Barbell Shrugged - Work Less, Charge More And Make Your Clients Happier – with Larry Gaier - Active Life Radio #19

Episode Date: November 29, 2019

Have you ever had an employee leave and take over $15,000 of revenue with them? Our guest was THAT employee, but don’t get triggered just yet.   In this episode, we’re talking to 1-on-1 Active Life Coach and personal trainer Larry Gaier. He talks about his decision to leave his job at New York Sport Club and take his clients with him.   If you haven’t experienced remote programming for yourself it may seem unlikely that you can achieve the same results, if not better, and never even see your coach or trainer in person. We discuss the difficult choice he had to make in leaving his dream job and why he doesn’t regret it for a second. Plus, Larry talks about how he restructured his services to do less work while making more money, having a greater impact on his clients, and how you can start doing the same.    Minutes: 11:15 Charging what you’re worth 18:15 Be a reflection of your intentions 22:50 Building competence & confidence 29:30 Creating self-efficacy 34:00 When to refer out   Please Support our Sponsors Organifi - Save 20% at http://organifi.com/shrugged   Connect with us: Work with an Active Life Coach like Larry: http://activeliferx.com/shrugged Find Larry @larry_thehuman Find Dr. Sean @DrSeanPastuch ---------------------------------------------------------------- Show notes: http://www.shruggedcollective.com/alr-larryg ---------------------------------------------------------------- ► Subscribe to Shrugged Collective's Channel Here http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Shrugged Collective is a network of fitness, health and performance shows that help people achieve their physical and mental health goals.  Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first Barbell Shrugged podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast. Find Shrugged Collective and their flagship show Barbell Shrugged here: SUBSCRIBE ON ITUNES ► http://bit.ly/ShruggedCollectiveiTunes WEBSITE ► https://www.ShruggedCollective.com INSTAGRAM ► https://instagram.com/shruggedcollective FACEBOOK ► https://facebook.com/barbellshruggedpodcast TWITTER ► http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged

What's up everybody, welcome back to Active Life Radio on the Shrugged Collective Network. I'm Dr. Sean Pastuch, I'm your host and today's guest is Larry Geyer. Larry is a one-on-one Active Life coach and today what Larry is going to talk about is how he continues to bring his clients who he was working with in person before starting working at Active Life value, both working with them in person and now in many cases, working with them online, despite the fact that they live in the exact same town as him. What is the value of working with a coach online when that coach could be with you in person?

I think that one of the things in the industry that gets a negative stigma when it comes to online coaching is the person's not there. And there's a lot of people who are online just writing workouts for people and checking in really quickly and then checking out just as quickly for much longer. On today's show, I'm going to talk to Larry about how he's been able to bring even more value to his clients with less FaceTime than he was able to bring them when they worked together two, three, even more times per week. Before we get to that, I want you guys to know this show is sponsored by my friends at Organifi. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com. If you've ever listened to this show, you know

I like the gold juice, the gold drink, whatever the correct term is, the gold one, the one with the turmeric and the reishi in it that you drink warm before you go to bed. At least that's what I do. It makes me feel great. I know I'm getting the anti-inflammatory properties that I want, and it's become a ritual that actually helps me get tired and fall asleep before I normally would. So if you're interested in having that kind of experience for yourself, head to Organifi, that's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com. Organic, fresh, quality ingredients as close as you're going to get to eating the actual food.

And it tastes great. You don't have to worry about sugar or sugar alcohols. It's a phenomenal product. Organifi.com. Use the code SHRUGGED at checkout for 20% off. That's it. Let's get you to the show. Hey, Larry.

What's up, Sean? I don't know. What's up with you? It's a good day, man. It is a good day. It's going from 60 to 30 in like three hours today. That did happen, didn't it? Middle of the day. Love it. Oh, that's going to happen. We're in the process. We're 45, so we're halfway there. Awesome. That is not that cool. What are you going to do? Welcome to Living in New York. So I wanted to have you on today. You've been on before and we've talked about clients who you've worked with at Active Life. But what I wanted to do today is kind of make a little bit of a pivot. And I wanted to talk to you about the way that you've been able to

continue to provide value to your clients who you have worked with in person, who you now work with either in person and online or only online. Because I think that there's a concern out there for a lot of people that there's no way a coach could help me online the same way they help me in person. Yes. So would you help us with that? So first of all, can you take us through your story as a trainer to now? Sure. So I was working at New York Sports Club,

which is a pretty widespread commercial gym. For those of you on the West Coast, they have it at New York Sports Club, which is a pretty widespread commercial gym. For those of you on the West Coast, they have it in New York, Philly, Boston, and D.C., I believe. Yeah. Big franchise owned by Town Sports International. Pretty standard commercial gym. They got the turf. They're happy with all the weights. They got most of everything that you need.

Picture what you would consider Globo Gym. Yes. That's it. um i loved it there man for for my town this was like the place to be for me this was exactly the facility i'd always wanted to be in they had all the cool toys i could practice all my stuff they have the kind of area that i want and they have a really really large membership base so i just get lots of exposure all I need to do is crush it publicly and people come and talk to me. It's the dream. It's great. Um, yeah, I worked there for, for four years and change and January 1st of this year, I quit because I realized that one, I don't want to make 38 cents on every dollar that I'm generating because that's what my split is.

And two, I don't want to spend 25% more time than I would like because I'm making 38 cents on every single dollar. And I need to try to accumulate as many working hours as possible just so I could pay bills. I show up tired. I have less time to learn on my own. I have less time to become a better coach aside just the time spent with clients. So for me, I needed a better solution, not only for myself, but also for clients because they were getting this kind of stressed out, worn out version that I hated presenting most of the time

because I'm giving a hundred percent, even when I'm stressed and I'm tired. And so it's mostly, it's mostly on my end that I'm feeling that. Well, and the other thing is I think a hundred percent of your best effort when you're stressed and tired is going to be more like 75, 80% of your capacity. So someone, they're not paying for 75, 80% capacity. They're paying for the whole thing, right? That's what they were getting. And so even though I thought it was this kind of noble thing to just get after as many client sessions as I possibly could, because I want to make a lot of money in this industry and, and I want to have the opportunity to do as much as I can for people. I was actually being selfish because they were getting less of me. So when you say you were being selfish, you mean that in a sense of you were just going to grind

because you thought that that was the right thing to do for them. They need you to be there. They need your attention. They need your attention. They need your energy. But in reality, it was you who needed those things to be present because you need to turn a paycheck. Is that what you're saying? Yes.

So first of all, I don't have a negative connotation with the word selfish. We all need to be healthfully selfish, right? I don't do anything because I don't like it. Right. Also like, I mean,

also because you need it, not just about wants a mother can't nourish her kid. If she's not well nourished, she needs to take care of you first. I firmly believe in that. But so for both ends, I was being selfish because I wanted to crush it financially doing something that I thought I could be excellent at. But also I was like, hey, they need me and I need to be there and I need to be able to show up for them because this is what they paid for. But like you said, they were getting a watered down version of what I really could be. Okay, so you end up deciding to leave the gym because you understood that this is it.

I can't see more clients and this is the most money I'm going to be able to make. This amount of money is not enough. And by the way, I'm not doing a phenomenal job for my clients like I would like to be. Yes. So you leave. What happens next? So it was pretty rough because I didn't really have many options. There is a public rec center here that is this dreary, drippy, leaky, rusty, hole in the wall, little closet.

The ground slopes. The ground slopes. Every, and when I say every every i mean both barbells are warped yes and rusty right potholes and the it's it sucks it's like a back alley illegal doctor clinic it's it's bad dude uh 90 of the content of this gym is machines that i would never use and never encourage anyone to use um leg extensions, ab curls on a selectorize, all kinds of stuff like that. All that stuff. All that stuff. Peck fly machine. But you got to have the peck fly.

Well, it depends on what you're doing with it. And yeah, and there's a dumbbell rack and there are two cable columns. And one of those columns works smoothly. There's a pull-up bar. And that's about it. There's a rower. And so my only option is a massive downgrade in terms of facility, right? I need to convince these people, okay, so I'm leaving. You should come with me. And the place that I'm taking you sucks. Oh,

and, and I'm raising my rates. Right. Well well here's the other thing because i think that when when when gym owners and coaches listen to this there's there's a nice big divide right and we've seen this at our workshops where gym owners are like what do you mean you're leaving and i and your client should come with you like you're supposed to keep your clients here in the gym and when coaches hear that they're like i'm gonna leave my gym and take my clients with me too and we've talked about this with with gym owners who attend our workshops. Why is it that you felt like your client should come with you? And why is it that it wasn't a do more for the gym? Like what? Let's get the elephant out in the open here. For gym owners who are listening to this,

I would have loved, loved to stay at New York Sports Club club i would have loved for them to incentivize me staying at work at new york sports club there was zero culture when you asked for it yes there's zero culture i was wearing the same shirt as the 45 year old hungover potbelly dude who smelled like a distillery who had an old lady on the leg extension machine with zero respect for tempo or anything like that making her knees worse than they were. And I was making, I was getting paid 38 cents of all the money that I was generating. There's, I would have loved to stay there. I mean, you say generating what that means is you went and found clients on the floor and turn them into your clients. I spent the time, the unpaid time and energy to find people who would be a good fit to sell them

and money went into the gym first. It's not like you get paid and then you pay the gym something. It's money goes to the gym first and then I get paid and then the IRS takes their bid. The IRS takes their bid and then you get paid. Right. So it wasn't even 38. No, it was less than that. So what we're talking, right, it's 38% before taxes. So what we're talking about is somewhere between $10,000 and $15,000 a month worth of business that I'm generating into the sports club, and I'm walking away with 38% of that before tax. So this is the place where I knew there were 5,000 members.

I probably knew 4,000 of them by name. Some of them I knew their family members' names, what kind of pet they had. I knew what kind of exercises they liked to do. I enjoyed them as people. This is the place where both as a mover myself a lover of physical culture and as a professional I was born from right this is this is where my career started. I'm here talking to you right now because I started doing this stuff there. This was my home. It felt like that and the people there felt like my family and I would have loved to be there but it was impossible for me to do that because I was sucking as a person who could show up powerfully as I wanted to.

And what I was making sounds great for someone in the middle of Oklahoma, New York where I live, not cutting it at all. So I needed to figure something out. And I needed to come up with something more valuable because there's zero chance that you're going to take people and say, Hey, I'm going to take you to a place that absolutely sucks and you're going to see me less and I'm going to charge you more and not have them think that you're insane unless you are showing them something that is more valuable, right? Objectively, everything on paper looks lousy. So I needed to come up with new products and services that were going to make

them feel like they were getting an Ivy league education compared to what I was giving them. And how much of, how much for you in that moment was, well, damn, why wasn't I already giving this to people? Can you, can you say that again? Yeah. So you care about your clients for you. This is not a game of look, you pay me, I give a service, and that's it. You actually are emotionally invested in the success of your clients. Was there a moment when you realized, I could do more for them, and I haven't been doing it, and I need to charge them more in order to do it? Yeah, and that had occurred to me over the course of a year. I just didn't understand exactly how.

Well, so what I'm getting at with that is I think a lot of trainers who are going to hear this potentially, because I know our listenership here on this show is not all trainers, but there's a large percent who are. They would feel guilty as if they hadn't provided the service that they needed to provide. So now they're just going to add this for free. Why is it that you felt like despite downgrade of facility, despite downgrade perceptively of FaceTime, I'm going to charge more as I add the service? Yeah. Well, here's what I knew. I knew that they weren't there for the facility. I knew that they were there for me. I also know that with 25 square feet and a dumbbell, I can give someone everything that they need for two months, maybe more. I can dial it in that way.

And I'm there to give people what they really need, not all the time what they really want. So I know that I had the skills. And I also know that if I'm going to be able to continue to spend the time and the energy to be able to actually get better and give my clients more, I need to be more comfortable as a person, right? I need to not sweat getting a coffee if I want one in the morning. So by that, you don't mean like sweat because it's hot. You mean sweat because financially you're not sure you can afford to buy the cup of coffee, right? I don't, I don't want to have to, I don't want to have to face my Americano in the morning and worry about putting the change in the tip jar. I want to be able to do that happily because I really, really liked the person behind the bar. So I need to come up with something that is going to be better for them that they don't feel like they

have to accept, but that they're eager to opt into. I need to say, Hey, I've spent a lot of time thinking about how little I've actually been giving you compared to what I want and could be giving you, right? So I realized that I've been giving you this and you should be getting all of this. And frankly, it's my fault for not having taken the time to consider how to put that together. But the truth is the amount of time that I have hasn't allowed me to do that. And so for that reason, these are the moves that I'm making.

Here's what you're going to get from it. And here's why I think it's going to help you five times faster and in a five times more impactful way than I've previously been doing. Now, you did that and you had how many clients at the time? So I had 25 that I was seeing in person. I let like 40% of them go when I was making the shift. So 10. So I just decided that these 10 clients didn't really need me anymore. They wanted to.

It was a luxury for them. It was more a therapy session, which is valuable. But they really just wanted someone to hold their hand and to say, oh, I have my workout with Larry today more than they actually needed me to help them solve a big problem. So they're gone. So they're gone. There were 15 left.

There were 15 left, and I did the math. So what I did was, so I had taken our immersion course like a year and a half prior to this, and I had seen massive success with it. And I knew that I could offer something bigger and better, and what I was trying to do is take these packages that the sports club was offering. I was trying to jam my methods into it.

And what I needed was just to totally reformat everything so I can deliver people what they needed, when they needed, and the right dose that they needed. So I came up with new products and services. I was going to see people online as they needed. I was going to see them in person as they needed. I was going to check in with them. And this looks different for everyone. I'm not selling anyone anything more than they need. I'm not selling anyone anything less than they need. And this was a hard lesson that frankly, you helped me see. And once I started to do it, it changed everything. I did the math. I needed 60% of them. So what was that? I needed nine of them, nine of them to come with me in order to break even

with what I was doing at the sports club. Meaning you were charging, essentially, what is that, 40% more? Yes. Okay, so you needed 60% in order to break even. Yes, so I was going to be more expensive, and I needed 60% of them to break even.

I talked to all of them over the course of two weeks, fingers crossed. I think we sat on your front porch and I showed you the spreadsheets about what they needed, the conversation that I was going to have with them, what they were going to be getting more of and why. And, uh, after talking to all of them, a hundred percent of them said yes, without batting an eyelash. They were just, they said

it in a way that kind of blew me away because it was a, it was the first time that I really understood implicit trust, right? It was the first time that I understood off. I told this person to jump off this cliff. They'd say, you're just going to be there, right? How nervous were you going into those conversations? The most nervous I've ever been. The most nervous I've ever been because not only more than, more than my career, I've never been worried that I was going to be able to be okay financially, even if I didn't know how, but more than that, it was knowing that if these people say no, it's because I didn't effectively communicate how important it was. And I know that they're not going to get anything close to what they need if they stop working with me. Right. That was the scary part.

The nervousness is not that you can't find new clients. The nervousness is that these people who need what you're giving to them, who are getting great progress from you are going to stop getting that. Yeah, man, dude, I was saying, I was saying no to clients. I was turning people away all the time and I let 40% of them go. It's not because I needed them. It's because they needed me. And I knew that if I couldn't effectively communicate why they needed to follow me, they were going to suffer. And I was going to suffer emotionally and psychologically knowing that I let them down. So they all said yes. The gym lost like $14,500, $15,000 worth of revenue that month. And again, to gym owners, I wish I could have kept it there.

I would have loved to stay there, but everything about the situation forced me away. We talk about this all the time, and if you guys listen to the Active Life podcast, one of the things that we're going to be doing that I'm very excited about is coming in January, we're going to be transitioning it to being more the business side of fitness. And when I say the business side of fitness, I mean the soft skills and the hard skills so that people who are being sold training sessions from coaches can understand why that's happening. And also so that coaches understand how to sell them, how to price them and how gym owners can incentivize coaches to stay and build a culture inside. So I'm really excited about that transition that we're going to be making on the ActiveLive podcast.

But the point, the reason why I brought that up is because gym owners are going to see that as, what do you mean you want it to be incentivized more? This is what they felt like they could afford to pay you. And we talk about how they can do that better. No, I love it. And I mean, look, after the four years I was there and hearing both members, but sorry, both clients and non-clients, just other gym members come up and tell me what I was doing differently, doing exceptionally. It was only after four years of hearing all that, that I started to understand what I was doing well and what I was doing well, aside from the technical stuff was all the non-technical stuff. It was the way I stood. It was the way I looked at people. It was the way I talked to them. It was the fact that the only time my eyes ever left my client was the two times to glance at the clock. It was the fact that I had never been seen with a phone on the floor, much less my hand. It was all the stuff that just relates to demonstrating how attentive I was and

how much I cared about getting people what they wanted. And no snacks, no coffee. Yeah. I mean, it had never been seen. And frankly, all that stuff never occurred to me. And this is just tip of the iceberg stuff, right? It runs deep. And it's only after hearing all this that I realized what I was doing well. And now I understand that's why they didn't bat an eyelash.

Those are, it's not necessarily just tip of the iceberg. They're symptoms of the person. Yeah, that's well said. So perfect. So it's like, so you mean to say that that's a reflection of what the deeper intention is? Yeah. Okay.

Right? Like, so the person who decides that they can drink a cup of coffee while they're training a client is also the person who is doing that session for themselves. Now, I'm not making that a specific finding. It's a generalization by any stretch of the imagination. The reality is if you're there for your client deeply, like really thinking and intensely trying to get that client their outcomes, you know a cup of coffee is just not in the cards during this 45 minutes to an hour.

They need to know that all of your attention and intention is for them. Yes. I mean, frankly, if you have a cup of coffee, it's because A, you didn't prep well starting from the night before with your own energy and your habits and two it means that your energy and your habits are more important a client's never seen me yawn and i've had to right it's really uncomfortable to try i don't know if you guys have ever tried to hold you on

it's brutal right so that's the point and i think you're you're totally right there that what's more important in the moment and the day in the week in the month and and it's them so that's the point and i think you're you're totally right there that what's more important in the moment and the day in the week in the month and and it's them so that you could be okay so you described changing your services to your clients what was the difference like what was happening on december 30th and what was happening on january 2nd okay so first and foremost part of the conversation was hey when i really really sit with where you're at What i've been giving you Is good stuff, but it's not exactly what you need You've made so much progress first of all You don't need to be spending as much money as you are on my time

My time is the most expensive thing, right? So you don't need to be spending your money on my time You need to see me x number of times a week based on how you've been doing And the rest you're also ready to start doing more. A lot for a lot of these people, the only time that they were exercising during the week was the once or twice that they were seeing me. And that's not, that's just not going to cut it right for someone who needs to drastically improve how well their spine moves. You need to be spending 10, 15 minutes on that every single day. It doesn't need to, you don't need to be spending a hundred to $125 to see me, to have you do some cat cows so what i could offer them now was a

really really awesome kind of spread of stuff that they're getting from me in different tiers of attention and and juiciness so they get to see me x number of times a month i get to write their entire month of workouts so now someone goes from working out four times a month to working out eight to 12 to 16 times a month. They're cultivating self-reliance. They're cultivating self-efficacy. They're cultivating confidence. They're demonstrating competence that they've learned from our sessions. Now they get more workouts. It costs less for them. And I get more because it costs me less time. So let's break that down. First of all, one of the things that you said a while back that we now use as, um, like almost like a construct for coaches to understand when personal training is necessary,

when one-on-one coaching is necessary is the client needs to develop competence and confidence. What does that mean? The only thing that people are missing or that they think they're missing in order to start doing all the things that they want in order for them to objectively, safely start doing the things they want from a professional standpoint is competence and how to do movements. If you want to be in a group fitness class, if you want to go for a hike, if you want to play baseball, whatever you want to do, you need competence in how to do the thing you want to do. And you need to have confidence that you can show up and do it in whatever the setting is. A lot of people are savage athletes, but are too shy to go to a group class. They're missing some confidence in their competence, right? So the only thing that in-person sessions are for is to give confidence and competence so that

people can live whatever kind of life they want. So I think that that shifts the paradigm a little bit because when people think about buying one-on-one training, one of the things that I think holds them back from doing it is they're thinking about, I'm going to have to pay for this forever and I can't afford $200 a week for the rest of my life. Dude, it's a lot. The first, the first thing that I tell people is set expectations by saying, Hey, here's my plan for you as quickly as is reasonable for you. I need you to go from a place of low self-reliance to a place of high self-reliance to a place of high dependency on me to low dependency on me. The faster and more effectively I do that, of course we prioritize effectively first, the better I've done my job. I don't want you to need me. Wanting me is a different story. And if that's something

that you can afford yourself and we both have the time for it and it's okay, fine. But more than anything else, I don't want you to need me. You're in a place right now because you need someone to do something. That's a disadvantageous position. You don't want to have to need something from someone. Wanting it and having both people want to give it to each other is different. You don't want to need anything from anyone. So the faster I can get you to not need me, the better I've done my job, the more valuable that is. And the faster you can start living a life where you feel awesome about all the things that you're doing. Okay. So how do you know when someone has achieved competence and confidence? It depends on the movement.

Depends on what their goals are, right? If someone wants to, if there's a certain exercise, if there's certain skill that they're demonstrating to the best of my eyes ability, as soon as I can see that they're consistently doing it well with less and less and less queuing, when they're asking the right questions, when they're coaching themselves, when they're saying, Hey, I really wanted to do this today, but I felt like this. So I realized that this was actually the right thing to do. That's like one of the biggest ones ever. That's when I'm starting to realize, Hey man, you don't really need to pay for me anymore. You're crushing it. Let's go to the cheapest thing I could offer you.

So we could just stay in touch and just let me let you know that you're on the right track because you're guiding yourself and you're winning. Right. Okay. So now you get this person who has made, I mean, I believe the competence and confidence stage is where you're going right okay so now you get this person who has made i mean i believe the competence and confidence stage is where you're going to have the greatest return meaning you know you're you're if you've never bench pressed before all of a sudden you're bench pressing 135 pounds and and it's like what if i could get gains like that in anything i'd be thrilled but that's the first phase of anything 100 you just learned how to play chess you didn't even know what a pawn or a rook was well you're going to go from being an abject disaster on the chess

board to mildly competent very fast and then everyone's going to shit on you for years and eventually you're going to win a game um so what happens next Like they're out of that. They're high on this. You know, it's like, wow, I'm making so much progress. And then it almost feels if delivered improperly, like you're pulling the rug off my underneath them. Yeah. So it's a transition, right? So the first of all, the thing is, hey, we don't want to spread these sessions out. I want you to get in your brain, in your body, everything that you need to be able to handle yourself in your life as quickly as possible. Why would you want confidence and competence over the course of a year? If you could have it over the course of three months, who could argue that that's better? Right. Assuming that it sticks and it was done well.

Right. So it's not competence and confidence if it doesn't stick. Right. Exactly. So if I can make that happen in less time, that's definitely more valuable. And it's up to the coach who's afraid of wanting the person's sessions to run out and then have to sell them more if they're not sure that they're going to be able to. To say, hey, you don't need to spread this out. We need to see each other three times a week so that in eight weeks from now, you have all the skills you need to move to the next phase. Right. And the next phase is something that costs you less time. You the coach. You the coach less time that can therefore be priced less for them that they're going

to want to opt into. For example, here's how I would take someone that's totally a novice to someone who's totally independent over the course of a year, maybe nine months. First and foremost, depending on your background, you are seeing me 24 times in person so that I can make sure you know your shit. That's over the course of two months. Yes. Over the course of two months, I need to know that you're doing, depending on schedule, maybe it's over the course of three, most, most. Ideally, it's an eight to 10 weeks. After that, I'm going to assess how well you've learned. And if I've

done my job well, you don't need to buy another 24 sessions. You can start doing things on your own. Now you can buy some hybrid version of what I offer where you can see me a number of times in person per month, and you can start doing workouts on your own that I've written for you based on how much I've learned about you over the course of 24 workouts. There's a lot of information that you could collect as a coach over the course of 24 workouts so that you know, hey, this is what your client needs. This is what they don't need. This is what they're good at. This is what they're not good at. You could start writing a program based on that.

If not, get some programming skills. But it's all good. Get some assessment skills. Now they get to pay less money. You get to spend way less time. So now you're actually making more money per hour. So you're making more money per hour as a coach because it takes you, what, an hour to write the whole week? Yes.

Well, now it takes me an hour to write a month. Okay. So it takes what an hour to write the whole week yes uh well now it takes me an hour a month okay so it takes you an hour to write a month and the client is paying for what two or three hours worth of time yes right but they're getting a full month's worth of workouts where previously they would get nothing they're getting more right they're doing more with their bodies they're feeling better they're seeing all metrics of their fitness their mood their mental space change and it costs them less but you're making more for your time. And what are check-ins looking like with you? Um, it'll be, they have full access to, to just text me. They understand that I'm not necessarily going to text them back within 20, uh, if it's urgent, they could call or text me

within 24 hours. Um, the platform that I use online, they could expect, um, if it's just feedback on their workouts, they could expect that back by the end of the week. But I like to be pretty available because it lets them know that what they're doing is right or wrong at a rate that actually allows them to make change faster. It's also the more unavailable you seem, the more they want your availability. Correct. So if you're widely available to people and you explain to them, look, this is how I'm going to get back to you,

but I am always available to you. Something that's always stricken me is I've always thought about how if a mom, let's say a mom takes her toddler to the park, right? And the toddler knows that mom is sitting on the bench and knows where mom on the bench is. The toddler is going to run all over the park in such a way that mom's going to have to run after him mom on the bench is, the toddler is going to run all over the park in such a way that mom's going to have to run after him to find him to

make sure he's not doing, he's doing okay. If toddler looks back at the bench and mom is not on the bench, that toddler is going to plop down on his ass and cry and wonder where mom is. True. So the more I can let my clients know that I am deeply and powerfully present for them early on, the more they can start to trust themselves to explore their own capacity to grow and develop their competence and confidence and self-coach and learn. And they won't need me as much down the road. And the crazy thing is we never really go out of being toddlers. Yes. Like we are still toddlers.

Yeah, it's great. I love it. Yeah. And what I find interesting about what you just described is at this point, now your clients are learning how to help themselves in an environment in which previously they were totally foreign to. So they do that. And now you risk as a coach, then be like, I'm good, in their life, categorically, with you than they have with anyone else, perhaps in the previous 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 years. Not just physically. Right. So how does somebody who is sitting in their car listening to this right now or sitting in their house listening to this right now or walking, whatever, how do they go from the position that they're in to working with somebody like you, working with one of our coaches at Active Life, never having had the first phase of competence and confidence building with us, going straight to online coaching? Does that work?

How does that work? It works as long as there is the very, look, it works because we do it, right? We do it with athletes all over the country and, uh, and, and world. And the reason it works is because we set expectations early on, like, Hey, look, skill is going to be totally, totally difficult to coach remotely. You could post videos. I have a pretty good eye and I can help people, but I'm not going to be able to help you with skill online as much as I am going to be able to help you understand the content and the process of what you're doing. So ideally, they have someone to help them. Worst case scenario, someone is in the middle of Idaho. There is a garage full of

equipment and they have no one in a 50 mile radius to be able to help them coach skill in person. Worst case scenario is that they submit videos to you so that you can coach them best as possible. Nothing that they are doing, assuming you're doing your job well, is going to put them in a worse position than where they were. Right. So I just want to make sure that we clear up the, the, who we're talking to here. If you live in the middle of nowhere, Idaho, New York, Oklahoma, California, it doesn't matter. If there's nobody within 50 miles of you who can help you, we can try to help you online. It's just going to take longer. And there's nothing that we're going to do that's going to make you worse because we don't take clients on who we can't help.

That said, most of the clients who we help, the way that we help them is by doing things with them that they are already competent and confident in. Making them more confident in them, maybe more competent in them, but by progressing their ability to do those things at a high level without having to make major changes to their skill. Part of our belief is we can use the level of skill that you've used to get yourself in trouble to get you out of trouble. Right? So we're not going to teach you fancy stuff that you haven't already done on your own to get you out of pain. It's unnecessary. Right.

Okay. So what has your experience been taking clients on who you never met before, didn't have the opportunity to build this kind of trust in person with online? What is that on-ramp of personality been like for you? It's really exciting because there have been a ton of different people, all different shapes, sizes, backgrounds, who just want to not hurt anymore and be able to do the things that they really enjoy.

So it's really, for me, the first month, the first two months is just showing them how to change the way they think about exercise and themselves so that they can stop exercising compulsively and start looking at their bodies and their fitness as something that they're using as a tool to help them enjoy an awesome hundred years of life. Right.

That said, if you have a competition in a very demanding sport that inherently beats the crap out of you, can we keep you together so you can do it? Yeah. But this always comes down to a conversation about short and long-term values and short and long-term goals. And once they can wrap their head around like, hey, I can do whatever I want

as long as I understand both the positive and the negative consequences and coach and athlete are on the same page and both are willing to show up to do that, then it's going to be a win. And I think that one of the cool things, one of the things that makes me proud, I should say, about our company and about the way that we work with clients is that when we determine that, you know what, maybe this is the most that

we can do for you from a distance. Or before we even take them, we're not going to be able to help you. We refer them to somebody else who can. So we've referred people back to their CrossFit coach. We refer people to personal trainers. We've referred people to doctors. And in one case, you actually refer one of your clients to a functional patterns gym. Why, why, how do you decide that somebody needs to be referred out? What are they, what is going to happen? That's going to have you prompt and say, yeah, I think that this needs to happen elsewhere and in person. If the combination of what I know and what can be done remotely is not lining up to solve the client's problem as I see it needs to be solved, I'm not the person for them. And they need to find someone who can in person or remotely or however can be done better

needs to be done. I mean, I don't, if I go ahead and keep a client on to give them 50% results because I want to keep that client in our system, it's a loss for both of us. They don't get what they needed and we get a lousy reputation either because we deliberately kept someone on and we were con artists or because we didn't do the job effectively. I would much rather send someone out and have this person say, Hey, Larry was keen enough to recognize that I needed this. He actually solved my problem. This guy didn't. If Larry didn't say anything, I wouldn't have had my problem solved. So it reflects really well on

us for us to be able to say, we're not the people for you right now. How often do you find that happens? Um, I haven't seen, I haven't seen, I'd say five, somewhere between five to 10%, 10% of people by the end of six months. I know whether or not what I'm doing, it was going to be something that's going to help them over the course of a year or not. Yeah. So just so you guys know, if you're listening to this, Larry only sees five or 10% of his people at the end of six months, not being fully, um, what's the word I'm looking for for, fully satisfied with what they've got, right? Because the rest of the people who would have had that experience didn't get to buy.

They came and they spoke to somebody, they spoke to me, they spoke to Nick, they spoke to Pam, our team who take the calls with the people who are interested in signing up. And they were told that we're not the right company for you because we don't want you to sign up with us. If you're not going to get the results that we know we can get for people who are a good fit and 30% of people end up in that boat, 30%. That's why when our coaches do the job, they're looking at more like 5% after six months, not being fully satisfied with the

outcomes that they got or knowing a hundred percent that they're fully on the path to having the outcomes that they want. Um, and then making the appropriate referral. Yeah. And I mean, sometimes it's a really hard conversation because the client that you were just talking about, um, I had worked with them, I don't know, I think it was somewhere between six and eight months and, uh, phenomenal athlete, by the way, very high level athlete, a very

high level CrossFit athlete. And at this point, the conversation becomes, I have to be totally frank with you based on the way your body is presenting. I mean, I'm throwing all my tools at this guy, all my best tricks, consulting with several of the doctors on staff on a weekly and a monthly basis about this guy. I'm exhausting all of my options. And the conversation becomes, I see this is going one of two ways. I think you need to take a year off of CrossFit so that you can get your body in the condition that it wants to be. Because your training right now is perpetuating and even worsening certain imbalances that are going on, discrepancies. Let me choose a full year.

Let me finish this and I'll get back to that. The other option was the best I can do was keep you kind of together so you don't break while you keep doing what you're doing. I don't think that I'm going to be able to get you in the musculoskeletal condition that you want from a health standpoint while you pursue the performance that you want. The reason I took a year is because I think, first of all, to physically be a totally different kind of mover is going to take a lot of work. He was, what is he, 35? And there's a lot of stuff that's going on in a joint and a musculotendinous level that needs to change over the course of a year. The second is for his head, right? To realize that I don't need to do this to be okay.

And this is a guy that I resonate with strongly because he just wants challenge. He just wants to, if he's not on the edge of his capacity, he's not settled. And that resonates with me strongly. I can, I deeply understand where he's coming from there. And in order for him to be able to do that for the rest of his life, what she wants to do, he needed to change something fundamentally now. And it was a really hard conversation that we, he said he needed to take a week off of speaking with me. I told you, told him that I totally respect the space, get back to me. And he went out and he tried the school that I recommended that was totally, totally outside the box of what he does. Um, thought they were a bunch of quacks and I haven't followed up

too much cause I think he's still working on it, but I think he's starting to understand that I need to do things a little bit differently and not sacrifice the satisfaction that I can get from physical culture. I think for him, it was an overdose. I think, I think it was, um, where you sent him may do great things. And I haven't, I haven't actually spoken to him about how he's doing it. Um, but I believe that where you sent him has efficacy and they do a good job. I'm talking about the functional patterns, Jim, that we sent him to. I also believe that he just needed a massive deload.

So if we sent him to a running club, he would have done great. I think he would have done great too. Those conversations are hard, but I want people who are listening to this to know we have those hard conversations. And there's a reason why working for us on our staff is you're either a doctor first or you're not. We don't really care. But you've taken our education, which means you've taken our immersion course, you've been to our workshop, and then you've gone through almost six months of internship working with one client just to make sure that you are capable of having the conversations with people, that you're capable of doing things for them and not for you, and that you represent the company appropriately. And not everybody who we bring on makes it through that internship process.

Yeah. One of my favorite parts about this company is that even though we're all still learning how to do it and we all still get frustrated with the rate of change with certain things that we are all 100 on board with being able to have the deep, hard, honest conversations. One of my favorite policies, period, in life is radical honesty. And one of my favorite parts about being part of this company is that we do that not only with each other, but with our clients and everyone else that we talk to about this company. We're dedicated to truth as we best understand it.

And that's high on my list of values, if top three or one so it's it's also important that you understand how to deliver that truth yes right i mean which is skill set all right radical honesty does not mean just tell people you look fat in that right right right it's about it's about getting to the the deepest truth as you see it and communicating a well that makes them happy that you said it yes which is that's, that's rough. I'm still working on it. That's all right. Well, I think that this was, I don't think we need to go any further. I think you did a great job of elucidating how working with somebody remotely, whether

it's somebody who's local, who's working with you remotely, or somebody who's across the country working with you remotely can, can have massive value in regards to the progress that they can make and the amount of money they need to spend. Yeah, I mean, the bottom line is that if the coach is clear about what the athlete wants and needs and the coach is clear that she or he can deliver that, then go and you're going to make progress and progress tastes good.

So you should get some. I love it. Larry, where can they find you? Larry underscore the human. And that's about it. I have a phone number too, but I'm not going to give that out. All right, cool. We'll make sure we get that in the show notes.

Larry, thanks for coming on, man. Thanks, Dr. Sean. That's going to be a wrap for this episode of Active Life Radio on the Shrugged Collective Network. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did, please head to wherever you listen to podcasts and leave us a five-star rating as well as a great review. If you really love this episode,

make sure you're sharing it with the people who need to hear it. Value unshared is value wasted. And of course, if you're looking to get more from us, whether it's coaching courses, one-on-one coaching from one of our staff members to help you get out of pain without going to the doctor or missing the gym, head to ActiveLifeRx.com slash shrugged. We'll see you then.

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