Barbell Shrugged - The 80/20 Nutrition Protocol and Why You Should Go All in On Reaching Your Goals - Barbell Shrugged w/ Anders Varner, Doug Larson, and Travis Mash — Barbell Shrugged #433

Episode Date: January 8, 2020

The 80/20 Nutrition protocol is the most overused saying in nutrition. It works, but you have to earn it, understand the mechanics of macros, and then you can grow into an 80/20 protocol, not start there.   Step 1: Find maintenance calories. Step 2: Find the minimum amount of protein you need to build muscle. Step 3: Find the minimum amount of carbohydrate you need to sustain energy Step 4: Find minimum amount of fat you need for function, muscle repair, and energy. Step 5: Fill in the remaining calories with whatever you want without constantly going over maintainance.   You have to earn an 80/20 lifestyle, not start there. What is the 80/20 nutrition protocol. Why most people fail using it. Why you need to commit in order to be successful The goal is to go all in and own your decisions Why people struggle betting on themselves And more…   Anders Varner on Instagram Doug Larson on Instagram Travis Mash on Instagram   TRAINING PROGRAMS One Ton Strong - 8 Weeks to PR your snatch, clean, jerk, squat, deadlift, and bench press 20 REP BACK SQUAT PROGRAM - Giant Legs and a Barrell Core One Ton Challenge  8 Week Snatch Cycle - 8 Weeks to PR you Snatch Aerobic Monster - 12 week conditioning, long metcons, and pacing strategy   Please Support Our Sponsors “Save $20 on High Quality Sleep Aid at Momentous livemomentous.com/shrugged us code “SHRUGGED20” at checkout.   US Air Force Special Operations - http://airforce.com/specialops   Organifi - Save 20% using code: “Shrugged” at organifi.com/shrugged   ---------------------------------------------------------------- Show notes at: http://www.shruggedcollective.com/bbs-tmash ----------------------------------------------------------------   ► Subscribe to Barbell Shrugged's Channel Here ► Subscribe to Shrugged Collective's Channel Here http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Shrugged Collective is a network of fitness, health and performance shows that help people achieve their physical and mental health goals.  Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first Barbell Shrugged podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast. Find Shrugged Collective and their flagship show Barbell Shrugged here: SUBSCRIBE ON ITUNES ► http://bit.ly/ShruggedCollectiveiTunes WEBSITE ► https://www.ShruggedCollective.com INSTAGRAM ► https://instagram.com/shruggedcollective FACEBOOK ► https://facebook.com/barbellshruggedpodcast TWITTER ► http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged

Today, we're going to learn how to eat. Not too long ago, I made an Instagram post about the 80-20 nutrition protocol and how you're probably not going to have success. That is the first nutrition protocol that you are going to follow in your life. Before we get into the show today, we have to talk about the 80-20 nutrition protocol and how to properly do it. It's not the 80-20 nutrition protocol that is the problem. It is the stage which you find the 80-20 nutrition protocol that is going to cause you all the

problems. You see, the people that are on social media or the people that are writing articles or the people that are telling you to follow the 80-20 nutrition protocol have been tracking their macros and studying nutrition their entire lives or the better part of five to ten years to the point where they become influential and the way that they do this is they start out trying to have a better relationship with food they find a diet and they take it all the way to the end. It could be macros. It could be paleo. It could be keto. It could be any entry point into the nutrition world that gives them a handle on how to eat better.

And what happens is they take it as far as they can. And then they stop seeing results. They plateau just like all of us. You get to a point where there's a law of diminishing returns where you just eat. Eating another chicken breast doesn't make a difference. What they do is they find another thing. So they maintain their 100% paleo-ness, but then they add on macros. So now they're eating perfect paleo and they're tracking all of their macros to make sure they have the perfect amount of protein, carbs, and fat every single day added up directly to a perfect amount of macronutrients for maintenance to remain where they're at, to be in a caloric deficit, to lose weight, or to gain muscle.

They go into a caloric surplus. This is all very basic stuff for somebody that has been in a nutrition world for a very long time. And then once they plateau on their caloric intake, they're now paleo, they're eating perfect quality, they're eating perfect macros for their goal, and then they start to get into really obscure things like gluten. They start to get into milk or they start to get it or lactose. Some people have an issue with that or they start to get into really off the beat things like the carnivore diet or the super keto thing. And they just get so far down a rabbit hole that they start to go crazy. And what they do is they back it up a little bit. So the end of their spectrum, because they've been

practicing nutrition for so long, is so deep into the woods that each and every single tiny little change they make doesn't actually make much of a difference. And what they tell you, once they back their lives down from a less crazy end of the spectrum, they go to about an 80-20 thing. But the difference between their spectrum of 80-20 is significantly different than the person that they are talking to or you who's reading the information online. You probably are not going to the edge, to the extreme on the nutrition side. What you are doing is eating already at an 80-20 and you're looking to tighten things up.

So what you need to do is be significantly more on the side of 100% in order to see the results, to take things to the edge at first so that you can then back them down. Starting at an 80-20 profile is very, very long, slow progression. And because that 80-20 thing is such a rough number where you don't actually understand maintenance calories, caloric deficits, caloric surplus, you don't have that great relationship with food, it's going to be very hard to actually reach your goals. And this is the part that frustrates me with the social media world and how influencers approach the nutrition conversation.

Isn't 80-20 diet the best way to go about living the rest of your life? Absolutely. But only if you have earned it. And the only way to earn it is to truly learn about nutrition. You need to understand what your maintenance calories are. Typically, that is going to be your body weight, your lean body mass times a multiple of somewhere in the 13 to 15 range. That's going to be your maintenance calories. Then you need to find the amount of protein that you can have in your life or that you need on a daily basis, which is typically 0.7 times the lean body mass that you have. That's how many grams of protein you need in a day to ensure that you're not losing muscle mass.

How you use carbohydrates and fats to get to your caloric maintenance is typically up to you. I personally think that a 40-30-30 split is a very manageable way. If you get into MyFitnessPal, learn how to track your foods, learn how to reach your foods, learn how to reach your

maintenance calories, play with being in a caloric deficit. See how you feel. See how your weight changes. Play with being in a caloric surplus. Go on a weightlifting program. Get stronger. Understand how adding weight, adding muscle matters and how nutrition influences that. Six months, eight months, maybe a year down the road. Then you can start to back that down a little bit because you'll start to hit the law of diminishing returns in which no matter if you go more obscene paleo and more strict keto, more strict, more strict, it just doesn't add up to having a healthy life. You start to go crazy inside your brain. It doesn't mean that you have a disorder.

It just means that you're kind of normal. It means that you've gone too far. You need to back it up a little bit. The 80-20 nutrition protocol is a great way to live the majority of your life. If I were to work with you and we have programs in which we are working with people on nutrition for these specific things. I would tell you that it's very important at least three months a year to track your nutrition. I would track the caloric intake against where you're at on a fitness, BMR, basal metabolic rate, like daily activity. How much are you doing? Find your caloric maintenance or your maintenance calories. I would get very comfortable eating at maintenance calories. And then I would back it down a little bit, lose a little bit of weight,

see how you feel, find the right body weight. I would also go in a caloric surplus. I would try to gain some muscle because gaining muscle is fun. But most of the time we want to be at maintenance calories. You don't have to track this because what's going to happen is your body is going to become comfortable at that level of calories. And then you don't have to for the remaining nine months of the year, really worry about it. But we want to have at least three months where you're very strict. This way, you get comfortable having a good relationship with food, understanding caloric intake and how it relates to health, longevity, and body composition, the way that you look, aesthetics. Maybe you want some abs. Everybody

does. But what we see on the internet and what we see from influencers is a tiny little piece of their life without them telling you what they've been up to for the last 10 years and how they got to this point and if you are really looking for programs please head over to shrugcollective.com forward slash store we have three programs in there. We have courses on nutrition. Everything you need to know.. He has written a muscle building nutrition template. We've got barbell shredded in there. That's a fat loss nutrition template. And we've got a course on nutrition called Nutrition for Weightlifters. Using the code SHRUGGED this week is going to save you 10% on those courses.

So get over to shruggedcollective.com forward slash shrugged or forward slash store and use the coupon code shrugged. This has been the longest intro because what you're about to hear is me disagreeing with a lot of the nutrition community. And I want you to go all in. I want you to reach your goals. I want you to be educated on nutrition. It matters to me. I do this for a living because I want you to get results. And in order to do that, you have to understand what nutrition is and have a positive relationship with food. Please enjoy the show. Get over to shrugcollective.com forward slash store.

Use the code shrug to save 10% on their nutrition courses. It's live this week. Enjoy the show. Welcome to Barbell Shrugged. I'm Anders Varner, Doug Larson, Coach Travis Mash. We haven't even left. I can't say we're back. We are back.

It's been two months, three months. We're at Mash League Performance. Dude, Louisville, North Carolina. Who knew all the strong kids were moving to Louisville? Yeah, it's crazy. I love when you say Winston-Salem because it's not really Winston-Salem. No, because no one knows Louisville. I can see. As you were saying, I was like, where the fuck is Louisville?

I actually, every time we put on Louisville into the GPS or, like, put it here, it's like, Louisville, North Carolina. I just envision, like, one day there being a 60 minutes episode about you creating all these freak kid athletes that go on to win gold medals. In the middle of nowhere. Yeah, and Travis matches life. This intro scene is like

this drone footage of Louisville. It's just gorgeous fall, autumn leaves everywhere. Then they hone in on this place called lean fitness. And like, then they get into the back and it's just, it's magically smashing it. Yo, by the way,

how cool is it now that that social media Instagram is so prominent, prevalent that, you know, 10 years when, when Morgan's a world champion, you can, you can scroll back on his Instagram to when he was like 13, 14, 15 and like watch all of this training. on his Instagram to when he was like 13, 14, 15, and like watch all of his training. You get to see the whole training progression for the last 10 or 12 years leading up to a world champion.

You should have seen. I made a video. I was on vacation and got bored. And so I made this video of Morgan from when he started with me. And I literally put all his major PRs in this video from like the beginning until now. It was cool to see the progression. Because, you know, people are always talking junk.

So it was my way of saying, shut your mouth. Because, you know, they're like, oh, Coach Maddox doesn't worry about technique. I'm like, man. Who says that? People are always just saying stuff, you know, just Reddit, whatever. And I'm like, watch the video. Shut your mouth. You know, like, he goes from being, you know, a normal nine-year-old kid to, like, his movement is beautiful.

You know, like, it's hard to say anything bad about him. Yeah. And so it was my favorite video I ever made. It was my way of saying, shut your mouth. Shut the – I got this. I put that 500-pound back squat up, and the person that wrote this was 100% joking. But I know you get these comments all the time.

It was like, I feel like that kid's been 16 for the last three years. I saw that. How nice. How nice. I was like, I know. I think when he was 14, he was still 16, but I'm not really. He's literally been 16 one month, and you're already saying it. You're already saying it.

Well, it's so unbelievable watching the kid squat five, front squat 500 as a 16-year-old. It's insane. You want to not believe it. It's like the opposite of a conspiracy theory where you really want to believe the government is conspiring against you in these big, long – We didn't go to the moon when you watch Morgan. You're like, he's 25. Fucking say it. You're lying to me.

There's no way a 16-year-old is doing that. I get it all the time. There's this kid from New Zealand, not the one that's actually here, but there's another kid that absolutely hates me. He's like, Morgan's on drugs. Morgan's not 16. I'm like, man, come over here.

Try to beat USADA. Good luck to that. Anyway, another thing I get, too, is a lot of people will be like, they have such an unfair advantage. I'm like, unfair advantage? I'm in Louisville. You're in Miami.

I've got to get kids to move here. I talk so much. What's the unfair advantage? I don't know. The fact that I have, I guess, a social media presence. We all started at zero. We all signed up the same way i'm like you know put me in miami or put me in san francisco like cal string see what happens well

this is good this is a great intro for what we got going on talking about taking heat on the instance for your opinion your athletes all that um this is gonna be fun i'm super stoked on this because i i have i put up fucking thousands of posts i feel like and then every once in a while you write your opinion on the internet and people get and the whole world comes at you and i've had two in the past six months i want to say that the world has i actually got i became the meme on a meme instagram account. That's a weird thing. I've been several memes, but yeah. That's an interesting one, right?

You've made it. You've made it. Yeah. That means you have an opinion. Yeah. I'm pretty confident I've been a meme on every single weightlifting meme account that there is. It's interesting, right? What kind of memes have you been?

Oh, you know, I've stopped. One got pulled down strength insider you know i've been a million like they hated me there's some of them that like us so it's like some of these meme accounts are like friends with like some of my lifters which is weird and they started out having meme accounts with me but then now they're like glenn like pen glenn lay is yeah you heard that's the one that i became the meme on And so I've been on that Then there's like He made me He made me Alex

Alex Jones He called It was like I don't know I'm fucking retarded That's what That's what he wrote about me And I was supposed to be Alex Jones

That's the way I mean that's the way they are And you know That's the way they Get their attention How do they have that much time? Good question One time

I made a meme About the meme accounts and i did the whole like um what's the actor where he's like making a toast or whatever i'm like anyway i was like here's to all you mean you know people who have meme accounts who couldn't coach or lift yeah you know and so they were great i mean so i asked for it sometimes yeah i asked for it you know i'll call out reddit um you know i'll do like um like know, they'll call out, let's see if we have a bad meet. You know, these guys are inconsistent. They'll say all these things.

And then we'll have a meet like, there was one week where we had the junior Pan Ams and we had youth nationals. And so we won youth nationals. Both of my athletes at junior Pan Ams medaled, set Pan Am records. Like, we just killed it and we made it was like 77% of all of our lists and so I put that out there and I'm like now say something Reddit

and then all they could say was like well you just go too heavy with Morgan and Ryan I'm like oh my god that's all you got okay I win I feel like I win if that's all you can say this reminds me of one of the core lessons from God, that's all you got? Okay, I win. I feel like I win if that's all you can say. This reminds me of one of the core lessons from one of the great movies of the 21st century, Cars 3.

Have you seen this movie? I have not. I'm so excited. If you're a parent, you will. I haven't gotten there yet. There's a part of that movie where Jackson Storm, the bad car, like the bad guy villain car, so to speak, pulls up next to the female car. And the female car kind of feels like she's kind of unsure if she belongs in the race, that type of thing. And Jackson Storm, he's like the man, so to speak.

And he's kind of like, what the hell is she doing here, that type of thing. And he pulls up next to her and he's like, you're never going to be one of us. And she kind of gets, oh, man. And he pulls away and he's kind of like what the hell is she doing here that type of thing and he pulls up next to her and he's like you're never going to be one of us and she like kind of gets oh man and he pulls away and she's like all down and then and then lightning mcqueen comes up i love i know all the characters names you're a true dad lightning mcqueen pulls up and he's like he's like the the main character uh also kind of the man and he's mentoring this uh the yellow female car and i can't remember her name. But he pulls up, and she's like, she's playing into Jackson Storm's thing of, like,

I'm never going to be good enough. And he's like, no. He's not in your head. You're in his head. Like, if you weren't good enough to actually be a threat, he wouldn't be talking shit to you. And so kind of the same thing with the memes. Nobody would be making memes of you if you weren't already doing something really good.

Because if you actually were bad, then you just wouldn't be a player at all. You just wouldn't be around. Nobody would be paying attention to you. But someone is paying attention to you because you're doing well. Oh, yeah, I know. I try to remember that, but it gets to you. And one time, Swift Insider said they were making predictions on the senior Pan Ams, and they were like, oh, yeah, Mastiff's guy's going to bomb.

It was Jordan Cantrell. Anyway, we got silver medal. And so you can imagine what I said. I'm like, what was that, Strength Insider? You know, like, anyway, yeah, the mean bitch is like, I've always been like that. Like, it's hard for me to ignore it. People tell you to ignore it.

Yeah. But, like, you know, when someone says, like, your guy's going to bomb out, that bothered me. I think it's interesting that being 36 and going through many of life's struggles and then it happens, and you look at it objectively and subjectively at the same time, where you just want to reach through the computer and be like, are you fucking kidding me, dude? Seriously. Like, do you understand how much I care about strength and conditioning? Yeah.

Are you even remotely aware of how important it is for me to understand, like, how to help people? Do you know how important it is to me to actually put a good message so that people can take it with them and potentially live a better, stronger, healthier life. I'm not just throwing this out there just so you can create a fucking meme. I'm not just saying this stuff online just to offend people. It's to challenge the way people think about their lives because they're probably not reaching their goals. Go to the airport.

Go look at the human being that is on average floating through this world right now the grocery store they're a disaster so if you can challenge at one percent throughout their day like the post that really really fired the world up i wrote 100 of the time you will fail by following an 80-20 protocol in your nutrition. I stand 100% behind that. It fired people up. It fired the nutritionists up. It fired everyone up.

What are they saying? That's a context-dependent question. You have to explain what you really mean by something like that. Because you could take a statement like that and say and say that say it's perfect or say it's horrible but tell me that's specifically why i wrote it because my point is yes you cannot get anywhere in any aspect in any category of your life by putting 80 of the effort into it and if you go into nutrition and you have actual goals you have to track your macros yeah you have to go and try to eat higher quality food that you have to focus on the timing and those all three of those categories have to be dialed in to get where you're going and if that's

100 you're crushing it you're going to there. You just have to focus on consistency. So now we have this fourth category in there of like quality, quantity, timing, and consistency. And if you're at 80% of all four of those categories, you're probably unhealthy. You're just not doing it right. You're not consistently eating. If you say you're on a 2,000-calorie diet, and 20% of the time you're over, you're overeating 400 calories a day, you're going to put on two pounds a month. That's one out of every five meals you're cheating.

You're not doing it. That's a full cheat meal every day. Yeah. You're not doing it. You're going to be unhealthy. It all depends on really how far you want to go, so to speak. Like if you want to be an Olympic gold medalist, then you can't do 80-20. No.

Because you're not going to get all the way to the top of the mountain. Can you lose weight at 80-20? Yeah, but if you want to just lose 15 pounds and you have 50 pounds to lose, then sure, you can probably 80-20 your weight if losing 15 pounds. You think so? I don't think you can. Oh, yeah. I really don't think you can. Oh, yeah. I really don't think you can.

What do they say? Help me understand what they mean. Hold on. So if you're 50 pounds overweight and you've not been 80-20 and you've been 100% doing it wrong, and then you go to 80-20 from 100% doing it wrong, then you can lose 15 pounds. Because you haven't really gone that far down the path of doing things right or getting anywhere close to a big top-of-the-mountain type goal like being an Olympic gold medalist.

So if you make an improvement, then some improvement will happen. If you don't lift weights at all and then you think 100% effort on lifting weights means that you do two training sessions a day, five days a week. If you only did 80% of that and now you're not training at all. You still get better. Instead of doing 10 sessions a week,

now you're doing 80%. You're doing eight sessions a week. You're going to make some progress. If you want to be an Olympian and you're only doing 80% of what everyone else is doing, then you're not an Olympian. My point would be is this, is that like if, you know, it depends on what that 20% is, what you're talking about with 80-20. So you got to clarify that.

Yeah. So during that 20%, I really mess up. I think you could not see any progress. I don't think you will see any for most people. Yeah, because even like you get somebody who's super overweight and they start a diet and they're like, I'm not seeing progress. And they're like, well, I'm cheating every other day, which is basically 20%. But how bad are you cheating? Are you totally blowing up eating all pizza?

Then you might not go anywhere. So you might actually not go anywhere. I think that the biggest problem with the 80-20 idea is that people just say it. And they don't mean shit when it comes out of their mouth. And the problem with most people is not do they not know what to do. It's knowing when to stop. So if I give you one out of five cheat meals, and if you were able to have like one and a half to two scoops of

ice cream for dessert every night and now you're at 80 20 radical but nobody does that yeah because if you have 50 pounds to lose you have a food addiction you have an emotional problem you have a mental problem attached to food i do so as soon as the sugar goes in your mouth, there is no end. That's how you got 50 pounds overweight. You can't just 80, 20 your way because the first half of your day, you were 90% there and it was like, oh, I earned it.

I'm going to have a scoop of ice cream tonight. Well, you know where the scoop of ice cream goes? Right to the Cheetos. Right to the next thing that you have an emotional dependence on. Right to the whole gallon of ice cream. And it annoys me when I hear people that are in the nutrition space or in the strength, whatever it is, the experts say go do this because most people cannot break the emotional dependence. I have been addicted.

Like I dipped for a decade. Do you know how much I would try to like okay i'm gonna do like uh half a can today i'll do i'll only have like four dips today instead of six it doesn't work it doesn't work at all because you're still feeding yourself the thing you're still allowing your brain if people understood that the only way to do it is to rewire the entire system of your body and eliminate all the crap so that it's really painful for two weeks it's really really painful like it's going to suck you're going to have like these weird withdrawals you're going to be your energy is going to be jacked up that's your body rewiring itself to actually be able to live off

the healthy things so when like you have to fight you have to it's even more than eliminating the 20 it's eliminating the triggers that go into creating that 20 so when i had to quit dipping because my girlfriend was gonna break up with me like straight up now my wife she was like you're disgusting you need to fucking stop that like i'm not living with you doing that it was like oh well i gotta figure out. Like how do I do this? I can't stop dipping. It's built into my life. So what did I do?

I stopped going to convenience stores. I stopped going to the place where right behind when I check out every day, there's a big fat can of blue skull behind there saying buy this because it's blue and it's delicious. It's going to bring all the happiness to you because for a decade that's where the happiness was you know where everyone else's happiness is it's in the fucking cereal that they eat in the morning and it sets their day off on a disaster it's in the ice cream that they let themselves have because they had four good meals so now we can you don't stop at the 20 that 20 turns into 40 and you don't even know it. So you have to eliminate all of the shit that leads to the trigger.

It's not the actual food that's the problem. So when nutritionists are like, oh, just eat 80-20 and you'll get there, they're ignoring all of the things that lead to the problem. And this is something that really annoys me. When people would come into the gym and they would – this isn't the first time I've been an asshole about this. And it really bothers me because people don't understand. Well, I've been pissed off about – not pissed off, but I get annoyed when people can't handle the reality of the situation.

They don't understand the severity of their actions and how it leads to a life of problems if you don't stop the thing and just if there's one thing that i have like really learned in my life is like if you are not serving the greater good of my life you gotta go yeah you're out and it's not like this friendly like oh let's let's fucking date still a little bit we'll just be friends you're done you're out you're in the past i don't talk to you anymore until you step it you're out you're in the past i don't talk to you anymore until you step it back up and you're playing the same game that i'm playing you're out right you gotta go we're done right and that is the only way that i have ever figured out how to accomplish anything because if i'm carrying shitty friendships if i'm carrying

bad business partners if i'm carrying all this stuff you keep feeding this thing that just fucking sucks and you you never go forward so until people can objectively view their life and stop going to the middle aisles and buying the chips because the chips are in the back look i'm not perfect at nutrition i don't have the ryan fisher body there's problem but guess what like one of the biggest things for me like i put on 15 awful pounds when adelaide was born like i was eating more i'm sleeping less all these things what's the way to go back to getting back on track it's not 80 20 like i'm gonna like do most of it like every night I'm going to have just one scoop of ice cream and like no if you go through your cabinet

and you throw all the crap out and then you don't go buy it if you buy it you're going to eat it so this 80-20 idea of like oh you can just have the ice cream in your freezer but don't touch it it doesn't work. Not for me it does not work. And when people would come into the gym

and they'd have like real conversations with me about reaching goals and i've had people have this hundred pound transformation we have people in the shrugged group right now that have had hundred pound transformations they're losing half of their body in a year and i've done this in person we do this online i've had this happen multiple times and you go they'd be like so what do i need to eat i'd be like i don't care you eat. I need you to get rid of all your friends. Your friends are the problem. Because where do you hang out? You hang out at the pizza shop. And what do you get? You get a pitcher of beer and you split it and you get a pizza. And then what happens? You go home and you feel like crap. You have this big energy dive. And now you go and

you're looking for the next spike in energy. And where does that come from? From a bag of chips while you're sitting on your couch. It's a system. It's not an 80-20 thing. There's a systemic problem in your life that, like, you going to hang out with your friends at the end of the kickball game has led you one pound at a time, one pizza and pitcher of beer at a time to being 50 pounds overweight. I'm with you. And you can't 80-20 your way out of that. You have to objectively view your friendships, your actions,

and get rid of the crap that leads to 50 pounds in two years. I think this is an example of today's reality. It's like what he is being is very realistic. And I think it seems like nowadays if you are very real with people, you're going to hurt feelings. And then you're a bad guy, which is really all you're doing is being honest. It's the people that when they say 80-20, they're probably deep down lying. They're 100% lying. They don't want to hurt your feelings.

They don't want you to know what it really takes. But then you're setting people up for failure. And the nutritionists are jerks. Yeah. When you're a nutritionist and you're online, you're like, I eat 80-20. You're not telling them about the first 15 years where you tracked everything. Right. You're not doing that.

It's like you look at Fisher and you're like, I'm jacked because I do this. No, Fisher's really good at being like, look, I've been doing this my whole life. Right. I watch everything that goes on my mouth. He's a nut. And when you're around disciplined people, it makes sense. It's the people that lack discipline. They're like, oh, I'm like 80, 20. You're like, no, you're not. And the nutritionists that don't tell people, you found balance in your life because you were unbalanced for a long period of time. You built this huge savings bank of health

and nutrition your body operates properly it burns energy properly and then you're like you know what i had some chips today didn't kill me it won't kill you either no it won't kill them if they just have a handful of chips at night but what kills them is that they do it every night and then that one handful of chips leads to eight other bad decisions while they're sitting on the couch and feeling depressed and feeling bad for themselves and i don't i struggle with people that lack the commitment to make themselves a better person it's not that your diet is the thing your diet is just this piece of your life that you can't that like shows the world yeah your decision making It's not the diet that I hate. It's your lack of commitment

to finding out where your best self is and how you can become a better person. Because if you're 50 pounds overweight, you don't feel good. It's a fact. You don't. Nobody walks around and is like, I feel great being the guy on the airplane

that no one wants to sit next to. Like, you don't. You're constantly thinking about it. But when do you take the onus on yourself? Where's the locus of control? Where are you going to say, I'm done with this 20% bullshit. I'm done telling people that I'm trying to be healthy.

I got to go all in. How many times have you seen people not succeed because they have this other way out? Like, you don't have to be a world-class athlete to just take the to put it on yourself i own this now everything that goes in my mouth i own and there's a result there is a result down the line i'm gonna go with you bad decisions over and over and over again for bad people that don't have your best interest in mind, you earned it. You earned being overweight. You earned your bad health.

Yeah. And you have to focus on rewiring your entire system of life because you systemically put yourself in a bad spot and that is a problem. And the people that I feel the worst for are the kids who grow up in a systemically poor household that can't make good decisions. Yeah.

They don't even have the education to be able to put it on themselves. It's only bad. And when I see kids like that, it kills me because it's not their fault. They're the only ones that it's not their fault. But when you start making your own food, when you start buying your own food, it's on you. You did it. No matter what your parents did. Now you've got to eventually – that's the problem we have nowadays is nobody wants to look themselves in the mirror and say, this is my fault.

You know, I love, one of the things I love about Gary Vee, obviously I talk about him a lot, is that he's really big on ownership. Taking 110% complete percent of ownership of your life. Like, if something goes wrong, it's all your fault. It's not your mom. It's not your dad. It's not your friends. It's all you. And like, it's just, we're in an era where people just do not want to do that that's a scary

place for them that's the very i'm with you man that's the very place they need to go like you know you get an athlete comes in there i want to be an olympian i hear it all the time yeah and i'm like all right that's perfect and so here's what it takes and i list it out you know we write goals and they write goals and then you know then their actions. There's a girl in this gym right now who should be Team USA and should be an Olympian. She was on her way, but 20% of her life was spent doing dumb stuff. So your 80-20 rule did not work for her. 20% was spent drinking at nighttime, eating poorly, not stretching, not sleeping, partying. Only 20%.

That 20% ruined her goals. I'm with you. Imagine if you stacked the 20% and made it positive. Yeah. Like 80% of the time I'm good, 20% of the time I'm great. And that extra little greatness is doing the mobility. Yes, you do. It's like spending 20 minutes a day doing meditation.

Instead of like that 20% has to be bad, well, most of the time I'm really good, but 20% of my day I make perfect decisions. That girl literally all she had to do was stop partying. That is all. And she's team yourself. I am party guy. Icky Glazer was on Rogan the other day, and she was like, man, I was like that person that could go out at night, and I could have two drinks, and next thing you know, I'm blacked out because I party so much that my brain just knows where I'm going.

It goes into protection mode. Been there. Grad school. Grad school. I know about that. I know what that feels like. You know when life started to change? When I decided I'm done with that person.

That person no longer is me. I a business started a gym started training taking training and crossfit like very seriously it became the reflection of me like if you saw me i didn't want you to think oh i bet that guy's a lot of fun bet he's great at beer pong yeah still kick your ass in beer pong just but like you don't want to be that guy i'm with you so you have to take the ownership like who are you known for are you known for the guy that's disciplined and gets what they want are you known for the person that lets himself off the hook 20 percent of the time how do you reconcile the difference between 100 effort and 100 actually doing objectively the right thing so if you made a lot of progress in in your athletics 10 years ago and you're like i was

100 bought and i did everything right and you made a lot of progress and then you look back and you go damn 10 years ago like i was all i was doing all those things as best as i could but actually now that i'm really more educated and have more experience a lot of those things were wrong i wasn't actually doing the right thing but you were doing the not all the way right thing with 100 effort and you made a lot of progress but those things actually doing the right thing, but you were doing the not all the way right thing with 100% effort and you made a lot of progress, but those things weren't the right thing. How do you reconcile the difference between those two? Well, right and wrong are purely subjective on where you would like to be. So that is a, like my goals now being a father and married are way

different than a decade ago when i was opening my gym and trying to be a great only thing that i had that was worth anything was work ethic and my ability to perform right so like i didn't have a single dollar to my name all i could do was show you how hard i was willing to work if given the opportunity and I had no other skills outside of physical fitness. Right. So every day I tried to kill myself, not even so much for fitness, but to show the world like this is how hard I'm willing to work. Right. I don't have anything else. I have no money. I have this gym that has half the mats on the floor, five barbells, but I will kill myself if I need to in order for you to realize

that this is who I am as a person. You have to have that now. You're talking about effort then? I'm talking, well, effort is one piece of it, but also 100% in educating yourself on the right way to do things. Being, surrounding yourself with people that are fully motivated to reach the same goals.

It's, it's, I, I say this a lot now and I feel like I really offend people when I say that, say it to them and I don't mean to be offensive

but I have no time for friendships because friendships distract me from what I should be doing in my life. If they're poor ones, especially. Even if they're great ones. I just don't have time to invest in people that are not my daughter, my wife, my business, and my training.

Right. So if you want to hang out with me, you have one of four ways. Become a part of the family. That's going to be hard. Yeah. Like be a part of family activities in which then you would be invited or be my training partner. Yeah. And that's a hard thing.

Those things are hard barriers to get into because I just don't – yeah, we're business. Like I just don't have the time. So finding the things that are core to what you want to be doing matter. Let me – I'm going to give you an example of something that supports your hypothesis about this 80-20 rule. There was Great Britain Cycling. They lost their government funding a long time ago, and they took that cycling program. There's a guy, I forget his name, took it over.

And what he did was he took, instead of trying to make massive changes, like, you know, in like one spot, he looked at all the different spots, like, you know, recovery, nutrition, the way the bike was made, the aerodynamic, every spot he could possibly make it, like recovery, nutrition, the way the bike was made, the aero. Every spot he could possibly make a change, and he made small incremental changes to each of those until he perfected every one of those. And so with zero funding from the government, they took and made the best cycling program in the world. And the 80-20 rule would have not worked. No.

I don't think anything awesome will be created with that. maybe dude would you go into business with somebody they were like look i'm gonna spend 20 minutes 20 of my energy and brain power doing my own thing over here but 80 i'll show up you're like you're distracted 20 of your waking hours no way you're talking to a world champion like i spent 110 percent yeah everything i had on this one thing to accomplish no i do not like i'm with you i do not agree with 80 20 like it's just not me maybe it works for someone out there but i can't see anything awesome it's just this broad term that just makes people feel so good about them. I'm not about making you feel good. I'm about making you feel real. I want you to try. Right.

And the thing to me, maybe even what your question was, it's like, is it 100% effort? Well, today I'm in. I hope you can tell by the passion in my voice that I'm in. I see this. I like it. I'm pumped up. I'm in.

I'm ready to make this show radical. I'm here with my best friend. I'm in. We traveled here. I'm in. I'm ready to make this show radical. I'm here with my best friend. I'm in. We traveled here. I'm ready. Let's go. But tomorrow, yesterday happened. How do I get better?

How do I make this whole thing better? Yesterday's system needs to be finely tuned. Right. I'm not so emotionally attached that if I don't have the greatest day ever, I'm a failure and I'm going to be depressed. It's like a growth mindset. Like today wasn't as good as yesterday, but we still got a little bit better at something.

We're still pushing forward and we're still trying to perfect this path that we're on. And do I sit down when we're traveling and like eat perfect meals? And do I have like issues if it's not like oh this restaurant doesn't have grass-fed beef and it's not 93 7 it's 80 20 and the fat content's too hot no that's that doesn't exist it's the fact that every single moment you're you're trying to do the best that you possibly can do with the situation that you are dealt right and you can't control the outside but you can control the food that goes in your mouth right very few people i

bet actually are being forced to eat food right you're very very aware and you're very much in control of the drinks that go in your mouth sure you're very much in control of how much water you drink you're in control of how much you can what. You're in control of what time you go to sleep. If you have kids, you're not really in control what time you wake up. But you can control, like my fat ass was when I put on 15 pounds when I became a dad, that I'd be awake. It'd be 3 a.m. I'd go down to the fridge. Peanut butter's there.

The jelly's there. I'm hungry. I don't know if I'm going to go to work right now at 3 a.m. or I'm going to go to sleep at 3 a.m. And you start eating. And then you go to work. And now I haven't slept. Like, some things in that situation you control. I controlled eating peanut butter at 3 a.m. and not sleeping.

Right. I could have gone back to sleep. Those decisions over time in six months added – Equaled 15 pounds. I think a 100% mindset could slip to be 90-10. You'll still be all right. But I think if you go into it thinking 80-20, you end up 70-30, 60-40. It's a slippery slope. If you go into it saying, hey, 20% of the time I'm going to fail

and do something bad, that's going to end up going off the rail, I think. Only someone who's dialed in and makes a mistake once in a while and then realizes that's a mistake and gets right back on track. But if you're 80-20, I just don't see how that could work. I just feel like that's going to slip into something bad. Yeah, and I think it's about finely tuning the systems, right? You don't have to track macros for 365 days a year, but you should probably do it for three months.

And figure yourself out. And figure it out. Because if you don't, all of a sudden you completely lose touch with how much food you're eating. You completely lose touch with what four to eight ounces of meat at each meal looks like. Right. But if you go back from say january to april

and you track it's it's dialed in you're in your percentages for the rest of the year the system is built in it's hard coded into your body that you just naturally fall into this rhythm and then by december and the holidays thanksgiving and all these things where you're overeating you probably don't feel that great your training's been off you're traveling a lot more well january comes up let's just put three months in you're not failing your your new year's resolution because you didn't do it for 365 days you're just dialing it back in right and if you have real goals and if you have 50 pounds to lose, your problem is not the food. Yeah.

It's the mental side. It's the emotional side. It's the relationships. You have let yourself be surrounded by people and an environment that is leading you to being extremely unhealthy. With you. And, you know, Jen Widerstrom's a good friend of ours and like,

she's been on The Biggest Loser. Why do all those people struggle when they get off The Biggest Loser? Because they go from this extremely, they go from a healthy environment

focused on weight loss back home. And what's home? Well, now home, you're this one person that understands what protein is. You're the one person that understands what protein is. You're the one person that's eating vegetables, surrounded by pizza.

By your significant other and your kids. And what are you going to do? Look at your kids and be like, nope, don't do that. I'm not a part of this family anymore because you guys are fat and out of shape, and I'm healthy. You should. I think you should go back and rewire everyone. You've got to rewire everyone.

You should go back, like you said, take your cupboards and clean them out. But nope, this is done. It's what a good parent should do. We're done eating like this. Ah, man, people are going to get mad at that right there, aren't they? I'm just being real. You should. Dude, it is a problem with the kids too.

My daughter goes to daycare, and it's the second most expensive daycare in the whole freaking area and they're not supposed to be eating crap food but that's what they it's not crap to most people it's just because we know this space yeah and i see behavioral changes when they eat sugary delicious food and then i come home and i'm like eat your egg and she looks at the egg and she's like no that's bland it tastes like regular food it's not delicious like apple juice yeah and it you can't be a hundred even if you are a hundred percent perfect on your macros every single day and you're getting every ounce of fiber and every ounce of everything like that is not a reason if you if you don't hit those goals every day that

doesn't mean you're at this 80 20 thing it shouldn't be thrown into that big lump category and it doesn't mean you're a failure living an 80 20 life to me means that you are letting yourself off the hook systematically over and over and over again. At least every other day. Giving yourself a break by just claiming I'm 80-20. And you don't ever really commit to what is going all into something. And being the best you can be and creating systems and structures in your life that actually allow you to be great. I'm with you.

And commit. Yeah. Mic drop. You got pumped. Sorry. Shrug family, we're taking a quick break. I told you you were going to hear my opinion about the 80-20 nutrition protocol. We're only halfway there right now. And to help you out, because I do have products that

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Get 10% off KPEX using the using the code SHRUGGED10. Back to the show. Do you feel better? Have you been wanting to do that rant for a while now? It's not even a rant. I just get frustrated with people, man. Look, dude, I'm the fucking host of Barbell Shrugged. You're my dude.

And people, like, this wasn't a part of my life this was never part of the plan the only reason it became a part of the plan was because i fucking worked my ass off and when you look at people that make it why are you travis mash right now because you fucking work your ass off right every day Every day. Like, we... Do you know how to fix a toilet? No. No. Do you know how to fix things around your house?

No. No. You know who knows how to fix things around their house? People that focus on fixing things in their house. I tried once. People that don't wake up every morning and think about strength and conditioning all day. Like a sickness. I don't know how to do anything else.

Nothing. No. Cook dinner. What's dinner? Well well dinner's eggs grill yeah yeah yeah yeah i i i am i do think it's good to know how to cook yeah cooking is fixing my toilet is a waste of time yeah i tried one time it turned into a bad mistake no i it's a it's. Unscrewed the wrong screw and the water starts pouring out. Oh, man. Yeah. Like, go spend time around Fisher.

Go spend time around Corey Gregory. Go spend time around these people that are waking up. Mark Bell trains at 3.30 in the morning. Yeah, that's crazy. Train with those guys that are up at 4 a.m. That's me, but yeah, I'm not training, but yeah. I normally get up at 4. You're in the middle of writing a 400-page book right now that's me but yeah i'm not training but yeah i'd only get up at four you're in the middle of writing a 400 page book right now that's killing you you could put 80 effort into that and say i'll

release it next summer two years from now no it would never get done like it's okay to not i don't think that everyone in the world is cut out to try to be this, just that thinks about being their best self. I don't think that you have to be that person. But if you're not happy where you're at and you're looking for answers, the answer is inside yourself. Right. And you shouldn't be looking at other people's crap being like, well, they said that's okay, so I should feel okay about it. No, you shouldn't. You should want to be better at it and like the fact that i'm in this room talking to you guys like

i many times get emotional about it whether you guys are here or not because i'm just so grateful that i get to do this but i didn't get here to do this and feel like I might be able to affect strength and conditioning by casually giving a fuck. No. Like, it matters to me that people get out of bed in the morning for a purpose. And if you're not doing that, oh, it drives me insane. You have to be like that to be a motivator, though, to be the guy who drives people to get fit. I've never met a guy who did any really good thing in fitness. I'm talking about the Jack LaLanes of the world.

They were all in, and they were not passive. They were Martin Rooney. They were all in all the time, every single day. I've never met an 80-20 human that motivated anybody. No. I definitely see your point. I got hung up on absolutes a little bit because I think way too

I don't know if accurate or realistic or what's a better term for it? There's always an anecdotal thing. No, no, no. Like what's, fuck, I can't remember the term that I'm thinking of here, but if you say something and you expect the person to actually really do exactly what they're saying, like to a T, what's the term for that?

I'm lost. So you say something and you're like have total expectations of like oh we're talking about uh someone being there they are they're 100 um i know what you mean yeah it's compliance um if it comes to me i'll let you know but anyway like so i i think like like travis you're writing a 400 page page book we're talking about being like 100 bought in every single time but like if you're 100 bought in on writing a 400 page book and we're talking about being like 100% bought in every single time, but like if you were 100% bought in on writing a 400 page book, you wouldn't be talking to us right now

because you'd be writing your book right now and you'd tell us you wouldn't have time to do this. Like that type of thing. But what I did was get up at 4 a.m. and already write that book is what I did. Right. And so that shows that you're putting in a lot of effort. Right.

But then it's like, but it's tough in my mind to argue that you're putting in 100% effort because you're not writing your book right now because 100% effort means you would be writing your book i think it comes down to definition right that that is what i was trying to get at the beginning is like define 80 20 like because i'm doing exactly what i want this is what i mean this is not me 20 taking time off doesn't mean want to do number one i love it it's fine but like this is part of what i do is like i want to get the word out about strength and fitness you know to everybody and so

being on your show is obviously part of that so like yeah i don't feel like i'm like taking you know 20 of away from the book i feel like i you know because i have it mapped out of when i want the book finished so i did what i needed to do 100 you know about to for it to be done by sunday i did what i needed to do today and so so i feel i'm 100 in compliance to getting that book done meanwhile i'm here also spreading the word about fitness and strength and health right imagine if we trying to say all that while still at the same time saying of course you're working really hard on your book but if we had called you but like if we had called you been like hey we're gonna go on a hike uh tomorrow morning at like 9 a.m you want to say no probably yeah you'd be like no wham because it's that's too far outside the outside of what i'm trying

to accomplish right now yeah you know i did i did my you guys came i worked out yesterday had a great workout and so i'm compliant there i feel like i've been the last you know the last three weeks i feel like i've been as compliant as know the last three weeks i feel like i've been as compliant as i've been on all the areas of my life whether it's a dad husband i feel like i'm in a good rhythm right now so this is a good time for this you know podcast like i feel like i've done all i need to do in business all i need to do yeah you know obviously you can always be a better husband and and uh father but i feel like i've made good strides in that, so I feel good about it. Yeah.

Yeah, I think you got a lot of kickback on that post because it depends on what people need to hear in a lot of cases. I think there's two different avenues here. There's like the Abidjahs of the world where they just fucking put everyone through the ringer and whoever survives is a world champion. Right. And all the people that didn't survive, you never hear about them.

And then there's like the general fitness person who like you're going to train your 200 gym members and you're trying to collectively get them all as much progress as possible and not lose anyone along the way. And so there's a lot of different psychologies that go into 200 different people. And so if you're a person where if I come to you, given what you've said over the last 30 minutes, and I say, no, you have to be 100% bought in no matter what, and you go, fuck yeah, that's exactly what I needed to hear to get in and kill it.

You go up to somebody else and say, you have to be 100% bought in. You have to give up everything to make it happen. And they go, whoa. Okay. And then they make no progress because they just leave. So it kind of depends on what someone needs to hear in the moment. So I think both perspectives are valid depending on what's actually going to motivate an individual.

That's the key, though, is defining what you mean by, you need to define when you're saying it to who you're saying it. But once they're in, you know, and once they're in the fitness world and you say, I want to do X, I want to lose 50 pounds. Now you're already in. Then I would say you've got to go all in. And like, is 80-20, what do you mean by that?

Are you meaning that I'll have a cheat meal once in a while? Like, what kind of a cheat meal? Are you saying you're going to eat 1,000-calorie cheat meal? Well, then you're not going to go anywhere. You'll probably go backwards. So there's so many definitions. But for the most part, I'm going to say that I'm definitely, I personally, obviously who I am, naturally lean towards everything you're saying. Yeah, just throwing it out there as a general instruction for nutrition compliance and success is wildly, it's borderline irresponsible.

Nobody knows what it means. And everyone says it. That's exactly right. I don't know what you mean. That's why I'm trying. I don't understand 80-20. Are you saying I can have a 200-calorie cheat meal once every three days?

If you say that to me, if I do that, I'm still 100% compliant. Even though I cheated, it doesn't mean that's part of the whole deal. I almost feel like it's even one step below in guidance of, like, if it fits your macro approach, where someone's just, like, taking four protein shakes a day and eating donuts to get their carbs. You're like, you're just a bag of trash, but you got your macros.

Like, it's even less. At least that person's compliant on their macro side. Yeah. I don't know where the line is. That's the key. But I know that if you want to get where you're going, 80% of the time success rate is not going to get you there. 20% will pull you right back down. The ramp is so long at that rate of success that you're going nowhere.

Like you're just this long, flat, sort of downward trending line, and it's just not going to get you there. I'm going to tell you, in my experience, and I've been in this industry forever. You know, I started right out of college. I've been in this health, fitness, and strength industry. And the people who have made the most progress, whether it's getting strong, whether it's losing weight, is the person who went all in early and saw major results that's when they're hooked like if someone's trying to lose 100 pounds and they lose like 12 pounds in 10 days

they're hooked they're like hell yeah they get on they get on the scale and they're like you know and they're like this actually works and then they're like, this actually works. And then they're in. Well, yeah, that's the only rationale that I have for like destroying someone on their first day where they, I don't think you should destroy people on their first day from a physiological standpoint. Like there's no real benefit to making someone sore for like six days, every part of their body.

Like you're not really doing them a whole lot of favors, but psychologically they might be like, Oh fuck, like this. Dang, I've never felt like this. I really did a lot of work like if I keep doing

this like I gotta be able to get in shape this guy really knows what he's doing right etc etc because there's there's the psychological benefit of feeling like you did something that you can

get from making someone really really sore on their very first day and now they're bought in forever and you don't need to keep destroying them every workout forever that's not a

good long-term approach but that to get that that buy-in so to speak that's everything I think that matters a lot 80-20 but to get that buy in so to speak I think that matters a lot 80-20 will not get that initial buy in and what happens we've seen this thousands of times in the CrossFit space

somebody comes in overweight and they're all in they love it on day one they love getting their ass kicked it's beautiful three months later what happens I haven't lost weight no it's when they're when they love it and they go all in on it they lose all their friends all

their old friends they're only friends with the crossfit people now their own the next thing you know they're dating the crossfit person they've got abs they've got this thing because that what they do for four months six months yeah they went all in. And one of the things that really started to bother me in a lot of the comments, like really started to bother me was when people started throwing out, like, this leads to disordered behavior. And I'm like, we're talking about disorders? Like, how? How is trying to be good at something make you disordered it that if you have a mental

problem or an emotional problem fix get that fix get that part fixed but the food is not the problem no it's something else it there's something else there that is leading to a disordered behavior pattern. It is not trying to be great at something. Nobody looks at Jeff Bezos like, you know what, you have a disordered money problem. No. No, they just want to be billionaires. Right. But nobody knows you have to have a disordered money problem to be a billionaire.

You have to be Bezos. Nobody looks at Elon Musk like, you have a Mars disorder. You think about it too much. It's really affecting your friendships. No. There's a bunch of fucking people that want to go to Mars and die out there to follow his lead. I'm sorry, Elon. You've got a battery disorder. You've got a

Mars disorder. The people that have disorders, it's not to put you down. There's things that go into that. It's not to be insensitive to what you have going on and the people that have disorders, it's not to put you down. Like, there's things that go into that. It's not to be insensitive to what you have going on and the issues that you're going through. Food is the way that it shows up. If we're talking about a person who's 100 pounds overweight, they already have the disorder. I'm not giving them anything. Me saying something did not cause they have it.

They're in their disorder. They're in the middle of it. So they need to go get that fixed and it probably shows up in food and some people it shows up in drugs and some people it shows up in alcohol and gambling there's a billion different ways that it can't do it but saying you want to be better than 80 20 or you want to be as close to perfect as possible to become your best self does not mean you have a disorder. It doesn't mean you're on the outside looking in. You don't have to have a problem to want to be good at something.

If we start taking away the fact that you can try hard and put the work in and actually be good at something and now you have a problem because you want to be great or you want to be good it leads to just everybody fucking working their asses off to be part of the middle people why are we so focused on making everybody feel good that we just shove everybody in the middle that is this new era i'm with you on that but if if what i did as a world champion was a disorder then i'll take my disorder because like it made me you definitely have a weightlifting disorder it's fine you know then i'm okay with that disorder because you know i you know i've done something that no one else did that's cool you know i was i brought the all-time world record at one moment in my life at one moment in my life i can say that there was no human on this earth stronger than me at this one thing.

And so if that's a disorder, and it was. I was obsessed. You were obsessed. I was obsessed with this one thing. Well, man, that's a negative way to frame dedication. Right. You could say if you want to demonize it, you could say that person's obsessed and they're a bad person. Or if you want to build that person up, you could say that person's super dedicated and they're awesome.

I don't care what you say. It just depends on how you want to frame it. And you're allowed to have your own goals. You're allowed to have whatever level of success that you would like. But if somebody looks at you and they're like, you know, being the world's strongest man must be cool, but, like, I don't want to do that because then I wouldn't have, like, my Friday nights and my Saturday night cheat meals

and I wouldn't have the – and you're like, that's great. And I would say to that person – How dare you think that you have any clue what it takes to go where I'm going right now? Well, I, I, I'm going to,

I'm going to say something binary as I'm pointing out that I don't say things that are binary, but like, there's no like black and white to me. Like, yeah, there's quote unquote, no black and white for me.

Right. Right. Never say never. Never say never. All that stuff. All that stuff. All that stuff. I view everything on a spectrum. If you put in 50% effort, you're going to get 50% results.

If you put in 100% effort, you're going to get 100% results. So it just depends on how good you want your results to be. If you're going to go all in, then you're going to get as far as you physiologically can go because you're 100% all in. And if you only put in a little bit of effort then you're only going to make a little bit of progress right but if you're doing more than you used to do then you'll probably move forward and if you if you're doing 100 effort and someone's like no just 80 20 dude like fucking you need to chill out then you're probably gonna go backward it depends on how far you want to go

with it yeah and i see this thing all the time on social media right now where like you have these people that were super dedicated crossfitters and they're putting the grind in for six seven eight years and then they get to the tail end of this competitive thing and they're looking for the next option and you know then they go into like some sort of like body building phase or something like that and they're like adding these more like structural hypertrophy movements and they're like they take their shirt off and like, look, I'm still so jacked. Whatever you're doing, you don't need that. Do what I'm doing. Right.

You go, well, what about the first six years that got you there? Yeah. What about now you're just layering on hypertrophy at the end of an already ridiculously strong frame and letting your body recover for two years? Tell the whole story. tell the whole story. Tell the whole story. You're not, it's not genuine to put it out there in 300 characters plus a picture of your abs to say this is what you do.

There's not a lot of people out there selling anything that's, like, genuine anymore. It's like, they don't tell the whole story. Well, even people that are, like, man. Part of that's people don't they don't tell the whole story. even people that are, like, man, I, Part of that's people don't want to listen

to the whole story. That's true. Not at scale. Like, if you put out your, your 400 page Travis Mash ebook, Yeah.

Someone's gonna read it, but not at, not the masses. Even the people who buy it are going to, like, they're just skipping to the programs probably,

you know. That's too bad. They should read it. Yeah, but I think that's like why these long-form conversations are really important because you can't hide behind them you can't you can't we wouldn't be talking about this one thing if we hadn't had 20 plus years in the gym to see how it actually works i love this conversation it's just real i think i think

on that on that post you would have got essentially zero kickback if you only talked about the portion of you need to put 100% effort into things if you want to get really good results. People would have been like, fuck yeah, you do. 100% effort. Let's go. It was demonizing the 80-20 thing where people that have made progress in their mind with 80-20 or something similar are like, wait,

hold on. I made progress and I know people that made progress. That's not true. Very few people would be able to argue with, if you want to make progress, you need to be fully 100% dedicated. So if you change the words around, say the exact same thing, no one gets mad. Well, and the other part of the post that people really got annoyed with, and this is how I view everything in my life,

is if you eat one great meal, get a plus one that's your savings bank you got plus one of the savings bank if you turn around and eat ice cream right after you're back at zero right so how do we get to a level and i just threw out the perfect number of mastery that everybody loves like how do you get to a savings bank of 10 000 beautiful perfect meals how do you get to a 10 000 gotta go You've got to go 100%. You can't get there. 80-20 would take forever. And it's not perfect math.

It's not like that is the number. But it's the idea of why don't we stack good on good instead of stacking good on good and then taking three steps back. I think what you said earlier is the truth. Stack it long enough to get past this thing you're going through like you know once you develop better habits and rewire that was the best the best thing you made the whole time is like you need to rewire your brain and your your body for eating healthy yeah like what do you do once you get there then yeah you

can be normal and it's like your training program right now. Yeah. You were wildly unhappy. I had to go in. You got to a point where you were like, oh, my God, I've really gotten to this point. And then what happened? It became hard. I had to go all in. Yeah. Yeah, because, like, you know, I was being sporadic, lifting, just kind of, like, flinging it.

And then it got to the point where I'm, like, you know, age caught up with me. And, like, it was not easy to clean. Like, yesterday I cleaned the 308. That was not was not easy like i actually had to work for once like normally back in the day i could like not do anything and then a couple of training sessions i'm at 140 then i'm at 150 then at 160 but it stopped and so i had to go and it freaked me out is what happened is like it's like you've become and i looked at all my athletes. I've become normal. And, like, I was not having it. So, like, now I'm back to not being normal.

And the other piece to it to me is that it carries over to every other aspect, right? Totally. Like if I practice commitment in the gym and I say I'm going to be here five days a week and I'm going to stick to a program, nothing's getting in the way of that. Right. Well, now it's easier for me to say I'm getting up at 5 a.m. Yeah. Because I practice commitment.

I have hardwired the ability to commit to my own personal health, something that is going to be better for me. I try to wake up at 5.30, but I'm not, like, really, really committed to it right now. Right. I know I'm not, which means, like, one to two days a week I do it. But what I really want in the new year is to work out early in the morning so i can be home and like work longer and work more

effectively for more hours and then as soon as my wife and kid get home i'm done i don't have it in the back of my brain of like fuck i wish i had an extra hour right now to like really finish up some things or like write some more or do more of this. I'm done. Yeah. Why? Because I committed to waking up at five and going to the gym and getting the training part done. Like the big part of my day of work, which is training, being in the gym, like that's done.

I did it. And I, and I, and I'm still maintaining the other pieces of my life. I didn't have to sacrifice family because of work. I didn't have to sacrifice family because of work i didn't have to sacrifice training because of work or family i'm just committing to doing it at a different hour to make my life better and i've practiced commitment enough that i know what it takes i know that it's going to suck for

two weeks and then it just becomes a part of me yeah i'm with you you know i saw this thing online i want to say it was on one of Logan Gelbrich's posts. Someone was saying that you got to wake up early and get shit done. You'll turn your life around if you get up earlier, blah, blah, blah. Someone came in on the other side of that and was like, why the fuck does it matter if you wake up early? Why can't I stay up until 3 in the morning and then sleep for 8 hours? It's the same amount of sleep.

I have the same number of hours in the day. I can get a lot of work done at nighttime, blah, blah, blah. What's the difference with the people that wake up early versus the people that go to bed late? What is the answer there? Because I could go either way, but go ahead. Right. I see the argument this person is attempting to make, and I thought Logan had a pretty good comeback there.

He goes, well, because I know essentially zero people that wake up at 4 a.m. and watch Netflix for six hours. Dude, I actually saw that. I was like, that's a good point. It's great. It's a great point. As a function of when you wake up and when you go to bed, you prioritize your time differently. If it's 9 p.m., you're way more likely to watch Netflix for three hours and then go to bed

than if you wake up at 4 a.m. and you're like, what am I going to do? What am I going to do until 7 a.m.? You're probably not going to watch Netflix. If you were going to watch Netflix, you would just keep sleeping. You're waking up at 4 a.m. and you're like, what am I going to do? What am I going to do until 7 a.m.? You're probably not going to watch Netflix. If you were going to watch Netflix, you would just keep sleeping. You're waking up at 4 a.m. to work. That's why people wake up at 4 a.m. That is a great point. You wake up at 4 a.m. to get shit done.

You don't stay up, most people on average, we're making generalizations here, but most people don't stay up until 3 in the morning to get shit done. Some people do, but I wouldn't say that's the norm. But more likely the norm, people that wake up at 4 a.m., it's because they're waking up to be productive. You're waking up to be not distracted. That's not how it is. You're sacrificing sleep for not being distracted.

That just answered my question. Because even when I do the opposite, when I, like, stay up late as opposed to getting up early, like, even when I'm working, I will sometimes do it while watching Netflix. So I just hit home when you said that. Like, it's totally true. Like, you know, while writing this book, some of it has been done super early. Some of it has been done staying up super late. When I get up super early, I get a lot more done because I don't get up and watch Netflix.

Yeah. I go to my office and I sit down and I work. It's a great point. And it's just quiet. You can just spend some time with yourself. It's just quiet. And you're right. If I'm going to get up and watch Netflix, I'm going to work. It's a great point. And it's just quiet. You can just spend some time with yourself. It's just quiet, and you're right. If I'm going to get up and watch Netflix, I'm going to sleep. It's totally true.

But when I get up at 4 a.m. or 5 a.m., I'm going to work. Even during the day, you don't realize that your house is loud. There's a lot of things going on. Sit in your house at 5 a.m., pull the computer open, and you're like, quiet. Fucking quiet in here. Let's get this thing done. That's why I really like four because

my kids get up sometimes sometimes it's surprising to get up at six so i give it five i might only get an hour if i get four i'm guaranteed two yeah you know maybe probably three that's perfect to get three solid hours of good work done yeah and then i feel i'm already feeling great and i'll you know my kids will get up i have such a better morning with my family if I wake up and get something done. If I feel productive and accomplished before my kids are awake, then, like, the whole morning is just so much better. Like, I'm totally ready for family stuff. Like, to a different extent than I would be if I didn't get something done beforehand. Even when I got home last night because I had such a good such a good day, because I got up, wrote my book,

you guys got here, we had fun, we trained, we talked, we podcasted. I got home last night and was like the dad and husband of the year. I felt like King Kong. I felt like I was supporting my family and I was doing my thing that I feel like I've been put on earth to do,

and I did it to the fullest. Yeah, I were in Sweden we were in Paris yeah and you're not going out to dinner with us so you can write your book yeah yeah and I would like everybody to know at no point did anybody even remotely question your decision no because you fucking get it yeah if you and was like, look, dude, I have to write this program. This shit's going to be dope. I just got to do it. You'd be like, rad. I'm so stoked you're amped on this thing. We're just going to go eat food.

We're not doing anything that great. Go do the thing that you think is so rad right now. If you find friends that are pulling you away from the things you're trying to accomplish, you should get new friends. Yeah. At least have a talk with those friends, and if it doesn't change... It's not going to change,

because not everybody's built to think like this. It's just... I don't hang out with that, then. Yeah. You ever read The Power of Full Engagement by Tony Schwartz? No. Jim Lehrer?

No. They have this concept in that book where they call it the gray zone, where instead of being all the way invested in one activity or another, like are you all the way invested at work while you're at work? And then are you all the way invested in vacation while you're on vacation? Or whatever it is. Like you're in the gray zone.

Where it's kind of like when you're working, you're kind of half doing it because you're thinking about other shit. And when you're on vacation, you're kind of like not really all the way disconnected because you're still trying to do some work. That's another thing. If you're living in the gray zone, which is kind of similar to really all the way disconnected because you're still trying to do some work. That's another thing. If you're living in the gray zone, which is kind of similar to the 80-20 concept, then you're never ever going to be as fully productive or as fully disconnected and recovered from being productive as you would otherwise.

I'm worried about that. Who is it, your guy, the California CrossFitter, used to be so good. He wrote the same book. He wrote, oh, come on. He's like NorCal or like. Ben Bergeron? No. NorCal.

Oh, Kalipa. Camera. Kalipa. Yeah, he was all about like whatever you're doing, you're all in at that moment on that thing. That was a great book. I love that book. Yeah, I totally agree.

It's super simple to understand. Yeah. When you're on vacation, be on vacation. There's a lot of good stuff that comes from that. If you read, what is it, the four-hour work week talks about, like, you know, unwinding. It's a pair. Yeah. Yeah.

And letting your brain just, like, you know, defrag a little bit. Yeah. That was my goal in college. Like, I didn't call it amort mentality or being present or whatever. But I remember talking to my mom, saying, like, my New Year's resolution was to just be doing what I'm doing when I'm doing it. Because when I'm at football practice, I'm thinking about my homework. And when I'm doing my homework, I'm thinking about my football plays

or whatever it is. If you can just be doing what you're doing when you're doing it, then life's a hell of a lot easier. That's great advice. We're going to wrap it up. I'm glad we got all that out. I feel good. You feel understood i i feel like the frustration of people is always frustrating yeah like i i'm never there's never

going to be a time in which everybody's really committed to a life purpose like i feel very grateful that i found something that i love and not a lot of people do that and i i struggle when people struggle because i just want to look at them and be like you did it yeah if you're unhappy you did it and it's not my fault and like or your mom and dad nobody's fault and at some point you just have to go you know what fuck everything today i'm different take responsibility today i'm going to put something in motion that in two years will be something and it could be food it could be working out it could be building a computer program it could be anything but like if you just do that one thing and you go you just commit to it and say i'm going all in on this and i'm

going to put a business plan for my life together so that I can create my future instead of just let it happen to me. People would realize that you own it and you don't have to just be a victim of your circumstance and live this laissez-faire 80-20. I'm doing it, but if I could just lose that extra last five pounds, then it would be super. You're not because it's every aspect of your life that you're just not buying in right to the success and like you're not whittling down the things that are important to you and you're not going all in on those things like i'm never going to be good at fixing toilets one day i hope i can make a lawn look nice just because i think it'd be cool but look let's be honest i'm not going to yeah it's it's a distant thing. Like, I want to be a great dad. I want to be a great husband.

I want to run a great business. And I want to be great at training. And I want to be very, very committed to those four things. Right now, when I talk to people and I'm like, look, I'm just not really in the mood for friendships. Like, I just don't have time to commit to that. And I'm sure your life is radical. And I'm sure you're an awesome person. I just, man, I got the people around me right now that I need, and they're my best friends.

They're also in business with me. They also do training with me. They also have families. They also have kids. They're also trying to be great husbands and great dads. And I don't have a line in which we're in business and you're my friend and right now we're doing friend things and not business things no we're all trying to grow a life that matters and we can influence people and affect people's lives in a positive way and the way that we do it is

through strength and conditioning yeah and nutrition and if you're not in on it, man, it's really hard for me to want to give any time or energy to you. And that's, I don't know if people really want to hear that. And I don't know if it's the right thing to say it out loud. You just see it. So it's like a system of people and the way that they think and the way that we don't put the pressure on people to want to be great at something it's okay to be average we make it very easy to be average and very socially acceptable to be average and it just drives me nuts because i truly do not want to be average i have no interest in that and it a lot of people can say it, but are you waking up at 4 a.m. to write the book?

Yes. If you're not, I don't know. Yeah. Okay. That's fine. Good luck. We might just not be doing the thing together. Yeah. And sometimes I'm going to write a vague FU on the internet

that says if you're not 100% committed, if you're 100% you're going to fail 100% of the time if you do anything at 80-20. Standing by. I love it. Trap Smash. Where can people find you? Mashley.com.

You know where they can find you at 4 a.m. writing a book. Yeah, don't mess with me. Mashley.com. Don can find you at 4 a.m. writing a book? Yeah, don't mess with me. Masterly.com. Don't email me at 4 a.m. I mean, you can. I'm not going to answer. He's not going to answer.

Yeah, and then Instagram, Masterly Performance. Beautiful. Soon I'll let you know my TikTok. We'll build it at lunchtime here. I love it. Doug Larson. Follow me on Instagram at Douglas E. Larson. I'm Anders Varner, at Anders Varner.

Send me all the hate mail you want. Not really. I hope you guys enjoyed this. But if you send it to him, give it your all. Yeah. I want 100%. I don't want all of it. I'll screenshot it.

Explain your 80-20 mindset. I'm at least going to be proud of you for committing to the DM. Yeah. We are the Shrug Collective at Shrug Collective. OneTonChallenge.com. Squat, dead, bench, snatch, clean, jerk. The goal is 2,000. 1,200 for you ladies.

Testing the lifelong pursuit of strength. Get over to OneTonChallenge.com forward slash stronger where we are making strong people stronger. 97-page e-book. Can't wait for you to get in there. OneTonChallenge.com forward slash stronger. See you guys next week. That's a wrap, friends.

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