Barbell Shrugged - Why You're Not Jacked: The Power of Enzymes w/ Bioptimizers - Real Chalk #58

Episode Date: January 15, 2019

Wade and Matt started their company after enzymes radically changed their lives. They knew the knowledge they were paying $1500 a month to obtain was too great to keep to themselves, so they found a way to spread it to the masses. The result is BiOptimizers: scientifically-backed enzyme supplements that flip the conventional understanding of "health" upside down.   We sit down to talk about our eating styles, our histories in the health and fitness sphere, a lot of nerdy sh*t about how enzymes work and your gut probably doesn’t, why so many people have adverse reactions to gluten and lactose, and how to eat a dozen Sidecar doughnuts in a sitting without dying. You might think you know some stuff about gut health, but these guys are here to break it down (pun intended) for you in ways that are easy to understand and a blast to listen to. Enjoy the ride!   1:00 🍩 What is an enzyme, and what does it do 2:45 🍩 Canola oil and heroin in the same sentence 5:00 🍩 Why the energy we ingest isn’t immediately accessible 7:20 🍩 Amino acids and the recovery process 9:15 🍩 100 grams of protein is...too much? 10:00 🍩 Ryan’s childhood diet staples 12:00 🍩 Wade’s story: Mr. Olympia to Mr. Marshmallow 16:30 🍩Why you need supplements to be your healthiest 17:20 🍩 Hydrochloric acid matters 20:20 🍩 The real advantage of intermittent fasting 21:30 🍩 Your commercial probiotic is a scam 27:30 🍩Milk really IS a bad choice 29:30 🍩 Gluten is a baseball, no wonder your body can’t digest it 31:15 🍩 Cronuts will change your life, and other fun donut facts 33:30 🍩 How to build muscle and burn fat at the same time, sort of 37:00 🍩 The most bang for your 1500 bucks: how BiOptimizers got started 38:30 🍩 How much protein do you really absorb from powder? 40:40 🍩 Things you didn’t want to know about “USDA certified organic” and gastrointestinal disease, and things you really do want to know about conditions enzymes can reverse 41:45 🍩 How CrossFit ruined women 44:00 🍩 Poop and your microbiome 48:00 🍩 Charles Poliquin, ethnicity and food responses, and epigenetics 51:50 🍩 What your blood work says about your diet 56:15 🍩 The alcohol hack you shouldn’t know 58:00 🍩 Did you know enzymes warp time? 58:50 🍩 The Batman enema (yep, you read that right) 1:01:20 🍩 Three things to do for better performance 1:02:30 🍩 Why a boring diet is the best diet 1:06:30 🍩 Discount code! And some guarantees. Because this stuff is legit. 1:08:00 🍩 Health is a spectrum. Don’t be dead. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please Support Our Sponsor: @bioptimizers: www.BiOptimizers.com/realchalk  “realchalk” to save 37%   ► Subscribe to Shrugged Collective's Channel Here http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Shrugged Collective is a network of fitness, health and performance shows that help people achieve their physical and mental health goals.  Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first Barbell Shrugged podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast. Find Shrugged Collective and their flagship show Barbell Shrugged here: SUBSCRIBE ON ITUNES ► http://bit.ly/ShruggedCollectiveiTunes WEBSITE ► https://www.ShruggedCollective.com INSTAGRAM ► https://instagram.com/shruggedcollective FACEBOOK ► https://facebook.com/ barbellshruggedpodcast TWITTER ► http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged

Unique New York. Unique New York. Oh, am I on the air? What's up everybody? I am just getting my vocal cords warmed up so that you guys can listen to one of the greatest episodes of all time. Why is it the greatest episode of all time? Because we get to learn about some things that we probably don't know a whole bunch about. So I never really knew a whole ton about enzymes and how that functioned in your gut and how it broke down into how much protein you're really going to absorb and the different types of enzymes that help us absorb different macronutrients. So for this particular episode, I get to sit down with the founders of BioOptimizer. They happen to be a sponsor of the show. And not only are they incredibly knowledgeable on the subject of enzymes, but they live and

breathe the lifestyle as well, which is really interesting. So some of these guys are absorbing, well, not absorbing, they are eating less than 100 grams of protein a day and getting the same benefits as some of us who eat like two, three, 400 grams of protein a day. And the reason that this is even remotely possible is because of the absorption rate with the use of some of the supplements that they're putting out. Now, through studies, we found out that 80% or more of these enzymes and probiotics that you're getting from different companies are dead and when i say dead i mean that they're just really not working and it's really not worth your time to really buy them um there's a lot of studies on these guys products and the stuff

that they're claiming is super legit and i've been using it myself and some of the other guys on the shrug collective and it really does make all the difference i like can legitimately feel after a huge meal that i would normally be like really really bloated in my stomach not because there's too much protein in there or whatever i ate had a specific effect but there's just like something about the amount of food that i eat that i usually can't work out for at least an hour, hour and a half because of something that's kind of going on in my gut. Now, when I have the pills that they have, specifically the Masszymes one, that's the one I've been using, I take those and I can literally work out within 30 minutes. And it's

no issue. So there definitely is something to be said about these products. And not only that, it's just an amazing supplement to be adding to your repertoire of supplements. I mean, this is kind of be like the holy grail of all the supplements that you guys are taking, because in reality, protein is like our number one priority. So whether you're getting it from food or supplements, that is your number one priority. So for you to absorb more of that protein is your absolute goal as an athlete or a bodybuilder or a weekend warrior who wants to look good. Absorbing as much of that protein as possible is really going to be the most beneficial thing for you. So these guys over at BioOptimizers also offer a 365-day full money-back guarantee on all of their products. So if you do have the urge to try something, I would highly recommend them. And if you get some sort of weird effect from something, I shouldn't say weird, but if you're not getting what you want,

let's say you accidentally got the wrong product. You're like, ah, this was okay. I think that this was probably the product that I should have got. They will actually refund you and give you the new product for free, which is really, really cool. They have such an interesting customer service kind of a deal going on. So their customer service is their number one thing. They prize themselves in that, and I think that's really, really, really cool. So you will absolutely get exactly what it is that you're looking for with their products. So you guys can go over to biooptimizers.com.

It's B-I-O-P-T-I-M-I-Z-E-R-S.com. And if you put in code CHALK20, all capitals, C-H-A-L-K 20, you'll get 20% off any of the things that they have in their store. The only other, not the only other product, but the two products that I take, these are the only two that I take, is the Masszymes one and the Gluten Guardian. So what I like about the Gluten Guardian is it is the ultimate thing to take when you're going to have the ultimate cheat day. So I've had some ridiculous cheat days that consist of lots of cheesecake and lots of pizza. And you take the Gluten Guardian and it takes away emotional stress as far and as well as gut

stress as well for me personally. Just think of it as Gluten Guardian is your cheat day and your mass science is going to help you absorb more protein than anything else out there. And we're going to go over exactly why that is in this episode that is going to be coming at you in the next minute or two. Before we get into the episode as well, I would just like to tell you guys that the high intensity interval bodybuilding craze that I've been creating and building over the last couple of years has been just absolutely exploding. So if you guys ever want to check out any of the programs that I've been building out and seeing some of the before and after photos of some of these people who've been doing them, it's absolutely amazing. I have some examples up on the website as

well. And you guys can follow my Instagram, Ryan Fish, R-Y-A-N-F-I-S-C-H and see a lot of the stuff I've been putting out. All you have to do is check the highlights on my bio and you can go under eBooks and see a lot of the stuff I've been putting out. If you go to CrossFitChalk.com, click shop in the top right corner, and then it'll bring you straight to my Shopify website. And then you can see all the books that I have out. I also am doing some nutrition challenges here and there. I've finally gotten all of the information that I'd like to take out of my brain and put on paper as far as my diet goes and the way that I do carb cycling. So that is on there as well as a challenge. And I'm going

to be doing these challenge probably every two months if you guys want to get in on one of those and you can just see when I market that. As far as everything else on the website, my eBooks, you guys can get 25% off by being a Real Chalk listener. And it's just capitals, all capitals, Real Chalk, R-E-A-L-C-H-A-L-K at checkout and you'll get 25% off any of my eBooks in there. All right. All right. So without any further ado, let's get into this episode. We are going to dive deep. I did a lot of research before I talked to these guys. And this is going to be some serious geeking out. And your brain is going to grow whether you like it or not. So here we go. All right, Chalk Nation, it's Tuesday, which means it's time for another episode of Real Chalk.

Sitting here with Matt and Wade. They own a company called BioOptimizers. Almost got that biohack type of feel to it, but they also optimize. Why not? Yeah. I like it. In the world of biohacking, I feel like this is such a good, sweet topic. And personally, I know a lot about diet and exercise and this entire world of fitness. It's been my life forever. But I don't know, sadly, a whole bunch about enzymes.

So I think a lot of the world probably doesn't know a lot about enzymes either. Even when I was like into bodybuilding and stuff before I did CrossFit and competed, I don't think I had ever heard anyone tell me to take an enzyme supplement. And maybe it's just because, you know, every couple of years the world gets smarter about things. And that's totally fine but um i really would like to start asking you guys different questions about what enzymes are maybe we'll start with that what exactly is an enzyme well an enzyme is first off there's about 25 000 different enzymatic processes in the body that they know of probably more than that basically it Basically, it's a catalyst that speeds up chemical reactions inside of the body.

And they're required from everything from thinking to blinking. So everything in your body requires an enzymatic reaction. And the speed and the volume of chemical reactions that you can make in life are determined on what's called an enzyme bank account. In other words, what's the total pool or your enzymatic capacity inside the body and one of the reasons that we tend to degenerate as we age and the theory goes which was founded by a guy by the name of dr howell has a lot of evidence to suggest he's correct right around after 40 right this starts to happen well it starts to happen but at 40 seems to be the major drop-off when it comes to string, I would argue that it probably happens around 28.

And I can get into why that is. That's like more hormonal. Well, actually, if you look at why does hormones downregulate? So let's look at the mechanism behind that is why is hormones downregulating or why do they regulate down earlier in some people and later in others? Why do people run into decline? And part of that's lifestyle, part of that's diet, part of that's genetics. But behind all of this is enzymatic reactions and your ability to make chemical transactions inside the body.

And Dr. Howell believed that you had an enzyme bank account and as that diminishes you start to down regulate the least most the less important components of life and so in the world as you get older it's it's decreasing correct correct okay correct and we're the only species that doesn't eat an enzyme rich diet i'm just making sure you didn't mean like it was going down through like activity or like food or anything like that. Well, that can be an influential factor. For example, if you take someone who's doing, you know, eating canola oil every day and doing heroin or crystal meth or something. Canola oil and heroin in the same sentence. I love that. Yeah.

I actually had a whole podcast on literally almost just canola oil and how much I hate it. Yeah, they used to call it rapeseed. I mean, they call it canola oil now, but that's what it was called. Rapeseed is still out there too, though. Yeah, that's what it was called rapeseed out there too though yeah that's what it was called you know so they that didn't sell very well mind rate call it yeah we're gonna call it yeah exactly so you look at any agent that becomes difficult to digest or something that interrupts or impairs the normal functionality of your body oftentimes there's a chemical reaction that's being affected and that's going to affect the amount of enzymes that you have resourced for any one of these

25,000 chemical reactions that are going on in your body at any given moment. Are you raising your hand? Yeah, that's how we do podcasts together. But yeah, basically when you eat cooked food, when the food is heated past 114 degrees Fahrenheit, all the enzymes get killed. So that means you have to utilize your body's enzymes to break down that food. What was that degree? 114, which is very low. Super low.

Super low. So you're telling me that people are just crushing their enzymes in their food pretty much for everything. Yeah, all the time. So the theory with the enzyme bank account is when you have to digest cooked food, which is 99% of the time for most people, or when you have stress or when you get sick. So when your body gets sick, the reason it increases its body's temperature is because every degree doubles enzymatic function. So your body wants all your enzymes to start repairing and cleaning and trying to fight off the infections. So all of these things drain

our enzymatic bank accounts. Oh, wow, that's super interesting. Yeah, and humans, by body weight, have a pancreas that is four to four and a half times larger than any other species. And, you know, enzymes are manufactured in the liver stored in the pancreas. But because every other species eats its food cooked,

our body now has to try to manufacture it. So that's the other argument. Well, our body makes that. Yes, that's true. But what's the cost? And I always say it's the turkey dinner syndrome. And so people have gone to Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner or whatever. They have the turkey.

They have the two servings, the three servings. You know, grandma breaks out the pumpkin pie or whatever, and you eat that. And then everybody's, what, making a dive in the living room for the couch and the sofa, and Uncle Larry's drooling down his face and all that sort of stuff. Now, considering that, you've just taken in a massive amount of energy, and it's a massive amount of building blocks. Why aren't you going out and running a marathon or having a two-hour workout after that it's because your ability to digest absorb and utilize that food is directly determined by the enzyme capacity that you have and as we get older we find that that becomes more and more

compromised and then you see this turning out with why do you see very few high performance athletes past 35 and people go well it's hormone regulation yeah but why you know or they get injured more but why or they can't recover as fast but why and i think a lot of it can be traced down to enzymatic pathways and we've got a lot of evidence to support that so what kind of evidence do you have actually to support that? You want to talk about the... Yeah, like an athlete per se? Well, I'll give you an example, and then he'll back up some research. So if you look at...

I like NFL football, for example. It's a great sport. It's extremely violent, requires a lot of strength and power. And probably the position that requires the most amount of strength, power, speed, and recovery is the running back. And almost, other than what, Adrian Peterson and maybe John Riggins or something like that, there's almost nobody that is able to maintain performance after 28 years old. And if you correlate to the downregulation of proteolytic enzymes in athletes, guess what? It starts to shut down around 28 years old.

And because recovery is such a big aspect of that sport when you're taking so much damage and require so much power. And in my own life, I was able to extend my career at a higher level once I discovered that, you know, competing at the Mr. Universe and then the Natural Olympia

and all that stuff on a vegetarian diet. And I was able to do that. I that. I want to get into that too. I found a way out of it after I screwed up. You screw up first and then you go, I've got to find a better way. I want to come back to your career when I talk about protein and how much protein plays a role. Let's go there and we'll talk about recovery. Of course, we all know protein is important, but that's not really accurate. What's important is amino acids.

Which comes from protein now. It does, but you cannot break down protein into amino acids without proteolytic enzymes. So you can be eating 400 grams of protein a day, but you might only have 100 grams going to your body. So we're kind of on the opposite end where I'm keto, he's vegetarian. We're both eating about 100 grams a day, but, you know, we're 200 plus pounds. And it's because we're turning, you know, for the lack of a better metaphor, one gram of protein into like four compared to the average person because of the proteolytic enzymes. But I've got a lot of research I can share as far as recovery and proteolytic enzymes.

Yeah, let's check this out. And again, it's specifically proteolytic enzymes, which is the ones that break down protein. So one of them was they looked at sprains and strains and the recovery went from eight weeks of inactivity to two. Oh, I've heard about this. And people's like black eyes from like 10 days to like two days. Exactly. It was actually like 14 days to three days. One of them was they looked at karate fighters and hematomas went from 16 days to six.

Swelling went from 10 to four. Restriction of movement from 13 to five. Inflammation from 11 days to four. Unfit for training from 10 days to four. Um, so we know that in, why is that? It's because of the aminos. It's because your body's able to get the aminos from whether it's plant food diet or from steaks and pork and lamb, which is what I eat. All right. So now we talked about protein and now everyone who's listening to this podcast which is 85 male is like i want to know about the protein they just skipped right over it so um you guys

are talking about eating 100 grams of protein a day and turning that into four basically and i very rarely do i like that's a big day in wade's world at 100 you know i probably most days it's 50 or 60 and when i was, I averaged about 85. Okay. So what's the rest of your diet look like? Just a lot of fats. And well, actually for you, it's a lot of fats. It's a lot of fats.

For you, it's probably, you probably have a higher carb, I assume. Yeah. I'm a carb guy. Okay. Yeah. Personally, I just can't. Every time I do the carbs, I'm soft instantly. I could feel it instantly i'm like

this sucks and then i and i i've given it like yeah 30 days i give it like 60 days i'm just like nope it's not for me i even feel weird you know i even actually have that gut feeling of like it's telling me like stop like this is not for you yeah and generally that's i would suspect i always believe that people will make dietary choices or will gravitate towards different diets based on a couple factors number one what is the enzymatic pathways that they're running number two what was their diet like as a childhood their microbiome and also maybe genetic predispositions the environment they grew up in stuff and then uh you know what if your baby diet was like i literally i think for 13 years of my life the only thing i ate was fruit snacks

and spaghetti. What about Pop-Tarts and Kraft? Yeah. What I found very interesting is a lot of people who had high sugar diets as kids gravitate towards keto later on in life. And I believe they blow out the amylase pathway, which digests carbohydrates. And then also the microbiome starts to cultivate and develop. And so that creates, you know, you're feeding the bad guys instead of your muscles. Yeah, I think I'm probably in that club. I ate so much sugar as a kid.

Oh, my God. I lived on it. I'm shocked that I'm not diabetic. You know what I mean? There's a fruit snack called Gushers, if you guys remember those. I mean, the amount of those that I ate, it was insane. No, Pop-Tarts, Toaster Strudels, those were good. Oh, my God.

But, yeah, I ate a lot of sugar. And, yeah, for me, I'm the same way. I need keto is what works for me. But I am cyclical. I do one day of carb load, which was the original anabolic diet by Maura DiPasquale, which I did for the first time 25 years ago. And it worked well, but I was really doing kind of what we would call today dirty keto. And my carb loads were too long.

I mean, you know, I've learned so much about really how to optimize keto since that time. And now it's a lot more refined. Okay, so most people out there are eating 200 to 300 grams of protein a day. Like that's just, I mean I own a gym. I see it every day. Yeah. I mean people have to get calories in and this and that and blah, blah, blah, and they're not going to believe you when you say you eat 80 grams of protein a day.

Yeah. So what kind of things did you go through during the time where you guys started switching to a lower amount of protein and then upping these different enzymes? So there's three different ones. We have the digestive ones. I guess we'll hit those as we speak since you brought up amylase. Amylase, lyphase, and protease are the big three, as I call it. So we'll hit those, and then we'll just talk about the transfers that you guys had

and how you felt really is pretty important, I think. Well, you know, I always say that all things evolve out of necessity. And so way back in 2003, I went to the Mr. Universe contest. I was competing for Canada, drug-free, and I was trying to follow a... Drug-free is important these days. Yeah. I was trying to follow a meat-eating diet as a lacto-oval vegetarian. So I did a whole ton of whey protein.

And so I competed at the Mr. Universe contest, and then I gained 42 pounds of fat and water after that. So I went from Mr. Universe to Mr. Marshmallow. Oh, wow. And I was shocked. You know, I had an amazing coach. I had Spartan discipline. I've been training for 16 years up to this point.

I mean, I had it dialed in like most people probably that year. And you just added whey protein. You know what? That was what I was doing for a lot to get my protein. We was living on rice cakes, whey protein, and what else were you eating? That was almost it. Yeah, I had two shredded wheat biscuits and some potatoes and a little salad once a day. And I saw him do it.

It was like 11 months ago. Yeah, so I had inflammation in the joints. I had brain fog every day. I had no energy. I was ripped to shreds and looked great and felt like shit. Yeah. He'd walk in the gym and he looked like a zombie. Yeah.

I'd say, how's it going? He'd say, yeah, it's another day in paradise, bro. Just out of it. And, you know, here I'm supposed to be at the peak. I'm doing everything you're supposed to be doing. So I was like, okay, something's wrong here. And the good, we had the good fortune of meeting a doctor afterwards. And I said, and this guy was in his seventies. He had great skin. He had super vibrant. He was really strong. I was like, Jesus, this guy kicked my ass. What am I, what am I doing wrong

here? And he said to me, Wade, I'll never forget this. He said, Wade, you've learned to build the body from the outside in. You haven't learned to build the body from the inside out. He said, Wade, you've learned to build the body from the outside in. You haven't learned to build the body from the inside out. He goes, your digestion is messed up. You're not giving yourself the right enzymes. You're not giving yourself the right probiotics. Your gut biome's off. Like all this sort of stuff. And it was pretty hard to argue with.

I was like, okay, well, I'll try it. And I went all in. Matt and I both did. $1,500 a month at the time each. And we just said, because we're committed to like, you know, why not compress the time and just fix this? First month felt great. Second month was amazing.

Third month was like, oh, my God, this is the greatest thing that's ever happened to us. And over the next few years, we ended up coaching about 15,000 people. We had a bodybuilding course, Go Freaking Big Naturally, that we released. And we got to get a lot of data from a lot of different people. And here we are, two polar opposites of the spectrum on diet and how we approach diet. But we both understand fundamentally that if you don't have your digestive system figured out, it doesn't matter. You are going to run into serious problems. And I think we're seeing more and more of that today with herbicides, pesticides, fungicides, genetically modified foods, preservatives, dyes, colors that are all interrupting the microbiome, antibiotics, antibacterial stuff.

And now almost anybody that's listening to this podcast has a moderately to severely compromised digestion. And they've just learned to adapt to that. And they have no idea what it's like to be on the flip side of that. I mean, I could probably eat any diet and be fine. It's like people with gluten. They don't actually know they're gluten insensitive until... 99% of people that have issues with gluten are not aware of it. Yeah, 99.

That's actually the stat. That's insane. So, I think by you talking about pesticides and herbicides and all that stuff, that's insanely important here. Because once you bring up a supplement, everyone's like, why do I need a supplement, right? And I'm the same. I don't want to have to take 700 supplements. But people need to understand that it's not the way it was back then. Well, exactly.

Things are being grown differently. Things are being raised differently. And that's why these things work now because we're finding out the problem and now we're just figuring out how to fix it. Yeah, I totally get the mindset of, hey, I want to do things with just food or I want to do things 100% naturally. Is that even possible? No. First of all, if you get into genetic testing, you're going to see most people have mutations. So right there, that creates limitations and issues.

At the end of the day, do you want to be optimized? Do you want to be optimal? Do you want to be superhuman? Or do you want to be an idealistic guy who's trying to do things, quote naturally or or just with food like you said the food supply we know is is not optimized um you know get genetically modified food the way the farming we know the soil is dry of minerals compared to what it was 75 80 years ago the data shows that so if you're not supplementing you're really just not going to be at your best it's like listen we're all aging right we can't stop it but we can certainly slow it down quite

a bit because again we know hydrochloric acid by the time you're 40 is down so for some people 90 compared to when they were in their in their prime. And we'll talk about, real quick, on a very short note, what that does inside your body. It's your stomach acid. Yep. And without it, you're screwed. And it basically cleans everything out. Well, it also fights off parasites. It fights off viral infections, bacteria agents.

It's a big component of donating ions to the immune system. It alters the pH in the digestive system. As you go, when you're breaking down protein, various proteins break down at different pHs. And so 30 minutes into, 30 to 60 minutes after you eat a food, that's when hydrochloric comes in and starts to change the pH.

And those enzymes will break down the various proteins and amino acids cleave. If you don't have enough hydrochloric acid, you don't break down that protein. Now you've got incomplete proteins. The undigested protein sits in your guts, and then that feeds bad bacteria. And you wake up in the morning, you've got brain fog, and you feel depressed, and you're bloated and tired, and you go for a Starbucks sugar latte because that's what the bugs are telling you to eat.

That's the reality of it. And that's just a normal world for everybody and they don't know why or they can't stick to their diet or they wonder why they're not feeling their best and all that stuff.

It's because the bad guys are running their digestive system and I don't think people really understand how these guys influence our thoughts, our choices, and our selection of food. It's pretty radical, and I think we're in the golden age of awareness on that.

The other big thing, too, is heartburn and GERD is caused by not enough acid. I like acid reflux. Acid reflux, right? Yeah. So what happens is the gas builds up, it opens the valve, and then the stomach content flow up. So if you're actually having any sort of heartburn acid reflux. Which a lot of people do. Which means you're not producing enough acid.

That's where hydrochloric acid really helps. What about excessive burping, like when people are burping a lot? That means it's either food you shouldn't eat or, again, you don't have enough stomach acid or not enough enzymes. Yeah. There's a little flap at the top of your stomach. It's called the lower esophageal sphincter. And when the acid content builds up enough in the stomach, that flap closes. If it's not enough, the chyme and the acid spit up, and that's where you get a heartburn and acid reflux.

And now, of course, on television, what do they tell tell you take an antacid or take a proton pump well if you look at the research on on uh like kind of the opposite yeah if you look at the research you should if and there's probably people listen to this that are on you know proton pumps and all these sort of things you're not supposed to be on these for four to six weeks and you got to get off it because the complications are way worse than the original condition and then you get another pill then you get another pill and then all of a sudden now i need something for a liver because guess what your body has through the enzymes have to metabolize again the repair of your liver is going to be largely dependent on how your enzymatic processes go because enzymes are going to do all the repair and that's why intermittent fasting i think has become so popular because it's preserving our enzymatic pool so that we can repair our bodies.

And also cleaning everything out so that you have a better pool to deal with here. Well, the question is, I always look at what is the mechanism that's doing the healing or doing the cleaning out. It's the enzymes. Enzymes and probiotics are the only things that do work in the body. That's it. Everything else is building materials or fuel. So with these probiotics, I think that there's a lot of people out there, including myself, where they're taking probiotics and they don't feel anything.

And if you look into the research on that, I would say I think it's like 80% of people's probiotic supplements are dead. Yeah. Correct? And there's more shocking data we can share. Yeah. So we've talked to Naveen Jain, the creator of Viome. So for people that don't know, Viome is a gut test.

You literally grab a little piece of your shit, you put it in a tube in a liquid, and you mail it, and they test and they see what is actually inside your gut. And what he said, and, you know, I got... How much is a test like that? I think it's $300 to $400. Okay. And I did mine, and I saw Ben Greenfield's, and anyways, Naveen told us that basically almost every commercial probiotic is a scam, not just because, I mean, let's say there

are some live ones, they don't get to get in there and colonize. So one of the big things about probiotics most people are not aware is there are two types. One is a colonizer, which means it'll actually grow inside your body and kind of build a city, colonize. And the other one is transient. So it means it comes in, and within a few days it's out. So our product is is we call it navy seal of probiotics it goes in it cleans house so some probiotics because this is so strong just just like people that work out you can take a probiotic and put it through a gauntlet and it

comes out stronger so that's essentially what we do it's's a patented process. And by the time it comes out, it's so powerful that it goes in and basically kicks the ass out of the bad guys. And we know that for a fact because we've had dozens of reports, including myself and my wife and Wade, being on the road, having food poisoning where I'm on the floor, you know, doubled over thinking I'm going to die. I take 10 to 15 capsules and within 15, 20 minutes, I'm good. Whereas, you know, you'd be sick for two days usually with food poisoning. So we know it kills bad bacteria extremely efficiently. And like I said, it's a transient strain. And it's proteolytic. So if you're taking it with your food, it'll help, again, break the protein down to aminos.

And it works very, very well with mass times shit so how does how does um when someone i mean they can hear you talk about your product being better than someone else's or stuff like that and then what are some other things that people are looking for when trying to find a great product? Is there something written on the seal? Is there anything? Well, I think one of the unique things, in order to get a patent on anything, you have to prove through a scientific process that it works. And I think what happens in the— Can people find these papers?

Yeah. We actually put the patent number right on the website. They can go in and check it out and look on Google and see how it's all built and how it works. People who are bullshitting, they can just go on their website ask them for the patent number absolutely if they don't have one then it's yeah and and here's the thing what happens is a there's a big difference between what happens in a research lab and then what happens in the bottle on a shelf on a product and i think there's about 2500 i've estimated around 2500 supplement companies out there that are producing probiotics.

And what happens is some research comes out of a lab somewhere, whether that was funded or not funded, and, you know, it says X probiotic is proven to do whatever. Okay. And this probiotic is proven to do whatever. So along comes, you know, a good marketing company, a good supplement company, and they say, hey, look, we're going to take probiotic A, probiotic B, probiotic C, throw it in a bottle, cover everything once, fire it into your system. They haven't tested whether they're alive.

They don't know if they've got the prebiotic, the postbiotic stuff. They don't know if they're competitive strains. They just know they're hot products. And so they go with the hot masses. And in today's Instagram world, you know, it's like what's hot today? What's on Twitter? What's on Twitter? Give me this this i want to fix now i'm feeling bad whatever um and they don't have any durability we've been we've been talking this conversation now for literally 14 years and we've we've been producing this probiotic for 14 years and the reason we've been able to do it is because people buy it stay

on it love it and feel the difference and so that's not that's not a claim that's just durability over time and it's just that nowadays the conversation that matt and i got into this to fix our own lives we were personal trainers and nutritionists and we're dealing with people one-on-one and we saw this problem we wanted to solve our own problem and we built a company so to to kind of keep solving that problem and now it just got really popular because it got to the masses and conversations like this started to happen there are a couple of you know insider secrets if you will of the industry um most supplement companies go to there's a couple of big private labelers, which means that these private labelers, all they do, they've got these stock ingredients, mostly

from China, and they just literally put a label on the bottle and ship it out. Now there's some good guys. I'm not going to try to pretend, Hey, by optimizers is the only good supplement company. There's some other good guys out there, but for the majority, that's what people do. No way to nice approach has always been, let's do whatever it takes, first of all, to make the most effective product, and we've got to make it unique and special.

Like, if it's not unique and special and effective, we're not interested in releasing it. So for an example, with Mavzymes, our proteolytic enzymes, we have more protease per capsule than any other enzyme on the market. That's just a fact. It's not, again, an opinion. Plus...

That's the only one so far that I've taken personally. Awesome. For the past couple weeks. Yeah, and how did you feel on it? Because I'm one of the burp guys. I do a lot of burping. Mm-hmm. Like, because I probably...

I know I eat too much protein, but fuck, I just love to eat so much. So when I got the product, I was like, oh like oh cool maybe this will help like you know and uh i do i i still burp a little bit but i don't uh ever feel like bloated stomach if if you add the hcl it'll eliminate probably the burping okay yeah so we have found that, again, the optimal digestive combo for, again, when you're eating meals or protein is the mass times, the P3OM, which is the probiotic, and HDL. So that trilogy, you can digest the horse. You know, you can just eat. You adjust the dosage based on the amount of food you're eating. If you're going to eat carbs, especially gluten-based carbs like pizza or bread, then Gluten Guardian

works very, very well. So that's like your cheat meal go out. That's the cheat meal go out. I pound a lot of these on Sundays. Put a couple of those in your pen protector area. Yeah. Just pop a few out. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, and like Wade said, casein, it helps really with casein, which is A1 protein, which is the protein from cows. That's the one you don't absorb, right? Well, that's the one that's extremely inflammatory. You can see that in blood work. And your body's inflamed for three days. That's why the A2 milk just came out. Yeah.

I mean, well, you know, goat cheese and other animals are fine. So I went from not doing dairy, but then I switched to goat and I had no issues. So for people on keto, I strongly recommend switching animals if you're in a cow program. Goat cheese is insane. Yeah, goat cheese is awesome. Do you eat cheese at all? Yeah, I'm a lacto-oil guy, so I'll have eggs or whole cheese. I'm not a big guy on all that stuff, but I don't limit it. I did a raw food diet for a couple years which was you talk about socially challenging it

felt great but you know i was like really weird now i'm only like super weird but before that i was just i would say everyone on this podcast has been weird at some point yeah i think it's well i think i think it's important you know today there's this kind of this whole meme that everybody's got to like fit into some tribe or something but you know wisdom's found on the extremes and then you kind of pull found on the extremes and then you kind of pull back from the extreme you know you kind of go out onto the edge find the discovery and things break down and then you come back to find your medium i mean you look at the buddha said you know the buddha said the the middle path but you know that's a guy that sat under a tree for

seven years and meditated you know like so i mean where he was pretty extreme guy yeah that's such a good point i feel like everybody in this world has been weird at some point yeah or you should if you're not you should not everybody in this world i mean everybody who's successful in this world yeah has been weird at some point well yeah i mean authenticity just being yourself this is a big part of i think being successful which to most people that are not authentic will appear weird. Yeah. Well, to add to the whole dairy thing that we're talking about, there are some dairy digestive enzymes, correct? Yeah. Should I say dairy?

Well, it brings down the lactose, which is called lactase. Which is a sugar, but that's not a protein. Just like gluten is not a carb, it's a protein. All right. Let's get into that. See, so once again, a lot of people just look at the surface. They think of bread as a carb. It's a protein. All right. Let's get into that. See, so once again, a lot of people just look at the surface. They think a bread is a carb. It's not the carbs that's the problem.

It's the inflammatory protein coating. So gluten, to give you an example, is like the cover of a baseball. You've probably seen the cover ripped off of a baseball. You see all the thread inside. Well, the gluten is the cover of the protein molecule to unlock the food, and your body can't break that down. So we realized this was a big problem when we went out and built Gluten Guardian, which has DPP-4, which is an enzyme that breaks down gluten. It opens that cover, basically, so your body can break down the protein. And we have the most amount of DPP-4 that you can get over the counter.

And to get stronger than this, you'd have to go to a doctor and get a prescription. In fact, we have pharmacists now who are actually buying the Gluten Guardian product because they find it easier to disseminate that over the counter. Like online dispensaries and things like that. People are buying it because it works so well and it's made people's lives a lot better. That was kind of like a, we didn't plan on that happening. It just happened because we got so much feedback from people out in the world that love their other products and said, hey, can you guys figure out this gluten thing? It's like, well, let's see if we can. I'll have to try that on my next donut day.

Yeah, it's great. Are you a sidecar guy? Yes. Yes. I love that you know that. Yes. Sidecar and the other thing in L.A. So there's one right by me in Newport.

And the other thing in L.A. for anybody coming here, just L.A., New York, London, and Tokyo, you can get these. It's called Cronuts. Yep. If you've never had a Cronut, they'll change your life. Especially for, again, cheating. I don't think people understand what Sidecar is, though. So Sidecar, in my opinion, my friend used to live here,

and he just kept raving about Sidecar. He said, dude, I think it's the best donuts on the planet. And finally, I came and tried it, and I can't disagree. Because I go all over the world, and people are like, oh, you've got to try this donut here or there. First off, it's got to be a time where I'm ready for a donut. I had to have been on my diet for solid for a while. I'm like, all right, it's time. Yeah.

So that's got to be aligned in the stars. And then also, it's just got to be a fucking good donut. I have to be looking at it and be like, okay, that looks like a good donut. Being the odd guy here, I'm going to throw my... Since we're on the donut subject, I don't know how we got here, but on the bottom line, I'm going to throw my vote to the

Chaga Reishi Chocolate Vegan Donut at Air One. You know, it's for me... It's a $7 donut. But it has 10 grams of pea protein, right? Okay, right on. So for me, that's like a whole protein meal being one of these leaf eaters, right?

Which, again, you can eat those almost any day, right? It's a pretty clean day. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I get more donuts per week than you guys can have. But part of Sidecar's secret is they're just coming out with donuts all day. They're warm. But they're like, out with donuts all day. They're warm. But they're like, you could throw it through a bulletproof window. It's a heavy donut.

It's not a regular donut. No. Yeah, that's the difference. I ate 12 last time I went. Really? Yeah. Is that an entire bottle of Gluten Guardian? Yeah, probably about 10 capsules.

Yeah. 10, 12. That's my number 10 when I go. And I do do this every week, and it's extremely anabolic. So if you're on keto, let's say five, six days, I recommend six, and you, especially if you're in a deficit, calorie deficit, and then you eat 5,000 to 10,000 calories of primarily carbs. I mean, the insulin is insanely anabolic.

I mean, I've built like 27 pounds of lean tissue the last three years on a DEXA scan while burning about 15 pounds of fat. Now, people say, hey, you can't build muscle and lose fat at the same time. That's true. But with this calorie cycling strategy, it ends up being the same. So essentially, I'm burning fat for six days, and then I'm building a lot of muscle for one, if that makes any sense. And then usually when I go on vacation three, four weeks out of the year, I'll get off diet and try to build muscle during that time. And it's a great strategy.

Yeah. Our holiday season, it's coming up. It's coming up. We live in a part, you know, it's social, family. And we come from a part of the world that, you know, a diet is that you only have like two Tim Horton donuts with your meal. You know, so Christmas time and all that is just like nuts. So we go down there and we load up on the calories and boost our,

we call it boosting our metabolism. And then we just train like freaks. Squats and deadlift time. You do – you can feel the energy. Oh, yeah. You get stronger. Oh, yeah. I always feel like shit, but I think it's mental.

Yeah. Like after I eat all of it because I'm like, oh, man. Yeah. It's usually – for me, it's – you know, if I can keep it to 15 pounds over the two-week holidays, that's good. 15 pounds. Yeah, I's good. 15 pounds. Yeah, I'll go up 15 pounds. And then that usually starts my diet cycle for January. You know how it is.

Everybody sets the goals. And then I'll just burn down and I'll get to my leanest state around April, May. And then summertime comes and then it starts to fade back up into the fall season. I try to stay lean pretty much year-round. I've got to be cool on Instagram. I have no year round i gotta be cool on instagram i have no choice yeah yeah see i have no choice unless i i mean i could i could uh like front load a bunch of photos just toss them out over time right and people don't know but i mean they would know eventually i'm an old guy i'm gonna go like nobody has any expectations of me so we just hit a little bit of gluten stuff we had a little bit of dairy did we finish the dairy I'm going to go ahead. Nobody has any expectations of me.

So we just hit a little bit of gluten stuff. We hit a little bit of dairy. Did we finish the dairy? No, there's another enzyme. Well, actually, the DPP-4 also works on inflammatory proteins like the A1 protein as well. So we didn't know that at first, and then we got diving into the research and reproducing. Itcing was like wow and then we we tested it and got great feedback clinically from our clients because you know we've got people from all over the world that are suffering from a variety of digestive conditions uh whether it's the proteins on milk whether it's they can't digest the diet they're

having or whether having problems with gluten and so we have one of the things that we do as a company that's really unique it's called called, uh, we fix your digestion guarantee. So people will oftentimes buy one product to say, you know, like your situation, let's say you say, okay, I got the enzyme and it was really cool, but you know, I, I still have this, you know, this thing, call us, talk to our concierge. We'll get you the product that works. Sometimes people misdiagnose their digestive issues. We're just committed to helping people find the right solution. That's cool. If you have someone on the phone, I'll actually give them some help.

Then they'll just send them the bottle and say, is it fixed? Our goal is not to sell people a product. Our goal is to fix people's digestion. There's products involved but oftentimes they might not know what that is. They hear us on this podcast and they buy an enzyme, but really they need the P3OM probiotic, you know, and they might not get that from this

podcast. So they just reach out to us and we, we answer the questions and help them out. Well, I already know that that's the path that you're on just because of the way that it all started and you guys had your own problems and it turned into a company. At what point actually did you, did you say to yourself, you know, this is important enough where I think that the whole world should know about this and actually create a company and make this my lifelong. Well, we started with marketing, bodybuilding information, and then we discovered the power of enzymes when we met Dr. Michael O'Brien

and we did a massive 90 dayday cycle of enzymes and probiotics, and we just felt better. That was $4,500. Yeah. We felt better than we've ever had in our lives. So at that point, we said, you know what? We must produce these enzymes or a better version of it, which we did, and sell it because it's just too powerful. So we felt really compelled based on our personal experience to do so,

and we just kind of organically evolved into a digestion company because we really believe, I mean, again, the cornerstone of health or even performance or aesthetics we know is nutrition, but what is great nutrition? It's not just what you put in. It's really how you break it down and how you assimilate it. So, you know, the assimilation process means you're taking, let's say again, protein, you drink a protein shake. How much of that are you breaking down? How much of that is going through your intestinal tract into your blood? I want to know that so bad. I think everyone does. Yeah. So how much of that is going through your small intestinal tract into the blood? And then how much of that is being synthesized into

lean tissue that's really what food's about it's not just you know how macros how much would you say that people are absorbing of like protein powders because i know some people well let's just let's just people out there living on protein powders let's be honest i had a girlfriend actually she yeah legitimately more than half of her diet was protein powder well back when i was competed the mr universe it was literally all the protein i was getting was out of protein powder and at that time you did look good correct yeah that was yeah and then i ended up in a you know in the general hospital basically you know as a ghostbusters yeah so it you know i think first off a lot of people mistake fitness for health. If I look good, you assume that I'm healthy.

No, you're just fit. And oftentimes you're making decisions that will compromise your long-term health. This is the game of professional sports and cosmetic industry. It's like women without periods and such. Exactly, right? So it takes about 100 grams of protein to build a pound of muscle. So, if you just do the basic math, okay? Oh, if I eat 400 grams of protein every day, I should be able to gain 4 pounds of muscle.

Okay, let's take, I'm going to repair a pound or 2 pounds. So, it's not as simple as just eating more protein. And in fact, when you do that model, what you tend to do is now you're putting more of a demand on your proteolytic enzyme production inside the body. And at a sooner point, you're going to end up just like me, and you're going to hit the breaking point. That's going to show up as either depression.

It's going to show up as skin conditions. It's going to show up as gas or bloating or horrible smells in the gym. You know, like you go to the change room, right? We're in Venice right now. You go to the Venice Gold's gym. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I've been in there.

And you see the distended bellies. You see all this stuff. And people say, well, that's GH gut. Well, yeah, that's part of it. But you know what? There's a lot of weirdness going on in people's digestive systems. And do you ever notice that's kind of correlated with the mass influx of protein powders? But you know what? There's a lot of weirdness going on in people's digestive systems. And do you ever notice that's kind of correlated with the mass influx of protein powders?

You didn't see this in the 70s. You didn't see this in the Arnold's days and all this sort of stuff when they were eating real food. Also, there's other areas. If you look on the plant-based guys like myself, if you're not getting the pesticides, herbicides, and fungicides off your food, like the USDA organics allows 50 different chemicals on their organic produce. And these agents, these chemical agents, herbicides, pesticides, fungicides, how do they kill bugs? They interrupt the enzymatic production of those insects. So the question I always ask people is,

how much of that stuff do you have to eat before it will kill you? Well, gastrointestinal disease is now the fifth leading cause of death. Cancer, heart disease, diabetes are all traced to your diet. And we find that you put someone on proteolytic enzymes that's depressed, oftentimes their depression goes away. You put someone that's on a diabetic insulin, you put them on an enzyme that has amylase, and they start using less insulin. You see someone with skin conditions who you put them on a lipase, and guess what? All of a sudden their skin conditions clear up. And also they burn more fat, correct? Exactly. So we're starting to see pathways that extend beyond digestion.

So one of the reasons I believe intermittent fasting has become so popular nowadays is because the chemical load that we're facing as a species now because of the modern world and all its advantages, I'm not here to trash it. When we say intermittent fasting, let's just clarify. You're talking about like a three-day fast. Well, no, I'm actually talking about maybe people eating once a day or in a time-constricted window of like four to six hours. Some people do it 12, but if you're getting into cellular.

It's not real intermittent fasting. I agree. Agreed? I'm a one-milli-day guy. I don't want to geek out on it too hard, and I've had a podcast on it before. Well, the magic is 18 hours past. Yeah. That's where the stem cells and GH and all the magical stuff starts.

And also not great for women. I agree. Okay. I just wanted to clarify that. Yeah, for sure. Women generally do better if they eat early in the day if they're on that type of program as opposed to later in the day where men will do better right away and then fast right fast yeah so i work with a naturopathic physician who regulate who helps um regulate a lot of women who have hormone issues and all these sort of things which is so common nowadays with girls it's insane it's insane and crossfit

actually ruined it and so um i love crossfit but they've ruined women. Shit. I'm not going to go there. So I love women. So I mean, they're great. But yeah, they've done some things. Yeah. So I think I think they I think women generally because of the childbearing years and stuff are much more chemically sensitive than men.

And then you see men it tends to develop later on in life where they really run into problems it just happens a little earlier for women because of the load of you know preparing oneself for pregnancy but yeah i think one of the reasons that's popular because it's preserving the enzyme pool of people and allowing them to recover and regenerate and heal their body because their body isn't trying to digest a bunch of food. It's got metabolic enzymes to start fixing what's going wrong inside the body. So there is two other things that I'm interested to see if you have any input on. So, like, my mom's going to be pissed at me right now, but it's fine. So my mom, like, poops, like, once a week.

Yeah. And this is actually a pretty good problem for a lot of people yeah i've had a girlfriend before who's insanely fit same thing only poop like once a week is that correlated with some enzymes and probiotics and stuff like that yeah that's part of it and the other part is the microbiome um and then and there's and there's also a psychosocial component especially with women because they're worried about smell they're worried about not going to the bathroom or being out. They got all these kind of things and pressure early on and all this sort of stuff. That's one aspect. But if you look at your microbiome or the

good and bad bacteria, so I always say there's good, bad and ugly, 10% good, 10% bad, 80% opportunists that based on your diet, your lifestyle stress on, on your life. And so typically what happens is a lot of women will go into a restrictive period of life or restricted diet for cosmetic purposes and alter their microbiome significantly that's not counting uh alcohol or drug abuse that sometimes comes up that can create damages or also um a lot of high levels of stress. We live in a very stressful environment as far as all the different input components that are inside our lives nowadays

from Wi-Fi technology to constantly being in front of blue lights to being under fluorescent lighting to driving around in cars, not getting your feet... There's all these different environmental things that we're subjected to that as a species we haven't quite evolved to.

And this can alter the microbiome. And then over time it starts to get to a point where you're not creating the proper peristaltic contractions. They also might be chronically dehydrated. This starts bringing anxiety. The contractions you speak of, just for people out there who didn't know what he just meant, it just meant like pushing through your intestines.

Yeah, the smooth muscle contractions that go on. And then you have things like chlorine and fluoride that are in water, which also destroy the microbe. If they've gone through a high level of antibiotics at some period of time, oftentimes treatments for skin conditions or things like that, again, it'll alter that. And then you don't have the bacteria, which are hooked right into our nervous system that are talking to our brains. They're talking to our central nervous system. They're creating the functions that are required for that. So this becomes normal. The doctor is going to the bathroom two or three times a week.

He tells you it's normal. But most people, like myself, it's a pound in, a pound out. Literally, every time I go for a a meal i'm going to the bathroom usually within 30 60 minutes later it's like gone so there's a lot of things people are going through that they think are normal that are not one of them is you know like in infrequent bowel movements if you're burping it's not normal if you got bloating it's not normal. If you've got bloating, it's not normal. Again, if you're farting, it's not normal. Rainfog in the morning? Yes.

None of these things are normal. Now, most people think it's normal. Like, hey, I just ate a big meal. I'm supposed to have my belly full, like that sensation. But it's either one of two things. It's either you're eating food you shouldn't eat or you're deficient in enzymes, hydrochloric acid, or you don't have the right bile. And it's really one of the two. It's really easy to diagnose.

I think with a lot of people, I mean, on keto, it's pretty easy to be constipated, for example, because, you know, all the lack of water in the fruits or the fiber from the vegetables. But one of the things that really helps is our new product called ConstiCleanse, which is designed for constipation. So it's got some psyllium and cascara and red clover and kelp and some different enzymes to help push it through and really help deal with those issues. But essentially, if you've got any of those digestive problems that just called out, you know, look at the food you're eating and, you know, try some of our products

because it's really one of the two. I've heard Charles Poliquin, I'm sure you're familiar with him. Yeah. Sad to hear what happened. But he talked about like he had different athletes who i want to say like if they had like european origin like they just they just did better on certain foods and they just you know like some of us depending on our heritage we just do better on certain foods and can you elaborate on that or maybe find out

like if someone's like oh well i'm you know well if you go, present this or that. They can look up and find this out. Well, if you go way back in time, I remember Chris Aceto did what would now be an inflammatory paper with this kind of environment that we live in today. And that he was demonstrating genetic dispositions in responses to food. And what he was able to demonstrate is exactly what you were saying, is that if you lived in a culture, for example, if you take a person with a high percentage of Asian genetics, will generally metabolize rice than a person who comes from, say, a European Caucasian descent. And I always look at, when you're looking at fermented foods, and I do believe that people should introduce fermented foods into your diets.

I don't think that you can supplement your way out of a bad diet. I don't want to be clear about that. I think supplements become a way to optimize the diet that you're on. I'm happy that you said that. So when you're looking at, you know, someone of a Caucasian background is probably going to do good on sauerkraut and sausages. Because you grew up that way. And that's what your genetic forefathers grew up on. So you've built a microbiome.

You've built a genetic response. You've been able to extract and optimize the absorption and utilization of the nutrients you're consuming from that diet. Adding maybe kimchi to that diet is not going to make a difference. However, if you're on maybe a more traditional Asian diet, kimchi and miso and these other fermented foods. So I look at, historically, as humans, we've figured out the way of using fermentation and adding these probiotics into the foods, and the foods that are going to be supportive of the prebiotics and postbiotics,

it's going to allow those colonizers. And that's where we're different. Like P3M is a transient strain that goes in and wipes out the bad guys. It's not a colonizer. And so our job is to wipe out the bad guys and your diet kicks in to take over and to colonize and create the right environment that supports you. You know, just to make this real, I live in Panama, which is the tropics, obviously. Of course, coconut's such a big part of culinary.

My wife loves to use it to cook rice. That's the first thing I thought of when I thought of Panama. Yeah, coconut milk, coconut oil, you know, coconut everything, right? And, of course, everybody says coconut oil is one of the healthiest things you can eat. So I was eating quite a bit of it. I was getting blood work, and my triglycerides were through the roof. So for me, personally, coconut oil is out. I mean, I might have a little bit once in a while, but if I'm eating too much of it, I just can't break it down.

And there's also epigenetics. So going back to what Wade was saying, we've seen in different experiments, like worms and things, that epigenetics, which means that certain genes get turned on or turned off, get passed up to like 18 generations. So the gut biome of the things we ate is part of it. But I do believe, and again, to me it's just logic, that epigenetics in terms of what my father ate, what my grandfather ate, is part of the equation as well. I think that's good to bring up just because a lot of people are like, oh, hey. They might email someone like me or email someone that they look up to on Instagram per se since we're in the Instagram world. They're like, hey, what do you eat? Or they'll follow them and be like, oh, this is what so-and-so eats, and so I'm going to eat that.

And it's like, no, no, no, it doesn't work that way. You really have to try a lot of different things, and you have to figure out what works for you. Yeah. And I think everyone's so individualized, and I just get really bummed on that. Yeah, getting blood work, I think, ideally every quarter is a great idea. Getting the biome tests, because the biome actually— When you say blood work, though, are you talking about just a standard full blood panel? Yeah, a standard full blood panel. And, you know, seeing over time, I mean,

let's say you go from eating carbs to keto, take a look at what's happening. You know, your triglycerides out of control is your, where's your LDL, what's your HDL, what's happened to your hormones. That's important. And then, you know, getting a gut test like Viome, one of the cool things it does, it tells you which foods you should eat a lot of, which foods you should avoid. And I, you know, just, just through mental awareness, physical awareness, I had shifted a lot of the foods. Like for example, chicken's not good for me. Well, the gut test told me, the gut test agreed. Beef is awesome for me. The gut test told me eat a lot of beef. Arugula, which is a leafy vegetable, pound it.

I kind of organically found, but the biome test, I'd say, nailed a lot of the foods that I shouldn't eat and should eat. Then there's food allergy tests. I was going to say, what do you think of these ones that you can buy on Amazon for like $100? Because I've had people... No. For the food allergy?

Yeah. No, there's an array test. People literally get these and it's almost every single time on for like a hundred bucks because i've had people no the for the food allergy yeah no you you know there's an array test people literally get these and it's almost every single time in my experience it's the top three is the things they eat the most which i've read is like the creating antibodies in your body to just basically pop that up on the test so if you eat a lot of almonds and you eat a lot of eggs it's going to say you're allergic to eggs you're allergic to almonds yeah exactly and do you agree on that i do and do you think that those tests are accurate or they should be getting a much better one get a much better one yeah yeah um and then and if you want to another way too is hrv so heart rate variability if you're eating food that your body does not like your heart rate

variability is going to drop significantly like your heart rate is actually going to go up and your heart rate variability is going to go down and your heart rate will go down. So you're talking about these like, what do you call it? Like the whoop or something like that. Yeah. I mean, I wish the Oura Ring, which is a great sleep tracker, and it does track HRV all day. You know, I think we're going to see in

the next few months and years integrate with our diet so you could actually put, hey, I ate chicken and it would tell you hey your hrv dropped or went up so we can start as bad yeah dropped as bad it means basically your body's stressed when it goes up it means your body is is happy and for one thing to add to that i think is i think just getting out a journal and tracking how you feel before after uh you eat which is how you wake up in the morning and feel and how you sleep at night and just if you do that just for a couple of weeks

it's it's not scientific from the standpoint that you're getting some lab to figure things out but you get really tuned what's working for you might not know the mechanisms you might not know all the nuances but you can say you know what i don't feel good when I eat this or I get bloated when I do this. So, oh, and I see that that happened three days in a row where I woke up with a food hangover. Well, guess what? That's a clue that you can start taking action on right now. And then if you can get a professional in your life, like a good naturopathic doctor that can read this and start teaching you so that you can interpret the data, because it's not just the data, it's how well you can interpret it and then translate it into your diet and your training and to your lifestyle.

Then you start making progressive strides. And within a couple of years, you can become super dialed in to your own physiology and have confidence with that without just ascribing to some group because it was a fad. I don't care what diet you're on, whether it's, again, vegetarian or keto, the mastery is in the nuance, right? The mastery is in figuring out that lamb's really good for you, salmon's really good for you, and chicken's not, right, for example, in keto. Or avoid the cow milk products, eat the goat cheese stuff.

It's those nuances that, first of all, improve your health, improve how you feel, reduce inflammation, which makes it a lot easier to burn body fat, for example. And same thing with weight. I mean, you know, it's not like, you know, which vegetables should he eat more of, which ones should he avoid. It's the nuances, I think, that really make a diet work. It's not just the big, broad concepts. So I like that we've been hitting, like, probably all the hottest topics.

We hit gluten and dairy and just enzymes and digestion in general. There's one more thing I think that's really, really popular in the world. People are going to want to know how they can combat it, and I would say that's probably alcohol. So you guys have any? I'm going to give a hack that I probably shouldn't i'm in for it and i see like the the grinch that's the old christmas yeah yeah and that is if you go out and get liquored take a handful of mass times and you're gonna sober up much faster or you have the hangover in the morning and the reason

why you have that hangover is that your liver is taking time it's using its enzymatic reserves to metabolize the alcohol and when you take these guys on an empty stomach especially if you're not digesting what happens is they get converted into metabolic enzymes and i do believe they they share pathways so within like a like a proteolytic pathway or an amylase pathway. And I can't tell you how many people have taken a handful of those in the morning or before they go to bed and they go, wow, that's amazing. As long as they're on an empty stomach. Well, it's best, yeah. Usually the time you're like deep into the pounding of alcohol, you're not really interested in food, you know. At least when I used to drink and I used to party and all that sort of stuff, that that's what I discovered. He's got the

cronut look going right now. Drunk and a cronut. Yeah. Yeah. The drunken, the drunken corner program. I mean, obviously a lot of people go, you know, the, the drunken restaurant at 3am with the greasy spoon, you know, the Denny's meal, you know, cause you're just kind of in that state. But again, again, breaking all that stuff down, it just comes down to enzymatic metabolism. 25,000 biochemical reactions all traced to enzymes, and it just makes sense. If you put more of those workers inside your body,

you're going to be able to get the result faster. So what I always look at is recovery, digestion, any metabolic process in the body. We allocate these kind of set time points, like it takes this amount of time to recover from training or this amount of time to metabolize alcohol. No. We know that there's variances within that just by observing people at the gym.

Some guys recover faster than others. And I go, if I can use technology to compress time, our experience of time is relative to the amount of technology we can put at that. And so I'm like, with biological optimization, and what we're into at Bioptimizers, we're using technology to optimize the body's natural processes to get the result faster than we could if we couldn't do it.

I like it. I have one last thing to bring up, and it's mainly just for sheer shits and giggles, literally. I'd like to know what the Batman enema is. Well, I'm going to turn it over to the creator of the Batman enema himself, Matty Batman Gallant. I may have heard about that. Yeah, the Batman enema.

So did you just try this on your own one day? Well, I'll give you, I guess, the whole background. I was doing colonics, and I decided, you know what? Let me take P3OM, ferment it. So I brought about two liters. So one of the things you can do with the probiotic is put it in coconut water, and it will multiply. So I brought about a liter of it. She threw it into the water tub and then put it up my butt.

And the next day, I mean – She? Who's this? Well, this was a colonic. The colon therapist. This was a colonic, right, where they – You do the colonics, and then you can get an implant. Some people have greens and all that sort of stuff.

So anyways, the next day, the stuff that came out, I've never seen before. I mean, it was like kind of that people say along your intestinal tract you have this tar, this rubbery tar shaped like a moon. That's the stuff that came out. I'm like, wow, this is really effective. So to do it at home, what I do is I do the same out. I'm like, wow, this is really effective. So, you know, to do it at home, what I do is I do the same thing. I ferment, I do an enema with the solution and then I flip upside down. So I had this, uh, the yoga swing, you know, one of those yoga swings and I just

flip over now, now I've got a, like an inversion chair. No, the yoga swing, an inversion chair works really well. Yeah. I've got one now. That's what I use now. I don't think I want to go on that if I go to your house. Yeah. Fair enough. Can I land it so quick? Sure.

So, no, it works really well. And, obviously, again, it's going to help eliminate bad bacteria that might be in that area. And your body absorbs it. What's interesting is literally nothing comes out usually. Yeah. Oh, wow. Because your body just absorbs it. That's really interesting stuff.

I feel amazing right now. I feel like I just learned so much stuff, which is great. And I did a little bit of research before I came on the show. I never like to come on the show and not know anything, so I would never want to do that. But I feel like I got a lot of stuff out that I didn't really know too much on. But to leave our guests with some highlights, let's just say, like, you know, give them, like, three things to increase their performance and increase their life. So I think the first thing is in terms of what we just talked about.

I think starting off, add some fermented foods into your diet that are relative to the dietary choices that you have. I think the second thing is get a professional naturopathic physician that is familiar with performance to help you interpret data that you're doing. And the third thing is add digestive products into your dietary process and see what happens. The thing I'll add is really start becoming aware of how your body feels eating different foods. Because, again, not feeling great all the time is not normal. For most people, that is normal. For us, it used to be normal all the time is not normal. Now, that's what most people think. For most people, that is normal. For us, it used to be normal. But now we know different.

So really being tuned in to, again, how is your body reacting? What does the blood work say? And, again, as Wade said, get a health professional. But, you know, within literally a few months, it's not a complicated process, you can get your diet to a point where it's just incredible. And one of the tips too for that is actually simplify your diet. So one of the big upgrades I made this year is I literally eat the same thing every day of every week. So for an example, Monday's ribeyes. Tuesday, it's a big seafood kind of a chowder. Wednesday, it's lamb with goat cheese. Thursday, it's my one big salad. Friday, I fast. Saturday, I eat sushi. Sunday, I just eat whatever. But mentally, and this has been proven in research and experiments, compliance goes way up because it just simplifies it. I don't

spend any time trying to figure out, hey, what am I eating today? Right? And I look forward to ribeye days or look forward to lamb. And it also simplifies things to a point where I can optimize every single meal. Because if I'm eating new things all the time, it's a lot more work to try to optimize every single meal that I'm doing. And be intuitive with how your body feels. Right. I mean, but if I'm eating six meals a week that are just extremely well optimized, not only do I feel great, but mentally it's incredible just freeing of mental ram. Yeah.

I would add to that. It's kind of like the Zen philosophy. If you have a Zen environment, I'm a big believer in having like a minimalism in my environment. The second that you bring something into a minimalistic environment, so if you have a relatively similar diet and then I decide, oh, I'm going to introduce this, I instantly become aware of the response of that particular food at any given time. So it allows us to systematically test new products, new things, and get intuitive data on our bodies really, really quickly. So simplify to optimize, I think, is a great philosophy to kind of embrace.

And that way you can get your own data on your own life and determine what's right for you. I think that's like the old Rob Wolf philosophy, too. He says, you know, take everything out for 30 days, start bringing stuff back in, see how you feel. Yeah. That's pretty standard. I tell people that all the time in the gym. And even with their supplements, I mean, try, try mouth sounds for 30 days and then take it out. Believe me, you'll, uh, you'll be very clear on the benefits.

And one of the best ways to test our products is, is go eat like a huge meal, which normally you'd feel bloated. You wouldn't feel good. I mean, go to a steakhouse get out get a pound ribeye if you're eating steak get the sides get a dessert and take mass times you know hcl and probiotics you're gonna feel great like there's again none of that bloating that usually you'd be dealing with for a couple of hours so it's a great kind of fast test that you can do to see how it works um so we'll go to sidecar needs 12 donuts oh yeah the donut test i can can do to see how it works. Or go to Sidecar and eat 12 donuts.

The donut test. I can't wait to see how that feels. Maybe it's today. Maybe it's today. Where can everybody find you guys? Are you guys personally on social media or no? A little bit? I'm kind of

from an era that didn't even have computers you know like i'm pretty old school so you can find me though at bioptimizers i do what i do do is i literally answer every single question that comes into bioptimizers and i've answered literally thousands over the last 15 years or 14 years i guess it is and anything that's new that i haven't answered i continue to answer directly so we have a very well-trained staff that handles all this stuff and i love new questions i love the odd duck questions i love the interviews because sometimes some of our products got developed because somebody had a problem and i was like oh that's an interesting

problem let's see if we can go figure that out. And then Matt and I start going to the lab, and he's a mad scientist, and I like to feel that fire, and we figure something else new. So we just want to solve people's digestion, right? So we have a bio-optimizer Instagram? Yeah, bio-optimizers. We're not super active on Instagram, but we have more on our site. We have a YouTube channel with a lot of good videos. Oh, okay, cool.

But we've got a special discount for everybody listening, RealChalk20. If you go to any of our websites, Masszymes, if you want the digestive enzymes, the proteolytic enzymes, P3OM.com or Bioptimizers.com, RealChalk 20 will give you 20% off of everything. Oh, nice. And, yeah, it's awesome. I think buyoptimizers.com slash realchalk. We've got some special packages that even give you bigger discounts than 20. So it's pretty exciting.

365, 365-day money-back guarantee. We'll fix your digestion guarantee. So if you buy a product that doesn't fix it, we'll send you the one that we think when you call us that was no charge to fix it i really like the customer service on that that's really really cool yeah i mean the bottom line is is where we build premium products they're premium prices we want to create a premium experience and if we can't fix if you bought something from us and we can't fix it we demand give us your money back because i don't want to be one of these scourges of the supplement industry that turn people off of the industry because they bought a crappy product

from a crappy company that doesn't give a crap about people uh we at the him and i are both personal trainers we've coached over 15 000 people over a long long period of time and it's not about the money for us. For us, when we were personal trainers, we did that business because I got the juice out of seeing people's transform and their lives change and how that affected their families. I had the same life. Yeah, you can relate. And once you have that experience, I mean, Daniel Common already demonstrated that after $150,000, the only thing that changes in your life as far as money goes is you have a bigger house and you have more cars and you take a more pricey vacation.

It doesn't really happen. The happiness factor doesn't. But when it comes down to where does the happiness come from, it comes from contribution. And I've seen firsthand the scourges of disease and dysfunction take a toll on my own personal family. And it's just nice to reverse that for other people. And we're passionate about it. And that's, I think why we've been around for so long. Our mission as a company is to end physical suffering by activating awesome health. Cause I, cause I look at health as a spectrum, right? So on one end of it, I mean, at the very end is the death, then, you know, you're extremely sick. Now, what most people consider healthy is in the middle in our minds.

And then when you get past that, which is what we're into, you're really getting into super health, awesome health. You're feeling incredible. Like, there's a feeling of vitality in your body that most people have never experienced. I mean, you know, again, having energy all the time, literally feeling good in your body all the time. And that's what we're really into. So a lot of people are on the sicker side or people might be in the middle,

but we believe that by optimizing your digestion, you're going to move further along that path. And that's really what bioptimization is about. That was fucking awesome. It makes me think of Tony Robbinsbins he talks about success and stuff and the only thing that matters is really like fulfillment and how you fill other people's lives so yeah sounds like you guys are doing that and uh i felt like i just got a little piece of that from this interview and i feel like i just learned so much and i'm excited to try some of the other products that i don't know of because mass times only i've taken so all right everybody I hope you guys learned all of the

things on enzymes and I hope that you just learned so much in general and that you're really going to start creating some diaries and start figuring out how your body feels and just getting on the path to a better and healthier life so I will see you guys next Tuesday on the real chalk podcast I love you guys have a good day