Barbell Shrugged - Sorinex: Legendary Strength Training w/ Bert Sorin, Anders Varner, Doug Larson, and Coach Travis Mash Barbell Shrugged #592

Episode Date: July 7, 2021

Bert and his wonderful wife Lesley are the proud parents of three children.  Bert and his family, a family rooted in strength, have been entrenched in the human performance world for as far back as he can remember. Growing up with a barbell in his hand has been pivotal in charting the course of his life and leading him to become a 4-time Division 1 All-American Track and Field (Hammer and 35 lb. Weight Throw), Southeastern Conference Champion, former record holder in Weight Throw, and an Olympic trials athlete. Bert is currently the President and Co-Owner of Sorinex Exercise Equipment, a very successful family run business founded by his father, another big name in the iron game, Richard Sorin.  Together they are the inventors of hardware and applications to make people more effective, efficient, and safe on the sports field and the battle field.  Although Sorin never served in the arms forces, his gear is changing the game to provide readiness and rebuilding to the veterans prior to, during and after their deployments to far off, hostile lands. Bert’s network of veterans, scientists, coaches and therapists allows for a combination of expertise and support, and has been changing lives on both sides of the table. Bert pushes each day to find the best in people, and to assist in their exploration of their potential and maximize their value to the cause.    In this Episode of Barbell Shrugged:   Finding strength training for Track and Field Growing up in a barbell family Staying in your lane and serving your people Innovation and design at Sorinex Summer Strong and creating cultures of strength   Bert Sorin on Instagram   Anders Varner on Instagram   Doug Larson on Instagram   Coach Travis Mash on Instagram

Strugged family, this week on Barbell Strugged, we are hanging out with Bert Sorin, the president of Sorinex. About two months ago, three months ago, we got to go down to South Carolina to Sorinex HQ, which is an absolutely savage gym, beautiful production area. Man, if you've never been to Summer Strong, I highly recommend it. I actually say that knowing that it is about two hours away from me. I have not gone, and every time it's because of some family obligation. It feels like the biggest case of FOMO that exists. But this week, we're talking about Bert Soren's early days as a track and field athlete, how weightlifting

was a massive piece of his growing up childhood, the early days of Sorenex with Pops, how he got the company started, and then what the life of Sorenex looks like once Bert has taken over and the future of Sorenex. But before we get into the show, I got to tell you about our friends over at Organifi. Most of us could use more energy in our day, but caffeine can only do so much. At some point, we need to look at the root causes of our fatigue. It turns out two main factors are low energy and chronic stress and a lack of nutrition. Organifi creates delicious superfood blends that address both of these problems. They use adaptogenic herbs and mushrooms to help balance cortisol levels associated with the stress,

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For an exclusive offer to Barbell Shrugged listeners, go to magbreakthrough.com forward slash shrugged and use the code SHRUG10 during checkout to save 10%. magbreakthrough.com forward slash shrugged. M-A-G-B-R-E-A-K-T-H-R-O-U-G-H.com forward slash shrugged. And make sure you use the code shrugged10 at checkout. Friends, let's get into the show. Welcome to Barbell Shrugged. I'm Anders Varner, Doug Larson, Coach Travis Mash, and Bert Soren.

We're in one of the most beautiful gyms ever. I haven't walked in a gym in so long. We haven't been on the road in so long. I feel like we just walked into the Mecca, and if there was a Soren X bed over there, I'd be the new roommate. There's one right there, actually. Oh, there it is. I don't see one there. Oh, there you go. Oh, roommate. There's one right there, actually. Oh, there it is. I don't see one there.

So there you go. Oh, yeah. He's like, no, I'm joking. Yeah, totally, totally true. Yeah, take a nap. One thing, as soon as the word Sorenx pops in my brain, I immediately think about like the culture that you guys have created here and how long this company has been here. I'd love to hear just at the beginning, kind of talking about the early days and then you growing up as like in the world of strength and then how we've or how you've

kind of progressed this into the next era of sorenix but where did uh where did this whole thing start with you yeah well i mean you can't really say where start with me without starting with my dad yeah soren so he started sorenix in 1980 but that wasn't when he got into lifting and things like that. So kind of way, way back, the way back machine, kind of the Tarantino, this thing. So you go back to he was born 1950. So it was in the late 50s, early 60s. So he was a kid, wasn't very good at reading, just didn't have the knack for it.

That's what we were talking about last night yeah yeah so his dad um would buy him field and stream type magazines outdoors magazines hunting fishing stuff like that because that's what he was interested in but he also would buy him strength and health magazines and they're kind of funny again from the muse standpoint the reason why he liked both of those because the movies that were on tv back then were african queen and uh hercules oh yeah so he would see hercules and go big and strong right sure yeah totally and then like hey this is going out you know outdoorsy adventurey type stuff so this little impressionable kid was going these things look super cool super cool his dad would buy him the magazines because that would make him read and then so if you look at it from like an inception standpoint brilliant you get a little kid that all he reads about is like kind of cool

masculine like adventure-y stuff it was like before the internet before there was like a strength conditioning blog sure he was doing it but through magazines but he was just like reading yeah and his mom would go why are you buying all these magazines he goes well he's reading ain't he yeah and so what he likes he's like right so't he? Yeah. What he likes. She's like. Right. And so he would just do that and do that and do that. And so he got into, he wanted to, because he wanted to throw a javelin, right? He thought that was kind of cool.

It's like a spear or whatever. So he was going to do that. Actually, he was lifting weights at the time. So before that, he was lifting weights because he thought it was really cool and followed the York barbell guys, the Grimmicks and the Tommy Konos and the Shemanskys, like all those, the OGs. Those are the dudes he followed to the extent where like when he was 11 years old, his mom, which is crazy to think about, 1961, 62. Bob Hoffman era. Bob Hoffman, right? Totally. 1962. Bob Hoffman era. Bob Hoffman, right? Yeah, totally. Put him on a train and let him go to York, Pennsylvania, at 11 years old and check into

his own hotel room and go to the York Senior Nationals and watch Ben Narski hit the world record, took a picture with him, saw Grimmick, Bette Hoffman, all those guys. America was like the best then. Right. There were the OGs, right? Yeah. And then the second day, they would have the York picnic, which was a cookout, and that's when kind of bodybuilding was first cracking off.

So they would have the Tommy Konos and all these gimmicks, these guys that just had lifted. They would do exhibition powerlifting stuff. Because a lot of the bodybuilding stuff was the secondary sport to the powerlifting and the Olympic weightlifting. Well, it was Olympic weightlifting. Powerlifting wasn't even really a thing then. It was called odd lifts.

Odd lifts. So the guys were all snatching and squatting. They were squatting to make their snatch and clean and jerk better. So then they would have, after the nationals, guys were all peaked for the nationals, and then they would go, hey, look, I could squat 600 pounds. It still happens. Like my guys will always compete compete and then they'll go do their one rep max squat sure and then that sunday they would literally get on stage and freaking start flexing out and you're going okay these guys aren't bodybuilders they're literally weightlifters

that just happen to be jacked yeah it's so funny because when i think of sorenix and we were talking about on the car ride down here, I just think of strength. Cool. We don't have to partition it out. We do this and we do that. It's like, let's just be strong. Just be strong. That's the founding culture that it was originally established.

Modern day York, I think. Yeah. So he saw that as a kid and he said the coolest part was he was an 11 year old kid hanging out with all these people and they were open and they had this big picnic and so if you look at it you know 50 years later that's really kind of where summer strong is we work we train we do all this stuff hard and then we all go hang out together yeah because you know i i've kind of taken the the set which is struggle eat and talk those are the three best ways especially done in that secession yeah to really bond people together and you look at it from like the caveman days what did they go do

they went hey we're going to go together we're going to kill that woolly mammoth with a with a spear and it's going to be a lot of struggle it's been crazy yeah we're going to sit around mother trucker yeah we're going to sit around the fire yeah and then we're going to talk and we're going to regale each other with these stories and relive the hunt and all this like man since the dawn of time that's what people did what did we do when to talk and we're going to regale each other with these stories and relive the hunt. And all of a sudden, like, man, it's just the dawn of time. That's what people did. What did we do when we were lifting? We went and trained really hard.

Let's go eat. And drink beer. Saturday morning. The best. And then let's just go talk about whatever dumb crap we talk about. Whatever training we did. Go to your favorite restaurant with the biggest cheeseburger. Sure.

Totally. Have a beer. If you're at Westside, you go to Bob Evans every day. Yeah, I go to Bob Evans. Yeah, with Louie and he buys. It's awesome. Yeah. Totally. Totally. So. Yeah, with Louie, and he buys. He's awesome. Yeah. Totally.

So that's kind of how that started with Pops. And then he got pretty good at lifting. And so he and his buddies, they were weightlifting all the time. And Pops actually built his own platforms. He lived near a railroad, went through his backyard. And so he, you know, liberated a few of the railroad ties and would slide them down the railroad tracks. And then he would flip them over like a caber over his back fence. And he built his first

weightlifting platform. Was most of this just because there was no Sorenix around to buy equipment and he just needed to engineer his own things to get stronger? Yes. Yes. And there was a place called Jackson Barbell or Jackson. Yeah, I guess Jackson Barbell. Andy Jackson. He was a very, very, his stuff is very collectible now. But he lived like 20 miles from Pops, which is really super collectible. It was like. I remember Andy Jackson. Yeah.

So you had York, which was like the big hitters. But then you had Andy Jackson. Everything was just a little nicer. And so when dad was, when he was a kid, so if he got good grades or whatever, his dad was a bartender, would be off on Sundays. He would take him to Jackson Barbell to the guy's house. He had a foundry at his house. And if he got good grades, he'd be able to buy a pair of two-and-a-half-pound plates.

And he was always going home. And so he built this little gym out in his basement in his backyard. His basement was for power lifts because he couldn't go overhead yeah and then outside he had a platform he would train over anything that's brilliant yeah so that was what he did like and he was the only child his parents worked all the time so he wasn't really allowed out of the yard so it was like this is your world and so pop's like well i'm gonna make my world awesome yeah so i'm gonna build the stuff out and i'm gonna read a bunch of magazines and i'm gonna go out and do the stuff that's awesome and uh then later on they

had the cedar street boys so they had this little this gym that they put in their buddy's basement they would pay a quarter every you know every month to work out there and they would use that money to buy the family a christmas present at the end of the year and all like all this stuff then he lifted at the um and it's all kind of ties into the story for the you know so it's kind of strange there's a lot of stuff so then he was at the um the elizabeth new jersey ymca which was a crazy gym if you think about it sounds like a ymca but ymca's were different back then they were different back then so you you had a couple other lifters you had a high schooler richard soren you had dave draper yesper yes right before saying right before he went to

because pops didn't even know it until I talked to Dave one day and he goes yeah I left to the YMCA I go you go really he goes you I left there like at 66 to go to California and I remember pops always saying there was a big blonde uh big blonde bodybuilder didn't know that was him he goes yeah he was just big Dave I'm like that was Dave Draper. He goes, no shit. Yes. Exactly. There was probably so few strong people around that if you went to a strong person gym, everyone had been there and trained so long. Because now there's hundreds of thousands of strong people. The YMCA back then would put on the Powers for Nationals.

They were strength back then would put on the powers of nationals the way they were strength back then so if you like really wanted to do it you had to go to that specific gym that spot where there was a culture of being strong yeah and you had anthony datillo who you've probably read about you know of course datillo was pops's training partner they were the same age here in new jersey what gym in new jersey elizabeth ymca right outside of newark new Oh, it used to be like even in North Carolina, you had Jack King. Yep. Yeah. Steve Jack was training there.

Steve Jack, my man. God rest his soul. Rest in peace. Yeah, they had it. It was at a YMCA, but it was gangster. It was like. Super badass. They had cellar dwellers.

You remember that? Yeah. There was a show that they were making about these gyms that were hardcore. With Brookfield and Jack. Yeah. Yeah. So I trained with all those dudes. Jack King was one of my first weightlifting coaches.

Steve Jack was just an awesome guy that hung out. So you're born into a world of strength. What is growing up in that? It's a strange world because you've got to remember, so you fast forward, I'm born in 76, and all the other kids are doing all the other kid crap. Yeah. And then my mom and dad got divorced, so I would go over to Pops' house, and I have pictures at eight years old, like deadlifting double body weight on a Lico plates.

And one other eight-year-old in the early 80s knew that a Lico was made of homesteads. You had the only barbell that was capable of making it across the, on a bar somewhere. There was like one. Or like Pops would, I remember like asking him to draw pictures, and he would draw pictures of Kaz Meyer and Nikita Koloff when I was a kid because he thought they were super cool because they were jacked. He was friends with Kaz. So did I.

Yeah, and so I remember like, this is awesome. So like my childhood was significantly different in some ways. i'm sure my boys are gonna say so my daughter has the same weird existence yes it's weird because weird people end up doing some pretty amazing crap later right right and so it was just always the physical culture was around so we had a home gym at his house and i you know he would he was training hard at the time and so i would just be in there and watch the interaction between he and the other lifters and you know seeing people just do crazy stuff like and the point of it was there was no cameras there was no internet then it was we're going to do this because we're going to do stuff that we view as valuable and i remember seeing dad even to this day it's crazy 1985 he weighed 235 probably did a thigh a lockout from here 1331 no straps still it's still the world record yeah yeah and you

look at and you're like i go why did you do that he goes i just wanted to see what i could do that i said did you train for it he goes no because i. He goes, I just went to see. I'm thinking, it's so far above any guy that you were training. Why the heck did that even seem like a good idea? Because he could. That was actually my first impression. My first impression of your dad, like growing up, going to NSC and whatnot, my strength coach would always go over there and talk to your dad and talk to you. Oh, yeah.

I remember him being over there. I met you like 15 years ago, maybe. Yeah, exactly. Briefly. And that was my first impression of your dad was like grip strength was like the thing. Sure. That he was really, really good at. I remember trying to like lift the inch dumbbell and not moving it basically at all,

kind of just rolling it a little bit. But was he always just like that? He always just had super strong hands naturally and then he developed it? Yeah, it's kind of crazy. We found a picture of him. He was either 12 or 13 because he was wearing little like slippers that you wear, like the 1960s little like like, bedroom slippers things. And he has a pair of 35s pinched in one hand, smooth sides out,

and 25s in the other hand. Wow. He's how old? 12 or 13. Oh, yeah, that's freak. He's a freak. Yeah, totally. Does he have big hands?

Same size as mine. They're big, but not giant. Yeah. But, you know, then he would just tell me all these crazy things. He's like, well, we couldn't clean a jerk in the basement, so I would clean from my knees and jerk. So, you know, or he was telling me a story. I think it was his 14th birthday.

I think it was 14 or 15. I can't remember. But he said the night before he turned whatever which one that was, he had 500 loaded on the bar. And he said he sat downstairs and was crying his eyes out because he couldn't deadlift the 500. And finally, before he went to bed, he finally made it. Oh, that just gave me chills.

And then you're just like, oh, my gosh, this has been. I think that that's such a cool thing because, like, in today's age, you always have to have a camera on you or it doesn't. Like, nobody. Only child in his basement. Yeah. Just like. There's no way somebody doesn't like nobody only child in his basement just like there's no way somebody would just sit there and lift in their basement in a in a dungeon people ask for my videos all the time i just kicked i was not the point of it yeah when i was lifting i'm i've tried to find old travis videos videos and like i never was i never had hey will you fill my lips yeah i was there to win to beat

people to beat world records to chase ed khan like and to find out who the strongest person was yeah i didn't care about video and to ride that wave inside you you know like when you get that and the adrenaline spikes and your tunnel vision your pupils and you're just like i'm living right now i'm i'm riding that superman wave right. I never would have thought, hey, video this. That was the farthest thing from my mind. It's cool if it got on video because I get to look back now and go, wow, that was pretty awesome. I have like one good video, one world record is on video.

That's it. I mean, I'm glad. You mentioned Tommy Kona earlier. That was my impression of him too. He lifted in the basement like on iron plates with shitty equipment, no weightlifting shoes, didn't use a hook grip. He was trying to have everything just be about his performance and not rely on the equipment and rely on really nice stuff. It's nice to have nice stuff, of course. That's why we're here, basically, to get nice stuff.

But that old school, rough, I don't need anything. It's all about 100% effort and just use what you have. That's it. It's 100%. It's kind of funny, you know, fast forward, you know, we'd have the gym and guys would come in there like, hey, man, I'm about to hit, you know, my whatever PR. Like, hey, play a certain song. And dad's like, if you have to play a song to get excited to lift or to hit your best lift, it's not in your heart.

Yeah. Like, you don't want it that bad. heart yeah like you don't want it that bad like you just don't want it that bad if you can't do it in the basement by yourself at 10 o'clock at night then you can't because you've just decided i was going to do this before i turned this some arbitrary goal that you're just going i'm going to effing do this yeah today today because this is what my destiny holds, then maybe this ain't for you or not to that level, right? And I think most people don't start weightlifting early enough in their life to go on that journey.

They just kind of want results. Of course. I want to look better naked. A really interesting piece when you find people that have done this their entire life. You go, well, when did you start? They're like, 11, start like 11 14 16 seems to be like you're 11 i was 13 you're 13 14 um it just there's something inside us that we have to go we have to go pick it up yes yes and you've seen like the blob it's like the the half of a hundred

pound old hundred pound dumbbell yeah so years ago in the 80s like he dropped a dumbbell or something it bent so he cut that he broke or something cut off the handle it was just in the garage for years and he would keep moving around and one day he was like i'm gonna try to pick this like shit i can't pick this thing up and for years he tried to pick that which is wild to think he's trying to palm it like a basketball yeah to try to palm it like a bath it is like a convex edge so it's real difficult to do and now it's known as like one of the world feats of grip strength but he's screwed with these things for years and i'm thinking like what made you after the first year think it was still doable when you couldn't do it and finally he got it and then he

he sent it to like randy strose and iron mind stuff like that and they're like what are you even doing he's like i don't know but i don't know anyone else. You know, and then Brookfield and some other guys, when I was a kid, they came out and they met and they all this stuff. And they were, Brookfield was like, that's the hardest shit I've ever tried. You know? And then he got, he finally was able to do it. And then that like became a thing, but I keep looking like when you don't even know something as a contest, what keeps you going to try to win a thing that doesn't even exist? Like, that's wild. Totally.

Growing up in the mountains, like, one of the things we used to do is, like, you know, hay. You're belling hay. And you just want to see how many bells of hay you can throw in one hand, throw up on a truck. So it starts with one. If you do that, that's amazing. Sure.

You go to two, which separates you from most people. You do three, and it's like you're a legend. You amazing. Sure. You go to two, which that separates you from most people. You do three, and it's like you're a legend. You're a legend. You're a legend. Why? Is it that when you start to look at the original Strong, it's like, well, there's a rock on the ground. Correct. Who's going to pick that up?

Yes. Well, the person that picks it up must be a man. Must be. Must be a man because no one else can do it. I feel like those are like the origins of what we all do professionally now. It's like, well, who's the big guy that's going to pick that rock up? I don't know if it's good, but it's better than y'all. We should make sure that he gets the hot chick in town because we need more of him.

Have you ever met the Gillianhams from Minnesota? Their hands. Oh. I mean, they have mitts. It's like, I've never met someone who has hands. Where are they? They're in Minnesota. I mean, their dad was a pro bowler for the Packers, I believe.

All three brothers have been either world record holders, professional strongmen. I just assume anytime someone says strong people, it's like Jackal's Gym where I bought my first pair of Ray-Bans. They were like the only people selling Ray-Bans at the time. Jackal's Gym actually might have been owned by the Gillinghams. I'm pretty sure. I am pretty sure it was.

It is. Brad Gillingham. Yeah, that's Brad and, yeah. I don't know his brother. Brad told me he's the first one to deadlift with a double overhand hook. I feel I was second. Then I saw him do it. I'm like, wait, I was a weightlifter first. I feel I was second. And then I saw him do it. I'm like, wait, I was a weightlifter first.

Why am I doing overhanders? And then I switched. Then Steve Goggins. And now it's a thing. Now it's a thing. Yeah. But Brad Gilliam was the first one to do it. I think Gilliam has something like one of the most 400-kilo deadlifts.

I remember when he did 881 drug-free in USAPL. He was a man because he did you know yeah hats off like he did it i'm pretty confident he was legit drug free and like wow yeah so when did you officially start kind of like training so i would play around with it as a kid like you know go to pops's house and like he would always bait me with like little like gi joeman and stuff like that so i see my son getting the same treatment like i'm really into dinosaurs yeah he's the pops like hey ezra if you could do this my six-year-old deadlifted 100 pounds and you're like geez of course it's gonna call it you better get it you better get it going yeah yeah so it's a little older i would say when i was uh probably a freshman in high school like i started kind of yeah i maybe a hair before that yeah um and it was kind of funny i wasn't

really kind of into it because i was always skinny and i was under i was underdeveloped as a hard gainer and so i'm out screwing around fishing and goofing off i always thought being strong would be really cool but i just didn't know like you train and you're like i didn't get anywhere this sucks yeah and so pops was actually pretty smart it's kind of weird and embarrassing he was like all right because i said well you know christmas is coming up i want to be able to like buy christmas presents and i didn't have a job he's like all right i'll give you five dollars a workout for every time you train and he goes that's how you're going to buy christmas presents this year i was like all right yeah so then that was my job that became my job and you think about it he was paying me about two dollars an hour but but he was like i realized i was

investing in laying the groundwork if i made it advantageous for you to do it eventually you would realize like there's value this is money in the bank and i was able to like buy christmas present president and after that i was like hey i don't i don't need the money anymore and i just want to kind of keep doing this yeah you see that what you have to do see that first big like yeah improvement anything yeah my bench went up my chest got bigger i gained weight like you just got to see that first little bit now you're hooked it's like a drug yeah the minute you see it you're like oh yeah so if i do this this is happens. And at that age, the confidence. Oh, yeah. When you walk into school and you're just a little bit stronger and we step on the field

or you throw a little bit further, everybody, you go, oh, there's something to this. Yeah. I really started doing barbell lifts when I was a sophomore in high school, and I put on like 20 pounds between sophomore and junior year. It totally radically changed my life. Was there a point for you like that where you put on a bunch of weight and a bunch of strength quickly and you're like oh yeah this is really where i want to go yeah it's a good question i again i was kind of like a late bloomer a very late bloomer so like i was barely in puberty when

i got to college like i mean i was i was 172 pounds at 6'2 in college but i was still 17 so i was young so i had some decent. I'd competed in some powerlifting. I'd done it. But it was never like I had that just, I'm rip-roaring. Yeah. But then I put 30 pounds on my first semester in college because, like, everything clicked. I got into a good training system. I told them about your old thing at South.

Tell them that story that leads in that, you know, that you accidentally ended up on the track team. Yeah. Yeah. So I was kind of the skinny dude. You know, I enjoyed lifting, but I wasn't particularly good at it. I had a couple, you know, I was like a close to 400-pound deadlifter at 172, 250 clean. Like I was pretty good at those things. Yeah.

But I sucked at everything else. I love that you say that's like low numbers because as a freshman or sophomore in high school, or in college, that's really good numbers. 400-pound deadlifts is respected. Most people aren't cleaning. Especially if you're 6'2", 170 pounds. That's pretty good, really. But I watched Pops back in the day.

Totally. I mean, literally. Your bar is too high. I remember seeing this 40-year-old man doing high pulls with 450. This was like an everyday occurrence. You're like, well, Pops is doing some enormous amount of work. So at least I have to clean 250. Yeah, yeah.

But it's also like the culture of Mash Elite. Yeah. 100%. They're like, I'm going to at least clean 400 pounds. Because everyone does. Because that's considered good. That gets you in the door. Yeah.

And if you don't get to 400, you didn't even open the door. I love that you're the old man that comes walking back. They're like oh fuck here he comes he's gonna squat this and make me look bad it's like 500 pounds on the bar speaking of a walking back story we'll go so this was 10 12 years ago and i'd never seen pops back off of any lift like he's he's going to generally always get it yeah and he was probably 62 at the time maybe and you know he'd already had cancer surgery he'd already had he was a 62 year old man and he was lifting he all instead of wearing wrist wraps he would always tape his wrist he still does it because it's old time right and i remember we're

in the gym and i was always trying to kind of like pump the brakes on him because he would just pull stuff and rip stuff because he's big tall guy right and old and so i can't remember what it was it was high fours maybe 500 it was a good deadlift and he's just he was you know lifting all day and he was just you could tell he's getting like pissed off because it just wasn't happening and finally like he went to pull couldn't couldn't get it and dropped it and you just see his shoulder slump and he took his tape off and he and he just sat in his desk for a while and you see almost like kind of tearing up and i was like you all right and he's like yeah he goes that's the first time i've ever quit and i'm like wow and i was like you know pops seriously don't tear a hamstring don't like

be smart i'm trying to like soften it yeah and he's like okay he just like you could tell he was like his world had just crashed yeah and so he walked outside it was about eight o'clock at night and we're all just finishing lifting and we see his hummer starts up it pulls out and all this look at each other like son of a bitch he actually left we're like and josh i got a feeling there's more to this josh josh who left josh who was working out he's like man pops is smarting it up he didn't hurt himself and we saw this light stop and we're like oh shit here he comes and it just stopped and it just sat there for about 30 seconds the parking lot was stop, and we're like, oh, shit. Here he comes. And it just stopped, and it just sat there for about 30 seconds in the parking lot. It was like slow motion.

We're like, this is not happening. It's happening. Goes in. Truck does not turn off. He gets out, walks in, goes, boom. Doesn't say a word to anyone. Walks out the door and drives away. Really what he did was like this to you guys.

Oh, yeah. And to himself, himself like no this isn't how this goes and he's just like doesn't he there's like a 500 pound deadlift that goes down every year at summer strong yeah so he did 49 straight years he deadlifted 500 pounds my lord he made it from 14 to 64 or 14 i, I can't remember, 15 to 65. Yeah. And the 65th year, or the 65 would have been 50 years. And he was taking, what is it, a leave, and he got a stomach bleed.

And his hemoglobin super dropped, like, the point where he's, like, almost passing out all the time, and he didn't know what was wrong. So this was, like, a little bit before Summer Strong one year. year and he was supposed to he was training up to do the 500 and then like that day they're like don't lift and of course he was going to yeah and uh and then he was like well he kind of looked and he's like bird i don't think i could do it like i don't think i have it in me and i was like well i understand i was like well you know he goes but he looked it up he goes well what was the what was the heaviest in my age group deadlifted at nationals this year and it was like 461 he's like put 462 on it and

so he hit it and then i told him i was like well a soaring male has to pull 500 we have to keep this going i said would you mind if i did it and he's like go now you guys so the next 40 years that would make it cool with me one of my boys my boys said that, I'd be like, I can bow out now. Yeah, so that was kind of the thing. That's when we kind of changed over. And then I hit a PR that day. Strangely enough, I hadn't trained for it, but it was just jacked. And then the next year I hit 600, and then I kind of kept rolling.

And then kind of the goal was my lofty goal, which I'd love a soaring male to be able to deadlift 500 for a century. Yeah, just keep it going forever. That'd'd be awesome how old would you have to be how i told i was like boys grow up come on i'm getting old yeah uh you know i haven't think i could do it for another 10 years or so and then my kids will be like 18 oh yeah lightweight at that point fine at that point for a soaring yeah well my my son's wired for sound. He's one of those kids. But, no, so it's been fun just watching that kind of intensity and that kind of, you know, you hate to say, like, you know, it's a pride.

It's an ego. Yeah, lifting is an ego thing. There is a self-image that he and a lot of us, everyone standing here hold themselves accountable to and that could sometimes be a weakness but i think those numbers too are like yeah so important to in general like just my existence like yes i always want to be able to get fired up and clean 300 pounds yes like i just if i can't i i assumed that once I stopped competing and that being the driving focus that it would just go away and then it

didn't and then I was like well shit how long can I keep this just going how long can I squat 315 for X how long can I keep those numbers going I'm going to always front squat 400, deadlift 500, bench 300 clean 300, always

snatch 225 if I can snatch, I want to know how long I'm going to be able Always front squat 400, deadlift 500, bench 300, clean 300. Always. Yeah. That's a pretty solid number. If I can snatch, I want to know how long I'm going to be able to snatch 225 for. Forever. How old are you now? 37. 37? Yeah.

I did it probably the last time I was 41, 42. I haven't tried it since. I have a feeling I probably can't. I probably need to train up to it again. Yeah. I just see Hunter Elam in the room. And then that was it. I was 42 years old, and I did a, what's it called, a super total meet.

I was 42. I snatched 300 pounds. Jeez. Jerk 400 pounds at 42. How old were you when you pulled seven? 42. It was the same era. No, it wasn't the same day, but that was the same era.

It was 2015. I was still crushing. But those numbers, like, super matter in just keeping you accountable to the day-to-day grind of it. Because I think people really struggle, and they fall off the wagon because they, like, don't see the results. To me, the longevity game is, like, there's a standard that I live my life by. That's right. And it just happens to be that I snatch two and a quarter or I clean 300 or I squat this. Whatever those numbers are, you go,

well, if I fall below that, I know I'm out of shape. Correct. And then I really have to look in the mirror and be like, what is wrong with you? Yeah, because you know it's feasible. Yeah. And if you do it every year or you have this, just you're around all your bros

and we're going to max out today just because it's fun. Like all those things, you have to be in shape. Totally. There's no off-season, in-season. It's like, oh, we're just all together. Today, we're going after it. And if you're not ready that day, well, that's standard. I saw Matt Winninger, he hits 400 on front squat.

And then I was joking with him. I'm like, how can you not? He said, front squat 400. He said, can you still do it, old man? And I saw you not, it's a front squat 400 he said can you still do it old man and so I'm like immediately I front squatted I said Matty I could be dead in the casket I'll get up and front squat 400 one more time now you can bank your

bottom dollar on me and whether that's a good idea or not probably not but the key, the real, the crazy ones that have that in there, they're like you'll have to kill me before I won't do that. There's no way I'll never front score. There's no way that won't happen.

That day that Hunter, we were snatching at Mash Elite, and Hunter was there, and I missed like 185. I was like, how the fuck did I just do that? You're in the wrong gym. I'm in the wrong place. But then I snatched 232, and I was like, thank God. I looked at Doug and was like, get me out of here. I am way out of my league right now.

That girl snatches as much as I do. 220, yeah. You got a girl. Yeah. Snatches 220. She's super pretty. She looked back and she was like, well, that's my opener. And I was like, well, shit, I'm going to have to show up today.

I'm not prepared for this. It's interesting you say that. I was talking to Jocko Willink about a week ago, and we were talking about different lifters. I love way jaco's fantastic i love his like you know his codes and it's awesome and we were talking i said well what kind of what what kind of lifting you're doing right now he's like well i still snatch and i clean and i this not that you know he's 49 years old and you know as a team's guys he's pretty jacked up usually yeah and i was like he he's like how about you i was like well I haven't done like cleans in a minute, you know, and we got talking.

He goes, yeah, I just refused to submit a lift. I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, well, what I do a lot of times is if I can't do it at that level, it's like I'll either work around it or do something else that I could do. He's like, yeah. He goes, but I've realized I'm paraphrasing. But he's like, if I submit and don't, say if it's snatches. Oh, snatches hurt my shoulder. He goes, but when I stop doing snatches, one day I will not be able to do snatches.

He's like, I know that I'm just submitting that lift potentially forever if I stop doing it. He goes, I don't care if I have to do it with a bar. I'm still snatching. I have a chance. I could come back. He goes, but when I stop doing it, one day I won't be able to do it. Okay. I'm snatching.

Like today. Today we're doing it. Yeah. I'm just like, he's right. He's right. And it hit me and convicted me. And I'm like, man, I probably haven't snatched in a few years because it's like, I don't need to. I'm not throwing anymore.

I'm not doing this. And then you go, you know, I haven't done as much weight as you, but I've done a lot. And you're like, I'm never going to do that much again. So why do it? Why do it? And the shoulder's a little inky, and maybe I'll just do this instead. And I'm like, son of a bitch, one day I'll go to do it. I won't be able to do it.

And I won't be able to do it because I'm not doing it. That just freaked me out. For sure I'm snagged. I mean, it hit me in here, and it was just like, what things have I already submitted that I don't even know I've submitted? Dude, the worst thing, I had a doctor, when I got my, you know, I had a hip replacement. Yeah.

And they told me, okay, you can do some things, but you're probably not going to squat or clean ever again. Right. Immediately I'm like starting my plan. That's just guaranteed. And then 20 weeks later, I front squatted 506. Jeez. After my hip surgery.

Yeah. Like you just can't, the thing of telling me I can't. Perfect. Do the thing I've done my whole life. Yeah. they don't know what you're saying to me it's like you can't tell me i can't do this thing that i don't know what else do i do who am i if i can't clean or front squat right i don't know right and that's something that you know as lifters and as just people we all have to look at the reality of i know we've talked about it but there's also kind of that nice holding yourself accountable maybe even for silly reasons that probably keep you i mean there's no reason that

a 70 year old richard sorenson still be in here deadlifting well if you do it every day because that's what he does what he does if you have to do it tomorrow you got to show up yeah that's it and that's what we talk about like live the code you're like you shouldn't have to show up. That's it. And that's what we talk about, like live the code. You're like, you shouldn't have to train up for everything. I train up every once or twice a year, what I call to touch the curtain. Like I'm going to get up there and hit that rarefied air again, but I don't have to live there. But I have to live the code enough where I'm always in striking distance. Back and get there.

That's exactly right. I'm within six to eight weeks of kind of wherever I want to be. Me too. But my body can't handle living there. Yeah. Are you referencing a specific code right now? We just talk about it here. Like if someone's doing the hard stuff, if they're being consistent,

if they're making the hard decisions and we just call like, you know, it's kind of like, yeah, he lives the code. And it kind of goes back to if you know it, you know that you're living the code. Yeah. And I don't know how. Maybe I would love to define it with you guys. Like, what is that?

But you know when someone's doing it. It's a sickness almost. It's a sickness. Like, it's just there's a thing that you do. Or a value. You value it high enough. Like, I value doing the strenuous life hard stuff enough where I will continue to live that code as long as I'm feasibly able.

I actually feel like the culture of what, so even panning out a little bit more, something that I've always been impressed with Sorenx is like I came from the CrossFit space. Like I had 10 years of strength training before that, but it was always for sports and then CrossFit became the sport. Of course.

And where the company was at that time, I assume it probably would have been the very sexy, easy decision to just go all in on that. Of course. And when I think about where you guys are at right now and the vibe and the culture, it's purely Sorenex. And you guys have thrived by staying in your own lane and and really doubling down on who whatever that culture feels like to you and and and it's it's been very impressive to watch because it's so simple to look at those flashy things that probably don't align but you're like

man that's a great business opportunity in 2012. Oh, you're printing money in 2012. And I feel like now you guys, because of doubling down on that culture, which I'd love to hear just kind of like what it means to you, you guys have really just carved out your own space, and it's really cool from a business perspective and just kind of knowing how hard that must have been at that time to really go all in on yourself. It's very insightful that you see that you know because sometimes even not everyone here always saw it because you know when yeah when crossfit first kicked off i mean you know glassman had us in the article one first issue of where to get equipment

before there were any crossfit companies that was where i found out yeah it was like hey so the journal because yeah and glassman used to call me he's like hey you got my credit card i need another glute ham like yeah man got you and he's like hey are you doing fran i'm like nah man i'm trying to throw a weight really far sounds cool though see you not at all yeah it's me you know but then i think we were at the first or second CrossFit Games at Dave's Ranch, and we brought the first rig system that really was every CrossFit rig was based upon. No way. You guys were first in that?

I didn't know that. I drew that on a napkin. I'm impressed. I'd love to see that napkin. It's in the museum over there. The idea was, because you were there at CrossFit, because everyone was welding all these rigs to their places, and there was this giant monolithic piece of whatever. And then, of course, with a CrossFit model,

if you're doing it well, you have to move. You have to expand. And then it was like, well, we got this guy down the street to weld up this thing. We had a plumber come in and put plumbing pipe together and then we bolted it to the studs and it was dangerous. Dangerous as crap. And then when you went to

move, you had to scrap it or whatever. And got thinking one day this is a great story i was actually i was actually hanging out i was having a couple drinks with the girl i was dating at the time and i was like they're missing this whole thing i was like they're all missing it they're making these custom deals it's like you make something that's replicatable customizable by the customer you could ship it to them on a pallet. And I was like, and stop making the damn uprights eight feet apart. Make them four feet apart. Put holes in all four sides, and those are your squat stands.

Boom. And I literally just drew it up on a napkin. I was like, this will change the industry. And she was like, not in the lifting. She's like, that's cool. I'll have a Mai Tai. Like, she had no idea what we were talking about. She's like, let's go get naked.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, oh, cool. But, yeah, so kind of designed that. the idea what we're talking about she's like let's go get naked yeah cool um but uh yeah so kind of designed that and the idea initially was to help the cross the burgeoning crossfit world because i saw it was like every gym was this big in their garage and then they had to make it bigger and then they got a little warehouse and if they were successful they got their second and third and fourth warehouses and then i was seeing them already starting to break up and then their partners would break up and then they would and so was like, and then the war was kicking off hard,

and we were getting people calling us all the time wanting racks. I'm like, well, it's hard to send over a bunch of racks, especially, say, if it's this special operations command, and then they have to deploy somewhere else. I was like, if we have a product that could break up, and these guys could say, I'm taking these 10 uprights and these 20 crossbars, and we're out. And these guys could take it, and they're out,

and they could start deploying all over the world. That was what it was designed for. Actually, the first rig was made in olive drab heat-resistant paint because I knew I was putting them in the desert. So that's what we were, and we were putting them tan, the first one. So if you look at the CrossFit 2 games 2008, the ones at Dave's place, we set up the first rig ever, and they were black, tan, and green. And the funny part was people would show up, and they would look around.

They'd go, sweet pull-up rig. I'm like, yeah, it's actually you can squat off there. They're like, do you all make squat stands? I'm like, no, it's a J-clip. You just put it in. So there's a J-clip. They're like, cool, pull-up rig. Do you all make squat stands?

I'm like, oh, man, I feel like I was on The Simpsons. He's like, all right, mister. And I was just like it in. So there's Jacob. They're like, cool, pull-up rig. Do you all make squat stands? And I'm like, oh, man, I feel like I was on The Simpsons. And he's like, all right, mister. And I was just like, ah. But there were a few people early on that just got it. It was like Tony Blauer and a couple guys like that were like, right away, they're like, holy crap, what's that? And I was like, well, it's kind of a customizable gym, and it comes in a pallet, and you do whatever you want with it.

And we had jump boxes built into it, dip bars built it and that was the predecessor really back then you had all that yeah first iteration had that dude you guys are okay that's awesome i didn't know this i did not i still have some old video like kids walking and then the next part of it was i was like well you know because pops and my and myself were both physical education teachers like that's our degree so it was like how do you keep people moving yeah so i said well if we make something that could be used in a crossfit gym military home gym but you could also turn them into jungle gym type things for kids to start moving and get and get early movement pattern stuff it's like a quadruple value option piece and um you know but that's a perfect business example of if you don't have a marketing team and you you have a small sales group and your business isn't

set up for that because we were still doing most stuff with colleges pro teams whatever so we were deep invested in this world and this new world of crossfit and the individuals were coming up and so we just didn't really have a way to service those people I mean they'd call us we're like yeah sure we'll get you one but like a long time ago a long time right and you're probably messing with or those people that are calling are like well I've got thirty thousand dollars what do I do and you're like NFL team or like a thousand dollars exactly or a thousand bucks this is racking the bar are they like two hundred dollars uh no yeah no and we started

getting frustrated because it's like all right everyone keeps asking for cheap stuff and and and you know and then you guys are yeah no it's not and we were trying to be best in class so like that part product although it shifted the way training was done it was still like almost not really seated for us yeah really and then of course we we pushed it into like racks and rigs and stuff like that there was in the college that kind of rewrote how that worked but um early on yeah we were a sponsor of the crossfit games back then and kind of you know uh castro at the farm the first one he ever had was was a sorenx one and that was before other companies that did that stuff later were even really rolling um yeah

you know it was then it became rogan muscle driver yeah and then those guys they they doubled down into that community and they started throwing money into it and of course that's how that goes which is fine that's the business model that's what it is and we said well we're into the high performance world of this this is where we've been if these folks want to purchase from us awesome we'll help them out but it's gonna be great stuff but it's gonna be great stuff and that's what we're gonna do and then you saw some some chinese companies start popping up early on and i remember having a conversation with dave they had a company called garage gym i remember that i remember that yeah it has like the two g's and and i i kind of got uh i got a little

pissy about it because you know i talked to a couple of the folks there um and i said hey man it's kind of an ass move in hindsight i just thought because i think crossfit was you know they were kind of like pumping it a little bit like hey you should buy from garage gym and you know and dave i like dave but i was like, dude, you're a SEAL, right? And he was like, yeah. I was like, you're buying AK bullets with that shit from China. He goes, what are you talking about? I said, it's an economic war we're in regardless if you believe it or not.

And economy. I said, I'm trying to make stuff in the U.S. And you guys are pushing something that's made in China. Yeah. I said that's made with inferior engineering, inferior everything. And I said... And taking advantage of people.

And taking advantage of people. I said, we're naming these hero wads on this patriotic stuff. And doing something different. And doing something different. I said, I find it disingenuous whether you meant it or not. Yeah.

Like, it just feels weird to me. It feels weird that, like, we're trying to be pro-America, yay, and we're pushing a brand that's coming out that's just copying stuff and getting cheap crap to people. I said, I'd prefer not to play. I'm going to go do my thing. So that was it?

Is that where you split from them? No, I mean, we were still friendly, whatever, but that's when other people started jumping in the mix. And again, I have nothing bad to say about any of those guys, but it's when business goes and you start seeing opportunity. As a business, you have to say this is what we stand for. It's what we stand for. Or even as another business grows,

sometimes there's oversight that you just don't think. You're like, oh, wow, yeah, y'all want to help out? Cool, sponsor, cool. And then you start seeing some of the origins of what that might mean, and it's like, eh, maybe we kind of took a hard ride on that one. But I'm never going to tell someone, like, you can't do things. I'll just generally say this is my perception of it. Yeah.

Do what you like. I feel like long term you guys won that battle. I don't know. As of right this second, CrossFit is like, I mean, it's still a thing, but, like, it's nothing like it used to. And you guys are in that sector that's always going to be there. I think so. And that was even what Pops was saying, too, back in the day.

People were like, y'all got to get double to triple down at CrossFit. We would have made money hand over fist. I remember thinking they should have, too. And they certainly did it and made money. Maybe hindsight, it would have been great. I don't think so. Not now. I think you guys have.

But the other thing pops goes listen i've been in this a long time i've seen every fad come and go and he says and some are better than others and whatever he goes if we stick to quality and strength in the community it will always be there yeah that will always be something because it's always worked and we're like good stay on stay in our lane do you think if you had gone in into the crossfit space you saw the market was growing there's a lot of potential there especially financially that at this point in the game 2021 you'd be kind of like just not as into it not as passionate because you're just this is not the world you wanted to live in uh i think there's a possibility that i think that

would have been a it would have been a tough slippery slope that's a wonderful question i think two things would have happened we would have had to grow so much to to help to fulfill the need i think our brand dna would have been diluted too much i think you know i do too if if what we core believed in spreads out among a thousand people and you can't grow that within the group i think after a while it's going to be kind of like the ikea model like you could get some good furniture there the customer experience is decent but who who's Mr. Ikea? Yeah. You know?

I mean, as a strength and conditioning coach, like, if you would have gone all in with CrossFit, I probably would not. If I were at the Carolina Panthers, I'm not going to put you in my gym. And we honestly heard that. We heard that, and guys would go, oh, that's just CrossFit stuff. And it's, again, nothing against CrossFit.

CrossFit is good for CrossFit. The only reason I even brought it up was because I come from that world. Sure. And in watching and owning a gym in it, everything seems so easy at that stage of it. And now you're on the other side of it where you've really cemented yourself as having that culture, the DNA. We've talked about about a couple times and without kind of not by taking the harder route and not going and servicing that you have to really, as we said, double down on who you are in that culture. I guess, how do you kind of view the

culture of Sorenex and instill that into the employees and into the equipment? I know what I think. I want to know what I think. I want to know what it is. Especially from a hiring perspective, like how you choose people. Yeah. Well, I think kind of to your point, I think maybe a strength and probably a strength and sometimes an initial weakness for dad and I both, we're both into things that take a long freaking time to be good at.

And so the long money is kind of built into us yeah you know a smart business move would have been quadrupling down on crossfit yeah doing it for eight years riding the wave checking out the company selling it out by my fourth beach house and then having a gym for free that would have been the smart business move i'm not a smart business person i mean that means you have a family business still that is doing very well. Yeah. But whether it's been bow hunting or hammer throwing or lifting or whatever, generally all the stuff that I'm good at is because I've done it longer than most people.

Generally. That's kind of how it works. Completely agree with all of that. It's just because like ah you gave up after three years i've done it for 20 i'm going to be better just because i'm still you died off it's a marathon it's right and if but if you love it why what else will we do yeah right like that's the thing that's a whole podcast all i have left is dying

if the goal was to make a bazillion dollars and sell it off and ride in the sunset, like, no, okay, if we started a refrigeration company, I don't give a shit about refrigeration. Make a bunch of money. Let me go do what I want to do. Just so happens this is what I want to do. So then you build a sustainable, profitable business model that lasts a long time versus something that does this. Now, could we have made better business decisions at times yes fine so keeping that that brand dna is super important and the dna of like a guy that'll drive away and turn his car back and come back and that doesn't mean just from a deadlifting standpoint that means anything that means on an install that means on a delivery that means on whatever needs to be done.

That's just like, I mean, some guys we've had have done some amazing things over the years. You know, we had an install that was, everything could go wrong on it because you have 30 racks going into an abandoned and refurbished train station. That sounds cool. I'm going to go train there today. With 35 columns. And it's just like the worst case scenario you could get into it was a 30 straight hour delivery no one slept no one complained yeah it was just it's what you do the ribbon cutting is this time we're gonna stay here until we're done that's just awesome and like didn't have to tell the guys.

They knew what was on the line. And, like, that DNA is the stuff that a business model doesn't work because you're like, oh, you're going to wear out your guys. You're going to do this. You're going to do this. You better pay overtime. It's like, that is how this goes. Yeah.

You know, and so that kind of stuff, finding those people. And you don't find them by putting out resumes. No. I saw your employees. Tex. I've known him forever. Yeah, finding those people. And you don't find them by putting out resumes. No. I saw your employees. Tex, I've known him forever. Yeah, yeah, sure. Brandon Lilly. Yeah.

You get that because you hire people who love it like you do. Who follow this, have the same DNA. So those just become people in your life that you just go, man, you know, I've hung out or trained with this person for five, trained with Tex for years and years and years and years. I've known him since I was a powerlifting player. Sure. And you go, I know what he's about.

People go, let me send you a resume. I go, if you've got to send me a resume, don't even send it. I don't know you. It's too late. Your resume is your last 10 years. I know who you are. Yeah. That's it.

Let's talk about how this might work in real life. And that's really a lot of our people that work here have either been clients. They've either been just people that have hung out and done stuff with us and like as a group we're like hey do you see so-and-so there that he came in man i don't really like that dude and then a year later it's man did you see hey i think he just got laid off of so-and-so like yeah man he was when he was here last month and like call him and see what he's up to. Yeah. I had such an awesome – my wife said this. And we moved to North Carolina from San Diego. And, like, I just – I would sit down with her and be like, babe, I just don't want to have friends.

It's, like, too hard for me to have friends. It's, like, I like what I like, and what I like is just not what normal people like. And I don't really want to put the time into having friends and all that. And it's just, it's too cumbersome for me to worry about other people's expectations. And like, I just, it's so stressful to think that I have to go on a double date with this other couple. And all I want to talk about is weightlifting and they don't even know they're doing like fitness stuff.

Like, I don't, it's not for me. Like, I'm sorry. And I'm like, just think about all the people that i actually enjoy being around and she goes oh you either train or start businesses with them that involve training and i was like yeah i can't i don't i don't i'm so uninterested in everything else that i only want to be around those people and then they become hireable and then become a podcast host with us and then they become hireable and then become a podcast host with us and then they become best friends and it's like i i don't know how to just go be someone's

friend i just i'm like oh you do this you make this better let's go yes so your brand you you see it the same way your brand dna and your expectation for that brand dna is it you can't get diluted yeah and so i won't let people in my circle that are going to dilute that. Now, they may shift, and that's kind of a weird way to put it. So their brand DNA might be for a different thing, but the guts of it are the same. Like I'm really good friends with Zac Brown, the singer. He is so deep. Just downloaded so much rad stuff from him. Super cool. He's so deep he is so, just downloaded so much rad stuff from him. He's so deep water into

things he's into. He just happens to be really good at music. Yeah. That's, that's like one of 10 things he's super into. So we geek out about like, we're super into some of the same stuff. And we're like, the nerds are like deep water rabbit hole guys. We don't talk training. We don't train together, but we both enjoy life to the same extent. So now we're in each other's circles, and that becomes what I mean about the strong brand DNA.

I don't want to go out and talk about the weather. Let's go talk about what we're super passionate about, and then we'll probably work together. There's something about strength training, too, where you have to be that person because if you're going to deadlift 500 pounds you have to think out there and you you can't play in the middle no so like yeah cool you like working out rad but you there's a different person that deadlifts 500 pounds and it's and really it boils

down to you know two things like i kind of always laugh like when when i realize i'm like a fringe guy or kind of outside or whatever i go and not that I'm like want people to like write a book about it like they don't write books or make movies about normal people yeah the people that like the normal shit that ain't that ain't who they talk about that's not who changes the world that's not I have no interest in normal yeah and or or kind of mediocre like mediocre sounds like the worst thing of all time that's death to me. That's right. That's death.

My mom, you know, I love her. She's a great mom. And she made me laugh. But she would like, you know, she would say be realistic. You know, I'd say, Mom, I want to live in the fitness world. That's all I want to do. And she'd be like, you need to get a real job, you know. And now she's like, I'm glad you didn't listen to me.

But, like, I had no interest in doing what everyone. She's like, look at your uncles know you should do what they do oh you're saying i should like get a job and stay in the mountains like everybody else and not do anything i'm like yeah i that's death i would die i would shoot myself i just can't we talk about the thin air so another one of the kind of terms we use here is thin air and that's what that means is if everyone and again i don't mean to this disrespectful to people just doing the normal stuff but nor do i yeah but if everyone's doing the stuff down here then you go a little bit higher and there's base camp and then you go to the top of the mountain and there's this rarefied thin air yeah that very few people even want to get to much less can get to but what you start realizing is there's actually less competition

up there totally and the people who are up there generally you're like hey that's rad you're up here too yeah like and that doesn't mean economically it means just like it could be lifting it could be mindset it could mean whatever it's like are you breathing that thin air like that stuff that maybe most people are afraid to go to and that's the fun stuff like i look for thin air people are you that guy that's going to go so deep water into that that's what we use for sore necks outdoors it's thin air and deep water they mean the same thing at the world championships i know things change for me when all of a sudden instead of me like going in there and being super like intense and wanting to win even though i

wanted to win of course but when i realized i'm at this elite group of people yes we all love the exact same thing you're breathing the same thin air. And then things changed. Yes. And then I was hanging out with my friends. Yep. I just happened to be breaking world records. Correct.

And lifting a little bit more than them. Yeah. To say that. But. Because you're competitive. But they're my boys. Yeah. Chuck Vogelpool's over here.

You know, Louie Simmons is over there. Dave Tate's over here. And like, this is great. And when I realized I'm just hanging out with my friends I'm not at world championships kinda maybe but then things change

and it's just a few of us up there when you wake in walking you're just shaking hands with the people like oh great to see you instead of like

oh look over there who's that how you fit oh you're okay you're so right when I can see Ed Cohn and he gives me a hug

I knew at that moment like super cool inside I'm crying but I'm not letting moment, like, inside I'm crying. But I'm not letting him see it. But, like, I'm like a little kid because he, you know, even today, like, it's so weird. Even though, like, I was super competitive with Ed Cohn, but, like, he's still my idol. And, like, even today when I see him, I'm shaking.

I try not to let him see it, but, like, inside me I'm like, you know the first time i saw ed cone i had to walk out of the room because i threw up this is true story i walk into wayans it was my first it was um when the wpo first started we're in orlando and i walk into wayans and he's right there and i went and threw up everywhere then i go to eat that night and i see chuck vogelpool jesse kellum ed cone i throw up again like i was just so like. Wasn't that so freaking cool? Damn right it was cool. I was there. I was there.

You made it. Yeah. I remember my first Nationals or Olympic trials, like I walk around, I'm like, oh, my gosh. And I remember going, I get to be on the same bus, the same room, the same. And it was like that light bulb moment. I'm like, I'm breathing their air. Like I'm kind of here. Kind of. There's still a lot of work to go, but like I'm breathing their air yeah like i'm kind of here kind of

there's still a lot of work to go but like i'm on the ship now yeah and like to me that was always so exciting yeah yes that was like i get to be in this fight now it was more exciting than getting to the you know once you win it's not as fun no no it's on that way and you're in that group and you're like and winning against a bunch of people that don't aren't that good like yeah who cares yeah like i'd rather get my ass kicked by the best in the world absolutely i want to be in the room with the best yeah you know and hang out and learn and listen and talk or yeah share you know how did when you growing up what was it like what caused you to be like this? Yeah. Let me tell you what caused me. You know, like getting to know these people,

and we soon find out we're all exactly the same. Something causes you to be like that. Something causes you to be a thin air individual. Yeah. And it's just because your normal people don't get that. There has to almost kind of be a damage or something. Like there's a wound that happens that makes someone go, I'm going to climb this mountain.

Like Alex and Old. He's nuts. He's nuts. He's the nuts of the nuts. Right. But he's put that into, channeled it into something that no human should ever attempt. For sure. And you go, I'm down with that.

I'm not not gonna go climb over the other day hunter elam she texted me out of the blue and she's like um she starts asking me about maddie sasser who's an olympian who's she's the top american girl at in the 64 kilogram weight class and so hunter's like what makes her so good and i'm like uh she's fast she she's do you think she's better than me i'm like no, no. You're stronger. You have better timing. She says, why is she beating me? I was like, because she doesn't have any other option. Because when she grew up, her mother tried to kill her.

Oh, my gosh. She has nothing to go back to. Your parents are loaded. You can go to school. You can just go home and live with your parents. She does not have another option. And that's what makes her right now for sure until in your brain you say i have no other option she will beat you it's wow yeah well i've always heard as well

who's a russian coach i was talking to is either i can't remember i think it's for olympic weight lifting it might have been for hammer throwing but the context was uh our country is doing well which is bad for the event, but good for the country. Yeah. Meaning, like, really Olympic weightlifting and hammer throwing and stuff like that that takes a really long time to do, doesn't pay well, and is really hard, doesn't really go great in countries with a lot of money. People are always like, we need more money for this.

Like, no, you don't. You kind of need it to be the only option. Yeah. You need to be like that or the sulfur mines. There needs to be one spot for the best person, and then we'll find the guy that wants to get there. You're going to do the sulfur mines, or you're going to clean a jerk 250K.

On it. As soon as I put myself in line, you don't have another option. If you go home, you failed. Your mom was right. All these people were correct. And when I made that decision, like, damn that. That's not an option.

Then I was going to win, and I did. Yeah. But people have to – if you really want to be great, truly great, you want to be the tip top, eventually you've got to say, I do not have another option. I'm either doing that or nothing. This is the option. That's the option.

Yeah. I'd love to dig in. I mean, we're clearly here, and the equipment's gorgeous, and everything's set up. I'd love to dig into just kind of like what the the processes look of actually how long it takes from you on a napkin to actually building the first rack and then all of this other stuff like what what kind of those systems look like and yeah the engineer i mean i i just like picking up weights and talking about it you like designing stuff it's a whole different process. It goes back to Pops

always telling me, look at something for not what it is, but what it can be. He was kind of like the... He's so full of these analogies. He's going to write it down. He would take rando crap around our house and turn it into something or would tinker with everything.

Everything was like, whatever the store-bought version of it was, he would always adjust it to make it better. And so that was always kind of the mindset was like, this is a really cool bottle, but, you know, really if it had a, and I'm just making this up, if it had a X, Y, and Z, it would be better. And that was kind of the mindset that I just kind of developed. And everything you look at, just you win in your mind if you can make it better. And then when you have the capacity to make it better in physical terms um and that's really how sorenix started he was like

lifting equipment is good but he was a big tall strong person he was lifting by himself he was like i can make it stronger i can make it more adjustable i can make it safer i can make it look cooler yeah and he had an ability to build so he's well, I'm just going to do it the way I would do it. Yeah. Because there's no one out there doing it. Was he an engineer or he just knew? He was just a guy. He took a lot of stuff early on.

He was going to be a machinist, engineer, shop kind of person. But he took all those courses early on. And then it just turned out that he could throw a discus far. And so're like well why don't you come to college he's like that wasn't even really an option and they're like well you're strong you can throw a discus about 200 feet so you pick and he's like oh he told me later he goes i thought college was kind of like summer camp because i never really it was it totally was just in the Yeah, he was like, I just thought of it. You ever been to an SC football game? Of course, in summer camp. That was a rude awakening when I got there.

He was like, I was always planning on working at a machine shop, and then they told me they were going to take me to this college place as long as I threw the discus. And he's like, cool. That sounds fun. Take me to this college place as long as I can throw this little disc thing. Yeah. And he's like, I never really loved discus.

I was just stronger than everyone because I loved weightlifting. He goes, I loved weightlifting. Thus, it made a discus go far that people seemed to like. Yeah. Yeah. No kidding. Yeah, no kidding. But in 1968, a kid that trained by himself, that was not obvious.

No. You know? He was one in a million back then. Yeah, so he came down and brought the first set of weights down here to south carolina when he was when he was an athlete they didn't have a weight room are you kidding me so he borrowed a car and drove back up to jersey and brought all of his plates down and he was like can i have a place to lift and he because he was highly recruited they're like yeah you could take a you could take a spot they gave him a room and he built wooden racks to train so and arguably he was the first strength coach ever at south

carolina as a freshman when was this 1968 could you say that he arguably he was the first strength coach ever at South Carolina as a freshman. When was this? 1968. Could you say that he might – is he the first strength coach of all time then? I feel like Boyle was like super close to – Boyd and Al. He has a very similar story. I don't know if he was in the 60s, was he? You said 68?

68. So he was right around the same time. But you had Al – Vermeule. Vermeule. And you had Al Vermeule, and you had Al Miller, and then you had Alvin Roy, who is arguably the first strength coach. Where was that?

I can't remember. Yeah. But I know he precedes Boyd by a little bit. Oh. But, you know, Boyd might have – has some ability to – Yeah. Whatever. But, yeah, no, so Pops was, you know, they gave him.

He's definitely one of. At the Russell House, they gave him a space. I mean, think about the liability of giving a freshman. And building wooden racks. And saying, no, you build them, and we'll give you this room. And so he built the thing, and then he would take the other shot, put it up, and was like, hey, let's go lift. It'll make you throw further.

It'll make you throw further. And so they did that and then when he graduated he uh he was his master's in education but then the first class he he taught at the university was weightlifting so it was the first time that was ever taught at the university level here and then when he became a teacher he actually wrote the weightlifting curriculum for the entire state of south carolina so all the stuff the the gymnastics and the uh weightlifting curriculum for south carolina were written by he wrote both yeah wow how do you know gymnastics uh well because that was members uh stan proddy you remember that yes stan proddy was pops's um he was at south carolina so he went from you remember the video

with all the kids are doing doing that shit? Totally. So he went straight from California. He was Pops' professor at South Carolina. Wow. So he came up with all that. This is insane. I didn't know any of this. Yeah. So Pops' kind of idea was early on for – because none of the districts,

none of the schools could specifically buy enough um uh equipment like uh gymnastics equipment it's expensive so he basically got everyone to chip in he kind of worked the deal where all the schools chipped in and then they were able to to move the equipment around and rotate so everyone got a full set of equipment and he built that system out i see and then built the system out for the weightlifting that went with it because the idea of like hey get people moving get you know all that type of stuff there's all kinds of research makes you smarter now right right now they're all saying but we've known that in 1975 that wasn't necessarily known and then in 1980 um i can't remember if it was nigeria or kenya sent him over to train their

olympic athletes and he had to teach him how to throw shot discus javelin all the track events but also how to do weightlifting programming because they didn't have anything so we have some old pictures of him in this like village like a village dirt village with these dudes clean and jerking this is 1980 awesome so he was there for 30 days during that time and basically built out their whole kind of their national programming wow that's really cool so i get to work with china now it's so weird i'm working i'm going to teach china how to do weightlifting when they have the best way but their their national team doesn't work with their condition coaches so i'm going to go over there don't think i'm not going to track down loo i'm like you're going to talk to

me yeah one of the yeah so sorry that's a weird i remember what the question was but that was kind of well one one thing that pops up in my brain is like uh one of the, yeah. So sorry, that's a weird, I remember what the question was, but that was kind of. Well, one thing that pops up in my brain is like one of the fastest ways typically for like a business to fail is for the son to come in and take it over. Because he didn't do the grind that made it special to begin with. Sounds like he did though. Sounds like your dad made sure you did. Yeah, like what is, how did that process feel? Well, maybe if you were more successful early on. Someone had to turn it into a business.

If we were more successful early on, maybe that wouldn't have been hard. But I came on in 1992 at 15 years old when all my friends did all the cool jobs. The pool and everything. You were in the warehouse. I was chipping BBs and painting and all the you know hard stuff and so that's why i just so like that's what this is you know then did installs and all the other things that went along with it uh and then came on full-time in 99 and the the premise wasn't to grow the business or do anything crazy it was like pops needs help i'm gonna go help dad

uh i was five years in track and field and training at that point so like i love training yeah you know i knew the olympic trials was coming the next year so i was just all in to training and so of course you know being involved in a company that makes training equipment made total sense perfect and for me it was really a competitive advantage because no one else in the industry at that time with the other big companies were actively training for an Olympic event. And they weren't lifting like I was lifting. They weren't loving it like I was loving it. And where I was competing, I was going to all these universities to compete.

Well, of course, I would just stop in and talk with every strength coach, take them out for drinks, and I would just talk training for hours. I'd stay at their house and we'd talk training and so there was like a decade of just training and talking training around the country and just because i was interested in it yeah and then of course i'd come back and go hey i saw this guy doing this thing but he had it on these chairs and it sucked if we make this thing this will work and we made the single leg squat piece with a roller pad yeah well that was just for me to train and because people were doing it a different way they were making these things out of wood i'm like well let's try this or then i saw this guy doing these nordic hamstrings

i was like well there's nothing that does that so i went back to the shop and welded up the poor man first poor man glute ham or the landmine i learned this exercise from judd logan and suzy powell the two two the two Olympic throwers. And they said, we do this thing. We put it in a corner. And I was like, well, I want to do that. I've been putting barbells in shoes for a long time. Shoes, right.

Sure. And it was like, hold on. Well, let's make a universal joint, hook it to something. And then so a lot of that stuff was never intended to sell. It was just, how do I get the competitive advantage over my competitors because i'm undersized i haven't trained as long as they have and i have to learn all the things possible yeah and to get to that level it just happened to work out that i was in a position

to be at a company that we would then put innovative stuff out that was in that the pendulum swings right had i come out of college 10 or 15 years earlier it would have been during the bodybuilding phase and my skill set would not have been needed yeah yeah you know because we did i'd love to hear kind of uh your thoughts on the industry as you've come through because the functional fitness thing as we we kind of talked about had this huge rush and i feel like a lot of where we're at is kind of people took the functional fitness thing so far yeah and then but nobody really connects with bodybuilding but realizing how important that is and then how you guys kind of take wherever it's at right now

of kind of combining all the worlds and i think we're like finding like some new space right i think it's coming back to being strong and getting fit and like let's don't be crazy yeah yeah well i think i would have to almost tie it i mean the pendulum always swings right yeah i mean that that's just a i mean we were when power lifting ruled the roost we were when bodybuilding ruled the roost you know there was a strongman side in there there was all that i have to say social media has changed that a ton because back in the day like training for performance was like you go do that so you can make millions of dollars or go win your game and now that social media is so big everything is so visually stimulating i could see a resurgence back in a different style of bodybuilding because people don't want to just clean 400 pounds they want to look pretty

freaking cool when they take their shirts off too because there's human there's vanity there's all that stuff and then there's the vanity of i want to lift big ass weights so you're getting like the strength and the aesthetics coming back and what does that sound like 1950s and 60s golden age totally right and really the functional stuff it although useful in ways it doesn't look that cool yeah like just you don't want to watch a video of me doing this jump rope right yeah put six plates on and let me dunk it yeah that's pretty bad or or look like pierrot's demon lift like pierrot's and look like him sure that's cool that's cool as crap yeah that iron iron uh iron Man picture of him.

It's historic. It's historic. So I think there's a resurgence of that. You look at the old Pizaranko. I mean, who doesn't want to look? Literally, I was in college, and I had that picture on my wall in college. I saw it over there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But you remember Pizaranko. They were just kind of a weird story. So when he was so strong, they always wanted him to gain weight and become like a super, super heavy, like one of the big boys. Because he was like a, what, 582 clean and jerker at what, at 265 body weight? There's rumors of him actually clean and jerking over 600 is the rumor. But they always said, like, hey, if he got to 330, 340 body weight, like the Taranankos and these huge guys, like, he would put the world record where no one would have ever touched it.

And he goes, but I want to look a certain way. And it was literally a vanity thing. It was the Arnold era. Good for you. The bodybuilding. He was like, I want to look like a superhero. I don't want to look like a big fat guy that happens to be small. That's what Morgan needs to gain weight.

And he's like so, like, he does not want to get fat. Yeah. I'm like, I don't think you're going to get fat. You're 6'1". You're lifting all this weight. Alexi wasn't the greatest looking dude ever. No, he looked awful. He looked awful.

Yeah, and that's the image too many people have of weightlifting. They think it's all Alexi, and it's not. Like the Lou, like Lou Jean-Jean is just jacked. His back. You can look and tell who does weightlifting. If they have those traps in that back, they're a weightlifter. And butt and legs. You've got to have some sort of muscles to stay over the bar.

Outside of the heaviest weight class, everybody's lean. Everybody. Or you're not winning. One of the two because a fat does not move. It does not contract or lengthen. It just sits there. It's really a disadvantage to you. These people who just think eating to get big is going to help you,

it's not going to help you, man. Fat won't just sit there. It'll just weigh you down. I think we're seeing, to answer that, I think people are seeing holistic strength, aesthetics. I mean, you look, if John Grimmick or Tommy Kona walked in the room right now, he would be the guy that we get all the Instagram likes. He has the right things.

He could do a bunch of crazy strength stuff. He looks amazing. And it's not this. I hate to say the body. The bodybuilders got so big to a point where like, okay, you don't even look like a human anymore, and you probably can't do a lot of stuff. And then with that background of you're so dieted down,

you're so this and that, you can barely walk on stage cool that's their sport that's what they've chosen to do but most people that's unattainable nor really desirable yeah yeah you mentioned earlier that you have kind of all these other likes in life from bow hunting um those people when they're doing that at the highest level training is a big part of their life i'd love to hear just kind of some of the inspiration that you get when they're doing that at the highest level, training is a big part of their life. I'd love to hear just kind of some of the inspiration that you get when you're out in the woods or on those trips and just kind of how these different interests play into your vision of creativity and how Sorenex creates. Probably, like you said before, we all have to have a goal that we're going for, whether it's to clean and jerk 300 pounds every year or whatever so i'm 44 but as i get older i realize like there's

certain things that i don't even really want to do anymore i don't want to throw a hammer 80 meters like that's not something that's on my radar to do but i know i have to have a goal in order to train i know i want to train i want to get better at something i want to get better at something tomorrow than i am today and i just have to find out what those things are. They have to interest me. So as I'm getting more into the mountain side of hunting, I've hunted my whole life and everything like that, but the bow hunting public land in the mountains is very grueling, very rigorous.

And I've noticed many times my strength and athletic prowess has helped me a lot, and I've noticed my lack of certain aspects has hurt me yeah and then so i look at cardiovascular cardiovascular or flexibility or different stuff like that and you're like okay if that's a thing that's something we could train for because it's measurable and now i have a goal and now it's like got it maybe this year isn't to squat 600 it's to do x y and z because i know i will be better at this thing i've chosen to do and so that keeps the carrot out in front of me like i could get better what mountains like like when you say mountains like like going into utah wyoming like big mountains like the ones that screw your face like yeah um i was wondering are you talking about north carolina mountains

they're not that bad but you put a pack on me out there that's up oh yeah i mean we were tracking a buck a few years ago in Wyoming, or actually in Idaho. I love Idaho. You know, and it was snow eight, nine inches deep. Teton Mountains. Yeah. And we're tracking him, and you could see the guy I was with, his buddy,

and he's a guide, and he's like, man, every time we see that buck run, you can see the tracks run. He's like, if he was running, we got to run because otherwise we're going to be. Never catch him. Yeah, and we're 7,000 feet and 10 inches of snow.'s no air back on your back right on your back i live at 252 feet elevation and it's like let's go let's go let's go we gotta go literally die doing that yeah and you're just like for miles and you're just like this is so freaking hard and then i look at it go do i quit because it's too hard or i know how to train i know what the expectation level is. I know I need to.

It's like back in the day. Well, you're not going to throw far until you squat 500 pounds. Right. Well, I know what the expectation level is. I could train for that. Yeah. And so now I've got something to train for. I would assume at some point you've connected with Steve Rinella.

He's the guy that does that mediator show, right? Strangely enough, he's one of the few that I have not connected with. Yeah, when him and Rogan talk about training to go on those long hunts i'm like i don't even need to shoot anything i just want to go train and put that like he has the whatever the put the plate on chest plate and on the back and it just goes up and runs and hikes hills and stuff i'm like that's the stuff i want to do crawling yeah and it's just crazy i mean rogan trains is i mean in my opinion rogan's probably the biggest advocate for hunting in the world right now uh because he trains because and he has that type of

i love him yeah they try to cancel him he's like i'll cancel you yeah yeah yeah and just an awesome dude but you got your cameron haynes's your john dudley's your guys like that they're your jocos you know that are just tough, tough dudes. And they're just doing these amazing things. And, you know, I was with Cam. He killed a bear with a bow that I would say was every bit of 300 plus pounds. I mean, it was a monster. It took four of us to get it up.

We were trying to drag it out. And, like, I had to get to hunt. And we're like, we got to get this thing out of the woods. Didn't have time to get all the stuff in. We're like, let's get it out of here. So we're all looking. And I'm like, probably the easiest thing i was like kind of joking i was like well someone could put on their back i was like how about you put on my back kind of joking around

i'm like i wasn't gonna do that and cam is 165 maybe and he's like if i get down can y'all get on my back and i'm thinking this is a joke like this guy's 50 something years old he's an ultra marathon guy like doesn't squat we put that freaking bear on his back and like i'm thinking this is gonna this i'll be surprised if he could squat it up because he doesn't squat doesn't deadlift he put it on his back he was like boom and i and i took a video of it and i'm like this shit's incredible how far did he go he went probably 50 60 yards the first hump put it down gas gassed for a minute. We put it on his back again, and he got it all the way to the truck.

And now we're going through, like, thick, thick stuff, so it's not like you could just run with it. That's a man. And my goal, all I was doing is trying to break brush in front of him so he would have a trail because he was just – Yeah. And he laid it down. He was like, I think my heart's going to explode.

And then, like, two or three seconds later, he's like, all're good i'm just like i can't holy cow you know and then that's you're like okay there are people that could just do things that yeah normal mortals can't no i would have a heart attack for sure well and there's like a there's a different type of mentality when you're in the gym i would imagine i've never been out on any of those long long hunts but um or hunting in general but uh you're in the gym you kind of have this very fixed environment of well that bar weighs 45 pounds that bear could weigh 500 that bear could be 200 it could like no one knows what the bear is going to weigh that you kill yeah and a bear feels like picking up a trash bag full of water they just they just slosh around the pad is long and just there's nothing

to grab on to have you ever picked up like a a human that's like too drunk or passed out you're like how did 200 pounds get so heavy it's the worst it's not regular 200 pounds on a barbell yeah so guys like that they could just go there and i i have a certain romanticism to it because i love the outdoors too and i love like you said a bar is 45 pounds. It's 29 millimeters. This is my perfect bar. I love it. That's cool. Yeah. But then there gets to this side that's like all the variables are variable.

Yeah. Like maybe it's uneven terrain. Maybe your shoe blows out. Maybe this. And you're like, hey, it doesn't matter. Yeah. Or it doesn't matter because you've got to get that ground. Snowstorm's coming.

Snowstorm's coming. Your altitude, your this and that. So there's so many things. And that, for me, it offers a training environment and a challenge that is totally variable all the time and and it does it i love the fact of the outdoors because being in business and being all like as you well know like people could put on something people could posture people could lie people could do people have the ability to do that nature doesn't yeah it's going to do what nature does and if you thrive it's fine with that and if you die it's fine with that they're cool either way it's fine either way and and i i find like a

cool truth to that and go okay so the only variable is can i handle what it does yeah and am i prepared enough and can i put the work in enough and if can't, it's no one's fault but mine. It's not, if the weather drops down and I die of hypothermia, I should have prepared better. Yeah. I have not faced much of that in nature, but I very much view athletics in the same way. If it's like, oh, there's a game, we should play. Yeah. We should find out who wins.

You got to run. Let's just go do it. Run the experiment. I got to run the experiment. I got to. My. Run the experiment. I got to run the experiment. My theory is this. Yeah. Got to run the experiment. Let me ask you about your, like, when I walk into a gym, I know right away,

if you didn't put your name on it, it would not matter. I know this is Sorenix. How did you do that? How did you brand equipment so well that I know it's yours? That's a great question yeah i mean i don't know maybe it's like when you see your railings i can see it comes from here uh intention intentionality or is that a word intentionality being intentional yeah and so that's kind of one of the things that we we harness here and we go we hit all the time and pops again it goes back to what he's, you could always do whatever you want to do. Just have a reason for it. If I ask you why you did it,

you better have had a reason. And so that always, it causes you to have intentional action. Like if you stole the car, don't like it, but at least have a reason you did it. And then we can talk about it. Right. You know? And so maybe that's a bad example. I never stole a car car but so when we're designing something or when we're building something it's never like for show unless the intentionality is for it to look freaking awesome and we realize that's an aesthetic thing or this is a design thing and so kind of what we've always done is like the brand has to the brand dna has to

stay strong has to cut to the bone as we say like you can't just scrape away the top of it and you're like oh that was sore and i see ah but it's just kind of meh yeah no it has to cut to the bone of what you do and if that means building a platform or the railing or you know like we have upstairs i call it the it's the the library i call it this all the stuff that's not on the internet about training. Some of those books are 100 years old. There's some physical culture books. I'd like to take you guys up there. That's the stuff where

you can't have gotten into this in the last year, two years, five years, ten years and collect some of this stuff or have that knowledge base. It has to always be intentional and stay focused on that. When that happens, then it just comes out, right? Makes sense.

Like you see guys, whether it's a training model, whether it's a team, whether it's whatever, you just kind of know, like, that's that person. Like a Louie's done it well. You know what a Westside guy looks like. 100%. 100%. On his way to the grave. Way overrated.

That dude. But very strong. I used to laugh. I'd go, show me someone's shoes, and I could tell you their rep scheme. Totally. If they walk in and they're chucks, I could tell you what their workout probably is today. If they walk in and they're Olympic lifting shoes or whatever they are, I would just laugh. I'd be like, just show me their shoes, and I'll tell you where they live most likely, what's on their playlist.

And I could tell you, like, it's awesome. And it's – You knew the Westside guys when they showed up. They just look a certain way. They look a certain way. And that was from a very strong brand DNA of Louie. Yeah. Right or wrong.

Crazy animals training together. That's what it is. And he did a wonderful job of that. And then there's other gyms and other teams and the New England Patriots or the Yankees or the one, they all have that strong. Or Tampa Bay. Or Tampa Bay. Yeah.

But then it just shows where some of that brand DNA was, right? Yeah. And left. Where it went. Exactly. Yeah. Like Lou is heavily involved in the design of all of his equipment that he sells. How involved are you with like designing?

Yeah, is that like your primary, one of your primary roles here? Yeah, I would say it's either me, my dad, and then some of the stuff is spurned on by a few of my employees, you know, as they talk to a customer. Or they'll kind of say, hey, man, have you ever thought of doing X, Y, or Z? But generally it's stuff that pops or I dream up. And, again, it kind of boils down to if it's the stuff you think about a lot, it's what you do, like whether it's a program, whether it's a whatever. It's like you think about that stuff a lot of times and something happens, right? Totally.

I have one more question. The machine over there, is that the thing that Louis Simmons designed or came up, or did you guys come up with it? Which one's that? It's the one that's got like a hydraulics. That's actually a Cormax machine. That's not ours. We partnered with them.

So what it does, you have a loaded concentric and a free eccentric. So you can throw the bar, and it'll go. It'll drop back down. And you could, with the hydraulics, you could dial in the speed of fall. I saw that. So, like, for jerks, you could literally boom, and then just walk out from under it, and it'll go. Fall back into position.

So your jerk recovery is. You don't have a jerk recovery or or like for us it was like throws wham and now i don't have an eccentric load coming back down so i was able to do snatch throws bench press throws the bench press throws it would be it was huge and then of course you like put a certain amount of weight on you hook a tendo to your velocity sensor unit now i could tell truly what your upper body power from a throw because obviously if you're benching you always have a decentric phase where you're slowing down because you have to or the weight would come out your hand correct and so that allows the weight to come out your hands or a jump squat and sometimes you jump

squat and it goes and he'll fly up and then it just holds there and you're like cool you walk out from under the bar or you have it set where i immediately hear you talk about actual training methodology and things like that how dialed in are you still to like staying up to date on where training's going and then kind of designing things around um the latest stuff not as much as i used to be because it's not what i'm trying to do yeah personally i'm not trying to be as strong as powerful and, and as resilient as I could. So I will have to say it's not as much as it used to be because I've had to become more of a business person. But there's still, I watch what people are doing. I go and still talk to coaches

I've known for 20 years that are still training athletes. And we'll go and have dinner and I'll ask what's happening, what's new, what did you learn in the last year so I'm still very interested in that personally but you know really a lot of the basics are still the basics like there's concentric eccentric isometric there's you know there's different ways of you know making a bar move or not move or different uh you know but one of the biggest things and not to get too weird in my opinion is you know weight lifting isn't necessarily always a you know a muscular thing a lot of it is just a method to tap into a hormonal release right you know and it's just a it's a vehicle for that or even like uh talking with cal cal deets he had a great insight talking about doing some shock shock training with some eccentric loads and basically taking in supplementation prior to doing the shock loads so when the the like doing a drop and so it actually your your soft tissue

would come as become ischemic for a microsecond push out all the the fluid inside of it and when you have that other supplemental fluid in there it would would actually, as it soaks it back up, it soaks it directly infused into the soft tissue. So he was literally using a shock treatment training not to stimulate the muscle but to infuse certain supplements into the tendons and ligaments. So he's talking about like into the ligaments and tendons. Oh, so he's talking about like into the, oh, into the ligaments and tendons. Oh, so he's talking about, um, was it, uh, the fluid, you know, the fluid that's around it and the little bit of fluid that's in it.

But like, if you say, if you take a rope and you make it wet and you hit it like that, you know how the water comes out of it. But what if you did that underwater, say in a pool, you do that. And when it sprays that water out, what does it immediately do? It takes in whatever's around it. So if that fluid's around it, it's chlorinated, you can infuse chlorinated water into that rope by going pop, underwater. Because that's the only way.

Because that's the only method to get it in. The only way that you can get in there. Correct. Because when people don't go, like, if you don't do the ballistics or if you don't do full range of motion, for example, then you never get the, what is the, what's the fluid your spine synovial synovial fluid so even in your joints that's how it gets all the nutrients yes and only certain ways so like when people all all they do is like you know a lot of people will do like parcels and it does specificity wise help them

more but if they never do like full ranges or ballistics the synovial fluid is never released and so right and that's the only way it's never exchanged right it's the only way that that joints can get those nutrients that's the only way so that's why if you don't do it eventually you're going to get hurt right it's not getting nursed right and so that was yeah he was talking to me one day we were doing a there's a certain piece we call the triphasic hammer so it's on our jammer arm and what you do it's a it's a jammer arm on top of a jammer arm. And so you pull it into you and you stop it. And what happens is we have it calibrated where that second hammer has a lag.

So as you pull it down, it's like you pull this down and this side goes whack and claps down on it. So when it does that, it shocks. And so his thing was, you know, 45 minutes or an hour out, I'll bring in bone broth and all these other collagens and this and that. And he goes, all I'm doing is a certain amount of reps to infuse that into my soft tissue. And I'm like, so this has nothing to do with the muscle. He goes, no, it has nothing.

He goes, all it's doing is. And I'm like, now, that's the stuff I'm interested in. Yeah. Well, there is. So talk about box squats, five sets of five. Doesn't really trip the trigger too much anymore. Yeah. It's been there.

But, you know, there's something else to that, too. Like, some of the latest research on hypertrophy is that the faster the eccentric. Remember, I think we talked about it. The faster the eccentric, the more hypertrophy and more hypertrophy of the type two fibers versus type one. Yeah, sure. So, like, he was doing more than he even, you know, realized. Yeah. Yeah.

So, like, designing things like that with Cal when he said, well, I want to do bench press drops. I said, why do you want to do them? versus type one sure so like he was doing more than he even you know realized yeah so like designing things like that with cow when he said well i want to do bench press drops i said why do you want to do them he said well i want to drop it and stop and i said well for what and then that was that thing i said well perfect example how do we come up with something and i said well can we just do this on the on a jammer arm it is much safer you keep your hand on it and then in like 10 minutes we rigged one up and it was like, well, does this do it? He went bang, bang, bang. That does that. And I go problem. Cool. So I wrote a patent for it.

Like literally it was like, that was that. And it was, and then we, of course we played with it and we, how, how long is the lever? How much do you load? Where do you move it up and down the arm? Because then we found out you can move it up the arm and it'll have a different lag pattern, so I could microsecond make it change it. That's so awesome. Like, that's the fun stuff.

Yeah. How many patterns do you have, or have you had in your life? I've been as close to 10 now. Wow. We got another one the other day, but... Is it top secret? Ah, you go, not anymore. Well, it takes forever.

The government knows. Well, it takes forever to get them, so like a year or two so you're like oh cool that one went through gosh that took a while yeah back to work right i just i see too a lot of people's like you know caldeets you see the the uh triphasic handles you know where you do the over i guess you'd say lighten lighten let me say light method yeah some people would say over speed jumps or sure you know So it's just cool to see in this very room so many different thoughts. Well, that's where you start realizing it's not necessarily looking like,

hey, this will sell well. What does this do? All of it is a stimulus, right? What does this piece of equipment help you stimulate to do? Is it redundant? If it's redundant, does it cost less? Is it more comfortable? Is it safer? Is it's redundant, does it cost less? Is it more comfortable? Is it safer?

Is it like, why do it if it's just something that's already been done before unless it solves a problem? On the business side, do you find it difficult sometimes to strike that balance of like, oh, we're solving a problem, but only a professional running back needs it? Of course. So we're going to spend X amount of dollars, and all of a sudden there's 17 people in the country that need it. We used to joke and say all fives of them. Yeah, right. Oh, man, there's some things we make.

Like, this is awesome. You spend all this money doing it, and you go, why even put it out? Like, why do all this stuff and patents and everything when all fives of people will use it? Yeah. And, and that's,

so there's a lot of stuff that we have a big file of stuff. That's like, this will be cool at someday. Yeah. But maybe not right now, or maybe the industry isn't there yet. There's no, what we've noticed with all of our members and stuff following is like

over 80% of them are back in their garages. Correct. And the technology that's coming out for how you can build a garage gym is insane. Like I feel like everyone has focused on that. It's really crazy. Yeah, and really that rig system. That piece that you have over there is like the highest level of importance in my life. What are you pointing at?

It's basically an incline bench that you stand on. The bulldog pad? Yeah. You hook it in. When I saw you guys come out with that, I was like, that solves almost every problem that I have in my garage gym right now. It's an incline bench. You can chest support

fly, chest support row. That single thing is so simple looking. I went, oh my god like that literally solves all of the problems of my training setup that was a thanks that was actually a cool one um uh we actually designed it talking with a customer they said well we want to do more chest supported rows but we don't have room for them and we were just sitting there and i drew it on a whiteboard i was like oh on the backside of a lap machine i think you could do this will this

work and they're like yeah and i came back and i took a piece of cardboard and i cut it out and then i just kept shaving away the cardboard and put it on the rack and shaving it away and shaving away until it worked and then i would literally just put a hole in there pivot off my knife stick another hole in there, wedge it out. And then, like, and I brought all the guys in. I was like, I think this will work. And everyone's like, that's cool. And I handed it to my engineer in the back.

I was like, make it out of steel. And that's how we made it. Honestly, I mean. That's so awesome. Yeah. I want to say, I can't see it. I want to see it. It's right there.

Sticking off the. Yeah, a piece over there. Oh, I see. Yeah. Yeah. But it solves every single problem of, like, almost all of the row variations that you, like, seal rows are so hard. If you don't have a cool piece of equipment that can get the barbell out of the way. And you can't adjust the height because different people's hands.

And then you have. And the dumbbell rows get really tough because you can't extend the scap because you run into the ground like almost every rowing variation gets really to do it the way that you want to do it it gets very difficult correct because of the limitations of the machine and then you guys saw i was like well then we started playing with like the whole design because as it pivots you could if you had the normal holes you you you it changes the the um the degrees too much so then we came up with like the inchworm design which i think were the first people to do that which was a whole design that was all connected wow so then you could have micro loading with the holes so you have it flat you could have this you could have that and then just

we have a new thing coming out for it soon beautiful that's it'll change the game even more i'll show you when you when you're looking at the engineering because on top of not only do i think that thing solves so many problems but it's so simple how much time do you guys spend coming up with the greatest idea in the world and then going devil's advocate scrap it all how do we simplify this thing because it's it's got we got to chop pieces away generally what we do is that is because for years it was here's a cool simple idea and we would soar an exit and maybe that meant making it too cool yeah which would drive the price up and like because it was like hey you know but what if people want to do this we'll make sure it has that feature what if people want to do this make sure and then you would end up with this thing

that you're like okay that's way too expensive it has a million things it does and then so we kind of now our thought process is make sure it does the one thing better i think dan john he's called the killer app make sure it does one thing better than anything on the market and if it could do a second or third order effect cool but it better do that one thing better than any other solution. Solves the one problem. The one thing. Because otherwise, if you have something that's just a redundancy, what's already on the market, then it's just a fashion show. We have to tell the story about-

Do you have anything to do today, by the way? That's what I'm saying. No, this is fun. I want you to tell the story about how you made the track tape. We somehow got lost. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah.

So I was going to go to Appalachian State. Yeah. I always wanted to go there because as a high school kid, I went skiing. I was like an outdoor bum. It's a great school, by the way. Yeah, it was a great school. And I was into lifting, but I knew I wasn't going to be anyone in lifting. That's what I thought.

Yeah. So I wanted to go to App State. I could grow a beard. I could fly a fish. I could ski. This was going to be great. Yes or that's what i thought yeah so i wanted to go to app state i could grow a beard i could fly fish i could ski this was going to be great you can yeah you know so uh so i went to apply for that applied late got in but they said you'd come in the in the in the spring semester said okay well south carolina was my second choice i'd already that was my backup school was right here in town i'll go to south carolina for a semester that'd be great so i show up and for like the first six days i you know i'm an 80s movies kid so like i saw all the party movies and that's what i thought college was that you just it was like revenge of the nerds basically

so like so for like the first six days that's what it was like i was just a drunken eater just riding around my bike and then like so i think it was like, I can't remember what it was, like a Monday or Tuesday. So I knew I was like, all right, I need to lift weights. I need to like get back to something that's not ridiculous. Being a human. Yeah, being a human. So I called my dad.

So I knew the weight room they had like for the regular students was just terrible. It was just dungeon horrible. But I knew we had some like our gear at the football weight room. so i called in fair i was like hey pops gonna get a workout in today i know you know this strength coach down there is there a way that i could get in to work out on our stuff we had cool i mean i still have pride i want to listen lift on our stuff and again it's 1994 so there wasn't a lot of like oversight back then yeah i remember it, I remember it. Yeah. And so he goes, yeah. So he calls a coach down there. He said, yeah, sure, have him come by.

But after the athletes are done, come on by. He could get a workout. I'm a 17-year-old kid. I don't listen to what time he says. So I just show up when I'm done with lunch. I'm like, I'd like to work out now. So I just cruise my way into the weight room. And if anyone's been in a college weight room, 2 p.m. on a Monday is like

Katie bar the door. Everybody and their dog is there. At the time, South Carolina had one weight room, so every single athlete had to use one weight room. That's what we had at Appalachia. Yeah. She would have gone out, but it would have been the same thing. It would have been the same thing.

Well, and now you're talking August, so no one knows who each other are. It's the first week of school. And so I just cruise in. You just walk in the weight room like no one says anything. That's the way to do it, number one. Yeah. You just walk in. Anyone wondering, that's what you do.'s the way to do it, number one. Yeah. You just walk in. Anyone wondering, that's what you do.

That's how you do it. This is how you do it. Walk in. I'm like, hey, platform's open. Yeah. Boom. Start doing some cleans. I was like, this is a good time.

I'm like, yeah, LECO bar is sweet. This is awesome. Then I'm watching some guys doing some vertical jump testing. I'm like, god, that's badass looking. I was like, that's kind of like Rocky IV shit. That's cool. And I always sucked in high school, so they never had tested me in that stuff so i was like stood in line like very for scum right just stood in line this is awesome so they're like i get up there they ran and then boom 29 and a half i was like cool they're like that's pretty good i'm like

right on and then they they what's your name and i'm like, right on. And then they, they, what's your name? And I'm like, how the hell did they ask you my name? They write this on the sheet and they hand it to me. I'm like, thanks. So I put it in my gym bag. I go back, finish my cleans, walk over,

start benching. I was like, oh, cool, they're doing body fat testing too. That looks awesome. So I walk up, I'm standing there

and I'm standing in line. This is so great. And there's a guy sitting there, you know, with the calipers, of course, in the office. And I walk up and it's, to speak of the office, with the calipers, of course, in the office. And I walk up.

And to speak of the office, it's the office in the same weight room from the program. Oh, nice. Remember the movie? That was our weight room. That had only been filmed two years before, so it looked exactly like that. Awesome. Yeah. So I walk up, and he's like, all right.

And he's like handing my shoes. Like, what sport? And I'm like, ah. You know, I'm putting my shirts up. And I was like, probably track and field. You know, I'm putting my shirts up. And I was like, probably track and field. You know, I'm just making up shit. And he was like, oh, what events? I'm like, freaking do the caliper, man.

Like, let me go. Stop talking to me. And he's like, I'm about to get busted. I'm totally getting busted. I'm realizing I'm having to weave a tail. So I'm like, well, you know, shot putting discus. He goes, oh. I was like, yeah, I was thinking about walking on in the spring.

It was total bullshit. And he was like, oh, I said I wasn't very good in high school, but, you know, I'm thinking about walking on. I'm like, all right, that'll be enough information. Just stop talking to me. We'll be good. He goes, oh, how far did you throw? And I'm like, I threw 44 feet and 132 in the discus.

He's like, that's not very good. I'm like, yeah, I know. I told you. I just told you. He goes, what did you get the state meet? I was like, I didn did you get the statement i was like i didn't make it to the state meet that doesn't make it to the state meet he goes okay so i actually did all my stuff i was 7.2 never forget and you were 7.2 yeah that's a lean tall dude yeah it's like yeah like olive oil and uh so he goes okay well hey my name is larry judge i'm the throws coach at the university

of south carolina and i'm like you've got to be kidding me you're like my life sucks right now on campus i could have bullshitted you're the only guy i could you know you could not and he goes so you're coming on the track team i was like uh yeah coach i'm coming out i'm thinking like get me out of here let me finish finish my workout. Not in this anymore. He goes, okay, practice starts tomorrow at 2 o'clock. And I was like, it's August. It's a spring sport. He goes, son, you're in college now.

He's like, it's a year-round deal. I was like, okay, well, I'll try to make it. He goes, if you're on the team, you will make it tomorrow. And I was like, gotcha. I just turned around and walked out. And I, like, kind of finished my work, just some lap pulls and stuff. And I kind of went back to my dorm room. I didn't have a cell phone, so I called dad.

He's like, how's your work? I was like, I think I'm on the track team now. And he's like, what? Because backwards, Pops was a super highly recruited disc thrower at the University of South Carolina. So he's like, you don't have to do this for me. He was like, you suck. Yeah, he's like, you're terrible.

You threw 70 feet less than I did in high school. And I'm like, yeah. He goes, what are you going to do? I go, I guess I'll show up and see what it's about. I throw as hard as I can. And I just showed up, and I'm like this little skinny dude, and all these guys are sitting there. I'm like, gosh, these are the biggest people I've ever seen in my life.

I'm like, are you a fifth-year senior? He's like, no, I'm a freshman. The other guy's like, I'm a freshman. I'm like, oh, my God. I'm so out of my league. he's like no i'm a freshman another guy's like i'm a freshman i'm like oh my god i'm so out of my league he's like damn it this is so bad this is gonna be a long day and uh coach judge asked me he's like well how far are you throw the discus i told him he's like that's not very good i'm like yeah i get it he's like well how far have you thrown a javelin i was like never seen one he's like we need a jab thrower right now you're more built like a jab guy i was like okay, how far have you thrown a football?

I was like, never played. He's like, how fast can you throw a baseball? I'm like, never played. He goes, can you just put your arm over your head? Are you breathing? How do you do this? Yeah, yeah. And he's like, I was like kind of being an ass.

I was like, I throw a rock pretty far on the lake. And he's like, that's going to have to do. And so literally. This is great. So literally. I's going to have to do. And so literally. This is great. So literally. I just got to have to do. I started training five days a week, throwing five days a week, lifting five days a week, and then another two days of javelin.

Let me ask you. When you first started, when you started throwing there, were you the same as you were in high school, or had you already taken this leap a little bit? I mean, maybe a hair better just because I had a summer. Yeah. But I sucked. I was terrible.

I mean, I was like a 100-foot college discus guy and like a 34-foot college shot guy. What about javelin? Were you good at that? Javelin? No, I mean, I just picked it up. I was like, this is how you do this thing. Weren't you primarily a hammer thrower, though? Yeah. I mean, like, I just picked it up. Like, I was like, this is how you do this thing. And then.

Weren't you primarily a hammer thrower, though? Yeah. So he was like, well, but we had to train everything. So it was like I was bad at everything because I sucked. And then it was just, and we got in, he started training. And, you know, he totally and everyone totally assumed I'd be there like a week. You know, there's no reason I should be there. I wasn't recruited. Everyone. I didn't, there's no reason I should be there. I wasn't recruited. Everyone, I didn't realize that, like, people were good there.

I always remember in practice, I'm like, hey, it was something about like an inter-squad meet was coming. I was super pumped about it. And my fifth-year senior was like, this doesn't matter. I'm like, what do you mean it doesn't matter? It's a meet. He goes, the only thing that matters is NCAAs and SECs. And I was like, what are those?

He's like, damn, man. He was like, SEC is the conference. I'm like, conference. Got it. Is that good? He's like, yeah, you want to be ready for that? I'm like, okay. He's like, but you're redshirting this year.

You won't go to that. I'm like, okay. Like, I didn't do nothing. I'm like, NCAAs, what does that do? And he's like, that's the National Collegiate. I'm like, got it. I was like, do I get to go to that? He's like, you're not good enough i'm like okay dang it and he was and i was like i was like someone said

you were an all-american and he was like yeah two-time all-american what does that mean he's like that means you're good at the ncaa i'm like that sounds great i mean i throw it a lot i was like and then i just remember thinking like i want to be one of those because that sounds like something i've heard of yeah wait there's a medal at the end of this? This is awesome. There's, like, I've heard all American means good stuff. Now this story's about to turn cool. At least the only direction you can go is up.

Oh, no, that's the best part. It's like anything I do, I'm going to be better. So I show up, and so, like, of course, at first I'm, like, the guy that had to go get all the water from the training room because we trained on off-site plays. And I had a car, so I had to go pick up all the girl throwers that didn't have cars that were actually good there you go and they're like bert needs to go pick up and so i'm like the like the taxi guy that then had to go by the train room and like they were just figuring get free labor out of me fine and that's fine you're the intern you do the dumb shit right and then um but you know then i started lifting and then that was weak i think

going into i remember i had a 250 clean which isn't terrible um i had a 320 back squat maybe a 385 deadlift and a 235 bench no i don't know i was5. I couldn't bench 225. Wow. You had a ways to go. 172 body weight. Were you this tall? One inch shorter than I am now. How tall are you? 6'4"? 6'3". Basically this, but

a lot smaller. I was just like, alright. I went to lift and coach was like, no. Don't train with the men. You train with the women until you're stronger than them. I'm like, okay. So we got on the rack. Demoralizing. But I didn't realize the two women he put me on the rack with were Don Ellerbee

and Lisa Misapeka, the number one and two hammer thrower in the nation. So you're like, I'll show these girls. And it took me months and months and months to get as strong as them. And I remember the day I did it, I squatted 385 for six, and that beat Lisa by five pounds. You're like, thank you, God. But it was just like, you better freaking bring it, because these girls are, I mean, Lisa and Dawn both benched 225 for five.

You know, snatch 200 pounds. By the end, especially, that's a beast. Snatch 200 pounds for a 6'3 woman in the 90s? Yes, even, even like any time. Any time a girl's over 200. Yeah, and not like down. I'm talking just roop, you know. Power snatch, yeah.

Savage. But that was the people I was around. And all the dudes were super strong because they were all like high-end guys. And that's just what I thought. But going back to your gym was, if you can't clean three blues, you're not even trying. Right. You might as well just freaking not show up yeah right i'm not even discussing your name yeah and i was the guy

you just didn't get his name discussed i was just a shitty dude until it was like i came at 172 and i left that semester at 199 i'm like oh and i remember going home and that was that time we're talking about like what people notice yeah and I remember going home at high school and people were like, you're on steroids. And I just remember, like, no, I'm just eating all the time and I'm lifting. Yeah. And this is cool. But thank you for saying that. Yeah, because now girls are like, you're kind of buff.

And dudes are like, dude, you got super big. And they all, like, they didn't. And I'm like, this is fun. Yeah. And then, you know, you start, the weights go up. And then every every four weeks that's the drug yeah that's the drug that's the addiction and then you go every four weeks our cycles were made where every four weeks we did a rep max so you got to literally test every four weeks yeah and my life revolved around every four weeks i got to cash out and it was just like i get to do this again and training wasn't i got to it was i get

to yeah and it was like i get to show out every four again. And training wasn't I got to. It was I get to. Yeah. And it was like, I get to show out every four weeks what I put in. And I'm going to make it a point that I tried harder than everyone else did this four weeks. And I want to have the biggest jump. And I remember one time my jump went from, it's been a while. I'll get it wrong. But I remember it was like, I went from like a a 3 30 for like eight i think or no six in the squat and then i was supposed to we were going to like eights maybe or something and so i was only

supposed to like 10 pounds less but i was supposed to get one extra rep and i remember in a four week period of time i was supposed to get like seven or eight and i got like 14 or 17 oh yeah and i remember literally like crying as i'm lifting and doing like five more because i was just like i'm leaving everything here i want to tell these people i'm here they can't run me off i will be as good as they are one day like yeah and it was like this emotional experience like fuck being shitty yeah i'm just gonna go go go and i remember like being done with this most euphoric feeling and it was just fantastic and then then when it caught then it was in yeah then it was just and then we had our inner squad me and i i won the javelin which is funny now because i

was the only one that trained it but even the guys that were good athletes i happened to beat them and i'm like oh i could be then they were like you're the jab guy and I'm like, oh, I could be. And then they were like, you're the Jav guy. And I'm like, I'm a guy. Like I didn't have an identity prior to that. I'm not the Wonderboy guy anymore. Yeah, I'm like, you actually think I'm good at a thing. And then that year I ended up kind of picking up the hammer, made junior nationals. I'm like, I went to a national meet.

Nationals is kind of like an NCAA thing you're talking about. And that means I'm on the right track. And I went there and I met like Susie Powell, who later went to the Olympics. I met John Godina. I met like all these people. The dudes. And I'm walking around going, I read about you guys.

And I'm with you now. And I'm with you now. That's it. And I'm here. And I'm like, oh, this is a thing? And then it was like, you can't pull me away from this because now I want to be your guys. I want like to what I feel when you walk in the door i want people to feel that when i walk in the door yeah and um

that's how it starts that's how it starts man that's how it starts and i remember a couple years later i'm standing on the in the in the atlanta dome they're standing rca don't rca whatever one's the one that lana and i'm oh that year so i watched lance deal break the world record in the 35 pound weight as a little 18 year old freshman i'm watching i'm oh that year so i watched lance deal break the world record in the 35 pound weight as a little 18 year old freshman i'm watching i'm like that's amazing because i was throwing 50 feet at the time he threw 85 feet good oh and i'm watching it i'm like there's incredible that anyone could do this he got his i got his autograph and everything else and two years later i'd thrown like 66 and made nationals and i remember standing there and i was down on

the same floor two years later competing with him he standing there and I was down on the same floor two years later competing with him. And he was there and he was like, Oh, nice of you to make it. And I was just like, I'm not totally choked, but it was just like the guy like knows.

And he and I are friends now and stuff like, but it was like the same thing. It's like the first time you get to compete with cones and he knows who you are. And you're like, I'm on this track. I see a path. I see a path to success.

And the variable is just a shit ton of effort. And if it just becomes effort, then I know I could win because I could just give more than other people could. You out-effort them. Yeah, just out-effort them. And then you start going, well, now I could train smarter and do these little things that help competitive advantage and stuff like that. I can eat right. I can sleep right. Yeah.

And it was like, okay, well, at Christmas, I mean, Christmas and summer was our goal was always, you know, you throw, you throw, you peak, you hit this, everyone rebuilds over the summer, they come back. Our goal was is you better come back throwing further the first day of the school year than you did leaving. Yeah. Okay. And it was like that was what we're going to do. We're all going to be strong. We're all going to be throwing further because we day of the school year than you did leaving yeah okay and it was like that was what we're gonna do we're all gonna be strong we'll all be throwing further because we

knew everyone else wasn't and we go if we do that in the two or three months of the summer you add that up over five years i just got a year on you yeah total that's brilliant and that was what we did and we just had this you become master of the mundane. Yeah, into this super hard boom, boom, boom. Yeah. And then my senior year, I got my fourth All-American that year, was voted team captain, which is super cool, and broke the SEC record in my last throw. You guys hear what just happened?

Yeah. Do you understand? He went from being like Forrest Gump, as he said, to team captain. I feel like there's no way that that story hasn't repeated itself multiple times in your life where you just go, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing here right now. Oh, totally. Let's go.

All I know is I'm on top. Well, yeah, and the key is to not. I mean, in my opinion, there isn't a top, right? I totally agree. That's the place you don't want to be. You're just like, all right, and then these dudes, and then we brought in some other athletes who were Olympians, and so you're around those that's the place you don't want to that's the place you're just like all right and then these dudes and then you know we brought in some other athletes who were olympians and so you're around those guys all the time and kind of was that movie the edge where he says like what

one man could do another can do yeah when you're going after the bear and one of my exactly one of my roommates was the highest recruited shot putter in the nation in north america and i got to sit and train with him every single day now he's still a super freak I didn't have his genes right but I still went I could train as least as hard as he can right and when I realized he's still a mortal I realized I have a chance yeah and I go okay you're not this person that lives on Mount Olympus right I realized that we do the same shit and he bleeds red just like he's red and he was just gifted some more. But I could breathe that same air. You also realize it's not just like, oh, they have that extra little genetic potential. But they also work harder than everyone else too.

I think that is something that any time I've ever trained with anybody that's like a next level human being, it's like, oh, yeah, you might be bigger and genetically stronger and all of this stuff. But the way you live your life also is so dialed in and perfect. And like you live by this standard that nobody even else knows exists. Yes. Nobody's not willing to go there. They're just not willing to do those things. Yes.

And I found my observation was in college was the people with a super high talent level generally have a low effort level. People with a low talent level have a high. And I literally graphed it like at 18, 20 years old. I was like, that's why most people end up in the middle because they intersect in the middle. And I was like, and there's very few people, if they're low talent and low motivation, they just suck and they never get on the bus.

Yeah. Yeah. The very few that are high talent and low motivation, they just suck and they never get on the bus. Yeah. The very few that are high talent, high motivation, they'll end up with the Olympics. They do extraordinary things. They'll end up with Olympic rings. That's LeBron. Michael Jordan, LeBron. Yes, those people.

And we had Brad Snyder. We had Terrence Trammell. We had the Barber twins. We had, like, you know, one girl was there. She was 24-time All-American, Division I. Wow. But, okay, first day she showed up. She didn't run the year before in college.

She was a cheerleader that year. Of course. She showed up the first day, 14 wide grip pull-ups as a freshman. Dropped down and just kind of was like, oh, this is cool. And even as a kid, I'm like, that's a different human. Freaks are cool. Is she coming out of gymnastics too then if she's in cheerleading? Doing that many pull-ups?

I feel like that's a gymnast right there. I feel like she's had some play. But multiple Olympic medals later. But growing up around those people and you see them every day and you're like, okay, the ones who train really, really hard, they get there. But no one's magic. Everyone has struggles. Everyone has weaknesses.

Everyone has this. And then you go, well, that doesn't make me any different. I think there's kind of a part of a delusion that just thinks I can't. Like whether my genetics allow me to or not, you just go, well, shit, that guy did it. And I don't consider him much better than me. He probably was. but you just go sure i can do it if you're assuming which one you are if you're really talented just assume you're not and just go work really hard sure go wrong just defaulting to working hard all right and then in

business you're like well that's so-and-so company so-and-so this then people are like dude you were just like this little mom and pop father son kind of cute little business and like until you believe you're not you're just not there yeah you know i had i used to have a thing on my computer that's it was like uh you know i will prepare and one day like it was it was abraham lincoln thing but but i it kind of got me thinking i was like there is no success there's no failure there's just delayed success i haven't won comma yet yeah and so it was it was always that it was like hey we didn't win today but i'm gonna yeah i'm gonna because i'll keep playing the game after you've decided to outlast everybody yeah that's fine do you feel like that's a natural thing for you to kind of rise to the the

level of those around you like you came as a in as a nobody yeah you're around some ncaa you know champion type type guys and then you just leveled up to their level 100 i take a lot in for my my um environment and so i get very inspired by my environment the that's why i pick the people that i hang out with the most because i realize they have a very big influence on me and then my goal is to hopefully live the code enough where maybe i could be a positive influence on them yeah but i also just realized like i'm good at seeing something being done and trying to like i can learn through other people's mistakes yeah i could do that pretty well so i go okay he did this and got mistakes or or or successes i i kind of see this path yeah do you remember when you like feeling like you were the asset

versus hoping you fit in? Yeah, kind of a little bit. I've always had a chip on my shoulder because I sucked in athletics as a kid. I remember one of my best friends who ended up playing football at Clemson, he told me one day, he's like, you are the worst athlete i've ever met like he didn't realize like how powerful those words were because he was like this athlete sport guy and i was like this dumb ass kid with like a slingshot you know i was just like this kid right is it natural for you to want to like prove him wrong i feel like that's travis like someone tell you that you'd be like fuck you i'm gonna do it

100 yeah and i mean part to the to the extent on in the summer times we would come home when he come home from clemson to like train i'd make sure that he trained with me because i wanted him to get better but i wanted to subliminally show him every day that i was you wanted this i just wanted like i just wanted to show you in our six-year-old selves that like i was I was the athlete, and you're going to watch how good I get. Yeah. And, yeah, I mean, is that a selfish, egotistical way? Yeah. You got to have it to be great, though. I think it is.

You know, there's just things that, you know, yeah, that you just – and, you know, living in the shadow of a Richard Soren, you see amazing things. And there was times as a kid you're like, that's Superman. I can't do that. Like, people can't do that i'm not that caliber see i constantly tell my kids they're going to be way better than me i tell them every day almost man you're going to be so much better than your dad i want them to know sure that that's part of the process they're going to be better than me you're going to be better yeah i mean you said

living in the shadow of your dad but i'd imagine your dad's still very proud of you right yeah oh yeah oh yeah but you certainly as a kid or as a you want to make your dad proud and and then especially in something that not only that he values but also you value as well and um yes there's always been like this i wouldn't say tension but there's always been a you know we still compete although we've probably lifted together very few times. I can see that. It's too competitive? What do you mean?

Well, I mean, like, what stuff he was doing. When I started getting strong, I had my workouts that I needed to do to throw far, and he was doing the stuff he wanted to do. And sometimes we'd work in on a set, but we didn't have a lot of days where we just trained together. Because, honestly, like, he's a competitive dude. Like, he would have run my ass into the ground. My boys would much rather train with one of my – Matt. honestly like he's a competitive dude like he would have run my ass into the ground my boys would much rather train with like one of my matt yeah coaches my boys and they love it when i coach

them they get super mad yeah yeah they don't hear their dad yeah they don't need to coach and a dad yeah they don't want to hear it from me you know so yeah it's it's uh yeah i i need i've thought about their day i need to do it more because i know he's not gonna be around forever and i want to make sure that i get to share a bar with him a lot of times. Yeah. But, like, when I was strong and training hard, he still would have been one of those, like, hey, let's do dumbbell rows. And then, like –

Try to add – And then we'd be doing, like, 180-pound dumbbell rows. And I'd be like, what are we doing? And he'd just be, rawr, just beasting them. This is what we're doing. Just because he can, you know. I think that's – Do you get to lift a lot with your kids these days? How are they again uh they're they're four seven and nine so i mean they play in the

gym and mess around and they're not really in it in it and i wanted to make sure i know they have the capability genetically to do it you know my wife is tall athletic person so like they're gonna be all right yeah well bred yeah so i don't i don't i don't worry like i better make them do something i'd rather them just move a lot understand work i'd rather them do menial bs work in the yard that just teaches them how to do things that suck and embrace that and to be okay with it versus like they have to do the perfect technique and this and that together right because i i i think, personally, I think that my kids are too soft. Yeah.

My daughter is just. I worry about that a lot. Like, I talk about that with my friends. You know, like, I actually talked with Smelly Bell, about Mark Bell, about this very thing. Yeah. I'm like, are we creating. When we interviewed him, he was very insightful about it because his kids play a lot. I'm like, are we.

Yeah, I know they're different. They're not. They're not into it at all. I'm like, I don't want to create a weaker version of me. That's doing them a disservice. The bad part is that success generally breeds that. I know. That's what I fear is as we get more successful personally, finances come with it.

I'm like, man, they never had to worry about like, and I told her all you have to think about is playing. I actually always wonder this with people that are, have kind of followed this path of chasing barbells. But like, I feel like many of them at some point in time were like, I'll just sleep in the gym. This is just where I'll live my life. Did, I mean, there isn't a ton of money and equipment in the early stages, and you're developing this brand. Was there a time where you're just like, who cares what happens?

I just have to go follow this path. Yeah, because I would rather, I mean, in those times in my life, I'd rather seen a steel ball go far or a big weight go up than anything, really. And we never came from money. So I didn't know, like, you need to be able to drive this or do that or whatever. It was like, Hey, if you could pay your bills and enjoy what you're enjoying and, and, you know, kind of how I always almost saw it as a hack really, because I thought about it. I said, well, what do most people do in life? They go to a job that they hate or they dislike or tolerate at best to make money to get taxed on it,

that they have less of that money when they get it, and then they have to pay a bunch of bills. And so maybe one day there's a little percentage of that money that they get to do what they want to do. Eventually, when they have enough time to do what they want to do to go enjoy their life. They wouldn't even want to do it by the time they get there, though. That seems like a very long, convoluted way of working to get to do what you want to do to go enjoy their life. They wouldn't even want to do it by the time they get there, though. That seems like a very long, convoluted way of working to get to do what you want to do and be happy. And I go, or I could make – Go backwards.

I'm doing it on the front end, son. I can make half to two-thirds that much money. Yeah. But get it on the front end. I've actually never heard this analogy. It's so good. And get to do it on the front end, and it's's tax free. I don't have to wait for it. And if I'm really good at it, maybe this lump sum becomes larger than it would have been. Yeah. And so that's honestly what I tell some of my people when we're, you know, interviewing or whatever. I was like, you know, you might not make

zillions and zillions of dollars, but if what you want to do in life is this you're mainlining that yeah and then what you get paid for sweet you get paid for some stuff 100 that's what i've always that's how i see it me too i've always i like if you said okay you're gonna work until you're 70 then you get to chill i'm out then i'm shooting myself now because i want to experience life i want to while i'm young while you have the juice to it. Yes. Until I cannot move anymore, I'm going to experience life. I'm going to go see these places I read about. Sure. I want to go to Iceland.

We talk about that. I want to go see these huge Thor and all these huge people. Yeah. I don't want to read about it. I want to go see it. Yes. And then the hack is, how do you make your skill set valuable enough to go do the crap that you want to do in life? And maybe there's a little bit of money left over to do a secondary thing.

Maybe you like making kites. Great. You can buy kites. They're perfect. But I ain't going to go through all this process to get to the maybe get to do what I want in life. When I don't even want to do it then. I'm going to be like, I'm just trying to die. Just trying to die.

I don't want to. I want to do it when I feel great. I want to do it then like i'm gonna be like i'm just trying to die you know i'm just trying to die like i don't want to i want to do it when i feel great and like i want to travel like i knew at eight years old i remember walking down what we would call it you know it was an orchard we had an orchard full of apple trees i'm by myself we grew up in the middle of nowhere it's it's like 600 acres of land in the deepest parts of the mountains of North Carolina. I remember being by myself and being like, I love it. It's pretty, but I cannot stay here my whole life. I've got to go see these places I'm reading about. And if I don't, I will die.

Right. And I knew that moment. And one of the choices would have been go work in a local store or a factory. Yeah, that's what we thought. Sweat through life your whole life to maybe once a year for a week get to go to a place that would be cool if you could save up enough money to do it. I know a lot of the world does that, but that sounds horrible. That's hell. Horrible.

That is my personal hell. You say you're going to stay here until you're 70. You're going to work in this factory. I mean, it's beautiful in the mountains, but I love where I'm from. Sure. But that would be, you might as well shoot me right there. I would turn into a horrible person. Or figure out a way that if you love the mountains

and you still want to do all that stuff kind of like we've done here, we've created a business that allows amazing people, because that's part of what I enjoy doing, is talking with amazing people where they come to us and we show them a value so we get to do what we like to do, still make a little bit of a living from it, and then maybe you love those mountains and maybe build a training center up in those mountains

where people come and visit you. You get to win it all. But you've got to be smart enough to put it together, and you've got to work harder than everyone else around you to make it actually work. Yeah, you've got to have something that you can give to people. Yes. That solves something.

Are you guys having Summer Strong this year? Not sure yet. Maybe. Maybe. We're doing Winter Strong this weekend, and that's going to be kind of a pilot to see how it works we're doing actually covid testing prior to and if you don't do it within 36 hours we're doing it uh at the event before you get an entry yeah wait what exactly are those events though so winter so summer strong is kind of the how would i put it

some people have said it's like a TED Talk, it's a conference, it's a family reunion group therapy session. It's a lot of things. It's weird. So what it actually is, it's like a very honest weekend. Yes, oh, yeah. No lifting meet as a part of that? Well, we do have an off competition.

We have a PR party, deadlift, and squat. And it's literally we'll have four bars on the platforms, bars going up, and it's one of those. This is a fun thing. Get in where you fit in. Get in where you fit in. And if you want to just go for a PR snatch, and that's the bar that's rolling, you snatch until you can't snatch it,

and then someone's going to be deadlifting it as a warm-up. But it only goes up. It goes up. The bar goes up. That's awesome. That's all it is. I mean mean there'll be two or three bars here two three bars here and the bars will go up and then after a while there'll be like one or two dudes staying on the platform and i mean the year i deadlifted six i was like 10th or 12th in the stack i mean you're like some studs that's a lot of i mean there was like two dudes deadlifted over eight and this

isn't in a real comp. It's just like – it's like holy cow. But then we'll have squats and stuff like that. And we'll give some prizes for it. But it's not like – it's for nothing, but let's all get together and do it. Because you get a – We love doing it. I mean, I got to share the platform with my 68-year-old dad

and my 6-year-old son the same day. Yeah. That's awesome. You know, i mean that's awesome you know and then that's the cool that might be a once in a while you might not ever get to do that we have a picture of it it's all three of us lifting the same day oh that's bad and you're like that's what you do it for yeah you know and my four year old son got to hop in with air and like and then you know anybody and some people they might just train up for for summer strong they're like i'm gonna pull a big dead every year at summer strong and and that's what I'm going to do.

That's cool. But for the other 18 hours or whatever for the weekend, it's presentations, and there's all this kind of different stuff going on and breakout sessions and whatever. They have some amazing people coming. Yeah. It's super fun. I met Matt Vincent there.

That's where I met him. We've been friends ever since. Yeah, we've got to get you to speak on here i would love to oh yeah so it's just kind of we just pull interesting people that we get to and live in this life yeah get to pull them in and say hey you have an interesting story but we build it um kind of like a movie or like a uh i kind of see like a story in our heads where you don't always have the same like it would be very boring if it's all power lifters or all olympic lifters or all crossfitters or whatever so you build it where you kind of know emotionally where it's going to go or you try to you can't do everything yeah but

we build the weekend where you know this guy's going to bring this this guy's going to bring us up and down and up and down and then you have a tate fletcher talk and then you have a judd logan talk and then you have a laura zara and people like why did you bring us up and down and up and down. And then you have a Tate Fletcher talk. And then you have a Judd Logan talk. And then you have a Laura Zera. And people are like, why did you bring the girl from Naked and Afraid? And then you hear her story. And you're like, your mind's blown. Or you bring a Cameron Haynes.

People are like, why are we bringing a bow hunter guy? It's like, well, let's let him talk. Let's find out. And it all boils down to strength of character, strength of person, strength of purpose. It all comes down to strength and just strenuous strength of purpose it all comes down to strength and just strenuous life and living that code like you talk about it's the people who live the code not a number associated with their name like oh he was a thousand pound squatter okay cool thousand pound squatter there better be more than that yeah just because you can stand up a lot of

like 10 of those now so what makes them yeah and so that's you know and i'm very fortunate to be able to meet a bunch of very interesting people and part of it is just the people you're like gosh i really want to hear his story or i know his story i want 600 other people to know his or her story yeah and so that's what summer strong becomes and then there's going back to like the york picnic days we cook out we do the whole thing and just allow people to fellowship with one another but intentionally we build it where there's no specific group um here's a good example so you might have a navy seal you might have an olympic shot put champion you might have a power lifting what i found is if you have all navy sealsALs in the room, it ain't a good deal.

Yeah. Because everyone's flexing on each other. It's all power lifters. Everyone only sees what is your total. Yeah. If you're a shot putter, it's like always happens, right? Right. So you build this competitiveness that you don't get a free-flowing information and actually to meld together.

But if you get everyone who's, if you're in this room, you are successful and you are someone that could easily be on stage right now, but you have a different skill set than you, well, then you're going to listen. Yeah. Because you go, I'm not competing with you. I want to know what you do because you're very successful and you're an extraordinary person. You're just a different extraordinary person as me. So now we can figure out how to work together and talk because i'm not trying to beat you right now yeah and that's when you kind of pull that together you you come up with a really interesting chemistry with people um that we found and as we found that the recipe works i love that that's cool i could go for another hour bevin here we are um where can people find you summer

strong sorenx sorenx yeah sorenx sorenx.com, Bert Soarin' on IG, Soarin' X on IG. We have also Soarin' X Outdoors if you're kind of outdoorsy. All social media stuff is so awesome these days. It's kind of crazy. We have Soarin' X Squattober. If you've ever done Squattober, that was something that Aaron Ausmus and I came up with about six, seven years ago. It crushes. Yeah, it's the world's largest squat party so um

that we have deadcember which is another fun event and again it's that's more recent right deadcember we've done it for five years or so and the whole point of it really isn't it's just to make people work to bring people together and to say hey honestly i don't care what you squat or don't squat i don't really care yeah Are you getting better? Can you stick with something for 30 days? Are you going to be supportive to the group of people around you? Are you going to live the code and do the hard stuff? That's what it's about. And mostly people generally hit PRs because it's good programming. And it proves a point to people that you could do something more than you think you can and still get a result for people. Oh, you only squat once once a week maybe if you're squatting a thousand whatever but if you program

it right with intensities and loads and everything like that you could go almost 30 days and end up with a pr on day 30 you will probably frequency is the quickest way to get it exactly yeah and then what's funny thing we found is usually two or three uh weeks after that everyone gets big bench presses yeah yeah well the body you know sure it's not his muscles growing the whole body everyone just gets jacked they're like whoa and then they're kind of rested up top and you're like oh that's cool so yeah those are some different things we're doing um but the biggest thing about soar next what we're doing we're trying to create solutions within the industry and build a different a different community that has always been associated with the human performance world.

Awesome. Coach Travis Mash. Mashlead.com. This was an honor. Yeah, man. Thank you so much. Appreciate you having me. Doug Larson.

Bet. On Instagram, Douglas C. Larson. Bert. Dude, I really appreciate you hanging out with us. I've wanted to do this for many, many years. I got a lot of respect for you, your dad, and everything you guys have built. So I appreciate you being with us. We've been talking about this for over a year.

Oh, my gosh. For sure. Oh, my gosh. gosh well thank you for coming it's been super fun you'll have to come to summer strong yeah yeah i would love to if we're gonna if we're gonna be back on the road again this year it's a good place to kick it off in an awesome two hour two hours and 15 minutes here that's the longest podcast in my career smashed it could have kept going to push another 45 and go joe rogan podcast All right. I'm Anders Varner at Anders Varner. We're Barbell Shrugged to Barbell underscore Shrugged. Go over to BarbellShrugged.com forward slash Diesel Dad.

Strong, lean, and athletic. And then for everybody in San Diego, L.A., Palm Springs, and Vegas, get over to Walmart and the pharmacy. Three programs on the shelves. We'll see you guys next Wednesday. That's a wrap. Make sure you get over to BarbellShrug.com forward slash diesel dad challenge. 21 day commitment.

Cut the crap. Eat right. Train hard. barbellshrug.com forward slash diesel dad challenge. 21 days to cut the crap. Eat right. Train hard. The busy dad's guide to boosting metabolism, burning fat, and building muscle. Also want to thank our friends over at Organifi.

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