Barbell Shrugged - The Power of Heavy Carries: Grip, Core, and Conditioning with Doug Larson, Travis Mash & Dr. Mike Lane #836

Episode Date: February 18, 2026

In this episode, Doug Larson sits down with Dr. Mike Lane and Coach Travis Mash to break down one of the most effective tools in strength and conditioning: heavy carries. From farmer's walks and yoke carries to unilateral overhead and bottoms-up kettlebell variations, they explore why these simple movements deliver massive returns. The group discusses programming strategies, including time and load progressions, limiting overhead carries for sport specificity, and using tools like the trap bar for heavy work. They also explain how carries are self-instructive for bracing, build spinal and scapular stability, and develop grip strength that transfers directly to sport and daily life. The conversation expands into conditioning, youth training, and coaching philosophy. They unpack rucking versus running for sustainable cardio, strongman medleys for high-intensity conditioning, and how suitcase carries target often-neglected stabilizers like the quadratus lumborum and glute medius. The episode also tackles the controversial topic of thoracic flexion under load and the broader risk-versus-reward discussion in high-performance training. Ultimately, the message is clear: heavy carries are simple, scalable, and effective. Links: Doug Larson on InstagramCoach Travis Mash on Instagram

Shrug family. Doug Watson here and today on Barb Bell Strug, we break down one of the simplest and most effective tools in all strength, and heavy carries. We dive into why heavy carries, real world core and grip strength, hip and pelvic stability, as well as anaerobic conditioning, better than almost anything else. We cover heavy farmer's walks, suitcase carries, overhead variations, programming, progressions, thoracic flexion and spinal safety, youth training and strong man medleys. So if you want to get brutally strong with minimal complexity, this episode is for you. Enjoy the show. Welcome to Barbell Strug. I'm Doug Larson here with Dr. Mike Lane and coach Travis Mash. Today we're talking about heavy carries, which I've been doing a lot of lately for many reasons for myself. And I've also been training with my boys more and more over the last few months. And I feel like heavy carries are such an easy thing for kids to do that just pick up some heavy kettlebells and walk around. So I've been thinking about those a lot more lately. But I wanted to get your guys' take on kind of all the pros and cons of heavy carries, all different variations, benefits for different populations, et cetera. I'm going to kick it to you, Dr. Mike Lane, first, since you have a bit of Strongman experience.

What's your background with heavy carries? So aside from my prolific emotional baggage, definitely a solid amount built in over the years of both, should we say, punishment of having to do piggyback rides, farmers, sorry, firemen's carries and things along those lines. And then, of course, yes, competing in Strongman, which is usually like Yoke farmers. and I was never fast in the sport, but I was pretty strong. So I could carry heavy loads, decent distances, but it was definitely never that first step quickness. So that was kind of, yes, I will, the first time I ever did True Farmers handles,

I believe they were called grenade handles, but we also called them Devils handles, because within a 50-foot run with 225 per hand, I was bleeding from four spots between my two hands. because of the angry neural, yes, on Matt Reynolds, yeah, on his farmer's handles. And that was definitely a moment of being humbled in a variety of ways. And I have since, you know, still incorporate loaded carries,

just I'm not willing to bleed for it, get the same amount of enthusiasm as I once did. Right. Do that? Yeah, what about you, Mash? We use them a lot. You know, for both weightlifting, athletic performance, even if I were coaching that, you know, adults I would do it.

I think, you know, when people talk about core, I can't think of anything that really trains the core more than like a carry, just because to me the core is like anything that is going to stabilize the spine and the scapula. And like the spinal erectors arguably are going to stabilize it much more than the NBs, abs just pull your forward. So like, you know, with carries, plus overhead carries for stability. Weight lifters can't beat, you know. How do you program overhead carries?

Overhead carries, you know, a lot of times I will do unilateral. So we'll do like a kettlebell because, you know, like in weightlifting, we're always so bilateral. Like, you know, you never know, is there some, is there some type of asymmetry? So it's a great way, number one, to be able to monitor any type of dysfunction there. But so like I program a lot with kettlebell, unilateral carries, uh, for time. I don't try to go too far over like 30 seconds because then it becomes not very specific because you're ever only going to hold a snatch or a jerk for a few seconds. So it doesn't seem to make sense to go much past that. Yeah.

But at the same time, depending on how long your driveway and your commute is to put your groceries into your home, you know, you might be talking about farmers carriers for over a minute, depending on how many stairs you have to go up. So there's some transfer to daily life. So I definitely like that, you know, I really do when it comes to like the front carries, the front loaded, like those are so torturous when you don't carry like a sack or something because it makes breathing so dang hard. Like, but you get a lot of, you know, great stimulus, especially once again in the spine. Like, you can't beat it. And it's safe because it's so isometric in nature. Like, you know, you can do those things every single day almost. And, you know, you're not going to have to have a lot of recovery time for that.

that. Dude, like 20 years ago, we had this with big dude that he'd come in and do strong man training with us on Saturdays at the gym and went to a competition. He was carrying a Hussafel Stone and he's like, again, he's like 400 pounds, big dude, huge dude. And he was holding his breath carrying that Hussafelstone and he fucking just straight up passed out while carrying it. Oh no.

He dropped it not on his foot or any of his body, fortunately. And then he fell back unconscious. and his head whipped back and you would think his head would then you know contact the concrete nope he was so big his head whipped back his back his back his back hit the ground his head slung back but didn't even touch the ground that's how round he was like he's just a big dude that he didn't even hit his head when he fell on his back oh my god so he was like totally pod he'd get up and he just walked away no big deal god that upper back came but i mean there lies the reality which is you put somebody under a loaded carry it's nice because it so

self-instructs. Like when you talk about racing through your core, which then, of course, yeah, you can't use your diaphragm like you normally would. And so how many people like, I can't breathe like, well, you can because you just talk to me, but at the same time, you're heavily restricted. Yes. So it's kind of like the Goblet Squad. It's one of those that it kind of instructs a lot intuitively just because of the positioning that, you know, you can only order prisoner squad if you're going to go like that front squad variation.

Like you drop that chest or you lower those arms, like you know where that bar is going every time. You can't be like a one-arck, you know, or suitcase carry, they might call it when it comes to just like health for the spine, health for the hips, you know, because you're going to get the, you know, the quadratus lumborum, you know, the glute medias, like we're so hard for either one of them to really be, you know, targeted. And so here you can actually guarantee that you're getting that equal distribution from right to left.

So. And I think within that, do you think about the. context of it, which is, don't get me wrong, best way to train any muscle is through lengthening and shortening. Whereas when we're doing loaded carriage, we're really training isometric. So what you're getting is obviously great activation of that muscle, which we can then go over and do clam shells, or we're talking gluten meat. But learning how to dynamically use the glute meat in a way that transfers over to life. Right. Something that, you know, if you're, yeah, if you're trying to make someone lift, you know, more than body weight,

single arm suitcase carry, like, I would really want to know your argument behind. what the utility is, but if you're going to have some, you know, grandma just trying to carry a 16 pound kettlebell in one hand and like, whoa, shoot, like, I mean, that's half a, that's twice a gallon of milk. So the chance that she's going to have her move her groceries and be just put in the same awkward position, we can control that a lot more in a gym than trying to navigate your home. No doubt. And everything else that comes with it. God, when I did the grid, you know, when the grid first came out, and Carolina had a team, And at the time when it first started, they had to have a master's on each team.

And so they were recruiting me for that. But I was super pumped. It was like $2,500 for each match. I'm like, that's awesome. Get to play a game and make money. But the carries was a big part of it. And so super heavy. Like, the grid was going to be so much fun.

I wish it had worked a little bit better. But we were working up to some heavy carries. It's such crazy, gnarly over there. like 245 pound for 20 reps shouldered a red like unbroken was the goal which i did it but like god it was some crazy stuff man yeah yeah grip was nuts with how heavy the weights were for for how many reps they were requiring and how like they wanted you to cycle those weights like the first time i did that 245 i held my bread you know like for any strength that lead is what you do you hold your breath and i got to like 11 or 12 and just literally i mean

locked up it was like rigamortis set in and i learned to breathe and i figured it out but it was such a learning curve for me yeah you're mentioning the one-arm carries a second ago dude i've always loved one-arm carries like especially like when i used to fight a lot like i used to love doing heavy one-arm carriers i felt like it was just like one of like the like the strongest like stability things that i could do for myself as a fighter and now that i'm again training my kids like i did this yesterday with my eight-year-old like just one-arm carries in the driveway he's like He's a little dude. He doesn't have any like real physical labor responsibilities in our like in our like easy suburban life over here. And so, you know, but heavy heavy one arm kettle bow carries is like some I don't have them instruct them how to do it correctly. Like there's some amount of very minor technique involved. But for the most part, you just pick it up and walk with it and it'll be fine. And we can worry about the details later. Um, or he can just pick it up. You don't need to warm up for it. There's no there's no. It's just pick it up and go. It's easy and simple walk out in the garage and just get started right away with something that requires no. Um, or he can just, it's no. It's just, it's just pick it up for it. It's instruction. I like to do it first in part because it doesn't require any instruction.

You go out there and then like you're like, okay, now stand here and move feet, set your feet and then the feet wider. You start going right into all this talking. Like you're not working out. Like you're not working out. Like I like to go out there and be like, all right, pick up the kettlebell, go around both cars and come back and then switch hands and like, we're going to do three rounds of that. And then like you're just, you're just into it right away. And that seems to work really well for his. He's a little ADHD eight year old. Like yeah, he needs to just get right into it or he's going to walk away. They don't want to be getting coached by dad like, you know,

you know, like right away, they're like, my God, I've been at school. Like, yeah, they just want to go have fun and hang out with you. Agreed. The least amount of talking you can do, the better off you are. Dr. Andy Galpin here. As a listener of the show, you've probably heard us talking about the Artea program, which we're all incredibly proud of. It's a culmination of everything Dan Garland and I have learned

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That's A-R-E-T-E-Lab.com. Now, back to the show. What about other types of, you mentioned, like, yokewalks, as an example earlier. Like, I don't do all of yoke walking these days. I used to love doing it, but not so much anymore. For the most part now, it's like it's mostly just farmers carries, single arm or double arm, but you guys still have yoke walk these days? Oh, yeah.

I mean, I don't know if Dr. Lane does, but I do for sure. I try. I mean, I use it for GPP too. Like, you know, now that I'm into this whole, like, trying to live a long time or whatever you want to call it. longevity or like functional frame but like I know but like I'm trying to do a lot of just make it fun I don't want to go do I don't want jog like I want to get conditioned so you know carries are a great way to do that like and I love the yoke walks mixed with some sled pulls you know Andy is the one who it totally made sense listen to them talk about VO2 max improvements for

via two max and the different ways of getting in the shape but you know finding the way of like mixing all that carries with the pulls. It's such a good way to train. And you're right. We don't do any labor anymore. So, you know, like we don't move in all this different ways that our ancestors just did because they had to. So it's good to throw this back in. Yeah.

And then there's the stress part of it and all getting eaten by lions and other wildlife. There's a number of things that, yeah, are different. Yeah. I guess whenever, when you say heavy carries and you say yoke, I immediately think Strongman, which in my mind, we're talking a minimum of one and a half times body weight on your back for that to even count. And there's people here that do strong men. They're like, bro, it doesn't start to your over 2x, which is cool.

Like that's what you're competing, which makes sense. But for the cardio side, I couldn't agree with the mesh more. Like one of my favorite types of doing cardio is rucking because, you know, just like the American flag, these colors don't run. No, but in reality, like I would rather artificially make myself be over 250 pounds. and then go, you know, rock a little over three miles an hour. So we're in a heart rate strap. You know, I'm zone two, flirting with zone three, especially if I'm going up a hill.

And like getting in good movement because if I instead was, you know, unencumbered, I'd have to jog. And again, I don't want to do that because I just don't enjoy it as much and just the impact on joints and whatnot. So, you know, rucking is far more sustainable with my body over the long term than long distance running. That's cool. So I think there's something to be said there But also at the same time with MASH's point of like zone five work

Like you want to give yourself a gut check You know strong man medley You can go farmer yoke sled You know just whatever you want to do And just like start the clock Go for X amount of times I mean heck last night I had the the sled loaded up

And it was just forward drag backwards drag Three minute rounds just go into the pain cave And do that for Do that for more reps than I wanted which that number is more than zero, as you suspect. But heart rate strapped, you know, heart rate was over 170 and hated every second of it. But, you know, at the same point, anyone watching me, like, that guy's going really slow. And he looks like he's going through something.

But it still beats going and doing long distance running from my enjoyment perspective. So we're clear. You know, I think if you, you know, if you add like straw man and then you do some, the pulls and, you know, especially in a prowler, My God, you're going to get zone five for sure. And you might, and you might have fun doing it. You know, you do some yolk with some, you know, suitcase carries. Then you drag a sled backwards and then you push a prowler. Like, it's fun.

And, you know, you might be, and you're tired. And my gosh, you're getting zone five, but you're having a good time doing it. And like, I don't know why you think if people, you know, you want to, you don't, they want to make zone five work not fun. I always have fun getting killed. Exactly. You're going to adhere to things you enjoy, plain and simple. And, you know, I'm a big proponent of it's the sequencing.

And that's where people screw themselves because they'll start with the backward sled drag. And then they'll try to farmers. And your grips already got a little bit into you holding on to the handle. So it's like if you're going to yoke, yeah, you can throw that in midway through. Like go for it. You know, get that spinal loading as long as you can stabilize it. But I'd rather farmers or waiters first drop it and then do sled because sled's a low skill. it's just left foot, right foot, grind into it.

Same thing with prowler. Like, you can lean on that sucker all day long. Yeah. But, you know, once your grip's gone for, you know, the farmers, that's it. And the other one that we haven't touched on yet is wheelbarrow carries, which is a great variation. And you're still talking dynamic core stabilization. And whenever I work with athletes and you got groups of them, I'm all about how do you keep them all busy? So the key thing is one of them has to be in the whale barrel.

The other is carrying it. Like, congratulations. You've got two people that can't screw around. One person's being carried. One person's working. Just like piggyback rides, bridal carries, you know, firemen carries. You make athletes do that for especially like athletes like wrestlers that already have to have really good body. We have relative strength like, hey, you guys are in the same weight class.

So carry him in front of your body, aka who's a hold? And so you're talking about isometrics in the upper body while you're still making them cover distance. Like what about? What about? What do you think about, you know, when people take the kettlebell, bottom up, I mean, Like, is it just a balanced thing? Is there anything at all that's valuable? I think the bottom up.

The best way to think about all these things is what's your rate limiter? You know, that's why the whole, you know, farmers first and then backwards drag second, because the farmers is going to annihilate my grip. And then I probably have enough that I can still kind of hold on to the strap backwards or just put it, you know, around my waist and just drag it with my hips. Whereas if we think about the bottoms up press, the first thing that's going to fatigue is going to be probably your hand

because you're smash it or maybe a little bit of wrist extensors flexors, maybe rotator cuff or just whatever position you're trying to hold it in but it's sure shit is not going to be your legs it's not going to be your core your shoulders. It's like I got questions. Yeah. I was put it into the scapular stability category

personally like the vast majority of the time. We were talking about the bottoms up I mean but would you not stabilize them more if you just let the kettlebell down and just like, and now it's more stable. Like you would even stabilize its scapul. Yeah, go to like a front rack, go to, you know, go to a waiters walk. And or, you know, and I think the other utility of carries is building that into rest periods.

So like, you know, if your carry, the fatigue you're going to get from doing a carry outside of the bottom is up is not going to probably mess with your pressing strength, especially if you're doing something like a true bench press or incline where you're locked in. So like, if you want to get them to be doing. in something just so that, you know, we're putting a bigger metabolic stress. We're just aiming for training density because we got half an hour with the athlete. Like, you know, do it to it, you know, because we don't have that perfect like we must take five minutes in between each of our maximal attempt so that we can make sure that our

adenosine triphosphate creatine systems are maximally recharge. Like, cool, this is Earth, bro. Yeah. Right. You know, with your experience with your kids, you're tried much like sandbags or like, you know, carries or like I don't sure having them carry around kegs unless you want to make sure your kids are ready for college. Sorry, bad joke. That's a bad joke.

Yeah, I mean, I certainly would. I just don't have any of that stuff at the house. Like I pretty much have like, you know, adjustable dumbbells, kettlebells, you know, some, some smaller kid barbells and whatnot. But, but I don't have like a few implements and that's really about it. So it's a lack of variety or lack of accessibility. But if we had sandbags and more med balls and that type of stuff here at the house, then they certainly would. but for the most part, kettlebells is kind of like my primary implement with my kids at the moment. And it goes to like their interest.

Like what do they respond well to? They seem to be willing to do kettlebell things. And so I just gravitate toward that. Oh, yeah. Smart man. It's trying to make them do what you want them to do. You're being wise. Sure.

What about, you know, I use the tribe bar a lot for carries, you know, just like. And we're lucky to have one of the, you know, one of the open ended. And so you can do what kind of, you can do lunges with those things. you know but that's just a great way to load and see he's either it's super easy to get the weight on and off because it's got that automatic where it stands up on its end so beautiful way to do carriers yeah especially with some of those oh go ahead Doug that was always my favorite way to do like my heaviest carries was to do trapbar carries sure you can just load that thing out like like crazy so and you know again the rate limiter like if you've got two independent you know implements you're holding in each hand

you've got to do a bit more stabilization than if you've got something that they call it frame carry in a number of strongman competitions because it's unified like it can't get away from you because turns will mess your world up if you don't know how to like start the turn early stop the turn earlier than you think otherwise you're over correct and especially on how heavy it is so you definitely there's a point there and i mean also you know it's kind of when you can get like the real fat handle trap bars are the ones multiple options. I think it's, gosh, a camera, I think Sorinax made one of those at one point.

And there's, of course, another ones where it's like, you can have, like, those two-inch handles where, like, the real issue is going to be your grip endurance. And, you know, again, if you're working with somebody who does grappling, if I can hold on to a freaking sewer pipe and crush it for 60 seconds, how do you think that's going to be if I get a hold of your ankle or get a hold of your wrist? Like, you're locked. So it definitely has some utility.

No doubt. The thing would be is like I think a lot of people just do carries, but like trying to progress them. You know, like deep progressive distance, time, like weight, like there's so many ways. So you can literally like start with, you know, anything you want. And it can go on forever because you could just like you can eat add weight. You could go a little further, add a little time, make it a little harder, hold it a little different. Like it's almost, you know, it's almost an unendent. as far as the ways of progression.

Yeah, I'm shorting your rest period. I mean, I would say, and that's kind of where it's useful in of itself. Hell yeah, take the pain. But, you know, if people are looking for like a simple like, hey, take 50% of your trap bar bar deadlift, max, if you know it or 50% of your deadlift, pick it up and take it for a walk. See how you feel. Like, don't get me wrong. There's a number of strong men that true barbell from the ground.

They can't deadlift it. But they can pick up the farmers implement because it starts at like 16, you know, it starts just under their kneecap. and then, you know, they're going to lock out 100 pounds more. I remember the first time I picked 800 for farmers, 400 each hand, not 800 each hand. Okay. Still very much more mortal meal. But I picked it up and then I'm like, now what the fuck do I do?

Like I was like, I don't know how I'm going to pick up a foot and step forward and land on that foot and not eat it. So I think I like I shuffled like all of 10 feet and probably took like 30 steps exactly. It was like more of a waddle than anything else. Let's call what it really is. Because, you know, and that's the thing. So if you don't have good farmers handles that already put you in that good start position, you know, what's an easy hedge, you know, or just, you know, pick up two dumbbells that are collectively 50% of that deadlift or less because you're starting even lower to the floor. It's taken for a walk.

Let me let's dig in a little bit more controversial. Like what about the whole, you know, with that, with Stu McGill, which I love. I'm not, a lot of people, you know, it can go both ways, but, you know, when you carry it and you've got, you know, the, you got the, I guess the flexion of the thoracic spine or, you know, do you think carrying like that is safe, good, bad? Like, what would you say? You know, when you carry like a big stone or a big, you know, implement in front of you, there's going to be massive amounts of flexion. Yeah, and like anything else, if you've got asymmetric forces going through those interratertribal disks, like, yeah, it's not good. but at the same time, and this is not me trying to be cavalier. Like,

you know, everyone should really be mindful of what you're doing with your body, both what you're not doing. Sure. And then what you are doing. And it's like, what you're willing to accept. Exactly.

Like, does a human being need to be able to, you know, farmers over 600 pounds as a true functional life? Probably not. Is it freaking cool to do in a competition? Yeah. Based upon our own morality.

And so, yeah, the thoracic extra chyphosis is, definitely not a good thing. You know, if someone, you know, you got your client in the first time they do it, you know, they look like they're in like hurdle, hunchback position one. Like, you know, but if we can correct that and then, you know, that's the thing is like, oh, shoot, that hurts. Like, yeah, we need to get that chest up. Because right now, we do this with the ROTC cadets. They got to train for the AFT. One of them is that sprint track carry. And it's

35 pound kettlebells per hand. And they got to run down and back with them. So, of course, we go heavier and part of their training so that they get that reinforcement. to keep your chest up. Now, is running with a kettlebell in your hand? That's just like, is rucking with military service loads on your back good for your spine? Unequivocally no. But these guys are, these guys and gals are making choices that we're trying to make sure they're mindful of them. Like, hey, you know, there's a reason why a lot of people leave the military and are on some level of disability.

And it's not because they train poorly. It's because you beat the shit out of yourself, just like pro athletes. And so I think it's more of like, let's just be honest. that something has to kill us. I would rather go see the orthopedic surgeon because I've used my body too much than see the cardiovascular surgeon because I didn't see them enough.

And at the same time, with that loading thing, that's where it's the coach. Like, you've seen people do the same hypotic posture catching a clean or in a front squat. And it's like, oh, this is a weak point. That upper back sucks. So now I'm going to have you carry it in the front rack position so you have no choice.

So as soon as you lose it, it's over. Right. Like, what's the exercise? question we can do that focuses on the weak point. But a second, you know, you have that fail like you're just prisoner position and as soon as you lose those arms, the bar clacks to the ground. And you know, hopefully don't trip over it, but right. It corrects itself.

Yeah, as far as I know like McGill is fairly friendly to like all the, all the anti lateral flex and stuff like he pioneered a lot of that stuff like farmer like farmers one on farmers, et cetera, like mash you mentioned, uh, you know, glute mead and quadrater. Lumborum stability, that lateral antilateral flexion forces. Like he's very fondly to all that stuff from a lumbar stability standpoint. And I can't quote any studies on this specifically. But one point to make here is that even if you are in a flex position, as long as you're

maintaining that position, you have enough isometric contraction to maintain the position and you're not falling further into flexion. It seems that the amount of risk goes down considerably. If you are beyond your ability to stabilize in that position, you're falling further and further into flexion, especially if you hit all the way to end range, which is typically where like the muscular support kind of kicks off. And now you really are just hanging on soft tissue, tendon ligament support. It's not ligament. And that's where you're going to actually bulge a disc and, you know, have some real problems. But if you're not all the way at end range and you're not

falling further into flexion, then and you're, especially if you're, this is a, um, an activity that you have trained for and you, you've done this many times. It's not the first time you're doing something as in you're a strong man competitor and you're picking up a stone or whatever it is, then the risk goes down considerably as my understanding. I totally, yeah. I think I would agree, even in my experience, I would agree. Like, as long as you're not like, you know, coming in and out of flexion, you know, like we're getting more and more flexion.

Yeah, I think it actually might, it's a pretty good case of that a lot of the, even the vertebrae might actually respond to that and actually create, you know, sometimes. hype of, for like a better word, hyperchity, but like actually might get stronger in some cases. I mean, and we're going through a different part of the body, but that was the entire premise behind Louis and the reverse hyper. Right. How can we strengthen the spinal erectors under flexion

and not doing that with a barbell good morning? You know, where we're really talking about compressive forces, and so you're trying to minimize the shear to a certain extent. It's kind of blocked by your body. And I think within that, you know, the hermetic stressor. We, the body's making to get some stress. Like, we can't just,

the spine is meant to move in a lot of directions. The key is the loading, the intensity, the frequency. Those are the good conversations to have. And at the same time, with people learning just technique, learning how to activate those muscles, you know, I'm okay with they have that, oh, like that suck. Like, yeah, that looked like it sucked. Because how many of you guys have met somebody that does push-ups,

like they're trying to have their elbows touching their ears. Like, they're trying to hang out on just ligamentous and connective tissue, fascia, really, they're not able to keep the elbows close and actually use contractile tissue. And so the same thing was with the core. How many people lift with a nice rounded twisting jerking motion? Because they're essentially just living off of just those ligaments and connective tissue. Because don't be wrong, they require no energy. Like option one, if I could do everything off of rubber bands and not actually have to use my hamstrings, glutes, and everything else to stand up at the bar, like, that sounds great.

Right. the body's like okay cool but unfortunately that is not a great long-term strategy because that's how you get hurt right you know so a good balance too you know like learning to use that wisely you know the you want to use it all together not one or the other preferably but the speciality cycle is a very beautiful thing you use wisely so mike you said you did double body weight in in each hand for so you had 800 and you said that you didn't you weren't sure did you go yeah going to be able to take a step like yeah what'd you actually end up doing there like i said it was 10 feet it was it was not far i was at the uh it was at the ufsss yeah the that elite fts puts on i was lucky enough to get to be able to go out there for a thing that i like applied to and

yeah i had a had a lot of fun uh being humbled by very large human beings that are very strong and you know in one of the their strong men guys the actual pro you know had 400 on their you know farmers i was like i know i know i can and pick that because I've done at that point I had done a you know partial range of motion deadlift of like over 900 so I was like I can I can get that up where I go from there I don't know and like the heaviest yoke I had done in competition like I had done runs with 700 rephrase I had done events where the yoke weighed 700 pounds run is like when people say they're going for a run and you really meant like yag like a very soft jay like yeah like I'm not

booking it with that weight and so but You know, it's fascinating when you talk about redlining your stabilizers. You know, it's like the old school power lifters before the model lifts where how many of those guys, it was the walkout. They couldn't get the bar out the rack, get their feet set. And which is just like, you say that to any other person in the gym. And it's like, well, imagine if you didn't have somebody to a handoff on the bench press. How much would that take? Oh, okay.

You know, that makes sense. It would ruin them. And for some people, it would be fine. Like, it's crazy. Yeah. Well, for a guy like you, that's a good moderate stand. squatter like you're fine but those ultra white guys like they got to go out there then find that sumo stance yeah yeah vocal pull would never have been able to squat had yet not had a monolith

like there's no way to get in that position like a thousand pounds without really putting yourself in jeopardy bingo it's yeah it's that part right yeah that's crazy i do know i remember talking to a guy named kirk kowaski too about the oh captain kirk yeah and he said um with with steve guggins when they would compete against each other. If they didn't have a monolith, he would just beat Gagons pretty badly because Gagons had trouble walking out with it. So I feel like heavy carries

would have been a very wise thing for him to do. Whereas, you know, it was no problem. You know, Captain Kurt wasn't very moderate. He was like me. He wasn't very wide at all. And Gagins was like a little wider and not good at it. So he would struggle.

Well, and there's the thing. Now you think is specificity. Walking out a squat and assuming your stance, you know, when we, you pick up any load, do not wattle it unless you're doing duck walks, which is a special kind of hell. Yeah. Instead, you know, your goal is to walk like a normal person with those legs directly underneath your hips in a good stacked position. So hence it challenges the crap out of those stabilizers. But, you know, I'm a, you know, built like a damn cricket. And then I've got crazy long arms or long legs for how long my torso is.

So my normal squat stance is naturally wide. So it's, you know, step back. but then it's lateral movement, lateral movement. And that's what gets you. Like, please, God, do not try to do excessively heavy lateral yoke walks or farmer's walks unless you're sponsored by an orthopedic surgeon. Oh, boy. And he wants more practice.

Like that seems like a good natural selection event. Man, and I watched a guy speak, I would love to see bridesiders. And now, let me tell you how this relates to our conversation. But he was about to time out. And it was 991 pounds. This isn't, now this is single plies, not the crazy WPS stuff. He runs up to it. It was, to be exact, it was 400 and 50 kilos, would that be 990?

It wasn't 1,000, but it was almost. He runs up to it, gets it, walks back in a, it was the most insane thing, and set up in time and got the down in time. He only had a few seconds. And I just, and then he squatted it easily, but it wasn't the squatting. was amazing. It was the fact of how he toyed with that 990 pounds. He ran to it, got it and got back into position in seconds. It blew my mind, way more than the squat. And then he goes on to do a strongman that did really well, but then he just disappeared. He actually did the Arnold

and like one, the Arnold strongman. Like that dude, he was definitely West Virginia strong. That dude was crazy like i could do it but it was it was he was like kaka okay but my walker had to be perfect and precise yeah it was like a toy on his back crazy so drows you remember any of your numbers from farmers walks or yoke walks or anything i just said i would be lying you know i'd be exactly i remember some very heavy ones and knowing that they were near my deadlift in in like not being able to walk very far you know it's like in every step seemed like an eternity it was just like but they were so much fun and i i remember same thing it was during the grid period uh getting a little bit better a little bit better every week how far i could walk with like the near

eight hundred pounds but like it was insane like you see you're talking about doing it with uh four and pounds each hand uh i wish i knew my numbers i don't want to exaggerate and try to you know, say I beat Mike. I don't know what it was. I didn't know it was a lot. And I know taking steps were rough. But it was fun. It was a challenge.

You know, you got like 10 inches, week one. And then you get 20 inches. Well, and like that's kind of the cool thing about when you think about those really heavy loaded carries, just like when you think about really heavy Olympic lifting, just when you think about really heavy power lifting, like once you get to where you're snatching more than your body weight, stuff gets different. You've got to really make sure things are where it belongs. Like once you get to the upper threes in the clean and jerk, like barf,

that bar whip matters and you got to time it on that jerk. Like, and so the same thing. Like once you get to, you know, multiples of your body weight on the yoke, it's like, yeah, bud, you got to really think about how you stand up with this thing because it's going to how you take that first step matters. That's where I love the strong man, man. They really do like the only thing when I see them caring. such heavy weights which is ease that's when I know the difference in what when

they do the strong the power lifting stuff I'm like yeah no big deal I could do that too but when they do those carries and like and I in the or the you know the stones and they do it with such ease that's what I'm like that that's the different that's when I shut my mouth and I'm like okay I'll stay in my lane but like they they do such crazy stuff with grit and it blows me away and they they call me I every time I go to sorenex is summer strong i get you know i get my i get my ego and couldn't check crazy stuff ran in lily my friend who used to be a great power with her is now into the whole grip stuff and everything he doesn't even have big hands so that's no excuse my hands are bigger than

his and that dude just rules me and grip stuff it's crazy i didn't realize his hand because he's like six feet tall yeah i've got big ass from high so but he uh which is a big and people most people don't know i'm more like ed when comes to hands which is why you know deadlift was easy but like oh yeah brandon you know we you know i didn't know his hands were smaller in mine either till last summer he's like put your hands up to mine and sure enough my hands are bigger than his but like that dude's hands were i mean they were like vice grips vice grips oh and and i think going back to the point of like the reverence for anyone that's willing to work their body that hard to be that good at a skill.

And we have an appreciation for what that means. Like, I think there's something to be said about, like, what's the real gains? Like, when you think about what system, if you're going to go super heavy carries, your skeleton pretty much has no choice, but to be pretty damn robust. You know, your connected tissues and your stabilizers are pretty good. Now, you can get people that can carry, you know, that can walk with loads that they could not possibly even squat half of that because it's that deep knee flexion. you know, deep hip flexion, they don't have that type of actual quad mass.

And so it's like, I think of the way that my training is now, Strongman is definitely an adjunctive. It's not the main part of my training. And so, you know, you still need your more conventional hypertrophy work for your big muscle groups. But talk about, like we said earlier, great metabolic stimulus, great fun thing you can do as far as training. Like I got a pair of farmer's handles in my garage. I got a wheelbarrow that I need to move to a position where I can use. it more often. I have a prowler that collects

just dust because it's a freaking crawler and you guys know what that means. But, you know, I love you know. And that's why I know you need therapy. And that's okay, MASH. That's okay. We're all here to support you. But like, but you're like, anyone that's like, I love low handle prowlers. I'm like, I'm glad

you're on my side. But no, it's just a really good way to train the body in a way that obviously you can see how it has carryover. Aside from my glib comments about grocery carrying, but you know, I've got a one-year-old. So don't be wrong.

I'm not farmers carrying my child unless she's in her car seat. I'm that type of, but how often am I just carrying her over her shoulder? And she's 20-something pounds, and I don't really think about it other than I'm not used to holding a bicep isometric contraction. And then, you know, for that long. But it's just, it's not a thing if I got to carry my kid from X amount of distance.

And especially when she becomes, you know, a very dynamic sandbag that doesn't want to be on the ground anymore. But I'm not worried that my core can't stable. and I'm not worried my upper back's going to get thrown out. I'm worried she's going to punch her smack me in the mouth. Fun fact, and I'm glad we're recording this. She ripped out three nose hairs the other day. She got a hold in my nose, and I was like, oh, this is cute.

No, it wasn't. And I'm like, oh, and then like, there's three short hairs hanging out of her little mid. I'm like, so strong. You're so strong, and I'm so proud. How is she? A little over one years old. She's going to be the whole problem. Yeah.

Yeah. But, you know, like, Magnelli just turned seven? She just turned seven yesterday. And you always say she's like going to be the best as far as like the best weight lifter out of the group. Like what makes you say that again? I mean, it's just her ease to pick up the movements.

I will say this. Rock picks up the movements, uh, with ease as well. And like, and bear, you know, they're all are way ahead of most kids. Like they can all snatch and clean and jerk. And they're, you know, bears nine. I know he's seven, and Rock's been doing it since she was five or six. But, like, she just really seems to pick it up so much easier. And, like, with very little instruction, she can see,

and watch it and just do it, you know. So just, and she's got the attitude of, like, not wanting to get beat is, like, beyond the other, you know, like, she just has got the, her competitiveness is much like my own. And more than, you know, who knows, man, when they're 9 and 11, but like, as of now, I'm saying it would appear like, you got the dog in her, you know? I'll give you an example. Yeah. It was two Fourth of July's ago.

One of the, there's a kid that we have the fireworks on our farm. And it's like normally it's a lot of a church friends come and it's still packed. And this kid who's two, it was, it was rocks age. So he's like four years old. her tries to cut in front of her in line and I'm watching I see the whole thing happening and she took up and this kid is one of those who's just bigger than most kids he outgrows kids quickly and he's way taller than rot and she jumped right on it and like and she was unafraid of what's about to happen and I'm like at that moment I knew who she was and I'm like yeah I'm my daughter

you know exactly what I would have done and that kid backed away totally back going to give her her a spot back it was uh that's an example of what she is he just he's unafraid of anything so or consequences she just doesn't care so you can be good at early age like that yeah i know early age normally they're going to run to their parents he's like nope so i handle this like mm-hmm dude is how my my eight-year-old is that my kids are eight nine and ten right now i'm back-to-back had three boys in three years and my eight-year-old out of all the boy is the youngest one is the one who's the most likely like if I'm like yelling at one of the other kids like he'll he'll he'll stand he'll cut right in front of me and be like hey knock it off

and he'll like he'll like start telling me to like back back down like like you're getting you're getting angry knock it off dad you don't even tell him like be nice to him like my kids don't do that but he's the youngest and the smallest like even at the same age the smallest but he's like he's easily like the most he's like the bravest and he he's the most likely to like be comfortable with the with the confrontation and like i again he's he just turned eight but i've seen this like since he was like five or six he'll i wish they would stick it for each other more like that i encourage them to have each other's back you know i'm kind of like you know sometime in life you know i won't be there you so i hate that i don't allow them to telling each other like

unless it's like they're putting each other in danger but like uh i would love for them start you know protecting each other more like that that's what i'm trying to encourage so that if one of them did that to me i don't know what i would i would uh it would probably make me proud you know like yeah yeah it's like conflicting half of me is like hey knock get out of here don't just this has nothing do with you and the other half the other half of me is like oh yeah well-to protect your brother yeah yeah his brothers wouldn't do that his brothers would be like yeah get him yeah seriously i know yeah send him to his room get him and put him a time out I know, man.

I wish they would back each other like that. So yeah, I'd be like, you know, look, I'm the dad, but way to go. So I'm going to, I hope they, I'm going to let them hear this story. I'm like, this is what I want for you guys, back each other a little bit. So. Yeah, now that we're talking about this, like back to the heavy carries piece, like the strong mad medley thing, I haven't really done that specifically with my boys, but like setting up a circuit bar and some kettlebells and then even doing like, like you were talking about

earlier, I'm like doing like buddy carries and that type of thing. Now that they're all like, they've all just recently been consistent enough where I think I could like start to, I've been doing all one on one. So there's no distractions. They don't start fighting in the middle of it and just mess it all up. So I've been doing like one on one coaching. But I feel like I could bring them in and have them do like partner relays and

that type of thing doing doing heavy carries and they would really enjoy it. That's a good idea. You know, and within that, you know, you don't forget about the wheelbarrow. That's a great option. And then if you need to dust a floor in your house, backwards drags, you get kid one on their back on the ground, kid two grabs them by the ankles and drags them across the floor. Just make sure they're wearing a shirt and they're holding that shirt down. And that's the thing. Like, you know, you want to make exercise fun.

And it's like you're building some fitness. They're doing some other stuff. Like your injury risk doing a backwards drag on like a basketball court is just if you idiot factor into like a bench and fall over it. Like it's especially that age. Like it's still funny when they fall for the most part. And so, you know, I like the idea of, you know, you build those medallies, the other one, and this is now kind of going back in time. So we would name workouts against after people that may or may not have thrown up doing them. So one that we did, and I mean this out of respect, because this guy put it on the line, we called it the garth.

This was a prowler. You get three guys on a prowler. Guy one pushes prowler to guy two, guy two pushes back to guy three, guy three pushes back to guy one. you go until someone stops or you just sell like a time cap because then it's brutal because someone throws up yeah exactly if i go fast your rest period gets shorter and as i'm getting grinded down you get more rest and so it's one of those things but you could do the same thing with a farmer until like the guy can't hold it then you move to the sled and then you know you move to the backwards like as lord knows by the time you can no longer low handle it you can still high

handle it so i do have one question for you so like you know the whole bamboo bar or whatever the the wobbly bar there's like two different there's like the tsunami anyway so what about the overage jays at that or the dangling kettlebell thing like you know creating yeah yeah yeah they call the cutter bell and then and then you also have like the slosh pipe it's you know it's when people try to get and become i don't know zealots about it like don't get me wrong the time and a place thing i would totally have a young kid carry a slosh pipe. You know, you put, you know, PVC pipe, six feet long, fill it half with water, cap either end, and then have your kids try to carry that, you know, in a zirker, and then, or try to

carry that overhead, and you're going to look like the kids are going to fail a sobriety test. But, you know, it's dynamic stabilization, it's fun, it's not really challenging, in a dangerous sense, but it's definitely a lot of control, motor control and activation. But your limiter is not your core. Your limiter is not your major muscles. So it's one of those things If it's almost like an active rest Like it's kind of for fun thing Or like maybe in a rehab setting

The problem is is when people go The direction of all they're using is rehab exercises And they don't have anything that's actually heavy anymore Right You know like I've done the bamboo bar When I was rehabbing from shoulder surgery It's just a way to like you gotta slow down You gotta really think about your bar placement

And you're naturally rate limited And so it's when people think like Oh that's all you need like I'll tell you what if that's all you need, then I guess we don't need steroids for the sport anymore, because I guess there's not an advantage of being more muscular. Totally. I agree. Everybody that's really big usually does more traditional barbell training or genetics, you know,

is the unfair reason I'll never be six feet tall. It's just, you know, that little trivial training is funny sometimes. Well, sometimes, you know, then they'll say, well, the, you know, the lack of stability is going to, you know, cause more, you know, muscle fiber recruitment. That's not true. You're just going to get better at learning the movement. It's the situation of them being very specific about their goalposts. So they are correct in that you're activating arguably more muscle in the trilling it on

and off of your stabilizers because you're in a more of unstable surface. But unequivocally, your major movers are not firing as much. If you have me walk with farmers, you know, throw 200 pounds a hand. Like I feel comfortable. If you're listening to this in the next 20 years, I can still probably do it. It just might take a lot more sighing beforehand. But if you tend to do the same thing and you say, I got to walk on jello, like, dude, I'm going to want 12 pound kettlebells in each hand. Like that sounds stable.

Like if you're having to walk on ice, same thing. Like my stabilizers are working hard because I'm trying not to eat it. But my major muscles aren't getting the same. And then congratulations, we lost the metabolic demand. Like the other part of like that makes it brutal to do it is you actively had that massive metabolic demand. And the thing, going back to specificity, if we're going to think about who's getting the most out of it, how many times, Doug, have you been wrestling? And it is a big isometric contraction for 20 plus seconds in specific parts of the body while you're, you know, riding legs trying to fight for position or somewhere else. So if you know you've got that gas, you know, you can walk 60 seconds with an F offload hand, weight in each hand.

You know you can keep that hand locked. And they're going to have a hell of time trying to break the grip and you'll hopefully tire them out before they tire you. You know, it's a reason why I'd rather do rucking than wall sits any day of the week. Both use the quads. One's static, you know, and the other is a dynamic contraction. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, you basically had to set all this, but like the whole like prime mover versus stability activation piece is all in a continuum. Like the more unstable you are, the more stabilizer activation you get.

But the more stable you are, the more prime mover activation you get. And so if you're wanting to grow your biggest muscle groups, your glutes and your quads and on and on, then having more stability is a, is a good thing because it'll allows you to actually fire your prime movers and to fatigue them to the greatest extent possible, which is a large stimulus, which allows them to get stronger anti-perch fee and to, you know, to adapt specifically at the prime mover level as opposed to just the stabilizer level. So again, it's not like the, we talk about functional training versus like, you know, foundational barbell training the other day and about you don't have to pick between one or the other. But again, it comes down to like, what is the constraint in the system?

What is the thing you're trying to accomplish and then pick the right tool for the job? You're trying to be a 315 pound NFL player and you just need to get as big and strong as possible. And that's the thing that's going to have you get to the next level and then fucking win the championship and go to the Super Bowl and whatever else. Then maybe you should focus on getting bigger and stronger. But if you're a person that for whatever reason, like you keep like subluxing your shoulder and like you have no stability there for whatever reason, then maybe doing more stability based training really is the thing that will get you to the next level. But it's all a needs analysis and just picking the right tool for the job. Exactly. In general, I put most destability stuff under like a supplement for most healthy athletes

most of the time where the bulk of your training risk should be the foundational stuff that we all know is going to be the bulk of your training day in and day out, week and week out for decades. Yeah. And it's the same thing of the basic premise of working behind Rapid, which is, you know, what's your constraint? And so if the rate limiter in the kinetic chain is your rotator cuff, that's the reason why you can't, you know, snatch them out of weight, then we got to train your rotator cuff.

But if your rate limiter is your traps, you just don't have the upper back to hold it. You know, you don't have the triceps to stay locked. Like, we have to fix that. And what's the appropriate tool to use at the time? And at the same time, you know, if I'm a personal trainer and, you know, we know what really works, but really works sucks. Like if I want to put muscle on somebody, you're doing your basic compounds like that is what it is.

You're doing the deadlifts. But I can have you walk around with the same thing. slosh pipe and it's fun and like I stabilize my core and like but I mean if you've got a 20 pound slosh pipe and then I'm having them go over and do you know deadlifts with over 100 pounds the slosh pipe's not going to give enough fatigue that I'm really worried that it's going to mess with the deadlift but they're going to be like yeah he had me doing this cool complex back and forth and doing these things and it's just if that's what sells and gets people to adhere you know like it's we know the chicken the chicken rice and broccoli works but I tell you what if you give them a piece of cake at the end they're

going to be like, oh, yeah, that's a pretty good meal, you know. Yeah, whatever it takes to get, you know, to make people enjoy training, you know, whatever. And like, think that things are going well, like, yes. I mean, a lot of times, you know, where I'm the head of sports science, like, you know, I hate ladders. I think they're the worst. I think they're absolutely of no value at all. But I do it.

You know, because parents are like, oh, look how cool those ladder drills are. I'm like, whatever. Like, you know, like, if that's what it takes for you to trust me, then fine ladders it is man ladders it is you really are playing i'm sorry as a yeah as coach you really are playing many games at the same time like you you're playing the give the athlete exactly what they need game you're playing to give them what they want like the psychology game you're you're playing the marketing game you're playing kind of the media game what are what are people going to record and post on social media you're you're playing the business

game you're playing the parenting game like there's you can't you can't just do what you want to do and say this is the best thing like you can really really really might be shooting yourself on the foot by doing it so you got to give people what they want and what they need at the same time and kind of like find the balance in between like doing what you know quote unquote what you know is right and doing what's actually going to get someone to actually be excited to come train with you and stay for a long exactly because you know like ladders like aren't going to make you worse they're just not going to help like people think but so whatever we'll use them to warm up it will do that it's a great little game to get people, you know, get their heart rate up, you know, get a sweat going.

You're moving. All right. You can do some, you could do some like, you know, jumps, unilateral hops. There's some benefit to that for sure. But mainly I just do it. The parents see it. They're like, oh, this guy knows what he's doing. I'm like, okay. Awesome. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So never mind all the other cool cell were days. Well, and exactly. Like, there's the thing that actually is having the effect. And then there's the other things that just happen to be along for the ride. Whatever. I mean, this is me with your child.

Yeah. An entire conversation, but I want to go back to the point of working with, you know, pro athletes, you're just high level athletes, which is I like, when I say sigmoidal graph, think like stretched out letter S. And so it's flat and then it kicks up real fast and it's flat again. I really like to teach from that because the end of the day, you know, if you can't even hold on to, you know, to 20 pounds, it doesn't matter. You're not going to be able to snatch any.

anything. But if you've got a grip that you can literally hold on to 500 pounds, like you're in the top part of that S. If I take you from an isometric, you know, grip force of 500, which shit, that's intense. And I take you to 600, it's not going to let your snatch at all. Like we've already worth the top part of that S. But now what's your squat number look like? What is your technique look like? What are all those other aspects? And so that's the thing that people jack up as they look at like, oh, look, pro athlete does this. Like pro athlete right there is a 400 pound bench presser. He's a 600 pound squatter. And he's a 600 pound squatter. He runs a four or five. Like the things that he needs to be on that level are so nuanced and individualized at that point. Like you just, it doesn't make sense to you. I know, that drives me insane too. You see somebody like an NFL player and they're doing ladders. They're like, boom, I saw them. They're doing ladders.

That's why. I'm like, oh, my God. Yep, that's it. That is why. It's not the fact that they're six, six and run a four two. That has nothing to do it. It's the ladders. Okay, let's do ladders.

But then that's what the parents see. That's what the kids see. And they're like, well, why am I done not doing what he is? I'm like, well, you're 5'2 foot two and you weigh 90 pounds and you say you want to be a linebacker. Actually, you probably shouldn't be hanging out with me. Instead of hanging out with me, go to a buffet and just eat that. Go to Florida State and get on some of the genetic stuff. That's what you need to do.

Or go back and shoot your pants because they messed you up. Hey, you know, and yeah, gosh, that's another conversation entirely just genetic potential in fulfilling it. But, you know, whatever builds buy-in, whatever builds adherence, and I think that's where people get real, just why do we got to be mean about it? Like, hey, yeah, what they're doing is not optimal. But you know what? Whatever. What all of us are doing, you know, there's things that are not optimal?

But the goal is, are we trying to get better? We're here to have fun. Right. You're here to have fun. Then, like, a little bit of a little bit of. Exactly. So, like, when, how can we have fun? and still make good progress because those

exactly the moral the story with the carries like carry heavy stuff but if you want to do a little slush stuff too fine oh yeah absolutely there you go right on um dr mike lane where can people find you yeah uh mike lane phd on instagram feel free to come by and say hi we got to get to our website it's probably to be like something well i'm starting this thing that sells mostly air circulation devices i'm kind of working on generating my content. So once I have there, I'll make sure I share that. All right. There's a good.

National lead.com. So last of cool, I'm about to drop a lot of new courses, so I'm excited. Hell yeah. Right on. We are Barbell Strugg, a Barbell underscore Strugged. I'm Douglinson. Douglas E. Larson.

If you want to work with Dr. Mike Lane, Dr. Dr. Travis, Matt. I'm calling him. I'm just going to say you're a doctor. Like nobody knows. You're doctor. Dr. Travis Mass today.

Coach Travis Mash. You can go to Arteylab.com, A-R-E-T-E-L-A-B-D-C-com. That's where these men, along with the whole team at Rapid Health Optimization, including Dr. Andy Galpin, have a very comprehensive and very detail-oriented, very data and comprehensive program to increase your health and performance. You can go to Arteelab.com. Friends, we'll see you guys next week.