Barbell Shrugged - Supporting Women in Combat Sports: Society Nine’s Lynn Le — Muscle Maven Radio Episode #23

Starting point is 00:00:00 Six days a week, Shrug Family, we are lighting it up. The brand new Shrug Collective is here. Jason Kalipa kicking it off with the Business of Fitness on Monday. Tuesday, Real Talk with Brian Fisher. Barbell Shrug, Doug Larson and myself, Anders Varner. Thursday, The Muscle Maven with Ashley Van Houten. Friday, Dr. Sean Pastuch makes his appearance with Active Life Radio. And then Sunday, your boy, Travis Mash, is killing it with the Barbell Life.

Starting point is 00:00:27 For everybody that is planning on getting to the CrossFit Games this year, we have a killer surprise. The One-Tone Challenge Live presented by FitAid. Caffeine and Kilos is going to be there. Whoop! FitAid. CrossFit Big Dane, the local favorite. Barrett Dans is going to be lifting.

Starting point is 00:00:41 Kenny Leverage is going to be hanging out. Katie Cork. Morgan King. We've got Olympians. Wes Kitts, the strongest guy in the country. Marcus Philly. Tons of cool names. Logan Algertridge is going to be there

Starting point is 00:00:50 lighting the place on fire. It's going to be amazing to watch all of this big weight get lifted in person. But if you cannot make it to the CrossFit Games, don't stress. On Thursday, August 1st, we're opening up the leaderboard for you to do this at your home gym to join in on the fun.

Starting point is 00:01:07 The leaderboard is going to be open Thursday, August 1st through Sunday, August 4th. The One Ton Challenge. You've got six lifts. Snatch, clean, jerk, squat, deadlift, and bench. In those four days, go lift as much weight in those six lifts as possible. Get them on the leaderboard and see how you stack up against the field. Go to live.onetonchallenge.com to register today. That leaderboard is going to go live on Thursday, August 1st.

Starting point is 00:01:37 You have until Sunday, August 4th to get your numbers in. It's going to be the most fun weightlifting competition you've ever been a part of happening in your own gym. So you don't even have to wear a singlet, but you could because they're cool. Let's get into the shows. Thank you for your time. We'll see you guys next week. Hey guys, welcome to Muscle Maven Radio.

Starting point is 00:01:57 You know who I am by now. And if you don't, I would like to kindly invite you to listen to any of the preceding 22 episodes, perhaps most notably episode 20 with Steph Goudreau, because I start out that episode by doing a bit of an intro to myself, like who I am and my fitness and health journey. And you can only imagine it gets super weird to talk about yourself into a microphone with no one there to talk back. So I kind of don't want to do that again. I mean, unless you really want

Starting point is 00:02:25 me to, I can tell you more stories about myself. You'll have to let me know, reach out and let me know. But otherwise, check out episode 20. It's a really good episode. And I do kind of give you a bit of a background into who the Muscle Maven is. So anyway, this is already shaping up to be a weird intro. But I hope that you're all doing well, that you're crushing summer, you're getting jacked if you're into that, you're hanging out outside, all the good things that come with warmer weather. And one of the things that's a big part of my summer is recommitting myself to a few months of strict boxing and jujitsu training.

Starting point is 00:02:59 I'm taking a bit of a breather from my regularly scheduled meathead workouts. So this episode is actually very timely, and I'm really pumped to introduce you to my guest and her company and her story. Her name is Lynn Lee and she started the company Society9, which is a woman's performance and lifestyle brand that makes high quality boxing gear, activewear, combat sports stuff specifically for women. And she was named to Forbes' 30 Under 30 in retail e-commerce for 2018. She's a badass. Her gloves are gorgeous. None of this like take a men's glove, shrink it down, turn it bright pink nonsense. Like the design, every element, every detail is meticulous and beautiful and thoughtful. And if there are any women listening to this who are into combat sports,

Starting point is 00:03:42 you know that this is a sorely needed market because men's and women's hands are different, just like our bodies are different. Like, have you ever, I know everybody out there has done this. All the women out there have done this. You buy or you wear like a unisex shirt, right? Or like a men's shirt. You buy it in a size small. You put it on. It doesn't fit like a woman's shirt.

Starting point is 00:04:01 It's all tight in the boobs. It's too high in the neck. Sleeves are all weird. You know, you get the point. It doesn't fit right a woman's shirt. It's all tight in the boobs. It's too high in the neck. Sleeves are all weird. You know, you get the point. It doesn't fit right because our bodies are different. And it turns out that our hands are very different too. So Lynn is addressing this need in a really positive, a really well-researched and beautiful way.

Starting point is 00:04:17 And I hope that any of you out there listening that are into these kind of sports, into boxing or Muay Thai, or you want to get into them, you give this a listen and share with your fellow awesome lady friends, because we talk about a lot of stuff. We talk about getting into the training and specific gear requirements for different sports and the differences between training for fun and training to compete and some of the sort of barriers that are maybe out there for people who aren't sure kind of which direction they want to go. And we talk about how deeply life altering it can be in a good way when you throw a good punch for the first time, especially as a woman, right? Because we maybe aren't as encouraged or put into these positions where we can really feel sort of really powerful and competent in that way. So we both kind of speak to that experience, which is really

Starting point is 00:05:05 fun. And we talk about women's history in the sport, diversity in the sport. Lynn talks to me a little bit about how she doesn't believe in the term work-life balance. So we get into all of that coming up. But I got to tell you, this episode would not be made possible if it weren't for my friends over at ButcherBox who sponsored the episode. And before you skip through this part, there's something new. So don't skip through it. It was actually a fun coincidence that I got to meet the team at ButcherBox last week when I was in Austin for this keto conference that I went to. And we got to chat a bit. I told them how much I love the stuff that they sent me. And it just reiterated to me what a cool company these guys are. They're really doing things the

Starting point is 00:05:42 right way. And offering freebies to my listeners makes them even cooler. So just a reminder, ButcherBox is a monthly meat subscription service. They offer grass fed, grass finished beef, free range organic chicken, heritage breed pork, wild Alaskan salmon. So all the best animals, all humanely raised, never fed antibiotics or hormones, and they deliver it directly to your door. So they have four sort of mixed boxes you can choose from, or you can make your own if like all you want, for example, is, I don't know, bacon and chicken thighs. Maybe I'm speaking for myself. Anyway, each box has about 10 pounds of meat, which is pretty decent, super high quality,

Starting point is 00:06:23 frozen at the peak of freshness, shipped directly to you. You have the best quality meat that you can get, and you don't have to leave your house. You don't have to do the work of picking it out. And it's cheaper for you because they're cutting out the middleman, like the grocery store, so you can get the better meat at a lower cost. Also, shipping is free nationwide. And also, they have a new offer for you guys, which is my dudes free burgers. Yes, you get six burgers in every box and their burgers are a hundred percent grass fed, grass finished, raised without antibiotics and hormones. Delicious. I've had them personally. These burgers are the best. I don't know what better incentive you need than free burgers

Starting point is 00:07:01 personally. And if you're going to eat meat, like most of us do, why not get the best quality at a great price without doing any work? Seems like a no-brainer to me. So if you agree, you can head to butcherbox.com forward slash maven, do your shopping, or just go to butcherbox.com, use the code maven at checkout, get your meat, get your free burgers. That's it. Easy. All right. Now onto my chat with the badass Lynn Lee, founder of Society9. All right, Lynn, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for being here. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk and now is time for us because we've never actually met in person, although I followed you for a little while. So I feel like I kind of know you in that creepy

Starting point is 00:07:42 social media way that people do. But now's the time for us to kind of get to know each other a little bit better. So first of all, where are you based? I think I know the answer to this, but tell us. Portland, Oregon. Our office and warehouse is based in Portland, Oregon. Okay. You're in Portland. And how long have you been there? I've personally lived here now for over 10 years. I went to college here. And then once I graduated, I've just worked here professionally. And then starting Society9 here too, it's basically given me some roots, more intense roots here now that I've gotten older and so forth. Okay, cool. Do you have any plans for the 4th of July? No, not yet. But my travel schedule for work is so crazy this summer that I'm like,

Starting point is 00:08:26 I, whatever I'm doing, I'm putting on a bathing suit because I have this amazing bathing suit that I'm obsessed with. And I'm like, I don't even know if I'm going to get to wear it at all this summer. So like, that's my only mission this July 4th is to baby try to be around some water. And if not some water, I'm still going to put on a bathing suit and some shorts and like feel awesome. Amazing. Okay. Yeah. That would be a tragedy if you don't get to wear an awesome bathing suit at all this summer. What is it? Tell me, tell me what kind of bathing suit it is. Bomb one piece that is just like, it's just, I don't know. It's hard to describe, but I, I just feel like the bomb in it. And women are allowed to feel like they're the bomb when they wear a bathing suit.

Starting point is 00:09:06 And so I just want to give myself a reason to wear it. Hell yeah. Yeah, you definitely do not need a reason. Although 4th of July, if it's a nice day out, is always a good reason. But you'll have to post a picture on Instagram so we can see the amazing bathing suit. It is kind of interesting, I feel like, how one pieces have come back in like a big way. I was never really like a one piece girl because I actually used to swim like not super competitively, but I was like a swimmer for a while. And those are always like the athletic like TYR one pieces.

Starting point is 00:09:35 And I always kind of thought of like one piece as business and like bikinis as as party. So I'm like getting my head around having like party one pieces again. You know, yeah. I mean, I've seen so many adorable one pieces lately and I'm, I don't know. I have mixed feelings about wearing two pieces. I mean, like every person, like I've gone through my fair share of body insecurities and stuff. And I just like, I love seeing the resurgence of the one piece, but like done in so many cool and cute and flattering, uh, different ways. And so, yeah, I was hard to get that, get that opportunity to just put it on. So, yeah, I appreciate that. And I do think like one pieces, whether you're kind of struggling with any kind of like self-esteem or confidence issues or not, which a lot of us do at one point in time

Starting point is 00:10:24 or another, but one pieces are just kind of us do at one point in time or another. But one pieces are just kind of more comfortable too, right? There's less things tied on and holding on for dear life in certain places. It's just like, this is going to stay where it's supposed to stay. And that's probably a good thing. Yeah. I'm a little heavier on the upper side. So yes, I feel that way with bikinis sometimes or two pieces. And my one piece is like, it's flattering, like it doesn't cover me up entirely, but it actually feels super supportive. So it's like, it's the best of both worlds. Yeah, best of both worlds. All right, I'm going to be waiting for pictorial evidence of this amazing bathing suit. Stay tuned.

Starting point is 00:11:03 All right, but let's get into who you are. Now that we're three minutes into talking about bathing suits, tell our listeners a little bit about you and your background, and then through that, we'll get to your company. Yeah. So my background, I guess my background, I'll start off on the sport side. I could go on and on about my personal journey, but I'm sure that'll get intermixed in with all the other anecdotes. So I would say my journey with fitness has been interesting. I mean, like through high school and middle school, I never really did that many sports,

Starting point is 00:11:39 but I was always athletically inclined. Like I played soccer in high school recreationally, but I was a theater geek, believe it or not. And in college, I ran recreationally just to stay active and in shape. But again, nothing too major. I did run my first marathon in college. But once I experienced that, I would describe it as I was athletically lost. I knew I liked being active. I didn't know what really struck my fancy. And that's when I, on a school trip, a university trip to Israel, I had discovered Krav Maga. And Krav Maga, for anyone who doesn't know, is an Israeli self-defense systems created by the Israeli defense forces. It's the best way for me to describe it is that it's an amalgamation of everything from elements of jujitsu to judo to kickboxing to wrestling and incorporate that with weapons disarming. And you have basically a hand-to-hand combat system.

Starting point is 00:12:41 And I learned about it when I was traveling there and I was super fascinated. I don't come from any martial arts background. It's not like I did karate or taekwondo or anything as a kid. And the curiosity for me was peaked enough that I just started Google searching and saw that there was a Krav Maga school here in Portland. And I went and threw my first punch. And I like to describe that first punch as a spiritual awakening. I'm 4'11". Currently, I'm 120 pounds. But generally speaking, I've always been like a pretty petite size. And I've never really understood what it meant to feel like physical power. I mean, like running sure makes you feel powerful, but like, so I know I have, my sister

Starting point is 00:13:25 is very passionate about CrossFit. You know, she would say the same thing about CrossFit and what it's done for her, you know? But I never, I never had that for myself or I didn't know where to find it. And then, so when I threw that first punch, I just felt, I mean, it's hard to describe. It was a really huge endorphin and adrenaline rush. And also it was like a spiritual rush too. And I also gravitate towards like teacher-student relationships. Like I'm always a constant learner. So I feed off of like positive affirmations, especially when it comes from that teacher-student dynamic. So for a teacher to be like, that punch was really good. I mean, that was like the thing I needed to hear that I wanted to keep on coming back and improving and getting that affirmation. Right. So, um,

Starting point is 00:14:10 I started training, I became super addicted. Essentially I was training six days a week. I fast tracked into getting my Brown belt, which is the highest practitioner belt that you can get within like three and a half years. Um, and I mean, to be honest, and that's a whole other story, but like, to be honest, I got kind of burned out after that big surprise. That's a lot. Yeah. Yeah. But I, but, but I loved what it did to me though, because it transformed me as a person. And, um, during that time I started teaching kickboxing, um, in the evenings and weekends. And it was during that, that I discovered what I describe as the problem, you know,

Starting point is 00:14:52 quote unquote, the problem. And, you know, my class was anywhere between 20 to 40 students at its peak point. Um, and half of my class was always at least half were women. And they would always come up to me and ask me, where can I find good gloves? Because all I can find are these. And they would show me, it's usually like the pink stuff that they find at Dick's Sporting Goods or Amazon or whatever. And they're like, I can't find anything else, but this is all that they're selling. And they're too big for me though, or they just feel really low quality, yada, yada. And the more I kept hearing the same feedback, the more I was like, why is that? That is kind of jacked up. And I was wearing gloves

Starting point is 00:15:31 that didn't fit me either. I mean, they were quote unquote unisex, but I just didn't really think about it. I just thought, oh, gloves are gloves. But then you think about the analogy with shoes, right? Would you wear running shoes that are two sizes too big to run? And you wouldn't. So why would you wear gloves that are two sizes too big to hit something really, really hard? So being in Portland though, I was really lucky because I'm surrounded by, you know, Nike world headquarters is here. Adidas North American headquarters is here. I have tons of friends who work in the industry. And I just started asking around for people who actually knew how to design product, who had spare time or who wanted to work on a passion

Starting point is 00:16:05 project with me. And I was like, I'm trying to design a women's boxing glove. Anyone, any takers? I've got ideas. I teach, but I'm also a practitioner. So I already have a focus group essentially that we can pull from. And I have I, I have the resource, you know, on that side. So this was around 2014. And I started, you know, incubating the idea with a couple of people who had volunteered their time, essentially. And fast forward, we got our first prototype, I was working a full time job, too. And I was working on society nine nights and weekends, essentially. And my goal was to have a sign of life within two years of me thinking about the idea. So I really started thinking about it in 2013,

Starting point is 00:16:49 really started designing in like 2014. We got our first prototype August, 2014. And that's when I quit my full-time job to really dedicate all my time into society. And I, I'd say it up, saved up a little bit of money, but like there was definitely an urgency factor. And I launched Society9 on Kickstarter in 2015. And we raised $62,000 in our campaign. And then we fulfilled all of our orders at the beginning of 2016 and haven't looked back since. So awesome. Okay, I have a bunch of questions from your intro,

Starting point is 00:17:30 but first of all, it's just, I think it's cool. I'm really resonating with a lot of your story. I feel like I have kind of, in some respects, a similar background in that I, it's in the way you put it as a way that I don't think I've ever articulated it before, but being like athletically inclined into sport and movement and fitness and athletics, but not necessarily being super involved in maybe team sports or traditional sports going up through school. I used to say, oh, I wasn't really athletic growing up. And I'm like, that's not really true. I just didn't play a ton of formal sports. I played a little bit of soccer like you, and I was a swimmer and I did gymnastics growing up. It was always more like individual sports maybe. And I think I felt like sometimes there's so much of an emphasis on team sports, which are great and very valuable, but there's

Starting point is 00:18:13 so much of an emphasis on that, that I kind of felt like if I wasn't doing that, that I wasn't really actually very athletic, which I didn't, I don't, I don't really agree with. And then I actually ran my first marathon in a university as well and ran another one. And now I actually ran my first marathon in university as well. And I ran another one. And now I'll never run another one ever again. I've run enough in my life now. But I learned from those experiences. And then I've transitioned through a lot of things from CrossFit to powerlifting. And now I'm into jujitsu and boxing.

Starting point is 00:18:37 So of course, your company and your story is very important and relevant to me personally. And that's why I'm so excited to talk to you. But OK, so a couple of questions that I have. So with the gloves, one of the things that I think you've mentioned before that I kind of never really thought about is, because of course I've had this experience too. I'm like, where do I get gloves?

Starting point is 00:18:57 They're either ugly pink or they like don't look like they're going to fit me or I don't know what size they are. But there's more to it when fitting a woman's hand than just the size, right? Yeah. So tell me about that. Yeah. So something that like a lot of people don't think about when, you know, when we, and I say we as in women, and that goes for self-identified women as well, is when you close your fist or close your hand and make a fist, when you see that fist inside a glove, like a standard unisex glove, our knuckles sit.

Starting point is 00:19:35 Excellent. We are not editing that out. That's perfect. I'm moving and can't speak. When your fist sits inside of a unisex glove, our knuckles actually sit much more shallow than a male hand. And if you think about it, the way that the foam is constructed in most unisex gloves, like the thickest part, which is meant to support your knuckles, right? Or protect your knuckles. It sits further up in the glove, like further up towards where like the finger pocket is. And that's an example of a very small shift that we made noticing that a lot of the support

Starting point is 00:20:16 that women needed were sitting further back on the knuckle area. So that's like one example. Another example is proportionally speaking, our hands are much more slender than men's. I mean, even if fingers are long or whatever, typically they're way more slender than a male hand. And that has to do with everything from bone density all the way to literal like width. And so for that as well, we had to figure out okay proportionally speaking where are the support places that are needed from like the thumb area to the pinky so that women could actually get a really good grip inside the glove because you have to remember when you're throwing a fist at a heavy bag a mitt whatever you are throwing a bunch of tiny bones at high speed, high impact, really hard at something.

Starting point is 00:21:06 And to protect all those bones, you want to be able to close your fist because your greatest natural defense system actually is being able to close your fist because that's essentially a natural shock absorber, right? So if women can't close their fist tightly and have a good grip inside of a glove, they're basically throwing that bag of bones really hard at the bag or the heavy bag or whatever, without being able to have additional shock absorption. Hand wrap can only go so far, but there's no point in having a hand wrap protect you if you're not able to actually, you know, close your fist and grip your fist. So that was

Starting point is 00:21:43 another observation that we did or another observation that we had when we had our focus group, um, in the early days. Um, and we still make fit adjustments as we collect customer feedback. You know, if there's patterns that we see in the feedback that we get in returns and exchanges, every new production order that we make of gloves, if there's a pattern that is consistent enough, we'll actually make the change. So, you know, every year that we, um, that we release a, buy a boxing glove, there's definitely changes. Like we'll get customers who'll be like, I bought your gloves in 2016, or I was an original Kickstarter backer and I recently bought a new pair and they feel completely different. Why is that? And we'll explain like, it's because we actually track,

Starting point is 00:22:21 we have this giant database spreadsheet where we track patterns and we highlight things in different colors based on the repetitiveness of a certain type of feedback that we get. And when we see that it's coming up enough, we actually redesign that portion or that part entirely. Wow. That is so interesting. I had no idea. I really just assumed it was like, okay, our hands are smaller and also daintier. Like that's my way of picking up what you articulated better in terms of like, we just seems like we have less sort of like mass or thickness in our hands oftentimes. How do you guys actually study that? Like that you were saying, you know, when we make a fist and where our knuckles are placed and it's shallower, like how are you guys able to actually quantify that? Yeah. So we, um, so a couple of things,

Starting point is 00:23:08 one is literally like going straight to the library and literally looking up like biology books and understanding, excuse me, understanding all the different digits in a hand, the digits being like the knuckle points, um, all of the different joints in the fingers and the hands to really understand like the impact points and where support is needed. So that's just like without even entering focus group territory, that's just trying to understand like the hand portion, right? And then on separately on the focus group side, we in the early days, we had a couple hundred women, very diverse in body size, skill set, because that's the other thing, right? I didn't want to have only professional fighters or only amateur fighters or, you know, people who train competitively. I wanted to have

Starting point is 00:23:56 a mix. I wanted to have fitness moms, retirees, young women. I wanted to have people that fit the whole spectrum of experience because how they experience pain or, you know, quality training equipment or what their needs are. There's oftentimes, there's might be some differences in preference, but more often than not, like the needs are very similar across the board. But I wanted that diversity of perspective, right? So in the early days, we had at least several hundred women from not just the Oregon, you know, MMA and boxing scene, but, you know, I would ask around for friends of friends who were in like the LA Orange County scene, the Vegas scene. And we would send out surveys, we would ask questions to really understand fit preferences. We would ask questions to really understand fit preferences.

Starting point is 00:24:48 We would ask about the things that they liked about certain competitors' products, but things that they wish that they had. That was both on a quantifying level, numbers-wise of this doesn't fit, or things that are more – I can't think of the word. I didn't drink coffee today. How could you not have had a coffee yet today? I've been actually weaning myself off of coffee. But there's the quantitative piece and then the qualitative piece. And the quantitative piece to me is like all of the, um, the, the competitive research, right? Like, what do you like, what do you like that's out there right now? What are you

Starting point is 00:25:30 currently training that you wish had more of X, Y, and Z. And then there's the quantitative data, which is like actually measuring people's hands. So like understanding, um, the patterns between height, weight, and hand measurement. So understanding proportionality and patterns in that way too. So understanding that between women who are, you know, four foot nine, let's say up to five foot three, typically it's fair to expect that the wrist, the distance between their wrist up to the very top of their middle finger will largely be within this range, for instance. And then women who are 5'4 to 5'8 or so is going to be this range. And that's actually how we devised our size guide for the Bioboxing World,

Starting point is 00:26:18 which is our most popular product. So those are some instances by which we take that research and try to formulate it in such a way that's digestible for the consumer. Because that's the other thing is that like we're not here to try to confuse people either. We're also here to try to say like our team thinks about these things and we do our best and we know it's kind of like a Goldilocks problem. I describe it as a Goldilocks problem.

Starting point is 00:26:42 Like some people will buy our gloves and they're like, I love your gloves so much, or I love your brand so much, but they just don't fit me here and here and here's why. And then they're super bummed. And of course, I hate that feeling of like, I want to make sure that the gloves feel good for everyone. But for me, for instance, there are certain shoe brands that I can't wear just because my feet are simply too small, even though they're selling it as a size six, right? Or whatever. So I think that is still something that hits me because of course I want to serve everyone and make everyone happy. But I think that's why we track that feedback so diligently because there is such thing as patterns. And when we identify those patterns, we do our best to make those changes happen in

Starting point is 00:27:24 real time. That's awesome. I mean, I definitely think you guys are hitting a sweet spot, as you mentioned, between like, we're just going to create a unisex like sheath that you put on your hand and you hope for the best. And then the other side is providing so much information or maybe so much detail that the average consumer like me who just wants some nice, pretty gloves are going to fit well. I'm like, I don't understand what any of this stuff means, but it's good. You're showing that you are doing your due diligence and that you care and that you're responding, like you said, to feedback and changes and differences. And I think that that's important because, yeah, we need it. We've been an underserved group in this world for a very long time.

Starting point is 00:28:02 So what types of gloves do you offer? Like, do you do like boxing, MMA, like Muay Thai, like all the different kind of, um, martial arts? So we, we used to have, we have a, we have our boxing glove and then we have, um, we used to have an MMA glove and we stopped producing the MMA glove mainly because we saw much greater demand on the boxing glove side. And to invest our resources appropriately, we decided to really double down on making our boxing glove something that is really loved and really popular and can compete against the rest.

Starting point is 00:28:36 And our glove, our Baya, so we have three different types of gloves. One is the essential straining glove, and then we have the Baya boxing glove. Baya is the Greek goddess of force and strength. So that's where the name inspiration comes from. And then we have our Icon Lace-Up. What is on the website for the Lace-Up Boxing Glove is going to change completely. We're completely re-engineering it. So I'm really excited for that. It won't look similar at all. It will look completely different.

Starting point is 00:29:11 The Essentials Training Glove is a great glove for people who are just starting out. We've learned from our customer base that for a lot of people who are just starting to box for the first time and they don't know how to wrap their hands, they like wearing things like quick wraps and gel wraps. And to be totally honest, as a former kickboxing instructor, I tend to advise against using those because again, going back to my statement about your hand being a bag of little tiny bones, quick wraps and things like that don't adequately protect all of those little bones. It's kind of like when you wrap your ankle, right? You want to be able to provide all the support that those little bones need. And then when you punch that hand wrap that's, you know, wrapped around your hand, it actually contracts. And that's a good thing.

Starting point is 00:29:51 You want it to contract, um, because it's still for the most part, because you are wrapping it like pretty tightly. It's staying in place, which again, keeps those bones well protected, those little bones well protected, but it contracts, which allows your hand to, um, to breathe a little with every impact. Right. Um, and gel hand wraps and quick wraps don't do that because there's, there's not such thing as like one size fits all with wraps. I mean, wraps are custom and they have been for as long as boxing has been around for a reason, you know, they're not a fancy

Starting point is 00:30:25 product, but it works because it's very simple science. Again, just going back to an ankle wrap. Our essential training glove though was created because we had customers who wanted to wear those, which we can't control, but they wanted a glove that could accommodate that fit a little bit better. We designed a different cavity that could still accommodate, excuse me, accommodate, you know, more slender proportional, slenderly proportional hand to a women's fit. So it's still our own fit, but it accommodates, you know, quick wrap and gel wrap wears a little bit better. And then our bioboxing glove is our most popular product. That glove, I've seen people wear quick wraps in those and that's fine, we can't control that.

Starting point is 00:31:08 But our bio boxing glove is designed to be worn with traditional hand wraps. I would describe it as a hybrid between a Muay Thai glove and a boxing glove. Most boxing gloves go a lot further up on the forearm and Muay Thai gloves do not. They sit more shallow. I would say ours kind of sits like

Starting point is 00:31:26 in the middle. So I wouldn't say that it's a true shorty, like a Muay Thai wrist glove or not wrist glove. Wow. Maybe I should go back to coffee. Well, we'll talk about that next because I have some thoughts for you if you're trying to wean yourself from caffeine. But yeah. Whatever. But yeah, our glove, I would say from a length standpoint, it sits probably in between a boxing glove length and a traditional Muay Thai length. So I've seen our glove be worn for both instances. I've seen people, I've seen Clarissa Shields, who's a two-time Olympic gold medalist and quite honestly, the undisputed, like, half-ant, best female fighter in the world across all combat sports. Like, she wears our gloves, and I've seen her wear them in sparring, you know, and she hits probably harder than anyone else I

Starting point is 00:32:14 know. But then I also see people who wear them just for fitness classes, like boxing fitness classes. And so the glove itself is perfectly suitable for both instances. It really just comes down to what coaches will allow in sparring because all coaches typically have their own sort of like approval process of if they feel like a glove is comfortable, if they're comfortable with a particular glove being used for sparring. And that can be both subjective as well as just a preference. Like some coaches really swear by one particular type of glove or one brand. And if they require all of their members to have to wear that glove, then, then I can't really control that, you know, but, um, but the, our bio boxing glove is by far like our most popular glove. Okay. Can you walk us through again? And I should know

Starting point is 00:33:02 this, but just for, let's just pretend it's for the listeners and not for me, but can you walk us through again, and I should know this, but let's just pretend it's for the listeners and not for me. But can you walk us through again the different sizes, like the 12, 14, 16 ounce, and when and why you would choose the different weights? Yeah. So, again, typically preferential, but also oftentimes dictated by the coach or the gym owner. The way that we design our 12, 14 and 16 ounce, the gloves do get bigger in size as a proportion to weight. And the 12 ounces are smallest size, 16 ounces are biggest size. 14 is our most popular just because it sits kind of perfectly in the middle. So there's a little bit more accommodation for people who felt like 12 ounces too tight or 16 ounces too big. The 12 ounce and 14 ounce sizes typically are worn in Muay Thai.

Starting point is 00:33:51 Sometimes 16 ounces worn, but 16 ounces is a size that's much more common in boxing, mainly because of the weight used in sparring is often 16 ounce. I personally train in 12s and 14s all the time. If I am sparring though, I will wear our 16s just as a requirement for the coach. But general training purposes, 12s and 14s are what I personally wear. I would say our most popular size, like I said, is the 14 ounce. And that's mostly because it is so accommodating across people of all different hand sizes, but also different training purposes. I like to interchange my sizes too, just for longevity. So I'll wear 12 ounces for training on the bag, hitting mitts, working on speed.

Starting point is 00:34:38 And then with sparring, I'll wear 16 ounce. So it really just depends on the purpose and then the requirements of the gym or the coach or owner. So is the concept though, that like the heavier one is more padding, but it also allows you to hit harder versus like a lighter one that maybe you can move a little bit faster, but it's a little bit more delicate. Like what's the thought there? Yeah, I mean, there's certainly an impetus for that, right? So and 14-ounce gloves, a lot of people will wear the lighter weight gloves for speed work. Speed work means a million different things. Speed work can mean on the mitts, on's certainly more resistance. Yes, there's more padding. And that's usually why oftentimes coaches will require a 16-ounce glove, just for that simple premise alone. So yeah. Okay. Another thing that I love about your gloves, and I don't have a pair yet, so obviously we're going to have to rectify that really soon. But one of the things that

Starting point is 00:35:41 I loved about yours is the design. And this is kind of counterintuitive because I also rail against the, like, I don't know, I'm using air quotes here, feminization of like women's versions of things. Like forever, I've been pissed that when I want to buy like sneakers, I have to buy like a version of pink or purple. And there's nothing wrong with those colors. It's just that when you look at the wall of dude sneakers and the wall of girl sneakers, it's like still laid out like pink and blue, like we're toddlers and it's ridiculous. And it's even worse with, I think, gear that is not, it's still sort of smaller and more niche for women, right? Like there aren't as many women

Starting point is 00:36:19 maybe buying some of these products as there are men. So a lot of these companies or people and the minds behind it, maybe male minds who are like, okay, well, let's just differentiate this quickly, make them a little bit smaller, make them pink. That'll make everybody happy, which is not the case. But the design of your gloves is not only beautiful, but it's like really kind of like sophisticated. And like, it's just really, really attractive. And I think you've managed to really hit this line where there's there. I mean, this is maybe my just personal opinion, but it's like almost like you can tell there's like a woman's eye to the design, but it's not overtly feminine or girly.

Starting point is 00:36:56 It's just beautiful. So can you talk a little bit about the design process? Yeah, so our gloves actually have like a whole, a whole story behind them in terms of like the, the branding, the imagery, the, the graphic, the name. So, I mean, the, you know, by a boxing glove by, as I mentioned, is a Greek goddess of force and strength. So, um, that I felt like that spirit, that energy was a really great tribute to all women in terms of how we possess that warrior energy. So I thought the name itself was suitable for our first product to be that. The graphic is a shattered glass print. And the inspiration behind it was a couple of things. One is, you know, we're based in Portland, Oregon, and the state motto for Oregon is she flies on her own wings. to pay homage to that in some way. So if you hold the gloves side by side, like the left glove and the right glove,

Starting point is 00:38:07 it looks like wings, right? But it also is based on the idea of breaking barriers as well, which is why it's called a shattered glass print because we are shattering glass, we are breaking barriers. And I wanted the imagery to be both symbolic, but not so literal. So a lot of people actually will look at the gloves and they say, oh, that's a really cool looking glove or a beautiful glove or whatever. But they don't actually register that it's meant to be shattered glass or look like wings or whatever. Like I kind

Starting point is 00:38:39 of like, it was intentional that I wanted it designed so ambiguously that people could just interpret it as they will. You know what I mean? And people can make their own meaning out of it. But for us, like that was actually the design inspiration behind the shatterglass print. And then our logo, our icon logo, even that has symbolism and meaning too. So the logo is four different shapes, as you can see. There's an upward triangle and a downward triangle. In ancient iconography, the upward triangle represents male and the downward triangle represents female. And then the two quadrilaterals are broken from a chevron symbol, if you're familiar with what a chevron is. And chevrons were actually the symbol for Sparta, like they used to be on the shields for Spartan soldiers. So the icon logo

Starting point is 00:39:36 is supposed to represent duality between male and female fighting spirit. Um, and then society nine, the name itself, um, pays homage to title nine, which was, is a critical part of not just American history, but specifically women's sports history, because without title nine, there wouldn't have been a pathway for female sport or professional sports, female professional sports period. Um, because by making in educational systems where Title IX was enacted to be enforced, Title IX enabled not only equality in educational systems, but then also all programming and activities in the educational system. So that meant sports. So what that did was, you know, these very talented athletes, women athletes, where did they go after they were done? And so it created a filter or a pathway by which, you know, a professional sports

Starting point is 00:40:33 system for women could exist. And so a lot of what we, we meaning our current generation, mine, yours, this time that we're living in, like we owe, we owe kind of everything to Title IX, at least in terms of American, you know, American female sports history, like we owe everything to Title IX. So Society 9, the name, speaks to our duty to know our roots, to honor our roots, but also to carry that fight forward so that, you know, future generations of women can remember that, you know, that all of this, us being able to pursue wouldn't exist if it wasn't for that. I love that so much. I love the branding even more now. I always loved it. But as you're describing this to me, I'm like, I'm getting so fired up. I'm like, that is so badass. Everything about that is so thoughtful. And it just, it's just badass. I love it. That's,

Starting point is 00:41:31 that's amazing. Have you, have you ever competed in any of the martial arts or boxing or Muay Thai or anything like that? Well, I've thought about, you know, competing and like doing like an amateur fight for boxing sometime in my life. But, um, but no, I've never competed. Um, I, I would say that personally, like, at least as of right now in my life, I don't have the desire, but also I, I have friends who are professional fighters. I definitely, I don't know what it takes because I haven't lived through it, but I kind of like live through them. Right. And I know what it takes and it takes a certain type of person. It takes a certain type of drive. It takes a certain type of discipline and desire to want to do it. And, and not only that, but it takes a village, like, you know, you've got coaching staff, teammates, all that. I mean, it's such a village effort and I would never, ever, ever want to embark on any

Starting point is 00:42:25 competition unless I knew that like my heart was with all of them, you know? Um, because it's so, I mean, down to the weight cut, it's like, it's so not just about you. It's actually about everybody. Um, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I agree with you as a, as just a fan of martial arts and a fan of boxing and MMA. And I, I like obsessively watch all this stuff, I'm literally like, I have to what you just said, like the, just this kind of perfect storm of like incredible discipline and drive and mental resilience and strength and just persistence. And it's just such a, it's such a crazy intense sport. And like you mentioned the Spartans, it's like this modern day kind of, you know, person to person sort of warfare that you just don't see as much anymore. And so we're just all so fascinated watching it. But I know that you also have some like ambassadors and you work with some fighters too, right?

Starting point is 00:43:35 Is that like another way that you kind of interact with the community? Yeah, I mean, we're really fortunate that body type, ethnically, as well as skill set. But I think that there was a misunderstanding for a long time, and I think it's improving, but I think there's still a long ways to go. I think there's a misunderstanding that if you train in boxing or train in Muay Thai, train in any form of MMA, that you have to be a competitor, that in order for you to be legitimate in any of these spaces, you have to have a competitor's heart. And I've seen that negatively affect women feeling like they have access to the sport. So to put it another way, it's not just intimidation. Because I wouldn't describe it necessarily as intimidation. But there's this perception that, oh, well, if I

Starting point is 00:44:51 don't, if I don't have an interest in competing, then what's the point? No, it's not even what's the point. It's like, oh, I guess I can't train here. Like, yeah, I like I don't belong, you know? And so I think, I hope, I feel like the industry is changing where on the fitness industry side, I do feel like because boxing fitness has grown a lot, much to the dismay of some people who disagree with it or think that it's, you know, sexifying or glorifying the sport or whatever. I see both sides. You know, on the one hand, like, yes, I don't want to see people freaking punching like, you know, they're having, they're in a bar fight and they're not being corrected on their form.

Starting point is 00:45:34 Because yes, you can risk injury. On the flip side, I think it's really important to create these access points for people to feel physically empowered. And then ultimately, mentally and emotionally and spiritually empowered as well. Because like for me, I know that's what, you know, Krav Maga and now, you know, boxing Muay Thai, I know what these things have done for me. And I want to see there be a little bit more open-mindedness around what it means to really

Starting point is 00:46:01 change people's lives through this sport, you know, and it's not just through competing. Although competing is a very admirable and inspirational path, you know, people can take. It's I think it's I think it's I think it's unfortunate and it does a disservice to the sport's future in general by creating that, that barrier to entry. It's almost like a, you know, the industry was like imposing its own barrier on itself by saying, Oh, well, if you don't want to compete, like you're not legit. It's like, what if I'm just here for my own personal journey? It's like, it's like the friends that I have who are like recovering addicts who, you know, their new addiction is like the gym, you know, because they're, you know, however many days, months, years sober, and they found a new addiction and it makes them feel incredible. You know, who am I to judge them and say, oh, you don't belong here because of any

Starting point is 00:46:55 number of reasons. That's the same principle. You know what I mean? And so usually when I use that analogy, it kind of like wakes people up to realize like, oh yeah, like, I guess you're right. It's like, well, yeah, just let people be human. Let people come and discover and own their bodies, whatever that means. And if they decide to be a competitor, fucking awesome. But don't set that expectation because what it does is it keeps the sport and the activity and the community really small. And if you want the industry to be taken seriously or the sport to

Starting point is 00:47:25 be taken seriously or adopted by greater people, you have to find a balance of respect there. I think that's such an important conversation to have because I think that that concept that you're talking about, it does exist in other sports too, to a much lesser extent. But like when you think about like CrossFit, right? And people get into CrossFit and they're super excited and everybody's like, okay, when's your next competition? Or when are you going to compete? And, you know, but it's not, it's not quite the same level, but I know I've kind of experienced this too. I think with, with anyone getting into combat sports, men or women, but maybe more specifically women, because we have been in some ways discouraged from approaching those kinds of sports. And then also we're entering

Starting point is 00:48:05 gyms where we don't see a lot of women in some cases. So we've got that first level of intimidation where it's like we're going into a training for a combat sport. So there's just like that basic human instinct to be a little bit intimidated by that. Then you walk into a gym where maybe it's men or maybe it's a more competitive atmosphere and that's not something that you're into. And then on top of that, you've got what you're just a gym where maybe it's men or maybe it's a more competitive atmosphere and that's not something that you're into. And then on top of that, you've got what you're just talking about where people are like, well, what's the end game? There has to be an end game and that end game should be competition.

Starting point is 00:48:32 And I can relate to that too because this is something that I've kind of dabbled with on and off. And I'm not even sure, like you said, I'm not ruling out the idea of maybe competing at a very amateur local level for fun. But if I don't ever do that, I don't want to think of my time training as like, less valuable, or like it's aimless, because it's not because I'm learning a skill, I'm learning about my body, I'm becoming stronger, I'm gaining so much from that. And yeah, I think that there should be equal respect for, for both sides of that. And I also think it goes back to something you touched on earlier in the conversation

Starting point is 00:49:07 that I really thought was important and I wanted to highlight is when you sort of, you're saying like your first punch was kind of like the spiritual awakening because you felt a sort of power that maybe you haven't felt before in other sports. And as a small woman, maybe that isn't, again, encouraged to feel power in that sort of like visceral way. And I can really, again, relate to that. And I think that there's a strong connection for everyone between power and competence at something. into competing. But when you learn how to throw a punch properly, versus you're just like you said, kind of like drunken barroom brawl, like slapping your hands around, there is a very visceral, strong, powerful feeling that comes from that. And it doesn't have to go any further than your training in the gym. But that can translate into feeling powerful and feeling competent in so many other areas of life. And that has such a

Starting point is 00:50:06 beneficial kind of like steamroll effect that I think we need to spend more time and encourage that just as much as we'd encourage somebody to compete. Yeah, no, exactly. I just, you have to leave room for people to uncover that passion organically, you know? And so for, and I say people, people can be anyone from coaches to gym owners, to the general community, to social media. I mean, just like we as a community, like I consider society nine, obviously now a part of this just greater community. Like we have to think about how we're communicating the sport to people. And I think that's why we have such a strong relationship with our customers is that they don't feel like we're shoving down their throats that they have to be anything other than like,

Starting point is 00:50:54 go, go discover this for yourself. You know, like go, we just want to be here to support you. Whatever that journey looks like, like we're here for you. No judgment, no questions. We're just here for you. You have questions, you need recommendations, we're here for you, you know? And that's the no strings attached culture by which we encourage. I treat my team even that way when it comes to just different things related to everything from doctor's appointments to working remotely or whatever.

Starting point is 00:51:22 Like as long as you're communicating honestly, and letting me know what your needs are, we can find a happy medium. And so like with customers, like, that's kind of how I want to treat them too, is like, I'm here to meet you where you are. So if you're throwing up for the first time, we're here for you. If you're competing, and you're, you want to see us launch headgear or shin guards, or you want to see more stuff, well, great, we're working on that, which we actually are like Like we're launching shoes this year. We're launching headgear shin guards. Um, we're launching more active wear next year, including extended sizing. So we'll go up right now. We're going to try to go up to four X. Um, we might feasibly be able to go up to five X, but like those things are things that we take seriously. Those requests we take really seriously when it comes to quote unquote, serving the community.

Starting point is 00:52:08 Um, and you know, I, I, I go to bed at night feeling good knowing that like, even though we haven't done everything perfectly and that there's still more work to do, that my team is walking that path earnestly. And that's about as much as human beings, you know, that's about as much as we can reasonably both commit to and feel good about knowing that we're doing. Mm hmm. Okay, so you answered my next question, which was new, like products or launches or things coming out to expand the offering. But you mentioned earlier in the call that you're crazy busy with sort of work travel this summer. But what do you what do you have going on? For work traveling? summer, but what do you, what do you have going on? For work travel? Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:52:46 Um, traveling overseas to meet with some of our vendors in person because we have a big holiday shipment arriving. Um, and then going to two different conferences, one of which like I'm speaking at and then the other one I'm not speaking at, but it's, um, it's a little bit more of an intimate conference. So I just, I kind of have to get my head straight on that. I'm gone for like the last half of July, basically for it. And then I'll be back in August, but I've got, I've already like, as of today, there's a couple of possible travel opportunities in August too. I wouldn't say opportunity, but rather just requirements. Like I might need to leave in August again. So it's this,

Starting point is 00:53:26 it's funny because the last couple of weeks in June, like I've just been trying to soak in every bit of sun and time at home that I can, because like, you know, you take those things for granted when your schedule changes like that, like, or when you're, when your lifestyle and what your work requires of you, like when it changes like that, like you start taking, you start appreciating the little things that you took for granted before, like just stewing at home, sleeping in your own bed, you know, like I, it's hard sometimes when I am at home and I've got friends who are like, we need to go out, we need to do this, do that. I'm like, yes, I would love to do that because I haven't seen you in forever. But also can we like, can we also just cook at my place? Can we be, can we be in bed by 11 PM please? Yeah. You know, I, I love taking baths, you know,

Starting point is 00:54:11 baths are like my jam. Uh, that's like my meditation. Some people have yoga for me. Like I put on a hot bath and I, I sit and I meditate in that bath for, you know, a good hour or two. And that's been really good for me too, personally. And, um, it's, yeah, you know, a good hour or two. And that's been really good for me, too, personally. And it's, yeah, it's, it's really difficult when people ask about work life balance. It's like, I don't really believe in that kind of a statement. I think it's just about making deliberate decisions. Because it's really difficult to get in a flow, a consistent enough flow state for, you know, when you own a small business, but then like, you have to just be really deliberate and intentional with the decisions you make around

Starting point is 00:54:50 that. What's the, uh, what's the conference that you're speaking at? Um, it's the union for North American, uh, Vietnamese students. So I'm Vietnamese, uh, American. I was born, right. Born and raised in the United States, but, um, but I'm the keynote speaker, which is really exciting. That's very cool. It's in Vancouver, BC, and it's going to be a ton of college age, North American, Vietnamese college students. So I'm really excited for that opportunity, actually. It means a lot to me personally, obviously, as someone who's Vietnamese American, but also like wishing that I had, you know, Vietnamese role models my age that I could have looked up to when I was in college. Or at least there's plenty of them, but like just being able to have the opportunity to

Starting point is 00:55:41 go to such a conference like this is what I mean. Like, I think it's a really unique opportunity. And so I was really honored that they asked me to speak this year. And then the other one is one that's specifically for e-commerce direct-to-consumer businesses. It's a really small conference. It's invite only. It's like maybe 600 people. But I'm pretty excited for that one too, just because it's a lot of industry. A lot of industry knowledge is going to float around there.

Starting point is 00:56:12 So yeah, that's in New York. So I'm flying from Canada to New York. When are you going to be in New York? Because that's where I am. We can meet up and do some punching. End of July. Okay. Yeah. We'll have to touch we'll have to touch base off offline and maybe schedule some things that could be super fun. Um, what's your, what's your like workout fitness, um, health kind of schedule or practice as a super busy business owner? Um, it's again, going back to my statement about deliberate decisions like I I work out Saturdays and Sundays for sure I definitely try because that's I have a pretty hard and fast no email rule on Saturdays

Starting point is 00:56:52 and Sundays except for Sunday night I will check if there's a lot of things in the air of what right now there is it also helps me ease what I call the Sunday scaries so yep I will I will read my emails just to sort of mentally prepare for the week, but I won't like work, work. Um, if I work, it will be like a lot of creative work. So non-computer email, like all that kind of stuff over the weekend. Um, but I'll for sure go to the gyms, go to the gym on the weekends. Um, and then I try to stick to like a Monday, Wednesday, Friday routine, anywhere between 30 to 60 minutes. That's the other thing I've been trying to train myself out of because

Starting point is 00:57:31 like, I would describe myself as like a recovering gym rat. Like, you know, I'm so used to being in the gym for at least an hour historically, you know, in my early to mid twenties. And, you know, I started society when I was 26. So I, obviously my training, quote unquote, training regimen has changed a lot since, and I can't do that anymore. Like I just can't like time-wise, I literally can't, I mean, between showering and eating and transport, like I don't have time. So trying to retrain myself to thinking like, okay, being active and treating your body well and feeling good, working out, whatever, it doesn't have to be this, um, it can be efficient and still just as powerful. And so trying to switch my mind in that way so that I can still get my workout in and not feel defeated that, oh, I can't

Starting point is 00:58:22 dedicate as much time like I used to, you know what I mean? Um, and then also changing up my diet to also feel better. Like I don't, I wouldn't, I don't prescribe to anything. I'm not, I just, I, I come from a very, very deep food culture. I mean, Vietnamese food culture is so emotional and so meditative and, um, there's too much meaning behind a lot of things that I could never just, I could never prescribe to any particular diet. But I do generally though on a regular basis don't eat that much meat. That's something that is new and something that's actually been really, really good for my body.

Starting point is 00:58:57 So I don't really eat meat very much anymore. I do a lot of veggies, more than I used to. I've been pickling a lot. I'm really into pickles lately. Pickled everything. Pickled. What's my favorite? Pickled turnip and pickled onions. Oh, yeah. Mine's pickled green beans. Pickled green beans. I make different Korean pickles too. And yeah, so I've just been really into pickles. Um, but I allow myself to eat things like rice or whatever, you know, I mean like DNA wise, my people have been eating rice for centuries, you know, it's just about portion control. So like, I don't, I think that's

Starting point is 00:59:36 another reason why, like, I don't like pick any diet. I just pick what feels good for my body. And, um, what I've got right now feels actually really really good so um it's actually the healthiest I've felt probably in the I would definitely say the last two years I mean like I said I started society 9 months 26 but like I would say in the last two years for for sure I like I I went through a really unhealthy patch um had a mild eating disorder uh but then also like over eight for one period, like it's just, it was all over the place. And then I would say for the last six months, six to nine months, you know, I've been in such a good place. Um, both like my body comfortable, my skin,

Starting point is 01:00:16 but also just like actually being happy about the things that I eat and legitimately not feeling like I'm restricting anything. Yeah. I mean, that is an epic journey in itself, whether you try to subscribe to any particular diet or not. First of all, it's always evolving based on your body and your challenges and what you're going through and what your, I don't know, like your fitness goals are and all of these things. But it's also about the balance between enjoying your life and feeling the best that you possibly can. And those things aren't always synergistic. You know what I mean? You want to be able to enjoy and be guilt-free about the food you eat and know that it's nourishing you, but you also want to be able to chill out and not care so much if you eat some junk with your friends sometimes. And these

Starting point is 01:00:59 things, when you say them out loud, it's like, well, this doesn't really sound like rocket science, but it's really, really hard for people to find a balance that works for them and makes them feel good and also helps you enjoy your life. It's not an easy process. And that's why so many of us are literally still working on it, right? It's like a constant work in progress, I suppose, just like your physical fitness journeys are too. But OK, so going back to the coffee thing,

Starting point is 01:01:25 do you drink, do you, do you, um, did you switch it out maybe for tea or matcha? Are you into that? Are you just trying to go cold Turkey, no caffeine? No, I'm not cold Turkey, no caffeine, but I definitely am drinking way more tea. Um, have you ever tried, um, I know there's actually some products out there that have this combined, but then you can also do it separately. But if you're having your caffeine or if you want to treat yourself to some coffee, adding L-theanine to it, which is actually a compound that's found in a lot of tea naturally, but have you ever tried that? Okay. So it's, I can, again, offline because I'm not promoting any of these companies, but there's a couple of coffees that actually have L-theanine with it. And I think it

Starting point is 01:02:06 comes with, it's mostly found in green tea, but it's basically just like a compound or an antioxidant or something that combats like the jitters and the kind of crazy, like almost anxiety spike that you can sometimes feel from too much caffeine. So it totally sort of like smooths that out and brings it down, which is also why people, I think, in some cases who do like matcha or green tea instead of coffee, like it's a completely different feeling than drinking like a giant nitro cold brew or something. But it might be worth checking out because I actually use it. Excuse me, I'm somebody who doesn't need caffeine at all. I still drink coffee because I find it pleasurable, but I have a hard time like calming down at night and going to sleep. And so I'm always looking for sort of like natural ways to assist me in kind of like down

Starting point is 01:02:49 regulating and calming down and quieting my mind. And I found L-theanine to actually be quite helpful. So that might be something you want to look into. Yeah. You'll have to send that to me email or something after our lovely chat here. Yes. 100%. Well, speaking of that, I think we're probably coming to a close here. And I know you have a company to run. So I'm going to let you get back to it. But I really, really appreciate you taking the time. And like I said, I've been a fan of yours for a while. And I just have so much respect for what you're doing and how you're doing it and the thought and the care and the strength that you're putting into what you're doing. And so thank you for that. It's awesome to get to know your company and

Starting point is 01:03:31 you a bit better. Thank you. I really appreciate that. And, you know, yeah, we're, girl, we're trying hard out here. I see it. I see it. And I respect it. Where can people follow you guys, like on social media or online? Of course, if they want to buy some gloves, where do they go? Yes, you can follow us at Society9, 9 is spelled out, N-I-N-E on Instagram. And then you can also visit us at our website, which is same thing, Society9NINE.com. And if you have any questions, email us at sales at society9, again, n-i-n-e.com. Awesome. Lynn, thank you again for your time.

Starting point is 01:04:10 Enjoy your 4th of July and your busy summer. And let's get together in New York. Sounds good. Thanks again. All right. Thank you so much for listening, everybody. Reach out to me, as always, Instagram. You know where to find me, at TheMuscleMaven. Let me know

Starting point is 01:04:26 what you think of the episode. Share it with someone who you think could learn from it. That's the best treat for me always. And thank you again to our esteemed burger purveyors over at Butcher Box. Remember, if you order some of their meats, their meat boxes, they throw in some free burgers for you because they're just caring people like that. So head to butcherbox.com forward slash maven. Use the code maven at checkout. Get yourself a good deal. Guys, you're going to eat meat anyway. It's delicious. It's good for you. Get the good quality stuff. Get some free burgers. Okay. Join me next week. I'm speaking with Dr. Ralph Esposito. Once again, that was a very popular episode that I did a while back talking about hormones. This time, we're talking about adrenal fatigue, why that is a misleading term, what's actually

Starting point is 01:05:11 happening, and most importantly, how to support your adrenal health when you are a badass who probably works out too much. I'm talking to you. So very useful information, guys. Make sure you're subscribed to Shrug Collective so that you catch it next Thursday, every Thursday. And until then, have an awesome week.

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Barbell Shrugged - Supporting Women in Combat Sports: Society Nine’s Lynn Le — Muscle Maven Radio Episode #23

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