Barbell Shrugged - [Testosterone] How to Naturally Increase Testosterone by 300% w/ Dan Garner, Andy Galpin, Anders Varner, Doug Larson, Travis Mash, and Dan Garner #742

Episode Date: April 10, 2024

Dan Garner is a co-founder of RAPID Health Optimization which offers high-level, personalized online health and performance coaching for world class results. His coaching resume is second to none having worked with dozens of professional athletes, CEO’s, and Investors. Within his clientele he has worked with three superbowl champions, two UFC title winners, an Olympic gold medialist, two Olympic bronze medalists, three hall-of-fame inductees and two all-time world record breakers. In this Episode of Barbell Shrugged: Why bloodwork, stool samples, urine, and hair create a full health profile How micros are the secret to ultimate performance How to increase testosterone in the shortest amount of time How confidence can be the secret to increased testosterone Specific supplements for increased testosterone Connect with our guests: Work with this full team at RAPID Health Optimization Dan Garner Instagram Dr. Andy Galpin Instagram Anders Varner on Instagram Doug Larson on Instagram Coach Travis Mash on Instagram  

Shrug family, this week on Barbell Shrug, we're throwing it back to the very first episode when we met Dan for the very first time. Dan Garner, Dr. Andy Galpin, Travis, Doug, and myself all in one big place. Not only is this show incredibly informative when it comes to testosterone, kind of understanding the theory of constraints when it comes to your physiology, how Dan reads labs, and doing it all in the framework of understanding testosterone and how to improve it. It's also the very first time that in the history, really, of the show where we interviewed a guest, and I immediately reached into my pocket, handed him the money and said, I want to work with you,

which within three or four months of that moment became kind of like the very first movement towards creating rapid health optimization, which has been a phenomenal, phenomenal piece of everyone's life since we hit the go button. Not only that, it's great to have a little throwback every once in a while. This episode has been the number one show actually in multiple years, because I like to throw it in here every once in a while and just kind of remind myself the nostalgia as well as the learning side of it. And it's just a very cool moment for

all four of us to kind of go back and see like how far we have come, which is very, very cool. It's a heartwarming thing for the people that are closely involved to the day-to-day processes and things that we've been growing over the last three-ish years. As always, friends, if you'd like to see Dan and Andy do their thing, you can head over to rapidhealthreport.com. That is where they are doing a free lab lifestyle and performance analysis. And you can access that free report over at rapidhealthreport.com. Friends, let's get into the show. Welcome to Barbell Struggle. I'm Andrew Gardner.

Doug Larson, Coach Travis Fass. Dr. Andy Galpin and Dan Gardner. Today on Barbell Struggle, we're going to be talking about nutrition, lab work, and we're just going to kick this thing right off. I'd love to hear a little bit of the background and then really get into testosterone. That's something that is, I got about three hours of sleep last night. So I imagine if I went into your lab today to talk about it, you'd just look at me and be like, dude, you're sick and three quarters female. What's going on? But you and Galpin have been working on some athletes together, and I'd love to just get a little bit of the background, introduce yourself to the audience

and how you got into really digging so deep into lab work and its effects on hormone balance. Sure. So yeah, everybody, my name is Dan Garner. I'm coming from Canada today. So this is an international barbell shrug. And I've been into fitness and being a meathead for a long time. I'm one of the original meatheads who would have the plastic concrete weights in their garage and would just hammer away at that thing. And absolutely freezing in the winter, absolutely boiling in the summer. There's no insulation here. So you can imagine what training like that was like, but it was worth it. I had meathead dreams. And that's what kind of brought me to focusing so much on research and stuff, not because I was getting such great results and loving it,

but because I had absolutely no genetics for getting jacked. So I was falling in love with reading absolutely every single article about nutrition, about training. And since that point, I've completely dedicated my life. I do mean it when I say that I'm obsessed with this stuff. I don't know if anybody can read as much as I've read in the world of lab-based nutrition and applying high performance protocols to athletes. I've worked with professional athletes, dozens of them in nine different professional sports. I've trained and coached three Super

Bowl champions, multiple Hall of Famers, two UFC title winners, and hopefully two more coming this September. Working with Galatrin, we got some exciting stuff coming up. I've worked with an Olympic gold medalist, two bronze medalists, a silver medalist. I've basically been around the block working with tons of very, very high level people traveling the world, educating different gyms and associations on nutrition, training, all that kind of stuff. So I've been in the game for a long time. And I absolutely love talking shop. So thanks for having me on here today. Yeah, I sent Galpin a text message saying, who's the best endocrinologist,

you know? Because we're taking this really deep dive into testosterone. It's something that's super interesting to us. And we've got a bunch of projects that we're working on on our side. And he immediately, well, not immediately. And immediately is like a week after Galpin. So immediately on his schedule, he texted back your name and started rattling off. We're taking hair samples.

We're taking urinalysis. We're doing blood work, stool samples. What I'd love to dig into before we even kind of get into everything that you guys are finding out on the hormone side of thing and testosterone side of things. But like, what can we learn from blood work? Because I feel like there's, I've gone to doctors before and there's like your standard doctor and then there's your super high performance doctor. And the amount of blood work

that comes out of your standard doctor takes like four vials. And then I go to my high performance doctor and I feel like they walk out with four gallons of blood and they're testing 50 different things. And I have no idea why the difference, like what leads you down kind of a path to getting into hair follicles, getting into urinalysis, getting into blood work, stool samples. How does all this stuff kind of play together? And what are you looking for in each one? I'm looking for absolutely everything.

I mean, and that's why I order everything. So it's not just a blood analysis because if you get a blood analysis, you're getting a snapshot of one's physiology. But urine, stool, hair, you're getting the full movie of one's physiology. And when you're able to look at the entire movie of somebody's physiology, what I'm essentially doing is trying to identify a root cause

or what I refer to as a performance anchor. Everybody's got one. And it's the ultimate plateau buster. When a lot of people are looking for the next advanced periodization scheme, regulating intensity, frequency, volume, specificity, variation. They're doing a lot of complicated linguistics

and tactics within the gym. And granted, these things are all absolutely vital to get world-class results. But what I found when it comes to breaking through plateaus and bringing someone's physiology to a truly optimized level is identifying what root causes are currently holding them back. So what do I mean by that? Well, let's just go with an easy example. Let's

say somebody has acid reflux, okay? If somebody has acid reflux, what does the average person do? They're going to go to their pharmacy. They're going to get some Tums typically because it's antacid and they will suppress that acid secretion. Boom, done. That's what a lot of coaches do unintentionally. Even medical practitioners will do unintentionally and people do unintentionally. And I'm saying unintentionally because they don't really know they're operating on a symptom-based level rather than a root cause-based level. The symptom was acid secretion.

But one thing I would never want the listeners to forget is that the symptom is never the problem. The symptom is only ever the result of the problem. So my brain just works differently. I don't say, hey, there's acid shooting up my esophagus. How do I suppress that? Instead, I ask, why is acid shooting up my esophagus? Let's answer that question. I answer, why do we have acid shooting up our esophagus? That's not a normal function

of physiology. Let's answer that question first so we can identify the root cause, solve it at a root causal level, and then that person can move forward in the absence of medication. Because if we just take Tums, for example, and suppress that acid, we now have no idea what the root cause was. We have no idea what ripple effect that's creating within the organisms of the body. And we have no idea what kind of impact that can have towards a number of factors. When you're talking about just in this example, it's gut health, digestion, absorption, hormone balance,

all the things your microbiome are connected to. There's so many different things here. So when you're asking me, what am I looking for in labs? I'm trying to identify any kind of root cause that I can. And when I find that root cause, that's always, always, always one's performance anchor. And essentially what I'm looking at, or is, and then this is gonna be a big answer, but I'm looking at someone's total stress load. If somebody has a stress load,

that's always gonna impact their ability to recover from exercise. When I work with athletes, like I've worked with, like I've said, the best athletes in the world, they're not short of mental toughness. The problem is your weekly training frequency is not designed based on how bad you want it. Your weekly training frequency is designed based on your adaptive capability. If you can't adapt from your current training load, well, it's really not advantageous for you to keep training more just because you want it.

You're gonna be digging a deeper and deeper debt of fatigue. So when I'm looking at total body stressors, stress can come from anywhere and hurt these adaptive reserves, whether it's going to be a bacterial infection, yeast infection, parasitic infection, hormone imbalance, you name it. These are all something else now that the immune system has to focus on instead of just focusing on adapting from training. So when I remove the root cause, I'm removing that performance anchor,

allowing them to adapt for more stimulus. Shard family, I want to take a quick break. If you are enjoying today's conversation, I want to invite you to come over to rapidhealthreport.com. When you get to rapidhealthreport.com, you will see an area for you to opt in, in which you can see Dan Garner read through my lab work. Now, you know that we've been working at Rapid Health Optimization on programs for optimizing health. Now, what does that actually mean? It means in three parts, we're going to be doing a ton of deep dive into your labs. That means the inside out approach. So we're not going to be guessing your macros. We're not

going to be guessing the total calories that you need. We're actually going to be guessing your macros. We're not going to be guessing the total calories that you need. We're actually going to be doing all the work to uncover everything that you have going on inside you. Nutrition, supplementation, sleep. Then we're going to go through and analyze your lifestyle. Dr. Andy Galpin is going to build out a lifestyle protocol based on the severity of your concerns. And then we're going to also build out all the programs that go into that based on the most severe things first. This truly is a world-class program, and we invite you to see step one of this process by going over to rapidhealthreport.com. You can see Dan reading my labs, the nutrition and supplementation that he has recommended that has radically shifted the way that I sleep,

the energy that I have during the day, my total testosterone level, and it's my ability to trust and have confidence in my health going forward. I really, really hope that you're able to go over to rapidhealthreport.com, watch the video of my labs and see what is possible. And if it is something that you are interested in, please schedule a call with me on that page. Once again, it's rapidhealthreport.com and let's get back to the show. You've said that word performance anchor three times. So that phrase, what can, can you describe that in a little bit more detail? I, I can put the two words together and kind of understand that, but can you dig deeper into just what, what exactly that means to you and, and what you're looking for? Is that, is that a hangup in someone's training or is that

the launch point to getting them to where they're going uh hey before you answer that um the audio is not doing its best service here uh i don't know dan like i'll love your audio is coming from your mic actually it's kind of charlie kind of chunk it ispy. Speak right into your mic and then speak away from your mic and see if it is radically different. Or tap your mic. Okay, is it better now? Way better.

Let me just make a note. Are we about 10 minutes into this thing so I can tell Colton when to edit this? Sounds about right. That's my fault. My mic was tell Colton when to edit this. Sounds about right. Sure. That's my fault. My mic was in my headset, not in this. Yeah.

Sounds so much better. Okay. Sorry. Yeah, you're good. All good. We can just roll from my question, and Colton will be able to edit it to exactly where we need you to go if you want to just hop into it while I make this note.

What is it? yeah so i it was it was really about um the term performance anchor and is that in your eyes the thing that is holding people back or is that the baseline that they should be at to the launch point forward to optimizing things. So is it the anchor of where you need to be to start, or is it the anchor holding you down from getting you to where you need to be? It's an anchor holding you down from getting you to where you need to be. Because if somebody has a dysfunction in their body, then their adaptive capability from training is absolutely going to be hampered. It's definitely going to be decreased. So you can think about it like a pie. You can think about somebody's recovery reserve like a pie. But if somebody has, say, a bacterial infection or a parasitic infection or a yeast infection or any of these types of issues, a micronutrient

deficiency, any of these, you can think about 20%, like a slice of that pie being gone. And because the immune system has to focus on multiple things at once. So when somebody thinks this is what this is one big thing that I do, I really take athletes potential to a level that they thought that they weren't capable of before, through increasing their health, rather than just focusing on performance markers, because the body is going to adapt to the degree of the health of the organism. So when I remove that piece of pie that's going towards mitigating stressors that are hidden within the body, then you're going to have more pie left over for your adaptive

capability, if that makes sense. Totally makes sense. I'm curious, like, you know, couldn't you make an argument to say that that like hormonal changes and even changes in the immune system could very well be coming from a part of their lifestyle versus like necessarily what they're putting in their body. So like if they're arguing with their spouse at home, the same changes could possibly, you know, there's clear evidence to say those same changes could happen. So would it always be nutritional or could you say, Hey, like we need to make these changes in your lifestyle? No, it's, it's definitely lifestyle based as well, because if I were to

stay here and stand here and say it was just nutrition, then I would be talking also saying your sleep doesn't matter. And we all know that that ain't true, right? So there are other factors. When I'm talking about stress impacting your recovery reserve, we're really looking at five different avenues. We're looking at environmental stressors, psychological stressors, emotional stressors, physical stressors, and then the last one, which I call a hidden stressor,

which is what I'm looking for on a lab to see if anything's impacting your adaptive capability. What would be the difference in a psychological and emotional? Psychological, I forgot to do my taxes. Shit. Emotional, family trauma. Okay. That's a lot of history. So, Dan, you work with a lot of super high-level athletes and presumably they were high level before you met with them in many cases.

And you would think if someone's a high level athlete, they're a world class competitor. They're already pretty dang healthy and they already focus on their nutrition to at least some extent, you would think. What do you find with these high level people is common where they're what's like the weak link in the chain kind of on average? Before you answer that i wish you all at home could see how much stan was smiling as soon as he was like no they don't they don't they don't they're really good at the same time yeah tackle that's how you feel yeah so that the reality is that you would be quite amazed at how much genetics play a role in becoming a professional athlete. I work with an NHL player who will not be named, but he never did any strength and conditioning until he got to the NHL.

He never trained once. He did no strength and conditioning until he got in the NHL and got a multimillion dollar contract. This is off of natural ability alone. And so this is something, I mean, Andy Boatman, he deadlifted 500 pounds the first time he entered a gym. There are people out there that are just simply freaks. But when it comes to your ability to maximize your potential, a lot of people think that eating clean means you're eating for high performance. And that's not necessarily true. Like you can have a bacterial or a parasitic infection and you'll get bloating and think it's normal. It's common, but it's not normal. That's not normal physiological function. You can get loose stools and diarrhea. It's common, but it ain't normal. So there's a lot of things people

chalk off as normal that aren't normal. Then we identify them, we eliminate them, and they're like, wow, I feel so much better. I mean, a lot of people actually are quite unsureometer for what they think is normal, but that changes the barometer for the goals they set on themselves, the potential they think they have. There's a lot of things. And when we remove this stuff, they have a completely different perspective. So when high level athletes come to me, I find something every single time. And let's just change the conversation though. Let's say they are perfect. So let's say they came to me and just like Doug said, that everything was perfect. They're already healthy. Everything is good. But as performance continues to push itself further, to set a world record now is a lot harder than it was to set in 1950.

And in absolutely anything, the human physiology is being pushed more than ever. So then let's, yeah. So let's just look at, say, we're on barbell shrugged. So let's just look at protein synthesis, okay? When you have protein, if we want to ignite protein synthesis, and we'll go through a big analogy here with a chef in a kitchen. If our nucleus is within our cell, I'm going to take everybody back to functional cellular biology. Our nucleus is inside of our cell. If we want to tell that nucleus to initiate protein synthesis,

that's what's known as cell signaling. We're going to signal that cell to initiate protein synthesis. That chef, the chef is our nucleus. It knows all of the recipes. It's the head chef. It knows every single recipe, but it doesn't do any of the cooking at all. So what the head chef does is it receives the cell signal to initiate protein synthesis. But since it doesn't do any of the cooking itself, it is going to go through cell transcription and tell the ribosomes in order to start making those proteins. Ribosomes are cell translation. So putting the order in for a new dinner is signaling. The chef taking in that order and knowing the recipe is cell transcription. And then the chef telling the line cooks, which is the ribosomes, to make those proteins is translation. Ultimately, those

ribosomes are going to make proteins, whether it's a hormone, enzyme, sodium pump transporter, or actin and myosin for a bigger bicep. That process is all the same. Here's what a lot of people forget. Stop. Can you go back to my undergrad and just redo that? So I don't wait 20 years of my life. Here's what a lot of people forget in respect to labs though. If you want your nucleus to do that job properly, it's going to need B12, folate, zinc, selenium, and copper. So if we're going to even inject a bunch of testosterone, we still need these micronutrients present within the nucleus in order to initiate cell transcription and ultimately translation. And then if we have those micronutrients, it is then going to go to the ribosomes to create more proteins. Those ribosomes are going to create proteins. The body can actually make its own amino acids. It's a process called transamination. It can make its own non-essential amino acids, the essential we

still need from our diet, but the non-essential we can make for ourself. There are over 200 enzymes involved in transamination. All of them require vitamin B6, every single one. And this is any form of protein synthesis, by the way. If you want to make insulin, fibrinogen, albumin, actin myosin, they're all going to require more B6. So we need all of those nutrients available at the nucleus. Then we need B6 for the transamination process to occur. So this is where my contention with IIFYM in a true sense, that's where at least my argument begins to where if we take in calories and macronutrients, sure, that is an enormous part of the equation. Nobody's arguing that. But to ignore micronutrients at the cellular level is to ignore the cellular processes you're trying to actually activate with your macronutrient and caloric allotment.

So we need to keep this rocking and rolling. And let's say, let's even take it, the analogy can go as long as you freaking want it to, because the nucleus is going to require atp for that to happen there's no free lunches in physiology none and nucleus is going to require atp for that to happen everybody loves pasta so let's have some let's have some pasta let's convert that glucose outside of the cell into pyruvate so we can enter the cell. We just lost a bunch of magnesium. If we're going to convert that pyruvate into acetyl-CoA so it can enter the Krebs cycle, that's going to require B1, B2, B3, B5, and lipoate. Now, glycolysis got us 2 ATP. The Krebs

cycle is not going to get us a whole lot except for an awesome thing called an electron, which is then going to go to the electron transport chain, get us 34 ATP. But in that electron transport train, we're going to need iron, copper, and oxygen. So we need those micronutrients to even give the ATP to the nucleus to do its job. But we also just brought oxygen into the equation. So now we need to depend on the micronutrient health of the red blood cells for that oxygen delivery. So this continues on and on and on and on and on. Everything is connected to everything. So when we're looking for performance anchors, we are looking in all areas of the body because they matter. If you want to set a world record in 2021, you have to care. If you want to push your body to its limits, your calories, macros, and micros all need to be in alignment. And the specificity needs to be in alignment for your sport for you to get absolutely everything out of your body. Yeah, I told you guys.

Yeah. So, Galvan, what's the guy that we interviewed? Doug, you'll remember as well, out of San Francisco that we interviewed about gut health and programming. Do you mean Bagley? Yeah. I don't know where. I believe this was like two years ago we interviewed him, and he was working on a study on gut health and how it related to a person's ability to like their volume

in their trainings, exercise, basically like by looking at someone's gut health, you'd be able to immediately write a training program specific to the way that their digestion, their, their, how does, how does gut health play into this and getting food really from the digestion process into the cells and getting this process moving? Let me answer really quickly and then Dan can answer. So one, I know Jimmy, we have a handful of more studies coming out on this correlation, but I'll just set Dan up here. If you're only going to look at the gut you're going to have real real real big problems right like if you stop at just the gut there's no chance

you could simply look at someone's gut microbiome analysis and program especially on nutrition there's no chance and this was two years ago so i'm imagining where you guys have gone in two years is way beyond. That's just the last conversation we had with them. And Dan can explain why that's a problem if he wants to. You should never do that. I don't hear why. Sure.

So, I mean, the gut health is wildly important, right? But, you know, you're going to come across people who are passionate about organs, who have been passionate about performance. So if I go to a seminar on brain function, I'm going to be shown amazing data that shows that everything begins in the brain. But then I could go to a seminar on liver health, and I'm going to be shown amazing data that everything begins with the liver. And you can go to a seminar on the microbiome, and you're going to be shown amazing information on the micro very compelling um awesome information but when your primary goal is performance you learn quickly um through not getting your clients results that everything is connected to everything and when you try to put all squares into some shapes that look like circles, you're going to get maybe 50% of your clients results and the other 50% not. So I think that the gut is an amazing thing to, to get to a high level of health. Um, one of the biggest reasons is simply because it's going to feed everything else, right? If you want, if you want to make thyroid hormone to improve fat loss, we are going to need tyrosine, iodine, and zinc

in order to get those T4s and T3s created. If you want to create testosterone, we are going to need vitamin B5, saturated fat, and cholesterols for it to get converted into pregnenolone and ultimately into testosterone. These things come from our diet, and it's not what you eat. It's what you eat and actually absorb. Because if you have a problem with your hydrochloric acid secretion, if you have a gallbladder or pancreatic duct issue, or if you have a problem with the microbiome, these things will impact digestion and assimilation.

So the gut health is key because it's going to feed your tissues, organs and organ systems. But to design a program based off of that would be short-sighted because root causes can absolutely exist elsewhere in the physiology. Yeah. And I'm sure you guys, like I said before, I'm sure Jimmy's done a ton of work since then. It's just two years ago, he brought this up to us and I was like, whoa whoa we are really going in a wild direction right now um in a more practical approach like you're working with professional athletes and i'm sure some of them live in a a gym and they're training in a specific place and then they go to vegas for the fight and everything is so controlled but you take an nhL team and they're on the road for seven days. They're home for five. They're back on the

road. Assuming they have to go out and eat. Everybody listening to this knows that if you go out to eat and you've been really healthy for three weeks and then you go eat a meal at some restaurant, no matter how healthy you think you are very close to needing to run to the bathroom because you just consumed a bunch of oils and a bunch of weird stuff. Like how do you structure that? So that's not normal. That's very not normal. You know, it's not normal when it happens to you, but it's, it happens every time. Like it's, it's clockwork, right? Right. How do you take somebody that is completely optimized? And it had to have been Galpin that kind of presented this idea of like we fully optimize somebody and then we have to like create problems so that then the body can adapt to that stuff and still work optimally? Like, what is it? What does that process look? Because I feel like you don't

want to have some NHL player going to the local restaurant and the next day wakes up and he's just got gas and wakes up with the shits. That's terrible. Yes, for sure. But I mean, it is going to happen. There are some things that are just simply unavoidable. And for me to be a robot for my clients would be for me to be a bad coach. There's a science to coaching, which is me breaking down the electron transport chain. But then there's the art of coaching, of making it apply to their actual lifestyle. So what I'll typically do is give athletes recommended restaurants and meals that they can consume. But for NHL players specifically in the past, I've actually contacted restaurants and they'll actually make the Doug Larson specific meal

or they'll make the Anders Varner meal. You can actually contact, because yeah, the restaurants want those types of celebrities in their facility. And when it's something as simple as, hey, make a steak without all the oils, you jackasses, that it's pretty simple for them to do. And then they still have a celebrity

who is guaranteed to now go there because they've got a... for them that they can order. So it's essentially a situation where you make the meal plan fit the client rather than try and make the client fit the meal plan. Yeah. You mentioned earlier parasites and I'll just give a little shout out. Dr. Gabrielle Lyon came in and we did a bunch of blood work and stuff with her. And that was one of the things that she was like really focused on and like parasites living in

our gut. And at some point I kind of looked at her and I was like, you're just smarter than me. And I'm going to nod my head because I'm like the host of this podcast and I'm going to think we're talking about the same thing, but I don't get it. Where do I get parasites? How do I know I have them? What does that even mean? Like that sounds terrifying. Like I've got this like thing living in me. That's sucking all of my gains. Like, I don't want that. Yeah. So I actually, I almost laughed at the beginning of your question because I thought you were giving a shout out to parasites.

No, we don't want those. I'll give him a shout out. Shout out to parasites. We love her. Yeah. Yeah. No, parasites. So that's something where it's a huge area of investigation in current science right now. And to try and identify where they come from can be a nightmare. Like when you're coaching, you want to look at what's actionable. What's, it can come, I would say, I would tell you that undercooked

meat and bad water are probably your top two contributors for any type of bacterial or parasitic issue. But when it comes to worms, that's usually international travel. So there's different things and it's trying to, I mean, you can see I'm even struggling to find an answer here because you'll actually find that in the literature. It can come from water. It can come from raw meat. It can come from any kind of cooking procedure. It can come from a lot of different things or even just poor hygiene. So trying to eliminate them from your life is very difficult to do. So I think that instead we should simply just, you know, people have no problem getting their car looked at once a year for a tune-up,

yet nobody does a tune-up on the vehicle that they have to live in for the rest of their life once a year. People don't do lab work. And I think that just like you would look at your car to see if there's any issue with it, you should look at your body to see if there's any issue with it, you should look at your body to see if there's any issue with it. Because like I said, a parasite can be relatively asymptomatic because a lot of people think things are normal. But yeah, a weird, cool example for this question would be like a blastocystis hominis. That is a parasite that's been demonstrated to have inflammation within our connective tissue and joint structures. So somebody can actually have an inflamed elbow or inflamed hip or knee, and they'll be looking at they'll they yes, they will be looking at all things biomechanics. Yet this type of parasite

can migrate and create inflammation within connective tissue. Now, Bash, you want your head back now, don't you? Yeah. I was reading a book, Endure. Have you read that book, Endure? It's really about like aerobic conditioning, the theories. There's a certain governing theory. You know, of course, you know, there's the traditional VO2 max, lactate threshold. And when I'm gathering, it seems to be like a conglomerate of all of them,

but mainly probably controlled by the brain so like you know with with size being where it is it looks like you know like it's still kind of up in the air you know from what i've read you know like what do we know like where do you focus on what is the 100 this is correct and like i'm going to focus here to make sure i get you know 100 to my to my clients you know which is where i'm at like i'm going to focus here to make sure i get you know 100 to my to my clients you know which is where i'm at like i'm really studying fatigue you know with our weightlifters and try to you know everyone has tried to give your your weightlifters too far but not enough but like it just seems like a lot of things are like uncertainties. Where do you focus? Right. So where do I focus in respect to performance can be a really big question.

So I'll kind of use an analogy here. A lot of people want to make a lot more money so they have more money in the bank, right? So one of the best ways to have more money in the bank is not to make more money, but to cut your expenses. So what I would do is look at lab analysis and cut my expenses. I what I would do is look at lab analysis and cut my expenses. I'm looking for root causes to eliminate so that bank account is looking a lot better.

Bank account representing adaptive reserve, so that athlete can perform more training each week and actually maximally adapt from it. So I'm not necessarily focusing on performance. I'm focusing on identifying dysfunction within physiology. And as a byproduct not necessarily focusing on performance. I'm focusing on identifying dysfunction within physiology. And as a byproduct, I get great performance. Totally makes sense. So if you have an athlete that comes in and they have lots of joint pain, they're just like, my elbow hurts. My training is not that crazy. They don't feel like, at what point do you go,

okay, probably a parasite. And like, you know what I mean? Like, how do you make the leap to parasite from just my obohurts? Well, they got to kind of pass the dumbass test first, right? What's your training frequency? What's your technique? You know, do you have a previous injury history? And then also just basic inflammation and oxidative stress. Like a lot of these things are going to knock away, say 80 to 90% of the issues. If somebody comes in with sore joints, but if you rule out, okay, this person does understand

biomechanics. They were taught to bench press properly. Their volume frequency and intensity isn't anything crazy. They don't have previous injury history. And I know from their homocysteine or CRP, their 8-hydroxy-2-deoxyguanosine, all these inflammatory markers are looking great. So let's do a stool test because you might have more issues that, or this issue may have been something for you for so long because it's been hidden in that area and you've already checked all the other boxes. What comes from hair follicle testing? I'm sorry, I don't have any. So this is, now I need to know what I'm missing out on.

Me neither, bro. There you go. Me neither. There it is. I know where interest comes from now. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, with hair follicle testing, you're going to get an insight on all metals.

So beneficial and non-beneficial. You'll get an insight towards toxic metal, so beneficial and non-beneficial. You get an insight towards toxic metal exposure and excretion, but you also get insight as to things like zinc and chromium, such as that as well. So hair is essentially a natural storage depot for the body to excrete metals. So it just gives you insight as to what's going on with metal excretion in the body. It's great to inform decisions for protocol design, but not necessarily make decisions on protocol design. I'll use it in combination with several other markers to decide what's going on with the current metal status of the body. Yeah. And there's one easy example there is uh if you thought for some reason or you had mercury you know at a high level or something you simply cannot get that in any other way besides the hair

you're going to get faulty readings across the board so zinc he mentioned that as another good one so typically with those metals and minerals um you need them to be around for a long time for them to matter is one way to think about it. So you're not going to get accurate numbers from blood or stool or anything else. So it's not something you, one would always need necessarily. But that that's where you're going to get true heavy metal numbers. That was our question. Where do you start? Like, you know, like say you get a high level athlete, you just go all air and do hair. Okay. Let me, let me, let me get myin's coming your way by the way yeah um and then dan can answer this so here's what

i have been saying for a number of years how many of you uh guys have ever gotten like a blood panel and you look at it and you're like you look at the reference range numbers and you're like all right like yeah no what have you done with that blood panel? Nothing. Nothing. This is like 97% 99% of people who ever got a one power. They're like, I do. Actually, to answer your question even deeper, I look at it and I go, oh, that was like a day.

I give it zero credibility. If I did it like 30 days in a row and had rolling averages or something like that, but I literally go do it because somebody tells me every year I'm supposed to go get a physical cough and take blood. And I'm like, cool. Yeah. This is my point. So it means dick all right. Like nobody, it doesn't matter. You feel like you can interpret it yourself and nobody ever makes hardly any change at best. You would look at it and say, Oh, maybe my vitamin D is low. And then maybe you take some vitamin D, right? Yeah, that's right. So here's my contention before Danny wants to answer.

I don't even recommend doing that. If you're not going to truly try to understand what's going on and make changes, I wouldn't do any of it because you're just going to spend your money and you're not going to change anything. Nothing's going to happen. If you're going to try to interpret it, you're going to get a very low-level coach who can just look at the numbers and all they're really going to do

is look over at the reference value and be like, everything looks good. Then you're going to have huge problems because as Dan can, I'm sure, explain, you can see several numbers on there that look perfect, but they actually, two or three markers that look perfect

can give you very specific clues about massive problems you have. So you really have to have somebody that can understand, let's look at your LDL levels. Let's look at your lymphocytes. Ah, actually, see, this ratio is telling us something about what's going on in a host of areas. There's so many examples we could get into here, but this is why I'm going to generally recommend, Travis, your question was, where do we start? So my question is, don't start at all unless you're going to go all the way, because you're going to get a waste of time. You're going to get likely false negatives or false positives. You're going to go in the wrong direction. You're going to start taking iron supplementation when you actually

don't need it because you're probably over-creating iron as it is. Same thing with cortisol, other reasons, right? So you oftentimes can go in the wrong direction. So my recommendation to start is just spend your energy and time on the very basics, right? If you're going to go to no labs at all, you really have to try to optimize sleep. You have to go for sleep hygiene. You have to go for hydration. You have to go for all these things because these do honestly tackle 90% of the problems. You will fix a huge majority of people if you do the very basics. If you can't get those done or you've done all those and you're still having problems

or you're just the type of person who's trying to chase a medal or trying to chase a huge dream and you're like, I don't even care. I just want to make sure i'm optimized right now and this is the type of person dan and i work with right like these are i don't have six months to figure out if i can improve my sleep at that like i just want to know now so my recommendation to start is that either go a route depending on your scenario or go straight to the end which is like let's just get all the answers and figure it out from there so if you were to lay out the metrics of like these are the basics this is 90 we've got sleep

eight hours how much water a half gallon to a gallon a day like what does that what does that checklist look like on sleep hydration and relatively i, macros for the day? Myself? Either of you. Just as like if somebody isn't going to go get all four of these things tested or five of these things tested and they're not interested in their blood work, what is like the big checklist of where they can start? So I think any checklist begins with context, of course, right? And I know everybody says it depends, but it kind of does depend. I got to be that I got to be that guy who says context matters. So your checklist is going to be shorter if your goals are shorter.

Your checklist is going to be larger if your goals are larger. But if you're if you're somebody who is interested in doing what you can in the absence of labs, you would be looking at things that I think a lot of people could predict, I would say. I mean, you would be looking at, say, sleep and the National Sleep Foundation for adults. They suggest seven to nine hours of uninterrupted sleep per night, which I think is a great goal for anybody to hit. Your water intake, I think a good place to start would be half an ounce of water per day per pound of body weight. So if you're 200 pounds, 100 ounces of water per day is a good intake. Now use the Galpin equation for your workout hydration. That's an equation that's becoming world famous very fast. I think your hydration would be key. I mean, for those people,

for your average person, I don't even think calories and macronutrients are going to be that big so long as you have whole minimally processed foods and a source of protein with every single meal and snack. I mean, everybody is debating about whether we should go carbs or fats, but so long as protein is at a gram per pound of body weight per day and you're not in a hypercaloric state, you're going to be a pretty healthy person at a base level. So it'd be hitting that whole minimally processed foods, very good source of protein with each meal and snack of the day, hydration, sleep. And I think the last thing I would check off that's quite difficult, but needs to be checked

off would be stress management. So if you can knock all of those down, then you're a healthy person. Context after that determines how we're going to refine that checklist and if you want labs and what labs we're going to go with. Let me ask you guys, you two experts who work with top of the salon athletes, how important do you believe that like, you know, at the tip top, what I've noticed is that what separates the people who are actually winning is simply the person who can it when they when it's time to compete who can be calm and like so it goes down to their you know the brain like you

know like how can you can you stay calm when you compete how important is sports psychology is it like have you seen it work you Have you seen it help people? Like, you just feel like, to me, it's a clear indicator. Ryan, when he competes, he just is an animal every single time. And he is probably not the best Adelinaf coach, but he's the best winner. Yep. What are your thoughts?

Can it change? Yeah, I've got two answers for that. I've got a psychology answer, and I've got a psychology answer and I've got a biochemistry answer. We'll go sports psychology first. Entering that flow state, I think that's absolutely key. You're looking at stimulation of one's mind. If somebody is not stimulated enough for competition, they're a little too relaxed and a little too apathetic about the drive that's required to win. But if somebody is too stimulated for competition, you know, yeah, absolutely. In the octagon, you're going to be tight and very springy instead of those are fluid.

Yeah, if you're playing hockey, you're not going to be patient with the puck. You're going to, that's, that's not going to work either, but that state of flow is going to be right in the middle. And I think achieving a state of flow is very ritualistic. When you look at some of the best athletes that have ever existed, um, you know, I absolutely love MMA. So you'll see Anderson Silva open his arms and he bounces off the cage. George St. Pierre, he's going to sprint to one side and sprint back to the other side. John Jones, he's going to crawl into the octagon. These are very ritualistic things that transfer you from your everyday self to your high performance self. And when you have a ritual that's, say, body weight only,

if it's a home game or an away game, you're able to perform that ritual and enter that state of flow that turns you into your high performance self. And I think that that's really key is to create some form of, it could be your movement, so your kinesthetic, but also an auditory signal as well. They're really keeping headphones on and performing a certain ritual in order to enter that state of float. So the crowd's not impacting you and music's not impacting you. Nothing's impacting you. So I think creating a ritual is absolutely key for achieving a state of flow and the right stimulation required for optimal performance. But when we look at this biochemically, this is where nutrition comes back into play. When you're looking to say, for example, create the neurotransmitter dopamine,

dopamine is required for focus, motivation, drive, and attention span, things that are real key to perform at our best. Well, we're going to begin with L-tyrosine. L-tyrosine is going to be broken down into phenylhydroxyalanine, and then we're going to need B6 in order to make dopamine. So if somebody doesn't have enough B6, it doesn't really matter what is going on upstairs because biochemically, you cannot make dopamine. It is a rate-limiting step. So you will reduce your dopamine synthesis due to a reduction in micronutrients. But the chain, that metabolic pathway continues because after dopamine, if you want to make epinephrine or norepinephrine, you're going to require vitamin C and copper. So if we want epinephrine and norepinephrine, or a lot of people know them

as adrenaline and noradrenaline, then you're going to need vitamin C and copper. And dopamine, epinephrine, and norepinephrine is the hormonal and neurotransmitter cascade we need for optimal brain performance. Yet there are rate limiting steps dependent upon macronutrients. So our pre-game or pre-fight ritual is what's going to get us psychologically into that state. But unless we have the micronutrients and macronutrients to back up that state, brain performance, just like I said, there's no free lunches in physiology. Everybody, every nutrition coach is, let's hydrate the muscle cell. Let's get glycogen in the muscle cell. Let's use electrolytes in the muscle cell. What about your brain? You take two fighters and put them in the octagon. They're both of equal physical ability,

but one has better brain performance than the other. He's going to win every single time. And yet we can impact that nutritionally and we can test that in the lab. So let's freaking do that to take you to the next level. This is brilliant. I swear. Go ahead, Matt. Sorry, bud. I would just say, like, you know, by walking and being at the world championships so many times, being at Pan American championships, it never is the muscle that keeps somebody from winning. Because I know plenty of people who should have won and never probably will because they lack something going on in the brain and like you know and like some people who have really tried to they work with sports psychologists but they but the two people i'm thinking about have never looked at it from you know chemical you know yeah i guess levels so that

there has to be that because it just like it looks impossible for them no matter what they do to ever like number one be calm or ever or to enter a flow state people i can think they just have never entered that flow state ever you know like i wonder well that's in comparison to somebody like ryan too that just goes out always smashes all daily like he's just ready to go eat people's lunch every day yeah so that boy on the other hand you know like this guy um at the rl classic when he weighs in now he i told him at the last second hey we should do oh no sorry it was at the senior nationals the last one we got much probably do i think you make the world team he's only 19 years old and you know he's a junior athlete i think you can beat this guy

it's like you want to try he He's like, I'll try. So he was way overweight. So he came to weigh-ins, and he looked like a skeleton. He looked, boys, he could not form his words. Like, he couldn't communicate. That's how bad it was. He finally made it away. He took it forever. Took it to the last second to make it.

And then he comes in and destroys everybody. Because that guy's brain it's like i promise you it's not it's not yeah it's shit you know his brain but what if this guy do what we're talking you know number one like any set you'll have to you know you'll have to say i will do it you know if you would do it i feel like you you see extraordinary things for someone like that who can get into the flow state when it appears to be yeah yeah uh i'm i'm curious as if your basics aren't on point how it changes what your blood work looks like so say uh you're in a caloric surplus for a long time you're eating too many carbs and and too much fat not enough

protein and you put on 20 30 pounds of body weight. Can you look at someone's labs and just clearly see, oh, this person's obviously overweight, even if you hadn't seen them in person, didn't know anything about them. And then when they lose the weight, are there changes back that are kind of recoverable, we'll say? Yes. So that's actually how I prefer to coach, believe it or not. I'll actually look at someone's lab before I look at the questionnaire because I don't want the questionnaire to impact my biases. So I want to look at the lab without even knowing the person because labs always sing a song to me. If I'm looking at your numbers, I'm looking at your physiology and breaking everything down. I don't want to look at your symptoms yet because I don't want your symptoms

to dictate where my brain goes when I'm looking at your labs because that can happen. So when I'm looking at labs to answer your question, absolutely, I can tell if you're overweight, blood sugar mismanagement, if there's even smaller things like within reference ranges to bring it back to what Andy was saying. There are some things, even though they fall within the normal on reference ranges, they aren't abnormal at all, especially not for a world-class athlete. So I'm able to identify and break down a ton of things

without ever meeting the person or looking at their questionnaire. And it's my preferred route. I look at the questionnaire after. Did you give us an example of that? Sorry, because I know you can't. Will you give us an example of like seeing multiple things in the reference range that look great, but actually give you a clue?

For sure, man. This is actually what pisses me off a lot of times, actually. This is something I could talk about for hours. I think probably really relevant for the audience, I would say albumin, glucose, and vitamin D are probably three really good examples, beginning with albumin. Albumin, a lot of people don't even know what it is, but it's in every single standard blood test. And elevated, even trending high elevations, are directly correlated to dehydration. So if somebody can have a normal albumin, but if it's trending high, it's absolutely representative of a dehydrated state within physiology. But albumins, and this is where reference ranges, you have to actually have a grip on the literature rather than trust the reference range. Because reference ranges, a lot of them are built on just tons of normative data of people visiting their doctor. But these people are visiting the doctor, so they're not exactly always the healthiest people, and they're also on medication, which can impact reference ranges in and of itself.

So when we're building reference ranges based off of these mass amounts of people who aren't necessarily healthy and could also potentially be on medication, you need to then have a strong grip on the literature to be able to trust the reference range, especially within the context of who you're looking at. A good example, let's just keep with albumin. If you're comparing the Mayo Clinic to LabCorp, the Mayo Clinic's reference range for albumin is 3.5 to 5, whereas LabCorp's reference range for albumin is 4 to 5. Yet, there was a study, it was from the Journal of Insurance Medicine, and they followed 1.7 million people for 12 years. Excellent data identified that mortality rates went up 189% once you are below four within albumin. So if you went and utilized the Mayo Clinic reference range and you're at 3.5, good to

go, man, Go home. You're going to be 189% more likely to die, but just go home. That's absolutely unacceptable, in my opinion. So trending high can represent dehydration, but having a grip on the literature lets you know if you're going to die or not, because you could be considered normal. Very important. Yeah, exactly. A couple other examples, vitamin D. Vitamin D is a good one because whenever something like, like vitamin D is something the entire industry actually needs to shape up a little bit about.

Even in a common sense perspective. If vitamin D comes back low on a lab, people just supplement with vitamin D. I could teach my golden retriever to do that. If something come back low, I supplement with it. But then you're going to have... Biology is never that easy. I'm sorry. It's just absolutely not that easy. When you look at vitamin D, magnesium is required for vitamin D synthesis. Magnesium is also required to convert. This is another thing people don't know. 25-hydroxyvitamin D is what people are testing, yet it's 125 that is the actual active form of vitamin D. So when you're testing 25-hydroxy, you don't know if you're testing vitamin D3 or vitamin D2. You don't even know. And then you're also not even testing

the active form of vitamin D, which is 125. Magnesium is required to synthesize vitamin D and convert vitamin D. Magnesium is also involved in vitamin D binding globulin, which a lot of people don't even know exists. Do you have messed up vitamin D or do you have no magnesium? It's also yeah go ahead vitamin d and magnesium are like the the perfect segue to uh kind of a question that i know what the high level answer is going to be but i'd love for you to kind of dig into the idea of like people taking their lab results saying oh i'm low in vitamin d they go and take vitamin d supplements and then they go go and take the magnesium off the shelf.

It's going to lead them also to these everyday vitamins and mineral pills that I know they're just putting it in there, hoping for the best, hoping that the chemistry works and that I'll be healthy tomorrow. And it's not the long-term solution. It's not specifically to their needs. But what are some of the pitfalls of taking an everyday multivitamin and why that shouldn't be the answer and how someone can look at their blood work and actually make a better decision? Yeah. So even you just saying the low vitamin D and taking vitamin D, there's an actual, and there's excellent papers on this and not like crazy people papers.

The NHANES has published that lead has an inverse relationship with vitamin D. A lot of people don't know vitamin D actually increases your absorption of minerals. So it's been hypothesized that the body will actually as a protective mechanism, lower vitamin D in the body in the presence of heavy metal toxicity. So if someone has low vitamin D and then they say, oh, I'm going to have more vitamin D, you could actually have a lot of lead in your body. And now you're just increasing absorption of heavy metals for further toxicity. So do you have low vitamin D or is your body literally trying to protect itself from further toxicity and you're dumping in and check this, Like someone will say, well, vitamin D didn't move up with 5,000 IU.

So let's bump it up to 10,000 IU. Does that sound logical? Why would we ever do that? Why is that accepted? It's so far beyond the RDA and you don't ask why is vitamin D low? Like even this is so like Andy in California where there's so much sunlight how many people with low vitamin d have you seen everyone yeah exactly so we need to start asking better questions instead of giving people enormous doses of vitamin d because it's correlated with any other sorry can

you dig into that because that actually is, wildly. This is also a massive fucking problem is you can actually look back. Some of the guys have brought through a lot of the vitamin E stuff years ago. So now we're talking five plus years of research now. And this has been fairly clear in the literature that the measurement methods of vitamin D probably are very questionable. And now actually, and Dan just posted this a couple of days ago on his Instagram. I saw, if you look at what's actually coming in vitamin D supplements. So if you think you're taking 5,000 IUs, it could be 10 to 100 fold off, up or down. So you could be taking 500,000 IUs per pill.

You could be taking five. And then it's a very common, if you look across the vitamin D supplements, you're just getting a fucking insanely wide range of actionable dosage. And that doesn't even take into context what Dan was just talking about of why is your vitamin D low? Is it that you're not in the sun? Well, okay, maybe, but there's all kinds of problems here. And this is exactly why I was saying earlier, just don't do blood work and start taking pills. Yeah, really, really have to look at the system because you're going to get false findings. And this is literally what I was talking about earlier.

Or you're going to go in a worse direction. And Dan's made one example here. And I could give you, and he could give you 100 more examples of if you just take micronutrients in a supplemental form, you're introducing the possibility of a whole bunch of products. Some of them are pretty fail-safe and not that big a deal, but others aren't. And if you don't really know what you're doing, when it comes to micronutrients from food, you're probably just fine. You're not going to be into toxicity levels by eating too many oranges or things like that. Well, now when you're taking pharmacologicals, which we call supplements that, right, you're getting them now at dosages that are orders of magnitude higher than you would ever get them in whole foods. And so you're introducing whole cascades of potential issues. Many of them are probably fairly benign, but some aren't. And even benign problems are not going to cut it for people trying to break world records, or at least their own internal physiology, right? They're trying

to maximize their personal physiology. Well, then you need a little bit more precision. And with all the stuff we're talking about, there still is a little bit of unknown, right? The gut microbiome is far from perfect. There's a tremendous amount of garbage in that space. And even something like vitamin D, you just assume you can measure vitamin D. And Dan just talked about how that's not necessarily the best assumption. I'll look at reference ranges for albumin, which Dan talked, it is literally on every blood work panel anyone has ever done, right? Same thing with triglycerides, all these other stuff. They're not perfect. So you really, really, really have to look at things in context with the rest of the things, right? So if we did a blood work and we saw someone's vitamin D was low, and then we looked at their hair analysis and saw, oh, bam,

we're picking up heavy metals in the hair. Now we start making the appropriate action. If we just stopped at the blood work, maybe you needed some vitamin D. Maybe we could just say, hey, get out in the sun more don't take the vitamin d or or maybe vitamin d was the worst possible scenario so just walking around being like okay my d is good vitamin d is good okay creatine is good vitamin c is good our b6 is dan talked about b6 b12 okay cool i'm just going to take this b complex i'm just going to throw it all in the system yeah yeah i actually. Not a good idea. Yeah, I think I'm super curious too because you, like, we've, magnesium is one of my, like, favorite things, I guess you could say,

when it comes to this, like, trouble sleeping, take magnesium, crazy-ass dreams. You're basically just getting high for a couple nights, and you notice changes. But long-term, what's actually going on like yeah night night one through three i had these super vivid dreams deep sleep shows up on my watch i must be doing everything right but how do i know i'm actually getting the right dose of anything besides just like feeling some effects because i got this new drug inside me.

You want to make it even worse? Just take melatonin too. Don't even get a start. Melatonin is, hold on. Help me if I'm relatively right on this because I noticed a lot of things by having a three-year-old when like we give it melatonin, she sleeps for three hours. Next thing you know, she's wide awake and we've got the worst night in the world ahead of us because it doesn't stay in the system long, and now I feel like a terrible parent that I just drugged my kid. And Andy's shaking his head like I should be a child. You've got to be real careful of Melatonin. Dan, can you explain why if he wants to ride Canberra? I'm never doing that again just because of Andy's head shake right there. The disapproval of Andy Galvin.

Yeah. Yeah. That parent. That was the disappointed dad. Quick route to crashing somebody's testosterone. Load him up on melatonin. See what happens. Yeah.

We could get, yeah. Yeah. But yeah, to just kind of recap the the question like how does somebody know once they start taking it and then they start feeling the effects that it's actually the right thing for them versus just having it in their system there and and it being this short-term effect versus a long-term long-term solution to where they're okay don't forget your question you can tell them right now uh one of our more recent melatonin stories. I was already thinking that.

You guys are going to like this one. Sorry to answer your question twice, Andrew. This is gold. So we had a guy recently who is 100 times over the upper end range limit for melatonin. 100 times. And let's remember, melatonin is a hormone. It's not just a supplement. Melatonin is a hormone. It is a hormone structure within the body. And we just recently had a guy whose intake or his measures came back a hundred times over the upper reference range

limit. So like that toxicity data I posted on vitamin D, where some people were literally taking 1.6 million IU of vitamin, yeah, in the millions, and they thought they were taking 1,000. Why can't that happen with melatonin? It absolutely can happen with melatonin. But then to answer your question, you know what it feels like, Anders, when you walk around with eight grams of melatonin in your blood all day? He's walking around sedated all day. Just sedated. And then you wonder why you feel, oh, I'm so sleepy. I need more melatonin.

I'm so sleepy. I don't get good sleep. I'm not getting quality sleep. My hours are fine. I'm not getting quality. No, you're fucking sedated all day. And then you take your caffeine tolerance. It's like taking all the Sudafed.

You're like, wow, I feel like I'm on meth right now. It's the opposite. I took a nutrition class while I'm doing this thing. And, like, there's some pretty big dangers of taking, like, too much of these micronutrients. There was, like, one where a gymnast coach, like, was telling her, you know, telling her athlete to take, I forget. It was one of the Bs. And the girl became almost paralyzed from taking too much. I have to go reference it.

And I'll send it to you guys. But what are some of the dangers of just taking too much of these micronutrients? Well, I mean, it all travels back to kind of how I opened the podcast, right? The question is, why are you taking it? It's why. So like when Anders is saying, how do I know if I'm taking enough vitamin or how am I know if I'm taking enough magnesium? The question still is, why are you taking magnesium? Because are you actually repleting a magnesium need or is there a depletion happening from elsewhere within the physiology? So I think taking any micronutrient from a supplement company

that's not third party tested, there's already a danger in that all by itself because you're placing trust in a company that's done nothing to earn it, nothing at all. And this stuff can absolutely create a toxic effect in your body. But then in a lot of cases, people are well-intentioned, but they just don't know they're operating on a symptom-based level, which is something I just, I can't ever recommend. So the question of why always needs to be at the forefront. And I think whenever you're talking about bigger doses of anything, or especially utilizing utilizing a hormone or even asking, sleep is supposed to be a normal physiological function. It is not supposed to be a chore to fall asleep.

So something's wrong with the physiology. You're not in a deficit of a supplement. It's something where you should ideally be looking at what's going on internally, because you're exhausted. You should be able to sleep at the end of the day. Sleep, we've gone an hour and 20 minutes giving the cliffhanger on testosterone. Can we start that? Because I know sleep is just a massive piece of that. Obesity, strength training, muscle mass, all of those things. And Galpin just alluded to it on the melatonin side of things and overall production. If we were to just start at the top and work our way into the testosterone conversation,

can you kind of kick that off of just what you're looking at when you look at labs and normal ranges? Because you're, for many reasons, it's now all the way down to 200 can, can be considered normal up to 900. Um, yeah. How do you start to just assess, uh, testosterone levels and, and begin that conversation with athletes? Yeah, sure. So I mean, that's a good point, even right away. Like when you look at a reference range, that's enormous. It's a good indication that you should look at the literature to try

and narrow that reference range down yourself to see what information is actually available on this kind of stuff. Because I can tell you, a male with 200 testosterone is going to feel a little different than a male with 900 testosterone. Yet both are considered completely normal. And yet let's also look at it. Let's say we're across a 10 year span and you went from 900, 800, 700, 600, 500, 400. Why is that happening? You're still considered normal. No one's going to ask the question why you've decreased your testosterone by 50% over the last five years. It's because I'm getting older. No, it's not. There is absolutely another answer in there. I actually worked with an NFL Hall of Famer and he was 71 years old. His testosterone came back at 1,00 and he's natural. 1100.

Yeah, 1100. He was 71 and it's 100% natural. So it's absolutely, it's not this age thing. There's always some sort of a root cause going on in there. So when you're looking at labs, you're looking at testosterone synthesis, you have to look at a lot of things. Like if you're going to go back to the steroid metabolization charge all the way back in your endocrinology class, you're going to be looking at saturated fat and LDLs being combined with vitamin B5.

We're going to combine these things to make a cool thing called acetyl-CoA and ultimately allows us make pregnenolone. Pregnenolone can be converted into DHEA, but ultimately to testosterone. Two rate-limiting minerals are zinc and magnesium. So even a lot of people will supplement with DHEA, but if we don't have zinc and magnesium, we're not going to get that optimal conversion over to testosterone. So we need those saturated fats. We need some LDLs. We need B5. We need our zinc and our magnesium for all of those metabolic pathways to be properly taking place. But then we also should ask, why is testosterone even low? Well, cadmium and arsenic have both been demonstrated to depress testosterone. So do you have low testosterone or do you just have an abundance

of metals building up within the body? Cadmium and arsenic have been directly shown to impact testosterone production within the body. So we have beneficial micronutrients contributing to testosterone synthesis. We have heavy metal toxicity that can suppress testosterone synthesis. And then you also have to look at other things too, simply like energy state of the body. Hypocalorism, we can expect some reductions in testosterone. I remember seeing data that even

five days of sleep deprivation reduces testosterone by 15%. So we would have to take sleep into the consideration as well. And then previously I talked at looking at root causes. And this is why when I freaking find a root cause, I'm like, yes, because it's our blueprint to the championship. Because when we are impacting stressors, our environmental, psychological, emotional, physical, or the hidden stressor that I'm identifying in the lab,

stressors create cortisol. Cortisol runs antagonistic with testosterone. So when we eliminate stressors from our physiology, we are reducing glucocorticoids that run antagonistic with testosterone. So when we eliminate stressors from our physiology, we are reducing glucocorticoids that run antagonistic with testosterone, allowing testosterone to better optimize itself. So there's a lot of different pathways we can go, whether it's toxicity, macronutrient availability, or any of the five stressors in order to impact testosterone. And when you get all of those unifying, like Andy talked about before, I think it was before we recorded, I've tripled people's testosterone in a matter of

months. It's something that's absolutely possible. And things can turn around fast. Usually people who don't have a fast turnaround are people who aren't confident. We can't even get into it right now, but the idea of adrenal fatigue is beyond silly nonsense. I've destroyed that elsewhere and I'll happily destroy it again. But that would take about an hour or so. But you can have very fast turnarounds. Like where I was going with this is people have had sepsis. Sepsis, there can be extreme cortisol issues with sepsis, but people who survive it, sepsis, by the way, is death pet stuff. So people who are unfamiliar, if you survive it and you get out of the hospital, there's direct data on this, that cortisol secretion goes from absolutely zero back to totally normal in two weeks. So some people will say like,

oh, your adrenals is going to take six to 12 months of healing and you'll have to take these herbs and you're going to have to do Tai Chi. And then we'll do yoga at the same time and we'll call it tea yoga. And it's just, there's a lot of silly things that end up happening, but those, your body is a regeneration machine, basically except the kidneys. But a lot of things regenerate incredibly quickly. But just a good example, doing, if you found the root cause, because the root cause, a lot of times the root cause writes my program for me, because when I find that root cause, now I've got a blueprint to work forward from. Yeah. What do you want to tie that all together for you? Like a really super tangible example of this. If you found any number of, Danny could give an example if you want, but any number of things going on in the gut, right? And again, we need to acknowledge that

you can't take any just $100 poop sample thing and try to figure out what's going on. There's a lot of nonsense in the field of gut diagnostics and there's a tremendous amount to learn, a tremendous amount. So we're going to come back and refine this stuff as we go. Having said that, there's enough literature in this area where you can see some major red flags that stand out. Some of them in particular can help you identify things like this. So Dan just went through this whole cascade of what it means to have testosterone and why it's not optimized. Okay. Well, if you have, say, a vitamin B deficiency, say B6, and we've actually seen this one specifically a number of times, you don't know if it's a combination or if it's caused by lack of consumption of B vitamins.

So the wrong food choices, even if you're eating their macros and calories and you're eating whole real foods, et cetera, if you're not getting enough of and calories and you're eating whole real foods, et cetera, if you're not getting enough of the B vitamins in your diet, or if it's an issue of not absorbing that. And the reason the gut is important is because certain things that we can find in gut at like crazy cuckoo levels can directly be involved in reduction of B vitamin absorption. And so this is why these lab diagnostics are so important because we can say, hey, your gut looks okay, but let's look at your food. Okay, you're not eating foods that are high in B vitamins. This is what's causing those problems. And then follow Dan's last explanation

for why that all of a sudden led to your testosterone below. And this is why he's saying we can see these pretty miraculous improvements in a couple of months in testosterone because if we go in and find, hey, this is all because you had this one little yeast overgrowth or this small opportunistic bacterial overgrowth. Once we calm that down, all of a sudden you can triple, quadruple, like huge X, your B-absorption going on in your stomach. And then as a result, testosterone cortisol fixes itself out. So we never use TRT. We don't use, not a lot of people are against it, but for what we do, most of our athletes can't take us out legal.

Well, none of them really can. Well, so, but that's how you can get these huge increases in whatever, pick your dependent variable by simply finding root cause. And the root cause is often the gut, and they'll not always, but that's why we mean, like, all this stuff matters. You simply can't just do a blood draw and say, oh, your testosterone is low, get on TRT.

Maybe. But there's a better answer here for most people. Yeah. I feel like any time you start to just take something exogenous like that and not looking at sleep and the big rocks first. You really are just, I don't know what the long-term effects are of that, but it's going to be a never-ending process where you just have to keep upping dosage and never actually looking in the mirror going,

well, you need to sleep better. We need to eat better. We need to eliminate body fat better. How does body fat actually play into it? Because the people that are listening to this show, the people that we're working with, like we're not taking them from normal levels to superhuman feats of strength going to get into an octagon. It's somebody that needs to lose 40 pounds and like can't get out of bed in the morning without feeling like crap. Like that's the levels that I feel like a very natural path of getting, eating better body fat sleep, um, and, and moving the big

rocks just to get to a body fat that allows it. But, uh, everything that we read right now, um, it, it really points to obesity and having that extra 40 pounds of body fat in your belly specifically being just one of the leading indicators of things are just out of whack. Sure. I mean, in respect to testosterone for being overweight, there's so many other pathways you can go there as well. Like when your enzyme aromatase exists in adipose tissue. So you're going to be converting more testosterone into estrogen simply by being overweight. If you're overweight too, you may be at risk for sleep apnea. You impact sleep quality, you're going to have lower testosterone from that rate as well.

We also know that exercise stimulates testosterone levels. But if you're overweight, you're probably more sedentary. So less exercise is going to impact less testosterone. There's a lot of routes that you can take there. Being overweight as well is going to result in blood sugar issues, which is going to result in more oxidative stress, which lowers testosterone. So you mentioned sleep apnea. I would love to dig into that because when I think about sleep apnea and my kind of like rationale of what's going on and the fact that you're kind of like choking in the middle of your sleep on never actually get into a deep breathing pattern

to go parasympathetic at any state over a 24-hour period. So how the hell are you going to de-stress your body when the eight-hour chunk in your night, you're basically in the MMA cage with Doug over there and he's choking you out all night long? Squeezing it, letting it off. Yeah. Squeezing it, letting it off. Nope. You can live again. But I'd love to dig into

how breathing and the sleep apnea thing because it's a really interesting thing that I don't think many people think about. Yeah, I mean sleep apnea, I it's a really interesting thing that I don't think many people think about. Yeah. I mean, sleep apnea, I believe I've seen research and correct me if I'm wrong. It's when the neck exceeds 42 centimeters that you're at a dramatically increased risk for sleep apnea. And when you have sleep apnea, you're going to have poor sleep quality. So instead of, just directing it to apnea, you can look at data on poor sleep quality. We've seen a lot of things. We've seen increases in ghrelin, which increases your cravings throughout the day.

We've also seen reductions in leptin, which directly reduces satiety. So now you're looking at somebody who has more cravings and less satiety, even from the same caloric intake. We saw actually a great study out of the University of Chicago looking at the, it was macronutrient expenditure based on their BMR and how that impacted a deficit. And what was seen, and you guys are probably have seen this. It was an enormous study that came out from the University of Chicago, how people, they were given, there's two groups. There's a group of eight and a half hours sleep per night's a group of eight and a half hours sleep per night and a group of five and a half hours sleep per night. And the group that slept

five and a half hours of sleep per night lost 50% more muscle in a deficit and also lost 50% less fat. It was due to their respiratory exchange ratio. They were preferentially burning both muscle and fat in their deficit, whereas the group that slept eight and a half hours per night, it was something like an 80-20, I believe, where they were losing 80% body fat and only 20% lean mass because neither group was resistance trained. But one was 50-50, the other was 80-20 with only a difference of three hours in sleep per night. That's absolutely huge. And the real kicker is that metabolism didn't actually slow down in that study. So the group that only slept five and a half hours per night, their metabolic rate actually didn't decrease. So they just ended up losing more muscle because of the respiratory exchange ratio. Oh, cool.

It's actually like, I'm like, I'm like walking through that in my brain. I wasn't ready for you to end right there. Well, I actually, I actually kind of paused because Travis would look like he was looking it up. Well, it happens. Yeah.

Let the internet catch up to you talking. Go on. If you Google university of Chicago, eight and a half. Did you? Eight and a half versus five and a half. Yeah. You'll find it. So I'm actually, the part about metabolic rate not being affected, but muscle mass decreasing

is really interesting on that. Can you dig into that a little bit? I think that it's just a bad situation. That sounds terrible, right? is really interesting on that. Can you dig into that a little bit? I think that it's just a bad situation. That sounds terrible, right? You're burning the same amount of calories per day from your BMR, but now more than- It's overly frotting. Because yeah, the respiratory exchange ratio created a differentiation in where your fuel sources was coming from. So that was a huge landmark study. So that, in addition with the ghrelin and leptin differences from sleep apnea, the reduction

in testosterone that you'd see, and then even getting into aspects of neurotransmitter availability from being in a poor sleep. It doesn't matter how much B6 and tyrosine you have, your dopamine production is going to be poor as hell if you're not sleeping at all throughout the night. So hormonally and neurotransmitter wise, you're just going to be a mess. It's never going to work in your favor. I'd love for you and Andy to dig into this. When you have fighters specifically going into such a caloric deficit to make weight, how does that affect testosterone over preparing and getting fighters ready? And this relates to the average person on just losing weight in general. You guys are taking it to the extreme, but how are you guys able to kind of maintain testosterone levels if you are, while you've got people having such rapid changes and fluctuations in their weight to, to make the cut and then to get them prepared for the fight in the next, you know, day or two?

Sure. So you want me to tackle that one first, Andy? Sure. Okay, cool. So I actually don't see reductions in testosterone. I really don't. The research that I've seen is largely, you're going to see a lot of testosterone reductions after a 6% body fat or lower. And this is measured on something like a DEXA scan, I believe it was the data. So this is where if you're 6% on DEXA, you're absolutely shredded.

That's shredded's shredded that includes organ fat that's like all of it like yeah that's absolutely everything so yeah six percent is it's it's pretty much three percent yeah it's pretty much three percent body fat because it would include the three percent of essential fat so it's essentially three percent subcutaneous fat so this you would have to get to extremely low levels to even see reductions in testosterone. But one thing that fighters kind of naturally do intuitively, but I do intentionally is I actually want a fighter to enter training camp at about 80%. Because it gives us an opportunity to peak performance when they enter at 100%. They're not going to maintain 100% for

10 weeks, it's not going to happen. That's when you see overtraining symptoms start to kick in. You're going to see someone's going to get flu symptoms or catch a cold. There's so many fighters who fall ill prior to fighting, and that's because they went way too hard, way too soon. So I'll have an athlete actually enter camp at about 80%, and then we're actually getting healthier and in more shape as the camp goes on. So their testosterone is actually increasing rather than decreasing during this time. And then we don't actually get absolutely shred dice city. And I think the only reduction you would possibly see is an expected acute reduction during the

weight cut process. That acute variation, honestly, I've never even measured it because I think it would be obviously reduced and would play into the athlete's psychology. I don't want to go into the cage with low testosterone, so I'm not even going to fucking measure it. It's not even going to be a thing. Sean O'Malley, he's a guy I'm working with right now. Absolutely shredded. Always has high testosterone. Always. And that's with a pretty heavy weight cut too, going all the way down to 135. So it's just something where if you don't start crazy hard, and then obviously you have

your calories, macros, micros properly in check, and you have an actual phasic progression to your weight cut strategy, low testosterone is not something you should ever struggle with. Yeah. So two ways to answer that for you. But you have two things to think about. You have the training camp and then you have the final week. So the final week is easy because everything is shitty that week. You have water cut, you've got calories, the fight is coming, press, travel, stressors, right? But if you actually pay attention, some people will try to scare you on the internet and they'll say things like one night of low sleep will reduce testosterone by 220. That's all horseshit. It's completely out of

context. It's not wrong, but it's way out of context. So I say that to say that the loss of testosterone the week of the fight is probably true, but it has no meaningful physiological effect. We see no reductions in cognitive function, really no reduction in motor skill or control with a single night of poor sleep. That's just simply not going to happen. What you're going to need to see is days or weeks of reduced sleep quality for it to actually start to really matter. So if you have one night, like you had a porn at a sleep last night, Anders, if you fought today, you would be just fine.

Like you'd be sleepy throughout the day if you're like working on your computer. But if you were competing today, it wouldn't matter at all. And we've seen this. You have to have that, right? Most athletes don't sleep before the night. Especially before a fight.

The weight cut nights and all this stuff, right? So we'll tease that part out because you will certainly see a drop in testosterone the week of the fight, but it doesn't matter. So the better answer though is the camp question. So you'd be surprised to know, but the way that you handle it is this number one, you shouldn't have that much of a drop in body weight through the course of

fight camp. If you've come into fight camp way over your marks, so you're 20% over your body or your competing weight, then we're going to have testosterone problems because we're going to have to be losing three, four, five pounds a week. If you lose things appropriately, and we have metrics numbers for all this stuff, then you will not see a drop of testosterone throughout even though you're losing 1% per week, something like that. So number one, starting off camp in a reasonable level of fitness and a reasonable body weight, it eliminates that problem almost entirely.

Number two, the vast majority of fighters I've been around have no periodization plan whatsoever for their fight camp. And you're talking about fight camps are typically 8 to 12 weeks. So they simply train hard, and they try to train harder every week, and then when they get really tired, they'll take a day or two off. We don't do it that way. We approach it almost exactly like you would a power lifter or a weight lifter, and we have planned deloads both within the week,

outside of the week, throughout the entire camp. And when you do that, I'm telling you, like they walk into fight week super fresh. They're not just crawling into fight camp. They feel fucking incredible. Yeah, and the vast majority just simply don't do that. So yeah, Dan nailed it. Like you see constantly they get a cold the week before the fight.

They get super shitty after lands. You see all kinds get a cold the week before the fight. They get super shitty after weigh-ins. You see all kinds of energy just crashes. Caloric deficit. Well, not really. Actually, caloric deficit is the same as it's been for the last six weeks. You're feeling trashed because you're getting close to competition. We know what happens when you sort of back off epinephrine in the presence of extreme stress over a long time.

Once the adrenaline goes away, because the immune system's been compromised for so long, all of a sudden, boom. It just takes a break, basically. And then you get sick and you have all these problems, energy crashes, your mood, all this stuff just boom. That's an idiotic plan. So if you even have a semblance of understanding

how long do we have here, when are we going to deload, how is the deload going to look like, how are we going to build the camp so it's basic, so it progresses over time, we're not just going as hard as we can every week and nonsensical stuff, you do that, testosterone is going to be just fine. Andy, can I ask you, do you guys look at monotony and strain, chronic workloads, effect sizes? Do you look at that in your programming? Yes, effect sizes. Do you look at that in your programming?

Yes, I do. It's incredibly difficult because we can't put metrics on training. It's tough because you're already tasked with punching someone in the face. It's really difficult. You can use heart rate. GPS, of course, is out of question.

You can't count reps in volume low. That doesn't count. You can use heart rate gps of course is out of question yeah you can't count reps and like volume low that that doesn't count um you can use heart rate but that's a really crappy indicator as well because if you did intervals for 40 minutes 30 uh and 30 off or whatever you're gonna do that ain't the same as just sparring for 30 minutes even if your heart rate was the same what about rpe did you get kicked no our rpe is fine but um certain things feel harder so if you're a striker and you go to wrestling practice it feels harder than a wrestler go to wrestling practice and the opposite right um depending on the the partner you with that day did you have other media stuff like so like honestly it's the vast majority time to like unless you're going to every single workout the the coaches are going to have to

do this for you right and you like it ends up being we've tried this stuff so when you use your works well then my next question is like when you say you progress it like you do um like we would power the thing like how do you do it yeah so you have an idea of you're watching body weight all the time right so you know what's happening food wise going into it you have we have uh subjective markers that they're taking every day just how do you feel this types of things um once you've gone through one camp so i will go and before when i first start working with fighter i will go and watch every one of their practices with all the different coaches and then i I internally calibrate, right? So when you're working with coach Dan today in boxing,

how hard is it? Oh, Dan, Dan, oh, this is a seven out of 10 with coach Dan. Well, I know that's a four out of 10 because coach Dan's not really, doesn't go crazy, but I know a five out of 10 from Anders is like, okay, that's a really like nine out of 10. Got it. So then I calibrate back that way. I watch video, show me your sparring today, things like that. Right. And so I watch video. Show me you're sparring today. Things like that, right? And so I get a sense of what they're doing. So we use, I have the algorithm I use as a combination of all this.

And we get to that and then say, okay, great. And then you plan. You let them know ahead of time. And it tends to work out pretty well. And you could, that's what we call predictive pregnancy. It's like, I can generally be like, all right, you're going to be pregnant

in about three weeks. So when you say like, they say Coach Dan was at five, but you know it's because they enjoy like punching. Well, enjoy or like Coach Dan thinks it was five out of 10 because he's old and he's unrealistic.

And no, that was like a seven out of 10. Like that's a, a yeah like a super easy practice today we only did 12 rounds of spark you're like oh okay like all right cool because back in 1988 when i wrestled in Nebraska we would do 15 so we only had 12 today so it's not that you're like okay all right got it like so you have to calibrate between what they're saying so my next question because we all know that coaches are like, they don't want to be told what to do. What do you do?

Just give, here's my suggestions on how to periodize their training. Me? Yeah, I tell them what to do. There's no suggestions. How do you tell this out? So you're in total control of the whole thing? A hundred percent. Oh,

because you would have to be, to do what you're saying, you'd have to be, because this coach, if they're in control, they're going to tell you to fuck off. Right. And so then I would say would say i'm not doing i'm not wasting my time doing this to worry ah yeah that's the point i'm gonna make your suggestion is they're not gonna listen to a list of points so either we're all on the same page or we're not there has to be somebody that is like you know the maestro yeah otherwise i leave that up to

the athlete when we're super clear like is this the role you want me to play? If not, like, fine. I don't care. Like, I'm not leaving or quitting a team. I'm just... I'm not going to waste my time going through this whole damn process.

Because no one's going to do it. If no one's going to follow it. Do you roughly do this or not? Yes, you do. Cool. Well, then great. I'll do it. And then there's just no questions.

And typically, the athlete will regulate that too, right? So if I tell... If you're the fighter, Travis, and you're going to coach Dan and I told you and Dan, like, hey, today's a green day. Stay in green.

And Dan's like, oh, let's go. Let's go. Like, Travis, you're in fighter, Travis, and you're going to coach Dan, and I told you and Dan, like, hey, today's a green day. Stay in green. And Dan's like, oh, let's go, let's go. Like, Travis, you're in charge. Speak up. You're the fucking fighter. You're the CEO. If you don't speak up, like we've told Dan 28 times, he's not going to listen. If you don't fire him or tell him what to do, like,

then I'm not doing the same. There's just no room for error here. It's communication. Like, was see exactly how you feel. There's just no room for error here. It's communication. Was it unclear the directions? No. Okay, then did you directly go against what the fighter wants? Did you do that as a coach? You directly went against what they said.

Either you don't believe us or you don't care what they say. And so it's like there's just no more options. So then my next thing would be like if you can put values, you know, green, red, whatever your values are, I feel like then even like I bet you it's measurable, even though it'd have to be like somewhat subjective based on your observations. But that's what everybody needs. That's why that would traverse so many people from bombing. Yeah.

Yeah. You have to have some, something like that. And then there's always the plan. Then there's those what happens. You have to adjust and all that, but you have to have at least a, a North star. Like there has to be something you're trying to get um and then if not you get up the problem we've actually seen a theta uh on this just yesterday got published um you end up being the classic what they used to call the american problem which is you end up having a bunch of these medium days

right the hard days don't get hard enough because you're pre-fatigue so you feel shitty about them so that you don't do enough the next day. So the light days aren't light enough and you end up having this waving, small undulation line of basically medium trainings with very small blips, which is not what you need to optimize physiological adaptation. You need huge insults that are not chronic,

very short, very large insults, then recovery, very large insults, recovery. That's how you induce adaptation, not just like constant stress overload. That's when you run into problems, right? So we see this all the time with cortisol, right? So people think cortisol is negative and it's obviously very, very, very beneficial and positive and required. So a smashing huge increase in cortisol is actually a very good thing, but a slight increase in cortisol consistently over time is where thing, but a slight increase in cortisol

consistently over time is where we have problems. The same thing with inflammation, oxidative stress, that can go over and over on these things, epinephrine. So we need to control that. If you do that, then you get better adaptations and you don't feel run down. The other quick question about blood work again, when you have someone in a fight camp, one of the big problems with blood work, I feel like it's like, it's kind of like a balance sheet. It's like, it's just a snapshot. It's a moment in time. It's not really telling the whole story. Like you were talking about earlier, if your testosterone goes from 900, 800, 700, 600, like you can't just see that if you do

blood work, you know, very infrequently. Do you ever think there's going to be a point where we kind of have like a, kind of like continuous glucose monitored uh works where we have that for the entire um spectrum of metabolites that you could possibly have where you have you have like a rolling graph on your phone of your testosterone every minute of the day which is constantly tracking you have like you have like a real digital dashboard of exactly what's going on with your physiology. Do you guys feel like that's possible in the future? I definitely think it's possible. I think biotechnology is a huge avenue for a lot of people to make a lot of money and us to gain a lot of data. But I think it's a sports psychology nightmare to see the peaks and valleys of certain things. So although it may be valuable for the informed coach, I think for the athlete to be in the know about that would mess up their mind.

Like a motto I have in coaching is hard on me, easy on them. I want to provide a protocol that they can execute consistently that will not mess with their psychology at all. Don't let them see it. Yeah, exactly. So for the informed coach, that's the thing. You got to be informed and confident because there's going to be peaks and valleys.

That's the natural ebb and flow of training. And if you're a non-confident coach, then you're going to want to change the protocol every time something drops. And there is a negative feedback loop and an adaptive process. And that happens with everything. So I think it's possible, and I think it would be great for research and informed coaches,

but I think it would be bad for poorly informed coaches and athletes, psychologists. Yeah, I know the answer to that, Doug. So the answer is yes, actually, but it won't be coming from things like a CGM, so it won't be stuck in your arm. It'll be coming from... I can't say anything now, but I know these things actually are on the way. I love being your friend. Why the hell don't I know about it yet?

I can't tell you about any of this stuff. You don't listen to California, man. Yeah, you just don't tell the Canadian. Who cares, right? I warned you that you signed up with me. Thank you. There are things in play here, so I know that this is not at the level that we can do

with all of our other stuff yet, but this is not sci-fi for sure. And I know many of these are already possible. It's just being able to put it in the system is the thing right now, which is we know the answer to that. It's just a matter of buildup. I think a problem a lot of coaches have is like, you know,

there are times for like a person to feel bad. I mean, I purposely programmed them. They should feel like shit. The key is like, is are is their rpe equal to my intent that's the big question you know if they're always feeling good you've messed up like yeah nothing is gonna happen for fun sake too uh doug we can actually do this entire thing with sleep as well so we can get oh yeah like you won't have to do anything there'll be no ring attached to nothing else you can just go to sleep and wake up

and we'll have a full sleep study performed on you with more detail than you, 100x more than you'd ever get from a dumb war ring. So that's something to go to as well. These technologies are real? Come back and do a whole show on that. Yeah, we're not, this is not. Probably sooner than you think.

You've mentioned confidence a couple times, and the first time it came up was when we first started bringing up testosterone. How does confidence and just the, you know, there's a lot of, maybe not a lot, but there is research. I think Gad said, Doug and I found a study that he put out on just like driving a crappy car versus a really nice car or walking in and having like the social status attached and then in testing testosterone levels. I would imagine there's some sort of metrics and how you're coaching athletes and preparing

for events that really makes a difference when they show up on game day. Yeah, for sure. I think confidence is absolutely key, right? And I'm just going to speak from experience because I like to stay in my own lane. I'm the nutritional and biochemistry guy. There's people out there that know way more about sports psychology than me. So I'm just going to speak from practical coaching experience here. I think the difference between cockiness and confidence is preparation. When you have properly prepared for an event, you have earned the right to be confident. And there's anxiety out there. And anxiety is not always a bad thing. If it's endogenous anxiety, then that's biochemical. And that is something

that can be altered with prescriptions or nutrition or whatever it's goingogenous anxiety, then that's biochemical. And that is something that can be altered with prescriptions or nutrition or whatever it's going to be. But exogenous anxiety, usually we deserve it. If I have anxiety before a fight, well, why do I have anxiety? Well, I didn't actually have a periodized fight camp plan. I didn't actually follow my diet the entire fight camp. I didn't take any deloads. I didn't buy any of the supplements. I only trained when I felt like it. I deserve that anxiety. I don't deserve confidence when I step into the octagon and that's happened. However, with proper preparation, I did my workouts. I did my mobility sessions. I made sure I got a great sleep every night. I followed my diet exactly. I made sure I got a great sleep every night.

I followed my diet exactly. I've earned the right to be confident. Somebody who is cocky, they just, that's a false confidence without preparation. We know what happens to cocky people when they meet confident people. I'm like, you know, you got the Irish MMA guy. I mean, he's always cocky. And he's normally pretty darn good. I would say he's confident. I would say that that's a true confidence, actually.

I think that there's a fine line between your view of confidence and cockiness. I agree. I think he's confident. And the stuff that he does is rehearsed. I think that those lines, that's a part of the confidence. That's a part of showmanship. I think he actually prepared that shit talk because he's prepared to be confident. So I think it goes into that same. Most people would disagree with you, but I agree.

Like, you know, I've never met a person who was a world champion at anything when that when you spoke with them they would not in europe probably in most people's mind come off as cocky like you know when you met me when i was a world champion if you'd asked me am i going to win i would say of course you know but like you know most people say that's cock cocky what do you want me saying i'm not you know so i mean yeah when you're prepared, you have that. You've earned that right. What are you supposed to say? Exactly.

I'm about to win. I'm ready. I'm better than this guy. Yeah. I feel like we could do another hour. We're going to have both you guys back on. I feel like we're oddly two hours in and still just getting started, which means

we nailed it. Dan, can you tell people where they can find you, how they learn more and everything you have going on? Yeah. So basically just my main hub really is at Dan Garner Nutrition on Instagram. That's the main spot to find me. I post content here and there, like Andy was talking about with the vitamin D research and stuff like that. So I'll do posts here and there. If you see like an evidence-based meathead, you're in the right spot. I'll throw some studies at you, but I'm probably going to throw a couple of poses at you in between studies. That's a lot of credibility. Yeah, Dan Garner Nutrition on Instagram.

Yeah, that's the best place and easiest place to find me. Andy Galpin. Yes. Do you want to tell the people? Oh, yeah. He's paying attention, guys. What do you want? That's how all your students answer questions in hour two of the lecture, too, I bet. Like, Anders, huh?

Uh-uh. I haven't been paying attention at all. Yeah, Instagram and Twitter, Dr. Andy Galpin, D-R-A-N-D-Y Galpin are the fastest way. Beautiful. Coach Travis Smash. Go follow Andy Galpin. Go follow me. Dan.

If you want to do nasty performances, go to Instagram. Anybody that listens to this show already follows all of us. Doug Larson. I'm on Instagram. Doug Larson. Dan, Andy, this was one of my favorite shows we've done in a long time, dude. I could totally parrot what Anders was saying.

We could just keep going. I have more questions and I want to hear more, so we'll do round two. Let's do round two whenever you guys want. Please. I've got so many notes. Maybe let's coordinate a whole bunch of specific questions or maybe take some from the audience too,

based on this time. And then that way we can make sure we get to some direct ones and dan go out from all oh now that i know dan way more prepared for next time yeah i actually i want the whole audience and both of you guys to know uh when i send andy galpin a text and i say who is the best in the world that you know in this specific thing, I absolutely think about that show more than I think about every other show that we do, and we're putting out a ton of content.

I appreciate you guys, and by far, I'm on my game more in these shows, and I appreciate you guys just bringing that out of me and all of us all at the same time. So, Galpin, I know that this show means a lot to you from being a part of it for so long. I appreciate you putting us in touch with Dan. And I feel like these are the days that I'm like, man, we are in this microphone. So I appreciate you guys.

I am Anders Varner at Anders Varner. And we are Barbell Shrugged to Barbell underscore Shrugged. And make sure you go to rapidhealthreport.com. That is where Dan Garner and Dr. Andy Galvin are doing a free lab lifestyle and performance analysis. And you can access that free report

over at rapidhealthreport.com. Friends, we'll see you guys next week.