Bear Grease - Ep. 168: BEAR GREASE [RENDER] - Plott Hounds, Bucking Horses, and Long Hunters

Episode Date: December 6, 2023

On this week’s episode of the Bear Grease Render, your host Clay Newcomb is joined by Isaac Neale, Gary “Believer” Newcomb, Brent Reaves of “This Country Life,” Josh “Land Bridge” Spielmaker, and Dr. Misty Newcomb. Topics discussed include: an update on Brent’s horse Ken’s Reward, a great mountain buck that Josh had the opportunity to take, a poll on the Origin Story of the Plotts, as well as a full breakdown of the previous Bear Grease episode focusing on Plot Hound Royalty, Berry Tarlton. We really doubt you’re going to want to miss this one…Preorder MeatEater's new Audio Original "MeatEater's American History: The Long Hunters (1761-1775)" today. Connect with Clay and MeatEater Clay on Instagram MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and Youtube Shop Bear Grease MerchSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. First Lights fieldware collection is made for the work that happens long before opening day and continues when the season ends. Products built for early mornings, full days in real use. Hard wearing where they need to be versatile where it matters. No shortcuts. Just gear designed for the work that earns the season.

Built to perform, built to last. Check out. First Light's new field. Worldware Gear at firstlight.com. My name is Clay Newcomb, and this is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called the Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual Bear Grease podcast. Presented by FHF Gear, American Made, Purpose Built, Hunting and Fishing Gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. Welcome to the Bear Greas Render I have

We've got a great A great cast of characters here today To talk about One of the best Bear Grease podcast in a long time In my opinion I don't want to I don't want to show my whole hand too quickly

So listen to this one and then forget the rest Well it's up to you but so this is the Bear Grays Render If you're new to the Bear Gris Render This is where we gather a group of, we have six of us here today. Experts. Six experts. And we talk about the bear grease.

There's five of us here. Six of us. There's six of us. There's six of us here. And we talk about the actual documentary style, bear grease podcast. So if you're new to Bear Grease, this is what we're doing. I want to pitch an idea to you guys here, regulars on the render. Let me introduce.

To my right, we're going backwards today. To my right, Gary Believer. Newcomb, my father. Good to see you. Thank you. Good to be here. I bet you like this episode. I loved it. I knew you would. To my dad's right, Josh Lambert Spillmaker. I'm just glad I'm back because this podcast has gone to pop. Josh's thing, Josh hadn't been on a render in a long time.

Fresh from a milk cart. I'm going to tell you the different things we're going to talk about. We're going to come back and talk to you about a buck. I'm not going to spill the beans. But great to see you, Joe. Thank you. Your beard's looking great. The land bridge is looking good. To you're right, my lovely wife, Dr. Misty Newcomb. Great to see you, Doctor.

This is the only place I get called, Dr. This is the only place. I mean, it's like what uses a Ph.D if you never even use it. What's that? Exactly. If you're not going to go. Don't spill anything. Yeah.

It's a long story, Josh. So Misty has some very insightful comments that she would like to give about women. Whoa. That's a big... That is. It's great. I would say she's probably

glad you're here. Mr. Nguyen. To your right, Isaac, Neil. Isaac, great to see you.

Hey, it's good to be here. Isaac works for Barry Grease. Yeah. I'm sure my wife is very excited for me to receive

this insightful information about women. Have her listen to what Misty's going to say. It's going to be big. This is going to change our relationship. Lower expectations. It's good.

It's that good. And to Isaac's right, the one and only, Brent Reeves. Brent, good to see you. You're really looking sharp today. Man, I'll tell you, the only thing I know about women is they've been in my trouble since I figured out they wouldn't men. That's a lot there. There's a little ton back there. That's a Waylon Jennings, a line from a Waylon Jennings.

Oh, okay. Okay. Alexis, get back in your chair. Sorry. Well, you have some great women in your life as do I. Of course. Brent is wearing a full cry. That hat, when I saw, I hadn't mentioned your hat yet.

I really wish I had a hat like that. I would wear it. It's a vintage. It's a vintage. Foam trucker hat with full cry. So full cry is a print, coon hunting, hound hunting magazine. that has just been kind of revitalized by one of our friends out in Washington, Jason and Duby and his wife.

Danny. Danny. Yeah. And Full Cry is an old school. I think it was started in the 1940s. No, 1939. Is that right? Yeah.

Okay, 1939. Full Cry was started as a print magazine. They got a good shout out in the podcast. Yeah, yeah. I love it. I'm an old Full Cry man. Yeah. My picture was in Full Cry magazine in 1994.

How old were you? I was 16. Okay. And I was, I had just got Newcomb's Southern Wachita Blue Thunder, registered Blue Tick and sent in a picture to like the readers, the readers submissions. Yeah. And Dad, I think you took the picture right out in front of our house of me with a little puppy.

The real kid is wearing my Carhart hat. And your outdoor career has been downhill ever since. Yeah. You peaked early. Let me tell you what, Clay Newcomb is more excited about those dogs. papers than he is. He feels the same way about those as I feel about when we get the kids' social security numbers. I can't name this thing.

I can see that. What's your point? So I just had to mention Brent's hat and just how sharp he looked. Yeah, man. Here's my pitch to you guys that I'm very, very seriously considering is you know how the late show, the talk show hosts? You're going to think of this as a joke. This is not a joke. Okay.

The late night talk show hosts have a live band that's just always there, just always waiting. Oh, yeah. Start out with a song, in with the song, something funny happens, and you're like, go. I want a banjo player here all the time. No, it can't be Misty. I would like to be the laffer. You know, the person that sits on the edge and just kind of like give supporting comments. Not a whole lot of personality, but just kind of like just...

The personality comes out in the banjo. Right. I mean, because their job is not really to talk. But I would kind of lean on them, like Jimmy Fallon leans on his guy occasionally for input, like outside input. You're looking for a banjo playing Questlove. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't need necessarily a contributor. Yeah. But I would be like, imagine this. Podcast starts. Entros over. And I go, and I go, hit it, J.B. Yeah. Bang bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, and then we start talking.

Thanks, man. And then I'm like, like halfway through after a good story, I'm like, J.B, hit a lick. Like somebody tells a real boring story. It's like too long. I'll be honest. I'll be like, hit it, J.B. A little bit like this is Clay's expectations for me just in our normal everyday life.

Banjo playing. Not the banjo playing, but just the like support the. the hit at misty I mean this introduction comment about the insightful feedback I've got for women I don't know man well I uh

and and it's got to you know I like musicians that just come in and out of your life like a radio dial are you advertising this position nope it'll be appointed like a like a like a dictator appointing like a lead person to oversee something in his government

He doesn't realize it, but he's much more into a dictator, you know, type of government than he is. I'll take a benevolent dictator. I'll take a benevolent dictator over a crooked politician any of day. A crooked elected politician. We're going right into it. We're going right into it. This is great, man. I've been energized.

No, no, no, no. No, no. Yeah, yeah. Go, J.B. I've been energized by the story and life of Barry Tarleton. It was a good story. good. We're going to talk about that.

Brent, so just a little follow-up, Ken's reward. If you remember on last episode of Bear Grace, Brent told a story about getting an American quarter horse named Ken's reward. And we put out an APB to the world about getting this information. Many people have responded about that. And Ken's reward was an actual horse. Yep. He was born.

And we had multiple people send us the papers. So it was a really. Give a little context for people who didn't listen. Yeah, so Brent has a podcast called This Country Life, and that's another complicated part of being in the Bear Grease world. This isn't like a normal podcast where you just like turn it on, and it's like two or three guys just like yipping all the time. Yep, that's true.

You got to have your brain on. See, there's the Bear Greece documentary style podcast, the Bear Greece render and this country life. This Country Life comes at every Friday. That's Brent's podcast. It's usually like 22 and a half minutes long. Okay. And it's a great, excellent, very well-written, beautiful look into rural America.

Very good. So Brent told a story about a quarter horse. Wildly entertaining. Brent told a story on his podcast about his dad in the 1980s buying him a quarter horse at a great deal. And if you had a listen to know that. In Ada, Oklahoma, right at home, and the horse was a bronch. It bucked him off four times. and then the saga of the horse is pretty wild and the horse gets sold very quickly.

Yeah. How long was that period of time? Well, we didn't use up a sack of feed before he left out. And so I wanted to know the story of Ken's reward. Like, where did the progeny? Who is Ken? I mean, that's the, if you're a normal human and you hear that story, The first question you're asking is who's Ken and how does this horse's reward?

Yeah. Yeah. And how did he lose it? I mean, it slipped through his, it slipped through his hands like water. I think it may have been, it may have been a sort of tongue and cheek name. He may have been a dirt bag. Well, that's what we want to know. Yeah.

And so, so we've had many people that have sent us. Like I was looking at the registration papers for the American Quarter Horse, Ken's reward. You can track it back generations. The horse was born on April 1st, 1979. Yeah. Interestingly, the year of my birth. Whoa.

Oh, that was 13. You were 13. And the horse died on January 1st, New Year's Day, 2004, at almost the age of 25. Wow. Wow. So, and Brent would add it. That part, I didn't know that. Yeah, the horse died in 2004.

So when do you think you had it? It would have been 1988. So the horse would have been seven or eight years old. Just long enough to let the world know that it's a bronch. Yeah. Yeah. Up until they're about five, you're kind of giving them a chance. Yeah, they were dissatisfied.

They were dissatisfied with his bucking ability. I thought it was excellent. So anyway, but the APB that went to the world. world was that if I could talk to Ken or Ken's family and we could understand why the horse was named Ken's reward that I would give him a genuine plot tree, Ozark Coonskin hat, and Brent would give him a case knife. We've had many generous donations to the information bank. The information bin, but nobody has yet to bring us real answers that we're looking for.

So anyway, it's still out there. We still don't know who, I mean, because clearly this horse was someone. We don't know who Ken is. We don't know who Ken is. Even though the horse is gone, Ken might be still around. Yeah, we hope so. For his sake. We hope.

We hope Ken's around. We're rooting for you, Ken. Wherever you are. I mean, one of those Coonskin hats, we know they're valued about $2,500. So Josh Spillmaker made those for me. Josh takes a coon and a half to make one of those. Do you hand stitch them? I'm part of it.

Josh is a gifted craftsman. What do you call a hat maker? A furrier. The hatter. Well, a hatter is the, a hatter is the term for a someone who makes men's hats. Okay. And a milliner is someone who makes women's hats. Josh, are you interested in people buying hats from you?

Not at the moment. I have a job that, he's interested in fishing. In a few short months, he'll be interested. Yeah. Josh is a hatter. He makes felt. felt cowboy hats and different things.

But he also, he made all these Coonskin hats for me. And so... I've had a few people reach out to me on Instagram and I apologize for, you know, we've gone back and forth, but I just,

I'm... It's just not where you're at right now. Yeah, not available to do it. Maybe one day. You know there's a special sewing machine with a hooked needle just for stitching fur on material? Oh, really?

It's crazy. Hmm. Maybe Josh could get that. Josh, you killed... Josh killed a big buck this week. I think we're using that term loosely. Big or butt? I'd call it a big buck.

Or weak. But I have to say, I have a very generous friend named Brian who's let me come out and hunt on his property. I'm a little jealous of Brian. Yeah, you should be. He's a great guy. But I went out and killed a dough. I haven't hunted in about 10 years. Right.

I've dedicated my life to fishing. but I really wanted to kill a deer this year and I got a new rifle, a Weatherby rifle with a vortex scope. Shout out to Weatherby and a vortex. Yeah, don't get any better. And I really wanted to kill a deer this year. So I went out a couple weeks ago and killed a dough just to put some meat in the freezer.

And Brian said, man, you got to get back out here and kill a buck. So I went out last weekend and sat in the stand for several hours, saw a beautiful, thick, coated coyote. I was going to take a shot at, but he was just moving too fast. Saw a couple of spikes, saw a couple of does. Felt like I had a great morning. I figured my morning was over. It was getting close to 10 o'clock and outwalks this beautiful, big-bodied 9-point buck.

And it was kind of like, you know, when you're walking through a haunted house and somebody like jumps out at you. Yeah. I felt like that was my reaction when I saw this buck. It was almost like I had seen a ghost. And I just was like, ah, oh my gosh, there's a buck. And I grabbed that rifle and just drew a beat on.

All I could do is I was looking the opposite direction because I thought a buck would come from the other way. And when I turned over, he was just stepping out into this food plot. And, man, I just grabbed that rifle and drew a bead on him. And I didn't even count. points I was like it's got antlers and pulled the trigger and he just dropped like a sack of potatoes yeah and I was I felt very privileged to be able to harvest a great deer like that

great a great set of antlers but not just that but a nice big body deer that I pack in my freezer I'm actually going to process him tonight after this recording of this he looked really really I think it's probably a good three and a half year old Ozark mountain yeah for for where we live it's a big buck yeah Yeah, a big body deer. If you ever get into miniature bear greases, like not a full-blown one, but like a little one. Like an actual media product? No, like, yeah, just like a short one.

Okay, got you, gotcha. This isn't a full episode. But I'd be interested in knowing about the shift from points to scoring. Like, because when I was growing up, it was just like, I shot a 10 point. Yeah. And now everyone's like, I shot a 1-4, you know? It's just more complex math. It's just like progression of human life.

You start out like, what's a number? That's a one. That's a two. That's a three. And then it goes to like finite math. I didn't get past three. So. Yeah.

It's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. My life would be easier if it was just points. Yeah. Like if I could just be like, dad, I killed an eight point. And you'd be like, oh, really? Good, son.

Now I've got to be like, dad, I killed 105 inch eight point. again again uh well congratulations well thank you very much i'm excited to be able to hang some that's excellent that's excellent that's excellent you have it mounted did you say well i'm just going to do a euro euro yeah freedom um so let's i want to oh long hunters long hunters man what were you going to say isa oh it's step rennell and i did a uh an audio original as well what we're calling it. Audio original. Like y'all were the first people to talk.

It's kind of like an audio book, but better. It's kind of like a book, but original. Better. You ain't got to read. It is different than a book, though. It's hard to put your finger on it, but it's not a book. It's an audio original. I think it's in the making.

It didn't have a book. It had a script. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the script was, man, it is so. I really can't wait for the world to hear it. I think it's a unique audio product that is going to give information.

It's called Longhunter, 1761 to 1775. And basically there was a period of time for 14 years that was halted. It ended at the American Revolution. And it started around 1761 where the European long hunters were trespassing. into Indian and French and Spanish territory to contribute and to try to make a fortune in the deer hide trade, which they were sending deer hides back to Europe. Fascinating. I mean, like, blow your mind kind of fascinating.

And we really, we didn't just follow along the standard tropes of what you might think about longhunters. I think the team did a great job of really showing the motivations of these guys. guys and how destitute many of them were. I mean, these guys were essentially poachers in a lot of way going in places they shouldn't be. And it wasn't because they were pumped about, they weren't sport hunting. They were just like trying to survive.

Trying to make a little bit. Yeah. And they were that destitute. So it's, it's, it, you can pre-order it now. Um, at, I've got a link. You can just look it up in the description. Yeah. But, but, but it comes out on January the 9th.

and two thoughts one serious uh when i hear you and uh steve advertising this on the podcast the i don't know why but i've just got did you ever listen to roy d mercer oh yeah all i can hear is how long a hunter are you and so i feel like this one or the funny one that's the serious no uh all i can say is i feel like it's a missed opportunity to advertise the book to not get him on already made about it. Yeah. I think he died. Well, missed opportunity.

Like I said. He could be riding Ken's reward. The serious question is, did I understand, right, that this is the first in the meat eater American history series? I feel like they said something about that. Yeah, yeah. So that's exciting. It's, if this goes well, and that's why we're like petitioning our people, you, our people,

to, it'd be great if you supported this, if you feel like it's a comment. contribution to society. You have full control over whether or not this project moves forward. It's just true. That's the way media works, especially with these big publishers. If it does well, we'll do more. And we have plans like running plans to do some more that are really cool topics that I'm very interested in. So, yeah, long hunters, man.

It's going to be good. And what I take away from it is it's the foundations of American deer hunting, which White Whitetail deer hunting is the most popular big game hunt. hunt in general, not just big game. The most popular hunting in America is white-tailed deer hunting. There's more white-tail deer hunters. Most of us grew up white-tail deer hunting. And this is the foundations of why we love it, really.

The cultural foundations was these guys. So that's it. On blood trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over. They just get darker. I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bag. and there was a full of blood. Oh my God, he doesn't have a head.

Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors, where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. Indications were he should be right there, but he wasn't. This season, we're going deeper, from cold case files to whispered suspicions,

from remote mountains to frozen backwoods. Each story begins in the wilderness, and ends in darkness. Because out here, there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments and the people left behind trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest. Somebody somewhere knows something. I'm Jordan Sillers.

Season 2 of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, Iheart, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Dad, I was going to ask you a question. go right ahead brother well I guess I need to ask Misty a question first Misty was not you were not on the last render

but you listened to the plot genesis story so that's that was this is a two part series that's all it's gonna be there could be a lot more and there might be more in the future but the first plot

episode was about the plot Genesis story what did you think well so I actually talked to Clay about this after y'all had already done the render but I had not had a chance to listen to the to the whole podcast yet and as we were talking to it one of the things that clay said is there was this controversy you know about how the plots did they come over on the ship because they weren't listed on the cargo manifest or you know did they get dogs here and and as he was telling me he said one of two

things could happen and he tells me one you know they could have you know been on the ship and not been on the manifest or two. And I was like, wait, there's a third because I thought he was going to say, or two, the dogs were on the manifest, or were on the ship, but were hidden. Like they snuck them on there. Oh, yeah. And I told him if Tim the Squirrel Dog, if I was going from Germany or from, if I was traveling across the Atlantic.

Yeah. And they told me I couldn't bring my squirrel dog. Yeah. Tim would be on that ship. Yeah. Misty came in from listening to that. And she was like, she was like, those dogs were on that ship. They just didn't tell anybody.

I'm imagining, I'm now imagining five plots in a trench coat. You've met by and son's George. Look at like the little rascal's going to get a bike loan. Do you hear dogs bark? And she's like, no, that's me. I'm sorry. We have plot hounds and we have, you know, the squirrel dogs. And the squirrel dogs, Tim, he knows when to be quiet.

Yeah. The plot hounds are not as gifted at that. Jedi are retired, our retired plot hound, he loves the sound of his own voice. What exactly did he retire from? That's what I was wondering. Well, it's a very short career. It's a very, actually a very accurate term for him. I can explain more.

Yeah. Yeah, so. Jed loves the sound of his own voice. Jed would have had a hard time being smuggled over the Atlantic. He would have been. Yeah, that's the only. The only, that's the only flaw in my logic is Jedi at night in particular loves to just make melodic pals that are disconnected from anything happening. Just, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, Jedi's retired because his business partner is dead. Yeah. And it turned out he wasn't a great hunter. Yeah. Just a great companion. He was, he was Fern's hype girl. Yeah. Banjo player.

Exactly. Basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was J.B. preferred. Yeah, exactly. No, I just, I wanted to hear, I wanted to hear what you thought about that. You know, I didn't, we didn't do this last time, but I want to do it. There's a lot of plot people that'll be listening to this. I want to go around the room and tell me if you think the dogs were on the ship. Let me just like, simple answer. Were they on the ship or did, did George plot develop the

plot-hound strain from dogs that were here because that's the question did they come from germany or and were their dogs on that ship and you'd have to go back to listen to i mean we talked for an hour extensively about this idea and really the episode was about oral tradition versus written records and i have a strong stance on it it's like the written records of the 1750s wait are you going to tip your hand before we all no no i'm just going to paint the picture written records from the 1750s that we have today undoubtedly would be a dim record of reality that's just a pill that everybody's going to have to swallow

point number two there are no records written records that we can put our hands on today of dogs coming from Germany so it's like it's just that simple but dad Gary Newcomb what do you think were those dogs on that ship

You know, I went into some detail, which obviously no one listens to the old man. That's not true. Absolutely, they were on that ship. Yeah. And the reason I say that, and I went into detail saying that this was not... You're the only one, so give it. It was not an illiterate family. These people were intelligent people.

Could communicate very well. Yeah. And they told the story and passed it down. And if you just, I've forgotten some of their name. but, you know, George. George, Henry. Yeah, George, Henry. Henry lived in the house in 1803,

and then you get up to Vaughn in the 60s. It wasn't that big of a deal for George to tell Henry, and Henry tell Monty, or, you know, it just, it wasn't that big of a deal. And there was no reason to lie about it. You're not bragging about bringing dogs over. you just go, well, Uncle George brought those dogs over on the ship. I go with that absolutely unequivocally.

Okay. They were on the ship. Okay. Believer. We got one believer, Josh. My great-grandfather, John Leonardo, immigrated from Greece in 1915, came through Ellis Island. I have been to Ellis Island and I have searched the records on the ship for the ships manifest

and cannot find his name. I know he immigrated from Greece. I know he came over on a ship. I'm 100%. They brought the dogs over. I have to believe they brought the dogs over. There's two. My grandfather told me stories of him coming over here

and him being sent to Detroit. I would like to commend the Land Bridge for a compelling, concise, definitive answer. That was good, Josh. They brought the dogs over. They might not be on the manifest. Big deal. When was this?

I mean, in the 1750s. 1750 something. 250 years ago. Okay. Okay. I like it. I like it. We got two believers of six, Misty.

100% they're on the ship. You're like, they smuggled those dogs over. Well, even if they didn't smuggle them over, I think that it would, you know, these were people coming from from Europe to the U.S. And I just think that maybe they valued the dogs, if they're saying they value the dogs. They valued the dogs, but maybe the people on the ship didn't value the dogs and have to write it down. I mean, I think there's tons of reasons why they wouldn't be on a manifest. Yeah.

And, I mean, like, they probably also didn't say if they had mirrors or hairbrushes or things like that. I mean, whoever's on the ship is going to assign value to what gets recorded. Mirrors and hairbrushes. They could have been cry. Yohanna's plot brought two hairbrushes, one mirror. Three dogs. They could have been cryogenically frozen and put in a carry on and reanimated when they got to the States. Nobody would have ever known.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Now, Isaac, you can't be influenced by what's been said. I already have my answer. What do you think? Were they on the ship?

They were on the ship for two reasons. Okay. One, like Gary said, there's no advantage to them lying. At the time that they were passing the story along, it's not like they were like snake oil salesmen going around the country trying to sell these. And they weren't trying to start a breed. Yeah. People were buying them, but it was because they were.

great dogs. There was no story necessary for that. Number two, it's a great story and there's just absolutely no downside to believing it. It doesn't matter at all. That's a way better story. Yeah, yeah. It's just like, I am in general a fun guy, so I believe it. Yeah. I was not the daddy senior in Germany. He had a little wealth, didn't he? Well, he, the story, the oral tradition, is that he worked for a wealthy guy. He was a game keeper. He was a game guy. So he would essentially be the estate manager of somebody that had some big chunk of ground in Germany.

And that was a common position. And that guy would have been in charge of dogs and would have been in charge of hunts and the grounds. So if you couldn't bring dogs with you, the owner of all that game that they were, you know, it would have been real easy to influence. people to, hey, let the boy bring the dogs on the ship if that was a problem, which it probably was not a problem. Well, I mean, it wasn't a big deal for dogs to come over from England. I mean, they did all the time. I mean, I'm kind of shocked.

We've got four so far of six that are believers. Brent. 100% they were not on that ship. Whoa. What? No. Only if they started out with 500, maybe, five survive. But he got a brother that dies.

There's so how much food they're going to put on that ship? They got to feed them dogs. If his brother died because he was starving or whatever the issue was, then folks, they would eat them dogs before they ever got there. We didn't die because he was starving. We don't know why he died. You don't know why he died. But not everybody died.

But what I'm saying is, if you die on a ship, it's usually because of scurvy. It's got to be scurvy. Man, if he just had some kiwis. They could have made him walk the plank. Nobody knows. what I'm saying is them dogs wasn't on the ship. Okay. So from the evidence that you heard in the...

There's no evidence that they were on the ship. That's the deal. Right. So, and I just don't... I don't think it was. I mean, it wasn't like going on a cruise is now. It was not easy. Okay.

I don't mean to throw possum in the hen house, as we say. But this is coming from a staunch, long-time generational walker man. It would be to his benefit to tarnish the bad mouth the reputation, the story, the history, the legacy of the plot hound. No, now you... It would be to his advantage for people to be like, you know what? Those plot hounds don't mean anything to me. You know what? I'm getting a walker.

I'm going to join the rest of America and get a walker. I wish they all had plots. I wish everybody had them. No, I'm kidding. That is not a stance or a platform that I'm willing to... except to stand on. No. It takes nothing away from how special that story is.

There you go. Because there's two stories. There's a story they brought them over and the story that they didn't. Yeah. So, but I just believe it doesn't discount at one doesn't bring any discredit

to what that family has done and what that lineage has done. And I think, I think that's the reason that we can... I like it better. What about you, Clay? I like it better. No, I ain't through yet, Josh.

You killed a book. You ain't running the show. You made your point. Point, Brent. Move on. I like this story better having dogs from America doing it. American-made. Got gummit, patriotism.

You have an agenda. You have an agenda you're working on here. That's a USA, baby. To quote Bailey Reeves. Exactly. Exactly right. Yeah, what's your stance, Clay? Well, I find myself in a precarious situation here.

I got an email from a dear friend of mine a few days ago, renowned historian. I don't think he would mind me bringing up his name. Dr. Brooks Blevins is a hero of the Bear Grouse podcast. He is a prolific writer, academic historian based out of Springfield, Missouri, the Queen City of the Ozark. Missouri State, the Queen City. Yeah. So Brooks is, this is the way I describe Brooks. As expert as anybody could be at their field, he is the expert of the Ozarks.

I mean, like, you could take a rocket scientist from wherever and analyze their knowledge of their field. And anybody in the world, it wouldn't be, Brooks Plevens would be equivalent in his knowledge of the Ozarks. He's bona fide. He is bona fide. That is not relevant to this, but he is an academic and is a researcher. He wrote me an email, and he said, Clay, really enjoyed the Plot Hound episode. He said, I never thought I would hear Palatinate of, Palatinate of Germany mentioned. It's a region of Germany.

Yeah, I'm pronouncing it wrong. That's easy for you, say. And he said, but I've been around these narratives enough to know that when you go down the trail, some of these romantic stories usually aren't true. And he said, I don't think the dogs, he doesn't think the dogs are on the ship. Right here is where Phil needs to put in the, what's that law and order? If I had the banjo guy to be like, hit it. We should see if Myron Means is available. Man, hey, he was actually on my list, but Myron Means has too much to contribute.

It would be hard to ignore Myron. I want a banjo player I can ignore. So check this out. If you were around me for more than 24 hours. I like how we just change the subject really quickly. I quote one of three authors, Jose Ortega, you got set, the most prolific Spanish language philosopher of the 20th century. I wrote Meditations on Hunting.

Yes. Foundational. You talk about him nonstop. Nonstop. I asked Clay twice. Please. He talks about him. Please stop.

I asked Clay twice in an 18-hour period if he'd read Meditations on Hunting. It just cycles through my brain. Wendell Berry. Prolific theologian poet. Yes. Outdoor thinker. Kentucky. Inane.

Brooks Blevins. Yes. Those are the three guys we talk about. I love Brooks Blevins. Changing your side here? I'm saying. Because somebody said Brooks Blevins? I hold him in the utmost esteem.

And he is dead wrong. Oh. Just me and my fellow sophisticate. Mm-hmm. It pains me to not be on the same team as Brent Reeves. You still didn't say what you think. Well... I don't think he wants to say what he thinks.

That's fair. He's the moderator. Put his feet. I'm a... I am not on the outside of this like all y'all are. I'm on the inside. And in the family... You're worried about your party.

In the family. If you scared it's scared... In the family, we keep things in the family. Do you know that Clay will basically not sell a dog, a plot hound? Like my whole life he'll be like, man, that dog is worth so much. But we'll never get a penny for it because he only gives him a way to select people who he believes can pull the best out of the... I'm a deep first-generation plot man.

Yeah. Okay. That's how it gets started. One day they'll talk about the Newcomb Farm plot hounds. No, they won't. We talk about that. Not if the retired one is the leading character. We talk about them.

So this episode just reeks of so many bare, greasy things that I'm interested in. And it was, I told Misty, you told several people, these stories, it might seem easy. this story was hard to tell in a way because it was so it really was a personal story a family story and by easy I don't mean like gathering the content was I mean

yeah there was challenges to that at different times but just like handling someone's family story is more significant to me than like the outcome of like did it do good or or would people like it my first concern is always the people that are opening themselves up. Right.

And this is a story that's not been told. Like, nobody, regionally, Barry Charlton is known. And in the plot world, Barry Charlton is known. But, you know, there's not books about him, or he's not a folk hero on a national level. He is now. And that's what I love about a story like this. And it's so, to me, cool to know that there are stories like this that are untold. Yeah.

And, but, dad, general impressions of the Barry Tarleton story. What was your favorite part? What did you think about it? Well, I can relate to being lazy. The guy offended me, I'm telling you. When Tracy said that, I mean, come on. How it was awesome. It was just really unbelievable.

to me the way that it was woven together. And, you know, you had dogs, you had people. You had, I love the movie Walking Tall. You all remember that? The Big Stick, the guy cleaned up. You for Pusser. Yeah, he cleaned up the county in Tennessee. I just, that sounds like the same guy to me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the old movie and the song, White Lightning. Mm-hmm. Years ago, man, that was just my favorite. Robert Mitchum running moonshine and hit that electrical deal and blue, you know. So the intrigue of the outlaws, the shootouts, the boys hitting the ditch, you know, afraid they're going to get shot. I enjoyed that more than the dogs, but the dog part was really awesome, too.

I just, I thought it was first-class. Tracy did a phenomenal job. And of anybody on planet Earth, he would be as qualified as anyone to talk about this when he said, like, yeah, you're, you and me are kind of intrigued by the, by the pizzazz of, you know. Tommy gun, bailing out on the other side. I mean, I'm thinking Bonnie and Clyde, they couldn't get out of the car in time. This guy, he got out in time to, he shut down some boys with Tommy guns with a shotgun. Well, okay. And so, you know, it's fun to talk about that.

But if it was me who had been out on the street today and had been shot at and had returned fire and came home and told my wife that, like, literally could have been killed. I mean, it's a different story when it's real. And to me, that's what, and I'd never met Barry Tarleton. I know Tracy. I know Ben. I know a lot of people that were around him. I watched an extensive interview

that interview I picked five like 30 second clips of that Barry Charleston interview there's a full interview with him is you realize like Tracy said like it was a terrible thing

it wasn't he wasn't doing it for fame he wasn't doing it so they make a TV show about him it wasn't like moonshiner's you know on Channel 12 Barry Tarleton and Barry's like twirling his pistol and shooting people

He literally, his brothers were murdered and he was angry at them. I mean, and there was not a Hollywood shine on it. I mean, this is a man that came from such poverty that they were fattening possums to eat it. And he is in the midst of really the American dream of financial increase over time at a time when America was kind of blossoming. and here he is, and he's on this kind of upward trajectory from abject poverty to having a good job and having a car and being able to provide for his family. But then there's the thing that's in his community

that's killing people. And he's like, no, this is getting in the way of this life that I want for my children, from my family, and it was ugly. And I think Tracy did a good job of de-romanticizing it, you know, just saying, oh, the moonshine was terrible. You know, it really wrecked a lot of people. But that's what was so intriguing.

He was, to me, a real hero. And so many of y'all, not me, have this little hero guy and girl inside you that never really has an opportunity to come forth. Sergeant York, just an old farmer. World War I and then who's the guy in World War II Audie Murphy I mean these guys they were just they were just little little guys but when they were put under pressure

they were tremendous heroes and he was a tremendous hero I mean he went into his community and said hey I'm gonna clean this mess up yeah and he could have been killed and then he loved bear hunting I mean, to the point where he was wild-eyed. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I just thought he was an awesome, awesome guy, and I put him right up there with the heroes of our country. Yeah. Can you imagine working a shift at the milk plant with that guy? What did you do last night? Oh, I caught the radio program. What about you? Well, and he wouldn't have been braggadocious about it.

I imagine just totally deadpan. Got shot up by some Tommy guys. and I shot one of them with a shotgun. After that, I went bear hunting. I bet you one thing. Then Hazel had dinner ready. I bet nobody missed with his lunch in the iceball. On Blood Trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over.

They just get darker. I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bag. And there was a full of blood. Oh my God, he doesn't have a hit. Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors. the outdoors. Where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. Indications were he should be right there, but he wasn't. This season,

we're going deeper, from cold case files to whispered suspicions, from remote mountains to frozen backwoods. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness. Because out here, there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments and the people left behind trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest. Somebody somewhere knows something. I'm Jordan Sillers. Season two of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, I heart, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, before you go too far, I want to hear what Misty says about women. I tell you, I've got some strong thoughts about Hazel. I'm just... Yeah, me too.

Let's hear your thoughts about Hazel. Really, I think I have a hazel, to be honest, really. I think you do, too. Yeah. Well, yeah, Clay was just saying that he was, he was, I think he was a little concerned at how people might take that part of the story. And we were, I had just listened to it and we were just eating. So there's a part on the podcast where Tracy describes the routine of his grandfather,

which was so good. Like it was, I mean, I like it. I commend people for paying attention to stuff and being able to, like, could I describe the routine of Lew and Newcomb, my grandfather? I mean, no. I mean, I have some ideas of the way he lived his life. But anyway, I just, I thought it was really neat the way he just had all that laid out and described. But it certainly, and Tracy, Tracy.

He said it. He said, you might hear that story. and think that this is this poor little woman being run over by some overbearing. And, I mean, he was just like... She's the hero in the story, in my opinion. Let me tell you, my grandmother and great-grandmother were like that. And it was their schedule. Not my grandfather or my great-grandfather's schedule.

It was their schedule. They were doing that. Yeah, if you want warm food, you better be here. It reminds me of the story of the gentleman you worked with that knocked him out with them. Mr. Little over the egg, same way. Yeah. Well, tell me what you said.

Yeah, so Clay was just saying that he was concerned. I was like, man, if people hear that in any way, that kind of set up is actually, and if you, really, if you look historically at, and people could argue with this and people will, and I don't really care. But that type of marriage actually does have quite a bit of equality inside of it. They have different roles. They're not thinking about. they're not thinking about he's working a shift, he's coming home, working a job,

she's managing the homestead. What she is doing is not paid, is not compensated work, but it is tremendously valuable to the home. And if you look at Appalachian history, you see that, you hear that inside of the stories that they tell about the women who built these homesteads. Number one, they're tough. They can work pretty hard. What they're doing is actually to keep those homes running. And if you look at like hunter-gather societies, and there's imperfections and there's big issues,

like the way women have been treated for eons of generations, there's big issues. But there is inside of a high-functioning home, a level of egalitarian relationships that exist. And that's just her role. They're just surviving. That is just like she's going to take care of the home stuff. He's going to go out to the factory and work. They're going to bring, he's going to go get meat from elsewhere. It's not to say, it's not to say, it's only.

like since agriculture and society has shifted towards a more, it was in like agrarian cultures that things, certain things became more valuable than other things. What you said was that in the, and going way back, the hunter-gatherer societies, the women often had more rights or more rights than even women would today. Am I hearing you say that right? Well, I didn't say that. I said in hunter-gatherer societies, it was, there was more equality inside of the structure to the, well, I mean, they could, yeah, I wouldn't say it in the terms of rights, but there was more equality inside of the structure of the home because each played a part, and those parts were very valuable. Yeah. And so those, the relationship was actually a very

mutually beneficial. And as, as we became more agrarian, that's where that started to shift. Yeah. And one thing that I said, as I was trying to, again, I'm wanting to tell the story accurately and not wanting, because you're just getting such little snippets. I mean, we did a whole hour and four minutes on this guy, and it's like, we didn't get the whole story. Right. You know what I mean? We got parts of it.

But the opening scene of the podcast, which I loved, was me eavesdropping on a phone call between Tracy, his aunt, and Tracy's mother. And in the story of the car getting blown up, what was Barry Tarleton doing when the car got blown up. He was heating up a bottle. He was heating up a baby bottle. That stood out to me. They should take care of the morning.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's like, he was getting ready for work too. Right. He's getting ready for work. And she told him he was going to go scold the dogs because the dogs were going crazy, his bear dogs. Yeah.

And she said, don't worry about those dogs. Heat up that young and's bottle. I mean, she, you know what I mean, you kind of get these little peaks. Yeah. She wasn't some lady that got all beat up. She loved him. And they really did. And then I wanted to include the story of him talking about meeting her.

I mean, this is an 84-year-old man. They've been married for 63 years. There's a lot of outcomes of a marriage that long. If you said, how'd you meet your wife? I mean, I don't know. Barry told it passionately. Like, I just could tell he liked that story. That's what I was going to say.

A marriage is 63 years with a setup like that does not last without mutual respect. and adoration and all those things. It's not one that is built on domination. You know, this day and time, people don't believe the way I believe. But that is an important part of our society. I mean, I'm bigger and stronger than Hazel. I can go out and haul logs. I can bring money in.

Your job is really more important. You raise the kids. I mean, she's got her. her imprint on little kids every day. She's taken care of them. I mean, it's a bigger job. The job of the man back then was probably easier. If this offends you, you need to do a little research. Yeah. You need to do a little thinking because this was a beautiful relationship. She loved doing it. He needed it done for him so he could put all of his energy. Yeah, they were a team.

Into the pet milk plant. Yep. You know? And bring it quarter an hour home. Yeah. And he needed a co-pilot to drive the boonshine back. Yeah. To me, the women are the big heroes of the world, period.

Yeah. And just because they love taking care of a husband, children, there's nothing. That's noble. That's honorable. That's honorable. That's honorable. Yeah. Now, our world has changed.

It started changing in the 50s where women went to work. Now then all of a sudden, you know, we're sharing these duties. And a lot of times the women are more gifted than the men, and they can move up and bring more money home like Misty does over here. And that's what you do now. You stay home while your wife goes to work. Hazel's working and I'm out playing golf. Also, I think the system, the economic systems have changed a lot as well.

I mean, like, if you think about what was required to put food on the table at that time, I mean, if we're going to, like, grind wheat to put food on the table and have sourdough and smoke, if they're going to kill a bear that you smoke so that the kids can eat in the wintertime, that's a lot of work that you can't do that has to be done during daylight hours, because you also don't even have running water. And, I mean, they were talking about not having a toilet in the house. so that stuff has to be done. That was that you're mixing the two stories.

I'm mixing two podcasts. That's one big story. Hazel and Barry were a little further in time. Okay, okay. But still I'm just saying like you got to. It was John Plott who wouldn't go to the bathroom in the house he lived in. That's right. That's right.

Which actually is very reasonable. Yeah. Can you imagine a caveman? And it's like, caveman's in your house. He's like, hey, I need to go. Like number two. And he's like, that little room, you want me to go in the house? It's true.

Yeah. I hadn't thought of it like that till the podcast. But my point being, like it's an economic, I mean, there's a massive economic contribution that she's making to the house by having all that stuff. I think that people don't realize with convenience food, with the way that we live now, some of those things are removed. And there were societal constraints on women, sure. But I just think that in a house like that, where every, it is a team, we're not looking at who's got to do that.

I thought, I thought Tracy, it was cool. When you're talking to Tracy, there's always this little side, just side philosophies or ideas that he talked about. I mean, like him saying that she only went to town once a week and wouldn't go out without her makeup. And he said, you know, today country means you dress down. He said, back in the day, the mountain people I was around, they dressed up to go out. Like they were interested in putting on their best. and then to move it a little further along we actually talked and had this like big section

about kind of like modern economics around land and I had to condense it like way down I thought that part was super interesting because he said Barry's mom and dad would have been like dirt poor people who well let me let's move it to Barry Barry worked for 25 cents an hour at a milk plant and was able to buy a relatively sizable

farm. Yeah. By the time Tracy's father, who we didn't bring up on the podcast, but, you know, Barry's son was Tracy's father, he had to work a job in town and run a farm. Yep. By the time Tracy now, basically the farm is not producing money. You've got to have a job to even have a farm. and then his son will struggle with the wages. You either I have to inherit a farm

or with the wages that are paid to the average person. And I mean, I think this is not just East Tennessee to be much of the world. Yeah. You are not going to just work a normal job as a plumber or as a, even heck, even an insurance agent or whatever and be able to probably go buy a big farm without some kind of external help.

And anyway, what happened in Europe is happening here. And it's just the economics of a civil life. Like we came into, the settlement of America is so unique to the world. I mean, in recorded history, there has never been a big spot on a map that was just settled this quickly. And obviously, there's a lot of problems with, you know, I mean, this place was a grand, civilization of the Native American tribes. Yeah, like 10,000. Europeans got here and they were like, wilderness.

And the Native Americans were like, no, great a civilization. We've been carefully managing this place. There's all that. But the expansion of America, it's like the people that were the most destitute, like the long hunters, they were the ones going to the edge of the frontier. And all those people that were settling in East Tennessee on that rough mountain land there were poor people. People didn't want that land.

Right. And now the economics of the country has grown so much. Land is so valuable. There's so many people wanting to come here that rough land that is not valuable for agriculture is now worth a ton of money. Anyway, it's just what happened in Europe. It's happening here. My grandmother. There's nothing we can do about it.

It's not like bad or good. It's just the way it is. My grandmother told me that her grandpa, in that area where I'm from down there, He said a gallon of whiskey and an acre of land cost a dollar each. Oh, my goodness. And if her father, her grandfather, had spent all the money, he spent on whiskey on land, they would have named that county after us. We'd own it all.

So, I mean, that was, you think about that. Yeah. An acre of land, that's put timber on it, a dollar? Yeah. So every generation has our... Hey, pull your mic now. Every generation has those stories. Yeah.

And there's stuff out there today that will be told 50 years that, oh, Gary Newcomb, if he had just, if he had just done this. Paid $10,000 an acre for that land. Yeah. Well, no, that's even more simple. That's a great, that's a great point because one day we will, should the earth persist, which I'm not sure that it will, we, we, they'll talk. about us like we're talking about Barry Tarleton.

Sure. And I mean, I've got stories about dad when we first... I got to shoot Brent's car up first. You know, you could have bought 180 acres for $500 an acre in Western Arkansas and a primary... And, I mean, like $90,000. We could have had $180 acres, which today that land is worth. Who knows what? Ten times that.

I mean, and it's like, doggone it, if we'd have just bought it? I mean, yeah, there's always this economic... thing going on. And at the time, it's always expensive. Yeah. Like, at the time, that was too much money for Gary Newcomb. Now, it's like, shoot, man, 90 grand for 180 prime acres. Like, we'll figure out a way to do that.

Yeah, it doesn't necessarily in the future when they look back, it probably will be land. But it could be something totally different. You know, we all talk about being from Arkansas. We'd have bought Walmart stock, you know, Dillard stock, Cocas, Coca-Cola. You know. Pine knots.

It's going to be pine nuts. Who knows. Who knows what it is, but we're overlooking something today. Pine knots. That's a good point. Ken's reward. Yeah.

We could have bucking quarter of us. This is also interesting. Isaac, favorite part? I thought that when, was it Ben? Is that Generation 4? Ben Jones. When he was talking about the basically inheritance of his family, and his dogs, and you guys were talking about, like, how fragile that is.

Yeah. That was fascinating to me. It's like if you inherited a million dollars that was surrounded by dynamite and there was a faulty wire in there, sparking, you're just like one small incident away from losing all of it. Like, if you get your bloodline broken, like, there it goes. But, like, the whole point of having it is putting it in a dangerous situation. Yeah. That was super fascinating to me. Because you think about all of this history

that goes into this line of dogs and then to think, like, the whole point is putting them up against bears. Yeah. Just kind of blew my mind a little bit. Well, when I was standing there with Ben, and I don't know. How old is Ben?

Ben's 29. 29. I'm going to come back to Ben. I'm standing there with all his dogs in this. You remember when I, on the first episode, said that somebody, might bypass in Appalachia, a backyard or a little watered hollow is what I said.

Yeah. Where they've got the dogs tethered and can come down to get water. Dark brindled dogs going up a hollow. Man, there is nothing more... If you know when you see that, you're like, this is special. It's what Roy Clark's house looks like.

If you went to Roy Clark's house, you could send 100 Americans up his road, and it would be interesting to see what they would say, because most of them would not see the, they just wouldn't know. They would see something different to those of us on the inside. They'd be ignorant of how beautiful it is.

Well, and I'm standing out in Ben's back with Ben and Tracy's dogs. And I don't know, let's just say there's 25 dogs there. And it's like, that's all of them. And now, granted, I wanted to say this, they have close friends that run Houston Valley dogs. I mean, it takes more than, that's not enough. That's not enough. But there's not, I don't know this so I can say it without like getting in their business.

I bet there's not five guys that they're super close with that they breed back and forth. Yeah. Three or four, maybe. But there would also be some historical things that happened years ago. Like, you know, maybe 20 years ago, Barry gave somebody a dog that. they kind of still have some of that blood that's kind of disconnected. So, you know, there's some of it, but like the core of the Houston Valley strain of plots is sitting right there in front of us.

Yeah. And those dogs are getting hunted like crazy. And, yeah, it's, that is interesting. They're long, leg, small bone with short ears. Yeah. Yeah. He said a short body, longer legs, short ears, small body. Almost black, just enough.

Brendan. It's a register. Now, that was great. Our buddy, that's the same way Roy, I recorded Roy Clark describing to me the color that he liked in a bear dog. And the way Roy Clark says it is he says, Clay. I can't do my Roy Clark. I've got a great, Mr. Roy, if you hear this, you know how much I love you. I have a great Roy Clark impression.

I'm not sure I can do it right now. But he says, I like them when they're, when 20 feet. away from him you think they're jet black but when you're right up on them you can see just enough brindle to register him he basically said the same thing ben said yeah um and uh now now

i don't think i don't there's some people that don't like that i'm pretty sure i don't want to name any names there's a there's a there's a there's a sect of plot people that do not like the black ones because historically the dogs

were a little more brendle and there was some controversy over the registration of allowing buckskin plots to be registered. Buckskin plots can look like a yellow lab. I mean, you'd see Roy has one. He's got all these black dogs and there's a yellow lab sitting there. And you're like, what is that? And he's like, it's a plot? Where'd you get it?

There's no, you turn them anyway in the sun. You can't see any bruntle at all. Man, the ones that I've seen, I'm telling you, you'd put him on a, stand and flooded timber in Arkansas and expect it to be treated duck. So when he was saying that, they may kill me for that. If I die, it's because I said that. There's so many reasons for you to die these days. Well, but point being, the buckskin used to be like this deep traditional thing.

And they were special. They were special because you'd have just every five generations, you'd have one that would be. That's my question. When he said, clarify for me when he said register, is he talking about register? in UKC or is he talking about register that you can actually see? No, no, UKC. They can't be Jet Black.

If you have a dog, he's got... What about the yellow one? Well, okay. Only in the last two years have they allowed buckskin plots to be registered. Nice.

And it was a major controversy. Major controversy. So their DNA in the dogs. What happened was is there became an out, here we go again. If I died, it's because they killed me. It's like Jimmy awful.

That's dead, man. What happened was is that Brandl Bear Dogs, a prized plot hound was a Buckskin plot. And they accused some guys of breeding in red bones

to get buckskin plots. And so these breeders would be like, heck, you'd breed that dog with a red bone. And you'll get all the buckskin plots you want and be able to sell those for good money. So people were accusing people doing stuff like that.

Because you could quickly get a buckskinnish dog by putting in something red or lighter colored. Yeah. And so that's when some of the guys were like, no buckskins, but buckskins were clearly traditionally inside the breed. And I have talked to many of prominent plot breeders. And I didn't ask Tracy. Tracy probably be listening to this. I would like to know if Houston Valley has ever thrown a buckskin plot.

Well, two, the original five were supposed to be yellow dogs. Two of them? Of the original five, that were definitely on that ship. 100%. If this were a mule, what would be considered the flashy variety? Oh, the flashy is the maltese and buckskin. Now, Roy Clark. What's a maltese?

I don't want to put words in. This is all real serious stuff. This is pretty technical. I think that we're, I think we're in the weeds. Oh, dude, this is where the meat of this bone is at. Roy Clark has had a few Maltese plots. His dogs are just like almost jet black,

and they'll pump out a Maltese plot every now. What is that? A gray undercoat with black stripes. It's kind of like a catahawk. They're really neat dogs. Very hard to come by. So, Brent, yeah, okay, Ms. Newcomb thinks we're in the weeds. She's probably right.

We are. She normally is. I don't think being in the weeds is wrong. Not always. On Blood Trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over. They just get darker. I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bed and there was a full of blood.

Oh, my God, he doesn't have a hit. Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. Indications were he should be right there, but he wasn't. This season, we're going deeper, from cold case files to whispered suspicions,

from remote mountains to frozen backwoods. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness. Because out here, There are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments and the people left behind trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest. Somebody somewhere knows something. I'm Jordan Sillers. Season 2 of Blood Trails premieres April 16th.

Follow now on Apple, Iheart, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brent, just favorite part of the podcast. Oh, favorite part. You know? Talking about, God, man, it was good. I told you before we started, this may, this episode may surpass anything that we've ever done. Or you've ever done. We've ever listened to or talked about.

It's absolutely wonderful. Identified a lot with his hatred for moonshine. Because my moonshine steals were meth labs. I felt the same way. So I think that part. I really, I'm not comparing myself to him by any means. I'm just saying that I know where he was coming from on that. Yeah.

I thought an interesting nuance that they introduced was, he was like, it's basically depicted as a binary scenario where you're either a moonshiner and you're of the people or you're a revenue or you're whatever. He's like, he didn't care about the taxes. Yeah. He cared about what it was doing to his community, which is, I thought, an interesting, nuanced view. You know, I'd never.

I have heard that analogy before about that, you know, moonshine is, moonshine is today's like meth. And then here we are like glorifying moonshiner's, you know, in 50 years will they glorify the meth addicts, you know. But Brent, I, 50 years for now, I'm going to make a bear grease about you. What are you even talking about? Brent, bust in the meth. That'd be good.

I'd listen to that one. Yeah. Carry on, Brent. Carry on. That was just the start. It was just an opening comment from me. I mean, I don't want to do it. Why was it the best?

He told me that beforehand. He said, Clay, this may have been the best beggars. That may have been. I liked when he talked about the routine that he had. It reminded me so much of my grandparents. And then we said it while ago, not to add nauseam, you know, that he wouldn't. My grandpa wasn't boss of my grandmother. around.

It was if he wanted warm food, it was to be there then. And when he got up, take his bath, all that stuff, because she had stuff to do. You know, she got up before him in the morning, got him off to the farm, and then she worked there at the house, and then she went to the store that they owned, and she worked that. And then she'd come home, and then she fix up her, and he'd come in, and it was that whole, that whole scenario. My grandmother was the linchpin that held the whole family together. She was running the whole show.

And my grandfather went to his grave saying she was the boss. Hey, Hazel was the boss, I think. There ain't no doubt about it. She didn't get up and cook. She put the cereal out at night. And it's, honey, if you don't like it, go find another wife. Eat your cereal and warm that bottle up. It won't that ball up, baby.

Yeah. That's a good point. Identify with the whole, and I'm sure a lot of people do, you know, identified with that with the grandparents with that that era of so that that was I love all the dogs to me you know I'm crazy about hunting dogs but to me that the family aspect of of that and his his role in trying to do make his community better yeah I really identified with that so that was my favorite part yeah I appreciated that he was like I'm gonna get revenge I can do it a little legal way or the illegal way yeah yeah that was interesting

I was the right way. I was surprised when Tracy used that word revenge. And, I mean, he was just quoting his grandpa. He's like, that's what he said to me. Like, I can't sugarcoat this thing. He said, I want revenge. Which is just interesting. Interesting.

And I was amazed at the, you know, you might hear a story about somebody moonshining or something and when you actually go dig into it you realize there's not a whole lot there i mean you know like we have some moon a moonshine story in our family of my grandfather my mother's father who went to some type of juvenile jail before he was 18 for being involved in the transportation of illegal moonshine we talked about that yeah yeah and it's like you dig into it and that's about all there is like He apparently didn't stay doing that or at least didn't get caught, yada, yada. I had heard these stories about Barry from Tracy and others. And it's just like, yeah, Barry was a, he was a big, really involved in Bustin Moonshine.

And this story, when you dig into it, it just went deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper. And I didn't touch the surface of it. Yeah. I really didn't. That's what Tracy told me today. I communicated a little bit with him. and he said it was you know

really enjoyed it the family enjoyed it and he said we really didn't touch the surface of really who Barry Tarleton was and I believe it and even the stories

so in the interview that Bob Plott did and I got a lot of thanks to Bob Plott for just being there but then Tracy filmed it and Bob Platt did the interview with Barry Tarleton was talking to Barry Tarleton

and you You didn't hear Bob's voice on it, but I wanted to give Bob credit for just being there to interview Barry months before he died. And Barry was, it was late in his life, and, you know,

you could tell, like, his, his, his world was kind of closing in a little bit because he just wasn't that elaborate. He wasn't, he just didn't quite, but he,

he, it was unreal, the stories. I mean, like him saying, they were like, Did you bust some moonshine stills? And he was like, yeah.

One time I busted a big steel. It was a thousand gallons. And he told the whole story of how he busted it. That's a big stil. He said they went, they snuck into this moonshine still. And I just couldn't include it. It was just too long. He snuck into this moonshine steel, him and another guy, you know, two law enforcement

officers armed. And they're trying to just get in there to get their eyes on it and maybe catch the guys. And on the way in, they run in two boys. young boys, and Barry calls him over and says, don't you tell anybody you saw us here. He gave both the boys $5 each and told them, don't you tell anybody that you saw us here. Apparently they were right behind somebody's house

because he said the two boys left with the $5, and he heard him go down to their house and yell for their mama, Mama! There's two guys on the hill! And he said he could. could hear them tell their mom that they just saw the law. And he talked about like circling around the mountain and then running into the adults that were in charge of the moonshine still. And he knew them.

There were just people that he knew. It's just like, Bill. And they didn't put up a fight. Like it wasn't a shootout. It was just like, gotcha, Bill. Yep. We're going to take this still. And then.

And then, so they arrested. them without tussle. They arrest these guys. And then, but one of the guys they arrested was a young guy, like probably 20 years old, that's the impression I got, who was wanted for murder that they've been trying to catch. This kid had killed a man with a set of pliers. For 78 cents?

Like he was trying to rob him, basically. And he had 78, somehow they knew it was for 78 cents, and I don't think the kid meant to kill him. But he killed him with a pair of pliers and hauled him off way deep in the mountains down in a holla and dumped the body. And Barry got the guy in a room, an interrogation room, and it was just like, you killed that guy, didn't you? And basically the guy confessed to kill him, and he said, where's the body? And he told Barry right where the body was. Barry got in his car, drove 20 miles out into the mountains, walked down in this deep hollow and found the body.

they hauled it out. I mean, it was just one, like, story that just sparked in his mind. And then, you know, the Tommy Gun story, it's like, what you heard was all that he told. But it's like, wait a minute. Where were you? How did it resolve?

Who had a Tommy gun and was shooting your car? Any one of these stories you would have a hard time telling in an hour and four minute podcast, much less a lifetime, 84 years or 82 years of these stories, seemingly all the time. I mean, just the amount of shootouts and killing that was going on back in those times was just unbelievable. And he also, in part of the interview that I just couldn't put in there,

Barry said that the law didn't come back in the Houston Valley very often. That's why he wanted to be constable. It's because the sheriff... It's like Dodge City, man. He said the law is just too far back. They just didn't come out there. And so he had to kind of take it into his own hands. Everybody didn't have an iPhone to take pictures of videos of what was going on.

You know, he had a little free run. Hey, one thing before you quit, and we can answer this afterwards, but I was intrigued by these dogs in that they weren't fighting dogs. You know, if you just ask me, I'd go, man, give me a stinking pit bull and a great day, you know, give me some big old dogs. They're not worried about that. Apparently, it was running dogs is what they wanted. Once they got to the bear

I mean they're a little long-legged short-eared dogs not going to be whipping no bear Well Okay A pack of them could maybe Well that's the thing

Is they're not trying to overpower a bear Yeah they've got a bear A black bear is the hardest Big Game animal in North America to tree More than a mountain line, more than a coon More than a fox, more than a whatever You have to A bear dog, I have heard it said, and I'm going to say it just because it's a compelling thought,

even though someone might argue about it. They have to be the most athletic dog in the world. Yeah. Like there's not, I mean, more than any working dog, a bear dog has to have a unique set of characteristics. Got to have an incredible nose to be able to track. Got to have the nerve, as Roy Clark and the lower mountain bear hunters say, They've got to be nervy. That's a big thing is that you turn Tim loose on a black bear

and he gets swatted one time and he's like, Rose, I'll be treeing squirrels. I'll just keep treeing squirrels. 98% of dogs on planet Earth, 99.9 probably. Encounter a bear, they finally catch one and they're like, holy cow, I had no idea that you were big and hairy and mean could kill me. A bear dog's got to have the right amount of want to catch you but not get killed. Because if they just run in and grab a hole of a bear, they're going to die.

Yeah. They've got to have incredible athleticism. I mean, like they're not breeding for some big, yeah, like a dog to run in and catch a bear. He's got to be able to travel miles and miles through mountains. The other side of my question is if you went around the country and asked a different type hound man, you know, plot man, what do you describe in your dog? you know Ben said long legs small body short ears this other guys he can what's he going to say i mean you know so apparently there's a lot of he used a word like style a dog sure sure that's the way in just about in every breed you know i know my buddy ricks he likes a 45 pound

walker dog in a female to coon hunt i know boys it like don't bring it to the house unless it's going to be over 70 pounds you know just personal every breed you know you know Labs are like that. Yeah, it's like a small female a lot of times to retrieve ducks. But anyway, no one wants to be. Now what Tracy said, though, is he said, in these mountains here, serious plot men, if they never spoke to each other, didn't know each other, and you went to them, they would have pretty close to the same thing.

Okay. Because they've all got to do the same job. Yeah. Now, I will say that I hunted with a very reputable. plot breeder named Curtis Walker one time. Honestly, some of the wrong dog. Yeah, Curtis Walker, Plotman. Walker Plots.

West Virginia Plots. Some of the most impressive dogs I've hunted with, they had a dog that I guarantee you weight 100 pounds. They call them copper. A plot? Yeah. I watched, I mean, I hunted with the dog. I saw it.

And they said it was one of the best bear dogs. I mean, it's good a bear dog. as they've ever had. And he weighed, that dog was huge. It was a plot. I mean, just,

and again, going back to this idea of strains, and Ben Jones, you know, I asked Ben, I said, what do you like about plots?

And Ben said, well, Clay, I don't really like plots. I just like mine. Yeah. That was good. That was a mic drop.

Yeah, yeah, there's, there's a lot of variation, but I would say the big 100-pound copper dog is an outlier. Let me tell you what I like about,

a good plot town. to me, okay? If I were looking for a plot hand. Okay. Here's the things you'd have to have. Are you? Always. We are.

We are. Yeah, good. I like the leapers. If you go, if you go coon hunting with Jed and Fern, well, and we won't go coon with Fern anymore. God rest or soul, yeah. But Jed would, he loved when we would, you would. He's a climber. He's a climber.

He's a climber. So you'd tree a coon by a hill, and Jed would run to the top of the hill and leap from the hill to the top of the tree. And he would do it just to show off. Sometimes they're running. You want to show. Yeah. If you want to show. And it was like clear. He was like, yes, I get to leap. You could tell. He always, he loved it. He loved it. I mean, it's one the best. It's a very undesirable quality. I know. I know. So I want a dog that's a leaper. I want a dog that's a singer. Yeah. Jed has a real pretty voice. And he likes to, he likes to show it off, you know. I don't like them singing at night. But I really love just sitting out there watching Jed, just kind of look at the sky and think deep thoughts

and sing these beautiful, beautiful songs. The songs of his people. Yeah, the song of his people. So a leaper, a singer, a leaner. You can't walk up to, I mean, clearly Jed's my favorite dogs. Do you think these dogs, like if you were breeding would have any functionality outside? Could they do any work at all? So with Jed, you come out, anytime you're near Jed, he just leans on you and sticks his arm up.

He literally puts his paw on you. He puts his paw on you and just like, you always know kind of your place with Jed. real soul, really. You're loved and then he would be able to tree a coon because if he can't, Clay's going to get rid of them. You're going to stay. So those are the four things that I'd like to.

I'd like to get out of a, and Jed kind of pulled the wool over eyes for a while because he ran a good running mate. It's kind of like me and Brent. People think like I'm good at podcasting. It's only because I run around with Brent. Yeah. So Jed ran around with Fern. He looked like a good coon dog.

We lost Fern. And all of a sudden we realized, Ben, He doesn't have a nose at all. He's just got to have a great hype man. You know, one of the prettiest sights that I've seen in a while was when we stayed in your little cabin up there, and I came down one morning,

and I looked through that back door, the window, and is it Jed? Jed was sitting there like he owned the world. At the end of your barn with the doors open. He was just singing. I mean, it was just beautiful. I went from my phone. I thought, well, probably won't tell you.

going through that window, but it was really... It is pretty. I know exactly what you're talking about. He likes to sit at the barn and you could see the mountain. You know, with the barn doors open, you can look over Jed's shoulder and see the mountain. And he's just singing those songs, the songs of his people. Singing those songs, I come out in the middle of the night.

My neighbors, like, I have a few numbers that probably could hear me yell. Like, you can't see any neighbors from my house. Yeah, they're probably got some stories. Yeah, and his wife are a little more frustrated. I can sleep through the dog. I can't sleep through the dog. Yeah, you ought to just go hear that bottle. Yeah.

Quit hollering at them dogs. That's right. Man, this has been a great render. This story to me is really special. Really enjoyed telling it. It was a lot of fun. We're going to do something a little different in the next couple episodes of Bear Gris.

I'm not going to tell you. someone need a banjo? Well, it's actually going to be an hour and a half of just banjo. Yeah, I've kind of opened up a can of worms with this banjo player thing, because I've got very specific needs. And they can't be strings attached. It's not like... Only to the banjo.

Yeah, hopefully. Five strings. Yeah. That's the only five you get. Would you go four? If they played a four-string banjo. There is a four-string banjo. Okay, well...

Just strings on the banjo, that's all. You need five strings. But clearly. Not interesting. No strings attached. Have to be named J.B. Well, they can be named whatever. Okay.

But, and obviously, I would be nice to this person and stuff like that. But I like to, I used to own a business, and I like to undersell and over-deliver. You know what I mean? Yeah. Manage expectations. Guess what? This is going to be terrible. And they come in thinking it's going to be terrible.

And then they realize it's not that bad. It's mediocre and it's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a short-lived business. So if we had a banjo player, actually, it would be really great, and you'd probably have the time of your life for just an hour or so. Man, so great to see everybody. Thanks for coming up, Dad, Josh, Misty, Isaac, Brent.

So good to see everybody. Yeah, Longhunters, go ahead and pre-order it. Okay. So big. It would be, you know, there's certain things that you can lean. on your audience and just be like, please do this, just do it, just for us. Give it to someone for Christmas.

Yeah, and it's, it's, it's, for the cost of the audiobook, it is a lot of entertainment. Like, not just entertainment that's going to just like flush through your brain. Actual educational entertainment. You can be the smartest person in the room. Yeah.

Speaking of entertainment, we're going to watch, you can cut this out, Shepard Nookin play basketball. Last time I went, he scored 30. eight points. Yes, that's right. Pretty big deal. Yep, Shep's got a game tonight.

He's doing good. Excellent. Shepp had a four-street game of scoring over 30. Happy birthday, Bear John. Yeah, that too. And he's only a sophomore. Mm-hmm. All right, guys.

Thank you so much. On blood trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over. They just get darker. I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bag. And there was a full of blood. Oh, my God. doesn't have a hit.

Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors, where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. Indications were he should be right there, but he wasn't. This season, we're going deeper, from cold case files to whispered suspicions, from remote mountains to frozen backwoods. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness. Because Out here, there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments and the people left behind trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest. Somebody somewhere knows something.

I'm Jordan Sillers. Season 2 of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, IHeart, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.