Barbell Shrugged - Why Your Training is Leaving You Injured and How to Fix It w/ Dr. Sean Pastuch of Active Life Rx— Barbell Shrugged #351

Episode Date: October 31, 2018

Dr. Sean Pastuch is a doctor, coach, educator, coach to athletes, and founder of Active Life Rx, which he founded with a belief that the world deserves better solutions than the current modern medical model. For programs with Active Life Rx: http://alturl.com/zr6qm  Active Life Rx is the only company in the world helping thousands of people to get out of pain without going to the doctor or missing the gym. They also educate health care providers and fitness professionals on how to provide solutions to their clients the way we do for ours.   In this episode, we talk about how to eliminate fear of pain in your training, how you need to train for health - as you are not going to the CrossFit Games (@crossfitgames), how to design programs to eliminate injury, the time when Dr. Pastuch told Rich Froning to take time off, and more.   Enjoy- - Doug and Anders ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Show notes at: http://www.shruggedcollective.com/bbs_pastuch ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Please support our partners! @organifi - www.organifi.com/shrugged to save 20% @thrivemarket - www.thrivemarket.com/shrugged for a free 30 days trial and $60 in free groceries @OMAX - www.tryomax.com/shrugged and get a box FREE with your first purchase @foursigmatic - www.foursigmatic.com/shrugged  to save 15% on your first purchase @vuori - www.vuoriclothing.com “SHRUGGED25” to save 25% storewide   ► Subscribe to Barbell Shrugged's Channel Here ► Subscribe to Shrugged Collective's Channel Here http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Shrugged Collective is a network of fitness, health and performance shows that help people achieve their physical and mental health goals.  Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first Barbell Shrugged podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast. Find Shrugged Collective and their flagship show Barbell Shrugged here: SUBSCRIBE ON ITUNES ► http://bit.ly/ShruggedCollectiveiTunes WEBSITE ► https://www.ShruggedCollective.com INSTAGRAM ► https://instagram.com/shruggedcollective FACEBOOK ► https://facebook.com/barbellshruggedpodcast TWITTER ► http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged

Shrugged family, we are back with another week hanging out with Dr. Sean Pastuch. Yeah, do you know that Doug and I put up a little questionnaire because we're going to Boston and New York to do a whole bunch of shows and the question was who should we interview in Boston and New York and an overwhelming number of you said we need to interview Sean Pastuch from Active Life Rx. Well, guess what? Shrugged fam beat you to the punch. We got to hang out with him at the CrossFit Games. He crushed it. You're about to listen to his interview. Not only that, he's doing an Instagram live takeover or Instagram takeover today. So he's going to be all over the Shrugged page. And on top of that, he recorded an awesome series that we are putting out on our YouTube.

So get over to the YouTube page where him and Lindy Barber are talking training. They're talking movement. They're talking CrossFit games. So many things. You guys thought we didn't know who this guy was. Yeah, right. We've been working forever with him now. Dr. Sean is actually an awesome guy.

I did his show on Monday of this week, which will be coming out probably in about a month. And I'm incredibly grateful for that guy. He works really, really hard, puts out a really good message, and inspires a lot of coaches to focus on movement, mobility, and really about becoming a professional. The hashtag TurnPro geeks me out every time. Make sure you get signed up. Get over to ShirtCollective.com. Get signed up for our mailing list on Monday, November 5th.

I am putting out 30 days of free coaching. I have scoured through thousands of podcasts, hundreds of articles, one bajillion technique wads from Mr. Doug Larson, and compiled all of it into 30 days of free coaching. So you are going to get the nutrition, the Olympic weightlifting, the movement, the mobility, the warmups, everything you need to know for understanding the principles of fitness, strength, conditioning, and how you can start to build your knowledge base in these realms. 30 days of free coaching. You're going to get one email every day talking about founding principles of strength and conditioning. You're going to get kicked to an article,

a podcast from an expert in that field. And by the end of 30 days, you're going to have a bachelor's degree, an unaccredited bachelor's degree because they don't have an accreditation process for this to understanding strength and conditioning, how your body works, how you should eat, all the things. I'm incredibly proud of this. It's been a lot of work going through our site, a lot of work listening to a lot of podcasts,

and I'm very, very happy to bring you guys the 30 days of free coaching and bringing this information to you. So get over to strokecollective.com. Make sure you sign up for our mailing list. And on Monday, November 5th, we are launching 30 days of free coaching. So make sure you get over there. Also want to thank our sponsors, Halo Neuroscience. We had Dr. Daniel Chow on the podcast last Wednesday. Mind-blowing. The guy knows everything about the brain.

Comes from a medical background, started to realize how neurostimulation plays into movement and how they can start using his research and science background into developing athletes and working with their movement patterns. They've been working with CrossFit Invictus, Kristen Holt, Camille LeBlanc-Bazinet, Carrie Pierce. There's a very solid resume of CrossFit Games experience, great movers, great athletes, all benefiting from the technology and the headset that Dr. Daniel Hsiao has created

over at Halo Neuroscience. If you are interested in saving $100 on Halo Sport headset, make sure you get over to gethalosport.com forward slash shrug, and you will save $100 on your headset. Once again, that is gethalosport.com forward slash shrug. Also, get over to and use coupon code We interviewed the CEO. We did two photo shoots in the clothes because they make us look so good.

They're comfortable. They're versatile. They bring fashion to fitness. Because they make us look so good. They're comfortable. They're versatile. They bring fashion to fitness. The CEO is so awesome. Joe, he worked out with us. We've got a vlog coming. I'm telling you, all kinds of things. I'm getting in bed with these guys, and I'm loving it.

I'm loving it. It's all good feelings in this bed. You can come be a part of this bed, too, if you go to vioreclothing.com forward slash shrug25. You're going to actually not forward slash shrug25. Go to vioreclothing.com. Use coupon code shrug25 to save 25%. And now, the people's guest, Dr. Sean Pastuch. Welcome to Barbell Shrug. My name is Anders Varner.

We are at the Fit8 Fan Experience at the CrossFit Games in Wisconsin. Madison, Wisconsin. You bet. We got in at 11 o'clock last night. There are so many freaking fit people hanging out. You might want to bring that a little closer to your mouth, bud. Let the people know where Mr. Beautiful is hanging. Oh.

Could you hear me now? A lot of people just felt that. They didn't even have to hear it. They felt it. Could you hear me now? We are here. Well, that's a special guest right there, Mr. Kenny Santucci. Doug Larson in the house.

Kenny Santucci? Kenny Santucci. I'll take Mr. Beautiful. People are always like, does that ever get old? I'm like, nope. Nope. Never gets old. When we interviewed you, I spent multiple hangovers hanging out in college with you on the TV.

And all you want to do, really, like no one cares about your fitness knowledge. No. Let's just get the dirt about the real world. Everybody's like, hey, man. I'm like, don't ask. Don't ask. What about that? No.

And from Active Life RX, Dr. Sean Pastuch. Well done. How's life? That was a good pronunciation. Life is good. I've been working on it. I knew this one was coming. I've been preparing. I appreciate that. Yeah. How many athletes are we hanging out with this week? Me? I haven't

actually done that. We just recovered from a one marathon row. Yeah. Some beat up individuals I imagine. Yeah, you know, not as bad as I anticipated. It was I thought they were going to be beat up much worse. They were just really, really, really sore and tired. Imagine that.

It wasn't like the joint pain that they get from the thruster ladder that's coming up. I don't even know what they were working out talking about. I don't know what it is either. I just saw them demoing a bunch of thrusters. What impresses me the most is they put a four-hour time cap on it. Most of these guys were doing it in 250. Oh, the marathon.

Yeah. That was crazy. My thing is, and the guy from Concept2 was talking about saying it was going to take them a lot longer. Yeah. What are we seeing developing as athletes here? I was talking to someone yesterday that, you know, the stuff, we're going to have teenagers doing what the Games champions are doing in the next five, ten years. A girl jerked. She's my cliented 220 this morning.

And I got tagged on Instagram and said, I bet you can't do this anymore. And I was like, probably not, actually, now that I think about it. She's 17 years old. The plan was actually, I work with her. It was 205, 215, 225 if she needs it. She looks around. 225 is on the bars next to her. She's like, eh, fuck it, 230.

And she nailed it. What's she going to do in like three years it 230 and she nailed it what's she gonna do and then she went to the b session like because it was part a part b and she won the part b by like a minute she's won the first five workouts and this is what i try to tell people at my gym i'm like it's never been done before because no one's worked out this much before yeah i mean this is the first time in history that people are working out this much to this volume at such a young age you know i remember growing up and it's like, don't start lifting weights until you're out of high school.

You're in college. You shouldn't lift weights. It's going to stunt your growth. You're going to get hurt. You're seeing these high school kids who are freak athletes. There was a kid last year, I think, that snatched like 285. Yeah. 17-year-old.

Who are you? Yeah. Where are you? Where do they grow you? But that's what I'm saying. What's he going to do when he's 25, 35? it's got a max out at some point right yeah i always thought that it was so weird that people would say you shouldn't work out and lift weights when you're younger but like doing gymnastics is totally fine yeah it's like dude all they do is fucking work out it's

the same thing yes they're short but they're short because those people just happen to be successful in gymnastics thank you the same the same way like football like being an offensive lineman doesn't make you taller you're not taller because you're a tight end you're a tight end because you're tall yeah you kind of rise to the challenge because you're that height yeah in whatever sport you're in with these people though you're seeing them and you're coaching them at a young age is there things that they they need to be doing and should be doing to ensure that in two years they're not completely broken because i know the completely broken road oh sure if they if they would like to follow my path it's going to be a very short one yeah it's volume management yeah you know it's you don't it shouldn't be am session crossfit pm session crossfit it's not like wad wad wad wad

wad for these kids it's not even that for adults either. But really for them, it's be careful to give them the minimum effective dose to where they need to go and then pull them back. And look at the things that are problematic for them and instead of rushing them ahead, really, really build a solid foundation. How long is the girl that just jerked 220? How long have you been working with her? I've been working with Haley since February. Right on.

So how is kind of that progression and i mean what when she's 17 what does that look like when you sit down with these people and you're like okay we've got a 10 year 15 year career where you're going to be lifting close to maximal lifts for a very long time so i'm not her head coach right her head coach is nick fowler from Brute Strength. What I do with her and all the athletes I work with is make sure that the loads that they're lifting, the movements that they're doing are appropriate for their biomechanics and their physiology. Because if a well-rounded program is only good if you're a round athlete, if you have

corners, a well-rounded program is going to screw you up. So for example, with her, the first thing we did is come in and look at the way she moves. She always got back pain when she deadlifted. Looked at it, she couldn't brace. She couldn't create any kind of hinge that was real. She would throw her chest up and then lift with her quads. So the first thing we did was just rebuild her. We took her down to 75 pounds on the deadlift and put time on it.

Yeah, and the changes have to happen pretty quick then. So fast. And she's also a really fast adapter. Yeah. Where are we starting to see some of the movement pieces break down and just kind of like general programming for stuff? We can talk about these athletes, but they're not normal human beings. Even at 17, she's not normal.

Some of the general structures that we're seeing in CrossFit gyms and that term CrossFit, but how can gym owners kind of – what is kind of the basis of your we're seeing in CrossFit gyms and that, that term CrossFit, but how, how can gym owners kind of, what is kind of the basis of your program before we start getting into even implementing this into gyms and programmings? Where's a little bit of your background and how you got into the active life RX piece? So I was a chiropractor. The long story short is I was a personal trainer.

Then I became a chiropractor because I wasn't confident. I wasn't happy. I was helping my clients. I wasn't solving problems. I was just making money. So became a chiropractor because I wasn't confident. I wasn't happy I was helping my clients. I wasn't solving problems. I was just making money. So I became a chiropractor, started treating patients, enjoyed it, and opened my own CrossFit affiliate. Started seeing that, oh, wow, this is a really fun population.

What year was that? 2011. Cool. OG. OG. I always have to ask the year because that's like a feeling of when you started it. Like, 2017. You're like, long road, long road long road not one of us yeah uh interview's over sorry no 2011 we we um you know and we had a gym that

was very competitive my business partner at the time was a really competitive athlete uh he captains two teams to the crossfit games in consecutive years that we home group you know everyone came through our foundations program. The problem with that became people who joined our gym joined our gym because it was like, this is where savages go to work out. So they wanted to get beaten to the ground all the time. It's cool when you're a gym owner and you're like, oh,

attractive people are coming in to work out. That guy's jacked. Look at how much weight he just lifted. And then you want to push him and go compete, compete, compete, compete. It's not ready yet. And it's also not sustainable. I followed followed that model i feel like that would be i think we all followed that model that's why we're all here to do that i was gonna say i feel like that'd be a really good tagline if you're in a big city and you're trying to like distinguish your gym from the other gyms like if your tagline was where savages go to work out there'd be a certain

segment of the population it's like fuck yeah that's my gym you're 100 right yeah we called ours the mecca of swole that just tells you where you're going yeah welcome home if you'd like to get large i wish i understood marketing better when i owned the gym because we could have used it but back then i had no idea but so it was just sustainable training people were getting hurt yeah it was okay well i'm a doctor i have a clinic attached to my gym and my members are getting hurt. That's not acceptable. Yeah. And I had people driving in like, you know,

Daniel Tominski was the first CrossFit Games athlete who came out to work with me. He was driving an hour to get treated. I'm like, okay, if I have this guy coming out to be seen by me, I got to do a better job with the people who are right under my fingers. Yeah. And they're right here. So we just kind of changed the whole way the gym ran. That messaging is kind of tough because you go from, for no better word,

the Mecca of Swole to, hey, let's get healthy and do this the right way. I lost 30% of my membership. Like that. You see that a lot more, but it's more widely accepted for people to do that now. It's like, hey, think about the health aspect and not about crushing workouts. Coach, I wanted to ask you about when we, you know, I've known you quite some time now. Yeah, man. And we both come from that East Coast and New Yorkers who just want to get after and push and push and push.

And we have these people who are doing two and three workouts a day. And they're all watts. When do you start to you know kind of implement that idea that should slow it down a little bit yeah so right away if they need to slow it down and i want to just make sure i follow up with we did get that 30 back just different people yeah um but like i'll use lindy barber for example i don't think she might be talking about it right i work with mayhem team and with lindy barber one of the big things we talk about is tough athletes make tough decisions they don't just work out hard in the gym and for

her when you're like when rich froning is on your team and i work with him too and he's like hey we got to do a thousand ball balls as a team today the ball doesn't touch the ground i'm like no you don't do it like you don't need to do that We're getting over a knee injury Okay And you get the respect But I have to earn it first It's impressive that People have gone on for years doing this But I think there are people like us

Who are kind of banged up at this point Yeah what separates You've worked with Rich now What separates that guy How is he still able to be in the top ten of the Open after probably ten years now? Work ethic. But doesn't he feel like shit? I mean, he's got aches and pains.

Doesn't he hate his life? He's got aches and pains. But, you know, much like Lindy, after the games last year, he had pretty severe injuries. And it was, okay, well, we're going to get you out of this. So from the day after the games until now, basically, I don't want to call it a check with me. He has me like, hey, Sean, is it cool if I do this? That doesn't happen.

But I provide him with the input of, hey, this is what I think would be smart for you to do. This is where I think you're really pushing the envelope of risk. Make the decision that you think makes the most sense for you. Because I don't need to tell him what to do all the time. I wrote him eight weeks of programming immediately following his problems after the games last year. I want to say I, my director of staff, talked to Ray Gorman. But, you know, we took care of him.

And now it's a trust factor. So could you give us an idea of what that program looks like? Because you know he's one of these guys who just wants to get after it every day. So are you giving him what he wants and also what he needs? No. In that case, we were just giving him what he needed. Because it was like, look, you have a choice. You can either have this be the last game that you ever competed in,

and you came in second, or you can go win next year. And he was like, I'll do whatever you say. Champions. They do things. Right way. Yeah. We started working online together, then went out to Cookville, worked with them in person. But the big thing was the mistake people make when they come back from injury.

And I'm sure you know about this all too well is they get hurt. They're hurt. They know they can't do anything. As soon as they feel like they're better, they're like, boom, let's do it. 30 muscles for time. One rep max squat clean. I want to see how much I lost. The problem with that is you haven't re-acclimated yourself to the volume necessary to

be able to handle that kind of work. So with someone like Rich, we took him down to 30% of what he was doing previously, which by the way is still more than most people do. But down to 30% in terms of loads, reps, sets, like we studied everything he did before that and took everything down to 30%. And then every two weeks or so, we increased it by about 30%. So after 10 weeks, he was back to doing everything he was doing before. Wow. But he didn't deviate at all, which was amazing. Separates him from the rest of the team.

That's mindset. That's the skill of mindset. Yeah. How are you quantifying that? Like, are you doing, like, linear progressions, so to speak, like with very similar workouts week by week and adding volume to those very similar workouts? Or is it totally different workouts and then somehow you're quantifying it a different way?

That's a good question. So that kind of goes to what Kenny was talking about, giving him what he wants with what he needs. We varied it up. But the idea was let's look at how many squat cycles we're doing in a week. Let's see how many pounds he's moving through those squat cycles. And it's much harder in CrossFit because of the variety of movements. Right. But the way I can explain it is if you look at, like, a runner,

if they went from 50 miles down to 10 miles, okay, now we're going to go to 13 miles. They want to take 30% of that, add it in, they're going to go to 17, right, whatever the math is on it. So with Rich, it's how many squat cycles, how many pounds, and we try to come up with a metric that makes sense and put it so with rich it's how many squad cycles how many pounds and we try to come up with a metric that makes sense and put it all together for it when do you do you even kind of think about drawing the line between like rehab and performance coach because you're talking volume and counting total poundage and like that's not a very rehab specific thing but you're working in the

performance world we're not in a rehab sense almost. People think of us as a rehab company, but I turn away about 35% of people who want to work with us. People will come and say, hey, I want you guys to coach me. I'm a disaster physically. I'm like, okay, well, let's talk about it. Everyone who wants to work with us has to talk with one of our staff members first, and we turn away over 35%. Because if they need rehab, like legit in-person rehab, we can't help them.

And the last thing we want is a bad review. So for us, if we're taking you on, it's because we know we can do the job. So we don't consider ourselves a rehab company. The tagline is get out of pain without going to the doctor or missing the gym. We don't want to be the doctor. I feel like also you guys are doing a really cool job of just kind of educating the public, like the assessment process that you guys have online that people can kind of walk through, like your website. It's like this hurts, point and click, and then it's able to kind of break down.

And you do it in your clinics as well. How are people assessing or how are coaches assessing their athletes? And just what is the education process and kind of what led to putting all of that stuff online to help people. So what led to it online was 1,000 Instagram messages a week asking, what do I do? That's a good one. I feel like there's some traction here. We have an idea. But the answer is always, I don't know.

And I feel bad saying that. And people are like, oh, he's just trying to make a buck. I'm like, I'm not trying to make a buck. I just don't know the answer. He sent me a DM and said, it hurts when you snatch. What is it? I don't know. We created the online assessment so somebody can go on

and they can take a look. You need a waiver for your direct message. Yeah, right? It's insane. In order for me to reply to this DM. Acknowledge that you know I might be wrong. We set up the online assessment to give them a very very simple it's not by any stretch of the imagination what our coaches would do with someone one-on-one but it's a simple way to say okay you know this is might be what's wrong with

me this program might work for me and then they end up either on our templates or working with us one-on-one yeah i think one of my biggest arguments too nowadays is modern medicine it's like if you get a surgery if you have something done in the hospital they're like all right don't do anything for the next six months yeah you know how when you have people come to you who are like well my doctor told me not to do this or my doctor told me never to do that it's what do you tell them well that's never happened no i'm kidding that's all done so we were talking this morning with christmas abbott her doctor told her since she's pregnant not to lift more than 20 pounds.

It's like, how? What if I fall on the ground and I need to do a push-up to get back up? Not allowed. Stay there. Someone has to pick you up. Push that clicker button. The reason why that's an issue is we all, as doctors, take an oath. The oath is do no harm.

But they never define harm. Nobody ever says, hey, harm is this person's livelihood is being physically active. So telling them they're not allowed to be physically active is going to inflict unnecessary emotional harm on them. Like for some people it's, hey, you know what? Yeah, I might exacerbate my condition, but I'd rather take the chance than sit on the couch and be sedentary. And that alone becomes problematic for them. And then it becomes the forbidden fruit and then they overdo it and then they get hurt so for us it's about what's the minimum threshold that we need to use to get you the response the response that you want let's do that and see

if we can get results that way and then amp up as we need to have you had any doctors call you up and be like what the hell are you telling my client yes doctors and and olympic lifting coaches we made a post one time that was, if you're a healthy person, you should be able to clean and jerk or snatch 70% of your one rep max cold. But don't try it. And this girl walked into her gym, and she posted, oh, Active Life RX said I should do 70% of my one rep max cold. So here it is.

And her coach fucking tore me up on a message. I was like, hey, I don't coach your your athlete i didn't tell her to do that if you read the post it said we don't actually recommend you trying it's just having the confidence to do it so yeah that stuff happens they uh the doc how is it even possible at this stage with the amount of information that's out there that people can come out and actually like believe this bullshit that doctors tell them of like don't do this like there's so much information and i mean there's you're not the only strength coach recovery doctor chiropractor that's that's in this space but we still find ourselves fighting this battle all the time it's a fear thing you know it's people i always say pain is an emotion.

I mean, I'm sure you guys, all three of you know this. Yeah. If all four of us were walking along and we tripped over the same thing and suffered the same injury, the four of us have a very different experience. For one of us, it's like, oh, this is normal. I skim my elbow all the time. Yeah. You know, I get concussions once a month.

No big deal. But for someone, it's like, oh, my God, call a doctor. I'm dizzy. It's like, yeah, all four of us are dizzy. We just banged our head on the concrete. It's cool. Get up and walk. But our emotions dictate the way that we respond to things. So if someone is not exposed to that kind of a stimulus, that kind of a pain, if you will, then they interpret it as a negative thing and they avoid it. Where we work with athletes all the time and say, we want you at a 1 to a 4 on a scale of 10 for your subjective pain threshold. Anything above that becomes maybe a little bit too much panic,

but if it's getting better rep to rep, we're going to keep doing it. If it's below a 4, we're going to keep doing it. If it doesn't hurt 24 hours later, we're going to keep doing it because pain is an emotion and we can't trust your emotions. So when we get, I've seen a lot of the seminars that you guys put on, and teaching this stuff in, like, a large group setting, it's not easy, mainly because of the subjectivity that goes into, like – or is it objectivity? Subjectivity?

Subjectivity. I had that right. Then to question myself. Oh, man, you're in your head. Get out of your head. See? Emotional. It's terrible. It's the headphones. Yeah, when you're in a – He gets a your head see emotional it's terrible um it's the

headphones yeah when you're in a concussion once a month yeah when you're when he's used to it it's a problem it doesn't hurt anymore no longer busy used to it constantly dizzy um how are you guys able to kind of get this message across to people and have them understand these like overarching principles of pain and and the way your body is supposed to be moving in such a large group setting in the well so in a workshop setting we're let me take that back in everything that we do we stay very vertical and what i mean by that is we don't cover a lot of variety of material people actually come to our workshops and often leave a little bit frustrated they give us a four out of five or a five out of five on our

how do we do scale but they're always, I wish I knew how to solve this problem. I'm like, with all due respect, you don't know how to find this problem yet. You've been doing it for a weekend. So what we do is we teach very, very simple concepts, and we go as deep as humanly possible on them so that when you leave, you're not an expert in everything that we do, but you're at least competent in this one thing that we do. And then we can teach you more over time. But, you know, it's actually been a business decision to grow slower and say, look, if you're not ready to take the time it takes to do this well, you're not for us because we don't want you out there with our name on you hurting people. I dig that. And you're also kind of getting into the programming of gyms, though.

Like, there's an affiliate model to this in which you're expanding in a manner. So we don't write CrossFit programming for anybody. But what we do is we'll audit a gym's programming and say, hey, you hinge five times to every one time that you squat. How many gym owners now, when you talk to about things like that, understand what you're talking about? We're back. Hope you had a blast listening to Dr. Sean Pastoose.

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You're going to save 20% on your first order. And back to the show. Dr. Sean Pastuch. How many gym owners now when you talk to about things like that understand what you're talking about? I'm talking to a skewed audience. They came to me already. So most. Gotcha.

Or they're at least coming and asking about what it is. Okay. But there are gym owners who will send me a random question. Hey, dude, this guy's got this problem in my gym. What do you think of this? I don't know. How often do you guys do this? What's his hinge to his squat? Hinge? It's scary to think. Where we're at in the education of this, it actually surprises me that the majority of people that you talk to know what that is. I feel like maybe five, six years ago, there was a very small population of people that you talk to know what that is. I feel like maybe five, six years ago,

there was a very small population of people that actually understood and had the language to be able to have a conversation like that. Well, you know, the interesting thing is a lot of people who come and talk to us actually will tell me in the message, I'm a little bit intimidated to ask this question. Maybe this is a stupid question. And I want people to know that there isn't a stupid question. You're not going to learn that material unless if you put yourself out there and ask somebody who knows the answer how to do it. You know, I'm not going to write somebody's aerobic capacity. I'll talk to Chris Hinshaw about that. Yeah.

And by the way, be like, go work with him. Yeah. I'm not going to do it. Totally. So I want those questions. What are you learning about in this in this process now like we've kind of you've got every joint kind of mastered on the website with programs attached to it and you're working with the highest level athletes like where do you go in kind of understanding programming from are you more

focused on the competitive athlete now that's operating at the games or is this an education platform in getting people to just understand movement and living pain-free. We can't focus on the competitive athlete and be successful. You don't want seven clients for the rest of your life? Right, yeah. That would be like Gatorade selling Gatorade to the bulls. You know, that doesn't work. But you use the exposure that the elite athletes who want your help can provide to let other people know, hey, this is happening.

And by the way, it's actually pretty cool. You're not the loser in the corner doing high pulls anymore. What I'm learning most right now is actually relationship stuff. I have a staff member who, my director of staff, Dr. Ray Gorman, left a Division I university as a physical therapist to work for me full time. And straight up, he's better than me at writing this programming. So I let him coach my staff. I coach him on the relationship building that my staff needs to understand,

so we bake that into our programs, and then I coach the whole staff on it overarchingly, and then I coach our one-on-one clients on personal development stuff, but he's the one who's really meticulous with the loading and the stuff you were talking about before, Doug, with Rich's program. That's why I brought him in to do it. There's such a degree of athlete nowadays. We have these high-level athletes, and now we have a lot of newer people moving into the fitness industry who, frankly, never have worked out before.

People who are going on Orange Theories and these F45s who are really out of shape, and they have them doing these 2,000-meter rows and 3,000-meter rows. Are you getting some of that newer clientele who you're like, maybe that's not the best workout for you. Maybe you should go to someone who understands this world a little bit better. We get all kinds of people, but the people who we're getting mostly are CrossFitters and baseball players. Baseball players. Really?

I pitched, so I relate to the idea of throwing. We've worked with a group called Top Velocity out of Louisiana. They've flown some professional pitchers out to us, and we've worked with them and gotten them back on the mound where everyone else was saying, surgery, we're going to shave down your clavicle. I'm like, no, no, no. Just file it down a little bit.

Yeah, we'll be ready in a couple weeks. But for them, it's like, well, what's the fastest way to get this guy back on the hill? Shave it down a little bit. Yeah, but we'll be ready in a couple weeks. We're just going to cut you open and patch that up. For them, it's like, well, what's the fastest way to get this guy back on the hill? Shave it down. I'm like, well, why do we need to shave it down? What's happening that's occurring that needs to have it shaved down? So I would say probably 80% is CrossFit, 15% is baseball, and the other 5% are runners and your normal variety of athletes.

It's a really interesting thing, though, because I always wonder when you go to those gyms, like, are they talking about movement or are they talking about sweat? Yeah. Sweat. I was just talking to you. I've never been to one. So have you heard of Fit Body Boot Camp? Yeah. So I was just talking to one of the biggest owners of Fit Body Boot Camp gyms in the country.

I think he has six gyms right now, and there's, like, 800 members per gym. Jesus. The business model is phenomenal. But, yeah. Bedros is fucking smashing it. Bedros is. I was at his

Empire Mastermind when I was meeting with this guy. Okay, right on. And he was like, I want to fly you out to California so you can teach

all of our staff members how to do these assessments because we do private assessments for gyms. And, you know, I was like, well, what do you guys do now?

And he said, you know, we have our basic modifications and stuff but i think we really need a system so i i can only speak for that that's my only real exposure outside of cross but crossfit doesn't have a system yeah so that's a that's another thing like so many coaches will just show up and do do the certification do the seminar but then they have to go back and implement this stuff into their program. That's really hard work because you're changing a culture and a vibe to the things that they're learning.

And that's a big shift. One of my favorite things to ask a room full of coaches to start a workshop is raise your hand if you've ever told someone to squat lower. Keep your hand up if you don't know why they weren't squatting lower in the first place. Yeah. Well, if that person had a torn labrum, you're the reason they need surgery now potentially so it's everything in my opinion should start with an assessment and there are gym owners out there who we work with who have 200 300 members and they're like i couldn't possibly assess everybody before the next workout yeah like no but your next workout is hinging can you see if they can touch the floor before they pull the ground a bar off of

it yeah simple well where where do we as coaches or gym owners or just programmers in general like Can you see if they can touch the floor before they pull the ground, a bar off of it? Simple. Well, where do we as coaches or gym owners or just programmers in general, where do we draw the line of I have to get this person to work out, and I also know that they can't do it? So what we design is what we call a red light, yellow light, green light system. Red light is genius. We thought of the colors all by ourselves. We thought of what they mean. Should put them on streets or something.

Except in this one, red means go. It's not unlike Gray Cook's functional movement screen. If they're painful and limited in the range of motion, we're not going to load that. If they're limited in the range of motion or uncomfortable on a scale of one to four, use your best judgment. Did they hinge yesterday too? Is it necessary today? What's the person's goal?

Rich Froning? We're going to go. He can do whatever he wants. We're going to go. But Vicky in the gym? No, we're not. Vicky. Not with Vicky.

Vicky. There's a Vicky in every gym. We all know Vicky. But that's why really you asked what I'm really learning on. It's the emotional stuff. It's the relationship stuff because it's how do you have that conversation with the client. I've been stopped by a few of our clients here who I don't even work with who were like, I signed up and immediately had buyer's remorse.

I was like, did I make a huge mistake? And then your coach contacted me, and the way they spoke to me made me so so comfortable and now i'm trying to get all my friends to sign up see this stuff is so hard i think in in there has to you know you're you're kind of leading the charge in this but it's really challenging in a group scenario because you've got a coach that's making 20 bucks an hour and they don't know they may have even just taken the course but now the thing you're learning about is relationships and they may see what's going on but how do they start the communication process how do you pull somebody aside because what you're really trying to get at is small group training not large group training or personal training which is now we get into even larger problems for the coach and their communication

versus just are they doing the right thing everybody wants to do the right thing but they may have the tools but how do, in each of those scenarios, how do you really personalize that for people in, there may be 30 people in a class. Yeah, so it all comes down to the intent. If you come to my workshop, and then you go home and you're like, Anders, dude, I need you in the gym at 2 o'clock today.

We're going to fix that deadlift of yours because I went to a workshop and I know what's wrong. So you've got to be here at 2 o'clock. That's my only free time. You're like, fuck you, man. You went to a workshop and I know what's wrong. So you've got to be here at 2 o'clock. That's my only free time. You're like, fuck you, man. You went to a weekend workshop. Now you're a genius. I should open a CrossFit gym.

Right. But if the same coach comes back and he's like, hey, Anders, I was at a workshop this weekend, and they kept on showing us these assessments, and all I could think about was how much pain you have when you hinge. And they showed us this stuff that I think would be helpful to get you to feel better when you do it. Do you have any time this week that you would mind setting aside for me to

evaluate you to see if I can help? See, now you're in business development. You're not even in rehab anymore. It's a level of give a shit. I think it's a level of care. But the thing is this, right? It doesn't matter how good you are if no one likes you. Totally.

I used to be the guy who was like, oh. I know everything. It wasn't even that. It was, you don't like me? Go fuck yourself. And that didn't work. Was that New York that got mad? Dang, that was northeast right there.

That's how I know him. That's when I was five years. I don't know what we've talked about for the first half hour. That's the guy I know. Soulmates over here. Best friends from day one. That's a guy I know. Soulmates over here. Best friends from day one. That's a long island. But that didn't work.

That's not going to grow a business. And it's not going to get people to like you and to be fans and to really want to buy into what you're doing. At the end of the day, if you want to help the world with your methodology, you need people to like you. Yeah. What are some of the best models that you have seen all these kind of ideas implemented into that group setting?

Because a lot of the CrossFit gyms, even as an ex-owner of a CrossFit gym, I find that it would be very hard to kind of incorporate this stuff into programs. So simple stuff, right? You don't just start off right away being like, okay, reach down and touch the ground. Can't touch the floor. You, you, and you, you're not deadlifting today. It's like, what? You've been deadlifting for five years with no problem, problem dude yeah i'm gonna deadlift and you're an asshole

yeah so it's it's it's coming in and educating people that this is the intent of today's workout here's what we're trying to achieve if you have any difficulty doing this movement we anticipate that you might feel some un you know unwelcome stimulus in the following areas. We'd rather you pull from the blocks today, and then we're going to talk about how we can improve that range of motion over time. And you might go over to a person individually. You know, hey, Anders, man, I know you love to throw down with all the guys. How are you feeling today?

I feel good. No issues with your low back? No issues with your hamstrings? No, I'm good. All right. You slept well last night? Yes. Have at it.

Yeah. But, you know, people walk into the gym all the time, and I'm sure you've all seen this. So stressed. Didn't sleep at all last night. My kids kept me up. My boss is an asshole. I'm on like two hours and, you know, three caffeine pills. I got to do this heavy frant to burn off some stress.

Showed up five minutes late to class. Dude, you're going to get hurt. You're going to get hurt. Yeah. And the coaches need to establish a relationship that they can say that to somebody. Do you live your life just pain-free? No. You've got nagging things going on? No, I just don't care enough about my performance to push myself there.

Yeah. You know, I work out. I mean, I worked out the other day with the demo team. We all just happened to walk into a gym together. The reason I have to know is because before we started, Kenny was making fun of your training. That's how we started. I got to start. I'm just going to lay into him for an hour.

So we got to get the important stuff out of the way so he can have at it. Go for it. I mean, you know, I train high-intensity CrossFit-style programming two to three times a week. The other two to three times a week, bodybuilding or moving. This bodybuilding thing everybody eventually gets there it seems everyone wants to look good naked that's why we got into this well i i just think we're just seeing everything circle back around you know i think i mean hit style training has been around forever it just hasn't been you know has evolved because

there was no figurehead like arnold brought bodybuilding to the masses yeah and you know when i would start to do it in my gym everybody everybody's like, why are you doing bodybuilding? But it kind of slows it down. Is there an age group or is there a point in our lives where you're like, okay, you shouldn't do as many Metcons? Because I find myself, it's like, I'll do maybe two, maybe three a week, but I like to do the bodybuilding, maybe even some powerlifting stuff to supplement. Just as long as I'm moving, I feel good. I really think it's emotional maturity, not an age. Yeah.

You know, because it's, I need that feeling. It's like, well, let's talk about your first problem. Yeah. You need that feeling. You know, so it's, what people forget is that CrossFit and this style of exercise was used and is used to train for other sports and for other methodologies. Military, football, and I know football fans are going to be like, the Broncos don't do this. I get it.

But high-intensity interval training, if you will, with weight, is meant to be a piece of the puzzle to get an athlete on the field or a soldier in the field. We're doing it as the sport. And it's important to remember that sports are inherently unsafe. No one plays football to get healthy. You play football to smash heads and get chicks. I agree.

Just being honest over here. I remember watching an interview where Ray Lewis, they asked him, it was like all the normal questions he would ask, some of the basic interview questions, and then they were like, what do you think about when you hit somebody? And you could feel the room get

cold, and he was like, I hit them to take their soul, and I was like, I don't want to play in the NFL. I'm out. I don't know if I'm built for that. Yeah, sport, when you take anything, like we joke about it all the time, weightlifting is totally healthy for you until you decide to compete in it. Yeah.

And then you're hitting 90% every day. And it's brutal. And so is running. You know, people get hurt running all the time. I talk to elite level strength and conditioning coaches in the major leagues, and I'm like, your pitchers need to press overhead. They need to be strong overhead. They're going to be overhead at maximum effort 90 to 100 times a day. They're like, no, they don't need to be strong up there.

We've never done it. I'm like, sorry, but I disagree with you. There are better and worse ways to go about doing that, but you're recommending only the better ways. So the follow-up is, do you run them? every all our pictures need to run like do you know that incidences of injury and running is higher than almost any anything else yeah yeah well i i have it's not their shoulder though cool i probably have 10 to 15 members a year who are like hey i'm doing the marathon for the first time i got got a program. I'm running five days a week.

I go, the sheer volume of three days a week is too much. You don't need to be running that much. No, it says I have to. I'm like, okay, let me know if you even make it to the marathon because if you're running that much. That goes back to what we were talking about earlier when we brought Rich back from his procedures after the games last year. Let's get him back to what we call an acute load,

where four weeks in a row it's like, okay, I can handle this low level of threshold and then add 30% every two weeks there afterwards if he's symptom-free. Running is the same. If you're going from couch to marathon, you need to start at a very, very low amount of load to be able to handle it and then build it up. 100%, yeah. And they're like, I don't know why my knees bother me.

I'm like, well, you went from never running a race in your life to training for a marathon. A lot of those running programs, too, they're doing, like, linear progression, but miles at a time. Yeah. One today, two tomorrow. Like, we just doubled that. Right.

For the next day. Like, I don't, that can't be good. Maybe, like, 1,700 meters tomorrow. Squat 135 today and 225 tomorrow. That can't be good. Maybe like 1,700 meters tomorrow. Squat 135 today and 225 tomorrow. A lot of those programs will cut out lifting altogether. They don't have any of it because they don't want to get tight. They're like, oh, I'm going to hurt myself lifting. I'm like, eh, that's a good way to look at it.

That's one way to look at it. That's a funny thing to say say i don't want to get tight that's a very old school i know you don't believe that but like that's that's an old school thing to believe where lifting weights like makes you bound up or tight or what have you but like every like even 20 30 years ago people still were watching the olympics and they're watching gymnasts who are like some of the strongest athletes in the world but they're also the most flexible athletes same thing with weightlifting some of the strongest athletes in the world, but they're also the most flexible athletes. Same thing with weightlifting. Some of the strongest athletes in the world,

and they're some of the most flexible athletes in the world, but still that, I hesitate to call it an understanding, but that belief persists. Yeah, because people think that they can, they misunderstand what happens to muscle when they build strength through it. They're like, no, no, no, no. If I build stronger muscle, it's not going to lengthen.

I worked on Christine Kohlbrenner from 417 yesterday, and it was reached down and touched the ground, palms on the floor, and today she snatched like 205, I think, and like nothing in four minutes. That's a lot of weight. That's a lot of weight. It's impressive. She's a strong girl. Every time I come out here, I'm just like, these guys get more and more freaks.

And the girls are like, the strict press. I'm like, these girls are pressing almost 200 pounds. When they started this thing like 11, 12 years ago, I think it was 11, 2008, something like that. I think it was 11. I think the total amount of work that had to be done was like eight minutes. Really? Yeah, like the three events in day one,

the best athletes were doing all of them in like under three minutes. And then it was like CrossFit total and something else on the second day. Like you could work for ten minutes and that was it. Now it's probably like seven hours. It's a lot. Well, it is now with the row. Yeah, that marathon row. Did you do the half marathon a couple years ago?

No. I did. How'd you do? I don't remember the time, but I started it wearing something similar to what I have on and ended with just the spandex and no shoes, no socks, no shirt. Took the shorts off because it was like I was just soaked. Your ass was soaked.

And there was like a river going through. It was so brutal. So you have spandex on underneath that right now? Some sort of, yeah. Maybe if we get hot back here, I'll take them off. Perfect. You never know. Going back to the tight thing you were talking about, Doug,

I always ask people who say, like, I'm tight. Tight is like pain. It's an emotion. I ask them, grab your finger and pull back as far as you can. Does it feel tight? Like, yes. Good. It's supposed to.

When you reach your end range, it's supposed to feel tight. The question is, does it feel tight before you reach your end range? You know, are you limited in your range of motion, or do you just feel tight at the end of what's normal? And then we can actually start solving problems instead of just stretching stuff that doesn't need to be stretched and smashing stuff that doesn't need to be smashed. Seminars. Yeah. You're traveling.

You just sold your gym. That was in January. That's pretty awesome. Awesome. You're breathing well. Yeah. Gym and clinic. And, you know, the first week, it's like you wake up and you're like, what am I supposed to do?

Yeah. But then I figured that out pretty quick. It was like, oh, work. I got a lot of shit to do. It was like a week in there where you're like, oh, there's not much. It's just because you haven't made yourself busy enough yet. Exactly. Where are the seminar stops and what do these seminars look like?

So the seminars are all movement assessment. We teach a little bit about correction but it's refining the eye. So our next workshop is going to be September 29th and 30th at Red Wolf CrossFit Huntington Beach, California. And then we have November 17th and 18th at Behemoth CrossFit with Asia Bardo.

Cool. Everybody likes him. Shout out to him, dude. He's like one of my favorites in the beginning. He's the only guy who's over six feet tall. I'm like, I got a shot. I can do this. When does this air? I don't know.

We're pretty flexible. Yeah. Whatever you want. Okay. Look at that. Come on, Barbell Shrug. You call the shots. The IP treatment.

As long as it's after Monday of next week. So we're about to announce that we're doing a Mayhem workshop as well. November 10th and 11th. Very cool. Cool. You've spent some time down there with those guys, that whole team. Oh, you want to talk about peer pressure to work out? Yeah, I definitely want to.

Well, just like they have created a place down there that seems to be just breeding the highest level athletes. And they've figured out what it takes, not just on the programming side, which is the culture of what's going on. There's very little to do with the program and everything to do with the culture. They are professional. They go to work.

I got there and the first morning we go to the gym, we start working out. We work on some strength stuff, do a little work, like a Metcon. Then Rich comes in, I start working with him. We work another workout with the team. Let's go get some him. We work another workout with the team. Let's go get some lunch. We come back, work out again.

Then he's like, all right, the gym is going to start getting packed with members. Let's go back to the barn. We go to the barn. I'm like, he's like, what do you want to do? I'm like, go to sleep. He's like, no, no, pick a workout. I'm like, let's bench press. We haven't bench pressed.

Let's just get jacked and, you know, go home. So they write up this workout that's five by fivex5 bench and sandbag over the shoulder at 150. Then 8x4 bench, sandbag over the shoulder at 150. Then 10x3 bench, sandbag over the shoulder at 150. And the bench press was 225, 205, 185. I'm like, cool, I'm going to go 185, 155, 135 on the bench. And I'm like, Rich, I don't know if I can do that sandbag over the shoulder like that. Like I weigh 155. He's like, he looks at me, he goes, you'll be all right. And I'm like, Rich, I don't know if I can do that sandbag over the shoulder like that. I weigh 155.

He looks at me. He goes, you'll be all right. And just walks away. Fuck. I guess I got to do it. I guess I'm doing it. So I did it. But then the next day, I wake up and I'm like, we're obviously going to ease into the day.

He's like, yeah, meet us at the pool at 7 a.m. We start a swim workout like a half an hour in. I'm like, all right, that was good. What's next? He's like, another hour and a half of this yeah i feel like they have a rule down there it's like if you're on instagram you have to be on an assault air bike just doing some like low level conditioning if you're gonna talk to somebody and have a conversation you better be on a rower it's crazy okay i mean because after that it was okay 16 piece of chick-fil-a and then we're gonna

go back to the gym and he rode up 50 40 30 20 10 with a partner muscle ups oh with handstand walking 100 feet in between each round yeah 2k row where your partner holds 100 pound dumbbells yeah and he's like you doing this no i'm out tap now um we are and we'll call this the vip booth at the fit aid fan experience at the crossfit games um And we're about to get kicked out because the fan experience is about to get really boozed up. We're on the bar right now. The bartenders are looking at us like, get out of here.

So where can people find you and tell us all the things? ActiveLifeRx.com is our website. ActiveLifeRx on Instagram and Sean Pastucho on Instagram. They can look for me. You guys have a blog still?

That was Cleary's blog. Our media guy. He ran his own blog. We're talking about doing a blog and a bunch of other stuff because we have all kinds of fun stuff that we're rolling out. Yeah. Personal development programs for coaches and entrepreneurs. Beautiful. And our immersion program. We teach people how to do what we do for 12 weeks with our director of staff.

And we teach them how to monetize it. So we'll see. Awesome. I've been trying to talk to me to monetize it. So we'll see. Awesome. I've been trying to talk him into following me around the camera. Very cool. First time co-hosting Barbell Shrug, sir. This was an honor. You crushed it.

Fan of the show. Thank you very much. And, Coach, it's great to finally catch up with you. Yeah, man. I haven't seen you in forever. He's a big shot now. He lives out on the island. He's got some fantasy.

He says it like I moved to the island, like I moved to the suburbs. I grew up in Long Island. He's out there sitting on his back. It's tough when Rich is calling you to come hang out. He doesn't call. He texts. I'm on the beach. Come to me.

Living the dream. Come to me. He is in the nicest part of Long Island. Next to Montauk. That's way too far. Just come out. Let me live vicariously for one night. Done.

Let's go. I'm in. Cool. I love my wife, by the way, so she hears that. Two and a half kids. You've got another one on the way. Right. Congratulations.

Thank you. Thanks. We now know how that happens. Yeah. For sure. Finally found out. Yeah. A couple mistakes here and there.

Where can people find you, dude? Oh, at Kenny Santucci. Very easy. And then at Solace New York if you're ever in Manhattan, not on Long Island. Come on. We need a New York trip. We've got all the people to hang out with. Buddy, let's do it.

Let's do it. Let's bring the band back together. I love it. In Manhattan. Let's do it. I'm in. I'd love to. Yeah.

Doug. You bet. You can find me on Instagram at Douglas E. Larson. Also, I've got a fun side project. I put a bunch of online courses, all fitness-related, of course, on DougLarsonFitness.com. Rad. Thank you to FitAid for putting us up at the CrossFit Games this week.

It is freaking banging out here. You guys have an awesome booth. Putting us in touch with Kenny. And awesome weekend. Make sure you get into the Shrug Collective, at Shrug Collective on all the things. Five plus podcasts a week. Four YouTube shows going out weekly.

Things blowing up. And it's a lot of fun. If you want to come hang out with me, I'm at Anders Varner. Get into iTunes, YouTube, like, share, subscribe, do all the things. Leave a nice comment. See you guys on Wednesday. What an awesome show. Thank you for hanging out with Dr. Sean Pastuch and I from Active Life RX.

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