Barbell Shrugged - The Special Operations Community of The US Air Force w/ Lieutenant Colonel Heath Kerns — Real Chalk #95

Episode Date: October 1, 2019

I was lucky enough to sit down with Lt Col Heath Kerns and get a true inside feel of what it’s like to be an Air Force Special Operations Airman. As a child, I dreamed of this kind of life so to say I was excited is an understatement. We dove into some of the hardest aspects of training, his most memorable experience, mindset, advantages of being an Air Force operator versus the other branches, the resources that are spent on each individual airman and much much more! If you’ve ever wanted to be special operations or just hear more about what it’s like, this is the episode for you. I KNOW you’re going to love it. Connect with the Air Force      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show notes: http://www.shruggedcollective.com/rc-kerns ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ► Subscribe to Shrugged Collective's Channel Here http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Shrugged Collective is a network of fitness, health and performance shows that help people achieve their physical and mental health goals.  Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first Barbell Shrugged podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast. Find Shrugged Collective and their flagship show Barbell Shrugged here: SUBSCRIBE ON ITUNES ► http://bit.ly/ShruggedCollectiveiTunes WEBSITE ► https://www.ShruggedCollective.com INSTAGRAM ► https://instagram.com/shruggedcollective FACEBOOK ► https://facebook.com/ barbellshruggedpodcast TWITTER ► http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged  

All right, guys, this week's episode is for all of you out there who have ever dreamed or wanted to be part of the military special forces community. On this episode, I have Lieutenant Colonel Heath Kearns. It was a mouthful, and I did get very nervous introducing him on the show just because his name is so long. But anyway, growing up as a kid, that was all I ever wanted to do. I wanted to be part of the special forces. I wanted to be a SEAL. I wanted to be Army Green Beret. And I started looking into it and I actually did find a lot of great information in the air force because they have a, um, an attachment called the PJs, which is the pararescue. So I drill him a lot

on these questions and you can just tell like the excited kid version of myself is like really getting in there and answering or asking all these great questions. So if you've ever had questions about these things, like this is a great time to really get in there and listen up. And also just like some of the details he gets to go over is just so cool. And it's just, it's amazing to be on this end of the microphone and be able to have someone like him just sitting across from me and be able to ask all these amazing questions. So right now, currently the air force is looking for more people to be part of these communities. So we're just kind of like talking about, you know, what's going on, currently, the Air Force is looking for more people to be part of these communities. So we're just kind of like talking about, you know, what's going on, like what can you expect and all of the things that kind of encompass the life of special operations in the Air Force.

So if it is ever anything you've ever dreamed about doing or you're still thinking about doing it, this is going to be a great episode. If you don't want to do it or anything like that, but you've always wanted to know more information about it, this is going to be another great episode. If you don't want to do it or anything like that, but you've always wanted to know more information about it, this is going to be another great episode. And there's really not a lot of great info out there about this community. So it's going to be an amazing listen for you guys. I know for sure you guys are going to love it. So when you guys do listen and you do love it, make sure you tag me, let me know. Go ahead and quote your favorite parts or anything like that. And, yeah, I'm so, so excited for you guys to listen to this. So here we go.

All right, ladies and gentlemen, still out here in Lake Tahoe. And I am sitting down with Lieutenant Colonel Heath Kearns. I got it? That's right. Oh, man. That was a little bit stressful. So he is the man when it comes to the spec ops community in the Air Force. And you guys are doing a lot of things that a lot of people do not know about.

Sure. So what are some of like the – I know everyone always talks about the SEALs being there at like these huge, huge moments like when Osama gets killed or when any of these other big things that are pop up in the news, a lot of things pop up in the news and a lot of things don't pop up in the news. That's right. But no matter what, everyone always hears of like the certain people. And then you guys are the quiet professionals and no one ever hears about. That's right. So are you guys there at every single moment all the time and it's just not there? Yeah. Uh, so just about, um, depending on what, uh, what level of, uh, special operations of special operations forces we're talking about. But they almost always have an embedded support troop from either Air Force special operations.

That's most often the form of combat controllers and pararescuemen, and also TACP, Terminal Air Control Party personnel. And we've got special reconnaissance as well. So there's a whole, there's like four to six different jobs, all that fall under Air Force Special Operations. And so a lot of the models, you know, since 9-11 and well before, our guys have been attached with those other units, and just generally the ethos is just we want to get there and get the job

done um and because we seamlessly integrate with any other force that we're a part of um you'd often don't don't realize that we were there i know that's crazy because i remember like when i was a kid i feel like everybody when you're probably 15 to 17 like you start getting ready to be done with high school and you're like what do i want to do and i think special operations in some sort of community pops up in every kid's head at some point i mean i would think especially like watching tv and such like that nowadays people don't really watch tv anymore but you still see a lot of really cool stuff right so i remember looking into it and being like all right well the seals are really cool because they just have like this really cool name and then the berets are cool, but I never liked the stations.

It was like you're always in Fort Benning, Georgia. I was like, I don't know about that. I'd almost be a SEAL just so I could be in San Diego or something like that. And then I started looking into the Marines, and there was little things about that that I didn't like. And then I found the Air Force PJs, and I was like, wow, this is really cool. And no one ever, ever talks about them. And then I always thought it was interesting that first and foremost, like their, their main thing is to

become like really good Corman, right? Yeah. Uh, so not just the, the, there's the medical aspect of it, but there's also the rescue aspect. Yeah. And so that's, that's something that's pretty unique across the entire world that we would have all those skill sets embodied in one person. It's just absolutely like the highest end of training, all invested in one often young airman that is able to do all those, everything everyone else can do, shoot, move, and communicate, and then bringing that highly elite capability, that unique specialty that augments the larger mission. On any team, you're going to have 11

shooters and you've got one guy that controls either the close air support or one guy that's that rescue specialist. You mentioned the para-rescue men. That ability is to go anywhere in the world and recover anyone in any situation. That sounds like the training for that would be so awesome.

Like you must learn how to rock climb. You must learn how to jump out of helicopters, swim, all the things, right? Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, avalanche training. It's kind of funny because as a commander over them, it would always be like, okay, what crazy trip do you want next? We have high-performance snowmobiles. Do you get to ask them that? Like what kind of stuff do you guys want to do next? Yeah. I mean, that that's on the, that's on the team that just looks at all

the, I mean, it's just an insane amount of skills that they, they have and have to keep current on. So it's that, that team leader's responsibility to make sure that they're, they're good to go for all the things. And then they tailor that to what their next mission is going to be. If you had to guess, so someone signs for a PJ contract, pararescue contract, is that five years? It depends. So it can be either the, I think it's a four year or the six year contract. Okay. So let's just say, let's call it four years. In four years, how much money do you think is spent on that one individual? It's well over a million dollars just dedicated to that one person. Okay. And then that's just baseline.

So then you get and then you start doing the upgrade training to focus in on different aspects. Actually, I was working with a PJ that was one of the best marksmen in the squadron. And so the opportunity came for him to go to a sniper school. So he went to Army Sniper School as a pararescue man. So generally, a lot of folks are like, oh, I want to be a PJ. I want to save lives. And then, but they're not, they don't just save lives. Like they can kill a lot of folks and then save lives. Yeah. So that's like the, you know, the, the, the ultimate threat. Um, so yeah, he just went through sniper school and he's the resident expert. And that's like, that's how it all it is. Um, there is a lot of,

uh, a lot of resources available to special operations so that we can become experts in a lot of different just eclectic skills that you're able to bring to a team and bring that like outside perspective. So all of our guys, one common thing is like we're at the center of all chaos. So when things get really bad is when our guys are required to do the job that only they can do. Um, either, you know, so, um, and I, I deployed, uh, Afghanistan and Iraq. Um, and so, you know, I'm, I'm doing the same job. Everybody else is, I, I got my, I got my, you know, personal weapon. Um, and then when things get really bad, when, you know, enemy starts to ambush, uh, if someone starts getting, you know, gets injured, um, that's, that's our responsibility to step on the microphone and then start bringing in all the assets of the, you know, gets injured, that's our responsibility to step on the microphone and then start bringing in all the assets of the, you know, of air power, any branch,

you know, and coordinating all of that chaos. So either dropping, you know, airstrikes, doing gun runs, or controlling medical evacuations, that is all our responsibility, you know, so when things really get bad, it becomes, you know, our show to work, you know, do our magic as it's, you know so when things really get bad it it becomes you know our show to work you know do our magic as it's you know integrated seamlessly with with the larger you know force and all the things that they're doing and am i correct in the in the thought process that you guys probably have more funding than any other branch uh i'm only i'm only referencing that in terms of like i've had a lot of friends who are who are seals and yeah recon guys and everything and they're like man like every time we would get deployed like we always were like damn the air force guys are hooked up like yeah they had like the best areas

to stay and like i guess you had guys i had like the best equipment and stuff like that like they were always jealous of the air force guys yeah even seals that i know they were like damn the air force has it like legit yeah they uh there's you got to protect your kit when you deploy with some of your brothers because it's the latest and greatest. And they're like, hey, man, let me get a picture of that. We need to start requesting that stuff. I just think it's interesting that people don't know this stuff. Yeah. You know what I mean?

And then how many people have you come across who did like multiple different spec ops courses? So you have like, I mean, there's people like David Goggins and other people who they've been a seal a green beret and then maybe a pj yeah have you had people like this yeah um so we get a lot of i think most of our crossovers come from the marines okay um because it's that you know so you reference it you know as kids growing up they think you know what they want to be i say most guys like if they if they know they want to be a warrior then they know i mean i want to be a marine and slay a dragon i want to be like I say most guys, like if they, if they know they want to be a warrior, then they know, you know, I want to be a Marine and slay a dragon. I want to be like Charlie Sheen and be a seal. Yeah. And then they don't know who we are. So they don't necessarily have that option. I'm wondering though, like when these people cross over, what is their experience

like? Are they like, man, I wish I did this in the beginning or like, this is absolutely. Yeah. So you get some of those guys that like, man, uh are like, man, I was a part of combat. I love doing my job, but, I mean, I want to do it at this level. You know, I don't want to just have a rifle and be a part of that. You know, I want to be a rifle and control, you know, 2,000-pound bombs or have the best eye's view of exactly what's taking place on the battlefield. And that's the insane thing is, like, because, you know, just a lot of folks know about everybody else,

and so they're tracking what that is. But it's like, man, I do that too. You know, I have my M4. And I also have multimillion-dollar sensors that are directly fed to my chest. So I have a computer, you know, strapped to my chest, a small little handheld thing. And I have, you know, bird's eye view of everything going on in the battlefield. And then that, that, that joint terminal attack controller has understanding of, you know, cause he's tasking all these different aircraft and he sees what they see. And so,

you know, I would, I would tell aircraft, okay, I want you, you know, you two guys to follow, you know, the enemy at this compound. I want another guy tasked to watch where my friendlies are. I want someone else scanning the route where my friendlies are. I want someone else scanning the route between us and the enemy. And then I'm coordinating airstrikes at the same time while I still have my M4 and I'm still a part of the team. And I'm communicating real time with that team leader who's keeping track of where the guys are. I'm getting feeds. You know, guys are saying, hey, I'm getting shot at. Okay. So then I'm referencing my brain. All right. Who just called me? Where are they at on the battlefield? Where do they think the enemy is shooting from? And I balance

and coordinate that all real time, you know, in sometimes really bad situations. So, you know, we're in the dirt too, or even shot at too. And you're doing that mental, you know, gymnastics to, to keep track of that whole battlefield and coordinate all those things at the same time. So when that goes down, like that job is absolutely vital. You know, a lot of our write-ups, you know, come up to like, you know, repeatedly exposing himself to danger, to get situational awareness on where the enemy is. And just like, you know, incredible valor of fighting their way through and helping our brothers break those ambushes and take, you know, take out the the enemy i think what's interesting too is like kind of over the years this entire branch and all the spec ops and all that stuff it's

evolved quite a bit absolutely like there used to be a lot more like head-to-head combat versus like now there's a lot more like technology and stuff involved like where do you see like the future of all this stuff kind of going now like i feel like i feel like a lot of people are just like oh man the military is probably like gonna be a bunch of remote control stuff kind of going now? Like, I feel like, I feel like a lot of people are just like, oh man, the military is probably like going to be a bunch of remote control stuff. Like how important is this position still going to be like in the upcoming years? And like, where, where is it going? Yeah.

Well, that's, I mean, it's interesting and it's, it's been really cool. Like I imagine everyone feels this way, but I mean, just the unprecedented changes that have happened in just the last few years. I mean, it's like dizzying how, how much tech is changing and how quickly it changes our tactics and procedures. Yeah, you guys have probably the stuff that we've never even heard of or seen of. So you guys got to be just the learning curve for all these things. You got to just be constantly on top of new technology. Yeah, so you have to be as the enemy and the U.S. gets more and more advanced with

very high tech, I mean, just insanely expensive technology doing just mind-blowing things, that balance and that competition is very high end, you know. So there's lots of money that's invested to make that next stealth fighter. And so, but the enemy is doing the same thing. And so you're, you're getting incremental, you know, changes just like, okay, that we're a little better here, a little better there. And then they do this and then we do that. And so we're recognizing that in that, like in that race for technology, that that human is, is absolutely still vital to all that. Because what we can do is, is, you know, it's kind of like with asymmetric threat, you know, so if they're going head to head all the way into this escalating thing, you can kind of come outside the box, sneak around and, and sucker punch,

you know, in different ways. And so that's, you know, humans, uh, all working together, you know, doing things that, that, you know, only, only we can do, you know, to, to work through those things. And how long have you been doing all this for? So I say I've been institutionalized for 19 years. So I, I went to the Air Force Academy, so that was four years of college. And then, you know, 15 years or yeah, doing this and straight into special operations. So, I mean, how's your morale from like year one to now? You still, still loving it? You still like getting new challenges that kind of excite you all the time absolutely yeah that's that's been one of the crazy things is like you know so i i had an opportunity to become a pilot in the air force and i have my helicopter pilot's license yeah nice yeah yeah um so i had that opportunity and i i

turned it down um because i i wanted you know it was a little cheesy but you know i said i wanted to lead men and not machines um and so and so like I, I wanted to be, uh, I wanted my, my body to be the machine. I wanted the, all the expertise, you know, things that I learned to make me the most capable individual human and to work with other brothers that, that want to do that same thing. That's what we all wanted to do too. Like when we're kids, you know? And still, I still, that's like the pride. The only thing I ever regret in my whole life was like, man, I really wish I did like one contract of some spec like some spec op stuff it looks so fun yeah and all my friends who did it they're all just like oh it's the greatest time of my life and

all these things and yeah i'm like well i hope the stuff that i did was good enough yeah i did some cool stuff but like it is one thing i'm always like man i wish i did that it looks so fun yeah yeah i mean i had those like i. I was really fortunate to have some awesome tactical experiences early on in my career. And as I gave up that pilot's job, I'm like, man, maybe I have a shelf life as an officer. There's only a certain amount of time that I can be tactical. And then I'm going to get farmed off to an office and be an admin guy and things like that. And so I feared that a little bit. But I was like, you know, I kind of encouraged myself. like, oh, I'll get the experience. I'll get the

t-shirt. And then when I'm ready to settle down and have a family, I'll be able to do these things. And I kind of was like, man, I really hope that's how it works out, you know? And it was crazy because like, you know, after my, after my first appointment, like I was still just hungry. Like, I was like, man, I need, I didn't get enough bad guys. Like I need to go out and do it again and prove myself. And I didn't quite get that chance. And so I got to do it again and again. And, you know, by that third time, I was like, man, this is incredible. Like literally like I, I didn't living a video game. I mean, just like you have these surreal moments where you're like, this is really happening.

Like I'm actually, I'm not watching this. Like this is occurring real time. You know, you're, you're in a helicopter assault force with you know uh nine different aircraft hundreds of of fellow bubba's you know partner nation forces and you've got camaraderie is very rare too absolutely yeah and we lose that as we get older sometimes we do yeah i think having a long career that would be nice to have that brother that brotherhood the whole time be kind of really cool yeah yeah and i mean just like you you know, as you're going on that raid, you're just seeing through your night vision goggles,

and you're watching, and you see the lights, you know, the compounds nearby, and you get close, and you're getting, you know, real time, the aircraft are telling you how many bad guys are on the spot, what kind of vehicles, you know, what kind of things you're getting into, and you're locking and loading, you're getting everything prepped. And then you run off the helo, and then, you know, flashbangs and, you know, grenades, and, I mean, like, you're punching through doors and, you know everything prepped. Yeah, for sure. And then you run off the helo and then flashbangs and grenades. And I mean, you're punching through doors and chasing guys through fields.

And I mean, it's just insane. You're like, this is happening. Yeah, that's amazing. You're like, quick, act cool. Act like you've been here before. It's no big deal. Whatever. You can't really tell anybody about that

when you get back. You're like a normal person. You're like, you don't get it. Yeah. You try, but we're trying right now that's right yeah i think what's important to know is a lot of people are they think of all the spec ops communities they think about war right now they think about the military and they immediately just think of iraq iran all that like that middle east stuff but let's tell them we don't have to go too much detail i don't

know how much you're allowed to but like what about all the other stuff going on like there's i mean there's like venezuela right there's like africa different different things going on different parts of the world so it's not like everyone's going to get sent to the sand like you might get to go somewhere else and do some other cool shit or i mean and there's a lot more going on than people realize yeah correct yeah so that's that's one of the cool things about Air Force Special Operations is because we, we seamlessly integrate with all the other forces, the other, the other branches usually are geographically focused. So they will, you know, they know that every time they're going to go back to generally the same place. So depending on which group you go to, like you may not have an opportunity to go, you know, one place or another,

you'll always be stuck in that one location, be it, you know, Latin America or the Pacific or Africa. Whereas our guys, literally every deployment, you could go to a different place. Oh, that's cool. So, and then, yeah, like so my family, you know, my dad, you know, it's like, oh, I'm so glad this war is turning down. Maybe it'll be over before you get there. I'm like, yeah, peace is good. But don't worry, dad, I will always be somewhere. There is always a need for American military presence. As long as we have interests across the world, political interests,

often that will require the military to participate. And that's not kinetic. That's not dropping bombs all the time. A lot of times that's working with partner nations to help, you know, because we recognize when there is chaos in a government or a lack of rule, then that allows thugs, you know, to build their criminal empires and to oppress their people. And so that's something we miss a bit. We don't quite always see in the public, you know, because our job is to be a shield, you know, to cover, you know, to prevent our people back home to face these evil and this is atrocities. And so sometimes, like, we recognize, you know, you'd hear guys talk about combat and

killing and doing their job, and you miss the context of like well the reason why i'm doing that one is because the government's you know u.s sent me to do it but the other is like there's evil taking place like there are people doing horrible things to their own clansmen their own brothers yeah just because they can because they're powerful thugs and it's never in the news right and i just think like for anyone who's ever you know thinking about being special ops like it's not just, it's just not the Middle East. Like there's a lot of other stuff going on. Yeah.

I've been, I've been all over the Pacific. I've been all over Latin South America. And Africa was my last, my last appointment. What was your favorite one that you've been on? That's a tough one. They get the people what they want. They want to hear the cool shit. Yeah.

My favorite place to live was Okinawa, Japan. So it's a small island several hours south of mainland Japan. So you live in a tropical paradise. You scuba dive and you've seen more fish in your entire life combined in that one minute. It's just a teaming with life. People are really nice, I assume. Incredible people, yeah. Really, really sweet.

They love children. It's like they're all grandmas to your kids you know they just want to love on them um so that one was really cool uh and then you know i've seen some just insane things i went through the brazilian jungle warfare school um so i was like oh wow that's swimming in the amazon you know you know, uh, had with buddy harnesses to the rest of my team, you know, uh, pulling a raft, uh, that we had made from, you know, trees that we had, you know, cut down to carry all of our equipment to do this long, you know, infiltration mission, just insanity. I mean, like super rare opportunity and just like, man, this is crazy. I'm going to quit my job right now. Well, we have opportunities for you. Yeah, it's no problem.

I'm old. You've come to the right place. Oh, you're good. Up till 39. Uh, you're welcome to join us. What is your like most memorable experience right now in all of these institutionalized years? Oh man, there's, it's, it's a tough question. Um, I'll just go with the first one. You can go like two or three even like, well, like if it was over today and you retired, what's the highlights of the greatest hits? Yeah. So probably like the single most amazing thing I've ever seen. I was in Marine Corps Combat Dive School. And that's like our toughest.

The preparation for that course is the toughest thing that we go through. You beat the shit out of you under the water and you got to put all your stuff back on. Absolutely. I've seen that. Yeah. Destroy you underwater and just, you know, teach you to be confident. You just be calm. You're like, I don't have any air and that's okay. Like I know how long before my body will pass out and I just follow the things and go through the procedures. So preparing for that was, you know, incredibly grueling and you were just focused on just making that cut,

like fighting through that stuff. I've heard that's the absolute hardest thing to do in every branch is getting that dive training. Yeah. Yeah. Because I've heard it's terrifying as they're fucking you up. Absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah. It takes, takes a lot to, to build that mental fortitude to, to be able to, um, endure without air, you know, like that's a pretty basic human requirement. So, um, yeah, so it was, you know, like that's a pretty basic human requirement. So, um, yeah, so it was, you know, I focused all just on getting through that horrible, you know, composition and all those tests and then you get in the water. So it was our first night dive and we were using a dragger rebreather system. So it's a closed circuit system that doesn't release any bubbles so that you can be under the water clandestinely and the enemy who has no idea

you're down there. And so you go more shallow, but it's a chemical system. So it's actually this chemical process is rebreathing, scrubbing your oxygen, you know, like it's a tiny tank, but it allows, you know, with that tiny tank, you can go hours underwater. And so that is, so if you go too deep, that mix of chemicals can become toxic. So you can die if you go too deep, you know,

if you're not monitoring exactly where you are in the water. So lots of intense training going to it. And now it's our first mission at night. So you're tied up with another buddy. You got a buddy line between you and one other diver, and then you submerge. And this is the, you know, uh, dead of night. So low, you know, no illumination anywhere. And so he and I submerge and we go, you know, down to the right depth. And then we, you know you're so disoriented you know it's the first time you have no idea really where you're going what's going on all you have is like a little compass board little glow-in-the-dark compass board you can't see anything you can't see anything except this is our first time so we go down and all of a sudden i see these brilliant little flecks of

light that are covering every aspect of my body. So like every, you know, I can now see, and it's like, it's straight out of matrix vision, Neo vision when he sees everything. So now it's like this, they're phosphorescent little tiny creatures, but we, we had no idea it was going to be there. And these things, I mean, millions of these tiny little creatures, as you move in the water, you like blight up and it's like the most brilliant and beautiful light show in the world. But since I had no idea what it was, I thought I was, I thought I had a toxic, you know, mix. I thought I was crazy. I thought I was dead. I'm like, so I just died. And this is some trippy heaven or, or I'm crazy, you know, like, and so like, you know, you're

freaking, but you can't talk, you know, you're in water and you're like, you know, you know, so all that training of like, don't freak out. So you're, you're trying to but you can't talk, you know, you're in water and you're like, you know, you know, so all that training of like, don't freak out. So you're, you're trying to suppress your brain, just screaming like, Oh my gosh, what's wrong? And then you really, you look at your buddy and your buddies, you know, like, you know, underwater giving signals and stuff from like, okay, well I guess he's not dead either. So, uh, let's just do our job and swim, you know, just beautiful. You know?

And I always say like, I've been in all kinds of romantic situations with, with a lot of dudes. Yeah. You know, it's always like, man, Oh, I wish I could tell my wife about this because this is crazy. But I was just another bro, you know, enjoying the romance. Damn, that's a great moment right there. All right. So now that you've had, like, all this experience and stuff like that, like, what do you see for yourself when you're done?

Or will you ever be done? Yeah. Well, eventually they make you be done. It's like, you know, 30 is a very long career. 20 is, you know, that's a full retirement. So, you know, I've just said, man, I'm still having fun. And they're still letting me lead and influence in positive ways. Yeah.

So, like, I wasn't sure about what I was going to do after. There's lots of opportunities. But, like, the cool thing, you know, like, so, you know, I enjoyed that tactical, tactical opportunities, but then after a certain point, I'm like, I'm ready to start influencing at the next level. Um, I want to make sure, you know, like, this is incredible. I loved it. Coolest video game ever. Uh, but now I want to take care of my guys. I want to make sure that they're fighting in the right places, that they have the right tactics and training. They have the right equipment, um, that we're, that we're doing the right things that we're,

that our, our theater strategic campaign plan is right. You know, it's just like not, not anything I originally thought of sounded really cool. Yeah. But you grow over time. You recognize like,

man, you know, our guys can be the most incredible tacticians. They can be the most lethal force ever. But if we don't put them in the right spot um or make sure that they're fighting in the right ways like then it doesn't do any good you know so just recognizing that that i can influence that at that next level so i've kind of transitioned just like in this job you know the recruiting aspect um it's been a huge challenge it's been a very challenging system

basically we haven't been able to get enough of the right quality of the right quantity of guys. Um, so we had to re recreate the system. So our highest ranking general said, Hey, you need to do something different, figure this out, do a new way. Don't just keep repeating the same old way. So we created a whole new squadron designed just to focus on bringing in, you know, special warfare operators. Um, so we revamped everything. And so like that challenge has been so, um, rewarding, so difficult, uh, so, so horrible, you know, like to try and like fight against a system that has been in place and trying their best and works for 155 other jobs in the air force, but for special operations, it doesn't work that way. Um, you can't mass produce folks. You've got

to, um, you've got to give them every opportunity. You got to find the right people and then give them every opportunity to succeed. And it's just a totally different thing so creating recreating the wheel kind of like that that was that was awesome so i love i've grown into these really complicated problem sets and that's like that's one thing you know so you will get we get all kinds of crazy skills and certifications and things like that but like that it's like the the underspoken ability to attack a problem with looking at every resource there is leaking outside the box and just saying like, Hey, how can I pull all of these divergent resources together to attack a really important

problem and forget about bureaucracy, forget about rank and structure. Just look at like, how can we get together and fix this? And so like, that's, that's what I'm excited about. Like, that's what I love now. I still like to shoot and jump out airplanes and I still get to do that. But the really cool part is, is to be able to look at those complex problems and bring all those things together to try and solve it. So I talked to Anders, who's part of Barbell Shrugged and he was telling me like, he's like, man, you know what I didn't realize? Like when he said he talked to you was that our population is getting more and more out of shape yeah and it's getting harder to get you know this really small percent of the world who already joins the military

and then who already joins the air force and then who already is available to go to the spec ops and like this percentage is getting smaller and smaller and smaller yeah um i mean man like how many people do come in the door like 10 years ago versus now? Is it less people are even applying or less people are being able to make it? So that's been really one really cool stat, you know, as folks are like, what are you doing? You're changing everything up. I don't know if it's working.

We actually brought a thousand less people into the special operations, basic training and everything, a thousand less people into the special operations, uh, basic training and everything, a thousand less and graduated 150 more. So when we're focused on the right people, when we start doing outreach, things like this to your, you know, super tough, super motivated, disciplined crowd, letting them understand that there's, there's this better, there's an option out there to do this stuff. Um, so precision targeting, you know, finding the right folks, letting them know exactly what they're getting into and then giving him every opportunity to succeed. So in the past, it would just be like, Hey, are you minimally qualified? Good to go, go face the meat grinder. Good luck. You know? And, and so they still face the crucible. Um, but we just give them every tool

possible to, to, to fight that. Um, and then they still have to face it, but that's, so by changing up the model, changing up how, how we find folks, how we prepare them, um, that they're make sure they're, they're informed exactly what they're getting into and that they're why we help develop that. Why it's not just like, oh, my mom told me I couldn't join the Marines. You know, like, it's like, this has to be an overarching, like, this has to be the story of your life, like everything in you. the reason why you chose powerlifting, the reason why you chose those sports, the reason why you gravitated to wrestling and all these things. It was because you were looking for that incredible challenge at every step in your life. And then now I've only – all I can do is show you the path. Like, hey, man, you can do incredible things that literally impact the world.

And you can become the baddest ass dude in the meantime millions of dollars of you know uh training technology invested in you and and you can do something like the the most powerful thing you can do in your life and then retire in 20 years and then go challenge the world in other ways you know but regardless i think the the best thing that they're getting out of the entire thing is a completely new mindset that not many people have that's right. Right? So, I mean, let's say even if they went in for a four- or six-year contract that we were talking about earlier,

is when you get out, you are a completely different human than the person who did not go in. Absolutely. And there's very few of us out here who get to even feel what that mindset feels like, like unless you're a professional athlete or you're with a group of guys, like in some sort of other type of job or something like that, that was stressful. You don't really get that mindset. And I feel like that's like what we really need these days is, I mean,

you need to believe that you can do shit or you're never going to do anything great. And then you're never going to be happy really either. Like a lot of us, especially for guys, I feel like you need to have that challenge. You need to have like some camaraderie and you need to have a mindset that makes you feel like you can do anything.

And I think that's really, really important. Yeah. And I think that when you guys offer that, that no matter what, when they get out, they're going to be okay. Yeah. Like how many, I don't know any, I've never met a guy who was in the military and he's like crying the blues. And I was like, oh, what did you do? And he's like, I was an Air Force PJ. Yeah.

It's like, no, it's like he was like maybe like a regular infantry guy or something like that. But like these guys, like these guys excel in life no matter what. Yeah. And you figure it out. Even if you're having a bad day, like you just figure out how to not have a bad day. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I was kind of asking you like, what would you want to do like in the future?

Like with your new mindset that you have now, like I can't imagine what you think that you can do now. Yeah. Right. I mean, it's like anything. Like you probably think of anything and you can do it for sure. Yeah. I mean, you just want it to be important. You recognize that the skills that you build and the things that you have, like that's not for you.

You know, like it's for a greater purpose. And so I think like finding, you know, recognizing that all like with I mean, with a good team, like everyone understands in a really high functioning team. You understand that every resource and capability and insight and perspective you have is all for the good of the team to, to accomplish something. And so like it ha it would have to be something powerful and important, you know, because otherwise what's the point, you know, like it's, it's not, it's not just money. It's not just street cred or whatever it is. Like, it's gotta be, I gotta use all those skills to do something amazing, you know, to make it worth it. Yeah, for sure. So of all these places that you've been stationed at, uh, where have you been stationed in America? Um, so I've been in, so you have a family,

you said, correct? Yeah. And where are they at? Uh, right now we're in San Antonio, Texas. Yeah. So, uh, I, you know, I went to school in air or Colorado Springs, Colorado. Then I started training in Herbert Field, Florida in the Panhandle. Then my first assignment was in North Carolina. Then I went – All beach towns so far. Yeah. Doesn't sound bad. I went to Miami.

So I lived in Miami for a few years. Then I went to Okinawa, Japan, a tropical paradise. Then I came back and I went to Kansas. So that was – Okay. All right. Yeah. back and I went to Kansas. So that was, okay. Yeah. That was close to my family. So that was cool. You know, like where my hometown was. And then I went to Seattle area and then now in Texas. Cool. So those are all great stations. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's very important when it comes to choosing a branch and choosing, choosing a job is like, where am I going to be? I think like that's really, really important.

Yeah. So, okay. So we talked a lot about PDAs because that's what I know the most about. I had another guy in my gym. He was a CCT guy. Nice. What is it? So you guys have more than one type of spec ops community, right? So what do we have exactly? Yeah. So because we've kind of grown as separate units and over the combat over the last 15 years, we have like coalesced more into like a joint tribe. But we're still kind of tribal as we work through those things. And they all fit different pieces. So in the past, I would kind of – we'd focus in on like different jobs. But I think more now kind of our approach is just to let you recognize like, hey, special – Air Force special warfare is an umbrella of doing badass things in the Air Force that are ground-focused and air integration-focused. So more we talk about, like, the overall capabilities, and then all these different jobs really contribute to those capabilities.

And so it's, you know, so it's like our missions are strike, access, and recovery. So strike fulfilled by the combat controllers and terminal air control party tac peas um the strike mission primarily by those guys that's our ability to take out our enemies anywhere in the world um so that's either like the from kicking in a door with your your you know green beret or seal brothers um or then controlling close air support or precision strike you know long range this is all cCT guys? CCT and TACP. Okay. Yep.

And so that's the strike mission. The access mission, our ability to get anywhere in the world and do anything, you know, project military power. So that could be during the beginning of a war when we take over an enemy airfield and our guys jump in with rangers and other forces. Then we start, we control the airfield and then that's where we launch all of our forces off

to go do other things. Um, so that mission is also, it's really important in Africa right now because, you know, we know the golden hour of, of, uh, giving medical care to people. Um, when our bases are, you know, isolated, so we can actually project that military power. We can take over a random dirt strip and set that up as a, as a mobile So we literally can bring surgeons, highly advanced surgeons, to bear just close enough so that they can provide that high care and take care of our guys anywhere in the world. Or that can be disaster relief. So our guys were the first ones on the ground, our whole team,

be it SEER, helping us when we went into the Haiti earthquake. Um, so when that disaster struck, our guys were the first ones on the ground, combat controllers, pararescuemen controlling all the air traffic, um, so that we could bring in hundreds and thousands of airplanes and evacuate all those folks. Um, and the last one is a recovery mission. Um, so that's, that could be an enemy or it could be a pilot that shot down deep behind enemy lines or it could be a lost hiker in Alaska with our team all working together to project that power, to find that guy and bring him back to safety. Okay, so let's say I want to be a recovery guy and I go to a recruiter.

What am I saying? Do I want to be Air Force Spec Ops recovery or do I want to be – is it all just like Spec Ops and then you figure it out as you go through? Yeah. So, so we recognized, um, we want to make that one door, the first door. Uh, so the special warfare, you say, Hey, I want to be special warfare. And then you work with our guys and our retired guys who did my job act as developers and our recruiters like help you find out like, okay, really what, like what are you, what's your, what are you passionate about? What's your? What do you most want to do?

Because sometimes we'll find guys who are like, oh, they saw that one YouTube video of Job X. So sometimes it's like, oh, I want to be a PJ. I want to save lives. And they're like, okay, are you cool with medical? Like, no, I throw up at the sight of blood. They're like, all right, bro, you can save lives, but maybe just not digging in somebody's guts and taking care of that stuff. So we just bring them into the special warfare and then we allow the individual to help. We help them with that path, figure out which branch it is. And we're even working to a point where you can even

go all the way through basic training, all the way through the preparatory course, all the way through assessment and selection before you even have to decide which path you want to take. So that way, instead of just like, you know, going down one fork, you can just recognize like, Hey man, this air force has a lot of options and really crazy stuff that you can do. And just figuring like, you know, which, which personality you best fit, um, which skillset you best have that really would make you good at, um, and then the other one we haven't mentioned is special reconnaissance.

Okay. Um, so that's, that's a new mission that, um, I mean, that's, it's not even a year old right now. Oh, wow. Um, and so that's like a it's a special reconnaissance troop um so that they provide that environmental reconnaissance um to the teams for our special tactics teams this would be similar to like a marine recon unit similar yeah um uh and they have you know weather capability weather forecasting capability

um scouting abilities they run uh drones um and then they also have that sniper you know reconnaissance skill set so that that's that's another one a lot of a lot of guys are really excited about wow man it's so crazy to know that all that exists and you just don't ever hear about it yeah that is that has to be hard as on the recruiting side what else are you guys doing for recruiting capabilities right now yeah so like I said the the big ones just are our focused recruiters that that's literally their only job is to focus on these six jobs. So so they all they know exactly what to tell you about, give you that education, give you direct comms with people that did the job. So we also recruit for explosive ordnance disposal, EOD technicians. So those guys that can defuse bombs. Uh, can, Oh no. What are some of the things that you guys are doing right now to try to find these people that's at a deficit at the moment? Yeah. Um, so, you know, partnering, uh, so obviously, uh, you know, hanging out here and talking to you is a lot of bad-ass people on this radio for sure. Yeah. Uh, so that's one of the big ones, you know, like, uh, partnerships

with, you know, Spartan races, um, just getting after getting out to the, to the community where we find people that are, you know are driven, disciplined, um, sacrifice lesser things to achieve greater goals. Um, and just getting that word out to them. What are some of the benefits like of becoming one of these, one of these, one of these guys in the spec ops? I just totally thrashed that you're becoming a special ops in the airport. So let's say I sign up, right? Obviously I i'm gonna get my school paid for is there any sort of like bonuses that they give out is there any what are the other things like for me just on my own account like from what i've talked to with you already and stuff that i've looked into but when i wanted to sign up was what i liked a lot about the air force was the corman

stuff and i thought that you know maybe when i got out i'd want to be like a physician assistant or something and then you know in the in that field of medical where I was going to have a good job. Yeah. So I thought that was really, really cool. In the SEALs, they have a corpsman position as well. It's not the same. And you guys do, you have a lot more hands on hours, I think, with all that type of stuff, especially rescue and all these injuries and all these things, which I thought was cool. Yep. all these things which i thought was cool yep um and i just feel like on on contracts i mean

besides seals i feel like a lot of people just really really respect the air force and the knowledge and you guys have i think you require a higher asvab score than all the other branches too huh yeah so that shows that you're a smart guy yeah okay so so now i have that um go ahead and give me all the benefits that you get with signing up. And then let's just say I did four years. What it would give me on my way out. Yeah. So because we have six different jobs that we're talking about, there's different – one job has more than others or difference. So I'll kind of just talk about all of them.

So our combat controllers, they go through air traffic control school. So you're a certified air traffic controller. A lot of the folks have opportunities to work in radar or work in towers. And those guys make really good money. Yeah. Yeah, and so that's a really good skill set. I mean, it's highly technical, highly advanced to be able to manage all those things. So they'll work their tower certification. So that's one just very concrete, good example of a skill that we have here and is directly applicable to the civilian sector.

The security clearance is actually a really big one. I didn't really realize that, but the government has to invest a lot of money just to give you a security clearance, big investigation, things like that. So all of our guys have the ability to hold a very high, uh, high security clearance. Um, so that gives them, it gives them opportunities to work, you know, any government job, just the fact that you, uh, the government has vetted you as a trustworthy source to handle, you know, secrets and, uh, important classified information. Oh, that's kind of cool. Yeah. Um, the, like from the, the, uh, EOD explosive ordnance disposal, uh, a lot of those folks have the opportunity to work as private security details for the president. So they can work and either go on for FBI or other agencies to provide that.

I actually just met a guy out on a bomb range that he had done lots of work with EUDs. So continued opportunities there. The big one, the education. So I know I'm, I'm spoiled to even say it, but like, I'm sick of education in the air force. I was like, please stop training me. Just let me do my, let me do my thing. But like, you know, I, so I got a four year, uh, highly sought after, uh, college career or college, uh, scholarship. Um, then I went on, I have a master's degree and then I have an opportunity for another master's degree. Uh, and so I, I could have done that in correspondence and then I actually, the,

the military invested a whole year in me just to learn. So I, I took a break from, you know, being on the front lines and, and just learned for a whole year. Uh, and then I could even do that again at my next rank as well. So two master's degrees, bachelor's degree, uh, and then technical certifications all along the way. Like there's a lot of opportunity. It's like 200 grand with the school right there. Yeah. You you're, you're an idiot if you don't get that, if you don't use those opportunities. And that's not even like the GI bill that you can transfer your family after the first. So there's the air force invest a lot of money in making you the smartest, you know, most capable human they can imagine. And that's not even like, you know, the technical aspects of the job and, you know, most capable human they can imagine. And that's not even like, you know, the technical aspects of the job and, you know, reconnaissance and all advanced paramedic, uh, things as well.

Okay. So, um, wait a minute, what was I going to say when they sign up? Is there, is there any bonuses right now? Yes, there is a bonus. What is it? Yeah, we just streamlined it. So it's, um, $17,000, uh, for, for joining any one of our six jobs. Okay. And then once they are in, what is the chances of them, what are the chances of them finishing a degree in like a four to, like, so how much, what is it, 120 credits when you get it for a four-year degree? I think it's 120 credits.

How many credits can you feasibly get in like a four to six year contract? Cause I know you have a lot of other stuff going on too. Yeah. Um, totally. I mean, it just depends on you, like how much you want to do.

So, I mean, I had a newborn and a wife and, and a full-time job and I still got my master's, you know, in a short amount of time. Okay. Um,

so it's, uh, yeah. And then some of the, some of the stuff directly applies. So the, the the the course you take in the military gives you credits for for some of your jobs after or for for those degrees associates degrees things like that i'm trying to like answer the question for someone who might be

like all right well i want to go to school i don't really want to pay for it yeah i i'm thinking about the military stuff like if i go in military, am I putting my education on hold or am I going to get my education paid for after? So if you're saying I can get a decent amount of it done during, that's a pretty good plus. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it also depends on your job, you know, like how busy you are and what things you're going to do and just how much you want it. That's one thing we kind of recognize is like the people that succeed, especially specifically in our jobs, they're more often they are 21 years plus and then one to two years of college experience. So folks that come and say, you know, I hate they, you know, their parents made them go to college because that was what you did next.

And then they just weren't ready for it or they weren't. They're like, man, I want to do something in life. I'm sick of learning right now. Yeah. So sometimes they take that break, you know, and they get some of that more life experience. Then you're able to come back to it and say like, man, I know exactly what I want. Like, I'm not just going to underwater basket weaving major, you know, like I want this to apply directly to what I need, not just to check the block, but cause I know this is going to help me succeed. So, um, yeah, it's all the above.

So there's, you can work hard, uh, extra stuff while you're there. Some of the stuff directly transfers. And then also some is just the, the, uh, the benefits that you get to take after the fact. Some, some States to offer, um, really good in residence bonuses and stuff. If you're a veteran in Texas, like for, for one, they give you really good deals and then even your family as well. Um, you know, higher high scholarships and things like that. Is it hard to be, to go in first, first shot as an officer? Uh, or is it not even an option? Well, so, um, just for the people who are like done with school and they still don't know what they want to do. And maybe they think about as an officer route. Yeah. So, um, there's, there's options. And actually we, we, we created a program so that someone doesn't have to go to through the, uh, reserve officer training, the ROTC program doesn't

have to do that in college. Could literally, literally yourself right now could say, hey, I want to do this. So the week it's basically sponsor you so that you have the opportunity to go to the tryout to do one of these special tactics officer or combat rescue officer jobs. And you can go through the phase, go through the week long, you know, application process, you know, get your guts kicked in for a week straight operational psychologist looking at you dissecting you and, and senior leadership, your teamwork capabilities, and then you can get selected. So you can come straight in to to be an officer just straight from the street as a civilian with a degree. And then some people with degrees choose not to, they say,

I want to be enlisted. I want to be tactical only my whole career. And maybe I'll, maybe I'll, I'll do it later. And so there's lots of guys come in fully educated as it is, and then still say like, Hey, I just, I just want to fight. I don't know, fight as soon as possible. Um, so let me get down range. And so, and what, what are some of the other parameters right now? So you're saying that the last age is 38? 39. 39. Okay. And then the starting age is 17?

Yeah. Maybe 17. 18. 17, 18. Something like that. All right. Cool. So any other parameters that we need to talk about?

So just the education. I mean, you've got to take the ASVAB score. So that's an intelligence test across the board. I've taken it. Yeah. I don't remember my score, intelligence test, you know, across the board. I've taken it. Yeah. I don't remember my score, however. Yeah.

They have some tools that kind of help you out, um, through that as well. You know, if, if you're working through that, but that, that's one of the big determinants.

Um, and there's medical qualifications and stuff to get, you know, real, real technical and specific. Where can people look up some like really cool, like maybe videos or like archives or anything about like what you guys do? Yeah. Um, so we have, uh, I mean, so airforce.com, uh, is the quickest and then slash, uh, special

operations. Um, so that's our, our big funnel that it will give you, uh, and then can give you the, all our tags for our YouTube channels and our, our Facebook and Instagram. Um, and we've been building up like archives of, of all those data is all accumulated together cool videos of training and all that stuff yeah you guys have a big instagram account potentially okay cool is that just air force uh i i'm my guys will kill me for not being able to tell you this right now i'm sorry i have too much junk in my brain to keep track of but i can tell you that shortly after this or you can provide a link okay yeah i could definitely provide a link i know that then the navy has like navy then they have navy and then Navy seal SWCC and all these different

other ones. But I was just wondering if you guys had like anything specific that people could see cool videos and get all jazzed on. Yep. Yeah. So the airforce.com and then special operations, that first link, and I'll take you, that'll give you all the other handles. All right, cool. I'm really excited about this whole interview. It was really cool. I think so many people get excited about these. I had a, I've hadALs on before, and people love those stories. And I think with you underwater with all the little lights and stuff, people are going to get really jazzed on that stuff. Yeah.

Is there anything that we didn't really hit that you want to talk about in terms of what you guys are doing, what you guys are offering, kind of like the whole movement or trying to get some badass dudes? Yeah. So I think one of the maybe the questions I didn't fully answer was just, you know, like who, who can do this type of stuff? Like what kind of characteristics? That's good. That's good. Um, I think, you know, one of the, uh, one of it's just like, it's kind of like that, that crazy factor, like someone that is discontent in being comfortable. Um, so obviously a lot of the,

you know, you follow your followership, do that. Like you, we, uh, subject ourselves to pain for greater causes, for greater purposes, be that, you know, competing, you know, a bodybuilding meet or a powerlifting meet, like you sacrifice your comfort to create something, uh, better to either, to refine yourself, to make yourself tougher and make stronger. Like you are putting, you know, things behind to, to pursue something greater.

And so like that, that's the core, like it's gotta be, you gotta have that passion, that tenacity to want to be something more, to get better, to get stronger, to,

to have the discipline to, to pursue that, that, that cause. And then I think, you know, ultimately it's to, to achieve a greater good,

something above and beyond, you know, it's, it's the service of your country. It's the brotherhood, uh, that you want to, you want to come alongside it's because you want to do something great. Um, so it's, it's the discipline, the drive to want to fight through what the lesser things of your life to achieve something greater and have that greater, have an impact on the world, a positive, uh, impact on the world. a positive impact on the world. So that's like the big picture, kind of like the theoretical side of things. Sometimes people would say like, just being too dumb to quit. Yeah.

Because you see, I mean, like there's different, you know, stereotypes are like, ah, you know, all that, you know, just a chiseled, you know, brick house type of dude, you know, you never failed at anything. Sometimes that dude fails real quick, you know, like really early on. He's like, you know what, screw this. I don't want to get yelled at, you know, it's not worth it. Um, but it's that guy that that's just under that, the guy that has struggled and failed and fallen down and got up again. And people told him, Hey, you're not going to make it. Hey, you're not good enough. And he's like, screw you. Yeah, I am. All right. I'll show

you, you know, and just that the tenacity to just keep after it over and over again. So I call that too dumb to quit, but it's also like, it's, it's, it's that you're too focused to let any obstacle in your way to deter you from your greater goal. And so it's just like figuring what that greater goal is and pursuing it recklessly, you know, abandoning everything else is just to fight through whatever it takes to achieve that thing. So I think that that that's a big, long answer to like, what it takes to succeed. For sure. I've heard a million stories of people who are like, you think for sure they're going to make it and they don't make it.

Oh yeah. And then other people that you don't think you're going to make it. Yeah. Make it. Yeah. And that's the cool thing. Like you look at some of our, our, our guys that start this process and they're little pipsqueaks, you know, they're like, they're like dudes are like, how the heck did you

get here? You know? Yeah. And, and they fail the first time and the the second third time and they keep coming back and they keep fighting and they improve and like you watch their scores go over time and then you know like two years down the line this guy is going to be the hardest superman ever yeah you know you're like and like i know you're going to get there like it's just great like don't don't at all judge a book by cover you have no idea it's just like they didn't have the opportunities we gave

them the training and it was that heart, you know, that heart that, I mean, that's, that's the baseline. Like you, you can be, you know, physical specimen, but if your heart is not right, you're, you're going to fall by the wayside or you can be, you know, almost, you know, uh, a lesser fit dude, but you're, you just got that passion. You got that bug, you got that powerful why, and you'll, you'll, you'll get there. No, that's the cool thing now is we have the opportunity to give you those chances, give you those opportunities. Yeah, that's amazing.

And then just to be able to hear it on the podcast, which is great. I mean, I think when I went through all this stuff and I was trying to figure out where I wanted to go, what I wanted to do, there wasn't a lot of information out there at the time. Now there's a lot of information out there. They can really do a lot of research. Yeah. And I think it's great to have you on.

I'm so stoked to have you. Yeah, I appreciate it. Is there anything else you want to say before we get out of here? I know you've got the website, airforce.com. Is that what it is? Airforce.com. It's special operations. Special operations.

And then you can find them on YouTube, Instagram. We'll put that handle on there eventually. Yep. And then is there any other outlets that anybody should be taking a look at? So those are the big ones ones and they'll direct you. All right, cool. Yeah. And we'll keep the content fresh and relevant and just letting you guys daydream about what they want to be when they grow up. All right. Awesome. So if they have any other further questions, just see the nearest recruiter. Absolutely. All right. Awesome. Yeah.

Dude, thank you so much for being on. That was a great time. Yeah. Thank you. Love it. All right, guys, that was the show. I hope you loved it. It's such a rare opportunity to get to speak to somebody like that. So I'm really, really pumped on that show. Um, all I have to say right now is if you guys ever visit my website, Jim Ryan.com that's G Y M R Y a N.com. All of my real chalk listeners get 25% off just by typing in REALCHALK in all capital letters on all my programs. So the High Intensity Interval Bodybuilding, the CrossFit programs, the Sweat programs, and there's links on that website as well to connect you to the online app for Chalk Online. And you guys can sign up for any of the nutrition challenges that I have going on. The

Carb Cycle Challenge, for one, is a huge thing right now. And I also added in recently, if you guys haven't heard, I have a Facebook community group that once you sign up, you actually are part of that group for life. So you can ask questions for the rest of your life. And every Monday I'm in there at 4 p.m. Pacific Standard Time doing Q&As live. You guys can ask me whatever questions you want. And every time you sign up for one of those challenges, you guys get a free ebook as well. So a lot of stuff going on on the website. Again, that's G-Y-M-R-Y-A-N.com. And type in REALCHOC in all capital letters.

You guys get 25% off. Hope you guys enjoyed the show. I will see you next week.