Barbell Shrugged - Strength Training Like an NFL Athlete and The One Thing That Separates Good From Great w/ Joe Kenn, Anders Varner, Doug Larson, and Travis Mash - Barbell Shrugged #459

Episode Date: April 15, 2020

In today’s episode the crew discusses:   Coaching and programming for Strongman athletes  Coaching at all levels from high school to the NFL What is a tiered system that can help all athletes get stronger What does an NFL Training Session look like What are the habits of the best athletes in the pros  How do you recover faster and more efficiently How to use CrossFit training to build pure strength. And more…   Anders Varner on Instagram Doug Larson on Instagram Travis Mash on Instagram Joe Kenn on Instagram   Training Programs to Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/34zcGVw   Nutrition Programs to Lose Fat and Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/3eiW8FF   Nutrition and Training Bundles to Save 67%: https://bit.ly/2yaxQxa   Please Support Our Sponsors   Paleo Valley  - Save 15% at http://paleovalley.com/shrugged   Organifi - Save 20% using code: “Shrugged” at organifi.com/shrugged   Driven Nutrition - Purchase our favorite Protein, PreWOD, PostWOD, and Amino Acids here and use code “Shrugged” to save 20% on your order.    PRx Performance: Garage Gym Equipment and Accessories: Save 5% using the coupon code “Shrugged” http://magbreakthrough.com/shrugged to get a 10% discount with coupon code SHRUGGED10.

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You love them. We love them. I love them. They're keeping all the vitamins and minerals in my life. Right now, as we are in this really difficult time, stuck in the house now for about four weeks, which is pretty crazy, and my nutrition, although it's pretty good, I'm still not getting the vitamins and minerals I need. I'm not getting all the vegetables that I should be eating just because I'm like in the house. You're always here, so you're not really getting as excited about food. That's why I pop a green shake in the morning. I pop a red shake in the afternoon right before I get ready

to work out. The gold at night, the green, the red, and the gold juices, all the micronutrients, vitamins, and minerals that you need to stay healthy, keep your digestion and immune system rolling, primed, optimized. Get over to Organifi.com forward slash shrugged. That's going to save you 20%. Organifi.com forward slash shrugged. Shrugged. You're going to save 20% on your order. Let's get into the show. Welcome to Barbell Shrugged. I'm Anders Varner. Doug Larson, Coach Travis Mash, and Coach Joe Kinn in the house. We're talking Strongman. We've been talking for like 10 minutes already, so we're just going to keep rolling. Yeah, Strongman. A little bit of the history. You're in it.

Yeah, so getting back to what we were talking about with Brian, Brian was smart enough to realize he had to change his body type and the types of ways he was training to try to compete at both ends of the spectrum. Well, if you noticed in the last few years, World's Strongest Man has started to go back more towards its roots and become more athletic. Well, it doesn't pay to be 440 pounds anymore when you're asked to do those things. And if you did see, I mean, I think that was a big reason why Half-Thor tore his plantar fascia last year

and it cost him, you know, and Brian, I think he realized with his show that things are changing. And because of his poor showing at the Arnold, there's only one way you can say it. He had to qualify this year for the Arnold, and he went out to Santa Monica, came in second. So he didn't even compete in the Arnold this year for the Arnold and he went out to Santa Monica came in second so he didn't even compete in the Arnold this year and there was that big there was a big event that's usually overseas now that a huge one that their big prize money that usually happens between the Arnold

and the world's strongest man that for I think he had another that's had something he couldn't do. So he wasn't going to go to either of those. And he was going all in to train for World's Strongest Man this year. And he reached out to me. And I'm not – not anything with his strength or training, but for getting back to being more athletic. So we put together a basic mobility activation, and I went through and filmed a bunch of basic, really what I considered agility type work that would be specific to some of

the events that I know he might have to do in training. And we implemented some plyometric stuff, some low level types of things not because he couldn't do high level stuff the guy's 400 pounds there's just certain yeah how do you teach somebody yeah teaching somebody that's 400 pounds to be athletic that's that's insane like you just you're going completely backwards usually the problem is how do i get you stronger and this one is like hold on we gotta get you to move but again he had that background the guy played basketball yeah so it's not like you were taken for the lack of a bit terms a guy with no athletic skills

yeah trying to get him athletic he had it and and now he's got to maintain – he's got to retain some of those old traits, but being at a – you know, like he's going down to 400 for World's Strongest Man. That kind of seems funny. Going down. I'm on a cutting cycle. He's got to go down about four bills. But, like, the other day he's been filming some stuff, and he did – one of the cool single-bout jumps we used to do

with our football players when we started doing it at Louisville was like long jump to boxes to help subsidize the load. And it's a hard drill because it teaches you launch points and landings. But, you know, Brian the other day, I think it was to a 12-inch box, he did a five-foot long jump at 400 pounds and landed on a 12-inch box. Five feet doesn't seem impressive. Go outside, put a 12-inch box, and measure five feet away. It's a little bit further than you think.

It's a good lead. Yes. Yeah, and we had guys at Louisville. I don't want to lie because I'm big on my facts, but we had a couple of guys that were able to go about eight feet onto a 24-inch box, but they were 11-foot long jumpers. I mean, they could long jump 11 foot standing long jump 11 foot so that kind of correlated but if you look at it if you look at eight feet

box beast i know i'm scared like i'd be scared and they're not getting there and there and there was guys that you could tell man they'd line up and it's like and they crash into the box but i give them credit for the effort but so brian brian's was i think he would have again i'm pulling for the guy because if he wins five that's the that ties the best of all time yeah we're talking about this the other day with with strongman and a lot of the physique sports like you look at bodybuilding with like ronnie coleman and and whoever else has won like six seven eight years in a row strongman's like that you're talking about with brian winning it multiple times already like what is it about strength and physique sports where you get these reigning

champions for for half a decade and there's only been like so many champions in the last 30 years because you know people like even in crossfit with with Matt Frazier and Rich Froning and Tia, like they just win every year. Like why is that the case in these types of sports? I think some of it is, one, it's the training. Like they figured something out. And if you remember, even though Zavikas didn't push himself to 400 pounds until Brian came on the scene.

His belly got so freaking big. Like, I remember the first time I saw him, he was like a giant, clearly. They're all giants to begin with. But then, I guess it was the Arnold two years ago. There was a documentary about it, and I was just like, my God, like his core just grew an additional foot out. And he was just resting like 500 pounds on a log on there or whatever it is. Yeah, and I think for that – for them, I think it all comes in like different eras. Like it's the guy who is

it's like passing the torch this guy makes his five-year run uh this dude learns this dude learns his trade from this guy and then as that guy starts to fall off he takes the jump i mean just like with it's like with zavikis to brian to the mountain. And now you got these guys like Lee Cease and I can't pronounce the one guy's name. The guy who's very, very good at the – came in second to Shaw. Oh, man, I don't want to say it. He's very good at the static lifts, the overhead work, the natural stones. He could be the next guy if he gets his deadlift up. Yeah.

But I think bodybuilding now, because I've always been into bodybuilding, even though my physique has nothing to do with that because a bunch of buddies of mine were in it in the early 80s. Bodybuilding to me is a lot different. I think a lot of it is once that guy gets on a run, it's almost to me like the judges don't want to see him go down unless something drastically changes. That's the one thing where somebody else is judging you.

You're not scoring points for winning an event and you know it's like i just read ronnie coleman's book yeah buddy it's a really good book i like ronnie coleman because yeah and everybody for he had that and if you if you read that story he's not like a lot of these other bodybuilders who were successful out the gate this is a guy who came in 12th place at the olympia yeah 15th place at the olympia didn't even think he could win and then all of a sudden he goes on to become possibly the greatest bodybuilder of all time and i think a lot of it goes back to what's the look like. Yeah. I mean, like you look at how this has changed and now they,

it's, it became a point where it's funny because they took women's bodybuilding, the open off because they were looking too much like men and they never wanted that to happen. But yet they've allowed the science behind supplements to change what the guys are looking now. And there is no aesthetics. There is no symmetry to what bodybuilding was supposed to be of power and grace of the years of Arnold and even like Lee Haney. And Rich Gasparri was one of the first bodybuilders who really started dialing like striated glutes, you know, jacking up the deal. But even his symmetry was still there.

And then it became like the girth monsters. Who can get the biggest? Dorian Yates started that. Yeah. Who cared how thick your waist was. Like if you ask anybody on the street today, and nothing against them, show a picture of Roley Winkler or Arnold Schwarzenegger or Frank Zane. Every guy in America is picking Schwarzenegger and Frank Zane over Roley Winkler.

Schwarzenegger just put out on his instagram when we all went into captivity he put out like his 10 pictures on instagram from his body weight book that he put out and he was such a savage he is like every aspect of his body is so perfectly proportioned and when you sit there and listen to him talk about like when the calf is bigger than the neck. Oh, no. And all – like he knew the exact measurements of where everything needed to be to have the perfect shape. Yeah, he would always say if I add a quarter of an inch to my arms, I have to add a quarter inch to my neck, my calves, my thighs. I mean, that was – but even then, like, and that's one thing, like I liked when I watched Kai Greene because he took what part of the symmetry and the choreography of Grace.

Like Arnold and those guys went to ballet classes. Yeah. With people to pose. I mean, the fluid of the way they pose at that big it was one of the cool things that they talked about was how he tried to follow the golden ratio that you know the fibonacci sequence and so which is like the sequence that nature follows throughout the world so he wanted his butt his body to follow the same sequence and ratio as nature. So I thought that was super awesome. Okay.

Ask anybody in this day and age, it's just like, how much bigger can I get? And now I'll tell you what, whatever they do at that oxygen gym, those guys are ridiculously freaky. Like it's. What is it? Oxygen. That, that, if that called that O2 gym overseas that everybody – is it in Dubai or somewhere? Oh, wait. Those guys had to have a hard time competing internationally.

Well, they can't get over. Yeah. Like, but that's where those, you know, who's – I mean, that's where Roley Winkler, Big Ramy, and all these dudes – like, let's just look at, like, Roley Winkler, Big Rami, and all these dudes – like let's just look at like Roley Winkler. You watch Generation Iron One when his coach was grandma to what he is now training there. Don't tell me coaching diet and being in the right place

doesn't make a difference. Hold on. I want to know what grandma is because I assume – You haven't watched Generation Iron One? I've watched Generation Iron One like 20 times, but I don't know i've watched generation iron one like 20 times but i don't know grandma coach so i know exactly who she is but i don't know is she i i kind of assumed that she was considered like a great coach because she was in the movie like why i don't know if she was great or not but i do know this it wasn't working for my boy, Raleigh Winkler.

He did really well this year. He's done good the last couple of years. Like I think the year he won the people's champ, I thought he beat, I thought he beat Sean Roden and Phil Heath. I thought he looked the best. And then this year, the guy that came over, that he finally got his visa, year, the guy that came over, that he finally got his visa,

the 212 guy that came over and came to compete, I thought he should have won. He became the people's champ, but that guy looked – that guy was impressive. Yeah. I want to get into a little bit more of the tactical stuff there. You're talking about taking these giant monster 400-pound humans and turning them back into the athletes what is a little bit of that process and the assessment um kind of sizing up what the demands of strongman are in the current era and taking 400 pound human and saying like okay we're going to do some footwork. I imagine if you like laid out a ladder, they'd be like, no, I'm not getting on the ladder.

I won't do a ladder anyway. Tripping over 400 feet going back and forth. Wait, let him talk. I love what he's saying right there. I'm not a big – like that's one thing that Brian brought up was ladders. I said, we're not doing ladders. Like we're not doing it. Oh, I love that.

No one really – that's just like a dancing game, right? Yeah. I mean, it's foot patterns. It's like anything else. It's like my two grandkids, they're messing around trying to figure out how to jump rope. And, you know, jumping rope is the simplest form of plyometrics outside of walking. I mean, and I was showing them because my granddaughter was telling me about in school, they'll have like their friends hold the rope for them.

I said, oh, no, no, no. I'm going to show you what they did in my schoolyard back in the day. So I went on the YouTube and put on some double dutch. Oh, I love that. And that's what I said. I said, now, late in the season, I called her my little Lala. I said, Lala, you've got to understand, when I was in school, there'd be four or five girls at a time doing this. And you want to talk about some – and then some of the guys would get in. That's some of the most impressive athletic stuff I've ever saw on a playground.

Yeah. Watching people do double dutch jump rope. You can see some girls just getting to work on YouTube. They are killing it. Matt, that goes back to what we were talking about last week. Crossfitters, they do double hunters. You want to go where they do jump rope to get out? They play double dutch. Yeah. Double is break it's break dancing you're right it's break dancing with ropes i mean yeah what some of those and remember these are untrained people these are just people

in the schoolyard that just started dancing while they had two people spinning ropes yeah and then how they flow in and out and they rotate in and out. I mean, it was some of the best. Who knows? And that was stuff, you know, and again, we could talk about a bunch of stuff, but that was stuff like back in the day where that happened like after school. Like that wasn't like – that was people like, hey, man, we're going up to the school to play pickup.

And part of pickup was you played handball you played dodgeball you played kickball you played basketball and then that people be doing double dutch and by the end of the time no one's doing anything else because everybody's watching the double dutch it is what it is but with brian because i knew his background and I knew enough about the sport, I actually did a strongman competition. I can see that. I can see. Your neck allows for that competition in your life.

Yeah, something like that. I told my buddies I'm the first non-strong person to win a strongman. Master's level. That's one good thing about masters. They change the game to win a strong game. Master's level. That's one good thing about masters. They change the game for you a little bit. Right. But, and again, I knew enough about the type of events that he would have to go through.

And as strong and powerful as he is, because he's a very good weight over bar guy also, like Half Door. He just, again, you're going to train the things that you think are necessary to be successful and and a lot of things you forget you don't need it's just like anybody else like he what part of it was you prep one way to go to a weight room for so many years you forget that it's more than lifting weights. Like there's certain things that you have to add in.

So we added in – what I try to do is I try to break everything into packages. So we broke it down into like a big five upper body mobility form, a big five lower body mobility form, a big five lower body mobility, just basic drills. And the good thing with me, and that's why I like working with big guys are, because I go through all this stuff myself. So I know if the package is good for me, it's going to be better for a more athletic guy because they're simple and effective.

And because I'm not asking them to invest hours upon hours, they're little five-minute mini blocks. Yeah. The guys will fit that in because I'm a big believer in when you're developing people's training plans, there's only so much. You can only get to full in a gas tank. And it happened a lot of times with some of my better nfl guys where every year they come in and go house i want to add this i want to add this i want to add this

and i'm like great what are you taking away and they're like well what do you mean what am i taking say you can't do all of this on top of what you've already done yeah you got it's not something bad's gonna happen whether you get some type of overuse injury that you shouldn't or you just fatigue out and you're gonna wear yourself out so there's there's a little bit of risk reward that's why we always design the programs on the thought of these guys are pretty motivated they always want to do extra so let's write the program where we're going to get what i need them to be done but if they want to do extra i'm still in i'm still in a window of lack of bad things happening so with with brian we we really pieced up with just a little bit

every day like on uh on his upper body days he does some types of upper body med ball work for power, for lack of a better term. I can't remember. I think on a squat day, he'll do a vertical component jump, so more of a pure box jump. On his deadlift day, it's more of a horizontal jump. And then on his event days is when I have him do like his little quick foot and agility stuff. Yeah. And it's just things to get him moving, learning how to pivot.

We do more of a longer dynamic warm-up on that day. We do band activation work for his strength stuff. But I didn't want to overload him because, again, in the end, what he really needs to be doing is he's advanced and still staying fairly strong. So it's only, you know, three sets of five jumps. And then we progress the jumps. Like he does a seated box jump,

and then it progresses into a seated box jump with an eccentric load. So he lowers kettlebells to the ground. When he gets to the box, he drops the kettlebells, and then he jumps onto a box. Same thing with the long jump stuff. The med ball stuff is kind of like medley work. One of the things we're doing is he does like a med ball chest pass to the ground into a med ball

overhead slam to a catch and then a rotation throw yeah how much of the adaptation is just easier because he's already so strong i mean you're kind of just lightening the load significantly more but all the patterns stay the same for the most part. Yeah. I think a lot of, again, a lot of it is who he is. Like if I was like, if someone else came to me, I'd have to know more about their training plan. Like I know his training plan. I knew what he wanted and I knew the doses. Like one thing you learn with the guys out of the higher levels,

people think they need more. They actually need less. I'm learning that right now, and I'm not even high level. And I learned that with specifically when I got to train Julius Peppers the last two years. I mean, here's a guy who's going to the Hall of Fame. He's the fourth in sacks. He's the fourth all-time leader in sacks in NFL history. Was a tremendous basketball player in college also.

Could have probably played in the NBA with his size as a power forward. But Julius, he's a very unique individual athletically, and I termed it with him of, you know, small doses of excellence. Like, it doesn't take a lot for that guy to respond. And these guys have so much other things to worry about. It's like, hey, man, give me 35 minutes. Let's get what we got to get done, and let's move on. And you learn that with the guys especially in brian's case the older the athlete

is in their particular sport the more efficient they are in and everything and that and that really really helps because now they know what it takes to excel on comp day and the difference between being a football player and a strength athlete is the weight room for a football player, it's not practice. The weight room for Brian Shaw is practice. There's a totally different intent. I walk into this weight room today or yesterday to train. I'm a strength athlete, whatever that means. When I squat, squatting is an event for me. today or yesterday to train i'm a strength athlete whatever that means so when i squat

squatting is an event for me when they squat they're like man i don't want to squat today yeah what else can i do for legs where i can't pass on squats if i'm not hurt where they can be like man coach what do we got today and then you can put them on an alternative exercise yeah certain things that different different sports allow you to do like you know you talked about crossfit and and again i'm not i'm not here to to talk about the pros and cons of everything i i know my beliefs in training just like those coaches know their belief there's certain things that i think they pushed they pushed a level on on the ways i was learned how to program to a point where it's like wow but then you watch these professional strong man excuse me these cross

fitters you're like well they're doing things that we were told you shouldn't be able to do. But again, they're the elite of the elite. My issue is when the Joe Schmo, you're asking Joe Schmo to do what an elite level athlete can do, and it's not their job. I mean, you hear those CrossFitters, that's a professional work day for them. I mean, being a CrossFitter, the different types of disciplines that they have to train is very similar to an MMA fighter. There's multiple discipline approach. There's only 24 hours in a day. And then you've got these coaches.

Because I've come back to this with crossfit power lifting weight lifting strength and conditioning coaching call it what it is program it's it's shitty coaching that that's the difference i mean i think to me personally if you walk in my gym and it says joe kent's gym and i'm training people like that that dude can coach or it says joe kent's crossfit you walk in my gym and it says Joe Ken's gym and I'm training people, like that dude can coach, or it says Joe Ken's CrossFit, and you walk in and go, that guy can coach, or it can be the exact opposite. You walk into Joe Ken's CrossFit and go, that guy can't coach. Yeah, yeah. And I think that the labeling has changed.

My thought process now is if you can coach and you're programming it and there's some progressions, I just think that early on, you know you're looking for trouble when you're promoting Rabdo and you're giving out Krusty the Clown t-shirts as part of your promotions of your deal. That right there tells you a little bit about their thought process early on was but again the metabolic demand of what they were asking didn't really relate to what science and training had talked about and a lot of that stuff but what happened it's just like everything

else it's survival of the fittest it's just like all these high level college teams. Why are they successful? They out recruit everybody else. They wear them out in their off season programs. And whoever's left standing, they're going to win 11 games. I would say that CrossFit kind of changed like overseas, like Travis could probably talk about, about the Olympic weightlifting. I'm gonna bring 500 kids in in China to learn how to lift weights, and if you can't handle the load, you're out. And that's what I think has happened with these high-level CrossFit. I would say that CrossFit has also brought the whole term

concurrent training to light. And there's a lot more science behind it. People like Alex Fieta or what is uh james fitzgerald is that you know opet opet yeah he probably hates getting called opt still but yeah yeah so but you get guys like that who now say okay this is what they're asking here's the different energy systems how do they work together so i think more and more each year there's more science being used in CrossFit. And I like where they're going with the whole – that functional training league where it's more –

they're trying to get – that's the part they're trying to get to the Olympics. I think it's well – it's way more thought out, much more easy to program and periodize. So it's getting there. And, like, you get a crazy thing like CrossFit comes in and says we're going to do all this crazy stuff. And then you get a few people who can do it, like you said, you know, the guys who can, you know, somehow their body is able to do things they shouldn't.

But then they start learning the science. Yeah. I think, Joe, if you had a guy who had potential to be great in the sport of CrossFit, like what would be your general approach to training that person? Me personally? Yeah. Well, I can tell you this. I've said this time and time again, and I think Travis would agree.

My system of training fits every athlete. And you talk about the concurrent sequencing and the multidimensional sport of CrossFit. My program fits that ideally because it's a total body session that rotates upper body, lower body, and total body in a world. So then you just, and again, because of that rotation, you can fit in any exercise that fits the training plan, whether it is a WOD at the end for your conditioning so for for me i he said what i'm so excited yeah i call them medleys i can't believe the internet even allowed that to happen yeah that's all right i mean

i'm back in the private sector now. I have to relate to all individuals. You never know who's going to walk through my door at the end of the pandemic and say, hey, I want you to train me. I'm ready to train for the next apocalypse. I'm ready to train for the CrossFit Games. And I'm like, I look like a CrossFitter. My pull-up game is zero. My push-up game is negligible. Pistol squats, yeah, with 500 pounds of band tension

yo i actually think that um and then again the programming so the programming to me would be like for me i'm very like i'm impressed with them when they do their heavy clean ladders and snatch ladders because one when you look at the actual body weight of most of these cross-threads, male or female, they all fit into a certain range. Yeah. And then they're doing loads that are really, like Travis was saying, could put you in, you know, top ten places at some international meets when they're doing them.

I'm not saying they can win it. I mean, obviously, Tia, two meetings. She went to the Olympics. Yeah. They could post a total that would be very respected in the sport of weightlifting. And the fact that they're doing a cluster set of 10 in the 75 second window, but we were doing, but what I've done those types of training with my football players as part

of their conditioning in the summer to get prepared to do a 15 play drive. So a lot of the things that they're doing fit exactly what I, what I believe in my, my. My thought was always the high-volume plyometrics coupled with other things within the same time period. That's just a lot of shock and a lot of poundage and forced load that the body, again, in their case, adapted. Somebody like myself, I'm on the shelf for three weeks trying to do some of that stuff but and that's where i think like travis talked about the science of it and

things improving again i think it's the coaches and i think they realize that not everybody's prepared for some of these workouts there was no regressions everybody was thrown whether it's whether it's annie thorstotter or joe ken when crossfit first showed up we were doing the same work right yeah i actually think a lot about the what you training strong men to be more agile and fit almost as a lot of how those like elite people train for the crossfit games and that their goal is to get as strong as they possibly can when they don't have to be in conditioned shape to go do these like workouts and then as soon as the time comes where they need an engine they just sit on rowers for different intervals and learn how to breathe. So there's tons of skill work involved.

But what the majority of the training is to get to the CrossFit Games is they just become these monsters that can consume oxygen. And, I mean, we were in Boston watching Kelsey Keel and Tolan Tola. The guy's a monster match. You got to go watch this guy lift weights. He's incredible. So athletic. And they're doing 20-minute time trials on an airdyne.

Like three, four rounds of it just sitting there. And all I could do, I'm watching these monsters, and they're just breathing heavily. Like might as well have been training for the tour de france like that doesn't look like crossfit there's no muscle but they're just training their bodies to be able to consume so much oxygen because once you're strong you're strong enough and then it just becomes a breathing game to stay aerobic for an entire weekend and the way that like you watch some of them like like i do a lot of versaclimber

sprints whatever that means but i do it that's brutal i do it for speed or time and then but those guys do all their stuff for calories how fast can i burn a certain amount of calories like when when the airdyne like hey you got to do an airdyne sprint to burn 20 calories before you go to the rope. And I'm like looking at my calorie climb and I'm like, there's no effing way I'm staying on this Bursa climber going as hard as I can to burn 20 calories. I'll take my 15 seconds and get off of 45 and just get as many feet as I can. But it is challenging. It makes you think, again, it goes back to, you know, the body will adapt to, will continue to adapt to the stresses you put on it. And the high level athlete obviously can afford

to exert more stress. There's a reason why they, there's a reason why all CrossFitters have the same physiques. I would love to see their quality of sleep. I would love to see, like, you know, if Rich Froning or Matt Fraser, you know, wears that whoop thing. And, like, I would love to see what their sleep looks like. It has to be phenomenal.

You know, look at Corey Gregory. You know that guy? Like, he only sleeps four or five hours a night, but his quality of sleep is so much higher than everyone else's. I'm like, I'm very curious. Like, is that just a natural genetic trait that allows them to recover much more than most people, or is it something I'm doing? You know what I mean?

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To get a 10% discount. With the coupon code SHRUGGED10. Back to the show. Brooke Wells is sponsored by Whoop. And she sleeps like 10 hours a night. I mean, her recovery is insane. They actually have made videos about her specifically in that she sleeps better than everybody that's at the games.

And she's 22 years old or something like that. Works out well. Is it a genetic trait, or is it something that she does? Is it a pattern she forms? Yeah, I think it's a lifestyle thing, right? a genetic trait or is it you know is it something that she does is a pattern she forms i think yeah i think it's a lifestyle thing like right i mean what joe this is actually like a great question when you look at an nfl player they don't live the normal life so if you're a hustler and you're broke as you can get and you got to go coach classes a day yeah it's totally like the better

you get at your sport the fewer variables you have to deal with, and the more you can pay somebody to do the shit you don't want to do. The older athletes are so much more, and again, they understand, hey, this is what I need to do to be exceptional in a game of exceptional people. What is going to allow me to be that person uh you know it's like every you hear it all the time uh rookies you know they're young they don't care about what they're eating they don't care that they're playing yeah night all night and going to practice on three hours sleep but six years down the road those people are like

i'm going to sleep. It's gotten a lot better now, but I remember how much it was the older guys who finally realized, I got to clean up my diet. Then it was sleep. Sleep, yeah. I did an internship with Carl Rockies back in 2006. And one of the first things that I remember the big league strength coach telling me was that he can always spot the minor league guys that are going to do well in the majors.

Because right when they show up to spring training their first year, they're the guys that actually go home. You play 180 games in a row throughout the season. You play every single day. And the guys that play video games, the guys that go out to the bars, that go party, it's like those guys just don't last. You can't be in the league for 10 years and live that lifestyle. You just crash and burn too early.

The guys that, like, take the recovery super serious, they go home, they go to sleep, and they just wake up and do it all over again. Those are the guys that have longevity. Coach King, can you tell them about Greg Olson's, like, of all the people I've ever met, you know, he's probably the only dude I've ever been a fan of. Yeah. But, like, the dude has survived a long time at a really tough position,

tight end position. Can you tell them, like, how he takes care of himself? Because it's pretty amazing. Yeah, I think, well, you know, Greg's here's what people don't understand too is the end like and i and and andrew said it the investment that the high level people do that no one knows they're doing like the amount of money they'll pay an extra massage therapist to come to their house. The chef that prepares half their meals during the week. So, you know, Greg's an old University of Miami guy. And, you know, the U always prided themselves on hardworking guys that had talent.

Like, you know, you hear the phrase, hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. But when that talent works hard, big things happen. And that was one of the things that the old Miami teams prided themselves on. That was something that I saw live when we were playing USC in the 2000s when I was at Arizona State during the Reggie Bush, Wendell White, Ryan Khalil's, Sean Cody's, Ray Malaluga, Brian Cushing era of SC.

And, you know, Greg's one of those guys. So work and year-long training, out of all the guys that I coached in the NFL for nine years, from year one when I met Greg to year nine when we ended it at the Panthers together, no one was a pure 365, like he took it to heart, 365 days. Now, I had really good guys, Keeley and these guys. The guy who's going to be that next guy is McCaffrey. This is a guy who does – because of the confidence he put in me,

I'm not – let me just – I'll say it this way. What he does outside the building to make sure he is going to dominate is like no other. I mean, you hear like the LeBron James. I spent a million dollars of my own money outside of the facility to be prepared. Christian McCaffrey is that type of guy. He is going to look. He has an entourage of people behind him that only have his best interest at heart. So a lot of it is the same. Greg did a lot of it,

does a lot of it on his own because Greg likes the process. Like Greg loves training. Greg's worked with good people. He worked with Pete Bomarito for a long time down in florida he understands his move like i would hire greg olsen to be a field coach for me like he he would he would be somebody that i have enough confidence he understands enough skill he understands movement enough that if he wanted to coach to be in the strength department that he would definitely be on my staff as one of our field coaches if you take the pressure off guys like me who like to stay in the weight room but his meticulousness uh his sleep his nutrition like even these guys like they even are smart enough to realize now that during the season your diet changes like you heard like gluten-free gluten-free gluten, gluten-free, gluten-free,

eat clean, eat clean, eat clean. And then the guys are like, man, I'm losing weight. I can't hold my weight. And then they realize during the season they got to eat a little bit of, you know, garbage, so to speak, because at the end of the day, football, there is something to be said about girth. Yeah. So it's a very unique setting.

And Greg prides himself on it like he he's going to outwork you somehow or some way even he he would be a guy like when he would when i would tell him hey man you got to pull something off well i'm not training to be old i said i'm not talking about being old i'm talking about if you were 12 years old whether you're 36 years old there's only so much you can do yeah and and that because he was so worried like oh you're trying to you know i'm not getting you know i'm not old i said i'm not saying you're old i'm just saying that you already do more than everybody else. You can't add without subtracting. And, you know, because his big thing was, and again, the best guys I saw were the best players.

The guys who last the longest to me always think they're getting cut, no matter how good they are. Like he came to work always talking about they're going to draft the tight end try to take my spot i'm gonna you know they they just like talk themselves into like yeah nobody's better than me i mean it's just it's like crazy when you're when you sit down and you have some 22 year old that just uh went for making zero dollars and living in a trashy apartment and now they have two commas in their bank account and now they got girls to deal with they got every option that exists in the world is there a meeting at like day one of like strength practice whatever whatever you guys

sit down you go look we're about to if you think your life was crazy in college now you got money to just pour gasoline all over this fire you need to relax and how how do we how do you approach that of talking like because they're the edge it's an education process of like dude you're only gonna have two commas for a little while if you go out and get nine girls pregnant right now. Yeah. I would say I treated my role a little bit different because we had player engagement types of people who – and the NFL does a very good job. They have a lot of programs in place.

Like there's rookie meetings. Like you have to attend rookie meetings. It's NFL mandated. Then they had second-year meetings. And then they even went to third-year meetings because the data was showing that really the first couple, it was like around years two and three where the guys really started figuring out there whether the hustle was real or the hustle wasn't.

I would bring guys in that I could tell understood what was going on in my office or talk to them because we were, we always train the rookies independently when they first got there. So you can start building that group relationship. But yeah, big, the big thing that I would do is I would just throw like certain realities out to them about where they're coming from and where they're at regardless of how much money they make like for example you know you play at a major college with walk-ons there's 120 guys on the team and generally when you go to training camp the rules i think state you can have 105

when school starts most teams add walk-ons. Yeah. We're never going to have more than 63 guys on our roster, but we bring 90 in. Do the math. We didn't add. We subtract. You are looking to replace somebody and take somebody's locker.

Yeah. You're trying to take your locker in the NFL. That's a motivation. You're not getting a stipend check if you're not good enough like you did in college on scholarship. You are getting cut and you're getting a real job. So for every guy that's there, how many of your teammates wish you were there? Yeah. Did you ever have a college strength coach job?

Oh, yeah. I coached 19 years in college. Oh, nice. I only know about the Panthers. Tell me what's some of the biggest differences between – I'll give you a quick background. Let's do it. We just got right into it.

I didn't even hear the background. The difference between college and pro? Like the conversation, the program. Well, because here hear the background. The difference between college and pro? Like the conversation, the program. Well, because here's the difference. Now you're talking with men. You're talking with guys who have gone through the gauntlet. I go back to, you know, there's a difference between talking to a 22-year-old rookie and a 17-year-old freshman.

You're dealing with kids versus you're dealing with young men then you're dealing with old it's a totally different dynamic like i've changed my whole complex if i were to coach college again but i look at it from the standpoint of the college strength coach for the lack of a better term is a bad cop like you handle the discipline you're gonna ride these dudes it's the old break them down and build them up process where in the pros i thought i had to be more of the good cop like i'm not breaking you down i'm doing whatever i can to help you play this game for as long as you can and make as much money as you can. My ultimate goal is helping your longevity, durability,

and availability to be in the game. So the college deal is a lot about development. Like you're still working with guys who are trying to accomplish a lot. The NFL, I don't want to say it's maintaining because the way the college games changed, specifically with offensive linemen, there's a lot more development now that needs to be done with young offensive linemen as an NFL strength program than there ever has because of the way the offenses have changed

in college and high school. So it's changed from that complexity, but you can, like, like, I think you can, I'm not saying I want to be a soft coach, but you got to coach tough, and I, what I mean by tough is you got to hold those guys really accountable in college, you got to teach them the way, but I think sometimes we've held their hand so much. And I think what you're trying to get at too, that when they get to college to the pros, they don't know what to do because they've had their hand held so much. Like I tell people from my specific standpoint as a strength coach,

in college the onus of training is on me, the strength coach. In the pros, the onus of training is on the athlete the strength coach. In the pros, the onus of training is on the athlete because of the way the rules are written. I see those guys on campus at the NFL level or the professional level in football for eight weeks at a time where I see the college kid during that same off season or whatever you want to call it, eight months of the time.

And I'm telling you, you're going to be there at six in the morning. You're going to go to class. You're going to eat at these times. And that's what happens like at college. Like when I tell our guys when to close, look, man, when you leave here, you got to develop your routines. And like I was telling you earlier, my hardest problem now of not being a coach at the University of the professional setting is and working from home is building a routine like I'm used

to being here's here here here here now it's like oh if something pops up as long as I get my work done for the day it does it does it matter what time I start my work day or end my workday? For me, it does, but I'm still learning that because of the uniqueness of what I'm able to do now at this point in my life. But like you're saying, you get a young rookie and he's used to just six months ago being woke up at six o'clock every morning to lift weights and now he's at home and can lift weights whenever he wants you know how that goes oh i'm gonna roll out of bed late oh i'll go work out at 12 oh you know what i'll go to two oh you know what i'll go at four oh you know

what i'll just start tomorrow yeah and tomorrow starts five weeks from now and you want to know why you're getting cut. Guys don't get cut in the NFL as much as they're not athletic enough or talented enough to play. They get cut because they screw their routine up. Yeah. They have to get cut at that working. Every training is part of your job. Like people forget that.

You want to be a really good and a professional athlete it's not what you're doing during the in-season it's what people don't see continue to give you your shot sit on your ass all off season very few guys are going to show up to training camp in this day and age and be able to last and make it through yeah too much talent i was actually thinking of more about the position of yet i think that yes on the higher level like teaching kids how to live a successful life in college is really important but when i think about a college strength conditioning coach um i think about so much of them unraveling because the high school coach is not nearly as skilled or as seasoned as the college coach and then to get to one of the 16 18 teams i don't

watch the nfl i don't is it 18 teams 32 awesome um i have no idea i haven't watched an nfl game in a long time but when you get to that if you're one of the top 32 strength coaches in the world or in the country you clearly know what the hell is going on so the level of coaching goes up you think that well well the level of coaching has to increase but if you take somebody from high school to college and there's still these young men you're going back and teaching a lot of movement patterns and like programming nutrition like that role by the time they get to the nfl you don't have time to sit down and say oh like well here's how we do a power clean here's how we develop speed and power and you would be surprised then i'm very surprised because i feel like that is tell you this some of the best strength coaches out there to me what i've noticed is

and this is no this is no bashing hell i've i've been i've done i've had bad guys lift bad too but the best the best so-called technicians for the lack of a better term that I've worked with have been the the players who've come from the division two and division three ranks who were good enough to make the NFL and I go back to that because talent supersedes a lot talent can hide compensations you don't the great the best lifters don't make the best football players and the best football players don't make the best lifters. I mean, but the guys at the lower levels have to be more efficient than the guys who are more talented. And we always saw guys that came from the Division II from a technical standpoint

were way more polished in the weight room than guys at the bigger levels because, asvis can tell you it's a lot of it's number chasing it has nothing to do with anything about it's just it's about bloated numbers and who cares how you do something as long as you do it they're not looking at it from transferable traits i mean we see it all the time i mean that's why power cleans and olympic movements and in university setting strength programs get a bad rap because no one's willing to teach it correctly so it's just a bastardized reverse curl and it has nothing to do with with lifting like i like i'd say a lot of times you get a guy who can so-called clean 400 pounds

but yet he has a 24 and vertical something's not right yeah yeah that's why mash is on twitter all the time yelling at people man yeah i totally agree with him because he's doing that because he wants his followers to get up his mark mark watts you know is uh he was i He was at Denison. Yeah, great guy. Great coach, too. Unbelievable coach. Or Coach Brown up in Wisconsin. D3 school.

Unbelievable. Sometimes you get these people that Coach King gets so mad about. A lot of Smith coaches that get a lot of the notoriety are the ones that are ripping their shirt off and like flexing and like banging their chest and they're not really coaching is more of the rah-rah and so it's interesting to bring the juice gotta bring the juice which is important you would say but fake juice is not real juice exactly you walk into if you have the right if you have the right juice you don't need to display fake juice like i walk into a room i got the juice i don't need to act like an ass clown to

show you i got the juice or why don't why do you not tear your sleeves off and just because one one is i've got decent size arms i don't want to embarrass my guys and two is it's not about me like it's not about me like exactly i you know i don't it's it's about those guys i all i need to know is that my guys knew that i had their best interests at heart even even back when i was acting like, not necessarily an ass count, but like, if there's one thing I learned in the NFL is communication. Everybody talked about communication's key, but it's how you communicate, it's the tone of your voice,

it's how you relay things. And, you know, early in my career, man, I'd get on people, not because they needed to hear what I had to say, and sometimes it probably didn't come out right. Now I think I can still be a hard coach, coach them hard, give them what they need without the negative, you're you know you're not you're soft hey man if you're you're in if you're playing any sport you're probably not soft and there's no reason to get so the the like uh the hate i don't want to call it hazing but like the negative connotations that people want to try

to spark a fire in somebody especially in this day day and age too, people are not used to that. When I came up, that was part of the deal. But now you have to adapt to what society has created. Like everybody wants to talk about, oh, football players are soft in this day and age. Well, no, they're not. They just – they don't know. They don't – you can't call a guy

soft because he never did two a days hey they don't do two a days anymore you can't keep talking about two a days because the way the rules have changed there's not even two days in high school these guys don't know what it's like to do two full practices a day in pads so you can't call them soft because they don't know how to do it. They've never been exposed to it. They don't even know how to do it. Yeah, they would do it. Yeah, so it's like –

Yeah, guaranteed they would do it if you told them to do it. Yeah, so did I. So did I. It was brutal. We had two major practices. I would have loved not to have done that. Yeah, we had two major practices and a special teams practice at midday. I mean, so it's the way things have changed.

So you can't expect somebody to do something they've never been exposed to. Well, they also change all of that stuff because the systems get better. You know, just beating somebody down for no reason and calling them tougher, even though it may look tougher, doesn't make you a better athlete. Oh, and again, you're right. A lot of it is because systems change. But when you still have people at higher ranking positions, a.k.a. head coaches, position coaches who came up through that system,

they're always going to compare back to that system. Yeah. Yeah, I just think that science is catching up. You know how you guys use the GPS, which is for strength coaches watching this, it's a good thing to learn that can earn you a position in the NFL if you get really good. Your boy, that's his main job, right, the GPS? Yeah, I mean, here's what I'll tell you about data.

Hold on. Before we get into this, what is the GPS and how is it being used? I mean, here's what I'll tell you about data. Hold on. Before we get into this, what is the GPS and how is it being used? I mean, I know it. You're tracking like player load, miles per hour, distances of practice, amount of times they accelerate, high speed running, decelerations. It's the same GPS as your car. Pretty close.

Yeah. Gotcha. accelerations it's the same gps as your car pretty close yeah yeah gotcha i i know this but i don't know if many of our people in our audience know that they're tracking vector stuff where you can do like uh body awareness like if you're loading one side of the body compared to another uh you know and it's just like velocity based stuff there. Everybody wants to collect data. My biggest question is how many people are actually using it? That's where we're getting caught up with now. Oh, I'm, I'm tracking this, this, this, and this, and that. Are you tracking it? Or are you collecting it? That would be my biggest question. I think a lot of people are collecting data and doing nothing with it because they just think they have to because everybody else is yeah there's a lot of things that I did early in my career that at this point in time I I didn't do not because I didn't

think it was good or bad is because we didn't have the manpower and there wasn't enough time to go over every single piece of data there is. That's why they're hiring people now to be specific for this. But even then, I've watched those guys. There's not enough time in their day for them to evaluate everything. You have to figure out what the metrics you really want. Does there have value in evaluating in that? And then are you willing to financially support that with the proper staff?

Like in my case, we had a guy who did the GPS, but he was also one of my assistants. And rightfully so, he went in all in with the GPS because that was his gig. But when we had after-pract practice lifts in the end season, I lost the strength coach because he had to do GPS. But now you want me to do velocity based work and collect all that data when I'm already down a strength coach. You see,

so there, there are certain things that be said now in college, you got 20 frigging strength coaches and interns running around. Yeah. They're all sleeping in the gym. You just tell them to do it. But, you know got 20 frigging strength coaches and interns running around. Yeah, they're all sleeping in the gym. You just tell them to do it. You just tell them to do it. But, again, even then, how many people are really utilizing the data for what it is?

Like I always do, like with sleep apps and readiness apps. I think there's some merit with that stuff, but I always go to this. Do you really want that athlete to wake up on game day and it tells them, oh shit, I'm not supposed to get out of bed today. Do I really want that guy to know that? No, then why would I worry about it Monday through Saturday if I don't want them to know it on Sunday? I mean, and again, that's just me. everybody oh yeah we use it readiness apps we're doing we're doing the questionnaires

in the morning on the dashboard okay and what are you going to do when that app tells you that kid shouldn't be playing on game day and you got it and you're going to tell the coach that or just like with the GPS coach the guy's spiking too hard we need to pull him out of practice yeah i could see that in like a baseball setting just not working at all just you've got nine guys on the field all of them had a trip last night they're already playing 160 180 games whatever it is and it's like everyone's got bad sleep all the time look at the basketball play that's why yeah that's what i was like with with uh oh we're not gonna play this guy in back-to-back games anymore or they've even and even them i give them credit they've spread out their schedule so they could reduce the amount

of back-to-backs. And there's some merit. But even like you've even talked about how these guys, like these NBA players where the best ones take naps because they always play at night. Yeah. The younger kids are playing Fortnite. LeBron James is taking a nap. Then you want to know why at 35 years old and he came out of high school at 18,

he still possibly could have won the MVP or at least given it a run to be an MVP. He's going to play in the NBA with his son. That's the coolest thing a dad could ever do. I just couldn't even imagine. Well, they've got to change the rules a little bit and get back to leaving high school because even if he goes to college it's going to be hard if he can last that long my question would be because this is the problem with high level athletes too as good as he's playing now he's not going to play at that

level four years from now it's just not going to happen and And the question is, does he want to be that guy just so he can say he can play with his son, or will his ego say, if I can't play at a point where I think I can win championships, I'm not going out like that. You see it in football all the time. The hardest part for an athlete is to realize it's a wrap. It is. But can't, like, in a team sport like that, he's, because of his experience, he's smarter and in better shape than all of the, like, he's got old man strength

plus a brain on him that's so much, like, it's so much deeper into the game and so much smarter than everybody else on the floor that he can pick his spots and still be more effective by having maybe one or 2% less of the total skill that he's had in his life. Or he doesn't have, you know, he's at 97% of his, his first step from a couple of years ago,

but he knows how to create space better. Like those guys play on a totally different level. And he could really, and, and, and probably to say that too is because of his skill set, if he moved to just a pure point guard and took a little bit of a load off of himself and wasn't playing 38 minutes and worrying about being a guy,

yeah, I mean, that's a debate. Yeah. I just think – I don't know enough about basketball, really. I'm just thinking athletes in general as they get – We all saw Michael Jordan. Yeah. Toward Michael Jordan's end, we kept trying to do it.

It got way more than 1% or 2%. It was like – It's like Jerry Rice, Joe Montana. These guys, man, they just – and a lot of them is when they were so good and they're – like Tom Brady. Tom Brady is going to be highly motivated this year. Yeah.

Yes. To prove that he can be successful outside of the Patriots. It's just like you see it a lot of times. You see these guys, these older athletes that get moved on to a different team they'll have that spike year one because they want to prove to their old bosses they still had it but then it's the years after that yeah on what happens after that because he's still doing tb12 while he's getting all fired up right now or you think he's back yeah he's got after it he's getting all fired up right now? Or do you think he's back in the weight room getting after it? He's got a 2,000 square foot weight room at his house, I heard.

Oh, that wouldn't – yeah. He's TV-12ing it up. Yeah, I know that strength coach. He's doing more than TV-12. That's all I'm saying. He sold a lot of books. Oh, that's great. But that's what we we've created this so it doesn't matter who you are man if you got something going for you that people think is legit

there's a lot of frauds out there selling material that haven't done a whole lot of stuff that aren't selling the chemical compounds with their books yo i bet he followed that to the t though but if you're a 16 year old strength athlete or 16 year old kid trying to get like don't do what tom brady's doing when he's 38 years old that's and seeing that's that's the cell like what what tom brady's doing now is very very probably uh dominant specific for what Tom Brady needs. And you're correct. Does that mean the 16-year-old high school quarterback needs to be doing the TV 12 program?

No. I mean, I'll just flat out say no. Now, if he happens to be a similar career to Tom Brady and he's a 12-year vet, maybe that's something you graduate to because at that point in time, it's really about skill and being prepared to play a very, very unique position in the NFL. Yo, Jens, I got a bad class. Yeah, we're going to shut it down right now. Oh, my gosh. This is online class. Tell them you're going to shut it down right now. Oh, my gosh. This is online class. Tell them you're going to substitute this.

Joe, where can they find you? Where can you find me? Well, right here now on Zoom. I love it. 3.30 a.m. in the gym. Yeah, I mean, I just – so you mean like where can you find me? On the website. As a fraud coach on the internet where do you like to promote your your workout of the day uh i do promote it on

the wad yeah i can't wait to see you i call a medley trifecta medleys because i always do three exercises for the most part uh you can find me on Instagram and Twitter at BigHousePower, and then the website is BigHousePower.com. Coach Travis Mash. MashLead.com. Thanks for being our coach. Yeah, man. We'll do this again soon.

The next time, let's wake up a little later. You know, I'm still on the – I call it the carnivore virus. My family gets pissed off. You think this is a joke. I mean, I'm locked up, man. You got to laugh. You got to laugh. I'm going to bring humor to it.

Doug Larson. Later, Travis. Joe, thanks for coming on, buddy. Yeah, man. Appreciate it. You bet. You can find me on Instagram at Douglas C. Larson. I'm Anders Varner at Anders Varner.

We're Barbell Shrugged at barbell underscore shrugged, one-ton challenge.com. So that's clean jerk squat, deadlift and bench press at the lifetime goal. 2000 pounds, 1200 for you ladies. Come and hang out with us at one ton challenge.com forward slash join. Let's get strong.

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