Barbell Shrugged - Strength PHD: The Simplified Equations of Strength and Conditioning w/ Anders Varner, Doug Larson, and Travis Mash - Barbell Shrugged #526

Episode Date: November 30, 2020

Buy Strength PHD and help support weightlifters at Lenoir-Rhyne University   In this Episode of Barbell Shrugged: Why every coach needs to understand the fundamental equations of strength How to incorporate these equations into a training program. How to master energy systems  What is impulse and how to improve it Nutrition for hypertrophy Buy Strength PHD and help support weightlifters at Lenoir-Rhyne University   Anders Varner on Instagram Doug Larson on Instagram Coach Travis Mash on Instagram ———————————————— Training Programs to Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/34zcGVw   Nutrition Programs to Lose Fat and Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/3eiW8FF   Nutrition and Training Bundles to Save 67%: https://bit.ly/2yaxQxa   Please Support Our Sponsors   PowerDot - Save 20% using code BBS at http://PowerDot.com/BBS    Inside Tracker: insidetracker.com/earlyaccess to be the first to hear about InsideTracker’s BEST DEAL of the year    Fittogether - Fitness ONLY Social Media App   Organifi - Save 20% using code: “Shrugged” at organifi.com/shrugged   www.masszymes.com/shruggedfree  - for FREE bottle of BiOptimizers Masszymes   Garage Gym Equipment and Accessories: https://bit.ly/3b6GZFj Save 5% using the coupon code “Shrugged”

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Fit together. Friends, let's get after it. Welcome to Barbell Strugged. I'm Anders Varner, Doug Larson, Coach Travis Mass. Hanging out this morning. How's the food coming? You guys alive? Bright and early, day after Thanksgiving. How much food did you eat? If you had to put it on a scale, how much food did you eat? Calorically? Let's go food volume, total poundage, and then total caloric intake.

Several pounds and calories. Several pounds and several calories. Yeah. Do you think you hit the 2,000? So what does a day of eating on Thanksgiving look like? Definitely 2,000 calories easily. At just Thanksgiving? At just Thanksgiving. Yeah. so what was it what is a day of eating on thanksgiving look like definitely 2 000 calories easily at just thanksgiving at just thanksgiving if you yeah if you talk about the meal plus the dessert yeah and then if you count like the the whole day of like snacking on that food oh yeah

like definitely definitely a gross amount yeah yeah what was the highlight let's go big and just eat whatever you want like you you see cheesecake and you just like smash three pieces because it's thanksgiving or do you still restrain yourself in any any zero capacity yeah i don't even have to restrain i feel this is like one thing that's so great that you don't really realize about eating well is like the amount of inflammation and like gut bloat when you do that makes you feel so awful yeah the gut bloat is the most uncomfortable thing that happens in the world and i'm like what so funny this is such a terrible story when i was like super training and really really into making it to regionals and all this

christmas happened and like christmas dinner and thanksgiving those are like probably the two and really, really into making it to regionals and all this. Christmas happened. And like Christmas dinner and Thanksgiving, those are like probably the two biggest gluttonous meals of the year. And I was so deep into training and regionals was coming up when I went home for Christmas. And I was so selfish in everything that my mom made like the most amazing Christmas dinner. And of course, it's just soaked in butter and sugar and

all of it and i got so angry at my family for making a real christmas dinner for the whole family and i got up and i went fuck this and i threw my fork down and walked out of christmas dinner because i was so it was like it's kind of one of those things where you look back and it still like doesn't feel good. I still don't like telling that story. That's rough. It's like, man, I can't believe that I was that selfish in training for something that nobody cared about except me.

But I had like built this story in my head of like, I'm never not eating well even if I go home I've got competition in eight weeks or something like that like I have to be perfect and then you sit down at like Christmas table and you look at the most delicious food ever and you like get up and like leave your family it's the most embarrassing thing like i can't i still like when i think about how selfish a human can be i'm like oh that one stings wish i could have that christmas back just ruining christmas for your whole family the girl i was dating this was in 2002 her dad died and i i left her to go compete. I'm like, I got to compete. Sorry.

And I was okay with that. I literally drove all the way to Columbus, Ohio, feeling like, of course, I'm not staying. Not my dad. Not my mom. If it had been, I probably would have still gone if it had been. Like, I don't think anything would have stopped me. That's just terrible.

Yeah. I think that was like the lowest and when i of all the things i feel like that that's the only one where i feel like really still like oh god i wish i could have that just that one's nasty man dropping an f-bomb on your mom at christmas dinner you only see her once a year yeah because you're like on the other coast and you're just absorbed in this world you come home and you're still just like yeah yeah that's pretty bad and it's but yeah wish i could have that one back but i can't can't go back several back i didn't drive the air bomb on my mom i'm still afraid of her anyway she would have stabbed me with a fork i i walked out went to my room and i came as soon as dinner was over i came back out and i just said mom i'm like really sorry about that i that one's really embarrassing but

i was where i was at i was like so deep you apologize like a few hours later or like maybe like 30 minutes later 30 minutes later yeah i mean it was just it was purely to get to that point you're like um you lost your mind yeah you lose your mind because you're like eating this stuff and then all of a sudden you realize like you can't stop because it's so good and you haven't eaten butter and sugar at that quantity combined together and so long and then all of a sudden you just totally lose your mind and looking back that probably would have been a good thing for you um you know like you could have easily yeah work you probably needed that energy that all those calories. Yeah, absolutely.

Now is not the time to eat that calorie. Back then, it would have been like, all right, let me go do a friend. I'll be fine. Do you want to come here? Right on, Travis Bash. You wrote a book, dude. Strength PhD.

Little Diesel's hanging out for a little bit. Do you want to wave to daddy's friends? Hey. Yeah, we're doing a podcast. Tell us about Strength PhD, man. Where did this come from? Well, it started out as just a book to help support our team at Lenoir-Ryan University. With COVID, it put us in kind of a bad predicament.

And going to the – it originally went to support us to go to American open because the school wasn't going to be able to support us due to the COVID, you know, being such a, you know, it's getting worse. It's such an alarming rate that, and the people were going to be flying into the American open. And so it just went against the protocol right now. So I was like, fine, I'll pay for it. And so I got with two of my professors, Dr. Cook and Dr. Lighting, and said, hey, man, let's put this book together just to help support the team.

And then, you know, we started writing it, and I saw how good their articles were. And so then I'm like, well, let's just make the coolest book ever to, you know, for the strength coach out there. If he reads this book, he will know enough science that he can get by. So like, um, that was the goal is that, you know, if you really read it and you really study it, then you'll have all you need to make all the good decisions. Mainly like, like thing I want strength coaches to do is to be able to just read something and discern if it's junk or not. Cause there's so much on the internet, like, you know, which junk or not because there's so much on the internet like you

know which is good but there's so much on the internet that's bad and so you need to be able to discern you know this is good stuff this is bad stuff and some of them just you can just tell in the in the things that they you know what they uh take on as good information you can tell what their background is you can say okay this dude has zero science or he wouldn't do that he's a good dude you know he's he really wants the best for his kids he just doesn't know any better so the whole point of this book is to make sure everyone that reads it knows better so well i'm excited it looks like there's a really good balance of of like all the academic stuff where you're like learning about like physics and impulse and velocity and and all the different

variables of training etc and then but the majority of it is like a sample example of programming right like you know 22 week long blocks of programming where you're not just looking at like a workout or like a like a one week like you're you're giving i don't know how many are in there you probably you probably know but there's probably like five or six big long programs in there that that are used as examples yeah i think there's five and there's one that's really crazy. Like, it's like Dr. Lighting wrote about the relationship between impulse and momentum, which is impulse is simply force times distance,

meaning how long do I apply a force. And it's directly related to momentum, which is simply mass times velocity, which almost accelerates. I mean, it's almost – momentum is almost – everything is almost force. So, like, that's – in the book, too, I answer the question about – I think I've answered it. Like, how strong is too strong? I think if you read the book, you'll get the answer.

It depends. There's a lot of variables in there. It's like – so, anyway, he does, he, he, he does the, this big long article about the relationship impulse momentum. And then he gives a sample workout of how to improve it. It's like, like 11 blocks or something. And like you do each block until you stop improving. And then, so it could last for, for a long, long time. And it's, it blew me away. His workout, like that dude is too smart. He's the dude that sits around and reads physics, you know,

for a Sunday afternoon. That's who he is. Justin, scrolling through this book, it's everything that I as a coach should have had. But I was like, why don't we just make it more fun? We don't need all this physics stuff. We don't need all these equations. I really should have been an exercise science degree

learning all these things. You should have. I grew up the exact opposite. It was like we are having fun, but we're not here to have fun. My coach was a mechanical engineer. He knows a lot about forces and physics because that's like his whole career and so i i learned weightlifting by basically every day like like looking at force

time curves and velocity time curves and and and all that like all all of the all of like the the visual displays of where you're at like pushing the force time curve to the left that's why we do olympic weightlifting so we can push this curve this way that way you know your vertical jump and your sprinting is higher even if you're not stronger like you're creating force more quickly rate of force development blah blah blah like i that was that was how i learned it from day one so i i always thought about weightlifting from like a physics standpoint i think after writing that book my favorite conversation to have is simply like how strong is too strong because you know people just throw out this random like not it's just nonsense it's like uh 1.7 times if you can squat 1.7 times

your body weight that's all you need i'm like that's all you need to get x i mean every single equation relates to force you cannot tell me that if i get strong it all depends on you know it really depends on what doug was saying that you know strong, it all depends on, you know, it really depends on what Doug was saying that, you know, that force velocity curve. It's like, you know, if you get stronger, you know, are you getting your, is your speed staying the same or getting better? If it is, then you're getting, you're getting, you're creating more power, period. If you get stronger and your speed gets slower, you know, velocity gets slower, then nothing

happened. I agree. So as long as, and then, you know, there's just so many variables. Strain energy. Strain is something that no one ever talks about strain energy. And to me, it's probably the most important when it comes to jumping high or running fast, which is like your tendon strength. So like when your foot strikes the ground, if your tendons are thick enough, obviously to handle the stress, but if they're strong enough to not move at all, then you're going to propel yourself like crazy.

And there are ways to actually train, which is in the book, to get faster, to increase more strain energy. Because strain energy is really, it's a formula. It's like the tendon tightness times how much bend in that tightness do you get. It's like a bow and arrow. If I pull it back a little bit, it's going to shoot. And it's X tightness. It's the exact same thing as a bow and arrow. But if I make that sucker as tight as possible and I still pull it way back,

then, my Lord, you're going to propel yourself down the field or track way more than someone else. And there's ways to improve that, but no one ever – I never hear someone talk about strain energy but they should they really should yeah i think mark mark for steak and talks not the exact same topic but something very similar he talks about snap like if you put your hand flat down on the table like you're palming the table and then you pull your middle finger up it like it automatically snaps back down toward the table because you

you get that rubber band type effect and that's that's essentially what you're talking about like it's not just pure conscious concentric muscular contraction that propels you forward you know that's why you do you know that's why you do counter movement jumps and you got muscle spindles and all that too that that add a little bit of extra contraction but yes the tendon elasticity the rubber band effect is very strong in any speed power sport you're gonna lose that a little bit like in you know bodybuilding crossfit or the kind of slower sports crossfit not as much as bodybuilding but uh but if you're like a football

player or or someone that just has to be explosive all the time like even a boxer then you need to train that even if i was a crossfitter i would work on strain energy because of the box jumps you know where you guys are always tearing your I would work on strain energy because of the box jumps. You know, where you guys are always tearing your Achilles, where, like, always on the box jumps getting torn. There's ways to train to, like, avoid that. You know, there's ways to increase the thickness of your tendon to where it's not going to tear, you know. But, you know, to avoid it or to do something different in a sport

where you need to be fast is probably not the best idea. The best idea would be to actually increase the thickness of your tendon and the strength. And then if you increase the tightness, your box jumps, for example, is just one thing, would be much faster. Or let's say you're not very good at double unders. You know, increasing the tendon tightness, especially at the ankle, would make you much better at double-unders. And so, you know, not just – of course, doing the double-unders would get better because you're timing that neural effect. And it would, by proxy, also increase tendon tightness.

However, there's a lot of other ways. There's a big, you know, I guess, workout that you can put together that would improve tendon tightness and thickness. So when you go and write a book, and there's, I'm almost positive, we've thrown out a couple examples already. And people are like, what in the world is, are those equations? And how am I ever going to use them? What is what is like the highest level of entry point of like what are the three most basic formulas that every coach like really needs to know to make sure people are training effectively and safely? I think power almost would be the only power, you know, which is just force times velocity. And so that would be the one that everyone needs to know, because especially if you a strength coach, not necessarily as a, obviously as a, you know,

CrossFitter, there's way many, you know, you need to know that one, but you also need to know, you know, what's someone's VO2 max as well. There's lots of variables, you know, what is someone's, you know, lactate threshold you would need to know. You need to know a lot of variables as a CrossFit coach. You should know, but like as a, you know, if you're just going to be a strength conditioning coach if you need the power equals force times velocity that would take you a long ways you know but there's a lot of other you i do believe everyone should know strain energy you know you need to know like

potential energy um potential energy and kinetic energy is just, all it is is like energy's relationship to height. So it's the gravitational pull. So obviously the higher I hold something or the higher I raise something up, the more potential energy it has. And whatever the potential energy, which is energy at rest, is equals to the kinetic energy. So you just need to know these. I make it really basic. If you read the book, it's not that rest. Yeah. It equals to the kinetic energy. So you just need to know these. I make it really basic.

If you read the book, it's not that hard. Totally. I'm super excited to actually read it myself. Mainly, I think one thing that's interesting, and like I said earlier, very little of what is in this book, I would imagine, is how I started doing what I'm doing today. Yeah.

I just did it because I love training and having fun. And in a way, I've always really outsourced in business. I never have to write programs. Because Doug, that guy over on that screen next to me, gangster. My old business partner, gangster. I'm always around the smartest people but very rarely the smartest and it's um many just in scrolling through it many of the definitions like i learned so much from you guys on the show and especially when we get to have these these talks because it's like your actual

work that gets put out but um definitions that people throw around all the time that they don't realize there's an actual scientific definition for like intensity. We're like, well, what's intense? I don't know. He's sweating really hard over there. Well, there's like a real thing. Okay. Well, what is load? How do we measure that? I feel like many people, especially if you're someone like me that trains and gets other people training just because you love doing it and it's super fun and you can be good at it um they need a resource like this and being able to actually provide the definition so they can have the real conversation of strength conditioning is is a really important asset it's it's kind of like, you don't have, have to be, um, you know,

like when we have like Galpin or any PhDs on here in order to have the actual conversation of strength and conditioning, you have to have the words and you have to know how to have the real language because, um, you could get really lost, um, using common terms that are in strength and conditioning, but using them completely incorrectly or without any basis. Happens all the time. Yeah.

Trust me. I was that guy for a long time. I still probably am many times. I'm sure there's moments where on this show where you guys are like, nope, he used the wrong word for sure. Not really. I tell you, I would, I would would like i would send you a little message yep got that one wrong buddy pretty good no i well i a lot of it is because i have to get better to

to be able to play with you guys like that's part of like i forced myself to do like i feel like i have a very comprehensive library now just scrolling through your book because i actually have to like in the amount of writing that i do and the amount of like um talking if you're not still studying and still trying to get better at the craft you kind of get lost in in just creating content I think that's one thing that so many people like really struggle with now it's just having that foundation like a basis for for moving forward and for me it's um it's going back and actually reading the science and reading articles and and doing long form kind of learning from books like this you know i tell you i got lucky too in this last semester like i've i've always known

the majority of these equations you know because of my undergrad but the dr lighting who's he's my biomechanics professor you know now in grad school he uh he really did a good job of like first he confused me i went through two weeks of not i couldn't remember my own name and like he he would eat two weeks in a row we had to learn 60. So 120 equations to the point where he's my friend too. And I was like, Dr. Lighting, I was like, are you telling me you could learn 120 equations in two weeks? And he's like, oh no. He's like, I just want, he's like, don't, don't worry. I'm going to bring it back. I'm like, okay. Cause I was so confused. He got, my brain was like on fire. And then he, he had us do this. I feel like even even at 37 years old if a teacher said that to me i

would be over there with my ti83 calculator trying to type in equations like oh i'm gonna forget this i gotta cheat somehow how am i gonna pass this test exactly what i was plotting i was like yeah i'm cheating this one you know it's online too i'm gonna figure a way i'm gonna sit next to that smart kid over there for sure yeah and so but he brought it back he had us do um where we had for each one of these main thing a lot most of them are in the book he uh we were to give an example and like talk about it and so i had two weeks to do that and so i really in those two weeks tried to take each thing and grasp it and then by the time it was over like i feel like now I can teach this stuff.

I'm confident I could teach it in a class. It was, he's the best teacher in all my lifetime. Like I've never met someone who was able to bring it back so well to where I'm like, I got it. And I mean, I had this shit for the, there's no way I'll forget it now. Like it was amazing what he did, you know, especially it's we're online COVID, you know? And so I just remember being in tears at the end of that second week. I was like, man, am I just too old? I started, I started asking myself, you know, and it's not logical what I was doing. I had a 99 in the class at the time. And I'm like,

I don't know any of this. I mean, I'm for this these younger people they're gonna get it and I can't and then all of a sudden was like this clouds parted and the sun shined down and I'm like I just wanted to go like take all my clothes off and go dance in the woods you know I did it yeah it was awesome uh well how would you you know once once a coach has this book how do you kind of recommend them i would imagine this is like the fire hose to the face once they actually look at all this and they go oh wow this is this is actually the basis for everything i've been doing um how how is kind of like a a path to putting that into a program and building? It's 200 pages here, so it's a lot to swallow. And then all of a sudden you look at your program for next week for your athletes

and you go, oh, shit. What do I do now? I would just take one of those programs at first and like try to just, you know, switch it around based on like, you know, your preferences. But then once you do that, the same thing that I just, you know, switch it around based on like, you know, your preferences. But then once you do that, the same thing that I did, you know, with, with Westside Barbell, the first time I did it, I did exactly like Louie wrote it. And then I started adding my own thing. And then the more I learned, the more I changed it to where it's evolved now.

You know, every year, if you watch my program, it's completely different than the year before because it evolves year in and year out, and it gets better and better and better. And so, you know, I would just start to do it, you know, kind of the way it is and then start. Once you grasp it, once you've read the book and grasp it, then you can be like, oh, I can do this too. There's a lot of ways you can go with it. You know, because remember when I wrote the book, I could have gone a million ways, but I had to choose one. So you've got to look at your clientele or your athletes,

or if it's for yourself, you've got to look at yourself and say, what do I need to focus on? Is it strain energy? Am I super fast but weak? Do I need to work on force? Am I super strong but slow? I need to work on velocity. So it's just like you can go a long

way but once you understand this stuff i feel like the power now is in your hands to do whatever you want and to do it in a way that you can like map out so yeah we mentioned science earlier and i feel like i feel like a lot of people talk about their programs being based on science like anytime you're in conversation like you you could easily say that like my programs like based on like sound um scientific principles etc etc but like but if you ask me like why imam aesthetics is good for hypertrophy i wouldn't be able to like cite the studies and the names of them and in the the researcher in the journal it was in and and all that even though if i like spent a little time researching i could find all kinds of articles that support the type of training that's

done in that program. But this, this book, when you say it's based on science, there's, I don't know, hundreds of references to, to all of those. Like it's like every other sentence there's a, there's a citation for the scientific article that supports that. So this, you're not just saying that, like there's, there's a fantastic amount of yeah scientific research and and whatnot that has gone into uh validating the concepts here if you try to refute one of those you should pack a lunch because i am well prepared to refute you know anything you say to me so like get ready

yeah every time i hear evidence-based i go oh like at the base level if you pick up heavy shit your body will adapt to it like it means nothing yeah like it means nothing to say oh yeah my program's definitely oh it's because you wrote five by five is that what could you please explain that to me i am i'm lost in your science-based solution to what? That your program looks just like everyone else's, where if you just put a little more weight on the bar, but your marketing sounds great. I started because of Twitter. I had a Twitter debate about how strong is too strong.

And then I obliterated this guy. And then I'm like, I need like teach people you know i'm like you know and then i was like because like as i'm arguing i start to see by his comments he has nothing like he has no basis for anything but what was he what was he actually saying not that we need to give that 1.7 times is i was like based on what oh he was yeah yeah like what are you basing this off bruh you know i mean like mean, like, because we all know Ben Johnson could squat, like, three times his body weight. Michael Johnson, the 200 and 400-kilo guy, could squat 500.

I guarantee he did not weigh 200 pounds. So, like, there's a two – at least – let's say he weighed 200. That was at least 2.5 times body weight. So, like, what are you basing this off of? Here's the thing. It comes down to that argument is simply, like, if someone gets so strong that to get any stronger, it takes away from the time they have to do these other things. Agreed, then.

You know, so let's say that I squat 600 pounds, which Barry Sanders, the greatest running back of all time, could squat 600 in a way that he was worried about velocity. So, I mean, it wasn't his max. But so 600 pounds. And let's say that to get to 610, I'm going to have to do X volume, and I only have this much time to do these other things. And so then, yeah, I agree. If you have to, like, take away from sprinting or practicing football to get

to 610, then it becomes too much. And so then I agree. Or if you have to take away from your power development, or aka velocity, because you're getting so strong, then I agree. So, like, you know, what happens, I should say, is, like, we run out of time to do all the things we need. Not to just say to these coaches, you know, the reason why I'm so passionate is because you get these coaches,

these high school coaches, like the one we talked to last week. Wait, I'm so confused with holidays. We talked to him on Tuesday. Yesterday felt like a Friday. It was at Williston. Yeah, Blaine Lapid. Yeah, he hears this guy, and he's like, okay, so 1.7, we should stop. No, no, Bl blaine don't stop and so like so like i'm trying to like

teach these younger coaches about you know no if if this happens yes but if not if you still have plenty of time to sprint and to get stronger then sprint and get stronger yeah i feel like that's time but like ability to recover as well it's like if you're putting in all the volume you need to on sprinting but then you're also doing you the volume you need to on sprinting but then you're also doing you know say you already squat two at two and a half times body weight or 3x body weight like you can you can back down your volume on squatting keep keep the strength but you only have so much time to recover so much ability to recover right and so you might as well use that recovery ability to to work on the thing that's most important which in this example is speed

right that's and that's what i say i even at that point, instead of just saying, okay, you don't have to squat anymore, let's worry about velocity. Let's like, you know, then it's time to do that force velocity, you know, to do a, you know, do a curve and do a strength curve, which means, you know, the way to do that is simply to, to max out and do it by 5% increments and to see where in there are you, you know, there's my man, Brian Mann has done a great job. If you Google velocity-based training Brian Mann,

there'll be this beautiful chart that will come up. They'll tell you how fast you should be doing. If you're at 60%, you should be at 0.75 times, you know, 0.75 meters per second or faster. If you're at 50%, you should be, be you know 0.85 or faster anyway he's done that chart for you so you see we're along that line where you are not meeting those you know recommendations and that's what you focus on so you just got uh i wouldn't say just anymore it's probably been five six months you've been playing with the velocity thing it's probably been five, six months. You've been playing with the velocity thing as like a real metric outside of

just eyeballing saying, Oh, that's fast. Or, Oh, that's slow. Do you feel like that is almost like a necessary piece to understanding the complete picture when, when coaches are sitting down with athletes now, I would say, here's what I feel about that. I feel like if you do not grasp velocity now in a decade, you'll be obsolete. That's what I feel about that I feel like if you do not grasp velocity now in a decade you'll be obsolete that's what I think in 10 years from now if you have not if you're if you're the dude who puts your foot down and draws a line in sand be like I don't need velocity in 10 years you will

be obsolete and you'll be complaining about like oh these new age people think they're so smart and that you'll just be dumb is what it'll be so like if i were any of you coaches out there you should grasp it like you know louis simmons have been talking about it for years yeah he's on him he's he's been telling us for two decades now that we should be learning this he's right in 10 years from now you will be obsolete you'll be obsolete in the weightlifting world powerlifting world i think definitely the strict conditioning world you know i think even withFit, I would want to know. Because that's one of the many variables you need to know as a CrossFit coach. So, yeah, you better dig on that.

And shout out to GymAware and Flex. Use code MASS5 for 10%. There it is. There it is. Well, what is that little unit? I mean, people may not have heard us talk about it in the past, but how do you use that unit and and how it applies to just training in general well the flex one is awesome because

it is it's it's only um with the discount it's like 400 or something so it's like it's doable you know the gym wear is a little expensive it's over two grand and so but but if you're if you're at a big school you should definitely get one. But, yeah, it's super easy. Put it on the end of the bar. Even if you slam it. I mean, you know, I've had Ryan and Matt both slam a bar, and it doesn't come off. Have you ever tested their velocity on the way down,

how hard they throw that bar to the ground? It measures it. Yeah, it measures it. That's awesome. It's a lot faster. Gravity helps a little bit. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So, yeah yeah i'm working on a thing

now like an analysis of the clean which i'll you know i'll send it to you guys but it's like really cool because like you know through the pull like there's a moment where it decelerates so when you're pulling the clean and then you you know yeah right when you get past your knees yeah yeah when you that's a transition exactly Exactly. Yeah. Slows down. And then, then of course accelerates at the tip top. And then it really accelerates on the way down. And so it's like, well, it doesn't really accelerate. That's really deceleration, but because you're pulling it is fast. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That, when I went to my USA weightlifting,

what is it like sports performance coach or something like that, the level one, that was the first time I had ever really even dug into any of the graphs and measuring the speed of the bars. That was really cool for me because all I cared about was lifting well. I'd never dug into any of the like strength curves and and seeing the the the force on the bar velocity any of that stuff i didn't even know that world existed until i showed up to the level one i love the way lifting usa w is you know they are so good at like the i think weightlifting has been ahead of the curve of a lot of sports because of you know you had garhammer who i'm reading a ton right now from, from Garhammer and from Roman. I'm sure Doug has heard all these names, but, you know, Roman did a ton of velocity

where way back in the day, this is super old. This is back in the, you know, when the original Russian manuals were translated by that crazy guy in Michigan. But anyway, so he did all the different velocities. Then I, then I found another dude who did velocity, but Gary Hammer was a guy who did a lot of the biomechanics in weightlifting and he's Sean Waxman's coach and professor. And so I'm reading a ton right now from Gary Hammer.

So I'm about to make it, but my goal is to make it simpler. You know, those dudes, it's important that, you know, they have to write in a very scientific way. So my goal is to like take that and bring it to the common person that can i want the very basic of coach to be able to understand these things a little bit easier so i'm right now i'm working on something cool about that very thing about making the snatch the clean the jerk super simple but yet know exactly what should happen so yeah back in 2005 when i was in when i was just about to graduate senior senior in college i was doing my senior project and i did the biomechanics of snatching as my senior project and as a part of that i read all garhammer stuff

back then i used to see him at nsa all the time he was like the old dude that was still back there doing power cleans yeah i was like i want to be just like that dude. That dude's like 60 years old. He's in here doing power cleans with us. Yeah. I'm like sharing the, sharing the platform with him with, at the Aleko booth, got NSCA.

I'm reading right now because, you know, I don't know if you know, but like, um, Don McCauley, the coach, he used to coach for me,

um, passed away, rest in peace. But him and Waxman and Garhammer used to argue like crazy because, uh, you know, like they were all, they're all about the very, but you know, like, you know, extend, plantar flex, all these things. That's what Waxman and Garhammer are about. And and Don is more about like, you know, the minute your hips open, you should be trying to get around the bar.

So it's such a small thing that really is so irrelevant. And one time I wrote an article saying how irrelevant this argument was and then they both got mad at me but i was trying to like bring peace the whole thing and then they even got mad at me for trying to bring peace like those are dudes who wanted to fight like they did not want me to make peace and i'm like and i love both of them and so i've learned from both of them and i was trying to, but they, they were, did not want any part of peace. So, but I tried, I think. Is that one of the situations where really they're talking about the, do you planter flex or not? Like how, how,

how long do you wait until you start pulling under the bar? But like, I feel like you might think about it differently, but then if you go just like watch recordings of, of all of their lifters, like they all kind of still look the same. Do you think that they actually perform differently? They all kind of still look the same. Yeah. Do you think they actually perform differently? They're doing the same thing out there, but they're kind of just thinking about it differently,

but like in reality, the physical body is moving the same way. That was my point, Doug. Exactly. That's what I was trying to tell them both, but these lifters aren't listening to any of this bullshit. They don't care at all what you're thinking about. They're going to try to pull the bar as high as they can and get under as fast as they can that's all they're thinking you

know no athlete while they're standing over the bar is thinking about any of that stuff they don't even if i said matt ryan i need you to focus on plantar flexion they'd be like what they wouldn't even know what i was talking about i'm actually really interested uh to ask both of you this but when did you start i guess doug kind of answered a little bit earlier but like when did you start making the transition from athlete that doesn't really um that stands over the bar and tries to deadlift as much as possible um into oh here's the science behind all this stuff and like going down that rabbit hole along with the performance side. 2007, I was 34 when I made the – when I stopped,

what I considered was my last pro power to me. And then I started like really caring more about coaching. Yeah. And then that was the first thing is going back and like really caring more about um coaching yeah yeah and then and then go and then that was the first thing is going back and like really digging into like exercise science and stuff from college that you probably just didn't care at all about you're just like so it's exercise i like exercise so i'll go to that class that's exactly what happened right yeah that would be me in college i'm like i don't know they say i can work out while I do this, so I'll just do exercise science,

which I did, and I did business, which was even more of a joke. That was a joke in college. I just didn't care. All I cared about was football and women. Yeah. I made sure how many girls I could get. That's definitely what I cared about, but I should have done both. I think doing exercise, phys, and business together is a great combination. I do do too.

The fitness world, unless you own a company, it's tough to make any real money. If you're MASH, you've got four kids. I've got three kids. If I'm just a personal trainer, I'm smashed all day long, and then I'm not really making a whole lot of money unless I'm training Ben Bruno, know Ben Bruno like you know really wealthy clientele and I have really amazing rates but like most personal trainers are making like a pretty modest living yeah so you kind of have to be a business owner to be able to you know have a real income where you're supporting your family and luckily these days it's easier than ever to be a business owner because we all have our own individual things online but uh if if wasn't for the internet and i had to like like run a real company like like a gym like even running a gym

is tough like i feel like you don't have a business background if you don't have a business background you don't really have control over your life yeah you'll be you'll be broke is exactly or you'll be you know the strength conditioning world but you know um how do i say this and not make friends but like man like it's hard to have a family in that world but you know um how do i say this and not make friends but like man like it's hard to have a family in that world because you're literally working from 5 a.m until whenever at night they want you to go home it takes you 15 years before you even get the job that you like yeah yeah like you made no money like literally like your first year to you might make zero you might pay pay them. This is an internship.

My buddy was a football coach at UCLA. That was how he, like, told me he was his job. And then we went up there and hung out with him, and it was like, oh, you sleep in the locker room. It's a really nice locker room. Great showers, warm water. You can brush your teeth. It's giant.

I've been in there it looks awesome but you don't want to be sleeping in there with your wife you don't want to be sleeping in there with your kids no you don't want to be the first person that has to set up film you basically wake up get the gym ready get the locker room ready then everybody shows up and then hopefully you will have cut all the film the night before for the coaches. It's like, how long do you do this before you realize you have to have a real life? It's like at least a five-year process almost to gain the respect of somebody to get out of there. I'm so with you on all that. I could not bring myself to do that.

I'm not going to work. Plus, I still want to be an athlete. So I realized if I made that move so many times times almost took that dive in the strength conditioning i'm like man there's no way i'll be able to train them out i need to train and like do that world and so like it's super interesting doug that you said you were talking about the business side of it because i feel like um i have 23 24 years of experience underneath barbells and coached a couple thousand people from the gym to however many people we talk to every day on here, whatever, like your influence in whatever strength conditioning, CrossFit, fitness field. And then sometimes when I see a

book like this, or I see like people with their CSCS and some kid coming out of school and I'm like, I wonder if that person's more qualified than I am. Like, I'll make sure that training is enough fun that everybody shows up every single day. But then I like see stuff like this. And I'm like, what if I'm hireable?

I really wonder sometimes if I'm hireable. Oh, you are experience matters. And the fact that I can just tell by the way you talk. You've never said anything where I thought, oh, that's dumb. Never once. And so, like, I definitely, when I talk to someone, I am checking off. But, like, sometimes when I look at, like, kids that come out,

I truly believe that one of the biggest flaws of the CrossFit program is that they don't have a test that is like the CSCS where you have to be dialed in on exercise science, basic phys, basic anatomy, basic like movement patterns and just energy systems. Yeah. Like none of that stuff exists. It's just, it's purely, that's, it's one of the reasons I loved it so much. It was like, wait, I go get that certification. And I just kind of like put a little bit of like coaching behind the stuff I already know. Let's do it. That's easy. I don't have to study for that. And it, it leads to, or it led to a ton of backlash because everybody that was in that field already that was teaching snatches and cleans, you know,

is sitting there doing their cscs trying to talk about the science of getting better glassman came in was like our people get a lot more done than yours do in the same amount of time so we win and everybody everybody just drew back their arrow was like come at me yeah yeah you need to know you need to know the basics you need to know you know the energy you need to know energy systems you need to know you need to know the basics you need to you know the energy you need to know energy systems you need to know like you know the basic biomechanics you need to know uh physiology and you know well physiology would cover the whole energy systems if you knew the basics of physiology and the basics of biomechanics i think you could do what you needed to do so if you took two classes

and really like dug in, I think you would be prepared to be a good coach. As long as you knew how to teach people, you know, how to do proper muscle ups, how to do proper pull ups. Yeah. I think also people hide behind that weakness too. Like I force myself because of the amount of writing that I do. And it turns into like, I'll write an awesome article that I'm super proud of. And then I go, ah, I gotta go.

I gotta go do all the fact checking on myself, which leads to like a couple 30, 45 minutes to an hour of just like research, which is awesome. It's not really like, uh, um, I think so many people people maybe not even so many

people but for me if you're on instagram and you're just writing because you have to post something for the day it's kind of that stuff it just doesn't have like the depth to it but when i write an article to our list and i'm like talking about hypertrophy and it's like, ah, now I got to go back. I got to go read Beardsley's boring ass articles on hypertrophy. Yeah, awesome. I got to go back and do all of it because if I write something to all these people and it's wrong, you just lose credibility. Like it's, it sucks because you're, you're not trying to be malicious in the content you put out when you just post something on Instagram. You're like,

this is how you get jacked or for exercise. It's like to go on the internet and like do the research and just don't hit send yet. Like just don't hit send. Now you have a cheat sheet with book because chat, because chapter two is the science of hypertrophy training, and there's got to be like 30 or 50 references at the end of that chapter. Yeah. You don't cheat off of him.

Yeah. Right? I want you to cheat off me. That's exactly why I wrote it. Everything I do, I want you to cheat off me. And then don't – and then go do your own research too you know like try to get better like i just i want to die knowing i did a little something to to make this industry a little bit better you know like i feel like earlier when i like when i first met barbara shrug like in 2013

like i feel like things have changed so much since then in seven years things have gotten way more science-based and i think um the people who changed with it have continued to grow like barbara shrug i think there's certain people in our industry friends of ours i think have not changed i feel like they are getting left behind you know they keep talking about you know whatever they want to talk about and like you know like people now like because of guys like you know uh greg knuckles like no longer will people buy into whatever you want to say. They're going to be like, no, that's not true. They're going to see if what you're saying, is there any basis to what you're saying?

Or are you just making this shit up? Are you just trying to sell us this new age stuff that you think is cool, but there's no science to it? You can't do it anymore. There's too many people like Galpin and Lane Norton and Greg Knuckles who are giving science-based stuff to the people out there. So you either change with them or get left behind. I think it's happened a lot lately. I think that that's one of the coolest things that I have. After, and I'm sure, Mash, you would even be able to –

you've been lifting weights for a decade longer than we have. And one of the coolest things, just in the 10 years that I've been entrepreneur, like actually getting paid to coach people and do fitness at a professional level, those guys, Lane, Galp, I could probably name a bunch of them if I had my Instagram account up. The fact that there are PhDs that are in the lab and they're cool is hands down one of the coolest parts about the last decade of fitness to me like galpin everybody everybody that did fitness before this was a marketer right they weren't scientists they weren't in the lab you're right they were writing books like all of the all of the scientists were in the lab writing books about all this stuff for other scientists yeah but nobody thought they were cool now you've got people that are like legit cool they've got great personalities they per they provide real science and entertaining ways and you can sit there and listen to them for

hours because what they talk about actually connects with what people are doing on a daily basis and it's fun. Science for the first time. Yeah. People like him, you look at him, you're like, I want to be exactly like him and we all know why, you know, but like, you know, yeah, they're cool now. Yeah. They are cool. Yeah.

The fact that somebody like Contreras who did some crazy little exercise and got a cramp in his glutes and then turned it into like the number one source in growing ass is insane to me. Me too, man. Like the fact that that's a possibility is wild. Like you could go be the bicep guy and all the dudes in the world would be doing double bicep poses because you know how to target biceps better than everyone else somebody's got to go and do the research guaranteed there's gonna

somebody's like oh yeah this is gonna be the bicep guy now i don't have any of me to just focus everybody that yeah well that's also true like there's there's a real need in our world i think doug you talk about this with like teachers in america it's like why do we have tens of thousands of teachers we should have like 50 teachers that are the best in the world at what they do and go online and and teach that specific subject and now we just have the best physics teacher for everyone in high school like who was the best or the top five but like we we know who the best glute scientist is that is doing doing all of the research on glute science there's a singular person that is the resource that has has done the tests in the lab and he's got all the clients to back it up like that's a wild thing that we can all do now. For Andy, I know if Andy Galpin is listening to this show,

I know it's biceps. I know, I know. Galpin is the bicep guy. Yeah, you got to say with S, you got to say biceps. I guess I was listening to one of his YouTube, and he's right i know there's not a bicep muscle yeah the bi part gets you yeah yeah i'm sorry man um well dude i want to talk about the hypertrophy piece of it what's uh where do you where do you start that because if i'm paying enough attention to galp and it sounds like everything we thought

we knew we have like this high level mechanical tension um really the mechanical tension is what's up um all of it counts all that matters but yeah but then there's like another four hour long lecture that he's got on the back end of that so how how deep did you go into muscle hypertrophy i i didn't. Dr. Cook did, who's done a ton of his own research on hypertrophy, and it all matches up with what Andy said. It's just to make it simple. Volume is the most important, meaning how much volume can one do to as close to failure as possible without going over?

So how hard can you work your muscle and how often so like if i don't go quite to failure i can probably work it again in two or three days and work it again in two or three days so like that's really that's really what's up and then once in a while sprinkling you know some you know to failure would not be a terrible idea uh in the book the opportunity is going to tell you like um sex is going to tell you, like, what kind of hypertrophy is probably going to, you know, grow the fast twitch, what's going to grow slow twitch. For some people, that's super important. You know, I think he might mention sarcoplasmic versus myofibril, you know, like, you know, but it's, you know, one thing that intrigues me the most is velocity, the fact that you know the speed especially of the eccentric you know the faster the rep is the more hypertrophy i'm assuming because you know you got

to like now you got to absorb that and change directions it has something to do with it but it's good to know too that velocity is important to hypertrophy um but and also i put two so the faster the eccentric the faster the eccentric yeah. Yeah, I know what you're thinking. You're thinking like me too. You're thinking slow eccentrics, muscle damage. Bodybuilding tempo type stuff. But tempo is probably – all that is really is just a way to – that is nothing but another way to increase volume.

Is that why RDLs hurt so bad? Because you can kind of move through RDLs pretty easily on the eccentric piece? I would probably – yeah, you don't want to go too fast on RDLs. But, like, other things, like, you know, I know – Trying to think of, like – Talk about, you know, the bench going as fast down because, you know, you're going to – your tendons, too, are going to have to, you know, absorb a whole lot more energy.

And, like, you get all that stored energy from the speed of the essential yeah and then turn it around and like things have to adapt because of the speed you know as you you put more and more weight on and go faster and faster your tendons and ligaments and muscles have to adapt to be able to handle that you know but yeah so it's the speed well where does that part yeah i guess it's when i think about the speed in that so it's the speed. Well, where does that – Crazy part. Yeah. I guess when I think about the speed in that way, it's like bouncing deadlifts at some point. We're just taking all the tension off the muscle. Under control though.

Let me rephrase that. As fast as you can, under control. So no bouncing deadlifts. That's what I was thinking an RDL would be so awesome. If you're around like 70%, that was like the first thing that popped in my brain because you can really control how fast you're going down but there's no way that you're going to be bouncing it off your chest or bouncing it off the ground or you have to control the weight

the entire time you can't just fully deload to the bottom on the eccentric piece yeah then if you're benching and bouncing off your chest it's like it's really just inner abdominal pressure balance it's like hitting a balloon and man i feel like that i just learned something and just thinking about all the exercises that make me the most sore it's because of speed in the eccentric piece it's like like like lunges when you're like just walking them out you're doing that very quickly, whether you realize it or not. Just getting that back knee all the way down, and all of a sudden you wake up and you just can't walk the next day. I never thought about that, but you're exactly right.

On the lunges, that's probably one of the fastest, faster eccentric movements, and it wrecks you. Louis talked about it forever, especially on the squats, on the dynamic squats, to go fast. I never really bought into it, so I look back and i think that's one thing i was down that you know like i should have gone the best pitcher i've ever seen george halbert his dynamic benches were truly he's one of the few people who could do exactly what louis was saying he could go really fast on the way down not bounce and still and then it would transfer into super fast, and that dude

was like, I remember watching him bench and thinking, the most incredible thing I've ever seen, he could do for days, he was a 220 pound lifter, he was in my weight class, he could bench over 600 without a bench shirt with ease, and like, I saw, his last warm-up would be 600 in the back room, so he wasn't trying to come close to maxing out. I remember just being like, this dude is just phenomenal. Now I think about it, if I go really fast the way down, it's super hard for me to decelerate

it, change directions without bouncing. I think that was a weakness I had then. I think I could have been even better at benching if I listened to the way I thought. You think about all the crossfitters that try and destroy their abs doing GHD sit-ups, the amount of speed

that's going into that eccentric trying to catch your body as you fold in half backwards. Another reason why that exercise to me is like the most, I think that's one of the most dangerous exercises on the planet Earth. Yeah, I can tell you.

That actually has like three things going for it that makes people really sore like exactly what we're talking about where it's a high speed eccentric high speed deceleration because you're going fast and then also you're going through much more range of motion than you are normally doing when you're doing ab things because you're going into like full global extension and then also we talk about this with rdls and like pec flies like when you do a movement where when the muscle is actively lengthened that's also when it hits peak tension you tend to get the most sore from those exercises so you also do that with ghg sit-ups like right when you get back kind of parallel to the ground

or right below parallel to the ground like that's when you're at peak tension so you're at peak tension when the muscles are fully lengthened you're decelerating very very quickly and you're at peak tension so you're at peak tension when the muscles are fully lengthened you're decelerating very very quickly and you're going through a much longer range of motion than you're used to going through and just all those things add up to being very very sore rabdo city baby rabdo the clown i did that what is it no that's puking the clown that us the other thing yeah i have been i did i i was sore for like 30 to 40 days after doing 150 ghds where i like literally had to go back and rebuild all of my core because it it was just like that accordion just ripping and contracting back and forth after doing a workout like i had no idea what i was doing and like just kind of like

fighting through it yeah you can there's like a weird i don't know what i know what it's your psoas originates in your lower spine and it's a hip flexor it's like so bad to do this thing like i know i would love to um spirit mcgill i would love to watch him his face watching people compete at those he would be like it would be so it would be funny yeah um yeah can i mention about about um lenore ryan i'd like to say i am very i'm excited that i'm out of school where we talked about it we already talked about like the importance of exercise science and business that They're starting to do that progressively. They're starting to teach people about branding. They're wanting me to teach a social media branding class,

which I'm super excited. So they're doing that. And it's important to me, too, that any of my weightlifters, if they're an exercise science major, I'm going to teach them business, whether they want me to or not. They'll thank me later. But teaching to teach them business, you know, whether they want me to or not, they'll thank me later, you know, but like teaching them about, you know, especially branding, social media, you know, creating, you know, finding a niche in the market.

So I want to teach all those things to my, to my weightlifters. And then in class, I hope someday, I hope that's a class I get to teach. Yeah. Where can they find? Oh, go ahead. Before I wrap this up, I just want to give like a super high level overview of this book so we've covered many many things but like just read through this table of contents real quick because it's a rad table of contents so there's the science of hypertrophy training which again is like heavily referenced impulse momentum relationship for athletic performance mechanical foundation for strength

and conditioning coaches a brief nutrition guide for hypertrophy, Olympic weightlifting program, and entry-level weight training to improve impulse. There's movement explanation videos. There's a powerlifting program, a super total program, athletic performance program, and a bodybuilding program. So you're getting a lot in this 200K. Oh, I should probably ask you guys now.

I use a lot of your videos, Doug. I hope that's okay. Totally okay. Plug in Barbell Shrug. Thank you. Every video I wanted to use, if I didn't have it, I would, you know, Barbell Shrug, RDL. If there was one you did, then I used you guys.

Oh, I appreciate it. Where can people find the book? How long is it on sale for this is going up monday it's friday today this goes on monday you're gonna have until i think thursday to get it so you'll have a few days maybe we'll extend it because of this show but you know but it's going to be master elite backslash or was that forward slash when it's like this. PhD something. Slash PhD. That's it. Mash Elite slash PhD. That's it. Beautiful.

Yeah. Forward slash whatever. Yeah. All right. Mash Elite forward slash PhD. The one that goes to the left. Whatever. Just get into the show notes.

It's in there. If you go to mashelete.com, it will come up anyway. I love it. Let's talk about the new book, and then we don't even know how to tell people to get it. Is that a forward slash? The one that cuts to the left, is that a forward slash? Yeah, it is forward

slash. I know that because when I used to do ad reads, I would be like, backslash, and I had multiple people reach out and go, dude, it's a forward slash. I'm like, yep, I don't do the internet well. Better at back squats than the internet. Just PhD, Mashley forward slash PhD.

Mashley.com forward slash PhD. Doug Larson. You bet. Find me on Instagram. Douglas C. Larson. Go buy this book. It looks rad. I'm super excited about it.

I have a little reference tool now. I'm Anders Varner at Anders Varner. We are Barbell Shrugged at Barbell underscore Shrugged. BarbellShrugged.com forward slash store. Get in there. Black Friday finishes today. 40% off using the code BLACK40. B-L-A-C-K at 4-0.

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Go to fund his Olympic weightlifting team at Lenore Ryan University. Our friends at Bioptimizers, the magnesium breakthrough, bioptimizers.com, forward slash shrug, use the code shrug10 to save an additional 10% and get 40% off the magnesium breakthrough. And our friends over at InsideTracker,

InsideTracker.com. Use the code SHRUG200 to save $200 off the ultimate plan. And make sure you are getting over to Organifi.com forward slash shrug because that is where all the magic happens. Organifi.com forward slash shrug to save 20%. Friends, we'll see you all Wednesday. We got Dr. John Rusin in the house, and it's gonna be a fun one.