Barbell Shrugged - When to Make Changes to Your Training w/ Anders Varner, Doug Larson, and Travis Mash #810

Episode Date: August 13, 2025

The crew breaks down how to know when it’s time to pivot your training. From bodybuilding and Olympic lifting to CrossFit, strongman, and martial arts, they share what decades under the bar have taught them about adapting for longevity, avoiding injury, and keeping fitness enjoyable. In this episode, you will learn: How to recognize when your training is no longer serving you Safer alternatives to Olympic lifts for maintaining speed and power Why jiu-jitsu has become the go-to sport for retired strength athletes How strongman-style training and outdoor labor can replace conventional workouts The role of play, community, and nature in sustaining lifelong fitness Work With Us: Arétē by RAPID Health Optimization Links: Anders Varner on Instagram Doug Larson on Instagram Coach Travis Mash on Instagram

Shrug family this week on Barbell Shrug the homies are back and today we're talking about how you know it is time for you to transition pivot from what you're doing in the gym, nutrition, et cetera, so you can get more return and enjoyment on your investment into that time in the gym. As always, friends, make sure you get over to rapid health report.com. That is where Dan Garner, Dr. Andy Yalpin, are doing a free lab lifestyle and performance analysis. You can access that at rapid health report.com. Friends, let's get into the show. Welcome to Barbell Shrug. I'm Andrews Barnard. Doug Lars and Coach Travis Smash. The homies are back today. Today we're going to be talking about when the right time for you to pivot your training modalities, whether it's the intensity, the way that you are training, or just having a longer vision to how you can really maintain fitness for the rest of your life.

Yes. Which is, dude, how many different. types of fitness have you attacked since you were like 13 years old when did you start lifting weight smash 11 11 oh really Doug you were like 14 right yeah I did gymnastics I did gymnastics growing up so I had like strength training experience so speak but I didn't start doing cleans and deadlifts and squats and so I was 14 that's right yeah yeah I was doing gymnastics super super young too the uh that's like a whole other show and training our kids on things like that you mash you have your whole thing. But yeah. Yeah. I started officially lifting weights when I was 13 years old.

And now I'm, this might be summer number 13th. This is summer 29. Next year will be 30 years. When I think about the number of different ways that you have to train to keep this thing going, it's so wild. Not get bored. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. The, um, but one thing that's interesting though is like there's, there's always like themes, I think, that like run through, like, MASH, when you first started, you weren't that interested in like just powerlifting. You were playing football, right? Yeah, it was, I really fell in, yes, it was football,

but I fell in love with bodybuilding because it was Lou Frigno. It was the incredible Hulk. And my uncle told me that that was a real man. And like, he was this bodybuilder. And I'm like, oh, God, that's a real thing, a real person. You can look like that in real life. It fascinated me, and then I was like, yeah. So bodybuilding was probably first.

I love it. I still dig it, bodybuilding. I mean, like, I'd never had a bodybuilding phase ever. Really? Doug, did you have a bodybuilding phase? Not like I wanted to compete as a bodybuilder, but all of these strength training resources when I was growing up were bodybuilding focused.

They were all bodybuilding magazines. It was all muscle and fitness and flex and muscular developments and all that stuff. I bought everyone, yes. I mean, once I was, once I had access to the internet, like, I remember reading Louis Simmons powerlifting stuff in, in high school, like in the late 90s. I was, I was reading just like his website. But that was like the first like raw strength training, pure raw strength stuff that I ever really got exposed to. And then shortly thereafter when I met my coach who, who learned weightlifting from Coach Bergener, I started getting into weightlifting. And then I kind of went down the weightlifting rabbit hole.

but but all my like real strength training, hypertrophy knowledge and information was all bodybuilding focused at least like in junior high and high school. Again, prior to that it was all gymnastics. And then really the thing that got me into like more traditional, not traditional, but like more, more less gymnastics,

but like fitness fitness was I was doing the the buds warning order, which is like the workouts they recommend that you do before you go to buds, before you go to these, you know, Buds is like Navy SEAL boot camp, so to speak. But in the region, reason that that I took to that because all it was was pushups, pullups, dips, which is, you know, very gymnastics friendly, of course. And then, uh, and then, uh, distance running. They didn't have, there was no legs anything. So like transitioning from gymnastics to the buds warning order was like a very easy transition. And then I met my strength coach who's still a great friend of mine and, you know, started learning. Um, it was, uh, right just, I'm sorry, immediately prior to that it was a bigger, stronger faster. Yeah. That was that was a, that was a book. Like I know there's like, documentary type stuff that's a similar name but there was a book called bigger stronger faster

and there was organization called bigger stronger faster right yeah and uh i actually went to like one of their seminars out of high school and that was the first time i ever saw anyone do a clean in real life was the first exposure ever had to it and then i met my strength coach very shortly after that right about time that i was about to go into into high school and then then it was it was barbells for the next 20 years yep bigger faster stronger was like what we followed as well in high school Coach Bergener's name made me so happy. Like, that guy's been lifting weight. He's like, we need him on this show because he's been doing this for like 50 years now.

I know, man. Yeah, he commented on one of my posts this week. He trained Olympians. He like introduced Olympic weightlifting at the high school level to like thousands and thousands of kids through the PE program out in California. And now he's out there with all of his buddies like pulling or carrying wheeled arrows up this like super. to Arley Hill outside his house. He's had probably transition and pivot to something new 70 different times. Oh, he's the man.

Yeah. He introduced weightlifting to CrossFit, right? And he would, like, the... He was the first, yeah. They would, like, send the... They would send a video crew out to the high school, and he would have 50 kids at a P in an hour in P.E. Dip, drive, press.

Like, he had, like, doing the Berger warm-up. That was like what they started PE class with every day. Yeah. Dude, you know 20 or plus years ago when you were like on Napster and you were like downloading whatever the hell you downloaded on Napster? I used to download videos of people lifting. You were so letting say Limewire, don't know, Joe. Yeah, dude. Oh, oh, yeah.

Naps or Limewire, Torrance, like all that shit, you know, movies, music, pornography, like all like the normal, quote unquote normal shit people would download with all that stuff back. the day, right? Before streaming was what it is now and music was essentially free, et cetera. But I used to download videos of people lifting weights in Bergener's garage. Like when Sage and Bo and like his kids were young,

like they were like in high school. Like I would there was like that was available to download on Napster. Just like you download anything. And I used to like watch videos people lifting in his garage. And then 20 years later, whatever, we used to when we lived in San Diego, we used to go train at his garage. I was like, dude, this is fucking rad. Like I remember watching this like when I was in high school.

Watching Natalie Wolfelk when she was, before she was a Bergener, watching Natalie move under a barbell was like the most inspiring thing of my life. I could not believe a girl lifted weights with that much aggression and speed. Like,

I just had no idea that that was even possible to move the way that that girl moved. I just can't believe what it did to weight lifting. Like, I remember just like, there was like a moment in like 2006 where like I was ending my power lifting and I kind of got away and like having a tough time mentally and then all of a sudden I come back and I realize oh wow

weight lifting is popular again and like everybody's doing snatch and clean and jerk I just couldn't believe it and here was North Carolina now MDUSA's here it was like a dream come true yeah yeah dude in college like when I would go lifting the weight room and I had my weight lifting shoes on nobody knew what they were People would come ask me all the time. What are those? Like, I've never seen those before. Like in 2005, six, seven, like nobody had even seen them before until across it came along.

And then all of a sudden, now they're just a, quote, unquote, normal thing to wear. That's just crazy. Now, hold on. I need to know the name of the company that made, it was that like Riso, who made the weightlifting shoes? Adidas had a pair. Yeah, mine were all Adidas. Adidas was the, oh, geez. What is it?

that. Adidas was like, you know, like in the early, 90. There was a company that was out of like New Hampshire or something. They were so sick. They were like black and white. They looked like Adidas, like bowling shoes almost. I want to say they were like Rissos, RISO.

Yeah, we sold them in the MDUSA, but I can't remember. They were so sick. Nobody, there was only two companies. It was Adidas and them that made them. And there was sort of like more handcrafted looking. so you spent an extra like 25 bucks to get them they were so baller when i was doing weight lifting there was just adidas yeah this is actually like my uh like such a good transition because all of us have a a very long history with Olympic lifting yeah when was the last time he did an Olympic lift

you still do cleans every once in all right still do cleans and i'm doing overhead squats now and like you know part of me wants to get back into it slowly but like never will i compete in that you know again I just want to be able to do it so I can teach my kids. But I feel like in talking about the pivot, it's like the easiest one because in our training, we still have to have speed and power. You do. You should. And you have to have to have the athleticism, like the connectivity to the barbell, being able to move around an object, like the gymnastic side of it. Dr. Andy Galpin here.

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If all of our bodies are completely beat up, like, I would never snatch. The last time I snatched was actually like two years ago in Memphis with Doug, and I snatched 185, and I went, next is 205. That 20-pound jump felt like 4,000 pounds. Galpin looked at me and was like, I saw that. And I was like, dude, I'm never doing that again, man. That was terrifying. But how do you, like, what was your, as far as like still having the speed and power side of things that you have to be working on without the Olympic lifting,

which is where you kind of like started that process. What is that transition for you guys to keeping the things that you need to be training, but without kind of like moving away from Olympic lifting as the main modality for training it. Just doing like trap bar jumps. I still want to do some type of jump with, you know, I don't want to just jump because like that could lead to injury. But I want to do some jumps,

but I like to do the trap bar jump is easy on my body. And like I can really like without increasing weight, I can use velocity and look at like 50%, 75%, 90, 100, and see if I'm getting faster. which I am progressively getting fast with those. So I don't actually have to add to that. And it's leading to me being able to be more athletic. Like I'm jumping higher again.

I would like to get a 30-plus inch vertical leap again at 52. So which I'm getting close. That's a big one. Dude, that's an enormous. It's an enormous vertical jump for a 52-year-old. There's no other 52-year-olds out there to have a 30-inch foot. I know. I like doing a lot of things.

I don't know if I ever add one that big. I had a monster vertical when I was young. I was at 34 in college. When my wife met me, I was still dunking. I'm only 5'6. And so I even entered a dunk contest when we first met, which is part of the reason she felt for me, too, just watching me jump like that.

I touched the second row of netting one time, and it was scary. I was kind of like I hit it, and I was like, I turned around and looked to see if anybody saw that I was actually flying. It was terrifying how long I was in the air And I was probably off the ground like six inches Like there was ill

I don't have I love I love watching Spudweb 5'7 Flatsy air Man yeah He literally was flying So I mean I had a similar response to you As far as like what to transition to

Like occasionally I do power cleans Probably less frequently than snatch pulls But as far as like Olympic stuff It's probably the most common thing that I do these days Yeah just doing a snatch pull I pulled off the ground I extend fully and then it just drops on the floor I don't catch it anymore at a shoulder surgery many years ago I don't catch anything overhead anymore it just I would just end up having more shoulder surgeries and it's completely

unnecessary at this point yeah uh hex or trap bar jumps certainly uh those are those are sled sprints or or stair slash hill sprints are the other one that's like the most common like I can do stairs threats you know tons of volume it never bothers me that's like my most agree out of everything yeah love doing like if you can find like a slight incline and i love running hills running stadiums stairs sled sprits um prowler pushes any of that it's so much and it's fun too i love just feeling athletic you know doing yeah athletic things makes me feel young because that's what we did when we were young yeah yeah i mean the the other one that's like specific to my interest is is like heavy bag work like hitting a heavy bag hard fast powerful

uh is is very fun number one um and you anybody can do it like full power like you don't have to be in really good shape to do it you can just um as long as you make the commitment to do it a hundred percent full power you can take as long as you want in between you know in between you will call them sets like uh in between rounds where you know you throw a three punch combination then you kind of dance around five seconds throw another four for common four punch combination dance around for two seconds and then um again if you're focusing on speed and power you just make sure that you rest long enough in between your combinations to make sure that you're throwing at least above 90% full speed, which is slightly different than other types of rounds you could do, but to

the power-specific conversation, if you're out of shape, we still want to work on full power, you know, throw a combination every 10 seconds, whatever it is. Just change your, I wouldn't call a rest. Oh, that's a great idea. Just change your combination interval where you can, you can keep full speed the whole time. It's very fun. Doesn't make you too tired. And if you like boxing, kickboxing, and MMA and all that stuff like I do. It's a fantastic way of trying. That is my next goal is to get into Jiu-Jitsu and then I want to do some kickboxing as well and then eventually merge the two.

But I want to slowly get back into that. Now that my hips can move, I can kick again and I can turn my hips so I can punch hard again. So I would definitely want to get more into that for sure. Yeah. Doug, why does so many, like, the meathead population, when they retire from whatever strength sport they play, wind up in a gay choking their friends out? No kidding. It is like a real problem. Everybody leaves the barbell, and next thing you know, they're choking their friends out.

Oh, yeah. It does seem to be the natural place to go at the moment. You get more injured doing it. it, but it's constantly in more pain. You're like, I'm going to choose a better path here because if I keep lifting like this, I'll be injured for the rest of my life. Let's try Jiu-Jitsu. There you go. It does seem intuitive that it wouldn't beat you up as much as it does. But like, yeah, after you do your decade of CrossFit, it's like you've got to go do your decade of Jiu-Jitsu. It's like an enormously high percentage of Crossfitters have made that

transition. I don't know. Part of it's probably just like Jiu-Jitsu happens to be the next, you know, quote-unquote cool thing that's just on the rise. And it doesn't seem like it'll beat you up to the same extent that like cycling barbells well like you know doing doing hang power cleans for reps with 205 or whatever it is like he's just going to beat the shit out of you and it's it's it's a great thing to do for you know for your 20s but then uh jiu jihitsu despite it being um seemingly a gentle sport in some ways um and it does beat you up and it does the interview it kind of paradoxically you also still really can do it until you're like 40 50 60 i know people that are like in their 60s that roll with 30 year olds and you can do it for a long time.

Just like training, just like strength training, like it'll change and evolve throughout the decades. But nobody's doing kickboxing when they're 65. It's just like it just doesn't happen. You don't play football when you're 65, but you can do jujitsu when you're 65. So people don't compete in CrossFit, even if they continue to strength train. It's this unique thing where people really can do it into old age. So I think as far as like a sport that appreciates over time you're going to be learning something that you're going to continue to do for a long time i think it's a it's a phenomenal choice i agree with you i agree you know i would recommend anyone listening if you want to get into jiu jitsu you're better off to start

to train with someone who knows what they're doing sparring with another rookie is how you get hurt is like you know some young person you know some young person who's just learning jizitsu is not the way to learn get with someone who won't hurt you and then i think jiu jitsu is something you can do without injury if you have the right instructor and and you're wise enough not to go too hard and so yeah that's yeah trouble too fast it's like uh i was actually talking to my my stepdad uh this weekend because he was like can't remember what he was explaining to me about something in the woods and i was like he's like you just got to go slow and i was like Yeah, the pros, like, the people that know what they're doing, they slow things down.

Yes. The amateur is like, how do I do this at 75 miles an hour? And that's how you just get immediately in trouble. Break, yeah. People don't know what they're doing. They're able to just go at a slow pace, do it well, like do the proper steps and avoid the collision of whatever bad is about to happen. Yeah. Yeah. If you don't know any moves or any technique, any strategy, then all you have at that point is speed power and athleticism. So if you're a young person with no experience, like you have to be rough, basically. It's like I call it riding the bull. It's like if I'm hurt, I have a rule that I don't roll with inexperienced big people. Like if I'm already injured, like if you're injured, you want to find the most experienced person possible and tell them like my like my fucking shoulders fucked up. Like don't hurt me and they'll be. Yeah. No problem. Got it. Yeah.

Like, I do the people all the time. Like, it's like the first thing I say to people when I roll. Like, I go, you banged up? You're hurt anywhere? Like, I want to keep my friends, teammates healthy. And they'll say, oh, yeah, like my fucking neck hurts or whatever it is. And everyone has something. And I go, cool.

Just let me know. And I want everyone to have a good time and stay healthy. So I can keep on your neck today. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's also like a subset of exercises that I'm just not. never going to do in my life because of the injury thing like the I think part of like having some experience and in a lot of this is like when when they throw crossfit at you and you have

to do 500 different movements at all of this intensity now when I think about so many of those things I go is there any real benefit from like handstand pushups or box jumps at like high reps and I guess you could like make an argument for some of it I don't know the understanding kind of like the return on the investment versus the risk of that investment is like not even close when you start to look at so many movements as you're kind of like dealing with that transition period yeah I'm not trying to do anything that might be like I want to jump but wisely That's why, you know, start with some jump rope, and then I start boxed up and stepping down. And then I start to do more of the elastic stuff where it's reactive, where I might jump down, jump up, jump down, jump up.

Which is, I'm there now. I mean, it's all needs analysis. It's like goal-specific training. Like, if you are trying to compete in CrossFit and you're 22, then you need to learn how to do butterfly pull-ups because it's a part of the sport. Just like in football, you need to know how to tackle people well. Right. but you don't need to you don't need to tackle people when you're 55 like to be to be fit it's just a part of the sport of football like butterfly popes are part of the sport of crossfit

if you want to do crossfit you need to be good at those and you need to have all the requisite boxes check to be able to do them at high volume um without injuring yourself and that's great if that if that is your goal but if you're an older person and or you have a shoulder injury and or xyz other things then there's many other things you could do to anders point that where the benefits are high and the risk is much, much, much, much lower. You know, another modality I would like to try is like, it sounds crazy, but it's like strong man. I'm not saying competing.

I'm just saying training with those like lifting stones, you know, doing the farmer's carries because it's function, it looks fun. It's something that would, then I feel like I could get that high intensity without necessarily like hurting me if I, you know, just. got to be wise you can't i'm not going to go try to like lift the same way as like uh one of the professional strong men but eddie edie hall or something but it looks so much fun and like sarah one of my old um former weight lifting athletes and palatting athlete she's she just turned pro sarah johnson so shout out to her but yeah looks a lot of fun yeah i mean back to anders like

original questions like when do you know to transition away from certain exercises like I feel like there's two criteria. Like, are you competing anymore? Right. And are you experiencing joint pain with that exercise? Like, if you're not competing and it causes you joint pain, if you're playing the long game, then you probably don't need to do that thing anymore. Does it mean you never do it ever again?

Not necessarily. Like maybe whatever your achy elbow or whatever it is, is feeling fine that day. And you want to pick up some stones and great. But if it hurts, then if all you're doing, not all you're doing, you are getting some fitness benefit by doing it, certainly. But if you're just making your elbow worse, then eventually you're going to be elbow surgery, even if it's not for 10 years,

then you're doing yourself a disservice in the long term. So there is something else you can do to give you that same or similar strength, strength endurance, intense, like, you know, psychological intensity feel, whatever it is. Like there's other ways to check the boxes.

There's so many exercises you can do where you can pick something else that doesn't hurt you and still will give you, you know, most of the other benefits you're looking for. I would even add one. more criteria and that would be like if you're still enjoying it or not too like because if you're not enjoying whatever you're doing the odds of you staying consistent are race slim and so like if you're getting bored with it switch man there's a million ways to skin a cat and so like you know switch

to something that you enjoy that's safe agree yeah like you were talking the other day about my kids like doing fitness not that they're actually thinking about doing fitness but they're just They're just out running and playing, picking stuff up and, like, throwing things at each other, not hard, sometimes hard, but mostly not hard, things at each other. Like, they're just sprinting. They run hard. Not because someone, like, told them to do it because they're just playing. Having a good time. That's what my wife was talking about.

And if you are able to somehow, as an adult, just get out of your adult brain and figure out ways. Like, the jiu-jitsu thing, I think one of the things. that draws people, I have no experience in it, but when I watch it, the thing that so many people are like drawn to is that you immediately have to be hyper-focused and you almost hijack getting into like a flow state where you're not in your conscious brain at all. Like, you're just trying to wrestle with people. And that is like the most childlike thing that exists between boys, girls, their parents. Like, it's non-stop wrestling. When you're a kid sometimes it's hitting but it's non-stop physical contact where like you're in this aggressive

scenario you're problem solving and you're just playing and there's there's it's it's it's way too easy as an adult to get stuck in this like progressive overload brain and like it needs to be structured and if I'm not doing the right thing then I'm doing the wrong thing without realizing like over a you know we we talked the beginning it's like 30 years of of workouts, I can't remember a single specific training program I did. That might be a lie. I remember the one that I did to squat 425 because that was like the biggest moment of my life. But like, I couldn't tell you a single 13 week block that I've ever done and like what the result of it was.

But all the times that I got to go like play, like I loved CrossFit so much because I was still playing a sport that I cared about training with my homies. and doing, like, just feeling like a pro athlete in a very knit sport that nobody cared about. I get it. But I felt like I was living the life. Same as parenting, man. Yeah. Like, you have this group of guys that you work with so hard every single day.

And we were just playing sports. There wasn't, like, it was so much less structured, so much. I couldn't tell you each of the blocks, how we structured years. Did you get structured? or anything or was it really random was it were you guys like really random or did you structure things it was more random because of me like Brian was the intelligent person and I was like I would just like walk around and talk shit to people all day long until we were in the middle of some sort of workout he he would write all of the main things and then um it was we we just went we just did it

It was as hard as we could go. Like, it was also like, you know, people in CrossFit didn't get smart until I was like kind of done. Like until OPT showed up and was like intelligently teaching people about conditioning programs and energy systems. If you didn't go and have an exercise science degree and then the confidence to actually go implement that into this new sport where everybody was just mainly trying to throw up every day. You just Horrible You just Trained as hard as you could

And maxed out everything All the time I'm pretty good at it But Brian was like Very very intelligent About training and structuring it And all those things But I was much more

Just like in the gym Talking crap to people And whatever someone wanted to throw on a board I was ready to go You need both sides of it Yeah Yeah, you need a little bit of the crazy. Yeah.

Someone has to do it. What about now with your transition to the outside? Oh, wait. But Doug, you were going to say something a few minutes ago, but then Anders said. I don't remember what it was. Probably wasn't. All right. So, like, Anders, so this transition to the woods.

Yeah. Did you do that on purpose for fitness? Like, what caused this transition? I'm super curious. Yeah. Well, one, I'm here. um and i i would say so i have when i moved here i have like a maybe like a 10 foot tall 10 foot wide three foot deep woodshed um like for firewood that essentially was completely empty

and i had a chainsaw and then i had an axe and i went i think it'd be a lot cooler if I just woke up and chopped trees down and made my own firewood. And that's what I did. So I went and chopped down like a 100-foot tree from in the ground to firewood. And then I did it again. And then I did it again. And then I was sitting there watching YouTube and regular looking people were building log cabins. And I went, well, I'm already chopping a lot of trees down.

I just need to do it in this manner and try and figure out the next skill of it. But it probably, like after the log cabin thing is like really where it took off because that is where I was throwing like 10 foot 300 something pound logs around and I went, oh, these things are big. They're all different sizes.

they're all different weights. I have no idea what I'm picking up right now. And that part is actually really cool to me in the progression of this kind of like having to always change things. I'm at a stage right now in lifting weights in the conventional way that I have no interest in getting stronger.

Like I hip thrust the same thing. I hack squat the same thing for the same reps. I do glute ham raises with the same weight, with the same form. Like, all I care about in the gym is just the structural integrity that everything is firing in the way that it's supposed to. Perfect. And if I squat, which I don't, but if I squat 225, I know what 225 is. And it's just, it's to like Henry Rollins, like, 45-5. pounds is always 45 pounds. I've lifted that 45 pounds so many freaking times that it's just

not that interesting. Right. But how do I do all that and essentially turn it all into play with something that I think is cool in my environment? And then when I started doing it, I went, oh, this is like exactly what I want. I'm up here in the woods. It's 630 in the morning, chopping trees down, flipping logs that are gigantic. building something cool and I'm just playing in the woods like a little kid I just happen to be more jacked than like my four-year-old to do cool stuff.

Bro, I think the same reason as the strong man. It's cool. It's so functional. It's like, you know, kind of what you think about building is like, is the reason why I'm going to, you know, thinking about doing more strong man.

It's just something, just picking up something, carrying it, maybe putting a log on my back, squatting. Yeah. It just seems so. you're in nature it really is intriguing that one of the things mentally that i like committed to

and moving out here um and my neighbor thinks i'm a total lunatic because he has like a tractor and like all the stuff and it's like really and i'm like he goes what what are you doing today i'm like i got to go dig like four holes and he's like you want the tractor and i'm like no i want to go dig the hole and i just kind of committed to like the physical labor of it without all the machinery and then i if i just do that i don't have to worry about being in shape it's just the life that i live requires me to be physically fit and i don't have to think about training i just i'm always working hard and like this morning i'm out there cutting logs into 10 foot section and then I got to rip all the bark off

and then I'm putting them up for the like blah blah blah and I looked down to my Fitbit and it goes, are you done running? It thought I ran like 10 miles this morning. Wow. It's tracking your heart rate and it's at an elevated that, you know, it has no idea

that you're not going for a run. You're just, but it's in a better way that I'm in the woods and breathe in fresh air and it's fun. It's new. it's like with my environment yeah right

I mean you've mentioned like the play elements many times now like circling back to your question about why people transition to jiu jitsu and jiu jizu is like has that that very it's a very playful thing to wrestle with somebody for fun and wrestle with your you know you wrestle like my if my nephew comes over and he's four years old like we're going to wrestle for sure like it's just

it's just going to happen but the like the community elements like the team element of crossfit gyms it's very social it's very playful in the sense that you like you're you're you're doing something with your friends like um you get done doing crossfit and you don't really want to go to the gym anymore like but you do you do want that community elements and you just do like it's a phenomenal replacement for crossfit in that sense where like you're going to be doing

something with your bros so to speak and as opposed to like when I go to like a big box gym I got my AirPods in listening to podcast listen to audio books whatever it is I'm lifting weights I don't talk to anybody most of the time yeah but when I go to gym do it's like impossible not to talk to people like you have to talk to at least the person that you are rolling with like get to say hello you know give the give him a fist bump say what's up and then and then you're then you're rolling at that point maybe you're not like like verbally communicating but like you're like in a prolonged hug for five minutes like you're you're you're connecting with another person whether you what you want to or not automatically and

you're going to do that with 10 people and then go home and you're going to get that every single time so like especially through like the COVID years or coming out of of the COVID years. Everyone's like working from home. They don't talk to very many people or see very many people make eye contact with very many people throughout the day. And then if you go to Jiu-Jitsu, like at least like you know you're going to like interact with another human being at some point in your day automatically without having to like without having to think too much about it. It's just going to happen. I love that. I think you know, your boy Alex Macklin, he's actually doing really good at the whole sport of Jiu-Jitsu. Hell yeah, man. Alex is crushing.

would have guessed Alex would be, you know, like doing like a violent sport like that, but he loves he's such a nice dude, but like, it's cool to see. I remember when he started. Yeah, he's the best. He probably still does, but he was texting you like every 10 minutes. Oh, yeah. Oh, he texted me all time. He just learned. Sure. Yeah, we, we text about jihitsu relatively frequently. Like, just random texts out of nowhere. It'll just be like, man, I can't. I can't figure out this piece of my guillotine. Like, but I tried it today. And now I got it. Like, I'll just get random text like that all the time with no context behind it he's just telling me about his day but i think that's part of the part of what's intriguing about martial arts is there's always

something new to learn even black belts you know even there's so many like levels it's like you'll learn something new till the day you die probably like does anybody ever learn everything no of course not no i mean like i've been doing jiu jiu jits for 20 years and i mean this is how it goes with learning anything at first like you don't know anything of course and then you learn a little bit and you start to think you know something and then you learn a little bit more and you realize oh yeah it's the whole dunning kruger effect and then eventually you become an expert and you realize yeah I really do know something but there's way more I don't know than I do know and the rabbit hole can always go deeper et cetera like you're never going to know everything about physiology you

never going to know everything about about business you never going to know everything about being a parent like there there's always more to learn and jujitsu is no exception like I I studied Jiu-Jitsu on a daily basis, like academically study it, plus I go roll, plus I've been doing it for decades. And now more so than ever, I realize that I fucking don't know anything, but I also realize that I know a lot. It just there's, you can't, you can't ever, you know, you're running to the horizon, but the horizon keeps, keeps, you know, becoming further away. It doesn't matter how far you go, you'll never get there. That's what intrigues me about it. I think that's what makes it the next step.

Because, you know, with weight lifting and power lifting, like, there's, you know, I love both, but, like, there's only five lifts. And, like, I know them real well. And so, like, I need a new challenge. You know, after I do this whole little one-year thing, but, like, I'm going to need a new challenge. But, you know, in the meantime, I'm going to start doing that. I just need to find a really good coach. And so that's my next step is getting a good jiu-jitsu coach. Now that my hip's good, it's going to be fun.

I'm excited about that. Couldn't imagine my arms around you and do something. I mean, really challenging. You know, with someone like me,

like all a guy like Doug needs to do is survive like 13 seconds. You know, he said, wear me down for about maybe 30 seconds. And then he's going to put me to sleep. You know, so.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah, man. I mean, I mean, you got your boys like, and your little girl, like everyone,

you know, all little kids like wrestling, like regardless of gender like if you found a good jih Tutsu coach and they have like adult classes and kid classes at the same time you can go do your thing while they're doing their thing it's a it's a fantastic way to spend time with your kids and then and then of course you can wrestle with them while you're there like yeah it's a very it's a very healthy very fun thing to do you look over the corner and like bears put rock to sleepers uh oh let go let go sure i mean yeah i think the physical contact side of it too of jihitsu is like so uh in

reigned in us as humans that we like I would love to reach out and hug you bros while we do podcast but I'm stuck here behind a desk and we're all in different places we probably miss as humans in today's world or just being adults really just having the physical contact of it I think about the NFL guys all the time where they go from for 15 years of their life they're getting there's there's this extreme physical contact that they have every single day of their life. And they're in this locker room where everybody is experiencing this really intense

physical connection to each other and battling some other team. And then it just stops. Oof. Boom. What do I do? I still need it. And hockey is the same way.

I remember to just being like, I'm playing in a league that I can't hit people. Like, what's the point? like how am I supposed to stop somebody like how do I how do I play the game if you don't let me do the thing that is yeah how do you play hockey without making contact right you quit that's how you do it oh yeah kind of like football play in men's leagues and yeah yeah it's not it's it's less fun see that's the sad thing about American football is like you know when it's over it's over you can't go play basketball you know basketball you know basketball you can play forever but when the The last day you play American football is the last day you play football. And it's like, it's such a sad day. Yeah.

But I don't think you can replace that physical, like, jih Tzu is a great place that you could go replace that physical contact. But it's, it's probably something, even if you, like, probably if you, if you rolled the clocks back far enough. And you might even have to go that far, but it's like, there were probably many societies where, like, Greco-Roman wrestling or, like, The physical culture, those magazines, remember those? Yeah. Yeah. An amazing gym. But the physical culture was so much more embraced by societies that we just don't have anymore.

Yeah. And that physical contact was probably something that you kept for the majority of your life until you became maybe like the coach of that or something. Just because life without technology has to be more. more physical. There's no, there's no other way. No doubt, man. Yeah, I know now everything can be done sitting at your desk looking at a screen. Sure. You have to go feel alive. Yo, taking this one more direction here, like the other primary thing that I do outside of the gym that I've gotten more into over time, where Jiu-Jitsu kind of checks like the community physical contact box, in addition to the health and fitness box, and just into the learning

and development box, but hiking and rucking and just being outside is like another piece that the more I have business to do and the more family life that I have to do, I'm just inside a lot, of course. And so I love it. Finding an excuse to get outside and go for like a two hour, a two hour ruck on the weekends or going on hiking trips and being outside like three, four days in a row all day long. Ideally, with a close friend or family member, like where I'm hanging out and having good conversation along the way.

I didn't care much about this at all 15 years ago. And over the last decade or so, I've really, really come to enjoy hiking for many reasons. I treasure those moments in nature. Like, you know, you can, like, rock and you can be gone, like, hour, two hours. And you don't even realize it. You don't even realize the calories you burn. You know, you look down at your little Fitbit or whatever you have.

And you're like, oh, my gosh. But you just get lost in nature. And, like, if you can just, you know, either, sometimes it's good just to put your phone down. Don't listen to a book and just, like, be in nature. And, like, where I live, I can just walk down to the lake. I can see wild geese. And, like, it's just, I love it every day. Yeah.

So I actually find myself, like, when I'm out in the morning, still listening to some sort of podcast or something. And I'm like, am I missing, like, half of the excitement of this of just hearing nature while I'm listening to someone just basically modern age a.m. radio. Is that what I'm doing out here? Like mobile, mobile AM radio. I got to put it down sometime. I know.

I'll find myself like if I'm walking and I don't have something in my ear, I feel like, I don't know, like anxiety. I'm like, whoa. Put it down and enjoy the moment and look what, you know, look at nature. Look at what God has created and like. And then I love those moments. love the moments i put it down i love the moments too when i'm listening to both but like i love being

in nature and just like my thoughts you know yeah it's some when i want if i want some deep thinking like that's the best way i feel like i always come away from a long ruck or walk with some new idea or some new like take on life if i just put things down you know yeah i mean a lot of times on the weekends. This is like a very common thing for me. I do take my phone. I don't listen to audio books or podcasts or anything, but I do just have like a Google Doc open on my phone. And I will, as I walk, I will just dictate notes into my phone. I have an idea. And I just, I just say it real quick. It writes it down. And then I put my phone back on my pocket. And, you know, as I, as I have a two hour walk ahead of me, inevitably, I end up with like,

like, you know, ideas for for shows or projects or things I need to say to somebody, my whole to do list, meetings are planned. Like, I organize my entire week while I'm on a very chill, very, very casual hike on a trail. It's really, really nice. It's like I get the fitness benefits. I get the outdoor benefits. And then I'm also like very productive along the way. Me too. I always come back for those walks or those rocks with like, you know, a lot being done, ready to do and like motivated to like go do these things. Sure. Like if if you need like a, you know, if you need like a new path or some new ideas, put your mess down and go for a walk. Go get in nature, like, yeah.

I still haven't tried grounding. Have you guys, the whole go put my, yeah, I haven't. Yeah, of course it's nice. You're barefoot out. Is there a thing to it? Is there anything to that? You accidentally step in a red ant pile in the middle of the summer. It's great.

I'm not trying to do that. Nothing that makes you feel more alive. No, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, one of my neighbors found a copperhead in their yard. Yeah. It's like, oh, in a way. That's terrifying.

Yeah, I know. So, like, yeah, but. That's terrifying. But is there anything to it? Doug, scientifically, grounding. Is it a thing? I've never actually looked into it. I have no idea what the,

what the scientific validity is of any argument. I actually don't really even know what the claim is. So I'm not the, I'm not the question. It takes a lot. I think that there's an enormous number of connectivity. that happens at the bottom of your foot and the earth. Did you say you believe this? Yeah.

But I don't know if it's like a catalyst to you achieving your fitness goals faster by any means. But it's the same as like being outside with your shirt off and feeling and absorbing the sun versus wearing like a t-shirt or a long-sleeve shirt. Like, I choose to have my shirt off as much as I possibly can because I want that giant ball of energy of being absorbed by my skin as much as possible. Like, I want the sun on me, warming me, and feeling that nonstop. Like, I haven't worn sunscreen in like a decade because I just want the sun on me at all times. So do you think, like, the whole thing that the UV rays are dangerous, is overrated.

Those people are on crack, which I just offended everybody that's listening to this. I'm sorry. Yeah, if there's any like hermetologist or like. After living in SoCal, after living in SoCal, for a decade,

if you start early enough, like February, just going outside with your shirt off, and you do it all the time, like February, every day,

10 minutes, March, 20 minutes, April, 30 minutes. And you just, Live your life as much as you can with your shirt off and you're outside, your body will progressively overload in the same way you get stronger to not having to worry about wearing sunscreen and your body just adapts to it. I mean, there's a part of me. I was like the whitest. I would get sunburned so bad when I was a kid that I would like have blisters because I was so unadapted to the sun and then I would go to the beach and be out there and it'd be 105 degrees.

Now, it just doesn't exist. I have zero concern over a sunburn at all because even in the winter, I try and take my shirt off as much as possible. If I try to have my shirt off starting in February all the time, whenever I can, whenever it's like 50 degrees, just get your shirt off, go outside, be out there as much as possible. And as the sun comes up, towards July and August, you're fine. You're going to be okay.

part of me wants to believe it and like I can see I mean it has to be like you can't have like we need vitamin D but you can't have like which is it you know like yeah so I definitely want to what do you think is

how long have humans been alive and how many years of that has the sun been here yeah sure somewhere along the way like you didn't have like mass extinctions from sunburn

Sure. Something happened. Sure. I don't know what, but we started put on going inside a lot and not exposing our skin because we created these awesome clothes. And none of this may be backed up, but after literally a decade in SoCal, I realized I never need sunscreen ever. No, I mean, I just haven't read that, but I've heard that there's some more recent research that might back that up. And so that's the next area that I would like to look into. So as of now, don't do it because I see it.

I want to write an article on it. Where could people find you? Oh, yeah. Is this the segment into, we're done? We're wrapping it up, buddy. I got it. Oh, yeah, it's a hard stop. Mashelit.com, you guys.

Like, go check me out. Got all kinds of new stuff on my website. Look at that. Got my, hey, Corey Gregory, got a brand new co-op with Corey Gregory. So go to Mashelite.com and see a, The supplements. Beautiful. I love it.

Doug Larson. Oh, yeah, man. Douglas E. Larson on Instagram. I love hanging out with you guys. I know that's fun. It's the most fun. I feel like this is just my favorite, no offense to any of the guests,

but this is my favorite. Just rapping with the homies about. It is fun. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. They're the easiest, most fun shows, for sure. Exactly. Fly by.

I don't know if anybody gets anything out of them. I'm probably just making. No, there was a lot of good stuff today. If they listen today, they got a lot. We'll be all right. Nah, that was a good one. I'm Anders Varner at Anders Varner, and we are Barbell Strugged,

to Barbell underscore shrugged, and make sure you get over to Rapid Health Report.com. That's where Dan Garner and Dr. Andy Galpin are doing a free lap, lifestyle, and performance analysis. You can access that over at Rapid HealthReport.com. Friends, we'll see you guys next week.