Barbell Shrugged - Sleep, Sex, Squats, and Positive Thoughts: Talking With The Founder of BIRTHFIT — Muscle Maven Radio Episode #22

Starting point is 00:00:00 Shug family, there's so many things going on that we're just going to put a little one and a half minute segment at the beginning of each show just to keep you in the know of everything that's happening. One Ton Challenge Live presented by FitAid. Friday night at the CrossFit Games in the FitAid Lounge from 5 to 8 p.m. We have Olympians, pro athletes, CrossFit Games athletes, and celebrity fitness trainers taking the stage to see how far we can push strength. Snatch, clean jerk, squat dead bench, the strongest people in the world coming to show up. Test how far we can push the limits of strength. To stay in the know on exclusive access to athletes, live streams, and leaderboards, go to live.onetonchallenge.com.

Starting point is 00:00:39 That's live.onetonchallenge.com. Also, starting next week, new shows coming to the Shrug Collective. The Business of Fitness with Jason Kalipa starting July 8th. Active Life RX. That's Active Life Radio with Dr. Sean Pastuch on Fridays and the Barbell Life with Coach Travis Mash on Sundays.

Starting point is 00:01:01 So the weekly lineup is going to be Monday. The Business of Fitness with Jason Kalipa. Tuesday, Real Chalk with Ryan Fisher. Wednesday, Barbell Shrug with Doug Larson and myself. Thursday, Muscle Maven Radio with Ashley Van Houten. Friday, Active Life Radio with Dr. Sean Pastude. Saturday, we're going to try and start getting two Barbell Shrugs out a week. It's a heavy, heavy load, but we're going to try to get back to that schedule. And then Sunday with Travis Mash, the barbell life. Also, I want to let everyone know we just launched our brand new store loaded with T-shirts, hats, one-ton, nutrition, macro, calculators, and more.

Starting point is 00:01:37 So head over to shrugcollective.com forward slash store. That's shrugcollective.com forward slash store to get stocked up on all the shrug swag. Have a killer week friends. Hey everybody. Welcome to muscle Maven radio. I am your host, Ashley, the carnivore Van Houten. And that is this week's nickname because I actually just came back from spending some time in barbecue town, AKA Austin, Texas. And I was there for a keto conference. And while I'm not actually keto, I've dabbled with it a little bit. It doesn't really appeal to me. Uh, there were still a lot of interesting discussions happening at this conference. I got to hang out with some very

Starting point is 00:02:22 cool people and meet some people that I'd only previously been Instagram friends with. And it turned out that there were actually a lot of interesting carnivore diet conversations happening there because there is a lot of overlap between the two. And carnivore diet is frankly more appealing to me than keto is for a number of reasons. And I think at some point I'd actually like to have a more fleshed out conversation about all of this on the show, but I'm not sure how interested you guys are in that. So if you are interested and you want to have a big kind of keto carnivore breakdown, you want us to, me and somebody else, to talk about the pros and cons and research around all of it, let me know so that I can gauge your interest. So reach out to me on Instagram. My handle is TheMuscleMaven. And just let me know your thoughts. But today's conversation

Starting point is 00:03:10 is about something even more primal than eating meat, if that's possible, and that is giving birth. And I'm talking to the founder of an Austin-based company called BirthFit. And her name is Lindsay Matthews. She's also a doctor of chiropractic, and she's a doula. And the mission of her company, BirthFit, is to cultivate awareness and enhance education throughout the parenthood transition through classes and coaching and workshops, as well as online resources so that moms or moms-to-be and their families can make informed and intuitive choices about their health and about their pregnancy and about birth. So that's a lot. That's a lot to deal with. And as you can imagine,

Starting point is 00:03:52 there's a huge physical element to this, prepping a human being to create and give birth to another human being. But that's not all of it. There's plenty of mental and emotional work and preparation that needs to be done too. And BirthFit addresses all of that. And that's what we're going to talk about today. So I'm going to ask Lindsay about some of her most memorable birth experiences as a doula. Oh my God. So scary. Uh, and we talk about good and bad exercises for pregnant women. We talk about how important sleep is and how it's possible to actually get it. Cause we've all heard that. And then we've all heard that people never sleep again when you have a kid. Um, and we talk about how important sleep is and how it's possible to actually get it. Cause we've all heard that. And then we've all heard that people never sleep again when you have a kid. Um, and we talk about how to get back into sex postpartum. So in case any men still want to listen to this one, that's where it gets interesting for you guys. Um, that's just the start. This has been,

Starting point is 00:04:39 uh, this was a really great conversation that I had with Lindsay. It was fantastic to sit down with her, uh, face to face, and I really hope you guys enjoy and get a lot out of this. So shout out, I got to do this before we get into it, to my show sponsor, Beekeepers Naturals, for keeping me from getting sick during my hectic trip to Austin, which involved a lot of planes and a lot of talking and a lot of running around and shaking people's hands and making so much eye contact. Yeah. The introvert in me is just, just wants to hide forever. I'm not drinking enough

Starting point is 00:05:11 water, sweating constantly because it's a billion degrees in Austin. I'm not complaining. It's great. But, um, so I brought two beekeepers products with me actually on this trip that helped keep me sorted out. One is the propolis throat spray, which I talked to you guys about before. It's basically nature's antibiotic. It's B Propolis, a by-product of honey, which has similar components, but including vitamins, minerals, antibacterial properties that people have been using for ever to help you fight off colds and gross germs. You just spray it into your mouth. It tastes like honey. Anytime you start to feel a little itch in your throat, I was using it on the plane.

Starting point is 00:05:49 I used it before I went to bed in all that crazy AC hotel room air. And I was using it when I got back from the expo if I was feeling a little scratchy or gross. And the other product that I brought is their hemp honey, which it comes in jars, but it also comes in these like little single serving convenient travel sticks. It's basically, again, just delicious raw honey.

Starting point is 00:06:11 So it has all of those antioxidants and vitamins, but also has per serving 20 milligrams of hemp oil, which we all know can help calm down your nervous system a little bit, make you feel a little bit chill. And there's actually research out there that just honey in general before bed can help you sleep, which is something I had never considered, but I've been trying it. And the best honey to use for that is stuff that already has hemp oil in it. So it's extra chill and it's a nice little sweet treat before you go to bed. It only has 20 calories, four grams of carbs per serving. So you're not going to die if you have honey before you go to bed and it's really delicious. So those two things have saved me this weekend. And if you want to learn more about these guys and the awesome products that they make, you can head to beekeepersnaturals.com forward slash muscle

Starting point is 00:07:00 maven. And you can use my sweet little discount, MuscleMaven, again, for 15% off anything that you buy. And you can follow them also on Instagram at beekeepers underscore naturals. And you can also reach out to me once again at the MuscleMaven on Instagram. If you want to ask me any questions about the products before you buy them, because I'm happy to chat with you about it. Love those guys. Love everything they do. Okay. That's it. Live from Austin, where I am probably covered in barbecue sauce. Here is my chat with Lindsay Matthews from BirthFit. Lindsay, thank you for being here. I really appreciate it. I'm going to try to keep my elbows off the table. Um, but thank you for being here. Yeah. Thank you for having me.

Starting point is 00:07:41 I'm excited to chat. Uh, you're lucky. No, I don't think anybody else is coming in here this weekend, but, um, so I'm in Austin cause I'm here for a conference and I knew that you guys were here. So I really wanted to, to make sure that we connected because over the last few months with my show on shrug collective, I've been trying to focus a fair bit on women's health, but like reproductive health and, um, all of the stuff that comes with like a fit pregnancy and just, you know, sort of women's fitness and health in general. And I think that we have a different set of issues and challenges and sometimes they're overlooked. And so I think that we need to have more people's voices like yours out there that can kind of speak to that. So I'm glad you're willing to talk to me.

Starting point is 00:08:27 Yeah, thank you. And I think you totally hit the nail on the head. You know, the strength and conditioning world and the fitness world was dominated so much by a masculine energy side. And there needs to be a deeper conversation, I would say. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if there's anything more physically daunting that I can imagine than having a kid. Yeah, and that's just probably one piece of the pie. Yeah. Like when we say we're training for birth, we mean mind, body, and soul.

Starting point is 00:09:03 And so the body, the physical aspect of it is just like a third of the puzzle. And, um, you know, we use the physical to start to cultivate an awareness in that metaphysical space. Okay. That's already getting deep. We're like 30 seconds in. People are like, Holy hell. Okay. Okay. I'm scared, but let's do this. So first, maybe just start by telling us a little bit about how you came to develop BirthFit. Okay, so that's a question. I became a doula and a doctor of chiropractic both in 2009. And so it's crazy, like I've actually, you know, spit those words into the universe this year. And it's like 10 years later, which is a whole decade, you know, spit those words into the universe this year. And it's like 10 years later,

Starting point is 00:09:45 which is a whole decade, you know, like crazy to think about. Um, I definitely have the gray hairs under here to prove it. Yeah. Dula, Cairo. Um, yeah, just even though just those two things. Um, but long story, I'll try to make sure, but it'll probably end up being long. Um, it's, I went to chiropractic school after I had a divine intervention to not go to medical school. Um, I originally went to Texas A&M university and studied abroad in Tanzania, Africa one semester. Wow. Yeah. Like I'm somebody that if it feels right in my gut, like I'm going to go there. And so something about that trip spoke to me.

Starting point is 00:10:31 It was a medical mission trip. But while on this trip, I was awakened to this other way of living, to this, it was just like there was so much more out there than what I had seen or grown up in in my little Texas bubble. And I was grateful for my experience, but I was wanting more. So I came back to the States and I was like, nope, not going to medical school. Even though I had done the MCAT and studied pre-med in undergrad. I was like, shit, what do I do now? So I started searching out alternative therapies

Starting point is 00:11:08 and circled back to chiropractic, which I was actually introduced to in high school because I blew out my ACL and my surgeon was progressive and he was like, you need to go see a chiro. What sport did you play? So I played soccer and I was a cheerleader. And in Texas, cheerleading is huge. If you're not a football player, you're a cheerleader. Yeah. So it's like kind of a requirement, um, in adolescence, but, um, that,

Starting point is 00:11:36 or the drill team, you know? Um, but yeah, I played, I was wanting to go play soccer in college, play, like be active the rest of my life. And then when I blew out my knee, you don't even get looked at for soccer and then forget about anything else. But yeah, that surgeon was like, okay, go see a chiro, go see a rolfer, go see an acupuncturist. I was like, what is all of this? But circling back, I started shadowing a chiropractor

Starting point is 00:12:07 in the summer after I went to Tanzania. I was like, yeah, this is what I want to do. So long story short, I applied, I was accepted. And I applied to a few schools, but I picked the school that was in Los Angeles. And as soon as I graduated from Texas A&M, I packed up my car. And actually, I worked three months like straight waiting tables. I saved 10 grand and then I packed up my car. So then I went to California. Was this happening concurrently with you being a doula? No. So once I got out there, then you're like mind blown by all the information and the experiences. And at the time I was studying chiropractic, I was interning, you know, getting my hands on as much as I could. So I started interning down at the

Starting point is 00:12:59 Olympic Training Center in San Diego with some docs there because I thought I wanted to go that sports med rehab route. Fast forward, realized it wasn't my passion like two years out of school. But at the same time, when I graduated in 2009, I became a doula. And so all this was like happening at the same time. So graduated two years after graduation. So like 2009 to 2011, I have this doula thing in my back pocket, but I'm also traveling around the world, like literally the world working on movie sets and working with like professional athletes. So they would hire me. How, how, dude, I already have so many questions. You're like, not even through the first question. How did you get work on movie sets? Like, well, I guess you

Starting point is 00:13:50 go to LA, you go to LA, but what I did was like meet a bunch of docs right when I got there. Um, and I met a guy, Dr. Vincent, who's super nice guy. Um, but I started interning with him and that's who I was working with at the Olympic Training Center and then um basically we just started rotating with clients after I graduated and so for example I would travel for two to three weeks with one client while him and another male doctor covered the office then we would rotate maybe him or somebody else would pick up my shift let's say in Prague and we would do that circle you know and then maybe there was a professional athlete in LA like for the Lakers or the Clippers or the

Starting point is 00:14:39 Galaxy or whatever that we would have to be on if they were in season. So it was like, it was this really awesome rotation of, you know, doctors supporting each other, but I was the only female. It was really amazing. I got lots of hands-on experience. And I like to say that athletes know their body better than anybody. So at that time, I was like getting all this hands-on experience and feedback from the patient, the client laying on my table. And they're like, it doesn't feel quite right.

Starting point is 00:15:12 Can we check that out? And I'd be like, OK, let me see you walk or let me see you squat. Let me see you crawl, whatever. And so their constant feedback was like more than anything I could have learned in a textbook, you know? Um, but then I realized like slowly, like probably about two years later, I was traveling around and I got really good at setting up in hotels, like clearing the fridges, getting my paleo shit in the fridge, you know? Yeah. I'm still not very good at that, but I'm trying. But you realize you can't have relationships. Like, I was gone, you know, half the year, which is wild.

Starting point is 00:15:50 And at that time, like, Skype was, like, the only communication device. WhatsApp, I think, sort of came around. But, like, we were messaging on Blackberries. Like, I had a Blackberry, I remember. That's not ideal. Yeah, or Facebook. But like in my spare time while I was waiting on set, I would read doula stuff. And that was, I was like, okay, so this is where my brain's going. Why did you have a natural inclination towards that?

Starting point is 00:16:18 You know what it was? I think initially it sparked an interest personally in me. And I had assumed growing up in, you know, a lower middle class family and, you know, very privileged in the sense that I got to go to school. There was food on my table, food on the table. My parents loved me and did the best they could with what they had. But birth was never talked about. Sex was never talked about. I never saw breastfeeding. You know, I never saw birth. And so I was assumed that birth would happen in the hospital and or based on, you know, what I saw in the movies. And me I grew up like a severely asthmatic kid and so the last asthma

Starting point is 00:17:07 attack I had which was in fourth grade put me in the hospital ICU for like a week and after I got out of there I was like I'm never going back to the hospital again so I like wrote off childbirth and I don't want to do this yeah yeah So the more I started reading and then after I started attending births and being exposed to the birth scene in Los Angeles, I was like, you can have an out-of-hospital birth or a birth center birth or there's like options. I think what sparked it was that people, like this information wasn't available to people. People don't know that they have the options. Yeah, they don't know that they have the option or the choice or the like, you're not going to change who you are in birth. So like, have your actions and your values and everything come into alignment and pick your team accordingly. And that's not what you know, I was brought up

Starting point is 00:18:00 believing I was brought up, you know know a product of our western white male patriarchy society um so yeah and it for me the content felt very much rebellious and my whole life I was you know a rebellious teenager um you know couldn't wait to like give the middle finger or play soccer because that was like not the thing to do in our hometown or, you know, so I just kept reading and reading and reading. And at our clinic, I would get all the women like with either cramps or women related issues, postpartum healing. And at the very beginning, I was like, wait, I don't know what to do with this. You think just because I'm a woman? Yeah'm the one who knows how to deal with this? Yeah, that's the guy who sent them.

Starting point is 00:18:47 They'll put them on my schedule. So I would tell my patients, hey, I'm learning just as much as you are in this space. Bear with me. We can learn together. And many of them were like, yeah, I've seen you before my pregnancy. I want to see you throughout. So it was a cool journey, especially in the first like three to five years. That's cool. Yeah. I have so many questions to ask based on

Starting point is 00:19:11 these questions. Um, okay. First of all, tell me about the first birth that you were involved in, helped make happen. Yeah. So what was it like? What was the feeling like was it were you like traumatized were you excited was it amazing scary like what I don't think I was ever scared um both births were so there's two and I can't remember exactly which one came before the other okay so I'm gonna go with this one um that I was doing as a pro bono case. And it was in like South Central LA. And this one was having a home birth. And I met her probably midway through her pregnancy. And she was like, I want you to be my doula you your lifestyle everything about it like really resonates with me and I want to get back to my healthy or my lifestyle after birth I was like okay okay um so long story short

Starting point is 00:20:15 she was she was due around Christmas time and in the beginning when I was just trying to get births under my belt I would always attend births on the holidays because nobody else would. So I remember she called me on December 23rd and me being clueless about holidays. And if like previously I'd spent many holidays on the road, like in hotels. So I was like clueless

Starting point is 00:20:41 and I set out in my car in Los Angeles and then sat in two and a half hour traffic. Um, so yeah, so I was on the phone with her. She was breathing. She was doing great. And then when I got there, her partner, this guy opened the door and he looked like he had seen a ghost. He was like, Oh my God, thank God you're here. And I was like like what's i what's going on like based on his face i thought like shit hit the fan yeah and then i get in there and she's rocking the contractions like every birth movie i saw in birth education not in like um the cinema yeah um like hollywood yeah she was just going along flowing with contractions breathing

Starting point is 00:21:26 like definitely working but like doing her thing and then it started to pick up and so she went to the bathroom and most women that have had given birth gone through labor know that sometimes the toilet is the most comfortable space to sit and labor through contractions. It's kind of a similar sort of position and like bearing down kind of, yeah. And you feel, like if you think about it, most people feel safe and unobserved and can relax in the bathroom on the toilet. Like especially if you're a dude listening, like if you think, okay, I'm going to go take a shit.

Starting point is 00:22:03 It feels good. Yeah, yeah. like if you think okay I'm gonna go take a shit it feels yeah so she was in there and this scene I remember like so well she was sitting on the toilet and she just started singing and she was a singer like an aspiring she wanted to be a singer and

Starting point is 00:22:20 she started singing the Fugees and I won't even sing it because I have a terrible voice, but, like, strumming my pen like that and just started singing that. And I was like, wow, that is, well, this is gorgeous, but that is, like, really freaking brilliant too because, like, low tones and, like, long exhales help to pass the contraction or help to like dissolve the contraction yeah ride that wave of the contraction and I was just like wow she's intuitively doing

Starting point is 00:22:55 what her body knows to do and then eventually she moved over to the blow-up tub and gave birth in the blow-up tub and it was so beautiful the husband or the partner i forget what he was but he literally like he was so funny he was like um um like took apart like electronics and put them back together so they had this computer in their room and he took it apart and put it back together to distract himself because he's totally yes yes hey he's doing what his body's telling him like if you think about it it's such like a masculine energy thing to do like okay i need to check boxes and get shit done you know take something apart and put it back together okay yeah did you ever experience like a particularly difficult or scary delivery? You know, there's been a few where, um, yeah, there's one in particular. Okay. This will go down the rabbit hole of like the what's going on in our country um so as I mentioned I used to do like one pro bono case a

Starting point is 00:24:07 month and I'm getting back into that with an organization here in Austin called gals okay um and so I would take on one client based on like whatever midwife called me in LA and yeah sure I can fit into my schedule um there was one client um that I went to meet and this was in also like south central Englewood area I can't remember exactly um but I went to her and her boyfriend they're so young like 17 maybe um they were living at her mom's house. They had gotten pregnant and you know just super naive, no idea what to do. And they had a really great midwife who does a ton of births for marginalized people all over Los Angeles. And it was probably about a day and a half two days into labor and more often than not um you

Starting point is 00:25:09 know if there's no like yellow flags or like medical reasons that come up or that give a glimpse into you know why labor is taking so long it's emotional um and so I think she was just really terrified yeah um but anyways labor started like taking a longer time than it did um so I went with went over to their house stayed there with the midwife for a while um did my chiropractic stuff and then it looked like things were progressing and it was great um Long story short, transferred to the hospital, which is actually really common for, like the most common reason for home birth or birth center transfers is due to exhaustion and or dehydration, like not enough fuel, not enough sleep, not enough liquids, that kind of thing. And mom's just like over it.

Starting point is 00:26:05 Yeah. It's usually not due to a medical emergency. But we went and we're like, yeah, let's get the epidural. Long story short, pushing. So medical professionals, this is actually really common. Like when you get an epidural, it's really hard for you to feel, right? So feel anything. And that's the point of the epidural, it's really hard for you to feel, right? So feel anything. And that's the point of the epidural. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Um, so she ended up pushing so hard, like coach led pushing

Starting point is 00:26:32 is what they call it, or somebody's directing you to push, um, pushing so hard that she basically sprained her entire pelvis. Um, and cause she couldn't feel anything and just wanted the baby out you know um so woman ended up having to be wheeled out of the hospital like in a wheelchair um there was no like physical therapy rehab happening right away um so and it took me a few days to get down there based on my schedule and there's just no support or anything for this woman postpartum. And I think that was one of the saddest experiences for me. Because it seemed kind of preventable maybe? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:27:16 Like this tiny little woman was directed to basically push with 110% of her effort yeah okay and you know that's a constant conversation in the birth world is like do we go the coaching directed pushing or the self you know intuition type of pushing and um you know I think especially for first-time moms there can be a blend like midwives do this thing of like putting their fingers down there and saying hey can you feel my fingers push towards my fingers or breathe the baby down towards my fingers but when it's just like an ambiguous black hole of push the baby out it's like you're shoving a bowling ball through you know the opening of a balloon or something um and i just think that woman was another number in the system and you know they

Starting point is 00:28:11 got the baby out and mom and baby were relatively healthy or i'll say alive but you know that was oh that broke my heart he's so young so for home births yeah they're like doulas or midwives can't administer any kind of pain medication right no okay so it depends um in well all over the u.s i think i it varies state to state on um what type of midwives there are who can practice where etc etc like I think um god is it Mississippi and I could be wrong like they don't have um midwives at all right now or something um which is bananas and Alabama is like a mess right now but um they're certified nurse midwives which are cnm and then they're cpm certified professional midwives and they those people or women or men or whoever certified us whatever they can catch babies obi gynes can also catch babies and so then i'll throw this out there

Starting point is 00:29:21 like the doula is the emotional, physical labor support. Doula can meet client with OB-GYN or meet client with CNM or CPM. So it depends kind of on state by state and what the regulations are. Like in Los Angeles, there's a few birth centers that can administer nitrous, which is laughing gas. See, that's what I want to sign up for. I want to talk to you about all of the, I mean, I may or may not have a child in my life. It's sort of a thing that I'm kind of discussing with my partner right now. But that's the one that kind of appeals to me because I'm like, anything that can kind of take the edge off, but you still in in control of your faculties you know what I mean seems to make a lot of sense yeah give me that laughing gas there's and I think there's

Starting point is 00:30:10 one or two places here in Austin that just got it and so they're trying it out um especially in like the midwifery world but it seems like the risks are pretty pretty low right yeah um and there's also I know just in the underground scene and I won't throw anybody under the bus, but people that, you know, once labor starts or it shows signs of starting like doses of CBD or CBD, THC one-to-one kind of stuff. Um, so it'll be interesting to see what comes out in the next two years about that right because birth is the unknown you know and it's the greatest unknown and um for a woman and like i'll go off on tangents you can totally stop me but i share this like this metaphor of climbing

Starting point is 00:31:00 a mountain and you basically have to climb this mountain and you build your birth team and they help you each step of the way and once you get to the point or the peak of the mountain that's only you that's only mom and mom or whoever this is at the peak of the mountain has to reach through to another dimension to bring life into this world and you know sometimes when i explain this to moms they're like yeah my vagina is a bridge between heaven and heaven my vagina is narnia yeah um and so what whether it's a vaginal birth or cesarean birth at that moment a baby is born and so is a mother and then you got to come back down this mountain, which our society does a shit job of like reintegrating mom and baby into this earth side society we live in. Going back down the mountain is essentially like the Instagram, like how to get your baby body back.

Starting point is 00:31:57 That's the extent of it. And I used to say we push women down the mountain and they tumble head first. But I think there's more awareness coming around and so it might be just like a slow free fall right now I don't know but they're working on it yeah the postpartum awareness is definitely improving like 10 years ago it was like not non-existent like midwives were scared of any type of movement postpartum um doctors would just clear women for sex and um exercise at six weeks and nobody had any guidance you know like there was just not shit that existed we are so like goal oriented in this culture it's just like the baby

Starting point is 00:32:40 is the end goal and then everything after that is just you're on your own yeah good luck out there but that's why you guys are doing what you're doing right with birth fit and it's really like um one of our first classes which was the post birth fit postpartum series this was the first signature series that I designed I taught and you know I couldn't have like put predictions on what was going to happen with it. But it was like by far the coolest experience besides birth that I had been a part of. Like women coming together. And the class was four weeks, twice a week. Women coming together somewhere between five weeks postpartum and like three months postpartum.

Starting point is 00:33:23 And starting with a topic of conversation and everybody discussing and then focusing on our movement objectives for that day so really intentional rehab from you know sedentary from birth to okay let's start moving again and giving you some safe practical tools you can take with you back into your gym or back into whatever fitness or exercise routine you love you know it's a really solid foundation and you know out of that class whoa friendships were born like moms like I just saw a picture the other day of where there's two moms one mom had moved to um Tennessee but they met back up they've both had two kids now you know it's like uh it gives me the chills to think about

Starting point is 00:34:13 the you know what's blossomed out of that well people talk about like sports and military and like brotherhoods that are formed from these like extremely unique and intense experiences and I would imagine motherhood's got to be like that too like you know you especially when it's that fresh you know when you're like a few weeks or months postpartum and you you really just went through some shit and you can you can connect with other people who have been in similar situations and they understand yeah you can emotions and the exhaustion and all the things that are going on in your body. I mean, I can only imagine. Okay, so let's go back to you were like international woman of mystery in LA, traveling all over the place, doing all this crazy stuff.

Starting point is 00:34:54 What brought you back to Austin or back to Texas? And what brought you from doing that kind of work to starting BirthFit? Yeah, so I started the BirthFit blog in 2011. And I started it basically while I was still sort of traveling around. But then I just put my foot down and quit. I think it was I did my last job in 2011. And so then I just started writing and like doing my own thing, hosting the classes. And a woman named Lindsay Mooma, who's from Raleigh, North Carolina, reached out to me and she said, What are you doing? I need to be part of it. I used your mantras or your something during the birth of my son. I was like, geez, okay.

Starting point is 00:35:39 It's working. Yeah. Holy shit. And she was pregnant with her second. Long story short, she was basically the first affiliate. And since then she's opened her own women's wellness space in Raleigh, North Carolina. But also, you know, now we have a directory of over 500 birth fit leaders. Oh, wow. I know. It's wild to think about. But she works for birth fit. Like is she one of the, she's actually one of our, like in birth fit headquarters, if you want to call it. Um, cause I think I saw her name on the website and I remember thinking her last name looks like mama, which is kind of ironic. And that's so wild. Cute. Yeah. And we have the same initials LM. So we can't like kismet. Yeah. So in our professional emails, we're like Matthews or Muma.

Starting point is 00:36:28 Yeah. So then when you guys decided to kind of make this, like take this a step above your sort of the blogging and the individual workshops and stuff, was the main kind of thing to get other people certified in what you were teaching so that you can kind of expand it out across America and have people teaching? Yeah. And I don't think we knew our goals initially. Like in chiropractic school, they don't teach you business. And in pre-med, they don't teach you business. So I learned a lot of my entrepreneur skills growing up. Actually, looking back in hindsight, my mom is like a serial entrepreneur and even my stepdad. And so, you know, at the time I wouldn't, you know, admit it. But it's like, oh, shit, they did teach me something.

Starting point is 00:37:17 There you go. But yeah, in 2013 was about the first time we had affiliates. And then it was five and then 12 and then 54 and then so on. But I think the message was what I wanted to get across initially. And over the past six years, it's been refined to, okay, let's actually teach leaders how to host these classes so that they can host like a safe space and you know proper rehab getting in touch with you know so that women can get in touch with their bodies again postpartum and have a safe pregnancy and

Starting point is 00:38:01 you know a fun pregnancy and empowering pregnancy and birth um so that's kind of what it's evolved to is like teaching the leaders and then um we like it took me a while to put online programs on like on the website because it's stuff you got to feel and anybody that's been to a birth that experience will admit like it was not what I expected or it was like so much more in depth or it wasn't just like learn these exercises and check the boxes you know um it was definitely a an experience that's felt like from the soul out and so that was why it was so hard for me to put online programs up because I wanted people to feel things that I couldn't actually guarantee through an online program. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but yeah, they finally went up, um, and the seminars

Starting point is 00:38:52 finally happened. I think that was 2016. So at this point people can do the programs purely online, sort of on their own. They can attend workshops and seminars and then they could also, is there like a directory where you can find people like in your city and then work with them? Like you would work with a personal trainer. Yeah. So right now we have a birth fit directory that has professional coaches, professionals. Okay. Let me, professionals can be Kairos, PTs, OB-GYNs, midwives, and then coaches, like CrossFit coaches, personal trainers, anybody in that kind of field. Next year, at some point, they'll be yogis. Cool.

Starting point is 00:39:35 Yeah, and we're actually cleaning up the back end to make the directory more user-friendly right now. Okay. So I say if you go search in the directory right now and it's pisses you off, it's okay. Cause it pisses me off too. Yeah. But they could search. Okay. So if I am not pregnant yet, but thinking of becoming pregnant, I want to work with you guys throughout the entire process. How, what's my like first step? Okay. So when people ask me this, they're like, okay, where do I start? I usually say, check out the podcast, like just pick one that resonates with you. And it may be like,

Starting point is 00:40:18 there's ones from way far back with like Dr. Emil Chavarri, um, who's an OB-GYN in LA, but like, gets all into why it's really hard to be an OB-GYN and how their hands are tied with insurance and yada yada, brilliant episode, you can even find the live version on our YouTube channel. Or you could get into like the probably one of the most common episodes is, it was, a roundtable discussion from Summit two years ago. And it was, like, I'm pregnant, now what? So each of the leaders, like, gave their kind of personal story on, like, what they took out from movements for exercise and, like, how their mindset shifted. Okay. And then even like in the last couple weeks, I'm trying to think like we've had Lily Nichols on again,

Starting point is 00:41:09 who's a great name. I've been a reader, yeah. She's great, huh? Yeah. She was at our summit. I love that woman. Yeah, she's great. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:41:15 So do you host the podcast? I'm a host in Embo, aka Embo Slice, Emily Russick. Embo Slice, that's good. Yeah. We keep trying to get her more professional handle, but screw it. Yeah, she's like one of my best friends, has been involved with BirthFit since the beginning, has a one-year-old now, and she's moving to Austin soon.

Starting point is 00:41:41 Everybody's moving to Austin. I know. Yeah. And, yeah, we're opening a space here together. Yeah. So that's probably the first time I've said that publicly, but, um, so right now you, you basically, it's sort of just like a remote line and then you're having events and stuff, but you don't have like a brick and mortar, like a gym that people can come to. Totally. Okay. So in LA, my, my Cairo office was at two birth centers, one on the east side and one on the west side.

Starting point is 00:42:10 And then Embo and I would train and do classes out of Deuce Gym, which, you know, is an amazing space for any of you that have been there. But yeah, it's like, it's time. And that's one of the reasons, you know, in the last year, why I moved to Texas, definitely some personal changes, like I got married and divorced last year. And then, you know, I was already intending to move the business here, and having space here and, you know, having a presence here, because our summit is here every year. And the universe has just said nope it's time to open the brick and mortar space here which makes so much sense why you know shit fell through

Starting point is 00:42:50 in LA like I would look at spaces and it wouldn't be right you know yeah it's funny how these yeah the universe knows so why did you always have the the yearly summit in Austin um central it's like central in the country and my girls that are on the East coast, man, they would not stop complaining about the plane. Yeah. I get it. I mean, it's nice to come to California, but it's also a lot of work. Yeah. Yeah. I get that. And Austin is actually like, you're here for an event. it's an event city yes the venues here the hospitality industry they know how to put on events yeah you know um so it's it's been really like for us it's been really easy to have the summit here the first one was actually in my

Starting point is 00:43:36 backyard but since that yeah okay so I don't want to um you know ask you personal questions the entire podcast. But, I mean, that's like we were saying, that's a pretty epic year to have to get married and divorced. And you did mention earlier that your lifestyle when you were traveling all over the world was not conducive to nurturing relationships and having a personal life. So what was that process like for you last year? Like what was going on? How were you that busy relationship-wise last year? Like what was going on? How, how did, how did you, how are you that busy relationship wise this year deciding to marry and divorce? What happened?

Starting point is 00:44:10 How did you navigate 2018? Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, I have a lot of support in my corner. Um, and I think from like, I grew up and I had some trauma in my childhood and then like teenager, early adulthood. And, you know, definitely at that time I did not have tools to deal with trauma. But I started therapy probably around, excuse me, 2006, 2007. And that was awesome um and my therapist was actually an nlp practitioner on top of being a like psychiatrist or on top of her other accolades and um you know through some of her i guess exercises that she would do with me i would would be like mind blown. And then I would ask her after the session, you know, okay, like, what did you just do to me? Some of it was hypnotherapy,

Starting point is 00:45:09 some of like, hypnotherapy is very intermixed into NLP. What's NLP? Neuro Linguistic Programming. Okay. And so if you think about, like, the easiest description I can give is that it's like, retraining the thought patterns in your brain. Just like we retrain movement patterns. It's like breaking the circuits that have been established and then rewiring them into a more positive or a desired pattern. That's a job. Dude. Like you can tell yourself like I'm fat or ugly or worthless or dumb your entire life. Like breaking those. Wow. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:45:47 And like we're all, oh my God. Okay, so I could talk forever about this. So she changed my life. I went on to study NLP and I became an NLP practitioner. And so a lot of the mindset exercises that I do with my doula clients or that are thrown into some of the birth fit classes have an NLP base. But, you know, a lot of the patterns that we have as adults, you know, especially if we haven't brought awareness around them, were established from a very young age. You know, based on our survival, our desire to feel needed and loved and self

Starting point is 00:46:28 preservation. Yeah, totally. So it was very ego driven. And, you know, I think, once I started gaining awareness around what triggered me and the immediate behavior that would happen, then I started to like like just have space between the like stimulus and the response. And meditation helped. But, you know, that that was, I took responsibility for my actions. And even putting me in like, like an abusive, I had an abusive relationship. I can even see my responsibility in that, you know, because I was fulfilling my victim mindset, my scarcity mindset, the, you know, that shit that I was telling myself before, I was just reaffirming it. Like I put myself in those shitty situations,

Starting point is 00:47:17 but it doesn't excuse, you know, maybe his shitty behavior. Um, so anyways like I gained tools along my life's journey and um you know thank goodness because whenever life throws you like a lesson or a trauma or obstacle whatever you want to call it like there's no good or bad to me anymore it is what it is um you take what you have as tools and I so firmly believe that we wouldn't be in this obstacle unless we could handle it. So, you know, like, Logan, that's my ex, we're still so very close. We went through so much together opening businesses together. And I think, you know, we love each other as good as you know, as fully and capable as we could. And we still certainly believe our love is magical.

Starting point is 00:48:11 But at this time in our lives, our paths just kind of diverted. And I was actually talking to him this week and talking about business stuff and like, what do I do? Are you still intertwined business-wise at all no no no um like he definitely has his thing I have my thing um but you know I think gaining the tools that I gained throughout my life allowed me not only to hold space for women but for other people in my life and the relationships that mean a lot to me, you know, so as both of us went through changes in like the last two years, we were able to be adults about the situation, you know, and hold space for each other, not say or do anything that we would regret, you know, like,

Starting point is 00:48:59 I don't know if many of us like, I grew up with, like, my mom's been divorced and married five times and my stepdad's been married a number of times and you know when you see things growing up like yelling and fighting and that kind of stuff and then you see it in your behavior like my related my abusive relationship I talked about earlier that's normal until it's not normal in your life, you know? And so I was so grateful for those experiences because it made me even more grateful for the love and like the communication, the evolution that Logan and I had together. Yeah. I mean, that sounds like the most grown up thing that I've ever heard. People are like, how the fuck did y'all do that? Well, people talk about divorce being like truly one of the most stressful

Starting point is 00:49:45 difficult situations that an adult human being can go through because there and there's there's so many layers to why that's complicated like there's the external like what will people think and how will people view and like it's a failure and like we just need to try harder and then there's of course like missing a person who's a massive part of your life and all of this, but it sounds like you guys were able to, to, to handle it in a way that's, um, so much more civil and grown up than most people can get away with. So congratulations on that. Do you think, do you think that if you hadn't, um, gone through the like years of therapy and like recognize that that was an important thing for you to do in your life? Do you think you would have handled this the same way? No, I would have been a crazy woman. Um, I for sure would have been a crazy woman. Do you still go to a therapist now? Oh,

Starting point is 00:50:34 yeah. Um, actually I had right now I talked to my therapist on the phone cause he's in California, but I ha I actually have one in California and one in New York and I talked to them at two different times in the month. Good for you. One is more astrology based. Okay. And that's a New York one. Yeah. Yeah. And then, and then the other one is more, um, like spirituality, um, God, like intertwined in like energy, stuff like that. But yeah, I for sure, like if I didn't have these tools, or and would have addressed shit, you know, that came up before, I would have been like a nightmare. And I'll touch on this a little bit, like before, like growing up, I would definitely substance use, I use that word, to numb out pain, numb out feelings. And, you know, when going through this, and when I moved, I definitely, like asked myself, I was like, Lindsay, can you be

Starting point is 00:51:34 sober for 90 days? And I did. And it was like the best thing I did through this transition. And I'm not like, I don't drink a ton. But I was just like, picking looking at the things in my life that don't make me feel like awesome. And alcohol was one of them. Not getting enough sleep was another, you know, so I made sure during this transition, you know, in the last year, to prioritize sleep, prioritize nourishment, massage, chiropractic, energy work, anything that made me feel really good. And I think that's so important when you're going through a transition, because you don't know when emotions are going to come up and especially grief, like, you have about a 10 second warning, excuse me before grief hits you. And then it's like waterworks. And so like there was, um, one

Starting point is 00:52:25 time I was at a coffee shop in LA and I walked in and they're like, Hey Lindsay, how's Logan? Cause everybody knows us there. And I was like, Oh God, like here it comes. It started in the stomach and it rises up and then just waterworks and they're like, everything. Okay. And I was like, ah, can I just get my coffee my coffee well I think one of the things because I think we all I mean I don't know anybody who hasn't had substance abuse issues and by that I mean abusing the way we eat yeah it could be drugs it could be alcohol it could be sex it could be all kinds of things it could be working out everything it's all about the dose right yeah and I think a lot of us use these things to either numb or distract or comfort or whatever.

Starting point is 00:53:08 And I think that having established routines and like self-care, I know some people don't like that word, but it's a very good descriptor of what that is, is taking care of yourself. So having these things that are so routine and just a part of your life helps because when these circumstances come up, you have that base of like knowing what makes you feel good and what helps you take care of yourself. Because yeah, like I'm the same way.

Starting point is 00:53:33 Like I could have like a, my life is super sorted out and I'm super healthy and I'm doing everything that's right. And then like one stressful thing happens. I'm just like shoveling like cupcakes into my mouth. I don't even know where they came from. Yeah. Where'd they come from? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:53:44 But like the more you have this sort of like whatever your healthy routine looks like to you and whatever makes you feel the best and the most like yourself, having that as sorted out as possible really helps when these circumstances do arise, which they will, right? It's part of life though. They will present themselves. And you know, it's, um, I didn't add this into my doula work so heavily until like in the last two to three years but when I started with clients I'll relate this back to doula stuff is um you know I'd ask clients like what brings you pleasure and not just sexual pleasure like somebody going down on you or having sex I mean that's great too but like what in the

Starting point is 00:54:24 little things in life, what brings you pleasure? And we would get to know them on that level, because that's what you want to start to incorporate back in postpartum. Because you feel so foreign in your body postpartum. It's like you landed in a new ship on a new earth. And you're like, how do I navigate this? Is this a stick shift? Or is this automatic? Like, I don't even know. Um, so going back to, okay, like I remember walks would bring me joy. Okay. Maybe let's try some gentle walks. Or I remember dancing to Beyonce in the living room is what brings me joy. Okay. Let's put Beyonce on and let's get after it. Um, but I'll call this stuff. I call it my queen shit. Um, so I asked what, what's your queen shit? Like, let's get after it. But I'll call this stuff, I call it my queen shit.

Starting point is 00:55:07 So I ask them, what's your queen shit? Like, let's go back to that. Nice. So it could be anything, like baths, pedicures, you know, good book. Reading, yeah. Yeah, totally. Cool. Laying on the ground, just taking a five-minute nap, savasana, like any of that.

Starting point is 00:55:20 I like that. Okay, this is kind of, it seems weird to ask this question this late, but do you have a kid? Have you ever? No. No. Do you have any interest in it? Okay. So this has actually been this, I mean, this is like all exposed, fully exposed. Um, like I said before, I wrote off having kids because I was like, Oh, not stepping foot back into the hospital. Um, but then as life progressed, you know, Logan and I definitely talked about kids, but it was never like right in front of us. Um, and so then over the last year, I'll tell you what not to ask people when they're going through a divorce or

Starting point is 00:55:56 separation. It's like, Ooh, you're 36. What about kids? I'm like, Hey hey i don't have to explain myself to you um so so that like there was a fear and i wasn't ever fearful of not being able to have kids until people started putting that in my damn head this year and i was like whoa pump your brakes therapist hello um so let's release this energy um but i've always thought about like a blended family. And I say blended family either like adoption and kids of our own or like stepkids or some sort of thing like that. Those are the kinds, like I've actually had two dreams along those lines where stepkids or adopted kids are in my family. Um, and so I don't know what that looks like and I don't know when that will happen, but you know, I definitely, definitely know I have time. Um, I've worked with a ton of women in their mid forties,

Starting point is 00:56:55 you know, having kids. So you're open to it. Yeah, totally. And it's not to say that like, Oh, it's, it's interesting that you've dedicated your life to this and you're, you're not a mother because there are tons of people who are dedicating themselves to maybe um I don't know whether it's like sports or like industries but they aren't necessarily I don't know involved in in that way um but I get the same thing because I'm in my mid-30s and it used to be like it used to be always oh well you've got time don Don't worry about it. And like every year the passes, people are like reacting less like that. And they're like, okay. Yeah. All right. They're just going to judge you with their eyes. Do you remember how old you are? Like, yeah. I'm like, look, it'll happen when it happens or it won't happen if it doesn't

Starting point is 00:57:37 happen. But, um, yeah. Okay. That's interesting. And then, and I also come from a, I don't know if you, I guess you wouldn't really necessarily call it a blended family, but my parents, like my dad remarried three times. My mom remarried, like there's kids. He had eight kids. Like I'm one of eight. Yeah. We span like three decades. Like it's a whole thing.

Starting point is 00:57:56 There's a lot going on there and they're like half siblings and different moms and different dads. It's all very complicated. Um, and it's, you know, there's good and bad to it. And it's like, there's like a whole story that could be told there but i think that it's yeah it's less about whose parents who were the parents and what are they doing it's like what makes you happy and are you do you love the kids that are there and do they feel loved and that's really what's important so and your family is like whatever you make it you know of course yeah it can be friends non-blood related blood related whatever yeah but yeah um yeah to tackle the the

Starting point is 00:58:32 age thing in pregnancy it's like oh I hate that but um like Elena Smorsett just did a wonderful interview in self magazine really 45 years old with her third kid I didn't know that third pregnancy I'm a big Alanis jagged little pill fan obviously she's Canadian and I'm Canadian so like I'm in love with her she's um there's a video it's a really great video oh I didn't know she was having another kid did she give birth already or she's pregnant she's pregnant right now um but she shares a lot she was actually really vulnerable in sharing um how she dealt with postpartum depression with the first two and then had some probably miscarriages she didn't outright say but just trouble in between

Starting point is 00:59:10 and then got pregnant with her third but you know there was one month where I had three doula clients and they were all in their 40s one was 45 they all got pregnant naturally they all took really good care of themselves and you know if you look at the like the so the united states is the worst when it comes to maternal mortality rate of industrialized countries it's crazy crazy and also black women are dying at a rate of three to four times that of white women and in some places I think it's like New York there's like 12 times but if you go back and look at like some of the studies and the stats and like there's a listening to mother survey a lot of it is can be prevented

Starting point is 00:59:57 and then lifestyle like okay let's just gain some insight into our lifestyle have some awareness around it and talk about nutrition talk about movement and incorporate those behavioral patterns early on so that at least women can know okay something doesn't feel right in my body and you know i i need to be an advocate for myself um so yeah a lot of it has to do with lifestyle and, you know, I think, um, it's just such a sad irony that like your body technically is like primed to do it at a time when your mind really isn't ready. Like if, if only our bodies were like at the peak of, you know, fertility when you're like 42, like wouldn't that be so nice? I'm like, just give me a couple more years to do what I want. Yeah, I know. So do you, you know, fertility when you're like 42, like, wouldn't that be so nice? I'm like, just give me a couple more years to do what I want. Yeah, I know. So do you, do you,

Starting point is 01:00:49 is dealing with postpartum depression, um, an element of what you guys recognize and work with within birth fit? Totally. And it's like, that was one of the reasons why we wrote the birth fit postpartum series initially um and each like there's i guess screeners as you would call it like things for people to look out for and know like okay if this woman skipped class like all week let's check in on her you know um but not having like that connection that human connection in the immediate postpartum period is huge. Not having rest and nourishment like that can lead to anxiety and stress is the number one thing that will dry up breast milk. And, you know, when a woman's not supported and cared for, then she cannot care for her baby or babies if there's multiples so it's like that two weeks you know minimum we say don't do anything lie in get to know your new immediate family whether it's you and baby or you baby and

Starting point is 01:01:54 partner let people make you food you don't even have to see them let them drop it off at your house whatever but like that is y'all's time and you'll never get that back allow yourself to be cared for yeah totally what are some some things that people can look out for to understand and recognize if they're experiencing postpartum depression because as you've said and especially maybe for like first time mothers who don't know what the hell they're supposed to be feeling afterwards and you know it's normal to feel like your body is alien to feel like you don't know what the hell is going on, to be exhausted, to be tired, to feel uncomfortable, all of these things. And those are normal. And those are within sort of almost a healthy experience, right? Postpartum. So how do you know the difference between like,

Starting point is 01:02:39 I just am like going crazy. I don't know what's happening because I just had a baby versus like some real kind of issues that you want to have addressed. So I would say the number one, like warning sign is lack of sleep. And people are like, Oh yeah, but I'm not going to get sleep. Like I tell mom sleep when baby sleeps and it may be like 90 minutes. It may be three hours. It may be like, okay, maybe I got six hours here. And I was, I pumped. So dad was able to feed baby or something, you know. But sleep when baby sleeps. And this is why I'm such a big advocate of like co-sleeping or having the baby right next to the bed.

Starting point is 01:03:18 It's because you can just roll over and feed baby. And y'all can all fall back asleep together. So lack of restful sleep is like the number one thing. And when I go to a client's house and maybe they're like two weeks postpartum and they're like, I am so exhausted. I haven't had any sleep. And there's like bags under their eyes. I'm like, okay, what's up? How can we get support? You know, that's not a normal thing for me. Because really you should be so tired that you can kind of fall asleep. Even if you're, you're, like you said, you're getting these kind of like 90 minute pieces here and there.

Starting point is 01:03:52 You're still, you should, you should, if you're sort of a healthy, tired, you can fall asleep because you're just ready to go. Okay. Totally. And like, usually what starts to happen is there's like not restful sleep. Then there's insomnia, then there's anxiety, and now there's this huge overwhelm of, oh my God, I've got to do all of this. I've got to just do everything. And it turns into almost suffering rather than working or I can tackle this obstacle. Suffering rather than a challenge. Yes, absolutely. I can tackle this this obstacle suffering rather than like a challenge yes absolutely um and like I would say the anxiety and the overwhelm it can lead to a number of different things for different

Starting point is 01:04:33 people and like you hear I'm sure like people have heard like harmful thoughts for baby like for sure that's a number like call somebody um but also like if you are avoiding people or you haven't had like a grown-up conversation like some people will have lack of sleep insomnia and then oh i'm not presentable or i don't want to see anybody today because i don't feel good or you know and so then it comes into this isolation thing and no, like, yeah, that's not good. Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of these symptoms get brushed under the rug as, Oh, it's just baby blues or whatever. But I would say, you know, if you have one or two days of, you know, not sleeping, not adequate, restful sleep, like take action, do something about it. Um, and what are those

Starting point is 01:05:26 actions that people should call? Like, okay. So I was just going to get into this. Um, one of the things we set up in our doula or pre birth at prenatal classes is a postpartum plan. And in this plan, it says, if I'm crying, please call. And there's a blink for moms to fill out and this person needs to be like a safe zone somebody that's non-judgmental will hold space for you not tell you to fix things or how to fix things but just listens to you and then can say something like hey if you want some advice i'm here or if you need some help with chores i'm'm here, but it's nonjudgmental. So that's a name and a phone number. If I'm not sleeping, please call and it could be the same person or a different person. And then I think there was one more, but basically it's those

Starting point is 01:06:18 two things are the first, like if I'm crying and like just crying and crying and crying, call so-and-so. If I'm not sleeping, call so-and-so. So it starts at that level of a nonjudgmental friend. You know, somebody that's not in this space that can get on the phone with you. Like they know you. And that postpartum plan is also for the partner. Like let's say partner is like, holy fuck, she's been crying for all night, wakes up the next morning and is like, I don't even know what to do. Use that contact.

Starting point is 01:06:54 Call that person, that nonjudgmental space. And then if that doesn't get resolved or stuff doesn't get sorted, then have mom go into a therapist. Have mom contact her doula or her midwife or a re-gain and say like, Hey, I need support. Like, do you have any referrals? And that's, that would be the next step for me. And having that stuff already sort of preset, it's like, it doesn't allow it to get to this next level because it doesn't necessarily have to be sort of a big clinical situation. You can catch these things before they kind of steamroll out of control. I like that you mentioned too, that this is like a resource for

Starting point is 01:07:32 the partner, because I think, and I was just reading something recently about the problem that we sometimes have, and women are complicit with this too, where we, first of all, take on too much responsibility as mothers but then we also it's almost like a subconscious perhaps but like a patronizing or condescending sort of way that we treat our partners where we're like you can't understand what this is like so don't bother trying and also you aren't capable of helping me the way I need so like just don't bother I'll just do it myself which is not helpful to anybody Like, of course, the mother is having a different experience than the father is. That's biological. There's no way around that. I wish it was different. If my partner could have the baby, we'd have five already.

Starting point is 01:08:14 But, but that doesn't mean that they can't support and help and be a huge part of the process, right? So, so how do you guys at BirthFit incorporate partners? Yeah. So a lot of it, like in our BirthFit prenatal series, that's a class and it's a birth education class. And it's designed to be done with the birth partner. So in there, we get into a lot of exercises. But I would say like if there's, if you want to share this part with your partner or whatever, like being able to put yourself in the other person's shoes and see things through their lens is like such a huge skill, even as an adult,

Starting point is 01:08:52 you know, like it is like, we would have so many less problems in this country if people could do that. Yeah. And so what I do is, you know, I have different exercises where I have people like think of their own scenarios and then they share and then you know I ask could you see that happening or could you feel that or whatever but it's like you know I do this exercise in our seminars also where it's like I want you to draw a map of this hotel in the surrounding areas and I'll draw a map of the hotels in the surrounding areas or whatsoever in this area and then we'll share our map and compare they're the two maps are going to look completely different so it's just like each of

Starting point is 01:09:30 our lens on the world is completely different um so what i share in the prenatal series is like hey moms have this entire time 40 weeks ideally to bond baby. Then that immediate postpartum, like that first 30 days, that is like prime connection for partner and baby. You know, if baby's not feeding on mom, have partner hang out, bond with baby, hold baby, carry baby, you know, in the house, wherever. Like if y'all are just chilling chilling like pass baby over to dad or partner whoever's there yeah because that's like that it's so big for bonding right there and it's

Starting point is 01:10:11 like an opportunity for dad or partner to connect with baby um and then so that's like immediate postpartum and then eventually partner will have to go back to work. Dad, partner, whoever. Like nine times out of ten, that's what the deal is in America. And it's sometimes as early as two weeks, which is crazy. Freaking bananas. Yeah. And so then I put them in each other's shoes and I'm like, partner, dad, whoever, they're at work. They're pretty bummed to like leave first thing in the morning because they see this cute, snuggly baby in the bed with mom or whoever's there.

Starting point is 01:10:50 Other partner, I don't know. And then they go to work. They're working their booty off to like bring home money to financially provide for the family. And they think they're doing a really awesome job. You know, they think they're checking checking the boxes they're doing all and then they come home and maybe mom's like oh my god thank god you're home take baby for a second while i you know have my downtime well partner hasn't had his downtime he's literally come from work right into a different kind of work you know or maybe mom is like super stressed so now he's got to put out a fire at the house you know there's a lot of things that can happen so one of the things I have people do is like remember our queen shit or our king shit go back to that and if you can incorporate one of those things in that transition time before work ends or before you get home or like something just for you, something just for

Starting point is 01:11:49 mom, just for partner, just for whoever to put you in a better space. And then maybe you can make the handoff or you can come together in a little bit more pleasant environment. Because yeah, there's so many different lenses and there's so many different chapters that happen within that first three months of postpartum. And then that first year. It's interesting because, I mean, it really just sounds a lot like the kind of communication you have to have with a partner, regardless of whether it's a baby in the situation. It's just, it's a lot higher stakes when you've got raging hormones, no sleep, tons of stress, a crying baby. You're trying to learn how to take care of this living thing. And then you're also trying to figure out, well, how do we now live as this sort of grown family?

Starting point is 01:12:33 And how do we still retain the things that make us happy? How do we be healthy and all of these things? So, but I mean, I guess, again, it all kind of comes down to communication and just respecting the other person. It totally comes down to, yeah, communication, respect, and, like, being nice. Being so nice. That's underrated. Yeah. And, you know, one thing I'll tell people is, like, the couples that survive, like, the parenthood transition are the ones that have figured out their own language for communication.

Starting point is 01:13:02 And I'll give you an example. Like, sex is one thing that goes in and out, in and out, and out for a while, and then back. Literally and figuratively, yes. Yeah. And so getting to that place to have sex again, like postpartum, is like, A, partner's probably scared to death. Like let's say if it's a guy, to put anything near mom's vagina or mom's area. And she may not have even looked down there yet.

Starting point is 01:13:32 So what I have women start to do is touch themselves, play with themselves, look with a mirror, and then invite partner to look, touch, all that kind of stuff. But, you know, as things progress, let's say we're like 12 weeks postpartum or we're like 10 weeks. Then some couples, this one couple started this and now I share it with everybody, but they had a rating system. So they would look at each other and they would be like on a scale of 1 to 10, like how hot you right now like how horny are you and the dad would be like I'm a seven I'll be like well I'm like a four so not right now no you're like this average is not good enough yeah so then is it like if both were over a five they're like let's get it on you know amazing so they would have this number system for the whole first year postpartum. But it was like really beneficial for them to just like, okay, let's have sex in the kitchen right now where both babies are sleeping. It's a common language, a common ground.

Starting point is 01:14:34 Totally. Okay, I like that. And I think that can also be very useful for people without kids. Without kids, totally. Yeah, you're just like, all right, where are you out of 10 right now? Okay, I like that. All right, so we – Keep blogging.

Starting point is 01:14:43 All right. So we keep blogging. No. All right. So I can't keep you too much longer. And we have like, haven't really talked about like the physical or fitness or work outside of it at all, which is fine because we've been talking about other things that are valuable, but can you kind of just get into a little bit about if someone is going to work with a birth fit coach, um, what kind of, what what's the physical side like what kind of exercises are you going to be working on what kind of movement practices are you going to be doing how does that work yeah so i would definitely say if you're anywhere near birth fit leader coach whatever get and work with them because just like with anything the more hands-on the like i need a coach in everything, especially if you're not the expert.

Starting point is 01:15:27 Like I love my financial coach. That's a whole different conversation. But hands-on, like hands-on, hands-on. And one of the things we do initially is start to normalize the breathing pattern. So for many of us, you know, we live in this fast paced world and we breathe with our accessory muscles or our chest up here and no breath has made it to the, you know, the full range of motion that the diaphragm has to offer. And the diaphragm and the pelvic floor move parallel. And basically if that's right in front of our spine too like our spine is our like stability

Starting point is 01:16:06 or our rod that holds us up and so like one of the things we do is start to look at the breath and then spinal position in all movements um and so the sooner we can do this in pregnancy the more sustainable movements are throughout pregnancy and they have the tools to come back postpartum to like have a base to start with postpartum once we have a you know decent breathing pattern like diaphragm breathing pattern belly then chest then we'll start to like incorporate that into let's say movements like back squats or pressing or bench press or you know anything in the strength and conditioning world um and so a lot of it goes back to form uh range of motion um you know being able to we like to say like birth doesn't happen in one plane of motion so we want to move in all planes of motion, we want to train

Starting point is 01:17:06 all energy systems. The one thing we do kind of avoid is like sit ups, obviously. And that's extreme flexion of the spine. And it's because there's a huge belly that's going to be out there soon. And, you know, as the belly grows there's gonna be obviously an increase demand increase you know load increase just stress on this entire axial system axial skeleton and you know by the end of pregnancy most all women have an ab separation or a diastasis rectus abdominis. And that's pretty common. That scares me. I don't like that. It goes back though. It can go back. Yeah. And it's our body's natural way of just accommodating for baby. We also have, you know, a unique lumbar spine as

Starting point is 01:18:00 women to bear the load of what's happening in front um most women also have you know wider hips um wider hip angle and so we're like innately designed to carry load but um all this change is so exaggerated during the motherhood transition like if you think about it um like I think I read somewhere like it takes almost two years to like change fascia like um god was this I was talking to this guy yesterday and it was he had a graph for an ACL um I think it was a hamstring graph and basically it doesn't, it takes almost two years for that to fully turn into a ligament. Um, like from a tendinous graph that they put insert. So that's fricking two years and all these changes are happening in 40 weeks of pregnancy yeah that's crazy it takes um like an ankle sprain for example like three at least three months to fully heal if you're doing it correctly um and that's like a third

Starting point is 01:19:15 of pregnancy so as pregnancy progresses like all these changes are happening at rapid speed so the best thing like you can do for your body is keep balance, keep range of motion, keep moving in all ranges of motion. And a basic strictly strength kind of foundation. Yeah, so I said we avoid extreme flexion like sit-ups, toes to bar, knee raises. Like this is hilarious. One of the most common subs I'll see for toes to bar in like the CrossFit bar, knee raises. Like this is hilarious. One of the most common subs I'll see for toes to bar in like the CrossFit world is knee raises. But I'm like, Hey, you can still see the coning of the abdomen happening. Like get off the bar. Yeah. What about a certain,

Starting point is 01:19:55 what about a baseline of, and this is probably not, um, a big deal for, I would imagine a lot of our listeners who are super fit people generally, but like a basis of cardiovascular conditioning. And I guess that would go hand in hand with the breathing too. But I mean, it's a, it's an endurance event. It's definitely an endurance event. And one of the things we've touched on in our seminars is like we're training endurance stamina, like just like in like the lifting world. Okay. Let's say lifting, like it's like short bursts of energy you need that to handle the pushing stage you need the long oxidative aerobic capacity if you're like who knows what how long yeah it could be three days and you like you need to have that endurance that stamina to last for that long um so endurance, just as important as strength and range of motion and balance. Those

Starting point is 01:20:45 are the five things like we include in our training. Can a doula assist in a hospital? Yeah, totally. And can a midwife? It depends. So some midwives, depends on the state, depends on the hospital. Some places will give midwives privileges as they say it. Yeah. What percentage of your clients are giving birth in a hospital versus like either a birthing center or at home yeah so i would say okay this is a hard majority of my clients as doulas do out of hospital births but i would say everybody that's giving birth in a hospital needs to have a doula. Um, and then on the birth fit whole population, I would say it's about 50, 50 like hospital and, um, birth or home or birth

Starting point is 01:21:34 center or home birth. Interesting. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, totally. Um, and so you have your yearly like summit that happens at Austin. Do you have any other events or do you guys do talks anywhere else? Like, is there any way other way that people who aren't in Austin can come and like, see you guys give us high fives? Yeah. Um, yeah. So we have a few more seminars this year. Okay. And so there are coach and professional seminars. Um, I think there's a denver seminar in august and uh we'll put a link to your website yeah i could be totally butchering this but i know there's a denver seminar in august for coach and a coach seminar in venice in october because i'll be at venice in october okay um and then there's like two or three more for professionals as well um So they could find those under education and then seminars on our website.

Starting point is 01:22:27 And then throughout the year, we'll do pop-ups. Like the last pop-up I did was in Brooklyn at CrossFit South Brooklyn. Cool. And then, yeah, and then before that, I was in West Palm Beach. We had a super chill discussion with actually a ton of doulas, a pelvic floor PT, some midwives. That was a really progressive. And it was just like a coffee discussion.

Starting point is 01:22:50 That's cool. It was really rad. Yeah. So we'll do, you know, anywhere from four to six pop-ups a year. Okay. Yeah. So people can go to your website. They can check you out on Instagram.

Starting point is 01:23:02 You have the blog you can get to from your, sorry, not the blog, the podcast you can get to from your website, right? If they want to learn more and people can come to you and look for resources, but also get, um, programs and coaching if they aren't pregnant or if they've had a baby and it's been a while, like there's no kind of limitation to who can come and learn from you guys. Right. Totally. We, um, we're actually coming out with this program called training cycle and it's probably in my inbox that I need to like do a few more edits. Um, like the hangups on me, I'm sure. Um, but it's three months of strength and conditioning in sync with your cycle. So that is ideal for anybody. I like that idea.

Starting point is 01:23:47 Out of the one-year postpartum window or even like six months postpartum or anybody trying to get pregnant or anybody that just wants to train in conjunction with their cycle. Makes a lot of sense. Three months and then you take the tools and you apply it to wherever you're at training. There's also on our website a Before the Bump program. And so this is only six weeks long, and it has training. But a lot of it is, like, mind-body nourishment.

Starting point is 01:24:17 And so anybody that is, like, trying to conceive, I tell them start there before any IVF routes or anything like that just like get a solid baseline um yeah and then we'll have a brick and mortar here in Austin so when's that opening I would like to say January but let's just say the next year okay yeah um but I'm pretty stoked about that because we'll have all these classes there and more yeah that's a big deal that'll be like the mecca for people to be able to tune out since everyone loves coming to austin to hang out anyway i might as well come get some barbecue like make a trip out of it all right well lindsey thank you so much we've we've talked for a little bit i feel like we could keep going but i know you have work to do you gotta go do your real job but but thank you so much for taking the time and maybe we'll have to do a part two and you can tell me all the secrets, um, the PT secrets of like famous

Starting point is 01:25:09 athletes that you work with. I'm sure, I'm sure you're allowed to tell me all of those details. Um, but this is really helpful. And I think what you're doing is super cool. There's obviously so much more to it than just what exercises you can do to have a healthy pregnancy. And you've only just sort of scratched the surface here, but what you're doing is really cool. So I appreciate your help. Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Starting point is 01:25:31 All right. Part two coming up. All right, everybody. Thank you for listening. Thanks, Lindsay, for coming and hanging out with me. Thank you again to my friends at Beekeepers Naturals for providing their delicious, healthy products that keep me alive when I travel

Starting point is 01:25:44 because I need all the help I can get. And if you want to get in on any of that action, naturals for providing their delicious, healthy products that keep me alive when I travel, because I need all the help I can get. And if you want to get in on any of that action, head to beekeepers, naturals.com forward slash muscle Maven, try out some of my favorite products. I have them listed there and use the discount code muscle Maven for 15% off. And next week, I am speaking with Lynn Lee. She is the badass founder of Society9, which creates ladies fight apparel and gloves for women because why the hell am I still trying to buy like extra small men's boxing gloves? It's dumb.

Starting point is 01:26:15 Some of us are mini with little mini hands and we still want to beat people up and we should be properly geared out for that. So anyway, she's doing something super cool and innovative and helpful in the fitness world. And I'm pumped to chat with her. So join me next week. And that's that. Have an awesome day guys.

Barbell Shrugged - Sleep, Sex, Squats, and Positive Thoughts: Talking With The Founder of BIRTHFIT — Muscle Maven Radio Episode #22

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