Barbell Shrugged - The Best Strength Coach in the NFL w/ Coach Joe Kenn - The Barbell Life

Episode Date: October 6, 2019

Known simply as "House" to players, Joe Kenn's goal as the Panthers' strength and conditioning coach is to protect and produce: protect the athletes' body armor and produce athletic based results. He is entering his ninth season with Carolina. He employs a holistic and integrated philosophy in his comprehensive training plan that utilizes strength training, explosive development, high intensity interval training and performance-based nutrition. It is a structured approach that enhances players' physical attributes.   An accomplished strength and conditioning coach, Kenn's program was instrumental in Carolina's recent run of success with four playoffs appearances since 2013, tied for the second-most playoff berths in the NFC over that six-year period. In that span, the Panthers recorded 58 wins, tied for the most in any six-year period in franchise history, and fifth-most in the NFL. He was instrumental in Carolina’s 15-1 season in 2015 and trip to Super Bowl 50. For his efforts, Kenn was named the 2015 NFL Strength Coach of the Year in a vote by his peers. Joe Kenn on Instagram   Travis Mash on Instagram _____________________________________________ Please Support Our Sponsors   Savage Barbell Apparel - Save 25% on your first order using the code “Shrugged”   Organifi - Save 20% using code: “Shrugged” at organifi.com/shrugged ___________________________________ Join the One Ton Challenge    Registration is LIVE   12 Month Strength training program to increase your snatch, clean, jerk, squat, dead, bench.    Add them up to find your One Ton Total.    The goal is 2,000 pounds for men and 1,200 for women.    http://onetonchallenge.com/join   “What is the One Ton Challenge”   “How Strong is Strong Enough”   “How do I Start the One Ton Challenge”   --------------------------------------------------- Show notes: https://shruggedcollective.com/tbl-kenn --------------------------------------------------- ► Travel thru Europe with us on the  Shrugged Voyage, more info here: https://www.theshruggedvoyage.com/ ► What is the Shrugged Collective?  Click below for more info: https://youtu.be/iUELlwmn57o ► Subscribe to Shrugged Collective's Channel Here http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Shrugged Collective is a network of fitness, health and performance shows that help people achieve their physical and mental health goals.  Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first Barbell Shrugged podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast. Find Shrugged Collective and their flagship show Barbell Shrugged here: SUBSCRIBE ON ITUNES ► http://bit.ly/ShruggedCollectiveiTunes WEBSITE ► https://www.ShruggedCollective.com INSTAGRAM ► https://instagram.com/shruggedcollective FACEBOOK ► https://facebook.com/barbellshruggedpodcast TWITTER ► http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged

All my friends across the pond, we're coming to Sweden. We're going to be at Alico Wednesday, Thursday, Friday next week. Then on Saturday, we're going to be at CrossFit Halmstad running the One Ton Challenge. That's myself, Anders Varner, Doug Larson, Ryan Fisher, and Coach Travis Mash watching you snatch, clean, jerk, squat, deadlift, and bench. We're going to be at CrossFit Halmstad, which is so rad. So if you are in the Europe area, in that region, Scandinavia,

Denmark, especially you, Norway, you too. Get over to Sweden. Get to Halmstad. Come lift weights with us at CrossFit Halmstad. It's going to be so rad. We're coming all the way across the pond. I'm so excited to come hang out with everybody. Watch it get super yoked. I'm going to be on the way across the pond. I'm so excited to come hang out with everybody.

Why don't you get super yoked? I'm going to be on the microphone bringing the hype, and it's going to be super rad. Barbell Life, back this Sunday. It's happening. And before we get started with the show, our sponsors, Savage Barbell. Make sure you get over to savagebarbell.com forward slash shrugged. That is where you get hooked up with the 25% discount. That is why I'm going to be on the plane headed to Sweden for the One Ton Challenge in Savage Barbell.

They're the apparel sponsor. So if I'm going to the One Ton Challenge, you bet your ass I'm going to be wearing sweet Savage Barbell t-shirt on the plane. That way everybody knows I'm not taking the middle seat. You don't want to sit next to me in the middle seat. The shoulders are too broad. You're going to be uncomfortable. And we're on a red eye. So if you want to sleep bad, if you don't want to have any

room, and if you want to lose the armrest battle, go sit next to the guy with the Savage shirt on. You're going to lose. SavageBarbell.com forward slash shrug and our friends over at Organifi. The green, the red, the gold. I hope you saw it. I just unwrapped the greatest thing of all time. The pumpkin spice

gold from Organifi. Last year, they just launched this thing. Sent it all over to me. I was like, ah, pumpkin spice. I'm not a sorority girl. I don't need that. I don't really want it. I can't have another thing that I like. Let me tell you something. Delicious.'t need that. I don't really want it. I can't have like another thing that I like. Um, let me tell you something delicious. You need it. It's the gold, uh, and it's got some

pumpkin spice in it. So the Organifi gold, which is highlighted by the turmeric, the organic turmeric, um, yo, it is so legit. I cannot, I won't shut up about it. So get over to Organifi.com. That's where you get the pumpkin spice. If you're going to be in Sweden, you better be in Sweden. CrossFit Homestead or Swing by Aliko. Wednesday, Thursday, Friday of this week. We're all going to be there.

We have shows. We're filming YouTubes. We're actually filming a documentary. It's going to be so radical on how to make the best barbells in the world and speaking of barbells these people that you're about to listen to they love listening to barbells and lifting them talk to you you're listening to the

barbell life On this episode, we sit down with none other than Coach Joe Kinn, head strength and conditioning coach for the Carolina Panthers. He is the man many consider to be the absolute best strength coach in the entire world, so he really doesn't need much of an introduction. Now, Coach Ken got going on this one, talking about new technology, old school strength knowledge, and we got talking a lot about the conjugate system and Louie Simmons. Now, that's really on our minds a lot right now as we've just released our new e-book, Conjugate, West Side Inspired Weightlifting.

Now, there's a lot of controversy right now about Louie Simmons and how the West Side principles can be applied to weightlifting or should they be applied to weightlifting in the first place? What works? What doesn't work? What needs to change? Well, that's what Travis dives into in this new guide. Plus, of course, there's a 13-week Westside-inspired weightlifting program that Travis called his work of art. Now, you can get it at www.mashelite.com slash conjugate. Head on over and get it right now while it's at its special launch pricing.

We'll be raising the prices in a few days, so go get it now. Mashelite.com slash conjugate. C-O-N-J-U-G-A-T-E. And now, I'm Loren Penelis, joined by Chris Oxmason and Travis Mash as we talk with Coach Joe Ken. Man, I'm so pumped today to talk a little bit about Westside, about the conjugate method, because we have, once again, we have Chris Oxmason back on the show. What's up?

But today we have a very special guest. We have, I mean, yes, he's the head strength and conditioning coach for the Carolina Panthers, but to us, he's a whole lot more than that. I mean, he's arguably the best strength and conditioning coach in the entire world. I mean, been voted that twice by the NCAA. I hope it's just twice. But maybe it's more by now. I don't know.

But he's my go-to dude when it comes to strength and conditioning. He's a mentor of mine. He's literally wrote the book. He literally wrote several books on strength and conditioning. And anytime I have any questions in that field, he's the go-to guy. Everyone already knows this. It's Coach Joe Ken. Thanks for being have any questions in that field, he's the go-to guy. Everyone already knows this. It's Coach Joe Ken. Thanks for being on the show.

Appreciate it, guys. Great to be here. He's making me pay him, he said, because I use his name so much on the show. He said he wants a royalty check. Got to pay royalty checks. One cent every time my name's dropped. Oh, my.

I don't know that we can afford that. It might add up, actually. Yeah, seriously. Probably a little in the dollar. I'll take that in 50-cent rolls, too. There you go. Just roll it up to the bank. But, you know, today we're talking about the conjugate method

and how it applies to so many different areas of the strength world. But, I mean, since we have Coach Ginn, we're going to obviously start with, you know, how did you, Coach Ginn, find out when and how did you find out about Westside Barbell and how much of that do you still out about you know west side barbell and how much of that do you still use when you're you know training your nfl athletes or or any of your athletes that you work with i would say that 1994 ish was probably when i first started seeing louis articles pop up in powerlifting USA, maybe even 92. I'm not

somewhere in that era. When I first started at Boise State as a graduate assistant, when I was done playing football, I got into powerlifting because a guy who trained me back in New York, Frank Mansueto, when I told him I'm done, man, I'm not going to play. It's not going to work out. I'm not going to pass a physical. I'm a medical reject. It's over. I'm cool. I'm going to go coach. And he goes, well, you're not done competing. You got to get into powerlifting. And I'm like, well, I'm not very strong because it doesn't matter. It's just you competing. And, you know know I've been competing ever since really I mean yeah not as much as I used to but you know a sneaky deadlift meet in here that's about all I

can get done right now but so I would say when I got to Boise I've been competing in powerlifting then for about three years and was subscribing to powerlifting USA which back back then was the gold standard that was it there was nothing yeah there was no this was before the powerlifting USA, which back, back then was the gold standard. That was it. There was nothing yet. It wasn't over. This was before the powerlifting magazine was coming out on VHS. And that was all you had. You know, you had Dr. Leisner had a column. And then, um, what was the one guy that Doug Daniels, I think maybe was a name that was a columnist and obviously Mike Lambert was right. And then you'd get the programs mario d pasquale

judd d bisato or somebody like dr judge right remember him and all of a sudden here comes this louis simmons west side barbell yeah and you started reading his his stuff and it was really the first time that i think you heard somebody referencing books in powerlifting usa like i'm not a big into like review of literature stuff and i believe in it you i mean obviously you're getting your information somewhere but really most of the time when you talk training no one brought up the book like where did you get this stuff from right and he started you know like reading things on managing weightlifters and how it could apply to powerlifting and you know like i tell a lot of and i've heard a couple of podcasts from yourself and several others where some of the guys mistakes were being too dogmatic

and sticking to their well this is the way i do it and and i tell people, whether you read in my stuff, Travis Mast stuff, Ox Mason stuff, that you have to read between the lines. Like I always tell people, do you know why there's a space between every line when you read a book? It's because you're supposed to read in between those and understand that. Yeah, this is great, but there's you know, there's something they're not giving you and there's something missing. Like you can read everything you've ever read about Louie Simmons, but the truth is until you go there and watch them train, it fills in the gaps. It fills in between the lines. You know, you've heard, you know, again, a box school.

Hell, people can pick. We can nitpick everybody's program. I can sit here and nitpick my own program. But it's like a box squat should mimic your competition squat. If I pulled the box away, a box squat should look like your competition squat. Isn't that what we all heard and read? But yet when you watch, it almost looks like they're rocking. Now he's actually saying what you should do.

Yeah, so I mean, and again. Yeah, he's saying you should rock. So again, I'm not. It's in his book. That's for guys who I would say are technique masters. I'm a program master. And I'm a competent coach in all the disciplines. So I raid between the lines that

is not that there's no if ands or buts that has no correlation to the people i train right none yeah so i developed my box squatting style even for myself as a power lifter to those how i would teach an athlete right and i'm not going to have an athlete rock. They're already compressed. I know. We've already compressed their spine with axial loading with a ton of weight on their back. Now they're going to sit and rock. No. And then load the low back even more.

I can't get away with that. Even forget about the fact that I coach high-level athletes who get paid a lot of money. How do I justify that to a 15-year-old freshman seven or a 19 year old college freshman? I can't because at the end of the day, my kids don't compete in those movements. My kids compete in sport. So that's the biggest thing I think people need to understand is you have to read between the lines and understand, okay, how, where is the applicable to the, to my situation? Exactly. That's all I've been saying. I'm a big believer in box squats. Some aren't. But I know how I'm utilizing box squats.

And I think there's a tremendous amount of merit for the raw lifter, for the athlete. But it's like anything else. We always hear, oh, the Olympic lifts take too hard to teach right in my world yeah but let me just tell you teaching a kid to box squat the way i want is just as hard as teaching to clean right because they don't understand yielding strength right they don't understand what i call the cloud technique of the box and staying rigid right that box is made of wood it ain't soft and it doesn't have springs you cannot bounce off a box no your spine is not a spring yeah i mean when a guy's in a stance whether it's a three

point stance in football or in a track block there's a lot of rigid and straight contraction in the hip i don't maybe there's a more correct term but now i'm following it's all see what i'm saying so if i'm on a box why do i want to relax my hips no yeah and again i'm not saying i'm right or wrong i i always tell you i reserved the right to be wrong this is just my thought process when i'm watching evaluating and looking at the people that i coach and looking at myself like till this day and I've box squatted raw I've box squatted with double ply briefs I've box squatted with a loose power lifting suit still had never really understood what relaxed hip flexors meant so if I can't understand what relaxed hip flexor means on a box there's no way i can describe that feeling

to an athlete so then they're going to look at me like what is he talking about and i'm like i don't even know what i'm talking about i know how i feel doing box squats with bands and how i feel with box squats doing chains i know what i do do box squats doing straight weight i can relate what the athlete's going to feel from a kinesthetic process because i understand it right and that's and that's one thing that i think as a weight coach is you know people talk effectively about if you can't teach it you shouldn't apply it i also think what some of these methods is if you haven't experienced it yourself in a training setting not oh i've been under a bar with bands at the nsca national conference that is in training with bands that's you getting under

it and saying oh yeah i've trained long enough with bands and chains to know that at this point in my career i don't need bands because i'm not strong enough to use bands to their effectiveness. Like if I'm going to use bands now, I'm going to use 135 pounds and light bands to elicit the dynamic response that I needed based off of what goals and aspirations I may have. So there's so many things that people got to understand when you're looking at the dynamics of the West side principles and,

and let's face it, whether you think so or not, they've affected all of us, whether you're a West side believer or not, whether you think you're an Olympic lifting guy or not, West side has introduced us to a lot of things that we weren't exposed to. And that's a credit to louis simmons a guy who was a traditional power lifter who was continuously getting injured it's a story it's not nothing i mean and all of a sudden the guy starts reading things that we weren't reading yeah and the next thing you know he still is he creates a template that has produced the strongest guys in the world,

regardless of gear, regardless of gear. Because when they're in their special exercises, some of the things that they're doing in the special exercise realm is ridiculous. He introduced a lot of things that I think have more merit to athletics than people tend to understand because like you guys you know we can talk about definitions of terms and what things mean and you know to me we're all a hybrid that's a periodization of strength there's two types of periodization i believe there's the periodization of the annual plan and then there's the periodization of strength. And because of Louis, now everybody has a different term,

conjugate, concurrent, block, undulating, linear, and they bash. Everybody wants to bash. And what I've come to the conclusion is if you study your program design effectively and honestly, you are doing an intermixed approach of all these deals i i i knew this like i i remember when tom islinski wrote his thesis about the conjugate method of russian weightlifters based off of him being exposed to louis and that and that's the first time i heard of concurrent sequencing and that's a lot of what the tier system is. It's a concurrent sequencing of multiple traits because in athleticism,

all those traits come into play. But Louie introduced that, you know, to me, listening to guys who are smarter than me and trained Westside and trained at Westside, you know, what separated concurrent and conjugate to me was conjugate to me was more of the variation of special exercises right not necessarily the dynamic effort method the maximal effort method and the repetitive method and that's where i truly believe louis footprint is more important to me in athletics than the concurrent sequencing of the dynamic effort method and so forth is utilizing variations of exercises at different planes and different movement speeds

that have more to me transfer over to the overall development of a sport athlete rather than a lifting weightlifter, powerlifter, strongman, crossfitter, bodybuilder, etc. So that's some takeaways. And we can go in depth a little longer, but Louie made it okay to be, oh yeah, let's do that. Like the one thing I've noticed now, like listening more to Matt Wenning, I've got to meet matt a few years ago and he's a conjugate guy and and you know when we talked about developing athletes it was always you know multiple joint movements over isolating movements but yet what's our number what's like for me you know my mission is to prepare protect and produce my and produce and you know i i mission is to prepare, protect, and produce. And, you know, I don't use injury prevention or reduction of injuries anymore because my guys get hurt.

Yes, let's face it. We're all getting hurt. It doesn't matter what sport. Dudes are getting hurt. I mean, I have to do the best I can to protect my guys. Prepare, protect, and produce. That's awesome. So from a protection standpoint,

what do I learn from Matt Wenning is if a guy has weak hamstrings, a lot of the exercises I'm going to use may be single joint. Yeah, I may have to do some knee flexion work. Yeah, that's right. I said it. You may have to do it.

And at first, you know, I was 100%. We're not doing isolative work. We're doing multiple joint work, but in the end you find that if you're really looking to protect like, like your shoulder region, we want to say, Oh, let's, but let's face it. Cuff work is isolation work. I mean, it is, it's just the way it is. And you're, you know, neck work is a single, know neck flexions neck flexion that's it so at the end of the day from a preparedness standpoint that's what louis program brought up is building he talks more about spending more time of building your weaknesses than your main lifts right and and that's something that i have a hard time with now

at this point in my career because i spend a lot of time with the main list because I'm continuing to chase the technique that I want. And I don't think you can do that without doing the lift. So I play that game of variability, but always making sure within this cycle of training, I have to do the lift that I'm going to compete. Some specificity. In the book, that's exactly what I say. He's talking about 20% should be done on the competition list and 80%

on special exercises. I would go more 60% should be done on your competition list and 40%. I would agree with that. Closer to 50-50. Again, I think it depends on your your age as far as training age and the younger yeah the younger the athlete i think you can improve weaknesses through the major lift totally because they don't know anything right

but the older you go now it gets really specific like i know when i ventured into strong man and having the back issues I've had is my, for the lack of a better term, my lower back strength week. And I noticed that when I was helping my buddies train strong man, I can't pick up a stone. Because when you look at the dynamic of how that's, you're in that rounded back, you know know just the most unorthodox position you could be in that's pure old school farm boy low back strength nothing safe about it like i had a hard time lifting a 250 stone and my other buddies were ripping 400 pound stones and they were 50 pounds lighter than me and they were also better deadlifts they can convey uh one of one of the guys who's still a competitive deadlifter brian dermany he's a 124 kilogram lifter who just deadlifted 788 at the arnold but that dude's got a strong low back strong and he'll and he'll even

admit when he gets heavier in his squat he becomes a low back squatter because his strength is going to take over. Mine too. Yeah. So, I mean, it is what it is. And the other guy was Adam fight who, you know, he snatched grip deadlift off a hundred pound plates at one of, uh, Dave Tate's invite only coaches deal. Learn to, uh, Live to learn. Yeah. Live to learn, live, learn, pass on. And so, again, that's my weakness. So now, you know, I use certain exercises to help work that within a certain respect. But in the end, I only have a certain amount of time, too.

So I have to be very aware of time. Time is valuable. The older you get, the more your family changes, the more your job changes, the more you realize you've invested. Yeah, the more you realize you were selfish for a lot of your career and now you're trying to pay back people. Yeah, it's hard. What? Selfish?

What are you talking about? I mean, like I've trained 80, I think today is 82 days straight. I'm going to train. Like people around me know I'm training. Right. And I'm beat up right now, so next week I'm going to reevaluate before we head to training camp. But I'm going to train every day.

Like to me, training is as simple as going around and doing original strength and going for a walk. Anything outside my daily activity rate is training. It's awesome. I mean, so I'm going to do something every day to prepare my body for the next day. I tell people it's like brushing your teeth, man. It's just what I do. Yeah, it's just like meditating and things like that. Like I have a routine and my wife knows I'm,

I hate breaking my routine and that's being selfish. But selfish has gotten me a lot of good things too. So you just got a sweet job, man. You know what I mean? It's just the way it is. I mean, so, you know, people, oh man, this guy's selfish. Yeah, you're right. I'm selfish and at times I'm arrogant

and at times I have an ego. But at the end of the day, it's just the way it is. And you are very giving, too. I mean, but, like, I mean, I think that's more, I wouldn't call you being selfish. I would call it being balanced. Like, you're not going to, like, you know, go and just spend time with family and friends

and let yourself get fat and out of shape and then die. You know, you're just being very balanced is what you're very in my in my experience with you this is not me kissing the number one student coaches but Chris would agree you're very giving too like you've been giving to both of us I mean so I don't know I think you're very balanced too I think the giving part really you don't you don't even know you're giving really I mean just the way it is I mean I I think I owe a lot to the people who got me here and I also the a lot to the people who want to get their goals accomplished and if I can help by hey man I got a bunch of weights you want them hey I got an extra bar you want them hey you got I got this hookup I got this hook up i got

this hook up i think they'd be good for you guys to get connected i mean thank god that's just you know that's that's just um shout out in tech yeah i mean that's just smart that's just smart by trying to connect good people with good people that have same visions because now if they join forces, good things happen to both people. Everybody wins. Yeah. In your case, you get a quality product. In the company's case, they get to say that they're helping promote the youth weightlifters

of the United States of America and vice versa. I mean, so it's one of those things that you look at from the standpoint of creating relationships that are going to last longer than any jobs going to last. And, you know, and then how to, do you effectively give, because giving it's, it's funny. I'm not giving because I'm asking for something in return because generally the more you give, the more you receive. Right. You don't you don't know when that's going to happen.

Right. And I don't I don't do it out of all. I think I got it. You know, I don't do it like subconsciously thinking, oh, I have to give Travis this or I have to give Ox that. And I know how hard you guys work. I've watched you guys for a long time. I mean, somebody was asking me the other week about some things. I said, man, I met Ox and Travis in like 1999 when I would come back from the summers when I was working at Utah when they first started lifting at Keith Payne's gym in Yadkinville. And those guys would be in there and we'd be talking chains and bands. That was my prime and uh over there and then when i came out and visited with friggin mark uyama we met you at the 365 in moxville totally and then you know i mean just guys reaching out you know seven degrees

of separation you just kind of and again it was by chance that you guys were in that gym the same day that i was in town yeah and i just happened and i don't know how back then i think internet forums had just started and me and keith kind of hooked up through an internet forum and he goes hey i got a gym in yadkinville if you're ever in winston come on down and the next thing you know there you guys were in and that's when you guys were real you guys were on top of the world back then. Yeah, we're crazy. Talk about being selfish. Yeah. Whoa.

Yeah, but it was a lot of fun back then. But, you know, this is a good point. I hope everyone can gather this. In this industry, man, this industry comes down to more of what he's talking about than it is X's and O's. Everyone wants to be like, I'm the smartest dude on earth. I'm not making a dime. Nobody knows me, but they should because I'm the smartest dude on earth. But yet you're a jerk, you know, so no one ever listened to you.

Yeah, that's every industry. But like it all comes down to relationships. He's like when you meet someone like Coach Ken, if you can just look at Coach Ken and say, let's not just think about what's in it for me. But what can I do for Coach Ken? Let's be true to him. Let's be his buddy and friend. then this industry you'll do well in but if you're always just trying to suck people like a leech speaking of a leech i got a leech on my foot this weekend but anyway that's another story crazy looking yeah but um but you know instead of being a leech you know

just if you just give him back and like i promise you what he said if you will leech, you know, just give him back. And, like, I promise you what he said. If you will look at just, you know, what can I do for other people, and leave it at that. Don't think about what you're going to get in return or what they owe you. Just what can I do for other people? If you just do that one thing, this industry, unless you're a complete idiot, you'll do pretty well in it. It's a tight-knit group. I mean, you know, it is what it is.

It's lifting weights. Let's just be real. I mean, we do conditioning work. what it is. It's lifting weights. Let's just be real. I mean, we do conditioning work, but at the end of the day, why did we all get in this deal? Because we were lifting weights. We liked to lift weights. It wasn't like, hey, let's go run 10 200s and do a quarter mile of walking lunges. We all did it.

Nobody ever. Yeah, we all did it because, hey, man, you're telling me you're going to pay me to just hang out and lift weights and watch guys lift weights? I mean, that's why we did it yes so it's a it's an interesting dynamic and it's funny how like again if i if i didn't power lift i wouldn't know who louis it's you know everybody you know i wouldn't know i wouldn't have read louis simmons i'd probably be way behind fortunately for me i was one of the first college programs to utilize it. And that's how, you know, again, seven degrees of separation.

Now all of a sudden you meet a Dave Tate. You meet Buddy Morris calls you when you're at Boise State. Joey Batson calls you when he's at Furman. Because now people are starting to hear the voice of, who are the Westside guys, right? Who's the west side guys right yeah who's the west side guys and and some guys went all in on west side where i had developed the tier system in 1992 my number one thing was this is you know like you know again this is my baby yeah i'm running with this but this west

side stuff i can figure out how this stuff's going to work like that's my i was based off of like anything else we had explosive movements lower body and upper body strength movements when i started the tier system right what did louis simmons bring to me well again i think todd hammer was talking about it any movement can be trained explosively but and he made a good point except olympic lifts always have to be trained explosively i thought that was a really good point right but so that changed explosive category to total body right the i i was i built the three day a week template on the old heavy moderate light principle so what became what what we determined was light now became the dynamic effort method because now it gave light and intent right

like hey if we're going to go light let's make it have value so now we're going to train fast 0.8 meters per second or faster you know what what I'm saying? So those were, that's how that came about. Right. Then, you know, several years later, when I read Milo's deal about concurrent sequencing, you know, now I learned, hey, I can rotate these methods of strength within my tiers to give a priority, which is also like the block method. Because now I'm trying to raise a certain trait, but maintain these other two. Like, you know, Verkoshansky talks about in, no, excuse me,

Zatskoyorsky talks about in the science of practice of training, where you learn about these three methods, where you can raise one or two qualities and retain the other. So that's how it worked. It was like, okay, tier one, we're going to raise tier two, raise maintainish tier three, you're going to retain. And what you find is the common denominator between the dynamic effort method and the repetitive effort method is maximal, maximal effort effort method so to me in the rotation the maximal effort method or what i call with college or pro athletes and even high submaximal effort right right method is never going to be a tier three exercise right it can't be right and it's always going to separate the dynamic and the repetitive like you're never going to have a

rotation of dynamic repetitive max effort or repetitive dynamic max effort it's always good but you could have maximal effort repetitive dynamic effort got you totally you see what i'm saying or repetitive this is awesome so you see what i'm saying in the tiers so where people talk about undulating periodization and weekly undulating right the tier system is actually session undulated periodization right because not only are we doing things throughout the week that undulate we're doing things within this session that undulates because it's all based off of heavy moderate right right so it's not like okay day one is speed day two is max effort day three is repetitive effort.

Each tier represents a movement category. So each one of those movement categories changes every day. So if total body is max effort, say just for argument's sake, we're just throwing stuff out. So we're going to go power clean is max effort method on monday dynamic effort squat so we're going to go max effort clean dynamic effort squat repetitive bench right so then the next day we're going to go max effort squat dynamic effort bench repetitive effort clean which would be a clean pull for sixes. Then the next day we're going to go max effort bench, dynamic effort clean,

repetitive effort squat. So there's your session undulating periodization. Now what does Louie do? He brings in conjugate. So you're not doing those exercises every day of the week. So now you're doing a variety so it might be hey it could be a front squat it could be a like on the repetitive effort day it's probably going to be a single leg movement right great you know on your volume day it might be overhead press or some type of shoulder movement or a lot of rows like we pair for us we always pair a push pull yeah so if we do a horizontal press we're doing a horizontal pull we do a vertical press we're doing a vertical pull and then we're always

and we're doubling up the reps or adding reps to the pulls so those are the things again where west side influenced the tier system and that's why like you have the west side template and just like i tell people the west Side template is what it is. You have your max effort, your dynamic effort day. You have your exercise choices and your pools. The tier system is a template. Don't get it twisted. The tier system isn't about the cycling.

It's about the structured rotation of the movement categories. I don't care how you cycle it. What I'm showing you is how the dynamics of your implementation of training athletes fits by using the principles that Westside exposed me to and my interpretation of Westside Barbell and training a athlete who does a team sport that their number one goal is not how much he lifts or how much she lifts it's how well are they prepared are they protected and can they produce results in their sport of choice right that's that's where and and again that's my beliefs i know a lot of people that have won a lot of games doing all machines for one set to

failure. Gone to 30 bowl games in a row, won three Super Bowls. I know a lot of teams that stick a lot to the Westside traditional template. But I also know just like when I hear people talk about, I do the tier system and they send me their program it looks nothing like the tier system I've also heard a lot of people say I train Westside and I look at their program and I go that's not Westside you know like like when people would call me in early in the late 90s early 2000s Oh coach man I go why do you want to come work for us well you're Westside I go yo brother we train three days a week and use Olympic lifts that's not Westside that's the That's not Westside. No. That's the tier system. It's not Westside.

No. Now, extra workouts, Westside. We called them blitzes for football. Right. We had different names for different sports. This is my point, is that you're just influenced. I'm not saying that everyone, or that you should look at what Louis Simmons is saying and now totally switch what you're doing.

I'm just saying there's probably a good chance you could learn something from him. There's no question. I mean, like I read his book, and obviously I'm not a weightlifting coach, and that's what I tell people. I power lift, but I'm not a professional power lifter. I know how to coach the Olympic lifts,

but I'm not a weightlifting coach. And that's why like when i talk to people about exercise technique and coaching is i need competent lifters who are competitive football players i don't need competitive lifters who are competent football players and i definitely don't want corrosive lifting on either right and and the problem is when us as coaches in the sport realm of the of college university or private sectors that are coaching athletes outside the strength disciplines is we get caught in a number game that we don't have to get caught into because Nobody cares. Nobody does. Nobody cares. I can promise you no one cares how many 400-pound benchers,

500-pound squatters, or 40-inch vertical jump guys I have if we're 6'10". Right. Nobody's going to care if you snatch and clean and jerk. Nobody's going to care if you squat, bench, and deadlift. All they're caring about is are you producing athletes they're you know not getting hurt as often and again and i'm not saying that i don't want them to get bigger faster stronger for the lack of uh you know for the easy for the easy saying because if i do that

there's a good chance that they're going to be protected and they're going to produce desired results. But remember, if I teach a guy and he has a corrosive 400-pound clean, the old straight leg deadlift, power reverse curl, that has no transferable trait to sport, in any sport. It's going to hurt. In any sport. So what does it matter if I have six guys who allegedly clean 400, but their vertical jumps are 24 and they run five, six forties. There's no transfer.

No. And you're fired. Yeah. Or the guy's like, oh, I got six guys who, and we're two and 10. Right. Yeah. Nobody cares. I don't, I don't.

And again, we've all been there. I mean, I can say what I can say everything I say, because I've all seen it. I've seen it in weight rooms and I've coached it. I've seen it in weight rooms, and I've coached it. And I've had to come back, and you have to bring yourself in to why are we doing this. It makes no sense. Again, I just happen to be listening to it because you just posted it today. Like Todd Hammer, another great point for college strength coaches. You don't have to max cleans.

Cleans to me are purely a dynamic effort type of movement agreed and you may you could take a training max so you could like i i know everybody talks about velocity based training rpes i'm gonna be a percentage guy till i die right i just think you need to set some type of parameter and then work from there right i think there's a lot of cool stuff going on. But in the end, I need to know the number. I'm not guessing, hey, we want to do this at three point meters per second. Where do we start? I don't know. Exactly.

You got to have an idea. And Louie gave you some of those parameters with utilizing a Prillipin's chart and certain goals. But like for me,'m at 50 i'm 50 years old if i want to get 0.8 on certain exercises i'm using you know child weight right i am like you know you know i train certain things the way i train like when i snatch i don't have to go over 60 kilograms right because i know what i'm trying to do i know what my goals are because that's dynamic effort and i do those lifts for capacity work like i do short rest intervals for a lot of because that's dynamic effort and i do those lifts for capacity work like i do

short rest intervals for a lot of singles that's like my conditioning like today i was over at wake coach oregon allowed me to go down there and sneak a weight workout and i did 50 kilogram snatches every 40 seconds for 16 minutes yeah i think that was like 25 singles yeah and i'm using a open barbell i'm not promoting companies but'm using an open barbell. I'm not promoting companies, but I use an open barbell unit, which is similar to a tendo. Personally, I think it records a little bit slower than the tendo, but I'm using peak velocity. And my goal was to try to keep them all over 2.7 on a high pocket clean. Right. If I was pulling from a block, a 16-inch block, I think sometimes I can hit 3.0.

But my legs were beat up from my last squat session. I'm still sore. And I'm like, okay, I'm just going to go high pocket and shoot for this. And I had, I think the highest I hit was 295. I hit a couple of 2.6s, but I know enough to know that it was a bad pull. Like, yeah, that wasn't a good one.

So I correct it, but most of them were between 2.7 and 2.78. So that's where I – I know where I can max. Like, you know where I max. You know my capabilities as an Olympic weightlifter. I'm not an explosive athlete. Never have been. I made it on guts when I played and that I was strong. Like I'm slow strong. And it relates to the fact that I was a good for as big as I was in like the longer conditioning.

Right. Like I could run seven laps in a 12-minute run around a track at 280 pounds. I could run 30 minutes. I ran a 10K at 300 pounds after i played in less than an hour so there's just so you that tells you that i'm never going to be super duper explosive like when i do squats now like dynamic effort squats i'm hoping to get 0.7. Right. Well, I mean, 0.7 is good. But I mean, I usually, I live in the 0.6 world. Right.

But I know that that's me. Right. And the loading's right. It's just that I have to continue to work. Like I got better from week one to week two. That's why I'll flat load stuff. Right. And know that my other lifts will get stronger.

I can keep my dynamic effort day at the same load every week and just monitor hey does this tendo say i'm getting better right or does this open barbell say i'm getting better because the truth is that's the intent of that day it's not how much is on the bar it's how fast can i move it and if i'm moving it slow i got to get faster so why am i going to change the way i think that's the best part of the whole tendo units. Or, you know, which one do you say you use? The open, was it? Open barbell. Yeah, so it's just, you know, if you have your percentages, it's just to see, you know, if you're really slow,

maybe that day you need to reconsider. Yeah, like I use, the way I train now, I mean, I train on a long block because I like my variation, but I can't train back-to-back days. I have to take a day off of recovery or movement, and that's allowed me to be able to go consecutive days. I'm not squatting every day anymore. I'm taking a beating right now, but I've been, again, 82 days. I've had some heavy, heavy lifts.

And so next week I'll really just do a lot of movement stuff and try to clean some deficiencies up as far as my soft tissue work. And then when we start training camp, I'll pick up a new cycle and go from there. But, you know, what I've learned is like from my dynamic effort day is I'm training 40% of my safety bar squat max. But I'm doing it with the front squat safety bar position. So it's a little bit tougher so the 40 percent's probably a little bit more probably like 60 yeah so and i and and i use i've used 70 pounds of chain because my chains are 35 pounds each so that's when i go back to

work there'll be 80 pounds of chain so you're using 50 bar weight plus the chance right oh so you're right and then i'm exactly what he's talking yeah so i'm and i'm pausing and i'm pause on the box i use a box and what i've found is i've got better from week one to week two but it's not where i want so there's no reason for me to change the load like i don't want to go lighter oh i like what you're saying you see what i'm saying so i've just flat loaded i'm using a percentage of a max yeah i'm using eight sets of two i train it on the minute yeah so now my goal is i'm not going up to 43 percent until i can do eight sets 16 reps and they're all 0.7 i like that so in the end my sub max effort day is trained off of prilipin cycles and in a linear type of fashion right so i'm gutting my strength work in but

my speed work doesn't have to change just like with my snatch my go-to my go-to number for me on block snatches is 50 kilograms right like that's when i'm going to test my dynamic effort like i know what numbers i want to hit based off of a velocity score yeah when i want to test speed i'm going to 50 kilograms and obviously if i've gotten stronger in my pulls and if i do some strength work and get stronger that 50 percentage is going to be less it's not like right now 50 might be 75 percent of my max if i keep working it's going to start going to 72 so you got to hope to think it gets faster and that those are things that those are components you can bring in to athlete to athletics start working on part two because now it's a whole different variation you know that you know you've

got like i'm a big I like flat loading stuff. And that's where I think flat loading gets a bad rap. But with these new parameters and these new implementations to the strength game, like a velocity-based training device. And it doesn't matter what you use as long as you use the same one and you're consistent. And then if you start, but if you start, you know, if the velocity score doesn't increase, then you might want to consider dropping it down. You got to figure, you got to play the game.

Like what I learned early in my career was we were adjusting people's training maxes every week. Right. And what happens is you can't because there's too many stresses outside the training hall that you can't affect. Like a guy could be killing it for three weeks in a row. And like say you started him week one at 400. He kills it. You bump his max to 412 the next week. He kills it.

You bump his max to 420 the next week. He kills it. He flunks two tests and has a fight with his girlfriend. He gets zeroed out, and now you're screwed. So what I've learned is play the cycle out yeah and then at the end of that's the one thing that i really got from olympic weightlifting was i think it was in 2001 ish we brought mike conroy out when the usa weightlifting just started the sports performance coach yeah courses and that's when they brought in what i use predominantly when i can they went what used

to be a traditional four-week cycle was three up one down right they called it a performance cycle where it was two up taper and then end the cycle that's what we just on the heavier day and what i call that day was yeah and that was off the script like okay, okay, once a month, we're going for it. And what I created based off that was to, from my standpoint, when we wrote programs, and this is when we really hit it off at Louisville, was so we have week one was your base, your introductory week. Then week two was your load. But what we did is for the last set of the training session,

so say we were doing eight triples at 80%. Right. Is that right? Yeah, that'd be high volume prilipid. Yeah. 24 reps at 80. But the last set was off the script repetition max. So what we would do is like, okay, 80%,

usually based off of relative intensity and estimated max that could be a 10 or 8 to 10 rm so we would say okay the last set set eight was max to eight in the squat max to 10 in the bench we never did it with the olympic lifts right so that was like a repetition test week two then we deloaded week three and then week four was off the script so what we would do is so say week four was uh 10 uh eight sets of three at 85 percent i always did it in fatigue because my athletes play in fatigue state so we would go four triples at 85 percent if the guys were killing it the next set would be 88 for triple and we would see how heavy the triple they could get yeah so they can go 88 91 94 97 and then we would adjust their load now

if a guy hit his four set and it was shaky he stayed and he finished out the this new like you know the tindo units or your you know the one you're talking about would be a great way to to like if you can't if you don't have that good coach's eye where you can just tell if the guy sucks or not that day or is he doing yeah and again you could say like okay like if it falls under this you're not going back on but we did you know but you made a point where you were saying and i'm the same way you know how i warm up yeah i warm up more than i lift right and i hate to call well i call it pre-activity prep my readiness my resets that's just the way it is whatever whatever you want yeah and it's part and it's training right like

my my my prep can be an extra workout your prep would probably kill me. Yeah. So, and I do tons of warm-up sets. Yeah. But yet, my best set is always going to be on a box who had set three. Because it takes me, whatever it is, to this day, two sets with that load to write, hold the box, get off that box with some intent. Don't kind of get off and then say, oh, I got to go faster. Get off the box so and what we found out because again a lot of it is uh your neurological patterning when we were in college at asu and louisville our our strength test was not a one rep max at the end of the summer it was a metabolic test where we took 85 85 to 88 percent of the previous

one rep max and we would do 15 singles on a 35 second rest like a game so it was a 15 play drive and what we found out was and we we trained this way this is like so this is not like oh we just like when people go ah house is bullcrap and he's saying dudes are setting long jump maxes at tier five in his strength workouts. Well, we did because we trained that way. Yeah. We trained to be have a power capacity for playing 75 plays in a game. Right. That's how we train.

So what we would do is we'd have all these dudes in the rack, and you can talk to Matt Ray, one of the strength researchers who brought underlading periodization to the forefront from the research side because he came and watched us train because he didn't believe it. He's like, you can't do that. You can't do this. And I said, just come and watch. And it wasn't one lifter. It was 24 platforms.

And, like, after about sets five or or six we would start chipping dudes up we'd have guys setting one rep PRs at reps 14 15 and we'd even let guys go 16 17 18 reps where we'd go okay guy squats 500 we're training them at 85 percent right what is that well 90 percent is 450 so what's 85 percent four and a quarter right four and a quarter so he takes four and a quarter first five reps so now you got you know you got all your interns add 10 445 you know you know add 10 aside add add another 10 465 add 5 475 add 5 485 8 5 495 add 5 505 so not a guy just pr by five pounds in a metabolic interval weightlifting session that's brilliant i mean that's what we would do and then so now let's

talk about the number one transferable trait in the weight room confidence right so do you think that my guy forget about the running let's just talk about being meatheads right now right do you think that my guy, forget about the running. Let's just talk about being meatheads right now. Do you think that that dude in the fourth quarter in a 10-play drive is worried about he's not ready? No, he's going to kill you. He's like, no fool. Yeah, I'm good. I'm PRing right now.

Yeah, I'm going. And that's how we train, and that's how we promoted it, and that's how we sold it. I mean, we had a kid who squatted 575 for us at the university of louisville who at rep 20 missed 600 so now if he missed 600 at rep 20 you know he was doing a lot of weight before he got there geez that's a lot of volume too that's awesome yeah and remember that's 35 that's not a 35-second rest. That's every 35 seconds there's a beep, and they unrack the weight and take the rep. Dang.

When does that clock reset? Yeah. It doesn't. No, it just rolled. It's every 35 seconds taking a rep. Oh, my goodness. So if you're messing around, we'll give you five seconds, four, three, two, one. And I don't, if you're messing around. Like, we'll give you five seconds. Yeah. Four, three, two, one. And I don't care if you take it out.

Within that five seconds, you better come out and get that ripping within 10. Yeah. Because that's just the way it is. You better go again. But again, it's like this. 35 seconds comes around real quick. So let's talk about this. Let's talk about this other stuff.

Like, it just shows you. I was thinking about this the other day, too. It's kind of funny how everything kind of has its starting place, but depending on what era you're in or how you follow training. So you have, and I use it too, because it's a good abbreviation on stuff, but I change it for what I am. Like every minute on the minute,

Louie Simmons started that. Louie Simmons started every minute on the minute. Box squats, dynamic effort, box box squats dynamic effort box squats dynamic effort bench i'm not just first first guy first guy first guy who ever said something you do stuff on the minute right that's how you're going to get in shape right you're going to move bars fast and you're going to get he's the first guy lifter who talked about getting in shape yeah yeah you gotta be in shape to be a lifter yeah so there the other one as many reps as possible well wasn't that arthur jones in one set to failure high intensity training yeah

again but amrap amrap or you know and again i'm not i'm just showing how people have to study history and it's no this is yeah like okay charles poliquin establishing a tempo Remember we're going to do bench presses 1x2 Arthur Jones, Nautilus Yeah Every rep 2 count positive, 4 count negative 1 count pause So

And even like the tier system The tier system really is an advanced On steroid For the lack of a better term Of Bill Starr's old Strongest House to Survive book that I read after I wrote the tier system and said, okay, this dude, well, not even that. Adds some validity to what you wrote. It just justifies more, you know, he had heavy, moderate light. I rotated heavy, moderate light in different sessions because I just felt like you couldn't train all three big lifts heavy in one session. No, I agree.

Yeah. It's hard. You guys don't even do it unless it's competition or pre-comp in Max Out Friday. You're looking for a total. But you're not doing it every day. No way. You know, so those are things that people got to understand. We've all built on things.

It's like everybody, you know, like the tier system. Hey, I didn't think it was going to be this. I didn't write it. I read it because I wanted to write a program to make my athletes better. And then it was like, Hey, you got to get this out there. This is cool. And Hey, you need to write a book. This is cool. I didn't know it was going to take off the way it did. And that's when who's going to be the next innovator.

Like if there was no innovation everybody would be doing the the husker power way because boyd epley was the first strength coach to start in college university level but there is no perfect way to skin a cat when you're training athletics because these dudes and these women are freaks doesn't matter what level you coach their athleticism can supersede anything you do in the weight room. We've seen it. We've seen bastardized lifting that looks atrocious, and then you watch the same person go on the field.

And that's why I challenge myself. I challenge your athletes. I challenge your coaches. How many times do you go out and watch practice, and you just watch these coaches just drilling technique fundamentals fundamentals fundamental you can't step this way you can't put your hand this way but yet we'll let anything go on max day in a way that's not protection don't tell me you're looking to reduce risk of injury and prevent injuries when you allow anything goes on test day right

we've all done it i think it's getting cleaned up but there is certain principles now again you you have to know when you go and watch some of these schools or you go and watch people you like say you don't know what these coaches are asking these people to do there's certain programs that chase numbers yeah and if you want to keep your job you're chasing numbers right i i understand that you you hope that you can find that unique relationship and i've been fortunate especially in my last several stops that one i grew with a head football coach so as my philosophy and methods evolved he was evolving too and it became a point to where i didn't even have to turn in numbers anymore right because he knew what i was doing i knew what he was doing we were getting results

yeah but i know people who turn in numbers pictures of guys but i'm tell you what i know a lot of bad body players who are friggin awesome i mean you guys have that running back i mean i don't know what's his name um he's really good, but he looks kind of chubby. Oh, yeah, Mike Tobin, our fullback. He's no longer with us. But, yeah, watch that guy. You see him in the street. Yeah.

You know? Chubby. Kind of like a dad bod. Yeah. He'll kill you. But on the field, he's a dancing bear. He's Jackie Gleason. Yeah.

Quick feet, explosive. Yeah. You can't catch him. Figure that out. So it is what it is. I mean, you've got bad body players that are just skilled seriously so it's like a round ball and kill you and in good shape it's just the way it is and then it's you know a lot of its genetics it all it is who you are you know you start you say man look at this guy man why can't we do this this and this

when you meet his mom or his dad and you meet his brothers and sisters and like hey man you got no shot seriously you can't you know this there's a couple things you ain't going to out-train, genetics and diet. Seriously. I mean, that's why a lot of people say, well, the system worked, the system worked. I mean, that's why it's so hard to quantify what's a good system and what's not.

If you've got a lot of great athletes, you can just have them go out and play checkers and they'll win because they're unbelievable. Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, it's recruiting. Let's face it. Checkers? No. You know, it's, there's, and I'm not trying to degrade strength programs.

I'm a strength coach. Yeah. I try to promote it. I mean, the problem now is there's too many people who want to be strength coaches and the job market is flooded. Yeah. And it's amazing. When I first started, if you didn't play play a sport how did you become a strength coach now there's more people that you meet that didn't play a

college sport maybe didn't play high school sport that are getting into the field and it's like that's a little scary because you know they don't know how to relate no i understand it but that's the way it is now yeah yeah you know you know that's just the way it is and that's like people oh man i want to be this i want to be, there's only a certain amount of jobs in the whole world. There's 32 professional football strength coaches. That's a very unique spot. There's what? How many NBA teams?

There's only 100 and what? I think there's, I know it's not, I don't think it's at 130 yet, but there's only 130 Division I college strength and conditioning football jobs. Yeah. There's, what, 300 Division I basketball jobs? How many people are in there? And even then, now, it's just starting to get where basketball-only strength coaches, which, I mean, that's another day, another, the whole single-sport strength coach realm that's going on in college athletics. That's another podcast for another day but you know there's there's only there's so many there's

there's very limited positions i know people you know you know the finally financially it's starting to blossom i think when i left college when i left college in 2009, I think there was no more than 10 people making over $200,000 a year as a Division I college football strength coach. Now there's 42. To me, if you're a Power 5 college strength and conditioning coach and you're the football guy 200s to go in right right which i remember in the late 1990s and 2000s when we found out one of the coaches made six figures for the first time that it was like really strength coaches are actually going to be able to make six figures yeah because you know like everybody goes well you know i don't do it for the money i do it for the love you're doing it for the money don't ever say it's not for money nobody wants to be broke yeah don't don't don't ever ever ever

tell me it's not for money now i will tell you this if you chase the money it's going to be harder to get you got to commit to your job yeah and it's just like anything else look i learned the hard way if you don't commit to your job you're not getting the next one yeah because you haven't done a good job at the job you have now so you have to grow into that mindset of hey i'm an intern at travis's mash elite place is always a wreck and all he wants me to do is mop the floor well guess what if you ain't the best floor mopper he probably ain't gonna help you get your next job right the one that you think you want right it's just like i would do some and again i don't i'm not saying it was right or wrong it's just like I would do some and again I'm not saying it was right

or wrong it's just the way I did it but I would do stupid stuff with my interns and sometimes even like first year assistants because I just wanted to see if you can't clean the weight room the way it needs to be cleaned how do I expect you to write

a program for these athletes yeah because you don't care if you don't care about the weight room you don't care about them you know it's like you go you send them out to get lunch and they mess up your order well that's like writing a bad program exactly it's a well i didn't think it mattered well it matters it mattered because now you just got somebody here yeah i mean you go you know like You know, like, you know, it's just the way it is. I mean, it's an interesting dynamic the way things are changing. And I think, you know, I think the what's available now to the aspiring strength coach,

to me, is kind of scary because to me it's too much. Like I think it's too much and there's too much talking and not enough doing. Too much regurgitation and not enough what is your opinion. Like I used to, if I ask you a question and you go, well, Louis says this or Verka Chansky says this. What do you say though? Yeah, like I don't care.

I know what they say. What do you say? I didn't ask you to tell me what Louis says care i know what they say what do you say what is your i didn't ask you to tell me what louis says i know what louis is going to tell me i mean i already read those books yeah i yeah i want to i read those books did you read the 10 books i read before i read that book right and i want your opinion because if you cannot formulate your own opinions you're not going to be able to be a good coach yeah i'll just read the books you know because you're now you can't promote that if you don't have it in your heart or heart like you have the mash method and i know a lot of what's in here is influenced

too by what you've seen in your experiences and what coach mccauley's seen in his right but that's the method in here and you've absorbed some of what coach macaulay has and i'm sure coach macaulay's absorbed and probably harder for him to absorb some of your stuff because he's a and he's a traditional yeah traditional weightlifting i use 120 of a clean and jerk max travis mash we're maxing out in a squat and if it's 500 over my clean max i think that's pretty good i'm happy yeah yeah so you know so i think that's where i need to know what your thought process is and i and and again everybody needs to make something their own like i'm extremely humbled when people say i do the tier system but i hope you're making it your own tier system. Right. I mean, I'm just giving you the groundwork. Like I built the tier system off of other people's templates,

like studying the four day splits of a Mike Gentry, studying the four day splits of Boyd Epley and Husker power, studying the four day splits of John Gamble when he was at Virginia, studying Kevin Yoxel's program when he was, yeah, at Auburn, studying Doc Crease's stuff when he was at Colorado, studying Rock Gullickson's stuff when he was at Montana State. You know, just absorbing and just learning and trying to figure out. And again, I learned how to do that through watching coaches, like how they break down film and plays. I broke down programs.

What's their exercise order? Why'd they pick this? Is there any fluidity to what's going on? Like, if you look at, if you look at a tier system program, you'd be like, whoa, man, this is all over the place. But when you start to connect the docs, it's got, it's got, there's a simplistic method to the math. Like I, and again, when you've, when it's your program, it's easy when you, but it's, and that's why I try to talk to people about, look at the simplistic model of what it is. Don't overthink and overlook what we're doing.

It's lifting weights. Just follow the order. Yeah. You know, it's not hard. Like, I don't care what you, I don't care what you write. I don't care what exercises you choose. The tier system is that template. It's the three days.

It's five exercises. Here's the rotation. Whatever you do in between those lines, that's your creativity. Right. You know, today's been a great show. And, you know, just bringing it back, everything he said is like what I've been saying about Westside Barbell. I'm not saying that you guys should read Louie Simmons' book

and do exactly what he says. I'm just saying read it, but read between the lines, just like Coach Ken said. See if there's something you can take from him that maybe you can add to your program, make it your own. That's all I've ever said. You know, like the general physical preparedness. You know, if your athletes are in better shape,

will they be able to work harder or longer? if they you know if they've got a weakness if they use some special exercises or accessory movements to make those weaknesses stronger will they get better you know if you just do those things right there that's fine but like you know read his book read my book you know and just read everyone's and try to take from everybody until you make the perfect workout program for yourself. Yeah, it's not deciding which one's better. It's taking the best from all of them. And leaving what you don't believe in. I don't know if there's a better.

You don't want to use bands on snatches? Fine, don't. By all means, don't. Just see if there's something in there that could make your program better. Yeah, Coach Kidd, thanks for being on with us today. We appreciate it. It was an awesome show. Find out more about you, bighousepower.com.

I hang out at Mash Elite. Hang out at the World Headquarters and spend most of my time in Charlotte. But you could reach me at bighousepower.com. We're in the process of rebuilding that site. It's up, but we've got a couple more kinks left, and then I'm on social media at bighousepower. That's good stuff. He's got some just hanging out.

I like having fun. I mean, I like to bring humor to stuff, man. I got a hard – you know, you work hard. You deserve to smile, and you deserve to make fun of yourself and, you know, let your players know that you're not, you know – if there's too many and you know to let your let your players know that you're not you know if there's too many you know we walk around with you know get your mean mug and i used to be a mean mugger 24 7 and now it's like man i got no time man i'm just gonna have fun and talk smack and lift weights and do things where you know like everybody's like oh

house man you ain't that strong i said i'm strong for what i do man i'm trying to just show you that at 50 years old you just got to work hard i'm nowhere near as strong as i used to be i wasn't strong anyway but in the end it's i'm just showing the average person just it's not how much you it's not it's not about how much with me anymore i mean it's about showing if you do things right there's longevity to it you you can still find honor yeah in working hard and i'm still making gains they're different gains i'm still chasing a couple of goals but that's why like i post stuff for people in my age bracket to be like yo man don't don't sell out and just well i don't squat 800 no more neither do i like i'm trying to deadlift 500 and it probably not gonna happen this year because you know we head to the season so i got to try again next year and somebody's like

oh man when you're gonna pull 600 i'm like 600 i ain't never pulling 600 again that that i i just like there's no just like just like squatting hey you want to go no squat meet no more no i don't want to do that that's too hard i just like having fun and training hard and letting guys know and lead from the front like that's the greatest thing about being a weight coach you can train you know it's hard to be a sport coach and not and not do the sport i mean you know especially football you're not going to go out there and put on pads. It's just not going to happen. I mean, there's other sports you can hit in tennis, you can hit in golf,

you can shoot some hoops. You know, football, I mean, you ain't going to go out there and do rugby practice either. There's certain sports like you ain't doing that stuff, and I don't blame you. But, you know, you just use other variances. Let your athletes see that you still work hard. Yeah, you show their knowledge by the technique you teach, by the film prep and the meeting prep that you put into helping them prepare

in other ways. Luckily for me, you know, I can get under a bar and motivate from the standpoint of, you know, like how many times – like I train a lot of professional athletes. I'm not going to be lifting when, when, when I'm 50, you shouldn't have to. That's my job. This is part, I believe this is part of my job description. When you're 50, I hope you don't have to lift. I hope you're training to just have fun and enjoying life.

And you've put it all in, man, because those guys, you don't, you know, it's, it's a hard life being a professional athlete, man. The body's wearing tears, ridiculous, but it's been a fun time. Cool. Thank you. Well, it was an honor to have coach Kent on with us. Head on over to mashaleak.com to check out more podcasts, free articles, all sorts of e-books and coaching, and of course, our new e-book, Conjugate Westside Inspired Weightlifting.

You can grab that one at www.mashalete.com slash conjugate. And I also wanted to give a huge shout out to the sponsors of our nonprofit weightlifting team, Intech Strength, Nike Weightlifting, Bipro Protein, Harbinger, and also MG12. Thanks to them. Thanks to you for listening. And we'll see you next time.