Barbell Shrugged - The Truth About Fasted Cardio, Improving Your Second Pull in the Snatch, and Drills to Stop Muscling the Barbell in the Jerk w/ Anders Varner & Doug Larson  — Barbell Shrugged #360

Episode Date: December 1, 2018

This is a special episode, where Anders Varner and Doug Larson talk about learning patience in the second pull, how to push under the barbell in the jerk, does fasted cardio really work? Is the result of fasting just fewer calories? And more. Enjoy! - Doug and Anders ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Show notes at: http://www.shruggedcollective.com/bbs_lifting ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ► Subscribe to Barbell Shrugged's Channel Here ► Subscribe to Shrugged Collective's Channel Here http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Shrugged Collective is a network of fitness, health and performance shows that help people achieve their physical and mental health goals.  Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first Barbell Shrugged podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast. Find Shrugged Collective and their flagship show Barbell Shrugged here: SUBSCRIBE ON ITUNES ► http://bit.ly/ShruggedCollectiveiTunes WEBSITE ► https://www.ShruggedCollective.com INSTAGRAM ► https://instagram.com/shruggedcollective FACEBOOK ► https://facebook.com/barbellshruggedpodcast TWITTER ► http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged

Shrugged family, Anders Varner, hanging out with Doug Larson. We're hanging out also with Jen Widerstrom, right over here. She's chilling. We are at Strong New York. We're at Solace New York. All things Manhattan going down. This is a killer event. We're already two shows deep and this event hasn't even started.

Kenny Santucci's just massacring people here at Solace Group Class. Today's show, Saturday Shr shrugged we're really excited because we have this awesome shrug collective program of all 12 programs all the things and everything that happens we've got this awesome facebook group i get to go in there meet all the people do all the coaching and a lot of times there's a lot of questions on movements, Olympic lifting, whether people should work out fast or not. And a lot of this stuff takes way too long to actually get a real answer. And I don't like writing that much in Facebook groups.

I like writing in real life. So we filmed an entire podcast, Q&A style, of people in the program vault talking about Olympic weightlifting, a lot of drills, and also Ryan Fisher just grabbed my ass oh Hunter McIntyre just grabbed my ass we're this is live um and this is Q&A the we recorded this thinking we were going to get it out on Black Friday but we have so much good content that it just didn't work so ignore the coupon code at the end make sure you get over to shrugcollective.com forward slash vault if you would like to get in 12 programs

shredded gonna lose weight build muscle Olympic weightlifting mass gain challenge as well as the shrugs drink challenge for your general crossfit programming shrugcollective.com forward slash vault ignore the black friday code at the end but enjoy the show all right we're rocking welcome barbell shrugged i'm andrew varner hanging out with doug larson we are in the gloop lab breck and truce is home in pacific beach california hanging out with doug larson yeah what's going on dude you want to talk some weight lifting here for a little bit dude good to be here we got we got the backstage passes to the glute squad training the thursday night glute squad thefamous glute squad is in the house. Let's just say Breckin Traris knows what he's doing.

He earned the title, the glute guy, and the product. All of his black belts are here right now. Yes, all of the black belts are here. These are the black belts right now. The black belts are here. Enough said. Check it out on Instagram. Yeah. So we have the coolest group of all time here inside the Shred Collective,

Program Vault. And we've got a lot of questions to answer. So we're going to spend a whole hour here just walking through all of the members' questions, tons of weightlifting stuff, lots of just really good strength and conditioning topics in here that deserve way more than me just commenting on Facebook. There's only so much I can write because we got to take a little bit of a deeper dive into a lot of these things. And it's hard to answer questions on social media. It's like, God,

you ask a question like I want to sit there and just like explain all the details. But at the same time, like they don't want to read all the details. Like I don't want to type it. They don't want to read it. They just want like three sentences. But at the same time, they don't want to read all the details. I don't want to type it. They don't want to read it. They just want three sentences, but at the same time, three sentences doesn't cover it, but that's kind of what they want. So podcasting is really where it's at for answering a lot of these questions. If you wanted to troll me really hard, you'd ask a really basic question and then just be like, oh, really?

Why is that? And I'd be like, oh, no. Oh, really? Why do I need to do that? And then I'd have to spend four hours answering your question on a Facebook thread. And that wouldn't be good. So long form conversation. Way better way to talk about strength and conditioning. Ready to kick this thing off?

Do it. Mr. Oliver Lopez. Dude, you have been crushing it. Love watching all. I believe you are doing flight weight lifting. And I keep telling you to stand when you get to the end of your second pull and what is happening um mr larson we are he's getting the bar to his hips but instead of the bar staying in close to his body the bar is getting to his hips but swinging out and we have much more of a kettlebell swing action.

Not many people miss the bar behind them, but he misses behind himself all the time and it drives me crazy because if you're getting the bar high enough where you're missing behind you, the only real problem is that the bar is swinging out in front of you and you aren't really pulling yourself into a position to catch the bar. It's swinging out and you're using a lot of your low back to lift versus driving the floor away and using your legs. So I haven't seen this video yet. So he's bouncing the bar forward, but he's missing it behind him. Is that what you said?

His pull off the ground is actually really good, right? The knees track back. Weight distribution looks really good. It's literally from mid-thigh to hip, in which he just rushes the bar too fast. Instead of staying over it longer, creating that patience and driving the floor away, he gets to mid-thigh, and chest comes up, and the bar floats away from him, which then leads to this half moon shape, and it's really challenging to catch a barbell overhead. You can't even get your elbows high and outside in that position,

and this is kind of the big problem, especially when we start doing a lot of position work with him. So if you take him below the knee, below the knee looks much better than if he's taking it from the hip or the high hang because he has no ability to use his legs in the high hang, and it just turns into this kettlebell swing, basically, where the bar gets very far away from him, and he ends up missing behind him because there's nowhere to stop

when you have that moon-shaped arc to the barbell. Yeah. So what do you think you should do? Well, here's what I struggle with when we are talking online. As I keep telling him, I'm like, dude, use your legs more. Use your legs. And he literally writes back to me, I don't know what you mean. So here's what we're talking about when we say use your legs when you're lifting.

I want you to keep your chest over the bar. I'm going to be doing this. I put it on video. Your chest needs to stay over the bar as long as possible. And what that is going to do, you want to be able to keep that back angle when the bar gets to your hips. I don't want your chest leading, right? We want to be driving the ground straight or driving our feet straight through the ground so that barbell elevates and stays in close to our body versus a kettlebell swing. So if you think about the direction of your hips, if you are doing Olympic lifting properly, it's going to be a vertical hip drive versus a horizontal hip drive where the barbell is

going to be more of like a kettlebell swing and that is why you end up missing behind you. So if you look at just the bar path, in a kettlebell swing where the hips are moving more horizontal and the bar gets away from your body, in order for it to get over your head it's going to take more of a moon shaped arc. And in that moon shaped arc there is no way, well I shouldn't say there's no way, it's very challenging to stop the momentum of that barbell traveling behind you. So if we stay over the barbell longer we're able to get the bar to our hips

and drive straight away. That is going to allow us to get our elbows high and outside. We're using our legs to elevate the barbell. And instead of having to just randomly catch the barbell somewhere overhead, we're actually able to use that third pull to pull ourselves under the bar and into a nice catch position. And that that hopefully is what are some good drills that people can kind of work on tall snatches have you had some success with that that was the first thing i was thinking like i feel like in this case this is a top-down approach for me yeah so starting in the power position vertical torso knees slightly bent bar right right across the hips right on your belt line and then in that position, with light

weight of course, because you're not going to have a whole lot of hip drive, you know, starting at the very, very top of the movement, you know, you are just doing the very, very, very tail end of the movement. So the bar is touching your hips, you're essentially jumping by just getting a little bit of knee and hip extension, and pulling the bar straight up, so you're trying to work that more vertical bar path, and then as he gets used to that new bar path, doing just the end portion of it, then you can move to high hang and then above the knee, below the knee, and then eventually moving all the way to blocks

or all the way to the ground. Keeping the same mechanics the whole time. This is a really challenging position to coach because when you see the best people in the world and it looks like they have this triple extension and they're leaning back so far, you actually aren't getting there by raising your chest. You don't want to be lifting. As soon as you raise your chest in that jumping position, you're using your low back to lift

instead of driving the ground away. And if you think about that triple extension, you want to be driving the ground away. And if you think about that triple extension, you want to be driving the ground away as far as possible. And you're going to get that look that seems like your back is arched away from the barbell. But really, it's just standing up as tall as you possibly can. And that's what creates that sweet picture that everybody looks at. It's not throwing your chest in the air and getting the barbell out in front of you. It's much more drive the ground away and stand as tall as you can, and then the elbows come high and outside, and you can get into a nice catch position. Right. I think muscle snatches work pretty well in that situation as well because you are not going to bounce the bar away from you on a muscle snatch. It's going to go straight up, and you're going to catch it.

You can't do a lateral raise all the way over your head with a barbell at 95 pounds. You can do a nice muscle snatch and get those elbows high and outside and work on your turnover. Right. You can get a great first pull, a great transition, get to that power position with a little bit of momentum on the bar, but then your feet don't come off the ground. You don't jump. You don't land.

It's all arm mechanics at that point, elbows up and back, and then you're locking elbows out. And maybe do a little bit of a dip at the end if you want to, but whether you do the dip or not doesn't really matter. You're still training that more vertical bar path. You're going to get some fluctuation because you're going to have that kind of S curve to your barbell no matter what. It's not going to be purely vertical,

but doing the muscle snatch will help train that more vertical movement. Once you go back to regular snatching, you're going to get a little more deviation than you do when you're muscle snatching, but hopefully a lot less because you did your muscle snatches. Yeah. I also know anytime I see somebody missing snatches behind their head that they have a really tough bar path, you literally just cannot pull yourself under the bar when it gets that far out in front of you it's a swinging motion that you're bringing the bar over your head um i very very did you ever really miss snatches behind you ever no the only time i ever did that

was was a couple times in competition for the first lift of the day where i just got like a little excited and i was like fuck i gotta pull this as hard as i can but it was like not actually that heavy for me and i i'd throw it over my head and i was like fuck i never do that yeah i got i got way too excited i gotta calm down and so i put on put on a few kilos or maybe just go out at the same weight and and just pull a little more normal after i'm not so excited and and i'd always hit my second yeah like anytime anytime you see somebody missing somebody missing barbells behind them, you know that they have plenty of strength to get the bar over there. It's usually just a really bad line of action on the bar or bar path and most of the time they've got really horizontal hips versus vertical hips.

Yeah, a lot of other times where maybe they don't miss it behind in this case, but just people that have that big arc, I feel like they're not actually ever getting to do that full power position where the bar is actually across their hips. It's always hitting lower on their thighs or maybe even right above their knee. And then because it hits so low on their legs, it's going to kind of like by default bounce away from their body, starting further forward than it would if it was hitting them at the hips.

Like if you're in a power position, you bend your knees just a little bit, your knees are going to go forward. If the bar is hitting right above your knees, it's making body contact more forward than it would be if it was hitting you right on your hips. Inevitably, it's going to be out in front of you and you're going to miss the lift in front of you. The first pull I think is also a good place. If you are, and Oliver, you're not doing this but for people that struggle with their bar path if you're not on your midfoot and you're too far back on your heels in your start position that's also a really

good place to start to look because if you're too loaded on your back you're never actually going to get into a good jumping position where you can load your hamstrings and then drive straight up you start too far back and the only place to go is throwing your hips forward there's just no legs actually involved in that process yeah yeah the the start position is the most important piece like inevitably whenever i talk to anyone about lifting i always go okay well you're doing this thing wrong but let's go fix your start position if you can fix the start position then you can fix the first pull it's like I can you can fix each component along the way and then everything kind of falls in place But if you if you have a bad pole and you have a bad start position

Like you can't fix it like if you start in a really bad position like there's With heavy weight above 80% like you're not going to recover if you start in a bad spot Yeah, starting to heal heavy is just it's a losing battle Yeah, you do when you're dead lifting things like that where it's more of a vertical shin it's more of a hip dominant move but weightlifting we have to have an upright torso you got to be midfoot pretty much the whole time if you have longer limbs then you might even start like even further forward on your foot and kind of rock towards your heels that if you have really ideal weightlifting mechanics that might be excessive you don't need to do that but if you have if you're tall and you have really

long limbs then that makes a little more sense because it helps you clear your knees yeah there's no reason not to just slow this down and do some pulls and just really sometimes we jump into the full movements with olympic lifting way too quick it's not that oliver's form looks bad at all it actually looks really good in a lot of places. It's just teaching that patience create, you need so much body awareness to understand how long it takes to actually get the bar to your hips. Not only is it a leg thing, so it's easy to say like, more legs, stay over the bar more, but there's also a lot of lat engagement. If the bar is tracking away from your body, the only way to maintain balance

is to throw your hips through early and it might feel like the bar is getting to your hips because it bangs into your hips and you're like, I don't know what's going on. But if that bar is not able to stay in tight to your body in the first pull and the second pull, it's going to start drifting away and then your body is just chasing the bar versus actually controlling where it's at, using your lats to pull the bar in and using the muscles that you should be using. Is he jumping forward over the bar? Is he jumping backward? He jumps forward quite a bit.

Well, that might be a big part of the reason why he's missing it behind him. Generally, if the bar is bouncing forward, you're not going to miss it behind you, but if he's jumping forward too far, then that might be an issue. Yeah, there's a bunch of things going on but they're all very little things that's the um one of the for specifically his videos um it's it's a a leg thing and a patience thing and um as far as strength building in that area um when he works from the top down, everything looks really good. His power position looks good. It's literally like a patient getting it to mid-thigh and then staying over the bar, getting it to your hip, then the drive.

From mid-thigh to hip, it just gets super horizontal. That's an actual strength thing just as much as, like, a patience thing. Like, that's a really challenging position to be very strong in, just in that little four-inch, five-inch gap there. Yeah. I mean, my opinion, no matter who you are, whether you're super experienced or you're, unless you're, like, really, really experienced, maybe that doesn't apply to you, but if you're a beginner, intermediate,

or even like moderately advanced, like you shouldn't be missing lifts very often. You should be four full snatches, full clean and jerks. You should have a light enough weight on the bar where you pretty much know you can hit it like with 90% chance. Like you shouldn't miss very often. You miss like one, two, three, four in a row,

like you're doing something wrong. If you miss one, you change the weight or you or you go ah that was just kind of a bad pull and you try it again you get it no big deal but like if you're if you're consistently missing the same way something is wrong yeah like you need to be going light enough where you can do it to whatever your your technical ability is at the time but yeah but if you're missing the weight and just dropping on the ground over and over and over again all you're doing is training on how to do it wrong yeah like you should be perfect, crisp technique as best you can, getting coached along the way, and then use, you know, full front squats, back squats, deadlifts, et cetera,

to get stronger while you're learning the technical parts of the full movements. Yeah. Specifically for drills for him, I would recommend a lot of just getting, I mean, even if it's at 100% of snatch, but just doing some isometrics in those places because I don't think his body is comfortable getting to his hips and keeping that bar in tight. Like, I don't think his back is strong enough to hold the barbell there. Keep a good back angle. I don't think his legs are strong enough to maintain that

like kind of RDL type position before the explosion happens. So that's what ends up rushing, rushing and his chest comes up, lifting with his back and that horizontal hip. I think pauses are huge in a scenario like this. Like if you can lift and you can pause below the knee, mid thigh, power position, and then finish the lift. And then you can kind of play with when you're pausing you can you can just pause below the knee that way you know that you're not getting out of position kind of halfway through the movement you can pause you know one two three times like do a do three pauses and then two pauses and then one pause you know as as a set of three doing doing a triple like where it's a little different on each rep you know i think doing that having pauses where you're reinforcing good position you can kind of pause and just go am I in a good spot

if you have a coach there they can even be like oh nope butt down a little bit that's where you want to be right there and now now keep going go to the next phase and in that scenario you're very unlikely to bounce the bar way far away from you especially you know the first thing I said was start in the power position and just do you know tall cleans or tall snatches you know if you pull from the floor and then you pause in the power position and just do tall cleans or tall snatches. If you pull from the floor and then you pause in the power position, you're doing a full pull, but really you're doing a tall clean or a tall snatch. What's really tough about coaching specifically this position is that this is the hardest position to get to. It's super hard to be patient when you've got two inches to go and all you want to do is jump as hard as you can and throw the barbell over your head and PR

and slam the shit out of it. It's really challenging to make that extra four inches. And on top of that, you're basically in a full RDL at that point. Your hips are so far pushed back, you should be loading, loading, loading until the bar gets into your hips and then exploding versus when you're at mid-thigh and everybody thinks jump. Because actually, when you do enough reps, there's a lot of patience in there. You can feel how long it actually takes to get the bar to your hips.

Yeah, new people really struggle with keeping that first pull very long. Like, we tell people to cover as long as possible. Wait, wait, wait wait wait wait wait wait and jump like at the last possible second like once you get once you get more advanced and it becomes comfortable like you don't have to feel like you're waiting as long because it becomes normal but generally for beginners that they feel like they shouldn't be bent over for so long yeah and then you tell them to jump at the last second they kind of feel a little bit awkward but after they get the hang of it i feel like that's it really becomes really smooth because the bar actually hits high enough on your hips where you get good leverage if you don't wait

long on your first pull then you end up hitting mid thigh and it just doesn't really you don't get the leverage that you need to pull as much weight as you possibly can next one yeah you ready totally ready fasted cardio in the morning talk to me you had any experience in this fun stuff? Do you do fasted cardio in the morning? During show prep. What's your name? Ashley does. Plenty of fasted cardio in the morning for show prep. What's your experience with it?

I've never done a lot of it personally. Yeah, I need to eat something. I can't work out that early anyways. I'm not prepping for a show. Whoever's asking that question probably isn't either. They're probably just asking for general fitness. She's in a different situation than most people in our program for sure.

For most people, I don't think it's necessary at all. If you're just trying to become a normal healthy CrossFit athlete and you're not prepping for a show, you're not trying to be the absolute leanest you possibly can get, then fasted cardio really is not something you need to worry about. Most people need to just focus on eating high-quality food three, four, five times a day

and getting enough calories where they're able to put on muscle mass and stay relatively in the process where they have good, high-quality workouts. Fasted cardio for a lot of people is just going to mean a shitty workout. What do you think about lifting fasted in morning same i just don't there's like a window of nutrition that you're allowed to have in that time that i just don't train as well yeah for me i i don't eat many times as uh in a day so training fasted to me is just kind of like a regular part of life yeah and that like but i always eat midday and that's usually right before i go work out and it's it's really nice i have done morning workouts before though and i just

am drained and i don't have any energy whatsoever if i if i don't get some sort of nutrition in there yeah i want to have the highest quality workout possible like we're hanging out glute lab right now uh you know talking with talking with Brad, Brad Schoenfeld. Last time we talked to him, he was talking about the aggregate of all the research that has been done in the world of performance and muscle science. It basically says get enough protein and keep your calories below maintenance if you're trying to lose body fat, which most people that are asking about fasted cardio are trying to lose body fat. That's kind of assumed in this question. And so if you want to lose body fat, get enough protein,

keep your calories below maintenance. If you're doing fasted cardio, well, kind of by definition, that means that you didn't eat that morning. That's one way to get fewer calories is just delay eating. That's the whole concept of morning intermittent fasting. You're waiting until 10 a.m. to eat something. And so you had a few extra hours in the day where you didn't have extra calories and so so yeah will will it work at some level it certainly will like you're you're finding one way a very simple to follow

rule on how to get fewer calories throughout your day but i do think it's going to negatively affect your training and so it depends what you what your real focus is like if you're trying to be a performance athlete and train and perform at your best i don't think it's a great idea i don't if you're if you're a physique athlete and like you're trying to get as lean as possible then you know maybe it has some application but i actually think there's probably better ways to do it since you want to prioritize the quality of your training and you can you can decrease calories at other times of the day you want to get calories around training especially carbohydrates so i was gonna say don't you do you really buy into like the the peri workout before

during after like really heavy heavy nutrition or heavy carbohydrates and and loading up during those times yeah i think no i think like the research shows that that's that at that time your body will will nutrient will prioritize those nutrients for lifting, for your muscles. So if you eat a bunch of carbs immediately post-workout, and then someone else who just worked out doesn't eat a bunch of carbs, and then you actually measure how much blood glucose ends up going to muscle glycogen, the people that eat the carbs immediately post-workout versus waiting two hours and eating the same amount of carbs are going to have more of those calories,

more of those carbohydrates stored as muscle glycogen versus the person that waited. And so you're going to recover better with those carbohydrates if you get them right around your workout sometimes. So whether you eat them right before, have a drink during, or eat them right afterward, you're going to have a better nutrient partitioning effect because you're getting those carbohydrates right around your workout especially if you're talking about high intensity strength training yeah running intervals things that are more on the anaerobic side of things and less on the aerobic side yeah i wish i knew uh i assume he's doing shredded if this is part of the question and then it really gets into man you're already doing like i always i mean nutrition to me, if you think about it on just such a macro level, do you really feel like skipping one meal in the morning is going to make that much of a difference

on an entire day of total calories? You're probably going to make that up because you're going to be so hungry after the workout anyways that probably it's a zero-sum game. Just eat a little bit before, feel better, have a better workout, eat a lot after, and then throughout the day have smaller meals. At a population level, I think you're totally right. The research shows that if you skip your workout meal, your workout shake, then you're going to make up for those calories the rest of the day.

At an individual level, if you are like a super serious competitor and you already eat super clean all day long and all you want to do is like find one more small way that's easy to do where you can cut a few more calories. You know, if you're normally eating 300 calories in the morning, which is not a big meal at all, but that's all you need to like just drop a few more pounds, then cutting that meal out might be

a good option yeah i think it's a good option for a long period of time necessarily this is like you know right at the tail end of whatever your you know competition coming up is or you're trying to hit whatever weight you're trying to hit um but i used to do things like that you know cutting weight for mma because i would i would i would do things like fasted cardio in the morning or not eat until till 10 o'clock it was just one more way to get fewer calories, like, as I'm making an extreme cut. Yeah. And back then I was training mostly at, like, 6 p.m., 8 p.m. for MMA practice. And so, like, cutting some calories in the morning didn't really affect my training that much.

I get most of my carbohydrates right around whenever my training session was, which was almost always in the evenings. Have you been a morning workout person before ever? I mean, I have worked out in the morning, but, like, it's definitely not. No, like, consistently? No, no, no, no. I've almost always just kind of, you know, I went from high school to college to the rest of my life, and it was always, like, you train after school, you train after work.

It was always, like, 3, 4, 5, 6 p.m. Yeah. Morning just never really did it for me. Like like i never have as good of a workout yeah i when i was doing a lot of like uh bodybuilding stuff back in the day there was probably like a year-long period where i'd train at six in the morning and man it's just really really challenging to get motivated many mornings in a row to go and you know get stronger i mean even if you're doing the cardio like when you i think that the bodybuilding world like pushes the fasted cardio in the morning, but they're not like doing like high intensity interval training.

They're like walking on a treadmill just to get like a little buzz going in their body to start burning some calories and kickstart their day. It's not really for high intensity training at all or strength building. No. If you're doing low-intensity cardio, you can get away with not having any calories in the morning. Yeah, you're just walking on a treadmill. Most of them aren't running. They're 250 pounds of giganticness.

They're not running. They're definitely not doing the shredded program. Yeah. If you're doing five sets of 10 back squats and then and then a 20 minute metcon or whatever like as a crossfit as a crossfit athlete and you have no calories in you that morning like you woke up at 4 30 you're doing the 5 30 in the morning class but by the end of that class you're you're probably gonna feel like shit you're gonna be very tired you might be lightheaded like you're just not you're not going to perform that well anytime somebody would ask me this when i was running classes or

like in the crossfit space a lot more i would just like just even just get like an apple like something light just to like there is if you're really worried about losing weight it doesn't have to be fasted you just don't have to eat like a massive meal and drain yourself to to you can kickstart your body and kickstart your metabolism with something light like have a piece of fruit maybe a little protein shake on the way to the gym in the morning and you're gonna reach all your goals it's more about the long-term commitment to to the process than right skipping a single meal yeah i think it's a fallacy in a lot of ways like you're you're not thinking about the totality of your 24-hour day or youracy in a lot of ways like you're you're not thinking about the totality of your 24-hour day or your full week or your full month like you're thinking about like the time

that you're working out you're thinking about like that that 45 minute one hour 90 minute block yeah which is it's not a good it's not a good frame of reference for for your whole life like if you train you know five six days a week like you're only working out for a few hours out of that whole week but you have many more hours, you're only working out for a few hours out of that whole week, but you have many more hours where you're not working out. So keeping your protein high and your calories low throughout the whole day really is the game. What does that whole 24-hour span look like? Within that whole 24-hour span, if you have your protein high enough and you have your calories low enough and you've maximized the quality of your workout, I think that's going to, for the most part, give you the best results.

All that assuming you're tracking your weight. You're weighing it every day. You're probably graphing it. If you're going as serious as you want to go, you probably should be graphing your weight, which is really easy to do if you have an iPhone app, like the health app, the stock health app on your iPhone. You can just plug your weight in, and it timestamps it and automatically graphs it for you. If you're not doing that, you fucking totally should.

It's super super super easy yep uh and then and then just making sure they're eating super high quality through food the whole day like that's that's 90 percent of the game track your macros weigh and measure your food uh and then you know take your body fat percentage you can you can do the tape measure thing if that's a concern of yours where you can actually like get hip waist you know arm thigh measurements where you can really see like am i am i getting leaner but like my my thighs are roughly the same size my body fat percentage is going down i'm maintaining muscle mass you need dexa scans like this there's all these things that you need to do but fasted cardio is like it's a very small thing to focus on yeah which people they kind of like those small things

like they love it because they feel like it's like really pushing the needle over the edge and it's like... It's like they got the hack. Yeah. It's like, I got this thing. It's a big deal. Yeah. I would focus on the big things. Fasted cardio is tough. The bodybuilding world really, really made people believe that for a very long time and it just never went

away. Yeah. Well, so here, let me say one thing. You very well may, while doing fasted cardio burn a little more fat in your workout that i'm not even i'm not even necessarily saying that that isn't happening yeah that very well may be the case however if your workout isn't quite as intense as it was it would be would have been otherwise and and or you're not doing low intensity cardio like is the only thing that i would recommend doing fasted cardio with, right, you'll burn more fat during the workout,

but you'll burn more fat for, again, like 45 minutes. Yeah. You're not necessarily burning more fat the whole rest of the day. If you're doing high-intensity workouts, then you will burn a little more fat the entire day, which is one of the rationales for doing high-intensity interval training and Metcons and metabolic strength training and just lifting weights in general at a pace where you're doing tri-sets and super sets and things like that

where you don't have a big rest interval. You're getting a big stimulus, even though you're giving your muscles still a full three, four minutes of rest so you can work out with heavy weights. If you're looking at the whole day, then the fact that you might burn a little bit more fat during that 45 minute window that you're doing you know walking on the treadmill or whatever you're doing it doesn't really matter yeah it's you're you're winning you're winning the you know the tiny little fight small game yeah you're winning you're winning that one fight but you're not winning the

war that type of thing so you gotta you gotta focus on the big picture one of my favorite questions when we start getting into the eight accessory program so someone's going on vacation for 10 days and wants to hit a cycle to build on something looking for getting stronger and some conditioning pieces what programs would you like to see them combining together to kind of develop like a base so that knowing that they have to take 10 days off, even if we don't have to get into why they have to take 10 days off, but if they know they're going to be taking 10 days off, they're going to be traveling, probably food, probably some booze in the mix. How would you combine a couple of the accessory programs

into building just like a really good base of strength so that knowing when they come back they can get right back into training for one of the longer programs where you're saying while they are gone they're going to be no no leading up right before they leave so before i head off for a 10-day vacation i wanted to use one of the programs to do a quick mini cycle to get better would i be better off doing aerobic Monster, Anaerobic Assault, or Squat the House? Not looking to get shredded or make huge

gains, but looking to build something I can leverage when I get back to it in January. Currently doing Windler and Metcon or CrossFit a few times per week. Which is basically taking Anaerobic Assault and Squat the House and putting them together. They just want to do something... week, which is basically taking anaerobic assault and squat the

house and putting them together in a way. They just want to do something right for like the week or two. If you were about to take 10 days off and go on a family vacation knowing resources are going to be pretty limited, food is going to be pretty bad, booze is going to be pretty available, we'll call it. And you were just looking for, like, I need two of the accessory programs to throw together

just to lay a good foundation and feel good about myself going into a vacation. What is somebody going to be, how would you combine those programs together knowing that you have 10 days of just, it's not going to be pretty coming up? I'm over here kind of confused by the question a little bit because i think the answer is well just keep training normal and maybe i guess it's a goal

dependent question whether you do you know aerobic monster or squat the house like they're totally different totally different programs one you're just doing like a bunch of extra running and rowing and airdynes and the other one you're doing extra squatting and lunging and whatnot. Well, in comparison to the other, so you could go and do strongman for like the strength piece. Sure. You could do, man, draw a blank, like you could do three months of flight weightlifting at the beginning three mesos. They're asking about doing a full three months or they're?

Well, leading up to it. So they're looking to build a base, knowing that there's going to be 10 days off. So basically, if you could put two of those programs together, what is the most bang for your buck? Knowing that there's some unhealthiness coming up. Look, I'm reading the questions. You're the expert.

I'm so confused. Okay. In Doug Larson's brain, there's no reason to ever take 10 days off, nor are you going to be on a 10-day vacation, because when we go on vacation, that means we actually go to work together and we can talk on these microphones. Are you going on vacation, not working out? No, actually, I'm going to go hang out with my friends and work out all the time.

I don't know the full context here, but my opinion, you should just train like you always train. Maybe do a few extra sessions or don't take a day off or two, like, the week leading up to your vacation because you know you have the 10 days off. But just take your 10 days off and then fucking get back to it. It's kind of like the last question. It's like, don't worry too much about, like, the 45-minute window for the Fast and Carlyle. Just, like, don't worry too much about, like, the 10 days you took off. Train really fucking hard all the time.

And then when you take your 10 days off, you should go enjoy it. If you want to do a hotel workout or something like that while you're out, then there's nothing special you probably should be doing necessarily before you take your vacation. I agree. I don't think that you need to be doing anything over special, but I think that there is like I will never if you're going to just

do one of the programs in there, squat the house is probably a really good place to start. As far as getting the most bang for your buck, getting on a decent back squat program that isn't going to hurt you, start there. I'm assuming in this example that they're already doing one of the long term programs.

Are they already doing shrug strength challenge or muscle gain challenge? If they're already doing one of the long-term programs. Are they already doing Strug Strength Challenge or Muscle Game Challenge? If they're already doing that, then they don't need to add anything in necessarily. There's no current information about what program they've been doing leading up to this. Cool. Then my original answer stands. You should just train really fucking hard all the time. Then when you go on vacation, you should enjoy it and just chill and try to minimize the damage while you're on vacation

by just not drinking your face off the whole time. And if you're going to do a couple hotel workouts or do aerobic monster while you're on the road because it's easy, it's all like cardio, you can just go for jogs and whatnot, then no problem. My answer was squat the house, alternate between aerobic and anaerobic, just so you get some breathing in different time domains, and then do some finishers with the Strongman program just because Strongman stuff is so good and is going to just keep –

just because it's so awkward, you can't really hurt yourself. Or if you're doing a bunch of, like, anaerobic training, sooner or later you redline enough and things just start to break down a little bit yeah um there's no reason to go and try and kill yourself before you go on vacation right like anaerobic training is great but i think that there's where where would you stand on if you had three months how would you go back and forth between or would you even go back and forth between a lot of aerobic work and anaerobic work would you kind of combine those two programs together well again it's a goal-dependent question like it depends on what this person wants to get out of their training um for context for

anyone that doesn't know we're talking about with the vault like we have we have four long-term training programs that are that are goal specific we have muscle gain challenge which is all about gaining muscle we have shrug strength challenge which is all about getting stronger but like with a crossfit bend to it um strategiesders for getting leaner and flight weight lifting is for weight lifting so if he has any one of those goals he needs to pick one of those main programs first and then if you want extra volume then you can add the three month programs on top of it because those aren't full programs they're just like a little bit extra of for aerobic monsters just a little extra aerobic

light intensity aerobic work like 20 minutes on a rower yeah that type of a thing of course there's more variation and variety there just for for entertainment sake we'll say um you know strong man's like a few extra strongman movements like two per day squat the house it's just a little bit extra legs the boulders for shoulders a little bit extra you know shoulder mobility thoracic mobility um scapular stability you know like not doing heavy jerks but like just like a shoulder health program you can add on top of your current training program just to keep your shoulders healthy that type of thing so you know for that person i would say pick a long-term training program and then depending on what your goals are then you can add it on one of the short

term training programs like if you're If you have a shrug strength challenge and you want to just do a little bit of extra cardio with it, like you want the strength bias, but you want a little extra cardio on top of it, then you can add Aerobic Monster to it. At this stage in your life, what are you more... Do you do much aerobic work? Not...

I do Metcons, which I consider Metcons to be aerobic work, even if they're only like a 15 or 20 minute Metcon. That's a long time in the Metcon world. It's a very long time in the Metcon world. Yeah, but as far as like aerobic work, like classically you think like aerobics, aerobic, low intensity cardio is like going for like 30 minutes, an hour running, jogs, things like that. Or even like light walking for me i do jiu-jitsu which is of course you know a lot of cardiovascular um stress there and then and then i will go for for runs every once in a while just because i enjoy it i like being outside you know i did a 10 mile race the other day just

just for fun but i don't i don't generally do a lot of like rowing i don't generally do a lot of, like, rowing. I don't generally do a lot of airdynes. I never do, like, you know, like, global gym style cardio where I'm, like, on an elliptical machine or, like, a stair-step machine or anything like that. It's, like, totally not my style. Like, the vast majority of my in-the-weight room cardio comes from Metcons. I started trying to view – I actually probably started this, like, two weeks ago. Yeah. I started trying to view, I actually probably started this like two weeks ago, in turning all the entire hour-ish, whatever I'm in the gym, into one long aerobic session, but just moving at a consistent pace

throughout the entire thing, but starting all of my supersets, trisets, whatever it is, starting all of that off with like 10 minutes on an airdyne into power cleans into pull-ups. And then whatever the next one would be like on a rower for five minutes. That way when I get to any of the strength work, I'm already just kind of in that like aerobic space. I've gotten some like monostructural stuff in. I've enjoyed it actually a lot because by theural stuff in. I've enjoyed it, actually, a lot.

Because by the end of it, I feel like I kind of went for a run, like a light run. My body doesn't feel like I ran for an hour, but I have that, like, windedness. But it's not the, like, beatdown that comes with redlining and doing a bunch of anaerobic work and maxing out, like pushing a prowler or something and wanting to die. If I'm in the gym and I want to do, like, I'm beat up for whatever reason,

I'm really sore, or I just, like, want to do something that's just not too intense and I don't want to think about it, then I basically do, like, an every minute on the minute. And I just, like, during the minute that I'm on, I pick the next movement for the next minute. And so, like, I'll just, you know, like, walk into the gym, no the gym no warm-up i'll just like start jogging in a circle around the gym it's like that's the first minute yeah the timer's on i'm jogging for a minute and then like while i'm jogging i'm like okay the next minute i'm gonna do walking lunges and then like while i'm doing the next minute walking lunges i'm like okay next minute i'm doing burpees and the next minute i'm doing ring rows and the next minute i'm and i just i just keep going like that for 30 minutes or an

hour or whatever happens to be and it's it's light, low intensity, but I also get a lot of variety where I'm not just rowing for an hour. Just rowing for an hour just sounds awful. I might row for one of the minutes, maybe even a couple times, but just sitting on a rower for an hour is just not something that I'm interested in. Way too painful. The one thing, so boring. Yeah, the YMCA that I go to. Hell yeah, Globo Gyms.

Yeah, YMCA. It's got a pool. Right. That's how it's so hardcore on Barbell Shrug. The YMCA I'm training at. I train at like five gyms. Yeah, all over the place. I have one Globo Gym and then MMA Gym.

I got a Jiu-Jitsu Gym. I have multiple CrossFit Gyms. If you've got a Globo Gym that's got a pool in it, and do Globo gyms have platforms now? They've got bumper plates. They've got bars that spin. It's all good to go to them. Oh, yeah.

I'm cleaning this bar at my Globo gym. They're really quiet, really quiet, like incredibly quiet, which is a little weird, but it's all right. Sorry, with the music or with the platform? Everything. Well, they have platforms, but if you drop a barbell in there, you're going to have like 100 people staring at you because nobody is dropping barbells in there except you. It's very, very quiet.

Yeah. You've got to put your headphones on. You have to. You don't know how weird you are by dropping a barbell on the platform. I actually feel really good about wearing my headphones in a global gym because i feel like i'm kind of supposed to if i have my headphones on at a crossfit gym i feel like i'm just like fuck everybody i'm actually super interested in this do you go podcast or do you go music oh no i i don't listen to music almost at all the only time i listen to music is is like if i'm home with my family and like i you know put

music on in the kitchen where we're like we're making food and we're hanging out like that. Yeah, that's a nice vibe at home just chilling. But if I'm if I'm by myself and not talking to somebody, the chances of me listening to music are very slim. I podcast audiobooks for sure. I listen to one song all day long, like all day. It never comes off. You just put it on repeat?

Repeat. And it's usually, like, a song that I don't even know where they come from. I'll, like, hear one. Like, for the past two weeks, I've listened to Meatloaf, I Would Do Anything for Love, a thousand times. Really? I would do anything for. Yeah.

I was on repeat all six minutes. Just nonstop. Yeah, yeah. It's almost like this background of just whatever it is. Just sets the vibe for the day and just rolls. Right. People probably think, well, no one knows. But I feel like I'm totally crazy having just one song playing all day.

And I'll go to the gym, and it's just like a, I don't even know, one song. You just don't want to think about it or what? No, I definitely don't want to think about it. I don't want to think about anything like that. But I know that, like, there'll be something that inspires that song. Like, I saw a video of Matt Frazier, and it was, I think it was in like an Instagram story and he, somebody like

talked shit to him about like, was he going to be dethroned as like, what's Matt Frazier doing and is he worried about the new CrossFit game structure?

Yeah. And he had a video of him playing the Rick Ross song like, I'm a fucking boss and it was so gangster and I was like, I'm downloading that song for sure. I listened to it for like two was so gangster and I was like

I'm downloading that song for sure. I listened to it for like two straight weeks just because it was like dude Matt Fraser's going hard in the paint right now.

The Meatlo song my dad used to have that CD so just like not CD tape let's be honest it was a tape.

So I saw it on like YouTube or something I was like I'm downloading that song but all day long. My let's get back to training. Real shit. The YMCA that I go to has a pool.

And the pool length is 25 yards. And a 500-yard swim is 20 laps you can hold your breath underwater and go 25 yards relatively easily do it 20 times as fast as you can that's my

anaerobic training these days it's awesome, I love it you started that stuff after going to XPT? yeah, I just wanted to well, I have a sort of client that has a pool at his house, and he invited me over, and I was like, dude, do you want to try this thing out? Like, I've never really, like, coached underwater swimming, and I had a blast doing it with him.

So then I saw that the YMCA has a pool, and I was like, dope, we got to do this. So I just kind of made one of the lifeguards. I was in the hot tub. One of the lifeguards was like, yeah, like 500, like 20 laps. And I was like, I could do 20 laps. I just made it up. My best time is like 1730 right now. It's pretty solid. Yeah. By the end of it, you're crushed. That's my anaerobic training hold my breath swim haven't done that a long time you should totally do it it's super fun just different like so now on on a full week i go i'm lifting three days swimming one day running trails one day and

running my hill which i'd like everybody in shrugged land to know. Doug Larson smashed me on my hill. I don't know where you came up with all that speed on hill sprint number three, but it was fast. Where'd you go? I was like, why did you do that? Why did you make me feel so bad about myself? What did you think of the hill? It's pretty nasty, right?

Dude, I love hill sprints. Yeah, they're great. They're one of my favorite things to do you know what you inspired me because they're nasty yeah you inspired me though i want you to know that because you know when you if you run the same hill over and over and over again you know how hard the hill is you know how to hit 90 and you know you're not really committed to it like you're not fully a hundred percent on that hill yeah and then you waxed me and i was like i knew it i knew i'd been half-assing it but i didn't have anybody to like really shove it down my throat that i suck so i did it earlier this week and every step i took i forced myself to feel like i was accelerating. Yeah. Game changer. Fucking crushed me.

It was like the first time all over again. One of my favorite things to do that I have not done much of lately, but I just need to bring it back every once in a while, is just getting on a hill or an airdyne or prowler or whatever it is, and you just go 100% full speed until you give up. Yeah. It's just 100% effort. It doesn't matter how far you go. It doesn't matter how long you go 100 full speed until you give up yeah it's just 100 effort doesn't matter how far you go doesn't matter how long you go you just fucking grit your teeth and you run 100 full speed until

you just decide i'm done yeah you don't you don't keep it going you don't slow down and then speed up none of that i love that you just keep going until you're just like even if you slow down like you can slow down but if you are able to speed back up that means you're not running 100 full speed you just run as fast as you can and you will slow down because you're getting tired but you just try to hang on as long as you can yeah it doesn't take very many of those is there anything better than just doing that or like doing that on a hill like yeah i like doing it on a hill just because I feel like it's so much safer. You're much less likely to trip and fall or something like that.

I feel like a geriatric saying that. Are we old now? No. Seriously, if you're on a hill and you're running full speed, it's just a small grade. It's easier on your joints, easier on your body, less likely to trip and fall. It's just safer all the way around yeah um i used to do that where you just kind of like go but like barefoot on grass or like at a football field or something along those lines

one thing that sucks about running on flat ground is you don't know how fast you are yeah like you really have no clue and then all of a sudden you hit top speed you're like oh i haven't slowed down in the last 10 years like how do i slow down it's a weird one right like there's it's it's like a full uh full sprinting is its own thing i wish people did more of it but when you go to the gym nobody like nobody's there's no room to sprint. Right. I think Kenny does a lot of running like that at Oak Park, though. I remember hearing or talking to him about how they do a lot of running

at different intervals and lengths. He probably does. His wife's like a 400 or 800-meter Olympian, and he used to be something similar where he was a 400-meter runner back in high school or college or something like that. So, like, they're pretty running friendly over the park in L.A. So he probably does a lot more running than someone like myself who came out of more like a weightlifting background. I want to talk a little bit about I believe it's in flight weightlifting.

Yeah. You have the tall power jerks where people have their arms at like a 90 degree angle and then driving themselves under the bar and this is in like meso one right um really getting people comfortable pushing themselves under the bar um i've never actually done a lot of that work where did where did you uh learn that was that just kind of like position work that's been common in your life from your weightlifting background? Man, I'm not sure who first introduced those to me. Maybe Justin Thacker, I want to say, potentially.

It's interesting because you see people doing them, and they may have great jerk form when they're doing the complete movement, but you get them in this 90-degree position, and things get weird for them. Yeah, it was either Justin Thacker or Zach Critch that showed that to us. But I know it was years and years ago, but you basically put the barbell right around like eye or maybe forehead height, maybe right above the forehead. Of course, the exact height doesn't matter.

Just the concept is that you're kind of halfway through the movement, and because there's no momentum on the bar, you have to push yourself down instead of pushing the bar up. Yeah. So it just teaches people how to get under the bar better and how to throw their front foot forward it's very common that people when they when they jerk they just step backward so if you can if you can just do that that front foot shoved forward uh it keeps you in a better position than if you just step backward so

it helps it helps with that specifically and then it just helps you get under the bar you know a lot quicker than you would otherwise yeah because a lot of people don't realize that when like when you're cleaning you only need to pull the bar like to your belly button yeah when you're when you're uh snatching you really need to pull the bar to like you know bottom of your chest nipples that type of that's not when you're fully extended that's if you were standing like getting it that high it should be high enough you should be able to yeah if you're lifting heavy you're hitting a max, then you can clean your belly button. You should be able to drop down and do a full front squat and get it on your shoulders. That's all the higher the bar needs to go.

For the jerk, it's right around eye height. You don't need to throw the bar that high. Like, if you're throwing it well above your head, then it's, you know, not a true max for you. If you can throw it, like, to forehead height, eye height, then you should be able to drop down and get it locked out. So that's the question that I wanted to get to, is that I see too many people when they're doing that movement, pushing the bar up and not thinking about driving themselves down in that position. In fact, if you were probably to put like a piece of tape, if there was a way to video yourself and

have a piece of tape on the barbell that you could see or maybe if you were at the glute lab and there was bricks behind you could see the brick line you should not be pushing the bar up at all you should be driving your body down under the bar and if there was a way to have like a a plumb line almost so you could see is the bar going up are you driving down the bar should not move right is that correct in that movement i'll be honest i wasn't listening man there was a lot of there was a lot of commotion in the background over here picture he was hoping i was just going to go on a friend i was like keep talking about it i'm busy right now you killed over there you got it how's that dang? Dang. Was it fun? Good. So in these tall jerks, when they're in this position,

the point of the movement is to drive yourself under the bar, correct? Yeah. And when you drive yourself under the bar, you're not pushing yourself up. And too often when I see that, people think push up, and then they just drop under the bar. And they should actively be using the bar to drive themselves down versus push up on the bar and just end up in what looks like a jerk. Totally.

Dude, this was rad. Thank you, everybody, that is in the vault. We've got a killer Black Friday sale coming up. Killer. 50% off your first month. Get over to ShredCollective.com forward slash vault Black Friday 50 is the coupon code. Save 50% on your first month. And after you sign up, you get a phone call with me, and I can help you pick your program.

So if you're not quite sure which program to do it, I will get on the phone with you and walk you through your goals and what you want to do, and I will help you pick the program that is perfect for you and how to combine them if necessary. Even if you don't want the program, it's probably worth the money just to get on a phone call with Doug. Get half off your first month? It's less than $30.

I'll get on the phone with you and tell you what the program is going to do. Black Friday 50. Save 50% on your first month. Get over to shrugcollective.com forward slash vault and we will see you guys next week.