Barbell Shrugged - Stepping Up Supplements with 1st Phorm- Business of Fitness #76

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hi everyone, I'm Jason Kalipa and welcome to the Business of Fitness podcast. You're currently listening to this episode on the Shrugged Collective channel. We'll be on this channel for about another two or three weeks and then after that we'll be returning back to our traditional Business of Fitness channel. You can look us up on Spotify, on iTunes, etc. Just simply put in Business of Fitness, where we have about close to 70 or 80 episodes we've been recording for the last couple of years. If you're listening to this on Shrugged and you've been enjoying these episodes, please switch over, check it out over

Starting point is 00:00:35 there once we go ahead and stop producing new content on the Shrugged Collective in a few weeks. For today's episode, let's talk about it. Man, I just got back from St. Louis, Missouri. I was out there putting on an event for the NC Fit Collective gym owner. And while I was out there, I attended a 5K and met with the president of First Form, which is a supplement company. And his name is Sal Frizzella. Now, Sal and the team out at First Form are really doing something super unique. On the surface, yeah, they're a supplement company, but what's really interesting that I've seen is the culture and the community they've been able to create.

Starting point is 00:01:19 And I think as gym owners, as business owners, there's a lot we could learn from Sal and what they've been doing. Now, what they've been doing. Now, what they work on is they have these independent reps that go out and they have 10,000 of them. And we dove in today a little bit about how they maintain quality there, how they continue to raise the bar, how they set standards and how they're really working on kind of this person right in front of you, providing them the best value possible. And I really enjoyed our conversation. Stay tuned on this episode. We start warming up about five, 10 minutes in, and we dive into some awesome content. Now, before we get into it, just want

Starting point is 00:01:55 to let you know our partners over at Whoop have been awesome. Whoop is a wearable that I utilize, particularly to analyze my sleep, to look at my strain score. If you haven't checked out Whoop, go check out whoop.com and use the code Jason at checkout and you'll get $30 off. All right, guys. Now let's have a phenomenal episode with Sal Frazella, the president of First Form. And is this technically St. Louis? This is technically St. Louis. Technically St. Louis. And I flew out here to meet with the collective gym while we're out here. I hit you up. I was like, hey, man, I'm interested in hanging out. And you happen to be having a 5k going on. And from what I just experienced, it's pretty remarkable. What I experienced was what I really think you're uniquely good at, which is gathering

Starting point is 00:02:57 a group of individuals together, all moving in one area, creating the sense of community and this quote, like not brother, like a brotherhood, but it's, it's beautiful to see. And so what I'm really curious about is what we could learn from what first form has done to create this sense of culture. Because I saw two major things today. First off, you rallied hundreds and hundreds of people to come out and do a 5k that was supported by your organization. And I interacted with tons of people who moved from Texas and this and that to come and work for you and your organization. And what I'm seeing is that you're doing things uniquely well. And so I want to learn about it. What do you want to learn about? I want to learn. I want to learn. First of all, thank you. Yeah. I want

Starting point is 00:03:40 to learn a little bit more about first form. So tell me a little bit more about it because I hadn't really heard of it until, you know, maybe let's just say a year ago. Yeah. And so what is first form? What's your company? What do you guys do? And how does it operate as a business?

Starting point is 00:03:52 Cause it's a little bit different than most companies because you have these outside sales reps, right? Right. Yeah. I think, um, you know, goes, you know, first one is about 12 years old and, and the first five years, I think like most people in business, you're lost, you know, you don't really, you don't have a way. And so you're trying to fight and figure out your way. And, you know, for us, you know, we're in the supplement space, but we're, we're fat guys. That's the truth. And, and the fat guys in our space, um, we,

Starting point is 00:04:20 we understand what it's like not to be able to take a shirt off at the pool and not feel comfortable in the gym. And so when we got going, you know, we understand the business of helping people change their lives and spreading that message. And I think for us, that was a huge piece. And when you look at our fitness environment, you're not seeing a bunch of jacked tan, shredded people. You're seeing a bunch of people, humans, all who have a unique story and all who have a journey. And some lose 100 pounds and some lose 50 pounds. But the community that you see or was represented today is what I think all people crave is family, you know, being a part of something that's bigger than you. And understanding that doesn't matter how many abs you have, or how good

Starting point is 00:05:02 you look with your shirt off matters how many people's lives you can impact. And so for us as a company, sure, we sell supplements, but that's not really what we do. You know, we're in the business of helping people change their lives, whether it's personally or professionally or physically. You know, we understand the concept that we're in the business of helping people get better. And it's cool because, you know, you do have people. You know, I think that's the cool thing about fitness, right? When you're in the journey of fitness itself is, you use the term earned confidence. Your earned confidence over the course of time

Starting point is 00:05:34 is progressing you through life and you're going to struggle. You're going to fall. You're not always going to win, but it's the fact that you're in the game and people are supporting you in the game that makes you progress down the road of life. And so you're watching what you see out there out back today is an awesome group of people that I'm really proud of that are all on that journey of life of getting better.

Starting point is 00:05:54 And so we're in the people business. We just happen to sell supplements. Yeah. And so you're in the people business. And like I said, you guys are doing it uniquely well. And listen, I'm not just trying to pump you up. You guys do it uniquely well. Thank you.

Starting point is 00:06:08 In the sense that the engagement, the community feeling over really what would be considered from the outside is a supplement business. You really are in the people business. And so as you guys were creating the business, it started off as stores, correct. But now you guys have these reps. And so I want to dive into that because I think it's really unique the way you guys structured it. And then I want to talk about how you guys train it. And then I want to talk about this concept of the person right there in front of you. So how does the business work of first form in a big picture? Yeah. And the big picture. So my brother and Chris, uh, have what's called supplement super stores. It's a chain of retail stores. And to give you the cliff notes version of our business model, uh, Andrew has a very forward thinking brain and,

Starting point is 00:06:53 and, you know, he could see that, you know, supplement companies as the internet came on, it was like, how can we make an inferior product and sell it cheaper through the internet? Right. And that was kind of the evolution of even Amazon in that sense. It was like, you could get on Amazon and get it cheaper. Well, companies figured out how to make a less quality product is provided at a lower cost so that people would buy it on the internet. And that was the evolution of the internet. And so my brother said, Hey, how do I make the best possible product in an offer to a retail environment exclusive so that we can still continue to help people change their lives. Right. And so that's, that was kind of the spawning of first form. The evolution of first form is when social media came around first

Starting point is 00:07:30 five years of first form, we're out, you know, calling on retail store environments and, and we had a good following in that world when social came around, it was the ability for us to spread that message wildfire, you know, a lot easier, a lot faster. And that was like five years ago. It was about five years ago. And because we got to connect with people and that's the cool thing about social media is it's allowed. It allows everybody to have a voice and everybody to have a brand. And, and so we utilize that model to go out and say, Hey, this is who we are. You know, if you don't know what you're doing in the gym, or you don't know how to eat correctly, or you don't know the difference in supplements, call us.

Starting point is 00:08:05 Like, we'll help. You know, not, hey, buy two, get three free. Not, hey, this is our $19 pre-workout. It's, hey, before you go buy a pre-workout, let's look at your diet. Let's see how you're exercising. Let's see how we can help change your life. Like, save your money. You know, you're better off buying a fish oil than you are buying a pre-workout at this point, right?

Starting point is 00:08:22 And so the concept of actually helping people, which I know is mind blowing for most business owners, or in the supplement space, how can we genuinely help this person change their life. And if we do that one customer at a time, we could win. And so we utilize social media to spread that message and people's, you know, if you build it, they will come right if you're just honest. And my brother, we made a video back in athlete search days. If we go out of business doing it that way, then that's fine. At least we can hang our hat on the fact like, Hey, this is, this is a message we went with. And we went with a good heart and started with education. Let's teach these people, not sell these people things. Let's help them not sell them. And let's see if

Starting point is 00:09:01 they come. And they started coming, you know, because you realize that there's a lot of mis-education in the fitness world. Like what diet do I do? Do I do the keto? Do I zone? Do I stand on my head? Do I take this wrap? Do I, what do I do? Right. And that's what the supplement industry has become. That's what the fitness space has become is when I say has become, that's what they're, they're hammered with. You know, it's easy. Oh, 21 day fix. No, there's no 21 day fix. You didn't get fat in 21 days and you're not going to get in shape in 21 days. Understand that a true message. And so we just started promoting that. And guess what? Honesty wins. It's an amazing concept. You be truthful to people. You teach them how to eat properly. You teach them how to exercise properly. They start seeing results and guess what? They

Starting point is 00:09:44 come back and say, Hey, is there anything else that I can do to lose the next 15 pounds? You know? And, and, and you know, you, what you saw today is the last six, seven years of us spreading that message and, and really trying to be good by people. And then those people became, some of them even became ambassadors for you. Correct. So it started off, I really like what you're saying. So I think this concept of in the supplement space, I've seen it too. Everybody just tries to cheaper, cheaper, cheaper, cheaper, cheaper. And at some point the model breaks down. At some point you're just putting out some really crappy products and you guys kind of

Starting point is 00:10:17 went out there with a little bit of a different technique and you guys really went to this concept of helping people. I think in our space, in the fitness space, in the boutique fitness space, we have to be careful not to go down that same path of cheaper, cheaper, cheaper, water down, water down, water down. Because ultimately we're in the people space just like you are. And the more of an impact we can make on people, the better our business is going to be, which I want to dive into. But before we get into that, I want to talk about how a lot of the people here are reps for you. Correct.

Starting point is 00:10:41 And you have what? 10,000 reps? Correct. That's a lot of people. It is a big wide net. And how many of those people do you think that are reps for you have had like a life changing transformation because of your message, your products, your, your mindset? I mean, how many of them do you think? I mean, I would think, you know, both whether it's physically or mentally, right. I would say all, and that's why they come. They don't come. What's interesting about our brand is, and I think what you, what you learn about people is if you can positively impact their life,

Starting point is 00:11:13 like they'll repay the favor tenfold and repay the flavor. Uh, the favor tenfold is getting your car and drive here from New York with your wife and kids, because you believe so heavily in the mission that we provide. And whether it's in the, in the business world with my brother, in the fitness world with first form or in the team world with what we provide in the Legionnaire program, like in the backend, like how to better your brand or how to teach somebody how to eat properly or exercise, how to teach yourself, how to do it like an education process. It creates a culture of, of wanting to be better, better than you are today, whether it's physically, emotionally, spiritually, like just, you want to progress through life.

Starting point is 00:11:50 We offer an environment that can allow you to succeed there. Right. And the people want more. And what happens is you surround yourself with more people that are in the same boat. Now you have new friends that are all fighting in the same mission and they're fighting the same struggle. And so it's a, it's a collection of, of good individuals who want to better themselves and the people around them. And that's, that's our business. And so I met some people who drove in from Florida, this, that, right. All over. Right. But I want to, for a 5k. Yeah. You could go out your back door and run it. Yeah. You could, you could go out your, yeah. Um, and we should note by the way, the, um, the 5k was, uh, in memory of a deputy or a police officer who lost his life,

Starting point is 00:12:30 uh, nearby here and was a customer of the brand. And it's, it seemed like everybody was also rallying around that cause, which was, was really powerful. Right. I want to dive into specific things. So you have 10,000 reps, you've built this business, but I also want to talk about how you incorporate private Facebook groups for gym owners or business owners in general, who might be listening. Maybe they own, I always talk about coffee shops. I'm obsessed with them. One day I want to own one. What type of things have you learned? Today's a good day. It is what, yeah. What kind of things have you learned with the 10 000 reps right with

Starting point is 00:13:05 with building this business uh specifically on social and so i think socials changed over the years correct you guys utilize podcasts you guys utilize um instagram and facebook you also utilize groups and so maybe you just explain a little bit better how do you manage quality across 10 000 uh you know of these yeah 10,000 reps, they're called Legionnaires. Oh, 10,000 Legionnaires. How do you, how do you manage quality there? And what do you guys do to structure that? Cause I I'm curious, cause maybe we could learn from that for, you know, 200 of our coaches as an example. Right. I think you've, you've probably, um, in listening to podcasts or reading books or, you know, we seek out information that we're

Starting point is 00:13:44 usually that we're really strong in and we're really weak in the middle stuff. We kind of like disappear, right? You seek out the information you're really strong in because you want to test how good you're at it or how good you are in that zone. Does that make sense? Yeah. So like, okay. So, so if, if you listen to a business podcast to kind of see where your gauge is against it, right? Private groups has allowed us an opportunity to, not everybody's, sorry, let me back up here. Not everybody has the same problem. Okay. Not every person has the same problem. So when you can silo the education systems or groups and talk about specific problems in these groups, you can get a really high engagement because you're allowing us to attack a certain problem, whether it's nutrition. We're going to talk about that today. So you don't have to just spend an hour

Starting point is 00:14:28 listening to nutrition that you're, you're sounding as yeah. It's like in the fitness space. For example, if I'm interested in working on my gymnastics, I want to seek information on that. I might not care. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like I might not, I might not care. So it's irrelevant to me. So, but you might be weak in social media. So guess what? I'm getting on social media. I'm getting a social media group today, and I have some questions. I have some questions like, hey, on Instagram, when should I post? How should I post?

Starting point is 00:14:54 Why should I post? What type of content do people need? Or you might struggle in a gym because a lot of our people are gym owners or they could be personal trainers. Hey, I have a customer who is 300 pounds. How should I approach this situation from a diet standpoint? Because they have 150 pounds to lose. Do I set their calorie? So we have specific groups tailored to be able to help our reps succeed in those situations. Those are private Facebook groups on specific topics. Correct. And we have it. So we use Facebook groups and we have a custom system that we've built in the background that allows people to mask, join into calls. But Facebook groups is a, it's a great way to do it, right? Because it's a private

Starting point is 00:15:32 group, one video, bunch of interaction in the back end. And that's how we built the system out of the gate is just engaging people on their struggles. Like where do you struggle? And that's why I always say I'm in, we're in the people business because our job is to help them, whether they're a rep of ours and I have to help them with business. Like they're coming across a, like, how do I sample where, how do I set up a sample booth at a gym? Or they are a, they're struggling physically, whether like, how do I set my protein number? It's our job to help them. Not, not anything else. It's our job to help them succeed. And the way that you do that is through these different silos. And then also your team here then. So you have what,

Starting point is 00:16:10 20 full-time people here that then are responsible to engage with the 10,000. Is that correct? That's correct. Yeah. And then so we have a rotation of calls all day. You could, you could tap in social media. You could tap in nutrition. You could tap in exercise. You could tap in personal branding. You could tap all day. You have tap in exercise. You could tap in personal branding. You could tap all day. You have access to that all day. You can hop on those calls and continually better yourselves and really zone in on what it is that you want to get better at. And so one of the things I thought was really unique that we were talking about, and I was explaining to you how some gym owners are in a challenging spot right now.

Starting point is 00:16:42 Right. They're stuck at the same member number number and they're working on ways to improve that. And you know, you, you were a little bit more blunt about it than I am, I think, but really you put the onus back on the owner and said, Hey, it's you. And it's you not engaging one member at a time, the person right in front of you. And I think that, um, I want to dive into that a little bit more because I find that you do a good job. Earlier today, we're running the 5K and I was like, hey, man, like, you know, like, how are you going to run it? And you're like, well, dude, I'm going to run it in a way that I could talk to everybody as I go. Yeah. I was like, OK.

Starting point is 00:17:19 Like and and I was like, I don't know if you said how am I going to. I was like, yeah, I'm going to. So I ran it pretty hard. Right. But I watched you finish and you finish, you know, later on you were pushing your son in the stroller. But what I thought was interesting is what you said. You said, hey, I'm going to run at a pace that I'm able to engage with all these people. Right. And what makes that unique to me is that you're interested in the one-on-one personal connection.

Starting point is 00:17:41 And so let's dive into that a little bit because I think people people get lost, especially in this day and age with social media, they're trying to create content to attract more people, but they're forgetting about is that people sitting right in front of them are their best customers and they're their number one promoters and their best people. So I want to dive into the one-on-one and this whole idea of going from 30,000 a year to 60,000 and how you could do that without actually working more. That's an interesting concept too. Yeah. I mean, dude, this is, this is like, all right. So in a digital age, right. We're so, and Amazon did a phenomenal job, really the internet and social media have done a phenomenal job at creating convenience and making things, you know, very visual and easy. But one thing is that we crave as humans is one-on-one interaction,

Starting point is 00:18:25 you know, like one-on-one, like you realize that the further and further things become faster and easier and, you know, double tap the further and further we get away from the human interaction piece from a day-to-day standpoint. Right. We always say any restaurant and there'll be more people texting each other than there were anyways. Okay. That's exactly right. You know, we live in a digital age, but what you realize is like people are getting further and further away from interacting with one another and what you realize is that's a great opportunity for you to to separate yourself from other business owners or other individuals in general is to connect with humans and the one thing that i've learned through being able to teach somebody something there's an intangible

Starting point is 00:19:03 asset exchange there that they are now, they now owe you one, right? It's like a bonus system. So like I give them me and how can I help them? And I genuinely engage with them and it's usually a better experience than they'll experience anywhere. And it's very simple. It's because I like being around people. Like I love people. So my job is to help them get better. And so the reason it's important for me to go out and say hi to all those

Starting point is 00:19:24 people is because I want to thank them for being here. I want to thank them for being a part of it. And I want to see that I'm struggling right next to them. And I'm engaged with it right next to them at a human level. Not through social, not through a screen. But I'm me. And I'm here to help you. And I'm going to do it right next to you.

Starting point is 00:19:40 And I think in the digital space, we all get caught up in how to make it faster, easier, quicker. When in reality, it's one person at a time. It's one workout at a time. It's one diet at a time. It's one interaction at a time. And when you can learn, and I think the reason you're intrigued by it, because it's the AMRAP mentality, right?

Starting point is 00:19:57 It's right in front of you. Yeah. You worry about winning right in front of you right now. Don't worry about, you know, the, how am I going to get to $85,000? Worry about how I'm front of you right now. Don't worry about, you know, the, how am I going to get to $85,000? Worry about how I'm going to win right now. And so if you're a gym owner out there and your, your business is stagnant, or if you're a business owner in general, do you think that one piece of advice, what you just said could single-handedly take a business from where it's at to the next step is, is this idea of just looking at this person in the eye and saying, I want to, I want to change your life. And if I could do that,

Starting point is 00:20:28 now you're going to go tell the other people at your office, what I've done to change your life. And that's going to bring in more people in the door. But you said there was more to it than that because a lot of gym owners right now, they do care and they love their members. I mean, they love them sometimes to have, to a fault because they'll keep owning a business that might not be profitable. But then they might miss out on these other pieces like keeping the restroom clean, or they might have it where it's a little bit more of this. Maybe they love them so much that then it becomes unprofessional in a sense where they'll have coaches that just won't show up for class or they'll cancel a class on Saturday and

Starting point is 00:21:01 be like, oh yeah, sorry guys, I'm taking the kids to the beach. It's like, well, that's cool, but not happening. Not happening. So how do you bridge that gap? What's the next step? Well, I think, you know, I've struggled with this too. And, and the next steps are, I mean, there's two, two parts to this equation, right? I think one is like managing your friends, creating such a great environment that it's loose, but it's too loose. That was the second part of your question. The first part is making sure that you do such a great job, that you think you're doing such a great job with these people that they're out telling their friends. Are you really? And I think that's what I've learned about life. You know, you need to go look in the mirror and understand what it is that you're doing.

Starting point is 00:21:35 Like, what are you doing? If your business is only making $36,000, it's a telltale of your customer experience. And that, that's, that would, that was my argument that we were making before is, you know, how do you get that person to go out? How do you do such a great job with the person in front of you that they are working for you 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And when you talk about delivering that customer experience, it's making sure that you are changing their life, whether it's physically, professionally, emotionally, so that they become a member of you. You know what I mean? They're, they're, they're speaking you to their friends because you've done such a great job at impacting their life that they're out. They feel, they feel almost, um, that they, they have to repay you that day, that debt,

Starting point is 00:22:19 right? That you've changed your life so well that they're going to go out and tell their other, tell other friends about the experience. Well, like you have these reps who have lost a hundred pounds. I met a guy today. He drove from really far away. I think he's active duty, uh, in the military. There's a lot of active duty here and he's lost like 80 pounds, whatever. And he felt compelled to drive here and be a part of this because of what the organization, uh, the community, the first form has done for him. And what I thought was really unique is you asked me a question earlier. You said, hey, what if you have a gym owner that wants to,

Starting point is 00:22:52 currently makes $36,000 a year? And I would say that's a fair kind of like annual average, right? Not total top line revenue. I'm talking about take home net. And you said, how are they going to take that from 36 to 72,000? And I said, well, you could double your membership. But what we were really talking about when we were looking at your guys, and by the way, I came in earlier and his guys are writing thank you letters on each one of your orders, which I want to talk about towards the end. But when your guys want to go from 36,000 a year to 72, they assume they need to double the amount of hours they work.

Starting point is 00:23:30 So if you're working 40 hours a week, you're making 36. Well, if I work 80, now I can make 72. But you see it different than that. Well, I mean, that is part of the equation or could be part of the equation, right? Yeah. If you're paid hourly, the fastest way, the most conceptual way to double your income is work double the hours. Well, when you get to 80 hours, it's really hard. I mean, okay, so can you work 160? You know what I mean? So you're at this spot. And so I think a lot of people think this way. They get stuck in this rut and understanding, okay, well, how do you have compounding interest on your time? And how do you compound your income based off of that experience? And the only way to do that in life is to do such a great job with the person in front

Starting point is 00:24:08 of you right now that when they go home, they're working for you while they're sleeping. They're working for you while they're at work. And if you do that one customer at a time, every single time, and treat them with the exact same experience and deliver them with the exact same results and making sure that you're holding them accountable, right? Making sure that, you know, a lot of these people, they'll come here because I hold them accountable. Like I get online and say, Hey, are you putting in the work or you just act like it, right? And when you can treat your members that way, and you can treat and understand that each person is an opportunity for you to double

Starting point is 00:24:40 your business because you take one customer and turn them into two. It's the fastest way to double your business. When you start looking at it as a one-to-one interaction on a day-to-day basis, you really can have these people working for you while you're sleeping, which is the fastest way for you to compound your income. And I can tell you it works because we're sitting in a building that's built that way. It's one person at a time. It's one interaction at a time. It's one result at a time. And it's all done through making sure that you can teach them and you can hold them accountable. And I think that's the piece to creating such a fun environment where it's, and, and where's the, the difference between taking them to the, taking the kids to the beach, sorry,

Starting point is 00:25:14 I'm canceling class and, and establishing what it is that that customer experience is, you know? And so, you know, managing your friends, which is in a box environment is usually what it becomes. It's very hard. Yeah. But I think what we've, what you learn is on being on a great team, you know, managing your friends, which is in a box environment is usually what it becomes. It's very hard. Yeah. But I think what we've, what you learn is on being on a great team. You know, I know you're from an individual sport, but being, you've been on a lot of great teams is there's a code, there's a set of rules. And as a leader inside that group, like these are the rules. I'm, I'm going to crack that whip. When you step outside these rules, it doesn't mean I

Starting point is 00:25:42 don't like you. It doesn't mean I'm mad at you. It just means it's, these are the rules and we're going to play by them. And there's a certain amount of respect. And what happens is when you can take one person in that environment from a management or leadership role, you can have two now, because now you can teach the second person to have so much pride in the culture that they'll hold the line on the next person. And so now we, we hold the line. I actually do that. I do that kind of mass scale here through our bathroom. Did you go to our bathroom by chance? Yeah, I went to your bathroom. Did you notice how clean they were?

Starting point is 00:26:10 Yeah, they look good. I went to this bathroom and I went to the other bathroom. You think there's hundreds of people using that bathroom today. My guy, we have a standard that is upheld that we are, there's a standard inside my bathroom. You were to wipe the seat down. You were to wipe the sink down. You were to make sure you replenish the toilet paper roll. You take the seat down. You were to wipe the sink down. You were to make sure you replenish the toilet paper roll. You take the trash out.

Starting point is 00:26:25 And if the person walks out in front of you and they didn't do one of the things that are on our internal checklist, you were to find that person. It's called the bang box. You bang that person. And so there's an accountability structure that's built in. What's the bang? The bang is a $5 penalty. And we put it in our little kiddie box up here. And they have to come up in front of the company on Monday morning.

Starting point is 00:26:44 And the bang does not apply unless you address that person. You have to address them. Says, hey, you didn't refill the toilet paper roll. And so it's a weird, awkward interaction. Right. But I'm teaching my guys at a very low scale how to hold somebody accountable to the rules and regulations and teach them to crack the whip. And they have to do it confrontationally. And so it creates a little bit of weirdness.

Starting point is 00:27:04 But I'm teaching somebody a leadership level that on a big level is going to do it confrontationally. And so it creates a little bit of weirdness, but I'm teaching somebody a leadership level that on a big level is going to help them, right? How do we, these are the rules. Those uncomfortable conversations. And that's, I mean, and as you move up the ladder, that's, that's what it is, right? You're going to have more uncomfortable conversations, but when you get comfortable having them,

Starting point is 00:27:18 it's the difference between right and wrong. Yeah. You know, did you do it or did you not? How long ago did you implement the bang? It's been three years. I love it. And in the beginning, did you get some backlash? Was it really awkward? I don't, you know, the thing do it or did you not? How long ago did you implement the bang? It's been three years. I love it. And in the beginning, did you get some backlash? Was it really awkward?

Starting point is 00:27:28 I don't, you know, the thing is, is like, and this is what I've learned is like, there's only one way to lead and it's by example. And the only way it gets awkward is if I fall, you know what I mean? If I fail, if I don't wipe the seat down, and I tell them, find me a hundred bucks. You catch me doing it, a hundred bucks. You won't catch me doing it. But now it's just part of the culture. You know, something else that's part of your culture,

Starting point is 00:27:50 which I found really interesting so that the bang box is unique. Definitely something that I think we could take into consideration. Uh, but I think what's really interesting is that in your business, I've been here now twice and I mean, I must've watched a group of like 20 dudes out there just writing on a, on invoices. Is that what they were doing? Yeah. They're writing on each ticket and each ticket. And I mean, that must take, how long does it take for one individual to do, let's just say a hundred orders. How long does it take them? Well, I mean, you got to go out and write a hundred thank you cards. So imagine that maybe two hours, I challenge you to go do that. It'll take them a couple hours to do it. The first two

Starting point is 00:28:28 hours for actually the first three hours of every shift are spent writing notes. So first three hours of every shift is 20 guys, 20 guys, now 24 guys on Monday. Now here's the thing though, when you look at the cost of that, let's just say for sake argument, you're paying the guy 20 bucks an hour. It's irrelevant. You're, But you're, you're spending 60 bucks. Yeah. Right. On thank you cards. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:28:48 What do you think your ROI is on that? I mean, what do you, I mean, exponential. I mean, it's, it's everything I got. It's our business. We're in the business of separating ourselves from Amazon. You know, we're in a world where you read, like, this is what, this is where the, maybe this conversation takes a different turn is, you know, Amazon is consuming every, all these small businesses, but the one thing, and this is the, maybe the core common mission or the core common theme here is

Starting point is 00:29:10 I'll go head to head with Amazon all day long. I'm not afraid of them. I'm not concerned about them. I have no one because they will never beat me at being a human. They will never understand. They will, they will beat me on shipping time. They will provide a better price. They will never understand. They will beat me on shipping time. They will provide a better price. They will get it there faster. They probably have a better return policy, even though mine's 110%, right? But you can't call Amazon and ask a question. You can't call Amazon and talk to a human. You can't get a handwritten thank you card.

Starting point is 00:29:38 We have a proactive thank you economy where we're out calling our customers, asking them how they're doing, what's going on, happy birthday. You will never beat me in the people business. And that, so no matter what it costs me, every single time we get a consultant come in or somebody comes in and they're like, well, you know how much money you could save? Yeah. Do you know how much money I'd lose? Yeah. You know, because we're providing a different service from everybody else in the competitive space. We are going above and beyond. And what I've realized is when they try to duplicate it, they realize how difficult it is. And so they cut it out.

Starting point is 00:30:09 And it's kind of, to prelude this conversation, you know, I was behind 11,000 orders last week because of Pumpkin Spice. It would have been very easy for us not to write those notes on those cards. But like the bathroom, these are the rules. Every single person gets a handwritten note. Those are the rules. I don't care what it takes to do it. I don't care how much it costs us.

Starting point is 00:30:30 We took our entire company, which our average guy makes a hell of a lot more than $15 an hour, but we all went out back. We all grabbed pens, my brother included, and we wrote notes. And so when you think about what is the cost of that, my customers, that's the cost. Because the standard is set. And so if they don about what is the cost of that, my customers, that's the cost. Because the standard is set. And so if they don't get that same standard, there's inconsistencies. You're holding the line. And that's hard as a gym owner. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:30:52 What Sal was saying was, you know, they had a major launch of a new flavor. And so there are 11,000 orders behind. But, I mean, I get what you're saying, right? Hold the line and you're creating that standard. Now, are these documented? So when you like, let's just take for a gym owner out there and you have, let's just say five, 10 coaches or whatever it may be. Do you document all your systems and procedures? You have to, yeah. You can't, can't measure it. Can't manage it. That's the, I mean, that's the number one rule in life. If you cannot see it, it's not manageable

Starting point is 00:31:21 because it's not, there's no, there's no rules. You know what I mean? It's not written down down, if there's not a procedure, if there's not a... It'd be like managing a salesperson. Right. Well, pay me. I'm doing a good job. Yeah. Okay. Well, what are you worth? Well, I mean, I sell a lot of things. What do you sell? Right. You know what I mean? Like, what are you doing? Right.

Starting point is 00:31:38 And so you have to be able to manage that process, whether it's a number or a process, right? A checklist, one through 10, is this what you're doing? No, you did one through seven, one through 10 is what creates the customer experience. You know, you might cut out on that handwritten note. Well, the handwritten notes, big part of our deal. And that's, you know, to the gym owner, if you're not able to establish what it is that creates such an unbelievable experience for that customer, for your, your member, they're likely going to go somewhere else. Whereas if you do the one through 10 and your guys are executing one through 10, not only are they not going somewhere

Starting point is 00:32:10 else, they're going to bring a friend. And that's the difference in understanding. And it's usually the small things. It's small. It's always like you want to cut the corner. It's like the guy that you played football with that didn't want to touch the line when you're doing conditioning. Is that the guy you trust when you're down by seven, you want to throw the ball to that guy who's cheating a corner all the time? No. You know what I mean? You, you establish the guys, the one through 10, you hold your guys or girls accountable to the one through 10 and make sure that your customers are getting the same experience. And that's your opportunity to, to win big picture in longterm. So as, as a winning, as your business has grown,

Starting point is 00:32:45 and you've been into a lot of CrossFit style gyms, you've been in a lot of gyms in general. Now, first form isn't, I wouldn't say it's being sold at, you know, if you're in the CrossFit space, you might not be as familiar with the product. However, I mean, you've done CrossFit for a long time. You're very familiar. You've gone to a lot of events. You've gone to a lot of gyms. What have you experienced in the different gyms? Just like an outsider's perspective, right? Coming from a different background with baseball, right? Yep.

Starting point is 00:33:11 And then coming into the space, what have you seen that is just like low-hanging fruit that you think, in general, our industry could be better at? I mean, well, I think in general, most people in the fitness space are so worried about making money that they forget about taking care of people. I think that's, most people in our, in the fitness space are so worried about making money that they forget about taking care of people. I think that's the biggest thing. But the, the, the one thing that will always win is culture. And I think CrossFit taught us that of all things, you know, culture wins. And if you look at some of the best box, uh, owners in the country, like they haven't changed,

Starting point is 00:33:42 you know, you're a great example of this. I mean, I have friends like this, you know, like their, their numbers are not down. They're still growing because there's a core common culture that people want to belong to. And I think as humans, as the world becomes again, more digital, we're craving more and more human interaction and your gym should be a place where that is provided. And I think whether it's at the elite level or it's at the community level, people want to belong and they want to know that where they're going is impacting their life at a higher level. And they're going, they're surrounding themselves with good people that make them better. Right. And so culture will win no matter what it is. You could be the best coach in the entire

Starting point is 00:34:19 country. If you're a piece of shit, you're a piece of shit. And I, you know, does it make, they're not going to come to you. 100%. So now with culture, like I told you, I've been remarkably impressed with the culture that's been created here. What do you think, aside from holding the standard, holding the line, that's more of like a business perspective, but in the overall culture, what do you think is like an underlying characteristic that's really made you stand out? Aside from, I get it, like like 1% of time, you know, really make an impact on their life. Or is that just it?

Starting point is 00:34:49 Is that from a culture perspective, what else do you do that you think someone else can embody? So I think, well, there's only one way to lead and it's by example, right? And I think we establish this, like it's the little things that you discount that I think are really the big things. Holding the line is a big deal. Establishing the rules is a big deal. And the reason is, is because now your guy, your new guy who's here three, four months takes pride in those rules. And he holds the line to the new guy. The new guy now has to play his game. He was once the new guy, right? And so when you set those

Starting point is 00:35:21 rules and you teach your people to hold them accountable, it creates a sense of belonging. Like this is my house. This is my bathroom. You're not going to, you're not going to pee on my toilet seat. You know what I'm saying? Like not, you're the new guy. These are the rules. And so there creates this, it's a sense of pride that happens each in each one of our orders through that system. For your staff. But now how about for your customers? Same. Same thing. People want to belong. When people understand that you care about them, like you genuinely care about them, they will care about you.

Starting point is 00:35:52 But you got to go first. So aside from the thank you letters, what else are you doing with the customers that you think sets you apart? Well, I think social is a great piece to do that. You know what I mean? Social is a great piece. If you guys aren't utilizing social at this piece to interact with humans on a day-to-day basis, it's such a fast way. I mean, you got to think like 10 years ago, we couldn't connect to our customers like we do now on a personal level, on a, on a personal level. I mean, actually see like when they have a baby,

Starting point is 00:36:16 are you sending them flowers? You know what I mean? Like, are you, are you showing up at the hospital? Like, are you over there mowing their grass? Cause you know, they're at the hospital. Are you doing that type of shit? Cause if you are, you're winning. If you just think that, man, nobody does it. So I don't have to do it. You're likely having the $36,000 a year problem, right? So understanding that social allows us to connect to humans at a different level. And then we have that access. And if you're not utilizing that access and interacting with them, you're losing, you know, taking the time to send your customers a video message through social media. Yeah. I mean, I work a lot of hours. I got three kids under 14 months, wrap your head around that. You know,

Starting point is 00:36:51 I run a decently sized business. I got a lot going on, but you'll catch me at night after my wife and I settled down. Like I'm going to shoot my 10 messages every single night. I'm going to shoot 10 video DMS. I'm shooting them out to let people know that I care about them. I appreciate them. Thank you for the tag. Thank you for the tag. Thank you for the share. Thank you for, thank you for being you. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:37:08 Just directly to them. And if you're not doing that, you're losing. Yeah. So I understand it's a, it's a people game. Like it's, it's,

Starting point is 00:37:13 I know it's, it sounds so stupid, but it's real. Yeah. I know. And, and if you're in the gym business or if you're in the customer, like face to face,

Starting point is 00:37:21 right. It's a lot easier. Like you have it harder because your customers could be from anywhere in the world right they order your stuff and so you have to use digital as this platform because you don't have the opportunity right there in front of you right and so you must use it and you and that's how you win right yeah but for us we have an opportunity it's even better because that person's right there in front of us but are you doing it right are they doing those things yeah you know what i'm saying i get it and i think you know like you look at so small things like we so not only do we write thank you notes on the invoices themselves, but

Starting point is 00:37:50 we actually have thank you card writers. You know, I've got 10 people that just write thank you cards all day. And so when you look at, when you bought your car, when you bought your truck, did they send you a thank you card or did you get a pre-printed? Hey, Jason, Hey, you never got anything. And you spent 60, 70, 80 grand and you get a pre-printed, hey, Jason, hey, you never got anything. And you spent 60, 70, 80 grand. I mean, you buy a house. I got some pairs one time from the realtor that sold by. That just made 100 grand on your commission. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:38:13 From the other guy. And you think about these things. And they're so little. And they're so mundane. And they're difficult to do. But it's also an opportunity for you to separate yourself from everybody else. And so you say, oh, well, it's harder for me. No, actually, I think it's easier for me because nobody else is going to do it. So if that's how I got to win, that's what I'm going

Starting point is 00:38:31 to play, you know? And so, uh, you know, and I'm competitive, you know, in that sense. And so you always think like, to me, it's how do I win? And for me, it's understanding that the person in front of me matters most right now. And when you can learn to duplicate that time and time again, you can scale your business because those people, while you're sleeping, are working for you on building your culture. Because you're a center of belonging. You're a center of whatever it is. And that's, again, I'll come back to say that's why we're in the people business. Because it doesn't matter. We all have problems.

Starting point is 00:39:01 My job is to solve them. I love it, man. Well, look for anybody listening who wants to know more about, uh, you know, more, know more, know, know more about your business, where you guys are going, um, where can they find you? So, uh, personally at Mr. Forsella, M R like the old man for Sella F R I S EL-L-A. The business is at First Form, 1ST, like first place, right? Get it? First, 1ST, P-H-O-R-M. Yeah, I mean, we're Facebook, Instagram.

Starting point is 00:39:32 We don't tweet, so we're not like, you know, trumping. We don't retweet. Let me try that again. Now I'm stumbling. You don't retweet people. There you go. But you reach out on Instagram. We gram them, yeah.

Starting point is 00:39:44 Well, I really appreciate your time i think it's been super insightful and uh so it's mr frizella we'll go ahead and copy that in the show notes and uh everybody has a great day cool appreciate you jay

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