Barbell Shrugged - Strength Training for Warriors w/ Senior Master Sergeant Trent Seegmiller, Anders Varner, Doug Larson, and Coach Travis Mash - Barbell Shrugged #570

Episode Date: April 21, 2021

The outcome of any military mission often comes down to the quality of intelligence acquired beforehand. That’s where Air Force Special Reconnaissance comes in. These highly trained Airmen are the ones who go behind enemy lines to provide it. On the next installment of the Barbell Shrugged podcast Anders Verner sits down with Senior Master Sergeant Trent Seegmiller, a member of this elite Special Warfare team. Hear how they deploy by air, land, and see to reach some of the most remote and dangerous locations on earth to prepare for battle and help secure a successful result. Anyplace, anytime, anywhere is more than a motto, it’s how they approach their job and what sets them apart. To learn more about Special Warfare, visit at airforce.com and make sure to check out the latest Barbell Shrugged podcast available at barbellshrugged.com.   In this Episode of Barbell Shrugged:   What goes into a special warfare team Training for war  Special warfare’s role in the military Preparing for combat in the gym What are the physical demands of training for special warfare   Anders Varner on Instagram   Doug Larson on Instagram   Coach Travis Mash on Instagram   ————————————————   Diesel Dad Training Programs: http://barbellshrugged.com/dieseldad   Training Programs to Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/34zcGVw   Nutrition Programs to Lose Fat and Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/3eiW8FF   Nutrition and Training Bundles to Save 67%: https://bit.ly/2yaxQxa   Please Support Our Sponsors   U.S. Air Force. Find out if you do at airforce.com.   Organifi - Save 20% using code: “Shrugged” at organifi.com/shrugged   BiOptimizers Probitotics - Save 10% at bioptimizers.com/shrugged   Garage Gym Equipment and Accessories: https://prxperformance.com/discount/BBS5OFF Save 5% using the coupon code “BBS5OFF”

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This week on Barbell Shrugged, hanging out with our friends over at the Air Force. Again, the outcome of any military mission often comes down to the quality of intelligence acquired beforehand. That's where Air Force Special Reconnaissance comes in. These highly trained airmen are the ones who go behind enemy lines to provide it. On the next installment, that's today, we sit down with Senior Master Sergeant Trent Segmiller, a member of the elite special warfare team. Hear how he deploys by air, land, and sea to reach some of the most remote and dangerous locations on Earth and prepare for battle to help secure a successful result. Anyplace, anytime, anywhere is more than a motto.

It's how they approach their job and what sets them apart. To learn more about the special warfare, visit airforce.com. And make sure you tune into this show to learn everything U.S. Air Force. Make sure you go to airforce.com. I also want to thank our friends over at Organifi. Of course, the green, the red, the gold. Do you know what I did this morning

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I'm Andrew Smarner, Doug Larson. Coach Travis Mass is going to be popping in here at some point. He's probably out coaching some of the strongest people on this planet right now. And he's going to be popping in. So if you see the world's strongest man pop on here, that's Coach Travis Mast. We are hanging out with Master Sergeant Trent Segmiller. You're out in San Antonio where we're supposed to be right now. I've never really been jealous of anybody that's in San Antonio

until I'm doing a podcast with you just wishing we were all in the same room. Right. No, it's a wonderful place. Everybody should come out here. United States Air Force, my notes say here that you have all aspects of fitness covered. So you're the man. You're the one in charge of getting everybody qualified to be in special operations. How did you land in this role? I've been in San Antonio since 2015. I came off team and was an instructor at the Combat Control and Savatee Selection Course. And then I ended up at the prep course when we stood that up,

designed to help everybody be more successful during their selection portions. And then I moved up into a staff role. So right now I'm sitting behind a desk helping advocate for any changes that anybody needs at the higher headquarters level. So you were on the teams? Is that what you guys call them? Yes. So I was stationed.

My last assignment before coming to AATC was out of the 2-3 STS at Hurlburt Field. Hold on a second. You got to slow down with all these acronyms. Us normal people don't understand any of that mess. The Special Tactics Squadron, the 23rd Special Tactics Squadron at Hurlburt Field. Hurlburt Field.

Are we allowed to talk about your experience in these teams with all the letters and numbers? Yeah. What do you want to know? I don't know. This is the exciting part. I feel like you're like a superhero. What was your actual role?

Before my career field changed over to special reconnaissance, we used to be special operations weather. So on my last deployment, I was the special operations weather guy. I had an airfield qualification to perform surveys overseas on airfields as we set up for further advancements into areas. And then I was also the team sergeant for that. Wait, you said weatherman? I was. You're like one of the baddest humans on the planet. You're telling the weather?

You got to explain to me what the weather, I know that this is probably like a massively important role that you spent years and years preparing for. But I know people listening, including me talking to you. When you hear weatherman, someone's like, wait, hold on a second. Special operations weatherman? Yes, the jokes were always super original and I loved every one of them.

Was mine original? Yes, it was amazing. I love the cliche joke. So just like special reconnaissance, if you need data forward in the battle space, whether that's, that's, um, data about the landscape or about the weather or about the, the enemy size of force and capabilities, uh, you're going to have to put some bodies out there eventually, um, satellites and all the technology can only do so much. Um, so that was

our job. Our job was to, uh, attach to whoever we need to attach to and go out there and, uh, help that team do whatever they were doing and also send back the data that was pertinent to the the higher headquarters folks doing all the planning um digging into like way back when you actually decided to become go into special operations what what was that decision what was the training like the the decision was i didn't want to be – I don't want to cast shade on anybody. I just didn't want to be – You can't offend anybody on Barbell Shrugged. It's impossible.

So I joined the military. I joined the Air Force, and I went through basic training, and I felt like I had more. And then I ended up in conventional weather, and while that was challenging in its own right, I felt I had more. So I cross-trained over into special conventional weather. And while that was challenging in its own right, I felt I had more. So I cross trained over into special operations weather. And just like everything else, it's the running, the rucking, the swimming and everything else like that. And really just the challenge and seeing if I could do it and paint myself into that corner. You know, one of the strategies I've used for most of my life is I tell everybody I'm going to do something. And then I

have to do it. I at least have to try and you know, the old college try. Um, so that was really the impetus to get in there and see what I was made of. Has the training evolved much since you were in there? Like when you first started, was the training similar to how the training is now or has it evolved quite a bit? Cause I feel like strength conditioning as a whole over the last 10 or 15

years really has evolved a lot. Right. So instead of running our selection courses the way we used to, we now have a prep course. We have an eight week prep course over at the Special Warfare Training Wing here in Lackland. So you graduate from basic training and we take you over there for eight weeks and we're going to increase your physical capability and then also get after those mental stressors and let you know what's coming down the pipe so that they can be more prepared physically and mentally for the selection courses and the dive courses and everything like that. Back in the day, I'm sure you can talk to any of the older guys. It's, you know, run faster, rub some dirt on it, you know, take an E and face out, you know, keep moving're, we're trying to incorporate a lot of science, um, a lot of nutrition, every, every, every piece of data that we can gather

to make our people more successful. That's what we're trying to do. And we're moving forward in that direction. And you've seen certainly any, sorry, certainly any physical training, there's a big mental toughness component to it, but do you guys, what do you guys do specifically for the mental component independent of the physical training? Just like anything else, you're going to make people cold and wet and uncomfortable and keep them up and see how to deal with it. Why does cold always have to be a part of it? I don't know. Cold weather and sleep deprivation.

It's always got to be a part of it. Right. reservation it's always got to be a part of it right so i mean when you talk about fitness you talk about the the air force special warfare community or any of the special ops communities what we what we're looking at is where that fitness meets capability right and whether uh like a lot of people say stuff like tactical athlete and i think that's that applies but i think that only tells half the story because not only do i want to see if you can do these reps and do these exercises but then i'm going to need the application on the back end of that, which is going to take a lot of your grit and determination and mental toughness to be successful. Yeah. Do you remember any of those, any of those days? Was there ever a moment where you're like, I'm about to mail this thing in? I can't be any colder with less sleep and I can't keep doing this.

Did you almost quit? I can remember times I was on an overland movement and I was about 150 pounds at the time, maybe a little less because I've been training for a while. And we were rucking and it had been raining for three days straight. So, you know, like where the ruck rubs on the bottom of your back, all that skin starts to go and you're just wet and miserable the whole time. And you find yourself in these situations where you have to tell yourself you break every goal down to its smallest component, right? Just like when you're in the gym and it's like one more step, one more step, one more step. And as long as you keep doing that and you don't quit, eventually you find yourself at the end. Yeah. Did you come from an athletic background where this was kind of like in your vision,

even though you may not have known it? When I first joined the Air Force, I didn't think that special operations was even possible for me, but I did. I grew up playing soccer. So my aerobic background was pretty complete. But when it came to the strength conditioning and the upper body, obviously physicality of everything else that we do, that's what required the most work for me. But running was never a problem. Yeah.

How long – at what point in your career did you transition from being on the teams to now in your position today? Well, this is my second tour in AOTC. So I did – when I got on team, I did two deployments. And then I went to our course out of Keesler, which doesn't exist anymore, to train the guys up while they're going through weather school and then keep them physically fit there. And then I went back on team, and then I came back to AATC. So I have five deployments total and a few years in AATC.

But I do enjoy the training aspect of it. I like digging in people's heads, finding those keys to make them successful, and just being a little part of that success story for them because as you go through training and you grow as a person, just being able to be a part of that for these guys is really special. When you start to look at the characteristics, I know you mentioned grit earlier. When people show up, do you have a pretty good indicator just kind of right off the

bat of who some of the top candidates are going to be and just seen enough people come through that you recognize specific characteristics of people right away? Sometimes, yes. I don't want to be too definitive on this because we're, as cadre we are always pushing for for the people to be successful um but you do pick up those uh characteristics that may not lead them to success um but it's always no one is happier when a dark horse candidate graduates and gets their beret than the cadre yeah um so you know we might we might talk a little smack behind closed doors or whatever or or you know be like i'm not sure if this guy is going to make it. But when that person actually does make it, we're so happy for it. You don't want to be right with somebody not making it.

You're like, I knew it. I knew that guy wasn't good enough. You don't want to do that. The look on our face if someone quits is not happiness. They're like, hey, they're mad at me. I'm not mad you know i'm not your parent but i'm just disappointed like because you have you have what it takes you just have to find it yeah um i'm 18 years old i leave high school right now and i want to go into the u.s air force special operations what do i need to do you need to contact your special operations recruiter i know that part what do i need to do you need to contact your special operations recruiter i

know that part what do i need to do to get in shape all right the first step i know how to make the phone call it's the getting in shape part that i want to train for right now but not have to go i'm too old right now you don't want old people like me i'll give you a shot come on over we'll give you a pass test we'll see what happens i hope you can swim uh yeah what what i mean if someone comes to you and says hey i i'd like to give the shot give this a shot what is what's kind of like a path to send them down and to to be prepared for what's coming over the next it's probably what two--year process to actually get into the teams? Yeah, the pipelines range from about, I think, nine months. Don't quote me on that, to two years-ish to get onto team.

The physical ability and stamina test is your first stop. So that's where you need to be able to do your pull-ups, sit-ups, push-ups, a mile-and-a-half run, two 25-meter underwaters, and a 500-meter freestyle swim, slick. Wait, what's the slick part? No fins. Oh, cool. No fins, no snorkel, no anything. How many pull-ups?

Eight pull-ups, I believe. So far, so good, Doug. I don't have the numbers right in front of me. So far, so good. What's the mile-and-a-half? Mile-and-a-half is 10 far, so good. I don't have a number in front of me. Yeah. So far, so good. What's the mile and a half? Mile and a half is 1020, I believe. We're good. You're good?

I'm passing level one. Let's get it. Yeah. You got everything else. If you have kids, the grit and determination and sleep depth, you're already there. That's a skill you learn later in life, though. I don't know if I'd have that at 18. The underwater training is always a super interesting thing to me.

You mentioned the two 25 yards underwater. Is it 25 meters? I actually do that workout when the summer is here in the pool. But I do it 20 times underwater. It's one of my favorite workouts of all time. It doesn't beat you up you get to train your brain you're like underwater thinking wondering if you're gonna make it to the other end like rep 15 through 20 is not the simplest thing in the world um right how do you guys run into

many people that are like just very uncomfortable underwater now and so, how do you get them more comfortable and very uncomfortable situations? I think for most people, because water is one of those few things I think that initiates that fight or flight just naturally in all of us, you know. So you just need to spend more time in the pool and understand that it's just exercise. I know for me personally, I was not a strong swimmer in the beginning, but then one thing clicked in my head, right? Like I could run. And so as I run, I have a cadence with how I breathe. And then when I realized that as I was swimming, there was a cadence to how I was breathing and a rhythm to it. And then water is a funny thing. It's like putting out hard exercise, you know, you're trying hard, but also 90% of its form, uh its form uh form and and when it comes to the

underwaters is uh relaxing and not burning off your o2 faster you have to just having that confidence that you're going to make it to the other side the uh the drown proofing seems i would imagine for many people is like the hardest aspect because it's the hardest thing to train uh if you're by yourself everybody can get up and go run and do push-ups pull-ups find a gym but it's really challenging to go push yourself um underwater you want to breathe breathing's important a lot of people may have never heard that term drown proofing is that what you guys call it i think that's what they call it the navy seals do you guys call it the same thing do you have a similar process for that yeah so drown proofing is

a specific event um in in the the training so that's when you'll when you see the pictures of the people with their their hands tied behind their backs and their feet tied together and they jump in and you bob from the bottom to the top and then there's a few other other exercises that come along the back end of that um that's what drown proofing is and really that's a that's a pretty high pass event you just need to relax And once you you figure out that rhythm, just like anything else. It's it's pretty calming. If you're in like in a 10 foot pool, and you just blow all your bubbles out and badly because I have done that specific thing. Once you just calm down, it's actually really – it's like super relaxing like you're talking about. But the first time you do it, I've done it while carrying like 40-pound dumbbells as well, which kind of makes it a little bit easier because you kind of float a little bit at the top.

But it's very interesting though though forcing yourself to calm down while you're doing everything well and and this that event in particular has like one of those little mind things that i like to do with people is people see the peak the the candidates with their hands tied and their feet tied together and they're like that looks scary and to me that's just less oh too that i have to burn holding my hands and my legs together as I go to the bottom of the pool. Anybody that's felt that as you're going to the bottom of the pool and your legs want to come apart, your arms are going to move around and create more drag. Once you take that out of the equation, all I have to do is go straight up and straight down. How many reps is it that you guys have to do in that test?

It's a timed event. So it's like, I think a minute of bobbing and then you're going to move around a little bit and go to the bottom, pick up a mask off the bottom of the pool with your teeth and come back up. But we missed out, but yeah, it's a good event. So what, do you see many people not pass kind of these?

I would imagine these are like the entry level underwater tests um most people get through that it's a pretty high pass rate you were saying yeah for for the the drown proofing itself uh when we get into uh some of the other events is you're going to see your high attrition events um once you start throwing uniforms on people in the water and your your body breathing all that kind of stuff so these are the things that that 18 year old needs to start thinking about while they're spending time in the pool they don't necessarily need to do it and probably recommend not trying to swim with a uniform on before you get here yeah but just having that that water comfort so that you get over that first hurdle and everybody

knows once you get over that first hurdle that second hurdle doesn't seem so bad but you need to be well on your way to making progress towards that goal. Yeah. Do you guys do like swim training? Is that, is that part of, or do you just expect people to have the basic skill before they get there? So they, we have developers, a lot of retired beret wearing folks out there that we we've hired to work with the recruiters to train people before they even get here. So we train them before they get here in concert with the recruiting effort. Then they go through basic training

and then we send them through the prep course over at the Special Warfare Training Wing for eight weeks to prep them some more. And then we put them to the crucible event. So we want to make sure that if you are the right candidate and you have the right mindset and you just had a hard time training

or you had a couple of things you need to get over, we're going to give you every chance for success. But at the end of the day, the standard is the standard. And if you don't make it, you don't make it. There may be a lot of people that think about the Air Force and don't specifically think I need to train to be a better swimmer to be a part of the Air Force or special operations. Like what, why is this component so important? Why is it emphasized so much? So one of the things that the air force special operations community does is we embed with a lot of sister service teams. So if you are attached to a green beret team,

a seal team or any of those guys, they are, it's a dive mission or a dive requirement. We send our guys through dive school so that we can integrate with any other team out there. We have some stuff that we do on our own, but all a big part of what we do is, is help those other teams out and provide a capability that they might not have internally. So we're kind of like the Jack of all trades. We can go out there and integrate with whoever we need to integrate with and

get the mission accomplished. Nice. You mentioned it. Was it the crucible event? The assessment and selection. We don't call it the crucible, the crux of the course or the pipeline or whatever. Wait, is that the underwater test we were just talking about? Or is it all together? Or is that totally separate?

You're going to go through prep and then after prep you're going to go through assessment and selection. There is some water in assessment and selection but after assessment and selection is when you go to your pre-dive course where you're going to hit that water stuff really hard and heavy and, and get those tools to be able to relax. And, um, a lot of it is, is not necessarily the comfort in the water that they're lacking at that point.

It's just the going through the motions and getting those specific line items out of the way, those training events out of the way and getting that coordination down, just like you could be strong enough to bench press, you know, 315 pounds. But if you don't have the coordination, you know, if you've never been pressed before, you're still going to have to work your way up and learn that coordination. Is this stuff generally easy to recruit for, you know,

like people kind of idolize special operations guys, you know, there's movies about Navy SEALs and armed Rangers and, and air force guys, et cetera. Like people think it's cool. I would think a lot of guys want to be a part of that even more so than people that just want to be in the military. They want to be like the special people in the military. So do you guys always have a full pipeline or is it hard to get qualified candidates in there on a regular basis? I'm not a recruiter. So I can't really speak to how hard it is to get people in the door. But we do have a high level interest. you know, it does appeal to a lot of people. But just no matter how cool you think it is, or how,

you know, however, Hollywood depicts special operations, where it's always just kicking indoors and doing whatever, you have to do all the hard work. And the reason that people walk around in the community, and may seem a little sure of themselves all the time is because the job is hard. It never stops being hard. So you get through the selection, you get through all the training events, you get to team and the job is still difficult and a lot is expected of you. So it's not all just, you know, Charlie Sheen jumping onto a car to head to a wedding. You know, not what it is. It's hard work just like anything else and the harder you work the cooler stuff you get to do uh have you noticed a uh like the fitness level of the average

person coming in i i know that our our country is not the healthiest uh country in the world but have you noticed like the the standard of uh fitness that is coming in to the Air Force or attempting to become in the special ops? Has it stayed the same, increased? Do you guys have like a selection pool that kind of like weeds itself out by the time people get to you? Yes. So after they go see the recruiter, if they're physically, you know, signed off, or they meet all the requirements to go work out, the people coming in the door today are incredibly physically fit, you know, and after they get through the prep course. So the physicality, I don't think is the problem right now. It's everything else that we expect them to do on top of that.

So I'm not saying that we have like a huge problem in any one area, but you go over the prep course and you look at these candidates about to graduate and they're monsters. I think you talked about it earlier today, the nutrition, the psych, the prep, like all the equipment that we have out there for them to do and the coaches that we've hired to get these candidates to the highest physical level possible in that amount of time, that they're prepared. Yeah. You guys have three, I don't actually know a ton about the three different categories that special operations in the Air Force works. Can you dig into just kind of each track that people can go down? And then kind of the special requirements for each of them? So all of our candidates come in under an open special warfare contract,

Air Force special warfare contract. And you can be a TACP, a pararescue man, a combat controller, or a special reconnaissance. And so at the end of the prep course, because TACP has a little bit of a different track, the people that have been designated as TACPs, they go off to their own pipeline here in San Antonio, and they perform their training. If you're going to be pararescue, combat controller, special reconnaissance, you go to the assessment selection course. And the reason they go on a little bit of a different track, they got to get through dive school and a few other requirements for those career fields. And so those three potential AFSCs go to assessment selection. And then at the end of that,

they receive their career field, so to speak. And the candidates do get a say in it. And the better performer you are, the higher level performer you are, the the candidates do get a say in it and the the better performer you are the higher level performer you are uh the more say you get into where you go what well what's the highest level is that the pjs oh no i would i mean if i have to if you're asking me i'm gonna say special reconnaissance oh i'm definitely asking it wait Wait, so what is like the difference of each of the jobs? So the pararescuemen are our technical rescue specialists. So if we have a pilot that has to punch out anywhere or his bird goes down in a non-permissive environment or someplace that's really hard to reach,

if you need to climb a mountain to go rescue somebody, those are the guys. They're the rescue specialists. And they're, I would say, the best in the DOD. That's my personal opinion that's what i think i like those guys a lot combat control their job is to set up airfields and assault zones overseas and they are also jtech qualified so they can call in the airstrikes um drop bombs on the on the bad guys and uh it's always a good time to see that and

then your special reconnaissance guys we're the guys that go out there. We collect data over multiple domains to give us the edge in the future fights. Yeah. So you're like the first person in. You're walking into very unfriendly places and hopefully not being seen. Right. Yeah. I mean, that's what all the training is about is, is being able to do your job because the, the, the difference between I think special operations and conventional is the margin for error is slimmer. Yeah.

So that's why the, the level of training is where it's at. It's not that, well, you know, we, we like to say stuff like we are, we're regular guys doing irregular things or we're normal people doing,

you know, but it's, it's nothing. I don't think that the, the person is that much different, but the mission set is different in that way that dictates the training that is required to work in those environments. Yeah. How much, I mean,

you guys have like the basic training and then getting through school and, but how much actually goes into the specific mission before you guys ship out to wherever you're going? It was a question we brought up earlier as well. And in that, when it comes to like the physical training and the actual mission training and training for wherever you guys are going, whatever environment it is, I don't even know what the specifics are,

but how do you guys set up a schedule where you're making sure that you're physically in shape to do it but also have enough time to train for the fact that you're going to be knocking on doors in a very unfriendly place and I imagine that's that takes a lot of training on on its own to to be able to be prepared it's it's a busy life um but what what you see in the special warfare training wing here a lot of training on its own to be able to be prepared. It's a busy life. But what you see in the Special Warfare Training Wing here and across the board, when we talk about the physical therapists, all the resources that we have, the equipment across the board,

those exist out there for the teams as well. So if you deploy, you come back and you start up into your, your train up again. So you're going to take care of things you need to take care of personally and then professionally. And then you're going to walk into a train up for the next deployment and you're going to get all the training you need. You're going to make sure that you're physically ready to go physically,

mentally ready to go. And then that's the, that's the cycle that we go through. So you're prepared by the time you step out the door. And the pipeline is just like a longer version of the same thing before you even get seen, I guess. Yeah. Did I answer your question?

Yeah. You just mentioned physical therapy a second ago. If you're banged up and you got your shoulders hurt and your back's hurt and whatever it is, can you just go to physical therapy every day and it's just a part of being in the military that you don't have to pay for? It's just provided?

Right. And especially at our special tactics squadrons or any of the squadrons that our folks are at we have people on staff so i was able to walk into the gym uh you know tell my person this is where i'm hurting and they would torture me for a little bit and i would try not to cry in front of everybody and then i'd feel better and get back to working out uh but you know your ice baths your hot baths everything that you could possibly need. Uh, we're, we're doing a much better job of, of trying to, uh, take care of our people now and, and prolong that, that span of time where you can really do the job effectively. Did you notice a big transition towards, uh, kind of like the, the full 360 degree taking care of people, bringingts and stuff in uh throughout your career was there like a specific moment where that became a um like a big interest

it was the mid-2000s i would say is when i really started to see it obviously i was a much younger and lower ranking person so i'm not privy to everything that was happening high level at the time so i'm not sure how long they were planning it and all that other stuff but yeah in the beginning it was a little more uh go do your job come back take care of yourself train go um and you know because the wars were raging we were in iraq and afghanistan the obstacle was silly high but good on on socom and the air force and everybody else for recognizing that we were we were burning people out uh so they they took big steps to ensure that we weren't going to make that same mistake again for the people that we've invested so much money into.

I mean, that goes across the board for, I think, the entire military right now. Yeah. When you guys are actually deployed, what kind of resources do you guys have over there to stay healthy and make sure you're eating well are there resources to make sure you're staying healthy and eating well i'm trying not to laugh um yeah it's uh i feel like you're living there you have like all these awesome resources in texas it's like this beautiful everyone's an expert and then they're like yeah we're gonna send you this place. None of this exists. When you find out deployments, right? Like it depends on where you deploy, but yeah, it's, you could,

you could end up at a place where wherever you're staging out of might have nice facilities and food and everything else like that. But you know, there's lots of places where that just doesn't exist, but that's where the mission's at. So you need to be at a physical level where you can still perform the mission for however long that deployment is and not break down because those resources might not be available. But you also need to take that responsibility upon yourself,

and that's a big thing in our community, to know how to take care of yourself, even if you don't have all these resources, so that you can still be useful for the team. But you might be in the middle of nowhere with a whole lot of nothing. Do you guys have any physicians that you work with that help monitor your hormone levels? Like I know with sleep deprivation, like maybe you've taken some explosive blasts,

you got TBIs and whatnot, testosterone is low. I feel like if I was running an ABCL team type special operations, you know, PJs, whatever, I'd be like, all right, everyone's on TRT. Everybody's taking it. There's no reason. We're not cheating. Second place is your dad. We all have to take steroids. We, when you're on team stuff is monitored and you're taken care of, but we're not getting anything like that. So, yeah.

I'm not going to talk about that. You're going to get me in trouble there, Doug. A lot of that's said for entertainment value, of course. But I feel like that would be beneficial at some level and like trt is legal you know doing it with like proper supervision and the right amounts we're not like you know it's kind of joking we're on it we're on a strength conditioning podcast like joking about abusing steroids but um really it meant like just getting people back into the normal healthy range seems to be a very good idea and from my perspective you guys have

access to any of that stuff if you truly need it? Well, we have doctors. So whatever you need, as long as it's just like any other physician, if you need it, you're going to get it. And they do a really good job of keeping our guys, our folks going

and staying on team for as long as they want to. So I've never personally experienced any of that to that level, especially with those. But, you know, anytime I've had a problem, you know, it's on me to start getting it fixed. And then they help me out and give me all the resources I need to get fixed so I can go do the job. Yeah. On a similar note, like, do you guys have dietitians or nutritionists that you work with to help optimize your diets? We do. So nutrition is a huge part of what we do. And in fact, if you go to the prep course here,

we have our own dining facility for our prep course. And the food that comes out is dictated by the nutritionist that we have out here or dietician. I can never remember which one is the correct way to say it, but it's pretty amazing. And then we have food available for the students during their downtime as well. So, and then we have, um, food available for the students during the, their downtime as well. Uh, so that if you wake up, yeah, I don't want these guys eating M&Ms or these folks eating M&Ms all the time if they wake up and they're hungry. So there's food

available for them, healthy, uh, snacks that they can munch on and keep their, you know, keep their energy up because they're burning a lot of energy. Yeah. The facilities for you guys, when you are deployed, I'm sure there are some that are still there. We have a called friend of the show. He's a buddy of ours, does a bunch of our programs and stuff, but he's deployed in, I believe in Niger right now. It's like the poorest place in the world. And he sent a picture and

posted up on our facebook group he's got like this baller two like uh beaver fit setup they just got a free shout out on the show but it's like two um semi trucks with a giant tent over the top of it. I was like, man, I probably need to go over there and lift some weights. The facilities, though, as far as training, I feel like it's gotten much easier to get quality equipment and probably quality resources. Has that gone? If that is true, with the equipment,

have they been able to update or upgrade food and some of the other resources that are also very important to keeping you guys going? First of all, I need to get back on team. I know, right? He's hooked up. I feel like they just pressed a button and the tent came up, barbells rolled out. I was like, this thing looks sweet. But the, the entire community,

the whole thing about special operations, we're just high level problem solvers. So if you get to a place and it doesn't have anything, you figure it out. You need to work out. I mean, I don't know how many videos you guys have probably seen of people attaching whatever they have to bars.

Well, that's like how trx was invented right right just making it work so yeah i mean you you take a solution and then you make a solution um if that doesn't work out but i've never been deployed anywhere where guys aren't working out in some form or fashion wherever they're at you know what else you might be you know you might have only cans to to use the for the restroom but you know you're gonna find a way to work out um when you you uh mentioned a little bit earlier some uh about kind of like the the mental health side of things and like uh the mental training that goes in. We've mentioned the word grid a couple of times,

but what resources do you guys have for kind of helping people deal with the difficulty of maybe the missions that they're on or the training that they're going through? I know that they, the guys earlier mentioned that you guys have psychologists on staff, but how has that progressed in just using those people to optimize training? Yeah, we've come a long way. And I'll say last time I was on team, we had a psych doc that was there with us. He was part of the squadron. So anytime you need to go talk to

him about something, and you were supposed to routinely, I think, go talk to him about things. But that's a key component of keeping people ready to go for the fight right um so from where we started when i first came onto the teams to where we are now is it's 180 degrees out uh not that we were trying to to neglect people back in the day but the all the resources we have now you can just go see the psych doc and be like hey man like i'm or whoever doc i'm having problems and uh and it there there used to be i think a lot more stigma attached to that than there is now uh you know and i remember the first time that the psych doc was like you need to come see me i was like great you gotta go talk to the the head shrinker or

whatever shrink but you know like you you talk through some stuff and you might not even realize that you know you're a little wound up inside and you walk out of the office and you're like, I feel, I feel better. You know, I have, I have more bandwidth to like play with. Guys, I just cried. It was awesome. I feel like a new me. I never said I cried just for the record. That wasn't me.

That was someone else. Yeah. I feel like that, that has become a really important piece i mean uh i don't know if you've heard of them but we've been working with the fit ops foundation a little bit uh over the last two years and it's really cool the work that they're doing but i feel like the mental health side of things is really starting to take uh just build roots and it's it's becoming a very important thing for people to recognize without the stigma are guys in the teams talking about it more,

or is it kind of still behind closed doors? I was just going to say like the, the, the mental health bumps you get just being in the team room with the guys these days is, is pretty significant. If you have all these shared experiences or similar experiences, and you can talk about it more openly than maybe was acceptable in the past, that's where it really starts, I think. Because, you know, opening up to someone that's been through something the same as,

the same kind of experiences you have is a whole lot easier than walking in cold with someone who has no frame of reference for what you're talking about and you're just going to unload this stuff on them and they're not going to know how to react but you know talk to one of your teammates it's uh it's a good first step and and it happens a lot now you know guys are all over the place just you know randomly reaching out mental health check mental health check so i think um at least i can speak for you know special warfare community it's a it's definitely something that is positively pursued yeah do you miss uh deployments um not if my wife is asking what a good answer um i mean you're allowed to miss them that's not a problem there is something

special about deployments you go over there you've been training for this for so long and and you get to go do your job and you're so task focused like that's all you have to do there's no you know you don't have to go change the oil in your car or whatever else. There's no stressors. You're not really watching the news. At least I have, you know, just all that like regular life stuff disappears and you have a job to do and you have everything you need to accomplish that job. And you're surrounded by the best people on earth to go get after that mission.

And it's a good feeling. And there's definitely highs and lows associated with it, but it's, it's a, it's a pretty amazing experience. Yeah. That's one thing I'm always blown away when I hear people talk about deployments is and I think they've done a pretty good job, although they are documentaries and I hate acting like that. Isn't a dramatic movie that I'm watching. But you can see it in people's eyes when they talk,

no matter how like Restrepo is like a really awesome documentary and I obviously wasn't there to know how it's it's a movie and it's entertainment as well but it's a very heavy story and no matter how nasty it is all those people want to go back and they want to have that brotherhood. Can you just speak a little bit about kind of the brotherhood that you guys all have? I think that's one of the things that people are most drawn to when it comes to special operations or just the military in general. Well, you find yourself in those situations where all you have is each other, you know? And when you find yourself in those life and death type situations with your team and you make it through, it's hard to explain what that does.

You know, through the training pipeline, the candidates will get a taste of that, right, that team dynamic. But actually going over there and going through, you know, the best of times and the worst of times together, you know, like that you can't share that experience with somebody else. You can write it down on a piece of paper. You can make a movie about it. But unless you're actually there and the smells and the sights and that connection you feel to those people is, I don't, I'm not sure what it is, but it's, if someone from my first deployment walked up to me today and we started talking about it, you know, we're, we are

brothers. We are, we are teammates. That's it. Like you watched my back. I watched yours. And, uh, I don't, I don't know what it is. It's, it's the, the, the 100% trust in each other and the worst of environments, I think. Do you guys, I mean, you, you mentioned that it kind of happens

in the training, but is it really mandatory to go through that experience and to really understand, or do they do a decent job of kind of testing you guys as a unit in training to force that bond before you even get there? Yes. Yeah. We're going to make sure that they know how to operate as a team. You know, being a good teammate is, is one of the most important things. And so to, to make you know, to make a good Damascus blade, you got to melt all that stuff together. You know what I mean? So that's what we're going to do. We're going to put them through the fire and at the end of it,

they're going to be a fine tuned weapon. So that's what we do. And if they, if they are not melting together with the rest of the team, it's, it's just not going to work. And so we have our methods to make sure that they're all getting along and moving towards the same objective. Hold on. Now I want to know one method that you use to ensure that teamwork is there. If there's methods, I want to know like the real one,

the one where everyone's like, okay, we like each other now. Well, I mean, the real one the one where everyone's like okay we like each other now well i mean the easiest one is repetition um if you give them uh an assignment uh say everybody you know jack your feet up on the wall for a minute and then we can be done as a team you have to do one full minute and we call it cone science because well anyway we're not going to talk about that too much but it's amazing that they can they cannot perform as a team five or six times. And physiologically you would think that they'd be getting weaker. But what happens is, is that you hit that seventh, eighth time after they should be smoked and they're all going to like, as a team, they're going to jack their feet up

and they're going to stay there for a minute and then it's going to be over. And that's what brings the team together. Cause they're not doing it for themselves anymore. They're doing it for the team. And that's when that, that team above self, I think mentality really happens. Is that mainly, uh, forced through kind of like the physical training or do you guys have stuff that you guys do with the psychologist to, uh, work on that aspect as well? I think the physical and the mental is is very connected as i'm sure you guys are well aware um but we don't we don't at least to my

knowledge we're not asking the psych docs to like give us tools to tickle people's brains and make them react a certain way or anything that would be awesome this this is the standard you all need to meet it to move on in the training so that we know that you're good to go and you're not going to be a danger to yourself or others on the mission. So if you're not strong mentally, you're not going to make it physically. That's just how it works. You mentioned earlier that some of the paths may be nine months guess, make it into the teams, and some of them are two years.

Which of the three is, like, on the shorter side, and which ones are longer? So the TACP pipeline traditionally has been shorter, and TACPs are – all they do is call in airstrikes, and they do that for the conventional Army, and then they also have the special operations element to their career field as well. So they're, like, the JTAC specialists, calling in bombs. Their pipeline has been undergoing some change, so it might be about a year long now to get their JTAC rating

before they get out, or it might be a little bit longer than that. What is JTAC? I'm sorry, Joint Terminal Attack Controller. That means they call in the airstrikes on the bad guys and as I like to say, they save all of our lives in that moment. Gotcha. We've mentioned the pipeline multiple times. We've

talked about aspects of it. Have we gotten a comprehensive view of what the whole pipeline looks like from beginning to end? Right. I can speak on especially special reconnaissance. you're going to go through uh bmt prep your assessment selection your pre-dive your dive school your airborne school your survival school your military free fall school uh otherwise known as like kind of skydiving

but it's in the military so it's going to be a little more crazy and then after you're done with all of your employment schools is when you're going to go out to Pope Army Airfield for a few months and actually learn how to take all the things that you've learned so far and incorporate them into what your job actually is. And that's when we're going to teach them the land nav, their shoot move communicate, and then start working into their specialty skills.

And then combat control is a lot the same way. It's just they learn a different skill set from special reconnaissance. And pararescue, after they leave their employment phase, all their jumping and survival and all that other stuff, they're going to go through their medical courses and then go through their shooting and communicating and all that other type of stuff, their tactical rescue skills. Do you find that different personality types kind of gravitate toward different roles or

occupations? If you're super smart, you kind of head towards, we'll say medical for the moment. If you're very chaotic, then are you like the pararescue guy? If you're very calm, do you go do something else? Have you noticed any patterns like that? I'm not. It would be really hard to pick out those patterns, but by the end of the pipeline, everybody's pretty happy with who they are or by the end

of their career, you know, like there, there's not too many guys out there that are like, man, I wish I would have been X versus Y. Um, but I think we're all pretty similar. Uh, you need to be calm under pressure. You need to, you you know have that no quit attitude that great determination and whether i put you know a medical school in front of you or a reconnaissance school in front of you or anything else these people are going to crush it they're going to they're going to do it and they're going to be really good at it and they're going to go out there and solve those problems for for the air force yeah a lot of people they watch movies and they see special operations guys doing fun cool charlie sheen stuff like you were talking about earlier um they probably don't think so much about like the classroom work like like studying medical textbooks and learning how

to repair wounds and injuries etc but there's there's a large component of that correct right and especially as we're moving into uh you know, the technology age or whatever we're calling this, that our world is moving into at an accelerated rate. You need to understand how all these things fit together, you know, whether it's the human body or whether it's, you know, ways to get after reconnaissance or whether it's ways to control things in the air. Everything is technology driven and you need to be smart. And we found that motivation, the motivated individuals that we get are able to learn just about whatever we need them to learn. But at the base level from that, you do need to have that physically capable individual with everything else. You know what I mean? But that definitely has to be a component on the top end is that classroom capable person, i guess is the way we would say it yeah just like anything else if you want it bad enough you're gonna do it you might if you're out there

and you're thinking i'm not that smart if you want to if you want to be one of these career fields i promise you if you have enough motivation get in there and you'll be surprised how capable you are across the spectrum of uh of what we. I'd imagine it's like most things. Like there's guys that have a lot of talent but don't work hard, and there's guys that kind of have mediocre talent but work really hard and do better than the talented guys. Yep, 100%. It's all about motivation and wanting it.

A lot of fun, man. Oh, Doug, you got more. The guy's got to go back to work. Oh, go ahead. Oh, you cut us off? You got a time constraint here? No. When do you need to leave?

No, I was just – go ahead. I was asking what kind of – what are some common occupations or roles to move into after you're out of the teams? Like you have leadership capabilities, you have medical training, et cetera, et cetera. Where do people tend to gravitate to i i get this question a lot uh from from people out there in the internet world and i always say the same thing once you you you come off team and you move into the civilian sector you can do whatever you want and guys and teammates and people that come from this

community that's what they do they do whatever whatever they want. Entrepreneurs, a lot of them, agency work, you know, forest rangers and firefighters, like the whole gamut of people. It's not like, hey, I have the skill set and I have to do exactly this thing when I get out. It's no, you have this capability to solve problems and to do whatever you want to do. And so that's what people do. So I don't think anything is limited. Once you, once you've been through what we put our people through. This is awesome, man. I appreciate it.

I feel like I know everything. I'm going to pass level one and two for sure. Next time. We'll give you a pass test and maybe we're only through a few days. one and two for sure. Next time when we actually come to San Antonio to do it, man. We'll give you a pass test and maybe run you through a few days of training. I can't actually invite you, so ignore that. I think it would be awesome. We didn't get you in trouble on anything except you invited us out.

I guess we did all right. We got you to the end. Yeah, I mean, that wasn't for this COVID thing. That was what we were originally supposed to be coming out, throwing on masks, jumping out of airplanes. Now we're on Zoom. Right. Yeah, you got to get out here and do all the Air Force Special Warfare thing. You know, and it's just no lack of love for all of our sister service folks out there,

but some of the stuff we do is incredible. And just seeing the candidates as they're coming through the process and everything, it's motivating to me. I love seeing that. I love being around the training. And then, you know, jumping in every once in a while and test yourself to see if you've still got it. It's a good time.

This is our second time interviewing a bunch of you guys, and we ran the spartan world championships uh do you remember what his name was doug i apologize it was like minus a hundred thousand degrees it was the coldest most miserable like climbing up to the top of a mountain in like early or late september or something like that in tahoe and dude was up there in like the short short silkies diving into water at the top of the mountain and all of us looked at each other like get after it bro you can do all this for go through it three times do it for me that's fine i'll be on the sidelines because i'm not getting wet with 40 mile an hour

winds ripping across the top of this mountain and he was just he thought he was at the beach down in Do it for me. That's fine. I'll be on the sidelines because I'm not getting wet with 40-mile-an-hour winds ripping across the top of this mountain. And he thought he was at the beach down in the Bahamas or something just hanging out. He was just fine. I was like, that's why they have you and I talk on the microphone. I'm just going to lift the weights. You're just going to convince yourself that you want to do it, that you want to jump in that water.

That's the key to everything. You have to find a way to create. Tell yourself that that's a valuable skill. And that day, I wasn't there. you want to jump in that water. That's the key to everything. You have to find a way to create, tell yourself that that's a valuable skill. And that day, I wasn't there. I wasn't there for that one. Where can people find you or find their local recruiter to come and hang out? Right. I'm pretty sure if you go to airforce.com or look up special warfare recruiting,

you're going to find our people. And they have all the connections to get you in touch with anybody that you need to get in touch with. We're on Instagram and everything else. As far as I know, I'm getting a little older, so I'm not a hundred percent familiar with everything that's out there. Yeah. But we're not hard to find. Are you on TikTok? You're on TikTok, aren't you? I know it. No, I don't want to're on TikTok, aren't you? I know it. No. No, I don't want to be on TikTok.

That's funny. What happens to TikTok? I'm sure they're not offended. They're a billion users. Sometimes I see the military people on TikTok. Not this guy. Doug Larson you bet find me on Instagram

I really enjoyed this I appreciate you coming on the show next time out in person in Texas for sure that sounds awesome do some training

get some good footage that'd be dope absolutely I appreciate it I think it's awesome it was nice thanks for having me on I'm Anders Varner

at Anders Varner we are Barbell Shrug the Barbell underscore Shrug get over to barbellshrug.com forward slash diesel dad. That is where all the dads get strong, lean, and athletic. And Walmart, if you are in Palm Springs, San Diego, LA, or Vegas, get over to Walmart.

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