Barbell Shrugged - The Future of Barbell Shrugged with Anders Varner - Part II

Episode Date: April 5, 2018

Welcome to Varvel Shrugged and step two of getting jumped into the Shrugged family. Jumped into the gang. Jumped into the gang. We are upstairs at the Galpin household. Hanging out with Doug Larson, V. Kenny Kane, and Dr. Andy Galpin. This is a huge day. This is pretty exciting stuff. Not only because we get to do step two of me getting jumped into the fam, but this is the first time I get to tell you how much I appreciate you guys and the journey that you've helped me through in

my fitness career life Doug and I get to hang out all the time but I get to see you guys a little bit less but I remember the first time I heard your voice Andy on the show and man it was this really strange thing that somebody that was doing these really meathead things that i was doing in the gym but was studying them on a scientific level which i had no idea that existed i didn't know that you could actually take being a meathead and make it legit which is super awesome and you Kenny, you're coaching the message you put out. We've actually had a couple conversations in the past along kind of my dealing with a lot of the things that I was struggling with,

kind of coming out of the CrossFit world and just the direction of my gym and just a lot of the things that I was feeling and you were a massive impact just in very short conversations that we had had on just how i could become a better coach so um not to leave you out you're cool too doug i guess i'm all right yeah he's cool i attributed nothing to his life um nothing so this is super cool um just being a co-host the last month it's been an awesome experience and very cool to have you two here to just

rap about all things coaching there's nothing more i wanted in my life than to have you two here to just rap about all things coaching, strength and conditioning. Well, there's nothing more I wanted in my life than to have you three gentlemen in my bedroom. With all the ladies downstairs. Oh, yeah. You hear a couple crying kids. The guys had to sneak upstairs. Yeah.

It is an interesting moment right now because Doug and I have our arsenals, our small little tribes downstairs running through the Galpin stuff. And then meanwhile, the Galpins. Our super baby-friendly house. Zero toys. Lots of glass. Both Anders and Andy's wives are pregnant, due at basically the same time, June and July respectively.

So I think we'll have a lot of shows recorded up until then. And then after that, we have no idea. This is actually the final show. Thank you. We will see. But, Anders, this is a cool trip. I mean, A, we've recorded a couple shows that the audience will hear, and I think one of the things that it's really refreshing having your perspective

because you've spent a lot of time in this fitness industry you're very humble and open to the experience of all these things and i remember having those conversations with you and now seeing where you're at now it's just like this like vast uh opening of just trying to understand the this thing that's a giant wormhole. Yeah, I was really lost when I reached out to you, and I think you were beginning the stages of kind of working on the positivity project at the time. Yeah, a long time ago. And you put that podcast out, and I don't know why I felt the need to reach out, but it was like I was just going from this.

CrossFit was such a really meaty aggressive culture at the time and as it kind of started to reach the mainstream i realized all the athletes that were involved in it at the beginning like i think everyone that started before kind of the reebok thing was like we all knew how to back squat and then someone gave us this little platform to compete in back squatting. I was like, oh, wow, let's do this. We can do this against people all over the country. Like this is wild. And then a lot of people started showing up and we needed to treat people a lot better. And I think you were the first voice that I came across that was really taking a step back of hold on. There's a process to this. And we need to start talking about the system of getting athletes moving in a better direction. And how do we treat people versus how do we just crank intensity and focusing on times and weights and everything else that goes into it. And that's really, it led me to finding out where I needed to be and how my voice was being carried to the athletes and the members of our gym.

And then eventually kind of selling the gym and getting into a space where I controlled the message. And I think that there's so many people that are struggling with that message right now. They've lost control and they don't exactly know how to talk to people about what it is they do because we're in the business of helping people. And if you don't control that message, when someone walks into your gym or your coach or even if you're an athlete and you try and tell people, like, oh, what are you doing to stay in shape? It's like we should have a language in which coaches

and athletes can communicate about what's best for them. And you were very much the first person that started asking those questions. And that was, you know a good five five years ago so it's cool on on the podcast that andy and i do the body knowledge we've been talking about this recently there's so much information that sometimes it's really hard for even well-intentioned thought leaders leaders of gyms coaches strength and conditioning coaches to guide their people appropriately because the people themselves that they're guiding are being exposed to the same information that we all have access to so it's a it's a level of discernment and it's very difficult to manage all that because the expectations are mismatched often and um you know we're seeing it a lot with i know andy talks about this you know it drives him crazy

just from our own personal conversations both in science and in strength and conditioning and me more from the crossfit crossfit perspective but just that over saturation of information that there's no ability to filter the volumes of it with any kind of thoughtful way. You know, it's increasingly difficult. It is a great time because there's so much information. The downside is how do you filter it? And then how do you do things that actually make a difference positively? And it turns out adherence and sticking to things and doing the basics often are those things.

I think the best way to filter through it is to pick one person. I'm choosing Kenny Kane. I'm going to find everything that Kenny Kane has posted online and just mash through all of it. I posted nothing. It'll take you 12 minutes. I want to read his Instagram account.

The four posts he's posted in the last five years. Most of the things Kenny's posted are behind a paywall. 18 or over. Yeah, but picking one person, I know this person's super smart and just matched through everything they have. It makes it where you're not so overwhelmed all the time with the massive amount of options available to you.

If you just open up a YouTube app and you start Googling and you're just trying to find random articles, you spend way more time searching than you do. That's what happens when I try to watch something on Netflix. I'm like, I have 20 or 30 minutes to watch a Netflix show. I spend 20 or 30 minutes looking for something to watch. I'm like, well, I'm out of time. Okay. Don't bring that up around Tasha because I do that shit and it drives her wild. She gets so mad. Click on the first thing and go because I do the same thing. I'm like, oh, actually, I'm so tired. I don't have an hour now. Let's go to bed.

So pick one platform. Pick Barbell Shrug, Body of Knowledge. Go to whoever's blog you really like or whatever and just slam all their content. Just like reading a full book. If you read a full book, it's way easier than reading two pages of one book and then two pages of another book and two pages of another book. Just mash through 100 episodes and then move on to the next thing. Once you really have absorbed the full perspective and you get it. Once you start feeling like you can say what they're going to say before they say it because

you've noticed the patterns, then you're like, okay, I got that person's perspective. Move on to the next thing. 20 hours deep into Jordan Peterson lectures. Oh, yeah. That's who I'm doing right now. Jordan Peterson lectures online are totally awesome. By the way, for context, we didn't really fully say this at the beginning of the episode. Me, Anders, and Mike Bledsoe, we did an episode before this episode where we passed the torch to Anders.

Anders is now the new host of Barbell Shrugged. He was co-hosting for a while, and now he's taken over as the main host of the show. I'm super fucking excited to have you as the main host of the show, for the record. I think you are the perfect, perfect, perfect person to do it. There's no one I would rather go around the fucking world and interview super cool people than the three of you guys. And now with you as the main host, I'm super stoked

for the future of this show. So if you didn't realize what the hell was going on, you're wondering where Mike was still, Anders is now the guy. Mike is still very much involved with what we're doing. He wanted to do his own show. He has the blood. So show now, which is a super awesome show.

He's going to be posting a blood. So show episodes to the, the, the shrug collective network. So he's very much involved, very much still involved with what we're doing. But as far as Barbara shrug, the show goes,

Anders has taken over as the main host. Yeah. With that, I'm a little concerned about that transition because I don't feel like Anders, you have the beard. No hair, no hair. With that, I'm a little concerned about that transition because I don't feel like, Anders, you have the beard. I have no hair. I'm not confident

that you can make this work without a beard that goes to there. He's hairy in other places. You have to tune into the YouTube channel for that one. It's a total body systems approach. You've got to consider all service area. And arrogance. My arrogance. And perhaps the listeners will feel this as well,

but as you start to listen to some of the episodes that are about to come out, one of the things I'm really enjoying is that at the beginning of the show, we actually have an idea of what is about to happen. So I'm very thankful for that clarity that you provide. It's very helpful. And I love Mike, but, yes, this direction is super helpful. Show prep while I'm driving up. Wherever we're going, yeah.

By the way, we have recorded a few other shows with me and Anderson and guests before we're recording. This one took us a while to get all of us together in the same room, and those episodes went really, really well. So for the coming weeks, we have some dope shows on the way. Dude, when did you start being a scientist? When did I start being a scientist? What the hell makes you want to take this meathead thing and make it legit?

It's a quick way to get famous. There you go. Obviously. Clearly. You write a scientific paper. I don't know if you know this or not, but I have probably 1,200 Twitter followers. That's a huge number. 1,200. For everyone

that's at 1,100. How do I get the extra 100? It's like 1,000 more than Kenny. You do a one-year-long research project. I should think I have 1,000. You write a big paper. Six people read it. You do that a couple times a year. Dude, you get 1,200 Twitter followers in 10, 20, 30 years.

I mean, it's the quickest way to glory that I know of. Yeah. And riches. Yeah. All that stuff. You could take Amanda Bucci's class that we'll be talking about. Yeah. She'll get you like 600K in a couple weeks, it says on her somewhere.

Because science is so sexy. Check out what we're doing in the lab today. Yeah. I can't wait. What do you got coming up as far as science-y projects? You want to hear something fun? We're getting close to finishing the weightlifting study. Oh, yeah.

So Nathan Serrano and Kara Lazowskis, my two phenomenal grad students, have been just – like Nate is on fire right now. I think Kara was – this is Saturday we're recording right now. i think kara was kara this is a saturday we're recording right now i think kara was in the lab till like nine o'clock last night they're sending me stuff at three like they're just they're just barreling down stuff so we're getting close we submitted an abstract for the men and uh the world team and olympic women so those ones are all done already you took muscle biopsies from people at the World Championships. You're going to study those muscle fibers, et cetera.

Give us a few details on what you're actually going to do. Yeah, so the initial study is just looking at their basic fiber type. And then we'll have a couple of years of research that will take us to finish the rest of the analyses. But we're trying to look at these folks to find out. And I can't tell you who, but some of the people, it's actually interesting because some of the people that are very, very good in weightlifting are also doing CrossFit. And so one of our questions is we have some people that are just weightlifting only people that have been competing in weightlifting since they were like 10,

and then we have some of these people that are close to the same success in the sport. And so that's one of our first questions is to see, are we seeing anything different in the fiber type? And the initial profile looks like there is considerable difference. Whoa. Between the two. And I can't really get into too much more detail now because we've done, done, done.

Yeah. We just got to get, we got to, we just need some more work there. You have to be very sort of careful. But what's really cool is the females, we, I'll put it this way, it's definitely going to be a world record with what we publish. It'll be the first time in history, the most of something in history that we've ever seen.

So it's really, really badass. Wait, the world record would be which thing? What's the current world record? I can't really tell you. That's sort of my thing. I'm saying, i'll rephrase it though okay is we saw something in the muscle that's never been shown before oh uh so was it on the crossfit side of the weightlifting side uh definitely the weightlifting side the crossfitters are not very impressive i'm just kidding no i, they're all super impressive.

But the world team in particular, the world and the Olympic team ones, there was something very, very unique about them that was actually different than the ones that were like national champions and elite American open winners, things like that. There was a very large difference between them and the world team caliber ones, which is not that much poundage sometimes in terms of their platform performance, but the physiology was very, very different. So that, I think, it's the same direction, but it's just a little bit further for the thing.

So we just have to, it's going to take us a little more to finish those analyses. But that's the prelim stuff. It's very, very exciting. And, yeah, it'll be a lot of first time in history this has happened a lot of first time in history this has happened when it comes out when it finishes so could you in the future be able to predict who's going to be on platforms so by this study uh that would be the hope yeah um right now you have the classic correlation causation thing which is i don't know if these people are world team members

because they had that fiber type or they have that fiber type because they trained like that. Clearly it's some combination, but we don't know the details. So the predictive part of it is assuming that it's 100% based on training. And it's not. But what you – I don't know. Like I told Travis Mash when we did all this stuff is you can't answer those questions until you answer these first questions. But what you, I don't know, like this is, like I told Travis Mash when we did all this stuff is,

you can't answer those questions until you answer these first questions. Like you have to know what you're looking at underneath the hood before you redesign the engine. So that's what we had to get done first is just figure out what we're even looking at. So that's why Travis has every single national champion training at his gym. And that's why he's sending every one of his kids like, hey, bro, bro, bro, can you buy me this person for me? Dude, can I join your gym? I'm going to need some muscle fibers. There's a little bit of a prereq. I've got to ship some stuff out to Andy to see if you're able to make it in here.

There's going to be some predictive ability there, but there's so many other factors into what makes a world champion weightlifter besides purely just what's happening at the smallest level of the muscle. muscle yeah well people get confused about that is if you look at uh human performance or just human physiology we teach the human body as a systems approach right so we teach there's a nervous system we teach there's a bone system we teach there's a muscle system but that's simply not how biology works right it's not only like they're working together, but they are one. They're all the same thing. We compartmentalize them as being different entities, but they're not.

And so I say that to think whenever we talk about human movement or performance like that, it is a combination of all factors. And so if Anders and I squat the same thing, we could be getting to that same 700 pounds. I assume that's about plus or minus. A little bit. Yeah, right. Plus or minus. One of bit. Yeah, yeah, right. Plus or minus. Yeah, plus or minus.

One of those. Grams. Right? You should have saw my workout this morning. I think I got up to maybe 60 kilos total for my squat. Killed it. So it was great. That's huge.

I'm probably being very sore. Times 2.2, carry the seven. Carry a whole bunch of sevens, please. But anyways, if we're both squatting 500 pounds, we could be getting there differently. I love how you knocked it down, and I'm still not there. Not even close. I've never been close to 500.

It makes it an easier match. So we could be getting there differently is the point, right? So if you're 20% slow twitch, or I'll go the inverse so it's easier. If you're 80% fast twitch and I'm 50% fast twitch, but we could still be getting the same total human performance because that extra 20% I could be getting from more efficient neural system or better mechanics or better leverages or something like that. So yeah, Doug, to your point, it's only one aspect of it.

And in fact, if you look at something like fiber type, it's probably a lot more predictive of speed than it is strength. And that's, I mean, fast twitch. Like, fast. That's the reason we call them fast. It's not strong twitch. Right? Call them fast twitch. So it's probably predictive.

But that's a big assumption because also we just don't have any data on anybody who's strong or powerful. We have almost nothing on fast people, but a little little bit and just definitely nothing on strong or elite people um or powerful people so it may be a great predictor it may be a terrible predictor we really just don't know do you think that this is going to carry over into other sports and sprinting versus like a 400 or 100 versus 800, 1600. Again, we don't have any, like we've never really biopsied speed athletes.

I mean, we did one for a guy who was a world record holder, and there's a particular type of fiber type that's extremely fast. And I mean, we've done probably, we've probably analyzed 15,000 fibers in my lab now, and we found like 100 maybe ever we've never seen anybody with more than one percent of this fiber type and this guy had 24 but he's the only elite like real speed person we've ever biopsied nor i've ever heard of being

biopsied so that's a whole nother thing because like we talk about weightlifters and stuff being fast and powerful but that's a no that that's a whole other level of fast. Yeah. Like the sprinter people, the track people, they really know. I mean, you know this, Kenny. Like, that's fast people. So we don't know. I mean, you're talking areas that are completely untouched.

Wasn't that similar to what happened when we did that study with Dr. Fry at University of Memphis where we were looking at mice and heavy chain, and all the people that had high amounts of type 2B were more or less sedentary, and all the people that were trained at all had zero type 2B and had all been converted to type 2A. I've got to clean that up a little bit. Yes. The right idea, there's no such thing as 2B. Okay. Humans don't have 2B.

Animals have 2B. Rodents and stuff do, but humans don't even have 2B. We don't even have the genes code for it. That's sort of been... They used to think that in the... I could tell you the whole story. There's a video up on my YouTube page if you want to know the answer to that. AndyGalvin.com

I was just like, you don't want to hear the whole story. Smooth. I'll take that one with me. Thanks for that. Thanks for showing me how to do that. Part of me feels like. You should go there, by the way. He has dope videos on his site.

We're just walking around. Part of me feels like you knew the answer to that, and you totally did that on purpose. So I'll correct you so you can hear me there. He's so sneaky, man. Right. He's done this to me so many times. Obviously, we don't have to beep. Who thinks that?

Watch this. Watch this softball. Watch this. How many times he's done that to me in the last 18 years and i've woken up the next morning like wait a minute this is why i'm in this bed right now i don't remember anything from last night why my pants gone thug those aren't pillows damn it he did it again uh yeah so we don't have that fiber type really we used to think they did but they started realizing we don't have that fiber type, really. We used to think they did, but they started realizing we don't.

The really fast one is 2X, not 2B. But the point is correct. What we used to think was pure 2X, the really fast ones, they're actually 2A, 2X. These are hybrid fibers. They're in between, and those things are generally not good. No, not that they're not good, but they're only around when somebody's very sedentary,

for the most part. So as soon as you do any kind of training at all, those go away, but they're only around when somebody is very sedentary for the most part. So as soon as you do any kind of training at all, those go away and they get converted into 2As. So your point was right, the terminology was a bit off. Nice try, Doug. How dare you. Not speaking up anymore. Not in front of the scientist.

I hope you've learned that lesson. Well, actually it's funny because the abstracts we just published we found again brave i think literally zero and all the the weightlifters we biopsied almost i think literally zero 2x fibers and so we put in there because we still get comments like that from other scientists like this just further highlights we do not have pure 2x fibers like that just we never see that in people outside of this one dude who's a world record holder sprinter. So it's extremely rare you don't have that stuff ever.

So stop fucking teaching that in your classes. God, they're not there. But nobody has any idea why he just has this for some reason. Yeah. And other people don't. I don't know. I mean, you'd have to think that it's not trainable. Because, like we said,

anytime you have anyone's with the X component and you train, they go away. So it doesn't make any sense that you would train into that. Right. It just goes the opposite direction. But I don't know. I mean, he's probably just born with that. Who knows? So if you could come up with some performance-enhancing supplement

that could cause that conversion to go the other way like that, instead of converting out of it, you convert into it, you could probably make a whole lot of fast people and probably make a whole lot of money at the same time, I'm assuming. One thing you could do is make it rain. Yeah, I guess if you found a way to do that without killing them. Goal number one, make them fast. Goal number two, don't kill them.

Why does he look like a cheetah? That guy grew a tail. Actually, the cheetahs do. We actually buy some bears, too. I was going to ask. No way, really? Yeah, and the bears have a ton of 2X. And they actually have another one down that goes even further down the spectrum.

Are they more 2X after hibernation? So, yeah, they go to fast. Interesting. Didn't they have a lot more cross bridges too? Oh, way more. Like 10X more? That myosin chain is crazy. Oh, man, we're getting crazy on here.

Troponin, troponin, calcium, right, bud? So the 2B is actually faster than the 2X probably. So if you look at those animals, rodents have this, bears have this, the order from slow to fast, slowest is one, right? And then there's a hybrid, but then it's 2, 2X, and then 2B. And so we used to think we have B, but, again, we don't have that one. But the animals do, and so the B fibers are tremendously fast, and a lot of the rodents and the

bears had a bunch of that as well. And yeah, they go that way during hibernation generally. So it's really tricky. The understanding when you go to fast and when you convert your fast fibers to slow fibers, when you convert the slow fibers to fast fibers, it's not what you think. It's very, very confusing about like, there's actually a couple of papers that came out recently.

One of them showed that a high-fat, high-sugar diet causes a slow-to-fast conversion. Really? Oh, yeah. That's actually pretty standard. So it was high-fat, high-sugar causes a slow-to-fast conversion? That's right. So if you want to be fast, you should eat a bunch of junk.

You're going to have a heart attack and be fast as shit. Well, that's actually almost exactly what happens. The same thing with end of life. You get almost entirely fast twitch fibers. So you convert to almost pure fast twitch. But if you, the other group of, this is in primates, that also co-ingested, this is my friend Bob, who's at Poly Pomona, actually.

We're about to publish another paper with him. This is his study. That's where Eddie Joe is at, right? Yeah, yeah. So he works with Eddie. Okay, cool. Yeah, we did a show with Eddie, so you can go look that up. Right.

Yeah, so this guy's great. But one of the other groups got resveratrol, and that actually completely stopped the transformation of fiber type with the high-fat, high-sugar diet. So hyperconcentrations of resveratrol. I was going to say, they have pretty high amounts. You're not going to get that from wine or grapes or chocolate or anything. I hope that.

You could try. It's my ice cream, and here we go. And then another paper came out recently just showing some of the extracts from apples did the same thing. So we have a lot more to learn with what's going on with fiber type, but it changes. Well, you dropped that one. Was it like pectin in apples?

I can't remember what it was, but it's the same thing. It was one of the phytochemicals that's at a high concentration in apples. I don't remember if it was apple, if it was a concentrated apple juice or not like an apple juice like a store, but a juice thing or some concentration.

I don't remember exactly, but you can can google it the more and more you learn about just everything in this crazy world we live in like you learn more and you think like okay like now i don't know anything yeah like there's so much to learn does it ever get overwhelming where you're like fuck like i i know a ton but i don't know anything anything. Is it motivating, demotivating? Well, I would say at, what's the Dunning-Kruger curve? Something like that, right? It's the same thing. At this point, I just find it awesome. It just makes me laugh every time.

Because I'm like, I told you. I told you fuckers, we don't know anything. And so now I just have a different stance on everything. I'm like, whenever someone says, or they show me, like my students will show me a YouTube clip or somebody's Instagram post, can ask about this and i'm like i don't know maybe they're right like yeah maybe it's a 23 year old girl on instagram but i don't know maybe she knows something i don't know it's actually that's been shown to happen a ton now so the dunning kruger thing is interesting it basically says that that beginners and people that don't know think they

kind of know and people that do know know that they don't actually know. So the more of an expert you are, the more likely you are to say, I'm not actually 100% sure about that. There's so many things to consider. And people that are just beginning, they're like, oh, I know exactly what to do. 40% carbs, 30% fat, or whatever. They'll give you the exact perfect formula for every case because they don't actually know how deep that rabbit hole goes.

Yeah, I had a really good example this uh marie spano marie is an awesome nutritionist uh for the atlanta hawks and and a bunch of professional teams in the atlanta area and years ago i heard her on stage at the nsca conference she was talking about different diets and um she's generally not a fan of of ketogenic diets right but she was talking about how she uses them sometimes with the nba players because they walk in really jazzed to do it and and all these things which she basically said is look i don't know a ton about this stuff i know what's available but there's there's a difference between knowing what the research says and then knowing what this individual person wants to do is excited to do has all this motivation to do, and if I can slowly work them over time into a way that's successful for them.

And basically what she was saying was, my goal is not to show them I'm right. My goal is to help them win with whatever they're doing. I'm not against that. I'm not trying to fight them to show them how smart I am. I'm trying to help them succeed. They want to do that, fine. If I can't talk them out of it, great.

Then I'm going to use my full intellect to try to help them succeed with that plan. That's her fucking job. That's what she's supposed to do that fine. If I can't talk them out of it, great. Then I'm going to use my full intellect to try to help them succeed with that plant. That's her fucking job. That's what she's supposed to do, not to just tell them how stupid they are and turn her back. And that was a big point. That was years ago, and I was like, oh. Like, I started getting it now. So to really answer your question, Doug, like, I just love it, actually, because I'm like, I don't know.

Come to my class. You just hear the answer. It's like, well, I don't know. Come to my class. You just hear the answer. It's like, well, I don't know. Maybe. And it depends. It depends is a good one. It's all constantly. It pisses people off so much.

But you're like, I really don't know. They give you seven different answers to the question. You just pick one and give it a shot. I mean, that's the framework for why we did our show, for the most part, is to start having those kind of conversations where you're like, look, man, we got to realize. I just heard somebody on some podcast. Man, I would give you your due credit if I remembered your name. I apologize.

But some really important mathematical proof that's been around for like 80 years now they just found out as actually wrong so like i typically say in the biological sciences we don't know shit at all uh in the physical sciences it's a lot more concrete so math and chemistry is a little bit more known but now even some of that fundamental stuff i mean if you start getting down quantum physics you're like okay now we can be in two places at one time all right fuck it i you know i watched i watched particle and away yeah yeah i watched a full... Particle and a wave? Yeah. I watched a documentary on quantum physics

and it was just like, I'm not even here right now. I'm watching this, but these eyeballs aren't even watching. There's something in the back of my head right now

telling me a story. You're like, I can't. It's too much of a rabbit hole. I'm already lost. I love it. Yeah, it's great.

How do you use this crap as a coach yeah where do we go yeah apply everything you just heard but i mean that's your job yeah do you take this stuff and take it to the the teams yeah and you're like okay guys i mean are they even capable of like what not our teams but the athletes i work with. That's exactly what I do. It's why every time I've worked with a person, I never just – the conversation always goes the same way. They're like, all right, great. Give me the system. What do I do?

Send me the template. I'm like, that's not how I work. I get it when you're trying to coach 10,000 people. That's what you have to do, or 100 people. But I work with people one-on-one. So I'm like, all all right track everything for three weeks cut these things out right we're gonna do we're gonna change one thing at a time uh all this stuff like i just take it and i'm like i don't know i don't know i don't know i

don't know like you know i just had one girl i'm working with um she's an olympian i just started working with her uh probably last month or so and you know she's like well i used to do this this i'm like okay great let's do it she's like but then my friend told me there's a new paper out you know study out that says don't do that i'm like well has it worked in the past yeah well we're gonna keep doing it because i don't care no study has ever been done on ice baths and elite level weightlifters that are trained like that that study so that shit that happened with the three sets of ten three times a week and what that doesn't mean anything to you because you did that much work in two days. So, like, we're going to see.

We're going to see. We're going to test it over time. We're going to run our own little study, basically, on her and figure out what helps her best. I liked how you said that you're going to do one thing at a time. That's a big key. The more you know about something, someone comes to you with a problem, you say, well, we could do this, we could do this. You know all the options.

You can't just, like, dump a dozen things for someone to do. It's going to be demotivating. They're not going to do a very good job because it's just too much to think about. It's too much to do. It's too much to change. And they're busy people and they can't make all the changes at once.

So being able to select one thing and say it depends. I don't know. It might work for you. It might not work for you. We're going to try this one first, see if it works. And if it does, we'll keep doing it. And then if it doesn't work, then we have all these other options available to you. That's the that's the thing where we talked about the dunning-kruger thing that the

beginners that think they know they think they know because they think there is one way yeah but yeah but someone that's the true expert they know many different ways and that's why they're like ah they don't sell themselves very well sometimes because they they look like uh i'm not sure actually yeah because they're they're thinking they're not they're not sure because there's so many options not they're not sure because they just don't know what to do but the person who only knows the one way they're like so sure of themselves like you know it's like this and then people gravitate towards those people because they seem so sure of themselves they seem confident and because they seem confident people are much

more willing to to buy their products or or to go to their classes or whatever it happens to be. It's funny that it's counterintuitive. You'd think it would be the other way around. People that didn't really know very much would be like, I'm really not sure. I don't know all the options. And the people that did know would be like, oh, yeah, I 100% know what's going on.

But it doesn't happen like that. No, that's exactly what happened after I did Joe Rogan's show. Because so much of that thing, I was like, well, God, I don't know when I do this. So much of the blowback was like, this guy doesn't know anything. do this like so much the blowback was like this guy doesn't do anything I'm like oh yeah not like I gave a shit I did not read the YouTube comments don't worry I don't even

know but that's also when we had my father in law on Kenny Ice show and he's talked about the difference between an authority and an expert and that's a classic example of the same thing like you really will figure out who's an authority versus an expert by reactions like that yeah right you start to understand like somebody who is

saying that there is one way it's like the quickest way for me to i won't say lose respect for somebody but immediately be like okay i see where you're at like yeah i see where you're at and like i love you but it's gonna take a few more years for you to open up a little bit here. I actually find that when people ask me now, like, what program should I be on, I'm like, I can't answer that question. Like, I don't have time to talk to you about it. Like, there's so many options. There's so many different ways to approach it, and it's like,

how about this? What do you enjoy doing? Cool, let's do that. It's going to work. You're going to it's gonna work you're gonna if as long as you're active if we can get your hips a little parallel cool you want to change the least amount of things possible the least amount not the most yeah i think understanding that concept you can you can kind of surpass it in a way where you're like okay this person's beginner they're coming because they need help they're gonna ask me something that i think there's eight different

options for that person they could do one of a million different things and probably get a result with each one of them. Which one is the best? You can say it depends just for a second, but say like it depends probably for you. The best two things we could do is this or this. Which one do you think you're going to vibe with the most? Like which one is the most motivating? Okay, A or B. Choose A.

Okay, good. You don't need to tell them all 10 options. Just give them like some choice between like the top one, two, maybe three at the most, just to simplify it for them. That way you seem like, okay, I'm very confident it's A or B. And that's easier on the client.

One of the things that, again, drove Andy and I to do the Body of Knowledge is the complexity of this conversation and trying to spread that distinction between authority and expert further away. Because both of our concerns are the amount of authority that's in the space that clouds and makes a lot of noise within the space. And so as people start to come to us, we have the anti-Doug, you were talking about this. It's almost like the anti-marketing marketing. Meaning when people are coming to us, when people came to our gym 14 years ago when it opened, we had a baseline that Andy Patronik wrote.

It was a baseline of fitness and it was like a very measurable thing. So it was a very like straightforward idea. Now, when people come in, we've trained the coaches and we've developed an expertise within the coaching staff to be able to listen, kind of do what Anders is doing, going, okay, what do you like to do? But then simultaneously

helping them develop an intuition to go, is this person going to respond immediately to, you know what, let me see what I can do on a baseline physical test just to measure your, quote, fitness and something that's understandable and metric based. Another person might go to the opposite end and go, you know, what are we going to do to chill you out and do a little bit of a breath sequence to like calm you down? Because right now you're coming in strung out. Another person might need to be taught also how to breathe but to prepare for something that's very meaningful where they need to kind of energize themselves

in the middle of all this we have like disc profiles movement diagnostics movement screens and so the coach is trained to go listen to the person and then go this is how we're going to start knowing that the bandwidth this thing continues and the edges continue to go out further and further in each direction and the job is to take that expansiveness and like take the key pieces and get the person moving forward like the lady at the lana hawks like you've got to like let people be where they're at but then slowly expose them to these other things in principled ways but it's it's a process well you guys are starting to get into some interesting stuff though on the behavioral side of things and like the mental training that

goes into it yeah we just started integrating with some of our higher profile clients the disc profile so I've got a mindset coach who came in and he's certified and licensed to run diagnostics on these I use those those results and program workouts based on the psychological profiles, which similarly you were talking about Jordan Peterson earlier. I took a Jordan Peterson test and there's some overlap with those two as well, which we're not going to get into yet. The big five personality traits. We might use that in a year or two, but this profile is hugely helpful,

especially with the small handful of clients that we're running it out on right now. Because what you get to do is you take a client and go basically this is what showed up on your profile do you agree yes or no cool here are some things that you want to work on and here are some things that you're naturally good at how do we combine those things into a workout you could do right the same workout three different ways and have them psychologically look at it in three different ways, which is pretty interesting to program that way. And simultaneously get adaptations, which makes the science of it even that – so now we're taking mindset stuff with science and we always laugh. Is it eight reps? Is it 22 reps? Is it 15 reps? We're not really sure.

It's eight. It's eight. It's definitely not seven's definitely not that's very helpful no it's not nine but it's cool it's cool to kind of like stay in it and play with the the vastness of it but it is hard and like doug says you cannot confuse people because the last thing somebody wants to hear when they come in is like we've got nine diagnostics yeah actually i want to like you know like that's not helpful i wanted to follow up doug you brought up a really really really good point i think this the first step on that dunning kruger is realizing that there's multiple ways right but as you go up i made the same mistake in class i made the same mistake with athletes as you go up and you realize that you then the next step is to understand you don't need to tell your athlete all that.

So you're so excited to give them all the options and you want to lay everything out that you know to them and it's super overwhelming. When this weightlifter that I'm helping with, I'll give you two examples, two UFC fighters. So Sean O'Malley is a guy I just started interacting with and he fights actually tonight. He's this goofy kid. If you like fighting, you'll be very

entertained by this guy. I can't talk to him the same way I talk to his teammate. His teammate, Scott Holtzman, is very on top of things. He's older. He's way more mature. I can give Scott a bunch of options. We can walk through. I can dump everything on him, and then he'll go, boom, let's try this, this, right?

Sean is 22 years old. He's really goofy. He's super humble, but I just can't. I have to just go in my head, let's try this, this, right? Sean is 22 years old. He's really goofy. He's super humble, but I just can't. I have to just go in my head, have all that conversation, make a decision, and then go, that's what I want you to do, Sean. Like, period. I have to talk to him like that because it's just not going to work for him. It's just like you were saying, Kenny,

like you may run through all these personality profiles, but you can't have those conversations. You can't lay the whole thing out. When I work with a person, I might have ten different things I want to get to. Just like with Morgan, but we started off with one or two things.

We're going to do this for two weeks, and then that. She was like, oh, awesome. You want to change her whole life. The whole thing is just like, we're going to do this, and then we'll see. I don't know. We've got this and this to get to. Maybe we'll see, but all that's going to be adjusted but that this is the two things i want you to do for the next three weeks that's it it's kind of like the uh so i was watching you know the game yes it's like a brain game kind of chess like thing okay so they create an artificial

one yeah it was documentary but it's like basically it's basically chess documentary you're still watching TV. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Well, if you're watching a documentary, you're watching 20% facts and 80% of a movie. Just someone's opinion about something. But they created artificial intelligence and on basically how to play chess perfectly. And it was like, if one person makes this move, now we have 50 different options. And how do we weigh this out 50 steps down the line to make the best decision right now?

And that's basically what, like, I can't tell you where to go because we've got to do step one. And then from there, we've got 50 more things that we need to do. So if you want me to tell you how to run a 40 in four seconds, I have no idea. Because we've got way too far to go and way too many options in between now and that 40 time. Right on, team. Where are we going with this thing? You ready to do this?

Dude, I want to get back to traveling the world. We haven't been doing much travel lately. We're going to start traveling a little bit. We want to get some big guests on the show. We got Mr. John Cena coming up here very soon. We're going to get some big guests on the show. Yeah. We got Mr. John Cena coming up here very soon. Yeah, we're going to light this thing up. It's going to be dope.

Yeah. I mean, we spent last night in John Cena's house talking to him about fitness. Not even fitness. We talked to him about strength conditioning. A little bit of weightlifting. A little bit of weightlifting. A lot of life stuff. A lot of life stuff.

Really impressive guy. I've been lucky enough to train with him for quite some time now. You know, Lenny Wiersma that we have on? Yeah, Lenny. Lenny taught John when John was an undergrad. Oh, Lenny, for sure. Lenny taught John when John was an undergrad. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So he's one of his... Remember we opened up the show and we were like, so you're John Cena's sports psychologist. Oh, that's right. That's right, I remember that. He's like, no.

Wait, Cena's sports psychologist and undergrad? No, no, no, no. My buddy who's at Fullerton with me who was on the show a while back ago had John Cena as an undergrad, but people always now say,

because they know that, they're like, oh, wait, so you're John Cena's sports psychologist. He's like, no, I haven't talked to a dude in 15 years. Anyways, that's funny. That's cool. Who else you got on the docket? Anyone they can release? Yeah, we got Jen Escare and Amanda Bucci.

We got the Mind Pump guys. Mind Pump, that was fun. We're about a month out right now. Something like that. Yeah, that's enough. Every one of those shows is awesome. Yeah, they're really out right now. Something like that. Yeah. That's enough. Every one of those shows is awesome. Yeah.

They're really cool. Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson. We got Mike Tyson coming up. Arnold. Mike Tyson. Arnold.

Awesome. There's some guy named Arnold. Not Schwarzenegger. Random Arnold guy. We don't have Mike Tyson. And if some of those

don't come true, don't hold us accountable. Cena will be out next week. We know that one. That one's booked. Not even booked. It's done it's in doug's computer right now um but this is super cool i appreciate all you guys on this journey and yo we're gonna light this thing on fire it's gonna

be freaking awesome we're gonna travel the world we got a lot of cool stuff happening and um well you can't go any worse than blood so right like it's got to go up from here. I think that what is so cool about being a part of this Barbell Shrugged family here is there's a lot of shows that sit around and maybe talk about fitness. But for the last six and a half years, this thing has been kind of the center of calling out all the BS with the scientists. We're kind of leading the charge in coaching. And I think where we're going is to make sure that we keep this thing at the epicenter of fitness for as far as we can take it.

Absolutely. We'll see you guys next week. Cool.