Bear Grease - Ep. 112: Bear Grease [Render] - Three or Four Dogs ’til You’re Dead

Episode Date: May 24, 2023

On this week’s episode of the Bear Grease Render, Clay Newcomb is joined by a veteran cast of characters: Brent Reaves, of This Country Life fame, Michael Rosmond of Sunspot Lights, Ben Lagrone, and Jonathan Webster. The crew dives right in to talking about America’s First Celebrity, David Crockett, dissecting the impact of Disney’s Crockett revival of the 50’s and its lasting effect on the childhood memories and adult identities of (not just) American men, before backing up to cover topic like good hunting dogs and how you’re closer to death than you realize; how to catch a live coon  by the tail and what ever happened to Hoot. Clay then steers the conversation back to the Highlights of the previous Crockett podcast as well as what’s to come in the next episodes of this series on one of America’s favorite bear hunters, politicians, and folk heroes. And we bet you’ll wanna stick around to hear Brent and Clay pontificate on the fashion, comfort and practicality of the Bib Overall. I really doubt you’re gonna wanna miss this one… Connect with Clay and MeatEater Clay on Instagram MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and Youtube Shop Bear Grease MerchSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. First Lights fieldware collection is made for the work that happens long before opening day and continues when the season ends. Products built for early mornings, full days and real use. Hard wearing where they need to be versatile where it matters. No shortcuts. Just gear designed for the work that earns the season.

Built to perform, built to last. Check out. First Light's new field. Worldware Gear at firstlight.com. My name is Clay Newcomb, and this is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called the Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual Bear Grease podcast. Presented by FHF Gear, American Made, Purpose Built, Hunting and Fishing Gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. Welcome to the Bear Grease Render.

This is a much-awaited Bear-Grease Render. I have been working on the David Crockett series literally since we got done with Boone. Yeah. And I'll have you know that I was discouraged from working on a Crockett series. Do you have any guesses who discouraged me from working on Crockett?

Steve. Steve Ronella. Yep. Steve Rinella, he was like Crockett, come on, Crockett. And so that didn't discourage me though.

I continued to work on it. But I have been waiting for I want to start off with this right here. This book, David Crockett, Lion of the West by Michael Wallace, in my opinion,

from the books that I've read, which I've not read all the Crockett biographies. there are just almost uncountable. I bet. Biographies on Crockett. Going way back to the 1800s. But this one is a really good one.

It's really in-depth, but it also is in common man's vernacular from a guy who really was passionate about Crockett and is just a reputable historian. And so basically, Michael Wallace, I was waiting on Michael Wallace to be one of the guests on the podcast. And we've corresponded a lot

and it was not his fault that he couldn't, he wanted to, but he was unable to be on the podcast, but he kept thinking that he might. And so literally for a year, I delayed, and I have emailed him at least once every three months, for a year and a half. And he's been very, very nice,

but has not been able to do it. And so finally, I just had to pull the trigger. And I'd already gone to New York to interview Robert Morgan, who's just an expert on anybody. Like any American historical figure, you go talk to Robert Morgan and he's the man. Robert Morgan also wrote a pretty robust chapter, probably like a 40 or 50-page chapter on Crockett

in his book. His book, I'm pretty sure it's called Lions of the West. Is that one not called Lions? This one's called David Crockett, the Lion of the West. Yeah, so his book, Lions of the West. I'm going to have to fact check it. Well, somebody looked that up. It goes through all these different historical characters.

And it goes through Boone and Crockett and Kit Carson and all these guys. But Robert Morgan was incredible. And then R. Scott Williams, I just found out about him just recently, went over to Tennessee, interviewed him. So it's long-awaited. Long-awaited. So I'm pleased to have a very strong group of people here today. We're going to switch it up to my right.

Michael Roseman, Sunspotlights. Are you? You've been on here twice, haven't you, Michael? Twice before, yes. Twice before. Michael owns Sunspot lights, the Coon lights, that you always see me and Brent wearing. I'm in the Meteor store.

I hear you're a crockett expert. Like I told you, Brent thinks I'm a croquet expert because I know more than he does, but that doesn't take much. You know, I had suspicions that you would be a crocket guy. Why? I don't know, man. Maybe it's the way you look in that coonskin hat. Oh, yeah, we haven't told everyone, we're all wearing legitimate Ozark Mountain dog tree coonskin hats. Supposedly, one size fits all.

Yeah. It was a little disagreement on that. Yeah, yeah. Yours is on your head, though. Barely, yeah. But you really look like a Crockett expert with a hat on. I bet. No, so were you, what year were you born?

76. 76. Okay, so you're just a few years older than me. Did you watch Crockett growing up, like the Disney shows? Yeah, I've seen some of them. Most of it, those from reading in the last 10 years. Oh, really? Okay.

So it wasn't like you had the lunch. boxes and the guitars and the knives. You know, I got on... Extra large-sized Coons kit. I got on eBay, and there's a lot of really nice David Crockett pocket knives, like legitimate vintage pocket knives. You could buy for like five bucks that really are from that time. I mean, you can tell they're just kind of junk.

Yeah. But I almost bought a couple, and I probably will. Restart the market for that with this podcast. Yeah, I have legitimate plans to revitalize the American raccoon fur trade. Yeah, I was going to say, be honest, is this just an attempt to get the raccoon numbers down a little bit, this whole podcast? Just to get people to wear the coonskin caps. Yeah, man, I have. Did you say who made these earlier?

Josh Spillmaker. Okay. Josh Lambridge Spillmaker made these hats for us. Yeah. So I've introduced Michael Roseman to his right. My good friend, J Webb, Jonathan Webster. Bonjour. Yeah.

So Jonathan, Ben, did you recognize Jonathan's voice? Of course you did. Yeah. In the beginning. The intro, making a fool of myself. I didn't want to embarrass. I was glad you took his clip and all the clip with me. Oh, man.

You may be on the next one. Oh, man. I didn't want to embarrass the people by telling their names. No. Jonathan Webster was the second? I was the third person ambushed by Clay Newcomb with a recorder asking if I knew anything about Davey Crockett. and every thought in my head, which was not many,

left me in that very moment. But I literally could not have told you a single thing. It was amazing how much I was just like, I don't know anything about David Croggett. It was perfect. Yeah. I was your target audience. Now, you did tell me afterwards that you...

Confused him. Yeah, you thought, who did you think he was? With Daniel Boone. That's what I wanted. Totally. You know who I wouldn't have used is Michael Roseman. He was the expert.

Crocket was a martyr. He was a bear hunter. He was a politician. He was at the Alamo. He formed American identity on manhood and self-made man. I would have been like, get out of here. No, I totally confused him. And when I even said, like, he's a man's man, I was thinking of that song about Daniel Boone being a big man.

Oh, you're even confusing him at that time. I was confusing him all over. Well, but your thing played right into what I was trying to say. And you saying that he was a man's man, I brought up the question, did David Crockett in form Americans about manhood. Right. And he absolutely did. You know, in Wallace's book, he talked about how he used his bear hunting identity to bolster

this hyper-masculine identity. Yeah. And I love it. Let's go. Yeah. You know? So now, the French, were you actually speaking French? I mean, a little bit.

I took French in high school right up to the point where I was about to be able to speak it, and then I dropped it. So what did you say to us? I said, I'm sorry. I don't know. I could say cheese omelet in French Go ahead, go ahead Omelet du famage

Ah, I'm guessing that's a little Dexter's laboratory from back in the day Maybe I don't know what that is All right Why do you know that? Because I heard Steve Martin say it on a Comedy album Say that again, Brent

What it is? Omelet do famage What does that mean? Cheese omelet Cheese omel We've gone international now We're sophisticated Yeah, that was perfect

to your right, Ben LaGron. Ben, Ben's been stepping in here recently quite a bit. Old history teacher. Balance families on Instagram. Balance birth couple. Collie. I'm sorry. Balanced birth couple on Instagram.

Yes. Speaking of which, the first time I was on here, the first time I was on here, there was a Bear Grease fan that had listened to us to, is me to share the handle. And he was like this young guy, probably, you know, early 20s and passionate hunter, not married, no kids. And he was so excited that I was on Bear Gris.

He started promoting, you know, if anybody out there is pregnant, check this guy out. That's funny. He was getting pumped. That's good. That's good. Did you ever teach Crockett, Ben? Yeah, especially with the All right. Oh, really?

Yeah, that's always kind of mentioned. Just in American history? Yeah, American history. And, you know, when you came up to me like you did, J-Web asked me, I fumbled around it. I get that all the time as a history teacher. People think, because you're a history teacher, you know everything about every historical topic.

I do know a substantial amount, but you can't be an expert on every topic ever. And so you always get stumped with stuff like that, And especially older people will, they'll study something really in depth. Did you read such and such and such? And you just kind of nod your head. And you know, they think you're an expert because you're a history teacher. And your hat.

And your hat. Yeah. You know, I find that a lot of these guys that I want to interview, maybe that have even written a book, will, well, for instance, the DeCumse series, Peter Cozons, who's an incredible, author, a very legitimate historical author. When I first approached him about being on the DeComsa series, he kind of was like, wow, man, it's been, it's been a couple years since I wrote that book.

He wrote it in 2017. And, you know, you read this book, this book, and you're just thinking, man, this guy lives and breathes this. He could recite this book in his sleep. And he was wanting to do Comsa Justice. He was like, man, I want to do him justice. And so he actually went back and re-read the book and then came on the podcast. And I find that he reread the book, he wrote.

And so, yeah, I find that just the human brain is able to pick up and remember some things in incredible detail. But typically big ideas about people. And that's why you were able to say, well, you're guessing on the wrong guy. wrong person. Man's man. But most people, like the spillmakers did pretty good. So I interviewed Josh and Christy spillmaker, who Josh is on here a lot. And they hit, they hit King of the Wild Frontier, the Alamo, Coonskin hat, Walt Disney's song.

That's basically his whole life. Yeah. And that's a pretty good, that's a pretty good, pretty good, robust little tidbit of information there. But when you start talking about the more specific. specifics of how he actually influenced American culture and identity, then that's where I wouldn't have been able to answer that, really, you know, until I'd studied it. But that's when it really gets interesting because what people remember is the high points, but like underneath the surface, the undercurrent is all these things that are there. But and then our final guest, Brent Reeves. Brent, you look good in a Coonskin hat.

I, man, I look good in anything. Okay, so I asked Brent before he listened to the podcast. He told me he was telling the truth. And I said, make me a recording of what you know about David Crockett. That's what he said. Let's see. What do I know about David Crockett? He was from Tennessee.

He was a bear hunter. He was elected to Congress. He was good friends with Uncle Jed from Beverly Hillbillies. He looked exactly like Daniel Boone. and he got it to Alamo some say a hero's death some say others and I don't think those folks

are allowed in Texas and that's about it that's pretty good that's pretty thorough you hit the high points there somebody argued with me that he didn't look just exactly like Daniel Boone

he did as far as I knew as a kid Walt Disney City says Parker right that's right there's right that's Parker I did ask my wife about if she knew anything about David Clark

because she's in Texas Yeah. She said she remembered that they taught that he wrote the Declaration of Independence and he was the first man to walk on the moon. Did you really say that? No, I just made all that. I thought she might have been joking, though. Well, I did, but I said she said that he was very prominent in Texas history.

Yeah. Big deal. Well, see, I asked the guys from the element who the element guys, Casey Smith and Tyler Jones. And they didn't, they're big Texas guys, but East Texas guys. And they didn't, they were just like, ah, I mean, they didn't have like any big cultural hanging point on Crockett. So, but, so was that funny? Well, I can just see them, I can't see them studying near as hard in school as my wife did.

I was like, now those boys are smart. I ain't saying they're not, but I would say that their minds were a little more on hunting and fishing than it was. True story. What was going on with the Alamo? Hey, this is a good reason to bring up their buck truck series on the Meteor channel. So the element, they had their own YouTube channel for years and their own company. They now are inside of the meat eater world.

And so they made a series called the Buck Truck, which is where they drove around the country. hunted quite a bit of public land, some private land, and White Tail hunted in I think six or seven different states last year. And so they put up their, they've been putting up their videos every Tuesday, and we're four or five in probably by the time this comes out. But it's unique because it's a way different style of video

than typically what the meteor audience would be used to. They're longer forms. Some of them are like 45 minutes long. And usually meteor stuff is a lot shorter than that. And, yeah, they're a lot of fun. I really like Casey and telling. They're genuine. They're genuine guys.

And it's, man, that is, that's just how it happens. If you traveled anywhere and done any kind of hunting, I mean, you know that's just exactly what's going on. Yeah. And it's a little bit more of the like rough cut YouTube style travel vlog feel as opposed to, I mean, it's well produced, but as opposed to, you know, some cinematic thing, even though it's good. So anyway, those guys, yeah, they're from Texas. They don't know a thing about Croco.

But I did have some people, we're going to get in, trust me, we're going to get into the stuff on the Alamo. Trust me, boys. It's going to get good. So, Michael, did you see my video I put on Instagram yesterday? Which one? Catching the Coon? Oh, no.

He showed it. Yeah, yeah, I've seen it. I tagged him in it. You see how much I get on Instagram. That's good. That's good. I tag sunspot lights. Oh, well.

But I, when I caught that coon by hand on the ground. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Out at the farm. Yeah, I talked to you that. You did. I said it in the video. I mean, I've been around Coons my whole life, and I would have never, I would have never thought you could catch one by hand.

I've caught a bunch of them. We used to train puppies like that. I'd ride up and down the road. see them in a road ditch, run them down. You give them a little boot. They'll turn around to fight you, and you can catch them by the tail. Then you hold them out the window of the truck when you're going to go into where you're going to turn the loose. That works.

That'll do it. That works. No, I saw Michael catch one. I think we've talked about this on the render before, but I saw Michael jump out of a side by side, run down a coon and a field. And, yeah, there's a trick to it. You bump them with your foot while they're running. So, I mean, you've got to be semi-coordinated to make that happen. The Coon turns.

He'll stop when you do that, spin around, and then you grab them by the tail, and they can't reach around and bite their rear-in. Well, they can. Okay. The flexible ones? Go ahead. When you caught, Man, Nauta, they can.

They can. Yeah. You got to kind of keep them in a spinning motion. Keep them up your motion. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you kind of spin them a little bit. Keep them occupied. Kind of like you're holding a big snapping turtle. Yeah, kind of like that.

Yeah. Well, hey, anything else we should talk about before we start talking about? We've kind of just jumped right into Crockett, which is good. I have several things I can always talk about. I've actually had a question I've been dying to ask Brent for a very long time. Can I ask it? Yeah, yeah, just phrase it up. Just be like, yeah, however we'll say.

Okay. Well, it's pretty arbitrary so you can cut this out. I have been dying to know the functional benefit of overalls versus just other good, durable work pants. I've been one to ask Brent that ever since we've been on the podcast together. Okay. I think it's more style. Style.

Okay. As well as function. If you listen to this country life, I talk about all the stuff that I carry in my pockets. And I heard that. I heard that one, and I thought, I don't know if I could quite carry all that stuff. is effectively. With like two pockets. And my hiking cargo pants.

The total of that stuff I would either have to carry. I'd either have to wear overalls or a backpack or a purse. And overalls was socially more acceptable where I grew up. Yeah. Is that all you got? That's as deep as the philosophy goes? I can make something up real quick. Well, let me talk and you'd be thinking.

You wear overalls too. Well, I think the answer primarily is one of function. Was that wrong? Was my answer wrong? It wasn't wrong. It just was, it didn't have as much function and philosophy as I expected. It was missing a certain genesee qua. What do you think?

There you go. Speaking French, the biggest reason is so he doesn't wind up like that guy that we've seen on the way up here who seriously needed a belt. That's the biggest function of a pair of overalls. What I was going to say was that a pair of overalls, it takes the pressure off of your waist. Okay.

and it puts it on your shoulders. And so when you wear pants and when you wear a belt, you're constantly pulling your pants up, tightening your belt, and it just, like there's this pressure around your waist. When you wear a pair of overalls,

it's like you're wearing a robe. It's like, it's like, now you've sold me. The energy, the weight is on your shoulders and it's like a shower curtain going all the way down to your boots. And so it's more comfortable. And you can,

Brent typically wears there's one button undone on top. Yeah. He'll button. So there's two buttons on both sides right at the hip. And you can, you know, if you're kind of feeling informal, you're around family and friends, you run them two down. You get a little more airflow. Two downs too much.

That's hard. That's hot. Two downs a lot. Yep. Two downs a lot. But if you're a little bit more of a little bit more formal gathering, Brent's going to be running one button. If we went to, say, the steakhouse. He'd probably run two up.

Doubtful, doubtful but possible. But I just, they're comfortable. And I've been wearing them since I was a little kid. I got pictures of me when I was, you know, three years old wearing overalls. And it wasn't just, it wasn't them Oshkoshis or whatever youngans wear. It was regular overalls. And I've been, I wore them in high school all the way. I've been wearing them forever.

It also, what I like about them is when you're working, and I don't wear them as casually as Brent does, but I wear them when I work and used to wear them a lot when I landscaped is just this frontal protection, this one piece, like, you know, when you're really working a lot, stuff gets down in your pants, you know, I mean, just like wood chips or

grass or whatever, you know. And overalls kind of keep that from happening. You're selling me. I might have to try. Yeah. They need, you all need a Brent Reeves line overalls. Marketed as the shower robe of the

Outdoors. Brent needs a pair of overalls with a flip-up Coonskin hat. Oh, man. That's connected to the back. Yeah. Yeah. Like a hoodie. Yeah.

Kind of classy. That's a good question. Any other questions for Brand or anyone else? Pyramids. Pyramids? Pyramid schemes? How can I get in? He's going to have you invest in this overall business.

Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated. with Jason Phelps at Phelps game calls and building each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms called prime cuts. Now I'm going to tell you, I love mine because it's easy to use. I'm not going to go, I'm not going to win a turkey calling contest. It's just not going to happen. But when I run this call, I get the sounds that gobblers are looking for. I have a great turkey hunting track record. If you go listen to real turkeys out in the woods, they're not going to win calling contests, right?

that's who I listen to. I can make those sounds on my cut. I also hunt with Phelps's cut, and I hunt with Clay's cut because they're all three great cuts. Check out Prime Cuts at Phelps Game Calls.com. I think you'll be glad you did, and you'll find out that the Steve Rinella cut is an easy-to-use cut for beginning callers

who just want to start making good turkey noises and getting action. So I had a lot of interest in the mule trainer that banjo's at. Yeah. I had a lot of people writing in from multiple, well, from more than one state, trying to get hooked up with my mule trainer. What do you think I told them? None your business.

I gave him his number a couple times, but only after I was really convinced the guy was serious. Do you get a referral commission? I wish. I wish Maybe we'll see I guess No banjo's got a couple more A couple more weeks at the trainer

Have you been over there? Well I mean I just took him over there You ain't been back No no it's pretty good trip over there Banjo's the one you thought was going to kill you Yeah Hence the need for the trainer Yeah

Yeah yeah But when I brought up banjo I had a guy Say what happened to Hoot So Hoot was the dog was a young plot hound that I had that I was training that I hunted a fair bit last fall. Brent hunted him some.

Michael hunted with her a little bit. And somebody said, we heard about banjo, what happened to Hoot? And I think this is a great time to tell the world that like Crockett brought in to help usher into American identity that you get what you get by merit, Hout didn't make it. Now, Hoot's alive.

We didn't, like, take her out. Man, that was a pregnant pause. No, I felt like I gave Hoot a good chance. I left her with a guy that hunted. Man, used to, I would have never done this, but I've traveled in, and I had a guy hunter for me for about 45 days, and he hunted her probably 12 to 15 times up here. in the mountains. I sent her down with Brent.

How long did y'all have her, Mike on Brent? About a month? No, you didn't. You only hunted her like three times. Yeah, but no. You said how long do we have her? We had it a little over a month.

Okay. But y'all didn't hunt her that much. No. No, because of water and we were flooded. Yeah, we were flooded. And then I hunted her quite a bit, and she just never, she didn't hunt hard enough for me.

She was almost two years old and just wasn't making it. happen and so I considered buying a dog from but um and it was a good one you still have rocker yeah honey last night no he's not for sale no not unless you won't him have you had you talked you yeah yeah he's been hunting rocker so if it gets out that i was hunting a walker my my my my my career is over because you got to you got to do the plot hounds right i mean i don't have to it's just i'm going to give you a piece of advice same piece of advice that I gave Brent about dogs.

I get a dog that I like every between six to eight years. This is so sad. Six to eight, about every six to eight years, I find one to replace what I'm currently hunting. So in the meantime, we try a lot of puppies, a lot of young dogs, and we go through them, and they get home somewhere else because they're just not going to make for what I want, just like what happened with you with who. but my piece of advice is go buy one that's doing what it's doing

because I told you seven to eight years I asked Brent I said Brent how old are you how old are you Brent? It's seven. I said man you only got two or three dogs left and a lot of aggravation he said I'd never thought of it like that he said I wish you wouldn't even called me

but it's true you don't have that many dogs left yeah i mean i got a few more than britt a few more one or two true story i mean that when you start counting in in fives and tens it goes by pretty quick yeah it makes sense to invest in yeah it started well okay now here here's what you got to talk me down from and i'm open to people from outside the coon hunting community chiming in ben and jonathan which both of y'all have coon hunting with me yeah you've hooked coon hunting with me hadn't you been Yes. Long time ago? And technically I was a coon dog owner as a child.

Yeah, black and tan. It didn't work out. That's a whole other long story. So here's my problem is that I, I, it's hard for me to take a dog from somebody else that I just bought. I mean, because it's almost, and now I'll make a case against it, and then I'll probably go and maybe do it. But it's almost like. Does I feel like cheating? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because you didn't raise the dog, you didn't train it. Find that right one. Yeah. I've been through these stages where you're at. Yep.

I used to, if I didn't raise it, I didn't want it. I went through a phase where if it wasn't out of my dogs that I owned that I didn't care anything about it. And I'm to the point now that if it'll do what I want it to do, I don't have but four or five left. So I need to get what I can get. Yeah. How many, in your experience, Michael, how many, what's the percentage of like, good coon dogs that you try out that actually work out. Is it like 10% or less or 50% or less actually turn out to be good?

No, and he's not trying out just the average run-of-the-mill dog. I mean, Michael is like a very, very serious coon. Now, there's a difference in a dog that are running tree a coon and a coon dog. Okay. That's the first. So as far as dogs, it will tree coons, maybe, I mean, just you can turn it loose, hunted enough it'll tree a coon maybe 50% okay the kind that i'm looking for one percent one percent yeah here's the difference because what he ain't saying that i know to be a fact is he's got a dog

right now and any dog that he's ever had that i've hunted with when that when he says that dog is started and going good and you know maybe not finished yet but a dog that he can turn loose and it will leave there in a cloud of dust and trail and tree of coon in 10 minutes when we get to the tree look at the coon he turns him loose to go tree another he looks at me and says he should have done that in eight minutes i am a little picky he ain't little picky he's a lot picky clay would you have that same level of pickiness because if he's saying if he's saying one percent you got to go through a hundred dogs yeah i mean michael and i would be a different i mean i'm just not as a serious i mean michael's business and his life has been dedicated to coon honey

I am a recreational coon hunter. I love a good dog, and I appreciate a good dog when I'm with one. And I feel like I've owned one good dog. And I would be happy with less than what Michael would probably. But I have been trying, so my dog Fern died in December. She was eight years old, died a little prematurely. I think I probably had a couple more winners with her, and she died a little prematurely.

And I'd been trying to replace her with dogs from the line that she was out of for about five years and couldn't quite make it happen. Though, Michael, I may have made him, it wasn't a mistake. It wasn't a mistake. But I gave straight Sadiou out in New Mexico a dog that I had started on Koon that was doing good. And I just kind of thought, we hunted with straight out there. and I just thought she would do good for him, and I was feeling generous,

and I wanted to see how one of my dogs would do on lions out there in the West. And so I told straight if he'd drive to Arkansas and get her, I'd give him to him. I think she was 11 months old. So he literally drove straight from New Mexico here, got the dog, turned around, drove straight back, and is hunting opi to this day. They're doing good.

Yeah, he says she's a real lion dog. She probably would have been a dog that I'd have been happy with if I'd have kept her in high. monitor and whatnot. But I've been through at least four or five dogs that didn't work out. Right. But even Rocker, you liked Rocker. It did good.

The first night we cut him loose, he treaked three, just bam, bam, bam. I looked at Clay and I said, no, look, he is not this good. That's what I told him. I said, I know he looks like, but I'm telling you he is not this good. And he showed more kind of, he messed up in the next few nights. But he is a really nice dog. But he's still not what I would hunt. even at that.

Yeah. Well, I'm in the market for a dog. I just got to have a dog by this winter. And I do have a coon dog. I got Jed right back out there. And Jed on a good night would go Tree Acoon for us, but he's not a coon dog. He was sure a coon dog when he was with Fern, though.

Yeah. A lot of them are like that. That's called a me too dog. God bless him. Yeah. So, all right. David Grocket Jonathan

What So we know where you started Where we saw this In front Before and after right now What most stood out to you In this episode one And man

Hey there are Three more episodes I'm gonna I'll go ahead and tell you We've never done a four part series On anybody We've always done We've been successful

At running these three-part series This one's gonna be four Are you gonna pace it After what Robert Morgan said the bear hunter, the politician. Are you going to pay stuff? Okay. You nailed it.

That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. Man, him as a bear hunter was pretty impressive. Like, I kind of get why people back east would have been impressed. Just hearing that segment that you read from his autobiography, I mean, not only did the man survive like three instances in like a weekend that would have been like life defining for me, but he did, even though various clips that you said, he just had a way of talking that I don't,

I don't know. When you read these things, it's kind of easy to think that everybody back in that time would have talked that way, thought that way. But I think what you're keying in on, and one of the reasons he was such an archetype was that maybe not everybody was talking that way, not everybody was describing themselves that way,

acting that way. But, man, what you described of him as a bear hunter was pretty impressive. Yeah. I do have a... Go ahead. Well, I have a question about his bear hunting. So you read that section.

and he said he killed 105 bears in a year. Is that, what is you, what do you guys think about that from like a conservation standpoint? Now, obviously, it's totally different 200 years ago, but would that have been excessive, do you think, for 200 years ago? Those guys are the reason we have game laws today. I mean, the market hunting era of the U.S. was a wanton, a wanton waste of, wow, I mean, that's probably the wrong way to describe it. It was an excessive, unsustainable use of wildlife. Right. And so the pendulum swung.

The pendulum when those guys first got here was that this is an unexhaustible resource that will never go away. So we can do whatever we want, no rules and regulations. They were market hunting these bears. Crocket was making money. He was incentivized financially to go and kill as many bears as he could, along with thousands of other people. Yeah. And honestly, Crocket killed. a hundred and five bears in a year really wasn't that big a deal i mean i there are people in the

country today who have dogs that they don't they don't they don't kill that many but they tree way more than that sometimes in a year like groups of people like a like a in traveling to different states um so absolutely but the but the way i like to think about it is that the the wanton disregard of the sustainability of this thing produced the most robust wildlife management system in the history of mankind.

So absolutely. Fascinating. Fascinating man. Yeah. And it's those stories about Boone and Crocket that have fueled, and I'm going to call it sport hunting, even though I don't like that term. Those stories, those guys,

those archetypes, those icons have fueled the American sport hunting culture because we all want to be like those guys. I mean, we do. I mean, like, I just love hearing these stories about Crockett. And, you know, we go out and kill a couple of bears a year maybe. And it's, like, incredible. Tapping into that.

And we eat the meat and render the fat. And these guys were killing hundreds a year. And it's just wild. Yeah. Do you like bear meat better than deer meat? Absolutely. Me too. I do not, but I do like it.

Yeah. But I don't like it. You have never, if you, I fed bear meat last night to a family that's not from here and not introduced it all to wild game. And every one of the kids ate it and loved it. Bear meat doesn't have a wild taste. You can screw it up, and I don't know how people do. They probably leave a bear in their truck for a long time. didn't have a wild taste at all.

What was wrong with it? I just liked the texture and the taste of deer meat better. Really? But I've ate deer meat all my life. Yeah. So that may have something to do with it. But I was wondering, you know, so they, they seem to like bear meat better than deer meat. Do you think they liked bear hunting better than deer hunting because of the dogs?

And the danger element maybe. It would be just like today. I mean, there are people that, I mean, they were market hunting for deer as well and making big money off of selling the skis. I'm sure it would be there would be people that didn't like bear hunting with hounds back then because of the work and taking care of the dog

all the same reasons that somebody might like not like hound hunting today just for the technicalities of the sport they might like deer hunting better I think so I mean Crockett it's known who loved the bear hunting with hounds because usually that was the thing

they were most excited about and Crockett clearly was even though there's lots of lots of stories of Crockett killing big bucks. Crocket, uh, once in a, well, in his autobiography,

he tells that at his house he has on one side of the room, the rack of a giant buck and on the other side, the paws of a bear in his house. Yeah. I mean, so he was a big deer hunting. I wonder how commonplace that was back then of keeping antlers, his trophies and stuff like that.

Yeah. It certainly wasn't as common as his, today. I mean, like pretty much any buck we kill today, keeping the horns. I think those guys kept horns if they were in a place where they could get them back to their house easily or a spectacular set of horns. Right. Like Gerstocker, when he was in Arkansas, would have killed an incredible amount of deer

in seven years. And one time, once or twice in his book, he talked about the size of a buck. Now, he didn't have the boon and cracker measurement. He didn't have a way to say it was a 150-inch buck. or as tines were long, or like the way they described deer was just very rudimentary, a giant stag, you know. Now we have these technical ways that we describe antlers.

But I'm amazed, though, too, even today, like Louis-Dell and Charlie, we did this genuine outlaw series on Louis-Dill and Charlie. Both these guys are passed away, these guys from Arkansas. I asked Stoney, their sons, I said, do you have any of the horns from the bucks your dad? and uncles killed. And he looked at me and was just like, no.

And I said, really? And he said, well, there's one they had mounted. And I said, what about all the other deer? And he said, oh, they gave horns away. He said, the last couple of years, his dad killed or his uncle killed a big bucket, deer camp, I mean, a big bucket deer camp. And he said, we skinned it out and dad gave the horns to one of the boys. I mean, they just didn't care.

You have these deer up here on your wall. Why do you have them? I mean, in your thought process, what do you keep antlers for? I mean, I would, I'm a product of the modern white-tail hunting world. I mean, to me, a white-tail handler is a thing of extreme beauty, and it's like a unique art form of nature that is, each one is unique. There's not another one like it. I think the size of a buck represents oftentimes the maturity of that.

animal and the difficulty to kill that animal but I think it's art man they're just memories for me no we're human beings are there were memory collectors that after this moment all we had of the previous moment was memories and those are memory reminders yeah that's what they are for me I can look up there and I could say I remember that day I remember what happened I remember other than that they don't hold a place for me but but they are memory reminders is what let me ask you this mr. hunter have you got a mounted coon in your house i do and it was bought at bass pro what do you mean you couldn't buy a real coon mounted coon i don't care anything about a coon i i could never i could

treat possums i don't care it's all about the dog yeah wait a minute did you see my coat a minute stop tree possums yeah and not care is what he said yeah you know if there were no coon you'd sell you that i could have a tree possums hey brent look up above your your head. Oh yeah. You see that coon? Yeah. Yeah.

That coon, okay, when I killed that coon, I've got a mounted coon right up there, Michael. When I killed that coon, we had been hunting hard for five years and shooting every coon that we treated. And when we killed it, I told my son, I said, that is the biggest coon I have seen in this five-year block, like without a doubt. I'd only remembered one that I felt like was bigger that we killed 10 years ago when I was hunting with another guy. I went to my neighbor's certified scale.

He has a certified livestock scale. And again, this coon was so big that I was like, boys, 100%. This is the biggest coon we have killed in five years of hunting. What do you think that Coon weighed? I don't know. This is up here. You don't even need to see it. It's a mountain coon?

Yeah. 20 pounds. 20 pounds, okay. Biggest Coon in five years. 14. 14. That's the one? That's it.

That's him. Oh, man. Yeah, I would say like around 15. Yeah. 15. 21, 15. 2280, Bob. $1.

I thought you were going to speak French. That co-to-ch-ch-ch-o-ch-ch-a-old. That coon weighed 18 and a half pounds. Okay. 18 and a half pounds. Wow. And most of them are weighing, you know, in the 12. 12, the bigger one, 14, 15.

Oh, my own to get big. Yeah. Oh, yeah. The biggest one I ever killed was the second coon we ever killed. He was 30 pounds. In Arkansas? In Arkansas. But that's in the Delta.

Yeah. And that's huge for down there, too. I mean, a 10, 15 pound coon is a great big coon down there. He was just abnormally large. It was second coon we ever treat. I'll be darn. Hey, maybe this is, I don't know, it's been a long time since I thought about Opie. You know what dog struck that coon?

Opie. Opie did? She sure did. That was the first time I thought. thought she might have some potential because I turned her out by herself and she went up in this holla and struck a coon and she was working it and I could tell she couldn't quite figured out so I turned fern loose right behind her or you know like 10 minutes later and they went in there and treated it so she she was young though but they treat that coon yeah um

yeah another question about coming back to david crockett yes do you think he was an exceptional bear hunter or do you think that it was like do you think that he was a bear hunter just like other bear hunters would have been at that time. And there was something about his personality that made him really stand out. Like his self-promotion or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. I think he was,

I think he was a top-end bear hunter. Okay. Like, I don't think there were many guys that were better than him. I don't think he would have been like the best in the country at that time. I mean, he was good. He was just known.

Huh. You know, he was just known. Something about that story where he said his friend when he went to go get him back and he said that he wouldn't have chased him. that bear in there. I didn't know if that meant he was just taking more risks and just kind of, just kind of a wild man.

That was a good catch because it was hard to catch what he was saying. But yeah, he was saying, man, I wouldn't even gone after that bear like you did. I'm not, I think he was really good. But I think there were other guys that were just as good that you just didn't hear about. So the way he was bear hunting with dogs, though, I mean, how good a bear hunter he was, most blooded, depending on how good his dogs were, too. I mean, they were tree and coons. He wasn't still hunting them.

He may have been also. See, those guys, though, back then, without GPS callers, it was an athletic event. Oh, yeah, for sure. Because you had to stay with the dogs and be with them, be with an inherent distance, going to these dogs late at night, spending the night out in the wood. I mean, it was like a triathlon. Trying to kneecap a bear when you get right next to them. Oh, that was a pretty good descriptor in the dark feeling of it.

that bear being bade by it. Me and Michael was listening to it again on the way up here today, and I said, well, when he was talking about, he fell down and started his behind. I said, well, he started on the right end. Can you imagine. Now, obviously, he was in the earthquake area. What was he calling the hurricane?

Oh, that is a good question. And I don't have a great answer. I had a guy text me today and said, what is a hurricane? I'm going to assume it was tornado damage. That's what I said. Really? I think, yeah, do you have any more? No, no, I just assume that.

Obviously, there wasn't a hurricane in Tennessee. And I don't know what they called them back then, but it would have probably been tornado damage, which would have been great for bear because it would have been exposed to the sun. It would have had berries. It would have had... Yep.

That's exactly what I said, because just think about the eastern deciduous forest being just this one big blanket pretty much of a big forest. And like I know for a fact, the hurricane creek drainage that's within about, that's in Ozarks,

one of them, that Gerstocker talked about, he said that they called it the hurricane because of a hurricane that came through and went through the valley. And they called them hurricanes. It was a tornado. And then that would create essentially like a clear cut.

Right. It would knock all the trees down. Then the underbrush was, start to grow up, secondary trees, grape vines, berries, blackberries. Just a big thicket. And so if you're in an ancient primeval forest that's never been cut before, that would be like big hardwood and pine timber, like over in that country would be a little different, but basically big hardwood forest, which would have expansive canopy and not a lot of understory,

which would not be that great for wildlife. Where there was disturbance like a tornado would be incredible. for wildlife. So that's where they went. Yeah. That's a great, that's a good question. On Blood Trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over. They just get darker. I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bag. And there was a pool of blood.

Oh my God, he doesn't have a hit. Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors, where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the true. Truth gets buried under brush and silence. Indications were he should be right there, but he wasn't. This season, we're going deeper. From cold case files to whispered suspicions, from remote mountains to frozen backwards. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness.

Because out here, there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments and the people left behind trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person. he's incapable of being honest. Somebody somewhere knows something. I'm Jordan Sillers. Season 2 of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, I Heart, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Ben, what stood out to you? Of the top of your coon. We're still wearing our Coon skin hats. It's comforting. I like it. A couple things. Number one, when you're talking about memories, I was immediately transported to

one of the oldest things I kept from childhood, which was my coonskin cat that I got at Disney World. Really? Five years old. Oh, yeah. In Florida? What year would have been? At frontier land.

I've been to five years old, so early 90s. Youngster. So that trip, I don't remember a ton about that trip, except for it's a small world because if it's possessive power over, the human mind being terrified of the haunted mansion and getting that

coonskin cat. Wow. And I remember my dad buying it and handing it to me, be like, that's a Davy Crockett hat. And as a youngster being like, crowned with this superpower, but I didn't know much about him. Right. And so

one of the things I've been pondering about since yesterday I listened to it was like I understand why he was significant in a celebrity status back then and just knowing the context and the lack of media and like in 1800s in his lifetime. Yeah yeah yeah like if you get published with anything I mean that is like right the internet for people. It wasn't like everybody had a whole lot to choose from. Yeah exactly. Yeah. And you know bear hunting is is an exciting those are exciting stories because of some of the danger involved and stuff. But anyway, um the question of my mind is like why do we

Why has he impressed himself so much on us? And my conclusion is that it's because he was introduced in our childhood. And anything introduced in your childhood imprints on you differently than as an adult. Like if somebody came to me now and told me about the same guy that I'd never heard of, it's going to be, oh, that's cool. One example is like sports. you know, I, when you follow sports guys now as an adult, you're like, yeah, they're really good, it's cool, you're excited, especially if they're on the team that you like. But the sports guys I followed when I was a kid, I worshipped them. Yeah, like Troy Aitman, Emmett Smith, I was a big Cowboys fan.

I saw those guys in person. I mean, it was like, I remember writing a letter to Emmett Smith. Yeah, yeah, and I found it later, unmailed by my parents. But, uh, plus one on the Coon hat, minus one on the Smith letter. I got behind him on the JFK. Ain't that what goes around Dallas, the interstate part? Really? And it was, I remember the license place that catch 22.

I thought, well, that's kind of weird. As we drove, I was riding my brother. I was driving by, and he hit, it was a Mercedes. His wind was rolled down, and there was Emmett Smith. I thought, oh, 22. That was his football. Wow. That's crazy. I should, I should have.

asking, man, did you ever get that letter? Come on, man. Yeah, it's a funny letter because back as a kid, I thought when you really like something, you always use the word love. So the whole letter is me saying, I love you, man. I love you so much. I love you. I love you. Now I know why your parents didn't smell. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But anyway, that was what I was thinking about. I was like, because I was introduced to this figure as a young kid, it's like such a big deal. Well, that's who Disney targeted in the 1950s. They didn't target the dads. They targeted the kids. They targeted the kids and sold them a bunch of stuff. Brilliant.

Like we, we, we, the, America came back from World War II and had all this ability to produce trinkets and people had extra money and there was all this manufacturing and plastic and all this stuff. And it, it, it, it created this merchandising frenzy over Crockett, which imprinted the nation. And then we inherited it. You know, I'm 10 years older than you or something, Ben.

and we kind of inherited Crockett. And I remember the Crockett song vividly. I mean, I could have told you all the high points of Davy Crockett and that he was like a bad to the bone dude and a hunter, Coonskin hat. Just liked him. Like when I see Fess Parker's picture wearing buckskins and carrying a long rifle, I just like it. Like I just, I mean, I would have even pre-researching him.

It's just like ingrained in us. And that's what's so interesting to me. It's like, why does, my brother was the one who sang the ballad of Davy Crockett, Zach Newcomb. Oh, it was that. That was Zach. That's like, Zach's not a big hunter. He did kill a nice buck last year two years ago.

But, you know, like, why does Zach Newcomb remember the Davy Crockett song? I mean, how many songs from the 1950s could he just sing with a single cue of one word? Crocket, go. Baby, baby, Crocket. Probably not many. So it's like,

why? It is kind of a mystery. It's your childhood. It's where you're at DeVena Melanie how you grab a hold of things. But I think it's more complex than that, though. I mean, that's definitely major component.

But I also think it's because there's something to grab on too that goes back to this American identity of when we were first America. And I mean, even you're patriotic, you're not patriotic, that's not what I'm talking about.

I'm just saying the fact that he was, he did something to the culture that was big. And what we're going to learn in episode two is that Crockett influenced a bunch of people. Crockett influenced Lincoln.

Crockett influenced Mark Twain. Crocket influenced American culture. Like, bam. And so when we hear him, it's like our blood. You know what I mean? And it just like, And obviously, to some people more than others,

I'm interested in rural America and hunting. And so, I mean, you know, Crock is going to meme something. It was really, you know, I didn't see, it was reruns when I was a kid. I was born in 66. So when did that Walt Disney stuff? 55. Yeah, okay. So it was, it were reruns that when Walt Wide World of Disney or whatever it was it,

they came on Sunday evenings, and we was always wanting, oh, man, I hope it's David Crock. I hope it's Daniel Boone. You mean you couldn't fast forward? and record. No, believe it or not. You actually had to be there. You had to be there on NBC, on Channel 4.

But when that would come on, it was immediately, we were engaged in it because he was doing stuff that we knew about. You know, we could watch Escape from Witch Mountain or all the other stories and movies that, you know, Herpy and Dr. The professor, the nutty professor or whatever, and he's making tennis shoes that you can jump over and shoot a basketball, all of these Disney movies that were just so far fetched from anything that I'd ever seen before.

But somebody walking out of the house with a rifle in your hand and dragging a deer back. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Not only do I know that, I've done that, or I watch my dad do it. Yeah. And it was something immediately that you could grab on to that, you know, he's like us.

Yeah. And we're like him. Like a reality show. Yeah, for real. I mean, he was just like, he's been on Uncle Charles there, you know, or something. So. What was your favorite part? What stood out to you, Brent?

In this part, or in this edition, I guess, episode, the part where no one, I didn't know that he wrote his own book. I didn't know that. Right. So, and I've actually ordered it from Amazon. And I'll be, yep, that's the one. And I'm titled David Crockett, not Davey. yeah David Crockett so I'm anxious to read that and out of all the stuff you know I've been familiar with in my whole life since I was six or seven you know and remember that kind of stuff

and I'm I'm today years old actually Wednesday when that came out that I learned that he wrote his own autobiography yeah so I'm I feel like Michael I'm going to be coming back to you in just a second to ask you what was your favorite part or what you've learned. I think the Crockett autobiography in a way

did him disservice. And I think you'll see it if you read it. When I first read it, don't spoil it. Yeah,

I will, I will taint, I will put my thoughts on top of you. But that's kind of what we do on this podcast. You can, you want to step out for now.

I try to dodge anything he puts towards me anyway. No, Crockett, this was a political rebuttal. This was a political rebuttal. He was being, and we're going to learn all this in episode three about his political career, but basically they thought he was the only guy that could beat Andrew Jackson.

And so this group, this political group, the Whigs were trying to, we're courting him for presidential run, which was wild. Like, it would be almost equivalent to like a Donald Trump running for president. It's just this, like, wild... So far out of the system. Yeah, even though he was in politics, but it was just like, like, wow, really? Yeah, and those two were enemies also.

Jackson. Jackson and... For sure. Yeah, they didn't like each other at all. Hadn't liked each other from way back. Yep, yep. And so this book is not... If I was his editor, I would have been like,

hey, dude, we got to cut all the last fortune... You know, you would have... About half of it's really about his life, and the other half is kind of political retribution in a way, kind of talking about. And so he... In some ways, it's incredible that we have this book because we actually get to hear the voice of Crockett

through his words, which we didn't have for Boone. Did I talk about that? Yeah, yeah. So that was one of the things that was kind of mysterious about Boone, He never heard his actual voice. There was a chapter that was supposedly written by him in his voice in Philson's book. But it wasn't Boone at all.

Like Philson wrote it in Boone's voice. Yeah, because his son said that wasn't the words of his father. Yeah, that's right. That's right. And this is faux show the words of David Crockett. And so, like when he tells bear hunting stories, when he talks about his childhood, and he does talk a lot about very personal stuff, which is incredible.

But anyway, you kind of, I make a lot of excuses for Crockett trying to prove that he's cool so that Steve Ronella will like him. Saying that if he'd have had a good editor, he wouldn't have had this problem because the editor would have been like,

hey, you can't talk about yourself like that. And Crockett would have been like, no problem, I won't. So anyway. You got to remember the time it was consider everything that was the time that it was in. You know, the way we think now about things is far different from what they think about stuff.

Yeah. So I think he gets a pass on that, on a lot of that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's because of the world he was in. You could see how they would eat at you, too, as a person in politics, not ever getting to feel like the whole truth's out. Yeah. Yeah.

side of it and then you pass events that that happened you want to get your beef out you know like now when everything you ever have ever said can come out i mean that dude what a very minute percentage of his thoughts and ideas we probably got out yeah well yet we got whip my weight and wild cats out of him so uh yeah but him speaking about politics in that book was something that had to have driven him quite a bit there in the last part of his life because politics is what ended him up at Thalamow. I mean, him losing those elections is why he'd still been in Tennessee or in Congress or something. So that's a huge part of his life that he wants to set the record straight on.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's hard to blame him for it because they had written multiple fake autobiographies, which at the time, there was nothing people could do. People would, I mean, there was no retribution

and there was no way to know it was going to happen or they didn't even know who wrote them. Like it was just like, David Crockett. I thought it was funny that when the guy you talked to, I'm trying to remember his name.

Scott Williams. Yeah. Our Scott Williams. He said his, he got interested in that name, image, and likeness stuff. And I thought,

wow, you know, that was a thing even back then. Yeah. So that's pretty well, and that was a, it's kind of splitting hairs a little bit because when we talked about Boone we talked about how Boone was an American archetype

and he was one of the first folk heroes of America and Boone rose to global fame in his lifetime Crockett did the same thing but there's some hair splitting difference in what happened with him Boone and again we said this on the podcast

but Boone didn't become famous until he was in his mid-50s. And all the stuff he did that made him famous, he did not knowing anyone would ever know about it. And that's why Steve says that Boone should not even be on the same page as Crockett, because that's cool. Like, I mean, you want your hero to be doing what he's doing, not because somebody's going to put him on Instagram. Right.

Not because somebody's going to write a book about him. Not because somebody's going to say he's cool. Is that Steve Ronella's beef with Crockett, that he was interacting? with his own fame. He's going to after he listens to this. Stay in your lane, bro. Yeah, no, no. It was the celebrity status that he doesn't like it.

And it's the same thing that I am working through with Crockett. Like, I'm really trying to understand it. Because Boone didn't become famous until mid-50s, and Boone did stuff to try to capitalize on that fame to some degree. but he was already, but he just wasn't in control of it as much. And Boone dies, an impoverished man. If you remember when Boone died, the last guy, the only real portrait that we have of Boone was painted of him

when he was in his like late 70s, maybe even early 80s, right before he died. And a painter went from the northeast down into Missouri. Like there was no way to like call and say, Mr. Boone, can I come next Thursday to your house to paint your picture? and a painting session would take days or even weeks, you know, because they're literally having the guy set there,

and they're painting him. And so this guy travels from the northeast, hoping that Boone is still alive and goes to Boone's neighbor who lived within a mile of him and says, do you know where this Mr. Boone is? And the guy was like, I don't even know who you're talking about. And he goes, he's an old man,

and he looks like this, and he was like, oh, that guy? Yeah, he lives right down the road. Had no idea who he was. Yeah, and that was Daniel Boone. Crocket. So, you know, I would say Boone was more of an archetype folk hero,

not so much a celebrity. Crocket knew of his fame, interacted with his fame, tried to capitalize on his fame, which I don't blame him for. I mean, it's like that's what people do. and he did stuff like

write books and then what busted him for for Ronella is the Lion of the West play that was a Broadway play that was in Europe as well I mean this is like major

and this is major American stuff too because this is one of the first major American theatrical productions that went global and it's called Lion of the West key character is Nimrod Wildfire who is 100% David Crockett.

Crockett's alive. Crockett's like in his 30s. And everybody knows Nimrod Wildfire is Crockett. And in Crockett, they invite him to New York to go to the play. That's what gets Steve, is he went. Because he went? He went.

He went to the play. And when Nimrod Wildfire walked out onto the stage, Broadway production of New York, Nimrod Wildfire, the actor, stops, takes off his coonskin hat, and tips his hat to Crockett who's sitting in the balcony. And what does our boy Crockett do? He stands up and waves to the crowd. Just like Brett Reeves would have done.

Absolutely. So this is my question. If Steve had hunted his entire life, no one really knew who he was. Somebody heard a little something about him, and he found out in New York there was a play about him. You think he wouldn't have went and seen it? I mean, yeah. I'll ask him. No, it's, it's, so in a sound bite, you would, you could say Crockett was like vain compared to, and we'll hear other stuff, but I'm telling you, I think, I, I, I think it's apples and oranges, different times. Yep, yeah. I mean, there's a little overlap, but it was after, you know. That's what I was thinking. There was a huge difference between, I mean, when Daniel Boone was in his 30s and when David Crockett was in his 30s.

And I'm not picking on Steve Ronella in this segment. But what would Crockett have today if he were here? What would he do? He'd have a television show. He'd be on Instagram. I mean, just like me. I mean, you know. You'd have a hat.

Just like yours. He'd have a hat just like me. And he'd be looking for a good dog. But he only had one Walker dog, Michael. Oh, that's it? He would have to treat 200. There it is. No, did you pick up on that in the bear hunting story when they were in the cracks?

I didn't hear anything about a walker dog. Well, and he didn't say Walker. See, you boys, you got to turn on your listening ears. He said that it was at night, and he said there was one white dog that he could see. I mean, if there was one white one, that means the rest of them were dark. Yeah. So it had to been a walkie. You know, some type of Walker dog.

They like to bob their tails. Some kind of English foxhound, more than likely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it wouldn't have been a straight-up walker because it really probably wouldn't even hardly made by then. Walkers, no, I mean, they come mid-19th century. The actual breed.

Yeah, the actual Treen Walker breed. Right, yeah. Crocket said, and we're going to learn about this on the next episode, I don't know why I'm telling you now. But they like to bob the tails of their bear dogs. Makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.

Especially hunting in the hurricane. Yeah. Because the breeders are going to whip it to pieces. Yeah. We didn't have a squirrel dog that tail wasn't bob. Yeah. It's really just aesthetics. Well, it's a little less to grab a hole to by a bear also.

That's true. Yeah. But today you won't find houndsmen bobbing tails. Out west they do sometimes because their tails are hitting cactus and stuff. I've seen a lot of beagles with bob tails. Oh, really? Yeah. yeah because they beat them to death in the briars yeah yeah Michael what stood out to you

I wanted to see him slide down that honey locusts and not going to scratch that that's what I wanted that was more impressive than leaping the Ohio yeah yeah he might make the Ohio he's not gonna make it down that honey locusts without a scratch yeah yeah yeah I enjoyed it um I don't guess what I've read had there hadn't been a whole lot about the bear hunting stuff most of what you read covers his childhood and then on into that. It calls him a hunter, but it doesn't really go into depths on the bear hunting stuff. I thought it was pretty neat about them being in those hurricane or the earthquake cracks. Yeah.

Yeah. That was pretty cool. Yeah. But, you know, he was just a guy doing what everyone else did. So, I mean, just like we always said about Boone, he was just, he wouldn't have even known. I mean, could you imagine going through your entire life thinking you were doing what everyone else was doing and look up and they had a play about you? Yeah.

You know, so, although he did, was the play before or after the politics? It was. Before, wasn't it? No, because the politics are what made him known. Okay. The play was in the 1830s, and he got into politics in the early 1820s.

So politics is what took him to the national stage. I mean, it's the only reason he would have had even a voice for people to know who he was. And then he started, in his political speeches, he started talking about hunting. We're going to, we'll get into it a lot more, but basically on his first political speech, he said he got up before the crowd,

and his opponent, they used to travel together with their opponents, and he said his opponent spoke and was this like diplomatic, you know, just like political speech. And Crockett had his political speech. speech formed and he got up and he said he describes it really well he said i felt like there was a cotton there was cotton growing in my throat and i couldn't get a word out for any give some funny anecdote and he said i was so choked up i thought i was going to cry and he said and all i know to do was was start telling him a hunt that's basically told him a hunting story yeah and the people loved it

like they they thought the other guy was a dork and that kroko was cool and kroket was like oh i see how this works. And so he just got up in front of people and talked about hunting, made fun of his opposition, was self-deprecating. Stole their speech. Yep, stole their speech. Really? He was just fun. Before the guy went on stage, he gave his speech, gave the other guy's speech. Oh, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, oh, we're going to get into all that later. Oh, I did want to say one thing about you, though. Deciduous. Forrest. Deciduous. never in the history of hillbilly has there ever been one say that.

So every time you say it, it takes your credibility down just a little bit. What do you mean? I mean, they just don't say it. They just say the woods, man. The hard woods, whatever. Did I say deciduous on this podcast? Yes, you did. Yeah, yeah, you did.

And when you said it. And the render, too. Yeah. Deciduous, one of my favorite words. Never in the history of hillbillied them. Has there ever been one. say that. Yeah,

billed them. I just wanted to warn you. Okay, well, that's, that's good to know. Good to know.

I know you like your hillbilly crid, so. He's faking it. You hear what he said? I figured I said it wrong. Every time I do a podcast, Misty's like,

Clay, you said that totally. Sounds like my wife. I started just skipping words that I don't know and just putting in new words. No, this has been a fun,

fun series. we've got three more Boone or podcast. See, you did it too. I don't even know who this guy is. I don't even know who this guy is. Yeah, Wallace Biography is really good. It's my favorite.

Our Scott Williams is really good too. He takes a little bit, his angle is a little more narrow, which is unique in that he was really interested in Crockett's celebrity status. because R. Scott Williams, super neat guy, incredible guy.

He is the lead man at the Discovery Park Museum in Union City, Tennessee. Oh, okay. Which is an incredible place. Union City, Tennessee is this little, it's a small town like 10,000 people. And they have a world-class natural history

American museum in that town that there was some rich guy that lived in that town that had an enormous amount of money. And he said, I want to build a museum here. And it's totally worth it if you're in that part of the world. To go there by yourself or take your kids, they got a big crockett section.

But our Scott Williams, really cool guy, so his book is good, too. I know there's literally a saying about not judging a book by its cover, but it's got a pretty cool cover. He's got a crockett wearing a pair of cool shades. I got a pair of rayband. Yeah. It's looking pretty sporty.

America's first celebrity. Hey, I got a question here. Everybody in here that had a coonskin cap growing up raise their hand. You didn't have one? That's a good question. There's five of us in here, and only two of us did. I would assume you and Michael would have had one growing up. You were just trying to put me on the outside.

No, I was going to... I thought it was going to be a four-to-one for sure, though. Yeah, I did too. I may have had one. I don't want to lie and say I did. It wasn't prominent. Well, you're the only grown-up that I know that has any right now. But as a kid, I was just wondering.

And it was because of it. Well, you just said it because it's when you went out of history. You would have had probably a real tail but a fake top. Precisely. Yeah. What about yours, Brent? Yeah, it was wherever. I mean, it came with a flintlock rifle and the flintlocked.

Pistol. I was in Missouri last year, and I saw a double coon tail hat for the same price as a single coon tail. I'm serious. In the gas station in central Missouri, walk in there, and there's a rack full of Danil Boone. They market quite a bit with Boone on the Coonskin hats these days. So interesting. Usually it's Daniel Boone. But there was a rack of Daniel Boone Coonskin caps, and they're faux.

Like they're a faux fur on top, but they actually are real coontails. Because the coon tail and the actual fur market is not valuable. Like when they are making fur garments out of coon hides. But they don't use the tail. They just use the prime parts of the hide today. And so the tails they sell to make kids hats, but they use faux fur. Anyway, there was this hat and it had double coon tails coming off the side. And it was like 1299.

And then I was like, oh, dude, if that's 1299, the single coon tail is probably like $6.99. And it was $12.99 too. Wow. I would have been a really unique experiment to send a kid in there and say, pick out which Coonskin hat you want. I want the one with the two tails with one tail. Thank you guys for coming up here today. Really appreciate it.

Good stuff. Looking forward to the next three episodes. Yeah. Life changing. It's going to be good. Going to be good. Maybe one day we'll sell these hats on the Meteor.com. Wow.

Just get some more. Just get some more. I got a freezer full of Coon Hads out there. Can you make one a little bigger? Maybe for you. Special. Adjustable. All right, guys.

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