Barbell Shrugged - The Best of: Olympic Weightlifting

Episode Date: November 30, 2015

ft. Kendrick Farris, Justin Thacker, Diane Fu, Louie Simmons

Hey, this is Rich Froning. You're listening to Barbell Shrugged. For the video version, go to barbellshrugged.com. Over the last 200 episodes, we've talked with some of the greatest athletes and coaches in the sport of weightlifting, including Kendrick Ferris on episode 55. While we were together, we talked with Kendrick about how his career has evolved over the years, how CrossFit is injecting new life into the sport of weightlifting, and how far his love for pancakes really goes. Alright, Mike Bledsoe here with Barbell Shrug. Doug Larson and I are here on the show. We are at University Nationals at East Tennessee State University. And we brought our team. Faction Weightlifting Club came and competed.

Everyone put up good numbers. Nobody bombed out. Yay. That's always a good sign. We also have our second-time guest, Alex Macklin. Hey, everybody. He's back. Back from the very first episode ever.

That's right. Number one. That's right. And we have Kendrick Fer Hey, everybody. He's back. Back from the very first episode ever. That's right. Number one. That's right. And we have Kendrick Ferris, two-time Olympian. He's going to be competing this weekend, a Pan Am qualifier. And we're going to get into a little bit about his weightlifting career and how he trains so you can learn how to be big and strong like him. First, make sure to go to the website, barbellshrug.com.

Sign up for the newsletter, go to our Facebook page, click the like button, and follow us on Twitter, at Barbell Shrug. All right, guys. Hey, Kendrick. Yes, sir. What's up, man? What's going on, guy? So, you're a two-time Olympian.

Yeah, I just happen to be. Just happen to be. Yeah. How long have you been weightlifting? So, I've been doing it, you know, 15 years plus now. Oh, my goodness. All right, can you hear me? Yeah, so I've been doing it for 15 years, man.

We started after the 1996 Olympic Games. USA Weightlifting started 12 satellite programs around the United States. And Shreveport, that's my hometown, Shreveport, Louisiana, they put in a bid for it. And they got one. And, you know, the rest is history. So, yep. And you recently moved up from 85 kilos to 94 kilos? Yes, sir.

What prompted that decision? And it was time. You know, you really have to listen to your body. Like, you start to get to the point, like, in your training and in, like, your competition career, and it's a struggle for you to, you know, keep the weight down and, like and constantly just make that weight. I mean, you just got to let your body weight just flow naturally, I believe. So I knew it was time to go ahead and move up.

I wish I would have moved up after the 08 games, but we can talk about that in a little bit. But I'm happy to be getting a good weight on now and training. Was it always a struggle for you to make weight? I mean, no. I was making weight pretty smooth, man, until probably around like 2010. So that was two years after the games. My coach, he wanted me to go up after 2008. But I was like, you know, I feel good.

You know, I think I can maintain. And then I'm doing the same dieting, same, you know, routine. And then my weight was just bubbling. I'm like, my goodness, what do I need to do? You feel like that's just a result of getting older? I think so. Just feeling out. Nothing else really changed?

Dude, just naturally feeling out. But like I said, I was able to keep it down through 2012, and I'm just excited now just to show up and just lift now. I don't have to worry about my weight. Just show up and come compete. Okay. And how old are you? 26.

Oh, shit, you're not old at all. I thought you were going to say you're like 34 and your metabolism was slowing down and you were getting old. So I'm 26. Dude, I feel like it. I'm like, dude, think about it. I've been doing 15 years, same gym, still training the same gym, same coach. My whole life is like one workout.

I went to the gym when I was 11, and it's like today I'm 26. It's crazy. Yeah, it sounds like you had a pretty long career. I was not expecting you to say 26. 26, man. You started early. Started early, man. Started early, yeah.

Weightlifting just now is kind of getting more popular, and you found it 15 years ago. How did you even stumble into that? So it was the same way. Is it tight? Just what we talked about, man. My uncle, man, he read about the article in the newspaper about the weightlifting development center that they were starting in Shreveport. And, you know, just that Olympic buzz.

It was after the 96 games. And I was playing other sports at the time, but my uncle thought it would be a good idea for us to learn how to do the movements. I mean, I called him, but he was like, yeah, you know, that'd be good. You guys learn how to do some weightlifting supervised, so we went in a couple times a week learning how to do the movements and just fell in love with it. So you had a good coach from day one then? Oh, yeah, same coach, Dr. Kyle Pierce, man. Dude, he's the guru, man. He's like the Philson of weightlifting man he's he he knows his stuff like science he's all behind it and just doing doing it the old-fashioned way so and you've been with him since you were a little kid that's the guy that taught me how to lift man same coach that's lucky dude it's a blessing man dude just you get you find the right person

and uh you guys can just you guys really flow and groove together so yeah i had no need to move around or want to go anywhere else. I had no desire to, man, because I felt like everything we were doing is working. Yeah. Very cool. What is you're talking about moving up? When we were talking about weight class, you were talking about you're doing the same diet. What is your dietary habits?

Dude, my diet is crazy. So it's not like I was like really strict on it, but at the same time, there's certain things that I wouldn't eat. Like I say I don't eat junk, but it may sound like junk to somebody else, not junk to me. Love pancakes. I love gummy bears. I love candy.

Those are, like, my guilty pleasures, right? But at the same time, I try to make sure I'm eating, you know, five, six times a day. Those meals are, like, 400, 500 calories. I don't eat a lot of – I don't do the fried foods. I don't – I just don't do what I feel is nasty, like, just greasy foods. I don't do it. I just try to – a lot of i don't do the fried foods i don't i just don't do what i feel is nasty like just greasy foods i don't do it i just try to a lot of salads man a lot of grilled uh fish or grilled chicken um not a steak guy but a little pork chops you bake pork chops i'm i mean

i'm just dude just a country boy man i can i can put it down cornbread greens whatever there you go was it hard avoiding fried foods growing up in Louisiana? Oh, yeah. Because, I mean, that's what I was raised on, man. We ate a lot of fried foods, whether it be fish, chicken, whatever. Your turkeys, deep fried turkeys, all that stuff. I can have that maybe once a year if I want to just kind of indulge one day. But, nah, man, it's crazy, though. Just to kind of get away from that and you start competing, you're like,

all right, I know I can't have this because it's not going to benefit you in any way. So I'm still working on it, man. Do you take any supplements or anything? Oh, yeah. I'm going to sound real tacky right now. So, look, I'm going to shout out Progenex, man. And it's really progenics. I like to call it Progenex.

So, look, Progenex, man, I love their product. So I used to do, like, the GNC, like, muscle milk and all that stuff, like, in high school. And then I met Aaron Thomas. He's one of the owners of Progenix, man. And a dude came up to me, wanted me to try the stuff. I'm like, all right, I'm going to go to one of these dudes. Taste, I'm like, yeah, it tastes pretty good. I was like, but, nah, man, I would have to just try it in training.

I just left it alone, dude, contacting me. Got to get it in training, man, and tried it for, like, 12, 13 weeks. And I was like, yeah, it in training. I just left it alone, dude. Contact me. Got to get it in training, man, and tried it for like 12, 13 weeks, and I was like, yeah, it was legit. So I was like, that's all I take. Whatever Progenix makes, Progenix, whatever they make, that's the only stuff I take, man. Like the recovery? Dude, I do the recovery, more muscle,

the creole oil, and I just got the force and the cocoon. Dude, the cocoon is crazy. You gotta try it. I'm actually not familiar with the cocoon. What is that? It's crazy. It's the night. It's crazy. Listen to me.

Okay, so it's their nighttime recovery, right? Okay. You take it right before you go to bed. It's supposed to slow down the digestive system, help the muscles repair while you're sleeping. That's really the main time for your body to recover is when you sleep, right? So this is going to aid in that, man. It's really incredible.

I don't know all the ingredients in it. I know it's legit. It's on point. I let my boy Mike try something the other day. This dude, oh, man, he wants my bag. I'm like, no, you can't get the bag. I get you some, but it's legit, though. You know what's in it?

I have no idea. I saw like one advertisement for it, and it looked interesting, but I've yet to even see an ingredient list. I've never heard of it. I wish I'd have brought it up. I took it out of my bag right before I came here, dude. I ought to pull the bag of you guys to check out the back of the deal. It's crazy.

Is it like a protein mix with some other stuff? Yeah, it's a protein mix with some other things, man. Oh, okay, okay. They have like a ZMA or some other stuff that helps you sleep? Please don't ask me all that. I'm going to be real. I don't know. Dude. I don't know. Dude, I don't know all that stuff, man. Listen, I'm so sold on the whole brand.

It's like they come out with anything. I'll take it. I got you. I'm telling you, I'll take it. All right. A lot of brand loyalty there. I like that. I'm serious.

Everyone go to Progenix and check out the cocoon, right? Yeah, I think it comes out April 8th. That's when it's going to drop. It hasn't even dropped yet. It hasn't even dropped yet. So, look, you got the people fired up about it, man. That's all right. It comes out Monday, huh?

Yeah, Monday. We're on Instagram as the prophet, what is it, Trinidad James? As he would say, we're on Instagram straight flexing, man. Dude, we got the pictures of it just posting every day. It's crazy. I feel a hell of a lot better about not knowing what it is now. Now you're intrigued. You're intrigued, man.

I am intrigued now. I'll have to go get some. All right, so give us a little more about your background, kind of high school, if you lived in college, or if you just skipped college, or just kind of give us your progression. Winning competitions, obviously you went to the Olympics. What are kind of your most notable things leading up to that?

I would say my first international competition, it was in Canada. I was 14. I was fired up about that. It was the Louis Sear competition, just a junior meet. I didn't get second place at the competition, but I was just fired up to be able to leave the country and compete. And I was like, man, once I did that, I was like, man, I'm going to make the Olympic team.

I'm making it in 2004. But I graduated from high school in 2004 and I didn't even qualify for the Olympic trials to go and try out for the Olympic team. So I was like, dang, I got some work to do. Okay. Do you remember what your lifts were back then when you were 14, what your weight class was and what you were hitting? When I was 14, I was a 69 kilo lifter i think i had um 80 kilo snatch uh and a 100 kilo cleaning jerk so wow yeah okay so a little over body weight and close to body weight and a half as a 14 year old kid that's pretty solid pretty solid that's pretty solid me hitting that right now i'm like i did it good day that's some good numbers man what's your what's your take on crossfit and weightlifting and that kind of like that that crossover that's happening dude i i love the crossfit community

man i really love what the sport is all about i love what the community is about um you know and it's bringing a light you know to uh back to uh weightlifting you know just that whole the whole sport uh you know i know a lot of people, man, they rag on CrossFit. I don't, I don't get it. Doesn't make much sense to me. I'm like, man, it's, it's, it's weird. I don't know. I love it, man.

It's like, what's the point of ragging on it if it's, if it's presenting you with an opportunity, whether it be to go help people or whether it's bringing, you know, more people into the sport. So I don't know. I don't get it. I'm all, I'm all for CrossFit, man. Yeah. I mean, it definitely, it definitely has increased the number of people who even know I don't get I'm all for CrossFit man yeah I mean it definitely

it definitely has increased the number of people who even know what weightlifting is yeah you can appreciate you know the skill involved in it so yeah I mean I didn't know what weightlifting was until I started doing CrossFit so it's crazy people people stop asking me like how much can I bench press and now they're like they're like do you squat? They're like, how much do you squat on? They're like, how much can you clean and jerk? I saw the CrossFit Games. And so, it's cool, man. So, what are your best I guess, clean and jerking snatch

as of now? The best snatch I've done, I did a 162 kilo snatch in training. I did a 211 clean and jerking training. Damn! Wow. What's the world record for clean and jerk in training. Damn. Wow. What's the world record for clean and jerking? 218. Was that 85? Yeah, that's an 85.

Those are my best lifts in training and competition. 203 in the clean and jerk and 160. Doug, the spreadsheet Larson, can you put that into pounds for the viewers? What, the 211? You know the pounds. Yeah, 465 and the 162 snatch.

That's, what is it, 356, 356 pounds. Wow. Had a body weight of 187. Had a body weight of 187, yeah. Do you have any words for John North? He didn't come this weekend. I thought he was coming. Where the boy at, man?

I talked to him last week. I'm a Christian, man. I don't want to curse on your podcast. John, I was looking for him. I was like, dude, come on, man. He could have gotten a car. He could have drove his tail down here, man. That's what I'm going to say.

We're supposed to have a pancake challenge, eat off or whatever, and then I know he's going to lift in the Pan Am deal. He's on the start list. He was supposed to lift. He need to be here. I was looking forward to seeing him lift. I think I saw him on – he posted on Facebook that he just opened his new gym today or this weekend in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Yes, I had pictures up. Yeah, so maybe he's busy with that. Still, he should have brought his tail down here, smashed the waist here, right, with his slam bars and kill PRs here. That's right. And then he could have opened up the gym Monday because you got the buzz from the weekend, and then you open up the gym Monday. Priorities.

That boy had a plan, man. Then you guys could have had a pancake-eating contest. And we're going to have a pancake-eating contest. I'm like, come on, man. That would have been epic CTTK material. Pancakes for PRs. Yeah, pancakes for PRs. Charity event.

That's going to be a new t-shirt. You heard it here first. Those are coming, though. The pancake for PR t-shirts. Oh, for real? Yeah, real life, though. Oh, hell yeah. I think, Kendrick, you coined Those are coming, though. The pancake for PR t-shirts. Oh, for real? Yeah, real life, though. Oh, hell yeah. I think, Kendrick, you coined that.

Yeah, man. We coined it, and then I saw that. Is that really going to be an event during the CrossFit Games? What's that? The pancakes. Eating pancakes? Did you not see that? Was Dave Castro playing?

No, no. I thought you were just joking. What happened? What's he? Okay, so listen. Dave Castro, I saw he made the announcement. I'm serious. It was like pancakes.

He was like, you're going to eat, I think it was like chocolate pancakes or something. I was like, dude, can't be serious, man. I was like, dude, I probably can't do a handstand push-up for reps, but I can smash some pancakes. I'm like, let me in, man. Have you ever done any CrossFit workouts? Never, never. I got one coming this summer.

My plan is to go to the CrossFit Games this summer and I'm going to do my first workout there. I'm going to do something that's weightlifter friendly. You should do Isabel. 30 snatches for time. Yeah, 30 snatches for time. What is it? 60 kilos? Yeah. Or 130 pounds? Oh yeah, I'm going to kill it. What's the record? Seriously, what's the record? Probably under a minute.

It's around a minute. I can do a minute. A minute 14? A minute 4. I don't know if I can do a minute 4. I can keep it under a minute yeah i can do a minute a minute 14 minute four i don't know if i don't know if i can do a minute four i can i can keep it under a minute and 15 seconds for sure i just i can i just know this i don't i don't need it to be doing snatches no i'm serious man not even not not to sound like that guy but listen to me 60 kilo snatch, 30 reps, right? Yeah. Yeah, I can handle that. They're not me, dude. Have you looked at them and then looked at me?

I'm being serious. I want video evidence. I'm so serious. Listen, this summer I'm planning on being at the CrossFit Games, and I'm planning on doing my first CrossFit workout. It has to be weightlifting friendly, like I said, so I'm going to do Isabel, right? 30 snatches. I'm not going to lay out after I do them.

You're going to walk away. I'm going to walk around and I'm going to high-five the people. Do something different at the games. You come to Memphis and do Isabel with us. When are y'all doing it? When are you trying to do it? We'll do it whenever. Whenever.

See, I said, look, he wanted to say whenever. Let me get another. When do you want to come out? We're doing the barbell shrug, the weightlifting championships, where we do the barbell shrug total. Snatch and back squat. We're having a weightlifting meet at the end of October. We'll do that. We'll do. That the Barbell Shrugged Weightlifting Championships where we do the Barbell Shrugged Total. Yeah, we're having a weightlifting meet at the end of October. We'll do that. We'll do a weightlifting meet, and then we'll do Isabelle afterwards.

Dude, I'll be ready for sure because, look, this is my first training cycle I've got under my belt, right? So I took some time off after the Olympics, the games in London, and just started back up in January, first training cycle under my belt. So I get some more training done, some training cycle under my belt so I get some more training done some more weeks under my belt dude I'll be good to do whatever honestly what you guys do workshops for uh and do you guys do that primarily with CrossFit gyms yeah you know the weightlifters they know everything so they they don't they don't invite us in they know everything

oh yeah yeah of course they don't need need any help. So they know everything. So, dude, the CrossFit community is really embracing what we're doing. So, you know, we go in and we're breaking down the Olympic movement, snatch, clean, and jerk. We do three different jerk styles, do the question and answer, of course. And then, you know, we do a demonstration as well. People like to, you know, they want to see you kind of move some weight. So we'll do that. But, dude, really just to break down lot of this, what I call bull jive. I see a lot

of bull jive out there. Yeah, seriously. I just want people to be successful. I want people, and also I don't want people to get hurt. So I don't know. I just see a lot of different things out there. And I'm like, eh, I don't know about that. But it is more one way to skin a cat. So I can't say I know everything. What do you guys do that's different than maybe some other workshops? So there's a ton of weightlifters doing seminars for CrossFit gyms. And, you know, we actually interview a lot of those guys. We've talked to Justin Thacker, Zach Critch, John North. What's different about how you guys approach things?

I feel like my approach to it, like I said, it's a blessed gym tour, so we get to talk about the mindset a lot, you know what I mean, and a lot of people, they overlook that. And the lifts, I mean, the lifts, there's no way around what we're doing. Everybody's going to be covering the lifts if it's a workshop, seminar, right? But what I'm doing, I feel like my approach is different only because we're tackling more than just, okay, what is this natural life? What is this position?

Of course, we're handling the positions, but at the same time, your mindset is very important into going into doing these movements, going into training just a day in and day out, how you're overcoming obstacles. I mean, I've been there. So I think what I can do, I can relate to the people very well in that sense. So I just feel like that's the different

approach i'm bringing man we just spread in love man that's what it's about so do you teach people i guess like cues when they go to lift or mental cues or how they want to perform the lift when they get on the platform or anything like that like well yeah i mean i give them i give them the cues that uh you know that i that i tell myself right but i'm telling you man we we we dig a lot so we just try to we try to get get to know the person in that short amount of time that we have. But at the same time, we just try to find what triggers in their mind and what helps them work. Dude, we iron that position out.

That's really the most important thing. The positions are key. And then we just deal with the mindset, right? Everybody that comes in, they know how to do the lifts. So we got to see what we got to work on upstairs first and then everything else will follow. Kyle Pierce's program is known to be more strength-oriented versus a lot of other weightlifting programs.

Is that reflective in the seminars you guys do, the workshops? Well, the workshops are really quick, man. They really just tackle the lifts. People ask questions about that, but we're starting to do the training camps now. Like I have a training camp that's coming up it's uh gonna be uh april 16 to 17 it's gonna be out in los angeles um i'm saying los angeles i'm a country boy so it's gonna be it's out in los angeles at uh i think it's a paradosa crossfit i think that may be like santa monica the santa monica area but um that's gonna be the training camp where we focus more on

the strength stuff and you know what i mean and some technique things as well but the workshops you're really just breaking down the movements. And like I said, people have questions about, you know, strength questions about how can I strengthen this, how can we do this, and then we answer those questions. So the workshops are mostly technique, and now the training camp's added in the programming? They add in the programming and in some technique stuff.

Because the strength and technique, man, they go hand in hand. You cannot sacrifice one for the other. But with the workshops, man, we're really just trying to like i said uh break break down some of the myths about the lifts right and a lot of the gimmicks or whatever that's out there and just help people with the positions and just you know and the positions and mindsets in the workshops but man the training camps we're going to turn it up a little bit like you'll be doing squats we'll be doing deadlifts we'll do some of the um the olympic movements but we're going to do more like strength based things in the training camps how long are these training

camps go dude the training camps are two days man so we'll do two days and uh they're going to be for two days so um like the one in la we got i think the first time is starting at like 12 30 to 2 30 and then we have another one that'll go from um we pick it right back up it'll go from uh i think three o'clockclock to 5 o'clock. So it'll be two hours, two a days. Wow. I know a lot of weightlifters don't prefer to deadlift, and you just said the word deadlift.

So you're a big fan of deadlifting. Yeah, I'm all about it. You talking about like a clean grip deadlift or a snatch grip deadlift? Is that a powerlifting style deadlift? Nah, nah, nah, nah. Okay. Weightlifting.

Hands over here. I don't do the, what it first grip well i'm also talking about bar path high hips or yeah do you do like the high powerlifting hips or do you do you try to mimic the snatch and the clean right that's listen and that's what it's about so you have a lot of lifters that i feel like they run from the deadlifts because they're heavy right but man it's about building it over time so look we're doing the deadlifts because they're heavy, right? But, man, it's about building it over time. So, look, when we're doing the deadlifts, it's to mimic the movement so it transfers over.

I don't do the deadlift like a deadlift. I don't think to move slow. I think to move like I'm about to do a lift. So if you see my lifts, like, people are like, man, he's moving so fast and so violent. I'm like, dude, think about it. I'm deadlifting 230 kilos for reps, right? And we're doing it for position work at the same time.

How do you think 200 kilos is going to feel? How do you think 180 kilos is going to feel when I pull it off the ground? Like nothing. Because, I mean, one of the main things, like, when I do a lift, if it feels light coming off the ground, my confidence that I'm going to make the lift is so much higher than if it, you know, is a grind coming off the ground, you know? So, I mean, yeah, doing a heavy deadlift,

you know, lifting several kilos below that, it's not going to feel like anything. So do you go off a percentage of your deadlift max or are you going off a percentage of your clean? Or do you work with percentages at all and just go by strength by feel every day? No, no, we work off percentages, but at the same time, it's a percentage feel. That's the way our training is set up.

And I know it sounds kind of funny because people like you yeah pretty much yeah so like you have you have a target number so they say if you aim at nothing i mean if you what is the aim at nothing that's usually what you would hit right right so we have the target percentage and then you base it how you feel so you feel really good knock out that percentage if it feels okay we're going to make sure we'll take it down a little bit and make sure you get the reps in how many times a day do you do you train twice a day once a day just one time one one time a day five days a week another incredible weightlifting coach we've met through our travels over the years is justin thacker from the lab gym in st louis while with justin we talked about the thacker abcs which is his uniquely effective warm-up method for learning how to do the olympic lifts

also we learned how he programs for both beginner intermediate and advanced athletes which is his uniquely effective warm-up method for learning how to do the Olympic lifts. Also, we learned how he programs for both beginner, intermediate, and advanced athletes. And then finally, we talk about the most common training mistakes new CrossFitters make when trying to learn the sport of weightlifting. Welcome to Barbell Shrugged. How's it going? I'm your host, Mike Bledsoe. Co-host, Doug Larson. That's me.

Our guest, Justin Thacker, weightlifting coach and competitor from the Lab Gym. So, Justin, go ahead and give us a little bit of background about yourself for all the people that didn't see episode 34, which you were also on when we went up to St. Louis to check out the Lab Gym. So, tell us a little bit about yourself for all the new people. I'm Justin Thacker from St. Louis. I am the owner of the Lab lab gym in st louis you can check us out at labgym.com but i've been a weightlifter for many years i started in the sport of powerlifting actually about age 10 and got involved in olympic lifting when i was 17 and i've pretty much been obsessed with the sport ever since and been a competitor competitor for a very long time and recently over the last few

years i really got more involved with coaching. And I've just worked with everything from CrossFitters, Olympic lifters, all sorts of different types. But now the gym is starting to become more involved with seminars and different things of that nature. So you might see us in your neighborhood soon. We all three, Doug, me, CTP went up there for the weekend. We podcast with you for Episode 34. That was back in, say, October, CTP went up there for the weekend. We podcast with you for episode 34. That was back in, say, October, November.

And I really liked the facility, and the energy at the lab was really cool. And so I think it was about a month later I came back and trained for a whole week without the guys, just by myself. Spent a week, took a traincation. And during that period of time, just the stuff y'all were doing, I was like, man, we need to get together and do something together because you've put together, like, this really awesome system. You know, I've never seen a coach manage that many athletes that well

and have a system for developing athletes from the beginning to the most advanced athletes that are competing at the national level. So I was just really impressed at how not just like your ability as a coach, but to be able to pass on information. Because I've run into a lot of really great coaches, but like you don't know what's going on in their head. You know, you don't know what they're thinking. And they're just not, they're good at communicating with the athlete only, but they're not really good at making you understand why. And you've done a really good job of making people understand why. And I'm hanging out in the gym and there's just a lot of really good things happening there. And I was like, man, you're in this one gym.

I think the whole world kind of needs to see what you got going on. Right, right. Yeah, to Mike's point, I really like how you are able to classify people into beginner, intermediate, and advanced and give them all a training program that really fits their current level. Can you kind of talk about how you structure programming for guys at different levels? Right, right. So it really comes down to seeing where they're at, what their common problems and faults are, you know, what are their goals with the sport. They're just trying to, you know, learn the lifts and compete at the local level or just try not to hurt themselves and things of that nature. So once we classify where they're at, you know, the programming starts to form around them.

So how much time can they commit to the sport? If it's going to be three hours a week or three sessions a week, then we've got to be really reasonable and honest about that. And you're going to be a beginner for a little while. You can't put as many hours per week into your training. So that's all organized accordingly. So as they, you know, they may advance from beginner to intermediate or beyond, but that's got to be proven through their movements and what flaws are there. And typically

a beginner is going to be someone with technical flaws, positional problems. They can't get into the actual respective positions that need it to be in for the lift. And that's the first thing that we got to pass through. So once that's technical, the technical aspects are there and they're consistent, then we can start to add on more training. So we're past the rookie stage there of having to just learn how to lift and not hurt yourself. So then we need more tonnage, more strength training type stuff. We need more hours in the week, basically. And that's where we might start to see the intermediate form.

They've got their consistent technique. And they start to work on the other elements. And from there, they may stay in that position for a long time until they really want to step up and put more time in and more days per week. And they can handle the lifts like it's no big deal it's coming in it's like tying your shoes uh shooting hoops or something and they can do snatch and clean jerk at a high intensity very frequently not hurt themselves not be wiped out for a week so that's kind of how i look at where they're at and those uh three different levels what their actual goals and ambitions are but

um you know there's you know the beginner could be from a master's level old lifter with bad positions to the junior level lifter who's just trying to figure out what the hell they're doing. So for the beginners, it's more barbell position type work and then more traditional strength training to get them strong. And then as they become more advanced, it's adding intensity to the actual full lifts. Is that what I heard? Yeah, absolutely. So we're preparing their position so they are competent and ready to go

in, say, a front squat receiving position, overhead squat position. It's not going to be a new thing to them when they hit that with speed and aggression with a lot of power. Aggressively, they need to have a tight, organized position or they're going to get hurt. You know, and so ultimately our goal with, say, the younger lifters is to give them good positions. Good, you know, if you look at the lifts themselves in the full range of motion, it's a great optimal way to work out any muscle imbalances and total body athletic positions. So, you know, if they're anterior dominant or something like that,

they can't do an overhead squat. Well, we're fixing those problems early on as a youth, and they're going to maintain those as we go. But then as they can handle greater loads, higher intensities, their body's prepared and ready for it. And we don't run the risk of running them to the wall, you know. And you actually do get CrossFit coaches and just CrossFitters in your area. They may do their CrossFit wads and stuff like that at a box somewhere in St. Louis,

but they come to you specifically for the weightlifting. What do you most commonly see with CrossFit athletes? You know, what do you see and how do you fix them? Or do you just say, hey, unload the bar and we're going to go back to the basics like what how do you how do you handle that what i see first is they're the you know i love crossfitters because of what they're after and you know their ambition for getting after it you know that's when i see someone else coming in for just weightlifting sake it's all oh i want to perfect this motion with the barbell and they never want to put any weight on the bar crossfitters are kind of the mere opposite of that. So that's what I see is they kind of run themselves in the wall

too quick and what they're not really seeing, that's a good and bad thing. That's some of the best athletes you'll ever find, but their programming concept is so off. It's like you do need to practice this on its own more than once a week. Once a week would be phenomenal if you at least did that. But I've worked with Diane Diane Davidson went to the games last year as a master's level lifter. And she, you know, it was funny. She said, I can't believe how much it helps to do the snatch on its own once a week. I was like, you've got to be kidding me. Like, I do this shit six days a week for an hour at a time, and, like, I still need more work.

You know, so it's like they don't realize specializing in that and treating it in its own art form and its own skill set needs to happen on you know an actual programming so uh respecting the lift there and that means light loads uh basic stuff getting uh simple positions down so you when you go test it it's more mastered and it's a reaction i see a lot of programs out there a lot of blog programs it's like find your 2rm it's like it's like right every time weightlifting is programmed, it's like a max lift. There's none of this like, you know, find a moderate load, you know, 75%, 80%, and practice hitting that, you know, eight sets of two or something like that. You don't see that very often. It's usually like, you know, go balls deep or not at all. Right.

And they need to go somewhere in between. Yeah. A lot of people want magic to happen too. I do. Yeah. I love magic watch this magic bam but the what the uh so but a lot of the programming that uh justin implies is it's hard work and it gets

results bottom line if you're there and you uh show up to each workout every day you're gonna get the same results but what a lot of crossfitters come to us for and why they stay with us is that we do structure your program we have reasons for absolutely everything and you got to hold yourself accountable at the end of the day and that's 100 of the truth at uh the lab is if they're not hitting the numbers we just look back to what happened we everything's recorded on a daily basis and they're like you know shit i fucked up look back to what happened. Everything's recorded on a daily basis. And they're like, you know, shit, I fucked up here. I didn't show up for two weeks when it was hard.

And people are looking for just absolute gurus and magic to happen, and there isn't. You've got to put the work in to actually get something out of it. And that's what I think most CrossFitters are lacking right now is they're willing to work harder than their wads. But when it comes down to organization and programming to the basic stuff and just getting stronger, there's nothing there. That's actually a really good point.

I like how you said there's a reason for everything you do. That's actually one of the things that I look for when I'm looking for a coach for myself or if someone asks me, you know, is this person a good coach or a bad coach? If you ask them about their program, why is this in there or why is that in there? They give you a very good, well-thought-out reason for this is why I put it in there. I thought about this, put this in there, but in your particular situation, that's not a good idea. And so I did this instead. Whereas guys that don't have a lot of experience and aren't really very good coaches, they're like, well, and they kind of hesitate.

And they're like really not sure why it's in there they know it's a good idea you know you could say put put front squats you know five sets of triples or whatever and they know it's a good idea but they can't really give you this really well thought out rationale for why that specifically is in the program and why they chose that over all the other millions of options that are out there and so you I like how you said that, where you guys know exactly why you put every single minute piece into your programs. You have a rationale for it. Maybe touch on that, like how you guys put together your programs

and why you choose the specific things you do, which is a super broad question. No, no, it really is part of... Explain your program. Talk about the stuff you know. Well, it's basically why I went into all the background. We looked at probably 12 different countries in the seminar there and actual pages out of their manuals of what they're doing in their training

and to understand that philosophy. But that's been the nightmare of my whole career. I've spent probably a decade experimenting with those things and wasting a lot of time. It was good for me as a scientist of, say, weightlifting to really figure out cause and effect and what the hell was I missing why did i still suck you know so uh that was really educational for me in order to understand you know okay this this romanian program has got a million different things in it this russian program's got all these options why are we doing

this and that drove me nuts and uh to understand that it was just a desperate thing that i needed personally to to go to the next day of training and really fully commit to it. But at the end of the day, you learn. Why does this error occur? What drill is going to fix that? What cue might do it? It could be a simple cue. And from there, why is the lifter making it? Is it because their start position sucks or because they're thinking about something else? Or they're overcoached or they got too many ideas in their head? So you see that over and over and over and over. And you see why people self-destruct. You look at it on video. What are the common problems? And you can start to diagnose that and fix it up. And that's why I like to use the ABC approach that we talk about. That's what I'm about to bring up. Perfect. I can see immediately what's taking place and what's wrong.

When we slow things down, it's like having a snapshot there and we can fix it immediately and fix so many problems. And what I've found really is people start positions and the way they come off the floor with the bar is the root of 80% or more of the problems so when they're breaking the part they're not completely locked into the place they should be no matter how whatever that position might be they're just not doing it well enough they're not staying tight they're they're getting loose they're thinking about killing the bar in that final pull uh when they're in all kinds of awkward positions getting there so it destroys the whole lift from the get-go yeah so we did like a i think it was a four-part series on technique quad for your your weightlifting warm-ups which you call the abcs can you kind of walk us through kind of what's involved in the abcs and why

why they're structured the way they are well so it starts with uh some position stretches that that lead into the squatting quad uh sequence there and the point of this is there's the common errors i've seen on lifting is people have the positions, range of motion, flexibility first of all to get in the appropriate start position receiving position, the rack positions and that's the first step you've got to consider. If you can't get in position, do not do the lift. You're going to hurt yourself. So it starts

with that but it's basically an easy part of a warm up. I can get in position but I'm still stiff and tight every day I walk into the gym so I use it as a simple warm up. For another lifter it might be an assessment and diagnostic tool, and that's what a coach can use to see is this person ready to lift or not. So it starts there, but then we go from the squatting quad position, which is simply a position with the bar in mid-thigh,

and we're getting down to a low position that looks like a start position. And from there, what we're doing, the next major problem from not getting position is not getting the bar close to the center of gravity and utilizing the hips. So they never find that, what we call it, the G-spot. Now, after this weekend, no one knows where it's at. If you watch the seminar, you know what the hell I'm talking about. It's a big mystery. Hey, hey, hey, I found it.

I know where it's at. I know where it is. So getting there, they never find that power position from the hips, and they never get the power that they're capable of. And they see people doing it, like, wow, they look so easy and amazing, just like these Chinese guys, and they're get the power that they're capable of and they see people doing like wow they look so easy and amazing just like these chinese guys and they're never finding that position so the squatting quad position the bar mid thigh gets it there easily and they know what it feels like to do the lift that's how we teach the actual pull so from there they're doing it right every

single time from the power position and when at the same time they're developing the flexibility at the ankles knees hips to pull low from the floor and they're working on the right center of gravity coming from the midfoot or back more towards the heel. A lot of times people with poor flexibility will fall forward, and they're going into the toes and ball of the foot, and everything's falling forward. And their positions further suffer because they're in such a bad position. So that's the second series.

Then after that, we start working the bar from the floor in a pausing sequence, or the B series. And that's where we pause at the floor, knee, and hip, and really work on each position and every nook and cranny of the posture of the lifter that might break down. So we're reinforcing the perfect position every single time. And from there, as they start to master it, we start peeling off some of those layers. And that might be the pauses at the hip and the knee.

And then eventually we start adding layers of speed and put the whole lift together at that point. So it goes from positions and problems of range of motion to finding the hip to actually nailing the pieces of the S curve from the floor up. And from there, as they start, they go through all the ABCs and learn all those positions, and that's actually the workout on its own. But from there, we start to take out more pauses, and they become an intermediate lifter, and they have to do less and less of that front work.

And they can start to lift more weights. Okay. So for the audience, if all the stuff he just said sounded like kind of the same thing and like it was all just weightlifting stuff, then you're probably still a beginner. Yeah. And if it all made total sense and you recognize the very intelligent, well thought out progression through the lifts and why he made each change as it went along, then you're probably advanced. So if you didn't know, now you know.

Absolutely. This should all make perfect sense. Real quick. So when I came to the lab the first time and I was introduced to the ABCs, it was very, very different than the way I was introduced to weightlifting. It was very, very different than most people are introduced to weightlifting. Did you pretty much come up with ABCs or did you adopt some ideas from other people? How did that come to be? That's a great question.

Now, first of all, I should say I was taught. or did you adopt some ideas from other people? How did that come to be? That's a great question. Now, first of all, I should say it was taught. Because I've been teaching. I introduced it to our weightlifters, and they were like, what the fuck is this? And then they started using it, and they were like, oh, man, this shit works. It really tightened them up. And now I introduce it to other people. I'm like, I kind of want to give credit where credit's due. It's a Thacker method.

Yeah, our six-month muscle gain program right now is doing the ABCs. That's awesome. Some category of them or some amount of them every single day. Awesome. And it's wearing them out, but it's definitely making them better. You see the difference in their positions. For the guys that are really doing it. Oh, man.

It's instantaneous. It's simple. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. And it's very specific, too. So it's like they don't feel like, okay, I've got to work from the hang the rest of my life and do these remedial parts with a pipe.

They can actually do most of the lift right away, and they at least see it coming together, and they realize immediately where their problem is. Okay, I keep fucking up that start position. I'm not staying locked in tight. And that's why we have that drill still there for them. But really, I learned in various methods, but ultimately the top-down approach kind of plagued me as well. The common method of working from the top down you know the problems i see there is it's nice it'll work uh we might use it as auxiliary stuff but uh we need to build the

lift from the floor up our goal is to lift the full lift from the floor and the abc approach does you know it came out of desperation i had a couple lifters that one particular that just couldn't get it down couldn't remember terminology couldn't remember the difference from a power or full snatch and all this. And so eventually I'm like, we're going to break this down in the most simple level. You're going to pause here, you're going to pause here, and you're going to pause here, and we're going to start building the lift this way

and almost connect the dots kind of a format. I was like, holy shit, this is brilliant. And I was like, I'm teaching everyone this way from now on. I'm so smart. It was my accent. So from there, I just started like, let's see how it goes when we do our on-ramp with this. And I was like, that was the fastest and easiest I've ever seen it come together.

And now I can take these pauses out because they've earned it. Where did you get the idea for the quad? Squat and quad. That's actually something I've seen. Squat and quad? Yeah, squat and quad. I've seen squat and quad, but I've never seen squat and quad into muscle lift. Squat and quad into, yeah, the snatch.

The squat and quad, yeah. That was new to me. The general position is just basically a stretch that I've seen millions of lifters do. You squat down, and you put the bar on your legs. Right. On your quads. The bar is right across my quads, and you're just kind of hanging out down there. You're not just hanging out.

I mean, you're trying to get your back tight like you're going to snatch. You're not going to like. That's how all weightlifters hang out. Yeah, it's just fine. No, they don't. They just sleep that way. No, they don't. Pat does. Just sleep that way. Pat does.

So putting the lift together from there, I really can't say where that ever came to mind. I started doing it as a lifter that particular piece several years ago, and so that was already there, and that was part of my warm-up. So I'd go from there, and I'm like, okay, I okay I'm gonna start putting my snatch together and it just happened to feel good I you know I noticed I really got the bar into the hip better and I just always did it that way and I'm like well I guess you know this position sucks when you're not flexible enough to do that get down there it is absolutely horrendous and that's why lifters do it to prepare that bottom

but from there I started feeling you know like if I have so-and-so do it what happens and eventually that evolved to where we actually teach the pull from that position because it's it gets away from having to you're not doing the top down approach where you're building momentum they have to learn to lift them bottom up and so from there uh we started putting the piece together that pull together it still feels like you're jumping because the way you're standing as you stand you're like pulling from the bottom but you're not having to worry about the first pull right so it's like setting you up perfectly for you bypass the double knee bend. It puts your knee and your hip angle at the spot it needs to be in

without having to worry about all this shit between the first and second pull. You can't ever end up in a position where your hips are too high and you're too bent over. You're too toe heavy. You end up very upright in a good spot. When you pull from the floor and fuck it up, you're like, okay, that doesn't feel anything like what I was doing from the quad. Do you get arm bending issues with that with people?

They're starting with a bent arm in the snatch position or the clean position? If it's overwhelming from the first, this position is uncomfortable and they don't think about the little pieces there. But when they stand up, the arms should start bent and go to a straight position like loose ropes, get the hips, and then re-bend again.

But that's a common problem but usually pretty fixable. I see it more in the clean. Let's do a quick demo about what that looks like. Just scoot back. I can't swear. So the bar is across your lower thigh right above your knee. Elite level weightlifter here. Yeah, so the bar is on your knee or your lower thigh,

and then you're going to stand. You're skipping the first pull, skipping the transition. Your arm straightens until, there you go, the tiki torch. Something bad isn't going to happen in a second. There you go. This is the best day of my life. All right, so he's in the bottom of the squatting quad. He stands, arms get straight, bar hits, contact high, thigh,

and then he jumps, pulls, elbows high. So what Doug was talking about was you'd come through and you'd come through here and keep the arms bent. So the arms would have to go straight, hit the hips, then re-bent. Right, keeping the arms bent would be a problem. I'm asking, is that a problem for new people? Do they get to a straight arm commonly automatically or do they stay in that bent position in the clean i see that sometimes they got to be cute on that

but in the snatch usually if their grip is right uh it actually gets worked out fine and okay they just got to slow down the first part of it if they're coming if they're thinking about ripping from the early phase of that lift yeah and and they're ripping immediately that's a problem with tempo anyway so right if we just slow them down then they they take that out so So just stand up a little slower, then feel your hip and snap under the bar. So if you're a person at home who's trying this for the first time, you're there with a bent arm. When you stand, you probably want to stand smooth until you get to a straight arm. Don't go full speed and then go right.

Don't rip your arms out. Snap straight elbow and tear your bicep. Get your chin out of the way or you'll lose teeth. I don't want any liability with this. I've had people do that. But the bar stays so much tighter than you're used to. You're used to lifting around your knees and your body there, and it of the way or you'll lose teeth. I don't want any liability with this. I've had people do that. But the bar stays so much tighter than you're used to. You're used to lifting around your knees and your body there, and it keeps the way out. This is what it feels like when you do a correct lift from the hips.

Actually, that brings us to a great topic. You ever done anything like that? You hit yourself in the chin, drop the bar on your head, anything like that? I got a great video of me on YouTube of me dropping 287 on my head. Ouch, ouch. One of our longtime friends and an authority on coaching weightlifting is Diane Fu of Fu Barbell. Over the next two interviews,

we talk about why overcoaching is a bad idea, how to create an effective athlete-coach relationship, how to take responsibility for your own training, and what the Russians are up to. I discovered weightlifting through CrossFit and I discovered CrossFit through Adrian Bosman so if you guys know Adrian he's the head judge of HQ him and I have a long history we actually started off together in the fitness industry before you know we even both knew what CrossFit was about so he was my first introduction to CrossFit and like every you know good crossfitter when i

first got my first exposure to it i was like whatever this is i'm in i'm sold so i feel like i felt it can i can i tell the story is it okay if i tell the story of how this happened it's gonna go on record it's gonna be on podcast forever so adrian likes to tell this joke or he likes to put out there hey diane fu was my first Right. And it's true because I've been in the fitness industry for a really long time. 99, I think is when I started my career. And for a good five to six years of that length of time, I did something called fitness management. So I basically, you know, it is, it's really sexy. Not really, not really at all. So I worked for major commercial health brands. I basically overran their fitness department. So if you went up to the front desk and you're like,

hey, I want to potentially hire a trainer, you know, I would come marching up with a name tag on that said fitness director. That was my role. So I was grand opening a club down in South San Francisco at the time, and I was recruiting a staff of trainers to groom and, you know, make big this department down in South City. Adrian comes in at the time, a young kid, clean cut, doesn't have quite all the hair he has right now. And he sits down in front of me, he's like, hey, look, you know, I currently train up at the Circus Center in San Francisco. I work with a group of my friends, and they said I might be good at this and I should become a trainer. And so here I am. Interviewed him, guy's super intelligent, looks the part, well-spoken. And I was like, you're in. So about like, you know, a year goes by,

I become friends with Adrian and I see him one day in the corner kind of doing this thing up on the pull-up bar. It looks like he's having a seizure on the pull-up bar right so he seizes a little bit jumps down throws my dumbbells around a little bit goes sprinting out the front door comes back in and uh he jumps back up with a pull bar has another seizure picks up the dumbbell does his thing again and i'm just like dude what is this kid doing so i go over there i'm like i'm like what are you doing and i'm like so he tells me he's like look hey i discovered this little website called CrossFit. And they post up this workout every day. And you do these movements.

And it's a great workout. And I'm like, okay, whatever. Let's try this. So I try it. And I do, you know, some pull-ups. Not really. They weren't really pull-ups. They were on the Gravitron machine with some counterbalance weights.

Man, I love the Gravitron. I love that machine. Do you remember those things? I do. It's great for fat people. Not for me, of course. I, I love the gravitar. I love that machine. Do you remember those things? I do. It's great for fat people. Not for me, of course. I've never had to use it. I use it every day of my childhood, my early days training.

Yeah, they're pretty amazing. But I used it, did some dumbbell thrusters. You know, about 20 minutes later, I'm like laying on the floor in a puddle of my own sweat, like dying. Like I think, you know, you know how you can kind of taste blood sometimes in your throat. Yeah. So that was me. And I was like, this is awesome. Whatever this is, you know, I'm all in. So that's kind of when I converted into CrossFit. Anyways, a year later down the line, you know, I think every CrossFitter goes through this journey where, you know, CrossFit just ends up really saturating them. There's so much to learn. You got to be like a gymnast. You got to be a power lifter. You got to be an Olympic weightlifter. You've got to be, you know, good at,

you know, running. You got to figure out how to tie it together in some useful way. It's overwhelming unless you have a coach that's helping you put it together. You're super saturated. You're learning all these skills, but I find like about a year, year and a half into your journey, you're, you suddenly realize like you, you become a little more insaturated and you're like, Hey, look, if I want to become better at this sport of CrossFit, I have to start getting better at these individual skills. Right. Right.

A little bit of focus here and there. A little more focus, a little more planning, a little bit more concerted effort in different directions, right? And then pulling it back when you want to start generalizing again. Right. So that was when I decided to kind of get into the venture of weightlifting, because we have in the Bay Area so many great weightlifting coaches. I found a place down in South San Francisco, basically down the street from the commercial club I was working at at the time.

It's called the Sports Palace. It's run by my first coach, Jim Schmitz, who actually coincidentally now goes around and does the Cross and does some of the CrossFit seminars for Mike Bergener in the area. Oh, cool. Yeah, so he's now in the circuit, too. And so I ended up heading over there and walking into his gym. And back then, I'm going to say this, I really thought I was the shit. Am I allowed to say that on a podcast?

Yeah. I can't believe you said that. You can say shit however many fucking times you want. Oh, excellent. I was like, I really thought I was something kind of special. Because when the pool's really small, you can tend shit however many fucking times you want. Oh, excellent. I was like, I really thought I was, you know, something kind of special because when the pool's really small,

you can tend to be a big fish pretty easily. Oh, yeah. And it goes with youth. It goes with youth. Yeah, absolutely. We live in Memphis, Tennessee. Yeah.

It's a very small pond. Pond's pretty small, yeah. So, you know, I walk in. I am at this point at San Francisco CrossFit, you know, the top CrossFitter or one of the top CrossFitting females at the time.

You know, thinking my snatch don't stink. You know, my clean and jerk's not so bad. Couldn't have worded that more perfectly. My clean and jerk's not so bad either. So I thought I was going to go in and just get some, you know, technique cleanups and I was going to really wow some people. Right. Basically, I walk into this gym and not only do I not wow anybody, I have women that are basically half my size, you know, clean and snatching doubles what I can

clean and jerk, you know. And so, you know, it's really humbling, really fast. And what ended up happening is I spent some time there. I wasn't really quite improving at the rate that I wanted to and my gym, being the good coach that he is, he's like, look, if you really want to get good at this sport, A, your time is limited and B, and this is a trick, guys, he's like, look, when you're strong enough, when you're skilled enough,

when you feel like you've done enough, you can always go back to CrossFit and I was like, oh, all right, that makes sense. You know, give it like six months and I'll go back to CrossFit. And I was like, oh, all right, that makes sense. You know, give it like six months and I'll go back to CrossFit. It's been like six, seven years almost. Fell in love. Yeah.

When you, the first time you get that perfect snatch, when you are not, there's no perfect snatch, right? The first time when you really feel what it's supposed to feel like. That's what they say. Yeah.

No such thing as 10. You know, I went all in and I haven't gotten back out. It's, you know, it fulfills everything that I need in terms of, you know, entertainment, enjoyment, like meditation, like fitness. It's a complete, it's a complete set. I feel like in the CrossFit world, it happens with weightlifting only. Nobody does CrossFit and then like gets into powerlifting. They're like, I'm not going back.

They don't get into gymnastics. I'm not going back. It happens. They go into weightlifting and they're like, I'm not going back. They don't get into gymnastics. I'm not going back. It happens. They go into weightlifting and they go, I'm just going to be a weightlifter. That's true. That's true. Way more than any other. That's a really good point.

I never kind of put the two and two together, but it's true. People will get into weightlifting and stay in weightlifting. I've been in some gyms where I'm warming up. I'm at 50% of my one RM. Somebody wants to come fix you. And then someone comes over to fix me. And I jump backwards four inches. Right. But it's

50% of my one at max. Right. So, yeah, that's what I do when I warm up sometimes. It's not intentional. No, I'm usually very nice. I accept it and I go, okay, cool. You say thank you. 50 kilos later, they go, oh, okay.

One of my biggest pet peeves in the coaching world is when people overcoach. Every single rep you do, you get six pieces of feedback. And then after the next rep, you get six more pieces of feedback. And it's just too overwhelming. It sounds like you have a very simplified approach to it where you're not over there just hounding them on every single rep. About everything they're doing wrong. You can talk to some of my lifters in my club. If you're a new lifter coming into my club, chances are

I won't talk to you for the first time. They think I don't like them. It's not that severe, but really, it's more like I just want to let them do their thing. Beginners, once they get the framework, they need to have the framework. You lay that foundation with them. They understand, hey, what the first pull is, second pull is, whatever.

How to catch, how to be upright, once they've got that basic foundation, you just got to let them move. Don't ask your coach to overcoach. You know, I do find sometimes beginners, they just want all the information right now. And I always say that you're going to learn what you need to learn at the time you're going to learn it. You know, you can't force yourself to learn something new. Oh my God. So when I first started, you know, Jim Schmitz was my first coach, but I also, you know, coach Bergener deserves good credit because he's a CrossFit, he's the CrossFit SME, right? So, you know, I remember spending my early years watching YouTube videos of him coaching

Sage in the garage and doing the Bergener warmup and, you know, doing the snatch and, you know, listening to everything. And, you know, I find myself over the years as I become, you know, more mature as an athlete and more mature as a coach myself, you know, I find myself over the years as I become, you know, more mature as an athlete and more mature as a coach myself, you know, looking back to things like Coach B said back in those videos that are just like clicking a light bulb. Like, oh, that's what he meant. You know, and it really does. It takes time to sink in and nobody's going to learn it. You can tell somebody a specific cue to, you know, to perform a specific technique and you can yell it until you're blue in the face, but that athlete won't take it in

until they're ready. When they're ready, it'll just suddenly be a light bulb and they'll be like, oh, that's what you mean when you said chest up. Yeah. That's what you mean

when you really want my chest up. You don't want it down facing the bar. That's not what you meant. You meant chest. When you said chest up, my chest is up, right? It's so crazy because you're like holy shit how did you not know that why didn't you tell me chest up i told you chest up yeah i mean i've had the same things as an athlete too you know like uh years and years and years get under the bar i get under the bar and then uh i

visited two coaches in in a two-week period then I think I started dropping like another three inches. Right. Which allowed my snatch to go up like 10 kilos. Right. Like crazy. Like a 10% increase. Just because I could just. Get under it.

Oh, I'm supposed to drive my ass to the floor. Right. That was like, I was like, oh, I'm pulling under the bar with my arms. But it wasn't until I was like, I'm going to try and put my ass on my ankles that I was like as quickly as possible. And then I was like, oh, this is OK. I'm pulling under the bar now. Hey, guess what? It works.

It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah, totally. And then it felt easier to have your rights easier. I've had situations like that where you're saying something like, like, you know, better posture, chest up. And then it's not until you say, like, be tall or go taller or or hips forward or something like, you know, better posture, chest up. And then it's not until you say, like, be tall or go taller or hips forward or something like that. You've got to say, like, the same thing one slightly different way and then it just fixes like that. Right, right, right, right.

So the thing you said earlier about having different coaches and traveling around and training with people that are different than your everyday coaches, that's key for kind of getting it in your head in a slightly new way, which might connect with you. You know, it's really interesting. My athletes here. So, you know, Kristen and Newman, she's one of the coaches, super athlete. She's involved in the sport of Olympic weightlifting. She lives for FUBARBEL. She does powerlifting. You know, she's, she's super involved, a fantastic athlete. And, um, you know, we work out together a lot. We hang out. And we're always just being like, you know, she for a very long time had a problem with her jerk, right? She's had her first coach try to

fix her jerk. Didn't work. Her second coach tried to fix her jerk. It didn't work. And then like one day, you know, she was having problems. I was walking by her. I'm like, Hey, you should, you should really use your legs. And for some reason, just by saying that, she's like, Oh yeah, she used my legs and you know, and it clicked and she was, saying that, she's like, oh yeah, I should use my legs. And it clicked and she was clean and jerking over 100 kilos. Or jerking over 100 kilos. I mean, this woman's strong, so she has a strength that's just somehow that idea of,

hey, I should maybe use my legs, resonated with her. Where for other athletes, you'd be like, use your legs, they're like, I have no idea what you're talking about. I think the jerk is like commonly neglected as well you know because i think everyone's focuses on the pools right on the snatch and the pools and the cleaning the clean and then the jerk is like we just dip drive and you and you and

you step out and then there's like there's so many again that's one of those other movements the last few years i've just like been around some different coaches and they're like, oh, you're doing it wrong. And then now I see videos of other people and I go, oh, shit, everyone's making that same mistake. I feel the jerk is the most undercoached exercise that we have. It is the most undercoached. It has the least amount of, I guess, coaching literature I feel available to the general public. If you don't understand it, you're probably not going to coach it. You're like, oh yeah, you just do that.

Good job. I don't want to feel like an idiot by not knowing how to coach the jerk. Yeah, I feel like it is the most undercoached movement. There's so much literature. There's so much information on the first poll, the second poll. The snatch, the clean. Everybody wants to get better at the snatch. The snatch gets almost over-talked about to the point of just inundation.

But the jerk, if you go out there and you want to try to learn how to jerk, there's really not a lot of information aside from, hey, do a push press, and then go for the bar, step your front foot out. I'm like, that is not technical enough for people who really want to understand what the mechanics are of the lift. It wasn't for me until I was hanging out with Zach Critch. He saw me jerking. He goes, you're doing it wrong.

And I go, well, he may not have said exactly that, but that's what I heard. Because I'm a very negative person. No, I'm not. But you're not doing this right. And what had happened was he said, I have been doing it wrong for like a decade. And it wasn't until Coach Z came in to olympic training center or zigman he came in olympic training center and fixed zach critches who you know he's a practically a 200 kilo clean and jerker and then he fixed his jerk and he goes oh and so he shows up to our facility months after he started working with coach zigiegman. And then he showed me this.

And then I started putting it together. And it was one of those things where I thought that my jerk technique was perfect. That's a great teaser. You're going to have to teach me what you're doing later. Yeah, we'll get on the platform and I'll show you what he showed me. And I think his explanation was really maybe too in-depth. And there was just like a few things that I changed. But what's funny is I see people doing it all the time in competitions now.

I go, oh, man, I think I learned a secret. So who knows? I've been passing it on, and even people who I helped fix. Can you articulate what this is that he had you do? It was a big process, actually, because it was over a few different days of him watching me and making corrections. And we drew some lines on the floor. But just basics is my knee was traveling too far over my foot, on my front foot.

And then my rear knee was not very soft at all. And so I'm watching meets where guys are clean jerking like 140 kilos, and they're still doing that. They still get that stiffer back leg. The kickstand, I call it. Yeah. And it was one of those things where like now it's like there's some cues for it, but just letting that rear knee be soft and let it come down. I just see a lot of people, step out the knee travels over the foot

and they've got a stiff rear knee and if they just all of a sudden you're more up and down you can drop another two or three inches and the weight just just locks right in

it's like oh that was it but it's I feel like that's not it's kind of hard to just make a video about or there's a lot of going back and forth

between the athlete and the coach, I think, with that. Well, I feel with the jerk, and I'm just going to put this out there so it's on the podcast, is people have this misconception. It's not a misconception, I mean, because, again, there's no bad way to move, right? There's efficient, there's less efficient, and then there's what's right for the individual. With the jerk, I find people have this idea of they kind of launch the bar off their shoulders and they just go lunging for the individual. With a jerk, I find people have this idea of they kind of launch the bar off their shoulders and they just go lunging for the weight. And out of all fairness, if you were here with me and we were doing a basics class, that's how I teach it. I go, you do a push press

and you go for the lunch. You just break it down to the most simplest components and you go from there. Then we can just start to kind of make it more technical as we get the flow. You have to oversimplify oversimplify and so you know but what i see or what i feel people miss is that you know the tempo of the jerk as how i teach it is actually a one-two tempo and so the both the feet for many athletes if you watch them they land at the same time and you know for people who maybe have a very powerful leg drive they can get that bar high enough and they can land both feet and be able to step through that bar at the same time, right? But for a lot of people, the more efficient way to get through that barbell is really to think about landing that back foot first aggressively

and using that foot as an anchor to push the body through the weight. And a lot of athletes don't have that level of tempo. And a second idea that a lot of people miss on the jerk is that they don't use their shoulders right so in the clean in the snatch i feel people are really savvy and they go oh you know at the at the point of extension you want to shrug your shoulders well why do we want to shrug our shoulders right we don't want to lift that bar higher with our shoulders what we want to do is we want to make that transition from the second to pull third pull more aggressive so that shoulder punch or that shrug i say punch because i feel shr pull more aggressive. So that shoulder punch, or that shrug, I say punch because I feel shrug is a little passive, that shoulder punch is speeding up your transition from second to third pull. Well, guess what? There's a punch

in the jerk as well. So I want to dip, I want to drive. Now I've started to generate energy with my legs. I've got a strong trunk with my frame, I'm transferring the energy. Now I want to follow that impulse through with a punch of my shoulders. And that's going to rapidly accelerate me away from that bar and underneath the weight into my lockout. And so those are the two things that I feel like people are missing out a lot is they don't have a good timing or they don't have what I feel is more efficient timing with the feet. And they don't understand that there's actually also a punch to help speed up transition in the jerk as well. So there's a punch in the shrug or a punch in the snatch punch in the clean punch in the jerk as well and anytime i've ever taught that to people and had them practice without those pieces and then practice with those pieces

they're always invariably like oh my god i'm just under the bar it's so much faster yeah i found that uh a lot of people have a hard time grasp i had a hard time grasping the speed right which i needed to lock out my elbows and you know punch under the bar on the jerk until I had gone to the American Open for the first time as a spectator. And I went and saw like, you know, national caliber weightlifters jerk. I go, oh, the coach has been telling me to move faster, but I didn't know it was supposed to be that fast. Right. People don't understand. It was like a whole new thing. Yeah. They don't understand the mechanics for the speed of the jerk. And the jerk is the most violent lift of the three lifts. You have

to be the fastest because if you're not quick, you're not getting under the bar. That's just period. Definitely. Yeah. The two most novel things that I heard out of this whole podcast was, was the thing that you just said about having your back leg push you through the weight or push yourself under the weight. Like I've never, I've never said it like that at all, but, but I actually am excited to kind of take that back and try with our lifters to see how that connects with them. It's a one, two tempo. If they're not used to moving the feet like that, it's a little weird. And so that's when I introduced the idea of like hiding the volume. Like you gotta be like waiting for your elevator and like practicing your foot work. You gotta be like, you know, in the lunch line practicing it. But yeah, it's, it's, it's

kind of a weird tempo at first, but once you get it, you just, you know, in the lunch line practicing it. But yeah, it's kind of a weird tempo at first. But once you get it, you can literally see the athlete's entire frame move through and lock out under the bar. And so now when you're underneath 100 kilos and you're trying to go, how am I going to get this thing from the front of my body to the back of my body? Well, that's your answer. I think that's not something that people realize in a lot of cases that you are getting it from the front of your body to the back of your body, going from the front of your shoulders, basically, to over your scapula. Because if your arm's vertical and it connects to your scapula, then it's moving from here to here. It's going, either you're going forward or it's going backward or a combination of the two somehow. Exactly. Yes.

All right. The other thing that I thought was very novel and was interesting that you actually kind of put a tangible twist on it was knowing when the athlete was kind of out of the analysis paralysis phase and they have the smooth pole where they're not overthinking it anymore. And that's when you can come in and give them another cue and then something to think about because you know that they're not overwhelmed anymore. Right, right, right. I definitely feel that, you know, flow, I'm always about flow. Flow is a big thing. You know, I coach my athletes. I really want my athletes to end up being independent you know i don't want to necessarily be your coach forever that is never my goal right i don't want to be your coach forever i'm like just kidding you can be just for today

for today you can do yeah uh no i don't want to be i don't want to be their coach forever you know i want them to be able to develop you know independency to be able to sit there and be like hey what are my issues that i you know i want i have to solve you know i want them to be able to sit there and be like, Hey, what are my issues that I, you know, I want, I have to solve, you know, I want them to get in tune with the lift. So they're not always counting on that external feedback. Like, you know, as lifters, we really need to be, it has to be a combination of, we need to feel what's going on along with comma, there's a benefit to having an external set of eyes. Right. And so if my lifters can develop this independent feel of like, Hey, I know what's going on in the middle versus I just pulled and blacked out, then now they can start to solve the problems or I can start to solve problems with them. And together we can be more efficient.

This is Tim Ferriss and you are listening to Barbell Shrugged. For the video version, go to barbellshrugged.com. Barbell Shrugged is brought to you by you. To learn more about how you can support the show, go to barbellshrug.com and sign up for the newsletter. Welcome to Barbell Shrugged. I'm Mike Bledsoe here with Doug Larson and Chris Moore, CTP behind the camera. We have traveled to San Francisco.

We're here at San Francisco CrossFit, joined by Diane Fu. Thank you guys for having me again. Everybody loves Diane. There's nothing not to like. She's fantastic. You guys are very sweet. Thank you. When was the last time we were here There's nothing not to like. She's fantastic. You guys are very sweet. Thank you.

When was the last time we were here? November? So it's been about six months since we talked last. Six months. Yeah. And if you didn't watch or listen to that podcast, we did with Diane before. Shame on you, first of all.

Shame on you. Just go listen to that. Come back and listen to this because then we're just going to be catching up today. So what have you been doing the last six months? What's new? I know you've been crushing seminars, teaching people weightlifting, learning more about weightlifting because you're one of those people

that are always learning, unlike some weightlifting coaches who have their way. You know who you are. And if you don't do it this way, you're wrong. Right. But that's why I'm a big fan of Diane Fuchs. Thank you. Last six months, so lots has been going on. I've been seminaring like a crazy woman going around, but it's why I'm a big fan of Diane Fuse. Thank you. Last six months, so lots has been going on. I've been seminaring like a crazy woman going around,

but it's been great. You know, you get to, obviously, you guys know you get to go around, meet different communities, have many interesting conversations. Since then, I've also been in collaborations with some weightlifting coaches and athletes. Kendrick Ferris and I have a camp coming up

just next weekend. Oh, nice. Where we'll be kind of bringing our philosophies together and we'll be doing a three-day kind of training workshop for athletes coming down into Kalipas, NorCal. Was it last November that I talked to you guys? I think so, yeah. Last November.

So within that timeframe, I've had a chance to hang out with, you know, the Russian coaches and athletes that have been coming into town and doing seminars all over the world. You ran into Mr. Klokov, right? Mr. Klokov. Can he speak enough English to have a regular conversation, even if he can't give a well-thought-out speech? You know, his English, his spoken English, I have to believe it's getting better.

He obviously sees, and then he can give like, you know, singular word, like corrections, like, oh, you like, you know, yes, you know, I like, and then he'll put you in the right place. So he can move you to be in a mechanical position. So the information definitely got across, which also tells a lot of us, you don't actually need a lot of words to be a pretty decent coach. Right. Um, and then Yasha was there obviously to translate. And so, you know, he can definitely get by and he understands more than he can speak. He's been around the information I think enough. I really love how those guys and what you've done and some of the other names that have all jumped sort of feet first, full speed into the Instagram culture, coaching, sharing tips, just filming lifts and sharing what they're doing and engaging people.

I love Klokov's little tagline, like, we win together for his company. I think it's fantastic. Winner. Yeah, winner. Winner. Clothing company. Tearing down the walls and sort of just mixing ideas and getting together and, like, quit being in silos. And like you said, the coolest thing about what you're doing in these seminars and mixing it up with Kendrick and these other athletes is, like,

this sport will move forward if we get rid of our bullshit and mix ideas and make something better out of it. And just continue to share. You're not always going to nail it 100%, but the idea is just continuing to put your best foot forward. And then not believing that if you share something that has worked for you and you engage and mix, that something great won't come of it. You're not losing anything by sharing your ideas. It's only making the whole community better, including you. And here's the thing is people want to hear what you have to say. Sometimes I'll put something out and I'll be like, oh, maybe this is just too basic of an idea. And then the idea just blows up. And

I just sit there and I'm just like, whoa, okay. Like I didn't expect it to have this kind of response, but it did. You assume that these people know it. It hurts your ability to coach them. And then other times I'll put an idea out and I'll be like, I'm about to change weightlifting history. And I'll put it out there. Nah. Nobody even notices. And nobody really notices. So you just don't know.

I know. You're learning the internet, Diane. You're learning the internet and how it works. You know, things that I think is epic, other people don't. And things that I think are really basic that everyone should know, they don't. And they love it. So you just have to keep putting it out there. I think that's a really common thing for experts to do.

They put out a beginner idea. And the market for beginners is so much bigger that they get a huge response and they put something out that like they just learned. Yeah. And there's only like four other people in the world that like really get why that's so cool. They give you the courtesy applause. Yeah. You know, it's funny.

If you just put a picture, Photoshop a picture of a kitten snatching, you get like fucking 10,000 likes on Instagram though. That's the lowest level of the internet. That's what works every time. You guys want to know what my PR is currently on my Instagram? Oh, my PR. 10,000 likes on Instagram though. That's the lowest level of the internet. That's what works every time. You guys want to know what my PR is currently on my Instagram? My PR.

How many likes for what kind of content? How many likes? I don't know if I want to know. How many likes? No, it's actually not that impressive. It demoralizes me. No, no, no.

It's not that impressive. Have you gotten like 2K, 3K? Yeah, yeah. It's like maybe 25. I mean, it could be higher now, 26, 2700. But, you know, if I put a really good post out

and it's informational, I'll get around like 1300. I mean, in, you know, in the Instagram world, the large scale, not that, you know, whatever. Nothing to scoff at. Not that great, right? Whatever. But what PR for me on my Instagram was just this past Monday, Memorial Monday, I posted a photo of my bulldog sitting in the sun, enjoying the sunshine. And we happened to have this little American flag kind of placard, homemade placard kind of sitting on his side. So it kind of looked like he was just at peace and like almost being enjoying himself. Zen dog. Zen dog.

And I posted it up and it was this perfect photo. The lighting was great and all of a sudden it just started blowing up. Like people could not get enough of it and I'm just like, oh my god. Oh, and look who's here. Hey. The Kelly Star X. The Kelly Star X.

So, I mean, basically, my dog Hugo PR'd for me. I mean, it's amazing. Well, it drills into this basic emotion and elements. People just love to see something that just warms their heart. Yes. So combine more dog with your weightlifting coaching.

And you might wind up somewhere, kid. Yes. More Hugo in every single photo. What if you could get Hugo to snatch? That would be amazing. Dog to weightlift. I would have to retire from FUBARBEL and basically take my dog on the road. It was nice knowing you guys. I do hope we keep in touch.

You fellas are great. Enjoyed the ride while it lasted. So as a person who's gone around and learned weightlifting from many different coaches, what was the big takeaway from meeting Klokoff and the rest of his guys? So the big thing with the Russian pole is they teach. So in America, let's start here. Our baseline is we teach something called the S curve or the S pole, right? The bar is supposed to sweep in, it comes in, probably loop a little bit and supposed to create like a nice, beautiful S. So, you know, and the idea is, you know, get that as tight as possible for increased efficiency, right?

Bottom line. The Russians come in and they're like, well, no, not the S-pull. S-pull is very 70s. It's old. It's a little bit dated. Now they want something, what they call a very straight pull. So the bar basically from the floor comes up straight and they want to continue that bar path as linear as possible. So all of their movement is basically created around how to create this very tight pull. The other thing that's really interesting about the Russians is they're like, look, you know what? We want you to hang out on top of your pull a little bit longer. Meaning, whereas a lot of, you know, in the States, a lot of our coaches, when we hit that top level of extension, there's this idea of the shrug, right?

You know, to teach the shrug or not to teach a shrug. That's another debate. And so, and so, you know, our coaches will be like, okay, you know, once you hit extension, the shrug pulls you under, right? And what the Russians actually want you to do is at the top of the shrug or at the top of the extension, they want you to actively punch your ankles through the floor and then shrug to continue elevating the bar higher, which, you know, in the States, if we saw somebody do that, we'd be like, oh man, you're over pulling. You're staying on top of your pull too long. You're going to end up a little bit short. But in their thinking is they're like, guys, we're big men. We're big women. We are tall. We are big. We got more length to cover. If we don't lift that bar a little bit higher, we are not getting underneath that weight. So that's kind of their whole thinking behind that punch and shrug. Another thing that was really interesting is,

again, in the States, we're kind of split because there are so many different coaching philosophies and styles. In the States here, some coaches are really big on, hey, to bang or to not to bang the bar, right? To bang or to rush the bar. That's another debate. And so the Russians are definitely, you know, of the banging camp. And a little story that's really interesting is Annie's Thor's daughter came through our box maybe a couple months ago. I believe she was, it was before she came out for 14.5. So she had come through again, you know, maybe a month or two with, before that with her boyfriend, Frederick. And I know, you know, through social media that she had hung out with Klokoff

during his time or during his tour in Europe. They did some fun wads together and had a good time. Yeah, yeah, it was great. And so I know how Annie moves. Like Annie works with Carl. I've worked with her in the past. She moves okay. Yami, yeah, works with her.

So we've all seen how she moves. And so her bar path prior to kind of, you know, coming together with Klokoff is she's very graceful. She's very fluid. She's very smooth. Like everything's just like, you know, butter. Right. And so I know how she moves. So I was really curious myself what her takeaway was from Klokoff seminar. So I was like, Hey, you hung out with Klokoff, you know, recently when he did his tour through Europe, she's like, Oh yeah. And I was just like, hey, what did you think of it? And she's like, oh, I really liked it.

And I asked her and Frederick, I'm like, is there something from that seminar you would take away and adopt into your own technique? Right. And she's like, oh, yeah, absolutely. And I'm like, what is it? Super curious. Right. And she's like, oh, he told me really to bang the bar, get after the bar. Oh, really?

Because that is not how she moved before. Right. right and she's like oh he told me really to bang the bar get after the bar oh really because that is not how she moved before right and i'm like oh really that's you know i'm like why is that why did you like it right and she's like oh because it gave me a 10 pound pr i'm like sure i'd like that good enough reason isn't it yeah you know gave me a 10 pound pr on my snatch i'm like when you're new to when you're new to weightlifting or crossfit getting a 10 pound pr it could be a million different things sure if you've been competing for a long time 10 pounds yeah when you're an athlete yeah it was something real it is real it is it is a real technical improvement that allowed her to be able to express that way absolutely so how do they how

are they telling people to to accomplish the banging of the bar. Because, I mean, all coaches are teaching keep the bar close, extend the hips, keep the bar actively pulled into you. So everyone's teaching to touch the bar at the hips at least. So are there any cues that they're giving that are different? Do they make that consistent? Well, yes. So here's the deal. Most CrossFitters aren't even touching the bar to their hips.

Yeah. Some are wearing underwear with pads on the front too. You know, what's funny is I go around in my seminars and we'll talk about, we'll touch very lightly upon like, hey, should you bang, should you brush? And, you know, for me, it's not really a debate on whether you bang or brush. It's, you know, I say, hey, really, let's just face it. It's what happens after the bar leaves your hips, right? If the bar keeps going upward versus just looping big around and, you know, around your body where you have to do something crazy to pull it back in, then bang or brush, whatever technique works for you. Let's, Hey, let's have

fun with it. Right. So, um, I just digress. What were you, what was the question? How do they teach to, okay. So in the States, you know, a lot of times we talk about when we sweep back we really want athletes to sweep really hard back into the heels right so that that's what accomplishes that shifting of the weight sweeping the bar back kind of into the the deep deep base of the foot and with the russians they're like no no no don't don't sweep it into your heels right just just here's your foot and just keep it right in the middle. Keep it right in the middle of your arch. Keep the weight right in the middle of your foot and just stand up.

And just stand up. Keep your chest up. Keep it stand up. I like it. It seems simpler. It's actually quite amazing. It is actually really simple. If you think about it, it took me a minute to kind of really be able to digest that.

And I'm like, I can't be that easy. But really, if you sit there and you line up and we can do it with you guys and try it out, if you line the bar right in the middle of your foot, you get yourself set up, you go to the bar, and you just stand up. As soon as you're at extension, that bar is at your hips. It's just that easy.

And then from there, you finish, pop your hips, and then ankles and shoulders send the energy continually separate. Is there a general, would you say, like, effort to not overanalyze and overthink on their part? Like, look, be strong, move well, and just train hard. Yes. And I'm paraphrasing Klokoff when I say this, um, the percentages could be a little bit off, but when he said it, it was like, he's like, Hey, weightlifting is 90% strength,

10% technique. Now, you know, coming from his level, it probably means something a little different because his technique is super angry. When you're lifting at eight years old, too, your idea of technique work is different. Yeah, have you seen his old school videos of him as a kid? I have seen some, yes. They are fantastic.

He's, you know, skinny little, what, 11 or 12. You forget, like, those guys have been training at a high level often, frequently. You know, his dad was a national level athlete as well, right? Yes, yes. It was second nature to him from the time he was a young child to do the lifts and do them a certain way. So, yeah, his strength ability really complements that really well.

At his level, too, it's just assumed that everyone knows how to do the technique. Maybe they argue over these little details and they have a little bit of a different style, a little bit of a different spin on how it's just assumed that everyone knows how to do the technique maybe they argue over these little details and they have a little bit of a different style a little bit of a different spin on how it's done but there's world champions in every different style so the details on the technique aren't as important you just need to be super super strong and pick a technique that works for you and stick with it well you know Klokov and Polovnikov will openly say too like when they were coming they had to come together and create the seminar together. And then I will also add then, you know, when they came from the States back to the mainland,

then Ilya also joined them as well. So Ilya and Kenna came through and started touring around the United States with them. And so when you get these three kind of mega rock stars of weightlifting together, they're going to come in with varying philosophies. They're all quite different. They train differently. They train differently. You know, they move a little differently. But the idea is that this difference evolved from them based on their, you know, kind of

physical anatomy and their individualities. It's not something that they were taught. So the idea is that they came through, they basically talked and, you know, debated, discussed all these different components to then, you know, how should we teach this progression inside our seminars? How should we teach this to the people? And, uh, they all came together and agreed like, Hey, look, we may look and move a little differently at this high, high level, but that's because we are at a very high level. When we're talking about creating that foundation, when we're talking about creating that base, it looks the same.

Everybody looks the same. And then at some point, because you need to veer to continue improving your numbers, that's when they started to veer off and that's when they started to look different. Very well put. I haven't actually heard anyone say it in that way, but I feel like that's exactly how it happens. And no one's been able to articulate it just like you just did. Right. Well, you know, here's the problem of looking at lifters. When we, when we look at movement only at that international level, um, they all look really good, but we're also only looking at these people performing like they're potentially lifetime best or near their, you know, high, high levels. I'm actually really interested in movement

that, you know, that happens kind of at all levels because I feel like largely that's as a coach, I get to, I learn more from watching people that are super beginner all the way to beginner intermediate to intermediate, intermediate advance, and then advance into the elite. Watching lifters at the elite level is fun and it's very attractive, but as a coach, I'm interested in everything underneath that scale.

I just think the most fun thing to watch is the elite guys not doing 1RMs though. It's watching them pull weights that you can pull and how fast they are with the weights that you can pull. And you go oh shit okay yeah i get it i mean being at the uh i think i'd been weightlifting for like a year and uh we went to the arnold classic it was like 2007 and the chinese showed up and they didn't lift at the meet they just lifted on the stage as a you know in the expo hall just to show what they could do

and they were like power you know 77 kilo guy was like power snatching 110 120 i was like oh i have a hard time cleaning jerking that like so much work and it was you just got really sad yeah yeah i was thinking back on it i get sad so, yeah, seeing guys just smoke weight, you know, high-level guys, that is. Everyone needs to go to, like, a national-level weightlifting meet or international if you can and watch just the speed. Because I had my coach always tell me, like, you got to go faster. I was like, I'm going as fast as I can. And then just seeing someone move at that speed was like, oh.

It was everything in the gym. Like that speed was like, oh, like that. There's things in the gym that happen that aren't wrapped up on the whiteboard and not said in words that make a huge amount of difference. So you've got to be in the presence of somebody you want to aspire to be like in order to get a lot of information that is lost in a training blog or coaching video. To be in the presence of a good lifter is what it takes to be a really good lifter. If you want to be a good power thrower, way other side. You go to where they are.

Yes, I completely agree. You know, when I go to a lot of the national meets, or even at the local level, you know, because we have, especially in the Bay Area, a lot of really good lifters. My favorite place to hang out is the training hall, is the platform, is the warm-up stage. I like seeing how people warm up.

I like seeing their routine. I like watching their focus. And granted, if it warmup stage. I like seeing how people warm up. I like seeing their routine. I like watching their focus. And granted, if it's going to be some like, hey, you know, new Pan Am record or whatever record that they're about to break, then sure, I'll kind of duck around the curtain to watch them lift up the platform. But really my fun is had in the training hall behind,

like just behind the scenes, just watching how people do their thing. Yeah. You're going to go to Salt Lake in July? Nationals? I'm not going to make it to nationals this year. I'm kind of hanging around town. I've got some family business that I have to take care of. So that's going to keep me grounded this year. Bummer. Yeah. But we have

our lifter, Kristen Newman. One of my athletes will be out there this, you know, this summer representing. Okay. You're going to go to the Olympics in 2016? Down in Brazil? I would. We're thinking about going. Yes. I'm actually thinking. Can we party? Have a little. Yeah. Yes. I am highly considering. Mojitos, good times?

That would be a good time. And we should podcast again. We'll podcast before then, but we'll do it again. Absolutely. We'll podcast in Brazil. If we're still podcasting in 2016. That's a long time from now. That is a long time.

Two years. Yes. We could be doing something totally different. Well, I'm trying to freak people out. It's like, man, maybe it won't be around forever. Don't take this art for granted. Scarcity. Scarcity.

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