr. Stephen Cabral, Doug Larson, Travis Mash & Dr. Mike Lane #835

Episode Date: February 11, 2026

In this episode, Dr. Stephen Cabral joins Doug Larson and Dr. Mike Lane to break down how he went from a decade-long "idiopathic illness" in his teens to building one of the biggest health education platforms in the space, including more than 3,600 daily podcast episodes. Cabral shares the turning points in his own recovery: years of heavy antibiotic exposure, chronic stress, gut dysbiosis (candida, H. pylori, SIBO), and even mercury accumulation from frequent tuna intake. That personal case study becomes the foundation for how he now thinks about root-cause medicine versus symptom suppression, and why conventional care often waits until labs fall out of range before acting. The conversation dives into Cabral's framework for how chronic issues typically develop: nervous system stress leads to endocrine disruption, which then cascades into immune dysfunction, often amplified by gut-driven inflammation. He explains a clear process-of-elimination approach to gut health, why bile flow and motility have become increasingly important as the science has evolved, and how stress management is often the missing link. Cabral also breaks down why resonance breathing can be one of the fastest ways to shift physiology, how he uses wearables like Oura and HRV tools without overwhelming clients, and why the best plan is always the one someone will actually follow. Finally, the group zooms out to the future of health and longevity. They discuss biological age testing, emerging longevity research, and the realities of training and recovery as you get older. Cabral shares how his practice balances structured lab testing, repeatable protocols, and ongoing accountability so clients don't just get a plan, but learn how to sustain results long term. Links: Doug Larson on InstagramCoach Travis Mash on Instagram

Shrug family. Today on Barbell Strug, we are joined by Dr. Stephen Cabral, a naturopathic doctor, functional medicine practitioner, educator, and host of the daily podcast called the Cabral Concept podcast, where he is a very impressive, well over 3,600 episodes. Probably the most episodes have ever heard anyone do, so very impressive. In this episode, Stephen shares his own journey from a decade-long mystery illness to rebuild his own health from the ground up and how that experience has shaped his root-cause approach to wellness. We talk stress, gut health, hormones, labs, training, and more. So if you care about optimizing your physiology and long-term vitality,

this episode is for you. Enjoy the show. Welcome to Barbell Strug. I'm Doug Larson here with Dr. Mike Lane and Dr. Stephen Cabral. Stephen, welcome to the show. It's great to be here. Thanks so much for having me. You really impressed me a second ago.

You said you have 3,600 episodes of your podcast. You've been doing it for 10 years? That is the largest number of shows I think I've ever heard anybody say. Well, I have the unique advantage of being able to do it on a daily basis. It's a little bit shorter, but it is something that I love doing. I've always loved to teach. And so when I had the opportunity, when podcast started to just get a little bit bigger in 2016, I was an active practice.

And I thought, well, in between patient appointments, I would take 15 minutes to 30 minutes or so maximum and talk about what I was literally going through in all my different wellness appointments each day. So, yeah, it's been a labor of love, and I truly do love it. Dude, a phenomenal resource to be able to refer people to after having an in-person or Zoom consultation with a patient and be like, oh, I've obviously answered that question somewhere in 3,600 episodes and you can just link them right to it. Yeah. What a benefit. Exactly. So, I mean, sometimes you forget on the last 3,600 shows, if you've covered it or not. So there's just a little search box. I search it. And with AI coming as well, and you'll be able to transcribe all those and have all of those answers. So I wasn't thinking about that at the time. I was just thinking about just like you said, we work. with people globally. So to be able to say, if I can just answer your question quickly, and that's all you wanted to know, here's a free podcast to check out. Sure, 100%. We're right on.

For anyone that doesn't know you, what's your background? How'd you get into health and performance? And I also know you have a kind of a personal health journey that you went through when you were younger that spurred kind of where you are today. So share that with the audience here. Yeah. So when I was growing up as a kid, I was always into sports. And in high school, I did three different sports. Very much enjoyed it. But as you were, alluding to at 17 years old, all the essentially limp nodes in my body began to swell one November day. And I went to the doctors and just thought, okay, well, I've got another cough cold flu sickness. And unfortunately, I didn't know it, but that would be 10 years of going to over two

dozen different medical specialists in Boston and almost another 50 or so different natural health practitioners. And just to make a 10-year story much shorter, I ended up. having what they called an idiopathic illness. This is when you don't know what it's coming from, but you can see your immune system shutting down. So, I mean, this is in the mid-90s, and although information back then and sharing was great, it's not like it is today. I mean, like, it's hard to really, I mean, if you think about it, going back to the mid-90s, you had encyclopedias, and you had people calling each other, but there was no real internet. I mean, I'm from Medford, Massachusetts right outside of Boston, so at least it wasn't touching me. And so they thought I had

cancer. So they continued to look at that. I didn't have cancer. They thought I might have HIV. It's like not really possible. I have HIV, but okay, I don't have that. And eventually I found, and this was hard to believe, because there wasn't a lot of functional medicine doctors back then, but I found a functional medicine doctor through referral. And they ran what we now called the stress minimetalism test, and they saw that it wasn't producing cortisol. And so they looked at all my hormones. They looked at cortisol. And I said, this is strange. You might have Addison's disease. Well, that was the beginning. Turns out I had Addison's disease. I had an autoimmune disease called rheumatoid arthritis. I had type 2 diabetes,

which was caused by the Addison's disease. I'd ask reflux, I had allergies, insomnia, like a whole host of issues. How could one person have all of these? And that led me down the rabbit hole. I mean, I grew up very skeptical, science-minded, all of these things, but I realized there was more than just your typical blood work in order to be able to look for underlying root cause disease. For example, I had SIBO and H. Pylori and yeast overgrowth in my gut. And those were things that were not even really talked about in conventional medicine until about a decade or so ago. And now, of course, you know, on Harvard Medical's website and all these great universities, they're talking about it. So that's what led me into this space.

I mean, it really is. I had to meet my mentor at 27, Dr. Pete, to kind of put it all together. And once she did, again, I'd read thousands of books. I'm an OCD-type individual, of course, with a daily podcast, 36 other shows. very OCD, right? But she did. She put it together and she helped me heal and within six months, I was better and since then I've really been trying to pay it forward really in the work that I do. Awesome. Well, I was going to say before that, I became a personal trainer, strength and condition specialist, nutritionist, which might relate to a lot of your audience

because I couldn't fix what was going on inside of me. So I said, all right, if I can't fix what's going on in the inside, I'm going to try to work on the outside. And I'll tell you, the gym was my salvation, obviously besides my faith in God, but it was that when I was going through my darkest times. I mean, I had no energy, flew like symptoms. I was still going through college and trying to get good grades, do the whole thing. But it was, I was depressed. Like there's no other way to put it. And so I found the gym and I found my love for doing that. And even through college, I went to Providence College undergrad. I was training clients, working with clients. And I very much enjoyed it. Very few people knew what I was going through. And that led.

That was just a natural progression then to saying, okay, I'm going to go back now in my later 20s to get my doctor degree in naturopathy and intern all around the world. That's awesome. So obviously, unfortunately, your story is something that shows up of a lot of folks that had misattribution or obviously don't you love the whole bucket of, well, something's going on, but you don't know exactly what the mechanism is. So good luck. I've got something I care very deeply about that they had a bunch of symptoms. and the doctors thought it was a lack of SSRIs. They're like, oh, you're depressed. And it turns out, thankfully, the person,

they only had to go to the third opinion, not the 500th, where it turns out they had a hypothyroidism, specifically a Hashimoto's antionimmune or autoimmune. And once they actually had an ultrasound of their thyroid, they found nodules and actually had to have a partial thyroidctomy. Otherwise, they would have literally died of cancer, but they would have felt a little bit better thanks to the SSRIs. for a couple of years until that happened.

It's the difference, obviously, between death avoidance and health care, and obviously I'm choosing that language appropriately. So hence, when you were trying to parse down, what was essentially the first root-caused domino that whenever you got into it, that was the thing that gave you the initial momentum to move in the right direction. That's a great question.

That's what, even though, again, conventional medicine, best in the world at acute-based care. So life-saving care, if you need it, You go to your best in class hospital, and for sure, I'm glad that we have that. All the medical-based technologies, and truthfully, in 10 years from now, we probably will routinely now be able to live to 100-plus years old. That's going to be amazing. But I'll tell you this, they do not look at, they learn disease pathophysiology, but they do

not practice that in medicine. All they look at is your blood work, and if your blood work looks good or good enough, even if it's within range, but almost a tenth of a point out of range, they say, well, everything looks good. And so conventional medicine, not doctors, but conventional medicine has become, we are going to not do anything until you're out of range. And then when you're out of range,

we're going to give you a pharmaceutical to mask the symptoms. Yes, it might keep you alive a little bit longer, but you're not going to be thriving and never look for that root cause physiology. So what we found in our practice is that most root causes, now there are a lot. I talk about that in my first book, is that it could be environmental.

It could be exposure, but it's typically not the root cause. It just compounds it. It's usually, we call it neuro-endoimmune-based. So it starts with the nervous system, which is stress. The stressor could be physical, it could be emotional, it could be mental, whatever it might be, but there's a great stressor on you, a death in the family, a breakup, a really hard job, which you're not sleeping, et cetera. That then affects your endocrine system, right?

So why are there so many men with low testosterone? Well, I would say that it's based on high levels of chronic, unrelenting stress, training hard, but also not sleeping, not producing, or getting the reduction in cortisol to allow then the rebound in testosterone and natural growth hormone. But again, this affects everything, right? So if cortisol levels are elevated, norpenephine levels are elevated, there is a balance to everything in the body. So that means sex hormones for women mainly progesterone and for men mainly testosterone that are going to start to dip. And then there's a reason, why one out of five women and one out of eight men end up with low thyroid or functional low hypothyroidism, which you were just talking about. So all of these things are root cause, and then the immune system gets affected at the end. That's why autoimmune-based disease is not a root cause. It is a symptom of a deeper dysfunction. And so I would say that neuroendomune system, the stress, combined with gut-based dysfunction. So we always say there's only five things that could be wrong with your gut, which, you know, process of elimination. Great.

Is it parasites? Yes or no? We can do a stool test. No. Okay. Is it H. Pylori? Again, stool test, yes or no. And then after that, it's Cbo, small test, bacterial overgrowth. Got dysbiosis, we call it. Yeast overgrowth, which is usually it's one and the same with it. And the last one is food sensitivities. And so we've got those five that we can begin to look through with at-home lab testing. And most of those cause inflammation, which causes then leaky gut, which then causes, again, a lot of the autoimmune issues like Hashimoto's. So what we do is we look at those two first, but it could be heavy metals, it could be mold, it could be a lot of other issues that they have.

Dr. Andy Galpin here. As a listener of the show, you've probably heard us talking about the Artei program, which we're all incredibly proud of. It's a culmination of everything Dan Garland and I have learned over more than two decades of working with some of the world's most elite performers, award-winning athletes, billionaires, musicians, executives, and frankly, anyone who just wanted to be able to to be at their absolute best. Artae is not a normal coaching program. It's not just macros and a workout plan. It's not physique transformation or pre-imposed pictures. Arate is something

completely different. Aratee is incredibly comprehensive and designed to uncover your unique molecular signature, find your performance anchors, and solve them permanently. You'll be working with not one person, but rather a full team of elite professionals, each with their own special expertise to maximize precision, accuracy, and effectiveness of your analysis and optimization plan. Artee isn't about treating symptoms or quick fixes. It's about unlocking your full potential and looking, feeling, and performing at your absolute best, physically and mentally, when the stakes are the highest. To learn more, visit Arteelab.com. That's A-R-E-T-E-Lab.com. Now, back to the show. So you had what, four, five, six separate conditions that you were diagnosed with when you were in your late teens there and then you somehow were able to unwind all that.

And then now you're highly educated and you could probably look back and see what was done with you and maybe have your own opinion about it. Like how have things changed between how you got out of that situation for yourself and how you would, if a client came to you in a similar situation now, would it be the same type of process or the same treatments or have things advanced? What's the difference between now and then? So amazing advancements and truly through the sharing of information. So once, not even the early 2000s, but like just a little later, like 2007, 2008, there was just so much then more sharing of information. First on blogs and different articles people were writing and then YouTube started to come out. And then more great books were published and people built on other people's work.

And then there was also more clinical-based research into a lot of the natural health-based field as well. Because even though I'm a doctor of naturopathy, everything that we do is clinical-based, and it's all research-backed. And people find it hard to believe, but literally, like, everything that we're talking about is not only one study. We're talking about hundreds, if not thousands of particular studies, just on a specific herb, like verbering to help with non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, right? Like, it's like these things are out there. And, of course, that's not the only thing we're going to do.

It's not, you know, green medicine is like giving a supplement where you would use a medication. it's looking at, well, what is the root cause of that? Okay, and we start to look at those things. So what I would say, it's twofold. One is that I have the opportunity to intern in many countries around the world because I am skeptical by nature, and I still thought that there was going to be one Occam's razor, like one form of medicine that would be the best for all people. And there just isn't.

So like I would study in Arrivada clinics, traditional Chinese medicine, bioregulatory medicine, all these great places. And it would help a lot of the people. not everybody. And so what I really quickly realized was that like acupuncture is amazing, but it's not going to fix all people all the time. It's not great for nervous system disorders, great for sleep-based issues, great for even circulation and repair. It's not going to get rid of a parasite. It's just it's just not. And so it's like you want to use an integrative modality. That's why right now I run what's called the Integrative Health Practitioner Institute. We've taught over

5,500 practitioners to not say there is one best form of medicine, but to look at a myriad of four. We look at seven different forms and to move people through a very specific protocol. And I'm happy to share that. But also, people don't get, they don't heal overnight. So I look at it now. Mine was a 10 year journey. And I'm actually quite thankful that it was because I couldn't have learned everything if I got well in a month or two. Like I just went on with my life.

And so I had to learn a lot. I had to learn a lot of what didn't work. Now I say if someone comes into our practice as bad as I was, six months, maybe eight months. and they'll then be back in balance. And that's with autoimmune-based issues for the most part, where it really affects the immune system at a deep level. So, yeah, that's where we're at right now. Most people, 12 to 16 weeks, truthfully.

Gotcha. Wait, one more time for yourself. What was the key factor that unlocked health for you when you actually healed for yourself? Yeah, so this goes back a little bit because you have to say, okay, well, what was the root cause? Well, part of the root cause, there's never usually just one, but part of the rude cause was when I grew up and I grew up in the 80s and the 90s and antibiotics were very prevalent for everything. And so my pediatrician literally gave my mom.

There was four kids under five years old in my house. She just gave my mom Zepachs, Zycin. And we just, every time we had a common cold, we just took a ZPack. Sure. Like it got rid of it, even though it was viral base. Like it's like, you know, it was because it would just be gone in three to five days anyways. But when I was at 14. years old, I went to a dermatologist who, again, well-meaning, didn't mean to hurt me,

put me on twice a day on moxacicillin for over three years. I swallowed 3,000 capsules of antibiotics before my 18th birthday. So it decimated my gut, which then, not even known back then, absolutely disregulated my immune system. So I had a dozen things wrong with me because when your immune system becomes dysfunctional, and it sees everything, pouring into your bloodstream and it creates essentially a cascade of inflammation, well, there's a lot that goes wrong and then your genetic. So people could say, well, it's all genetic-based. If I can get one thing across, it's that genetics matter, no doubt about it.

They predispose you to things, but that does not mean that it has to be your destiny. I am predisposed to rheumatoid arthritis. I had it from 17 to 27. I'm 47 turning 48 now. I don't have rheumatoid arthritis. I should. My parents and grandparents had rheumatoid arthritis. So it's in my genetics for sure, but I no longer have it. So antibiotics was part of it. And also, I grew up as the oldest of, again, four kids under five years old. My house was wild chaos all the time. I'm a type A, you know, hard charger type person, trying to get National Honor Society, try to get, you know, varsity letters in sports, working a job at the same time, trying to get in good schools. And I stress myself out. So besides all, you know, the immune issues from the antibiotics plus all the stress I put myself under, my body just collapsed at 17.

So you got off the antibiotics and then how did you kind of rebuild everything? How did you rebuild your gut, healthy bacteria, etc.? Well, that took a while because we didn't have formulated, so what we use now is called the CBO protocol, Candida Bacteria Optimizing Protocol. And so it's a 12-week program. And literally what it does is it uses, it uses. biofilm disruptors. Nobody was even talking about biofilm disruptors in the 90s or early 2000s, but now we know

we remove a lot of the film grown over parasites and bacteria etc. That can hold heavy metals. And so what I had to do was remove that and rebalance that gun. So if anybody wants to check it out, it's just the CBO protocol. And we open source all of our information, all of our teaching. And first I found out through at-home lab testing that I had these issues, right? So I had Candida overgrowth, you can run the Candida metabolic vitamins test. I had H. Pylori, which you can run on the Bacterian stool test.

I didn't have any parasites, which was great. That was the one thing I didn't have, right? And I had yeast overgrowth, I had bacterial growth, and I had lots of food sensitivities. But they also found something else, which was a heavy metal called mercury. Why did I have this? Well, when I'm in college, I'm trying to do natural bodybuilding. I don't have a big frame. I'm trying to bulk up, lip heavy, all these things, doing everything wrong.

course at 18 years old, but I would have my dinner at the, you know, college cafeteria, right? But then at 9 o'clock at night, I put a can of tuna on top of microwavable rice and some cheap olive oil, and that was another great meal right before bed. Well, when you do that five nights a week, that's a lot of mercury from all of that tuna fish. And so I had massive amounts of mercury in my body, too, that I had to detox out. So that was a big part of the plan. And then really through my 20s, after I got out of school, was also studying psychological. to try to rewire my brain to not be so just type A that that's the only way I can describe it to just chill out like that was really it to like listen like if you want to

live a long life you need to slow down a bit and just kind of just I don't even know any other way to put it just like stop being so hyper all the time that was basically it and work are you yeah are you are you suggesting rest in moderation, that sounds like cowardice to me. I mean, as far as I'm concerned, that should have been like three, four, five cans of tuna fish. Those are rookie numbers. They are, I get to get those numbers up. You're right.

But, you know, I mean, there's something to be said there. I was surprised you could even have bacterial overgrowth when you're mainlining that much antibiotics for that many years. Those survivors had to be some hearty bastards in your GI. Well, you're absolutely right, actually. And so it was yeast, it was candida overgrowth because antibiotics don't kill yeast and you're to have natural candideat albicans in your gut. But mine got so bad from the antibiotics that when they did it in endoscopy, because I had wild acid reflux at 17 years old, and I was put on prylosectomy.

I mean, it's put on so many medications. The Candide had grown up my esophagus. That's how bad it was. But now they took me off the antibiotics when I was 18, and that's when the bacteria started to reovergrow again. And at the same time, you know, you understand the microbiome. I mean, that research was very much so even in its infancy. I was getting my master's in nutrition in the late 2000s, I don't even think we even really touched on other than like, there's bacteria and there's more in your large intestine than in your stomach because your stomach's super acidic. Like, okay, duh. But I mean, we're still know too much is bad. A lack of diversity is bad. But what is the optimum of all those? Like we're still looking for that grail. So it's kind of, it's an interesting thing, especially when you bring up your podcast of that many episodes, like anything else, the science is moving forward. So, and I mean, if anything comes to mind, what would you say were certain things that you've since updated over all of those years of a decade of the daily podcast, we're like, well, actually, you've got better information here than obviously when we did 10 years ago, because that's just the nature of progress.

100%. And so we've realized that bowel motility is one of the most important things to look at in terms of gut overgrowth. So ball motility, the easiest way to say it is just how quickly food passes from when you eat it in your stomach throughout of your body and a bowel movement. Now that the time should be a 12 to 24 hour transit time for the most part. And Dr. Mike, I would say, you know, what are your thoughts on that as well? But that's what I've seen to be optimal for most people. But doctor, conventional medicine doctors be like, well, a couple times a week is okay as well. It depends on the person. Like, no, it's never okay because that bacteria begins to overgrow in the intestines and cause a whole host of other issues. So what we've seen is that many people, like we have a protocol that works, but if we don't fix bowel motility and someone is constipated, that now that constipation could be from stress, it could be from gut dysbiosis, it could be lack of bile production, which starts with lack of stomach acid. So like all of these things we need to fix at the same time because it's not an overnight process. And also everything has to work perfectly as

nature intended it. And if it doesn't, that's when we start to see the overgrowth. People can give themselves sebo. Like that was never thought about before small intestine bacterial overgrowth. And the way that it works is that your small intestine, about 20, 21 feet, flows in your large intestine, your colon, about five or six feet. But there's a valve and it's supposed to be a one-way valve, a lot like your lymphatic system, called your iliocecal valve. And that bacteria that you were talking about your colon, it should never come back in your small intestine. Your small intestine is supposed to be, it's not sterile, but it's more acidic, and it doesn't

have the same bacteria that your colon has. Your stool is about 50% bacteria. And so if someone's stressed, that valve may not stay closed, almost like the lower syloreal, when some people get acid reflux. If you're stressed, it doesn't stay closed, right? And so we need to, we always have to think about stress. Stress causes so much dysfunction in the body. Wait, keep going down that track.

Let's talk stress and all the different kind of factors that play into it. Well, there's the mental, emotional, physical, and maybe spiritual in some cases. And so we look at that. And I'll tell you, again, I wrote about this because I just, as a practitioner, you just start to see trends. And whether it's written in a textbook or not, it really doesn't matter. It'll be written 10 years from now, even when I got into personal training and strength the conditioning and all those great things. I would study under Dr. Mike Boyle, not Dr. Mike Boyle, who's amazing and Mark Bustagan and Juan Carlos

back then, like so many great guys. And they were doing this before like a lot of great exercise physiologists would put this through the rigor or PhDs to write about it. And so I got to learn from them because they just had done this for so long, like in the 70s and 80s. When I started, well, I was later 90s and early 2000s working with them, but I got to see that firsthand. And so, you know, what I would say is what I wrote about was that genetics matter. So we should know our genetics.

But then it is our genotype moves into our phenotype. It's who we become based on our, and I call it the de-stress protocol. It's how we get well or unwell. Diet, exercise, stress reduction, toxins, rest, which is your sleep, emotions, supplements and also success mindset a mind your mindset so if those falter they hurt you if you're dialing them in for your unique bioindividuality then you you're winning right and so what we look at is that's that's you know how how are you doing for me stressed out high school student senior right taking antibiotics

so that was that was a mess called filling up the rain barrel right well what made it overflow honestly yes I had the gut issues and the antibiotics but really what happened was I was trying to get a scholarship to college to help my parents pay for college. Again, we had four kids under five years, and I was working at the same time. I was too stressed out. And it just, the stress just deteriorated my body. And some people that affects more than other. So that was kind of like that, that overflowing the rain barrel was, yes, all the other stuff

was happening. And then the stress put it over the edge. And that's what it is for most people. Most autoimmune issues. And alopecia, another one, I don't know if you've ever had money on the show. But I started to see this over and over is that there was always a breakup in a relationship, a death of a loved one or a loss of a job in financial-based distress that caused these things in people.

It wasn't the underlying root cause, but it was that proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. Fascinating. Is there any way to localize alopecia to just your back? Just asking for a friend. Well, can you repeat that again? Sorry. Is there any way to localize alopecia to only your back? just asking for a friend.

I haven't figured that one out yet. No, not yet. But, you know, the stress part is such an interesting, not necessarily Gordia not, but, you know, as you realize in your practicing, there are, everyone has their own different stress tolerance and then also perception of stress. You know, you've met that person that's like, I'm going through bankruptcy again. We're going through another ugly breakup,

and they're just like, ain't nothing going to break my stride. And other folks are like, I got cut off on the way to work today, and I don't know if I'm going to find the will to carry on. I'm like, okay, cool, cool, cool. How do you navigate? I mean, of course, the stereotype is most people, especially by the time they find you, are probably living with far too much stress.

I figure it's probably rare that you run into somebody who has too little stress in their life. And then of course, everyone in the internet right now is like, oh, those bastards. What would you say are the things that you try to start on first, just behavior-wise for stress? Is it perception, you know, addition through subtraction, what do you like to use tools-wise there?

Yeah, so I don't want to go into that, but we work with, so the majority of our practice is everyday people, right? What we work with, we work with billionaires, we work with multiple CEOs and Olympians and UFC fighters and NFL athletes and all these great people. It honestly is the people that let things roll off of them and that can rebound quickly that do so well. Like it's unbelievable.

And mindset is such a big part of life. and in recovery and everything. I've seen two people with the same thing. And one just has the mindset like, okay, this is another blip in the whatever road. And like, we're just gonna move on past it. And they're gonna get well and they recover. And some people, it's career.

And that's just the way that it is because they've heard someone else, it was their way too. So we're a big advocate of like mental health coaches, performance coaches and all that. I've had one myself and it was game changing. Like I'd already studied to college. I've studied these things and I thought I knew it. But when you have to apply it to yourself, so much better to have someone else help you apply it to yourself to see your blind spots.

So definitely recommend that. But for us, what we're doing is we're looking at, well, what can help someone reduce stress? There's nothing that works faster than breathwork. Literally nothing in the world that I've ever seen, something like resonance breathing, not a Wim Hof style breathing, which again, I'm not saying it's bad. But that's going to increase adrenaline. That's going to increase basically fight or flight. What we're looking for is to decrease fighter flight and increase the parasympathetic nervous system, so rest and relaxed. So that's typically resonance breathing, and it's built into a lot of apps.

Like we'll use the polar H-10 heart rate monitor with the elite HRV. It's a free app for people that literally watch the circle close, watch the circle expand, breathe in through their nostrils, out through their nostrils. And we'll watch someone's HRV double. So heart rate variability is an unbelievable metric for the circle. essentially just the parasympathetic nervous system, right? So the better variability between heartbeats. And I don't know if you guys have talked about this on the show, but it's one of the best ways that we look at recovery

and overall, not one night's sleep or one night overall, but where's an athlete moving to or a regular individual? So breathworks a great one. Turning off those blue lights at night, it really does matter. It just makes a big difference. Again, for some people, like my wife, she can be in the brightest of blue lights

in the entire world. Her head is the pillow. She gets at 92 on her o'erring sleep score, and she's out in five minutes. I'm just not that person. She is. She's just built like that. And so we look at what things matter for each individual.

We use PMF, we use sauna, we use Epsom salt bath two hours before bed, heat the body up and let it cool down naturally. So all the things, we try to do. But what we try to do is see we work on variables. So like this is what's changing my practice, is that instead of doing 10 things, 12 things, We'll use the 80-20 rule to say, what are the 20% of things that we do that move 80% of your physiology? And we'll try to find that out within like the first four to six weeks by just testing individual variables, the ones that we've seen give the most benefit.

And if someone's not going to do it, then it doesn't matter if it's the best thing for them. We move on to the thing that they're going to do. So we're looking. We're playing the game right now. On that note, how much of data collection and objective metrics drive your decisions versus simple trial and error? There's got to be a combination of both. But what's like your intake look like?

What data do you focus on first and then when you start just like trying stuff and just seeing how it plays out? So we have a pretty good health history questionnaire and then we do an hour consult just as an intake just to really see what's going on. But we've already run what we call the big five labs. So the big five labs, I won't name them all, but basically. looks at all your vitamin levels, all your mineral levels, looks at heavy metals, looks at gut function, looks at food sensitivities, looks at omega-6s to omega-3s in terms of inflammation in the

body, and then it looks at all your hormones, cortisol levels, thyroid, H-T-A-1-C, sorry, hemoglobin HB-A-1C, and yeah, and so, and those are all done at home. So we ship those all over the world because although I'm a big believer in blood work and everybody should do it, I think every six months, honestly, not even just once a year, it's not going to look at the deeper underlying things and that's what we want to look at. Like you can't test cortisol four times a day upon waking before lunch, before dinner, and then before bed. And we really want to know the before bed one, honestly, because that's going to help improve deep sleep, REM sleep. So we have all that information, probably 500 different biomarkers per person on the big five labs. We've got

their health intake. So because the person's story does matter. Remember, every lab you take is always a snapshot in time. So we take that snapshot in time. And then we look at the person's health history. and then we make the recommendations. Now, the recommendations are, I've been doing this for 26 years full time, and we've worked with over 300,000 101 client appointments. So we have a large collection of data of what we believe to work, but that doesn't mean it's going to work for you.

And so what we start with is what we believe will work, and then we're in touch on a daily basis for the first couple of weeks, and then after that is typically once a week to do our check-ins and test variables. In terms of daily, we're using typically an Apple Watch or an aura ring, we're mainly just we like the o'erring because we're just looking at the overnights for the most part we do care about what's going on in the day but it matters it's only more technical for an athlete or someone that needs to be measuring like well okay where your greatest drops in hrb during the day oh okay this is interesting it happened when this this and this happens so if we really need to dial

it in we do that like we don't count macros we don't count calories we don't count anything like that unless we need to for the client because we're just adding another level of complexity And these are busy people running companies or their family household, whatever they're doing. So we'll dial in it as much as we need, but we're looking at bigger picture and specific protocols. And we run people through them. And then we look at because you won't know until you try, right? So it's kind of a long way of saying was we need to put you through the protocol that we typically do based on your particular condition. So gut health protocol, heavy metals, thyroid protocol, whatever it is.

And then based on your reaction to that, we're then going to make individual adjustments for you. It's always fascinating, excuse me, the difference between the science and the art of coaching. Like when some folks might balk out, like, wait, you're not looking at every macronutrient intake and doing a full dietary analysis. Like, I don't need to break down everything. They told me they did four gas station hot dogs for lunch. I think the problem is not their macros. It's their food choices. And with your, and I'm very pragmatic just like you, of like, let's find the solution for the individual.

How many days, like, how long do you like? How long do you like to see trending information on HRV changes to give you that indicator of like, you know what, we're throwing it out. Let's try the new tool. Or it's trending in the right direction. Let's keep going here. And then maybe we layer on. Like, I know that's kind of hard to give us a perfect framework there, but like kind of what's your basic thought process towards it. Yeah. And so I also want to clarify, it's not that we don't give them a nutrition plan. It's just here's your column of acceptable proteins. Here's your column of acceptable. vegetables, depending on the plan that they're on, based on how it's going to be tolerated

with their gut. Here's your acceptable starches, whether there's any grains or not grain. So it's like, but we don't say, like, you can only have this much. We just say, yeah, about a cup of protein at a meal, about two to three cups of vegetables per meal. And then you can have this. So it's like, it's not, we know their macros, but we're not having them count if that makes sense. And so it's kind of general. And it also depends on like where the person's coming in. If we, again, if we work with a specific UFC fighter and they're working with someone that has everything dialed in, honestly, their coach is going to handle that. Like their coach is going to work with that.

We're going to work on getting their thyroid optimized, getting their testosterone optimized naturally with no, you know, T or anything like that because that's not what they can use, right? So that's what we're going to do. And we actually love working with other coaches. And, you know, we do what we do. They do what they do. And it works fantastic. So in terms of the dialing in, though, at the end of every consultation, and mine are a little

bit different. So like with our team, it's, it's typically 60 to 90 minutes for those big five labs to go through and get their plan. We already do the pre-work, right? We spend about the same amount of time during your consultation. We spend reading your labs and writing your plan. I do, I only work with one new client a week. I oversee all the teams and all the labs that come in. We do somewhere between 50,000 and 100,000 labs a year. And I'm working with a hard case and I do a three-hour what I call deep dive. So I do three hours of prep and I do a three-hour. And I do a three-hour consultation and I go through MRIs anything that they have and then at the end of that though so about 45 we'll call it an hour out from the end of the consult I go over their wellness plan

with 30 minutes left I call it let's make a deal I said realistically after this call what are you going to be able to implement and we go through it and it says accountability it's like okay I'm holding you to this because I didn't spend these three hours and neither did you in order to not get results. So I'm very driven on results. And so I focus on what I know will work. And then also, okay, you're not going to, you're not going to join a gym and do three days a week of strain training right now. Okay. Well, what can you commit to? Can you, you don't even, you walk 3,500 steps a day right now? Can you commit to adding 1,000 steps per week? So 10 more minutes of walking, that's it. And so I'll always get people to do 7,500 to 10,000

steps first. Then I'll start to get in some body weight training. And I know, it seems like, you know, rudimentary, but they haven't been to the gym in 20 years. And so now we're doing body weight training. And then they get some wins under their belt. They're sleeping better. They're feeling better. Then I get to the, that I get them to the gym or a home gym workout twice a week with weight training. And we just build from there.

So I always look at it as not, oh, I need to get this person well in the next seven days. Like, no, we're going to move you through the foundations. And then we're going to get to what we call high performance health, which then you're going to be worried about anti-aging, longevity, heart disease, you know, all. slimer's dimension like that, we don't even need to worry about that until we get the body balanced. So you have a big intake process, a big meeting at the beginning. They commit to whatever the next steps are for them. And then what's it like from there on now?

Are you meeting with them on a quarterly basis or monthly? Are they meet with your team? Are there check-ins and retesting? How does the rest of the program work? In an ideal world, we're doing weekly email check-ins with daily chat. If they have any follow-up questions, we want to make sure that they're supported. So we have a whole concierge team there, and then once a month calls. So that that's really important.

You just can't learn everything, even in a three-hour call. I mean, how can you impart the knowledge that you need to? And even so, we think about a 90-minute call. Like, you're on a call with someone, you know, Dr. Mike, and you're like, okay, sharing all this nutrition information. I remember the first time I went in it like 19 years old into like a real nutritionist, like a real gym. And they gave me all this information, like a big packet of information that I was blown away. but I had way more questions that I had answers because I didn't know any of this before. I didn't even know these questions I asked and now I'm like I don't know I just was told to take

MCT oil in like 1998 and I'm like what is what's a medium chain triglyceride? I thought triglycerides were bad this guy wants me to swallow triglycerides I'm like what's going on and there's no internet right so I was like how do I even find out about that like and so we want people to bring their more in-depth questions to the next call and not just go back and forth through email. It's on text chat or instant messenger. So, you know, that's, that's how I look at it. It's monthly education and building off of it. And I can honestly say, like, even with my personal training clients back in the 90s and early 2000s, I'm telling you right now, after I work with those clients for five years or so, they could write programs. They didn't need me to write

programs, but I was holding them accountable and I was making sure that they were literally, like, still enjoying it and getting them, I was learning, always learning, going to seminars, and I would be giving them the next thing. So they can count on me or take. teammate or any of the integrative health practitioners to give them that next thing, because there's always a next thing. Like, that's the thing is I spend an hour a day reading research so that I'm like, all right, well, like, what's the next thing? Like, what is the thing that I'm missing or can I grow off of that I want to learn for myself because I'm deeply into this myself and for others as well? And that's just a good quality coaching is the good old teaching Amanda Fish metaphor, where,

A, you're creating sustainable habits that you know that they're going to be able to go forward. And of course, if they understand the why, you know, the rationale, the likelihood you're going to buy in is always going to be better than because I said so. Yes. And as we are all married men on this conversation, I still learn new things about my wife. And we've been in this for over a decade now. So, you know, with those clients, it's fascinating where, you know, I'm not that you're not doing your due diligence with the three hours of homework and then three hour interaction. But I'm quite sure over those months, you get a little other, you know, piece of information like, oh, we did not have that earlier and now I need to do this

you know as a modification because yes I've had clients that you have those conversations with them and then month number what you're like oh so you thought corn dogs are a vegetable because there's corn on the oh I guess so many yeah interesting stories around that yeah it's fascinating like with one client

we're just saying like sleep could be the most important thing to improve your overall health your body transformation aging everything and this metric was not improving and so I like I'm a tough love kind of individual so after talking with them for a couple months I'm like like what's really going on like you're not getting more than six hours six and a half hours of sleep every night it's disjointed your heart and fear ability is not improving your body temperature's not going down within the first three

hours like we've given you the things that we know work but maybe they're not like I need to know like I'll do more work for you I'll do more homework that's what a lot of patients and clients don't know is like their coaches are doing endless hours of work for them outside of those appointments to help them like that's our job and I mean I love it I'm not I'm not complaining at all and so then they would say well truthfully my husband likes to watch TV in bed and it is what it is until he turns the TV off I never really get to sleep and like oh I'm like all right well I can't get in the the way of a marital based issue here can you you know talk with your husband about watching

baby tv in the living room or whatever it might be but yeah you like if you don't get to bed till midnight and you need to wake up at six well it can be difficult to get more than six hours of sleep and that's where you know i've got clients that have got young kids so it just turns out they can't tell the one year old to not fry you know that is what it is so then at least in my experience it's like well sleep is going to be what it is so we have to strive to be better with nutrition we have to strive to be better with breath work you know what is the like you talked about like what can you give me so obviously like for if sleep is something we can't optimize what's your typical go-to for your number two priority

you're exactly right on that like there are some things that are out of control i started my so i had um a nutrition personal training studio in boston and still had it and then my second location which was a functional medicine wellness center in like 2012, 2013. I just had my first child. I was building out the space, like all in, like all the money I'd ever saved in my life, plus credit cards went into this. It had to work. There was just no other way.

And I was working easily, easily, 80-hour weeks, super stressed, all the things. My biological age, you know, was probably like 70 years old, not getting sleep because my, you know, six-month-old was not sleeping. And so it was a rough period of time. So for myself, and again, like, it's nice. It's not, trust me, while you're in it, not fun, but you learn so much from it. And so I could empathize them with clients. And I said, here's what you need to do.

Your nutrition needs to be as dialed in as it can be. You can't get away with the inflammatory foods and all of that. And I can't go for world-class workouts when I'm not sleeping or even getting six hours night. Like, where's my recovery? Okay. So I'm going to be, I always say there's an energy. and energy out equation. You can get away with it when you're in your teens and 20s.

Less so when you're in the 30s, definitely not as you get into your later 40s and certainly not in your 50s and 60s, right? So it's like, okay, what activities in your life are bringing energy in? You have to start to think about that. And you're like, I can't really think about it. Okay, well, let's start to look at it. Do you get massage? Do you get massage? Do you phone roll? Do you take a 20-minute meditation or nap? Do you do PMF? Do you do red light therapy. Do you get eight hours sleep at night? Like you go through all the things that bring energy in to you take good nutritional supplements, good nutrition. Okay, energy in, great. Energy out is going to be hard workouts, you know, your cardio, your stress at work. All of those things are energy out. You have to

look at the equation. You're not sleeping. You have to be careful with more energy out. So that's the big thing. People don't like to hear that. But it's a truth. We're finite and you can only recover from so much stress. I mean, you can give them the Bulgarian weightlifting team anecdote. And Yeah, if you are not recovering as hard as you're training, that asymmetry will eventually get you. I want to touch on what you brought up with the aging component because I think that's a piece that a lot of folks, they get suddenly surprised. Like, I was doing all these suboptimal behaviors, and I got away with it when I was 20, and I got away with it when I was 30. But now that the machine is wearing down, I can't get away with it anymore. Like the anecdote about your hangovers, like when you're in your 20s, it's in minutes.

and then, you know, in your 40s, it's weeks. So, you know, like how do you approach that or how do you like to teach just the reality of both aging and then the importance of behaviors as part of that? And it's, I mean, you're exactly right with that. But it's also even more compounded by body types. And body types are a real thing, you know. So in Ariveda, they talked about the Vata, the pitta and the kafa. 6,000 years ago, they knew about body types. So just think about Vata as the leaner individual.

They can eat all the carbs in the world they want. They don't put on much weight. They don't have a lot of muscle. They don't have calves at all. They're just not a big human being, right? The outer shoulders, all of those things. Okay. Pitta is more of the more musk, visually muscular individual.

I could go on and on. The kappa is more of the individual who can't do a lot of carbs. Honestly, they look at them and they put on weight. They're more, they're stocky, they're more round. But they have great. immune systems, very robust, and they don't need as much sleep. So Vata or ectomorph, so in modern day, we know it as the ectomorph, mesomorph, endomorph, right?

Okay, well, you can wear on an endomorph, and those are the people that make it through like special forces training, right, pitta or endomorph body type. Avata is going to get crushed. They just can't deal with the levels of inflammation and stress on their nervous system. Because remember, muscles are pretty adaptive, right? But it's the nervous system, really, that becomes overtrained or burnt out over time if we want to use the word burnt out. And so we look at it as natural body type, genotype, phenotype where you are today in Ayurveda. They call it the procreity and vucriti, which is very fascinating in that work.

And then we look at age as well. So even the most robust body type, yes, as age starts to come on, and it's probably like a decade difference, they begin to wear down to. So we go back to the energy and energy out. We go back to also looking at every, and I should have stated this earlier, but literally every health condition in the world and imbalance comes down to a deficiency or a toxicity and typically both. So the raw material are the deficiencies. Does your body have the same reserves that it needs in order to be able to process daily

life? So like methylation is a big term we talk about lately and people are like, oh, well, we need more methylfolate. B9 is just the tip of the ice park for methylation. It's like, well, first of all, why didn't need so many methyl donors? The second is B9 is great, right? So we have a methyl donor. We need B12, right?

We also need B6 as part of the nervous system. And we need B2 to shell those methyl donors through the system in the citric acid cycle or the cramps cycle. So all of these things are extremely important, but toxicity is often what's overlooked. As we get older, we accumulate more deficits on the body. Sleep might be one of them, but really we're talking about gut-based dysfunctions that we overlook, food sensitivities that we overlook, metals from the environment, environmental-based toxins, and that quietly causes inflammation.

Finally, it's getting into its dew where we talk about microplastics, right? The amount of microplastics that people have now in their arteries is unbelievable. And it's not going away. we're not going to make less plastic. So I don't know if that necessarily answered your question, but there's a deficit that we all get as we get older, and then there's also an accumulation of toxicity. Now, that's also the key, though, to getting well and reducing biological age.

So I would say we were running these tests like 2010, and they were not good. And they're clinically plus or minus nine years in terms of biological age. So just a little, for the listeners, basically you have your chronological age, which is the numbers of birthdays that you've celebrated, and then your biological age, which is your biological entity, your body, how old it is? What does it look like on the inside? And so I'll tell you, used to be plus or minus nine years, really not very good scientifically in terms of validation.

Right now, it's actually pretty good. It's like plus or minus about a year and a half is the best to maybe three years. But all you want is to look at a trend. Like HRV is not perfect either. If you look at auror ring versus a polar heart rate monitor strap, Orring is going to be like 50% of what the polar heart rate monitor is. But as long as you're using like body fat calipers versus hydrostatic testing or whatever it might be, just use the same mentality every time.

Right. And then you're going to get the right reading. So what we look for is once someone's foundational, how do we reduce biological age? That's wear and tear stress in the organism so that we can get you do at least a decade below your chronological age. And people fail, they fail it when you're 10 years younger biological. Mm-hmm. Do you go back? Real quick, we're getting toward the end of the show here.

I want to talk about the future real quick. A lot of stuff you just mentioned that I feel like we'll be a part of this conversation, but over the last decade, I feel like we've been heading in the right direction. A lot more people are kind of exiting the medical disease-only world, covering up symptoms, world. They want to focus on longevity, kind of real health, so to speak, try to optimize their health be as healthy, strong, fit, lean, et cetera as possible. So we're heading in the right direction.

where do you see the future going here in the next three to five years or even beyond? Well, we, so I mean, the technology in terms of breakthrough research right now is going to 10x with many of my colleagues. Again, like I talk negatively sometimes about conventional medicine, but never of the medical doctors and the PhDs themselves who are doing great work. And so the very first biological reversal age study in humans was just launched last week, called ER 100. And so this was done in mice successfully, reversing age,

biological age by 20 to 30%, and it was also done in primates. The problem is, in the initial studies, it also could cause cancer. And so what they've done is at least refine it to a better degree so that they're now showing the biological age reversal. Well, the first human clinical trial is now starting. We know what human clinical trials take a long time. How are we going to be able to get around this in the future? most likely with AGI, ASI, so artificial superintelligence,

will be able to run many of these trials or models, yes, it's on a computer, to be able to find out these things decades in advance. And then I think what we'll be able to do, and I always like to, I always share this because I know that there'll always be, you know, new listeners is that we only die in our 70s. So average age right now for men is about 74, 75, for women in the U.S. is about 78, 79. So we only die before the age of 80 from heart disease, high blood pressure stroke, type 2 diabetes, cancer, or Alzheimer's dementia.

Okay, so those are the big five. After that, it's nothing. Like, slip and falls in accidents, kidney-based disease, typically from, like, type 2 diabetes and other factors. There's COPD from smoking. So, like, don't smoke, but don't get these five things. So we can honestly reverse heart disease-based issues, same with type 2 diabetes, definitely high blood pressure, and Alzheimer's and dementia, you can find 10 to 20 years in advance.

now with full body MRI scans no contrast so like we can take care of those so what do we need to fix honestly cancer cancer right now is still the wild card i help people with cancer support but i don't have a hundred percent answer i can help you reverse your blood pressure not overnight but for sure i can do that i can't say that about cancer honestly i do my best and we've got a lot of success but i can't make that claim and so i'm hoping that if we can solve that with specific immunotherapies we now they're dendric cells. So basically they're taking your dendrites and they're bringing them to look for specific cancers. It's unbelievable. And if we can get that breakthrough, we're going to have people routinely living to 100 years old, very healthily, because it's not just about how long you can get

someone to live. I mean, I want to live a long time, but not if I'm not active and not if I'm in pain, you know, the whole time. So that's where I see things going. Awesome. To go back to the body type, do you see that as a discrete or more of a continuous variable? And that obviously you see aspects on individual, but you on occasion find the pure example, so to speak. That's a great question. It's almost never pure, but you definitely do see it. And again, this isn't like there's positive or negatives, like the endomorph has an amazing immune system. Typically thick hair, great skin, all of these things, harder to lose weight, right? More prone to type to heart disease than high blood pressure. Okay, Vatapotid type can't gain weight

as easily, but more prone to anxiety and poor sleep. So like there's no. perfect body type, right? But luckily, well, I shouldn't say luckily, because if you think about it, you know how to balance your body type if you're more pure one thing. That's the truth. When it's a little bit of a mix, which it almost always is, then it's a little bit more challenging. But you can look at different people around the world and you can say, ah, those individuals are more of this particular body type and then you'll know how to help them to, I think, a greater degree in what they're predisposed to. But it's definitely variation. So just an example. A person might be 65% Vata-based body type, we'll call it 30% pitta, and 5% endomorph or kaffa.

And so, okay, this person is going to trend more towards higher anxiety, poor sleep. What do they need? Well, they'd be terrible for a low-carb diet, right? They'll do much better at carbohydrates, especially with some at dinner, to produce more serotonin, which will then help to produce more melatonin to calm their anxious mind. Now, on the flip side, it doesn't mean that a VATA can't show kafa-based characteristics when they're in balance. Or a kafa, who's been on an emaciated type diet, can exhibit Vata-based qualities as well. So we are born with the genotype, but our phenotype is what we've become.

I'll give you an example just with myself. I'm not naturally a big guy. I'm 5'8, naturally like 167, 170, just normally lifting weights, no big deal. I got my body naturally to 200 pounds, still the same height. I had to, I ate almost 300 grams of protein a day. I was doing three shakes, or I should say, yeah, three shakes, three whole meals, about 5,000 calories to get there. It's not natural for a human to eat 5,000 plus calories to get to a certain weight

and lift four days a week, but I was able to do it. So meaning with your body type, you can still make it do whatever you want through good science, but that doesn't mean that it's natural or healthy. say that I was almost at my most unhealthy in my early 20s when I was pushing 200 pounds. I could lift a lot. I could eat a lot. But I got pneumonia like five out of six winters. So, you know, I was totally inflamed.

I was in horrible shape during that time. Now, again, I had all my health issues. But I want to just, and with, we need to be grateful and thankful for who we are, how we were built, and just do our very best with what we do have. Now, balance that, work on longevity and anti-aging. I don't have too many clients who are now in their 60s who are saying like, oh, I want to go back to doing what I was doing in my 30s. You start to move in a direction where you want to be in great shape,

but you also want to be around for your grandkids. You want to be around to enjoy all the work that you put in for 40 years of life, real work. And so, yeah, we've got clients of all different ages. And I learned from them, honestly. I try to learn from those individuals, 15, 20 years old than me, be like, all right, I get it. I don't now what I do for my own training at 47 turning 48 is I love to train I really do it five days a week sometimes six but I don't overdo it I love to work out so I do it almost daily but now I don't overdo it so I can do it daily and I can do it for the next hopefully 40 50 years yeah awesome absolutely uh Dr Cabral uh appreciate you coming on the show sounds like you're doing a lot of good things in the world and you're pushing the industry in the right direction here so appreciate you coming on where can people find more about you social media newsletter I know you have a book that just came out as well.

Tell the people. I appreciate you having me on as well. This was a great conversation. It flew by. So my new book is called Personomics, the End of All Disease, and that is exactly what we're talking about here today, finding your unique biology through at-home lab testing or self-assessments that are in the book,

specific protocols, all those good things. So that's just personomics. And my website is all the things. So it's just stephen cabral.com, Steven with the pH, you'll find the Cabral Concept podcast there and and those 3,600 shows that you can just use the search box and hopefully find the answer you can search it for. Very cool. Mike Lane. Awesome.

Yep. Mike Lane, PhD on Instagram. Feel free to look me up. Very cool. I'm Doug Larson, Douglas E. Larson on Instagram. We are barbell shrug, barbell underscore shrug. We have a very similar-ish program to Dr. Cabral here at Rapid Health Optimization called Arte. If you want to work with Dr. Mike Lane and the whole team of Rapid Health.

You can go to Arteylab.com, A-R-E-T-E-L-A-B-D-com. Friends, we'll see you guys next week.