Barn Burner: Boomer & Pinder with Rhett Warrener - Julian McKenzie (FULL INTERVIEW)

Starting point is 00:00:13 Welcome to another summer barn burner. Yes, we're stretching out. And that means more great long-form chats with great friends from the Calgary area and the sports community. A reminder of this program brought to you by Bet365, whatever your bet. It's never ordinary at Bet365 with those huge range of markets to wage you on. Play responsibly must be 19 or older. Let's welcome to the program. Athletic writer, former short-time Calgarian, Ottawaian, or,

Starting point is 00:00:43 something i don't know what it's called close enough podcaster and uh recently added to his plaque author it is julian mackenzie sir how are you doing very well pender it is a pleasure and an honor to see you again my brother well i i missed you man i don't know i miss a lot of people in this market but definitely miss you uh i'm i'm good pals with james mirtle who uh i don't know if he's going to call your boss or but he was very instrumental in uh making the athletic happen yeah and you know placing writers and markets and all that yeah yeah and i was very excited to see you got the the tap to come to cabrie a few years ago but before that how long have you been a journalist or a writer or a sports writer like walk us through your journey before being an actual beat writer author and podcast

Starting point is 00:01:27 yeah how long do you have i did shit i mean until september uh being in sports journalism is something i wanted to do since i was like six years old and i like just i'd play like sports video games and write stories off the games I played. And when I was in, when I was growing up in Montreal, we have a thing in Quebec called Seijep, which is like in the gap year, right? Yeah, kind of like gap year, two years. That was like the first time I'd ever taken like a journalism class, knowing that's what I fully wanted to do.

Starting point is 00:01:58 And like I interned for a local community paper, the Montreal community contact would serve the black community. And then from then on, like going to undergrad at Concordia doing journalism school, did a year abroad at Syracuse for grad school. came back, wrote for a bunch of different sites, like Habs on the prize. It's funny, like, I wasn't a Habs fan again at that point, but, like, I knew, like, coming up in Montreal,

Starting point is 00:02:20 like, I wanted to come up and read about hockey. So that was just, like, a way in. And that's crazy fan base. Like, if you want, you get your stuff read, right about the Habs. That's it, right? I got lucky with that because when I was at Syracuse, I interned for the H.L team there at the time,

Starting point is 00:02:34 The Crunch. And, like, one of the writers for that website was in town for a playoff series because they were playing against the St. John's ice caps. That was the old Canadians affiliate. And like we just connected off of that. And then when I came back to Montreal, they were like, yeah, man, you should write for us.

Starting point is 00:02:49 So that was like a way in. And then I, I did TV for like almost three years or over three years. I was like a weather guy for like three years. Yeah, you didn't know that. I didn't know you're really. You didn't know that. Oh my God. Oh my God.

Starting point is 00:02:59 Yeah. No, yeah. I was a. Jack, you have to scour YouTube for Julian. I was a weather. I was a shower. He had a low pressure system. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:03:06 I was. So I did like a month that like the CBC after I got out. of grad school and I had interned with CTV Montreal for like two months a couple years earlier and funny enough our good friend of Solum Valje who now works here in T SOT who now works here in Calgary he was also the CBC he moved on to CTV and like got a job on the web desk and I'm like well come on man like I used to intern there like I'm sure there was something there and like I went in the meeting with the the news director and I was like you all do whatever you want me to do man And he's like, what about doing the weather?

Starting point is 00:03:40 He's like, I'll do weather. But like, I wasn't thinking it was going to be serious. And then they put me in front of a green screen and we did a whole screen test. And they're like, all right, you're doing shifts over December, Christmas. And when I made guys on vacation. Yeah. And like, they started giving me shifts and it moved up to like doing like eventual like news reporting every now and again. And they actually gave me sports stuff too.

Starting point is 00:04:01 But yeah, I was doing that and freelancing for so many different places. Yeah. The Montraug is at the Canadian Press. the sporting news. And then in 2020, I got approached by the, the STPN boys about potentially hosting a secret project. So this is the Steve Dangal network for people that are familiar with the acronym. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:04:24 Yeah. And they wouldn't tell me what it was. And the night I was celebrating Salome moving to Calgary. To get the TSA. Yeah. I get the phone call from Adam Wild. And he's like, hey, so we can tell you what it is. it's the Chris Johnston show.

Starting point is 00:04:39 Like, oh, shit. Like, all right. Like, I want to do it. It's going to be awesome. And we thought we were going to start it in like January, 2021. And then there were some hijinks that kind of delayed us from that. But we eventually got off the ground later that year. But even around that time, there was so much other stuff going on.

Starting point is 00:04:54 Like, I got approached by the athletic to in January 2021 to be a translator for articles. Because out in Montreal, like, we used to have Arpin Basu and Nakanganguin Ghade. And we had a French. article. And those guys would write articles, well, particularly about contuan would, uh, in French. And what would happen a lot is a lot of those articles in French, we translate them over to English. So they had me doing that for two months. And then they were like, all right, like we, we need an editor. And they thought of me for it. And that was my way in. And I was primarily editing. And then I, uh, I, I told them I wanted to write. And

Starting point is 00:05:32 I got an opportunity to write a little bit during the playoffs. And everyone thought, all right, like, well, the Canadians and the Leafs play in the first round, leaves are going to stomp them, we'll give you like a couple little articles. You get to be all right. And then they went on that run. And then I got to cover that. And honestly, like, if it wasn't for that run,

Starting point is 00:05:50 my bosses don't think of me as like a viable person to take over a beat. And then the year after, there's talk about Calgary being open. Haley Salvin was here, which is great. But they, I think had her earmarked to do a lot of women's hockey. And there was none of that here in the sense that I think Toronto was going to be a hub. She was doing some desk work on networks on TV. And you can just feel like she's a star.

Starting point is 00:06:14 She's not long for here. Like she's going to get stuck back to the major media center. She's a star. Yeah. And then like the opportunity came late August or September officially. And I was like, you know what? This is probably the right move for me. And then I came here in September 2020 and covered the flames for two years and was still doing CJ show.

Starting point is 00:06:34 And I'm still doing CJ show. Yeah. And then 24, I was, I should say, I guess August, 24, the opportunity came for me to move to Ottawa to cover the Sands. And I took it was just an opportunity for me to be closer to home and do something a little bit different. And yeah, we're in the present day now. And I've just, there's like a cold notes of everything I've done so far. But like it's a really long journey, man. It's fun, though.

Starting point is 00:06:58 I don't have any of the same stuff, but there's a lot of similarities where it's like, I just happen to be here. And then this crazy thing happened. and the next thing, you know. Yeah. Like for me, the big, the crack I got was, I was doing play by play for the Abbotsert Heat, the Flames Farm team, which is like, whatever. I mean, the really hardcore prospect nerds care.

Starting point is 00:07:15 And we had like, Boma, Berci and Brody, the three Bs. They're all like guys like, okay, these can be players, especially Sven, because he was the first rounder. But the lockout happened in 1213. And for half a year, there was no flames. So now you got like Bob Hartley watching practice. And it's like, can we get you on the radio station? regularly to talk about it because there's nothing there's no flames to talk about and so it's all these

Starting point is 00:07:39 weird little coincidences and i don't get the absolute heat job if i don't bump into ryan walter at a coaching conference i was helping a buddy with it but like you you see the similarities in this business you're not just like hey i'm from here i'm going to apply here i work here yeah uh there's only so many media jobs around especially when you're like i want to do sports like all the jobs are full there's no shortage of interest in these there's a lot you got to follow a weird path and end up in places you didn't expect to be like calgary like calgary of all places right like and i got super lucky here with like the people who I already knew with like solemn and the the community of people who cover the flames getting to know them too but like I also have family members here

Starting point is 00:08:12 like I got like an aunt and a couple cousins who live here too and getting to reconnect with them was also really cool I was really really cool. I was really really lucky during the two years I was here man I think like I got to do a lot of cool stories I got to talk to a lot of cool people I got to meet a lot of cool people I look back at that as like a really cool time in my life it was really brief but like it was really yeah what were your expectations of Calgary and like what was way off base from like a Montreal or thinking of Calgary because like you hear the way Albertans talk about Quebec and then I can only imagine the flip in Montreal where it's like this incredibly old historic cultural city like all those rednecks out there like I'm sure there's there's a little bit of truth behind some of these stereotypes but at the same time I feel like there would have been some eye opening moments you're like I didn't know this is gallery. Seriously like I thought like my anticipation was like I'd be going into like a metropolitan hub. surrounded by, I guess, redneck country.

Starting point is 00:09:07 And while I guess there might be some truth to that, I didn't expect to see the diversity in Calgary and how up and coming it is. And all the young people who are moving from different parts of the country to make the city great. I didn't expect the food scene to be as dope. Like there's so many great restaurants here that I've gotten to enjoy during the time I was here. I really, really enjoy Calgary as like a food city. I think obviously in terms of like a hockey standpoint too I knew there was going to be a difference in terms of the fan base right

Starting point is 00:09:38 like in Montreal obviously like they associate the Canadians as like religion totally it's like closer to church than sport exactly like you go to the bell center you go to a game it's as near if you're not religious that's like as near religious of an experience as you could have yeah and in calgary I think the passion is there with fans it's just what I was what I wasn't really familiar with was like maybe some of the scars they had endured for maybe some of the previous teams. They had decades.

Starting point is 00:10:09 Yeah. A lot of bad teams. But like what was super cool was going to the dome and appreciating like the space and appreciating fans when the team was good and when they, they have hope and how loyal they are to their guys and how they really like guys who give a damn here and are like blue collar and and are about the city and want to stick. around and like I I came to appreciate Flames fans for having that passion and and and I think there I think there as passion as any fan base in the league really like I really think with the way

Starting point is 00:10:46 they care about their players the way they care about their teams and maybe some of the guys like I'll see like Flames Nation post a couple guys I'm like yeah I don't know if I would give that much but damn about Chuck Kobusu but like Chuck Cobasoo met so much to this damn city I get it but like it was really cool To see Flames fans, it was cool to be in a completely different space from what I was used to most of my life, just being around Canadians fans. And I know through CJ's show, like, I'm open, I've opened myself up to Leafs fans and exposing myself to that too. But it was cool to be in a different, that was like my first time primarily being in a space where I don't have to think about Canadians fans. I'm thinking about a completely different fan base and getting to know their history.

Starting point is 00:11:27 So you would have arrived coming off like a high watermark of the last. last decade. Yeah. Maybe two decades. So the Flames and Oilers have the second rounder. You know, Johnny wins game seven against the stars in round one. That's the off season you come in and like, oh, like you, I don't know when you knew you were coming, but you probably had an eye on it during the playoffs, I'm guessing.

Starting point is 00:11:48 Yeah. I think that year, that whole year leading up to the playoffs, I was, I remember being really high on the flames. I remember thinking like the stars they had up front with like Lynn home, Johnny, Matthew Kachach. That line was absolutely insane. Didn't like Johnny finish like fourth and like heart trophy voting that year too? Yeah, he hit 115 points.

Starting point is 00:12:08 And all of them got 40 goals, I think. And two of them hit 100 points. It was the best line in the league by a mile. Absolutely. It wasn't just offense. You could play them all situations and you're like, Sutter has fixed the flames. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:12:20 And then you get to town and it's like post-apocalyptic rubble everywhere because Johnny's left. Kachuk straighted out. And like you went from, you know, the peak of. an era, at least in a life cycle of the team, to like, oh boy, like, people still think they're going to be good, but this is a very new team. Absolutely. And like, I don't know if it was like fully post-apocalyptic rubble yet. It wasn't because you're right.

Starting point is 00:12:46 People had them like, I think Frank had them winning the West or something. They were still like, oh, they made changes, but they're still good. Like they made like some crazy changes. I think a lot of people thought that the flames won that Huberdo could check. That was the reaction immediately. It's like you got 115 point guide back. he also got a top pair defenseman that was, I think, like, McKenzie Weekers very underrated.

Starting point is 00:13:05 And the people like, the analyst community are like, this guy's very good. 100%. He's better when he's with him than anyone else. Like, he's a good, good player. And you got a first, which is, oh, it's three years down the road. But who knows where Florida is in three years? That can be a really high pick.

Starting point is 00:13:17 And he got a prospect out of that too. Yeah, they got Cole Schwint. Yeah. But spoiler alert, the pick wasn't good. It was the last pick in the first. Classic Flames. But like, at the time, it was like, a lot of people were looking at that as like a really good trade for the flames but also like i one thing i i looked at was that trade like

Starting point is 00:13:37 thinking of if i was going to get that opportunity to go to calgary and cover the team i was like i want to do a story about that trade right and i at that story i wrote about basically talking to to brad tree living bill zito and all the players involved in that swap like that i still consider one of the best stories i've ever written like that was really cool put you on the map here right away i think so like i i i appreciate everyone involved in that story for giving me the time of day uh i remember talking to bill zito on the phone and then scott oak nearly interrupted by interview by like just like randomly swearing at me for no reason he made up he said yeah of all guys yeah of all people he just came up to me he was like trying to joke around i'm like dog i'm like on the phone you're doing like stop uh

Starting point is 00:14:21 he made it up to me he got me a hockey nine canada towel before i left he was that's fair he made it very he was very nice but like that story was like really cool to to cover and everyone involved in not like at that time like the regular season hadn't started yet so like it wasn't like we could make this big judgment over the trade and even a couple months in like before they even had they had even gone to Florida in November for the first time to play against each other like I still felt like the jury was still out like Hubert O still needed a little bit of time to adjust yeah and Darrell was he was on the training table oh don't know was you taking a dump like you're just like, oh, yeah, that comment was so wild.

Starting point is 00:15:00 And like at the time, you kind of so interesting, man. Yeah. At the time, we kind of all just like shrugged it off. Like, oh, that's Darrell. But in hindsight, you're like, oh, that was a red flag. Yeah. It wasn't going to work under him.

Starting point is 00:15:10 Yeah, it was. The Qberto was not going to be the player that you thought you were getting if Daryl was coaching. Like, just because I know we wrote about it after the fact with the athletic, I think it was just because they started so well. Like, if I think it might have been like their best start in franchise history of the flames. Okay.

Starting point is 00:15:25 And, like, they play really well. And they had this game, I think it gets Pittsburgh, where they won that game. But, like, they had, like, 20, they allowed 20 shots, like, in one of those periods. And, like, Daryl's, like, well, you guys think you guys are so good. But, like, you guys allowed all those shots. Like, what, what's going on? And I'm pretty sure in that room, like, all those guys are probably looking around me, like, really? Like, come on, man, like, we're playing really well.

Starting point is 00:15:48 And, like, yeah, come on. Like, we're, you're going to give us crap. Like, I don't, I mean, I, I mean, I, I. I thought, I don't know, I don't have any issues with Darrow. I don't want to come across as like someone who's like. Someone was wrong that year. And I think he's a whole thing coach. And I think he's a great coach.

Starting point is 00:16:03 Yeah. That was not a good year for Darryl. No. And I think with the way they change stuff around with some of the players at the top who might not have been used to Darrell's style. Yeah. I think there was very clearly some clashes between, you know, some of the guys up top and, and Darrell, that is what it is.

Starting point is 00:16:20 Clearly. You guys who are there. They're not used to the coach. Nazam's brand new. And you can. He was an all-star, but by the end of the year, you're like, Nazan the coach, you're not getting along. No, no.

Starting point is 00:16:31 I don't think it was just. Hubert was not fitting with the coach. No. Weager had a really rough first three months, but then became himself, I thought, sort of closer to Christmas. It was an interesting year. Remember Jacob Peltier, too? Yeah, I was later in the year.

Starting point is 00:16:43 Like, what number is he? Like, they had the family, like, we're trying to go watch his debut. Like, when are you putting them in? I was the Matthew Phillips call-up thing that got weird. A lot of stuff, you're just like, oh, this. this group is there's some issues behind the scenes i was stunned with how people reacted to the peltie thing i took that comment of sutter say what number is he as like that's just darrell being darrell like just what i was used to of him at that point i'm like all right like he's not going to

Starting point is 00:17:14 give the kid not because he didn't give him a fair shake but he's not going to like throw flowers no at him especially with young players it's always been no and and what i was surprised about was how people all around the hockey community reacted and were like, this is not what you should be doing. Like, I think Merrick had said stuff too. Like, there were people around the hockey community. People would talk about hockey for living outside of Calgary. Outside of Calgary. We were like, like, what the hell is this? And what was also surprising too was that I remember like vividly days after, like for days after like Sutter would have these pressers with us. and he would find a way to mention Peltier

Starting point is 00:17:54 and be like, well, that's what I was trying to say about him as the kid. He clearly realized that like he probably shouldn't have said it that way. And I think if he had just said, you know, man, I wish we were able to give him more time because there were so many power plays and it was like a game against Tampa and there were so many like special teams opportunities for both ways. So that cut into a lot of Jacob Peltier's ice time. And that's why he didn't play that much in that debut. And all Darrow had to say was, well, he only played like a couple of minutes.

Starting point is 00:18:23 Like we didn't really get that much out of him because of all the power play and penalty kill that was going on. But, you know, hey, like he's he's in the league, like good for him. We all would have moved on. If you just treated that like a normal situation, we all would have been fine. But like that ended up being like a point contentional. Like Huberto went on radio months after that and was like, yeah, he didn't like that. Like that was a point too. And it was the buildup that he created too because Peltier was called up by Trilliv.

Starting point is 00:18:49 And it's like, you wouldn't start. I remember doing a post game with Rhett. And they were in, I think, St. Louis and Chicago back-to-back nights, middle of like dark, cold dog days of winter. And you're like, this is a veteran team. This is a bad team. Like, this is one of those games where you think you're better than your opponent. You are.

Starting point is 00:19:08 But that was a perfect spot to put a young kid in, get the debut out of the way, bring some energy to line up. And all of a sudden, like, why isn't Peltier getting, I'll look. Like, there's back-to-back, if I recall, there's a bad, like there was all kinds of opportunities to do it. And so now because you don't put Peltje in for this extended amount of time and everyone's waiting for the debut, you've made it an issue. It didn't need to be.

Starting point is 00:19:28 And now when he does play, you ask, he's like, oh, what number, how much ice time? Yeah. And again, I think Daryl's a great coach. That season, there was a lot of things he should have handled differently. He wrote him. You know, the Phillips one's a different discussion a bit because I just don't think Darryl ever thought he was a player. And he turns out to be right at the NHL level, but didn't mean you could have.

Starting point is 00:19:48 at least giving Craig a little more info before he has to make a decision on a contract the next summer. I think with the Matthew Phillips thing, well, I think Daryl ended up being right. I think if the team at least gave him some kind of fairer shake and done their due diligence, thank God for their case, it didn't work out for him in Washington and now he's an HL player. Because could you imagine if he found a way to make it work at the NHL level and you're like, well, geez, like, it's Marty St. Louis, 2.0 or something, right? The thing with Maddie Phillips, too, is like he's a great HL player, a great HL scorer.

Starting point is 00:20:22 It's just he needed to find ways to make himself more of a presence at the NHL level. Like, I'm not saying, like Johnny Godreau is obviously like, like he's a little, he was a little bit taller than Matthew Phelps. But like the thing about him is that he scored goals. He was elusive. He was like sometimes the fastest player on the ice. He did dynamic things on the ice that made him a game changer, a difference maker.

Starting point is 00:20:42 And Mattie Phillips at that time didn't have that. and I definitely think I'm with you like I think Daryl definitely looked at a player like Matthew Phillips and thought like if he's going up against bigger dudes like Alexander Ovechkin's lunch yeah like he definitely thought that and it was also really fascinating to see fans have that viewpoint where it's like man we want to see this kid play this is a local guy he's producing so much in the HL why is he not getting that fair shake that was a really fascinating story to to be around and see again as a new guy who has like no idea shouldn't say no idea but like did not have any real perspective or attachment to some of the younger players and prospects of the rounders or local guys guys letting up lower levels and then also everyone had their this was like chapter three of darrell it felt like there was a darrell the coach that saved the team you know three or four and beyond darrell that made himself the gm and you're like that didn't go so well and then darrell returned so everyone was similar with darrell and had darrell exposure whereas like it's the first time you're in press conferences the guy oh this is uh

Starting point is 00:21:41 this can get prickly i remember contentious sometimes i remember like the first month i was before a game, I think I asked him, who was he starting at debt? And then he looked at me, he was like, yeah, you're due here. So you don't know the rule, but we don't do that over here. I'm not telling. And like, he went about that as nicely as he could have. I figured he probably could have. I thought that whole year, maybe there were points I could have, I might have,

Starting point is 00:22:10 I could have asked better questions sometimes, but also I feel like he probably could have roasted me and he just didn't. I thought we were fine. Can I tell my favorite Daryl Sutter story? Please. This was before Michael Backlin was playing his like 900th career game. This is like late in the season. And we're talking with him in the scrum.

Starting point is 00:22:30 And he's telling us this story about how when he was here with the flames, like obviously like 0-7-08, whatever. And he wore number 60, I think was his first number here. Backland, okay. Backlin, yeah. And he had told us this story about how he wanted to switch his number, but he went to Darrell and he was like, whatever you do, man, like, please don't give me number 11. Like, please don't give me that number.

Starting point is 00:22:51 And sure enough, he gets number 11. Like, that's the number he gets. And like, for whatever reason, like, he tells that story. Daryl does on a game day. So, no, Daryl didn't tell him. Michael did. Oh, thank you. Michael, I'll get to Daryl in a second.

Starting point is 00:23:05 So Michael tells that story. But for whatever reason, we never got like why Daryl wanted to give him that number. and like one of the guys another guy in the room like i just remember going to like so why did darrell give him 11 and he's like yeah he wanted him to look taller he wanted to have the two numbers there here's here's the best part of the story here's the best part of the story so i'm like okay that's kind of weird like you would get that i leave the locker room i stand outside of the locker room and darrell is right there yeah and i'm like well i might as well go to darrell might as well ask and i'm like yo so we heard the story from michael backlin about how

Starting point is 00:23:41 he got number 11 and I heard that like I'm like like why did you give him number 11 like what was it deal Darrell just looks at me and he just starts doing this he starts waving his hands up and down and I'm like why is he why is he waving his hands up and you tried to make a look taller and he's like yep I was just like what I'm so next level yo I think I wrote that in a story about backland so like that's not like breaking news but like definitely the the waving arms up and down I I was just like, are you, what? Because any coach ever thought about numbers. I tell people that story all the time and they look at me like, are you serious?

Starting point is 00:24:21 It sounds like a fake story. It is a real story. Yeah. That happened. That's my favorite dresser story of all time. I thought him as a guy, dude, the arms. I swear on my life. I swear on my life, that happened.

Starting point is 00:24:35 But no, I thought as a, as a coach, as a, I get why he was beloved in the city. Yeah. It's just it didn't work with that group. And there was just so many different, different points that just kind of highlighted the fact that, like, it just didn't work with this group. I agree. And it's funny because the year before, it did.

Starting point is 00:24:53 And it was a new group. It was Nazim was new. Weeger was new. Huberto was new. You started to have these kids coming up from the A that fans were excited to see, but Darrell might not have been. And it wasn't that different of a group, but it was different enough in the key roles.

Starting point is 00:25:08 And you're like, you could tell midseason, it was a, group that, you know, Frank and others had said, I think they're better than Empton. They're going to get revenge this year. We're going to get another Battle of Alberta. They're going to come out of the West. I see this Final Four team. Some team were picking them, some Redder's picking them to win the cup. Because they did add good players. Like, now's a good player.

Starting point is 00:25:24 You're a good player. Huberto was 115 points. High scoring left winger of all time. Just like, what the fuck? The most assistant by left wingers. Yeah. Like he was. And the first, and you're like, geez, like this is quite the reload by your living here. I think the guys immediately. I still think the play style here just doesn't fit. Huberto, but also you realize like

Starting point is 00:25:43 the east-west thing compared to what guys are like now, where like you want guys running up and down, downhill. They turn him into a different player. Like he was functional last year, but he definitely was not 115 point guy, but he was lost for a while there. And so mid-season, you're like, this thing is dangerously

Starting point is 00:25:59 close to like, it's circling around the toilet. You might lose your car keys here. Like, this is danger. And then down the stretch, they had some dog performances against bad teams, like a game in Chicago, the last awful. And Osma had three turnovers on one shift.

Starting point is 00:26:13 And I feel bad for Nazim because he's been a very good flame. But like that night, you can't bleach from your memory. It was so bad because this team with all these expectations still had a chance. And they drop another one to a bad team. And at that point, somewhere along the line, we've got the Trilliving, Daryl sort of friction starting to surface. Darrell got his extension to the beginning of the year. We're led to believe that Trillivin was offered one, but it declined.

Starting point is 00:26:38 And now you can see the balance of power. power shifting where like tree calls up a guy Daryl doesn't play them and it's like oh shit like yeah this is a dysfunctional organization right now I don't know if I was going to go so far as to be dysfunctional but there was definitely some discord

Starting point is 00:26:56 it felt like at least from the outside perspective like there was definitely some kind of discord between Daryl and and tree even the way tree left the organization right like he just kind of says you know why like I'm I'm not out of here. I'm good. Just through the keys and walked.

Starting point is 00:27:12 And just kind of leaves. And you're just kind of like, well, that's very strange. And even the way like it, maybe I'm misremembering, but it felt like the way it was announced. It wasn't, there was just, there were reasons to provide more questions about why Brad Tree Living said, you know what, enough's enough. I'm, I'm getting out of year. I'm hopping out of here. Yeah. It was just like a really straight. It felt like, it felt like in a weird way, if from an outsider's perspective,

Starting point is 00:27:35 it's like, okay, the organization's picking Daryl over Brad Tree Living, which like just got an extension. typically happen with like a coach and a GM but like that's what it felt like I don't think it felt like that's exactly what it was and I think you know the owner had a longstanding relationship with darrell the owner's most successful year ever uh was when darrell took a team that had missed the playoffs eight years in a row and went to the final like darrell and the owner of relationship and I'm sure that you know the GM likes darrell the coach but the coach got an extension for the GM that's that's backwards in this sport it's very backwards and so

Starting point is 00:28:09 True living's gone and Don Maloney comes in and says the it's the Liam uh the the Leslie Nielsen naked gun scene where it's like nothing to see here and it's the battleship with like fireworks going off and like in the background and they're like not all like it's still a good team and like we're going to do our exit interviews and then after all the exit interviews they fired Daryl before his extension kicks in

Starting point is 00:28:33 like yes this was so strange though like because the the HL team was still in the playoffs at that point and we would like I would go to games at the dope and like Daryl Sutter is there. After being fired. He's not even before it was before he got fired. But we're all wondering like, so is he staying? Is he not staying?

Starting point is 00:28:53 It was it felt like it was very up in the air about whether or not he was going to stay. He was being audited. Yeah. Yeah. He had his extension, but they were still literally discussing is he the coach with this group.

Starting point is 00:29:04 Yeah. But I think considering the players at the top and how they felt about him like the writing was on the wall and like you have huberto signed for all these years you have cadry signed for all those years yeah and if they feel a way about darrell sutter like we know the lifespan for coaches in this league they were going to pick the players they were and they saw what happened with them in their first year they probably didn't play up the standard that they would have liked and you can't afford for those signings to not go well yeah so you have to think like all right you have to get somebody to unlock them and if it can't be

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Starting point is 00:33:13 Was it was it? Was it, was it used? It felt like the team tried to not use it. And it felt like fans were like, we've been dying for this for years. Yeah. They've been dying for it. The teams that they were good here were good, but they never consecutively made the playoffs. Oh.

Starting point is 00:33:30 And like, yeah, the bubble year they did, but they needed to win a little play in series against Winnipeg for. and that was in Kachuk sliced Sheifleys. Yeah. You know, but it's just like, even when they won the West, it was like Colorado beats it was an eight seed. They're the one in the division. They lose to the oil.

Starting point is 00:33:46 Like, they couldn't string together a nice run of contention so much as they'd poke their head up and seemed to be proven frauds in the postseason. And I'll say this about that group, even that 22 team that was very, very good, their best players weren't good against Edmonton. Hanifin and Anderson struggled in that series. The two young guys playing together. Tanna was hurt, which was. was huge.

Starting point is 00:34:06 But the top line wasn't that good. Markstrom was also not great. Markstrom was not good at all. They allowed way too many chances, way too many breakaways. They weren't a Darrell-looking team in the postseason that year. Which was super strange because... It was like the role players. It was like Coleman and Backland were their best players in that series.

Starting point is 00:34:22 Which was so strange because... Imagine Panny. The way that Darrell Sutter had his team play for most of that year, that's why so many people believed in the Calgary Flames to get over the hump. Like they had the offense at the top, but they were able to... play well enough defensively with some of their other lines. And that was supposed to be their way through. I thought they were going to win that series against the Edmonton.

Starting point is 00:34:44 I thought I'm that first game. You're like, well, damn, it's completely different. But like, yeah, they're going to win it. And then all of a sudden, the Oilers just like, throttle. They throttle and they rip out the hearts. Like, I'm sure, like, there are players,

Starting point is 00:34:55 there are people, there are flames fans for sure who wake up from nightmares of Connor McDavid scoring that OT winner and celebrating on their ice. Like, that would eat at me for decades. I will say that series. probably helped birth a lot of Florida Panther fans in the city the last two years. Oh, God. Sorry, I don't mean a lot. But that's also very true.

Starting point is 00:35:15 No, and look, rivalry is great. You got to see it at a good time. Like the Evanton, Calgary thing is, it's real. There isn't a, like, I feel like Toronto, Montreal is, but it isn't quite the same. No. It's like different parts of the world in the sense, even though they're neighboring big cities. Like, it's upper Canada, lower Canada, French Canada, English. Even then, though, like.

Starting point is 00:35:33 It's not close enough in my mind. But even if it's not close. enough like Montreal Toronto there's like this dynamic that goes beyond them playing against each other where like Toronto feels like they're they're at the top of the world they look down everybody and like a lot of businesses a lot of cool things were in Montreal at one point they end up going to Toronto and yeah there's like politics that step in the way of that but like people look people Montreal look at Toronto and say like well why do you think you're you're better than us like why is it that you guys get to hang out in English Canada

Starting point is 00:36:05 and you think you're better than us because we speak French and we're bilingual and all that. Why is it whenever I watched CBC growing up when I was like six years old and like I want to watch hockey on Canada I have to watch Toronto versus Ottawa and I have to go to Gezio Canada to watch Montreal versus Web. There's like so many different things that lead into that rivalry that even if they are five, six hours apart on a drive,

Starting point is 00:36:29 they will always have that tie. That being said, Calgary, Edmonton, when I was there, and even a little before then, was the best rivalry in the league at that time. Because of what they experienced in the playoffs, because of the genuine animosity there, because of the star players. The fans traveling. The fans traveling and any opportunity I got to cover a Calgary Edmonton game, I wanted to be there. I wanted to take that in. I wanted to do those drives at Benton and watch Connor McDavid and Leon Drysidal at their arena, which I get is super loud. but like it was a cool experience to be a part of but also see what it was like in the dome and see flames fans go up against the oilers fans like it was it was really fascinating to see that

Starting point is 00:37:10 dynamic of how how much oilers fans travel but how much oilers fans are here in in calgary it's crazy it's insane it was so much more than i thought yeah if you're in edmonton and you end up getting a white color job you've likely moved to caligre yeah like it's there that there is a there are so many emminton transplants here and i'm sure there's some the other way but it's not even close no god i feel like at times there's more kids uh were in oilers jersey at my kid's school than flames and yeah big david's apart but it's like well transplants here my dad's in those right we're from remington but like going to bars during the playoffs and they're packed with oilers fans and you see like at set bars like directed towards or those fans enticing

Starting point is 00:37:50 them to come to your place i'm like this is this is very different yeah like and and i realize too like Like, old habits do die hard with some people. I remember, like, when they were in the final last year, like I had heard a story about some media member being offered the opportunity to go up to Eminson and just cover it. And they were like, I'm not going there. I'm not going to cover the oilers. Screw this.

Starting point is 00:38:10 I know Solom did for TSM, but also I get it too. Like any opportunity to cover the Stanley Cup final in my eyes, as someone who's done it, even in the bubble, like, you take that. That's something that, like, you add to your career. So did you have to do the whole testing thing at that point? I'm trying to remember what, because the one, the first Stanley Cup, Edmonton bubble was like fully sealed. And then the next year, I think there was like 3,000 fans of Montreal for some games.

Starting point is 00:38:33 And then like Tampa would be full. Yeah. It wasn't apples to apples. But we were coming out like, was it, were there COVID protocols to deal with players or not? Or was just like Zoom meetings? I think like, so at that point, we were doing Zoom meetings in 21. We had to, whenever we had to go to games, we were wearing masks and stuff. And they had everyone like apart.

Starting point is 00:38:51 Like I got to go to like a couple games before the final. Like I was at the game where the Canadians, um, beat the Winnipeg Jets, they swept them. And I was at the clinching game. I think Tyler to fully scored the winner in that game, actually. And, like, we're talking to him on Zoom. Everyone's just, like, a couple seats, like, apart from each other. But, yeah, as, like, the playoffs go on, like, slowly, like, more and more fans are in the arena.

Starting point is 00:39:13 But the craziest thing is, like, you leave the arena and all the fans are outside. I don't know if you remember this, but Quebec had a curfew during COVID. So, like, at 8 p.m., we had to be inside. And around the time they got to the final, the curfew got lifted. So like when they made the final, everyone was there. And on top of that, Arturi-Lecan scores the goal that sends them to the final on San Josefantista. Like their national holiday. So everybody in Montreal is outside.

Starting point is 00:39:42 Everybody outside. So everyone just touching up each other. People holding up construction cones in the city. People right around, cops ran around on horses trying to maintain the peace. It was as insane of a moment as you could see. And like it was it was nuts. Yeah. And then you got 3,000 people in a quiet building and then you go to Tampa and it's just like,

Starting point is 00:40:03 it's like COVID. Like COVID. What's that? Never heard of it. It was Florida. I didn't, I didn't travel for it. But like just like watching those games, just be like, these guys have no idea what the hell is. They don't know.

Starting point is 00:40:12 They don't give a death. The second season you're in Calgary. Yeah, yeah. Is the first of Ryan Huska. Yes. And that's when we sort of touched the R word, which is a delicate topic. But it was a year surrounded with a. a lot of drama with seven free agents for Craig Conroy, the new GM to inherit.

Starting point is 00:40:32 Backland, Zedorov, To Foley, Lindholm, I'm going to keep going. I got it. Tenev and Hanifan. Yeah. And Oliver Schillington, which was a sneaky, interesting, weird storyline as well, which in hindsight, hasn't really turned out to be a thing, but was crazy at the time. Yeah. That was a weird year.

Starting point is 00:40:54 they had a really slow start it's huska's first year and then they dress up like guys making music on bottle hicks like for the outdoor game and you're like this season is lost like they're in the last place what is that comparison is like is like have you seen that music video like dexie's midnight runners they're all wearing like overall i'm like the flames come out to that i'm like oh my god you can't win you think they you think they go on the ice yelling come on i lee like what is this i literally is like this is coming ily and i've seen this video there's no way they're winning this game And I think they just, they called up Zarian Pospicil right after or one after another. And then they actually turned it around and went on a bit of a run.

Starting point is 00:41:33 But that was a weird year because it was like, this team needs surgery. And there's all these guys ready to leave. And Zadora was a headache in the room. You did re-up backland. You got Sharon Govich and a pick for To Foley. But there was a lot of loose ends for Kanya at first. year my god. Yeah, that was such a weird time. And I remember like that golf tournament where we're talking to Lynn home and I remember thinking like, yeah, I don't know if this is good at go.

Starting point is 00:42:05 It's not a vote of confidence. I don't not vote confidence at all. With strangely enough, I felt more confident about Hanifin staying because the way that he handled all those avails, he at least expressed being open to the stay in Calgary. Yeah. Which, I mean, in the end, he ends up going to Vegas, but like, I think the way that he handled it was a lot more hopeful and promising. There was less drama. That's it. I think it was like the conversation in the fall was like, can you get to his number to keep him? That's it. And if you don't, you have to trade him. It wasn't like he won't sign here. It was like, it's going to take a lot. And I think he ended up getting essentially the same number with the built in Nevada tax difference from Vegas anyway.

Starting point is 00:42:43 So being on a contending team also helps too. It made sense. And it's funny. He was in the situation in the new year of that season that Rasmus is right now. Yes. Where it's like, it's clear that they're going to part ways. If they were going to match numbers, they would have done it already.

Starting point is 00:42:59 Yes. And he stated one preference. And his state of preference was Tampa Bay, which was like interesting. So that's how in Calvary, we're talking about Isaac Howard years ago. Now in Evanston they just learned who he is. But like that was their number one pros of the time.

Starting point is 00:43:10 So you're like, man, like Tampa's traded the first. If they're trading Tampa, who are you going to get. But he ends up going to Vegas. Lindholm, they get a nice hall for. Tannab goes to Dallas.

Starting point is 00:43:18 it was just like yeah you're rebuilt now yeah it just even but even hearing that they still wanted to be competitive and then not to use the r word and you're thinking okay it's a retool but also like the way the players handled that too like i remember like nazam kodra at the end of that last year being like you know i don't want to be in a position where we're like trying to get a top 10 pick next year like i want to i want to give a damn like there's this i still thought it was like this fascinating balance where you have all these guys who were on your your team who still clearly want to be competitive, but you want to still be better and get these young players opportunities in the lineup.

Starting point is 00:43:56 And he kept, and Craig Conroy kept touting the Dallas model, which was the Dallas Stars had like one really great draft class where you get Jason Robertson to get Murrah Heiskin and Jake Ottinger, and you're hoping that you're able to accumulate all these young players on the fly while you're still being like a competitive and a good team. And I mean, we haven't seen that yet.

Starting point is 00:44:14 The flames are nowhere near the level of contention that Dallas is right now. now. They don't have the same level of players that they're at. They're missing Robertson and Haskinen and they might have an Ottinger. They might have an honor. I like Dustin Wolf. They might have a, I mean, you know what? I'll be hopeful. I think Dustin Wolf has shown that he could be a number one in this league. I think last year was pretty evident of that. And you see where it goes from there, the year after that and the year after that.

Starting point is 00:44:38 But like, you still need some star players. And I mean, I'm sure we were going to get to that some point, but like the flames, they needed that. But for them to go through that last year where they gave Conner's area a chance because he was playing really well in the age. That was one of the great story. Sharon Govich, I think, got 30. Yeah. Possibly. Like, look at this.

Starting point is 00:44:56 Yeah. POS. Everyone hates playing against them. That's a piece. They wanted Matthew Coronado to take that step. And maybe he was a little, maybe not premature, but like he needed more time. He needed more seasoned. You go to the AHA.

Starting point is 00:45:07 And I think it ended up working out for it. But like, the fact that this team was willing to give young players a chance was a complete 180, from what we were experiencing with Errol Sutter because he wasn't necessarily going to give those players that same opportunity. And I think a lot of guys in that room, like, appreciated the fact that,

Starting point is 00:45:25 like, they were giving those young players a chance and they made them faster. They were slow at the beginning of the year. And then Conner's area, like, helped their transition game. Like he passed Bosnissile too, just being a bugger,

Starting point is 00:45:36 just like getting into scraps with guys and just being an energy guy that they needed in that middle six. Like he did really well for them. But also we have to talk about the guys at the top. top end, top end two, where like, Cadre played well. But do you remember, Huberto had that one month, we had like one point? December. That was rock bottom.

Starting point is 00:45:54 That was, it didn't get worse than that. I will always give Huberto credit where the tenure he's had in Calgary has not gone to his expectations at all. But at least when I was here, whenever we wanted to talk to him about things being bad, he didn't duck from us. I will always give him credit for speaking to us, even though stuff was not going great. Like he talked to us near the end of that month when he had not gotten a point. And I remember writing about that.

Starting point is 00:46:24 And like, I mean, he was up front. He was like, yeah, like, I wish things were better and things kind of suck around. I think he got a point, like right after that game. And he ended up playing like one of the best stretches of his time in Calgary. He was picking up points every other night. He still ended up with fewer points than he did in this first year. But I think that December month had a real month had a real.

Starting point is 00:46:41 reason had a reason why but i think that ended up being a turning point for him where he was like you know what like i got to dial into the style that want me to play and just try to take some pressure off of myself like i i think he turned into a good player this he did and i think you're right it was the second half of that season he started to play um and he and he and ryan huska had figured out how it was going to work for him and like he's killing penalties he's using his body he's not doing the neutral zone backhand sauce like he was playing direct straight line less east west but effectively Like he's not a top line 10.5 million dollar winger that's going to get 100 points ever again.

Starting point is 00:47:16 But they've turned him into a good second line winner, which was much better than a month with one point in December two seasons. That was just, I feel for him. Like I, he needs to be better. And he's not the 115 point guy that he was before. But again, I've always given him credit for at least like trying to face the music when the opportunity, uh, was pulled upon him to do so with us. Let's look at the Flames lines. I sent him to Jack. And this is heading into the 25, 26 season, obviously.

Starting point is 00:47:46 Like they've did very little in free agency. They essentially are running back the same crew. The big development last year, Matt Cronado looks like an elite finisher. I would swap him in Zeri in this instance. That's kind of how things finished. You know, Zeri, Backlin Coleman's a very nice checking line. Yeah. The third line is the like question mark box, like what's behind the hidden door.

Starting point is 00:48:07 We don't really know what fraud. is he looks like a checking center at this point but then you're like he's got great handles and skates maybe there's got to be more offense here yeah fair be shot like 2% the last month of the year he can't be that bad again and yigore had this incredible roller coaster year where he gets injured early probably comes back too soon looks completely ineffective and in a horrible year I think you still got to 17 18 goals because you start playing like himself again and then you've got like the shit disturbing trio at the bottom which i don't want to do what i don't want to play against those guys i don't want to do with lomburg i don't want to do a possible i don't want to do a clapka

Starting point is 00:48:39 Do you think Connor's area is a center? Not yet. I think he could be potentially, but like the results were an overwhelming. You got mopped on the dot. And I think when he had a real good chance to do it, he got hurt, the frost comes in. And if there's an injury in the top nine in terms of centers, I think they put him there.

Starting point is 00:48:59 But they have to make a decision on Zeri this summer. And look, when this show airs, because we're pre-recording, pull back the curtain, it's Stampede Week, but it's not. you know i think the most likely outcome here is a short-term bridge at lower money rather than the long-term commitment they gave coronado because they're asking what you're asking right like could he be a center yeah is he best suited to play center i don't know about that and like if he's if you slide him on to one of the final four teams that played in the playoffs as he's center oh no that's my whole thing right like in the last year i was here i didn't get that sense that ryan huska

Starting point is 00:49:34 was married to him being a center. I also just thought with the way that he got deployed, he got a bit of time at center at the end of that last year I was here. But like I see Conor Zara is a really good winger. I think just with the skill and that skill set of his game, like I think if you just put him on a wing with a good line, like you can still get some good points out of him. I still think he can help out on your transition game

Starting point is 00:49:55 with how he's able to carry the puck. It's just my whole thing with centers is like, I like a young prospect who I look at them and I look at the way they play. I don't have to guess if they're, a center right for me if it's like oh if you're asking he's probably not a sense that's what i that's like a kind of general rule of though and i think for the flames like if you have to press him into center duties that's fine that's okay to have that depth but like i think his future is on the wing i think whether you put him on that top line with the hubertoe and cadre or you put him with backlin

Starting point is 00:50:24 colman i don't think you hurt yourself putting him in any of those like top nine spots agreed i'm on the exact same page um and the face off point is a good point too like he wasn't that great young you're going to get better but like if you're a center it's like are you surviving center or are you like are they're like oh yeah watch him do this against the top line center and like no um and look he might turn out to be that and it would be a nice development if he got some reps of center and you're like shit he is a center and now you can open your mind up to like okay like maybe frosts the next backland and zeri is the next cadre and then now we just got maybe cole rest of you comes in as a center or we still need to draft the top five in the draft number one C.

Starting point is 00:51:05 But there certainly isn't clarity, which is why I think a bridge is coming personally. I think it's probably the right move on that part. But yeah, I still think he's a really good get for this team. It's just I still have questions about where he thinks. And that's okay. You need to figure it out. It's not 203 centers. Come on.

Starting point is 00:51:23 You need wairs. You need depth up and down the middle to get you through the playoffs. So build that up. The D-Corps, very similar. We don't need to go too deep on it, but they bring back Joel Hanley. It sounds like they took some bigger cuts on other left-shot D, but there will be a Zane Perrek in there somewhere. I don't know how often he's going to play

Starting point is 00:51:44 and what they have to do left versus right. It's incredible that this group was one of the toughest to score on in the NHL. This is not a big-name defense. Rasmus played on a broken leg for over a month. Weager eats a lot of minutes, but Kevin Ball's emerged as a nice defensive defenseman Joel Hanley. You surprised me. Went from like press box to top four minutes.

Starting point is 00:52:05 It was wild. I was surprised about how effective Kevin Ball was. I remember when the marks from trade happened, I was like, really? Like this is the guy you really want. Like there was an opportunity maybe for you to get like an offensive prospect. I was wrong. I was always one of those guys who was like, yeah, maybe you get Alexander Holtz and you make that trade worthwhile. I have no problem saying I was wrong.

Starting point is 00:52:24 I think the fact that they have Kevin Ball who has some size and your seeing more and more of those teams who want bigger bodies on their defense. Kevin Ball makes a lot of sense for them. And the fact that he's been able to make it work with Rasmus Anderson, that's a top four guy for this team. Totally. And they paid him as such. He's been extended.

Starting point is 00:52:40 Absolutely. That's, now, would you love to have, you know, a big name top pair left shot above him? Yeah, but he's a top four left shot defensive defenseman.

Starting point is 00:52:49 Bowen Byer. I don't know if he is that, but if he is that, sure. Bowen's a weird one for me. You would have seen him a lot this year covering all. a little bit like that's a really really tools a kid who was always a super high end prospect but the results aren't overwhelming that's true i had a great 22 playoffs of colorado but

Starting point is 00:53:06 you watch buffalo you're like he's talented but is he a top pair guy but also how much of that has to do with the team around him it's and also defensemen take years to get to a point where they reach their peak and and you get to kind of full set you don't see guys start putting up huge numbers that never did but true i'd understand him being a better defenseman of three years and now, I get that. 100% for sure. Yeah. And like I get it, things could change with, with the nature of this recording.

Starting point is 00:53:33 But like, I mean, if the flames don't end up getting a fire, I mean, I'll, I think they'll be okay with the way their defense will look. I still think, though, with the bodies they have, like, we'll see what happens with Rasmus Anderson, but I'm surprised with how ball's been effective for them. Zane Perrick, I'm looking forward to seeing him. Dynamic talent. That's something that you don't say often about the flames organization since the Exodus. The skill, the shot, the talent, the confidence.

Starting point is 00:54:01 For me with him, it was the confidence that he exuded as a young player, a top 10 player who believes so much in himself, who knows he has to get better in the defensive area. But like he has so much in his offensive game, you plug him into that lineup, you give him that opportunity. He'll give you something. And if he has to take his time and develop, like, again, you have time. Like, give him every opportunity for him to develop.

Starting point is 00:54:24 But like, that's a guy who should be playing in the NHL. That's a guy. he's not going back to the O and they haven't fixed that rule yet with the HL at 19. Sounds like the new CBA will have amendment. Yeah. But this year it's not an option for them. Yeah. So he's either going to be with the NHL club or in the O.

Starting point is 00:54:39 And maybe there's a world juniors in there if neither seem to be the right fit. But lots options for him to this year. Yeah. You mentioned Rasmus. We talk about him. This is going to come to a head not unlike, you know, the five free agents we talked about earlier. It was rumored that Ottawa was very interested in Rasmus Anderson.

Starting point is 00:55:02 I understand why. It's a good deep blue line in Ottawa. There's some really good young players that just graduated. They had the Matt and Palo, who is this guy that went to four nations? Because Finland was so dinged up and you're like, oh, it's actually certainly good. That's about that. But another, to push everyone down a slot on the right side would look good on the Ottawa blue line. Here's the thing, man.

Starting point is 00:55:21 I think Rasmus Anderson, if he is healthy, he can contribute to a team. plug him on a contending team as your second pair right shot defenseman with the mobility that he has offensively. I know his defensive metrics have not looked great in recent years, especially not last year, but I also wonder how much of that has to do with his health. You mentioned it. He played on a broken leg. The year before his foot, what his feet was busted.

Starting point is 00:55:45 The year before that, he got hit by a car. In Detroit, yeah. In Detroit. And like, his back hurt him for a good chunk of that year. This is a guy, at least over the last three years. And I'm sure in 22 it was the same thing too. This is a guy who was not played at 100% over the last how many years. And if he gets back, at least close to that, and you put him in a situation where you don't need him to be your top pairing guy, you shelter a little bit of his minutes.

Starting point is 00:56:10 You put him with an effective left shot defenseman, maybe with a little bit of size. You can get some success out of that. I wrote about at least linking Anderson to the sense because I think it would have made sense to put him on that. right side because right now the sense i mean with art of zoo playing with james alex anderson uh nick jensen who's coming off of rip of of of hip surgery like the team seems cautious cautiously optimistic that he'll be back for training camp but like it's your hip like we don't know what that could be like you'd like to have an insurance policy absolutely and like is nicholas montal pollow going to be your insurance policy jordan spence who they

Starting point is 00:56:46 got from l a where they didn't have to shell out any prospects or players like they just traded picks to get him that's a guy who wants a bigger opportunity community and I like at first I was surprised that how many people were thinking oh this is a guy who could play maybe at the top of Jake's Anderson but in talking to a couple people around the team like that's not as far fetched as I might have thought it was so I'm very curious to see what his role is all that to say while I think Steve Stales is a guy who likes to kind of similar to rat tree living way likes to kind of listen in on everything I would be a little surprised if they found themselves in the Rasmus sweepstakes i haven't confirmed if Ottawa is on uh his no trade i know it's got six teams and it would make sense i think it would make sense if you just play the typical six it would be like okay probably win a big buffalo yeah and then it's like smaller canadian markets that are noisy for some guys get on there um yeah it's it's not new york city it's not chicago it's not it's not a low tax area um no no but whether's not a selling feature you don't

Starting point is 00:57:55 get to have a pool in your backyard in the winter. But like, I mean, it seems good. Yeah, teams good. And like, Rass has a family. Like,

Starting point is 00:58:01 he could go off to find a house in Stittsville and like live next to Kaal Boccascus if you wants to and like hang out. Just croaks fit. I don't know. Hang with Kyle. Hanging up with Kyle Pachasmus. I don't get that sense about Rasmus, but yeah.

Starting point is 00:58:14 No, but I, I think if an opportunity presented itself to add Rastis, like I think it made a lot of sense at the time. I wonder now. I mean, Steve Stales seems like he's pretty. content with how his team is but also like he likes to keep us on our toes in in ottawa with

Starting point is 00:58:30 some of the moves that he's made like when he got doing cousins that was something that kind of materialized it was a player he coveted but that was a deal that like materialized like within the last like day or two of like the trade debt like was it was fairly were you surprised by the return so people forget it's cousins comes in norris goes the other way and there's a second you're like oh ottawa's got to be giving that to what buffalo's giving it yeah buffalo the saber's going to saber. Yeah. It was,

Starting point is 00:58:57 what's funny about that too is, uh, I had written something for the athletic where we had these like trade proposals from fans and someone suggested a cousins for Norris trade. Yeah. And I was like that sounds like that makes sense. It just depends on the upside for cousins. And then lo and behold, that ends up being like the base.

Starting point is 00:59:14 That ends up being the deal with a couple pieces outside of it. But yeah, I was surprised about the second round pick. And I guess from 26 from Buffalo, but we don't know where the hell of Buffalo's going. Buffalo might still be. bad that could still be a late first and considering the fact the autoist senators will not as of now have their first round pick because of what happened they give it at the edgedy daddenoff thing that very much could be a lay first right could be a high first yes right yeah exactly 14 years of picking

Starting point is 00:59:41 in the top 16 yeah i i think that trade it definitely was a shock to their system because Kachuk Norris, Pinto, Stutzla, Sanderson, all these guys grew up together. That's the core. That's the core. And then like, we're all at the practice rink moments before everyone's supposed to step on the ice and a few guys practice among themselves. They all rush out and we're all like, what the hell is going on? And then that's when we learn Josh Norris is getting moved and like Brady Kachuk is on TV's crying about it. And like that was a,

Starting point is 01:00:17 like, that was his boy. That was a guy. That was a guy like he played with the U.S. National, the U.S. NTP, I probably said the acronym. The development team program. Yeah, the development team program. And like, that's a guy he talks to about life, like beyond hockey. Like, that's his boy. And he gets to go play in Buffalo now.

Starting point is 01:00:33 Like, that was a bit of a shock for everybody. Because, like, if this team wants to take the next step, they have to find a way to get better players that can, you know, take him to that next level. And Josh Norris is a guy who was able to score 30 goals in this league, but he's also had three shoulder injuries. and surgeries like on the same shoulder. Like I got the sense from the team that like

Starting point is 01:00:53 if there was a way to kind of upgrade at that position, they were going to take it and lo and behold, they'd get that Dylan Cousins who still, I put out a tweet a couple days ago about how, a couple weeks ago I should say, about how fans were like already putting him in trade discussions and all that, like trade, like like long term. He signed long term, one and two, like he's your two C.

Starting point is 01:01:12 He has chemistry with Rick Batherson, unless you're getting someone like really good. Like a lot of fans are like, man, like what if we get mason mcabnish i'm like are you are you flipping cousins are you flipping dylan to do that like that you really want to do that like again we brought it up early like you build up your centers you win up and you win in the playoffs down the middle right like i still think there's a lot to tap into it dylan cousins who scored he looked really good when he got there he did and i think he kind of slowed down a little bit in the playoffs but like i think if he ups his defensive game a little

Starting point is 01:01:42 bit you don't have to think about him too much as your second center like you have your think about this center death. Tim Stutzler, Dylan Cous, Shane Pinto, who is your 3C but can pot 20 goals. That's a really good top three. They're all getting better. Yeah. No one is exiting their prime. These are guys you expect increasing returns, not

Starting point is 01:02:03 decreasing returns from like, you know, Nazocotry, very good player, Michael Backland, very good player. They're both on the wrong side of 35. Yes. As of October. Like you're not expecting more. It's not like, oh, he's 37. this will be the career no they've had their career years go on i i think if you're ottawa you hang on to that center depth as long as you can

Starting point is 01:02:23 and then if free agency maybe next year you try to see if you get that scoring winger that puts you over the top or you make some kind of trade where i would try to preserve that center depth as best as i can't i know people are like man like you could put ridley gregg in that center maybe you move one of those centers up there i'm like i like having that luxury if i'm running a team i like having that luxury where i have guys in and out of the lineup closure or ridley gregg who can

Starting point is 01:02:46 come in and play center if I need. And then, like, I have my set guys. Because at the end of the day, if I'm winning in the playoffs, I need my centers to be. And you're going to need more than three. Yeah. You need more than three. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:02:56 If you can have the Conner's area luxury of leaving a guy on the wing, but if you need a center and a pinch you got one, like that's what championship teams look like. Thousand percent. They always have more than four centers. Yeah. You can find a scoring. I mean, look, they don't grow on trees.

Starting point is 01:03:08 And that's still something that I think for this sends team going into the new year, like scoring for me is a, is a big question. Scoring, like, do you talk about the flames, not being able to score that much? Like,

Starting point is 01:03:21 especially, I think at five on five, what the flames might have been, like the worst team. They were until, like, the last two, three weeks.

Starting point is 01:03:27 They were, I think they had a six game heater jack to finish the year and, like, lose a tie break for the playoffs. It was crazy. Well, like,

Starting point is 01:03:31 the sends and the flames at five on five were right, were one, like right near each other in that point. Probably 28, 20, 20, something like that.

Starting point is 01:03:38 Yeah, they were, they need to surprise that. Yeah, which, like, A lot of it, like, a lot of people think, like, oh, like, the way they play defense, maybe that traded away some of that offensive. Maybe there's some truth to that. But to get to a point where like, man, like Tim Slotzlitt needs to shoot the puck more. I mean, obviously from the Four Nations had to deal with his injury stuff.

Starting point is 01:03:56 Like, I think that plays a role in that too. But like, yeah, I was surprised with the talent they had. They weren't scoring as much. Hey, guys, it's Pinder. All throughout the year, Village Honda brings you the Pinder report for the latest in what's happening in the sports world and maybe the odd crocodile and snake. But today we are at your dealership for life in the Northwest Auto Mall. Let's see what's happening at Village Honda. A reminder, if you're selling your vehicle, Village Honda, your dealership for life, wants to pay you. 24 hours, cash in your hand.

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Starting point is 01:06:50 Get a person next to you can sleep better. It's a win for everyone. Check in with Dr.J at Outdoor.dental for all your dentistry and snoring cure needs. And we're back with more Barnburner. How was watching the ownership change? Because Eugene Melnick passes. The daughters hold it, but it's clear they're going to sell it.

Starting point is 01:07:09 you know, they still hold a small piece, but it was like, okay, the Sends are going to find a new owner. And then Michael Andalar comes in and it's like, he's not a don't see him, don't hear him. He's on TV. He's talking. He's saying things that maybe the commissioner doesn't love, especially regarding that first round pick that they've docked for the no trade list, mishap before he bought the team. What's he like? And when you're in that market, how do people talk about those two regimes, the Melnick to the Andlar?

Starting point is 01:07:36 Yeah. I think there are people who recognize what Eugene Melnick. meant to the team with them being a thing. You probably lost a lot of money along the way before he made a lot of money. For sure, but I think people realize at the end of that, that just the drama that followed the team, it was just too much to bear, especially in those years where they weren't making the playoffs.

Starting point is 01:07:56 And then you get Michael Anlower, who, I think of him as this guy who is so much more, it's hard for me not to think of the Calgary times here, because Murray Edwards is a guy I saw, like, whatever I'd see him, like, walking around the dome, it's like Bigfoot. I probably saw him, like, a total, like, two times, like, while I was here in Calgary. Mike Bion Lauer is a guy who, like, sometimes at practices, like, you'll see him there. And, like, he'll walk around, he'll say hi to different people in the media. He's the most accessible owner I've ever been around.

Starting point is 01:08:34 Yeah. And he does not like being called a billionaire, even though he is. is a billionaire. And I get this perception from him where even if he's in the situation where he knows he's going to be among the have-nots as this salary cap grows where some of the bigger higher spending teams are going to spend a lot of money, they're going to find ways to bring free agents over and it's going to be a bit of a tougher sell. I get the sense that he does care about that team. And I get that sense that like the employees in that organization, they like him. They've vibe with him. The one thing I'm curious about with Michael and Lauer is what is the stuff he says like, like the way he talks about wanting that first round

Starting point is 01:09:19 pickback, the way he went at not fans, but the way he went at media, not actually not even media, the way that he was upset about the Brady could Chuck trade rumors and accusing the Rangers are soft, soft tampering. Yeah. Like, as a media person, I love the fact that Michael Ann Lauer

Starting point is 01:09:34 make himself accessible and we'll say whatever and we'll drum up ahead headline and I generally appreciate that. And I get the sense from him that he wants to make himself that for, for media and also for fans to know him and not just be the silent guy. Yeah. I'm just wondering like, you're on the tight rope of like talking.

Starting point is 01:09:54 Is it going to get to a where you fall off and then you like you peel back a little bit or someone tells you to peel back. So you said you overstepped a little bit and now Gary gives you a spank. Yeah. Don't hear from Adela for a lot. That's it. Right. Like, yeah.

Starting point is 01:10:05 Like I don't want to talk about this first round pick stuff. I'm done talking about that. talking about all that like I want to behave he does that twist like yeah guys like I want to want to behavior I want that like it's clear they want that for a front pick back obviously silly like I think even the devil's got the coval chuck they did back they got their first round pick back they got it it was like the 30 the last pick of the draft and I think if the NHL wants to bring that pick back I see a situation where it would be like that you plunk it at 32 and the send still get a first round pick and everyone gets to wipe their hands

Starting point is 01:10:38 clean of all of this. We all move on. But like, I mean, when we asked Gary Bettman about that a couple months ago, he said it was not a punishment that he took lightly. So like, and the thing with the, the New Jersey devil's punishment too, they got docked a whole bunch of other stuff

Starting point is 01:10:54 and that first round pick was well into the future. Right. So whereas for the Sends, they had to give up a first round pick within like three years and they decided, all right, that 26 is leaving. So if the NHL says, all right, well, we're giving you a pick back, like maybe that's a that's a different situation i think like because that that point the one thing

Starting point is 01:11:13 you were taking away from them you found you found a way to give back okay so i think there there is some of that but anne laura as a guy like he the players like him called jeru called him like he said he was like in ed snider what he was like in philadelphia and how much he cares he's a hands-on owner right he's a very handheld he's competitive and wants to win which everyone does but when as a fan base here that doesn't see the owner yeah i don't know that you can find Murray Edwards talking on the record about the funds. No. No. It is neat to see like, hey, this guy that happens to have a lot of money really does care about winning and is just like us that like, you know, is mad at the league

Starting point is 01:11:51 for this. And you can see he's part sports fan. And that's of course why he spent a billion dollars on the Sands. Yeah. He very much like, he bought the team and he's like, all right, I'm going to be a fan of this team and I'm going to be all about Sands Culture. I get that. We'll see how it plays out. We'll see how it plays out with still the honeymoon, right? I think there's a little bit of that. Yeah, it's still very much early days, but also the fact that they made the playoffs helps. Yeah, big time.

Starting point is 01:12:13 I think it's team in the right direction. I'm inclined to think so, too. That division's been a real tough nut when you look at, you know, Toronto just stacks 100-point seasons together, playoff success, a different story. Just to get in, you've got to be better than them. Tampa and Florida, the finals have run through there for seemingly a decade, it feels like.

Starting point is 01:12:30 Almost a decade. So you're like, that's tough. There's two of them there. Boston is starting to fall off. As they are, you're like, Montreal's getting better. Detroit almost made it two years ago. Buffalo can't be this bad forever. Maybe they can.

Starting point is 01:12:43 But like the division, it's finally starting, you're starting to see, I guess, a bit of a shift to the powerhouse. Because it used to just be those four contenders every year, Toronto, Boston and the Florida teams. And then it's like, yeah, well, maybe you get a wild card, but you're not good. Yeah, I think Ottawa was still in that point where they're competing for a wild card. And I think even after they got eliminated by the leaps in the first round, they were like, you know what man like these teams in the division we're in speaking as in the perspective from the players like they know they're going to find ways to get better i look at what montreal did where they get themselves no adoption and i think that's a team that i mean they might also be in that wild card spot

Starting point is 01:13:22 too but like they clearly took steps to try to be better demidov and hudson like that's that feels like you got two stars in the last year like to see the stars on that team and how fans are vibing around them. Nick Suzuki also being like an 80 point player on that team like they got players. If they figure out a way to defend consistently, that's a that's a that's a that's a playoff team like you don't have to worry about. But I think like this year coming like still some growing pains maybe for them to go through but maybe they take this giant step that no one sees coming. If you're the Ottawa senators where you have a solid core, I don't know like I feel like at least in the regular season you got to you got to be mindful of how the much truck

Starting point is 01:13:57 campaigns are. But I also think with how the Sends are and the core that they've accumulated and the they want to play. I think they have a bit of an advantage on the Canadian still, but I think if you're the Sends, yes, you're going around and be like, hey, man, we want internal growth to kind of carry our guys in our core,

Starting point is 01:14:16 but like, that's why I think they need to do that effort on the season. They could. I mean, they have salary cap flexibility, which is really important to them. I don't think we should ever rule up the Ottawa standards for stuff like that. Great chatting,

Starting point is 01:14:30 Puck with you. Always. Love that. But there's lots of other stuff. if I want to touch. Yes. You got a book coming out in February. That is a long way away.

Starting point is 01:14:37 You can pre-order it now, Amazon Indigo. It'll be at the independent bookstores, I'm sure. Yes, black aces. It's called Black Aces, Essential Stories from hockey's Black Trailblazers. And there's some really principal characters that cut their teeth and were stars and predominantly had the peak of their careers here in Calgary. Yeah. Like, Jerome McGillah, for me, like, he was the first person I approached about this book

Starting point is 01:15:01 project. and I never felt more terrified in my life asking someone if they wanted to do anything and when he was like, yeah, like I'll be interview for your book, I was just like, all right, if you like, thank God, like this book's a whole lot easier. Oh my God, yeah. And the fact that he was willing to provide a forward to

Starting point is 01:15:16 like that was really awesome as well. But yeah, I wanted to put together a project just kind of highlighting select black players, men's players, female players and also some names that you might not have heard about people like Blake Bolden who does great work on Amazon but also played in the NWHL, Kelsey Kohlzor, who was like the first black player,

Starting point is 01:15:36 male or female to ever be drafted first overall in an North American draft, or Dante Abercrombie, who in 2026 is going to start his hockey program with Tennessee State. The first time we're going to see a men's hockey program at an HBCU. Like I wanted that mix of like...

Starting point is 01:15:54 HBCU, just so people understand. Historically Black College University. Yeah. Yeah. Like for like there are those stories, but like you're getting Jerome again. and you're getting like so many people of all the people I profiled for that book like so many people in and around the league whether you're media whether your players they have so many great things to say about him I have a cousin who lives here who told me a story didn't make the book but like he lived in a part of town uh where unfortunately he had lost his home in a fire and I hope I'm not telling the story wrong but like I think his mom worked for the again was and they might have been a maid or something and then then like as they were getting back on their feet like Jerome like sent like a barrel of clothes and stuff like that like Jerome as a human being as a guy is like one of the nicest people could be around and on the ice he is I'm going to quote Drew Daddy when I say this he's an absolute prick he's just but he's an icon he's a legend but also for so many people particularly like of my age growing up who you watch hockey we all live in this country all live in Canada and we all appreciate the sport for what it is but you see a lot guys who look like Pender and you're like all right.

Starting point is 01:17:01 i don't see myself but then you see jerome mcginlin you're like wait a minute like this dude can't like this dude's playing for team canada like that means something yeah to people and to have people like like jerome mcgimma to have people like grant fear who only played the year in in calgary but like that meant a lot to a guy like freddie bathway who a lot of flames fans really enjoyed we love freddie they loved in this market and like i know his brother does some community work for i think the conucks foundation or something like that i've met him but like the nicest guys you can super nice incredibly friendly and freddie saved them in a year where they must someone had a voodoo doll of the flames goal tenings you went one two three four you went like five six seven goalies deep that year like my buddy tyler moss got

Starting point is 01:17:43 to look that year was great for that might have been a tyrone garner year too like there was so many guys that got a stuff and then finally with freddie you're like this guy can actually stop the puck this is a credible we got a goalie we found a goal and it was like a really cool guy that the team wanted to build around for like a community aspect like it's one thing to have a guy who was like a ned who's kind of cool but it's like whoa like freddie brathaway like he's this cool likable athlete and also he's black like if you're if you're a young guy like again like me like growing up like you don't see a lot of guys who look like yourself in that sport all of a sudden you're like holy crap like there's a guy who's playing really well i want to be like that guy i want to take up the sport and like freddie bathway has

Starting point is 01:18:20 like a cool story like coming up from the pina in ottawa and and and playing well in the o hl and be on a memorial cup team and and eventually get to a point where he's an hl goalie. Like that opportunity comes from in Calgary where he's like, hang out with Tyler Moss. And it's like, damn, shit, we need a goalie. He ends up being pressed in the service. And it works out. Like, he's a guy who I really enjoyed writing about him and telling his story in the book I wrote. So I'm, I'm really happy that he's in that book. When, how does it work? This, I imagine the first book you've written. And like, was it exhausting? Was it easy to do? Did you have to like book two hours a day to do it? Was it like, no, no, in the summer,

Starting point is 01:18:59 I'm going to go hard at this. Like, you're dealing with a public. You've probably got an editor. There's all kinds of word timelines. Like for me, it's a nightmare. I would procrastinate to the last minute and be like, yeah, I didn't do the book. Oh my God. No, I, that was something I did like throughout. Like I got approached about writing a book by my agent Brian Wood, August 20, 23 or September

Starting point is 01:19:18 2023. It was right after the story broke about Bill Peters coaching the WHL. And I wrote about that. And they asked me if I would be interested in just writing something about race and hockey. And the idea kind of came to me. Just like looking at what people like William Douglas do for NHL.com where they have a blog called Color of Hockey and they write about stories of black people and POCs just doing great things in the sport. And there have been other people who have tried to do what I've done essentially where they highlight a couple players. But like in the early 2000s, like there were the pool of black players who were prominent enough to write about it was like much smaller.

Starting point is 01:19:54 But like now that number has like grown. Like I mean older guys like a Jerome McGillah or an Anson Carter or. Grant Fier, but then you have guys now, like a, like a quitting byfield who's in the book. Like he's, he's a great example of someone who current generations now can look at and be like, wow, that's someone I want to, I want to be like, right? He could look up to guys. Like, you can see how it feeds off itself. That's it, right?

Starting point is 01:20:17 Like, it was, it was cool to, to get that opportunity to, like, what I had the, like, what I thought was, you know what, maybe that would work. And then I want to say, like, around the time when the flames were in Edmonton for the outdoor game. They had a big event unveiling a stamp, commemorating Willie O'Reat. And I thought, well, you know what? There's all these people here who I wanted to talk to for my book, like Josh LaHawk was there, Sarah Nurse was there, Anton Carter was there.

Starting point is 01:20:46 There were a lot of people I wanted to talk to for that. Grant Fier was there too. And I kind of got the ball rolling with them and just tried to remember that scene too. It's funny. Like, as that process was going on, I thought, oh, yeah, cool. I want to talk about like some of those guys like Jerome and all that. And I'm like, I can't really do this book without writing about Willie O'Rey. Right.

Starting point is 01:21:04 So he's got to start the beginning, right? Yeah, he's at the beginning. But also, I want people to know the story of Herb Carnegie, too, because that's a guy who, his chapter's right after Willys. And people don't know who he is, but that's a guy who should have been Willie O'Ree before Willie O'Ree was a thing. For context, like, Herb Carnegie played, like, obviously years before Willie O'Ree was a thing, played like semi-pro was like super talented and is seen as like the best black player to never make it into the NHL. Because of society.

Starting point is 01:21:37 Yeah. There's a story that I read about in the book and Elliot Freeman actually interviewed him about it where I forget which decade had happened. But he's playing at the Toronto Gardens and he's on this like young like team and Conn Smythe of the Maple Leafs is like sitting in the stands like looking at him practice with his team. and like one of his coaches like goes over to to her and he's like you know if someone could find a way to like turn you white like we'll put you on the team like tomorrow like you're that good like if someone could or like it's either like there's two versions of that story where it's either if someone just turns you white like we'll put you on the team tomorrow or like someone will get paid $10,000 and they could find a way to turn her Carnegie white and if you go on YouTube you could find the interview where Elliott Freeman talks to Herb Carnegie Herb brings that up. And he is visibly emotional. He is visibly distraught. It is something that affected him. And it's something that like it broke him.

Starting point is 01:22:38 It tore him. And he ended up having to go through this pro career where he's dominating at all these levels. He plays with like Jean Beliveau for a little bit in Quebec. And he doesn't get that opportunity in Jean Belvo's book. Sorry, I should say in Herb's book, Jean Belvoir writes the forward. And he's like, why didn't this guy get a shot? And funny enough, while he's playing up in Quebec, and actually I think in Timmons, Ontario this happens.

Starting point is 01:23:03 He ends up on the line with his brother and another guy, Mani McIntyre, and that scene as like the first all black line, and they call him the Black Aces. So like it's funny, like people look at the name of your book, and you're like, yeah, like there's all these cool players, but like Herb Carnegie, like, you don't get Black Aces without him. And you don't get guys like Willie O'Re and Val James and Mike Marson without what Herb was able to do,

Starting point is 01:23:30 and also the colored hockey league, but also like Herb Carnegie especially. So I hope people read those stories too, even if there are of names that they wouldn't necessarily think of or recognize and they come away learning something. It's a really good point because everyone knows the Jackie Robinson, Willie Horace stories, but it's only stories if guys weren't being allowed it.

Starting point is 01:23:47 That's it, right? So it's like how many guys could have been that guy? Like at some point, there's a tipping point, whether it's an owner or society or a city saying enough's enough, but yeah like that's why they're big names because before them it wasn't fair it wasn't fair and people weren't letting them in man but yeah i i it was it was an absolute honor and a pleasure to be able to do that project and i know there are people who have been asking like oh yo so like where's this guy or where's that guy even if there isn't like a chapter dedicated to certain players

Starting point is 01:24:18 i tried to make sure that like there's different stories or moments mentioned with them so that way like they can read through and be like oh yeah well yeah right Mike Greer is like a GM he's the first black GM in the NHL so of course he's got to be he's great yeah he's pretty good is he's a Harvard guy is he not like he's a Boston he's a Boston university guy okay okay yeah he's got a sharp brother that like works in the NBA is GM too NFL Chris Greer but also like his his whole family like his dad and all that like they were they've worked in like player personnel and like management positions like that's a whole family thing for the Greers right and it's so cool to see a guy like Mike Greer not only just be a GM, but also it seems like he's getting some success, getting young players

Starting point is 01:24:57 for that San Jose Sharpsi. But I tried at least as best as I could, even if I didn't have a chapter dedicated to my career. Like, I tried to make sure that, like, he's in the book. Yeah. And I got people to talk about him and, like, just kind of make sure that his exploits are there. I just hope people read it and they learn something about some of the guys I profiled in that book.

Starting point is 01:25:15 Guys, we loved growing up. Great players. And also you can at least some for the sequel, I'm sure, because that's, there's no new ideas. We just do sequels apparently. Yeah. You know, I hope people who, whenever I decide to release the names, people are going to be there, they start tweeting at me, being like, why don't you put this player?

Starting point is 01:25:31 I ask that you tweet at Triumph Books and say, hey, do a second book. We need more. That's an incredible project. Thank you, ma'am. You know, you're 31. You've accomplished a lot. Yeah. It's wild.

Starting point is 01:25:43 And it was just a kid that wanted to cover sports growing up in Montreal. Incredibly cool that we got to cross paths in Calgary. I'm glad you're back in your free time. You're not forced to be here. You're choosing to come back to Calgary. I like Calgary as a city. I know there are people who were probably like upset when I left because they were like, oh, those guys clearly saw Calgary is a stepping.

Starting point is 01:26:05 So you didn't give this city a chance. I did. I really liked it. It's just circumstances got to a point where it's like, no, like I'm an ambitious person and I want to progress in my career and there was an opportunity for me to do that. But Calgary as a city, the people here, I love this. the city. And I think that to have had that opportunity to be a part of the media market, to have gone along with as many people as I did, yourself included. I appreciate the fact

Starting point is 01:26:32 Pinder that like when I came into this market and, you know, we'd have a little back and forth online, but like he was always respectful. And also that's a way for me to get embedded in the culture here. Because like, I could have easily just shown up here and you guys could have easily just been like, well, we don't give a damn about this guy. Like, who cares? Like, we're going to put them off to the side. But no, I felt. you guys and Piker and Steinberg and so many other people were really welcoming here. And I really meant a lot for me as a younger guy just like trying to make a name for myself. So that really means a lot.

Starting point is 01:27:01 You guys are really great. Appreciate that. Tell us about the CJ show because Chris I've had not a ton of interactions with, but enough to know he's a great guy. He's incredibly kind with his time. And he's got a sneaky little sense of humor as well. He was like chubby insider turned marathon runner. He's had like all these different chapters.

Starting point is 01:27:20 And he's got a bunch of pals. here in Calgary, he speaks highly of the city. I always love running into it. I love C.J. Brad. I love working with him on that show. It's something that I don't consider it to be work. I consider it to be something really fun and really amazing.

Starting point is 01:27:36 And I get it. We live in a world where 32 thoughts exist and like people go to that show. And hey, shout out EF and shout out Kyle. Like those guys are great. But I also appreciate the fact that like CJA knows stuff too. and we've done shows for four seasons now. We have our dynamic and we have a lot of fun whenever we can. And people love us, man.

Starting point is 01:27:58 People like our show. We have our 100 percenters and stuff. You've seen you do some live shows, big crux, things like that. Yeah, people show up, man. People pull up.

Starting point is 01:28:07 And to work with a guy like CJ who, as far as I'm concerned, like if you were to put everyone at the athletic, like on a depth chart, like how we do like hockey style. Yeah. He's a first line player. He's your one C.

Starting point is 01:28:18 He's your one C or your one C or your one. LW, whatever, but he has like a third liner mentality where he feels he needs to continue working hard to keep taking that next step. He's not satisfied. He's somebody who he lives, breathes, eats the sport and knows so much about the game. And my job is to just, you know, make sure that he shares as much of his intel with, with as much of us as we can. And like, I just appreciate the fact that he's so kind with his time.

Starting point is 01:28:49 and I've leaned on him for guidance and mentorship at different times too. And I like that through the podcast. We haven't, it isn't just like a, just a professional relationship where we do the podcast on Riverside and then we go on with our ways. Like when we see each other in person, you know, we give each other dab, we hugging each other. We, we, we've had drinks with each other. And, yeah, he's, he's somebody who I, I think highly of a lot.

Starting point is 01:29:14 And I told him when they asked me to do that show, like that show's going to change my life. And that show has changed my life in more ways that I can imagine. So, like, CJ's show for me is like, I love that show with every fiber of my being. That's rad. I encourage you to check that one out. It's a ton of fun. And you guys, you can feel the rapport. Like, that's good stuff there.

Starting point is 01:29:35 Man. It's like boom and retinae, right? Jack? Just best friends doing a show to you guys. Here's the thing, man. You guys deserve your flowers too because, like, you know, as someone who is an outsider and getting to know you and boomer and I mean, I didn't really get to know Rhett that well, but like seeing you guys do shows together, like you, the dynamic works perfectly. There's a reason why fans gravitate to you guys

Starting point is 01:29:58 and watch your content and love everything that you do. You guys are really great together. And the fact that you've built up this platform through Flames Nation and have achieved the success that you have, that's not something that was done overnight. That's something you guys worked hard at doing through your other stops as well. And the fact that you have achieved the success that you have you should be proud of yourself for that so i i always appreciate you guys being cool and i always appreciate your show and i still follow it from afar so you guys are served your flowers and it's really cool to see what the the uh the network has become and what you guys have been up to with the show like i'm really happy for you guys thanks dude appreciate it uh great to have

Starting point is 01:30:35 you back in town uh a pleasure for you to stop by can't wait for the book to come out god uh jerome was the most popular flame of all time and before the book drops in feb we'll get you back on to talk about it. Because obviously the stories are important, but you also have included the greatest flame of all time, which will, that'll move the needle here. That's it. We'll do it again. Yeah, right.

Starting point is 01:30:56 And I'll make sure you all get copies, man. I want to make sure. I want that bookshelf. I want that bookshelf to have that, to have that book. We got room. Yeah. Some of us can read even beyond a grade three level. So I hope there's not too many big words.

Starting point is 01:31:08 I want to make sure that book is there, man. Thanks for being here, Julian. Appreciate it. All the best in Ottawa this year. Hey, man. All the best to see you in Calgary. And thanks so much, guys. Appreciate it.

Barn Burner: Boomer & Pinder with Rhett Warrener - Julian McKenzie (FULL INTERVIEW)

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