Barn Burner: Boomer & Pinder with Rhett Warrener - Calgary Flames Roster Cuts, Goalie Battle & More | FN Back Burner - September 26th, 2025

Episode Date: September 27, 2025

FULL EPISODE | FN Back Burner: Pike & MikeTIMESTAMPS ⏰- Pike & Mike Vacations (3:00)- Intro Prospect Talk - Battaglia (9:00)- Flames Cuts (19:00)- Poirier (23:00)- Waivers (27:00)- So Many Bodies (30:30)- Rory Kerins (39:00)- Defensemen (45:00)- Wranglers (54:30)- Flames BAD this year?? (56:00)- Honzek (1:05:00)- Barkov & Panthers (1:10:00)- McDavid (1:14:00)Subscribe to @Flames_Nation on Youtube🚨➡️ / @flames_nation 🔥 After Burner ➡️ • FlamesNation Afterburner 📲 Follow us:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fnbarnburner/X (Twitter): https://x.com/barnburnerfn?lang=en🎧 Listen on:Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/be/podcast/barn-burner-boomer-pinder-with-rhett-warrener/id1648562889Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3Mc6Qd5U22R2zbMlQ7RxIiBARN BURNER BLONDE https://originbrewing.myshopify.comFLAMESNATION MERCHhttps://nationgear.ca/collections/flamesnationBARN BURNER SHORTShttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLj_bcGtvvo-cW2DHEDZ6dEO5ePDmlhZc9SHOUTOUT TO OUR SPONSORS!!👍🏼 Powered by @bet365. Whatever the moment, it’s Never Ordinary at bet365. Download the App today and use promo code:NATION. http://www.bet365.ca/ SHOUTOUT TO OUR SPONSOR!!👍🏼 Platinum Mitsubishi: https://www.platinummitsubishi.com/Reach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us!Producer: Jack Haverstock & Yasmin Lee#NHLPlayoffs #Hockey #HockeyTalk #Playoffs #StanleyCup #EdmontonOilers #StanleyCupFinal #NHL #CalgaryFlames #NFL #NFLFootball Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Happy Friday, everybody. You made it through the week. You've, I guess, made it through most of the NHL off season because we are back from our, what is it, court mandated vacation. And we are in our studio here in Mardaloupe. We fought through all the traffic and the outdoor festivals to get in here. And it is another edition now of the Back Burner show with myself, Mike Gould, and of course, Ryan Pike.

Pike, we've both been deep in the wilderness at various points this summer. we have finally reconvened here in Mardaloupe on the eve of the flames solidifying their roster. They made a lot of progress towards it today. How was your summer? Pretty good. I mean, they're down to 38 players, so they still got 16 cuts to make. So I wouldn't really say that they've made their decision. They're on their way.

They're on their way. I think we'll get into the nitty-grady of the assignments when we get to the meat of this year program. but, you know, it's when you got 58 players to start camp, and then you get rid of anyone that is on a tryout or doesn't have an NHL contract, and then you go, oh, golly, you still got a lot of bodies. So I think the players who have found themselves elsewhere, especially some of the younger guys, you know, Macy O Phillips, Hunter Lang, Jacob Attaglia, especially, I think those guys are going to take the experience

they gained from even just a few days in NHL camp. I'll serve them well. But from here on out, it's now time for them to get down to business. And I think the rosters we see from here and out for the preseason games will look much more resemblance of an NHL group than we've seen to this point. Yeah, they've certainly differentiated things, especially as far as their training camp groups go. And of course, we got to mention this show is brought to you by Platinum Mitsubishi up at 2720, Barlow Trail Northeast and

you know we're going to have a special piece of content a little sneak peek from our buddy Pike's vacation over the summer if you're okay with that Pike we got to show we got to show you I think we do I think we do we got to I went to maybe the most unique sporting event I've ever been to and I bumped into someone with I guess I'd say a connection to our illustrious sponsor yeah yeah Pike was in Japan this summer pretty much the opposite of where I went on vacation

I'll get into that. And Pike met a very special person. We're going to post the photo. I think I just sent it to Yasmin and Jack. We got to get that up there at some point because it's just Pike with his with his double. He's run into his exact double on the streets of Japan. Where were you? You were like, I was in the Tokyo Dome at the finals or the semifinals of Japan's intercity

baseball tournament. So folks, if you, if you watch the Simpsons back in the day, you're aware that spring had a league of company softball teams for various establishments throughout Springfield. Japan kind of does the same thing with that, except it's countrywide and it's company teams throughout Japan. And the day I was there that after I was taking it a fine baseball game at the Tokyo dome, it featured a town that had a Mitsubishi mascot. So this is the official mascot of, I think, I believe it's a, it's a Kawah City.

I might have butchered the name. But yeah, it's the, the mascot there is the mascot of that city. And because they have a Mitsubishi factory there, he was decked out in all kinds of fun Mitsubishi carp. I forget, I know they've got two.

I think they make the outlanders at one of them. They make the Eclipse Cross and the RVR at the other. But in any event, that is just a wonderful. The text I sent, Mike, concluded this photo. And I think I met your boss.

My real boss was thrilled to hear and see that photo. The Maitlands were. We're just overjoyed to hear that not only was Pike doing on the Platinum Mitsubishi show, but he met maybe that was, I don't know if there's Jim of Mitsubishi, Joe Mitsubishi, Platinum Mitsubishi. That was the mascot of Okazaki City in Japan where they have a Mitsubi, I think the biggest, the second biggest Mitsubishi factory in Japan. That's, it's, it's just really something.

But they lost in the final to a paper company. Oh, oh, man. Well, in any event, Platinum Mitsubishi, 2720 Barlow Trail. Northeast head on up there for the 10-year warranty and some great service. In any event, we'll continue moving on. We're Pike. I went to Whitehorse this summer, which was really... I heard that you took in a Western League game and also the nightlife in Whitehorse.

The nightlife. Yeah. You could say, I mean, the concessions at the game were really, really bad, but the rest of it was pretty awesome. I did go to some really cool old-timey restaurants and bars at a Bison Burger. I somehow never had a Beisenberger before and they were really good. Highly recommend it. 30,000 people, really cool city. It kind of feels like the whole city is just like a national park.

I do like that you're wearing a white horse hoodie. Yeah, a white horse. That's some nice branding. This might be the first time I've ever seen you not wearing a Mississippi jacket of some kind of this program. It was really cool. There's actually a place up there called the Carcross Desert where you can, you know, it's all these sand dunes that were left behind from a, from a, lake that dried up like a thousand years ago.

So highly recommend it. Flights are cheap. Go up to Whitehorse. Really cool destination. So not a sponsor though. Maybe we'll work on that. So no Flames prospects up at the White Horse games.

It was Medicine Hat versus Colonna when I went up there. At that point, all the Flames prospects were still in Flames camp. It's true. It was what last week, week before? No. Yeah, two weeks ago. It was a Western League preseason game. That's right.

The Western League went up to do a couple of games. as as you've seen we the Western League has found really good hockey players pretty much everywhere in Canada and we're seeing more and more that we're getting some high quality young men and players from

Canada's north I can't I forget the name of the I forget the preferred nomenclature for the region but yeah the territories we've seen we've seen yellow knife we've seen white horse we've seen a lot of folks from some of the more northern communities

and so I think their idea was let's celebrate how big an awesome hockey is becoming in that region. Yeah. And it sounded like it was a good time. It was awesome. White horse is growing really fast. Like I'm,

I'm, it's a, like it's a legit city. I've got a lot of good things like Yellowknife too. I've never been. Never been. I'd love to go. I've,

I'm trying to knock them all off my list. But there was a certain Luke Warner, uh, playing for the medicine hat tigers when I was up there. Uh, no word on whether it's, uh, relation.

I'm here and hearing in my ear that it is a relation. It's, uh, the son of Rhett, uh, playing for, uh, for letting for the medicine hat tires.

He looked pretty good. That's right. We're in Robbing for years old number, though. We're in number 28, which was a little odd to see. Was he throwing speed hit checks? I didn't do a whole lot of watch in the actual game. I'll be honest with you. I was just sort of wandering around the rink.

But he looked good. He looked good from what I saw. The rucks both look good. I mean, it's obviously a young team now. Andrew Basha no longer playing for medicine hat. Gavin McKenna no longer playing for Medicine Hat. So it was fun, but it was more so for the, the vibes. Yeah, I mean, you know, the overall, the Western League has been a 19 year old

league, as they say. The, the bulk of a team's best players have been 19 year olds. And at least in the short term, we're going to see a lot of weird stuff happening in terms of talent inflows and outflows from the Canadian Junior League to college and back. And so, you know, in the next few years, at least, it's going to be a 17 and 18 year old league for, for a while. But, you know, I attended the hip and home opener. And, similar. It was, I think, the second Western League game for 13 different players. So out of 20 players dressed, they had seven guys that had played in the league before.

And, you know, I think that's, it's not a typical of what we're going to see over the next first month of the season. Well, Pike, we are firmly into the preseason here. We're halfway home. As far as the NHL is concerned. And, you know, you were mentioning, uh, just before we went live here, uh, certain flames prospects who, uh, you know, were here for a rookie camp, who were here for the start of camp have already. made their way back to junior. One of the rare guys who's going to be there for, you know, his 19-year-old, 20-year-old season is Jacob Taglia,

who has actually scored his first goal of the season and his first goal as captain of the Kingston Frontenax here tonight. He was just named captain. He's wearing the K and the seat. That's right. He's wearing two letters on the front of his sweater. He, uh, 47th captain in Kingston Frontenax history under head coach Troy Mann.

Uh, and he scored 40 goals last year for Kingston. He has his first of the year for the front knacks in their game. here tonight. Bataglia was never a guy though who was expected to make this year's edition of the Flames. He'll probably factor in big for the Wranglers next season. If you want to get an assessment of holy moly, the flames might have like a lot. You can never have too many prospects, but they're going to have some juggling to do. I present to you Jacob Bataglia, who had 40 goals, 90 points last year and in Flames Nation's

annual tabulation of the organization top prospects, he was seventh. This is a guy who played very good hockey for a very good. team and there's we just felt like there was six guys better than him so i think uh good for him for crack in the top 10 uh and i think he's he's the he's a guy that they have high expectations for he's i don't think it's unfair to expect him to be one of the top players in all of junior hockey this year especially in the interior league uh when you have 40 and 90 uh the obvious next spot is 50 and 100 so i think he's going to be someone that a lot of people have an eye out for he has a contract for next season.

So he, you know, barring anything unforeseen, he will be Wrangler in 2026. But in the time being, it's a nice chance for him to put a bow in his time in the Ontario League. Absolutely. And,

but yeah, one of the few guys, like we're, I have a suspicion that as we go forward, if there are guys in junior who get drafted by an NHL team, I think the, the regular rhythm is going to be, okay,

shortly thereafter we announce a commitment. And in this case, not the case. going back for junior. They're always going to be exceptions, but it already feels like it's trending that way. When I, when I interviewed Jacob Tatley at development camp,

his, his mindset was, I'm like, do you think about the college? He's like, nah, like he was a kid who grew up in Ontario, going to Jigger games and hoping he could play in the O HL someday.

And so I, you know, there's some guys who are like, man, I want to go to wherever I can be the best player. Some guys are like, I want to get, you know,

that sweet, sweet NL money. There's some guys that really want to get education like you know there's no one size fits all motivator for for young guys who are good at hockey but for for bataglet he just he really wanted to play in the oh and he thinks it's the best spot for him to develop and you know what he'd know better than i would so i'm not i wasn't i wasn't inclined to disagree with him but we're going to see you know all kinds of stuff this year a hundred hundred lang's another guy that uh i would imagine probably had some other options uh depending on what what was going on.

But he's heading back to the Saskatoon Blades. He split last year between Prince George and the blades. And he had to have having like 25 points. He basically doubled his production. And so, you know, if you double your production, it's probably a good environment for you.

So he's staying back. But yeah, the, the flames organization has three players in Canadian major junior, Bataglia Lang and Axel Hertig from the Hitman. And then one player who's playing in the USHL would be Macyo Phillips. That's right.

who as recording this is playing his first regular season game for the Green Bay Gamblers. He came to the flames in the third round of the draft. He was with the U.S. National Development Program last year. So he played a little bit in the USHL for those who aren't familiar. The National Under 18 team has a weird schedule where you play. Very weird. You play like 60 games and it's a mixture of like, what is it?

It's exhibition games against college teams, exhibition games against CIS or U sports teams, exhibition games against other teams from other leagues, international teams, and then like 30 games in the USAHL. Like they're a USHL team in that league with a schedule, and then they play like a bunch of like 25 to 30 random games and other teams. And he came to Flames Camp,

which is he was the only 2025 pick at Flames Camp this year. Because he is not, he had no school commitments because he doesn't start at the University of Minnesota until 2026. So he was able to come. I tell you, at the end of those, at least the one I was at, Macy O'Phillips in the rookie game in Calgary, he was just shoving guys around.

I mean, he must have, you know, he basically shoved poor, poor Savoy. Yeah, Matt Savoy. I'm like a slot all the way into the far corner. Like, he's a big kid and he's only going to get bigger and stronger. So, yeah. In the next time we see Phillips in an NHL camp probably won't be until 2027, at the, at the very least,

the end of his freshman year of college. Like he might, you know, he might be a one and done guy in college. You might do multiple years, but you can kind of see how big he is and how much the, the Oilers kids hated him.

Like they were just, he was driving them nuts by the end of the first game. So you can kind of see what they liked about him, but. Oh, big time. Yeah. He's,

he's, yeah, four two younger players this year. And then, uh, we'll talk about, should we talk about the cuts? Well,

we will. We will get into it. The Wranglers, they're going to be fascinating. They're going to be fascinating. Yeah. Phillips for an 18-year-old had a really good camp. I was really impressed.

You know, such an opposite player from the last Phillips, who himself is having a good camp in Anaheim. But Macyo Phillips, yeah, he looked every bit like a legit prospect. You see these guys drafted in the third round, and you don't see much in the way of production, and you wonder how translatable it's going to be. But you could see the ability to make a first pass to transition the puck on top of his shutdown ability,

which is undeniable. And you see a package there that maybe translates into an NHL to caliber defenseman. That looks already a lot better than what we've seen from other guys who they've drafted in the last 10 years who just never really got quite past the junior stage. And of course, Phillips hasn't either. I'll mention one guy because I thought he was a really good junior player,

Keegan Kanzig. Yeah. So Keegan Kanzig played with the Victoria Royals and played with the hitman, big, thick, really smart kid, thought the game really well. you know, super tall so he had the long reach and he could use a stick really, really well, but

the problem that he had was, it was just the speed, like he was in between the dots, he was really good at sort of shoving guys out of the way and stuff, but the basically the in zone stuff, if he had to roam around, just because of his size, it was a little bit challenging for him, just the pace of stuff. And so,

you know, granted, I saw Phillips play like twice. I really, he moves really well. He's, you know, really mobile for a guy of his size. He uses his stick really quickly and really intelligently. I think the thing to keep an eye on him is just as the speed, especially, you know, this year I think in junior it'll be a good chance for him to potentially build up his offensive

game a bit because, you know, I think he doesn't really need to have the speed to excel at the USHL level. But when he gets the NCAA, playing against some big boys in that conference, you're going to need to know how to play against big guys. guys and play against big guys with speed. So, you know, I, I kind of like the, the way they're, they're progressing him, though, because, you know, you come to a development camp, you come to a prospect camp, you sort of get some data points on how you're doing and how you're developing.

And then you go to the USHL, which, you know, it's a good league. It's arguably the fourth major junior. I don't think we can argue about that. Yeah, that's true. It's right out is. So you're playing against good, good players. And then next year, you're going to a supercharged NCAA that is probably the most competitive it'll be ever and you're playing in a good conference and you're playing on a good

team where there's expectations so just the idea that you're you're adding something additional for him to adapt to every year and then we'll see how long he takes to feel like he's ready for pro but you know at the very least he's tall enough for pro he's he's gigantic and he's a very friendly young man he kind of reminds me of journal mcginle and he's his temperament like he's got a big smile in at development camp he was telling us these fun stories about his mom now she surprised him with the surprise party when we got drafted. I'm like, man, that's such a cool story. Yeah. I can't believe this is the guy that everyone thinks is just going to like launch people like 25 feet with a hit. And then I saw him play against Matt Savoy and I'm like, yeah, oh, okay. So there's,

he's, he's got, he's got sides to it. Yeah, yeah. That was always the thing with Jerome was that, you know, he was the nicest guy in the world and then he was just the meanest guy in the ice. Until you pissed him off. Exactly. You specifically, no. The royal you. Not me, not me. No, I was always, I've actually never met Jerome. I would like to do that one day. Good to see some people in the chat, some familiar faces who have not abandoned us over the summer. Thank you all for tuning in as we're going to get into the real meat of the stuff here next up. Corey, I don't think, is very happy that we spent time talking about our vacations.

Any hockey news guys? FFS. Well, sorry, Corey, but it's our show. We can chat, you know, just catch up from the summer. It's fine. we're past it now. So you want to keep tuning it. It's all good.

But everybody else, thank you so much. And feel free to leave a like or a super chat if you want. I think we're still doing the whole youth centers of Calgary type thing. And if not, we'll find a way to get to them anyway. So I'll leave a super chat if you'd like them. We'll read your comments on air. And hey, if you want to ask us some questions too that we can get on air, don't have to do a sub chat to do that.

You can do that. Just send us some questions. I've seen there's already some already at the top of the chat. So we'll get to those in due time. but Pike, we got to get to the news of the day. Of course, the flames. As expected, end up making 13 cuts to their training camp roster after today's sessions.

What were they up at WinSport? And they have reduced their roster down to 38 players. It kind of seemed like today was probably the day after they'd gotten through their third preseason game. Fourth technically, if you count the split squads is two. We do. Okay, well, there you go. The fourth split squad game. They make 13 cuts.

And you sort of alluded earlier to how. the Wranglers are going to be good this year. And these 13 players have been assigned to the American Hockey League. I'll read them in alphabetical order by their last name. Andrew Basha, Parker Bell, Lucas Siona, Marty Furke, Alex Gallant, Carter King, Simon Mack, Etienne Morin, Connor Murphy, Jeremy Porier, Arseni Sargayev, David Siliah, and Carter Wilkie. So a number of forwards, three defensemen in Mack, Moran, and Porier, and a couple of goal in Sargayev and Murphy.

That leaves 38 players in camp, four goaltenders, 13 defensemen, and 21 forwards pike. Yeah, I mean, let's, we'll go through these quickly because we don't need to believe

with the point. Basha, first year pro coming off an injury. He was pretty solid in the preseason. You know, he wasn't remarkable the way he was last year, but I think he's building this game back up. He was playing in the Vancouver game

with Clark Bishop and Dryden Hunt. So I think that might be a hint to his future, sort of building him up with some veteran linemates potentially. But, you know, he was solid, but there's just a lot of bodies in camp. Parker Bell kind of the same way. He's, you know, a big physical guy. He had a good development camp and a good prospect camp. He looks bigger and faster than he did a year ago.

So, but, you know, they have so many bodies in camp that you kind of need to trim it down somehow. Same as Siona. Siona. Lokey was one of my favorite players in the team last year. Low key. Wasn't low key. He's just, the players want,

the things I liked about Macyo Phillips in the rookie camp games is why I think Ciona is an effective player. Teams just hate him. He's just such a pest and he knows how to be a pest. And I think the challenge of him is be, you know, figure out a way to add a little bit more snarl to his game and,

maybe a little bit more offense. But he's trending nicely. This is going to be his third year of his entry level deal. FERC is in an AHL deal, Gallant's AHL deal. King, first year pro. So again, I think similarly to Basha, there's just a numbers game they wanted, I think getting him going with a full wranglers camp is going to be really good for him. Simon Mack, a HL deal for this year.

He might get an NHL deal the way he's training because he was really good in the prospect camp games. He came in on a tryout deal at the end of last year out of Penn State. He captained the Penn State team that Sir Gai was the starting goalie for, and he was really good. So we'll see what happens with Mac, but he'll, the very very, at least be useful to have for the Wranglers. Moran, first year pro. He honestly, I don't think he was particularly great in the rookie camp games. I think he was sort of trying to figure out the pro game.

I think this is his first year pro. He's going to be figuring things out this year because it's a lot different than the queue. Connor Murphy's on an HL deal. Jeremy Porier is his fourth year pro. We'll talk about it. We'll talk about him in a bit more detail in a second, so I'll leave him out. But he's got some work to do. Sargaya, first year pro.

They only have so many nets. So I don't really see much of a point in keeping like 1,600 goalies. If you only have like two groups, you only have four nets total. So I think that was a numbers thing. But I think he was decent. David Sillier and Carter Wilkie, both H.L. So six guys on American League contracts that they weren't going to make the NHL team anyway.

So with the Wrangler starting camp on Monday, it was time for them to head down. And then seven players on NHL deals, Poir, I think, technically was put on, is going to be put on waivers on Saturday. And then once he clears, he'll be assigned. But everyone else is waiver exempt on an NHL deal. And, you know, let's be honest, probably the logical guys you want to send down.

A lot of guys in their first year of pro or guys that trend to be more checkers. And they have so many guys vying for spots on the NHL team or jockeying to be the first or second call up in top nine roles that you probably don't have the room in the in, so to speak, for, you know, Lucas Siona had to get extra preseason reps. Yeah, with Porre, it was always very interesting from the start of camp this year that he was basically in Group C. It was he was sort of getting the Rory Karen's treatment of years past where he just wasn't even really on the radar. And you can kind of understand why with not only the, you know, maybe not taking a step forward

in the AHL, but also just the volume of defensemen who are just clearly a cut above when it comes to being on the bubble, Yan Kuznetsov and Ilya Solov, just take more of the high leverage minutes in the American League. JP has been on the power play. He's been, you know, playing sizable minutes, obviously had the injury two years ago that took away a lot of his development time. But it just, you just wonder what the upside is. You think there's a guy there who can play in the NHL, who can play, you know, depth minutes if necessary. I'm reminded a lot of Nick D. Simone. Remember him? I mean,

played for the Stockton Heat. If someone's ever played for Utah or Arizona, I guarantee you, Michael remember their name. I don't even care that he plays for Utah. I think there's some guys that just the development path isn't linear. And I think,

you know, as Roy Cairns is a great example. Roy Cairns was a 114. Oh, HLer. And then just he was languishing in the ECHL because there was, there wasn't a spot for him. And so I think the challenge for Poyer is,

I would say, this about Porre. I don't think you forget how to play with the puck the way he does because he's so smart and he's so talented. And we saw him in Memorial Cups and in QMJ, HL playoffs and stuff. Like there's there's something there. But I think the challenge is,

and I think the frustrating part is when he had that really nasty, you know, wrist cut, uh, he was a point per game player. I think he was like six or seven points in the first handful of games in the age L out here. And I think going through something like that can, can mess with your confidence. Even,

even if you're, even if you're aware that, yeah, I'm going to, you know, get my swagger back. Saying you want to get your swagger back is tough, you know, in normal situations, not alone what he went through. So, you know, I think there's a lot of people rooting for him because, you know, he's a good kid. He's worked really hard. I think he had took on a tough role last year with the Wranglers because it was him and Aram Grishnikov and the third pair for most of the year.

And, you know, he was getting power play minutes, but he wasn't playing a lot five on five. They were really emphasizing the development of guys like, Chris Natsov and Bristovich last year. And I think this coming year, if you look at the depth charts, you know, you got potentially someone like Miramanov or maybe Jake Bean, we'll talk about that later. But Slov Yov, Kuznetsov, Nick Chechek, Bristev, Grushnikov, Moran, maybe Simon Mack. There's a lot of bodies that are going to need minutes. And a lot of bodies, like say, let's just say Moran and Bristevich, who will probably get the

majority of the power play reps for the Wranglers this year. And it makes me wonder, okay, what is the path to the NHL for Jeremy Porier? Because it seems like it's narrowing very rapidly. Yeah. Despite his best efforts. I mean, I would say even that the path would be a lot clear in a different organization. I think that just there are certain teams that have their own Jeremy Poriets that would probably like to see a different type of player in that circumstance.

You know, there are lots of players. The first one that comes to my mind is like a guy like Yeager Zamula in Philadelphia, another former hitman. And it's just like, you know, every organization has these 23, 24-year-old defensemen who are just on the cusp. I mean, for every guy like Gustav Forsling who finally breaks through and becomes that guy after switching organizations two or three or four times, there's a hundred guys like Jeremy Porrier.

But, well, and we don't even know if Porre is going to be that guy yet, but we have an idea. and I'm very curious to see what happens when he goes on waivers. I mean, he's a guy with a lot of talent. It's not like he had a bad season per se. He was okay. He had 42 points. I'm going to push back on one thing.

Please. No one ever gets claimed this early in waivers. No, it's true. And I think the challenge is, so folks, with the waiver wire, the reason why no one gets claimed this early is if you claim someone,

you usually need to keep them. Like, you're going to claim someone because you think they're better than, in case a defenseman, if you think he'd be better than your seventh defenseman, that's what you claim. But we're not at the point of camp. Like,

case and point, like the flames have not had to make a decision about their two jobs for five defensemen on the NHL roster, all of whom require waivers. Yeah. And so everyone else is in the same boat. No team has had to decide if they're going to waive their Kuznets off or their Sloviav quite yet.

And so, you know, it was very good offensively. the last couple years. He's a very good power play player at the American League level. But, you know, I don't think a lot of guys with zero NHL games and zero NHL call-ups are going to have teams beating down their doors saying, oh, we called dips on him. Yeah, that's why I went back to DeSimona as the example, because he was a guy who was

three years in the Sharks organization, didn't get qualified, had to sign with the Flames, I think, maybe spent another two years with the Flames organization. And he got kind of way, when he was like 27 or 20. Yeah, eventually got some games with the flames in the same year that they had to recall Dennis Gilbert. Remember all that stuff? Denny Joubert. Yeah. And then he goes down on waivers, gets claimed by what New Jersey, ends up in Utah.

I mean, but these are the kinds of guys who, you know, just sort of populate. And by the same token, the flames now of Nick Cheechek, who sort of similar type of trajectory. Another, another shark's guy who didn't get qualified and went down, went to Europe and had a very good year in Adler, Mannheim. Well. And now he's back. And we're going to talk about Justin Kirkland in a bit. Justin Kirkland, three years in the Nashville Predators Organization, goes unqualified, signs with Calgary, ends up leaving Calgary too, goes to Anaheim, goes to Arizona, comes back to Calgary.

So you're trying to, are you trying to say that just because Jeremy Poy didn't make the 25, 26 flames out of camp, all is not lost, and everyone should, you know, have a little bit of faith that his development path will probably continue in some shape or form? Of course. I mean, at the worst, you know, he becomes a good pro who, who stays in the American League and maybe he gets cups of coffee at some point. You know, I go back to guys like Maddie Phillips, who is still in North America playing with the San Diego goals.

There are guys like Jason Megna and, and Andrew Potterolsky, and you were really good, really good American League players who, you know, get those occasional. Every year Andrew Polterolski is like top two or three in the AHS scoring. And then you pull up the,

you open up the thing and look at the ages and you're like, oh, because he's 30. Okay. Exactly. So, yeah, I mean, we'll see. There's still lots of, time. He's not very old in the hockey sense. He's only 23. As a prospect, that is getting up there, but as a player, there's still lots of room. So JP, we wish you all the best. We hope you see

you more with the Wranglers this year because he would give him a boost. He'd give them a bit of insulation. But by the same token, Pike, and we're going to get into sort of the guys who remain now, there are a lot of defensemen who are going to be vying for spots, not just in Calgary with the Flames, but in Calgary with the Wranglers. They've got so many bodies and they've got to choose from so many. And again, the overarching question, there is one question that I want to start off with you as we get into the talk of the flames. You know, there's always 23 men on the roster. The flames aren't in a position where they're hurting for caps face. So they'll carry 23. But are they going to go 138? Are they going to go 14.7? Because with the number of different players

they have on defense, that sort of lends you to believe, well, maybe they'll go with eight defensemen. But then I look at the forwards and I say, well, you kind of got 12 guys. penciled in already up front and you're sort of going back to you know two or three as your extras and if you don't want to lose sam morton and rory carins do you go with 14 up there and you go with seven on defense because to me even though there might be more defensemen who were on the bubble I think the forwards who are on the bubble are more valuable I think you are maybe a little more cut up if you lose rory carins and sam morton versus if you lose ilia salovia zalov or jake bine or denel miramano that's just my two things.

For the sake of this exercise, let's do this. Okay. Goaltenders, the flames will carry two. Here, before we do this, Yasmin, did you get that depth chart? I sent you the depth chart. We got Ryan Pikes. My fancy depth chart.

I put that in our chat. Here we go. This is a Ryan Pike trademark. Every year, he goes into Google Sheets and makes this work. Microsoft Excel, and there is a Jets blogger who I borrow the template from. I forget their name, but I did not come up with this template. I simply turned the blue into red. You simply perfected.

So it was thematically appropriate for use. Yeah. So your goaltender is Justin Wolf and I'm leaving Prasitov right now. Probably I'm not willing to say Cooley's cooked, but he's only, he's only played one preseason game. But I think Prasvatov is in the lead. I will say before we go ahead, Prowsvatov's nickname in Arizona. Do you know what it was? Yeah, because you keep saying.

Ivan the terrible. Hopefully he's better this time around. He had a 920 in the KHL last year. So maybe he's figured some stuff out. He was very good in the K last year. Yeah. But he got to play a lot. That's a nice thing.

Yeah, that's true. Defense, I think there's six guys that have relatively safe spots on the opening roster, if not the opening lineup. Ball, Uyger, Hanley, Anderson, Perek, and Pahal. Yeah, the top two guys on the left side, the top four on the right. Yeah, I would say on that side, Bean and Silobiov and Kuznetsov and Miramanov are all probably fighting for one or two, spots depending on how they want to do things.

We're under the assumption that at some point in the future, Rasmus Anderson will probably be playing for another team. We are not there yet. And so at least by my accounting, they got four right shots. So that means it's probably a lefty or two if they carry six or seven or eight. So I would say I don't know which one or two lefties they would carry. Bean has been decent in camp, but he's also, I think the challenge, The challenging thing for me assessing these guys are the guys who are locks have all been playing at home with NHL adjacent rosters against sort of minor league opposition.

And so, yeah, they look good. The guys who are battling have been playing on the road with other guys who were battling against more NHLE rosters elsewhere. And so I didn't love the Flames defense in general in Abbisford against the Canucks, but it was also day of travel and pairing sort of thrown together, who haven't really practiced together very much. So we'll see. But they have some decisions to make there. My accounting, I got 11 no-doubter forwards, Huberto, Cadre, Coronado, Zari, Pospicil, Farabee, Bacchlin, Coleman, and then Cherangovic. in Lomburg. I would put Klapka as an almost lock because he can play every line. I think he's looked great in camp too. Yeah.

And I think he'd be a guy that need to play his way out of a spot. And he hasn't. He has not. That gives you 12. If you're carrying 13, you need a center for the fourth line. Pospicil has played a bit, but his face off numbers are kind of poor. And I think he's a more, he can be more of a wrecking ball on the, wing and I think that's kind of the way they like him.

But then you have the problem of, okay, is it Kirkland? Is it Morton? Is it Karen's? And if you're not one of those three guys, I don't know if there's a pathway to you starting the season on the roster. Kirkland can play the wing. So can Karen's. Karen's to be blunt for most of the time he's been with the Wranglers has been primarily

a winger. He's more of a center when they need someone to be a center. Like, oh, we need someone to play up the middle. Don't worry. We'll put you with someone who can sort of do a bit. bit of the checking. Like he played a lot with Strong Green. He played a lot with Hunt. So yeah, it's, it's when we say like, oh, it's the same team as last year, kind of, but a lot of the changes, a lot of the value they're looking for is sort of along the fringe is like,

okay, can Prasvatov give you more value than Kooley? And can they give you as good a version of Wolf as they got last year? Okay, you're adding a Zane Perak. That's a really good ad. if he can find a clear role and get some regular power play reps. But, okay, who's filling out the roster there and who's going to be presumptively the next guy up in the event that Anderson is traded? And then who the hell the center is in this team? Yeah. Who's going to kill penalties? Because if you're one of these guys, so like, there's a lot of weird little fringy stories, which maybe not be sexy.

Like, it's not like, oh, here's the big, the big stud defense and they brought in. No, they did that last year. They have the same. Kevin Paul is still here. He's signed for a million years now. Oh, what about what about Coronado? Is he going to make the team? Yeah, he's signed for seven more years.

We're good. What about the goalie? Can Dustin Wolf be the goalie? Yeah, he's the goalie. They signed him for seven years. He's going to be here until 2033. We're good. But the fringy stuff, I think, is going to be kind of fascinating this year.

And I don't know. I'm kind of excited to see what they do because there's a lot of stuff that could happen between now and that. Yeah, I mean, at least for my advantage, point at a lot of things would be made easier. At least it feels that way if the four centers were just cadre, Frost, Zary, and Baglan. But they're not ready to do that yet. And I don't know if Backland is ready to do that yet. And so we're in a spot where Zeri's likely to start in the wing and that's going to create a dialogue about whether it's Justin Kirkland. And for my money,

Kirkland does not look quite as quick as he did last year. I mean, he's coming off a pretty bad injury. And he's a guy who has 30 NHL games under his belt at age 29. I mean, we just sort of got to face the facts. I don't know if this is a player who you're that worried necessarily about getting claimed off waivers as most guys aren't this time of year. As you mentioned it, I think, you know, how do you feel if Sam Morton is your number four center as opposed to Justin Kirkland?

I mean, I don't know if there's a whole bunch of a difference there. And you've got an extra three years sort of a little. look at Morton until he gets to Kirkland's age. I mean, really, we're splitting hairs. That's number four center spot. This Flames team is not going to be defined by that when, you know, their stars are, are, are, think about how many games they lost because of the penalty kill last year. Sure, sure.

If the answer, if my accounting around five, and if you can get more out of Morton or Cairns or Kirkland in that role, then you could have gotten out of Kevin Roney last year and then being a little bit better, like 5% better at that position, it wins you a couple games. All of a sudden, you're on the other side of the cut line. And we're talking about, you know, the Flames probably losing in five games in the first round rather than, oh, boy, they barely missed. And I mean, it's a step that they need to be taking.

But can you get enough out of whoever's in that role that get you there? Well, the other angle, of course, is Rory Cairns. And we've talked a lot about them. I have a piece up on Flames Nation today about how Rory Karens is playing in preseason games for the first time ever. He made his preseason debut with the Saddle Dome. Which is crazy. Hey, this is year six of Rory Karens and the Flames organization. And this is the first time he's ever gotten into a single preseason game.

He made his NHL debut before he made his preseason debut, which is not uncommon for guys coming out of college. But it is very uncommon for guys who have been in the pro ranks for four years. he's looking to be assigned to his fourth different league out of training camp. He's been assigned to the OHL, the ECHL, and the ECHL, and now he's looking to be assigned to the NHL with the flames. And, you know, he got assigned to the AAHL first, and then he went to the ECHL. No, he didn't. He wasn't a direct assignment.

Well, he played his first game of the season in the ECHL that year. But he went to Ranglers. He went to Ranglers camp. It's not like they sort of shipped him in a crate and said, okay, fine, fine, fine. but he he started the season in the ECHL. Yeah. In effect. Yeah.

So we'll just chalk that up to Pike being pedantic. And correct. And correct. But yeah, he's looking to start basically the team or the season with the NHL team, as opposed to those other three teams. And he's not small per se. He's six feet generously, but he is six feet. I can play center and wing.

And for my money, this is a player. You don't want to lose. You don't want to risk losing. Do you want to see what he's got? Because he's shown he can be an American League All-Star, and he has produced well in camp. I don't know. I think you want to give this guy a bit of a leash.

I'll say this. The flames drafted four centers in the 2025 draft, none of which are playing professional hockey North America this year. None of which are playing professional hockey anywhere. Okay, Theo Sox-Alius might push for SHL games this year. but, you know, Regine, Potter, Stuxelius, and Yenmet Beko, all pretty good prospects. They're going to need some time. And so I think the challenge is, you know, if you're the flames, you're not going to,

you're not necessarily going, which four centers are we going to win the Stanley Cup with? Because carp before the horse, I think the big question is, okay, who are the team centers when the building, new building opens and who are the team centers when Regney and Potter on these guys when your 2025 class the the oops all centers draft class when they are ready to push for an hl jobs whose jobs are they taking and who are they playing with um i my guess is cadries on this team when they start pushing because of his contract backland in some kind of a role if he still feels like you know he can play professional hockey i think he's respected enough that he will be at worst a fourth line center if he's still playing pro hockey because i think

He's smart enough that the things he's good at won't completely fall off a cliff, and they're not dependent on foot speed. He's just very smart and very good at hockey. But, okay, if those two guys, who are your bridges, worst case scenario? Who are the guys that worst case scenario, you're going, okay, oh, golly, I hope that Morgan Frost and Morton or Cairns or Kirkland can get you enough good games that the wheels don't fall off by the time Regney and Potter are ready to start push it. because you would love if they steal a job from some of your established guys,

but you need to have established guys here for them to steal jobs from. And the center situation last year was, it was dicey. They rotated three wangers through a center spot. And they were using, you know, the last days of just of Kevin Rooney's NHL career, most likely. Pretty much. And Rooney worked his tail off,

but at some point that, you know, you just run out of tread and that might have been last year for him he was especially in the the middle part of the year some nights were long for the fourth line so again i go back to you need to find a bridge to the kids the the high end kids that you just drafted and believe in but you also for the time being need to figure out a way to get 5% better and i don't know i Cairns offensively, very good. Will he be in a position as a 4C to be able to do that? Because you're going to be buried neck deep and defensive zone starts.

I would argue that Sam Morton's game might be a little bit more stylistically set up for that. Rory Cairns has never really been a bottom six player. When he played in the AHL, the reason why he was assigned to the Rapid City Rush in the first place was, yeah, he would have been a fourth line center or fourth. line winger and he's a skill player was a skill player in the oh shoddy was a skill player in the echl has shown he's a skill player in the hl i don't know for if the fourth line center spot is the ideal spot to have him in but then they have to weigh okay should just lose him away

then i don't think i don't know i don't think you want to i mean that's that to me is the argument for going with 14 i mean i i think uh if you have him as the extra who is called upon what he needs to be. Do you just do you just rotate him? You keep, if you keep 14, you keep him and then just rotate them and maybe Karen's plays a game on the wing if Longberg or someone gets banged up. It's tricky. Like that's, they've made,

the good thing is these guys have made decisions a little bit tougher and it's worth mentioning. Jonathan Huberto has not been a regular participant in camp. As much as he would like to have been, I think as much of the flames would have liked to have him to have been. You know, there are going to be guys who get banged up.

And it's, you know, it's also the first week in camp and, oh, guys are still working over the summer, of course, you know, working to get out.

I'm going to, I'm going to pull the, the Zane Perret card on Huberto. He's such an important player for the team that I don't think you want him. Practicing in anything below 100%. And if he's working through some bumps and bruises or, you know, whatever,

I think first week of camp, miss what you need to miss so you're ready for October 8th. Yeah. Well, but that's that that that's exactly it. If he's, if anybody on this team is at all below 100%, that's where you start to cycle in,

uh, guys who are on the fringes at various points. And so I think, I think that's where you can maybe make the case for going with 14 because and as we, you know, you're waving three defensemen. Well,

but that's the thing. As we shift to the defenseman, you got basically six as we mentioned who, who are essentially locked. And coincidentally, Jake Bean, according to our, our dear friend Pat Steinberg at SportsNet,

Jake Bean did not, Bean and Huberdo weren't skating on Friday at Winsport. It sounds like it was just maintenance for both of them. Bean got banged up in the, I believe that early the third period in Abbotsford. So it makes sense, you know, a little bit sore give him a day. Took a hit from Vilmer Alderickson. But because Bean wasn't playing, Orethan skating, Braden Pahal played on his left. Which he's been actively working at, actively working at. So we saw Pahall play on the left side of the.

in game 82 so that Hunter Brestavich could get into the lineup. And so that's kind of interesting to me. Because the flames have a glut, let's say, of Ritees to the point where one of them probably will be playing elsewhere in the near future. But some of the most exciting defensemen the flames have in their system are still Ritees.

And that's not even including Simon Mack, who is on an HL deal. Like Mews is in college. He's a righty. And then you have, you know, obviously Perek and Brestev, if you are a person with a certain handedness,

it would be beneficial if you can play wherever there's an opening rather than only on one side. But again, let's just say Pahal is able to play on his left side on October 8th in Edmonton. What does that mean for the chances for everybody else? Because I don't know who the seventh guy is going to be. Yeah.

And that's that's that's it's very peculiar to me because they did this last year where they they ended up signing Tyson Barry late in camp because they wanted to give the power play a boost. And then Tyson Barry unfortunately didn't factor into enough games to really give the power play a boost. But they carried a defenseman for the vast majority of last season because they had too many guys. And how do they balance that this year? Yeah. Well, I sent, Yasmin, I sent you a photo just of the groups from camp today because, you know, and obviously some of the guys on the right side of this have been cut.

but if you really look at that left group, if you are not on that left side, I don't really think you're under consideration truly at this point. Like you're just sort of, where the message is you better work your tail off and get into that group. Yeah, but, but like those are the guys under consideration. 16 forwards, nine defensemen, three goalies.

And we've already talked about the goalies a little bit. We'll talk about them a little bit more. But I'm looking at those defensemen, nine of them. And I don't think it's too difficult to cut to a those guys. I really don't. And I, I was a Danil de Miramana booster when they got them. Just has not worked. Uh, I don't. I mean, I'm sure if you trade Rasmus, uh, you might need another righty, but at that point, you might just be calling on Hunter Brestevich. I go back to rolls too. The idea like, okay, if you're adding, if you're adding, okay, who's killing your penalties this

year? Uh, you're going to have an Anderson ball pair probably and then probably Hanley weaker or maybe Paul weaker. So that means you, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, two defensemen who are coming off the, your bump up pair is probably Zane Perrek. The bump up pair is the pair they throw out after a penalty kill or a power play to sort of keep momentum going. So successful penalty kill, you throw Perak out there with, I don't know, Hanley or someone, and you keep them momentum going because you're facing a tired forward group. Okay.

I can kind of see that. But, okay, in the event that, say, again, in the event that Anderson is playing elsewhere, or maybe you need to get Perreka night off or Pahol and out. or whoever, your extra defenseman almost certainly needs to be someone that can kill penalties. Yeah, sure. And Miramanov doesn't. And also, you know, if you're concerned about losing a player of that stature on waivers, I'll remind you the flames have claimed two better ones off of waivers in recent seasons in Hanley and Paul.

Two guys with more defined roles. Yeah. And the other part of it is I'm curious to see if maybe there's a trade that they can maybe work out. I know there were discussions last year about maybe trading Miramanov. of. And, you know, he is a, he has a guy who was played in 93 NHL games, which is not nothing, uh, who shoots right. And he's had flash rebellions. I was on that road trip, uh, in New York when he scored that really nice goal. I think it's in New Jersey, uh, during that weird comeback where I had to rewrite

my entire gamer. Thanks guys. Yeah. Uh, but I think, you know, he's shown those kind of flashes, but I mean, let's be honest, like the, the difference between being good in spurts and being good consistently is the difference between, you know, being one of those guys that's in occasionally. being a guy who isn't. I mean, there's plenty of, there's plenty of guys that have shown flashes of offensive brilliance along the lines of a Matt Coronado and a Flames jersey. But the reason why Matt Coronado is

A, on the team permanently, and B, well compensated for that, is because he was able to do it really consistently, and because he had consistency, he was able to carve out a role. And, you know, I'll say this about Pahal, you know, Braden Bahaul, it was, I think, scratched like maybe three times since he got

claimed off waivers. He's a guy that's, He's played a very clear role. And he's kind of, I think he's one of the harder guys to take out of the lineup because he can kill Penley's and he just, you bury in the defensive zone and he's glassing out and that's sort of what his entire identity is. And do you have someone who can play with him?

Because they had Jake Bean with him for about 25 games at the end of the season. And it got, it got better, but it was kind of stylistically a weird match, Jake Bean as a defensive shutdown specialist. And then they had to work on it. And I think they got pretty decent by the end of it. But my question is just, you know, will it be simple as, okay, can Jan Kuznetsov be a better fit to play with Baha'all on the third pairing, potentially, than Bean is or than Miramanov is?

Yeah. For me, I am at the point where I'm expecting Bean to make it over Kuznetsov, although I would probably make it the other way, but it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. I think Kuznetsov is good, but I think he's sort of on the same level as a guy like Sloviav, who will probably also be sent down both of them need waivers. They're serviceable. They're fine because Natsav could probably be an NHL player. There's just not a spot, I don't think.

You know, and, and again. Again, though, like, okay, devil's advocate, Hanley got it to your deal. Hanley is a very effective complimentary defense. You can throw them with anyone. You're going to be, you can take eight minutes. Paul is in the first year of a two-year deal where he's basically the right-handed Hanley, except maybe a little bit meaner.

So you have some guys that can, you can sort of mix and match and play in secondary roles. Like Hanley is really good because I would argue he's sort of like the defensive Klapka, not nearly in size, but in terms of like, you can play Hanley in any pairing in any situation. You probably don't want to pay on the power play, but you can just throw them out there and it can give you quality. Paul, again, same kind of thing.

My big thing is, okay, If you're thinking about this season and next season, does putting Jake Bean on the team necessarily move the project forward? If the mantra is you're both, you got to have, as they say, the two masters you're serving. You're serving the master this year of,

okay, can you get to 97 points and just get a little bit higher in the standings and play beyond game need two, even if you're going to get completely wrecked in the first round, potentially, getting there teaches your guys something. But also, how do you do that and also help your guys grow so that in two years, they're a little bit better in three years and four years.

I don't necessarily know if putting Jake Bean on the team necessarily does that. And I don't know. But I also don't know if Kuznetsov or Slov or Miramanov is the answer either. No. Correct on the team definitely is. Perak on the team helps you now and helps you in two to three to five years. But do they have anyone else in the defensive queue right? now that it's in that in that wheelhouse that won't be out of place but also helps you i don't

not yet i don't think the only the only saving grace i think is that you know at least if you put miramanov and or being in the american league while the flames do have those prospects who are pushing for minutes and pushing for you know a visibility you're not going to be taking too too much ice away from them if they go to the american league brisdevich is going to get his minutes regardless Moran is going to get his minutes, you know, as he gets eased into the pro style. Beyond that, I mean, we're talking about Nick Cheechek and Simon Mac and, and, and then also a couple of guys in Poria and Sloviov, who are basically finished projects, I would say at this point. Slovio's 25. I mean, we've been talking about him forever.

Pori, you know. They have, they have 16 players on NHL or AHL contracts for next year. And so there's no roster limits in the AHA. There are in the NHL. If you carry, let's say they carry like realistically, they could do eight and eight and then just sort of rotate guys through and it'll probably be fine. I don't know necessarily if you want to carry two extra defensemen in the NHL. And I don't know necessarily you want to be sitting two guys in the AHL. But I mean, that's kind of the gig. I mean, you know, I think you want to create a competitive environment at both levels and have guys fighting for ice time. They're definitely doing that in the Ford

ranks. They have, we'll get into the Fordish in a bit. But I think, that's going to be one of the things to monitor too because you know they're they're in a situation where the 10 college players and five European players aren't even here yet and they're probably going to have some interesting juggling decisions to make throughout the year to make sure people get the rice time and it's only going to get worse because they have a crap ton of picks again this year worse oh it's going to get worse they're going to think I think better but yes no I mean I'm just thinking for for Brett Sutter or the wranglers having to having to figure out how to divvy up ice time because again they they want to be a competitive team which means

they want a guys battling for spots and b they want to be battling for a playoff spot they want to be you know at both levels they want to make the playoffs because they think playing meaningful games late in the years is the best way to move guys forward and how do you square that with especially the hl level yeah but this guy needs to learn pro right uh guys keep sending us your questions uh because we you know we still have no shortage of stuff to talk about we're going a little long, but we're going to make it a good end to the show regardless. Yeah, I mean, it's been, it's been a wild camp and it's going to continue being that way. I mean, I said this last season off the hop and the flames ended up being better than I expected.

I think better than everybody expected. I think they're going to fall apart. I think the regression is going to come. I just, I think, I think they, their record in one goal games last year was, was unsustainable. And sustainably good or unsustainably bad? Unsustainably good. Why?

Well, I mean, they finished with what, a minus 14 goal differential and they won like. They also had a really bad penalty kill and a very forgettable power. And they couldn't score. I mean, that's the thing. I think they were second last or last in five one five shooting percentage. I know. It was horrible. But still, I think their defense is going to get a little bit exposed at points this year.

We'll see. I mean, I think all it takes is two bad weeks for off the, hop for things to really go south i i said this in oers uh orders uh orders nation every day to day uh i think they're i think they barely make the playoffs but i think they bear like when i say barely make it i mean if if they miss the playoffs in 24 25 by the grace of god and tiebreakers the same kind of thing is going to get them in but it's going to be similarly white knuckle i think my perspective is you know as someone who watched this team intensely when kipersoff is here you're goaltending can paper over a lot of things.

And if you know you have a gold tender and then you just need to be adequate in front of him at five on five and then figure out a way to get a little bit more out of your special teams, I mean, that's the recipe. They're never going to be with the team is currently constructed with the guys they have right now. They're probably never going to be in a 1980s order style run and gun team. But they know that. It's not like they need to figure that out. They don't need to reinvent the wheel. They've already built the wheel. The wheel was built last year.

And so this year, the question is simply, can Perek and Coronado and maybe Huberto having a little bit more mojo get you a little bit more on the power play and can playing a better defensive style in the penalty kill get you a little bit more on the penalty kill? Can you keep a few pucks out of your net that went in in weird ways last year? And can you get a few bloops into the net of the power play? Because they didn't miss the playoffs by a large margin. Yeah, it's true. I just don't see that. star forward and I need to see that star forward before I truly believe but we'll see. I mean, do you see a star defenseman?

Do you see a star goalie, but do you see a star anywhere else? I hope there's a star defenseman in Perak and I would, I, I, I, I, I, I like Hunter Bustavich more than more than most people. I feel like this is McKenzie Weger ratio again. Yeah, well, I thought we promised we wouldn't be the program that disparages McKenzie We know. We like McKenzie Weiger. I mean, we sign that pledge together.

Yeah, true. We did. I just, I just, I don't know. I, we'll see, uh, but in any event. I like this question from the talking dog, which isn't really, it's sort of a question. We started the rebuild a couple of years ago. Have we bottomed out or is the worst yet to come?

I think I, no. No. No? To which part? When were they rebuilding? Yeah, I don't think they've truly rebuilt. They trade. They traded. They traded five pending UFAs in season and then two pending UFAs in the summer and then

finished what, 10 points ahead. Yeah. year before they traded away they traded away so many regulars they ended up with the same amount of wins they traded away a bunch of 28 year olds and they traded for a bunch of 24 year olds really that's that's what they did they traded for yagore they traded for farabee they traded for fras they traded for kevin ball they really just and potter and okay sure sure sure sure and manfagrid but they would have made picks either way and hundred brisdivich yeah yeah you know i'm i i i agree i'm i agree with meza i like luke misa i like luke misa but yeah to to answer the question more

oddly, I think the game plan would be, I would say, look at how they handled the Markstrom thing, because I think that's sort of the shape of things where, okay, was Dustin Wolf kept in the HL too long? I think he was kept in the right amount of time because when he was ready, they had a older player that still had value, that they could trade for assets. And so they not, they got, they saved the cap space. They got a full-time spot for Wolf. and they got a pick and they got Kevin Ball.

And then Markstrom had a chance to go play somewhere where he was, you know, be able to lean, they were able to lean on him and not really say, you know, I imagine it's probably awkward for Markstrom, knowing the writing on the wall of the best goalie in North America outside the NHL is just sort of down the hall. You know, that kind of, that probably was awkward on a certain level. But if you look at this year, okay,

you have Prek, maybe Bristevich, and you have someone on expiring contract. with a similar role in Anderson. And then flash forward a year, you got to figure out, do you have someone internally that can do Blake Coleman's role potentially? Okay, maybe.

And then, okay, is Joel Farabee a long-term piece or is Joel Farabee, someone that you have someone internally? So I think the idea is that they stay roughly where they are right now. They probably hope they get a little bit higher than what they are right now, but sort of stay, for lack of better term, on the cusp. And maybe a good performance by someone, gets you over the cusp and gets you playing past game 82. But I think they're hoping that you can cycle kids in without completely falling off a cliff.

And then as the kids develop, you get things moving forward. That said, I know everyone's thinking, but they don't have a good row. They don't have, you know, a kuchok. They don't have a tippity, tip-top star to really drive things. And that's probably a fair assessment. That is arguably the flaw in the hybrid rebuild model that unless you completely tank out, you're really going to have to cross your fingers and, you know, wishing a falling star that you find a Godreau level player later on,

like in the 20s or later on in the rounds because you're, generally speaking, you know, some of the best players the planes have gotten have been their first rounders and generally been their first half of the first rounders. But, and, you know,

they also found Brent Cron. They did. The goalies are weird. Can't forget him. I mean, I just think with the, with the, variance that is always going to be at play when you are a team with the level of talent the

flames have. I don't think it takes a whole lot of derivation from the mean to end up going a little bit higher or a little bit lower. And I think the flames have put themselves in a position where they do need a lot to go right in order to be on that level. And they don't need much to go wrong to fall off of it. That's, that's my, that's my point of view on it. Where I do think there are things that could have gone right for them last year that didn't go right. I think they were a bad week in St. Louis away from making it.

They were. And I think they'll probably be a bad week in St. Louis away from making or not again. But I think, I also think they were a bad October away from just completely falling apart last year. Like, a lot of these teams are defined. by how they start. And I remember points in October count the same as points in April. They're just easier to get because you're playing against teams that are still

figuring themselves. It's true. But then the mindset completely changes where if you, even if you bank up a bunch of points in April or March, there's a different mindset when that is, you know, garbage time and you have been out of it since Christmas versus if you've sort of been on the cusp the whole year and you have that fire that continues to burn. So I think a lot is going to be dictated by the first six weeks. I mean I well again that's that's that's Elliot Friedman always points to the

Thanksgiving yeah exactly because you know if you're if you're in it you can you probably stay in it because that means you figured out your game like quickly I'm not in it it's hard to chase I look at the national predators last year and they just had a horrible start and I think everybody knew by this by remembrance day that they were cooked and it was just it was just let's play out the string and I think everybody kind of lost the fire from there and I don't know. I mean, the flames have never,

the last time I remember the flames being in that position was, I mean, they were kind of in that position in the year they got per rec. They were, everything just went off the rails. Yeah, because they had that horrible October. Yeah.

Like, I remember watching them just get absolutely rocked in that outdoor game. Yes. It was not, it was not close. They did, the jerseys were the best thing about the game. Oh,

they just, the, I hated those jerseys. I, I, I just, they just they were a group that wasn't clicking it's like the chickens coming home to roost they they had a team where you know there's a lot of external noise i there had to have been some

internal noise i think a couple weeks after that that's when they had all the chatter from nikita zadorov and hockey night in canada yeah all that stuff like so like it was it was a rough year i can't think of a a weirder circumstance to be a general manager for the first time or head coach for the first time and you know they they they got behind the eight ball in october and they were chasing and then they never really got, I think the closest they got to a playoff spot, the entire rest of the year was within five points. Yeah, something like that.

Like they were chasing and they could never quite get it and then they threw in the towel. Maybe this will be the Tyn-Lorence year for the Calgary Flames, but we have a long way to go before that. Pike, let's just do some rapid fire to finish things off here. Just some thoughts on how certain players have performed in camp, where they sit.

Sam Hansick, we haven't talked at all about Sam Hansick today. He is in Group A as we head into the home stretch of flames camp hansick where is he at what have you seen i like what i've seen i think the i think it's telling that he's played entirely on the wing you've seen you know the games he's played he hasn't been on on uh up the middle at all uh i think that's a good sign um because to lack a better term you don't want to sam bennettam uh i i thought he was really good last year especially like you could tell he's figuring things out the first half of the year and then the second

half the year's game started to find identity uh i think him adding the size was good. And I think you'll be gradually learning how to use that in game situations. And I think the AHA is a great opportunity to learn. People forget that because he's a late birthday, last year is zero of his entry-level deal. Every bad development he got last year does not counter against his entry-level deal. This is year one. And so he's coming into year one with NHL games under his belt and an understanding of what he

wasn't particularly good at as a pro. And I think those are really invaluable things for him to use. But I don't think he's going to be in the NHL. mix this year. I think the numbers game will work against him. But based on his draft pedigree, based on his size, his attitude, his intangibles, and the fact that he was someone they could trust in any game situation. He killed penalties last year. He took faceoffs. He can do a lot of things. And I just think figuring out what the skills are that are going to be what he utilized on in the NHL. I think that's going to be the thing that he has to figure out this year.

Interesting from CanTrader in the comments saying Hansik reminds me of young Backland when he started. I don't know if I see the comparison. a player, but I do see it in terms of, and I, there's our, I'm already seeing replies to that that are a little bit revisionist to me, because I remember at the time, people, fans in Calgary were fed up with Michael Backland in his first four, five, six seasons after he was drafted. They were done with him. They wanted to trade him to Carolina. They wanted him gone.

And Backland always had that two-way pedigree. I don't know if Hansick necessarily has that two-way pedigree. Backland didn't, though. That's backland was a scorer in junior. both in Sweden and in Northern America. And he basically, you know, Brett Sutter's uncle, Brent,

that's right. He taught back, him and the coaching staff really hammered into him the usefulness of him being a good two-way player. And I think, you know, the thing with Backlin is, Backlin said to me that, you know, the game, the stretches of hockey

where he felt like he was playing his best, it was games where no puck's winning when he was on the ice. You think he went like, he told me, it was like, you're 10 or 12 or 15 games one season, the year he had that big breakthrough,

and got to the Selke consideration that nothing went on the ice against the flames and he's on the ice for like a quarter of the season. That's nuts, especially considering how much he played. But he had to start out playing on the fourth line with Tom Cossopoulos and Tim Jack. He was someone who really, they buried the defensive zone with whoever was available to fill out the roster and said, here's your here's your assignment, dig yourself out. And he digged himself out to the point where we talk, I talk about, you know, Ciano. is the benefit of his his game has an identity Blake Coleman's game has an identity

Backland's had an identity since about 2013, 2014 and he came back for the lockout and he came back with a chip on his shoulder and the knowledge that he could play against top players to be better than that. And that was six years after he was drafted.

Yeah, it takes a while. You mentioned, you mentioned Poria, you mentioned Rory Cairns, have some guys, you know, the development's kind of meandering because it takes a while to sort of for things to click. Backland, it took a while

for Backland to become Backland, but, you know, the thing he does well or also the things he can probably do well even if his feet slow down. Oh, true. 100%. I mean, I think it's not not unreasonable to think in the future.

We might see Hansik have a camp like the one that we're seeing Karen's have, where he just flat out to me looks like an NHL player. To me, I think he absolutely looks like he belongs. He has so much runway. I know, I know especially after Penticton, he wasn't good in Penticton last year.

He was, you know, he got to the point where he was fine, but he just, he wasn't anything right home about and then he just came to main camp and a switch flipped and he was just he figured it out and he it's a shame that he got hurt when he did because i really would have wanted to see him taking on a big role in the n hl team but i don't think that was in the cards because of how many bodies they had but yeah i i i think i'm i think there's a lot there's a lot there's a good environment for him to figure it out this year we're going to have a lot more time as the weeks progressed to talk about more things i mean i think we've we've we've covered a lot uh there is a one topic. I want to talk about two more things, then we'll call it. There is one topic that I quickly want to touch upon that I see the comments are going all crazy over, which is they've been talking about the news about Alexander Barkov, where he looks like he's going to miss. I have to

shred my Selke ballot now. Yeah, he looks like he's going to miss the whole season, potentially, with an ACL injury. I think the official prognostication from the Florida Panthers social media account was seven to nine months, which is a very interesting timeline for sure, makes you wonder exactly what Florida is going to be cooking up. It's felt all summer like they were going to be cooking up something because Matthew Kachuk's coming back and now things are looking even crazier in Florida. No Kachuk until December. That's right. Potentially no Barkov at all. So when is Florida trading for Nazan Khadry, Ryan? And why is the answer no? I, you know, the name that I, the name that I think makes a lot more sense for Florida is of Guinea Malkin. That's a name that I would

totally see in Florida because he's, you know, I don't think he has. the same, I don't think he has the same sentimentality about Pittsburgh that Sidney Crosby does. I think he's enjoyed being in Pittsburgh, but I think he would maybe welcome another shot like Brad Marchand has. I think, I think Malkin makes a ton of sense for Florida if that's something they want to do. But I think Florida has the benefit too. Like they have Ryan Hart who can be a tough minutes guy. I'm blanking on his linemate who's very hard for Hage. For Hagee is a good two-way player. Like they have so many good two-way players in Florida that Bennett kind of like, kind of like how Tampa does too.

Yeah. I think they have the benefit of like, okay, you lose Barkhov. Well, I guess, I guess Sam Reinhart's going to have to take on some of those minutes. But I think, I think they're a deep enough team and I think they have the ability to do that. So like, I was thinking, okay, they don't necessarily need to get another Barkov and A, that doesn't exist. No. But I don't think, I think, I just think they need to find another good center. For years, people have been talking about Anton Lundell as a Barkov light.

for years. And now, I mean, what are, what is he going to get to do? He'll probably be their number one center by default, essentially. I think they like Bennett and those secondary matchups at times. And, you know, if you put Lundell in a line with Reinhardt, things, things look interesting, I think. So I think, I do think there's going to be a lot more in terms of internal movement. They're going to give Sam Mosekevich more time with Kachak out. They're going to give Lundal more time with Barkav out.

They're not going to trade for Nazim Kod. But they really, they legit might trade for, getting any malk and that's one that i would be keeping my eye i just want like until until until what's the old we saw the what's the old meme from breaking bad they just can't keep getting away with this yeah um until someone beats them they're the champs yeah and i think it the the the pathway to them winning a third becomes very bumpy without sasha barkov because he's so damn good uh but i don't know like i think the the the the cap mechanizations are going to be interesting this year because like you can only what with with uh kachuk out you can only uh replace 3.8 million

of kichuk's money and you basically have to decide very quickly if barcoff's toast for the year or not and if you use all his money he can't come back even for the playoffs yeah so i think i think we're going to get a good clue what's going on based on how they spend that money because if they if they make a small move then it leaves that door open but if they burn more than half of his money, that's a big waving flag that he's toast to the year. I'm really curious, like, procedurally, I don't know if like, will the, if guys are declared done for the season, will the teams announce it? Will the league announce it? Like, I have no idea how that works. It'll be the start of something new. It'll be like when all the

teams started doing trade related reasons. It'll all be just something, something different to see. It's the worst thing to hurt is hurting your trade related reasons. It's true. It's true. Yep. And then one last topic. Jack sent me this earlier today. is alive, by the way, for folks in the comments. We have Yasman helping us out tonight. Jack was actually in studio earlier tonight. I don't know if he's still here. He's disappeared into the void.

I think he's in the void now. Somewhere in original Joe's probably down the street. But Jack did send this to me. We already talked about one of the last two years finalists. We should talk about the other one here. This is from our buddies over at Bet 365. An NHL special, Pike. Connor McDavid, team on September 22nd, 2020, 26.

Is it going to be the Oilers or the fields? That's such a mean bad. Minus 160 for the Oilers plus 130 for the field. So the Oilers still the favorites. I know our friends over the Athletic did an informal poll of some of what their writers today. I think four of them said that he would, four of them picked the field. Three of them picked the Oilers as him returning to them. The sentiments from the summer have been widely varied.

in the sense where it seems like if Connor does re-sign with the Oilers, it will be anywhere between two and eight years, which is a real swing. He will sign a contract for a dollar amount for a number of years. It will pay him a certain amount of money. Yeah, it will be a standard player contract. We can tell you that, no matter where he signs. But we don't really know if you'll go.

I bet you he gets a one-way deal. I would say so. Remember Mark Dordano's three-way deal? I don't think he'll get one of those. They don't have those anymore. They don't have those anymore. Yeah, we don't really know. Nobody really knows.

But boy, isn't it something that we've gotten to this point? He's going to resign. You think? Yeah. Yeah. What about Quinn Hughes? What do you think with him? That one, I'm less sure about that.

What? David's brother doesn't play anywhere. So, I mean. It's true. You know. Yeah. Isn't like a, doesn't like, hall concrete or something? I don't know.

Hall's grain. He doesn't play hockey, so I don't really know what he's up to. I remember they interviewed him on sports not a few years ago. He looks pretty similar, but yeah. Was it Gene? I think Prince Pei probably interviewed him. Oh, good. Yeah, it's, I mean, if Connor doesn't think they can win, that's, it'll be, it'll be

something, that's for sure. I mean, he's only got himself to blame for not scoring as much as he could in the, in the cup finals over the last couple seasons in those elimination games. But it's, it's really coming down to a certain, if he hasn't, signed already. What's holding him back? That's just dollars in term, my friend. You think it's just dollars in term, huh? Yeah, I mean, you know, the, uh, he has, the leverage he has is that they're never

going to find someone better than him because he's, you know, the best player in hockey. And so he, he just, he's going to wake up one day and be like, I've seen what I need to see, sign a gazillion ears for a cabillion dollars. They've had years to talk dollars in term. Like, they've, they've, they, they have been talking to him over wine at Moxies back in 2022. And here we are. You go to Moxies for wine? That's where the Oilers stay.

Remember when they took Andre Kuzmenko for wine at Moxies when they wanted to sign them and the Canucks caught him instead? No. I don't remember that. That was the whole thing. How do you remember that? Oh, I just remember. I think I wrote about it for Kudak's army.

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, wouldn't it be something, though, if after the flames lost their stars, the Oilers and the Canucks lose their. there's too. I don't know. I'm not petty. I don't want. Yeah, you're,

you're allowed to be petty. Okay. Am I? I don't know. Okay. Who am I to tell you what you're allowed to be? But yeah, work you,

man. Well, okay, so I take it the you are, you are putting your weight behind the oilers, and I might put my weight behind the field. I won't believe it until it happens, just like I didn't believe the oilers were going to lose the cup final until they did.

I just felt like it was all crashing down and that, it finally came through for Florida. But I don't know. It's it's it's the topic of the summer on top of them. Carrillo Caprizov and Jack Eichel. I mean, nobody's signing extensions right now. But except for Matt Coronado and Dustin Wolfe.

Yeah. I think I think you're going to look back to the Dustin Wolf contract and go, they got him for how much. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Are you sure? The flames re-signed both their Connor and their captain this summer and the

Oithers have one guy who fits both those holes and they haven't gotten them done. That sort of sums up. And they also got their goalie. They also got their goalie. That's right. Take notes, Evanton. Well, I think this has been a good show. Pike, any last words before we head out?

Maybe go to get a couple scoops or something. No, I think going to kind of start to prep them for the season. I got a bunch of travel I got to figure out. Look at Pike. You should go to Whitehorse. You might like it. Air North. No, I got NHL.

games to go to. Air North, they give you, they give you warm cookies. I'm, I got to, we'll talk off air because I'm, I got to bounce some idea from different airline preferences off you. And that's how we'll wrap it up. Not a sponsor. If you're an airline and you'd like to be a preferred sponsor of, of this or any program, you know who to call, call the Wolverine. We'll hook you up. Remember links airline? That's, there's, there's, we can, we can do an entire podcast about airlines that don't exist anymore from Canada. Yeah. And we're going to, coming soon to the work. Yeah, Lynx was high quality. My name is Mike Gould. I'm here with Ryan Pike on this Friday, September 26th. And this has been a production of Platinum Mitsubishi. I'm sure they're thrilled about us talking about airplanes and not cars. Head up to 2720 Barlow Trail. Go check out the new 26 Eclipse crosses in stock. Now it's super all-wheel control. They're like the Outlanders little brother. You've probably heard a lot about the Outlander. The Eclipse Cross is a five-seater with a lot of the same utility. So head on up there to 2720 Barlow. trail northeast and maybe asked to see a certain mic if he's hanging up hanging out around there he

might be and that would be me uh pike thank you so much for joining us uh as as always on uh the back burner show and for everybody in the comments and everybody watching on the different platforms thank you as well and thank you to yasmin and jack uh and of course our friends at bet 365 uh for making this yet another exemplary edition of uh the back burner prospect show here on flames nation