Barbell Shrugged - What It Takes To Compete in Weightlifting w/ Travis Mash & Adee Zukier - EP 185

Episode Date: July 8, 2015

Part 4 of 5.

This week on Barbell Shrugged, we interview one of the world's greatest weightlifting coaches, Travis Mash, and one of his athletes, Adi Zucker. And we're going to talk about competing and how to choose a great weightlifting coach. Hey, this is Rich Froning. You're listening to Barbell Shrugged. For the video version, go to barbellshrugged.com. Everybody needs at least one unflattering nickname in their life. Yeah, I've had a few. I've got one that still sticks. People see me from college, they shout out, Sligo, what's up, dude?

Sligo. Yeah. Three, two, one. Welcome to Barbell Shrugged. I'm Mike Bledsoe, standing here at the MIA Classic. At Revolution Live in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. With the coolest logo on earth. That's right. If you're not in the animal cruelty, that's not our logo.

This is Sluggo. Chris Moore, Doug Larson, got Travis Mash back again. Welcome back, Travis. One of our favorite weightlifting coaches of all time. All time. One of our favorite bros of all time. Yeah, we like to get together in whatever town we happen to meet up in and get rowdy. Have lots of fun.

This is Miami part two. Last year there was scotch involved. We don't have scotch yet. We got a lot of caffeine. It's early. It's early. I'm already at the C4 coffee, so I'm ready. The C4 coffee.

Yeah, nice. We're going to be talking about coaching, your relationship with athletes, competing as a weightlifter, all that kind of stuff. Before we go any further, make sure to go to, actually, you should check out barbellstroke.com, sign up for the newsletter. If you're interested in weightlifting information specifically for you, flightweightlifting.com. Check that out. You can download a free e-book over there. Travis, how many lifters you got here this weekend?

You know, I haven't counted. Someone just asked me a second ago, but maybe 20, I think. It's a lot. Oh, geez. I know mostly tomorrow, too, so it's going to be – they all got piled in together, but it'll be fun. I can handle it. These are lifters from online programs.

They're scoured all over the place, so they train with you day to day. You know, I got Adiz here. I've got some of our online people. I've got some of the MassMobbyWay online people. I've got the MuscleDriver people. So, I mean, it's going to be busy. They're everywhere. Yeah.

That's what I love. Harley matters if you're virtual or in the gym. You can come see your coach and play some games and compete. Harley really matters anymore. It really doesn't. You know, even my virtual people can visit my gym anytime they compete. It hardly really matters anymore. It really doesn't. Even my virtual people can visit my gym anytime they want. It's part of the deal.

That's really cool. When we set that up and they actually come to the gym, it's just like I feel like I already know them. It's really crazy. When people see you guys, they feel like they already know you. You've got a ton of beginners coming in, I'm sure. How do you start someone off in the beginning how do you get them how do you like cultivate that

person from hey i just want to learn about weightlifting to like actually competing man the key is this is developing that relationship first you know is like getting to know that person letting them know that they can trust you um and just you know being friends i'm a totally different coach i'm not the old school you you know, crack a whip, no music. We're going to have a lot of fun, and I'm going to get to know you. We're going to hang out outside of the gym, and I'm going to let them see just how fun the whole thing can be. That's the key, man, and that's how, like, a lot of people come into my gym,

and they start by doing, like, athletic performance. Yeah. They'll know I want to get better at football. You're using weightlifting to help them be better at football or tennis whatever whatever and some of them like um you know hannah black or matt weininger they will lean towards weightlifting because they start enjoying that and they see they have a you know a better future in that and so you know i just recall the complexity of it and then the culture and history of it,

yeah. Man, you know, like, weightlifting is just so beautiful. Like, you know,

when you look at the sport of weightlifting, like, yeah, it's strong, so it gets that, there's so many sides of me

and that's why I love weightlifting. You know, you see that strong aggression, then you see that, you know, beautiful movement pattern,

you know, and then you see that, you know, that snatch, it's so complex and when the weightlifter catches that PR snatch at the bottom and you see the big smile come on their face.

That's the moment you live for, right? That is the moment I live for as a coach, for sure. I love how you start from this relationship position first before really you get too much in the specifics and long-term planning. Once you know this person, a lot of what you'll plan will make a lot more sense. It totally will. See, I'm not a coach that's going to force my athlete to fit my goals. You know, I've been a coach of John North, and I've been a coach of Adi,

and then I've coached people like Ariel Stevens. You know, three very different people. All three could potentially make an international team or an Olympics. However, only one of them really cared about that. You know, Ariel cared about that. So I'm going to help her reach those goals, what she wants. Dee wants to do a little bit of everything. She wants to do weightlifting, powerlifting, grid. You've got to have a fundamentally different approach to that.

Totally. You know, and as a coach, I'm going to help them reach whatever goals they want. And the only way they're going to tell me these goals and feel comfortable with it is if they know I'm open to what they want, not what I want. Nice. So that is a fundamental difference between me and a lot of other coaches. I think a lot of more modern coaches, that's going to have to be the case. It's going to have to be.

Coaching is a relatively new thing throughout human history. And I think that as we progress, the coaches of the past, you end up on a sports team. And it's just like, yeah, we're in this together. You're playing football. This is how it is. And they lay it out. And that's just because you're dealing with so many people and you're all on that common goal. With weightlifting, it's still a common goal, but you can still have that relationship.

Not only that, like athletes respond differently. And being a coach that knows how to respond to an athlete. This athlete over here, this one might need a smack on the ass. But this one might just need like some kind words before they get on the platform. Or humiliation or some other tactic. Some people do well with humiliation. Hey, you jerk. You look terrible today.

Watch, watch, watch. He's going to do good now. So you like at the junior nationals this year, it's funny you say that. Like I had, I mean, at least like seven or eight really good juniors. All seven or eight totally different. Like Dilly Cooper, he just got a bronze at the Pan American Games. That guy, it's all about just keep him calm, keep people away from him. He's super focused.

I don't really need to say a lot. However, Braden Lutke, my other guy who's also on the international level, he kind of gets down on himself. So literally he was about to bomb out of the cleaning jerk and I screamed at this guy.

I didn't know what else to do. I'm going to be honest. I was in this point. I had my hands on my head. I'm out in the cleaning jerk, and I screamed at this guy. I didn't know what else to do. I'm going to be honest. I was in this point. I had my hands on my head. I'm like, what do I do? Then I got mad at myself for not knowing what to do. So then I yelled at him. I'm like, you're going to make this thing.

I mean, I screamed, and people could hear. He's like an angry dad. I've got nothing else to do here but yell at this fucking kid. You can hear me in the audience. And this dude's a heavyweight. He can hear me in the audience and you saw and this dude's a heavyweight he's a really big dude and you saw him

lift up and he looked at me and he just got Jesus and he went out there and he crushed it and you know the Olympic coach

the US coach he was there listening to me Zygmunt and he was like yeah yeah I saw what you did it was great

you just gotta know those people and the only way to really know it is get to know them And he was like, yeah, yeah. I saw what you did. It was great. You just got to know those people. Right. And the only way to really know it is get to know them, you know. But I got to his stage and his career. Isn't he just basically a master psychologist and evaluator of people at that point? Yeah. Less than a guy who's picking out sets and reps all the time. Yes.

You know what I can tell you about him? And this is why I look up to him as, you know, of all the coaches in America, there's like two that I really, really look up to. But Z know of all the coaches in America there's like two that I really really look up to but Zingman's one because because he's Polish and like no one has ever left there saying what a dick that's true like I've seen a lot of athletes leave

a lot of programs they leave programs and they're like oh I fucking hate that coach now but I know a lot I've never heard anyone complain about him that's true everybody loves that guy no matter what. Primarily. Is it his ability to listen and connect? It's his eyes. There's no doubt that he cares about his athletes.

Yeah. And they know that. He has beautiful eyes, by the way. And he has a way of letting each of those people believe that when he's talking to them, they're all that matters in that moment in time. And that is a gift. Presence is another huge thing, right? If an athlete feels like you really are, even for this one moment,

focused 100% on them, that makes them. What they're saying. Because they can feel you really to connect versus you have your mind on five other people at one time. If you're being present, it allows them to be present too. You can pull them into the moment. Yeah. If you've done well.

Right. Nobody likes that person at the bar that you're talking to them and you can see that they're looking over your shoulder for someone someone cooler to talk to that hot check that's everything they're coaches are you talking about me we all have met coaches like that and there's a bunch in america and i think that's a culture that needs to change is like well that means they're starting from their perspective right not not the athlete's perspective right you know they yeah it needs to be about the athlete and we need coaches their perspective, not the athlete's perspective. Right. It needs to be about the athlete and we need coaches

that really care about the athlete and not saying you got those coaches out there that want to find athletes. They're going to help them get their level three or level five. Really, it becomes about that. Man, screw that. I just want to help this person reach whatever goals that

person wants. Or like publicize your methods and being that guy, which you can be, but if you're also trying to engage athletes, it's like you're trying to ride two horses with one ass. You're doing things that just won't... You know what? You can't fake empathy. No. If you really don't care about people,

then you should do the sport a favor and get out of the sport. That's worse than just being an asshole because people can feel the sleaze coming off of you. They feel like you're trying to care, but you don't really. That of the sport. That's worse than just being an asshole because people can feel the sleeves coming off of you. They feel like you're trying to care, but you don't really. That's the worst. That's not giving a fuck. That is the worst. That is the worst.

You know, Coach Don McCauley is the other one for muscle driving. All good things, yeah. I love that dude. And that dude lives the sport. Like, literally, because we've roomed together, and we normally room together when we travel with Muscle Driver and that dude will get up at two in the morning

and I'll be getting up to use the bathroom. I'm like, what are you doing? He's like, man, you know, I got to look up and see who Ariel's

competition was. I just couldn't sleep. I'm like, I got cares. I've looked at that dude and I'm like, you know, man, I got to love you for that.

You know, like, that's amazing. I've seen coaches. You've seen coaches? I think I just braced for it. Did's amazing. I've seen coaches. You've seen coaches? I think I just brained for it. Did you lose the whole thing? Yeah, I was like,

where did it go? Dom McCoy was up at 2 a.m. thinking about what he needed to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen coaches. Well done, Chris.

You brought it back. No, I've seen coaches that they've been around for a long time and then their lifters are warming up and I'm like, hey, how's it going? They're like, oh, could you come back later? Like, I'm

really nervous. I'm like, how many times have you coached someone at Nationals? Like, what are you nervous about? Yeah, and they're like in their 50s or 60s. And I'm like, they've been coaching for 30 years. It's the same way you're nervous if your kid's going to play baseball. You know that he's in the spotlight.

You want to see him do as good as possible. That's when you really care is that your coach is like, hey, go out there and do a good job. I want to be back here talking with these chicks at the booth. You might need to evaluate who's giving you the best advice. That's a coach that's a keeper, and that's a coach an athlete needs to stay with because they're going to do whatever it takes to help that athlete

reach their goals. That's what we're evaluating coming out of the coach. What do you look for in an athlete who you might choose to actually engage and push? Because you know that there's something else there. They are going to go for the spotlight. Maybe they don't know it yet, but they do have it. When I'm looking for the athlete that's going to break through to that next level, it's that athlete that will rise up at certain moments.

And I have like, maybe out of, I'm not even going to say who because I don't want the rest to necessarily feel bad. But there's like four people when they compete, they just change

and they rise above. And all of a sudden, they're able to do, they're able to do things that other people can't do. We've all seen it in the Olympics. You know, like guys like Piros Dimas. Oh, God, man.

If he needed to break a world record to win, well, that's what he's going to do. You can't, like, you know, you can try to encourage and you can try to change mindsets. And I do. I believe that you can definitely change, you know, paradigms. You can shift them up absolutely yeah but like there's a certain level but there's not enough research done yet on like guys like Michael Jordan you can all of a sudden play at a whole new level because they gotta win so that's one thing I look for in the Olympian but for someone who's just going to be

a really good weightlifter I'm looking for someone who can come in day in and day out, can take it. Because, you know, a big thing that will, like, separate will be the fact that, like, oh, my knee hurts, and they think they're hurt. Yeah. You know? Very confused hurt with injury. With injury. Right.

Yeah. And it's the one who just ignores that. Dude, you've got to read that Michael Jordan book that CTP and I read on the airplane. He's got this little business book from Jordan. He was explaining why he was who he was. And people would see Jordan go, obviously blessed. They're aware of the highlight reel of Jordan. You know, classically, I can't beat him.

Look, I'm not 6'6", I can shoot. But he makes it very clear at every stage of that story. It's like people see the highlight reel. They don't see that my whole thing was that my next opportunity to do a drill and practice, to compete, to recover a drill and practice to compete to recover from an injury to better myself in any small way he was going to win that one thing no doubt and he was going to make sure that his performance and his drive his effort and showing up and doing the extra bit he made sure that was example to everybody who was around him to get their

shit together to fucking get out of here dude that's why they were so good it's no fucking surprise that's every day for how long did michael jordan play this 20 year career whatever it was and the peak that you know him every day always with that attitude yeah so you follow let me give you someone to follow around and i'm gonna go and throw this out there but if you want to look at someone who's a michael jordan you look at ariel. That girl takes every aspect of her life and puts it in a box and perfects it. She's got a sports psychologist. She's got her nutritionist.

She's got her mobility person. She's got her muscular imbalance person. And in each little aspect, she perfects, and she'll talk to them, and she'll learn more about herself, just like a Lance Armstrong like you know he would hire his what is it the dynamic

pharmacist yeah yeah you know his aerodynamics person he would hire him then he would do his own research to give his own feedback well that's Ariel and that person is a special breed man and so that's why you've watched her is a special breed man yeah and so you've

that's why you've watched her in like a year's time go from really good to like fighting for international teams and next year i got a feeling it's gonna be really really hard to beat her so wow so we also want to get your thoughts on on programming for for both beginner athletes as well as advanced athletes and uh maybe i'll start with this we we discussed the other day with newer lifters, we feel like especially in CrossFit gyms where they're not trying to compete in weightlifting, they're just trying to learn the lifts as a part of learning the million other things you learn when you start training at a CrossFit gym.

They think, or at least it looks like they're trying to get stronger by doing the lifts, and they don't even have any idea of how to do the lifts, even halfway correct yet. And they're not focusing on doing strength work to get strong rather than doing the lifts to get strong anyone who's ever been on my programs knows that i'm a very strength oriented you know coach but coming coming out of power lifting right powerlifting just coming out of being a strength conditioning coach and coming from being exercise scientists like you guys yeah you guys, if you don't have general physical preparedness done, like a good layout, then you're not going to be good at any sport. You've got to be strong first.

That English strength. So like the basic back squat, overhead squat, pull-ups, pressing, very basic movements and getting strong. Because if you can't do an overhead squat, why snatch? Have you ever asked yourself that? Why do it? Yeah. You're just going to learn to be a really good power snatcher, and you'll never be good at the sport.

Right. Right. You can probably fix your technique in a year or two, but it's going to take you 10, 15, 20 years to get really strong. It is going to take you a long time. You know what was awesome? Here's what people should learn from. The best heavyweight in the United States history,

Shane Hammond. My buddy. Who Dr. Stone said was the strongest. He had the strongest hips he had ever seen and he had seen every pair of strong hips

that ever existed last year. 40 years of weightlifting. I've looked at all the strong hips. I've seen all the glutes and hips and son, you've got packing there. Two Christmas hams back there.

A little weird but that's cool. Things get weird in the show, why not? Shane spent four to six weeks with an empty, with a PVC pipe before he ever touched a bar. So why would you, the average person, jump on a bar and start snatching? For reference, this is a guy who squatted as a junior over 1,000 pounds. 1,000 pounds.

In an IPF. So he wasn't wearing any crazy gear. He had knee wraps and a belt and a light suit and he dunked that. Let me tell you that story fast. I just won the gold medal myself at the 198 class. And I'm walking around with my gold medal being like, check me out. Right, right, right. And then all of a sudden, they're like, oh, Shane Hammond's 1,008.

He comes out there and he smokes it. At the time, it's a world record, senior world record. This was at the Junior Nationals. He basically unlocks his knees and falls down and bounces up. And I just took my medal and just put it in my shirt. I was like, dang. It was a cool thing. At that point, I'd seen it in strength.

One last question, and then we're going to break, is what would you tell somebody who is thinking about getting in a weightlifting competition but not exactly sure what to do? Find a good coach because where people go wrong is that they jump in there and it's kind of complex, as you guys know. So get a coach that will take away those initial worries from you and then they can just handle you. They can tell you when to warm up.

They can pick your attempts. And then you make sure that first competition goes perfectly because if someone bombs out or has a bad experience that first time, that can ruin the whole thing. So find someone that can help you. That's what I would say. Awesome. Thanks. All right, we're going to take a break.

When we come back, we're actually going to talk to one of Travis's athletes. A D. Word! This is Tim Ferriss, and you are listening to Barbell Shrugged. For the video version, go to barbellshrugged.com. Barbell Shrugged is brought to you by you.

To learn more about how you can support the show, go to barbellshrugged.. Barbell Shrugged is brought to you by you. To learn more about how you can support the show, go to Barbellshrugged.com and sign up for the newsletter. I've been practicing saying your name wrong, I'm sure. Oh, everyone does. How do I pronounce it? That's so normal. Adi Zucker. We're all very worried about you.

Zucker? Yeah. The I is an accident. You care too much. The I is an accident. Yeah, like my parents immigrated here. When they came over. And then they put an I and they were like, whatever, just keep it.

And I said, fuck it. Yeah, they were like. I mean, I they came over. And then they put an I and they were like, whatever, just keep it. And I said, fuck it. Yeah, they were like. I mean, I got your first name down. Ready? The last name was. That's the biggest step. Adi Zucker.

They call me Adi or nobody knows how to pronounce it. Ad. Three, two, one. Shocker, bro. And we're back but with a different guest.

We have Adi Zucker. She is one of Travis Mash's athletes. Also, she runs something called Working Against Gravity. Really cool nutrition program that you guys do. But we're going to talk about weightlifting, competing in weightlifting, and all that mess first. Tell us about your relationship with Travis. How did you get into weightlifting in the first place, and then how did you find Travis? So I got into weightlifting. I started with CrossFit,

like a lot of people. I didn't do it for that long, maybe like under a year and I hurt myself. And then I had to take a full year off of training altogether. I just, uh, I was in university. I was bartending at a club and that's what I did for a full year. I hurt my back. So I was in university. I was bartending at a club, and that's what I did for a full year. What was your injury? I hurt my back. So I was doing like a set of 10 deadlifts, and I think the program said 70%, and I was like, nah, this is too light. That's usually how it goes. You cannot do that with a deadlift.

Yeah, you cannot. No. So I ended up hurting my back to a point where I couldn't sit without feeling uncomfortable. Wow. And I took a full year, didn't do really anything at all. And then when I came back, I was like, okay, I'm going to learn how to do this properly. I'm going to make sure that it looks good. And I started to teach myself through YouTube videos. I would watch like tons and tons and tons of YouTube videos.

Yeah. Yeah. All of them. Exclusively. Nothing else. She's like, no, not really, but other good ones. Pretty close. Pretty close, like world championships. You were watching just like competition lists.

Yes. And you're like, I'm going to copy that. Oh, wow. Which is a great place to start, yeah, just seeing the standard. Yeah, and I went into it with the mentality I would try and find lifters that had similar body proportions to me, and I would try and figure out how they would move. So I have a really long torso and really short legs. And so I would try and find lifters

that were kind of like that, and then would try and copy. Also, I love that lift's rough. That wouldn't be that hard to find at the World Championships. Yes. That's how good weight lifters were built. Yeah, you actually ideal, which is fantastic. You found an ideal sport for yourself. Yes.

From there, I Googled. I started to go to, I came back home after school and I Googled like a weightlifting team in Toronto and it ended up being the University of Toronto had a weightlifting team with the national Hungarian coach and I was super lucky to have access to him. His name is Steve Sandor and I trained with them for three years. And how I met Travis was after I trained with, for three years, I trained with like a really intense coach who was really old school, Eastern European, and was like super, like we weren't allowed. Cloudy in the training hall all the time.

Eastern European and great, cloudy. It was like we weren't allowed to talk. I wasn't allowed to sit for periods of time. And then I wanted something different. I wanted to learn something else. I hit a plateau in my training, so I decided to. But what did you take out of that specifically? Because that's a big difference where you came from and certainly to CrossFit.

Was it that drill camp structure, something that could quickly rally and then go, okay, I've got to maybe figure more of this out. I've got to step up my game quickly. Because obviously it's probably pretty intense training. Oh, definitely. For me, after three years, it sucked all the fun out of weightlifting for me specifically. So I'm the kind of athlete that needs to be having fun all the time. I need to be able to laugh.

I need the camaraderie of my teammates. I totally – it was too intense for me personally. It was a lot of just people getting mad at me for missing lifts. I had to be afraid if I missed a lift, I might get kicked out of training and sent home. And I needed something completely different. It reminds me of old school football practice where it's like any sign of weakness or mistake, you had to correct that just by belittling and getting into the head of the guy. Oh, yeah.

That's really interesting. I stopped doing gymnastics because I got a new coach who was Hungarian and like super super super fucking hard on me. Like if I bend my elbows he duct taped a

piece of wood on the back of my arms so I couldn't bend my elbows anymore. Yeah. And it was just like I would just keep bending and keep like knocking

into the wood and I was just like I don't fucking want to do this anymore. I took a break and just never went back because I didn't like that guy. It was totally unlike most of the training that I'd done up until that point. It's almost a little bit too much for me.

Some people, like my teammates, a lot of my teammates are still there, and they love his style. I think we just butted a little bit. Yeah. It's probably effective if you can tolerate that style, if that style works for you. He probably could produce some fucking awesome athletes.

Oh, yeah. He's a 48-kilo lifter right now that's competing at the Pan Ams this summer and she started at the same time as me. So that's... But it's great

you were recognizing that for me, I need something different. You weren't just trying to force something that it was... It was obviously good. This guy's producing lifters.

These lifters are great. This is a great place. But just because of all that didn't mean you had to stay with it. Right. You knew you needed to find something different. Right. Absolutely. And you found one of the best coaches around, Travis.

Who's rather different than that? Travis. Like, if you're going to talk about, like, a polar opposite coach, Travis is the polar opposite. So I decided I was watching a lot of, like, Attitude Nation videos with John North, and I decided I wanted watching a lot of like Attitude Nation videos with John North and I decided I wanted an atmosphere that was like that. Like people blasting music and having a good time and slamming bars and doing all that. So I went to Attitude Nation

and Travis was there and he was like, you should come spend the whole summer here. I'll hook you up. I sent him a bunch of emails. He never responded to any. Like, never responded to any. He's nice, but not organized in his email. He was lying to me. I think he responded to, like, every five that I sent. But, like, I was very persistent. It was like two words. Yeah. He was like, oh, yeah, for sure.

I'll hook you up. Sure, sure. Uh-huh. Just trust me. Yeah. And so that summer I was like, well, I'm just going to show up at his gym and like call him on it. So I just drove from Toronto to North Carolina. That's fantastic.

And just showed up at his gym and was like, well, you said I could come. So here I am. That's the best way to go. I think a lot of times people that want to do big things, they want to like go do something like that. I think most people are like, I want all the details or I'm not doing it. You're never going to get the details. It's a mysterious thing for you to go do.

It's like the people who really end up doing big things I think tend to go, you know what? I don't know what I'm getting into. We'll figure it out. It's just the act

of going for the big thing and it's a demonstration to everybody around you that you mean it and now Travis sees that. Like, holy shit, you fucking drove here? Right.

Come on. And that's more than an email. You actually care. Now I should care, too. That's a good way to start the relationship. It's a good way to filter, too. Yeah. Filter out people.

I thought I'd be a world champion, but I sent you that third email. You didn't answer back, so I guess I'll give up on the dream. Some people, I think, maybe cut it that short. Probably. Well, I think a lot of people are probably just afraid. They're like, well, if I'm not going to have a place to live and I'm not going to have anywhere. I think like if you really want to do something and you love it, just go for it. Like worst case scenario, what would have happened?

I would have had to. You could have died. Yeah. Well, I guess. Probably unlikely. Let's not go down any philosophical rabbit holes about the real worst case scenario I was at a truck stop

I was just getting a protein bar some guy passed me a bag of powder I said I'd hold on to it for five minutes worst case scenario I'm in jail

we wouldn't go that far that's actually a real story this is speaking from experience I'm going to reference your story hey what's this in my hand?

All right. So when you started with Travis, were you already competing at that point? Or were you still thinking about competing? Where were you? I had already competed at nationals the year before. So when I went to Travis, I had to make the decision of whether I was going to go to nationals or I was going to go to North Carolina for the summer because I didn't have enough money to do both.

So I decided that I probably wasn't going to medal at nationals that year, and that was my goal, and I was just going to go and do what I needed to do. It was probably a better step towards that goal to go work with Travis for the summer than to go to nationals and spend all that money for a weekend versus an entire summer living in North Carolina. Right, it's a better long-term approach. You're going to get more out of training a whole summer with Travis than just doing one more competition, even if it is

nationals. Absolutely. Especially being very young in your career. That happens to a lot of people. I think they would be, most people would be like, I've got to go to nationals. They're not thinking long-term. They're not making an investment. They're not thinking a year down the road or four years down the road. They're thinking like,

I need to be hitting numbers in the next 12 weeks. Right. Which is, weightlifting is not like that at all. I think, like, it's, I guess, the law of marginal returns. Like, the more work you do, the less you're going to get back. And at a certain point, you're going to have to do, I think this is from a Catalyst Athletics article, but at a certain point, you're going to have to do three times as much work to get half as much progress. Oh, yeah.

And the thing that's really cool about weightlifting is every single time you touch the bar, whether you make or you miss the lift, you're always getting stronger. Like, no matter what. Something was learned. So it's not about what you're lifting right now. It's not about where you start. It's about where you're going to end up. Yeah.

And I think people forget that. So you went and Travis accepted you with open arms. He did, actually. You didn't die. No, I didn't die. So how did that summer go? I got close to dying a few times. In the gym, it was this brutal

oil. So Travis is kind, but he's not going to take it easy. No. He gives you really, really, really hard programming, but then puts this like jolly like I'm Travis Mash and we're having a really good time

and it's so much fun. It's the old Peyton Switch, isn't it? Absolutely. We're having a great time. Here's your workout. And all of a sudden Stone Cold is silenced.

He'll like blast music and he's like, yeah, we're doing 10 rep max squat with two drop sets at minus 5% and minus 10%. Let's go. and you're just like oh you and travis both came to our mastermind and we were out back training one day and i heard travis talking to somebody and you were right

there too and he was like yeah you know i really do my best to not beat up my lifters and you turn around you were like what are you talking about like i don't remember that at all yeah it did not go like that definitely he is full of shit don't listen that at all. Yeah, it did not go like that. Definitely not. You're like, he is full of shit. Don't listen to him. I mean, to that point, isn't it like... He doesn't injure them. He just...

You're going to feel not great every morning. There's a motivation that's required to get you to the mindset to take on that workload, but would you say you have to take on that workload to get to this next level? You have to really push yourself past what you would anticipate being the real limits? I think in weightlifting, you have to push your limits for sure. That's what weightlifting is all about is pushing. I mean, in terms of he's nice, but he gives you his workouts. So really like

even with a smile on his face, if it's like a 10 RM squat, that's really, really intense. Far more than maybe. Did you do anything like that with the Hungarian guy? Was it all? No, we did we did like eights, but it wasn't like, you wouldn't have to do two drop sets at basically the same,

like minus 5%, minus 10% at the same weight. Like they're probably harder than the actual first set that you're doing. Yeah, it's really hard. So I would do like doubles going up to the first 10 because I was just like, I'm not doing that many.

Yeah, you got to figure out, well, I mean, hitting a 10 rep max doesn't mean you do 10s the whole way up. No. Like, if you kind of figure out a little system, like, all right, I'll do five at this weight, and then when I get closer, I might do, yeah, a double. All right, now I'm going for 10.

Right. Like, once you figure out kind of where that's at. But it might take you a little while to figure out where your 10 RM is. It's better to, like, be conservative. He had it for us every week. Yeah, I've been on his program before. Yeah, it's... I feel like... I got the strongest I'd ever been.

But yeah, when I went to bed at night, my whole body was going, wow, wow, wow. Absolutely. I was in the process of cutting a weight class and I had started with a 125 kilo back squat and I finished with 143 by the end of the summer. So I definitely, Travis definitely knows how to get people strong. That's absolutely true. And you were losing weight and getting stronger.

Yes. You made a crazy, like you made a similar transition to Elise who was on our team who like, she lost like 20 pounds and then she put on like 20 pounds on her snatch at the same time.

She got stronger and lost a ton of body fat at the same time, which a lot of people tell you quote unquote isn't possible, but it happens all the time. Right. I think like in terms of that, it's people are so set that mass moves mass but your body fat isn't necessarily

helping you lift the weight and i had a lot of that yeah so i had a lot of body fat to lose so so what was the swing how did that work for you like how much weight did you lose and how much weight did you put on your list at the same time i was 70 kilos in body weight and i dropped to 63 kilos so that's eight kilos yeah 15 16 pounds uh and i gained like nine 18 kilos on my back squat my snatch went from 77 to 80 my clean and jerk went from 92 to 99. He definitely got me a lot stronger. Snatch is more like a technical thing,

so we have like a love-hate relationship. You gotta have a love-hate relationship in one of the key lifts in any lifting sports. Absolutely. It's snatch for me. You rarely get better at both at the same time. Never. You'll be trained for a while. My clean and jerk is going great. My snatch is going down.

What is going on? Same exact thing in powerlifting. One of the lifts goes to shit. It just happens. I don't know. It's so true. Yeah, you just got to try to maintain one while you grow one and go back and forth. So it's like you're going like this.

That's a program design thing a lot of times too. Like the athlete doesn't know why their snatch is improving and their clean and jerk isn't. But the coach is kind of like, well, yeah, because the program is built around improving that right now. So it might not be something that the athlete's aware of all the time. And in regards to that, as an athlete that's trying to be competitive, you have to choose a coach that you can trust that knows that. So if you trust your coach to do that for you, that's a good relationship right there. So I know that Travis tells me to do something, I'm absolutely going to do it. I don't question him ever. I know that there's a purpose for it,

there's a plan for it, and I know that I'm going to get better because of it. And as somebody who's looking to get competitive into weightlifting, you have to try and find that relationship with your coach, which is maybe something I was missing before because I wasn't enjoying myself. With Travis, I definitely have found that relationship. In regard to being coached on the platform, how is that different with Travis? So, am I allowed to swear? Yeah.

Okay, so my old coach used to come up to me before my third attempt, whisper in my ear and go, don't fuck this up. And I used to sit there and be like, oh, great. Thanks for the vote of confidence. Positive reinforcement. That's what we call it. Yeah, that's the way of doing it, but I don't know if it's optimal.

Travis is like not, he's literally the polar opposite. So he's getting you fired up. He's coming in and out. He knows exactly how many temps you have. He knows exactly what weight should be on the bar. There's no questioning. You're not sitting there being like, oh, maybe should I be taking this weight? Should I not be taking this weight?

He is telling you how awesome you look, how fast you look. I don't think maybe he'll give me a few cues that he's used a bunch of times with me before, but he's not giving me anything completely new. He's mostly giving you permission to have fun out there too. Isn't that translating to better performance, would you say? For me. Go out there with a smile on your face yeah absolutely so joining travis what what exactly has changed for you as a lifter do you think i mean this is this venue here you've

you've you've prepared for this meet you can look back on the big pivot points what did he really bring you to your training you think made the real big difference in your development these last year year and a half how long it's been now i think the biggest difference that travis has brought is that he believed in me as a lifter and believed that i could do bigger things than probably i thought i was capable of doing and uh helped me feel trust in him and that was like a huge change i didn't have to guess whether i was going to be getting better or whether my training was right. I knew that he had a plan for me. It seems like a lot less focused on actually the gears of what the

training and the program was and more just trust in a relationship with this guy. I guess people can look for that more often in their coaches and less about just the numbers being put up in the training facility. Right. Yeah. Absolutely. So what's next for you right now? What are you working toward? I get like a lot of problems with this kind of question

because I don't like really, I'm not the kind of athlete that has like a long-term plan. I'm more of like a, I want to do this, I'm going to do this, and I don't like think about it in between. I just kind of like go right to it. So I just started training with the Baltimore Anthem in the grid last weekend. So that was our match was last week, this past weekend, I'm pretty sure.

Did you compete? Last week. Right? Yeah, it was last weekend. It's hard to keep up. Did you actually compete or were you just there? I was the number one cheerleader on the bench. I was, if you see, I'm standing on the bench screaming really loud. I was not active for that game. But you definitely helped. Yeah. Oh, for that game. But you definitely helped.

Yeah, oh yeah, for sure. I definitely helped. We didn't do very well. Oh no? But I'm doing that training for grid, I guess. And I'm doing this tomorrow. And my next step after that, I guess the grid season starts. So we have two matches in August and then a match in September.

I had nationals like seven, eight weeks ago. So that season came to a close. And then from there, I have no idea. I'm just trying to be strong and have fun. Those are pretty complicated. If you're going to choose two sports to compete in, strength sports, grid, and weightlifting are pretty closely aligned. You don't have to have, your training doesn't have

to change so much that you're going to have to take your focus off weightlifting. Right, so grid is really good at showcasing what you're really good at. I don't have to do 20 muscle-ups as fast as I possibly can. I don't ever have to be good at that. I just need to be able to do snatch and clean and jerk and do

it really well, efficient, fast, sprint, and things. I've got to be able to do snatch and clean and jerk and do it really well, efficient, fast, sprint and things. I got to be able to do a few muscle ups. Yeah, you still have to do the other stuff. You just don't have to be like the best at that other stuff. Right. Is it nice to be able to kind of get a break from just focusing on snatch and clean and jerk and to be able to do something else that's similar and complimentary, but not quite the same thing? Just give you a little like variety break for me it's essential otherwise i wouldn't be able to train i i i would not progress if i did just snatching clean and jerk for an extended period of time for me it gets so frustrating you're just not seeing it's weightlifting is so tangible like your your success is defined by a number like this is your pr and if you don't hit that PR if you don't beat that PR

I'm not successful and that's so hard to deal with mentally all the time process is that yeah the lift happened or it didn't and no excuse is going to change that nothing yeah exactly and it's for me I need a break from that completely at certain points in time I just need like a few months to be like I'm not going to do that at, but I'm still going to do something that's going to at least make me stronger. Like I said, every time you make a lift or miss a lift, it doesn't matter what you're doing or what weight it was. I'm still getting stronger, but I need like a mental break to be able to, I want to like be hungry for the bar again. When I go back into weightlifting training, I want to be hungry to do snatch and clean and jerk every single day. Oh, you definitely need that hunger. Uh, Eddie. Eddie, just quick before we go, what would you say to that person who's listening,

who they're thinking about this and they're not sure what they'll get out of it, what do you say to people who want to compete? What will they stand to gain if they choose to enter a competition and take on that journey? I think that in weightlifting it's hard to tell you what you're going to gain, but you're going to gain something extremely positive, and you're really going to learn something about yourself that you didn't know that was inside you. And doing it in training is one thing, but getting out there on that platform in front

of everybody, you're really going to learn things about yourself that are going to make positive changes in your life moving forward. You're going to make some personal discoveries. Yes. Adi, thank you for joining us. No problem. Thanks for having me. Where can people find you?

People can find me at workingagainstgravity.ca The Canadian website, can we get that in America? Yes Good, I'm going to verify that Give us the two second explanation of what that is So it is a nutrition consulting company where we make an individualized macronutrient profile

depending on whatever your needs are whether you're an athlete or a mother or anything, we can create a nutrition plan that's going to help get you to wherever you want to be, whether it's gain weight, lose weight, lose body fat, anything. We got you covered for sure. Excellent. Cool.

What about social media? Where can we see you? Social media is at Adi Zucker. A-D-E-E-Z U-K-I-E-R, and at Working Against Gravity as well. Excellent. If you go to barbellshow.com and click in the show notes, you'll see a handy one-click thing to find her.

Making it easy for you. I click it, boom, look, there's the pictures. We'll make it easy. Excellent. Thanks for joining us. Thank you for having me. Cheers.