Barn Burner: Boomer & Pinder with Rhett Warrener - Way-Too-Early World Junior Talk & Flames Top 20 Prospects | FN Back Burner - July 14th, 2025

Episode Date: July 15, 2025

Mike Gould and Ryan Pike are back with another episode of Back Burner!In this one, the guys dive into some way-too-early World Junior talk from a Flames perspective and break down how Calgary’s Top 20 Prospect rankings are starting to shift. Who’s rising? Who’s falling? And what should fans be watching for heading into the new season?SHOW TIMESTAMPS ⏰https://youtube.com/live/QwHQ8FgEsk4- Intro Banter (1:00)- Summer (3:30)- Development Camp (6:00)- NCAA (8:00)- Cullen Potter (10:0)- Theo (12:30)- More Potter (18:30)- World Juniors (21:30)- Zayne (22:00)- Summer Showcase (24:00)- Cole Reschny (30:00)- More Zayne (32:30)- Flames 2025 Class (36:00)- Flames Top 20 (45:00)- Overall Draft Thoughts (57:00)- Questions (01:02:00)Subscribe to @Flames_Nation on Youtube🚨➡️ / @flames_nation 🔥 After Burner ➡️ • FlamesNation Afterburner 📲 Follow us:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fnbarnburner/X (Twitter): https://x.com/barnburnerfn?lang=en🎧 Listen on:Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/be/podcast/barn-burner-boomer-pinder-with-rhett-warrener/id1648562889Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3Mc6Qd5U22R2zbMlQ7RxIiBARN BURNER BLONDE https://originbrewing.myshopify.comFLAMESNATION MERCHhttps://nationgear.ca/collections/flamesnationBARN BURNER SHORTShttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLj_bcGtvvo-cW2DHEDZ6dEO5ePDmlhZc9SHOUTOUT TO OUR SPONSOR!!👍🏼 Platinum Mitsubishi: https://www.platinummitsubishi.com/Reach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us!Producer: Jack Haverstock#NHLPlayoffs #Hockey #HockeyTalk #Playoffs #StanleyCup #EdmontonOilers #StanleyCupFinal #NHL #CalgaryFlames Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We're back. Burner. How's that for an intro, Pike? Not bad. I'm out of here. We're working on it. We're working on it. We're back for the burner.

I'm back burner here at Mardaloupe on a horrible day in Calgary. The weather is just absolutely terrible outside. It's probably about 13 degrees. They're punishing us for the stampede. We just had 10 days of revelry and we need to get that horsey smell out of town. And we need to. You ever been to New Orleans? No.

One of the weirdest things, folks, if you're getting a chance to go to scenic New Orleans, Louisiana, one of the weirdest things you'll ever experience in your life is at four or five

in the morning when all the drunkers are sort of staggering out, they bring in these water trucks. And some poor guy's job is he brings out a hose. And from a water truck, he just sprays down the streets of New Orleans. This feels like this is what nature is doing to Calgary

with this nice, you know, a nice stretch of rain, you know, it's been dry. It's, we've all gotten after it for 10 days. And then it's just time to, okay we're going to host things off now. Yeah, no, I've never been. But hey, I'll go have to try it out.

Go to the Smoothie King Center. We are here on a gorgeous Monday evening in Calgary, Alberta. After the conclusion of the Calgary Stampede, Pike, it's been probably about three or four weeks since we've had you here in studio. I was here a little over two weeks ago with our buddy, Kent Wilson, breaking down the NHL draft as it happened, or at least day one of the NHL.

draft. Yeah, you only did, you don't, you did like one seventh of the draft. I mean, you got, you did both first round picks. Yeah. You missed the meat of the draft, the, the heart and soul of the draft, the two seventh round picks. Yeah, yeah. I mean, the flames ended up making a trade. They got an extra seventh round pick. We're going to talk a little bit about it. Um, but we are here. And the flames have been maybe a little quieter this summer than, than folks were anticipating, perhaps, not you. I, you, you, you were, you kind of nailed it. You, you, uh, sort of, preached patience and we still have to be patient. Not a whole lot has happened.

But that doesn't mean that we're not going to sort of gather together here on the back burner, at least twice a month during the summer. We've got another show that we're planning later this month. It's going to have, we hope, a pretty good guest. More on that still to come. For now, though, today it is just Pike and I. And we're going to talk a little bit about some of the ongoing things surrounding the Calgary Flames. We're going to dig into the 2025 NHL draft, the haul that they got.

development camp Pike you were there I was not there because the on-a-s sessions were limited to just two days in the morning on Thursday and Friday and some of us some of us got to work but it was Wednesday and Thursday there's even worse so I mean we could talk a little bit about that why the schedule changed if maybe we'll ever get back to the way that it was I doubt it but in any event Pike first of all just how have you been holding up how's your summer been I'm still waiting for things to slow down, man. There's no shortage of things going on. And I think right now, Russian camps are starting. I'm sure our dear friend Stephen Ellis, DFO is probably watching some MHL training camps through various means. And yeah, the hockey world, we basically have, what, a week where things are relatively quiet. But you go from NHL development camps, right into Russian camps. We're going to have Russian junior pre-tournments stuff soon.

And then, you know, to QMJHL, you know, they've been doing rookie tournaments. Like the hockey world, it's a year-ad world now. There's the idea that, you know, some leagues get months off. But, you know, even the guys who take months off, I'm sure, you know, we were, the case in point, when we were watching on ice sessions at Winsport, there were probably like a half dozen NHL, you know, NHL and Ranglish players still skating. Yeah. So and, you know, like Dustin Wolf is still in town.

Justin Wolf is still here. Dustin Wolf, folks, if you get a chance to, I'll give a shout out to the folks of the Calgary Stampede, their social media team, because they had just some delightful content with Dustin Wolf in full Western regalia, just sort of experiencing the Stampede and just living with joy in his heart. And yeah, it was just, in general, I thought the Stampede did a great job of social content this year, but especially the Wolf stuff. It was just a lot of fun.

Dustin Wolf getting, should we say, hit on a little? bit by Shanaya Twain perhaps a little bit called him she called him a cutie I think I mean he's he's she's she's 60 next month and he's 24 uh perfect and I'm yeah she's married and I'm she's seeing somebody yeah yeah so we don't need to get in the personal eyes but like the does I say I think she just thought it was cute that he was wearing a Shanaya Twain shirt because everyone like Shania Twain is a national treasure and it seems like Dustin Wolf in the hearts of flames fans isn't far from it he is certainly important. embraced the Calgary ways in a number of different manners.

And he's still here. And who knows, maybe we'll see a little bit of business happening with Dustin Wolfe, who's less than a year away from needing a new contract. And a year ago today, we probably would have been talking about Dustin Wolfe in the context of this show. Of course, now he's in a situation where he's played more than 70 NHL games.

He's very much established himself as one of the best young goaltenders in the league. And now we have to sort of continue looking at the future. because Pike, we have gotten through development camp. The flames prospects have largely filed out of town. Most of the flames have filed out of town, Wolf notwithstanding, Justin Kirkland notwithstanding, but a lot of the folks, I mean, Michael Backland's at Wimbledon right now. It is right.

Center court. It is very much the off season here. So we have a few things to get through. We're going to talk a little bit about, you know, the standout at development camp, and you can sort of shied some light on this because most of the folks were there. Not a lot of people, not a lot of prospects were not at development camp. I think it was mostly just, you know, Jan Matviko and then Kareel Zerubin and a couple of other players.

But, you know, there's only so much that you can glean from skating drills. But from what you saw, what were your takeaways from those two days on ice at winsport? Well, I'm going to have the caveat that it's, I, I know folks are kind of grumpy that we can get a scrimmage. And I think that one of the main reasons is a lot of these guys, especially like the guys, you know, let's, let's, we'll single Cole Regini as an example. He's sort of a representative example being the, the flames first, first round pick this year. He did not really get a summer. And I don't know if he really hit the ice that much until

development camp. So the development camp was the first time on the ice for a lot of these guys. And, you know, I think as as entertaining as it can be for fans, to see guys going head to head in a scrimmage, it might not be the best evaluation tool, especially when guys are, you know, they might have gotten a week off and now they're just getting back on the ice after letting their bodies recover after a very long hockey season.

You know, we saw that with St. Preck last year, where St. Prec went from, off the top of my head. Royal Cup, draft Combine, draft development camp, summer showcase, maybe had a week off or two weeks off, trained, went to the OHL,

play it went the nchel went back to the oh hl had a full o hl season and so on so i think especially in the context of uh they have so many guys that they they're not going to be able to see in the fall uh so folks uh for those you aren't aware so the the ncdb a rules have changed so it used to be if you were a shl player that was considered pro and you couldn't play in the chl and then go to the ncdbola because you were considered a pro not anymore they changed that but But it also means that say Cole Regney will be at North Dakota, learning in school, and learning at the gym and learning on ice when the Flamesby going to camp. And so the NCAA won't let you miss school to go to an NHL camp.

That seems like it would fly in the face of whatever amateurish. If the thin veneer of amateur status is already breaking, you break entirely if you let kids go to NHL camps, they're not doing that. So the 10 guys, the flames have going to NHL, going to the NCAA will not be at training camp. It's a lot of guys. And they have a few other guys. Guys, if you're going to the USHL, typically you don't go to NHL camp for the same reason. Europeans, you know, a lot of these guys won't be that kid.

So anyway, this is really their one chance to really have, you know, really intensive one-on-one time with most these guys at all this year. And the rest, you know, between college and Europe and all. these other things, you're really not going to be able to see these guys and get a chance to have, you know, your skating coach sit with them and go over mechanics. You're, you know, having your, your skills consultants go over, you know, shooting mechanics and, you know, ways to get off your point shot a little bit, half a second faster. And that's the, that's the degree of stuff they were doing, that level of detail. And they could do that little of detail, you got so a few guys there. So, that's my preamble of, I'm sorry there wasn't a scrimmage. Yes, we all missed it, but there's

good reasons for no scrimmage. That out of the way, a lot of these guys stood out really positively. If you get a chance to watch some NCAA hockey this year, folks, just watch Cullen Potter skate. It is his mechanics. I think we were talking with Ray Edwards, the Flames Director of Player Development after one of the days,

and he was sort of joking. He was like, he was talking to Daniel Fujita, the Flames, the skating coach, and she was just sort of shrugging, apparently, going, what am I going to teach Colin Potter about skating? Like, he's such a good skater. And, you know, when you're going through the same kind of skating drills, you know, he, he was the kind of guy that sort of got the mechanics of what he needed to do right away.

So she'd go through the, go through a drill and say, here's kind of how you want you to do it. He'd watch it and then try it once and get it right either the first or the second time and then just be able to nail it the rest of the time. Like his, his edge work, his ability to sort of turn on a dime. Like he's just, he's, when, when people say, I think Scott Wheeler over it, over at the athletic put out his as we're recording this, it's Monday. He put out his top 100

NHL affiliate prospects. And the thing he pointed out, I think he had Colin Potter, I think 60th. And he singled out his skating. It basically said he's an exceptional skater or an excellent skater. I forget the exact wording of it.

But everyone you talk to goes, he's small, but God damn, he's a good skater. He's, he's worth going on your way to watch a college hockey game. Even if you do not care about hockey

or college hockey, just to watch him skate. If you like watching guys skate, he's like it's like he was born to put on skates and skate like that well and that's sorry to interrupt but that's sort of the thing that sometimes sinks these smaller players is they just don't have that explosiveness um you know there there have been so many guys who just haven't had that ability to gain that separation that is so important uh when you're that's or the ability like we you know will the late great johnny goddrault was not a big fella but jesus like he his edge work was so nimble

he was yeah the the term that scouts used was elusive like yeah you could not people are like, oh man, at the higher level of hockey, Johnny Goodroo is going to absolutely cream. Someone's going to crush him with the boards. There's going to be like a Johnny Goddrault-sized stain on the boards. And that did not happen because he was so damn good at skating. He could just, you know, just, you know, corner. You could just turn to a corner like that, like turn on a dime.

And somebody would go crashing into the boards, Alex Hemsky style and just, you know, not even know that they were even someone there. So Cullen Potter, I put him up there in sort of that level. of skating and elucidness. And, you know, he was the, I think, the third youngest player in the NCAA last year. And yeah, he looks like a kid. But it's on the ice and he can just move.

So I wanted to single him out. Theo Stoxelius, I think, is going to impress a lot of people if he can keep projecting. We learned from Blames direct of amateur scouting Todd Button on, after the day two of the draft that Stios, Theo Stoxelius had thyroid cancer three years ago. And he went through a couple surgeries. He's got a clean bill of health. He still gets checked out.

But he says he's feeling really good, feeling healthy, feeling strong. And he is big. He's a big guy, 6-3. He's 6-3, I think listed at 196, but he looks like he could put on a little bit of weight. He's going to be playing in Sweden this year. He's going to be trying to push for a spot on Joe Gardens' SHL team. Now that they've been promoted. Now that they've been promoted.

He's going to be, he's not on the summer showcase roster. for Sweden. Sweden was the first team to announce theirs. Finland and Canada have yet to announce theirs the U.S. has. So Sox-Ailius will not be at the U.S.'s USA Hockey Summer Showcase, the World Junior pre- precursor event. But we're going to see Sucsilius at one of these

precursor events. There's typically a few of them that Sweden runs. And he got on to the UA team radar last year with their national team and just they couldn't get them off the team after that. He got his claws in and he press them and they this he was on the team there are out so he's you know he's basically every you know he's big he's really responsible in all three zones and you know he moves so much better than

you'd expect a kid his size you always look at the the big guys you go oh he moved big for a big guy he was he was well for a guy yeah size and considering he's uh one of the youngest players in the draft he was july birthday the cutoff for this year's draft was september 15th so he was uh about you know six weeks away from being eligible for the 26th draft. He's young. He's big. And they still think he's got room to grow physically. Aiden Lane also,

I liked how he looked. But honestly, it's like this is one of those things where no one really ever stands out for, for negative reason at these things. And, you know, if they do, it's usually like really glaring. Yeah.

But like, I think for this one top to bottom, I think this might have been just in terms of like the sheer skill level on display. I think probably. I've been covering Lame's Development Camps as 2011. This might be like the, the murderers row of really impressive guys because pretty much all of them had one or two attributes

you look at and go, who, that's, even the raw guys, like, you know, if we're going to single guys out, you know, your seventh rounders like, you know, Jacob Leander is a seventh rounder. He still looks a little bit raw, but he's young, but even him. Like he's got size.

He moves really well. And you could sort of see him absorb. things as he was being showed things in drills. And the gap between him and the guys ahead of him was not that big to begin with. And I think these kind of events would help him close that gap. So it's, it's a development camp is what it is. It's, it's, it's them. It's an orientation camp.

It's their first time meeting their future coworkers. But, you know, a lot of guys developed some good friendships out of them last year. I think Zane Porek was joking on social media that, you know, the 24 draft class, there's no draft class that's as tight as them. They had a group chat going last year. And Luke Mesa was mentioning that apparently it got kind of funny when the O HL kids had to go head to head because the group chat got a little bit feisty on those days. But, yeah, I mean, you know, if for the flames to get where they want to go, they need to have some of these guys pop. And, you know, I think all due respect to everyone else, same preck is probably at a class of his own. But of the everyone else class, I don't think there's a lot of separation between them and how they're going to get to where they want to go is having these guys have that friendly competition with each other and push each other to be better.

And we've seen a lot of it in the OHL last couple years. And I think we're going to see a lot of it in the NCAA this year. So, yeah, it's a buckle up. It was, yeah, it was kind of the, it was a fun atmosphere to be in. Everyone's in a good mood. The guys who got drafted are pretty excited. Like, I, to be completely blunt, I did interviews where I was like, dude, you just got drafted. Isn't that sweet?

And the answer is, yes, it is sweet. But the idea that we're getting these guys a couple days in some, actually, in some cases, I think it was literally two or three days. After the best day in their lives, these guys have all had their lifelong dreams come true. They got it drafted by an NHL team. And then the real work begins. And I think these guys are like, okay, almost to a man. They were sweet. This is awesome.

I still need to put in some work to get ready to go. Let's do this. Yeah. We're going to tee up how the 25 class affects our top 20, our top 20s individually. And then, of course, we have our own Flames Nation ranking that are going to go live as the summer progresses here. Sort of our go-to standby to get us through August over at Flames Nation pretty much. But and also, Pike, you teed up briefly the summer series. And the summer showcase.

The summer showcase, right. how this is going to play out because we kind of have an idea of what Canada's lineup is going to be like or at least what their roster is going to look like. Scott Wheeler has been sort of tweeting out some hints as to who he's been hearing from. We should also mention as well, of course, you talk about Cullen Potter being super fast. The only thing faster is a brand new 2025 Mitsubishi Outlander PHV over from our good folks and friends over at Platinum Mitsubishi. The Outlander PHVEV propelled by a 2.4 liter gas engine and a pair of electric motors that combined give it over 300 horsepower, one of the most powerful seven seat SUVs in the class.

And until the end of July, the good folks at Mitsubishi Canada are giving $5,000 off the sticker price on any Outlander PHEV, making up for that rebate that went away a few months ago. So head on up to 2720 Barlow Trail Northeast and go check out one of those Outlander PHEVs because just like Cullen Potter, it's got some real motors. So, and the other thing I want to mention about Colin Potter is, you know, he's sort of following in the footsteps of the Hughes brothers. I mean, something about having an all-star American women's hockey player star as your mom just teaches you a lot from a young age, doesn't it? So I was working on a piece on Colin Potter after talking about that. So here's the crazy thing.

So everyone, everyone thinks their mom is the best. And yeah, we're all of our moms are the best. No one's saying your mom is not the best. Everyone wants it. this, your mom is the best. But his mom has four Olympic medals. His mom meddled at 10 world championships. Here's the crazy thing. So Cullen Potter, he has an older sister. His sister is born in January of 2001. Four months later, or three months later in the state of hockey, Minnesota, three months after his older sister was born, his mom won a silver medal, actually gold medal

at the world championships. And then after Cullen was born, also in January, three months later, His mom won a silver or bronze medal. I forget what medal was, but she meddled at another world championship. So a lot of people, after you create human life, you're like, okay, I'm going to take a few months off just to, it's a major event in the human life. Maybe you just take a, take the spring off. Just, just hang out. She was playing the world championship a few months late. Like, that's, that's a level of commitment to being great at what you do that is astounding to me and impressive to me.

And just having having access to that as both an athlete and as a child, just sort of like being able to try to emulate that level of commitment to being great at what you do. And like, even his dad is your dad is, you know, the lesser of the two athletes. He still played at NCAA Division I. He's still a high level coach. They run camps together. Like it's, and they have for a while. So like we talk about like the, the, the Chuck brothers having the, you know, the built in advantage.

and their sister who's apparently very, very good lacrosse player. Yeah. We talk about them having the advantage. Oh, my God. Like, your mom is one of the greatest women's players of all time. She should probably be in the U.S. Hockey Hall of Fame. Like, she's not, and she probably should be. There's a lot of people who should.

There's a lot. There's a lot of women. The women's side of the U.S. and overall hockey hall of fame is kind of lean. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah, when you were talking about 14 international medals, that's, that's, that's, that's I mean, he only has two, so he's got to catch up.

Well, I knew that his mom was a hockey star. I didn't realize that she played at Vancouver 2010, which makes me feel pretty old. I remember Vancouver 2010 very well. I watched pretty much all those games. And now, of course, the son of one of the players is now a Flames pick. It's pretty crazy. Yeah. So we're going to talk a little about the World Juniors, because it's obviously way too early.

The World Juniors aren't until December and they aren't until Boxing Day. but the work is already starting and the flames right now last year they were brutally up underrepresented at the world juniors in a year where they probably should have had more people there and the fact that they didn't have more people there probably big reason why Canada didn't do anything

in the world juniors and this year Canada is going to look very different for one they're not going to have Dave Cameron as their head coach which is probably for the best they're going back to the old well they're bringing back the hunters to lead things Dale Hunter will be behind the bench

and it will be we expect Zane Perak playing a starring role for team Canada we expect I don't know man You don't you don't know You think the flames are going to be able to lose him I think they'll be a couple weeks ago

I think I think it depends I think I don't think so I think it depends If he's if he's one of their six best defensemen I don't know if he goes I think maybe they leave it up to him but I if he's if he's playing if he is what they hope he can be at this level,

I don't know if he's made available. That's a debate we can have if it comes down to it. But I don't know. Like if you're if you're him, wouldn't you rather be in the show trying to, trying to get a calder? If they leave it up to him, I think he goes. I, I, if I was, but I'm not.

But if I was him and after last, I would, I just would want that opportunity. prove myself and what would be my last chance to do it. But this also be kind of a weird year because like this is historically, historically, folks, the US national development program is the big feeder for the American national junior team. And so if you go up and down, it's a lot of college kids. It's a lot of maybe guys like Matthew Chuk that went up through the national development program and then may john it over the OHL for a year because there's a big opportunity for them to get big ice time rather than sort of being, you know, more of a colleague in the mission. in a big college program.

And the Canadian system also historically underrepresented in the NCAA, overrepresented in the CHL, as you'd expect, because that's how the program of excellence works. It leans heavily on guys who are made available by CHL teams. Big time. And I think this year is going to be weird because a lot of the best players available are going to be playing the NCAA. There's going to be a lot of old habits that die hard from the standpoint of hockey. Canada. It is going to be, because it is, it is not conjecture. In the past, there has definitely been

precedence that has been granted to players who, who go through the right pathway, or at least as so it has been perceived. And now there is no real right pathway. Everybody has their own idea of what the right pathway is for each individual player. And that's a good thing. What we do have an idea of is that there are three flames prospects who, we believe, have been invited to the summer showcase. It's not officially yet, but by all, indications we're going to see Zane Porek, Cole Rushney, and Henry Mews at the summer

showcase. Not expected to be there as Jacob Attaglia, which after a 40-goal season in the OHL, I don't know, but there's a lot of wingers who play for junior clubs, who are Canadian, who have a lot of attributes going their way. It's tough to make space.

The gentleman you mentioned are rumored to be going to Canada's camp, Cullen Potter, the other first round pick the Flames made is has been named to the, uh, the USA hockey roster for the USA hockey summer showcase, uh, Colin Potter, who was, uh, I believe at the, uh, he was, correct me wrong, he was at the, uh, world under 17s, the Kalinka's and the world under 18. Yeah. He went head to head, head to head with future college opponent and Flames teammate, Cole

Regney at the U.S. at the World Under 18s. He did quite well. Potter did quite well at the U18s. That was, I mean, there was a lot said, including by myself, about the peculiarity of Potter's path that he has taken, going to ASU, which is historically not produced a whole lot of NHLers, but not a whole lot of history.

This is Joey DeCore and Eurasia. It is Joey DeCorderation. It's Josh Donor-Rashor, but still, I mean, it's still a relatively new program, albeit rapidly improving under a very good, very good coach down there in Arizona. But also, you know, just strange production, like didn't get a whole lot of luck with secondary assists.

Like it was just kind of an unusual situation. But then you go to the World Junior 18s, and that is a better predictor, especially for guys going to their draft year, eight points in seven games for Colin Potter. The other thing that's kind of strange, though, is at least when I remember it, the Holinko is never a very good predictor.

for the states because they sometimes didn't send their A team there in some years. And, but it just goes to show the stock that Potter has and the extent to which it is grown. It's, it's, I love the Flinka. And I will never say a bad thing about it is a tournament. I think it's an interesting event. It's a data point. But you're also much like it's the development camp of international tournaments in that it's really early. A lot of guys are still getting, getting their engines.

warmed up after a summer of training. And, you know, I think the fact that European, the European teams tend to get going a little bit earlier, I think gives them sort of an inherent advantage, whereas, you know, if the North American teams, because they tend to get going a little bit later is a little bit tougher, I think, with them. But, you know, I think it's the data point. But the U-18s is a chance for you to put a bow on a season. Potter, I think, especially going from being.

the third youngest guy, the entire NCAA, and still like, what, 22 points in 35 games, something like that. He was good, not amazing, very good, consistently very good. And the NCAA is a 17-year-old, going on an 18-year-old. And then he goes to play within his peer group. Everyone goes, oh, okay. So he's not playing as 23-year-olds. This is how he would possibly look if he was playing against his peer group the whole year.

But even, you know, he told us when we spoke with him both on draft night and at Depp Camp, that's kind of why he went to the. NCAA. He could have stayed in the national development program, the U18 team and just racked all some crappy teams all season and had really impressive counting stats. And people would be like, ooh, look at his numbers. Instead, he went to a program where he's probably over his skis for at least a third of the year. But that was by design. And I think he would probably say, actually, he did tell us that he thought it helped him quite a bit. And so we're going to see him A, in July, with his peer group, trying to get on the national junior team, and be in a sophomore year for a college program where people will go, okay, can Colin Potter carry the mail this year?

Can he be the guy on a college program that would very much like to be a program year of note this year? Yeah, and with ASU, I mean, it is a program that is now affiliated with a conference. They are- The NCHC. Yeah, they're actually, you know, building a little bit of a reputation, finally. You know, they played their first five, six years as a D1 school, as an unaffiliated school. And they made the NCAA national tournament as an independent, which almost never happens. Almost never happens.

So, yeah, it's, it's definitely something. And we're excited to see what he can do. I think most folks expect Potter to make the team. It's, you know, he's, I don't think he's a lock to play top six minutes or anything. but I think most folks expect him to be there. But it's going to be interesting for sure. He's expected to be probably the only Flames rep for Team USA if he makes it. There's not a whole lot of other candidates with no disrespect intended to Maseo Phillips.

Macyo. Macyo. But yeah. And then the other guys who were eligible, I mean, we're looking at the Canadians and we're looking at Theo Stoxilius pretty much. And that's basically it. in terms of guys who have realistic chances. Cole Roshney is going to be an interesting one.

Of course, there isn't going to be the element of him having to leave the flames. So should have the opportunity. Did see somebody in the chat earlier saying that the only downside of the flames picking Roshney was that he was going to the NCAA. I feel the opposite about that. I think him going to the NCAA is a great thing. He should be a key component from that UND team. For all you nerds out there, November 14th and 15th, North Dakota versus Arizona State,

the first NCAA clash between the flames first rounders. That'll be a fun. That'll be a fun couple of days. Yeah, yeah, very much so. And so, yeah, like, I mean, you mentioned that opening, that opening matchup. It's going to be, it's going to be, the matchups that we're going to see all season long in the NCAA are going to be incredible.

Oh, yeah, the opening weekend of October, yeah, the weekend before the NHL season starts, the NHL season starts October 7th. The schedule will be out on Wednesday so you can plan your flames lives. But October 3rd and 4th, Gavin McKenna and the Penn State Nintling Lions are going to be facing Arizona State. And so it's Luke Mesa and Jackson Smith and Gavin McKenna versus Cullen Potter and Justin Kipke. Justin, Victoria Royals captain. Pretty good recruit. So it's going to be, we're going to have the Victoria Royal Oil's leading score facing his former captain in his first game.

And they'll be, they'll face each other later on. But yeah, it's it's going to be, we're looking at this earlier on. They're probably going to have a fairly interesting flames versus flames matchup pretty much every weekend of the college calendar. Yeah. And that sounds very fun. And I'm excited for it. Yeah. It's going to be a pain to keep track of all these streaming services I have to get.

but it's going to be very fun to watch. Yeah, the number one thing that I said after Potter was drafted was that I hope ASU gives him some help, just because, you know, their recruits have been okay. They've gotten some decent recruits over the years, but they need some true top line guys. And I think Kipke is actually an underrated recruit for them. He should be maybe, you know,

top pairing defense been for them this coming season, even as a freshman. Yeah, so we're talking, yeah. I mean, Parek is going to obviously drive a lot of the discussion. throughout the season. We mentioned, of course, Scott Wheeler's rankings, which came out earlier today, which have Perrek as the number four prospect in hockey. The number two defensemen outside of first overall pick, Matthew Schaefer. Yes, even after a year in which he was, what, the number five defensemen selected.

Is that correct? In 2024, it was Lev Shunov, and then there was Yakum Chuck and, am I missing? If there was, well, Schaefer went out. Sorry, Dickinson went after. If you get a chance. to go to you don't have to subscribe the athletic i think you're missing out just my cheap plug for the athletic uh they do a lot of good things over there uh flame lack of flame coverage not withstanding that's not that's not that's not anyone individual person's fault it's just how things

work out but uh i really like scott wheeler's proffer's proffer's proffer's proffer's because they look at things completely different they're good yin and yang uh but just if go to the go to the go to the bio and just read the level of praise that Wheeler has for Preck because he gets into sort of like a lot of the things that Precht as well. Some perceived criticisms of Prex game. It's really detailed and, you know, I'm not going to do it justice by trying to recount it off the top of my head. So just go if you have a subscription, go there and read it because it's really good. And if you're someone on the fence as a flames fan going, I don't know, I mean, like Ron and Dustin Wolf last year, Dustin Wolf cost him a top 10 pick. Zane Perak could potentially be that level of impactful.

I mean, he's not quite steal, however many games, Dustin Wolf stole last year. But if Perak can keep progressing and he's driven, he's probably as driven as Jenny Potter was throughout her illustrious career. How is that for a callback? There you go. But, like, yeah, he's the types of players that get to that level and stay at that level and are driven enough to. to finish school early and then have back-to-back 30 goal seasons. And what the first, the O HL defenseman with over 100 points in over a decade,

the first Ontario junior major junior defensemen since Bobby. When it was technically a different league. Ontario Hockey Association. Yeah, he's, I'm fascinated how it's going to turn out. I don't know how it's going to turn out. You might have some long nights,

but oh boy, like, again, that's what, If you're saying to me, oh, I think you might be at the world jingers. My answer might be, if the Flames have designs of being a playoff team, having an extra week or two of same preck on your team, if he's what they think he could be, could be the difference between making or not. So for them, they might go, may we keep them?

Well, we've talked plenty about the new memorandum of understanding, especially over at Flames Nation. And it is kind of a shame that it's not taking effect until the season after this coming one, because Perak, you know, he's the kind of player who could benefit tremendously from spending a season in the American Hockey League, if necessary. But by the same token, I think he has all the tools to succeed right away in the NHL, too. And so I am still of the mindset that even with Perak in the fold, I don't know if the flames are going to be as competitive to justify, you know, withholding that if it is even, you know, assuming that it is something that he wants to do, which I, I, I, I personally would assume that he does.

But nevertheless, we don't know. We're, we're firmly into the, into the wilderness of conjecture here. We haven't really done a whole lot of just overview discussion of the Flames 2025 draft class, though. And, and, and, yeah, because you guys only did one day. Yeah, I know.

Some of us were in the trenches doing multiple days. You were trying to figure out how to spell Jan Mike Faco's name. And, and Wittenbach. And we're going to put up now, yeah, yeah, we're going to put up a little section from Stephen Ellis, his draft grades because he was quite complimentary. He had the New York Islanders, of course, as you would expect at number one with an A-plus grade, and hard to fault him for that with them getting Schaefer,

and then Victor Eklund and Cajson and Danil Prokerov. But he didn't have the flames much lower. He had them rank number six for what they pulled off on days one and two in Los Angeles within A-minus grade. And he had a lot of good things to say. Cole Reshney, Cullen Potter, Theo Stoxilius, Macio Phillips, Ethan Wittenback, Aidan Lane, Jacob Leander, and Jan Metvico. I think I said them all in order, didn't I?

Did I miss anybody? I think I got them. I think I got them all. Eight players. The Flames picked 10 last year. They picked eight this year. They've got, what, another eight lined up for next year. They are firmly in the midst of one of the more transformative,

of periods for their development pool in the last, well, in the history of the franchise, truly. And three consecutive years of multiple first round picks. After having done so only once before in 2013. So it's, it is certainly, it is certainly a different approach. I think there are a lot of different perspectives that I respect when it comes to, you know, how the flames are approaching this. I think they have done a very good job of accumulating depth for their organization. I think they've done a good job of accumulating guys who I think can be very good

NHL players, maybe top six NHL players for forwards and top four NHL defensemen. I don't know if I still see the true elite guys, per rec aside, but they've done a good job with what they've had is my takeaway. And I thought the same for the 2025 class. I get the justification for why they took the guys that they took. Even Macio Phillips, who is the guy who some people were a little bit more down on after, you know, looking at his numbers. The only guys that don't have strong counting stats for Jacob Leander and Macy O' Phillips, and both of them, you know, if, and we talked to Craig Conroy about this on, on, after day two of the draft, just the idea that, okay, you have, you have, what, Zane Perak, who is six foot, 180, 190 something.

Yeah, so you got Henry Mews, six foot, 180 something. You got 100,000 something. You got 1007 something. And then, okay, you got, you got three really, really promising puck moving guys. who, you know, they'll need some time and space to operate. And then you have just an absolute wrecking ball of a human being. He's such a nice kid too. But just on the ice, such a, just a destructive human being in Macio Phillips.

And you look at him and go, okay, you might, you might, I think the criticism of, yeah, you probably could have gotten some with better counting stats. Okay, sure. I think their justification is they, they see some complementarities. It's like, okay, if you had, if you had, if you had 20 guys Johnny Gros size, your team wouldn't work. If you had 20 guys Johnny Gros size and then one or two guys like say, you have a Michael Furlin to open up some space.

I think they see how it has worked for some smaller puck moving guys in their system in their organization and in the NHL in general of the last few years and go, okay, Phillips is a guy who can and has played with those high-end guys in his career so far. And he's shown some promise. And okay, yeah. It's if you're if you're, you're, you're definitely rolling the dice on him, continuing to improve his skating. You're rolling the dice on him, continuing to improve his play with the puck. The big criticism of him was, you know, he was kind of a non-entity offensively because he was so focused on physical and defensive play that that part of this game is just really underdeveloped.

Okay. Yeah. Maybe he'll, he's going to college in a year. So that seems like a good place for him to try to, to develop it a bit. But of the of the guys they have, I mean, if you look at everyone else, they got what, of eight players, the Russian guy, Matt Vicko was, I think just over half a point per game in the MHL, everyone else outside of Leander was over a point per game. In their respective leagues.

They, Aid Lane played as a point per game player in March and April in the Ontario Hockey League when everyone else had played the whole year in the OHL and we're revving up for the playoffs and here's this kid coming in from prep school and was a point for game player yeah and they got him in the sixth round true because they didn't have a big sample size of him in that level and the flame saw him and went okay that's good uh it's whiteenbach just the idea that again point per game player won the the the control award yeah in that league so okay yeah like just the idea that okay we we look at the 24 draft class and i think rightfully so is potentially one of the more transformative draft classes if it keeps panning out a uh a you

year on, it looks very promising and pretty much everyone across the board took a step forward. A home run of a draft class, I'd say. This one at worst seems like a solid double, maybe a triple, because, you know, you got two first rounders. You needed centers. You got two really good centers. Second round, you get just a guy, a gigantic center who is completely different than two guys you took ahead of him. And so you have some complementarity there. Then you'd pick just a gigantic defenseman, and then you go back to, okay, we got some size, let's go for some skill in the wings.

And so they got so many different types of players that I think we, you and I've talked about this in the past. And, you know, Kent and I have talked about this for literally decades because we're old as hell. Love you, Kent, but we're old now. The idea that, you know, the big criticism of the Daryl Sutter era was the NHL team was good, but it was basically, I think, I'm going to steal a phrase from Bradger Living. You're Robin Pier to pay Paul because every year, there's like 12 years in a row with the flames did not have their own second round pick. Every year in a row, they're like, okay, we need a third line guy.

Yeah, they went from the second rounder. They took Tim Ramholt and then they just opted out after that. Yeah. But and you're loading up with a lot of guys that you think, okay, you know, we need someone to plays like Brett Ward. Let's get Matt Pellage. Okay, we need, we need this. A lot of stocking up of the same type of person, the same type of player,

the guys over six foot one who can play right now if we need Yeah, got high, high ceiling low floor guys who all kind of look the same. It's sort of like, you know, that's Spider-Man meme of the guy,

the Spider-Man all pointed to each other. That's basically the flames drafting under Gerald Sutter for better or for worse. And I think as a result, poor, poor Jay Feaster and herriad a firm system that was basically in shambles. It was awful.

And then they started to build it back up. Brad for living, I think, because the drafting was good, you were able to sort of use your early picks here and there to sort of backfill the NHL roster a bit. And we can debate for a while whether or not that panned out the way they wanted to. We didn't have any parade series. You can make an argument that it didn't.

But you can kind of see the shape of what they were trying to do. But then you kind of look at what the flames are doing now and you go, oh, okay, because under Trit, under Tril Living, they had a bunch of different types of guys. and if the game changes, you want to be able to adapt. So if you need, if the game moves towards speed, you got some small guys who can move the puck and are skilled. If it moves a bit towards bigger guys, you got some bigger guys in the system throughout the system.

On blue, like pretty much up and down the reserve list, you have guys that can play a bunch of different styles of hockey. And so as a result, if anything changes in the style of the game is played, you're not going to be completely lost in the dust. I think this was year two of them really digging into what they didn't have and what they needed. They basically got everything but a goalie. And you can make an argument that goalie is probably the thing they needed the least. Yeah, they don't need goalies.

They have, I mean. But next year, whoops all goalies. I want eight goalies. Just have them have their own their own session at development camp, just the goalies. Just the entire ice sheets. See the Seattle every year they do that the pickup game where all the goalies play. That's going to be to have camp next year. I'm going to call the shot.

Flames are going to pick eight goalies next year. Heck, they might trade down and get more picks to take 12 goals. Well, that's the thing. I mean, they are pretty well set up in net. I mean, Dustin Wolf aside, people like Caril Zaruban. People like Arceni Sargayev, people like. Owen, say, had a really year in college. We're hardly talking about him.

No, yeah. Arsenio Zergaia dragged Penn State. To the Frozen Four. To the Frozen Four. He came back from an injury on January 3rd, and then from January 3rd until he lost a BU in that heartbreaking game. I don't think there was a better goaltender in college hockey than our Sandy Sargai.

And the flames are deep enough of a goaltender. They're probably not thinking about it. Yeah, people are like, who cares? But that's the thing. If Arsani Sargayev isn't there, does Gavin McKenna end up going to Penn State? Does he like CEO? I think he saw all the fun. It's a frozen 14.

I think he saw Sirgayev, bear hugging his coach when they, when they qualify for the frozen format, that's where I'm going. I see that Russian goalie having the time of his life and I want to go there. I want to follow in his footsteps. It's the house that's the Shagaya film. That's, that's right. That's right. Penn State, known for hockey more than football these days.

We're talking about our top 20 as well because this is, again, a constant through line through our summer season here at Flames Nation. I mean, even more so than development camp. Development camp's three days long. This last week's first development camp I went to was 2016. So that was a good one. That was the Matthew Kuchuk development camp. That was the only one he went to. But Pike, I want to ask you, we did prior to the draft, we did our own sort of top 10 show.

We had Pinderon. He gave us his top 10. Bader gave us his top 10. We both had our own top 10s. And I want to ask you, how many new draftees have entered your top 10, your own personal top 10? Oh, my top 10. Since the 2025 draft. Two.

Two. And I would imagine they're Reschney and Potter. Yes. But my question is, where do you have Reshny? I have Reshny at two. I have Potter at six. Wow. You are higher on both of them than I am, but that's no disrespect to either player.

I think Hunter Bristavich has got a little bit on on Reshny for me. But I'm weird. I get the defenseman all group tie. I've got like six defensemen of my top 10. We won't spoil too much, but just to tease, there are four members of the 25 draft class that cracked our top 20. and the I'll everyone had the same top player

I don't I think you can guess I'm not going to tell you but you can guess you'll find out in August you'll you'll get but you're going to guess you're going to guess correctly and then the fun thing was we debated this too of it off air

this was the toughest year I think for me personally we I mentioned the how star studded and how it's full of skill dev camp was I had such a tough time doing my top 20. I looked at my top 20. I looked at guys. I didn't have my top 20. I went, oh God, I left him off. How did I leave him off? Yeah. I love that player.

I would say like there's probably three guys, three or four guys. I agonized over leaving off, but there's just too many guys right now. Yeah, there is especially after the draft. Pre-draft, I mean, I think it would have been pretty easy to make a top 20. I think I would have basically had a top 17 and then thrown a couple darts of the board and then now it's now it's a little bit trickier for sure. Especially, I mean, you add Carter King and is a good UFA from Denver. You add the eight players who they selected. They've, they've done

well. And, you know, we have put together our top 20. We're not going to reveal it just yet. We have a panel of folks. You put in your top 20. I put in my top 20. We got about a half dozen contributors at the site, other contributors at the site. Pinder put in

his own top 20, which is very similar to that. I think we had nine contributors including Pender this year. Yeah. So, So it's definitely a group effort. And the lists are quite, they're quite discreet from each other. They are, there are, there are, there are disparities. There are guys who are not in the top 20 this year who have been in our top five before. And they've just, you know, been pushed down for whatever reason, to the point where, you know, they're very much in make or break territory.

And by the same token, there are guys who are in our top 10 who have sort of come out of nowhere. and one of my favorite players to watch in the system and we'll talk about him later on the summer what my favorite role players in the system wasn't on my top 20 I know he wasn't on my top 20 because I was like oh where do I put it we could not make it through one of these shows without Pike bringing up Lucas Siona

it's it's not possible to do Pike Pike yeah there's like three three or four again three or four guys in the system I go oh he's really good he could play. I can't. Where does he fit in my top 20? No, it's tough.

I mean, that's the thing. I mean, the other aspect of it is that it's the natural progression. Right now, post draft, this is the time where the system is naturally going to be at its most stocked. Once we get into training camp,

the inevitable is going to happen. The system is going to be depleted a little bit. Guys are going to get hurt. Guys are going to get traded. Guys are going to get lost on waivers. And there are, I would imagine, might be a couple guys who get lost on waivers this year.

Everybody's going to talk about Jeremy Porre, who is now waivers eligible. And there are teams. in the league that could probably use a left shot defenseman, especially in training camp when guys start to get hurt. And so, yeah, I think this is the second time we've had a consensus number one, or at least the second consecutive year we have, I believe. Although last year was a little bit tricky because it was Perrek versus Wolf.

Wolf was still technically a prospect for our purposes, but I believe Perak ended up beating him out. You're eligible for a list until you are. no longer eligible for the calder and Dustin Wolf finished second for the calder so he's eligible he's used up. Dustin Wolf and I have a feeling this was probably going to be Zane for X last year on the list. Dustin Wolf, one of the few players to

go down from number one and but stay on the list and arguably he maybe shouldn't have. Because I have the spreadsheet in front of me Dustin Wolf his draft here he was 14th in our list he was behind a lot

of guys. He was 14th. He was 14th in our list. The next year after he was the Western League goalie of the year for the first time, he jumped up to fifth. Then he was Western League of the year. Again, he jumped up to fourth. Then he was the AHA goalie of the year. Then we finally took mercy and I went, okay, Dustin, you can be number one.

And then he was number one back to back. Then Zane Perak bumped him down to second. And then he finished second for the Calder. So that's what a wild few years for him. But I guess it was to show you. I mean, you know, to, a certain extent you got to judge guys based on what they've done and what you think they're going to do and their ceiling. But it's, if you're, if you're a late round pick, look at how

Dustin Wolfe has kept building up his, his, uh, cachet in the organization and league wide and go, okay, that's, that's the way you want to do it. I, you know what, Pike, I was wrong. Last year, Perek was our consensus number one. Every single one of us had Perek at one. And I don't know. It's, it's a tough one. Even looking today, I mean, if you're, if you're going to, you're, change it from a prospect rankings to a U-25 rankings. Who do you have at number one? I mean, that's,

that's a very much a bird in the hand versus a burden the bush type thing. I mean, Perak is, is that good. Wolf was just nominated for the Calder Trophy. Finalist, do you nominate? Oh,

who cares? Nomenclature. This is why, this is why we do. We do. This is, uh, if you can't do you 25,

though, where does Coronado fit in that? And not, he'd be number three for me. I don't know. And I love Maddie Coronado, but he'd be number three for me. Just because I don't think he's a top line player at his best. I think he's a very good player, but I don't think he quite crosses that threshold.

Maybe he does. I don't think we've seen the best of them yet. We haven't. I don't think we have. But even if he takes a step to being a 60 point guy, is that a top line forward? I don't know. For six five, six five for a thousand years. It's a great contract, but is he a number one winger on a team?

I mean, he's going to play in the top line, probably. But is he a true number one winger? Or is he? There's a probable chance to lead the team in goal scoring this year. But but leading the flames and goal scoring is that the same as being a number one winger in the NHL? That's, I mean,

that's the flames are a team in the NHL. They are leading the team in scoring. It's like saying, it's not some cadre, a true number one center. He's number one center on a team of the NHL. Nick Fugstadt led the Panthers and points one year. Yeah.

I mean, it's, you got to, I don't know, it's a conversation that we'll be sure to have for a long, long time. And I think the world will, the world of the world of Matt Coronado,

but I think the wordal of Matt Coronado. I think the ordle of Matt Coronado. Today's word is bison. It's five letters long. Yeah, no, it's going to be a conversation that we're going to have for a long time. And with Cole Reschnie coming in, I mean, that's the thing. We talk about Wheeler's List. At Wheeler's List, he is number 41.

The flames have one guy in the top 40, but then they have the guy at 41 and they have the guy at 60. And it is a conversation that, again, we're going to continue to have. And a lot of it is going to be based on what Rushney does. does this year. And this goes back to the comment that I saw earlier about the NCAA not being the good thing for Reschney. I completely disagree because I think there is a huge indicator that we're about to either see come to fruition or not happen, which is, does Reschney maintain his position as a number one center from Victoria into college? Or does he slip down the ranks? Does he play like a Colin

Potter? He's a number two center at ASU or was last year. That's what the NCAA affords these players, is the ability to, you know, not necessarily take a step forward, but to maintain that what they have already done in the higher ranks. And that's, that's really what we're waiting to see with Rushney. That's, that is going to be the true calling card for him to see if he is a center as a pro, see if he is a center in the NHL. Well, the next closest thing right now, even more so, I would say, close to the HAL and CAA hockey.

It's getting better and better and better. And I think, I don't think it's going to be long before. it is the developmental pathway that you're just whipping out bad opinions left and right oh the hl is the second best league in the world i think the nc w a ncv a is i nc w a is really seven different different leagues with furious various it is it is you have to be you have to be in the exact right pathway but by the same token there is so much variance in the a hl right now i mean i if i'm if i'm a pro coming up i don't want to play for the san jane ozabaricuda i don't want to play for the for the, for the,

the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, know, there, there's some organizations that are, you know, very much halves and have-navots in that league, too. Isn't it the Utica devils now? I think it's Binghamton. I don't think so. I think so.

Do they not? No, I don't think so. Yeah, well, in any of it, that, that, that, or, no, I mean, you know what I'm thinking of, um, I'm thinking of, former ice hockey team, they, uh, folded into, yeah, okay, I'm thinking of the bridgeport Islanders. That's Chris Lamarillo. Did you, did you ever hear that stat? Chris Lamarillo has been an AHL GM for 20.

I'm still mad that they changed the greatest dumb AHL name in history. The Bridgeport Sound Tigers. Yeah, the Sound Tigers. Okay, I was always really confused. So Bridgeport,

Bridgeport Sound is a geographic area. Yeah, it's like Owen Sound. It's like Owen Sound. So it's like, so it's like, so it's like, say Tampa is a city in Tampa Bay, a region.

So I always thought, were they saying it was the Bridgeport? town or the Bridgeport region, Tigers, or was it the city of Bridgeport had a team nicknamed the Sound Tigers. That's what I always thought. The Tigers made of sound. The Tigers made of Sound. And so I always loved the team because it always made me have that weird thought experiment

about can tigers be made us? That's such a badass. Now they're just now they're just down. I like that more than Solar Bears. Solar bears is cool, but it's a polar bear wearing sunglasses. It's forcing it. Sound Tigers is organic. That just came out of, you know.

Yeah, I don't know. They had, I love the AA. because it's unabashedly weird in ways that sports should be weird. The NHL at times can get too serious and stuffy. And I love the fact that we got the AHA willing to do weird, wacky stuff. They have so many fun, weird theme games. I'm super excited for the season. I'm kind of cranky that the Wranglers will be on the road for two months between November and mid-January.

They go two months within home games and I love it because it's so weird. If only we get somebody who we could talk to a little bit more about the Wranglers. And we'll just leave it at that. We'll find time. We'll leave it at that. Check back later this month. Pike, do you have really anything else to add? We're getting close to an hour here.

I mean, there's, I would ask the chat for questions, but there's been a couple of unruly folks. Overall, overall. I've waxed poetic about what I thought the flames draft. Spoiler, I thought they did good. What was your, if you want to give the flames the later grade for the 25 draft class? I'd give them a solid, I'd give them a solid B plus. It's, it's sort of, I think they did well.

My expectations were very high after what they did last year, where I thought they earned a very solid A bordering on an A plus. This year I thought they did well. I think they, they came away with what they intended to do. I think the only way that I would have been higher on it is if they had, and they have little control over it, but if they had found the right package for Rasmus and if they had been able to maybe move up a little bit, but I think you can't be upset with the hall that they came away with considering that they stayed at 18 and 32. And somebody made an interesting point to me

recently, which was that I think for all the belly aching that we did all season long about the flames losing their first round pick to Montreal, which was then flipped to the islanders. And then also for their first round pick from Florida getting worse and worse and worse as the playoffs progressed, I think there's a very good case to be made that they got the players they would have taken anyway. If they had kept pick 16 instead of getting pick 18, and if they had say, if the Panthers had gone out early and they had picked 22 instead of 32, I think they would have gotten the exact same two players. Yeah, because they, I mean, they liked Rushney. They were very, very, very high on Rushney. I would almost say they loved Rushney. Yeah, like,

I think, I don't know if Rushney was a top 10 guy on their board, but I would not be surprised if he was closer to that than where he went. He, I think for them, he was probably a guy who slid a little bit. And for Potter, we know they wanted to trade up to get him. They made, they made numerous overtures toward trying to move up because they didn't think he was going to be there at 32 and he was. So I think from my standpoint, they got the two guys they would have taken. My only qualm with it, with with the flames at this point is I think there is, there

is more room in their system for more like i think they could stand try and concentrate their picks a little bit higher in the draft they came away with eight picks i would love to see them make you know multiple first and multiple seconds but that's harder to do than maybe it sounds like it's it's there are you know granted they you're more mad about the things they didn't do than things they did i think there was potential for them to do more but i going practically purely on what they did there's very little to complain about very little okay good I think they did fine. Should we do your questions?

Yeah, I mean, I think there's been one guy causing some, some, some real, some real, uh, consternation among our, our, our, our, our, our, our watchers, but is it Jack, uh, no, yes, Jack is, um, you had any soup recently? No, no, no soup. I've been sick. You've been gone, you haven't been sick. I'm not gone wood. I'm sick of the weather today. I, um, being an ass in the chat.

Yeah. I don't know. There's, there's been a, I, I, I, uh, yeah, we don't need to be calling. players garbage in the chat so uh but hey uh pike you seen one of these see what i got jack give me a see see what i got not a sponsor but i got a shooter magavan cup today that for me that's my stanley cup of the summer i got a shooter mcgavan cup in the absence of questions you know he's a bad guy in that movie right so what he's great maybe i don't know what it's a shooter macabvin love is arizona coyotes love mike you're just making it hard

to like you. Shooter. He's, he's shooter. And that's what the flames have. They got some good shooters in their system. They got some speedsters. They got all sorts of different versatility up and down their prospect pool. The same versatility that you see over at Platinum Mitsubishi with their lineup of new vehicle offerings. There are 2025 models from the outlander pH EV to the eclipse cross with its super all wheel control. Perfect for the horrible rainy day is like the one we have endured through today. It has been just a dreadful day out there, folks. but you'll want to get into the Eclipse Cross because not only does it have heated front seats in its GT top of the line model, it's got heated rear seats. And there's nothing better on a 12 degree Celsius July weekday than getting into the backseat of an Eclipse cross

and just feeling that just evaporate right off your back. So head on up to Platy Mitsubishi 2720 Barlow Trail Northeast and who knows, maybe you'll see, maybe you'll see Flames prospect up there. But we've had, I've seen some celebrities up there. We had,

we had Riker Evans coming a couple weeks ago, looking, I shouldn't, you know, there's lots of NHL players around. Very nice guy. Very nice guy. So who knows?

Maybe you'll go up there and you'll see, Ryan Pinder, or Dean Boomer Mulberg or our buddy Ryan, but you've, you've been there. I have. You have, you had a hamburger.

I saw Pender there. You did. See? See? Go to Platinum. You'll never know. what you'll find up there. At the very least,

you'll find a new outlander. Do we have anything in the chat, or are we just, are we just going to raw? I did start a couple questions. Let's do it. Let's, let's,

let's, let's put it up there, Jack. Nothing litigious. Nothing litigious. Oh, this one that Pike's going to love. Vum Zulaman. I don't know if I'm saying. Boom Zuliman.

Vum Zulam. Vum Zalam. Is Axel Hurtig any good? Got to love his work ethic. That second part isn't a question. It's a statement, but we got to, agree. Pike, the first part, is Axel Hurtig any good? Yes.

Axel Hurtig, uh, probably not destined to be a, uh, power play quarterback anytime soon, but the, uh, he got really very positive views from the folks and, uh, with the hitman list past year. Uh, he went from, uh, playing in Sweden to playing a lot in a really tough shutdown role for the hitman. And he was very, very good. Uh, all indications are he's going be heading back to the hitman as a two spotter this year he's no five so he'd be both an overager and an import but this year they're expanding to three imports for every team so it helps a lot it helps a lot and he's you know it's going to be a pretty young defensive group they lost a lot of a lot of key bodies to to college and to graduation to the pros so he's going to be

potentially a very important player of them and we'll see if he can grow a bit more offensively but the defensive side of his game really translated very quickly to the small ice. And if he can keep filling out and maybe add a bit of nastiness to his game, the big criticism I've heard of him from Scouts is he uses positioning and size pretty well, but he just needs to be able to put somebody through the boards like they stole his lunch money. And he's not quite there yet, but he just a little bit of snarl to his game could really elevate him a bit. But yeah, there's a lot of folks in the flames are big fans of him right now. If you told me at the start of the 24, 25 season that Axel Hurtig would be more of a presence for the

hitman that that season than Reese Hamilton, I would have been really surprised. But it's what ended up happening. And Reese Hamilton went undrafted. He was thought of as a weird, what a weird turn of events to. Thought of it as a potential first round pick. I saw both of them in preseason with the hitman. And Hurtig, I think, looked like he's figuring things out. Yeah.

He figured things out. Whereas Reese Hamilton looked like he. He had a nice level to his game and he just couldn't quite. He couldn't quite get to the next level. Yeah. And ended up being traded. And that's just the fickle nature of junior hockey for sure. And Axel Her take a big guy, probably what, the first flames defenseman to play for

the hitman since what? Keen and Kansick. Yeah, those were those were the days. Keegan Kansig scored, I think 13 goals in the WHL season once. Not bad. Okay. Jack, we got anything else? Two more.

Let's see. Boom again, our guys, Alamman. Okay, this is, Flames need to take advantage of Cadre's good year. Move him when the value is high. And Anderson, it won't matter how good wolf. Flames, we'll get a top 10 pick, leave Hoob's Coleman, Captain and Weeks. Well, there's been a lot said about Nazim Kadri, and this isn't really the forum to discuss that. But we can a little bit.

Four years left, seven million a year, scored, what, 35 goals this past season. season. If he were available, I'm sure teams would covet that player. I find it funny talking to some of my friends in Toronto who talk simultaneously about how Cadry would be exactly what the Leafs need, but then they bemoan his contract at the same time. It's not a bad contract. He's making $7 million in a league where what? Brad Marchand's being paid until he's 44 years old. Nazim Kadri being paid until he's 38 is not a problem. But, well, I do think there's a chance they move Rasmus Anderson, although by all indications, it's not going to happen right away. It sure doesn't seem that way. It doesn't feel that way. Although you never know, but there's not a whole lot of noise right now. Pike, I don't think they're going to trade Nazim Khadri. And I don't think there's any serious movement behind that.

As differently as I might feel about it, I, you know, in isolation, the optics of a team that is clearly doing different things from a youth movement perspective, trading a 34, soon to be 35 year old center makes sense. By the same token, it's just, it's, it's not even something that I'm devoting any brainpower to because it's just, it's not going to happen. You sure to talk a long time about something that's not happening. Okay. Sports Nets, Elliot Friedman on 32 Thoughts, had a very nice segment on the latest podcast. Go check it out.

If you haven't checked it out, he mentioned basically A, he had to devote way too much of his life to debunking trade rumors that from radio hits he didn't do and things he didn't say. Don't make up quotes and attribute them to people because that's mean and a big jerk thing to do, your jerks. But folks here are jerks. You guys, you guys are nice. That's right. You never do that.

That's right. But also, like, just the idea of like, you know, Nazim Qadri, the Flames are very happy with Nassam Khadry. Nazim Khadry, signed in Calgary because he wanted to play in Calgary. He has, from my understanding is he's got family here. He likes the area. Yeah, lots of family. Yeah. So he's, uh, everyone's motivated by different things.

And Nazim Khadry has a championship. He has made a crap ton of. money in the NHL and I think he's been through the the the the the the the the the the big grinder that is being a Ontario kid playing for the Leafs and I don't necessarily know if he's any hurry to go back there but he's going to be a Kaggleam flame until he doesn't want to be until the day that Nazan Khadri picks up the phone to his agent uh and goes get out of tell Craig tell Craig I want to go somewhere else I you know the the the flames we just

talked about a draft where they drafted their centers in their first three picks. And the reason for that is the flames have two holdover natural centers who are averaging an age of 34 or 35. So until they have enough guys that you can move a cadre or have a back when retire and not be like there are absolutely no centers to play on the NHL team, I don't know why you be in any hurry to move Nazim Qadry. You need, you know, Morgan Frost is relatively still very young as an NHLer, fairly still establishing himself and could probably benefit from the mentorship of a Nazim cadre and or Michael Backlin.

Same with Sam Morton. Justin Kirkland is potentially going to be playing his first full NHL season. He probably would like to have some guys to sort of insulate him a bit and so on and so forth. So from a hockey side, from a personal side, from a business side, from every angle you you look at this as I don't think they're moving them any time soon. I think there are different factions of folks in this market who simultaneously undersell and oversell the possibility of the flames being a disaster this season. I think there is.

Isn't this the exact same thing we heard a year ago though? It is. But I think how is this many different? Well, that's what I say. I think there are folks who simultaneously undersell and oversell it. I think there is a chance they are disaster. I think there is a chance they are just as good as they were. I think the range of outcomes for this flames team is quite large.

If they are a disaster by Christmas, I could see it. But even then, I mean, what constitutes a disaster in this market anymore? It's sort of hard to define because we haven't seen the flames truly bottom out for 12 years or 11 years, I guess, at this point. More like, more like nine, I guess, since 2016. But it's, I mean, there were, like, there were. a lot of things that went right last year. There were a lot of things that didn't go right. The flames couldn't score to save their lives.

They had two guys who were scoring at any consistency in Coronado and Cadry. And that was pretty much a Hubertoe had some crazy hot streaks. He had some times where he looked like the same old Jonathan Hubertoe. Beyond that, the depth is still very much untested. On defense, there's a lot of question marks. If Zane Perak isn't as good as we all think he will be, it's going to be interesting. If Anderson is gone and Perrek is like, like that, then it's going to be interesting.

The funny is went into last season with two actual NHL defense and a bunch of projects. Kevin Ball was in the NHL. They still end up being one of the stingiest defensive teams in the league. I grant you that. I grant you that, although I think Kevin Ball was always more of the guy. Kevin Ball had played one year in the NHL. He was a good player. I mean, he was, I think, Braden Pahall, who is.

Braden Ball had played a full season until the first time. No, I'm talking. I think now, Braden Bahaul is kind of similar to what Kevin Ball was a year ago. But nevertheless, Uh, it's, it's, it's just, I think with Cadre, you're right. It all comes down to him. And if things are completely off the rails, if it starts to look totally toxic, whatnot, but we haven't really seen that a whole lot here in Calgary.

And I think there would be, I think everything's off the table, uh, if, if, if it gets to that point. Because the last time truly that we saw anything like this was in Daryl's last year here. Uh, I remember. Yeah, but, but, but that was, that was different. because everybody had just committed. Huberto had signed his deal four months earlier. Cadre had signed his deal four months earlier, and there was nothing that was going to happen.

So it's, we don't really have the, we don't really have the precedent for it recently in this exact sort of situation to know how the flames are going to approach this. It's, it is all very hypothetical. And that's pretty much all we can say. Jack, you got one more? Hey, Pike.

Okay, this is for you. as the resident flames draft historian is that true probably you you wrote a book on it yeah yeah let's say sure yeah we've seen a change in draft philosophy the last two years any idea what catalyzed the shift it appears the scouting department to be much the same and we we kind of discussed this we've discussed this quite a bit actually it is it is interesting in in it is it is maybe more of just a trivia fact at this point that that Todd button has served in this same role under what How many six GMs? Seven?

I think it depends how you count. Yeah. How you count Burke. Burke oversaw an entire drafting year, so I think that counts. But we've discussed this. What is a Todd Button pick? Or is he more of a chameleon in his role? Does he sort of adapt more to what the GM of the did?

I think his job is to enact the will of his general manager. And I think when general managers come to him, I would say since Jay Feaster, said just bake a list and then draft off the list and then then it's just a matter of figuring out how do you build the list what attributes do you think give someone success and movie to the top list versus you know further down i think they've refined that process and you can make a case that you know Craig conway's basically been embedded in that since he became uh i think of that type special assistant to the general manager but you know pretty much since krag became part of hockey ops he's been sort of part of that but you know it's been it's been it's

It's essentially just been make the list and tell us why this person is in the spot. And I think they've done a really good job sort of adding things to that. Over post media, West Gilbertson right before the draft, it really, he had a long chat. You go out your way to check it out because it actually was pretty revelatory even for my perspective, just in terms of all the things the flames bring in to building the outdoor list. But, you know, you have the data, you have interviews, you have, you know, scouting stuff. you have all the different inputs to go into it. And then they all sort of go through their process towards making the list.

I just think they've been, I think they, the fact that they've been, they had the success last year taking a lot of guys with sort of a mix of ceiling, character, size, skill. They went through a lot of different things. And I think you're coming out of that and you go, okay, I would say, I would say last year they might have, really embedded, my last should mean 2024. I think 2024, I think they might have really embedded the data side of it into things a bit more explicitly than they had in the past or to blend it into their processes. And so I think that helps. But I also think when you're coming out of that, if you're using 24 as an experiment and

going, oh, let's see how this works. And you have the draft that they had. I think you basically go, okay, now you got some spine. You go, yeah, that worked out really well. Let's just keep doing that. And I think this year's draft felt a lot. like last year's draft because I think they're using the same process, the same rationale. And even the quote unquote reaches they made, I think they have a pretty clear mindset of,

okay, at what point do we delve from the core list and go to the area guys? And for what purpose, for what types of players, for what reason? And I think they've been pretty clear about that. And yeah, so that's a long way, that's a long way of saying, I think that I don't know of it's necessarily a change in philosophy because I think if you go to the 23 draft you know hansick they're drafting for sealing etching moran they're drafting for sealing ider suniav for sealing i think they're looking for a lot of the same types of things and even you know if you go back to like 2020 like a lot of the trilemic drafts i think we're looking for sort of the same types of players

but i think just sort of the the process that they're using to sort of build out their list and sort of the way they're evaluating players has been refined a little bit and some extra things sort of weaved into the evaluation process that might not have been fully embedded before. It is, it is all very thought provoking because there's so much going on that we don't know about. And ultimately, it's very easy to pinpoint in certain drafts and say they were able to go in more interesting directions, for example, in 2024, perhaps solely just because they had 10 picks. Whereas you look at 2022 and they had three picks and they all kind of felt like they were in the same mold of, well, we don't have much. We just want to make sure we get an NHL or

out of these guys. And I don't think they're going to get one. They might, but it's, it's, it's just a matter of, you know, I just think that's, that to me is the only, is the only true through line that I can see. The best player on the Calgary Flames last year was drafted in the seventh round of 2019. the fourth from the last player. Their philosophy has always been, every pick matters. And, you know, I think the proof is in the pudding.

At least we'll see if it is in the long term. But, you know, they've managed to find value in every round of the draft last few years. And I think they're going to have to keep doing that. Because, you know, if we've talked about the direction the team is going. And, you know, I think if you want to get to where you want to go, you need to build them within, create something that creates some, you know, an atmosphere where players want to go and players want to be. And I think we've seen, you know, Justin Wolf is a late round pick and he seems like he loves it here. I think more and more players, when they get here,

they love it, but you might have some hard time getting guys coming into your creation. So the draft probably has to be the way to do it. And I think the more you see these guys coming in and having success, you're going to have a way to get. got guys to come in, guys to stay. But I'd say, I think they, I think philosophically, they're, I don't think they've really changed a lot. But I think they're just, I think maybe they're leaning on their comfort zone a bit more. The fact that Craig is a guy that was so embedded, I think in some way still is, embedded

in drafting development. Huge. You know, I think that means that makes them a bit more likely to keep leaning on internal promotions, internal philosophies than everything else. I'll cap this off by saying that when I worked for the Okotokes Oilers, you worked for the Okotokes? I did. I spent four seasons in Oak Toaks.

And when we were still in the AJ, so before they went to the BC League, Craig was there scouting a guy for Oak Toaks at the time who went in the second round of the draft. So it wasn't like he was there to, you know, watch a Dylan Holloway type guy, like a consensus first. I mean, by the time Holloway was drafted, he had already been gone to Wisconsin for a year already. but there have been plenty of guys drafted out of junior A who were, you know, first round pick types. Not not plenty, but more than a handful. He was there to watch a second round pick. You know, that's, that's, and this was, this was two years before he became an NHL general manager.

Like he was very much a high ahead, a big guy in the Flames system. He was not some area scout. I know plenty of area scouts who watch the BC League and the AJ League. And Craig Conroy is a little bit more than that. But he has, he has always been struck me at least as the kind of guy who really goes to bat for the players who he likes. And I think that is the kind of culture that you do want to encourage in a draft room. So especially like if you're going to be at the draft table arguing with your like especially a lot of the works done beforehand when they do with list. But I think the fact that, you know, if you're one of those area guys and you're trying to argue for putting your guy in the first round mix, second round mix, having a GM who's done done who's made the towns like you have.

and a guy who probably prioritize the seeing most of the guys he can. Even with his schedule the way it is, is an angel GM, Craig Conroy's calendar is terrifying. He wasn't there just once. He tries to see a lot of the guys, I think. And I think if you're an area scout,

when you're having those arguments with your GM, he's a guy that really tries to have his arguments be well informed. He wasn't there just once. He was like, if Oketose was playing Brooks, there was a pretty good chance to Conroy was going to be there. So yeah, he knows he's he's pretty well, he's pretty well informed about the,

the drafting side of it. We can basically say that much. Yeah, the schedule coming up, the World Junior Summer Showcase. That kicks off pretty soon in the next few weeks here. Like we said earlier on, the flames are going to be pretty well represented. We expect.

And it could be one of the best years for Flames representation of the World Juniors come boxing day in quite some time. We're expecting, you know, at least a couple of big names for the flames and maybe be more than just a couple. So it'll be a year to watch. Development camp is finished. The stampede just ended for now, things that are going to be hammered out. The Conner's area contract is still not been signed. I'm sure it will be at some point. Dustin Wolfe is eligible for an extension. Matt Coronado has already signed his extension. Morgan Frost has signed his

contract. A lot of the stuff has been finished. Two things, those two things kind of looming a little bit, but I get the sense with Wolf. There's probably not a ton of urgency right away. I mean, But we'll see. I'm sure, I'm sure it'll get done at some point. I'm with, what's there. I mean,

it's got to get done. So that'll be, that'll be one to watch. And then we'll head into the season, uh, with Rasmus Randerson on the roster, without Rasmus Anderson on the roster. We don't know.

Um, but as far as this show, uh, oh, did Rick Dalywell just say something about Bowen Byron? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

They're avoiding arbitration. Yeah. Rick, uh, so Rick, uh, so Rick, uh,

so Rick, heading off here. Bowen Byram is signing a new contract with the Buffalo Sabres. Isn't that interesting? So just keeping us all on our toes. I would imagine it's probably a short-term deal, but we'll see. Meanwhile, the 23rd Street station in New York City subway is flooding? Is flooding? Oh, my. I love a good subway flooding video. I don't know why. It's terrible. I feel bad for the people with it. Pike loves it when the subway's flood. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, we'll just, we'll leave it at that. We will be back probably in about two weeks' time. We are working on something that we will hope.

In two weeks, we might be either during or immediately after the USA Hockey Summer Showcase. Yeah, that's right. So there will be lots to talk about. And we hope to have somebody with us in the studio who we will be able to bounce some stuff off of. So stay tuned for something of that variety. Until then, Pike, anything else you want to plug or are we good? Yeah, okay. Pike's got a book.

It's been out for a few years. Go read that. It's been out for a year. I'm sorry. I couldn't, I could barely fit any Craig Conroy in. Only a year? But, yeah, came out in March. Jeez, Louise, feels like it's been longer than that.

In any event, thank you all. Thank you to Platinum Mitsubishi. Thank you to everybody in the chat, even that one guy. And thank you to Jack, our buddy and my, my buddy, Ryan Pike. And until next time, you've been watching today's episode of The Back Burner.