Barn Burner: Boomer & Pinder with Rhett Warrener - Sean Avery (FULL INTERVIEW)

Episode Date: September 20, 2026

Pinder sits down with Sean Avery for a wide-ranging conversation about his life in hockey and everything that’s come after it. Avery talks about The Sean Avery Show, playing in New York and Los Angeles, his time with the Rangers and what he thinks about today’s generation of NHL players. The guys get into whether Avery could see himself working in hockey again, his relationship with John Tortorella, coaching, acting and some of the wildest moments from his playing career — including the infamous “sloppy seconds” comments involving Dion Phaneuf. Avery also reveals who he considers his biggest arch rival from his NHL days and reflects on a career where he was never afraid to piss a few people off.Video Link: https://youtu.be/gRnZSnLorEY00:00 Intro00:30 The Sean Avery Show03:00 New York / Los Angeles08:00 New York Rangers11:30 Today’s NHL Players17:30 Avery’s Future in Hockey?23:30 John Tortorella / Coaching27:30 Acting Career38:00 The Dion Phaneuf “Sloppy Seconds” Story42:30 Avery’s Biggest NHL Arch Rival#nhl #nhlshorts #nhlplayoffs #nhlpredictions #nhlhockey #nhlpicks #stanleycup #stanleycupfinal #newyorkrangers CHECK OUT OUR STUFF ⬇️BARN BURNER MERCHhttps://nationgear.ca/collections/shirts/FlamesnationBARN BURNER SHORTS https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLj_bcGtvvo-cW2DHEDZ6dEO5ePDmlhZc9&si=jo8iNGxT4ImhS2Y8📲 Follow us:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fnbarnburner/X (Twitter): https://x.com/barnburnerfn?lang=en🎧 Listen on:Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/be/podcast/barn-burner-boomer-pinder-with-rhett-warrener/id1648562889Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3Mc6Qd5U22R2zbMlQ7RxIiProducer: Jack Haverstock Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Please welcome to the show, one of the more controversial hockey players and a man with an incredibly eclectic taste in things to do in life. Sean Avery, you'd be introduced as a hockey player many times in your life, but I feel like that it might be selling you short at this point. It might not be what you identify as at this juncture in your life. Yeah, I mean, I think, well, first of all, thank you for having me. And I guess I'm welcoming myself to the family. That's right. Yeah. So let's talk about it. The Sean Avery show is joining the Nation Network a week before the NHL season starts. How excited are you? And you're not new to the podcast space, but it's been a minute. And you've got a bunch of new life experiences on your belt since you last did it. Yeah. I mean, I think, first of all, I think what's great about you guys and all the other outlets under the parent banner Nation Network is, I love the regional

I love the passion behind regional coverage. I think that too many times now it's like a global opinion of certain things and sometimes that can outweigh really the minutia which is

the regional coverage. Back in the day you'd open up a newspaper when I was playing in New York. There was a New York Islander beat writer. There was a ranger beat writer, a devil's beat writer. A devil's beat writer. and they had soul to them. You know what I mean?

It wasn't this like generic bullshit blanket where everybody can get up and get their microphone blasting off. So that was the big draw to me because and what's interesting is I'm not even sure what regional network I'm going to be in yet. Obviously New York is going to be a focus.

But like I want I want to love, I want three. I want to be mom. moderate about one, which is New York, but obviously extremely critical, but going into it with like great hopes for the team. I want them to do well. I want that franchise to succeed. I obviously have this, oh man, it would be fun if Toronto was just a real dumpster fire and I can lean into them a little bit. Hey, we're in Western Canada. You're preaching to the choir, Sean. There's no dumpster fire like a Toronto dumpster fire. Yeah. So that would be nice.

and then sprinkle in like my my surprise pick i mean obviously san ozay is going to be fun to watch yeah that's an early game for me so just logistically it makes sense because i'm in l a i'm i'm on the west coast yeah holy fuck watching those kids play it's just like uh what a breath of fresh air it's incredible and they're and then they add stanberg and they're they're all going to be a year older and better it's it's it's only going to get more interesting they're the funnest team for sure for me last year and Celebrity jumping to like a hundred and 15 point guy and going to the Olympics. She's like, holy shit,

like this is Sid Jr. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. Maybe better. Maybe better than crazy. Yeah. You know. How do you split your time between New York and L.A.? Because acting has become a big part of your life. You've been in a bunch of movies now, not to mention TV shows and other series,

either playing yourself or being an actor, three very big movies with Christopher Nolan. Like, how how do you split time between New York, which I leave has been home base for a lot of your adult life versus LA, which is obviously where as an actor, unless you're doing theater, that's where you hang. Yeah, I think it's a good balance. Last year, I was in New York quite a bit because it was the Rangers centennial anniversary. So they have an incredible alumni program. We were, I was, I was there quite a bit. New Jersey's got a new headquarters for Netflix. It's good to be able to kind of

touch both coasts i think at this point um la is obviously incredible because the weather is beautiful every day and this is where the business is centered i think at a certain point i'd like to get back to the east coast i'm definitely more of an east coast guy um but i i bounce back and forth you know obviously doing this new show i'm going to i'm going to i'm going to i don't necessarily think i'm to lean into the game more because I've been watching quite a bit over the last two years, three years. But it's good to be in the arena and just kind of, you know, you got to watch games live. Because there's a lot of things you see when you watch a live game that you don't on television.

I get to see the bench. I get to see whether or not the assistant coaches are engaged and really like working with the players. all the shit that you can't see on a broadcast, the stuff that I want to be critical about with certain teams, I want to make sure that I can see that stuff, see that stuff, see it really happening, because like that's the stuff that gets me interested. You know what I mean? It's not just, there's a lot of incredible analytics people on shows, online. That's kind of not my thing. I really want to kind of feel it more. So I think it'll be a healthy balance.

The problem is when I'm in L.A., I have zero desire. This is a team that I just like so much. I can't go watch the Kings. I don't like them. I can't even, I like them so little that I can't even rag on. You know what I mean? Like that is just a time suck watching that team and that organization. They have no alumni program.

They have no soul in that arena. Obviously, Copatar is gone. What an incredible career. I despise the LA Kings. I despise. And you know what? It's so fitting that they took one of my least favorite players in the NHL, Artemmy Panarin, gave him 24 million to do, I don't know what, you know.

I can't go and watch that team. So I'll be back and forth. Where's the breadman hate come from? Like he's obviously been a prolific point producer over his career, but I don't know him. I only see the highlights. You know, the Ranger Faithful, they kind of feel like he serviced his needs.

And I would say the complete opposite, because I'm not interested in a guy that puts up 100 points in the regular season and then just disappears in the playoffs. Like, it's simple as that. You know, that's it. I'm more interested in a guy, that puts the team on his back down the stretch or just always, you know, they cried or they ran

Kreider out of town, right? Yeah. Crider did more for that organization than arguably anybody in the last 50 years from a, and, and he was a ghost sometimes and he was streaky, but you accept that as players when you know that they're going to come through in the clutch. and Kreider's always come through in the clutch. He has. He's at big moments.

Panarin, he never did anything that impressed me. He never took the team, put them on his back and said, all right, I'm going to be the leader. He'd score goals and timely plays and things like that. But when you're a ghost, I'm not interested in that type of game. There's nothing that I hate more. Where are they at? Like you mentioned them running Kreider out of town. They also ran their captain, Trubo out of there.

They signed Barkley Goodrow as a free agent. and then basically said, waver, no trade, or we're putting you on waivers, you're out of here. Like, Chris Drury has hollowed out that core, and it kind of feels like who's next, not like, oh, that needed to happen. It's like, they're just trying to trade everyone, it seems. Like, Zabinajad, are you next? Like, what's going on?

I mean, obviously, you're building around Chesterkin at this point, but even Adam Fox at the end of the year, it was like, he's the guy that was like, I'm only going to be a ranger. That's how his career started. He was drafted and his rights changed hands until he eventually was a ranger. wasn't going to play in the NHL. Like, where the hell are they at?

And what has Christyry done with this team that was, you know, in the Eastern Conference final like three years ago? No, I'm not sure. You know, I'm really not sure. And I think that's kind of universal across the board. What has Drew done? Other than somewhat alienate some core guys, definitely one Ranger legend whose number is going to go up in the rafters, Crider's going to get a,

number in the rafters. I mean, statistically, I would say a Hall of Fame player too. But what has Drew done? And this is what I say, where are my draft picks? Where is my farm team? Where is my bottom six? Where is the identity of this team? You just keep bringing in new faces and the J.T. Miller experiment. What is going to happen with that one? And the no trade clauses that you, you give guys and then try and act on them and somehow think that they're not going to exercise it. Like, that's why they got it in the first place. Okay.

And all GMs should stop doing that. If you have a system in place and you constantly are filling core spots with new draft picks and free agent signings, not free agent signings eight years into their career, I'm talking about free agents that come to a camp because they weren't drafted for whatever reason. Because the scouting system is still archaic and it's this kind of rule by committee and I think the wrong guys are on the road looking at the future players. I think of like a guy like Shane O'Brien, Shane's in the in the podcast, hockey show space now. I want a certain skill set of guys that are scouting. And I'm building my team through that.

And honestly, it shouldn't take that long because you don't have the excuse anymore of, oh, it's an older league. It's a 28, 33-year-old league. That's the window. That's the furthest thing from the truth. It's a 26 and under league now. Sprinkled with a couple of those older guys, obviously you need a big-time goalie. But what is Drew done?

What, what exciting young rookie has he given us? I mean, he hasn't. He has. Funny way, it's almost like Rempay is the, and he's the exactly what you're talking about. He's not high pick. He's not skill. You, you made an incredible impact in the sport.

As a role player, you had incredible notoriety. And that means, A, you understood your role. You were good at getting under people's skin, instigating. you had a way to put your fingerprints on the game, not as the most skilled guy on the ice. Do you see that as a lost art or one that there's fewer and fewer players that you say, that guy kind of played like I did? No, I think that they're out there.

Landon Sim. You know, there's some of these, the kid in Toronto, Easton Cowan, I thought had a little bit of that. Maybe he's got some more. But maybe there's other players that, don't fit into the mold. It's like the famous money ball scene when Brad Pitt's sitting there and the scouts are all throwing darts at a board and they're like, oh, he's got four attributes, but he's got an ugly girlfriend. It's like, yeah, okay, maybe the ugly girlfriend is something that I want to zone in on.

But also the other four things that you guys are talking about, that's archaic. I want to find guys that want to make it their life. life's mission to make it to the NHL, first and foremost. That's like my number one priority. If you don't want to live and breathe and die the game, then I'm not interested. Now, if you're a bit of a gunslinger and, you know, you do some questionable things and you live a little fast, that doesn't mean you don't live and die by the game. That means we can mold you. That means I need a Martin seeing Louis, who's played with every sort of player, has seen it all. I want that guy captaining the ship so that he can mold my players and turn this into a team. A collaborative

effort where everybody lays it on the line, much like, you know, a Colorado of the 2000s or Red Wings of the 90s, early 2000s. And I'm not saying that this is an easy thing to do, because look at Steve Iserman. I mean, I go Stevie and had great staff and Draper, Jesse Wallen, Sean Horikoff, Dan Cleary, all these dogs, you know what I mean? But for some reason, they never brought me any dogs to the table. And I'm going, where's the disconnect here? Where's the disconnect?

Do we all just get a little too corporate in this environment? I want, you know, Tampa Bay is a great example. Like, that fucking guy in Tampa Bay, he finds these stones and he polishes them and turns them into jumps. Now, it's tough to do that for 10, 12 years straight. And obviously, Cooch is going to get old at some point. Headman's had some issues and got banged up a little bit. They're all older, Braden points older. But like, I want the turnover to happen now.

and I need a generational player every four to five years. If you're not finding that, then what are you doing? What are you doing? You're waiting around going, all right, we got a franchise goalie. We got nine years. Like, no, you have two years. This is how our mentality should be. We need to find the next guy so that he's ready and four.

and I think the ecosystem of these organizations are totally broken. They're totally fucking broken. And I don't think they challenge each other enough internally. And there's too much hierarchy and all the bullshit instead of, and I'll bring it back to like a movie set and making The Odyssey and being on set with Matt Damon and then, you know, a bunch of us that are, you know, just making our way into the business and finding our, our niche.

Everybody is in that fucking ecosystem pulling, rowing the, the fucking boat at the same time because we're trying to move the story forward. We're not trying to take any shine. And the camera, when the camera's pointed on you, you get an opportunity. Otherwise, you fucking fill the frame. That's what we're supposed to do. everybody's on a row and we're trying to get to the same destination that's what i want from a team that's what i want from a team i want training camp to be a war and you know i it's frustrating because

we're seeing some of these teams do it anaheim's doing it san ozay's doing it you know it's happening and then you look at a toronto and it's like my good god my good god or calgary honestly Algar. I mean, what the fuck? And I played with Craig Conroy. I know Connie. He was a dog. He played hard. You know, he wasn't, Connie wasn't the, he wasn't sandpaper. Okay. But he played hard. But where's that team? Yeah, they're rebuilding, Sean. They're, they're, they're, they're, they have been selling good players for three years. And they have a prospect covered that they're hoping yield some stars. Like they're, I'd think, they're one of the worst three teams in the league coming up. Maybe we're out to lunch, but it's a team that's getting real young and they don't have a star. And where is the prospect pool? Like, is training camp going to be an interesting?

It's still lottery tickets, right? Like, I like the Carson Carl's kid. They draft six overall. They got an 18-year-old that led college in scoring last year. They got a really good centerman in Cole Resch that played at Nodak. It's a deep system, but they don't have a superstar there. That's what they're missing. You know, what's per rec. We'll see. But, yeah, They're missing the big number one center Joe Thornton star. Like they're missing the celebrini piece, which obviously everyone would love to have. It's not that easy.

But I'm fascinated to hear the hockey show. I'm excited about your takes on hockey. I want to ask you about some non-hockey stuff. I mean, do you want to be in the hockey front office? Do you want to be an actor? Do you like being an author, which you've been? You know, you're a huge, I guess, student and fan of fashion.

You're an intern at Vogue magazine. You've done a ton of shit, man. Like, you've been all over the, the non-hockey space, which I think is outstanding in a sense that most guys that playing the NHL, they spend the rest of their life talking about the NHL. It's like, well, maybe I can go out here, maybe I'll coach there. They're hanging on this one chapter of their life. It really feels like you have some other chapters that at the end of your life might be

bigger than your hockey chapter. Yeah, I mean, I think there's no question now that the page has turned as far as like what my profession is today, which is an actor, which is waking up. up and either reading scripts, auditioning, or I'm actually working now consistently, which you know, then now combines a little bit of the two, which is preparation and learning your lines and being somewhere and being away from home and all the stuff that comes with that. But the most consistent thing out of all of it is I have this like pointer stick and I watch games. watch hockey games.

And I'm continually drawn to it more and more. Could I ever see something happening? Like, what would be, geez, you never know. You never know, right? But what I would be able to do and would love to do. And it's interesting that I haven't got the opportunity yet, but I'm sure it's going to come and it's going to come at the worst time, because that's just how this stuff works.

I would love to be able to just come in and kind of jump in. I'd like to go to World Juniors. I'd like to watch those games. I'd like to go to under 18. I'd like to do a block of junior games once a year. And then I would like to sort of review every Scouts board. Yeah. And just kind of, because like, I want to understand and see who you think.

think is a player. And I'm very critical of people that didn't play the game at a high level to a certain extent. Now, you can have a very leveled opinion because you watch a ton of hockey and you play college and that's fine. But when I'm talking about putting the nuts and bolts together of a team, I want somebody that has been through the same sort of challenges as the kid that they're bringing in. I kind of want that same wavelength. So if I could ever be in a situation where somebody's like, yo, I need you, I need you as much as you can give, then I would be into it. Now, if Drew really shits the bed and Quentin Dolan, who is Jim's son, who's now running the team, and I've known Quentin for a long time, and if Quentin wakes up one morning and comes to his senses and goes,

fuck it, fuck it, fuck it, let's go, let's go. I'll give him two years. I'll give him two years and see what happens. because it's not just about, obviously, you need some time to get the assets in, but you can go to the American League and find dogs right now that are free agents that you don't have to develop that are going to play on your bottom six and give you the hardest bottom six in the entire NHL. All right. And then you got to find a coach. You got to find a coach.

And one of my biggest issues with one of my closest friends in the world, Brendan Shanahan, who allowed Sheldon Keith to coach his team for eight or nine years or whatever it was, was just one of the most maddening, insane decisions that I've ever, I couldn't ever get over it. And I still can't because I believe he's still coaching New Jersey. I can't have that type of, I, okay, I played against Sheldon Keith since I was eight years old. I played against him in the NHL. No, no, no. it's the wrong guy guys okay there's like eight guys all right i'm not going to put steve off

in the same category as marvin st louis but otter played a lot of nch l games one big games was a big time guy rose to the occasion all right there's another handful of guys like that where that's who i'm given i'm giving the reins to that i don't know this uh hillier guy in in Toronto. I saw him at a concert. He was with my buddy Joey Scolary in Toronto. He had an ill-fitting shirt. He looked like he was having a good time.

It bothered me. You know what I mean? So that's what I'm interested. And I don't even know what the original question was. Oh, coming back to the game. Yeah. Yeah, you never know. But there's a handful of, there's only a

couple of teams that could do that. I mean, you know, Toronto's run by a committee for the most part. A lot of these teams are run by Board of Governors. Yeah. I'm a one-owner guy. I'm a, I'm a, come in,

I'm answering to either the GM a la the great Glenn Sather, who was essentially an extension of Mr. Dolan, and it was you know, their way or the fucking highway type of situation. Mm-hmm. Tell me about Torts, speaking of New York and speaking of coaching. Yeah, I mean, he was the worst.

He was the worst. So you played for a lot of coaches, that's the one. If you had to rank him, worst coach you played for. Oh, easily, easily. And, you know, my internal reasoning, I've talked about it many times. It's too dark. I don't even want to fucking bring it up. People can find it out.

But, you know, he was. just a guy and listen what happened in Vegas I mean like have we ever seen anything like this where a guy comes in with 10 games left takes the team to the Stanley Cup final and then doesn't get ass back

it was crazy like how does that guy not get his contract like you were a couple saves and posts away from winning a cup like what are we talking about here so yeah but but you know I wasn't in the room you were Sean you tell us well yeah and and and torts is torts is the ultimate bluffer he's the ultimate bluffer.

And also, you know, listen, fine, you didn't play in the NHL, but you got to be able to skate and take a pass on the ice during practice. Otherwise, all bets are off for me. You don't climb up a guy's asshole out as fucking earballs unless you understand the game that he's playing. All right? You have a temperament. You have a level of respect to your players.

I mean, torts won a Stanley Cup with a fucking. stacked, loaded team of Hall of Famers 20 years ago and hasn't done a fucking thing since, except run teams into the ground, wear out is welcome, get fired, and then get rehired. Because every time that a team comes to an inflection point and that, you know, management are going, we need some accountability in this place. You know, they can't call Quinville because they clipped his wings. So we go, okay, let's call John Torrelle. He's still employable.

Although Mr. Babcock, my first coach in professional hockey, probably, arguably one of my best coaches and maybe the reason that I actually made the NHL was because of this guy. So, but Babs was much different than Torts, two different animals. Two different animals, okay, because Babs, it was a psychological, game. He's a psychological mastermind of insanity on a level that probably only works with certain people. Me at 20 years old, he matched my, I guess, fuck, I don't even know what you would call it, but like energy, and he tapped into me and I can understand how to play the game from this guy. Torts is just a bully. He's a little bully. He's a little bully. He's a little bully.

you know, and doesn't do anything abnormally interesting with his teams, tries to get them to block shots, has totally changed his tune on accountability. He's a miserable prick on the bench. And, you know, part of the reason I can't get excited about the Rangers is because Mike Sullivan is the head coach, who is the assistant coach under Tortorella and who's the most miserable, foul-mouth marble-fold, fucking Boston asshole on the face of the earth. So. That's hell of a tag. I like that. You know, like, Sully,

whatever, whatever, you know, thank God for Jack Hughes and a couple of those guys, those Americans that played fucking, just brought their A-game to the Olympics. Okay. Tell me about, when you're passionate for acting stare. Well, we'll close with some hockey stuff later, but we've hammered. Yeah, we've done a lot of non-hockey in your life,

which I find fascinating. I mean, that's because we just come in and talk hockey every day and it's nice to talk about something else. But did you always want to be an actor or was it something that like once you, oh my gosh, I'm living in New York, shit, like there's this other sphere of performance that I didn't know I'd be interested in. No, I didn't. And a friend of mine that I'd become friends with

while I was playing Peter Berg, a lone survivor director was an actor on Chicago Hope for a long time was friends with Chris Chelyos I became friends with Pete when I retired Pete put me in a movie called Patriots Day

with Mark Wahlberg about the Boston bombings and I don't know man I was just like holy shit this is this is like incredible this is incredible you're standing around and there's two 200 people.

All of a sudden, director calls action. And it's like, stakes are high. Stakes are really high. Time is money. You know, if you fuck up, everyone's looking at you. It's literally like this. It's like the money's on you. You get to, you get that juice, very similar to playing in Madison Square Garden.

And it just bit me. And then everyone thought I was crazy. because like for five or six years i just went to an acting class in new york and tried to figure it out try to understand how do i do this because you can't just decide to do it really you can't like it's the whole 10 000 hours you need reps you need uh you need bats at the plate the whole thing and i just kind of stuck with it and i think the beautiful thing about being an athlete is we internalize criticism incredibly well. When we get criticized, it comes inside of us and we do a formulation to fix it.

We don't pull it in and let it like sit and fester. It's like a fucking math problem. What did you do? Why are you doing that? F3. You're F3. You're the first guy back. Fix it.

Okay? So when I started this process, because this is a punishing business, trying to be an actor, it is unforgiving. There are so many fucking variables that go into things, whether it's your height, your size, your skin tone, what credits you've had, who is your agent, how many social media followers you have the entire spectrum now. I never gave a fuck about any of those things. I was just like, okay, I didn't get that job. Great. I'm going to get the next one. Like, I'm not going to stop until I break through on this casting office.

And just a little bit at a time, you kind of chip away at it. You kind of chip away at it. And the strong survive. I'm at an inflection point clearly. like it's happening. I'm doing it. And it feels like I'm a rookie in the NHL. You know,

because this is what's so interesting about this sport, the sport of acting. I can do it for 30 years. Right. I can do it for another 30 years. I can. So at the beginning when we, you know, it's like we introduced me as a hockey player.

which of course I'm always going to be a hockey player. But at some point, I guess maybe people are going to have to introduce me as like an actor. And a former hockey player, right? I think so that was the original bug. Pete put me in that movie. And then, you know, I also took a chance, like I said, against all odds. Like, no, no, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this while my peers were going.

and working themselves up in systems in the NHL and now our assistant GMs or coaches or whatever it was, I was doing this fucking wild thing that I really don't think anyone probably paid attention to or thought was going to work. I admire it. Like, I think a lot of us in life, we just say, okay, this is what I do and this is what I'm good at. And we don't have the stones to be like, well, what if I tried something else? Like, oh, my gosh, we starting at square one.

And like, man, like, entry level and a different. career. God, that's that's a scary thing. And especially when as a professional athlete, you can lean on that the rest of your life if you want to. You can be an analyst. You can go shake hands and kiss babies. You can join front offices. You can coach. You don't have to find something else to do, but you found other passions to chase, including writing. You've got a book out there. But the acting one, you got an incredible amount of steam going like Christopher Nolan movies, Tenet, Oppenheimer. Now, the Odyssey, which is apparently everything. everyone I've talked to is in factuary with this is one of the best movies ever like how cool does that feel to be the guy that was grinding in acting classes like oh yeah that one at the top of the box office earnings I'm in that yeah it feels good except I just like want more so it's kind of like playing there's so many similarities like you know I've had had a good little run here but like it can't stop now like

now I have this hunger for more. I want more responsibility. I want more, I want different parts. Although I love getting a gun and, and give me a gun and some fatigues and I'm at home. You know, I put me anywhere in a fucking jungle. I'll go anywhere at this point.

You know what I mean? Yeah. So is it a big role? Is that the next step? your career? Yeah, now I think now it's like, Neiman type stuff or is that still another like I don't, you know the industry better than I do clearly. Yeah, so right now I'm like the

the guest star king. So like I did an episode of the night agent which is coming out on Netflix season four this new show on CBS called Einstein where you come in and you play a certain character for one episode in the TV world and then you get to

you're out. You get your, you're get out. But for that, you know, month or three weeks, whatever it takes, it's essentially like your, yes, you're getting much more responsibility. The stakes are even higher. You're higher on the call sheet. Maybe you get a nicer trailer and all that shit. But like, yes, it's that increment of moving up the ladder in the responsibility. Because it's not about, it's not about like getting your face. I think one of the reasons that I keep getting to work with Chris

is like I understand I don't chew the scenery up. I fill frames. I make myself useful to an artist who's painting a picture. So it's kind of that just that gradual notch, just keep moving it up

and getting more interesting things. And that at some point it's going to be a big one, right? Like where there's more consistency and also a camera. character that everyone loves. For some reason, Jacob Tierney and fucking heated rivalry don't want me on their show, right? And it's crazy because they've got this mass hit. It's a hockey show. Gay hockey players. I was the first professional athlete in all major

sports to endorse same-sex marriage. I have my Kashmir Mafia card goes back fucking 15 years. I'm one of the O'Gs. All right. Why would Jacob Terny not give me a part on heated rivalry to also

legitimize the show a little bit? Because, yes, a lot of people love it. But if you go into an NHL locker room and you ask them about heated rivalry, nobody's going to give you a real answer. I know what the answer is. I know what the...

And it lacks. a little bit of legitimacy. So there's an example of like, frustrated. I think there could be a tremendous opportunity there for both parties, you know? Because at some point, it's like, we're going to go for a show like that. Well, you wrote the book. You're an awesome of a romance novel.

Like, and that predates it. And it's like exactly the genre that they are. Is it not? I mean, I've read the book, but it's, for what I've read. It's like, same idea. Yeah, mine's a straight version. Mine's a straight version. They had the gay version. I wrote the straight version with not enough sex, mind you. But, you know, hindsight's 2020. And we didn't know where the world was going.

And apparently there's a, not apparently. I mean, Jerry Brockheimer and Don Simpson in the 80s made a, you know, sex sells in great movies, whether it's Top Gun or Days of Thunder or fucking young blood. You know, they remade young blood and they didn't have Miss McGill. There was no tea with Miss McGill,

which is one of the greatest scenes in the history of sports movies. Slapshot, right? Lovely lady. Yeah. It's a staple in all movies. You need a little real name. Yeah. Bull Durham.

Yeah. So that big rule is coming. sometimes I wish that I could manufacture it a little bit more, which is why I brought up the heated rivalry situation. Because, but, you know, it's coming. It's coming. It's exciting. If I said December 2nd, 2008, do you know what I'm talking about or not?

It was in Calgary. That'll be. Oh, yeah. Because Sean Avery is like an agitator around the NHL. 2008. his job. December 2nd, 2008. A morning skate got a little circus like with the quote sloppy seconds line, which you apologize profusely for, as the league would tell you to do and as anyone in PR would tell you to do. Yeah. I mean, this is either A, you being like, I'm going to speak

my mind and I don't give a show what people think, or be like, I know how to get under people's skin and I am going to do it perfectly. And so walk me through what actually went down. Yeah, it was kind of a perfect storm because I wasn't fitting well. I was water to the Texas oil, okay? I didn't mix. Now I love Texas. At some point, I'll probably be on a Taylor Sheridan show in fucking Texas and love Texas. All right.

You're talking about the Stars team that you're on at that point. Yes. I played for the Dallas Stars for two months. Canadian media doing what they do. kind of getting in everybody's kitchens, building up something. It had nothing really to do with me, except my ex-girlfriend was now dating Dionne Funf, who I think at that point was then the Canadian Calgary Flames captain.

And, yeah, Brad Richards was stirring the pot, trying to get me going in the dressing room. And I was on a one-way train to destruction. I needed to blow everything up and get back. to New York. I think subconsciously I had that in my head. And I just let it rip, which, you know, by the way, terribly distasteful comment. But in the world of social media now, very mild compared to what some athletes say on any given day on their fucking Twitch live or Instagram live or whatever it was. But yeah, really, really.

Not a nice thing to say, not directed at the individual, more at everyone else. You know, it was like a big fuck you to everyone else because that was the world that I was living in. I, you know, I was the, as Taylor Swift says, I was the anti-hero. Yeah. And look, like, if your job's getting on people's skin, success. Yeah. We got to understand that that the role you played, a lot of it was. Just like there's a mental aspect of either intimidation or getting under people's skin or driving them nuts or doing something to get off there a game to allow your team to have more success.

Yeah. And listen, different league, different time. You know, now current NHL, we see the stakes get high in the playoffs. The Sam Bennett's come out to play, you know, the guys that make it hurt regular season and current NHL. it's not the same. Yeah. 2008. You still had the prongers.

You still had the crossover of those early 2000 killers like Scott Stevens. And you're just trying to fucking survive. I mean, it was a tough league. You can't compare the two leagues. It's done such, ultimately the final product, the teams that win the playoffs, they play the same way as a lot of the teams did. back then. But yeah, yeah, yeah. It was, it was a different game back then. And, you know, there weren't many guys that were even my size in the league at that point.

Totally. Yeah. For the role you played, you were small. Like to only be, what, 195, 510? Like, that's, you're giving up inches and dozens of pounds in every interaction, it seems. I was just small, period. I mean, those were the days of the Dustin Penner wingers. You know, we wanted big bodies on the wing. And, everybody was huge back then so yeah but again great hockey back then the product has has has always gotten better year after year because again ultimately in the playoffs it ends up in the same spot yeah guys trying to kill each other and whoever does the best job as a team wins did you have a like an arch rival or someone that was like the guy that you're like

like, either be your teeth. Chris Neal. Chris Neal. Okay. Wow. Darcy Tucker quite a bit. Yeah. I love Tucks.

I've never met him. Fuck, what a great player. I don't know, Neeler. He, I'm sure he's as annoying in real life as he was as a, as a player still to this day. But I'm not sure, you know. But he was a mean fucker. he picked his spots. You know, he fought a lot of battles, though.

Don't get me wrong. I liked Matt Cook, I would, I would, you know, much like everybody, I don't think anyone would put Matt Cook's fire at him. If he was on fire, I'm not sure if you took a vote. I mean, he was really despised. But he was a headhunter. He was a bad guy. Yeah.

Also married his. Billet from Junior. Didn't know that. Fractoid. I'm excited about your show, man, because if there's one thing I am sure of, for someone that I've not met in person, I know you're going to say whatever the hell you want.

I feel like that you're not going to pull punches and be polite and do things that people will think is proper. So I'm stoked to see it. It sounds like launch is going to be about a week before the season starts the Sean Avery show on the Nation Network. Very pumped to have you on board.

we'll be eagerly anticipating episode one. Thanks for joining us. I can promise you I won't be declaring my eligibility for the WNHL as well. Right. Yes. Yeah. You don't have to worry about that comeback, guys. Okay.

Okay. Well, that was my next. I'll just cross that one off. Good. Sean, always, always fun to hear your takes. Great to do it one-on-one this time and all the best with the show coming up. Thank you for welcome to. the family. Here we go, big season, the Nation Network, everybody involved. Yeah, great. I'll see you

guys soon.