Barbell Shrugged - Strength, Transformation and Building a Body For Life w/ Bill Phillips -EP 187

Episode Date: July 23, 2015

This week on Barbell Shrugged, we interview transformation expert and fitness legend, Bill Phillips. Hey, this is Rich Froning. You're listening to Barbell Shrugged. For the video version, go to barbellshrugged.com. Welcome to Barbell Shrugged. I'm Mike Bledsoe here with Doug Larson. Chris Moore got CTP in Charlotte behind the cameras. We have traveled here to Muscle Beach to hang out, get yoked. Home of fitness. It worked. We're yoked.

Look at this. We stumbled upon Mr. Bill Phillips. Total accident. Man. Stumbled onto him. He just happened to walk around. He just wanders around here. With a gun. We got connected. I was just hanging around on the beach here and saw Mr. Bledsoe come by.

Mike got recognized. I can talk to that guy. Bill was like, oh, it's so great to meet you. I was like, hey, man. I knew you from your podcast. No, but if you don't know much about Bill, he wrote a book called Body for Life. He started EAS. Myoplex is a whey protein you may have heard of.

What was the magazine again, Doug? Muscle Media. Muscle Media. That's right. He was reminding me of that. I was like, oh, yeah. And now you run a transformation center. Yeah.

Yeah. So I grew up in the, I mean, I was in this culture in the 80s and the 90s. So I was competing in the Teenage Mr. America contest and competing out here in Venice, California. It's right back in memories, huh? Yeah. Oh, yeah. We had a lot of good times back there. Good old days.

I moved out here when I was 18 years old and trained right here in Venice. And I was getting ready for the Teenage Mr. America contest. And I was going to old and trained right here in Venice and was getting ready for the Teenage Mission America contest. And I was going to take it all the way. So we had a lot of fun. But I turned that passion for fitness and muscle building and training, you know, into my calling. And it started here 30 years ago. And now today I'm still teaching people how to exercise. I'm still teaching people how to eat healthy. And I'm still helping people get their body back, get control of that aspect of their life. And it's taken a long journey.

You didn't see it when you were 18, just how gold the future might be? You can't imagine when you're 18, you're like, oh, I want to do something in fitness. But you have no idea exactly what yet. We all kind of share that same type of deal. I think everybody does. I mean, if I went back to my parents' house right now, there's probably still a VHS tape that the Body for Work video that y'all put out. How long ago was that? I mean, 20 years ago?

18 years ago. 18 years ago. I remember buying that and then I went and bought the book afterward, and I was going to my mom as a kid just being like, you've got to look at this. This is so incredible. You can do this. We can do this.

It was really inspiring for me to see the transformations that you laid out in those videos and with that book. It was one of the first legit exposures that I had to the fitness world when I was younger. So very cool that we're hanging out with you now. Yeah, I think when... It comes full circle. Now you guys are teaching the methods

and you're inspiring other people. Corey mentioned, he's like, do you want to connect with Bill Phillips? And we're like, yes. Like body for life, Bill Phillips? Yeah, because I think we were all influenced by you at some point. Yeah, hopefully for the better.

Absolutely. Absolutely, yeah. But it really started with muscle building and just a love of training and then teaching other people how to do it. And then I wrote a magazine and I started a Metrex supplement company back in 1990 and then the EAS company.

I want to know the Metrex connection. Yeah. I brought Metrex out of a critical care nutrition into the muscle building market and it was one of the first big successes. It was originally for preventing muscle wasting in patients in the hospital. Right, yeah. It was being used in critical care.

I remember that. They didn't feed those old school protein bars to patients, did they? How'd they get them down? They didn't feed them protein bars. Their early proteins were a little rough. Dude, those Metrix protein bars, you had to spend an afternoon with that thing. They just put it in an IV bag, and they just dripped it.

Just a big third in there. So when I was running Metrex, we had one product, one SKU, vanilla myoplex protein powder. And after I went on to EAS and started the EAS company, the Metrex came out with bars and came out with some other products and whatnot. But I was pretty specific about what I would and wouldn't put on a shelf and and it always comes down to this if i wouldn't use it myself i'm not making it and trying to sell it to somebody else but i i remember when i got my first uh metrics bar god um we were we'd use it to like pound nails into rolls. This is not a detour bar with caramel and chocolate, man.

This is something different. It was no detour bar. But it's taken all those paths. And whether it was making a documentary film or doing podcasts or radio shows, as we used to call them back in the day. And it's just been something that I've always tried to find an outlet for. So now I've come all the way back to where I started, which is working with people. And I got into business and I had 300 employees and I was running a company and I was removed from doing the actual hands-on work with people. And I always wanted to get back to that. So I didn't want to stay in business. And I've been

successful and lucky in business. But it wasn't where my passion is. It's not where my heart is. I wanted to get back to working with people. So now I have a transformation center in Colorado, 5,000 square feet. It's a gym, but it's a community center. It's where people come to lay it all out on the line and take their shirt off, take their before photo and just get some relief and get some help. They can trust what's going on there. And I guess this is a holistic, balanced, comprehensive approach. Here's what you eat and work out like this.

Chris, it is holistic and then it deals with the whole person. So how do they feel? How do they look? And where are they you know in the process so when we say where where do i want to be at my goal we have to start with where are you so sometimes people don't feel very good about themselves when they get into that process and we want to create an environment where everybody feels accepted everybody feels positive um and that's not the case with every gym and and not very many gyms really have that community spirit i know yours does and that's not the case with every gym, and not very many gyms really have that community spirit,

and I know yours does, and that's one of the things that I like about watching your videos and your stuff on YouTube is that you can see that everybody feels like they're winning, and that's important. That's the biggest obstacle for most people is they wait, train to feel better, but you were saying earlier,

when we were talking, is like people need to feel better faster and that's going to help them in the gym and a lot of times people are like kind of kind of defeating themselves you know they may be getting some results but they never give themselves credit right what you said um is the key people need to get motivated by their own results and that's something i learned right here working out in Venice Beach is that when I could see that my workouts were helping my muscles

and I was getting, I'd go from third place to second place in a contest, I'd feel like I was winning and improving. But not enough people do the right methods. And they go to the gym, they try to diet, and they don't see results. And that lack of results

takes them out of the game because it ruins their motivation. So you can get people motivated, or I can get people motivated, but that only lasts a few weeks or a few hours. It's like the sugar rush, right? That's right. The life day-to-day grind sets in, like, maybe I didn't want this as much as I thought. Yeah. So some level of self-mastery and success is what people need. And they need to start

maybe looking at that in a different way, get a different perspective on it. Because one, just showing up and doing something proactive with lifting weights or signing up for a CrossFit

or doing a bodybuilding event. You're being proactive. You're getting off the sideline in the game. You're part of the solution, not part of this pandemic of overweight and obesity and preventable ill health that we have in in the western world today so just showing up at a gym you should feel like a winner mary you're saying earlier something about uh if you the way you talk to yourself was the way you

talk to other people then you wouldn't be friends with yourself so there's something about like your own self-talk is the most important place to start with being happy with your results. Because a lot of people that make crazy results, but they're kind of psychologically on the treadmill, where they just keep running, and keep running, and keep running,

and they keep getting nowhere. And they're not any happier, even though they're fitter, and they're making progress in the eyes of their environment. The people around them are like, wow, you're doing really well. But maybe in their head, they're still just not happy, and they can't figure it out. Right. Um, but that's another good point. And like I said, the barbell Buddha over here should be, should have given that a lot of thought because you're really looking at how does a person change?

How does a person change their thinking? How does a person change their perception? And, um, that's really the key. That's really the transformation, isn't it? To, to see, you know, that I'm, I'm succeeding because my body fat is 15% and it was 20%. But there's also a mindset that you get into this, and I'll point right up here to Muscle Beach again, where you see people with the most beautiful bodies, men and women, and you talk to them, and they're still beating up on themselves. Goddamn calves are not big enough. Mike was just saying that about himself know my body fat's still six percent and i said

oh my god i said if you talk to your friends the way you talk to yourself you wouldn't have any friends because this is awful way to treat somebody yeah um but eventually you you got to learn to really feel good about the process and have fun with it you know it really should be your recreation and correct me if i'm wrong but you were one of the first people that really popularized using weights to lose body fat before before it was more mainstream like you were one of the people that people were doing that's right like it was like the cardio 80s you know like you know high mileage all cardio like very little weights, high carb, low fat. Coming out of that era, you helped bring weights to mainstream society by saying that they can help with fat loss.

They won't just make you big and bulky. Right. If there's one thing that I'm happy to be known for, a lot of people might have tried my programs over the years or tried the supplements but if there's one thing that I can say that I feel good about is that really bringing in a paradigm that weights are where it's at and I'd like to see every

kid in high school or even junior high have a class in weight lifting American College of Sports Medicine now has a program for kids and we used to think well you don't start your seven-year-olds on weightlifting, but now they do recommend that. Weightlifting is the key to weight loss. You know, you cannot lose weight and keep it off if you just wipe yourself out. And dieting isn't the key either. So the big breakthrough that I had in the nineties and the big breakthrough that was kind of cauterized with the body for life book is use weights to lose weight. Yeah. Use weight

lifting to lose that body fat. And that's still something you see today. There's a lot of different incarnations of transformation, which really came out of body for life. But that's also through my own experience is that, you know, I learned that aerobic exercise just makes you wiped out if that's all you do. But if you lift weights, you do weightlifting, powerlifting, bodybuilding exercises, it's literally the best medicine you can have for losing fat. And now, guys, I'm 50. I'm 51 in just a few weeks. Pretty good looking. And I'm telling you that weightlifting

is the key to feeling good and having a healthy heart, healthy brain. It's the best anti-aging medicine. It's the best fat loss medicine.

And I think it's good for mind and esteem. Yeah, certainly for spirit. Anytime we work with, we have clients that are fat loss clients you know

they want to get leaner and a lot of times we're programming uh at least three days a week of weight training or resistance training or and then on on another couple days a week there's quite a bit of calisthenics and whatnot and all the time they're hitting us with i want more cardio i'm like i'm like and we'll throw cardio in too. Say this thing. Don't push myself. But it's like, and I know that they're not doing all the resistance training. They're not doing all the weightlifting, the CrossFit. They're not doing all that, and they're still wanting cardio on the side type of thing. Right. And so it's like the reinforcing of the idea of more strength training is good for you to be leaner.

It's like, what do you say to somebody who like they just can't grasp that because you've got people that are secret jedi mind tricks for 30 or 40 years these people have been hearing i've got to run i've got to swim i've got to do all this cardio activity in order to get this result that i want what do you tell that person that has like all that bad information and right well there our center, the first rule is FTDI. Follow the damn instructions. FTDI. Follow the damn instructions.

I like that one. We're going to start using that now. FTDI, man. Follow the damn instructions. Rule number one. It is, really, because you put out a protocol. You've got a lot of intelligence in it. You've got a lot of experience in it. You stay lean, you stay strong and, and you know, it works. Um, and if you thought it worked better to do more aerobics,

you would tell them to do more aerobics. That's true. That's when people go, do you think this would be better? I was like, if I thought this would be better, I'd be doing that. I want you to succeed. I was waiting for you to bring it up. Why would I give you that? It's incredible though. People think that for some reason. Once you're aware, now is the right time to do it, Grasshopper. I want you to learn on your own. We had a group of women at our transformation center when we had a local program the summer before last. We had 20 gals and we'd'd bring them in, and we'd do high-intensity interval aerobic exercise on our spin bikes for 25 minutes, and we'd do that three times a week.

Then we'd have them weight train two or three times a week, and they had just the right dosage of intense exercise. Well, there was about 10 of these gals that were going to 24-hour fitness and adding another hour of aerobics at least three days a week. You've got to get those calories off. I know.

They think that's the way it works, but it's not the way it works. And at six weeks, we measured their body fat and their weight. And at 12 weeks, we measured their body fat and their weight. And I will tell you something that was stunning. The 10 gals that were doing the extra aerobics got half the results. Oh, wow. Of the gals that had the discipline. How much more work were they doing?

Yeah. They were wasting time, and they were not getting results. So that's a big barrier. And that talks about paradigms and what you believe. And more is not better. And that's a tricky equation because it seems like it makes sense, you know, but it doesn't. There's so many things involved. The way the thyroid hormone down-regulates or up-regulates, the way appetite changes

with more exercise. Sometimes there's a tipping point where you do just a little bit too much exercise and you really start changing the way you're eating. You automatically start eating more food, more carbs. So Mike's in that gain window now. Yeah. He started lifting a little too much and now he's lifting himself out of house and home. His body fat's all the way up to 8% now.

Fatty fat fat. He's looking a little soft. Yeah. 8% is pretty high for me. 7%. Oh, no. But more is not better. And there's a real key to getting the right results from exercise.

And, you know, anybody that's poured themselves wholeheartedly into the research for 30 years uh like i have and a practical experience of it would come to the same conclusions it's not like i know something that the other researchers don't i i just i study the literature and i have the that empirical component so i see what people do in a real world and you can combine those um and you can come up with a very smart formula, which is the right amount of exercise, the right amount of food, and then keep it a positive mindset. And then the other key that I've learned since I did the Body for Life book is the importance of teamwork, the importance of having a community. And at our Transformation

Center, it's a community center as much as it is a gym. And everybody knows your name, like the bar Cheers. But they also know your goals. But they also know your goals. And the only thing they get at this bar is new protein shake. With Kahlua. No. My kind of protein shake. How is the transformation center different than a gym?

Yeah. Transformation Center is, you've got one component as a gym. It's got six pieces. And I say, we're going to do exercise, we're going to learn about nutrition, and we're going to get the mindset, we're going to get motivation, and we're going to get the support and encouragement. I said, these are the things that you have to have to be successful at this. And when I say successful, I mean that they're going from here to here. So the before and after picture is still something I use with every person I work with, no matter who they are.

We take a picture. If you're in good shape, we're going to get in great shape. And if you've been off track, we're going to get on track. There's no judgment about how you look right now. I've been out of shape and I've been in shape. Is that a commonly used tool before body laugh came out, Bill, the before and after picture? Did you kind of spearhead and popularize that method? It's called objectivity. We started using that back in 1992 when we had a... So if you don't like those before and after pictures,

it's his fault. We have the real ones. But when I say succeed, I mean get from here to here. And we use objective measures to do that, so it can't be subjective. Oh, well, I got some great progress, but I didn't achieve my goal. Well, we have to keep those goals objectively verifiable.

You've seen the shred of people who look great in the heavens, they still don't feel the connection. No, I met a lot of people that did a Body for Life program and went from fat to fit and had ripped abs and were just as much of an ornery son of a bitch afterwards as they were before sometimes even more so we we try to help people you know feel good and get and there's a certain spirit that you want to have when you do a transformation and that is that you know i'm doing my part uh to make a difference and i'm making a

change that hopefully will make a difference and i've seen so many fathers and so many moms, and I've seen kids inspire their parents, and I've seen moms and dads inspire their grandparents. And when you make a change, never underestimate the difference that that will make for somebody else. Get them involved in CrossFit. Get them involved in weightlifting. Get them involved in bodybuilding. So be the change you want to see, right? When your kids see you putting that ahead of everything else and making time for it and walking them through it and showing them stuff, it's a powerful gesture. And I never thought I'd work with so many parents. And I never thought I'd see so many people.

You know, when we started here with bodybuilding, it was all about me, me, me. But by the time you're in your 30s and 40s and then my age, 50, you know, you realize it's not about you, you, you. Right. Not about me, me, me. But by the time you're in your 30s and 40s and then my age 50, you realize it's not about you, you, you. Not about me, me, me either. And it's about what changes can I do in myself that would make a difference in the lives of others. And I think that spirit, along with good workouts, along with good healthy eating and supporting and encouraging one another, it makes the Transformation center completely different than Gold's Gym Venice Beach gotcha

alright we're going to take a break real quick when we come back I want to talk about how you actually get into getting into the transformation game what you do with people awesome this is Tim Ferriss and you were listening to Barbell Shrugged for the video version go to barbellshrugged.com Barbell Shrugged is brought to you by you to learn more about how you can support the show go to barbellshrugged. For the video version, go to barbellshrugged.com. Barbell Shrugged is brought to you by

you. To learn more about how you can support the show, go to barbellshrugged.com and sign up for the newsletter. Let's do it. Polished machine. 177 shows, is that it? Yeah. I don't feel like a polished machine. The longer I do it, the worse it gets.

That's not true. No, it's getting better, but my standards go up. That's right. And we're back with Bill Phillips talking about transformation. And we want to dig right into when someone comes to you and they're looking to make change, where do you start? Right. So before we do any workouts or before we go to the store and get any healthy food, I sit down with people and I say,

we're going to answer the five key questions. And I say, this is the scaffolding that we're going to build the whole program around. And this doesn't matter what the goal is. If you want to run a marathon, if you want to do CrossFit competition you want to um just transform your body from fat to fit and lose 35 pounds in 12 weeks um it it all starts with these same key questions and the first question is you know where am i now i'll come back and talk about that a little bit the next question is where do i want to be okay the next question is when am i going to do this we're going to watch out for that monday that never comes because we keep saying Monday, Monday, Monday, you know, Monday never comes, man. There's something going on this weekend. We'll start Monday after the party.

So we get it. We get that question answered and we get a commitment. Um, and then why am I doing it? You know, I want to be healthier. I want to get, I was an athlete 10 years ago and I, I've always felt better as an athlete. And this is just part of me that I want to be healthier. I was an athlete 10 years ago, and I've always felt better as an athlete, and this is just part of me that I want to get back. Or my doctor said my cholesterol is way too high, and if I don't lose 30 pounds and get fit, then I'm going to have a heart attack like maybe a relative did. So I ask them, what is your reason for making the decision to make a change?

And, you know, the better your reason, the better your results. I've seen people that had very serious health issues that never were able to stick with a fitness program. They get that meeting with their doctor and then everything changes. So I said, the better your why, you know, the better your reason, the better your results. Sometimes we, we haven't really decided why we're doing it. Do you find with that question that people tend to have better results when they, with their reason, make it about somebody else that's not them? Like, I'm doing it for my kids or I'm doing it for my spouse or something like that where it's not so me-focused. It's more of I'm doing it for someone that's not me, anyone but me. Yeah, you guys ask a very good philosophical question i mean you um uh yeah i

mean for young guys you you've got a good perspective on this and we started messing up early yeah we made a shit ton of fucking up is the key to success fucking up is the key to success um it really is. You learn so much from adversity and not much from success. It really is true. People come to us through desperation or inspiration. Desperation, I love working with people who've had a heart attack. They're so compliant. They FTDI really well because they're scared, you know,

you know, they're scared shitless that, you know, they're going to, your life's going to end. And until you really have a close call like that, sometimes you'll, you'll never break away from the unhealthy habits, whether it's smoking or eating junk food or not exercising. It's hard to break them until something really jolts you, but they're desperate to make a change, and they're awesome to work with. But there's many people who are not desperate. They're inspired. So I said desperation or inspiration will bring you here, and there's a lot of people that it just clicks that my daughter is gaining weight. It's killing me.

It's breaking my heart. She's 17 kids are starting to judge her by her weight but and the mom realizes you know 40 years old never did anything for with fitness or body for life or or crossfit um and it just clicks she goes if i do this then my then my daughter will have a better chance of of uh you know getting getting into it and you can't push somebody into it you can lead them into it so you know with the parents that come to our camp um you know i say you know your kids can't hear what you're saying because what you're doing is deafening and they're so inspired to make the change for someone else and there's a lot of other people that come to our camp that are you know big-hearted people and

they're always taking care of somebody else right they take care of their parents. They take care of their kids. They take care of people at work. And the number one occupation we have is health care worker, whether it's nurses or doctors or chiropractors, and they're always trying to help somebody else. But until you really start taking care of yourself, you're going to run out of energy to give. I see that a lot with mothers.

Mothers just want to give, give, give. My wife has struggled with that. You want to give everything to your kids, and you forget that you can give better if you are fit and healthy first. I find I have the hardest time connecting with that because I'm not a woman and I don't have kids. So when I see them just giving, I'm like, you've got to do something for yourself. But I, I, because I can't really, it's hard for me to empathize with what it takes to

get out of that. Well, the, the one thing that I've, um thing that I've realized and been able to share is that it's actually selfish to let yourself get run down. And it's selfless, you know, at some point to say, look, I got to start taking care of myself. I can't give what I don't have. And if I want to help other people and I don't have any energy or any strength, how am I going to reach out and help lift someone else up? Because I'm weak and run down and sometimes even getting sick. So it's pretty selfless at a certain point to start taking care of yourself. And it's not selfish. And a matter of fact, you know, if you have bad habits or addictive habits and you let yourself go, you know, you realize that nobody around you

benefits from you being sick. And for you to continue to be sick and if you can stop it is selfish because it's like you're dragging everybody down with you and so there are issues there that are kind of deeper issues that are about how do i see myself their mind mindfulness issues they're uh you know kind of mature perspectives but you can have them at 20 or you can wait until you're 70 to kind of wake up and realize that there's a lot of reasons to do this, even if I don't want to be Mr. Venice Beach. And that's one of the things that we try to help people, you know, think through. Last thing I ask people, remember we said, where am I now? Where do I want to be?

When am I going to do this? Why am I going to do this? And then how am I going to do this? So the last question is usually people's first question, which is what should I do? Well, before we exactly, I'll just do that. And it's kind of like, it's kind of like someone goes, does this exercise, is it the best? I'm like the best for what? Does it work? I'm like, or I want to be a coach. What five books should I read and stop there? No, but you're exactly right. You'll see before and after pictures,

or you'll or you'll see somebody who's in great shape and say, well, what workout did you do? And it's not the workout that I did. It's how I did the workout. And it's how I ate. It's how I thought about the process, what motivated me or what inspired me or what drove me through it. And that's what I've seen by working with people firsthand through so many years. I've sat face-to-face with people that you swore were going to do great, and they drop out in five days. And I've sat face-to-face with people that, you know, left, and I would tell my friend, I'd say, no effing way is this guy going to do great. Six months later, he's a star pupil. I mean, there's been some people come through the program.

Yeah, I've seen people, like, surprise you. You're like, man, I totally didn't think they were going to make it today, too. So I've shown you. You're right. And are those the people that have the stronger why in your experience? There's something that I just can't explain is when somebody's ready, you know? When you're ready to make a change, you'll make it, you know, and when you're not ready, you'll find an excuse. Right. And that's an old saying, but it's absolutely true.

When you're ready and when you want it, you'll find a way. And when you're not ready and you don't want it, you'll find an excuse. And I've seen people that had everything in the mindset, the opportunity to get to a good gym, the understanding of good nutrition, and they don't apply it. So what makes it, what allows you to cross that abyss between knowing what to do and doing what you know? And I still have to, you know, give some of that up to saying it's beyond my explanation. But when somebody wants it, they find a way. Yeah. Some clicks inside. Yeah. it's beyond my explanation but when somebody wants it they find a way yeah yeah some clicks inside yeah and if it's not the other thing too is that everybody who's read my body for life book

or magazines know that i've never claimed to say this is the only way you know i said there's many right ways to get in shape to get your muscles strong get your heart healthy lose that weight get your spirit lifted up um and inspire somebody else to be healthy. There's many right ways to do that. But sure as hell, Body for Life and my methods is one of those ways. And what you realize is that when you get in the process, I only need one of those ways. So pick a way, pick a method, and stick with it. And there's a lot of good methods.

There's a lot of paths that get to the top of the mountain. Yeah. But pick one and stick with it. And there's a lot of good methods. There's a lot of, you know, paths that get to the top of the mountain. Yeah. But pick one and stick with it. We see people jump around quite a bit. And, you know, we have programs that are 12 months long. And sometimes people are like, oh, that's a big commitment. But, you know, one of the big reasons we do that is because we want people to kind of finish the path, you know know at least stick with something

and that's kind of our way of keeping people accountable and realize that a year is not very long a year is not that very long when it comes to if you're trying especially if you're trying to you think about where you are and where you want to be usually that's going to take even longer than a year a year is is being a little aggressive right how long are your transformations well like when you take people in what are the expectations there? Well, back in the Body for Life days when we took the bodybuilding programs that we did here in Southern California and we took and put in a book, we were talking about 12-week programs or sometimes 15-week program because you take somebody who's been working out and eating pretty well

and to get them ripped or get shredded, you know, in a few months. But now I work with a population that's usually 30 to 80 pounds overweight. And we look at six months and absolutely a year. Man, whoever said you can change a habit in 21 days? Oh, yeah. Holy shit. Oh, yeah. Change is the hardest thing people will take on, right?

To change a deep-seated habit that you can be carried around for a decade of your life is not something that's a big dragon to slay. That's another thing, too, is all these habits that happen outside of the gym have way more, I guess, influence over the result than people think. People think, oh, I just need to eat these three meals this way, and I need to hit the gym, and everything else will take care of itself. And it's simply not the case. Like getting more sleep or something like that can have way bigger impact than the weight training even that you're doing. Yeah, rest and recovery is the forgotten element. What do you do to help people get that habit changed?

I mean, because that really is the key to making it a lifestyle. I mean, I thought the first thing that helped me was forgiveness of myself and where I was. And I was okay that even if I had aggressed from a previous point, that now is where I was. And that from now, it's a matter of tomorrow, I make one tiny step. I figured anybody can make one tiny step. For me, whenever I had that mindset, it's easy to restart and to keep the language positive and help me get going. In a lot of our programs, we have like, we spend a month where it's like a challenge. If you don't get eight hours

of sleep, then you don't get credit. You don't get a point or something like that. We really spend like a month, like, get that eight hours of sleep. That's like one match of doing it. Yeah. So there's a behavioral psychology treaty that basically says if you measure a behavior, a person will double their performance there. So if you're measuring their sleep, but if you measure and report it, then you'll get more advantage than that, than that even. So one of the keys to, um, uh, our method is accountability and also it is

making it a game. You know, how many, how many, how many days can you get your workout? I usually say, instead of getting a workout tomorrow, I say I want 60 workouts in 12 weeks. I want 60 workouts in 12 weeks. You might get 72, you might get 58, but if you're aiming for 60 workouts in 12 weeks. I want 60 workouts in 12 weeks. You might get 72, you might get 58, but if you're aiming for 60 workouts in 12 weeks, you're really going to have a great step in making this a really built-in habit. And we need to get these things working as our routines, as our automatic go-tos instead of things that we lift ourselves with willpower to go do. So making exercise a habit is the number one key. It's the linchpin for our program.

It sounds like making it fun, gamifying, and it's still like you can work hard and play, not holding yourself like, damn, I got to, today this workout must be done exactly as early as I can. You feel this pressure from it. It sounds like what you're saying is like kind of creating a new default. Like some people are like, if I get bored and bored i'm at home my default is to work or uh but some people's default is to sit on the on the couch and watch it watch tv and eat some potato chips right uh and some people's default when they get bored i know people usually they're about 22 years old and uh they don't have

anything else to do their default is to go to the gym and just work out like three, four times a day. But you know, your default is, is what it is. And like changing your default is super difficult, but if you can make your default something really helpful, it's going to be a huge impact. Yeah. I think that's a good point. The automatic behavior. Yeah. And, and actually what you're saying is you're saying is that it can even be a comfort zone, is that I'm more comfortable doing some extra work at night at home than I am sitting there watching TV. And so they're kind of comfort zones.

And you really want to be constantly challenged to just kind of stay just a little uncomfortable. As soon as you set back into it, I think is one of the signs of relapse. So let's say people do make a great change in six weeks. How do you stay that way? Because the only thing worse than not making a great change is making a great change than have to give it back. And recidivism rates are so high. How do you stick with it? And one of the things I say watch out for is that you find a new comfort zone. So now I've lost 50 pounds. I'm not nearly as desperate or inspired as I was when I started. And you just kind of

sink there. That's my comfort zone. I'm not pushing myself towards another goal. I don't have a contest coming up or a competition or a challenge. And you'll just sink back into it. And like I said, is that those bad habits will wait on you forever. And as soon as you stop challenging yourself, they start coming back into your life. Is it from maybe getting too attached on the end numbers that you're chasing and not just the daily habits and the cultivating the daily rituals that carry you through even though you get what you want,

you still need to be pursuing something. It seems like when you have these behaviors in place, it takes care of that somewhat automatically. And make it a practice. Yeah, practice. Personal practice. What I say to people is that I say, let's set this goal.

Let me be 50 pounds lighter in six months. Okay, I said, let's set the goal. Let's look at what do I need to do differently between now and six months from now.

That's pretty aggressive. 50 pounds in six months? 50 pounds in six months is pretty aggressive. But it's very doable as well. Yeah. And that would be a good project for a year, too. Yeah. For a for a year if you do it right we don't want the fastest

way to lose weight right we want the best way and the best way is to hold that muscle or even build the muscle get good eating habits and let the change happen in a way that you know makes it a sustainable lifestyle um so that's a good point. We don't want fastest way. We want best way. But I say, what are you going to have to do differently between now and then to achieve that goal? And we look at what am I going to need to do differently? And then I say, okay, now forget about the goal and concentrate on what all I got to do differently. In 12 weeks, in one month, and then I say, let's bracket all the way up. What I got to do differently between now and this time tomorrow to achieve

the goal. And that, then I got them, you know, cause it's all about what, what can I do? The chopping wood and carrying water. Yeah.

Before enlightenment. What should I do after enlightenment? Chop wood and carry water. Keep doing it. So I say, you know, if you were going to get here and you're starting here, what do you got to do differently? And we talk about that and we, I say you know if you were going to get here and you're starting here

what do you got to do differently and we talk about that and we you know lay out a plan that's worked for other people and that makes sense to me and that's practical

and that's sustainable and that's safe and efficient and effective and I say well what do we got to do for a month

what do I got to do for a day and I say then forget about the goal forget about the number and focus on what do I got to do for a month? What do I do for a day? And I say, then forget about the goal. Forget about the number and focus on what do I need to practice between now and this time tomorrow to take a step in that direction. And that's a big difference than body for life. It's a big difference in bodybuilding. And it really speaks to what I know that you're thoughtful of

is making it a practice. And people say lifestyle, but lifestyle is almost a little topical. But if it's a practice or even what you said, a ritual. So I like the way you guys think. I'm surprised. Yeah. I looked at Jess, all the beard and the belly. You're smarter than you look.

I don't know what to say about that. I guess one thing I started thinking about now is like, what are the tenets you follow when you have these people step in the gym, actually when you take them to lift weights because it's so important. Do you have any guideposts you follow to keep sort of a scope around the transformation? Yeah. Well, every day you've got six steps to take. And like I said, you've got exercise, you've got your nutrition, not dieting, eating.

You've got your mindset work. You've got your motivation work, which means you look at your results, you find something to be positive about. And I say motivation comes from finding progress, not perfection. Every day I said find some progress, find something that you can be excited about. And if you don't train your mind to look for the good stuff, you'll automatically default into looking at the critical stuff. So there's exercise, nutrition, mindset, motivation, and then planning and preparing. Everybody can know this is a good workout. Everybody can think, I want to be at this goal. Everybody can say between this time tomorrow, between now and tomorrow, I'm going to do five things that are going to move me towards my goals. But if those people don't plan and prepare, none of them will cross the abyss because knowing and doing comes from planning and preparation. And that's a pretty simple fact.

Sometimes it's so simple that people overlook it. Do you know what preparation is, Doug's jam? It's true. It's true. Inside joke from a previous episode. No, we actually say very similar things regarding nutrition, where even if you know exactly what to do, if you don't have good food available and prepared when you happen to be hungry, then you will eat whatever happens to be around, because that's just what people do when they get hungry. So even if you know very well that you shouldn't be eating these Hot Pockets

or those potato chips or whatever, when you're hungry and they're there and there's no other good food around, then you know very well that you shouldn't be eating these Hot Pockets or those potato chips or whatever, like when you're hungry and they're there and there's no other good food around, then you will just do that. One time won't hurt. Yeah, even if beforehand you're like, I'm not going to do that. Then when the time comes, you're like, that looks pretty good, and then all of a sudden you just do it. So I totally agree. Being organized and prepared ahead of time is key.

The primate brain will win if you don't have preparation. Pandora's pizza and a cider. That's the way to go. Maybe some ice cream. And that's fine. A lot of people think that you've got to be way too meticulous and black and white and extreme with this. And at our center, we say the only thing we do extreme is moderation. So we have extreme moderation and nothing else is allowed.

And that is you've got to be realistic and practical. And one day a week or two days a week, I want you to go out and have that pizza, have a cheeseburger. It's what you do most of the time that's going to shape you, not what you do some of the time. And that's a big misconception. I'm exactly the same way you are. And that is that I can have great discipline, 23 hours and 50 minutes a day, and I can have a 10-minute or 8-minute lapse sometime between 11 o'clock at night and 1 in the morning, usually, and I can just blow through 800 calories of whatever is there, Pop-Tarts or cereal or ice cream. Doug is very disciplined, but if you want to see him lose it, just put a bag of Skittles. Okay, Skittles.

And if you just crack the bag open a little bit. Let that smell. Let that fake fruit smell fill the air. He's going to be all over the place. So what I say is you've got to set the table for your success. And that is that, you know, set your environment up to succeed. If you were going to stop smoking, what would you do with your cigarettes? You would get them the hell out of your house.

And if you have bad eating habits that are killing you like i so many people that come in to see me they don't realize how really honestly you're going to die from this yeah you can't be 50 pounds 80 pounds overweight and and live very long you what you're 100 fatal 100 of the time you're going to die from this from diabetes depression um heart attack is the number one way that that people are are lost um and it's and it's vitally important that you get this this stuff that's killing you out of your house and people recognize that when they make a change from cigarettes or drinking or an abuse of uh of a medicine or a drug um but food has got to be the same treated with the same regard and that is that if you're you need to lose 50 pounds or you want to get in the shape you were in 20 years ago, you've got to get the stuff that's killing you out of your house.

If it's an available option at all, you will eventually default to it. Once you're hungry enough, it's there, you'll eat it. It just can't be there is what you're saying. Yep. There's two things about everybody that comes to Transformation Camp that I know for sure. They're going to breathe and they're going to eat. And you can no sooner stop one than the other. So I see a lot of people,

they say, I got my diet all ready to go. And I go like this. They'll hold it. And they eventually open up and they suck in all the food available. You can't hold your breath and you can't stop eating. You just can't. So we know you're going to eat.

The question is, what are you going to eat? So we set things in your immediate environment that are going to nourish your success and give you better results faster from your workouts. Awesome. Thank you for joining us today. My pleasure. You guys keep doing the good work that you

are. I enjoy your podcast. I enjoy the spirit that you bring to this.. Oh, my pleasure. Appreciate it. Yeah, you guys keep doing the good work that you are. I enjoy your podcast. I enjoy the spirit that you bring to this. Well, thanks a lot. 177 shows, 178 shows. How many have you done? Something like that. I'm not going to get a count. We might be in the 80s at this point.

Go ahead and promise me you'll have me back. 186. 186, okay. I'd love to come back for your 200th show or your 210th show. We'd love to have you. Yeah, keep doing what you're doing, guys. You're making a difference. And we want everybody everywhere to find out about how awesome strength training is, how awesome fitness and being a part of a community of people that are

thinking about health inside and out. And that's what the world needs. The world needs it now more than ever. Seven out of 10 people, seven out of 10 doctors, police officers, moms, dads are suffering unnecessarily from preventable disease. And if we don't do something to make that change, now the future is going to be very, very ugly. So anybody that can inspire or instruct or encourage someone to get fit is part of the solution. You're just as important as any doctor because you're helping people get well before they get sick, and that's the solution. So congratulations, you guys.

Thanks for letting me have... Well, thanks for coming on, Bill. It's fantastic. Thanks for letting me have some time to talk. I'm going to go back out here and work on my physique, see if I can't get ready for the Mr. Fentis contest.

I saw a bicep blaster down there. You want to get some bicep extra going on? There you go. Where can people find you? Websites, Instagrams? Yeah, on Instagram, I'm BillPhillipsFitness. And on the old Facebook that, you know, I'm over 40, so we still use Facebook. And I'm BillPhillipsTransformation on Facebook and Transformation.com.

We've always got some fun success stories or methods to share. We give away free instruction and just encourage people to do something to get healthy. For God's sake, do something. I don't care what it is. Take action today. Yeah, just do something. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Thanks, guys. Cheers. Thanks, Bill.