Barn Burner: Boomer & Pinder with Rhett Warrener - David Pagnotta (FULL INTERVIEW)

Episode Date: October 9, 2026

David Pagnotta joins Boomer, Pinder and Rhett on the Insider Hotline for a wide-ranging conversation about some of the biggest stories around the NHL. The guys dive into the ongoing mess surrounding the Detroit Red Wings, including Dylan Larkin's situation and what the future holds for Simon Edvinsson. They also discuss Connor Hellebuyck and whether there's any realistic chance of him returning to the Winnipeg Jets after all the drama surrounding his future. In Florida, the Panthers are dealing with some significant injury concerns, raising questions about how they'll navigate the season. Plus, Pagnotta weighs in on the Calgary Flames and what the future could look like for Morgan Frost and Dylan Strome. From trade rumours and uncertain futures to teams facing some serious decisions, there's plenty to unpack with David Pagnotta on the Insider Hotline. Video Link: https://youtu.be/-BnLthQbuQA#nhl #nhlshorts #nhlplayoffs #nhlpredictions #nhlhockey #nhlpicks #stanleycup #stanleycupfinal Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We go to the guest hotline and welcome to the program. Now, we need some clarification. We go right to the source. Yeah. Because I had seen, it's David, it's Dave Pagnoda. Sure. And then I watched the sheet and Jeff Merrick, peniata. Penaota.

It's like, oh, Jesus, I better brush, I better, I better brush up my, brush up my, my, my, my, my Italian. I better figure some stuff. Simon Nemitz. David, David. Boy. Give us the good. How do, what are we?

Penaota? Pagnota, not, what are we doing here? Close. You have to say it. This is what they do with the rookies in the NHL. You say it once. Don't butcher it because that's how we're going to do it. The, I mean, panota is the proper head of Italian way.

That's weird. I thought he was muted. I don't, I'm not plugged in. Very high tech here, Dave. Sorry. There we go. It's okay. I know.

There's chicken. over the steering wheel. There's all ribs and all can. It's all good. It's all good. No. Yeah, Paniota. Paniota. We can handle that. We can make that work.

Where in the motherland is the family from? Like we all love Italy and the direct, I believe. Say that again? Cosenza down south. Okay. In Calabria, yeah. So you're like on the toe of the boot or the heel or where we're out there? The heel, okay.

Yeah. Do you get back there very often? Uh, every couple years. I was back this summer. summer on the other side on the on the on the on the on the on the on the on the west side i went on the east side but a little beach town in sederno which was lovely um and uh a lot of people from new york from toronto from montreal that kind of get down there so you see so you see some some hockey gear every now and again um couple t-shirts and hats and whatnot so a little

little bit NHL action in southern italy every once in a while and lots of speedos oh yeah the banana hammock. Oh man. And it's it's all it's not even old guys. It's not even like dudes in their 60s, 70s, 80s. It's like people are roaming around in their 30s and 40s with these things. We're going to bring it back Dave. We're bringing it back.

It's like you can forgive the old guys because they're give a shit meters dot it's like I'll wear whatever I want to wear but guys with their 30s like you should know better. You got you got dudes in their like mid to late 30s that have like young kids roaming around and they're speed owing the crap out of out of the

beach and you're like, ah, man, nobody, your kids don't need to be seeing any of this. You've got to have some real confidence. It's a little different over there. That some of them shouldn't. But, you know, some misguided confidence. We're good at that too. Well, thanks for coming on. We appreciate you.

Yeah. Thank you for giving up. Oh, he's going to distract us from. We're going to talk about other things. Uh-oh. sorry you want to put it all perfect season let's other teams

we'll start with the flames we already kind of went there another seven burger last night for the flames the thing of it is and the first three games I guess the Vancouver one they had a one nothing lead they lose four to one but the they were bookended by two really

awful performances against Seattle and the mood those were rough Dave was not great on one hand it's the rebuilt this is good. Don't need wins. Don't need them. But boy, the process and the road from start to finish in those games was real tough.

It felt like last night was obviously the opponent was a lot better in Colorado. Right. But it just felt more palatable in the end. I only scored more than one goal. But it had a bit more of that fight. They were in it. Just, yeah, they were kind of in it, although I don't. I don't really know.

We keep kicking it around. what kind of year this is going to be for for huska behind the bench he's already gone through the zary thing and paul and that they're on waivers and sent down and we saw gridden's ice time it's very curious and i don't know if there is anything that comes to mind but the challenging year ahead for ryan huska and the coaching staff to keep spirits up but discipline when needed and teach but put up with we got to allow mistakes and be good with it we got to keep it loose but also have standards. Yeah.

You don't want to get pumped every night. Certainly. But, yeah, I mean, seeing a little bit of improvement, along with the growing pains, I think is what was anticipated this season. A lot of growing pains, maybe emphasis on pain. Yeah. But, you know, you're a rebuilding team.

They've accepted that. There are more changes that are going to come along as the season progresses along the way. but you want to give some of your younger guys, again, the opportunity to grow and build and gain experience at the NHL level. But, yeah, at the same time, you don't want those Seattle performances on a regular basis. You want to be able to kind of, yeah, be in it and show, again, little improvement here and there from some of your younger guys. And from some of your, even some of the core guys or the young core guys or that are supposed to be core guys anyway.

Sure. you know, going out there. And, you know, the give a you know what meter needs to be relatively high for some of the veteran guys or the older younger guys as the pure younger guys grow. And again, it's going to be a rough season. I think everybody, and correct me if I'm wrong guys, but I would anticipate that everybody in that, all the fan base in the market, understood that this was going to be a rough type of season. Right. Like this is a rebuild type of year.

And these types of things are going to be expected throughout the season. You don't want it four or five games in a row. Yeah, I think there was some kind of looking in the mirror from the fan base. So yes, we want to rebuild, get young. And then it was, we're not going to have 84 of these things. Yeah. And I think even last thing. Wolf's supposed to be better.

He wasn't good. And Cooley would want two of those. Right. And if it's five three against Colorado, yeah. We were saying that. Like it's, you understand you're going to go into most games this year and not have a better team on paper. But you can play well, lose bad to Colorado.

Right. And I don't know that they were great, but they're an opportunistic bunch. They tried, but the talent deficit is massive. Like Colorado's seventh players, best player is probably the best player. That is the gap. Now, Eric Francis was talking between periods because Connor Zeri, it's oddly, we've talked a lot about him this week. and at some point it'll just kind of quiet down, I think. But because he has cleared waivers and no team picked him up

and he's with the Wranglers, it doesn't necessarily mean that, well, he's going to be with the Wranglers, maybe he comes back. Francis had kind of alluded to, there's maybe still some teams out there that if we can send a contract, we can send a salary back, there's maybe a deal to be had. Any idea on how close maybe somebody was on grabbing Zary on waivers or how close an off-season deal was that could suggest that maybe Zeri is out of town sooner than later? Yeah.

Well, on the waiver front, I don't think anybody was close in terms of having a willingness to take on his $3.75 million contract with another year on it, right? So I think there have been teams that have expressed interest in trading for him, as you were mentioning, but you want to flip something back. So instead of taking 3.7, the full cap it, you want to throw something back, whether it's $2 million or $1.7 or something like that, you want to throw a little bit back so that you're not taking the full pop. I think if that opportunity presents itself for Connie and this crew, then I think they're willing to pull the trigger on something like that. It's not like the Calgary Flames need the cab space.

They've got over $15 million in cap space right now. They're not going out there and making all these big moves to improve the club immediately with all these big contracts. So it's not necessarily their concern. it's more of the team that is interested in taking a flyer on this kid. They want to give a little bit of money back so they're not taking the full pop. Those conversations continued earlier on in the week. I'll be honest, I haven't heard much coming into today with respect to progress on that front.

But I do think the flames are open to that possibility. It's just a matter of how much is coming back. It's not going to be full cap hit coming back. But if you're willing to take this player and want to take this player, depending on what comes back dollar-wise, we'll see if we can finagle a trade here. But that's, I wouldn't say it's dead in the water. I just think it's on the back burner for some clubs

as they also kind of evaluate the market to see what type of options may be available to them elsewhere. Yeah. I don't want to see them play well too, right? And a lot of teams are they're going to have a Conner's area. We've got a 25-year-old guy that we've already drafted and put some time and money. You have to believe that you're going to resurrect them to a certain extent.

Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah, and that's why I think a lot of the teams, like you want to take that chance. You understand the risk of the player not achieving those goals, which is why you want to mitigate that risk by moving out some money on somebody that just hasn't worked out for you. So we'll take a reclamation project. You take a reclamation project. We'll take the guy that's making a little bit more money, but you've got to take something back. And that's kind of what they have to figure out.

Interestingly, they have one retention slot left, but there's no way Connie wants to use that on this, given. You think you're probably going to be shopped in Frost and White Cloud and others at the deadline. That's where you can really turn a good deal into a great deal of feed some salaries. That's your interpretation as well, Dave? Yeah, Strom as well. And he's also, he's a pending UFA, I believe. Yeah. So you have him, I think, Cipulacov, you've got Hanley on the back end.

If you're moving out one of these guys and probably the, my guess would be the Strom or Frost front in terms of overall dollars, you're probably going to want to reserve that slot for then. Now, whether that deal presents itself in the not too distant future, foreseeable future, or closer to the deadline, you want to be responsible in how you're utilizing that because there will be more changes coming to this roster. And there is and has been interest in White Cloud since last season, since that Anderson trade, like almost immediately teams inquired

and said, what are your plans with this kid? And he's 275 with another year in his contract. So there's no concern dollar-wise of having to save a slot for him in particular. It's more so I would imagine either Strom or Frost, if they do go in that direction. I do think they may have a conversation with Frost Camp about a contract. I just don't know definitively right now if that's something they'd be willing to explore on the player. So what does the summer look like for him? let's say he gets to you.

Like, we've seen the universe change after Leo Carlson. He is a center. We saw great returns for centers of the deadline last year, including Shen and Wa and Cadry, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But, like, are we talking about, like, a $10 million player? Or is it like, he's a 3C or a 2B, maybe it's eight? Like, it's, he's going to get paid. For a guy that really, like, you said, 20 goals once,

does he have more than 50 points ever? Like, it's time to get paid, even though it's not that impressive. of a statistical collection. What's on his side is that there aren't many free agent centers that are going to hit the market next summer. It's a thin center crop going into next July. So there is an opportunity for him to, I don't know about doubling the salary,

but getting close to it. Probably in that seven to eight range would be my guess, depending on his overall performance this season. If he pots, you know, 50 points or does a little more damage on that front, that number goes up. But, you know, Term will obviously play a factor like it does for everybody. But my guess would be in that, as of now, 7 to 8 range based on it's him and I think Zaka that are probably at the top, at least top three, four in pending UFA centers that are going to be available to hit the market next summer.

So some of these guys, including Zaka, are going, do I want to explore the possibility of staying here? Or am I going to probably cash in a lot more in the open market? And it's more likely in that direction for him and for, and for, and for Morgan. And you wonder what Frost is saying, I could really use a good year here. I could use some goals. I need some numbers. Yeah. Boy, we're. Yeah. Four games in. We're running the best spot to put up some big numbers here this year from the looks of things. There are few guys that I would need to do that. I would imagine this season.

Last year, the Florida Panthers run into a bunch of injuries that fall out of the playoffs picture. And it's okay. We played a lot of hockey playoffs, this whole thing. if we have to take one year off from making runs for us, we'll be okay with it. Now Barkov is out already, Marshand, who's, depth, depth spot, I suppose,

but still, 25 last year. Injuries again are rearing their head for the Florida Panthers. I don't think the, ah, we'll just take a year and we'll come back and we'll be even, think of how healthy it would be next year. That won't fly.

I wonder how much more aggressive Bill Zito might be this year. if regardless, but if they do struggle or find themselves kind of, because we know they don't need to win the division. They get in, they're going to be fine with that. But I wonder for Zito how much more closely he's going to be watching moves and available players. Well, I mean, he's in tough.

They don't have cap space. They don't have a ton of cap space to play with. And, you know, Barkov's out six to eight weeks. You know, Marsha had his imaging done yesterday, either last night or this morning. we'll have some type of update on his status unless I missed it. But I would imagine we'd get something pretty soon here with respect to his timeline. And it's not supposed to be season ending. It might be similar to timeline as Barkov.

So you don't have that much LTIR space to play with. And if you do bring somebody in, you're going to have to make sure that you've got enough space to have these guys back in the mix. And even within their timelines, if you want it to look at season ending, if somebody's even longer, again, it doesn't look like it's season ending for him. So even if it's four months, you've got to wait to that point to reevaluate. I think he's going to, I mean, he keeps tabs on the market, no question. But he's a little bit handcuffed in what he could do unless he's doing a money in, money out situation.

The issue potentially for him is that all the guys that have value in that front also have no movement clauses. Right. And everyone wants Lundell who they don't want to move. I don't know. Exactly. I mean, I don't discount your question. boom, but I don't know why Florida, going into the season. Yeah.

If they're healthy in March. Yeah, that's what matters. That's fair. Oh, yeah. Who are you putting up against them that you're, you know what I mean? Yeah. You might not pick them, but you're like, hmm. Who's, like how they look in the fall doesn't matter, does it?

Yeah. Yeah. And it's a good belt for seven game series. The depth of that team with the, with those guys healthy, yeah, as you said, come March, come April, down the stretch, you look at those three lines that they've got. And they're, I mean, that's a pain in the ass to deal with it. Yeah. Like all three of them.

Like you got the Lusterine and Lundell-Marschaline by itself is a pain. And then you've got the guys up front. Yeah. It's the Bennett. Yeah. Oh, man. Good luck whoever you're facing in round one. Yeah.

Give us the state of the union in Detroit. You know, there's been an ownership change. There's been a front office change, but not the full change. So you got a player in Sweden without a contract. You got a Michigan-born captain that wanted out and now we have uncertainty there. Like, give us the state of the union on the wings. it's a mess. It's, yeah, it's a rough one.

And I'm here in Montreal. They play the HABs tomorrow. There's going to be a lot of questions surrounding this team until these changes start being made. I mean, they thought they had their GM right around Labor Day. And he stuck with the Tigers, and they had no backup plan. Like, they were ready to make that announcement. I think the Tuesday or Wednesday right after Labor Day and didn't happen. So everybody else is going,

okay, well, you can't talk to our guy now. We got a season to deal with. And we need these guys running ship with our management team. So, you know, they stuck with Horkoff. He does have, you know, power as far as I know, to make whatever changes he needs. But, you know, the negotiation hasn't gone well at all with Edmondson. You know, yeah, he prefers a trade. I don't think a formal demand has been made.

But, you know, we had word. I was talking with Jeff Merrick last week about this. on the insider. Like we were in a position now where trade might be best. And that's kind of where they're at. There's a lot of frustration from the player's side on Edwinson's side with respect to how things went of coming to camp and nothing getting done even though they said they would get something done.

And he ends up back in Sweden as a ticked off 23-year-old that's highly coveted across the league. They didn't want to address the trade discussions with teams last week. This week it's shifted. where at least they're starting to listen and being a little bit more aggressive on the trade front with a few teams. Their preference and the message that Horkoff is giving,

at least from the teams I'm talking to, is still that they want to sign this guy and that's their goal and that's where they're focused on. But they're doing a little bit more in terms of the due diligence factor on what a potential package or return could be for a guy like Edmondson if this does get prolonged. Larkin came back. I think it really comes down to him.

if he continues how he did in his first game and continues to perform, it may escalate another team's urgency to try to get this guy. And I think that's the preference. It's the preference from the player side. But I think everybody involved, if he keeps performing, you know, a team will look at this and go, all right, yeah, we understand what we got here. We don't want the competition to start picking up even further.

The biggest issue is the dollars. It's almost a dollar in dollar out scenario for the 10 teams that he's willing to go to at the moment. And so you've got to deal with, what's the acquisition cost for Larkin, and then how do we offset the money? So it's almost two trades and one that you may have to deal with, unless he's willing to further expand the longer this goes. But there are teams like Philly that continue to poke around that have been told, uh-uh, he's not willing to go there.

So whatever the other teams that were added, whether it's a Boston or L.A. That have also poked around Montreal's relayed the same message. If he's willing to come here, we'd love to make it happen. Not yet. So there are some cap restraints and some challenges. a number of challenges that Horkoff has to deal with on the larkin front, even though he's expanded that list.

Reth's shaking his head. Some amazing cities to play in it. Yeah. Is Minnie the natural? Like, that feels hand and glove. They've got a great team, but they're a little light at center ice. I mean,

they've got some good depth centers, but no one that looks like a number one. I love Eric Sineck as a checking line center. Hartman's gritty, but like they don't have a one C. He would be lovely there. Well, I mean, if Detroit was willing to take a futures,

driven package, this would have been done in the summer. But they've been adamant that that's not what they want to do. They want two immediate pieces plus whatever is going to offset the rest of the cost. Future-wise, whether it's a first round pick, another prospect or whatnot. There's probably a few teams where they could have made a trade if it's future is driven. They don't want that. And they're firm on that stance. I don't know how much longer they can be firm on that stance, but that's where they've maintained.

their positioning. And you know, Horcoffs kind of followed in the same messaging that Iserman had with respect to what that price is going to be. And if you're not willing to pay it, then we're not having a conversation. Again, the problem now that we're into the season isn't just the cost.

It's also offsetting the money. So, Red, think of this. Like, he only wants to go to contenders. It's ridiculous. It can't happen. And then all the contenders are the teams that aren't going to give up players off the roster. They want to give futures. Like, I just it's kind of like Hellebuck. I'm like, I don't how this ends. I don't see until Detroit's open to futures, how does this get done?

He's not going to go to a Spartan up and be open to futures because they're not that good. So. And that's that's that's that's a challenge for again, that's a challenge in Detroit's like Detroit. I mean, if they wake up one morning and finally say, okay, the only way we can fix this whole mess is if we do an aggressive immediate re-rebuild and generate some significant assets for Larkin, for Edvenson, for DeBringit, for cop, etc. Falk and so on that are on expiring deals, get some young NHL caliber talent slash top level prospects and high draft picks and then be very aggressive in the free agent market in July. You could go that route. A lot of people believe that's the route they should probably take. It just, they're still not willing to go in that direction.

Is that ownership? Yeah. It's a combo. It's a combo of ownership and just the remaining management staff still. fairly entrenched in Eisenman's overall direction. They haven't really alleviated that that plan, so to speak.

It's so messy because they've been out for so long, and yet they're not, you don't look at their school, I don't dislike some of their players, but you don't look at that squad and go, here's an up and comer. Like you would do with a sand, right? Yeah. You haven't had the luck at the, I think they've drafted decently, but they haven't had good luck at getting a superstar guy. Yeah.

Not since the two guys that they got, the two young kids that they've, in Mo Cider and Lucas Raymond, beyond that, you've got solid talent coming into the system. I mean, Edvinson would be the next guy, but you don't have another caliber that can step in immediately. And, you know, they're the new Buffalo. Like, that's the last thing they want. But that's where they're at with how long they've missed the playoffs and with the direction of this team. And now everybody being, you know, frustrated into wanting out. they're the unfortunately for them and the fan base

they're the new savers and to the your point rat like if you take to bring it to market you're going to get some nice futures if you're open to futures and if you move Larkin and you're open to futures you're going to get a hole and Evanston you love but shit you can get a pile of y' like in that

division with Montreal and Buffalo and the Florida teams and McKenna joining the leaves like that's why I think you have to reload this these standings and their record will ultimately ultimately make the decision for them on how to move forward with this. It's great to say we want, we need players that can step in right now. When you're last in that division.

Yeah. As you get close to November, I'll tell you, it's interesting watching that in the Hellabuck situation because you've got Larkin playing and on one hand, while he's helping his trade stock, but it's also a team that doesn't have a GM, they're happy, well, we'll just keep kicking it down the road because he's playing and just let it do its thing. then in Winnipeg you got Hellebuck who's not there and you wonder well what if they just kind of if we hang around we're maybe not first in the division but we're in a playoff spot we're not going to be pressured into doing a deal that we don't want to do at least Detroit's getting there he played good he scores a goal whereas that's a could be a big piece I wonder how much longer Hellebuck is yeah at home well I just like it's paychecks out of

up quick, Dave. Unless there's an injury. The wife influences a few things too. On that front as well. And there is some word that there is starting to be a little bit of frustration coming out of that side of where they're at in him not being around, not just paycheck-wise, but also, you know, not being game ready, not being around, not being in, you know, when a trade does happen, how much longer is he going to need to, you know, be game ready? We saw Swam and the... Appenzal. It feels like you just, you miss time, you're rusty.

Yeah. That's not going to help the entire season. He missed camp, took him the entire season to get going. Yeah. And he did the following year. Like with Hellebuck, there is, there are starting to be a little bit of, or there are some whispers now that he's contemplating when is the most appropriate time, the longer this goes to get back to Winnipeg.

And I... It's so bad. It's his own doing. It really is. 100%. Yep. I mean, he could have gone in Larkin's direction and said, yeah, I want this, but I'm going to show up. I'm going to, you know, be part of this.

I give Larkin credit for, you know, facing the music in that regard. I want out. It hasn't happened yet. I'm going to come play. I'm going to do what I can for this team until this gets figured out. You know, still not the best and fans are going to boo and whatnot. Hella could have gone in that direction. He didn't because he thought that something would have been done well in advance of camp or during camp.

And clearly it didn't happen. But there's there are some guys in that room that I don't think would welcome them back with open arms, even if he's willing to get back there. Very different than Larkin. People respect your decision to request out, but you didn't abandon your boys if you're dealing Larkin. And Connor Hallibuck said me over my teammates. Yeah. I don't think a lot of people would.

be overly thrilled to see him back in that room. Yeah. Anytime you send out a letter. When you write the letter and you put out the letter in the media, it's very rarely does it go well. And don't sign it to your name. Like now they know it's you. They know it's you.

Yeah. Probably chat GPT. There's one letter you want to send. It's love letters to your significant other. That's, uh, well, so. And where you go. So Montreal on a Friday night. Oh, dear.

Um, mm-hmm. Feel for you. Yeah, it's going to be, I'm just going to stay in the room. Yeah, that's probably best. Stay safe. The room with the brass poles? What do you? I know, just get some wings.

Something like some protein. Yes. It'll be a decent time. Appreciate your time, fellow. Enjoy, enjoy Montreal. We'll do it again soon. Sounds good, boys. Thank you.

There you go.